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REPORTER'S DAILY TRANSCRIPT SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA SHARON RUFO, ET AL., N/A, PLAINTIFFS, SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT NO. WEQ (REGINA D. CHAVEZ, OFFICIAL REPORTER) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) THE CLERK: Side bar? MR. BAKER: Yes. THE COURT: Morning. MR. MEDVENE: Morning, Your Honor. MR. BAKER: For obvious reasons, Judge, I want Officer Thompson and MR. MEDVENE: There was a previous order by Your Honor, as I remember THE COURT: Why do they need to be inside today? MR. MEDVENE: They don't have to be inside. THE COURT: Let's keep them outside. MR. MEDVENE: That would be fine. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of THE COURT: Morning, ladies and gentlemen. JURORS: Morning. MR. BAKER: One more housekeeping item. We have as Exhibit 2101, a statement from Officer Terrazas that he (The instrument herein described as a statement from Officer Terrazas MR. MEDVENE: There is no objection. MR. PETROCELLI: Hold on. I think that might not be the right number. MR. BAKER: I got that from Erin. MR. PETROCELLI: We have no objection. THE COURT: It is received. (Statement of Miguel Terrazas dated June 13, 1994, received in THE COURT: Officer or Sergeant Rossi. THE CLERK: Please state your name again for the record. And you are still under oath. THE WITNESS: My name is David R. Rossi. What was the last thing you asked me? THE CLERK: I repeated you're still under oath. THE WITNESS: Oh, yes. Thank you. DAVID ROSSI, previously duly sworn, resumed the stand and testified Q. Sergeant Rossi, you mentioned yesterday, you were assigned to West MR. BAKER: Objection. Outside the scope, relevancy. THE COURT: Overruled. A. West Los Angeles covers the areas of Westwood and Brentwood, Q. And does the West L.A. branch of the LAPD have a detective A. Yes, sir. Q. There's been reference -- you made reference yesterday to the A. Robbery/homicide works out of Parker Center, downtown Los Angeles. Q. What is robbery/homicide, as you understand? A. Robbery/homicide is a division that handles major crimes involving Q. And to your knowledge, what was the primary reason that the double MR. BAKER: Objection. Hearsay, speculation, outside the scope. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) What was your understanding of why it was MR. BAKER: Hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. His understanding has no relevance. MR. MEDVENE: May we be heard, Your Honor? THE COURT: No. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) You made reference to a conversation with Officer Did you discuss -- strike that. Did Officer Riske discuss with you, in talking about the double A. Yes, sir; he said it was possible. Q. Was that your initial conversation with him? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, when you went to 870 South Bundy, early morning hours of June A. Yes, I did. Q. Fresh blood? A. Yes. Q. How would you identify it? Why do you think it was fresh blood? A. Because it was very, very red in color, and it still appeared quite Q. And where did you see it? A. Initially, on the walkway, outside of the location. Q. Do you have any experience in recognizing blood? A. As far as -- as far as what? What do you mean? Q. Well, recognizing blood, as opposed to berry juice or something MR. BAKER: I'm going to object, Your Honor. It's outside the scope; THE COURT: I think it's outside the scope of the cross-examination. Why are we revisiting the whole thing from the beginning? MR. MEDVENE: Well, it was a preliminary to my next question, Your Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) What was it about the stains you testified about A. They appeared to be blood drops and/or smears. I was several feet away from it when I looked at it with a flashlight, MR. BAKER: Move to strike everything Officer Riske told him. Hearsay. THE COURT: Overruled. That shows the basis on which this officer had Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) When Officer Riske pointed out with his A. Yes, sir. Q. Did he ever kneel down and point to the specific spot that he A. Yes, he did. Q. Does the picture you saw which was put on the board yesterday, that MR. BAKER: I object, Your Honor. What picture are we talking about? THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Do you recall yesterday being directed to a A. Yes. MR. BAKER: Your Honor, there were at least three pictures that we had THE COURT: Be more specific. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Would you put up on the board -- let me put a new MR. MEDVENE: Would you put on the board, Exhibit 82? THE WITNESS: Where is it? MR. BAKER: No, no. It's on the screen, Officer. I think that's 82. I'm THE WITNESS: Put this on the board? What do you mean, put it on the board? MR. MEDVENE: We want to put it on the screen, not you. MR. CALLAN: He was talking to you, not him. MR. MEDVENE: I'm sorry. THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, too. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Can you tell us whether or not this picture, taken MR. BAKER: I object. That was asked and answered yesterday. THE COURT: Overruled. A. You're asking me if it's the same color? Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Yeah. Does it look the same as this picture, taken A. I believe the color looks darker; however, the stains or the drops Q. But the color looks darker? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. Thank you. Did you make -- strike that. About how much time did you spend by the rear gate on your A. Less than a minute. I just passed by it. Q. And did you make any specific note of exactly where the blood was A. Do you mean written note or mental note? Q. Yes, written. A. No, sir. Q. Is there any question in your mind, as you sit here today, that you A. No, sir, no question. MR. MEDVENE: I have nothing further. Thank you very much. MR. BAKER: Can I have Exhibit 2100, as well. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER: Q. Now, Officer, or Sergeant -- I apologize -- Sergeant Rossi, last A. No, sir. Q. You haven't talked to them since you got off the witness stand A. No, I haven't. Q. Now, did anybody indicate to you -- and let the record indicate I'm A. No. Q. And would it -- well, that photo was taken on July 13 -- MR. KELLY: Third. MR. BAKER: Third. I'm sorry. This photo was taken -- I'll ask the clerk to mark it the next in THE CLERK: 2102. (The photograph taken on June 13, 1994 was marked Defendant's Exhibit MR. BAKER: Thank you. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) On 2102 -- this photograph was taken on the 13th of Where are they, Officer Rossi? A. There appears to be one here. I didn't see it as well, though, on Q. In fact, what you see is spot 117, and there is no spot 116 on that MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative. I think Mr. Baker MR. BAKER: I messed up again, and I apologize. 115 is depicted on the picture of the horizontal rung of the gate in a THE COURT: Just a minute. Referring to? MR. BAKER: 2102. THE COURT: Otherwise the record not going to be clear. MR. BAKER: I appreciate that. Thank you, sir. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) And there is no spot that you circled as blood drops A. There appears to be a drop there, yes, doesn't show as well. Q. But it didn't appear to be the two drops that you circled on a A. I disagree. It doesn't show on that picture. Q. You believe if we had a better picture, Sergeant Rossi, we would A. I was there. There was blood, sir. Q. You didn't answer my question, Sergeant. I said if we had a MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Asked and answered, argumentative. THE COURT: It is argumentative. Sustained. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) You agree, 116, the two spots that are indicated on MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Asked and answered several times. THE COURT: Overruled. A. No, sir; I disagree. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) You think that both of those blood spots are shown A. There appears to be at least one. Q. Okay. That's the point. There are not two, there are not three, nor MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Your Honor, the picture doesn't show the whole MR. BAKER: I object to his interpretation of what the picture shows. THE COURT: I'll sustain in the form that question is asked. If you I think the question, as posed, asks the officer to testify that the Q. (BY MR. BAKER) You do not see any of the purported blood spots on A. Incorrect, sir. Q. Okay. You see them. Okay. Now, did you dispatch Officer Gonzalez and Officer Ashton to MR. MEDVENE: Objection. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: I'll rephrase. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Did you dispatch Officers Gonzalez and Ashton to 360 A. No. Q. Never did that? A. No, I didn't. Q. YOU didn't dispatch any black and white to go knock on doors at MR. MEDVENE: Objection. That's a different question. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: Pardon? THE COURT: The objection was what? MR. MEDVENE: The question was misleading. He said did you dispatch THE COURT: You're saying it sounded like the same question? MR. MEDVENE: Yes. THE COURT: It does. MR. BAKER: I'll ask a different question. THE COURT: Ask it like a different question. Q. (BY MR. BAKER) Did you dispatch any black and white to 360 North A. Not to my recollection. Q. You wouldn't have had any reason to do that, as you sit here now, A. No. Q. Thank you. MR. BAKER: Nothing further. MR. MEDVENE: Nothing further, Your Honor. THE COURT: You're excused. Thank you. MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I want to keep this witness on call. THE COURT: You may. MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I would move in 2102 and request that the jury THE COURT: Stipulation to foundation? MR. MEDVENE: Yes. THE COURT: Okay, received. (The photograph previously marked Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2102 for MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, for the exhibit book, the order was? THE COURT: Excuse me. MR. PETROCELLI: For the exhibit book, are we going to have a copy for THE COURT: Do you have a smaller version? MR. BAKER: Yes. MR. PETROCELLI: Because we agreed to boards. MR. BAKER: May I pass this before the jury? THE COURT: They can see that. Can't you? MR. BAKER: I don't know. Are we looking at something to depict THE COURT: We'll do it later. MR. MEDVENE: Officer Thompson. MR. PETROCELLI: For the record, another eight-and-a-half by eleven THE COURT: Thank you. THE CLERK: Thank you. It will be re-marked as 2102. THE COURT: Is 719 also an enlargement on your projection? MR. P. BAKER: It's eight and a half by eleven. MR. PETROCELLI: It's eight and a half by eleven. THE COURT: You can project it on there? MR. P. BAKER: Yes. THE COURT: Before this witness testifies, you want to do that? You can MR. P. BAKER: I haven't been doing too well on this Elmo thing, but MR. KELLY: You want the witness to step out, or is he okay? MR. PETROCELLI: He said you can view it on the Elmo. Take 82 off. THE COURT: Is it 719? THE CLERK: It's 2102. MR. PETROCELLI: Its been re-marked. THE COURT: That's what I said: 2102 was 719. MR. PETROCELLI: Yes, it is 719. MR. BAKER: You're getting better. THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. MR. BAKER: Thank you, sir. MR. PETROCELLI: Keep it as 719. THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand. DONALD THOMPSON, was called as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiff THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in THE WITNESS: I do. THE CLERK: If you'd please state and spell your name for the record. THE WITNESS: My name is Donald Thompson, D-O-N-A-L-D, T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. What is your occupation, sir? A. I'm a police officer for the City of Los Angeles. Q. When did you first become a police officer for the City of Los A. October of 1987. Q. Did you go to the police academy? A. Yes, I did. Q. And after graduation, what was your first assignment? A. After graduating, I was assigned to harbor division. Q. And your duties? A. Patrol. Q. And how long were you at harbor division? A. Approximately one year. Q. And what was your next assignment? A. West Los Angeles division. Q. Still at West Los Angeles? A. Yes, sir. Q. And your assignment there? A. I'm assigned as a senior lead officer in West Los Angeles. Q. And what does that mean? A. A senior lead officer serves as a liaison between the community and Q. Do you have patrol functions still? A. Yes, we have patrol functions. Q. Let me take you immediately to June 13, 1994, if I might, and ask A. Yes, I did. Q. How did that come about? A. I was assigned to go there directly from role call. Q. Approximately what time was role call? A. 6:30 in the morning. Q. Approximately what time did he -- did you get to 875 South Bundy? A. Approximately 7 o'clock, maybe five minutes before 7:00. Q. And did you receive an assignment? A. Yes. I was assigned to protect the crime scene and to relieve the Q. Did you go then to the rear of the location? A. Yes, I did. Q. And how long were you in the rear? A. I was at the rear for the duration of my time at rock -- At Bundy, Q. Did you look around generally in the rear area while you were A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you ever observe a glove anywhere in the rear area? MR. BAKER: Irrelevance, Judge. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: No, I didn't. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did you observe the back gate? MR. BAKER: Irrelevant. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Can you tell us whether or not you observed the A. Yes, I did. I could see it from inside the property. Q. Could you tell us what you saw? A. Regarding the gate, I examined the gate and I saw droplet's of Q. Approximately what time was this? A. That was about 7:15 that morning. Q. That morning being June 13, 1994? A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you put up 81, please? We've put on the TV screen, Officer Thompson, what's been marked 81 A. Yes, I do. Q. What is it, sir? A. That's the rear gate of the Bundy location. Q. Put up, if you would, exhibit 83. Placing a -- strike that. Let me step back for a moment. When you saw what you described, Officer Thompson, as blood on the MR. P. BAKER: Objection. Misstates his testimony. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Without looking at the video? A. It was red. It was round, symmetrical, and it had a slight Q. Do you remember, are you familiar with blood in your experience A. Yes, sir. Q. What about your experience with LAPD makes you familiar with blood? A. I've seen blood from victims. I've seen blood from suspects. I've Q. Do you have any prior experience, any work experience where you had A. Yes. Before working with LAPD, I worked at a hospital. Q. Is there any question in your mind that what you saw on the bottom MR. P. BAKER: No foundation. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: No question. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Incidentally, at the scene, did you see any THE COURT: We call it berries. (Laughter.) MR. MEDVENE: You call it what? THE COURT: It's a poor joke. MR. PETROCELLI: Wasn't going to say anything. THE COURT: I apologize. MR. MEDVENE: I apologize. That's a Philadelphia accent, Your Honor. THE WITNESS: Yes, I did see berries, berries? Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Are you familiar with the color of the juice that A. Yes. Yes. Yes, it was a dark purplish look. Q. Now, is there any question that what you saw on the bottom rung of A. There's no question. Q. Now, if you would look at the picture that's on the board and This picture, Officer Thompson, was taken on July, we'll represent to But in terms of the position of what's marked 115 and 116, could you MR. BAKER: It's leading number one; and number two, they're not THE COURT: It's about all you get. Overruled. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Talking about the position? A. Yes. Yes, it is. Q. It is what, sir? A. It seems to be similar to what I saw on the gate on June 13. It did Q. Now, in terms of the color and the redness that you observed on In other words, you remember one being brighter than the other or the MR. P. BAKER: Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Can you describe any difference in color, if there A. Yes. This picture -- in this picture, the marks look darker. And Q. We've put on the board what's been marked 82. We'll represent to A. That depicts the location of the droplet that I saw on the date of Q. Could you please go, if you wouldn't mind, to the TV screen and A. This droplet right here. Q. Pointing to -- that's circling the droplet right under the one of MR. P. BAKER: Did he answer the question? THE COURT: Go ahead. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Do you see another droplet that you saw that day? MR. P. BAKER: Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) How many droplets do you remember seeing Officer MR. P. BAKER: Asked and answered. THE COURT: Overruled. I remember seeing droplets in this area and from Q. If you stand in front of it, it might be easier? A. I won't be blocking anyone? I remember seeing droplets in this area. I specifically, from looking Q. The chipped? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Okay. You can resume -- You can resume your seat. Now, did there come a time when you were dispatched to Rockingham? A. Yes. Q. At -- approximately when was that? A. I was dispatched to go to Rockingham at approximately 8 o'clock Q. And when you arrived at Rockingham, were you given any assignment? A. Yes, I was. I was assigned to protect the location, being advised Q. And when you say protect the Bronco, what Bronco was that? A. There was a white Bronco that was parked in front of the residence Q. Want to place on the board, exhibit 108 and ask, not if you've seen A. Yes, I have. Q. And when did you see that Bronco? MR. P. BAKER: Irrelevant. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: That looks like the Bronco that I saw in front of 360 Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did you have occasion -- strike that. How long did you say you were with or in the vicinity of that Bronco? A. I was in the vicinity of that Bronco throughout the day. There are short periods of time when I stepped away, but my partner Q. Did you have occasion during the morning hours to look into the A. Yes, I did. Q. You said you were there with your partner. Who was your partner? A. My partner was Angela Guzman. Q. You said you had occasion to look into the Bronco. What did you MR. P. BAKER: Relevancy. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: My initial look into the Bronco, I observed a smear on Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Do you remember observing anything else in the A. In the Bronco? Q. Or any other smears of any kind. MR. P. BAKER: Leading. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Initially. No, I didn't. But as it got lighter, I did see Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) And where did you see those additional spots and A. I saw a spot on the front passenger seat, the steering wheel and I Q. And approximately what time was it when you saw this additional A. I'd say that was about an hour, maybe an hour and a half after I Q. About what time would you place that then, Officer Thompson? A. That would be between 9 o'clock and 9:30. MR. MEDVENE: Would you please put up 170? (Photo is displayed.) We've placed before you a photograph that's been marked 170. (The instrument herein described as Photo of Bronco console was marked Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Represent to you that was not taken at that time, MR. BAKER: We haven't agreed to this exhibit, Your Honor. MR. GELBLUM: Yes, I have. MR. MEDVENE: I believe you have. MR. GELBLUM: Stipulated to admissibility. MR. MEDVENE: Admissibility. Stipulated to. MR. PETROCELLI: In the joint trial statement. MR. MEDVENE: Foundation stipulated. It's in the joint trial statement. (The instrument herein described As Photo of Bronco console was Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Could you approach the TV screen, if you would, A. This is the initial smear that I observed. And as it grew lighter, Q. I'm here. If we can take it in parts, then maybe I'll have you mark A. Yes. MR. P. BAKER: This is leading, Judge. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: First observed the area just to the left of marker number As it got lighter, I observed a secondary smear to the rear of the I also observed a spot right here on the driver seat, which isn't To take that back, this is the passenger seat. Q. What you're pointing out, would that be -- would that be, if you're A. That would be about 9 o'clock on the television screen. Q. Now, the various smears that you identified, what did they appear A. It appeared to me to be blood. MR. MEDVENE: Thank you. You may resume your seat. If the Court please, may I approach the witness with the exhibit for THE COURT: You may. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Officer Thompson, I'm placing in front of you, A. I'll try yellow first. THE COURT: Okay. (Witness marks exhibit 170.) Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) You put your initials wherever you put a circle. MR. MEDVENE: May I approach freely, Your Honor? THE COURT: Go ahead. MR. P. BAKER: May I see that, Ed? MR. MEDVENE: Oh, yes. I'm sorry. (Phil Baker reviews exhibit 170.) Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) I'm putting up what is marked 2103 and ask you if (The instrument herein described as marked photo (exhibit No. 170) of THE WITNESS: I circled -- Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) You can leave -- use that if you want. (Indicating to pointer.) A. I circled the initial smear that I observed. And I also circled the Q. That's around the mark 31? A. Yes, sir. And I circled the spot that I saw on the passenger seat which is not Q. All right. Thank you very much, sir. THE REPORTER: What number is that, 2103. MR. MEDVENE: Did there -- MR. PETROCELLI: 2103. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did there come a time when any spots were pointed A. Yes. There were additional, two additional spots that were pointed THE COURT: Excuse me? MR. MEDVENE: We'll withdraw the question. THE COURT: Is the exhibit that this witness was marking 170 or some MR. MEDVENE: The exhibit the witness was marking was 170. The original THE COURT: So are there going to be two exhibits? MR. PETROCELLI: Yes. MR. MEDVENE: Two exhibits the way we understood it, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEDVENE: It was desired that there be different numbers? THE COURT: I saw you take it from the projector and have it worked on Okay. Go ahead. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Officer Thompson. I want to take you now from the A. Yes. Q. And ask if in the early morning hours of June 13, anyone pointed A. One spot was pointed out to me when I initially arrived. Q. And where was that spot? A. That spot was in the street on Rockingham, behind the Bronco. Just Q. And who pointed it out to you? A. That was Detective Fuhrman. Q. Do you know Detective Fuhrman? A. Yes, I do. Q. You worked with him? A. I've never worked a specific assignment with him, but I have worked Q. Now, did you see the one spot that he pointed out to you? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what did that spot appear to be? A. That spot appeared to be blood to me. Q. Now, on your own, shortly thereafter, did you then look around the MR. P. BAKER: Leading. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did you make any observations? A. Yes. Q. And what were those observations? A. I saw additional spots in the driveway. Q. And what did those additional spots appear to be? A. Those spots appeared to be blood. Q. I think the board is difficult for everyone to see. What I'd like Officer Thompson, what I'm going to ask you to do is to approach the And as you describe, I'd like you to describe each picture and what First you see the diagram in the -- in the center of the pictures? A. Yes, I do. Q. And what I'd like to you do is go up to the top picture on the left A. I observed a droplet at this location, behind the Bronco, directly Q. When you say it's depicted, it's depicted how? A. The location is depicted right there. Q. Where the marker is? A. Yes. Q. Was the marker there when you first saw that drop of blood? A. No, it wasn't. Q. Is that the drop of blood pointed out to you by Detective Fuhrman? A. Yes. Q. Now, the other drops of blood you saw, did you find those yourself? A. I did find some drops of blood myself, yes. Q. All right. You've now dealt with the top pictures on the Bronco. A. This is -- this seems to be a photograph that depicts a close-up of (The instrument herein described as Photograph of ground and ruler was Q. There's a red line, appears to be a Bronco. What does that red dot A. It depicts the location in perspective to the entire property here. Q. Now, let's go, if we can, to the picture below it. In other words, A few of the Rockingham entry with what appear to be three cards. A. Yes. Q. We'll put -- we've put 158 on the board. Could you tell us what you (The instrument herein described as Photograph of Rockingham driveway A. I saw droplets in a location of these cards. One droplet for each Q. And what did those droplets appear to be? A. They appear to be blood. Q. Were the cards there when you first saw the blood? A. No. Q. At approximately what time was it you saw that blood and Mr. A. That was when I initially arrived on Rockingham about 8 o'clock, (The instrument herein described as Photograph of Rockingham driveway Q. Let me place up for you, closeups to those three cards, if we can. Let me back up, if I can, Officer Thompson 'cause I don't believe we A. On this diagram, they're depicted here. Q. And when you say "here?" A. Here. I mean just on the outside of the front gate and just beyond Q. Okay. Where we'll go now is, did you observe, early morning hours, A. Yes. I observed two vehicles on the driveway. Q. Was one of the vehicles colored black? A. Yes. Q. Let me direct you to 160, which is approximately 6 o'clock, looking (The instrument herein described as Close-up photo of Rockingham A. This is a photograph of an additional droplet that was seen in that Q. Card B is a close-up? A. Yes. Q. Now if we can move to the right where we have card C and up above A. This is another location in the driveway closer to the garage area THE COURT: A number? MR. MEDVENE: The view of the driveway in the front with the two cards, (The instrument herein described as wide view photo of Rockingham THE COURT: It's the one on the screen right now? MR. MEDVENE: That's 161, Your Honor. MR. MEDVENE: Will you put 162 up, please? We have 162 on the screen now, that's C. Where was -- what is C? (Referring to card on screen.) (The instrument herein described as close-up of Rockingham driveway A. C is a card that depicts the location of two droplets that were Q. Let's go now to the -- to the bottom right. And would you place 163 Can you please describe what that is and where you saw that? (The instrument herein described as photo of Rockingham driveway and A. This is a photo of another droplet which is marked it with card 7. Q. When you say "here?" A. Here. I mean just before the front entrance to the residence. Q. Let's go now, if we can, one picture up. And if you'd please put on Do you recognize 164 to be a distance shot of the card you just (The instrument herein described as Photo of Rockingham driveway and A. Yes. Q. Let's go now one picture up, 165, that's on the right hand side. (The instrument herein described as Photo of Rockingham walkway and A. It's another photograph of a droplet that was found at this Q. Would you put 165 on the board, please? 164 was the closeup and you -- did you point when you were describing Would you put 165, please? Excuse me. 166. I'm sorry. What is 166, top A. That is a photograph, a wide shot of the location of this droplet Q. Thank you very much, Officer Thompson. Any question in your mind A. No question. Q. Thank you very much, sir. You can resume your seat. THE COURT: Take a ten-minute recess, ladies and gentlemen. Don't talk (Brake) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) THE COURT: You may resume. MR. MEDVENE: Thank you, Your Honor. DONALD THOMPSON, the witness on the stand at the time of recess, DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. Officer Thompson, did there come a time on June 13 when you A. Yes. Q. What does "impounding" mean? A. Impounding is, in short, taking the vehicle. Q. Taking it where? A. Taking it to either a tow yard or, in this case, the print shed. Q. What -- approximately what time did you receive instructions to A. That was a little after 3 o'clock that afternoon. Q. And what did you do in connection with those instructions? A. I completed an impound report -- actually, a vehicle investigation Q. And was the vehicle picked up and towed somewhere? A. Yes, the vehicle was picked up. Q. Do you know where it was towed? A. I don't know exactly where it was towed, but there was -- MR. BAKER: Objection. No foundation, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Were there any instructions in connection with the MR. P. BAKER: Hearsay. THE COURT: Overruled. A. Yes, there were. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) What were the instructions? A. To take the vehicle to the print shed. Q. What is the print shed? A. The print shed is a specific location for vehicles that are to be Q. Between the time you arrived at 360 Rockingham a little after 8:00 A. No. Q. About what time was the car towed? A. The car was towed about 3:00, 3:30. Q. Did you observe whether or not the locks on the car were in and A. Yes. The locks seemed to be locked. MR. MEDVENE: I have no further questions. I would move in, if the Court please, 2103 and 155, which is the board THE COURT: Proceed. (The instrument herein described As Exhibit 170 with markings by (The instrument herein described as Copy of poster board containing 11 (The instrument herein described as Photo of gate and ruler was marked (The instrument herein described as Photo of man and Bronco was marked (The instrument herein described as Photo of vehicle interior was (The instrument herein described as Photo of Bronco and curb was (The instrument herein described as Photo of walkway and door was (The instrument herein described As Exhibit 170 with markings by ((The instrument herein described as Copy of poster board containing (The instrument herein described as Photo of gate and ruler was (The instrument herein described as Photo of man and Bronco was (The instrument herein described as Photo of vehicle interior was (The instrument herein described as Photo of Bronco and curb was (The instrument herein described as Photo of walkway and door was MR. MEDVENE: Thank you very much. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. P. BAKER: Q. Morning, Officer Thompson? A. Morning. Q. How are you? A. Doing very well. How are you? Q. Did you arrive at the courthouse first? Did you first come to the courthouse? A. Did I come to the courthouse? Q. Today, did you? A. Yes. Q. First came straight to the courthouse? A. Yes. Q. You didn't go across the street to the Doubletree? A. Yes, I did. Q. Why did you go there, sir? A. I went there to meet one of the lawyers. Q. Which attorney did you meet? A. I met Mr. Petrocelli and his partner. Q. You met both attorneys this morning? A. Yes. Q. How long did you meet with them? A. Oh, I would say about an hour. Q. Were any other officers there? A. There was a detective there. Q. Was that Detective Phillips? A. Yes. Q. Did you go over what questions Mr. Medvene was going to ask you A. Yes. Q. Did you go over some photographs that he showed you today? A. Yes. Q. Did he explicitly show you the photographs that were on the board MR. P. BAKER: My first witness -- I'm going to knock everything over. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Did he show you these photographs, sir? A. Yes, he did. Q. Did he point out where the markers with were on the photographs to A. I pointed those out to him. Q. But he showed them to you; is that correct, sir? A. Referred to photos. Q. Did he show you some photographs of the rear gate at Bundy? A. Yes. Q. Did he show you the photographs which were taken on July 3, 1994? A. Yes. Q. You seem confused. Did he ever tell you that those photographs with the markers 115 and MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Move to strike the comment of counsel. THE COURT: What? MR. MEDVENE: That he seemed confused. THE COURT: The "you seemed to be confused," that's stricken. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Did he tell you that the photographs with the A. Yes. Q. Did he show you the photographs of June 13, 1994 before this A. No. Q. He only showed you the photographs that were taken on July 3 this A. Yes. Q. Okay. You were assigned to the West L.A. Division on June 13, A. Yes, I was. Q. And you were -- your partner was Angela Guzman; is that correct? A. That's correct. Q. Did you fill out daily field activity reports on June 13, 1994? A. Either I did or my partner did. Q. Let me show you a copy of the daily field activities report. MR. P. BAKER: May I approach, Judge? THE COURT: Yes. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Does that look like the daily field activities A. Looks like it's one my partner filled out. Q. Okay. That was to document the activities that you and your partner MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Do you know why portions of that document -- A. I'm sorry. The answer to your last question was yes. MR. P. BAKER: Okay. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Do you know why portions of that document -- This is a new exhibit number. We'll mark it next in order, 2105. MR. BAKER: -05. MR. P. BAKER: -04. (Daily Activities Report dated June 13, 1994 for Officer Thompson, Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Do you know why portions of that report are A. No, I don't. Q. You didn't darken them out, did you? A. No. Q. It reads that you arrived at West Los Angeles Station at A. That's correct. That's for roll call. Q. What unit number were you assigned to? A. I was assigned to 8 Adam 95. Q. And you then proceeded later that day to 874 South Bundy? A. Yes, I did. Q. And if you hold up this document to the light, you can see through A. Yes. That's the 874 -- looks like the location across the street Q. Do you know which officers you relieved at 874 South Bundy on the MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality. THE COURT: Excuse me? MR. MEDVENE: Objection; relevance, materiality, which officers they THE COURT: You asked it on direct. Overruled. A. We didn't relieve any officers at 874; it was 875, which is the Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Okay. A. Rear of 875. Q. So you relieved a couple officers at the rear of 875 South Bundy? A. Yes, I did. Q. Which officers were those, Detective? A. That was officers Moore and Officer Donoway. Q. Okay. And what was their unit number? A. They were assigned to 8 Adam 95. Q. Did you see Detectives or Officers Gonzalez or Ashton at 875 South A. I don't remember seeing them there. Q. They were assigned to 8 Adam 95, as well, that day; is that true? A. I have no idea what they were assigned to. THE COURT REPORTER: Is that eight? MR. P. BAKER: Number 8, Adam 95. THE WITNESS: That's very possible. If they were working the shift Q. That would be at 8 Adam 95; is that true? A. That's possible. Q. I believe you testified you spent the duration of your time at 875 A. For the most part, yes, most of my time was spent in the back. Q. Where else did you go, Officer. A. I went inside the location. Q. Why did you go inside? A. I was asked to. Q. Who were you asked to go inside by? A. Detective Lange. Q. And what did he order you to do? A. He asked me to look for a sheet. Q. What type of sheet? A. He didn't say what type. Q. Did you look for a sheet? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what did you find? A. I found a sheet or blanket upstairs, in a linen hamper, linen Q. Did he tell you what he wanted that sheet for? A. Yes. Q. What was that? A. It was to cover the body of Nicole Simpson. Q. He was asking to you go inside the residence and get a sheet from A. Well, the residence is a part of the crime scene, also. Q. Well, he was asking you to get a blanket and take it where the A. Well, he didn't ask me to take it to the bodies; he asked me to get Q. What was the color of blanket that you got, Officer? A. I'm sorry; ask again. Q. What was the color of the blanket you got? A. White. Q. Did you ever come to an understanding that that white blanket was A. Yes, I did. Q. You'd been an officer for about seven years on June 13, 1994; isn't A. That's true. Q. Did it ever cross your mind that hair and fibers of anybody who had MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) You did come to an understanding that that white MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Misstates the evidence, assumes facts not in THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Where did you park your cars on Bundy Avenue and A. Our car was parked in the rear. Q. Did you ever walk to the front of the residence? A. Yes. Q. And when did you walk to the front of the residence? A. On my initial arrival. Q. How did you get to the front of the residence? A. I drove. Q. You parked your car in the alleyway and then you drove around to A. No; we initially parked in the front of the residence, and shortly Q. Okay. Did you ever walk into the area where the bodies were found? A. Would you rephrase that question? Q. Were you ever within five feet of where the bodies were? A. Yes. Q. Did you have boots on that today? A. No, I didn't. Q. Did you have gloves on that today? A. No, I didn't. Q. Were any criminalists already at the scene when you were five feet A. No. Q. Was the coroner's office there when you were five feet from the MR. MEDVENE: Objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) How long were you around the area of the bodies? A. Oh, maybe about 15 seconds, 20 seconds. Q. And how did you get to that area? A. I walked along the south side of the sidewalk. Q. Through the bushy area? A. In a bushy area, yes. Q. Okay. Did you ever walk on the sidewalk? A. No. Q. Did you ever walk on the walkway to the north of the residence? A. No. Q. Never at all on the morning of June 13, 1994? You walked on the A. Near the bodies, no. Q. Okay. How did you get to the back alley at that point? A. I went to the front, walked to the front, and then I entered my Q. Okay. And where did you park your vehicle? A. At the rear of the location, in the alley, near the driveway. Q. Is that where you met detective Lange? A. Yes. Q. How long did you stay to the rear of the location? A. For the duration of the time; I stayed there up till about 8 Q. How many times did you enter the house? A. Once. Q. How many officers were inside the house? A. When I entered, I don't recollect any officers being there in the Q. Detective Lange may have been inside the house? A. Yes. Q. Were they using the house as a command center, as far as you know? MR. MEDVENE: Objection, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. BAKER: We'll open with this witness on that area. THE COURT: You can open with it when it becomes your turn. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) You got the blanket out of the closet; is that A. It was a linen closet on the second floor. Q. Where was the closet? A. Near a bathroom. Q. Near a bathroom? A. Yes, near a bathroom, and what seemed to be the children's bedroom. Q. So that was upstairs? A. Yes. Q. Did you see any candles in that bathroom? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Scope. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. P. BAKER: We'll open, judge. THE COURT: You can open when you call him as your witness. MR. P. BAKER: I want to save some time and not bring him back down THE COURT: Go ahead. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Did you see if candles were burning, Officer MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality, whether the candles THE COURT: Overruled. A. I didn't answer the first question if I saw candles in the first And the answer to that is no. Q. You never saw candles in the bathroom? A. I don't recollect seeing any candles in the bathroom. Q. Did you ever see water in the bathtub, Officer Thompson? A. I didn't look inside the bathtub, so, no. Q. When you walked inside the house, how did you get to the upstairs A. Walked up some stairs. Q. Did you enter -- I'm sorry; the question was bad. Did you enter through the garage, or did you walk around the walkway? A. I entered through the garage. Q. Did you see an ice cream cup on the bannister of the lower area of A. No. Q. How many times did you enter the condominium, sir? A. One time. Q. And how many times did you walk on the north walkway of the A. I think you need to rephrase that question. Q. What about that question don't you understand? A. You're asking me if I walked along the north walkway. I didn't walk Q. How many times were you on the north walkway on the northern part A. Once. Q. And that was at the rear of the location? A. And that was the rear of the location. Q. In the driveway? A. Not in the driveway, toward the rear fence, the rear gate. Q. Did you walk through the fence? A. A few feet, yes. Q. Who opened the fence for you, or did you open it yourself? A. The fence was open; I didn't touch it. Q. Which way did it open? Did it open towards Bundy, or did it open A. I don't remember how it opened. Q. Who was there when you walked through the fence? A. No one. Q. You were just standing there alone? A. I was there alone in that immediate vicinity, yes. My partner was Q. As far as you know, Angela Guzman, was she able, if she looked, to MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Where was Detective Lange when you walked through A. I don't know. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Did you see any blood -- strike that. There was A. Well, I saw some smears on the mesh. I couldn't decide if it was Q. You could decide that the blood was on the bottom rail; is that A. Yes. Q. I want to show you an exhibit, which is photograph 2102. (The instrument herein described as a photograph of walkway marked for Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Did Ed Medvene or Dan Petrocelli show you a A. No. Q. Didn't tell that you that photograph was taken on June 13, 1994? MR. MEDVENE: Objection, Your Honor. He said he wasn't -- THE COURT: What's the objection? I can't hear you. MR. MEDVENE: The witness has said he wasn't shown the photo this THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) How many blood drops did you see on the bottom A. May I get up and -- Q. You certainly may. A. -- and look closely? Thank you. It's too hard to tell what is in that area. There's too much grain Q. Okay. Well, let me show you a close-up of that photograph, Exhibit How many blood drops do you see on that bottom rail? A. Well, I can't see the entire bottom rail. It looks like this is There's more down here. I'd like to see a photograph that shows -- Okay. (Referring to view screen.) Q. Good enough? A. Yes. (Witness reviews view screen.) Okay. I see a spot here, but I can't tell what that is. Q. That's the only spot you see, correct, Officer Thompson? A. Yes, on this photograph. Q. Thank you. You subsequently -- By the way, did you wear any boots when you were in that -- MR. MEDVENE: Objection. THE COURT: You asked that question already. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) I'm not done. Did you wear any boots when you were on the rear walkway, north A. Near the rear. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Move to strike. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) You then went to 360 North Rockingham; is that A. Yes, I did. Q. You didn't change your clothes at all on the way to 360 North A. No. Q. What time did you arrive at 360 North Rockingham? A. About five minutes after 8:00, 8 o'clock. Q. On your field activities report, the portion that is darkened out MR. P. BAKER: Let me actually show that to Mr. Medvene. I'm sorry. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) First, what does that field activities report say A. States a follow-up from the previous incident on Bundy. Q. Okay. I'm sorry; my question was vague. A. Yes. Q. What was the disposition of what you were to do at 360 North A. Protect a secondary crime scene, start a crime-scene log. Q. Did you start the crime-scene log, Officer Thompson? A. No, I didn't. Q. And you arrived at about 8 o'clock in the morning? A. Little after 8 o'clock, yes. Q. Okay. I want to show you what is marked as Exhibit 200; it's a What time did that crime-scene log say that you arrived at 360 North (The instrument herein described as crime scene police log was marked A. That log states that I arrived at 11:45, which is not true. Q. So that crime-scene log is inaccurate? A. I'm sorry? Say again. Q. That crime-scene log is inaccurate? A. I'm not saying the log is inaccurate; all I'm saying is that -- MR. KELLY: Excuse me, Mr. Baker. Could you please leave it up there Thank you. A. I'm saying that the time depicted beside my unit, 8 Adam 5, which Q. Did you see Detective Fuhrman there before 11:45, Officer? A. Yes. Q. And so with that log, Exhibit 200, that has Detective Fuhrman A. Well, I can't even read the time that it says Detective Fuhrman Q. You would agree that Detective Fuhrman was certainly there before A. Yes, I would say that. Yes. Q. In fact, it was Detective Fuhrman who pointed out the first blood A. Yes. Q. Did it ever cross your mind why Detective Fuhrman was at 360 MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion, argumentative. THE COURT: Jury to disregard that question. The question assumes an argumentative position and it's inappropriate. Please desist from that. MR. P. BAKER: I apologize. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Where were you when you saw the blood smears in A. I was standing just outside of the passenger window when I saw the Q. Okay. And you arrived -- it was sunny there when you arrived at 360 A. The sun was up. Q. In fact, the sun came up on June 13, 1994, at 5:41 a.m.; isn't that A. You have to ask the Farmer's Almanac on that one. (Laughter.) MR. BAKER: I'd like the Court to take a note of that time, sunrise at THE COURT: I don't have any basis. MR. BAKER: I'll give you that, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) You were looking pretty closely inside that A. Yes. Q. You were trying to see whatever you could find inside the Bronco A. That's correct. Q. And you looked to see if the Bronco was locked, correct? A. Yes. Q. Do you remember testifying in the criminal case of People of the A. Versus me? Q. Oh, versus O.J. Simpson. (Laughter.) Q. (MR. P. BAKER) 37549. Do you remember testifying at the criminal trial on July 18, 1995, A. Yes, I do. What line? Q. It's right here at the bottom. I don't have the right page. Lines right here, on 23, 25. Let to me read to you from page 37549, lines 23 through 25. "Q. Do you know whether or not the Bronco was locked? "A. I don't know if it was locked or not." Does that refresh your recollection, Officer? A. That's true. Q. Now, as I understand it, you observed blood on the Bronco console, A. Yes. MR. BAKER: 2103. MR. P. BAKER: It's 2103. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) I was going to show it to you real quick before I A. Okay. (Witness reviews document.) Q. You saw blood on the console, Officer Thompson, or what you A. Yes, I did. Q. And you saw what you believed to be blood on the passenger seat, A. Yes. Q. And how long was it between seeing the initial -- between your A. Well, I'd say within about an hour or so, as it got lighter. Q. And on both occasions, were you looking through the passenger-side A. To obtain this view, yes. Q. Did you look through the Bronco -- through any other windows? A. Yes, through the driver's-side window, also. Q. When did you look through the driver's-side window? A. I looked through the driver's-side window the same time I looked Q. You walked around the front of the Bronco and looked through the A. Yes, I did. Q. Now, there was a number of media there that morning; is that A. When I arrived? Q. Well when you were looking through the Bronco. A. When I arrived, there were two free-lance photographers there. Q. Okay. Were there any camera people there when you arrived? A. Video? Q. Video camera. A. Video camera. Not to my knowledge. Q. When you looked through the Bronco on the second occasion, were A. I'm not sure. Q. All right. Well, you were there from about 8:00 to 3:30 in the A. That is, yes. Q. How many media personnel would you say were there, at a maximum, A. Possibly as many people as in this courtroom. At least. Q. Hundred, 150? A. There were a lot of people there. There were dozens and dozens. Q. And they were pretty unruly, true? A. Some were. Most weren't. Q. Okay. But you had a hard time controlling the media, correct? A. Some, but not all. Q. All right. And what portion of Rockingham were assigned to secure? A. The front entrance. Q. Around the Bronco? A. Yes. Q. All right. And you and Officer Guzman were ordered to secure the A. Yes. Q. Were you able, during your entire time there, capable of preventing A. Myself? Q. Yes. A. For the most part, yes. Q. Well, at one point in the day, you observed coffee cups on the hood A. That's true. Q. And you had to give the coffee cups to a news photographer or news A. I'm sorry; repeat that question. Q. And you -- I'm sorry; it was bad. And you returned the coffee cups to the reporter who had placed them A. Well, I directed the person to the coffee cups that were on the Q. I'm sorry; I didn't hear that. A. I directed them to the Bronco, showing them the cups on it. Q. You didn't give her back the cup of coffee? A. Well -- THE COURT: What's the relevance of this, whether he gave it back to MR. P. BAKER: This is how you secure -- THE COURT: Well, let's get on with it. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Did you see anyone touch the Bronco? A. I saw someone come very close. I couldn't tell if they did touch it At one point. Q. And they walked up to the driver's-side door? A. They ran up to the driver's-side door, took a quick peek, and ran Q. To peer in through the window? A. Yes. Q. I'm just going to throw it on the board, Exhibit 862. Is that the lady running up to the side door of the Bronco? (The instrument herein described as Photo of white vehicle with lady A. Yes. Q. So you're not sure if the Bronco was secure or not on June 13, A. Oh I'm absolutely sure it was secure. Q. Well, people were able to put coffee cups on the Bronco while you A. That's true. Q. And people were able to run up to the side door of the Bronco when A. That's true. Q. At some point during the day, you received orders from Phil A. Oh, yes. Q. What orders did you receive from Phil Vannatter on the morning of A. I was directed to handcuff Mr. Simpson as soon as he arrived. Q. Do you recall specifically Phil Vannatter telling you to handcuff MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Outside the scope, hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. You want to present this at your part of case; do it at your part of MR. P. BAKER: I'll reopen, Judge. THE COURT: No. Plaintiff is putting on their case; you're trying to MR. P. BAKER: I'm trying to save time, Judge. THE COURT: No. That's not going to save time. MR. P. BAKER: Okay. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Of the blood you observed in the Bronco, did you Of the blood you observed in the Bronco, did you take any notes of A. Written notes, no. Q. Did you take any field notes? A. No. Q. Any raw notes? A. No. Q. The blood you observed on the Bundy gate, where -- you believed you A. No, no written notes. Q. No raw notes? A. Good mental notes, though. Q. You were interviewed by Detective Ron Phillips on April 7, 1995 A. That's correct. Q. Did you tell Detective Phillips that you observed what you believed A. No, I didn't. I wasn't asked. Q. Well, he asked you about your observations on June 13, didn't he? A. Yes, he did. Q. Did you tell him about the blood, or what you believed to be blood A. I'm sorry; repeat the question again. Q. Did you tell Detective Phillips on April 7, 1995, of the blood you A. I don't remember if he asked. I'm sure he did. If he didn't, I MR. BAKER: Move to strike as nonresponsive. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. More than one counsel for the same party. THE COURT: Sustained. One at a time. MR. P. BAKER: Move to strike as nonresponsive. THE COURT: No. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Would you like to look at your report, Officer A. Why not? (Witness reviews documents.) Q. Did you get a chance to review that? A. Yes, I did. Q. Is there any mention of any observation of what you believed to be MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. MEDVENE: And lack of foundation, Your Honor. THE WITNESS: No, this is -- THE COURT: Excuse me just a minute. MR. MEDVENE: It's Officer Phillips' report, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) What time did you see what you believe to be A. That was shortly after my arrival. Q. You didn't photograph any of the blood, correct? A. No. Q. You didn't mark any of the blood? A. Mark the blood? Q. You know, put the cards up that are in the photos. A. No. Q. Okay. You didn't collect any of the blood that you identified A. No. Q. Okay. Now, you stated earlier that you saw two blood drops in this A. Yes. Q. Or what appear to be -- what you believe were blood drops? A. Yes. Q. I ask that you mark, sir, what you believe were blood drops, in MR. P. BAKER: What Exhibit is this? MR. BLASIER: 162. MR. P. BAKER: 162. THE WITNESS: With this? MR. P. BAKER: Your highlighter works great. (Witness marks Exhibit 162.) MR. MEDVENE: I'm unclear. Is the witness looking at 162, the blow-up THE COURT: I haven't the faintest. MR. P. BAKER: It's the bottom. MR. PETROCELLI: What Exhibit number? MR. P. BAKER: It's Exhibit 162. It's this photograph which you Why don't you put your initials right here, just for the record. (Witness complies.) MR. P. BAKER: Okay. (Mr. Medvene reviews document marked by witness.) MR. P. BAKER: Your Honor, I'd like to mark this next in order, as MR. BAKER: Five. THE CLERK: Five. MR. P. BAKER: 2105. (Photograph of blood drops at 360 North Rockingham was marked Q. You observed two blood drops in that photograph, Officer Thompson? A. Yes; I observed what appears to be two blood drops in that Q. And the blood drops that you observed which are documented in that A. It's one under the card, C, yes. Q. The other, what you believe to be a blood drop, does not have the A. It doesn't look like it from this photograph. Q. Is the blood drops -- strike that. Which blood drop of Exhibit 2104 -- 2105 is most consistent with the A. May I use the pointer? Q. Sure. A. That one right there. Q. All right. Witness is pointing to the lower blood drop of Exhibit Did that appear to be of the same consistency of the blood you saw, or A. Yes. Q. And did it appear to be the same consistency of the blood you A. For the most part, yes. It looked different because that's a porous Q. Did you ever come to any conclusion on June 13, 1994, where the A. I'm sorry; repeat that. Q. Sure. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Scope, Your Honor. THE COURT: What is the question? MR. P. BAKER: You want me to rephrase it? THE COURT: I would like to hear what the question was. (Record read by the reporter as follows:) "Did you ever come to any conclusion on June 13, 1994, where the THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) You don't see any blood drops going toward the MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Assumes he went to the south side of the THE COURT: I don't think it assumes anything. Overruled. Q. (BY MR. P. BAKER) Did you look for blood on the driveway on June A. Yes. Q. Did you see any blood toward the southern walkway of the residence A. Not near the garage. MR. P. BAKER: I have no further questions. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. Between your arrival at Rockingham about 8 o'clock in the morning, A. No. Q. Did you observe anyone in the Bronco? A. No. Q. Did you ever observe anyone pouring any blood in the Bronco? A. No. Q. Now, you were asked about an object that Detective Lange asked you A. It was a white, tightly knit, very thin blanket, with a light Q. You said it was in a linen closet? A. Yes. Q. Can you describe as best you can the other objects in the closet? Did they appear to be neatly folded and clean or dirty? A. Everything in the linen closet was clean. I saw blankets, MR. MEDVENE: Nothing further. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. P. BAKER: Q. Did you walk by the living room when you walked up to the linen A. I'm sure I did. Yes. Q. Did you inspect the blanket before you brought it downstairs? A. Yes, I did. Q. You looked closely at the blanket? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you look at every corner of that blanket before you brought it A. Every corner? No. I unfolded it to the point where I could make the Q. How long did you inspect the blanket, sir? A. Maybe about -- maybe about ten seconds. MR. BAKER: Nothing further. We'd like to keep this witness. MR. MEDVENE: Nothing further. THE COURT: You may step down; we'll keep you on call. Ten-minute recess, ladies and gentlemen. MR. BAKER: Subject to recall, Your Honor? THE COURT: That's what I said. MR. BAKER: I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. (Recess.) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) THE COURT: You may call your next witness. MR. MEDVENE: Detective Phillips. RON PHILLIPS, called as a witness on behalf of Plaintiff Goldman, was THE CLERK: You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in THE WITNESS: I do. THE CLERK: Please be seated. And would you please state and spell your THE WITNESS: Ron Phillips, R-O-N, P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. What's you're occupation and assignment? A. A police officer for the city of Los Angeles, currently assigned as Q. And how long have you been a police officer? A. Approximately 29 years. Q. How long have you been a detective? A. Since 1976. Q. What are your duties as homicide coordinator for West Los Angeles? A. I'm in charge of the homicide unit. I oversee the cases that are Q. How long have you been assigned to West Los Angeles? A. 1989. Q. Let me take you to early morning hours of June 13, 1994, if I A. Yes, I did. Q. And from whom? A. Sergeant Rossi. Q. And what was said in that phone call? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) As a result of that phone call, did you take any A. Yes, I did. Q. And what action did you take? A. I made phone calls to individuals that worked the West Los Angeles Q. And approximately what time did you start making those phone calls? A. I received the phone call at about 1'o'clock in the morning on June Q. Who were the three detectives? A. I called Mark Fuhrman, Brad Roberts, and Tom Lange. Q. And where were you -- were each of those detectives, if you know, A. I found all three of those detectives to be home in their Q. Did you have any conversation with each of the detectives? A. Yes. Q. And what did you tell him? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. MEDVENE: Court please, I asked: "What did he say?" THE COURT: Okay. Overruled. He's here to be cross-examined. MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, it's still hearsay, Your Honor. THE COURT: It's not being offered for the truth of the matter THE WITNESS: I told each one of them that we had a double homicide. I Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Were any of the detectives, to your knowledge, A. I think they all were. Q. Did any of the detectives ask if they -- you could get other MR. LEONARD: Objection. Relevance. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. LEONARD: Move to strike the question, Your Honor. THE COURT: It's stricken. I don't know what the relevance of all of MR. MEDVENE: All right, Your Honor. THE COURT: Really, more than things in case. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did there come a time when you met with any of the A. Yes. I arrived at West Los Angeles about 1:50 in the morning. I met Q. And did you and Detective Fuhrman ride somewhere? A. Yes. I went out and picked up the homicide vehicle that was Q. And when you arrived, did you speak with anyone? A. I arrived. I first noticed Sergeant Dave Rossi was the watch Q. Who did he direct you to? A. Officer Bob Riske. Q. Did you request a walk through of the Bundy scene? A. Yes, I did. Q. Prior to starting that walk through, did you have any phone A. Sergeant Rossi was on the phone with an individual at the time I Q. And at the end of your -- did you speak with Commander Bushey? A. Yes, I did. Q. At the end of your conversation with Commander Bushey, what was MR. LEONARD: Objection. Calls for hearsay. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: He wanted to know if we had the resources at West Los And he again asked me if we had the resources. I said I don't know. I And then he said that it turned out to be the wife or the former wife Q. Shortly thereafter, did you commence your walk-through? A. Yes. Officer Riske took me on a walk-through. MR. MEDVENE: May I approach, Your Honor, to put up a chart? THE COURT: All right. MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, may I go over to that side of the courtroom? THE COURT: Sure. MR. LEONARD: Thank you. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Detective Phillips, if you wouldn't mind, could A. Well, the original walk-through that I took with Officer Riske went Q. And what did you see? A. When we walked up, Sergeant or Officer Riski started pointing out He then told me that behind Mr. Goldman there was a set of keys laying Q. What was the source of light that was utilized to look at the A. It -- well, there was a much more light on at the front door of the This area down in here was relatively still dark, and it was early in Q. How full were the flashlights in terms of the illumination they A. Well, I have a mag light. A mag light, which I don't remember the Q. How would you describe the lighting conditions in terms of your A. With the aid of the flashlight, we could see everything that was Q. Where was Officer Fuhrman when Officer Riske was pointing out to A. He was standing behind me. We approached this location where the Q. Did you see a second glove? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: I just saw one glove, sir. That -- the glove underneath Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Now, after the observations that you made and A. We walked. MR. BAKER: Objection. Calls for narrative. THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead. THE WITNESS: I walked out the same way that I had walked in, back out Riske had pointed out several portions where there was blood that they I then walked southbound on Bundy to a street called Dorothy and made Q. Who was with you? A. Officer Riske and Detective Fuhrman. Q. What did you then do? A. When I arrived at the back, Officer Riske pointed out a black jeep He then showed me, I believe it was a dime and a penny that was laying Q. How far did you walk down the walkway? A. We didn't walk very far. We walked a short ways and I said is there Q. What did you then do? A. He then took us to the garage door which was open. There was a Q. Then what did you do? A. As we walked in the back door, Officer Riske pointed out an ice We walked up the steps into the kitchen area, through the kitchen Q. Did you notice any bloody footprints of any kind inside the house? A. No, I did not. MR. LEONARD: Objection, Your Honor. Relevance. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. MEDVENE: Did you notice any evidence of ransacking of any kind MR. LEONARD: Same, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: No. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) So you're to the point, I think, Detective A. Yes. Q. Okay. Again, who was with you at that point and what do you do? A. Officer Riske was leading. I was following him and Detective Q. Not by these steps. You're pointing to the steps that are shown in A. Yes, there's a landing area up here and then these steps lead down Q. Then what do you do? A. From that location with the aid of the flashlights, Detective or Q. Again, did you see a second glove? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: The only gloves I ever saw that day, sir, at the Bundy Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Again, when these observations were being made up A. We were all very closely knit together, standing there and Q. After you made this next observation that you told us about, what A. He then said that there was footprints. Officer Riske then said Q. I'm sorry. If you can hold for a minute? A. Sure. Q. I place before you what's been marked 2059. It's titled 875 south A. Well, this area up in here is the landing I was referring to, We then walked back this walkway here, leading westbound on the north Q. And how far back did you go? A. I walked with the other two officers all the way to the back gate. Q. Now, did you, at that time or earlier on the first trip, observe MR. LEONARD: Objection, Your Honor. Compound and leading or he's THE COURT: Rephrase it. MR. LEONARD: -- What he did before. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did you make any observation of the back gate? A. Yes, I did. Q. And what did you see? A. I -- two droplets of blood were pointed out to me. Than on the Q. Now, what did Officer Riske and Detective Fuhrman and yourself then A. At that time, we walked back out to the alley and Detective or Q. And then what did you do? A. I then exited the house with Officer Riske and Detective Fuhrman, Q. By this gate, it's the top most picture in what I had identified as Is that the gate in the rear picture? (The instrument herein described as diagram of Bundy walkway was (The instrument herein described as copy of board showing the envelope A. We walked out this gate, out the driveway and out into the alley. Q. All right, sir. And what did you do in the alley? A. As I walked out into the alley, I was met by my commanding officer, Q. Did you have a conversation with Lieutenant Spangler? A. Yes. MR. LEONARD: Could we have a yes or no? Thank you. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did you also, at that time, have a conversation A. Sergeant. Q. With Sergeant Rossi? A. Yes. Q. As a result of those conversations, was a decision made as to MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, calls for hearsay. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Yes. Q. And what determination was made? A. Lieutenant Frank Spangler, my commanding officer, informed me that MR. LEONARD: I didn't hear the last part of the answer? THE WITNESS: Which I did. MR. LEONARD: Before that. THE WITNESS: He asked me to get in touch with commanding officer of MR. LEONARD: Thought I heard something about notification. No, I want THE COURT: Well, the -- have the -- would you like to have it read? (The reporter read back requested portion as follows:) "A. Lieutenant Frank Spangler, my commanding officer, informed me that MR. LEONARD: Thank you, very much, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) At the time of the conversations with Lieutenant A. Yes. We were all standing there at the same time. Q. As a result of your speaking with Lieutenant Spangler and Sergeant A. Yes, I did. Q. And who did you call? A. The first phone call I made was to detective, head quarters Q. Did you obtain the number? A. Yes, I did. Q. Did you call him? A. I called Captain Gartland at his residence. Q. What did you say? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Hearsay. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Told him where I was. Told him what I had been shown, Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Any discussion about the amount of man power MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. MEDVENE: Recall any further discussion at this time with Captain MR. LEONARD: Objection. Asked and answered. THE COURT: You can answer yes or no. THE WITNESS: He told me to do something else. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) What did he tell to you to do? A. Told me to get in touch with Lieutenant John Rodgers who was the Q. Did you do that? A. Yes. Q. You called Lieutenant Rodgers? A. Yes. Q. And what did you say? A. Told him the same thing I had told Captain Gartland and told him Q. What did you then do? A. I then walked into the residence where Mark Fuhrman and Brad Q. And what did Detective Roberts and Fuhrman do? A. Fuhrman at this time was taking notes. Writing some notes down. He And the three of us then left the residence and he handed me his notes Q. Did he do that? A. Yes, he did. Q. What did you then do? A. Walked southbound out of the alley to Dorothy and eastbound on Q. What occurred then? A. Basically it had already been told to everybody that Q. And you were waiting for the robbery/homicide detectives to arrive? A. That's correct. MR. MEDVENE: Court please, would this be a convenient time to break? THE COURT: 1:30, ladies and gentlemen. Don't talk about the case. (At 11:55 A.M. a recess was taken until Monday, October 29, 1996 A.M. SANTA MONICA, CALIFORNIA TUESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 1996 1:40 P.M. DEPARTMENT NO. WEQ HON. HIROSHI FUJISAKI, JUDGE (Jurors resume their respective seats.) THE COURT: You may proceed. RON PHILLIPS, previously called as a witness was sworn and testified DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONTINUED) BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. Good afternoon. A. Good afternoon. Q. Were Detectives Roberts, Noland and Fuhrman all under your A. Yes, they were. Q. You said at the break that you're all standing outside waiting for A. Well, the double homicide that occurred in West Los Angeles Once they arrived, I instructed them to stay. I would talk to Q. Approximately what time was it when you were all together outside A. Well, possibly 2:45, 2:50, somewhere in that vicinity. I think I Q. What time was it that Detective Vannatter arrived, approximately? A. Detective Vannatter arrived at 4:05 in the morning. Q. What transpired between 2:45, 2:50, whenever it was, when you're A. Well, the crime scene was basically secured. The officers all on And then we waited at that location until robbery/homicide showed up. Q. Now, when detective -- strike that. Was Detective Fuhrman, to your knowledge, during this period of time MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, lack of foundation. THE COURT: If you know. THE WITNESS: Standing in the street with me. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Now, when Detective Vannatter arrived, what A. I introduced myself to him. I'd never met him before. Explained to Q. Did you do that? A. Yes, I did. Q. And approximately how long did the walk-through take? A. Approximately 10 minutes. Q. And after the walk-through, what occurred next? A. We walked -- I walked with Detective Vannatter back to Bundy and Q. Did there came come a time his partner arrived? A. Yes. Detective Tom Lange arrived at the same location at 4:25 in Q. And what occurred when Detective Lange arrived? A. Detective Vannatter, Detective Lange had a short conversation. Then Q. And on the walk-through of both Detective Vannatter and Lange, did A. Yes. Q. Now after the walk-through with Detective Lange, did there come a A. I had first mentioned to Detective Vannatter when we were waiting Q. That you had been instructed to do that? A. To make a personal notification to Mr. Simpson. Q. Now, did the fact that Mr. -- You had worked west L.A. for a number A. Since 1989. Q. Did the fact Mr. Simpson was a celebrity, in your opinion, have MR. LEONARD: Objection. Irrelevant. Lack of foundation. Calls for THE COURT: Overruled. State of mind of this witness. THE WITNESS: Commander Bushey had instructed me to do that because of MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, I move to strike that "Mr. Bushey said." THE COURT: It's stricken as nonresponsive. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Strike what Commander Bushey felt. In your opinion of having worked West L.A. division, was the personal MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, objection. Irrelevant. THE COURT: In the form that it is stated, I don't see -- I don't MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, if he's going -- I ask that we approach the MR. MEDVENE: If we might. THE COURT: Why don't you just ask whether or not this was unusual. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Was it unusual? (Laughter.) A. It was not unusual and that I made a notification. It was unusual Q. And did that, in your judgment, from your understanding of how west MR. LEONARD: Objection, Your Honor. Irrelevant. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Was it unusual? MR. LEONARD: Objection. THE COURT: He just stated why it's unusual. I sustain my own MR. LEONARD: I had one too. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) When was a determination made to go to Rockingham? A. Shortly before 5:00 in the morning. Q. And were you present when that determination was made? A. Yes. The four of us, Vannatter, Lange Fuhrman and I were all MR. LEONARD: Objection, Your Honor. Nonresponsive. Hearsay. THE COURT: Answer's stricken. MR. MEDVENE: Can you tell us what you said? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. MEDVENE: What was your understanding of the purpose you were going MR. LEONARD: Objection. Asked and answered irrelevant. THE COURT: Overruled. You asked me to strike it, I struck his answer. MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, if I may be heard. THE COURT: What? MR. LEONARD: You ruled it was irrelevant. I thought that was the basis THE COURT: I don't want to conduct your examination, counsel but you MR. MEDVENE: I asked him -- yes, I want to ask him, Your Honor, if you THE COURT: What is it you want to ask him? MR. MEDVENE: I want to ask him, Your Honor, what was his understanding THE COURT: What difference does it make what his understanding was. THE WITNESS: Went to Rockingham to notify Mr. Simpson about the death MR. MEDVENE: How long did you expect to be at Rockingham when -- At the time you left Bundy, what functions did you intend to perform MR. LEONARD: Objection. Asked and answered. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. MEDVENE: Did you intend to assist Mr. Simpson in retrieving his MR. LEONARD: Objection. Asked and answered and leading. THE COURT: Sustain as leading. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) When you went -- Strike that. Can you tell us what, if anything, your going to Rockingham had to do MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: I'll sustain it. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) When you went to Rockingham, did you go for any A. Yes. Q. What was that purpose? A. Mr. Simpson's children were at West Los Angeles station. I was Q. And who was going to do that? A. Detective Fuhrman and myself. Q. And while you were doing that, what was your understanding of what MR. LEONARD: Objection. Calls for speculation. THE COURT: Form that it's asked, sustained.. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Approximately what time did you -- strike that. Who was left in charge of the Bundy crime scene at the time you and MR. LEONARD: Objection. Irrelevant. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Lieutenants John Rodgers who is a Lieutenant in charge of Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) And how long, if you know, was it anticipated that MR. LEONARD: Calls for speculation. THE COURT: Overruled. A. They figured that they would return to Bundy in ten or 15 minutes. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) What was your understanding of what they were A. When they returned, sir? Q. No, excuse me. What was your understanding of what they were going A. They wanted to talk to Mr. Simpson. They said they wanted to talk Q. Approximately what time did you arrive at Rockingham? A. About 5:05. Q. Did you make, did you or the other detectives make any attempt from A. Yes. Q. What attempts were made? A. I rang the gate buzzer on the Ashford side of the property. I rang Q. Did you make any attempt to obtain the phone number of the A. Yes. I noticed a Westec patrol sign on the property so I called the Q. Did there come a time when you obtained the number for the Simpson A. Yes, I did. Q. And did you make a phone call? A. Yes, I did. Q. Detective Phillips placed on the board what's been marked 115. And (The instrument herein described as copy of phone records of Ron THE WITNESS: May I get up an approach it, Your Honor? THE COURT: You may. THE WITNESS: Its evening that this was taken place. I was using my own Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) And does that phone bill indicate what time you A. Yes, it does. It's 5:36 in the morning. Q. Now, what was your understanding as of that time. Oh, strike that. A. No. I did. Well, there was an answering machine with a prerecorded Q. As of that time, what was your understanding whether or not anyone A. Westec had no knowledge that anybody had been or had left that Another Westec officer informed us that the property, Mr. Simpson Q. As far as you knew, there were two people in the house? MR. BAKER: Objection. THE WITNESS: I didn't know if anyone was in the house. Q. (BY MS. MEDVENE) Now, at that point in time, did you have any MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Was it -- was a decision made to go into the A. Yes, it was. Q. And what was the purpose of doing that? A. It was a decision made by Vannatter and Lange to go over the wall Q. And why was that? A. They were concerned that someone's safety, about something Q. Detective Phillips, we've put on the board what's been marked 116. (The instrument herein described as diagram of Rockingham property was MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, may I move over here? Thank you. THE WITNESS: When I drove up -- drove on up on Rockingham avenue, made Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) One second. When you say around this area here, a A. No. This is the driveway that goes into the residence. We were west Q. All right, sir. Go ahead. A. This is the intercom that I approached and pushed the button on and Q. Then? A. Well, then I stood out in the street making my phone call to Q. Okay. What happened next? A. I then obtained the phone number from the house from the Westec Q. What occurred then? A. A Westec Sergeant then arrived northbound on Rockingham and parked Q. What occurred then? A. We then stood in this area here. I was on my cell phone. And I said "Fine." And at this point, right here is where Mark Fuhrman jumped the fence, Q. What did you then do to attempt to obtain entrance to the house? A. I walked up to the front entrance of the house, which was right Nobody answered. I believe another officer may have rang the doorbell, and nobody I then walked back out onto the driveway, along with the other three And I believe it was Detective Phil Vannatter that knocked on these Q. Were you able to find someone that let you into the house, to try A. Eventually, we did. Q. And when you say "eventually" you did, who assisted you in gaining A. Arnelle Simpson, Mr. Simpson's daughter, who was living in this Q. Now, prior to her allowing you to go into the house, had anyone A. Yes. I knocked on the door at Kato Kaelin's room here first, And immediately after that, the door was opened up by Mr. Kaelin. Q. And did you then proceed with Detectives Lange and Vannatter to A. Yes. She told us where Ms. Arnelle Simpson was, and then she took Q. Did someone remain with Mr. Kaelin? A. I believe Detective Fuhrman did. Q. Now, when Ms. Simpson went into the main house to try to find Mr. A. She took us to the maid's quarters, which was just off the kitchen. Q. And what did you observe there? A. There was no one in that room; the bed was completely made, and the Q. Was any call made in an attempt to find where Mr. Simpson might be? A. Yes. Q. And who was called, if you know? A. Arnelle Simpson called Cathy Randa, who was Mr. Simpson's Q. As a result of that call, did you find out where Mr. Simpson was? A. Yes, I did. Q. And where was he? A. He was in Chicago. Q. Did you then attempt to get in contact with Mr. Simpson? A. Yes, I did. Q. I've put up 117. And I ask if you reached Mr. Simpson in Chicago? (The instrument herein described as phone record of Ron Phillips call A. Yes, I did. Q. And approximately what time was that? A. 6:05 in the morning. Q. What is 117, if you know? A. I believe that's the phone bill of the Simpson residence. Q. Now, when you reached him in Chicago, what did you initially say? A. I called the desk, asked for Mr. O.J. Simpson's room. They rang a number, and a male answered the phone. And I asked him if And I told him I was Detective Phillips from the Los Angeles Police Q. What did you then say? A. I told him that his ex-wife, Nicole, had been killed. And he immediately said, "Oh, my God! Nicole is killed!" He said, "Oh, Q. Did he ask you if you were sure it was his wife? A. No, he didn't. Q. Did he ask you how you knew it was Nicole? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: No. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did he ask you how she died? A. No. Q. Did he ask if it was a traffic accident? A. No. Q. Did he ask if she'd fallen? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did he ask any questions about how she died? A. No, he didn't. Q. Did he ask any questions about where she died? A. No, he didn't. Q. Did he ask any questions about the circumstances of her death? MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: No. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) How many death notifications have you given, A. I'm Detective Phillips. Q. I'm sorry. How many death notifications have you given, Detective Phillips, over A. Several hundred. Q. In your experience, do people who receive such a notification MR. LEONARD: Objection, Your Honor. Leading, lack of foundation, THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: There's initial shock when I tell them. Then they always Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Were any of those questions asked by Mr. Simpson? A. No. MR. LEONARD: Objection. Asked and answered. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Now, after the conversation with -- strike that. Do you recall anything else Mr. Simpson said in the phone call? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us? A. Well, I tried to get him to calm down and listen to me. He eventually calmed down, and I told him that we had his children at And he immediately said, "What do you have my children at the police I told him we had no place to take them; they were in our custody. And he said, "I'm taking the first flight out of Chicago. I'm coming He said, "I want to talk to her." So I handed the phone to Arnelle. Q. Now, did you have any further conversation with Mr. Simpson at that A. No, sir. Q. Now, shortly thereafter, did you have occasion to see Mark Fuhrman? A. Yes. Q. Can you tell us the circumstances? A. After I got off the phone with Mr. Simpson, Tom Lange talked to Q. And what did he say to you, if anything? A. He said that he wanted to show me something, that he had found Q. And did you? A. Yes, I did. Q. Placed on the board is what's been marked 145. And I ask you if (The instrument herein described as diagram of four photos A. These are the doors I'm referring to. The kitchen is right in this These are the doors that Mark Fuhrman had walked out of and walked Q. Okay. And where did you walk? A. I followed Mark out into the driveway around the garage and walked Q. When you say "this picture here," that's the picture furthest to Would you describe that for us? (The instrument herein described side view of Rockingham property was A. This is the picture of the walkway to the south of the Simpson Q. We're also -- for everyone, he's putting the picture up on the TV Which one did you want me to use? Maybe the TV monitor would be easier. A. Yes. And he walked me back to this air conditioner that sticks out of the Q. Would you go to 148, which is the second picture on the chart. And again, that's up on the monitor, if that's helpful for you. (The instrument herein described as walkway and sideview of Rockingham A. This is the object that he had pointed out to me. Q. You say this is the object. Could you just describe where you're A. This right here is the -- which is in this picture, also. It's a Q. At a later time, do you have any knowledge of whether or not an A. I was not there when that was done. Q. All right. After you had observed the glove and Mr. Fuhrman pointed it out, how A. I think I got within maybe three or four feet of it, at the most. Q. What did you do and what did Detective Fuhrman do? A. After looking at it, I told him, I said, "Let's go back to the Which we did; we returned back to the house. Q. And do you know if Detective Fuhrman showed Detective Lange and or A. He showed them both. Q. Now, after each of you was shown the glove in the area where the A. There was a short conversation between Vannatter and Lange and Q. Did you and Detective Fuhrman leave Rockingham for Bundy? A. Yes. Q. At approximately what time did you leave Rockingham? A. Possibly about 6:25, because I arrived back at Bundy at 6:30. Q. And could you tell us what happened when you arrived back at Bundy? A. We exited our car. I walked up to Lieutenant Spangler with my Mark said he was going to go over and take a look at the other glove. And I said, "Take a photographer with you, and make sure you And, at which time he went over and got Mr. Rokahr, the photographer, MR. MEDVENE: I'll place on the board which has been marked Exhibit 40. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) I ask if you know what that is. A. That's a photograph of Mark Fuhrman's hand pointing to the glove Q. And when was that taken? A. It was taken shortly after we arrived back at Bundy. Possibly 6:35, somewhere in that area? Q. I've placed on the board, please. THE COURT: Mr. Medvene, you're referring to the board constantly, and MR. MEDVENE: Yes, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) We were just looking at Exhibit 40 on the TV Would you please put up Exhibit 92 on the TV monitor. Tell us what's depicted in Exhibit 92. A. This gentleman here is Detective Mark Fuhrman. He's pointing to the Q. Is that the same overview of the same photo? A. Yes, it appears to be. Q. Now, what did Detective Fuhrman then do, to your knowledge? A. Detective Fuhrman walked back to me and told me that he thought it MR. LEONARD: Objection. Move to strike as nonresponsive. He asked what THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Did Detective Fuhrman, shortly thereafter, to your A. Yes, he did. Q. And where was he going, to your knowledge? A. He informed me he was going to Rockingham. Q. Now, how do you remember that the picture was taken at the A. Because that's the time we returned from Rockingham. We returned Q. Did you have your cell phone with you, or had you lent it to A. I had my personal cell phone all day. Q. Had you LENT your cell phone to anyone at the Bundy scene? A. I may have let someone use it to make a phone call if an officer Q. About how long after the photo being taken did you leave Bundy? A. Did I leave Bundy? I didn't leave Bundy. Q. You stayed at Bundy for how long? A. I possibly stayed at Bundy until well after 10 o'clock, 10:30. Q. Okay. I just have one last area. I place before you, 126. Unfortunately, it won't work too well on the TV screen. Could you describe what Exhibit 126 is? (The instrument herein described as ten page document showing A. Yes. Detective Vannatter and Detective Lange had called me up at And I was to take photographs of the soles and heels of each officer's MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, I move to strike as irrelevant. I didn't get THE COURT: Overruled. MR. MEDVENE: Exhibits 115, 116, 117, 145, 147, and 148, I believe, are THE COURT: What's 126. MR. MEDVENE: 126 are the photographs the witness just testified about, MR. BAKER: Objection. Foundation, Your Honor. MR. LEONARD: Same objection. THE COURT: Sustained as to foundation. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Who took those photos? A. I did. Q. And there's -- could you describe Exhibit 1, what's on the exhibit? A. Well, that's an officer's name on each Polaroid photograph. And And they were all taken on the table -- this is a table in the Q. We can go through them one at a time, but to save time, do the THE COURT: You don't want further foundation? MR. LEONARD: No, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MR. MEDVENE: We move in 126. THE COURT: Received. (The series of photographs previously marked Plaintiffs' Exhibit 126 MR. MEDVENE: Nothing further. Thank you very much. THE COURT: Ten-minute recess. Ladies and gentlemen, don't talk about the case; don't form or express (Recess.) (Jurors resume their respective seats.) MR. BAKER: Your Honor, we agreed that sunrise was at 5:42 in the THE COURT: Okay. MR. BAKER: Stipulated between all parties. MR. PETROCELLI: Yes. MR. LEONARD: May I examine, Your Honor? THE COURT: You may. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. LEONARD: Q. Good afternoon. My name is Dan Leonard; I represent O.J. Simpson. A. Good afternoon. Q. Detective Phillips, was it your intention when you took the stand A. Yes, sir. Q. And what steps, if any, did you take in order to accomplish that A. I reviewed my transcript of the trial. I had one or two meetings That's basically all I've done. Q. You had a meeting last night over at the Doubletree Hotel with the A. No. Q. Did you have a meeting at any time recently at the Doubletree Hotel A. Other than meeting them there this morning, that's the first time Q. I'm sorry; I misspoke. When you met them this morning, Officer Thompson was also there; is A. Yes. Q. And you went over with the plaintiffs' attorneys, the questions you A. This morning? Q. Yeah. A. Not really. Q. What did you do this morning? A. I looked at a photograph. Q. Okay. Which photograph was that, sir? A. It was a photograph of the north -- the east-west walkway on the Q. Were you there when the plaintiffs' attorneys were showing Officer A. No. Q. You weren't present at all? A. I didn't see anything that they were showing him. Q. Were you present when they were interviewing or discussing anything A. No; I believe they left. I was eating breakfast in the restaurant, Q. So, you weren't present for those discussions? A. No, sir. Q. What else did you do? You said you reviewed your transcript from the criminal trial, right? A. Yes. Q. You met with the plaintiffs' attorneys on what, two occasions, A. Two or three occasions. Q. Did you meet with any investigators for the plaintiffs at any time? A. There's an investigator named Otis Marlow that has come by the Q. And Otis Marlow is a former LAPD officer, correct? A. Yes, he is. Q. And he had some involvement in the Simpson case, did he not? A. I don't know what involvement he had in the case. Q. So if he did, you don't know, right? I'll withdraw the question. A. He -- okay. You withdraw it, so I'm going to withdraw my answer. Q. Excuse me? A. You withdrew the question, So I'm not going to answer it. Q. Fine. A. Okay. Q. Did you at any time meet with a fellow named Tippin, an A. I don't recall the name. Q. Tippin was an LAPD officer who worked in this investigation. A. Tippin. I thought you said Tippet. Q. Tippin. A. Tippin. I don't recall meeting him. I may have talked to him on the phone. Q. When you talked to him, it was after Mr. Simpson's acquittal, A. I believe so. Q. He represented to you that he was an investigator for the A. That's why I would have talked to him. Q. And he had some role in the investigation, correct, of Mr. Simpson A. I have no idea what role he had. He works out of downtown, sir. I Q. When is it that you last reviewed your transcript from the criminal A. Possibly looked at some of it last night. Q. Okay. And in particular, did you look at the section that dealt A. I looked at that in the transcript, and I also viewed that in the Q. Okay. When you're referring to a document you prepared, you're A. Yes, sir. Q. By the way, that's the only report that you made involving your A. That's correct. Q. You didn't make any report about any observations of blood or A. That's correct. Q. So when you were testifying today about observations you made, that A. That's correct. Q. Prior to the criminal trial, sir, did you make sure that you A. To the best of my knowledge, I did. Q. That's something that you would do in a double-homicide case, isn't A. Something I'd do in any homicide. I like to prepare myself before I Q. Well, the case was special, wasn't it, sir? A. Only to the news media. Q. Well, it was on national television, wasn't it? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality. THE COURT: I'm going to allow you sufficient leeway, but don't overdo MR. LEONARD: I hear you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Thank you. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) When you had your meeting with the plaintiffs' Did you go over that in particular? A. No. My discussion this morning was over breakfast. And I looked at Q. So your testimony is that the only thing you discussed was one A. That's correct. Q. And nothing else? A. Not this morning. Q. Now, on prior occasions when you have met with plaintiffs' A. Yes. Q. Okay. And have you always told them the same version that you told A. I'd like to think I've told it the same way every time, except for Q. Well, can you think of any words right now that you didn't tell A. No. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Compound. He's asking him to recall -- THE COURT: The answer can be yes or no. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Can you think of any? A. Would you repeat the question. Q. Yes. Can you think of any words that Mr. Simpson spoke to you or you spoke A. No. Q. -- or this afternoon? A. I can't think of any offhand. Q. You have made public appearances with the Goldman family; is that A. I don't believe so. Q. Have you ever appeared, or have you ever attended any kind of A. No, I have not. Q. You've had discussions with Mr. Goldman since the acquittal; is A. Other than to say hi to him and how are you doing, and hope your Q. Do you feel like your testimony has been not colored at all by any A. Today? Q. Yeah. A. Sir, I got up here and testified to what I believe I remembered, Q. And again, you had the benefit of reviewing your transcript this A. I didn't review my transcript this morning. I may have looked at a Q. Well when? A. Most of it was done last night. Q. Okay. You feel like you did an author's review? A. I didn't read it all, no. There was too much of it. Q. Didn't bother to read it all? A. Well, I tried to read it all, but I have other cases to do, also. Q. Now, Mr. Medvene had asked you a number of questions about your Your telephone discussion on the 13th, for instance, he asked you if A. Yes. Q. And -- well, isn't it true that Mr. Simpson asked you repeatedly, Do you are remember that? A. He wasn't asking me -- he was talking on the telephone, going, "Oh, Q. Well, who else was on the telephone? A. He wasn't talking to me; he was talking to himself. I was Q. Did he or did he not say to you repeatedly, "What do you mean, Didn't he say that to you? A. He asked me that one time, yes. Q. Didn't he say it repeatedly? A. No. Q. Do you remember testifying at the criminal trial with regard to "Q. So you never responded to Mr. O.J. Simpson's request, 'What do you And it is your statement that he was upset at this point; was he not? "A. Yes, he was." Do you remember giving that answer to that question? A. Okay. Q. Do you? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Next: "Q. And you expected -- and then he went to say, 'Oh, my God, Nicole "A. Yes, he did. Do you remember that? A. Yes. "Q. At some point, didn't you try to get him to get hold of himself "A. Yes, I did. "Q. And he kept repeating himself, 'she's been killed? What do you "A. That's correct. Did you give those responses to those questions at the criminal trial, A. Yes. Q. Okay. So, in fact, Mr. Simpson did say to you over and over again, A. He said that, yes. Q. And is there any reason in particular why you didn't tell that to A. Well, he said that, and then he said, "Oh, my God, Nicole's been Q. My question, sir, is: Is there any reason in particular you failed A. I answered the questions to the best of my recollection today. Q. Oh. Well, did you read that part of the transcript when you were reviewing A. I answered the questions to the best of my recollection today. If I Q. All right. But you would agree that your recollection back then was A. Yes, it is. Q. -- wouldn't you? And you also prepared a report about this discussion, didn't you? A. Yes, I did. MR. LEONARD: May I approach? THE COURT: (Nods affirmatively.) MR. LEONARD: Thank you. This is Exhibit -- the next number. MR. PETROCELLI: What number is that? MR. LEONARD: What number? MR. BAKER: Should be 2106, I believe. MR. P. BAKER: Yes. (The document herein described as A statement made by Detective THE COURT: Jurors, hello. You don't compare notes. If you've got questions, you ask the Court. You're not to discuss what you're writing down on your notes. Okay. Everybody understand that? JURORS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: All right. MR. LEONARD: May I, Your Honor? THE COURT: You may. MR. LEONARD: Thank you. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) I show you what's been marked as 2106. And take your time and look at it; tell me what it is. A. It's a statement I made about the conversation of Mr. Simpson on Q. That's a written report that was made when, sir? A. Typed report. Q. Excuse me. Typed report? A. 6/13/94. Q. It was made the same day, right? A. That's correct. Q. You certainly would agree that your memory, as memorialized in that A. Much better. Q. Much better? A. Much better. Q. Now, I want you to read, if you will -- I think it's seven -- A. Just that paragraph? Q. No, down to the bottom of the page. A. I obtained the O'Hare Plaza Hotel phone number from information and I asked for the room of Mr.` O.J. Simpson. I was connected, and a male I advised Mr. Simpson that I was Detective Ron Phillips of the Los Mr. Simpson replied, "What do you mean, she has been killed? Oh, my Q. Thank you, sir. A. I tried -- MR. MEDVENE: Excuse me. THE WITNESS: You said to the bottom of the page. MR. LEONARD: Go ahead. MR. MEDVENE: It continues in context on the next page. We ask that THE COURT: Well, you can have -- on your redirect, you can have him MR. LEONARD: I'm satisfied. THE COURT: If you want him to just read a part, fine. THE WITNESS: You don't want me to read to the bottom, sir? MR. LEONARD: No. THE WITNESS: Okay. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Now, how long have you known Mark Fuhrman? A. I believe Mark Fuhrman came to work the robbery table in 1991 or Q. And when he arrived, when he came to the -- what does "table" mean? A. In the detective division, it's a an old phrase because we used to And Mark Fuhrman came to work with for the robbery unit. Q. When he came to work, you were his supervisor? A. No, I was not. Q. You were his supervisor starting when? Let's put it like that. A. When Mark Fuhrman came to the robbery unit, Bob Tapia was his And then when he was sent to the homicide unit, I became a D-3. I Q. And in -- in relation to June 12, 1994, when is it that you became A. Well, again, I was his supervisor, a D-2 when he was a D-1 in There's 3 ranks of Detective: Detective 1, 2, and 3. The D-3 is the When I went to work in the homicide unit, I believe in March -- Q. So for about three or four months prior to June 12, 1994, you were A. That's true. Q. And you had to approve his work? A. That's true. Q. You had to approve his reports -- A. Yes. Q. -- correct? You had to direct him as necessary, right? A. Yes. Q. And you had to supervise and train him, if necessary? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality, this line. THE COURT: Approach the bench. (The following proceedings were held at the bench, with the reporter.) THE COURT: Where are you going? MR. LEONARD: I'm almost done. I have maybe one more question. THE COURT: The objection was relevance. What is the relevance? MR. LEONARD: I thought your earlier ruling was that we could bring up THE COURT: This is establishing that? MR. LEONARD: Well, it's foundation. It also establishes as foundation Look, I'll move on. I made my point. THE COURT: Okay. MR. LEONARD: Okay. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Now, you testified on direct -- direct examination A. Yes. Q. And thereafter, you made calls to Detective Fuhrman, Detective A. Yes. Q. And you said that you related -- I thought you said that you A. That we've got a double homicide, yes. Q. Okay. You also said in direct, in your direct testimony, that when A. No, sir. I called him at 2:39 in the morning. Q. Okay. Who else did you call at the same time that you called these A. I did. On the way to -- may I explain? Q. Sure. A. Okay. We have trainees that want to experience homicide scenes, so Q. Not only did you tell Detective Fuhrman in that telephone A. Yes. Q. Okay. And what response, if any, did he have to that, sir? A. Said he'd meet me at the station. Q. Did he say anything to you at that time about having been involved A. No. Q. So he -- let me make sure -- is your memory clear on that, by the A. Yes. Q. So you then traveled to the station, right? A. Yes. Q. And you waited for Detective Fuhrman there? A. I got there about five minutes before he did. Q. And one of the things you did is, you gathered together materials A. We have homicide kits that we put in the trunks of cars. Q. You described some of the items in your direct examination that Can you go through that again real quickly for us? A. Well, we have rechargeable flashlights that are at the station, and Q. Okay. In the homicide kit, there are items such as gloves and MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality, outside the scope. THE COURT: You opened the door. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Isn't that right, sir? A. There are plastic surgical gloves that we have for that we put on Q. And there are also plastic bags of various sizes, aren't there? A. Plastic, paper. Q. Okay. A. All sizes and shapes. Q. My question is, weren't there plastic bags there? A. Yes. Q. You added paper? A. I apologize. Q. There are also swatches in the kit; is that right? A. No. Q. You sure about that? A. I don't have any swatches in mine. Q. Do you know if any detectives -- A. I'm sure there are some detectives that may have swatches. I don't Q. Why don't you tell the jury what a swatch is, sir. A. It's a little clip of material. Q. And what's it used for? A. Obtain evidence, picking up evidence, picking up blood. Q. Is it primarily used to pick up blood evidence, sir? A. It certainly is. Q. Now, when you arrived at the Bundy crime scene, you parked down at A. I believe I parked south of the crime scene. And if I remember Q. That would be at the southern end of the alley that runs behind the A. No. I said I parked on the east side of Bundy, on the south side of Q. Okay. You were met by Sergeant Rossi, who then transferred you to A. He didn't transfer me. Q. He directed you to? A. He called Officer Riske over to me because I asked who was the Q. And you did a very cursory walk-through of the scene at that point? A. Yes. Q. You did very little detecting, if any, at this point, right? A. I rarely do any detecting; I'm a supervisor. I do an initial Q. Would you agree with me that, actually, up until the point you were A. That's correct. Q. Do you remember that? So when you were asked before, you know, whether you saw bloody A. That's correct. Q. All right. Same thing with regard to whether there were two gloves A. Only one glove was pointed out to me at the crime scene. Q. My question is that your testifying in front of this jury that A. There was only one glove at the crime scene. Q. Can you answer my question, sir? A. I'm answering it. There was only one glove at the crime scene that MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, can I ask that the witness be directed to THE COURT: Answer his questions. THE WITNESS: I'll answer your question again. Q. What part of it didn't you understand? A. I'd like you to repeat it. Q. Isn't it true, sir, that when you told this jury that you only saw A. That's correct. Q. Now, you described what you did in this walk-through, and you went A. Officer Riske and Detective Fuhrman. Q. Okay. And was there anyone else with you? Just those two; is that right? A. Inside the residence? Q. Right. A. On the initial walk-through, yes. Q. And you did the initial walk-through; you came outside. And Detective Fuhrman and Officer Riske came out and you exited after the A. Yes. Q. There's no question about that in your mind? A. He was with me the whole time, until we were through with take Q. Yeah, he came out with you? A. Yes, he did. Q. Okay. And you didn't see Detective Roberts when you were in the A. Detective Roberts came at about 2:30 that morning. Q. Okay. A. I saw him in the alley. Q. My question was, when you went -- when you were in the residence A. No, I didn't. Q. You didn't see him until he was outside in the alleyway? A. At about 2:30, yes. Q. So you did the initial walk-through; you came out with Fuhrman and A. There was a discussion, and Lieutenant Spangler made that decision Q. Okay. And you said, yeah; you made a couple of phone calls. And A. I think at that time Fuhrman had possibly walked back into the Q. How do you know that? A. Because I saw him walk him in through the garage. He told me he was Q. Did he go in by himself? A. I believe so. Q. Okay. And then at some point, you had to go back in to retrieve A. Chronological order: Detective Roberts then showed up and asked me Q. Okay. You all came out together? A. All walked out together and walked back to Bundy and Dorothy. Q. Okay. You walked around and you came around front, right? A. Correct. Q. You made no stops? A. No. Q. Okay. And by the way, when you saw Detective Fuhrman -- well, let A. Yes. Q. Yeah. In fact, it would be uncommon for him to have a jacket on, A. I think I said that in the trial; he had a habit of not wearing Q. Right. In fact, that's something that would stick out in your mind, A. I asked him to put his jacket on a lot of times. But he didn't have Q. You didn't on this occasion, did you? A. No, I didn't ask him to put it on in. Q. Your memory is clear on this point, that he was in short sleeves A. To my knowledge, every time I saw him, he had no jacket on. Q. You told us on direct examination that after you came out with A. Yes. Q. And I think the words you used were that you "stood down," right? A. We were no longer going to do an investigation, so we just -- the Q. Okay. A. It was just a term, "stood down." Q. What that means is, you guys just -- you stood around and you A. Waiting for robbery/homicide detectives. Q. I forgot one thing and my esteemed seem colleague has reminded me. When you were back in the kitchen in your initial walk-through, did A. I believe it was on a counter. Q. Okay. A. And I can't tell you which counter it was on. Q. But it's something you noticed when you did the walk-through, A. I, in the back of my mind, remember something about a jacket or a Q. Was that -- A. It was in the kitchen area of the house. Q. Was that something that was pointed out to you by Officer Riske? A. I don't know if he pointed it out to me or I just observed it, but Q. Do you know if anybody photographed the jacket? A. I didn't do anything with photographs, sir. Q. Do you know if anyone ever collected the jacket? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. LEONARD: May I be heard, Your Honor? THE COURT: You may. (The following proceedings were held at the bench, with the reporter.) MR. LEONARD: Wait for everybody to get here. I think the door's been opened. I know what your ruling is, and I Mr. Medvene asked this witness if he saw any blood, bloody footprints I really think it's unfair for him to leave the impression with the THE COURT: Was there blood on the jacket? MR. LEONARD: Was there blood on the jacket? We'll never know; it THE COURT: The point is this: You guys are blowing up a smoke screen. MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, just, I'm not going to let -- with all due I don't believe this is a smoke screen. I've tried a number of THE COURT: This is not a criminal case. MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, with all due respect -- THE COURT: This is not a case of reasonable doubt. When you're saying This case is really simple; it's a case in which the plaintiff has to If they can't do that, you win. We're not trying the police MR. BAKER: You made a couple of rulings. One is, they made a motion Now, our case is, they didn't do their duty. And what you're allowing What you're allowing is, I think, a smoke screen. You're allowing this THE COURT: That precludes -- MR. BAKER: -- from showing that they have their minds made up before We further believe that there will be testimony Mark Fuhrman was And when you preclude us all over the place by saying we're putting up Their whole evidence is police evidence. Their whole evidence, their You say, well, it isn't a criminal case, and it's by a preponderance It seems to me that, since it's by a lesser standard, that the burden THE COURT: Mr. Baker, if you're going to be offering evidence that MR. BAKER: Well, Judge, you precluded us from putting everything on. THE COURT: Now you can put a jacket on; if you've got a witness to put MR. BAKER: I've got a witness that will put a jacket on Fuhrman. THE COURT: Maybe you do, maybe you don't. MR. BAKER: Well, I mean, you're just taking our whole case; that's my THE COURT: I made my ruling. MR. BAKER: Let me finish. Let me make my record. THE COURT: I made my ruling. MR. BAKER: Let me make my record. THE COURT: You made your record. MR. BAKER: My record is, when there's less of a burden of proof, it's Now I've made my record. THE COURT: Mr. Medvene, if you persist in that manner of presenting MR. MEDVENE: I understand, Your Honor. MR. LEONARD: That's great. This is their last police witness. (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of MR. LEONARD: Ready? THE WITNESS: No, it won't pour, sir. (Referring to pitcher of water.) THE WITNESS: Sorry about that. MR. LEONARD: No problem. THE WITNESS: Okay. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) When you were out in the -- when you were standing A. Well, 2:40 to about 4:05. Q. Okay. You saw everything that Mark Fuhrman did, right? A. He was standing in the intersection with us. Q. He didn't go anywhere? A. No, sir. Q. With anyone? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever see Detective Fuhrman go anywhere with Lieutenant A. When you say go anywhere with him, I don't know what you mean by go Q. Yeah, leave Dorothy and Bundy and go up towards the crime scene. A. Well, I thought you meant left Dorothy and Bundy and left the area. Q. I apologize. It was an unclear question. You're very right. A. No. I thought you meant did he leave that area. No, I didn't. Lieutenant Spangler, Mark Fuhrman and I, at one time, I Q. Now, at that time -- at that time, did you see Mark Fuhrman A. I never saw Mark Fuhrman touch the glove. Q. Did you ever see him at any point manipulate the glove in any way A. I never saw him do that. I understand what you're talking about. But I never saw him do that. Q. Okay. You never saw it? A. I never saw it personally, no. Q. And you never saw the photograph being taken that you say was taken A. I would say somewhere around 6:45, I saw Mark Fuhrman and a Q. You were down at -- A. Dorothy -- Q. -- Dorothy and Bundy. And they walked up Bundy, right? A. Well, they walked across the street and up onto the same property, Q. Who else was in the immediate area of the front of the crime scene A. I don't recall seeing anybody there. Q. Your memory is no one was there, right? A. I don't recall seeing anybody at that location other than Mark and Q. Do you recall being aware of a flash going off from a camera? A. As I stated, I did not see the photograph being taken, so I did not Q. And it was broad daylight when the photograph was taken, right? A. 6:40 in the morning; yes. Q. No question about that in your mind, right? A. None. Q. Did you -- before you went over to Rockingham, you had a A. Yes. Q. And then again after that with Detective Lange? A. Yes. Q. When you went through the crime scene with Detective Vanatter, A. Yes. Q. And you showed him the three spots that you say you saw blood on A. I showed him the bottom rung, the top rung, and the latch. Q. Okay. And the latch in that gate is on the far left and there's a A. It's on the east side of the gate, on the inside of the property Q. All the way on the far left of the gate, right? All the way at the A. Right. So it's a lock. Q. Okay. And whereabouts on the latch did you see the blood? A. It was underneath the latch, on the under portion of it. Q. Okay. And that's all the blood that was pointed out to you, those A. Those three areas. Q. That's what you pointed out to Detective Vanatter? A. Yes. Q. That's what you pointed out to Detective Lange, right? A. Yes. Q. Again, that was pointed out to you by Officer Riske, right? A. Yes. Q. No question about that in your mind? A. Well, I don't know that the latch was pointed out by Officer Riske. Q. Okay. A. I did not hear Riske say that about the latch. Mark pointed that Q. Well, in any event -- A. It was done during the initial walk-through. Q. Okay. But it was those three areas? A. That's correct. Q. All right. When's the last time you've seen a photograph that A. This morning. Q. Oh, you did? A. Yes. Q. Okay. A. I told you, that was the photograph that I saw this morning. Q. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about the photograph over A. No, sir. Q. Okay. A. The one at the gate. Q. Okay. That photograph showed that all three of the areas; is that A. I don't know if you can see them all in one photograph. I looked at Q. Okay. And they were shown to you by some of the lawyers sitting A. Yes. Q. And that was in -- they were trying to prepare you for your MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for conclusion. THE COURT: Overruled. Well, they were trying to prepare, yeah. I'll Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Did you understand what the purpose was for them Q. What was that for? A. I asked to look at it. Q. Okay. In preparation for testifying, right? A. That's correct. Q. Okay. Did you make any comments to them about the photograph at A. No comment other than I recognized it. Q. Did you tell them that you couldn't see the blood on the latch? Did A. There's no photograph that I know of that shows the blood on the Q. Well, that's right because there's no photograph at all that shoes A. I said that there is no photograph that I've ever seen of the blood Q. You know if the blood on the latch was ever collected, sir? A. I don't know what was checked at that crime scene. Q. No idea? A. I have never seen the property report or the lab reports as to what Q. Would it surprise you to learn that the blood wasn't checked on the MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative. Lack of foundation. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. LEONARD: Withdrawn. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Now, you've said that you went over to Rockingham A. I went there for one reason. Q. Well, you indicated to us in direct examination that when I say A. Yes. Q. And there was a dual purpose. Two of the detectives had one purpose A. Mark Fuhrman was coming along because I was taking with me because Q. He was also coming because he knew how to get there? A. That's correct. Q. And you knew how to get there, but he had been there before and he A. Told us he'd been up to that residence before. Q. He told you he had been there because he had responded to an MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Hearsay. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. LEONARD: Goes to state of mind. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. LEONARD: Can we approach? THE COURT: No. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) When you -- when you went over to Rockingham, A. That's what they said. Q. And they told you that they wanted to speak with Mr. Simpson A. They wanted to introduce themselves to Mr. Simpson. Find out Q. Well, but you testified on direct examination -- A. I'm telling you -- tell you -- Q. Correct me if I'm wrong, one of the reasons they wanted to go over A. Yes. Q. Is there any other reason that they, that they told you they were A. Not that recall. Q. There could have been, but you just don't recall? A. That was the reasons I think they went over there, those reasons Q. Well, could it be that Mr. Simpson was a suspect at this time? A. No. Q. You're sure about that? A. I'm positive. Q. That thought never entered your mind, sir? A. It was never talked about, never entered my mind No one ever Q. At any point, sir, up until the time that Detective Fuhrman went MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Lack of foundation. Relevance. Materiality. THE COURT: Sustained. This witness -- sustained. What he -- whether he knew about it or not, that's irrelevant. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Who made the decision to go over the wall? A. Vannatter and Lange. Q. Was there a discussion about why they were going over the wall? A. Between them? Q. You didn't hear any of that? A. I was on my cell phone, out in the middle of the street. They And I said, "okay." Q. At that time, when you were on your cell phone, did -- Detective A. Right. And went over to the Bronco, yes. Q. He had gone around the corner from Ashford, down to the Bronco, A. Yes. Q. And at that time, there was a black and white there? A. No. Q. When did the back and white arrive? A. I called for the black and white after the blood was found on the Q. And before what? On direct examination, you were talking about There was some information we had that made us have some concern for A. Yes. Q. And that information was an amount of blood on the Bronco, is that A. That was the deciding factor that had Vannatter and Lange concerned Q. And you were concerned, too, right? A. Sir, it wasn't my investigation. I was on the telephone, talking to Q. That wasn't my question, sir. My question was: Were you concerned A. Yes. Q. Were you concerned about that? A. Yes. Q. And is it your testimony that at that point, you called for backup? A. We didn't call. We called for a black and white to come to the Q. Okay. And who did you speak to about that, the watch commander? A. Possibly did, through the watch commander, asked that they send a Q. You remember talking to the watch commander? A. Well, if I did it on the cell phone, I talked to the commander. I Q. We have your cell phone records. A. I don't recall exactly which way it was done, sir. Q. Okay. But in any event, it's clear in your mind that the purpose of A. That's correct. Q. And it had nothing to do with door-knocking, right? A. They weren't, no. It had nothing to do with that. Q. What is door-knocking? A. Going up to a door and knocking on it. Q. You trying to be facetious? A. No, I'm not. You're asking what door-knocking is. I'm going up to a I apologize if I've offended you. You asked me what door-knocking was. Q. Is door-knocking a term of art in police work, sir? A. It's walking up to a door, knocking on the door and trying to raise Q. To what end? A. To talk to somebody. Q. And it's your testimony under oath here, that those -- that you did A. That's my testimony. Q. In fact, there would be no reason to do any door-knocking at that A. The purpose -- MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Objection. Asked for, conclusion. THE COURT: Excuse me. MR. MEDVENE: It's argumentative and calls for a conclusion. THE COURT: Asked argumentatively. I don't know that it's an MR. LEONARD: I don't know what that means, Your Honor. THE COURT: It means you can ask it a little more politely. MR. LEONARD: Okay. I'm sorry. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) There wasn't any reason, Officer, excuse me, A. We were going to do a door-knock. We were going to go onto the Q. No. A. I must be completely lost with you now. Q. Okay. What I'm -- let me make my question very clear. You would agree with me, would you not, that at the time that the At the time you requested the black and white to come over to THE COURT: Are you referring to him as an officer, as well? MR. LEONARD: I'm not talking about the black and white officers that MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality, Your Honor. THE COURT: Go ahead and answer the question if you understand it. THE WITNESS: You asked if they were brought there to door-knock in the Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Yes. A. There were no police officers brought to Rockingham that morning, Q. Again, there would be no reason to do that? A. At that time, no. Q. Okay. I apologize. A. Apologize? Q. That was a little rough. THE COURT: That's enough apologizing. Let's get another question. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Do you remember the names of any of the officers A. I assume we're talking about the black and white at Rockingham. Q. Yeah. I'm sorry. The black and white at Rockingham. A. It was Officer Ashton and Officer Gonzalez. Q. Okay. At some point, you interviewed Officer Gonzalez; is that A. Yes. Q. When was that; do you know? MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance, materiality, Your Honor. It's MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, if I can, I can either tell you here or tell THE COURT: Okay. Overruled. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Do you remember when you -- A. I don't recall the date that I interviewed Gonzalez or Ashton. Q. Okay. Would it -- do you recall being asked, I think you were asked A. Was I asked that today? Q. Yeah. Did you do some -- Strike that. Did you do some interviews of officers in April of '95 that were MR. MEDVENE: Objection. THE COURT: Overruled. MR. MEDVENE: Relevance, materiality. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Interviewed some officers, yes. I don't know if it was Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) You recall being assigned to interview officers A. Yes, sir. Q. And that was after the criminal trial had started, right? April of A. I don't know when I interviewed those officers. I don't know if -- Q. Okay. MR. LEONARD: May I approach? (Counsel reviews document.) MR. PETROCELLI: What's the exhibit number? MR. LEONARD: 2107. MR. P. BAKER: It's already marked as 1800. MR. LEONARD: I'm sorry, pre-marked as 1800. (The instrument described herein, Statement of Daniel Gonzalez from Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Showing you what's been marked as 1800, i ask you A. It's a statement of Daniel H. Gonzalez from the interview that was Q. Okay. A. And it has to do with the evidence that surrounds this case. Q. Okay. And what's the date of that report? A. Doesn't have a date on it. Q. Is that unusual for a report not to be dated? A. Very unusual. Q. It's supposed to be dated, right? A. They should -- I should have dated it. Q. Having looked at it, does it refresh your recollection, memory, at A. I don't recall exactly when I made the report. It was during the Q. Okay. And by the way, when you -- when you interviewed detective -- A. Yes. Q. -- did you have the benefit of any other reports about Gonzalez's MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Relevance. Hearsay. Materiality. The witness MR. LEONARD: It's just to establish foundation. We do intend to call MR. MEDVENE: Out -- also outside the scope, Your Honor. This witness MR. LEONARD: Last question on this, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead. MR. LEONARD: Scout's honor. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Did you, sir, look at anything else relating to A. We -- you just answered my own question. It wasn't -- didn't Q. So you have a memory of doing that? A. I thought there was some other notes that he had written, and you MR. LEONARD: Okay. While we're at it, Your Honor, may I approach? THE COURT: Who? MR. LEONARD: This guy here. (Counsel approaches witness stand.) THE COURT: Go ahead. MR. PETROCELLI: Which exhibit? MR. LEONARD: It's the Thompson report. MR. P. BAKER: Thompson report, 2104. MR. LEONARD: 2104. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Showing you what's been marked as 2104, and ask A. This is a statement of Thompson taken by myself on April 7, 1995 at Q. What I would -- first of all, now having read that, does that A. No. It tells me when I interviewed Thompson, but I would only be Q. I don't want you to guess but what I would like you to do is A. You want me to read the whole document? Q. No. No, read it to yourself. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Outside the scope. The witness is available. MR. LEONARD: Can we go to side bar? THE COURT: Are you going to ask him questions about this document? MR. LEONARD: I'm just laying a foundation on this, a document we tried THE COURT: Just foundation? MR. LEONARD: Yes. THE COURT: You got it. MR. LEONARD: Thank you. THE WITNESS: Okay. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Had a chance to read it? A. Yes, sir. Q. Does that comport with your memory of what was told to you by A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. And the purpose of your interviewing Officer Thompson was to A. At both crime scenes, I believe. Q. What was the purpose? A. It was to straighten out -- explain better, I guess. Q. Okay. And you were asking him -- you asked him to tell you A. I interviewed him and put down his statements, yes. Q. Okay. By the way, is there anything in there about Officer Thompson MR. MEDVENE: He's clearly asking for hearsay. He knows he's asking for MR. LEONARD: Prior inconsistent statement. MR. MEDVENE: Lack of foundation. THE COURT: Just a minute. You want to do some impeaching? Why don't MR. LEONARD: Your Honor, it's a prior inconsistent statement of the THE COURT: I understand that. Just explain the side of the case. MR. LEONARD: I understand. May we reopen? THE COURT: Let's do things in order. MR. LEONARD: May we reopen it for this purpose only with this witness? THE COURT: No. Put your defense on when your time comes. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Prior to going over to Rockingham, did you ask A. No. Q. You'd have no reason to do that. MR. MEDVENE: Argumentative, Your Honor. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Did you have any reason to do that at that time? MR. MEDVENE: Same objection. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I didn't do that. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) You didn't have any reason to do it, right? A. Sir, I didn't do it. Would it be done? I didn't have a reason to do Q. Now, Detective Fuhrman went over the wall. And before that, you A. Both Westec units arrived before Fuhrman went over the wall. Q. Okay. And how much in time, prior to Fuhrman going over the wall, A. Possibly about ten minutes because I had talked to him for a little Q. Westec unit stayed there the whole time? A. He was parked in the middle of the intersection, yes. Q. He was parked. You indicated that he arrived and was heading up A. No, I didn't. I said that the first Westec officers came southbound Q. Okay. And the first -- the first Westec units then, at the time A. Yes, sir. Q. And with the headlights on, right? You didn't, the vehicle had it's A. I can't recall if it had the headlights on or not. Q. You don't remember? A. I don't remember. Q. Could have? A. I don't remember. Q. Now, Fuhrman goes over the wall, unlatches the gate. You all go A. We went to the front of the residence, sir. Q. You went -- Okay. You couldn't gain entry then. You went around and A. Yes. Q. You didn't know it was Kato in there. You knocked on the door. You A. After I saw an arm, I thought somebody was in there. Q. Okay. And he opened the door, and a question was put to him A. Yes. Q. The question basically was, where is Mr. Simpson, right? A. Where is Mr. Simpson or do you know where Mr. Simpson is. Q. And he responded immediately, didn't he? Did his plane crash or A. No. Q. Do you remember that? A. He never said that. Q. Never said that? A. Never said that. Q. So if he testifies to that, he's lying; is that right, sir? A. I never heard Mr. Kato Kaelin say, did his plane crash. Q. So if he comes into court and testifies to that, he's lying; is MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Argumentative. THE COURT: Sustained. You're asking him to draw a conclusion. That's MR. LEONARD: If he comes in and testifies to that he's incorrect; MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Asks for conclusion. THE COURT: Sustained. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Were you right there within ear shot of Mr. Kaelin A. Yes. Q. Were you right there? A. Yes. Q. Now, Mr. -- Detective Fuhrman, he stayed behind with Mr. Kaelin and A. Yes. Q. You got her up, right? A. Knocked on the door and she answered the door. Q. And she was asked some questions as well, correct? A. She was asked questions, if she knew where her father was, Q. What was her response. A. She responded by answering the question like, isn't he there or Q. You're sure about, right? A. Something along these lines, isn't he here or isn't he there. Q. And then you requested of her that she permit you to enter the A. No. I didn't talk to her any more, Detective Vannatter did. Q. Someone in your presence did? A. I didn't listen to the conversation between her and Vannatter and Q. But you all walked into the house together. There's no question in A. I did not hear the conversation between Vannatter and Arnelle Q. Okay. May I go over there? I have to get one of the exhibits. THE COURT: Go ahead. MR. LEONARD: Think I'm going to put it up here, if I can. It okay if I THE COURT: As long as it doesn't fall onto one of our jurors. MR. LEONARD: We wouldn't want that to happen. THE COURT: Can you? THE BAILIFF: Yeah. MR. LEONARD: I'm sorry, Your Honor that's the wrong Exhibit. (Counsel displays large exhibit entitled "Glove found at 360 North Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Now with the pointer and still holding so there's A. I got it. Q. -- I want you to, first of all, identify Arnelle Simpson's room. THE COURT: You want to identify the Exhibit? MR. LEONARD: I'm sorry. 145. THE COURT: Okay. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Would you identify on 145 where Arnelle Simpson's A. It's right here, where it says Arnelle's room. Q. Okay. That makes it easy. Now, when you entered, you said that Arnelle went back in and she got A. Yes. Q. Okay. That was the key to enter the residence, correct? Well, you -- A. I would have to assume it was. Q. Okay. In fact, you ultimately saw her use the key to get into the A. Well, I was behind. I don't know whether she used the key or not. Q. Okay. But there's no question in your mind that she -- that she had A. I would assume she had used a key to get in. Q. Okay. Just point out the door that you went into. A. There's some French doors in the rear of the residence. I think Q. Let the record reflect that Detective Phillips has indicated that A. Is this the tree you're talking about? Q. Yeah. A. We entered over here. Q. Right. A. Okay. Q. There's actually an opening there indicating a door? A. I would assume so. Q. About three inches to the left of the tree? A. Okay. Q. Right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. I want the record complete. Thank you. And there's no question in your mind that that's how you gained A. That's how we went in the house. Q. There's no question in your mind that you did not walk all the way A. Did not. Q. Okay. You were -- A. Shall I put this down? Q. I'll relieve you of your duty there. I'll do that. (Counsel takes Exhibit 145.) Q. Now, your intent on notifying Mr. Simpson, correct? That was what you were about when you went over there? That was your job over there, right? A. Yes. Q. And you wanted to make sure that Mr. Simpson learned of this tragic A. Yes, I was ordered to do that. Q. All right. You wanted to make sure, for instance, that you did not A. We did not until we notified her father. Q. It was until after Mr. Simpson was notified that you -- that you A. I did not notify Arnelle Simpson, Tom Lange did. Q. And it was after that you -- A. While I was making the phone call to her father, Tom Lange started Q. Okay. But prior to her picking up the phone to call Mr. Simpson, in A. No, I did not. Q. Nor did you hear any other officers, right? A. No, I did not. Q. Okay. And from the time that you left Arnelle's room, walked by the A. That's correct. Q. And you -- and that's the situation -- that situation remained like In other words, Arnelle Simpson was right next to you? A. Yes. Q. You could hear her react to what you were telling Mr. Simpson? A. Well, she handed me the phone after -- when she called Cathy Randa. Q. Did you just say that she handed you the phone when you spoke to A. No. I misspoke. I said when she was talking to Cathy Randa, she Q. Okay. But just so it's clear, you walked in the back entrance, A. Walked in the back. Q. And you never told Arnelle prior to making the call to Mr. Simpson MR. MEDVENE: Asked and answered. THE COURT: About three times. MR. LEONARD: I'll withdraw. May I approach? THE COURT: I guess. Go ahead. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Just show you what's -- I'm sorry. (Plaintiffs' counsel review documents.) MR. MEDVENE: We just did this. MR. LEONARD: Did we? MR. MEDVENE: (Nods affirmatively.) MR. LEONARD: False alarm. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Now, when you finished your discussion with Mr. A. Breakfast -- I call it a breakfast nook area there were a couple of Q. And was it -- were you -- were you insides or outside? A. I think I was standing in the doorway. Q. By the way, did, at the end of this discussion with Mr. Simpson, A. Yes. Q. Gave him my beeper number and my phone number at the station. Q. And at that point, after you went outside, Mister or Detective A. Yes. Q. You walked down that path behind the Rockingham residence with him, A. Yes. Q. And you got within three or four feet of the glove, correct? A. Right. Yes. Q. And you weren't close in enough to see whether the glove was A. I didn't get close enough to the glove. Q. Did you ever walk behind, beyond, the air conditioner that's in the A. I eventually did, but much later in the day. Q. What was your purpose in going back there? A. I think there was a whole bunch of us that walked back there. I I think the D.A. went back there. We're just basically walking around Q. Okay. A. It was much, much later in the day. Q. Was Detective Fuhrman in that group that went back there? A. I don't know if he was in that group. Q. Did Detective Fuhrman tell you anything about the condition of the MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Hearsay, Your Honor. THE COURT: Sustained. MR. LEONARD: You can answer yes or no. MR. MEDVENE: Well, Your Honor has ruled. THE COURT: I sustained the objection. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Now, when you walked back along the pathway, were A. Yes. Q. Okay. And one of the things you were looking out for was any A. Yes. Q. Okay. And did you see any signs of blood drops such as you saw at A. No. Q. Did you see any signs of any disturbance along the bushes that are A. No. Q. Any identification at all along that. Someone had come over the A. I observed nothing. Q. Nothing out of ordinary in those bushes? A. Nothing. Q. Those are extremely thick bushes, aren't they, sir? A. There was a lot of overhang and a lot of foliage, extreme thick MR. LEONARD: Can you cue up 147, please? Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Now, the photograph that's up on the Elmo now A. Yes. Q. And I know it's kind of hard to see with the pointer. Can you just A. I'd have to say it's somewhere in this area here because it was Q. Okay. But that's the approximate area where the glove was? A. Right. Q. Now, just to the right. That's -- there's a fence. A fence is about A. Five feet. Q. Okay. And the fence has, if you can see along the top of that A. It's like a cyclone fence. It's jacked where the seek loan fence is Q. Okay. And again, with reference to the foliage that's along the top A. Well, it's impossible for me to look at that photograph and tell Q. Okay. And the bushes extend or the foliage extends, what, 20 feet A. I don't -- they were taller than I was, sir. I don't remember how Q. One of the things you look for around the area of the glove was no A. I never look for any of that. Q. You didn't? A. No. Q. Okay. But you did look for blood drops along the path there? A. Yes. Q. You didn't see any? A. I didn't see anything that stepped on -- I didn't see anything at Q. Had a flashlight? A. Yes, sir. Q. And Detective Fuhrman had a flashlight? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. And you were both looking along the ground there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. And did you come back -- come back down that path a couple A. No. I just went down it the one time, and then Phil Vannatter went Q. Okay. And they all had flashlights, to your knowledge? A. I don't know who had a flashlight. Q. When you entered the Rockingham residence with Arnelle Simpson and A. When we walked from Arnelle's room towards the house, Mark Fuhrman Shortly after arriving inside the house, I believe Mark Fuhrman Q. Now, Vanatter was the senior investigator at the time, right? A. I don't really know, their being the same rank, Detective 3's. I Q. Well, you and Fuhrman were off the case at that point. MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Vague, ambiguous "off the indicate case." THE COURT: Overruled. MR. LEONARD: I can make it clearer. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) You and Fuhrman had been relieved of your duties A. We were not the investigating officers on this case at this time, Q. Again, you had gone over there only to notify Mr. Simpson, right? A. That's correct. Q. You say that Fuhrman told Vannatter to interview Kato Kaelin? A. I don't know if he said "interview." He said, "You should talk to Q. And Fuhrman separated himself from the group, right? A. I don't know that. I was on the telephone. Q. Well -- A. It all happened at the same time. I was busy talking to Arnelle Q. From the time he walked out the door until you saw him again when Give us an estimate. A. Five, seven minutes, something like that. Q. Now, you went with -- you went back over to Bundy. And you say that A. I told him to get a photographer. Q. And you saw him have some exchange with photographer Rokahr, right? A. Yes. Q. And again, there's no question in your mind, that happened after A. There's no doubt in my mind. Q. No question it was broad daylight when the photograph was taken? A. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. Q. Could I have a minute, Your Honor. THE COURT: (Nods affirmatively.) (Pause in proceedings.) MR. LEONARD: Two more. MR. PETROCELLI: Two more? MR. LEONARD: Questions. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) When you -- before you went over the -- before A. Yes. Q. And he pointed out a small amount of blood above the door handle of A. Yes. Q. And that's when he pointed it out to you, right? A. No; he pointed out something on the -- underneath the door, but I Q. Okay. He said there was something down there; you couldn't see it? A. I didn't have my glasses with me, so I didn't see it. MR. LEONARD: Okay. Now, can we show the photograph of the Bronco, the Hold on for a second. (Pause in the proceedings.) MR. LEONARD: Okay. We've he got 108 up on the Elmo. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Can you tell me, sir, what that photograph A. That's the Ford Bronco that was parked on Rockingham. That is Dennis Fung, a criminalist who is pointing at an object just Q. Okay. And that's where you saw the spot that Detective Fuhrman A. Yes, sir. MR. LEONARD: Okay. Can we have the next Exhibit, please, on the Elmo. MR. P. BAKER: That's Exhibit 109. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Now, Exhibit 110 that's on the Elmo, that depicts A. Yes. Q. That's the spot that appeared to you on June 13, 1994? A. Yes, sir. Q. It's another spot. You couldn't see the other area that Fuhrman A. Well, I didn't. He was pointing something out to me and I couldn't MR. MEDVENE: Objection. Calls for hearsay, Your Honor. Move to strike. THE COURT: Overruled. THE WITNESS: Couldn't make out what he was pointing me to. Q. (BY MR. LEONARD) Didn't you think about putting your glasses on? A. I didn't see it. MR. LEONARD: No further questions. MR. MEDVENE: If I might just have a moment, Your Honor, to look at (Pause in the proceedings.) REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. MEDVENE: Q. When you were questioned about the fence, near where the glove was MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading, Your Honor. THE COURT: Overruled. A. I did not examine that fence at all. Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) On the leaves and trees that were in the immediate MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading. THE COURT: Overruled. Based upon your examination, I'm going to allow this examination. A. I conducted absolutely no investigation into anything but viewing Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) Counsel asked you about a statement that you wrote A. Yes. Q. Did you say in that statement, sir, at no time during the A. Yes. Q. Was that accurate? A. Yes. MR. MEDVENE: I have nothing further. Thank you very much. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. LEONARD: Q. Did you have your glasses on when you walked down the walkway and A. No, sir. MR. LEONARD: No further questions. MR. MEDVENE: No questions. THE COURT: You are excused. Thank you. MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I'd like the witness to remain on call, in view THE COURT: Witness on call. THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, we had a discussion in chambers. We are THE COURT: What time? MR. PETROCELLI: First thing, 8:30. THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to not be in session Again, let me remind you not to talk about this case, not form or You're going to have a whole day free. You can go back to work or Do not allow anybody to talk to you about this case. Do not allow Don't go to the scene; don't conduct any investigation; restrict JURORS: Yes. THE COURT: Thank you. We'll see you Thursday, 8:30. THE CLERK: I need that last Exhibit 2106. (At 4:16 p.m., an adjournment was taken until Thursday, October 31,
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