Preliminary Hearing - July 8, 1994
0001
01 IN THE MUNICIPAL COURT OF LOS ANGELES JUDICIAL DISTRICT
02 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
03 HON. KATHLEEN KENNEDY-POWELL, JUDGE DEPARTMENT 105
04 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, ) NO. BA097211
04 )
05 PLAINTIFF, )
05 )
06 VS. ) VOLUME 12
06 )
07 )
07 ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
08 AKA O.J. SIMPSON, )
08 )
09 )
09 DEFENDANT. )
10 _______________________________________)
10
11
11
12 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
12
13 FRIDAY, JULY 8, 1994
13
14
14
15 APPEARANCES:
15
16 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: MARCIA CLARK
16 WILLIAM HODGMAN
17 DEPUTIES DISTRICT ATTORNEY
17
18
18
19 FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT SHAPIRO
19 GERALD UELMEN
20 PRIVATELY RETAINED COUNSEL
20
21
21
22
22
23 SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES
23
24
24
25
25
26
26 ARNELLA I. SIMS, CSR #2896
27 ROBERT GUNN, CSR #1539
27 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
28
0002
01 I N D E X
01 VOIR
02 PEOPLE'S WITNESS(ES): DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS DIRE
02
03 GREG MATHESON 3 23 36 38 12
03
04 18
04
05
05
06 IRWIN L. GOLDEN 41
06
07
07
08
08
09
09 -O0O-
10
10
11
11 EXHIBITS
12
12
13 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT(S): FOR IDENTIFICATION
13
14 24 - CHART 5
14
15 25 - DIAGRAM 55
15
16 26 - DIAGRAM 69
16
17 27 - DIAGRAM 75
17
18 28 - DIAGRAM 82
18
19 29 - DIAGRAM 86
19
20 30 - DIAGRAM 87
20
21 31 - DIAGRAM 92
21
22 32 - PHOTO 95
22
23 33 - PHOTO 95
23
24
24
25
0003
01 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
02 FRIDAY, JULY 8, 1994
03 9:05 A.M.
04 -O0O-
05
06 THE COURT: Good morning.
07 MR. UELMEN: Good morning, Your Honor.
08 MR. HODGMAN: Good morning, Your Honor.
09 MS. CLARK: Good morning, Your Honor.
10 MR. SHAPIRO: Good morning.
11 THE COURT: We're once again on the record in the
12 matter of People versus Simpson.
13 The defendant is present with counsel.
14 The people are represented.
15 Mr. Matheson, if you will re-take the stand.
16 I remind you, you remain under oath.
17
18 GREG MATHESON,
19 called as a witness by and on behalf of the People,
20 having been previously called and duly sworn, was
21 examined and testified further as follows:
22 THE COURT: Ms. Clark.
23 MS. CLARK: Thank you, Your Honor.
24
25 DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONTINUED)
26
27 BY MS. CLARK:
28 Q Good morning, Mr. Matheson.
0004
01 A Good morning.
02 Q I think where we left off yesterday, I think
03 you indicated you tested item number 49, which was the
04 blood drop from the trail left at 875 south Bundy, shown
05 in the close-up in photograph 'E', and shown in
06 perspective in photograph 'D.'
07 Do you recall saying that?
08 A That's correct.
09 Q And you tested that initially to determine if
10 it was of human origin?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And with respect to the blood samples that
13 were retrieved from the defendant and from Ronald
14 Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson, with respect to those
15 samples, did you test them also?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q What test did you perform on those?
18 A On those I performed the ABO blood typing
19 test, the group 1 enzyme electrophoresis test and the
20 PGM sub-type electrophoresis test.
21 Q And did you also subject the blood drop from
22 the trail, item number 49, to those same tests?
23 A Yes, I did.
24 Q Did you prepare a chart, sir, indicating what
25 you found?
26 A Yes.
27 MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I have a chart that I have
28 previously shown to the defense.
0005
01 Ask that it be marked as People's 24.
02 THE COURT: All right.
03 BY MS. CLARK:
04 Q Showing you People's 24, sir, do you recognize
05 what I'm showing you?
06 A Yes, I do.
07 Q What does that chart show us?
08 A Well, it's just a summary of the results of
09 the analytical tests that were performed on those items.
10 Q With respect to the ABO typing performed on
11 each of the blood samples, with respect to the blood
12 from Nicole Simpson Brown, item number 59, the ABO
13 typing result was?
14 A That I determined that she was a type A.
15 Q And as to Ronald Goldman in item number 60?
16 A In that case I determined that the results
17 indicate that he's a type O.
18 Q And as to the defendant, item number 17?
19 A That he is a type A.
20 Q And as to item number 49, the blood drop?
21 A That the tests indicate that it is of a
22 type A.
23 Q Now, what do you mean when you say
24 "indicates"?
25 A Well, during the course of ABO typing, there's
26 actually two different constituents that are present in
27 the blood that can determine what the ABO type is. One
28 of them is called antigen and the other is called an
0006
01 antibody.
02 If we only determine one of those two, we call
03 it "indicative of." If we're able to determine the
04 presence of both the antigen and the antibody, and they
05 confirm the type, then we just call it a type A or a
06 type O or a type AB or type B, depending on whatever it
07 turns out to be.
08 Q Does that mean when you say "indicative of O"
09 that it might not be O?
10 A No. It just means that I was only able to
11 either -- either only one of the tests worked or I only
12 ran one of the tests. I just was not able to confirm
13 the results of the other one.
14 Q Have you performed ABO testing before, sir?
15 A Yes, I have.
16 Q About how many times?
17 A Well, I didn't break -- there's a variety of
18 different types of ABO tests. I didn't break it down to
19 the individual ones. But in my career so far, I've run
20 ABO typing tests a little over 6500 times.
21 Q In those 6500 times, have you had the
22 experience of doing the initial run for ABO typing and
23 come up with an indication of a type as you've indicated
24 here -- like indicative of A or indicative of O -- and
25 then had an opportunity to run the second test on the
26 antibodies to confirm that result later?
27 A Yes.
28 Q In any of those cases, did it turn out that
0007
01 the initial "indicative of" type -- whether it be O, A,
02 or AB or B -- turned out to be wrong?
03 A I don't know if I would say turned out to be
04 wrong.
05 Occasionally there are discrepancies that
06 occur between the two, and we come up with what's called
07 an inconclusive result.
08 Normally you can through further testing try
09 and decide or determine whether it may not have come out
10 as clearly as you expected, but occasionally it does
11 happen where your first indication or your first test is
12 not how it's eventually reported.
13 Q And how often does that happen?
14 A I don't have a number. It happens fairly
15 rarely.
16 Q Now, in this case, after the ABO typing, did
17 you perform further typing?
18 A Yes, I did.
19 Q And what was that?
20 A Well, there was additional tests run that I
21 mentioned before. The enzyme group 1 test, which
22 includes actually three different enzymes in one
23 process. One of them is the ESD or esterase D that's
24 indicated on the chart. Another is PGM or
25 phosphoglucomutase, and the third is GLO or
26 GLYOXALASE. Those all three are run in one process.
27 Q With respect to the Nicole Simpson Brown
28 sample, item number 59, what was the ESD result?
0008
01 A A type 1.
02 Q With respect to Ronald Goldman, item
03 number 60, what was the result?
04 A Also a type 1.
05 Q And with respect to the defendant, item
06 number 17?
07 A Also was determined to be a type 1.
08 Q And with respect to item number 49, the blood
09 drop?
10 A That was also determined to be a type 1.
11 Q Thus far with respect to what -- the markers
12 that you found in item number 49, would it be a fair
13 statement that only Ronald Goldman's could be excluded
14 from having been the source of that blood drop?
15 A If our only population are the three people
16 that are being described here, yes. He's the only one
17 of those three that can currently be excluded as being
18 the source of that blood drop.
19 Q Then you performed the PGM sub-type test?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And the result with respect to Nicole Simpson
22 Brown in item number 59?
23 A I determined that she was a PGM sub-type 1+.
24 Q And Ronald Goldman, item number 60?
25 A That he was a 2+1+.
26 Q And the defendant, item number 17?
27 A Was determined to be a 2+2-.
28 Q So each of the three parties there are a
0009
01 different PGM sub-type; is that correct?
02 A Yes, that's correct.
03 Q With respect to item number 49, the drop of
04 blood on the trail at 875 south Bundy, what was the PGM
05 sub-type?
06 A The PGM sub-type on that sample was determined
07 to be a 2+2-.
08 Q Based on the three people that you see on that
09 chart, could Nicole Simpson Brown have left the blood
10 drop at 875 south Bundy marked item number 49?
11 A No. With the inclusion of the PGM sub-type
12 information, she's excluded as being a source of that
13 sample.
14 Q With respect to Ronald Goldman, based on the
15 PGM sub-type, could he have been a source of that blood
16 drop on the trail known as item number 49 at 875 south
17 Bundy?
18 A No, he could not.
19 Q With respect to the defendant, could he have
20 been the source of the blood drop that was found on the
21 trail at 875 south Bundy known as item number 49?
22 A Yes, he can be included in the group of
23 possibles.
24 Q Now, did you make some effort to determine
25 what the frequency or number of percentage of the
26 population that could have left the blood sample that
27 you typed out in item number 49 as indicative of A, ESD
28 type 1, PGM sub-type 2+2-, what percentage of the
0010
01 population could have left that blood drop?
02 A Okay. I determined that that combination of
03 those three type genetic markers exists in
04 approximately 0.43 percent of the general population.
05 MR. UELMEN: Your Honor, we'll object to the
06 admission of this evidence for lack of foundation.
07 If the prosecution is going to offer a
08 computation based on the multiplication of the frequency
09 of three different types or enzymes in the blood,
10 they're going to have to show that these are independent
11 random variables that can be multiplied, and there's
12 been no foundation here of the independence of each of
13 these calculations.
14 THE COURT: Well, there's been no foundation as to
15 how this particular number has been arrived at, so maybe
16 you ought to go into that.
17 MS. CLARK: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you.
18 BY MS. CLARK:
19 Q Tell us how you arrived at that frequency,
20 sir.
21 A Within our laboratory, since actually the
22 beginning of the serology unit, we have kept information
23 on all the whole Bloods that have been run by that unit,
24 all the genetic marker types that have been determined
25 on all the victims, suspects, witnesses, whatever blood
26 sample happened to come into the laboratory.
27 And through doing that and identifying the
28 different types, we have been able to establish
0011
01 percentages of the population that have a particular
02 type.
03 For example, in the ABO blood typing system,
04 we've determined that approximately 33, 34 percent of
05 the population is a type A, approximately 16 percent is
06 a type B, approximately 4 percent is a type AB, and
07 approximately 46 percent is a type O.
08 Q And how are those tables compiled, if you
09 know?
10 A The tables or the information is just an
11 ongoing process. I, for the last, oh, approximately
12 ten years or so, have on a annual or semiannual basis
13 added up all the types that we've determined during
14 that, you know, previous time period, added it to the
15 quantity that we had before and performed the
16 calculations.
17 Q And approximately how many times have you
18 performed such calculations, sir?
19 A Like I said, I do it approximately annually,
20 anywhere from 9 to 18 months, and I would say -- maybe 9
21 or 10 times we've brought it up to date.
22 Q And on how many occasions have people in your
23 lab testified to frequencies of types that are found in
24 evidence stains and in various persons in courts of law?
25 A Oh, I'm not sure I can give a specific number
26 on it.
27 I know that I have testified personally in
28 blood stain type cases approximately, you know, 115
0012
01 times. Out of that, frequencies are brought up in at
02 least half of those.
03 Q And in each case, was the frequency based on
04 the tables you've mentioned using the multiplication
05 system admitted in the court?
06 A Yes, it has.
07 Q Is the system of multiplying each of the
08 factors to achieve a frequency, an overall frequency, a
09 method that is accepted in the scientific community,
10 sir?
11 A Yes, it is.
12 Q And then you reported that the frequency you
13 found to be for the typing that you found in the blood
14 drop on the trail at 875 south Bundy was .43 percent?
15 A Approximately that, yes.
16 MR. UELMEN: Your Honor, if we could voir dire the
17 witness?
18 THE COURT: All right.
19
20 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
21
22 BY MR. UELMEN:
23 Q Mr. Matheson, how many PGM sub-type tests has
24 your laboratory performed?
25 A Well, I have specific figures on the number
26 that I have run. I determined that I've done
27 approximately a thousand items by the PGM sub-type
28 method.
0013
01 The only information I can supply you as far
02 as overall laboratory is since we started computerizing
03 our statistics, which was the first part of 1990, and
04 since then the laboratory as a whole has done a little
05 over 1800 items by that method.
06 Q Now, you indicated that you've done about 6500
07 ABO typing tests?
08 A Yes, that's correct.
09 Q But you've done less than a thousand PGM
10 sub-type tests?
11 A Slightly over a thousand, that's correct.
12 Q All right.
13 So you do a PGM sub-type in about one out of
14 six of the tests where you do an ABO type?
15 A That's approximately how the math works out,
16 yes.
17 Q How do you select which cases you're going to
18 do a PGM sub-type?
19 A Well, it depends an awful lot on how much
20 sample there is to begin with. One of the -- our
21 protocol has tended to be to do the ABO first, and then
22 go on to the electrophoresis system.
23 I mentioned earlier this group 1 system, which
24 includes PGM as one of the enzymes in it, that you
25 normally try to run first and determine what the PGM
26 type is. Not the sub-type.
27 And if you don't get a PGM type, then there's
28 no reason to expend further sample running the sub-type
0014
01 system on it. So many times we don't run it.
02 Q Well, would you say then that there's some
03 sort of random selection of the PGM sub-types from the
04 larger group of ABO types that you do?
05 A You mean as far as the ones that appear in our
06 frequency charts or in the ones that are run?
07 Q What I'm saying is that the individual cases
08 where you have determined to run a PGM sub-type are not
09 a random sample of the ABO type tests that you've done.
10 A I'm not totally sure what you mean by
11 random. I do know that -- I mean, we follow certain
12 criteria as to whether we run a particular test, and it
13 depends on the quality of the sample.
14 The data that appears in our frequency charts
15 is based strictly on whole blood samples, not evidence
16 stains, and we will not run a particular marker and
17 whole blood sample if we don't have something to compare
18 it to in the stain.
19 So, you know, I'm not sure if that's random or
20 not, but sometimes we run it and sometimes we don't.
21 Q And the frequency chart that you maintain for
22 PGM sub-type, that's just based on the PGM sub-type
23 tests that you have done in your laboratory?
24 A That's correct.
25 Q And you compute that by race of the subject
26 that you're testing?
27 A No, the statistics that we keep in our
28 laboratory, the general population statistics that I use
0015
01 to calculate this do not take race into account.
02 Q So you have no race specific frequency data
03 for PGM sub-type?
04 A No, that's not true. The chart that I used
05 in this case and that we use regularly on all of our
06 analyzed evidence reports does not break it down by
07 race.
08 However, we do maintain reference books in the
09 laboratory that does if it's needed.
10 Q And these reference books would refer to
11 frequency data collected in other laboratories?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q But you just used your own data?
14 A Yes. We always do.
15 Q And your data is race specific for neither the
16 ABO nor the PGM sub-type?
17 A No, we don't determine race on any of our
18 specific -- on any of our frequency determinations that
19 we have. We don't feel it's our job to determine what
20 race left the stain. We just have a stain of an
21 unknown origin. So we choose to report a general
22 population statistic.
23 Q But yet you're aware that there are dramatic
24 differences in the frequency of blood type, for example,
25 among Blacks or African Americans as compared to whites.
26 A Whether it's dramatic or not depends on the
27 particular marker.
28 I do have data here on the racial break down
0016
01 on the three genetic markers that I did run in this
02 case, in case that information was needed.
03 Q Well, are you aware, for example, that other
04 data suggests that type B is twice as frequent among the
05 black population as it is among the white population?
06 A Oh, I don't know specifically what it is.
07 I'd be happy to look it up and confirm it, but I'll
08 accept the fact that there can be major differences,
09 particularly in the ABO system. In the PGM sub-type
10 system, it doesn't vary quite as much as that.
11 Q You're not aware that there have been reports
12 in PGM sub-types of ratios as great as three to one
13 between races?
14 A Oh, it wouldn't surprise me that if in, you
15 know, specific populations it can vary by that much.
16 That's one reason why up to this point I've specifically
17 mentioned that these frequency determinations were
18 approximations.
19 Q And what you've done in order to come up with
20 this .43 percent, or 1 in 200, is simply take your
21 calculations of the frequency of each of the markers and
22 then multiply them together to come up with 1 in 200?
23 A With the .43, that's correct. And then I
24 kind of rounded up for ease of understanding to
25 approximately 1 in 200.
26 Q Well, what is the frequency of type A that you
27 used to multiply?
28 A For the data that I have there, I used
0017
01 33.7 percent.
02 Q And for the PGM sub-type 2+2-?
03 A 1.6 percent.
04 Q And you simply multiplied those together to
05 get the .43 percent?
06 A Well, also included in there is the esterase D
07 type 1, which I used 79.6 percent.
08 Q Now, you have made no effort to correlate the
09 frequency of PGM sub-type with the frequency of a
10 particular result in the ABO test, have you?
11 A Oh, you mean to see if there's any sort of
12 correlation between the two?
13 Q Exactly.
14 A No, in our laboratory we have not done that.
15 I have learned throughout my training and have been
16 advised that they are independent.
17 Q Been advised by who?
18 A I don't have any specific name or reference.
19 It's just been something that's been -- occurred during
20 the course of the last -- last, oh, 12 years of my
21 serology training. It's my understanding that they are
22 independent factors.
23 Q But none of the tenting that you have done or
24 the accumulation of data that you have done attempts to
25 correlate how frequently you would have a 2+2-, for
26 example, in an A blood sample as compares to a B blood
27 sample nor an O Blood sample nor an AB blood sample?
28 A No, within our laboratory we have never done
0018
01 those calculations.
02 MR. ULEMEN: Your Honor, we would renew our
03 objection based on People versus Collins, that the
04 multiplication of these factors is improper unless they
05 can lay a foundation to show the independent appearance
06 of each of these factors that they're multiplying.
07 THE COURT: Ms. Clark?
08 MS. CLARK: Yes, your honor. Counsel is raising
09 the possibility of linkage, and I think we may be --
10 with maybe a little bit further questioning, I can
11 establish that that is not an issue in these particular
12 markers. That's more an issue in other areas.
13 If I may?
14 THE COURT: All right.
15 MS. CLARK: Thank you.
16
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONTINUED)
18
19 BY MS. CLARK:
20 Q Are you familiar with the term, "linkage,"
21 sir?
22 A Yes, I am.
23 Q Are you familiar with any studies that discuss
24 the possibility of linkage in the systems that you have
25 tested for the purposes of your testimony today?
26 A In this particular case, dealing with these
27 factors that have been around for -- and used for many,
28 many years, I right here cannot specifically come up
0019
01 with any studies. It is just something that has
02 existed for quite a while.
03 Q In the scientific community has there been any
04 agreement concerning the existence or non-existence of
05 linkage with respect to the ABO, ESD and PGM sub-type
06 categories?
07 A My understanding is there's general agreement
08 that there is no linkage between any of these factors.
09 Q So that as of this date the scientific
10 community agrees that there is not the problem of
11 linkage that might otherwise skew the frequencies that
12 are reported in all these cases where these particular
13 markers are tested and found in blood types and in blood
14 stains for the purpose of determining frequency?
15 A That's correct. These sort of determinations
16 have been made and used in court for in excess of a
17 decade.
18 MS. CLARK: Does the court wish me to further
19 inquire?
20 THE COURT: No.
21 The objection -- the defense objection at this
22 time is overruled.
23 MS. CLARK: Thank you, Your Honor.
24 BY MS. CLARK:
25 Q Now, you indicated, sir, that you do not --
26 the table that you like to use does not consider -- does
27 not break down by race.
28 A That's correct.
0020
01 Q Is that a more conservative approach than
02 focusing first on the race of the suspect and then
03 extrapolating out from that to see what tables would be
04 fit based on --
05 MR. UELMEN: Objection to the characterization of
06 "conservative," your Honor.
07 THE COURT: Sustained as to what that means. I think
08 it is vague.
09 ms. clark: Okay.
10 Q Why don't you consider -- why don't you like
11 to consider race when you determine the frequencies and
12 choose your tables?
13 A There is actually a couple of reasons. I believe
14 I mentioned one earlier.
15 In that as a criminalist, as a scientist, I
16 receive a piece of evidence that is, say, in this
17 particular case, a bloodstain left on -- at a crime scene,
18 I have no knowledge of who potentially might have left that
19 behind. I don't want to assume that it is a caucasian or
20 it is a black or hispanic or something along that line; So
21 I prefer to use our general frequency considerations that
22 we do because it gives kind of a middle number, where all
23 the different races are considered within the population of
24 the city of Los Angeles.
25 Like I mentioned earlier, I do have statistics
26 broken down as to how it might be given a caucasian, black,
27 hispanic; but I don't prefer to use those just for the
28 reasons that I mentioned.
0021
01 Also, I feel it is important for us to have our
02 own data that we can support, where we know where the
03 information came from; and it is not always possible for us
04 to receive information as to the race of an individual
05 whose blood we are typing. And even if we did have a
06 process of receiving it, there is some question as to the
07 validity of how that is determined. Does the person drawing
08 the blood just look at them and make their own
09 determination, or what? So we Prefer to go with the
10 general characteristics.
11 Q If, for example, you were to consider "well, the
12 suspect is white; therefore, I am going to look at the
13 types for white people" concerning the frequency of each
14 marker that you are testing, does that basically begin by
15 narrowing the focus, by making the assumption that your
16 evidence stain will be from a white person?
17 A That is correct.
18 Q And in that regard, sir, might that distort the
19 frequency to make it unfairly more incriminating than you
20 otherwise might have if you did not make any assumptions
21 about the possible source of a bloodstain?
22 A Well, depending on how it happens to work out
23 for that race, it could be either more or less
24 incriminating.
25 Q But either way, it might distort your result
26 if you were to narrow the focus by making the assumption
27 the person who left the stain is the same race as the
28 suspect?
0022
01 A That's correct.
02 Q And you did not do that in this case?
03 A Not for purposes of the report or the chart.
04 Q Now, I take it, sir, then, that you found, as you
05 reported, that the types detected in the blood drop of item
06 49, left on the trail at 875 south Bundy, occurs in 43
07 percent of the population?
08 A Approximately 43. That's correct.
09 Q And who among the three that you have listed
10 in the chart marked People's 24 could possibly have been
11 the source of that stain?
12 A Of the three people that are described both in my
13 report and on the chart, only Mr. Simpson can be included
14 in that percentage of the population that could have left
15 that stain.
16 Q So Mr. Simpson alone is included in the 43
17 percent of the population that could have left the blood
18 drop on the trail at 875 south Bundy?
19 A Of the three people that are mentioned on the
20 chart, that's correct.
21 Q Then by my math, if my math is any good, we
22 may fairly say that 99.57 percent of the population is
23 excluded as a possible source of the blood drop found on
24 the trail at 875 south Bundy, marked as item No. 49?
25 A That's correct.
26 ms. clark: I have nothing further.
27 THE COURT: Mr. Uelmen.
28
0023
01 CROSS-EXAMINATION
02
03 BY mr. uelmen:
04 Q Mr. Matheson, the frequency tables that you rely
05 on, you indicate, are based on the tests that are done in
06 your own laboratory?
07 A That's correct.
08 Q And you accumulate this data over a long period
09 of time?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Now, as a police laboratory, the tests that you
12 conduct ordinarily are on people who have been arrested as
13 criminal suspects or the victims of criminal activity?
14 A That's true.
15 Q That's not a random sample that is representative
16 of the population as a whole, is it?
17 A No, it is not. It is, like you mentioned,
18 victims and suspects in the city of Los Angeles.
19 Q And, in fact, ethnic or racial minorities would
20 be substantially overrepresented in that group, wouldn't
21 they?
22 Ms. clark: Objection. Irrelevant.
23 THE COURT: Overruled.
24 THE WITNESS: Well, like I mentioned, we do not get
25 racial information on most of the -- or all of the samples
26 that we receive; but logic tells me, yes, that is probably
27 the case.
28
0024
01 By mr. uelmen:
02 Q For example, would you dispute that the
03 African-American population in California is about 7
04 percent?
05 A That's approximately what I have heard. I don't
06 have any statistics with me.
07 Q Yet for arrest statistics and arrest data, they
08 account for from 30 to 35 percent of arrests, don't they?
09 A Same thing. I would have to accept your data
10 on that, but I believe it is in that area.
11 Q all right.
12 So minorities are much more likely to appear
13 in the group of persons that you are testing for blood
14 or bodily substances than they appear in the population
15 as a whole?
16 A That's correct.
17 Q So the frequency data that you have come up
18 with may not be replicated if we were looking at the
19 frequency in the population as a whole?
20 A That's true.
21 Q Now, tell us a little bit about your
22 laboratory.
23 How many serologists do you have employed in your
24 laboratory?
25 A Well, first off, all of our professional staff
26 are criminalists. They are not necessarily hired as
27 serologists or toxicologists or narcotics chemists.
28 Within the serology unit right now, I have six
0025
01 people working.
02 Q Now, do all six of these people work in the same
03 laboratory?
04 A Same physical location, yes.
05 Q In one room?
06 A Yes.
07 Q all right.
08 And all of your tests are performed in that
09 one room?
10 A Yes, that's correct.
11 Q Does your laboratory follow the f.b.i.
12 guidelines with respect to controls for contamination?
13 A I would have to see exactly what they are. We do
14 have a number of controls regarding contamination in place.
15 Q Controls for contamination are pretty
16 important in a laboratory doing the sensitive kind of
17 testing that you do, are they not?
18 A Definitely.
19 Q And occasionally there have been problems in
20 laboratories doing this sort of testing with respect to
21 what are called blooms of contamination?
22 A I am not sure what you mean by "blooms of
23 contamination."
24 Q That is not a term you have heard before?
25 A Not in relation to the type of testing I have
26 performed here, no.
27 Q Have you heard that with respect to D.N.A.
28 testing?
0026
01 Ms. clark: Objection. Irrelevant.
02 THE COURT: Sustained.
03 BY MR. UELMEN:
04 Q Well, you do D.N.A. testing in your
05 laboratory, don't you?
06 Ms. clark: Objection. Irrelevant.
07 THE COURT: Sustained.
08 mr. uelmen: Your Honor, we would offer to show the
09 CONTAMINATION with respect to D.N.A. testing could
10 affect the accuracy of results with respect to other
11 forms of testing of blood and bodily substances as well.
12 THE COURT: Mr. Uelmen, there has been no evidence
13 presented -- in fact, the prosecutor was specifically asked
14 whether they were going to be presenting D.N.A. evidence in
15 this proceeding; and the answer was "no." And, therefore,
16 I don't think that is relevant at this time.
17 mr. uelmen: I am not proposing to offer D.N.A.
18 testing results. What I am proposing to explore is
19 whether there has been a problem of contamination in the
20 laboratory in which Mr. Matheson is employed.
21 ms. clark: Your Honor, the witness has already
22 indicated that the type of contamination Mr. Uelmen is
23 referring to does not occur in the testing he has conducted
24 in this case.
25 THE COURT: As your question relates to D.N.A.
26 contamination, the objection is sustained.
27 BY mr. uelmen:
28 Q Let me ask you, more broadly, have there been any
0027
01 problems of contamination in your laboratory.
02 Ms. clark: Objection. Irrelevant.
03 THE COURT: Overruled.
04 THE WITNESS: To my knowledge, we have not had a
05 problem with contamination within our laboratory.
06 by mr. uelmen:
07 Q Have there been documented examples of
08 contamination in your laboratory?
09 A Not to my knowledge.
10 Q And do you do a regular regimen of testing to
11 see whether you have any problems of contamination in
12 your laboratory?
13 A Well, every one of our tests has built-in
14 controls that would indicate whether or not there is
15 contamination or any other sort of quality control problem.
16 Q all right.
17 Do you regularly do proficiency testing of
18 your results?
19 A Yes, we do.
20 Q And do you have an error rate compiled for
21 your laboratory?
22 A Of the proficiency tests, both external and
23 internal, that we have performed, there have not been any
24 errors.
25 Q What kind of external testing do you have of your
26 proficiency?
27 A We subscribe to two different services. The one
28 that has been around the longest, that we have used the
0028
01 most, is a company called CTS, or corroborative testing
02 service.
03 Q And do they use blind testing?
04 A No, they do not.
05 Q So you have never utilized any blind testing
06 of your proficiency by external sources?
07 A Well, I think I need to clarify how you are
08 using the term "blind."
09 We receive the items. We know that they are
10 proficiency test samples. We do not know the results prior
11 to our completion of the test and submission to them, but
12 we do know they are proficiency test samples.
13 Q So there is no routine process whereby you test
14 samples without knowing that they are part of a proficiency
15 test?
16 A That's correct.
17 Q Now, all of the tests that you have described
18 today that you did on the three blood samples and the
19 bloodstain are exclusionary tests; is that correct?
20 A If you mean by that -- yes. We attempt to
21 exclude somebody.
22 Q None of these tests can tell you specifically
23 that a particular bloodstain was left by a particular
24 person?
25 A That's correct. There is nothing here that would
26 individualize a stain to any one particular person.
27 Q So any attempt to analogize this to fingerprints
28 or precise identification of a person would be inaccurate;
0029
01 is that correct?
02 A That's correct.
03 Q Now, the tests that you performed produce some
04 sort of product, or result, that other people can look at
05 and interpret besides yourself?
06 A In the case of the Electrophoresis test, yes. We
07 photograph the results.
08 Q You photograph the plate on which the test is
09 performed?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q And did you do that in this case?
12 A Yes, we did.
13 Q all right.
14 But there is nothing preserved with respect to
15 the abo typing?
16 A No.
17 Q So no other person could interpret the results
18 that you receive from that?
19 A Well, there is my raw data; in other words, the
20 readings that I had as I was performing the test itself.
21 Beyond that, no. All that is left is some additional
22 sample that could be tested by somebody else if need be.
23 Q OKAY.
24 Now, normally the abo testing, for example, is
25 going to be more accurate if you are testing whole blood
26 samples, is it not?
27 A I don't know if it would be more accurate.
28 Once we supply an answer, the answer, in my opinion, is
0030
01 accurate.
02 The whole blood samples tend to be easier to
03 analyze than a stain.
04 Q all right.
05 And would that also be true with respect to
06 the other tests that you performed here, the group 1 and
07 the pgm subtype?
08 A No; not necessarily. With those tests, we take
09 them, basically, the same point where we are drawing down a
10 part of the liquid sample to create a stain; and then we
11 test the stain.
12 Q Is there any relationship between the age of a
13 bloodstain and how successful these tests are?
14 A Yes, there is.
15 Q And what is that relationship?
16 A Well, as a stain gets older, the likelihood of
17 getting conclusive results becomes less and less. The
18 factors we are looking at are biological in nature and,
19 unless they are stored in the proper condition, will
20 eventually rot and be untestable.
21 Q At what point, for example, would you be unable
22 to successfully conduct a pgm subtype test?
23 A Like I said, it varies depending on the
24 conditions.
25 I have not been able to detect pgm on a stain
26 that was picked up out at a scene as short as a week
27 later. In that particular case, the stain was subjected to
28 direct sunlight on the pavement for in excess of 24 hours,
0031
01 I believe.
02 I have also, on the converse side of that,
03 successfully gotten pgm on stains that were, you know, six
04 months old but had been collected fairly quickly and then
05 stored frozen.
06 Q So the promptness with which the samples are
07 collected and how they are stored can have a significant
08 impact on these tests; is that correct?
09 A That's correct.
10 Q Now, you were not able to get conclusive results
11 with respect to item 49 on all of the tests that you
12 conducted, were you?
13 A That's correct.
14 Q all right.
15 Could you explain which of the tests you
16 conducted gave you an inconclusive result?
17 A I am going to refer to my report, a copy of my
18 report.
19 In relation to item No. 49, I got no activity for
20 the glo test, or the glo enzyme.
21 Q all right.
22 The glo was part of the group 1 test that you
23 did?
24 A Yes, that's correct.
25 Q What would account for that, that you would not
26 get any results on the glo on the group 1 test?
27 A The most likely answer is that some degradation
28 of the sample had occurred.
0032
01 The glo, or glo enzyme, degrades very rapidly;
02 and we probably get less, or fewer, conclusive results from
03 that one enzyme than from any of the others.
04 Q Does the fact that you get inconclusive
05 results on the group 1 test in any way raise doubts as to
06 the results you get on the pgm subtype test?
07 A You mean as far as -- I am assuming at this
08 point you would be talking about the pgm result that is
09 derived during the course of the group 1 testing, and
10 "inconclusive" merely means there is some question about that
11 particular reading; and if it was a straight inconclusive,
12 or no activity, then I would be concerned a little bit
13 about the result that was obtained on the subtype test. We
14 like to have a confirmation.
15 In this particular case, item No. 49 indicated
16 a 2+2-. I would expect the pgm to be a 2. They
17 correlate there.
18 Q Now, the pgm test is the same test that you rely
19 on for the glo enzyme, isn't it?
20 A Well, it is All part of the same run on the same
21 Electrophoresis plate. It is not necessarily the same
22 test. It just so happens you can develop different
23 portions of this same gel for different enzymes.
24 Q Now, you make one assumption in the test that you
25 conduct on item 49; and that is that the substance you are
26 testing emanated, or came, from one individual?
27 A I don't assume that while doing the test, no.
28 I run my analysis.
0033
01 I do assume that when I am doing the frequency
02 calculations, that's correct; But as far as the rest of the
03 testing goes, it doesn't matter whether it is a mixture or
04 not.
05 Q Are you saying you would get the same results
06 you are reporting here even if the stain that was being
07 tested was a mixture that came from two different
08 individuals?
09 A Well, this particular stain gave the results
10 that were obtained. If there is more than one
11 individual present in that, it would still give the
12 exact same results because that's what was obtained on
13 the sample.
14 If you are saying that this sample was mixed
15 with the blood of another individual that had different
16 genetic marker types than are exhibited here, then the
17 results would have reflected that.
18 Q Let me give you a hypothetical.
19 Assume that we had an assailant with type o
20 blood who was injured in the course of the commission of a
21 crime and on that assailant's hands was blood of the
22 victim, which is type a.
23 If those two bloods were mixed and the drop that
24 you are testing was some mixture of those two blood types,
25 what result would you get from your abo test?
26 A As far as the example you gave, the results
27 would be the same here. It would be indicative of a
28 type a.
0034
01 Q all right.
02 So you wouldn't know that there was a type o
03 assailant because you are assuming that this all came from
04 one person?
05 A Getting back to the other question, I am not
06 assuming it did come from one person; however, the results
07 that you obtain during the testing of a bloodstain in the
08 abo blood typing system, if it is strictly from a type a
09 person, you can have the presence of the a antigen or a
10 combination of a and h, which ultimately indicate a type
11 a.
12 A type o has this h antigen in their system; so
13 if you have a mixture of blood from an a person and o
14 person, you would also see the a and h and, ultimatley, it
15 would be indicative of a type a.
16 Q So you would get the same result?
17 A That's true.
18 Q So if the scenario I presented involved an
19 assailant with type o blood and a 2+2- pgm mixed with
20 the blood of a victim who had a type a blood and a 1+ pgm
21 subtype, would you get the same result you have here?
22 A No. Given the scenario you just described, in
23 the pgm blood type system, I would expect to see a 1+2+2-.
24 Q Is there any quantitative variation in that
25 mixture in which you would not see the 1+ pgm subtype?
26 A Sure. At some point, if the mixture of blood
27 that was the type a, pgm subtype 1+ got down low enough so
28 that the 1+ was no longer detectable, then theoretically
0035
01 that can happen.
02 Q What kind of mixture would that be? 20 to 1?
03 A I have no idea.
04 Q No idea?
05 A No.
06 Q So if there were a possibility of mixture, that
07 would substantially affect the calculation of frequency of
08 occurrence that you have presented here today, wouldn't it?
09 A If we were -- if it was required to calculate
10 a frequency, then we would also have to include in that
11 frequency the population type o individuals.
12 Q all right.
13 Well, what difference would that make if we
14 included both o and a in the abo results and then
15 multiplied it by the frequency you are using for pgm
16 subtyping?
17 A If you give me a moment, I will calculate that
18 for you.
19 Q Thank you.
20 A The way I figure it, rather than having a 43
21 percent of the population, approximately, it would work out
22 to approximately 1 percent.
23 Q all right.
24 So instead of 1 in 200, it would be 1 in 100?
25 A That's correct.
26 Q Now, when you talk about that kind of
27 frequency in a population the size of Los Angeles, for
28 example, where we have 8 million people, you are saying
0036
01 that there are something on the order of 40,000 to
02 80,000 other people whose blood would produce the
03 identical genetic markers that you have identified in
04 item 49; is that correct?
05 A Approximately. That's correct, yes.
06 mr. uelmen: Thank you.
07 Nothing further.
08 THE COURT: Miss Clark.
09 ms. clark: Yes.
10
11 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
12
13 BY ms. clark:
14 Q Mr. Matheson, is there anything in the stain
15 marked item 49 that indicates to you it is, indeed, a
16 mixture of blood from two people?
17 A Well, I would not necessarily know that. Like
18 I mentioned earlier, the results would be the same; but
19 there is nothing specific to indicate it is a mixture or
20 it is not a mixture.
21 Q If indeed item No. 49 came from two individuals,
22 then they would both have to have a pgm subtype of 2+2-
23 somewhere in there?
24 A You would have to have at least one of the
25 factors.
26 If it is approximately an equal mix, like I
27 mentioned earlier, in the example, if it was a different
28 subtype, I would expect to see that other type show up.
0037
01 So if we did, in fact, have a mixture, the
02 additional blood would have to be either a 2+2- or a 2+
03 or a 2-.
04 Q And, in fact, at least neither of the two victims
05 have that?
06 A That's correct.
07 Q And then that other person would also have to
08 be a type 1 for esd?
09 A That's correct.
10 Q And an o or an a as to the abo system?
11 A Yes, that's correct.
12 Q Are you familiar with the term known as
13 "titering"?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Would you be able to, in fact, titer the stain
16 known as item No. 49 with respect to esd or pgm subtype to
17 determine the quantities with respect to being able to
18 either rule out or limit the possibility of it being the
19 blood of two different people?
20 A I don't believe that would be appropriate testing
21 to determine something like that. I am not sure you could
22 determine something like that.
23 Q Is there any test you are aware of that could
24 eliminate completely the possibility of that being two
25 people?
26 A Not to my knowledge, no.
27 Q But there was no independent evidence that you
28 were able to find that determined that, in fact, that was
0038
01 indeed the blood of two people?
02 A That's correct.
03 ms. clark: Thank you.
04 THE COURT: Mr. Uelmen, anything further?
05 mr. uelmen: Yeah. Thank you.
06
07 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
08
09 BY mr. uelmen:
10 Q Mr. Matheson, if we had a mixture that included
11 pgm subtype 2+2- plus some other subtype, at some point,
12 in terms of the ratio of the mixture, the other subtype
13 would be masked and would not appear in your results; isn't
14 that correct?
15 A this is similar to what we were talking about
16 for -- if there was a completely foreign type besides 2+
17 or 2-?
18 Q Right.
19 A If you got to the point other blood was
20 diluted to the point it didn't show up, you would still
21 see it.
22 Q But you would still see the a result on the abo
23 test?
24 A I suppose at some point it is possible where you
25 would still see the a and not the subtype.
26 mr. uelmen: Thank you.
27 Nothing further.
28 Excuse me. One moment.
0039
01 Q Do you make some sort of calculation as to how
02 much of the sample you are consuming in the course of the
03 tests that you are running?
04 A Are you asking me can I tell you how much I
05 used?
06 Q YES.
07 A Yes, I can.
08 Referring to my analysis notes, I consumed a
09 portion of one of the swatches that was available to me
10 that was approximately 6 millimeters by 3. Approximation.
11 That left two swatches plus a portion of that one remaining
12 that I worked on.
13 Q So each of these tests that you perform
14 consumes a certain proportion of the sample that you
15 have available to test?
16 A Yes, that's correct.
17 Q OKAY.
18 mr. uelmen: I'm sorry, your Honor. One other
19 question.
20 THE COURT: All right.
21 BY mr. uelmen:
22 Q With respect to the sample of the item No. 17,
23 the blood of O.J. Simpson, did you similarly inventory how
24 much of that sample you consumed?
25 A The proportion that would be consumed would
26 have been, oh, a stain of -- well, consisting of
27 significantly less than one drop out of the vial, which,
28 when I received it, had about 2 milliliters of blood in
0040
01 it. So it would have been an insignificant quantity to the
02 amount that was present.
03 mr. uelmen: Thank you.
04 THE COURT: Miss Clark, anything further?
05 Ms. clark: No, thank you. Nothing further, your
06 Honor.
07 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Matheson. You may step
08 down.
09 Please do not discuss your testimony with
10 anyone but the attorneys.
11 mr. hodgman: And good morning, your Honor.
12 The next witness for the people will be
13 Dr. Irwin Golden.
14 THE COURT: All right.
15 Good morning. Please face the clerk and raise
16 your right hand.
17 THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony
18 you are about to give in the cause now pending before this
19 court shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but
20 the truth, so help you god?
21 THE WITNESS: I do.
22
23 Irwin L. Golden,
24 called as a witness by and on behalf of the People, was
25 examined and testified as follows:
26 THE CLERK: Please be seated.
27 State and spell your name, for the record.
28 THE WITNESS: Irwin L. Golden, I-r-w-i-n
0041
01 G-o-l-d-e-n.
02 THE COURT: You may inquire.
03 mr. hodgman: Thank you very much, your Honor.
04
05 DIRECT EXAMINATION
06
07 BY MR. HODGMAN:
08 Q Good morning, Dr. Golden.
09 A Good morning.
10 Q You are a physician licensed to practice medicine
11 in the state of California, are you not?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And, sir, you are now employed by the
14 Los Angeles county department of the coroner; is that
15 correct?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Dr. Golden, would you tell us what your job title
18 is with the L.A. County department of the coroner.
19 A I am a deputy medical examiner.
20 Q And would you describe for us, please, what your
21 duties and functions are as a deputy medical examiner.
22 A As a deputy medical examiner, I am a physician
23 specialist; and my duties are to perform autopsies on
24 decedents that come under our jurisdiction and to determine
25 the cause and manner of death.
26 Q Sir, how long have you worked as a deputy
27 medical examiner for the L.A. County department of the
28 coroner?
0042
01 A I have completed 14 years. I am in my 15th
02 year now. I started in July of 1980.
03 Q And, dr. Golden, have you received any
04 specialized education, training or experience that
05 qualifies you to hold your position as a deputy medical
06 examiner?
07 A Yes.
08 Q And please describe that for us.
09 A Well, besides being a doctor of medicine, I
10 have received four additional years of postgraduate
11 residency training in pathology and one year of
12 postgraduate residency training in forensic pathology; and I
13 am certified by the American board of pathology in
14 anatomical pathology, clinical pathology and forensic
15 pathology.
16
17
0043
01 Q Doctor, let's break those down just a little
02 bit.
03 First of all, sir, you describe yourself as a
04 physician and you have testified that you are a
05 physician; is that correct?
06 A Yes.
07 Q And where did you attend medical school, sir?
08 A I attended the University of Illinois, college
09 of medicine.
10 Q And when did you graduate, sir?
11 A 1966.
12 Q And you stated that following your graduation
13 from the University of Illinois that you've received
14 some specialized training; is that correct?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And that was four years worth; is that
17 correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And you mentioned that you are certified in
20 certain -- with regard to certain aspects of pathology;
21 is that correct?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And by certified, are you referring to board
24 certification?
25 A Yes.
26 Q Would you describe for us, please, what it
27 means to be board certified.
28 A Well, the physician specialty groups have
0044
01 their own sub-specialty boards which certify physicians
02 as competent in their field, so, for example, an
03 internist will have board certification in internal
04 medicine. A surgeon may be board certified in surgery
05 or general surgery.
06 The pathology group or sub-specialty has board
07 certification also in various branches of pathology.
08 Q And are there tests -- are there requirements
09 that enable one to become board certified, sir?
10 A Yes, yes.
11 Q And do those tests and other requirements
12 exist with regard to those certain specialties that you
13 have mentioned thus far in your testimony?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Now, amongst the certifications that you've
16 indicated, you've indicated that you have -- you were
17 certified in pathology; is that correct?
18 A Anatomical pathology, clinical pathology,
19 forensic pathology.
20 Q And would you describe the difference or
21 distinction between those three types of pathology for
22 us.
23 A Well, anatomical pathology is that branch of
24 clinical medicine that deals with the -- I guess I could
25 say deals with autopsy pathology and surgical pathology
26 as well as biopsy, exfoliative cytology.
27 In other words, there's a clinical
28 sub-specialty in some respects. It also deals with
0045
01 autopsy pathology. And clinical pathology is basically
02 laboratory medicine. Those are those doctors who
03 specialize in the use of laboratory methods for the
04 study and diagnosis of disease.
05 Q And, doctor, with regard to forensic
06 pathology?
07 A Well, forensic pathology deals in those
08 aspects of pathology that come in relationship to the
09 law; and as you know, forensic pathologists perform
10 autopsies to determine the cause and manner of death,
11 and forensic pathologists have special knowledge of
12 violent or non-natural deaths.
13 In other words, all of the -- all the causes
14 of death -- all of the causes of death that are not due
15 to natural causes, such as accident, homicide, suicide.
16 Q And, sir, it's -- as a forensic pathologist,
17 you work in your job for the L.A. Department of Coroner;
18 is that correct?
19 A Yes.
20 Q How long have you been working for the L.A.
21 department of the coroner?
22 A Since 1980. July of 1980.
23 Q And, sir, I have to assume, since you've been
24 working since July of 1980 for the department of the
25 coroner, in that course of time you've had the
26 opportunity and occasion to perform a number of
27 autopsies; is that correct?
28 A Yes.
0046
01 Q Would you give us an estimate of approximately
02 how many autopsies you've performed since starting work
03 for the L.A. County department of the coroner.
04 A I would say approximately -- well, it's more
05 than 5,000. Somewhere in the mid 5,000 autopsies.
06 Q And Dr. Golden, in the course of your duties
07 as a deputy medical examiner here in the County of
08 Los Angeles, have you had occasion to testify in court
09 and to render opinions as to cause of death as well as
10 manner of death?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And approximately how many times have you so
13 testified?
14 A Well, using an estimate that I testify three
15 or four times a month, and let's say rounding that out
16 to approximately 50 times a year, so in 14 years I would
17 say close to 700 times. Somewhere, 650 to 700 times.
18 Q Dr. Golden, I would like to direct your
19 attention to the date of June the 14th, 1994.
20 Were you working in your capacity as a deputy
21 medical examiner on that date?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And were you at work in the early morning
24 hours of that date?
25 A Yes.
26 Q On the date of June the 14th, 1994, did you
27 perform an autopsy upon the body of an individual
28 identified to you as Nicole Brown Simpson?
0047
01 A Yes.
02 Q And, sir, was a particular L.A. County coroner
03 case number assigned to that case?
04 A Yes.
05 Q And what number was assigned to that
06 particular case?
07 A It was assigned case 94-05136.
08 Q Now Dr. Golden, later in the morning of June
09 the 14th, 1994, did you perform an autopsy upon the body
10 of an individual identified to you as Ronald Goldman?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And Dr. Golden, was a coroner case number
13 assigned to that particular case?
14 A Yes.
15 Q What was that number, please?
16 A 94-05135.
17 Q Dr. Golden, in connection with each of those
18 autopsies that you performed that morning, was an
19 autopsy report prepared?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And typically, what is included in an autopsy
22 report?
23 A Well, the autopsy report includes my protocol
24 transcription, which the protocol describes my autopsy
25 findings.
26 Q And --
27 A And that's what I personally have prepared
28 through dictation and transcription.
0048
01 And it also includes a number of diagrams
02 which I have personally prepared.
03 That -- that -- that is what I have personally
04 prepared, plus a -- if you want to be precise about
05 this, there's also a form medical report, "Forensic
06 Science Center," where I list -- I list the cause and
07 manner of death. That is used by the certification
08 desk to prepare the death certificate. So these are
09 all prepared by me.
10 The actual report contains additional pages
11 that are not prepared by me, but they are included in
12 the autopsy report.
13 Q They are part of the autopsy report package,
14 are they not?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And Dr. Golden, you've stated that you
17 dictated notes and prepared diagrams with regard to your
18 protocol; is that correct?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And does that mean, sir, at the time you're
21 performing the autopsy you are making notes of your
22 findings, and that at some point contemporaneous with
23 that you are dictating your findings; is that correct?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And is it at some time subsequent to that,
26 that you prepare what is known as an autopsy report?
27 A Yes.
28 Q At first, is that report prepared in rough,
0049
01 then reviewed by yourself, and then published in a final
02 form?
03 A Yes.
04 Q Now, with regard to the autopsy performed on
05 Nicole Brown Simpson, when was that report prepared?
06 A The final copy was signed on June 16th,
07 1994. If that's what you meant by your question.
08 Q And the preparation of that report had taken
09 place, I would have to assume, between the dates of June
10 the 14th and June the 16th, then; is that correct?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And with regard to the autopsy report
13 pertaining to Ronald Goldman, sir, when was that report
14 prepared and issued?
15 A Well, between the 14th and the -- and the --
16 and the -- actually, I signed the report on Mr. Goldman
17 on June 17th, 1994.
18 Q Okay. Thank you, sir.
19 And Dr. Golden, it's a fact, is it not, that
20 during the course of the autopsy, you direct that
21 photographs be taken as well; is that correct?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And in the course of preparing an autopsy
24 report, often it is good to look at those photographs in
25 order to assist you in your findings and observations
26 and conclusions; is that correct?
27 A Yes.
28 Q And in these two instances, were photographs
0050
01 taken of each autopsy while the autopsy was being
02 performed?
03 A Yes, they were.
04 Q Now, you testified before the Los Angeles
05 County Grand Jury on the date of June the 20th, 1994,
06 did you not?
07 A Yes.
08 Q And after you testified before the Grand Jury,
09 did your department issue some additional reports with
10 regard to the autopsies performed on Nicole Brown
11 Simpson and Ronald Goldman?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Are those reports characterized as addendums?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Was there an addendum that was prepared with
16 regard to Nicole Brown Simpson's autopsy report?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And when was that report issued, sir?
19 A It was issued July 1st, 1994.
20 Q And it is true, is it not, Dr. Golden, that an
21 addendum to the Ronald Goldman autopsy report was issued
22 on that same date?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Now, with regard to the addendums, Dr. Golden,
25 why were those addendums prepared?
26 A Okay. I'll go through each case number.
27 On Nicole Brown Simpson, addendum report was
28 prepared for the following reasons:
0051
01 One, there were corrections of typographical
02 errors.
03 Two, upon review of the photographs I made
04 amendments, additions to the original report.
05 And pertaining only to Nicole Brown Simpson, I
06 made an addendum opinion after review of stored tissue,
07 and that --
08 Q And you had not had an opportunity to review
09 that stored tissue prior to the issuance of the autopsy
10 report; is that correct?
11 A That is correct.
12 Q Now, sir, there were some additional
13 corrections of typos, amendments to the autopsy report
14 of -- on Ronald Goldman; is that correct?
15 A Yes, that's correct.
16 Q And sir, before you issued the autopsy
17 reports -- or caused to be issued the autopsy reports
18 with regard to each victim in this case, had you had an
19 opportunity to review the photographs which were taken
20 during each of the autopsies?
21 A No.
22 Q Subsequent to the issuance of those reports,
23 did you have an opportunity to make a detailed review of
24 those photographs?
25 A Yes.
26 Q And was it subsequent to the review of those
27 photographs, a detailed review, that these addendums
28 were issued?
0052
01 A Yes.
02 Q With regard to the addendum, does any of the
03 basic data or findings of -- that were included in your
04 original autopsy reports, does any of that change?
05 A The changes were made to make the report more
06 precise and detailed. The basic findings -- and that
07 includes findings as to the cause of death -- were not
08 changed. There were no changes about -- pertaining to
09 the internal examination.
10 Basic measurements taken when I did the
11 examination, including measurements on the stab wounds,
12 were not changed.
13 All of the basic measurements, particularly
14 ones that would pertain to cause of death or weapon
15 identification, were not changed.
16 I changed some of the descriptions based on
17 the photographs to provide a more precise and detailed
18 description for this report.
19 Q Now, doctor, let's relate back to the morning,
20 June the 14th, 1994.
21 You commenced the autopsy procedure on the
22 body of Nicole Brown Simpson at about 7:30 in the
23 morning; is that correct?
24 A Yes. Yes, I did.
25 Q And as part of your autopsy procedure or
26 protocol, did you perform an external examination of
27 Nicole's body?
28 A Yes.
0053
01 Q When you first saw the body, sir, was the body
02 clothed?
03 A Yes.
04 Q Would you describe for us what -- how you
05 recall the body being clothed?
06 A Well, the decedent was wearing a short black
07 dress that was blood stained, and a pair of black
08 panties. That's what she was wearing.
09 Q What was the condition of the dress?
10 A It appeared to be blood stained.
11 Q Was it still damp or dried blood?
12 A Well, it appeared to be partially -- it
13 appeared to be partially damp.
14 Q And as part of your autopsy procedure, sir,
15 did you cause the clothing to be removed?
16 A The clothing was removed for photography
17 purposes, and also the clothing had to be dried and
18 preserved as evidence.
19 Q And did you direct that that be done with
20 regard to Nicole Brown Simpson's clothing?
21 A Yes.
22 Q After the clothing was removed, Dr. Golden,
23 did you determine the length of Nicole Brown Simpson's
24 body?
25 A Yes.
26 Q And what was that, sir?
27 A Body length was 65 inches, or five feet five
28 inches. Body weight was 129 pounds.
0054
01 Q And, Dr. Golden, did you determine the weight
02 of Nicole Brown Simpson's body.
03 A Yes, 129 pounds.
04 Q After determining the length and weight of
05 Nicole's body, did you observe any evidence of injury to
06 the neck of Nicole Brown Simpson?
07 A Yes, I did.
08 Q Would you describe what you observed,
09 Dr. Golden.
10 A The decedent had an incised wound -- that is a
11 cutting wound -- of the neck, which extended from the
12 left side of the neck, across the larynx or voice box,
13 and then angulated upwards towards the right ear.
14 Q And Dr. Golden, did you observe a number of
15 stab wounds to the left side of Nicole Brown Simpson's
16 neck?
17 A Yes, I did.
18 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, excuse me.
19 For the sake of the record, I have no
20 objection to the doctor refreshing his memory or reading
21 from the report, but I would like the record to indicate
22 when that is being done.
23 THE COURT: All right.
24 Have you been reading, in response to the last
25 couple of questions, from your report, doctor?
26 THE WITNESS: Yes.
27 THE COURT: Okay, thank you.
28 MR. HODGMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
0055
01 BY MR. HODGMAN:
02 Q Dr. Golden, did you create a diagram which
03 reflected the approximate locations of the wounds that
04 you just indicated in your testimony?
05 A Yes.
06 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, I have here a diagram.
07 I have previously shown this to counsel. It is a
08 coroner's diagram. It reflects relative positions of
09 the wounds thus far described by Dr. Golden.
10 May this be People's 25 for identification?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 BY MR. HODGMAN:
13 Q Doctor, do you see the exhibit that has now
14 been identified as People's 25 for identification?
15 A Yes.
16 Q All right.
17 And would you indicate for us what is depicted
18 on that diagram.
19 A There's a lot depicted on the diagram, but
20 basically there's a diagram of the cutting or incised
21 wound on the neck, which is indicated here in this
22 schematic that I'm pointing to now.
23 Q And for the record, sir, you're indicating a
24 schematic of the neck and head portion of a human figure
25 in the upper left-hand corner of the diagram; is that
26 correct?
27 A Yes.
28 Q Let us focus on that particular wound for a
0056
01 few moments, if we may.
02 Doctor, you have characterized that wound as a
03 cutting or incised wound; is that correct?
04 A Yes.
05 Q Would you describe for us what a cutting or
06 incised wound is.
07 A Well, an incised wound is a injury produced by
08 a sharp object that cuts across the skin and produces an
09 injury that is longer than it is deep.
10 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, again, may the record
11 indicate that at least the first portion of that answer
12 was read from the autopsy report, or appeared to be
13 read.
14 THE COURT: The witness is shaking his head no. I
15 don't think he was reading that.
16 THE WITNESS: I wasn't reading anything.
17 MR. SHAPIRO: I'm sorry. It appeared to me at
18 this point.
19 Can the witness be instructed if he is going
20 to read or refresh his memory that he just indicate
21 that. We have no objection to that procedure.
22 THE COURT: All right.
23 Anytime you do elect to read something, if you
24 could just state it so that the record is clear.
25 BY MR. HODGMAN:
26 Q Now doctor, with regard to the cutting or
27 incised wounds that you have described thus far in your
28 testimony, would you give us the dimensions of that
0057
01 wound as noted by yourself during Nicole Brown Simpson's
02 autopsy?
03 A All right.
04 Well, I can get that from the diagram charts.
05 Basically it was a gaping wound measuring
06 5 1/2 inches in length by 2 1/2 inches in width.
07 And after alignment of the edges -- that is,
08 by moving them together and approximating the edges, the
09 right-hand side measured 4 inches and the left-hand side
10 measured 2 1/2 inches.
11 Q And sir, when you refer to "right-hand side"
12 and "left-hand side," you are relating that in accord
13 with a hypothetical midline, are you not?
14 A Yes.
15 Q The midline would be a line hypothetically
16 going down the middle of the body; is that correct?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And when you're referring to right and left
19 aspect of the midline, you are characterizing that as
20 one would observe the decedent from the front; is that
21 correct? The right side -- the left side of the body
22 and the right side of the body, in other words.
23 A All descriptions refer to the decedent, not to
24 the observer.
25 Q Very well.
26 Now, with regard to the right ear lobe and
27 right side of the midline, you've stated that this wound
28 appears to -- after going across the neck, appears to
0058
01 angulate upward toward the right ear lobe; is that
02 correct?
03 A Yes.
04 Q Now, with regard to the right side of the
05 wound path -- this would be referring to the right side
06 of this hypothetical midline -- would you give us a
07 description of your findings regarding the wound path
08 and depth of wound.
09 A Okay. Well, I will also look at my notes to
10 refresh my memory, but this wound passed through the
11 muscles on the right side of the neck and cut through
12 the membrane between the larynx and the hyoid bone.
13 Let's see. The -- see, the wound on the left
14 side and cutting across the midline is transverse or
15 horizontally.
16 In a single wound of this nature, I traced the
17 depth as it went through anatomic structures, so it
18 passed through the skin and the tissue beneath the
19 subcutaneous tissue under the jaw, then across through
20 the thyrohyoid membrane and ligament, and it went as
21 deep as -- it went through that ligament posterior, or
22 backwards, and transected the distal 1/3 of the
23 epiglottis, then through the pharynx, and passed
24 directly through to the vertebral column, which is the
25 bone of the vertebral column, specifically the third
26 cervical vertebra.
27 And then I found a wound in the body of the
28 third cervical vertebra where the actual cut went in
0059
01 for 1/4 of an inch into the bone.
02 Q So this particular wound that you've described
03 thus far was deep enough to cut through the neck and
04 actually cause a nick on the spinal column; is that
05 correct?
06 A Yes.
07 Q And that is at the third cervical vertebra; is
08 that correct?
09 A Yes.
10 Q Now along the wound path, were any vital blood
11 vessels severed?
12 A Yes. As I was saying, as the wound went up
13 or angulated towards the right ear, it became more
14 superficial and then ended in the skin below the right
15 ear lobe.
16 Now, on my dissection of the wound, the right
17 common carotid artery was severed or completely cut
18 across, transected, and there was a 1/4 inch nick or cut
19 on the right internal jugular vein. Now, that was on
20 the right side.
21 On the left side, tracing the wound from the
22 midline towards the left, the left common carotid artery
23 was transected and the internal jugular vein was almost
24 transected. There was a thin strand of tissue bridging
25 across the two cut ends.
26 Q So Dr. Golden, with regard to this particular
27 wound, we have the complete severing of both carotid
28 arteries; is that correct?
0060
01 A Yes.
02 Q And you have the near severing of one jugular
03 vein and a nick in the other jugular vein; is that
04 correct?
05 A Yes.
06 Q Now, doctor, did you form an opinion as to
07 whether or not this particular wound in and of itself
08 was a fatal wound?
09 A Yes.
10 Q And what was your opinion?
11 A This is a fatal wound.
12 Q And why, sir? Please explain.
13 A Well, both the carotid arteries and the common
14 carotid arteries and internal jugular veins were
15 transected and cut, which would lead to exsanguinating
16 hemorrhage.
17 Q And what was exsanguinating --
18 A Bleeding out.
19 Q Which ultimately would cause death, would it
20 not?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Doctor, referring to the diagram which has
23 been marked as People's 25 for identification, and the
24 figure in the lower right-hand corner, do you see that,
25 sir?
26 A 25?
27 Q It's People's 25, to the side of the witness
28 stand, sir.
0061
01 THE COURT: Mr. Hodgman, I think this is an
02 appropriate time to take a 15-minute recess.
03 MR. HODGMAN: Very well.
04
05
06
07
08 (A recess was taken at 10:30 a.m.)
09
10
11
12
0062
01 IRWIN L. GOLDEN,
02 Having been previously duly sworn, resumed the stand, was
03 examined and testified further as follows:
04
05 THE COURT: Once again on the record in the case of
06 people v. Simpson.
07 The defendant is present with counsel. The
08 people are represented. Dr. Golden is back on the
09 witness stand.
10 I remind you, sir, you are still under oath.
11 Mr. Hodgman.
12 mr. hodgman: Thank you very much, your Honor.
13
14 DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)
15
16 BY mr. hodgman:
17 Q Dr. Golden, at the break we had just made
18 reference to a figure at the right-hand side of the
19 exhibit that has been marked People's 25 for
20 identification.
21 Now, doctor, with regard to that particular
22 figure, it depicts, or makes reference to, four stab wounds
23 to the left side of the neck; is that correct?
24 A Yes.
25 Q And with regard to your diagram, those wounds
26 are numbered 1, 2, 3 and 4; is that correct?
27 A Yes.
28 Q And wound no. 2 appears to be less visible than
0063
01 the wounds that have been numbered 1, 3 and 4; is that
02 right?
03 A Yes.
04 Q Doctor, with regard to those wounds, these
05 numbers are for reference purposes only, are they not?
06 A Yes.
07 Q They do not necessarily indicate the order of the
08 wounds, do they?
09 A That's correct.
10 Q Doctor, I would like to have you briefly
11 describe the wounds depicted on the diagram starting with
12 wound no. 1, as you have so referred to it.
13 A Okay.
14 That is wound no. 1, and I am also referring to a
15 report to also help me refresh my memory.
16 They are on the left side of the neck over the
17 sternocleidomastoid muscle and extending from 3 inches
18 below the external auditory canal, and I have numbered 1.
19 And no. 2 is not that visible here, but I have --
20 I have the number and my notes about it and my measurements
21 here.
22 Then there is no. 3, left side of the neck,
23 diagonally oriented.
24 And then, left side of the neck, the fourth one,
25 lowest down, is diagonally oriented.
26 So that comprises -- that comprises the four stab
27 wounds we were referring to.
28 Q With regard to stab wound no. 1, as we are
0064
01 referring to it, that wound was approximately 5/8 inch in
02 length, was it not?
03 A Yes.
04 Q And that is reflected in your autopsy report, is
05 it not?
06 A Yes, 5/8 inch.
07 Q Would you tell us what you observed with regard
08 to the nature of the wound to the skin.
09 A I made measurements of these wounds.
10 All the measurements are made after I personally
11 inspect the wounds and approximate and realign the edges to
12 make them conform more with their -- with their appearance
13 as a stab wound because stab wounds such as these gape at
14 the center and the only way to get an estimation, or an
15 approximation, of the true length of the wound is to align
16 the edges by twisting the skin and pushing the skin into
17 alignment. so all of my measurements are made that way,
18 And then I observe the configuration.
19 This wound was a 5/8-inch wound which was
20 vertically oriented, had a blunt end anteriorly and a
21 pointed end superiorly, which means it had sort of -- it
22 had the shape of a very narrow triangle and the blunt end
23 was in the lower part and then it came to a point above.
24 Q And what was the depth of penetration for this
25 particular wound?
26 A The depth of penetration is approximate
27 because this wound no. 1 as well as no. 3 and 4 were
28 within an inch and a half of the cutting wound that was on
0065
01 the left side of the neck and these wounds shared common
02 areas of injury with the others. So the exact depth could
03 not be determined with any degree of precision.
04 Q And when you refer to "the cutting wound," you
05 are referring to the wound you described earlier in your
06 testimony and as depicted in the upper left-hand corner
07 of the diagram People's 25; is that correct?
08 A Yes. I am referring to that incised, or cutting,
09 wound of the neck.
10 Q Now, doctor, with regard to stab wound no. 2,
11 as you have indicated in your autopsy report, that was a
12 superficial splitlike incision approximately 1/8 inch in
13 length; correct?
14 A Yes.
15 Q With regard to stab wound no. 3, also located on
16 the left side of the neck, was that approximately a
17 1/2-inch-length wound?
18 A Yes; a 1/2-inch diagonally oriented wound just
19 below no. 1, on the sternocleidomastoid muscle. It had a
20 blunt end as well as a pointed end, similar to no. 1. And,
21 again, this wound, going through the skin and into the
22 tissue beneath the skin, shared a common area of injury --
23 You could say it intersected, or crossed paths or planes --
24 with the incised wound of the neck; So the depth of
25 penetration is approximate.
26 Q And you approximated it at approximately 1-1/2 to
27 2 inches; is that correct?
28 A Yes. That would be maximal. Yes.
0066
01 Q And with regard to stab wound no. 4, as indicated
02 on your diagram, sir, also located on the left side of the
03 neck?
04 A Yes.
05 That was the lowest of the group. That was 7/8
06 inch in length; Again, a blunt end or squared off end 1/32
07 inch and a pointed end at the opposite side; Again, 1-,
08 1-1/2-inch penetration into the neck.
09 Q With regard to these wounds we have
10 characterized as 1, 2, 3 and 4, were any of them
11 consistent with having been inflicted by a single-edge
12 knife?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Which one or ones?
15 A 1, 3 and 4.
16 Q And why is that, sir?
17 A Because of the configuration.
18 A single-edged knife -- or knife blade will have
19 a dull end -- correction. a single-edge blade will have a
20 sharp edge and a dull edge, and a stab wound corresponding
21 to that knife will have a blunt end and a pointed end; and
22 that's what I found on -- that's what I found on those
23 three wounds.
24 Q Thank you, sir.
25 Dr. Golden, would you define for us as well as
26 explain the distinction between antemortem and perimortem.
27 A Well --
28 Q What does "antemortem" mean?
0067
01 A Well, "antemortem" means before death; and that
02 refers to injuries that occur before death, while the
03 person is alive and there would be obviously vital
04 activity.
05 Q What do you mean by "vital activity"?
06 A Well, blood pressure, particularly blood
07 pressure in the vessels where an injury might occur.
08 That's where we are concerned with vital activity -- where
09 injuries might occur during life or after death.
10 Q What does "perimortem" mean?
11 A "Perimortem" means about the time of death --
12 shortly before, at the time of death or shortly thereafter.
13 Q Dr. Golden, with regard to stab wounds 1, 2, 3
14 and 4, as indicated on People's 25 for identification,
15 would you characterize those as antemortem wounds?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And did you observe in connection with each of
18 those wounds some sort of vital activity, as you have
19 described, which would cause you to determine they were
20 antemortem?
21 A Yes. All of these injuries had bleeding
22 either at the margins or in the tissue spaces along the
23 wound path.
24 Q Doctor --
25 a I might say, incidentally, when I describe
26 Wounds -- or forensic pathologists describe wounds, we may
27 say -- we may describe injuries and specify where injuries
28 appear to be postmortem. I mean, that is characteristic.
0068
01 If we find a wound that appears to be inflicted postmortem,
02 we would specifically state that. And, contrary to that,
03 when we see vital activity, we generally describe bleeding
04 in the wound or in the wound path or in the tissue spaces
05 along the wound to substantiate that they occurred during
06 life.
07 Q Dr. Golden, with regard to the figure in the
08 lower left-hand portion of the diagram marked as People's
09 25 for identification, does that figure indicate some sort
10 of wound or trauma to the right side of nicole brown
11 Simpson's head?
12 A If we are referring to the red marking here,
13 yes.
14 Q And what did you find during the course of your
15 autopsy that indicated such a wound or trauma?
16 A Well, I am referring to my report to refresh my
17 memory; but there was a bruise on the right side of the
18 scalp 4 inches directly above the ear canal. And, after a
19 shaving of the scalp, it was 1 by 1 inch. It was a fresh
20 bruise. It was red -- red/Violet in color. No other
21 injury was apparent -- no other injury or laceration -- and
22 this bruise, on subsequent examination, disclosed bruising
23 beneath the scalp -- correction on that -- fresh bruising
24 beneath the scalp.
25 Q Would that indicate to you this was an
26 antemortem wound?
27 A Yes. This was an antemortem wound associated
28 with a deep scalp bruise.
0069
01 Q Inflicted, consequently, while nicole brown
02 Simpson was still alive; is that correct?
03 A Yes.
04 Q And, inferentially, before she received the
05 gaping incised wound across the neck; is that correct?
06 A Yes.
07 mr. hodgman: Your Honor, I have another diagram I
08 would like to have marked. It pertains to the autopsy of
09 nicole brown Simpson. It reflects three wounds to the
10 scalp. May this be People's 26 for identification?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 BY mr. hodgman:
13 Q Dr. Golden, during the course of your autopsy on
14 the body of nicole brown Simpson, did you observe wounds or
15 trauma to the scalp of nicole?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Tell us what you observed, sir.
18 A There was a cutting wound on the back of the
19 scalp, left side, which -- and I am referring to my report,
20 particularly, the addendum report on nicole brown Simpson.
21 It was a 1-1/4-inch-length, diagonally oriented
22 cutting wound, tapered above. And this doesn't reflect it
23 as Well -- the diagram doesn't reflect the actual
24 Appearance -- as the photograph would; but it is a
25 1-1/4-inch-long cutting wound. It was longer than deep.
26 It went into the scalp approximately 3/8 inch to 1-1/2
27 inches and did no further damage to the skull.
28 Q this was not a fatal wound, I take it?
0070
01 A No.
02 Q Was it an antemortem wound, that is, one
03 inflicted before nicole brown Simpson died?
04 A Yes. This was associated with fresh scalp
05 hemorrhage, in other words, bleeding in the deep scalp
06 tissues.
07 Q Now, Dr. Golden, there were two other wounds you
08 observed with regard to nicole brown Simpson's scalp; is
09 that correct?
10 A Yes.
11 There was a cutting wound or stab wound
12 superficially right in the posterior parietal -- in other
13 words, lower down here, on the right side of the lower
14 scalp. This was a 1-1/2 inch in length superficial wound
15 only going in 3/8 inch to 1-1/2 inches -- a nonfatal
16 Wound -- and there was a small amount of hemorrhage
17 associated -- again, that occurred before death. It was an
18 antemortem injury.
19 Q Thank you, doctor.
20 For purposes of the record, you were
21 indicating a wound roughly in the center of the head,
22 midway between the ears, on People's 26 for identification?
23 A Yes.
24 Q There -- there was a third wound. Would you
25 briefly describe that wound for us and indicate whether or
26 not it was antemortem, perimortem or postmortem.
27 A That was an antemortem cutting wound 3/16 inch in
28 length, involving the skin only, with a small amount of
0071
01 deep scalp hemorrhage. It is antemortem. Again, it was a
02 superficial cutting wound of the scalp.
03 Q And you are indicating on the diagram People's 26
04 for identification a wound closest to the left ear as
05 depicted on the diagram; is that correct?
06 A Yes.
07 Q Now, doctor, during the course of your autopsy
08 as performed on nicole brown Simpson's body, did you
09 notice any injuries to her hands?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Tell us about that, sir.
12 A Referring to my notes, my autopsy notes,
13 protocol, to refresh my memory, on the index finger -- on
14 the right index finger there was a 5/8-inch-long cut of the
15 skin adjacent to the distal knuckle. It involved the skin
16 only. And it had a tangential cut, which would indicate
17 that it was shelved; it didn't go in straight. It was an
18 oblique cut, which would indicate a shelving, or
19 tangential, cut.
20 Q And what is the distal knuckle?
21 A The one closest to the fingertip.
22 Proximal (pointing), distal (pointing).
23 Proximal would be closer to the hand, and distal
24 would be closer to the fingertip.
25 Q I see.
26 Would you briefly describe the other wounds to
27 nicole brown Simpson's hands you observed.
28 A a few minor injuries.
0072
01 A punctate abrasion on the ring finger of her
02 right hand, on the -- there was a punctate abrasion at the
03 base of the right ring finger and a 1-1/2-inch superficial
04 cut on the top of the left hand.
05 Q Dr. Golden, are you familiar with the term
06 "defense wounds"?
07 A Yes.
08 Q What are defense wounds, sir?
09 A Defense wounds are injuries on the upper
10 extremities, either the arms or the hands, which would
11 occur when the victim raises the extremities to protect the
12 body or to ward off or grab the instrument or ward off, or
13 fend off, a blow by an assailant.
14 Q Sir, in your opinion were any of the wounds to
15 nicole brown Simpson's hands compatible with defense
16 wounds?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And why is that, sir?
19 A The cut -- the cut on the right index finger is
20 in a characteristic location for a defense wound -- on the
21 palm, or volar surface, of the finger -- which could
22 indicate an attempt to fend off the weapon or to grab the
23 weapon.
24 And the superficial cutting wound on the top of
25 the hand that I described could also be construed as a
26 defense wound. It is a superficial cut but could also
27 indicate a defensive motion to attempt to ward off the -- I
28 don't want to say "blow" -- to ward off the weapon that was
0073
01 inflicting the injuries.
02 Q Dr. Golden, at the conclusion of the autopsy that
03 you performed on nicole brown Simpson's body, did you form
04 an opinion as to the cause of her death?
05 A Yes.
06 Q What was your opinion, sir?
07 A She died as a result of the sharp force injuries,
08 which include -- the cutting wounds and the stab -- and the
09 stab wounds, they are grouped as sharp force injuries.
10 Q And that would include the wounds most
11 specifically depicted and characterized by your
12 testimony in People's 25 for identification; is that
13 correct?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Dr. Golden, later in the morning on June 14,
16 1994, you performed an autopsy upon the body of an
17 individual identified to you as ronald Goldman; is that
18 correct?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And prior to performing the autopsy
21 procedures, did you examine the body and determine that
22 it was clothed?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And would you describe how Mr. Goldman's body was
25 clothed when you first observed it.
26 A I will also refer to my autopsy protocol; but he
27 was wearing a long-sleeve type of shirt or sweater that was
28 extensively bloodstained at the time I examined it, and he
0074
01 was also wearing a pair of bloodstained levi jeans and two
02 canvas-type boots and two sweat socks.
03 Q Sir, with regard to the shirt, did you examine
04 it for any evidence of cuts or slits or tears?
05 A Yes, I did.
06 Q What did you find?
07 A On the front or -- lower right side, there was a
08 1-1/2-inch slitlike tear; lower right sleeve, a 1-inch
09 slitlike tear.
10 On the back, lower side of the back, there was a
11 1-1/2-inch slitlike tear.
12 Q Sir, with regard to Mr. Goldman's jeans, did
13 you find any evidence of a slit, tear or cut in that
14 item of clothes?
15 A Yes. On the jeans, on the outside of the left
16 hip region, there was a 1-1/2-inch-long slit.
17 Q And, Dr. Golden, as part of your autopsy
18 procedure, was the clothing removed from Mr. Goldman's body
19 and preserved?
20 A Yes.
21 Q After the clothing was removed, Dr. Golden, did
22 you determine the length of Mr. Goldman's body?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And what was that, sir?
25 A 69 inches, or 5 feet 9 inches.
26 Q And did you also determine the weight of
27 Mr. Goldman's body?
28 A Yes. 171 pounds.
0075
01 Q Doctor, did you observe injury to the neck
02 area of ronald Goldman?
03 A Yes.
04 Q And starting with the front of the neck, did you
05 observe any evidence of injury to the front of the neck?
06 A Yes.
07 mr. hodgman: Your Honor, I have here a diagram
08 pertaining to ronald goldman's autopsy. It reflects
09 wounds to the front of the neck as well as to the right
10 side of the face and the left side of the neck. May that
11 be People's 27 for identification?
12 THE COURT: Yes.
13 mr. hodgman: Thank you.
14 Q Dr. Golden, People's 27 for identification is
15 a diagram that you prepared in the course of the autopsy
16 you performed upon ronald Goldman's body; is that
17 correct?
18 A Yes, it is.
19 Q And during the course of that autopsy, did you
20 observe what appeared to be two parallel incised wounds
21 on the front of Mr. Goldman's neck?
22 A Yes, I did.
23 Q Would you describe those in more detail for us,
24 sir, and make reference to the diagram People's 27 for
25 identification as you do so.
26 A May I also use the autopsy report and the
27 addendum report?
28 Basically, at the -- there was a transverse
0076
01 superficial cutting wound at the level of the superior
02 border of the larynx, or voice box, 3 inches in length; and
03 it on the left side went within 1-1/2 inch of another
04 injury of the left side of the neck to be described later.
05 And it went transversely across the front of the neck to
06 the right side -- to the right anterior side of the neck.
07 Q How deep was that particular wound, Dr. Golden?
08 A It was deeper on the left, where it went down
09 through the skin and dermis To the fascia, the connective
10 tissue beneath the dermis and overlying the muscle. It
11 became more superficial on the right.
12 Q Was that a deep wound?
13 A I have already described it went down through the
14 fascia on the left and tapered to the skin on the right.
15 It was not a fatal wound.
16 Q And what is the fascia?
17 A fascia is the connective tissue, the flat sheet
18 of connective tissue, beneath -- in the tissue planes.
19 Here it would be the covering -- the superficial fascia
20 overlying the muscles of the neck.
21 Q And, doctor, this particular incised wound was
22 not fatal in and of itself; is that correct?
23 A No, it was not.
24 Q Was it inflicted antemortem, that is, before
25 fatal wounds were inflicted upon Mr. Goldman?
26 Mr. shapiro: Your Honor, again, just for the sake of
27 the record -- and I hate to bring this up -- from where I
28 am sitting, it appears the doctor, from time to time, at
0077
01 least, refreshes his memory.
02 THE COURT: I think many times he has told us.
03 It looks like you are looking at your report
04 again to answer the question.
05 THE WITNESS: Yes.
06 THE COURT: All right.
07 THE WITNESS: Yes. There was a small amount of tissue
08 hemorrhage associated with that wound.
09 by mr. hodgman:
10 Q And with regard to your indications to the
11 diagram here, you are referring to the upper leftmost
12 figure on People's 27 for identification; is that
13 correct?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Now, doctor, during the course of your
16 autopsy, did you also observe a second incised wound
17 below the larynx and parallel to the one you have just
18 described?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Describe that for us, please.
21 A That was below the first wound.
22 Referring to my notes.
23 It was horizontally oriented and parallel to the
24 first wound, 6 inches in length, starting on the left side
25 of the neck. It was superficial, involving the skin only;
26 and it went around to the right side of the neck.
27 Q Did it angulate upwards?
28 A It went from the right side of the neck and,
0078
01 although it is not shown here, it then angulated upward
02 towards another wound on the right side of the neck, to be
03 described below.
04 Q Was this wound fatal in and of itself?
05 A No. This wound was superficial; and I have
06 indicated it involves -- it involved the skin -- it
07 involves the skin only. It was a superficial cutting
08 wound.
09
10
11
12
0079
01 Q And how would you characterize this wound in
02 terms of being antemortem, perimortem or postmortem?
03 A I believe it to be antemortem, inasmuch as
04 there was a small amount of visible dermal -- "dermal"
05 meaning skin -- hemorrhage, when I first saw it.
06 Q Now, doctor, referring to the lower right-hand
07 figure on People's 27 for identification, does that
08 particular figure depict some evidence of injury to the
09 right -- excuse me -- left side of Mr. Goldman's neck
10 and head that you observed during the course of your
11 autopsy?
12 A Yes, it does.
13 Q Now, using your pointer, sir, and taking the
14 lowermost wound, would you describe what you found with
15 regard to that wound when you conducted your autopsy
16 upon Mr. Goldman's body.
17 A Well, there was a large gaping sharp force
18 injury on the left side of the neck, 3 inches in length,
19 which I am pointing to right here.
20 Q Indicating the lowermost apparent sharp force
21 wound in red on the diagram; is that correct?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Now, would you tell us something about the
24 wound path of that particular wound.
25 A Okay. Of course, I'm refreshing my memory.
26 It was on the left side of the neck, began at
27 the level of the mid larynx, cut through the
28 sternocleidomastoid muscle, and it went through the skin
0080
01 and the muscle with bleeding along the path.
02 And basically it severed the left internal
03 jugular vein. There was extensive bleeding in the
04 adjacent tissue. And I determined that to be the
05 pathway of that wound.
06 Q Did that wound transect or severe any major
07 blood vessels?
08 A Yes. As I stated, it transected the left
09 internal jugular vein.
10 Q Now, there was a second wound to the left side
11 of Mr. Goldman's head; is that correct?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Describe that for us, please, in brief.
14 A This -- the second wound was above it, behind
15 the left ear. It was a gaping wound, 2 inches in
16 length.
17 The lower borders were irregular or ragged.
18 As I mentioned, it was 2 inches in length.
19 It -- along the tissue plains it appeared to
20 be separated by the lower one by the approximate
21 distance of 4 inches, so those two wounds shared common
22 areas of -- common areas of injury.
23 Q Are you saying that the two wound paths
24 intersected with regard to those two wounds?
25 A Yes. They met.
26 They met deep in the -- along the tissue
27 plains, so basically you can say they communicated or
28 they shared common areas of injury.
0081
01 Q Taking those two wounds together, doctor, are
02 they fatal wounds? Either one or both or together?
03 Also taking into consideration that the jugular vein on
04 that side was severed.
05 A Well, one or together -- either or together,
06 it's a fatal injury because of the severing of the left
07 internal jugular vein.
08 Q And, doctor, with regard to those two wounds,
09 were they antemortem, perimortem or postmortem?
10 A As I've described, there was extensive
11 hemorrhage along the wound path and in the tissue
12 spaces.
13 Q Now doctor, I realize that there are more
14 lesser wounds that were not indicated on your diagram,
15 but I would like to move ahead now to the lower
16 left-hand figure on People's 27 for identification.
17 And, sir, you observed during the course of
18 your autopsy five wounds to the right side of
19 Mr. Goldman's face; is that correct?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And it appears that we have four of those five
22 wounds marked in red on that lower left-hand figure on
23 People's 27 for identification; is that correct?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Now would you, in brief, describe those wounds
26 for us, sir.
27 A Okay. Referring to my notes, these were
28 superficial cuts varying in orientation, involving the
0082
01 skin of the right cheek, and they varied from
02 approximately 1/2 to 1 inch in maximal length.
03 Q And these five wounds, sir, were not fatal; is
04 that correct, in and of themselves?
05 A Correction.
06 Yes. I said 1/2. It's -- okay.
07 Referring to my protocol, they were small
08 cuts. They varied from 1/4 inch in length to 5/8's of
09 an inch in length. The superficial cuts on the right
10 side of the check.
11 Q All to the right side of the cheek; is that
12 correct?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And were all of those antemortem wounds as far
15 as you could determine?
16 A Yes, they were.
17 Q Doctor, during the course of your autopsy, you
18 observed injury to the right side of Mr. Goldman's neck,
19 did you not?
20 A Yes.
21 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, I have another diagram
22 pertaining to Mr. Goldman's autopsy. It depicts wounds
23 to the right side of the neck.
24 May that be People's next in order, 28.
25 THE COURT: Yes.
26 BY MR. HODGMAN:
27 Q Now Dr. Golden, with regard to the lower
28 left-hand figure depicted on People's 28 for
0083
01 identification --
02 A Yes.
03 Q -- you observed some wounds in that area of
04 Mr. Goldman's body; is that correct?
05 A Yes, I did.
06 Q Would you describe those wounds for us,
07 please.
08 A All right.
09 And referring to the report and the addendum.
10 On the right side of the neck, 3 inches below
11 the exterioral auditory canal there was a stab
12 wound 5/8's of an inch in length, and it -- one end was
13 pointed, the other end was Y-shaped or forked.
14 And basically the wound path was through the
15 skin, subcutaneous tissue; did not strike a major artery
16 or vein; and this wound connected or shared common area
17 of injury with another wound on the right side of the
18 neck above it, which was behind -- below and behind the
19 right ear and behind the sternocleidomastoid muscle.
20 And that was a 2-inch long wound with a 1-inch long
21 superficial cut of the skin above it.
22 And as I indicate here, the wound that I've
23 just described, the deeper wound, intersected the
24 superficial cut of the front of the neck which we
25 described earlier, which went around to the right side
26 and angled upward and intersected that wound.
27 So that's why it has that peculiar
28 configuration there.
0084
01 Q Sir, when you're referring to that superficial
02 incised wound, that was to a previous diagram, what
03 appeared to be a superficial incised cut which moved
04 across, above the larynx and then intersected with this
05 wound as depicted on People's 28; is that correct?
06 A That's correct.
07 Q Now Dr. Golden, with regard to these wounds
08 that you've just described in your testimony, were these
09 wounds fatal in and of themselves?
10 A All that I've described on the right side of
11 the neck were not fatal as I've described earlier.
12 No major artery or vein was cut or incised,
13 and that includes the jugular and the common carotid --
14 and the carotid artery.
15 Q Dr. Golden, although not depicted on this
16 particular diagram, did you observe abrasions to the
17 right side of Mr. Goldman's face?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And in brief, describe what you observed with
20 regard to the pattern of abrasions that you observed.
21 A Well, these are not depicted, so I'll have to
22 refer to my notes, particularly on the addendum.
23 There are multiple abrasions or scrapes on the
24 right side of the face extending from the -- basically
25 extending from the temporal region, down to the right
26 cheek, and from the -- going as far forward as the
27 eyelid and back to the front of the ear.
28 Basically the area covered was 4 1/2 by 2 1/2
0085
01 inches. And they were linear, some diagonally
02 oriented, some vertically.
03 The area that they covered, namely the
04 abrasions, also circumscribed the area of the
05 superficial cutting wounds of the right cheek that I
06 described earlier.
07 Q Those are the five cutting wounds you've
08 testified to?
09 A Yes.
10 So it had two things visible there: The
11 multiple abrasions on the cheek, and then the
12 circumscribed area which contained the cutting wounds,
13 the superficial cutting wounds.
14 Q And sir, with reference to the diagram
15 People's 28 for identification, you're indicating an
16 area on the figure in the lower left-hand side; is that
17 correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Now with regard to those abrasions, would you
20 characterize those abrasions as antemortem, perimortem
21 or postmortem?
22 A I would not characterize them as postmortem.
23 They appeared to be perimortem based on their color,
24 coloration.
25 Q And again, perimortem meaning?
26 A At about the time of death, which could be
27 shortly before, at the time of, or shortly thereafter.
28 Q Now, doctor, during the course of your
0086
01 autopsy, you observed a number of various small incised
02 wounds to the right and left ears of Mr. Goldman; is
03 that correct?
04 A Yes.
05 Q And did you also observe injuries to the scalp
06 of Ronald Goldman?
07 A Yes.
08 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, I have another diagram
09 pertaining to Mr. Goldman's autopsy.
10 May that be People's 29 for identification?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 BY MR. HODGMAN:
13 Q Dr. Golden, with reference to People's 29 for
14 identification, does that diagram, in particular the
15 figure in the lower right-hand corner, depict the
16 approximate locations of scalp wounds you observed on
17 Mr. Goldman's head during the course of your autopsy?
18 A Yes, it does.
19 Q Were each of those wounds nonfatal?
20 A Yes, that's correct.
21 Q And did they all appear to be antemortem in
22 nature?
23 A Yes, they did.
24 Q And with regard to the dimensions of the
25 wounds -- I withdraw that.
26 Now Dr. Golden, during the course of your
27 autopsy, you also observed what appeared to be stab
28 wounds to the torso of Mr. Goldman's body; is that
0087
01 correct?
02 A Yes.
03 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, I have here another
04 diagram depicting apparent stab wounds to the right side
05 of the torso and the left thigh.
06 May that be People's 30 for identification?
07 THE COURT: Yes.
08 BY MR. HODGMAN:
09 Q Dr. Golden, with reference to People's 30 for
10 identification, and a figure that appears at the
11 left-hand side of the diagram, are there depicted the
12 approximate locations of three stab or cutting wounds
13 that you observed on Mr. Goldman's body during the
14 autopsy that you performed?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And again, these wounds are numbered for
17 reference purposes only and do not necessarily mean the
18 order in which they were inflicted; is that correct?
19 A That's correct.
20 Q And Dr. Golden, starting with wound number 1,
21 as indicated on People's 30 for identification, would
22 you describe that wound for us, please.
23 A That depicts a stab wound on the right side of
24 the chest.
25 Excuse me. Did you want a description of
26 each -- of each wound, or just what they are?
27 Q I would like a description of each wound,
28 starting with the wound that you have numbered as
0088
01 number 1.
02 A All right.
03 That was a stab wound on the right side of the
04 chest, 5/8's of an inch in length, with a rounded or
05 blunted on the lower end, and this wound went into the
06 chest through the right seventh rib into the chest
07 cavity.
08 There was approximately 100, 200 M.L. of blood
09 in the chest cavity, and further dissection disclosed
10 that the wound perforated the right lung and continued
11 forward and terminated -- or the wound path terminated
12 on the front of the rib cage where I found a 3/4 inch
13 cut on the posterior aspect or back of the right fourth
14 rib.
15 So after estimating the total length of the
16 wound path, it was 4 inches.
17 Q Now, doctor, when you say, "M.L.," you're
18 referring to milliliters, are you not?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Was the length of this particular wound
21 approximately 5/8's of an inch?
22 A The measurement on the skin was 5/8's of an
23 inch, yes.
24 Q And in your opinion, sir, was this wound
25 consistent with having been inflicted by a single-edge
26 knife?
27 A Yes. This one had the configuration of a
28 single -- of a single-edged blade. It had the -- the
0089
01 wound had a blunt or squared-off end and a pointer or
02 tapered end.
03 Q Was this a fatal wound, doctor?
04 A This wound perforated the lung and caused
05 hemorrhage into the right chest cavity and is considered
06 a fatal wound.
07 It should also be known that there was another
08 stab wound also into the right side of the chest which
09 also injured the lung.
10 Q We're going to talk about that second stab
11 wound in just a second, doctor.
12 Just one more question with regard to stab
13 wound number 1.
14 Was it an antemortem wound, in your opinion?
15 A Yes. Yes, it was.
16 Q Now doctor, with reference to the stab wound
17 that you have numbered as stab wound number 2 on the
18 right side of Mr. Goldman's body, would you describe
19 that wound for us, please.
20 A That was on the right side of the chest,
21 actually, close to stab wound number 1. And this wound
22 measured 1 1/2 inches in length on the skin, diagonally
23 oriented.
24 This also had the characteristic of a dull or
25 blunted and pointer or tapered end, which again is
26 consistent with a single edged blade.
27 And this wound also penetrated the chest
28 through the rib cage. And this wound path was close to
0090
01 the wound past of stab wound number 1, with bleeding
02 along the wound path, and it also went through the lower
03 part of the right lung, creating a perforating injury.
04 And again, there was hemorrhage along the
05 wound path and the blood in the plural cavity.
06 Q Indicating that this was a wound inflicted
07 while Mr. Goldman was alive; isn't that right?
08 A Yes.
09 Q Was this wound fatal?
10 A Yes. Because of the perforation of the lung
11 and the associated hemothorax.
12 Q Now, doctor, there is a third wound that is
13 depicted on the figure on the left-hand side of
14 People's 30 for identification.
15 That was a stab wound to the right flank, was
16 it not?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And that had a length of approximately 3/8's
19 inches and a depth of penetration only into the skin and
20 underlying tissue; is that correct?
21 A Yes. That was a superficial wound. Did not
22 penetrate the chest or abdomen.
23 Q Was it an antemortem wound, in your opinion?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Doctor, with regard to the figure at the right
26 side of the diagram marked People's 30 for
27 identification, there appears to be a wound to the left
28 thigh indicated on the diagram; is that correct?
0091
01 A Yes.
02 Q And did you detect and observe such a wound
03 upon the body of Ronald Goldman when you performed the
04 autopsy?
05 A Yes.
06 Q And would you describe that wound, please.
07 A This was a stab wound of the lateral outside
08 aspect of the left thigh, 2 1/8 inches in length, and
09 there was a blunt or dull end seen, 1/32 of an inch, and
10 the wound path was through the skin, into the muscle of
11 the thigh, with bleeding along the wound path. The
12 depth of penetration was approximately 3 dash 3 1/2
13 inches.
14 Q Meaning 3 to 3 1/2 inches?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And from your testimony, sir, I would infer
17 that this was a wound that you would characterize as
18 antemortem; is that correct?
19 A Yes. There was bleeding along the wound path
20 and the tissue spaces, yes.
21 Q With regard to what you observed in connection
22 with this particular wound, would you characterize this
23 wound as one consistent with having been inflicted by a
24 single-edged knife?
25 A Now, this wound did have the characteristic
26 rounded or dull end that would be characteristic of a
27 single-edged blade, yes, it would.
28 Q Doctor, during the course of the autopsy
0092
01 involving Mr. Goldman's body, you detected a wound to
02 the left-side abdomen of Mr. Goldman, did you not?
03 A Yes.
04 MR. HODGMAN: And, Your Honor, I have here one last
05 diagram depicting the described wound to the left side
06 abdomen of Mr. Goldman.
07 May this be 31 for identification?
08 THE COURT: Yes.
09 BY MR. HODGMAN:
10 Q Doctor, with reference to the wound as
11 depicted in the right most figure on this diagram of
12 People's 31 for identification, would you describe that
13 wound for us, please.
14 A Okay. And I'm referring to my report to
15 refresh my recollection.
16 This is a stab wound of the left flank, below
17 the rib cage, and it was 3/4 of an inch in length.
18 This wound did not have a blunt or squared-off
19 end. It was -- one end was pointed or tapered, the
20 opposite end was forked or split.
21 And then going through this, this wound
22 penetrated into the body wall and passed through the
23 muscle, the iliopsoas muscle, with bleeding along the
24 way.
25 And then going from back to front, the wound
26 path ended in the abdominal aorta where two perforating
27 stab wounds were evident.
28 So the wound terminated in the abdominal area
0093
01 with two perforating wounds.
02 Q In other words, the abdominal aorta was
03 perforated; is that correct?
04 A Yes.
05 Q What was the apparent depth of the wound?
06 A Measured from the outside of the body wall to
07 the termination in the aorta was approximately 5 1/2
08 inches.
09 Q Was this wound fatal in and of itself?
10 A Yes. This perforated the aorta. There was
11 hemorrhage along the wound path and there was bleeding
12 inside the body cavity, the peritoneal cavity.
13 Q Doctor, not depicted on any diagram identified
14 thus far, was there a stab wound to the upper right
15 chest over the right clavicle? Do you recall that one?
16 A Yes. I'm -- yes. It's not on this
17 diagram. It's in my report.
18 Q And that was a superficial wound.
19 A This was a superficially oriented wound,
20 1/2 inch in length, involving the skin, subcutaneous
21 tissue.
22 Again, it was split or forked on one end,
23 pointer or tapered on the other end, with a small amount
24 of hemorrhage.
25 Again, cannot tell from this wound whether it
26 was caused by a single or double-edged blade.
27 Q You were able to determine, were you not, that
28 this was an antemortem wound?
0094
01 A Yes. There was a small amount of fresh
02 bleeding associated, so it was an antemortem wound.
03 Q Dr. Golden, earlier in your testimony today,
04 you have described for us what are known as defense
05 wounds.
06 Did you see any indicia of defense wounds on
07 Mr. Goldman's body?
08 A Yes.
09 Q In general, would you describe what you
10 observed in that regard.
11 A He had cut -- he had cutting wounds on the
12 right hand and on the left hand.
13 And specifically, there were cutting wounds on
14 the palm of the right hand, the base of the index
15 finger; palmar surface of the right hand near the web of
16 the thumb; palmar surface of the left hand at the web of
17 the thumb.
18 And on the addendum report, specifically on
19 the palmar surface of the left hand there was a
20 superficial cutting wound.
21 So I believe that characterizes the main sharp
22 force or cutting injuries on his hands.
23 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, I have here two
24 photographs.
25 People's 29 for identification, with the
26 Court's permission, depicts the palms --
27 THE COURT: I'm sorry, People's 29? We're up
28 to 31.
0095
01 MR. HODGMAN: I'm sorry, 32. Yes.
02 And that photograph bears a coroner's tag and
03 appears to depict the right palm of the decedent.
04 And then People's 33 for identification,
05 Your Honor, similar photograph depicting what appears to
06 be the left palm of the decedent Ronald Goldman.
07 It, too, also bears a coroner's evidence tag
08 which corresponds to the case number assigned to
09 Mr. Goldman's autopsy.
10 May these be so marked for identification?
11 THE COURT: Yes.
12 BY MR. HODGMAN:
13 Q Dr. Golden, I'm going to hand you first
14 People's 32 for identification, and ask that you observe
15 that in discreet fashion.
16 Sir, does that photograph depict the shaper
17 incised wounds that you have described in your testimony
18 as defense wounds to the right palm of Mr. Goldman's
19 hand?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Was that a photo taken during Mr. Goldman's
22 autopsy?
23 A Yes.
24 Q With regard to People's 33 for identification,
25 would you tell us what that depicts, sir? That is the
26 photograph that is now face down on the witness stand
27 before you.
28 What does that photograph depict, sir?
0096
01 A That is the left hand of the decedent, palmar
02 surface.
03 Q Does that photograph truly and accurately
04 depict the defense wounds to the left palm of
05 Mr. Goldman's hands that you have described thus far in
06 your testimony?
07 A Yes.
08 Q Dr. Golden, with respect to the wounds
09 depicted in People's 32 and 33, did you also observe
10 what might be called defense wounds to the back of
11 Mr. Goldman's hands as well as to his forearms?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And in general as in brief, how would you
14 characterize those wounds?
15 A Basically there are multiple abrasions
16 involving the forearm, including the outer or lateral
17 aspect of the forearm, where there are multiple
18 abrasions. That means scratches. Some were not
19 scratches. They were irregular in configuration.
20 On the top of the hand there were fresh
21 bruises, abrasions on the knuckles, and I went into
22 detail on which fingers and which knuckles.
23 There are abrasions, bruises on various
24 knuckles and fingers of the right hand.
25 On the top or dorsal surface of the left hand
26 there were multiple red-brown abrasions involving the
27 knuckles of the index finger, and then there were
28 multiple irregularly configured abrasions on the knuckle
0097
01 of the middle finger.
02 There was also a fresh bruise about 1 1/4
03 or 1 1/2 inches on the top of the left hand adjacent to
04 the wrist, and fresh bruises on the ulnar surface of the
05 left wrist, which means on the -- I guess you'd say the
06 inner surface of the left wrist.
07 And on the addendum report there were a few
08 additional abrasions on the fingers. The fingers of
09 the left hand: middle finger, left-hand fifth finger,
10 and on the distal portion of the left thumb.
11 So basically there were a number of abrasions
12 and bruises, many on the top of the knuckles of the
13 fingers and on top of the hand.
14 Q All compatible with defense wounds, in your
15 opinion?
16 A Well, yes. Or arising during a struggle.
17 Q Dr. Golden, at the conclusion of your autopsy,
18 did you form an opinion as to the cause of Ronald
19 Goldman's death?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And what was your opinion?
22 A He died as a result of multiple sharp force
23 injuries, which included the cutting wound of the left
24 side of the neck, which severed or transected the left
25 internal jugular vein; and the two stab wounds of the
26 right side of the chest, which perforated the thorax and
27 right lung; and the stab wound of the left side of the
28 abdomen, which perforated the abdominal aorta.
0098
01 Q A few more questions, sir.
02 If you may.
03 THE COURT: Yes.
04 BY MR. HODGMAN:
05 Q Dr. Golden, during each of these autopsies,
06 were the investigating officers from the Los Angeles
07 Police Department present?
08 A Yes.
09 Q And by that I mean, specifically were
10 detectives Phil Vannatter and Tom Lange present during
11 each of the autopsies?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Sir, with regard to the autopsy performed on
14 Nicole Brown Simpson's body, did you take a blood sample
15 for purposes of serological study?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And was that particular blood sample placed in
18 a test tube bearing Nicole Brown Simpson's name and the
19 applicable coroner's case number?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Was the same procedure followed with regard to
22 the taking of a blood sample from Ronald Goldman's body?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And were those blood samples later delivered
25 into the custody of detective Vannatter?
26 A Yes.
27 Q Mr. -- or Dr. Golden, on June the 15th, 1994,
28 were you visited at the Los Angeles County Coroner's
0099
01 Office by detective Phil Vannatter?
02 A Yes.
03 Q On that date, sir, did Detective Vannatter
04 show you a knife?
05 A Yes.
06 Q Describe what you recall about the knife that
07 was shown to you by Detective Vannatter.
08 A It was a folding knife with a blade
09 approximately six inches long.
10 Q And describe what happened when Detective
11 Vannatter showed you that knife.
12 A Well, he wanted to know if that knife was
13 consistent or compatible with the wounds that I saw
14 inflicted on either individual, and whether it was
15 compatible with some of the wounds inflicted on either
16 individual.
17 Q And did you provide Detective Vannatter with
18 an answer?
19 A I said it could have, yes, I did.
20 Q And what was your answer?
21 A I said it could have been -- it could have
22 been the weapon, yes, that inflicted some of the wounds.
23 Q Now, you examined the knife; is that correct?
24 A Cursorily, yes. I measured the length and
25 the width of the blade.
26 Q Now, is your opinion that a knife such as that
27 could have inflicted the wounds received by Nicole Brown
28 Simpson and Ronald Goldman definitive, or would you have
0100
01 like to have done something more with regard to
02 examination of the knife to determine more precisely?
03 A It was not definitive. I would like to do a
04 lot more.
05 Q Like what?
06 A Well, make detailed measurements of the blade,
07 correlating each wound that I described, specifically
08 each stab wound that I described in my protocol, with
09 measurements of the blade of the instrument.
10 Q To date, sir, have you had the opportunity to
11 conduct such an examination?
12 A No, I haven't.
13 Q So your opinion then is, with regard to the
14 knife displayed to you by detective Vannatter, that it
15 could have inflicted the wounds upon Mr. Goldman's body
16 and upon Nicole Brown Simpson's body, but not
17 necessarily so; is that correct?
18 A Not necessarily so. To be scientific, I
19 would have to get my little white ruler out that I use
20 for measuring the wounds on the body and do the same
21 thing on the knife.
22 MR. HODGMAN: May I have a moment, Your Honor?
23 THE COURT: Yes.
24 MR. HODGMAN: No further questions.
25 THE COURT: It is about five minutes to 12:00.
26 Which of you is going to cross-examine?
27 MR. SHAPIRO: I am, Your Honor.
28 THE COURT: Okay. I think we'll break at this
0101
01 point, and we'll start with cross-examination at 1:30.
02 I would like to see counsel briefly in
03 chambers.
04
05
06
07 (At 11:55 a.m., a recess was taken until 1:30 p.m.)
08
09
10
11 (Proceedings were had in chambers, which
12 were transcribed in Volume 12-A,
13 and ordered sealed by the court.)
14
15
16
17
0102
01 THE MUNICIPAL COURT OF LOS ANGELES JUDICIAL DISTRICT
02 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
03
03
04 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, )
04 ) no. BA097211
05 PLAINTIFF, )
05 )
06 VS. )
06 )
07 )
07 ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
08 AKA O.J. SIMPSON, )
08 )
09 )
09 )
10 DEFENDANT. )
10 _______________________________________)
11
11
12 STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
12 ) SS
13 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES )
13
14
14
15
16 I HEREBY CERTIFY THAT I AM AN OFFICIAL C.A.T.
17 COURT REPORTER OF THE ABOVE-ENTITLED COURT; THAT I DID
18 CORRECTLY REPORT THE PROCEEDINGS CONTAINED HEREIN; AND
19 THAT THE FOREGOING IS A TRUE AND CORRECT STATEMENT OF
20 PROCEEDINGS AND TRANSCRIPTION OF MY SAID NOTES.
21
21
22 DATED THIS 8th DAY OF July, 1994.
22
23
23
24 _____________________________________
24 ARNELLA I. SIMS, CSR #2896
25 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
25
26
26
27 _____________________________________
27 ROBERT GUNN, CSR #1539
28 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
28
0001
01 IN THE MUNICIPAL COURT OF LOS ANGELES JUDICIAL DISTRICT
02 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
03 HON. KATHLEEN KENNEDY-POWELL, JUDGE DEPARTMENT 105
04 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, ) NO. BA097211
04 )
05 PLAINTIFF, )
05 )
06 VS. ) VOLUME 12-A
06 )
07 )
07 ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
08 AKA O.J. SIMPSON, )
08 )
09 )
09 DEFENDANT. )
10 _______________________________________)
10
11
11
12 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
12
13 FRIDAY, JULY 8, 1994
13
14
14
15 APPEARANCES:
15
16 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: MARCIA CLARK
16 WILLIAM HODGMAN
17 DEPUTIES DISTRICT ATTORNEY
17
18
18
19 FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT SHAPIRO
19 GERALD UELMEN
20 PRIVATELY RETAINED COUNSEL
20
21
21
22
22
23 SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES
23
24
24
25
25
26
26 ARNELLA I. SIMS, CSR #2896
27 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
27
28
0002
01 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA
02 Friday, July 8, 1994
03 12:00 Noon
04 -O0O-
05
06 (The following proceedings were had in chambers.)
07
08 THE COURT: We're in chambers with counsel for both
09 sides.
10 I only wanted to just get a feel for how much
11 longer we have.
12 Do you know how long your cross-examination is
13 going to be approximately?
14 MR. SHAPIRO: Yes. I would say less than an hour.
15 THE COURT: Okay. And this is your last witness,
16 I assume?
17 MS. CLARK: Yes.
18 THE COURT: I don't expect you're going to present
19 an affirmative defense?
20 MR. SHAPIRO: We're going to ask for a stipulation
21 regarding the phone records that were presented in open
22 court from the phone call from Mrs. Brown to Nicole,
23 which I believe was at 10:17.
24 THE COURT: And is there -- is there going to be a
25 problem with that?
26 MS. CLARK: If that's what the records say, there
27 will be no problem with that.
28 But which record?
0003
01 MR. SHAPIRO: Phone records from the telephone
02 company that you gave us.
03 MS. CLARK: I'm going to have to locate it. I'll
04 locate it and make sure.
05 THE COURT: With reference to defense exhibits that
06 were received for purposes of the motion only, do you
07 wish to offer any of those -- or will you be offering
08 any of those with regard to the case?
09 MR. SHAPIRO: Yes, yes. We'll be offering all of
10 them.
11 THE COURT: Okay. Let's see if there's anything
12 else.
13 MS. CLARK: Counsel, just so I can make sure.
14 You're saying it was a phone call from Nicole
15 Brown to her mother or from the mother to Nicole?
16 MR. SHAPIRO: From the mother to Nicole.
17 THE COURT: Okay. Then I guess that's it. I
18 just wanted to know where we stood.
19 You can transcribe this, but until I'm sure
20 about the stipulation, then this is sealed.
21 If the stipulation is agreed to by everyone,
22 then I don't have any problem with this portion of the
23 transcript being released.
24 Okay.
25 See you at 1:30.
26 MR. HODGMAN: See you then, Your Honor.
27
28 (Proceedings concluded at 12:02 p.m.)
0004
01 THE MUNICIPAL COURT OF LOS ANGELES JUDICIAL DISTRICT
02 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
03
03
04 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, )
04 ) no. BA097211
05 PLAINTIFF, )
05 )
06 VS. )
06 )
07 )
07 ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
08 AKA O.J. SIMPSON, )
08 )
09 )
09 )
10 DEFENDANT. )
10 _______________________________________)
11
11
12 STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
12 ) SS
13 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES )
13
14
14
15
16 I HEREBY CERTIFY THAT I AM AN OFFICIAL C.A.T.
17 COURT REPORTER OF THE ABOVE-ENTITLED COURT; THAT I DID
18 CORRECTLY REPORT THE PROCEEDINGS CONTAINED HEREIN; AND
19 THAT THE FOREGOING IS A TRUE AND CORRECT STATEMENT OF
20 PROCEEDINGS AND TRANSCRIPTION OF MY SAID NOTES.
21
21
22 DATED THIS 8th DAY OF July, 1994.
22
23
23
24
24
25
25 _____________________________________
26 ARNELLA I. SIMS, CSR #2896
26 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
27
27
0001
01 IN THE MUNICIPAL COURT OF LOS ANGELES JUDICIAL DISTRICT
02 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
03 HON. KATHLEEN KENNEDY-POWELL, JUDGE DEPARTMENT 105
04 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, ) NO. BA097211
04 )
05 PLAINTIFF, )
05 )
06 VS. ) VOLUME 13
06 )
07 )
07 ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
08 AKA O.J. SIMPSON, )
08 )
09 )
09 DEFENDANT. )
10 _______________________________________)
10
11
11
12 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
12
13 FRIDAY, JULY 8, 1994
13
14
14
15 APPEARANCES:
15
16 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: MARCIA CLARK
16 WILLIAM HODGMAN
17 DEPUTIES DISTRICT ATTORNEY
17
18
18
19 FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT SHAPIRO
19 GERALD UELMEN
20 PRIVATELY RETAINED COUNSEL
20
21
21
22
22
23 SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES
23
24
24
25
25
26
26 ARNELLA I. SIMS, CSR #2896
27 ROBERT GUNN, CSR #1539
27 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERS
28
0002
01 I N D E X
01 VOIR
02 PEOPLE'S WITNESS(ES): DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS DIRE
02
03 IRWIN L. GOLDEN 3 28
03
04
04
05 -O0O-
05
06
06 EXHIBITS
07
07 PEOPLE'S EXHIBITS: IN EVIDENCE
08
08 1 - BOARD OF FOUR PHOTOS 29
09
09 2 - PHOTO 29
10
10 3 - PHOTO 29
11
11 5 - PHOTO 29
12
12 6 - SERIES OF PHOTOS 29
13
13 7 - DIAGRAM 29
14
14 8 - SERIES OF PHOTOS 29
15
15 9 - SERIES OF PHOTOS 29
16
16 10 - PHOTO 29
17
17 11 - PHOTO 29
18
18 12 - PHOTO 29
19
19 13 - PHOTO 29
20
20 14 - PHOTO 29
21
21 15 - PHOTO 29
22
22 16 - PHOTO 29
23
23 17 - PHOTO 29
24
24 18 - PHOTO 29
25
25 19 - SERIES OF PHOTOS 29
26
26 20 - SERIES OF PHOTOS 29
27
27 21 - PHOTO 29
28
28
0003
01 I N D E X (CONTINUED)
01
02 22 - PHOTO 29
02
03 23 - SERIES OF PHOTOS 29
03
04 24 - CHART 29
04
05 25 - DIAGRAM 29
05
06 26 - DIAGRAM 29
06
07 27 - DIAGRAM 29
07
08 28 - DIAGRAM 29
08
09 29 - DIAGRAM 29
09
10 30 - DIAGRAM 29
10
11 31 - DIAGRAM 29
11
12 32 - PHOTO 29
12
13 33 - PHOTO 29
13
14
14
15 DEFENSE EXHIBITS:
15
16 A - ARCHITECT'S RENDERING 30
16
17 B - PHOTO 30
17
18 C - PHOTO 30
18
19 D - PHOTO 30
19
20 F - SERIES OF PHOTOS 30
20
21
21
22
22
23
23
24
24
25
01 Los Angeles, California; Friday, July 8, 1994
02 1:30 p.m.
03 -o0o-
04
05 IRWIN L. GOLDEN,
06 having been previously duly sworn, resumed the stand, was
07 examined and testified further as follows:
08 THE COURT: We are once again on the record in the
09 case of people v. Simpson. The defendant is present
10 with counsel. The people are represented. Dr. Golden
11 is on the witness stand.
12 I remind you, sir, you remain under oath.
13 Mr. Shapiro.
14 MR. SHAPIRO: Thank you very much, your Honor.
15
16 CROSS-EXAMINATION
17
18 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
19 Q Good afternoon, doctor.
20 A Good afternoon.
21 Q Doctor, I was presented this morning with a
22 three-quarter page form that indicates "curriculum vitae";
23 and it's dated may of '94.
24 Is this your current resume?
25 A Yes.
26 Q And is it up to date?
27 A I believe so.
28 Q I notice in here that it indicates - there is a
0004
01 space for current academic appointments, and it is blank.
02 During your tenure, have you had any academic
03 appointments?
04 A No.
05 Q And it indicates in here "current medical staff
06 appointments," and it is blank.
07 During your tenure, have you had any medical
08 staff appointments?
09 A No.
10 Q Then the next thing that is listed is the
11 concise summary of your role in the forensic pathology
12 program; and it lists three things, that you perform
13 autopsies, courtroom testimony and lecturer.
14 Does that cover the gamut of the summary of
15 your role as a forensic pathologist?
16 A I am trying to think if there is anything I
17 have omitted.
18 Basically so, yes, unless there are some things I
19 haven't recollected.
20 Basically, I am a deputy medical examiner and
21 forensic pathologist.
22 Q You talked before about your being a physician.
23 Have you ever practiced medicine?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Now, you indicated you are a lecturer.
26 What types of lectures do you give and to whom?
27 A That would be intramural lectures at the
28 department of coroner.
0005
01 Q I'm sorry? I didn't hear you.
02 A That would be intramural, or interdepartment,
03 lectures at the department of coroner.
04 Q So you talk to your colleagues?
05 A That would be -- yes, yes.
06 Q And courtroom testimony, you have told us, I
07 believe, you have testified approximately 700 times?
08 A Approximately, yes.
09 Q And how many of those 700 times have you been
10 called as a witness for the prosecution?
11 A Many times. Hundreds of times.
12 Q How many of those times have you been called as a
13 witness for the defense?
14 A I don't have the tally.
15 In civil cases I could be called by either the
16 plaintiffs or the defendants. I wouldn't know -- i have
17 testified in civil cases; But in those instances, I am not
18 sure whether it has been the plaintiffs or the defendants.
19 In most of the criminal -- in most of the
20 criminal cases, the prosecution calls me as a witness but
21 not invariably because -- I won't say "frequently" but
22 occasionally the defense counsel wants -- wants us called
23 as a witness rather than accepting a stipulation.
24 Q Have you testified in any state as an expert
25 witness other than California?
26 A Not as a -- no, I have not.
27 Q Have you testified in any other city -- or any
28 county other than Los Angeles county as a forensic
0006
01 pathologist, as an expert?
02 A Well, as a medical examiner, some of my cases
03 have been in other counties. I am sure about
04 San Bernardino county. I have been in santa barbara
05 County -- i have been called as a witness in santa barbara
06 county. it pertained to a department of coroner case,
07 But -- it was a civil case, and I -- either the plaintiff
08 or the defendant called me. the reason I went there was
09 not as a consultant but because the decedent came under our
10 jurisdiction.
11 I did testify in an L.A. civil case in santa
12 barbara county, civil case in San Bernardino county; but I
13 would be available in a criminal case in any county in
14 California.
15 Q Also on your curriculum vitae, you have presented
16 a list of publications from the last five years; and you
17 have included yourself as a co-author, in 1989, of a
18 four-page magazine article dealing with pneumonia in
19 infants.
20 Is that the extent of your publications?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Have you reviewed the general texts in the
23 field for determining time of death?
24 A Excuse me? Did you say "text" or "texts"?
25 Q "Texts"; books.
26 A Yes.
27 Q And what books have you relied upon in forming
28 opinions as to the time of death?
0007
01 A I have read forensic pathology textbooks, and
02 these would be the standard texts: Gradwall's forensic
03 medicine -- comma -- Spitz and Fisher's medicolegal
04 investigation of death, latest edition; Adleson's pathology
05 of homicide; Demayo's text on forensic pathology; and
06 Knight's -- K-n-i-g-h-t -- textbook on forensic
07 pathology.
08 These are all standard references available to
09 me at the department of coroner.
10 Q And in reviewing those sources, would you
11 agree that the following factors are to be considered in
12 determining time of death: first, rigor mortis?
13 A Yes.
14 Q second, lividity?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Third, temperature change?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Fourth, digestion in the stomach?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And, fifth, eye fluids?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Anything else you would like to add to that list?
23 A Eyewitness.
24 Q Eyewitness.
25 Okay. That would be six.
26 Anything else?
27 A No. I think that covers it.
28 Q And would you say that one of the important roles
0008
01 of your job as a deputy medical examiner is to ascertain
02 the time of death in a homicide?
03 A I would say to give -- to help determine a
04 range of the time of death, yes.
05 Q And there are other people who you work with in
06 forming those conclusions that are part of the coroner's
07 office; is that correct?
08 A Yes, that is.
09 Q And that would be a medical investigator?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And a deputy coroner?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Would there be other members of the team you
14 would rely on for that type of information?
15 A No. The deputy coroner, the coroner investigator
16 would be our eyes and ears.
17 Q And those people have also filed reports that you
18 have included as part of what you call the autopsy report,
19 or autopsy protocol; is that correct?
20 A Yes, that's correct.
21 Q And you reviewed their findings prior to
22 testifying today?
23 A Yes.
24 Q In reviewing their findings regarding nicole
25 Simpson, were you informed that she was found and
26 pronounced dead by a member of the Los Angeles fire
27 department, engine 19 squad?
28 A Okay. I guess -- I can't find the relevant
0009
01 page in my protocol here.
02 Yes. I found it.
03 Q Take your time.
04 A Yes. LAFD, engine 19 -- pronounced by LAFD,
05 engine 19.
06 Q And what was the time that the decedent
07 Miss Brown was pronounced dead?
08 MR. HODGMAN: Objection, your Honor. Calls for
09 hearsay.
10 THE COURT: Sustained.
11 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, may I be heard on that?
12 THE COURT: All right.
13 MR. SHAPIRO: May I -- first, I believe these are
14 official records and part of the autopsy protocol which he
15 has indicated; And if he has relied on these records in
16 performing his opinion, he can testify to it.
17 Second, hearsay is admissible at these
18 proceedings.
19 MR. HODGMAN: If I may be heard, your Honor?
20 THE COURT: Yes.
21 MR. HODGMAN: First of all, the people have
22 elicited no opinion with regard to time of death, nor do
23 we intend to. We have an independent factual basis for
24 that. So there is no foundational aspect to this.
25 Second of all, it is complete hearsay. There is
26 information in a report. And counsel has the burden of
27 establishing this is an official record. And it is hearsay
28 upon hearsay and, hence, still inadmissible.
0010
01 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, if the people are going
02 to contend a case report from the county coroner as part
03 of an autopsy report is not an official record, we will
04 take the time to establish the foundation.
05 THE COURT: At this point it is hearsay; and the
06 witness not being a peace officer, there is no exception to
07 his being able to relate hearsay.
08 At this point the objection is sustained.
09 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
10 Q In forming any conclusions or opinions in this
11 case, did you at all consider the time the decedent nicole
12 Simpson brown was pronounced dead?
13 MR. HODGMAN: Objection, your Honor. No foundation in
14 evidence thus far and ambiguous as to which conclusions and
15 opinions that counsel is interested in.
16 THE COURT: Sustained.
17 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
18 Q You testified it was part of your job to
19 determine the time of death.
20 MR. HODGMAN: Objection, your Honor. Misstates the
21 evidence.
22 THE COURT: Is that part of your job to determine the
23 time of death?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes; Only I would use the term
25 "estimate" or "range of time of death."
26 THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
27 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
28 Q And what factors did you use to estimate the
0011
01 time of death or range of time of death for the decedent
02 Miss Brown?
03 MR. HODGMAN: Objection. Misstates the evidence.
04 This witness has not made an estimate as to
05 time of death.
06 THE COURT: Well, we haven't heard of an estimate as
07 to time of death; so it assumes facts not in evidence.
08 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
09 Q Have you made an estimate in your official
10 reports, or has anyone from the coroner's office made an
11 estimate, as to the time of death of the decedent
12 Mrs. Brown?
13 MR. HODGMAN: Objection. Compound.
14 THE COURT: Sustained as to someone other than this
15 witness.
16 MR. SHAPIRO: I'm sorry?
17 THE COURT: It would be sustained as to whether
18 someone other than this particular witness made an
19 estimate.
20 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
21 Q Did you make an estimate of the time of death?
22 A There is no official estimate of the time of
23 death. There is nothing written down.
24 Q I am asking did you make an estimate.
25 Did anybody ask you as the head person
26 investigating this homicide to make an estimate as to the
27 time of death? Yes or no?
28 MR. HODGMAN: Objection. That misstates the
0012
01 evidence.
02 He is not the head person investigating this
03 homicide.
04 THE COURT: I think we know what he means.
05 Overruled.
06 Has that been asked of you?
07 THE WITNESS: Yes.
08 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
09 Q Who asked that of you?
10 A My boss, Dr. Lakshmanan.
11 Q Did you give him an answer?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What was your answer?
14 A My answer was --
15 Q Are you referring to something?
16 A No, no.
17 Q It looks like you are reading something to me.
18 Maybe it would be simpler if you need to refer to
19 Something -- if you could put that aside and if you need to
20 refer to it, just ask us. Would that work for you?
21 A Sure would.
22 Q OKAY. Would you kindly put that aside.
23 Now, would you tell us what you told your boss,
24 Dr. Lakshmanan, regarding your estimate of the time of
25 death of nicole brown.
26 A My estimate was based on the state of the gastric
27 contents and the character of the gastric contents. It was
28 somewhere three to four hours after her last meal.
0013
01 Q That was the only factor you relied upon out of
02 the five or six factors that you listed?
03 A I haven't finished yet.
04 Q OH. I'M sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you.
05 A Using that evidence along with the body
06 temperature determinations, which were taken
07 approximately 11 hours after the body was discovered, I
08 used a formula, graphs to reach a conclusion that the
09 range of the time of death was somewhere between 10 and
10 15 hours prior to the time the investigator took the liver
11 temperature determination.
12 Q You used two of the five criteria; is that
13 correct?
14 A And --
15 Q OH. You haven't finished yet.
16 A And I then considered the rigor mortis
17 determination, which, at the time the investigator -- the
18 time the investigator performed her determination, the body
19 was in full Rigor -- If now I may pick up and look at page
20 1 of the coroner's protocol -- The Rigor mortis was fixed
21 and was -- was fully fixed. So that also placed the time
22 of death somewhere beyond 9 to 12 hours. In other words,
23 it was fully fixed at the time, which was probably known at
24 the time of the pronouncement of death.
25 livor mortis was also fixed, and Rigor mortis was
26 fully established.
27 So four of the measurements, or examinations,
28 were performed.
0014
01 Q Let's go through each one of those, if we
02 might.
03 Regarding rigor mortis, what time does the
04 case report that you have just referred to indicate that
05 an observation for rigor mortis was first done by
06 somebody from your department?
07 A It was fully established -- you know, the
08 interesting thing is the air and liver temperature times
09 are given -- date and time. The Rigor -- the livor and
10 Rigor mortis statements do not have an exact date and time
11 listed, but it is taken at or about the time the liver
12 temperature is taken.
13 Q Which is what time?
14 A Well, on nicole brown Simpson, liver
15 temperature was taken at 1050 hours on 6/13/94.
16 Q Would you agree that the closer you take --
17 the closer that you make the observations of the four
18 indications -- well, the three -- Let's not talk about
19 stomach content -- the closer you make the three
20 observations to the time of death, the better chance you
21 will have of accurately establish parameters for time of
22 death?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And would you say that it is proper procedure if
25 a decedent was found at approximately ten minutes after
26 midnight to wait 10-1/2 hours to perform these temperature
27 evaluations?
28 MR. HODGMAN: Objection. Vague and ambiguous as to
0015
01 what is proper procedure.
02 THE COURT: Do you understand the question, doctor?
03 THE WITNESS: Yes.
04 THE COURT: Okay. Then I am going to go ahead and let
05 you answer.
06 THE WITNESS: The measurements are more accurate
07 the closer to the actual time of death.
08 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
09 Q And are there people available from the coroner's
10 office to make those measurements at the request of
11 homicide detectives?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Now, regarding the stomach contents, you say that
14 was something important, that you used as a criteria for
15 establishing the estimated time of death of the decedent
16 nicole brown; is that correct?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And I take it those stomach contents are
19 materials that can be preserved for later analysis. Is
20 that correct?
21 A Can be, yes.
22 Q And, in fact, on the forms that you use, there
23 is a check box for toxicological specimens collected;
24 isn't that correct?
25 A Yes.
26 Q Did you save the stomach contents?
27 A No.
28 Q Were you able to determine who died first, the
0016
01 decedent Goldman or the decedent brown?
02 A No.
03 Q Do you have an opinion as to the time of death of
04 nicole Simpson?
05 A I can give you a range.
06 Q And what is that range?
07 A Somewhere between 9 o'clock and midnight.
08 Q Now, is there something in the report that
09 indicates that one of your investigators had information
10 from the mother of the decedent that she was alive at 11
11 p.m.?
12 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, I am going to object now
13 because counsel is attempting to elicit inadmissible and
14 unreliable hearsay evidence.
15 THE COURT: I think it would be admissible only if
16 the doctor relied upon it in formulating his opinion,
17 and it would not be offered then for the truth of the
18 matter but for the fact the doctor may have relied upon it.
19 And I don't know whether he did or did not; and, therefore,
20 until that foundation is established as to whether he
21 relied upon that in forming his opinion, the objection will
22 be sustained.
23 MR. HODGMAN: Yes. I understand the court's ruling.
24 And should it be permitted, it would be only for the
25 limited purpose articulated by the court?
26 THE COURT: Correct.
27 MR. HODGMAN: Thank you.
28
0017
01 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
02 Q Did you have any information from any
03 investigator that is filed under a county of Los Angeles
04 investigator's report for the department of the coroner
05 regarding the last time somebody saw or spoke to nicole
06 brown?
07 A Yes.
08 Q What information did you have?
09 A Am I allowed to testify on that or --
10 MR. HODGMAN: I am going to object for lack of
11 foundation because there is no indication yet that this
12 witness relied upon that information, whatever it may
13 be.
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 Mr. Shapiro, I think you need to establish that
16 foundationally before I will allow that testimony to come
17 in.
18 MR. SHAPIRO: Thank you.
19 Q You previously testified you read all these
20 reports; is that correct?
21 A Yes. Not in exact detail, but I did look at
22 them.
23 In fact, some of these reports were preliminary,
24 may not have been fully prepared, at the time I did the
25 autopsy.
26 Q When was the report that's -- we are referring
27 to, that has in the upper left-hand corner "no. 3,"
28 prepared?
0018
01 A Okay.
02 The form no. 3, prepared by investigator
03 Ratcliffe, was prepared 6/13/94.
04 Q Was that before or after your autopsy?
05 A 6/13/94 should have been -- prepared before the
06 autopsy.
07 Q Have you had enough time to prepare yourself to
08 testify in this case today?
09 A Yes.
10 Q Have you had enough time to review your reports?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Do you think you would need some more time to
13 prepare yourself adequately for testimony?
14 MR. HODGMAN: I object. That is argumentative.
15 THE COURT: Sustained.
16 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
17 Q Is it your testimony that you did or did not
18 consider the investigator's report before you have
19 testified here today for any -- in any area?
20 A I did consider those parts of the
21 investigator's report that I considered relevant to my
22 testimony, and I have already testified about her
23 measurements that she took. That's the ones I have been
24 asked about.
25 Q Is time of death relevant to your testimony?
26 A Yes.
27 Q Is -- didn't you just say that eyewitnesses are
28 very important in establishing time of death?
0019
01 A Yes.
02 Q Would you consider a mother talking to her
03 daughter as being an eyewitness to when somebody was
04 last alive?
05 A Well, I meant someone actually witnessing her
06 death, as often happens when death is pronounced in a
07 hospital. We know the exact time of death.
08 Q What if somebody recorded the time of a telephone
09 call? Would that be of any help to you?
10 MR. HODGMAN: Objection, your Honor. That calls
11 for speculation.
12 THE COURT: Overruled.
13 Can you answer that?
14 THE WITNESS: A telephone call to the decedent?
15 THE COURT: That is what you mean, isn't it,
16 mr. Shapiro?
17 MR. SHAPIRO: Yes.
18 THE COURT: Yes.
19 THE WITNESS: Yes. That would be useful.
20 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
21 Q Is there anything that was done by anyone from
22 the coroner's office to try to ascertain that?
23 MR. HODGMAN: Objection. That calls for
24 speculation.
25 MR. SHAPIRO: He has the official reports. He can
26 look at them.
27 THE COURT: Overruled.
28 You may answer.
0020
01 THE WITNESS: Yes.
02 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
03 Q What is it?
04 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, now I will object on the
05 grounds counsel is attempting to elicit hearsay and hearsay
06 of a potentially unreliable nature.
07 There is an addendum to the report to which
08 counsel is referring, which states, in part, "the following
09 information summary is based on preliminary information and
10 cannot be completely verified at the time of this report."
11 In addition, what counsel is attempting to
12 elicit does not fall within an exception to the hearsay
13 rule. Even though contained in what may be characterized
14 as an official record, you still have second level
15 hearsay.
16 So on all those grounds, I object.
17 THE COURT: I still don't think, Mr. Shapiro, you
18 have established the foundation the court needed to be
19 established before that information could come in for
20 the limited purpose for which the doctor considered it,
21 if he indeed considered it.
22 I don't know whether he did. That is the
23 foundation that has not been established.
24 MR. SHAPIRO: I believe, your Honor, he has testified
25 an eyewitness or somebody establishing the time the
26 decedent was last known alive would be one of six factors
27 he would consider in establishing time of death.
28 THE COURT: I understand that. But specifically in
0021
01 this case there has been no testimony he, in fact, did
02 rely on any statement from someone indicating they had had
03 a telephone conversation with the decedent; And that's what
04 you need to establish before I will allow that testimony in
05 for a limited purpose only, not for the truth of the
06 matter.
07 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
08 Q If you had some information as to the time the
09 decedent was last talking to her mother, would that be of
10 any benefit to you in coming to your estimate as to the
11 time of death?
12 A My estimates are based on the body measurements.
13 I do not use -- I did not use any information about a
14 telephone conversation.
15 Q Did you see any information about a telephone
16 conversation when you came to your conclusions?
17 A I heard about a telephone conversation and did
18 see it in the report.
19 Q Who did you hear about it from?
20 A The initial -- the initial report of the
21 telephone conversation?
22 Q Yes.
23 A I believe I heard it on the news or in the
24 paper.
25 Q Is that before you saw it in your report?
26 A Yes.
27 Q You mean the news had it on before it was in your
28 investigator's report on the 13th?
0022
01 A I believe the news used the investigator's
02 Report -- preliminary investigator's report.
03 Q Are you saying the news read the report before
04 you did?
05 A No, I am not saying that at all.
06 Q My question now is --
07 a All I am saying is I did not use any telephone
08 conversation to come to this time of death
09 determination. I am using body measurements and Rigor
10 mortis, livor mortis, cooling of the body and the
11 gastric contents. That has nothing to do with a
12 telephone conversation.
13 Q It is 10-1/2 hours after the fact, and you would
14 rather rely upon that than upon a mother's testimony that
15 she -- or mother's comment she had a telephone conversation
16 with her daughter?
17 Which one do you think is more accurate?
18 MR. HODGMAN: Your Honor, that's compound.
19 THE COURT: Among other things.
20 Sustained.
21 MR. SHAPIRO: Thank you.
22 We will go on to something else.
23 Q Do you have an opinion -- you observed the
24 stomach contents of the decedent Mr. Goldman; is that
25 correct?
26 A Yes.
27 Q Did you save those?
28 A Yes.
0023
01 Q Why did you save his and not save hers?
02 A Well, first of all, I did not think it was
03 indicated to save the contents on nicole brown Simpson.
04 It was important to measure it, characterize it and
05 describe it; and I did not think it was indicated to save it
06 for toxicological examination.
07 Of course, saving blood and other body fluids are
08 very important for toxicological examination, which is what
09 we did. The duty to characterize the gastric contents and
10 measure it and describe what was in it is important, which
11 is what I did.
12 On Mr. Goldman, again, blood and other body
13 fluids were preserved. On him I was asked to save the
14 gastric contents.
15 Q Who asked you to do that?
16 A My chief supervisor, Dr. lakshmanan.
17 Q Do you have an opinion as to, between nicole
18 brown and ronald Goldman, who was the last one to consume
19 food?
20 A I have no opinion on that, no.
21 Q Did you form any conclusion or opinion as to
22 whose food was more digested in the stomach?
23 A Mr. Goldman's food was more digested than
24 nicole brown Simpson's.
25
0024
01 Q If he ate after she did, would that mean that
02 he lived longer than she did?
03 A If he had a meal after she had a meal --
04 Q Yes.
05 A -- Does this indicate that he lived longer
06 than she did?
07 Q Yes.
08 A Well, I don't know for sure. His state of --
09 the food being more digested in his stomach could
10 indicate that he had the meal earlier or that he had a
11 lighter meal or that it -- digestion started sooner,
12 whereas her food being in the less digested state,
13 particularly what I observed, a lot of the food was --
14 appeared to be unchewed.
15 Particularly some of the particles of rigatoni
16 were unchewed, and that could indicate that the unchewed
17 food could remain in the stomach for a longer period of
18 time before digestion.
19 Q Regarding the knife wounds, is it your finding
20 that there were two types of knife wounds on both
21 victims?
22 A There are two morphologically different types
23 of stab wounds on the victims. Namely, some of the
24 stab wounds on the victims are indicative of a
25 single-edged blade for the reasons that I indicated.
26 They have both a round or blunt end and a pointed end.
27 And other -- some of the wounds have a
28 characteristically double pointed or forked end, which
0025
01 would indicate that they could be made by either a blunt
02 end instrument, or knife, or a double sharp end
03 instrument. In other words, a two-edged knife or a
04 single-edged knife.
05 And there's no way that my determinations can
06 tell the difference between those, so there are two
07 morphologically different types.
08 Q Could two knives have produced the injuries on
09 both of the victims?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Was there any evidence of any sexual attack on
12 the decedent, Nicole Brown?
13 A No, there wasn't.
14 Q Did you look for any semen, saliva, hairs,
15 Bloods, that might be left behind on the victim of a
16 sexual attack?
17 A Okay. That -- that would be a -- that would
18 be performed by a criminalist, to collect and preserve
19 that evidence, and I wouldn't do it, and it's my
20 understanding that it was not requested or performed.
21 Q Was there any attempt made to look for seman
22 in Nicole or Mr. Goldman at the scene or at the autopsy?
23 A Not to my knowledge.
24 Q Is it proper, in your opinion, to do a rape
25 kit analysis on young women murder victims as a general
26 rule?
27 A The circumstances would dictate whether that
28 procedure would be performed, and the investigators are
0026
01 the ones who would initiate that request.
02 Q Detective Vannatter brought you a knife to
03 examine.
04 A Yes, he did.
05 Q When was that?
06 A Wednesday. So that would be Wednesday,
07 June 15th.
08 Q Was he alone when he brought that to you?
09 A Yes.
10 Q Where were you when you received that knife?
11 A I was in my office at the coroner's office.
12 Q Did he give you a chance to examine the knife?
13 A Briefly.
14 Q Did you ask him -- did you tell him you might
15 have needed -- did you need more time than he gave you
16 to examine it?
17 A For an accurate scientific examination, yes.
18 Q Did you tell him that?
19 A No.
20 Q Why not?
21 A I didn't see -- think it was indicated.
22 Q The detective who is in charge of a homicide
23 comes in with a knife and he tells you, "this may be
24 similar to the murder weapon"; is that correct?
25 A Yes.
26 Q He asks you to check to see, and you're
27 telling us that you didn't think it was indicated for
28 you to perform a proper evaluation?
0027
01 A Well, I said it could be. It could be the
02 weapon that caused some of the wounds, including the
03 cutting wounds.
04 It was a single edged -- it had a single sharp
05 cutting edge, and it's obviously consistent with many of
06 the slashing wounds.
07 And it was a six-inch blade and at the time
08 we didn't think it indicated -- or I didn't think it
09 indicated to go through each wound, wound by wound, to
10 try to exclude that weapon. That can be done at some
11 other time.
12 Q You understand a man is sitting in jail faced
13 with charges of double homicide, do you not?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Well, when could that be done to protect his
16 rights?
17 MR. HODGMAN: Objection, Your Honor; argumentative.
18 THE COURT: Sustained.
19 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
20 Q When would you suggest doing that to protect
21 his rights?
22 MR. HODGMAN: Same objection.
23 THE COURT: Sustained as to the form of the
24 question.
25 BY MR. SHAPIRO:
26 Q When would you suggest doing these tests?
27 A Now?
28 MR. SHAPIRO: I have nothing further.
0028
01 THE COURT: Mr. Hodgeman.
02 MR. HODGMAN: If I may have just a moment,
03 Your Honor.
04 Thank you, Your Honor.
05
06 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
07
08 BY MR. HODGMAN:
09 Q Dr. Golden, with regard to your testimony
10 today regarding time of death, these are estimations,
11 are they not?
12 A Yes.
13 Q These are approximations, are they not?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And there is not a way, even based upon the
16 criteria articulated in court this afternoon, for you to
17 pinpoint a time of death; is that correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q The best you can do is give us a range of time
20 in which time of death might have occurred; is that
21 correct?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And that is an approximation at best, is it
24 not?
25 A Yes.
26 MR. HODGMAN: That's all I have, Your Honor.
27 THE COURT: Mr. Shapiro, anything further?
28 MR. SHAPIRO: This witness may be excused.
0029
01 THE COURT: Thank you, doctor. You may step down.
02 Please do not discuss your testimony with
03 anyone but the attorneys involved.
04 MS. CLARK: At this time, Your Honor, the people
05 would ask that all of the exhibits marked, with the
06 exception of the originally marked 4 and 5, be admitted
07 into evidence.
08 THE COURT: All right. That would be exhibits
09 number 1 through 33, with the exception of People's 4
10 and 5.
11 Mr. Shapiro, do you have any objection to the
12 receipt of those exhibits?
13 MR. UELMEN: No objections.
14 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Uelmen.
15 People's 1 through 33, with the exception of 4
16 and 5, are received in evidence at this time.
17 MS. CLARK: Thank you, Your Honor.
18 The people rest.
19 THE COURT: Will there be any affirmative defense
20 or other evidence offered by the defense?
21 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, we did proffer a
22 stipulation in chambers. I don't know if the people
23 are willing to accept that stipulation?
24 MS. CLARK: There is no evidence to support the
25 stipulation proffered. There will be no stipulation.
26 THE COURT: All right.
27 Did you wish to offer any of your exhibits
28 that had been offered in connection with the motion to
0030
01 suppress?
02 MR. SHAPIRO: Yes, we do, Your Honor, all exhibits.
03 THE COURT: All right. That would be
04 Defense 'A', 'B', 'C', 'D'. The court did not allow
05 'E', 'G', or 'H'.
06 So are you seeking to offer only 'A', 'B',
07 'C', 'D' and 'F' at this time?
08 MR. SHAPIRO: Yes, Your Honor.
09 THE COURT: Any objection?
10 MS. CLARK: No objection.
11 THE COURT: Those items are received from the
12 defense.
13 Do you have any motions at this time?
14 MR. SHAPIRO: Before we begin considering an
15 affirmative defense, there would be a motion to dismiss
16 the case, Your Honor.
17 THE COURT: I'm sorry. You say before you begin
18 considering an affirmative defense?
19 MR. SHAPIRO: Yes. I think at THIS point in time
20 we would like to make a motion to have this case
21 dismissed.
22 THE COURT: That motion is denied.
23 Did you wish to present an affirmative
24 defense?
25 MR. SHAPIRO: May I just have one moment,
26 Your Honor?
27 THE COURT: Yes.
28 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, perhaps we might suggest
0031
01 a five-minute recess so I can confer with counsel and my
02 client.
03 THE COURT: All right.
04 MR. SHAPIRO: Thank you.
05
06 (At 2:15 p.m., a recess was taken until 2:20 p.m.)
07
08 THE COURT: All right. We're once again on the
09 record in the case of People versus Simpson.
10 The defendant is present with counsel, the
11 people are represented.
12 Mr. Shapiro.
13 MR. SHAPIRO: Yes, Your Honor. I have decided not
14 to present any affirmative evidence at this time, and
15 the defense rests on the state of the evidence.
16 THE COURT: All right. Do you have any other
17 motions that you wish to make at this time or be heard
18 with regard to any motions?
19 MR. SHAPIRO: Yes, Your Honor. I would like to be
20 heard on a motion to dismiss.
21 THE COURT: I'll hear you at this time.
22 MR. SHAPIRO: Thank you.
23 Would you like me to go to the podium or stand
24 here?
25 THE COURT: I think the podium is probably better.
26 MR. SHAPIRO: Your Honor, I would ask the court to
27 consider the jury instruction that would be given in a
28 case like this regarding circumstantial evidence, and
0032
01 that is if the evidence presented relies solely on
02 circumstantial evidence, there can be no conviction
03 unless the circumstances point to guilt and are not
04 reconcilable with any other reasonable theory.
05 If, on the other hand, the circumstances may
06 point to guilt or may point to innocence, the jury or
07 finder of fact must adopt that theory which points to
08 innocence and reject that which points to guilt.
09 Now clearly this is not a trial, and clearly
10 this burden is not the same. But the legal principal
11 remains.
12 This is a case based entirely on
13 circumstantial evidence. And it is clear from the
14 presentation of the people and through our
15 cross-examination that the circumstances can point both
16 towards a suspicion of guilt and also towards a theory
17 of innocence.
18 The key piece of evidence that the people are
19 relying on is the serology of a 99 percent chance that
20 four blood drops found at the Bundy crime scene were of
21 the same type and chemical composition as that of
22 Mr. O.J. Simpson.
23 MS. CLARK: Objection. That's a misstatement of
24 the evidence.
25 THE COURT: This is argument, Ms. Clark. You can
26 be heard in response.
27 MR. SHAPIRO: The converse of that is this: if you
28 take the Coliseum on any given Sunday, 40,000, 80,000
0033
01 people will have that same blood type.
02 Number two, there was testimony elicited from
03 the People's witness that Mr. Simpson has joint custody
04 of these children with his ex-wife, the decedent,
05 Nicole.
06 That being the case, it is reasonable to
07 assume that he would visit the children or pick them up
08 at her condominium on a regular basis.
09 Since the criminalist cannot fix the age of
10 the blood spots, there is an equally reasonable theory
11 that those blood spots, if in fact they belonged to
12 Mr. Simpson, were placed there at some other time than
13 at the time of death.
14 And in fact, the criminalist testified that by
15 viewing the photographs, the blood appeared to be of
16 different ages. However, he blamed that on poor
17 photography.
18 But on cross-examination, he admitted that
19 proper crime scene photography requires using the same
20 type of equipment with the same lighting conditions from
21 the same angle.
22 Point number two that the prosecution relies
23 on: There is a matching glove found in the debris
24 behind the Simpson residence that matches a glove found
25 at the crime scene.
26 Another conclusion -- well, let's go by the
27 testimony.
28 I asked deputy Vannatter, "how did that glove
0034
01 get there?" He said, "someone brought it there."
02 Let's look at the other circumstantial
03 evidence involved. If in fact the killer lived at the
04 Simpson residence, the court would have to believe the
05 following:
06 That in a window period of less than an hour,
07 the killer was able to leave the crime scene that has
08 been described with a victim with two arteries in the
09 neck cut, two jugular veins cut, and massive blood from
10 both victims.
11 A clear inference would be that the murderer
12 was indeed covered with blood. The murderer would then
13 have to do the following:
14 Abandon the bloody clothing, because they have
15 not been found or presented; abandon the murder weapon,
16 because that has not been found or discovered; abandon
17 bloody shoes, because they have not been found or
18 discovered; and then go back to his house and leave a
19 bloody glove in his backyard.
20 That just doesn't stand up to logic.
21 We have no evidence whatsoever in this record
22 that whoever committed this horrendous act acted with
23 premeditation and deliberation, as is charged in the
24 complaint filed by the District Attorney.
25 This is a case that the police admit is still
26 under investigation, where other suspects are being
27 sought, where the medical examiner admits that two
28 weapons could have been used, a clear inference that
0035
01 there may be more than one killer.
02 I don't want to go through each and every area
03 of impeachment with the witnesses, but I think it is
04 very, very clear that everybody who has participated in
05 this investigation has not done so in a professional
06 manner.
07 From the time the Los Angeles Police
08 Department arrived on the crime scene, it was nearly
09 ten hours later until they started the scientific
10 investigation and even took the temperature of the body.
11 There was testimony that the Fire Department
12 obviously was there and left and didn't do anything, yet
13 the coroner's records clearly indicate that the Fire
14 Department chief was the person who pronounced the
15 bodies dead. I doubt if he did that from a distance.
16 This is a case that everybody has jumped to an
17 immediate and unrealistic conclusion as to the state of
18 this evidence.
19 This is a case that is not ready yet to come
20 to court. This is a case where the chief serologist
21 said, "we use serology as much to eliminate as to
22 implicate," and yet we have no D.N.A. testing back.
23 This is a case that is needless and groundless
24 and does not warrant any further consideration at this
25 point in time.
26 The court, on viewing all of the evidence that
27 has been presented from the witness stand, should have
28 little difficulty in deciding that this certainly is not
0036
01 a case of any premeditated murder by anyone, for there
02 is totally no evidence on that issue whatsoever; and
03 number two, that there is not and cannot be at this
04 point in time a strong suspicion that Mr. Simpson is
05 guilty of anything.
06 Therefore, Your Honor, it is incumbent upon
07 you to exercise your duties under the law and dismiss
08 this case.
09 THE COURT: Ms. Clark.
10 MS. CLARK: Thank you, Your Honor.
11 In order to find in this case, Your Honor,
12 that there is no strong suspicion to believe the
13 defendant has committed the crimes that he is charged
14 with, you would have to ignore all of the evidence.
15 And the evidence is consistent and very
16 powerful, even at this early stage of the case, that --
17 to indicate that the defendant has indeed committed
18 every crime that he is charged with.
19 As I'm sure this court is aware, there need be
20 no finding with respect to the degree of the murders
21 charged at this time.
22 I will address the issue of the sufficiency of
23 the evidence to prove premeditation, however, if the
24 court desires, but I will leave that for now unless and
25 until the court asks me to address that issue, because I
26 do think the evidence is clearly sufficient to show that
27 these crimes were premeditated murders.
28 With respect to the issue of circumstantial
0037
01 evidence, as usual, as is typical, counsel picks one
02 part away and says, "that's not enough," and takes
03 another part away and says, "that's not enough."
04 And of course, if you pick apart any case, any
05 one bit singly may not be enough to prove the entire
06 case, nor should it be, because circumstantial evidence
07 being one of the stronger ways to prove guilt requires a
08 number of pieces of evidence to amount to proof that the
09 defendant committed the crimes charged. This case is
10 no exception.
11 Rather than relying on the testimony of an eye
12 witness who may be mistaken, who may be under stress,
13 seeing a defendant flee from a scene, perhaps with poor
14 lighting, never having seen that person before, and
15 glimpsing them for a split second, that's direct
16 evidence.
17 But as the court knows, a fingerprint is
18 circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence in
19 that way is very, very reliable and is much stronger
20 because it does rely on many factors for its proof
21 rather than one single one.
22 This is a physical evidence case, and a
23 physical evidence case and the inferences to be drawn
24 therefrom are powerful.
25 First of all, the killer in this case was
26 clearly injured during the commission of these
27 murders. He left a trail of blood leading away from
28 the victims to the rear of the residence and out to the
0038
01 alley.
02 A trail of blood was found from the
03 defendant's Ford Bronco leading up the driveway to his
04 front door.
05 And I would remind the court that the distance
06 between the two locations is a mere two miles,
07 approximately.
08 Certainly, not enough time for whatever injury
09 was sustained at the time of the attack to have healed
10 sufficiently so that he would not bleed, unless he was
11 holding something in his hands that would stop the
12 blood.
13 Now the fact that we failed to find the bloody
14 shoes that clearly were worn from the scene -- although
15 we did find a bloody glove -- is hardly illogical at
16 all. The reason we found the bloody glove was simply
17 accident, the defendant's misfortune.
18 It was clearly his intent at the time the
19 thumps were heard by Kato, he was back there trying to
20 hide things or looking for a place to secrete them and
21 dropped the glove inadvertently.
22 If he knew he dropped the glove, obviously we
23 would never have found that either. But that was not
24 the case. He did drop the glove, not intentionally but
25 by accident.
26 Secondly, the bloody glove that was found at
27 the crime scene is left-handed. That's a very
28 important fact.
0039
01 The bloody shoe prints leaving that crime
02 scene with blood drops alongside them were to the left
03 of those shoe prints. That shows us that the killer
04 was injured somewhere on his left side.
05 The blood on the driver's door handle of the
06 Ford Bronco would logically be opened with the left
07 hand, and it's no coincidence that we just happen to
08 find the blood spot on the driver's door handle.
09 And now I know that the testimony to this
10 time, Your Honor, has indicated that it was positive as
11 an indication of blood, but not tested to be human or
12 animal.
13 But the last time I checked, dogs don't drive
14 cars, and at least not Ford Broncos, and I think we can
15 draw a reasonable inference that it was a human who left
16 the blood on the door handle of the car.
17 And those reasonable inferences are precisely
18 what the court is required to draw from all of the
19 evidence, the reasonable inferences.
20 Now on the day that the defendant returned
21 from Chicago, Detective Vannatter makes the observation
22 that after having seen the left-handed bloody glove left
23 at the crime scene that clearly came off during the
24 struggle, which is what allowed him to get the cut that
25 left the blood drops to the left of the footprints and
26 found the blood -- left the blood drops on the driver's
27 handle door, he sees the defendant with a bandage around
28 his middle left finger.
0040
01 And then he takes him down to Parker Center
02 where he sees, again, that he has -- and we've shown the
03 picture to the court -- a swollen finger on the left
04 hand with a cut that was dressed and treated at Parker
05 Center. No coincidence.
06 Third. The right-handed mate to that glove
07 is found on the defendant's property at, I think it was
08 mere hours after the crimes were committed, in a dark
09 narrow area, obviously where there was some clandestine
10 activity designed to hide evidence, during which time it
11 was inadvertently dropped.
12 And that discovery was made after Kato Kaelin
13 indicated he heard the three thumps against the wall.
14 Someone fell against that wall, and that someone was the
15 defendant, and in that process lost the right-handed
16 glove. And a presumptive test on that glove for blood
17 came up positive.
18 Fourth. The defendant clearly lied to the
19 limousine driver, Allan Park.
20 When Allan Park drove down to the Rockingham
21 gate at about 10:40, the Ford Bronco was not there.
22 Between 10:40 and 10:55, he rang the intercom repeatedly
23 and he received no answer.
24 It was only when 15 minutes later, after Park
25 had just seen a Black person six feet, 200 pounds, walk
26 quickly up the drive and into the front door, that the
27 intercom was finally answered by the defendant.
28 Before that person six feet, 200 pounds,
0041
01 entered the house -- through a front door that Kato said
02 was kept locked -- all downstairs lights were off.
03 Immediately after that person entered the house, all the
04 lights went on. And 30 seconds later, the defendant
05 answered the intercom, where previously he had failed to
06 do so.
07 Now it must be obvious to everyone at this
08 point that the person seen entering the house by Allan
09 Park was the defendant.
10 But he lied to the limousine driver, and it's
11 a very significant lie, because why would he need to do
12 that?
13 Why not just say, "I was out getting some last
14 minute things, I had to go shopping, I had to go to the
15 store, I had to go get something from the 7-Eleven."
16 He could have said anything.
17 But it's very significant that he chose to lie
18 to the limo driver at all, and the lie he chose to tell.
19 What lie did he tell? He said, "oh, I overslept. I
20 just got out of the shower." We know that's not
21 true. He was seen just going into the house 30 seconds
22 before.
23 The only reason to tell such a lie is that the
24 defendant is trying to set up an alibi for the time when
25 he knows that the murders occurred. A very
26 significant, significant piece of evidence.
27 Fifth. The blood drop on the trail leading
28 away from the victims at 875 south Bundy. Testing
0042
01 revealed that only 43 percent of the population could
02 have given -- could have been the source of that blood
03 drop.
04 THE COURT: Is that 43 percent or .43 percent?
05 MS. CLARK: .43. Thank you, Your Honor, .43.
06 Now what's interesting is on
07 cross-examination, counsel attempted to elicit the
08 possibility that that stain might reflect that two
09 people left that blood drop on the trail.
10 If that's true, we do know this: at least one
11 of them had all of the markers that can be attributed to
12 the defendant, who is within .43 percent of the
13 population that could have left that blood drop.
14 And of the 43 percent of the population that
15 could have been the source -- the .43 percent that could
16 have been the source of that blood drop, how many had a
17 bloody glove found on their property mere hours after
18 the murders occurred, a bloody glove that matched the
19 bloody glove found at the crime scene, at the feet of
20 one of the victims?
21 That must considerably narrow down that
22 figure, and so it's not just 99.57 percent of the
23 population that is excluded, but virtually everyone but
24 the defendant when all of the evidence is taken into
25 account, Your Honor.
26 And in light of all of the evidence that we
27 have presented, the people have more than established
28 and carried their burden with respect to this
0043
01 preliminary hearing, and I submit that the defendant
02 should be held to answer for all of the charges as
03 charged in the complaint.
04 Thank you.
05 THE COURT: All right.
06 At this time, the court will take a 15 minute
07 recess. I will announce my ruling at 3:00 o'clock.
08
09 (At 2:45 p.m., a recess was taken until 3:10 p.m.)
10
11 THE COURT: We're once again on the record in the
12 case of People versus Simpson. The defendant is
13 present with counsel, the people are represented.
14 The court has carefully considered the
15 evidence in this case and the arguments of counsel.
16 Keeping in mind that the proof in this matter
17 is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, the court feels
18 that there is ample evidence to establish a strong
19 suspicion of the guilt of the accused, and therefore the
20 motion to dismiss is denied at this time.
21 I want to make one comment with regard to the
22 envelope, and that is this:
23 That that envelope at this time remains
24 sealed; that the contents of that envelope, whatever
25 they may be, in no way played a part in the proceeding
26 or the decision in this matter; that that envelope in a
27 sealed condition will be transferred, along with the
28 court file, to the Superior Court for such further
0044
01 rulings as are appropriate at a future point in time.
02 The defendant will please stand.
03 It appearing to me from the evidence presented
04 that the following offenses have been committed, and
05 there is sufficient cause to believe this defendant
06 guilty of Count 1, a violation of Penal Code section
07 187(a), with a special allegation pursuant to Penal Code
08 section 12022(b); and Count 2, a violation of Penal Code
09 section 187(a), with a special allegation pursuant to
10 Penal Code section 12022(b); and also that there is
11 sufficient evidence of a special allegation pursuant to
12 Penal Code section 190.2(a)(3), the court holds that the
13 defendant be held to answer therefor, that there be no
14 bail allowed in this case, and that the defendant be
15 committed to the custody of the Sheriff of Los Angeles
16 County.
17 Date of arraignment in Superior Court will be
18 July the 22nd at 8:30 in Department 100.
19 The defendant is remanded at this time, and
20 this court is adjourned.
21
22
23 (PROCEEDINGS CONCLUDED AT 3:15 P.M.)
24
25
26
27
28
0045
01 THE MUNICIPAL COURT OF LOS ANGELES JUDICIAL DISTRICT
02 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES, STATE OF CALIFORNIA
03
03
04 THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, )
04 ) no. BA097211
05 PLAINTIFF, )
05 )
06 VS. )
06 )
07 )
07 ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
08 AKA O.J. SIMPSON, )
08 )
09 )
09 )
10 DEFENDANT. )
10 _______________________________________)
11
11
12 STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
12 ) SS
13 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES )
13
14
14
15
16 I HEREBY CERTIFY THAT I AM AN OFFICIAL C.A.T.
17 COURT REPORTER OF THE ABOVE-ENTITLED COURT; THAT I DID
18 CORRECTLY REPORT THE PROCEEDINGS CONTAINED HEREIN; AND
19 THAT THE FOREGOING IS A TRUE AND CORRECT STATEMENT OF
20 PROCEEDINGS AND TRANSCRIPTION OF MY SAID NOTES.
21
21
22 DATED THIS 8th DAY OF July, 1994.
22
23
23
24 _____________________________________
24 ARNELLA I. SIMS, CSR #2896
25 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
25
26
26
27 _____________________________________
27 ROBERT GUNN, CSR #1539
28 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
28