NOVEMBER 26, 1996





8:52 A.M.



(The jurors resumed their respective seats.)

THE COURT: Why don't you have Mr. Simpson sit at counsel table for a minute.

MR. BAKER: I'm sorry. Fine. We told him to get up there.

(Mr. Simpson resumes seat at counsel table from witness stand.)

THE COURT: Morning, ladies and gentlemen.

JURORS: Morning, Your Honor.

THE COURT: You notice that one of your number is missing. That juror has been

Ordinarily, we don't discuss why a juror has been excused. However, in this
instance, I must inform you that the juror has been excused because the juror
has conducted herself in a manner that is inappropriate for a juror sitting on
a case.

The conduct that is inappropriate is that which is one that consists of
communicating, or attempting to communicate with persons connected with this
case, whether they're attorneys, employees of attorneys, or media, or anybody.
That is inappropriate.

You are jurors. You are sworn to hear the evidence and to decide this case only
on the basis of the evidence in the case and the law that is given in the case.

You're forbidden to have any contact with, or any communication with anybody
connected with this case, except through the trial process and through the

The attorneys can talk to you, only while they are addressing you in opening
and closing argument.

The witnesses cannot talk to you at all, except by way of their testimony.

Employees of attorneys, they cannot talk to you at all. And it would be totally
inappropriate for you to make any effort to communicate with them, as well.

Now, do all of you jurors understand that?


THE COURT: A jury is not a social club. A jury is the fulfillment of a legal
obligation, and it is your duty to fulfill that obligation by being impartial
and being careful listeners of the evidence, and to decide this case based upon
the evidence and the law as you receive it from this Court, and not from any
other source.

Now, when I say that is your duty, there is another duty; and that is the duty
to conduct yourselves in a way that there is no appearance of impropriety.

If the kind of conduct that I am concerned with continues, it would lead to an
appearance of impropriety, because it would be seen that the juror may be
having inappropriate, although most likely innocent, contact with one side or
the other, or the media.

You see, if the other side perceives such a contact, or the public sees such a
contact, it is entirely likely that the public, in general, will lose
confidence in the judicial process and would taint the integrity of having a
trial. So it is very important that all jurors maintain themselves and comport
themselves in such a way that they do not cause a perception of inappropriate
conduct. And in this instance, that is conduct that would look like you're
trying to contact somebody connected with the case.

Everybody understand that?


THE COURT: Now, if anybody tries to contact you, as I've informed you before,
let the Court know. That is totally appropriate.

I've always admonished you, and periodically admonished you not to listen to
radio reports, watch television broadcasts, or read newspaper articles or news
articles concerning this trial.

That is doubly so in this instance, because these things become news items and
the media goes out there and just plays it for all it's worth.

And it's very important that you do not allow yourselves to be influenced by
that. And the way we hope to insulate you from that is by ordering you not to
do that.

The only alternative is to sequester you and put you in custody, so to speak.
And I don't think that's appropriate in a civil case. And you've all sworn that
you would comport yourselves in such a way that you would not allow that kind
of exposure to -- information. I trust that you still maintain, believe that
you will be able to keep yourselves from being tainted by outside information
on this case. Is that correct?


THE COURT: All right.

Now, at this time, the clerk is instructed to place the names of the alternates
in the gray box. And we will draw an alternate to fill jury seat number 4.

(The clerk complies.)

THE CLERK: Number 294. You're Juror number 8 now.

THE COURT: Juror number 294, would you take seat number 4.

Okay. Juror number 294, you are now part of the regular jury panel.

At this time, we will resume.

Mr. Simpson, would you resume the stand, please.

THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.

MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, I'd like to read into the record and move to into
evidence, the exhibits I referred to in my examination.

They're all by reference to the joint trial statement.

Exhibits 783, 13, 15, 14, 813, 1161, 735, 811, 17, 812, 2216, 195, 2217, 760,
761, 434, 782, 228, 225, 2218, 2219, 2220, and 2221.

Thank you.

MR. BAKER: I just reserve again, Your Honor.


(The instruments previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibits 783, 13, 15, 14,
813, 1161, 735, 811, 17, 812, 2216, 195, 2217, 760, 761, 434, 782, 228, 225,
2218, 2219, 2220, and 2221, were received in evidence.)

THE CLERK: You are still under oath.

Would you please state your name again for the record.

THE WITNESS: Orenthal James Simpson.

ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, the witness on the stand at the time of the adjournment
of Monday, November 25, 1996, having been previously duly sworn, was examined
further as follows:

THE COURT: Mr. Simpson, would you draw the microphone a little bit closer to
you; you don't have to breathe into it; but just bring it closer to you.

Thank you.


Q. Morning.

Morning, ladies and gentlemen.

JURORS: Morning.

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) Mr. Simpson, you left Los Angeles and got on a flight headed
back to Chicago on the evening of June 12, true?

A. Yes.

Q. And during that flight, you were in first class, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And the seat that you were in, there wasn't anyone seated in the seat next
to you, true?

MR. BAKER: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. Yes.

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) Okay.

And during the course of that flight, Mr. Simpson, once it took off and was in
the air, you didn't speak to anyone else on that flight, true?

A. Not true.

Q. Okay.

Who did you speak with?

A. What do you mean, during the flight?

Q. Yeah. When you took off and you were in the air, you indicated that you
spoke with someone. Who did you speak with?

A. The captain.

Q. Other than the captain, did you speak with anyone else?

A. Maybe a stewardess.

Q. Okay.

Other than personnel that worked on the plane, you didn't speak with anyone
else, true?

A. True.

Q. And during that flight, there was a partner of a good friend of yours that
was seated in first class with you, true?

A. Correct.

Q. Now, once the plane took off, the overhead lights in the first class cabin
went off, true?

A. We were possibly in the air 40 minutes or an hour and they went off.

Q. They were dark during the entire flight until you came close to landing,
beginning your descent; is that also true, sir?

A. That's true.

Q. You had had a very active day. You played golf, true?

A. True.

Q. You woke up early in the morning, right?

A. That's correct.

Q. And just before leaving, you were laying on your bed, fighting the urge to
go to sleep, because you wanted to, obviously, sleep on the plane, right?

A. That's correct.

Q. And while you were on this plane, headed back to Chicago at night, you
didn't sleep at all, did you?

A. I think I dozed a little bit from time to time, 'cause I was reading, and I
put the book down and dozed. I'd read, put the book down, and dozed or gone to
the restroom or something.

Q. You don't recall sleeping for an extended period of time, an hour, two,
three hours on this flight, true?

A. Certainly not three hours.

You know, it's hard to tell -- when you're flying, it's hard to tell. I may
have dozed off for an hour at one point. It's just hard to tell.

Q. At no time during this flight did you ever contact Kato Kaelin to find out
whether he had found out any further information concerning the noises he heard
that evening, true?

A. That's correct.

Q. And at no time during that flight did you ever contact your daughter,
Arnelle, who lived with you, to find out whether she knew anything about the
noises, true?

A. I wasn't concerned about it; that's true.

Q. You were not concerned about your daughter's safety?

A. No, I was not concerned about what Kato claimed he heard.

Q. And the answer to my question is, you did not contact Arnelle at any time
during that flight, true?

A. That's correct.

Q. You didn't contact Westec during that flight to have them come over and
investigate any of those noises, true?

A. That's correct.

Q. And you did not contact the police department, as well, true?

A. That's correct.

Q. And during the course of that flight, Mr. Simpson, you used the restroom on
at least five occasions, true?

A. I doubt it, but three or four, for sure.

Q. You're not certain you didn't use it on at least five occasions?

A. I would say three or four times.

I tend to, you know, I tend to drink a lot of water on flights -- it's
something that I state in my video -- and consequently, go to the bathroom.

Q. How would I know, Mr. Simpson?

A. I'm sure you interviewed -- I mean, I'm sure you looked at the testimony of
other -- of the video that I did for Playboy, where I state that in the video.

Q. So we're to accept what you say in a video as gospel truth in this

MR. BAKER: I object. That's argument.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) Mr. Simpson, when you went into the restroom during the
flight back to Chicago, when you closed the door, lights go on; is that

A. That's correct.

Q. Very small, confined area?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay.

And you would have had at least four occasions in that restroom to make
observations relative to any cuts on your hand, wouldn't you?

A. Possibly.

Q. I mean, small, confined area, brightly lit, true?

A. Yeah.

When I said possibly, still, it's -- possibly it was four times. But I would
have assumed if I saw any cuts or anything, I would have -- may have noticed

Q. Okay.

And on any of those occasions, you never observed any cuts on any portion of
your hand, true?

A. That's correct.

Q. Left or right, right?

A. That's correct.

Q. So there was absolutely no question in your mind when you got to Chicago
that you didn't have any cuts on your left middle finger; is that true?

A. Well, it was not anything I had on my mind when I got to Chicago.

Q. You didn't see anything on the plane that led you to believe that you had a
cut on your left middle finger; is that what you're saying?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay.

So you were absolutely certain when you were in Chicago, that the cut that you
received in connection with that glass was the first cut to that left middle
finger; that true?

A. For the most part, yes.

Q. That was the information you had on June 13, when you spoke with Detectives
Lange and Vannatter true?

A. That's correct.

Q. It was on that occasion that you told them that you cut it the night before.

MR. BAKER: Object. This has all been asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) Now, Mr. Simpson, in connection with Paula Barbieri, you had
mentioned on Friday and on Monday, that there were messages that she left you
that you never received, but messages that you left her, true?

A. Yes.

Q. And after you returned on the 13th, the last time that you saw Ms. Barbieri
was the morning of the 17th, when she left and went back to Florida; is that

A. I'm sorry; what date are we on, now?

Q. We're on the morning of the 17th.

A. Yes, I saw her when she was heading back to Florida.

Q. Okay.

And then the next time that you saw her after that, you would have been in jail
or incarcerated?

A. That's correct.

Q. And during that time period when you were in jail, she came to visit you,

A. Correct.

Q. And in connection with one of her visits, the subject matter of messages
came up, correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. And during that conversation, you asked her whether she had a message that
she had left -- You had left her, true?

A. I don't know if I asked her or if it was a subject that the lawyers or
someone was asking, but somehow it came up, yes.

Q. And you asked her to check to see whether those messages were still on her
tape machine, didn't you?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Certain of that?

A. Certain of that.

Q. And you asked her to see if she could retrieve the tape and bring it to you
or to your lawyer, didn't you?

A. I don't recall doing that. But that would have been something that I would
have done.

Q. To ask her to retrieve the messages you left her?

A. I would have, at that point in time -- I don't know at what point in time
this came up. It would could have been a month or two after. I would have tried
-- if it was a subject that was being discussed, I would have tried to get as
much information as I can get from anybody and tell them to bring it to the

Q. And the reason why you were asking questions about messages you left on her
machine is, you knew that was important to retrieve that message, right?

A. No, sir, not necessarily.

I don't know if I asked her to get a message from her machine. I think the
subject matter her and I had was that she was upset with me.

Q. How many times during the course of your incarceration did the subject
matter of messages come up between you and Ms. Barbieri?

A. That may have been the only time.

Q. And was that when she was physically at your cell or the place of
incarceration --

A. Yes --

Q. -- or was that over the phone?

A. -- I believe it was. I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure it was at one of her
visits, and we were just talking about general stuff.

Q. You ever ask her to get rid of the tapes, Mr. Simpson?

A. No.

Q. Certain of that?

A. Yes.

Q. You see on the monitor what's been marked and actually admitted into
evidence as Exhibit 761, and it's entitled, To Whom it May Concern.

A. Yes.

Q. That's a letter that you wrote, or a note that you wrote on June 17; is that

A. Yes.

(The instrument herein referred to as Handwritten note dated June 15, 1994 by
O.J. Simpson was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 761.)

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) You see in the upper right-hand corner, June 15, 1994?

A. Yes.

Q. That's not the date that you wrote this note?

A. That's correct.

Q. And, in fact, the first time that you ever put pen to paper in connection
with this note was on the morning of June 17, 1994, true?

A. That's correct.

Q. And it was only after you were told that you were going to be arrested that
you first put pen to paper to write this note, true?

A. I believe so, yes.

Q. And it was only after that you had learned evidence that linked you to these
murders, that you put pen to paper on June 17 and wrote this note, true, sir?

A. I don't know about that. I just know that they were going to arrest me.

Q. Well, Mr. Simpson, you knew by June 17 that your blood was found at
Rockingham and Bundy, didn't you, sir.

A. I don't think that there was much talk about that --

MR. BAKER: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. I don't think there was that much talk about that. All I know is that they
were going to arrest me.

Q. Well, you knew they were going to arrest you in connection with a double
murder, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you decided at that point, to draft this note, this letter, true?

A. That's correct.

Q. And after it was completed, you gave it to Robert Kardashian to read,
telling him that he would know when to read it, right?

A. I believe I gave it to AC.

Q. Okay.

And you told AC that he would know when to read it or when it should be read?

A. I don't believe so. I think I just gave it to him.

Q. Well, you knew, sir, that this letter was going to be read in the event of
your death, didn't you?

A. I would have assumed so, yes.

Q. That was your intention, wasn't it?

A. That's correct.

Q. That's why you made references, asking the press to leave you alone, leave
your family alone, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay.

And in connection with drafting this, sir, on the first page --

MR. BREWER: Steve, if you could scroll down to the bottom -- see about where it
says "unlike" -- what's been unlike -- what's been in the press --

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) See that reference there, sir?

A. Yes.

Q. "Nicole and I had a great relationship for most of our lives together."

All long-term relationships, we had a --

Like all long-term relationships, we had a few downs and ups. I took the heat
for New Years 1989 because that was what I was supposed to do. I did not plea
nolo for any other reason but to protect our privacy, and was advised that it
would end the press hype.

Did I read that correctly, sir?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you write that?

A. Yes.

Q. You told this jury, Mr. Simpson, on at least 15 occasions, that you take
full responsibility for the injuries that you caused to Nicole Brown Simpson in
connection with the New Year's Day incident in 1989, haven't you?

A. I take total and full responsibility for my actions that night, yes.

Q. And you also took full responsibility for your actions and the consequences
of your actions at the time that you drafted this note, didn't you?

A. That's absolutely correct. For my actions. That's absolutely correct.

Q. And when you say in this note that you "took the heat because it was what I
was supposed to do," you're intending to imply to the public, to your
supporters, that you are taking full responsibility for the injuries that you
caused in 1989; is that what you're saying?

A. I think that's in part.

I think the total intent was, Nicole was not going to testify.

Nicole, as you may have seen on national TV from her mother, stated she was
just as much at fault and she started the fight.

I didn't think that Nicole and I should be in a courtroom trying to explain to
the public, in essence, what took place that night. So I took full
responsibility and pleaded no contest.

Q. Um-hum.

These are your very last thoughts and impressions before you anticipated taking
your life, right, Mr. Simpson?

A. Yes.

Q. And one of the last things that you wanted people to know was that you were
a battered husband and boyfriend, right?

A. I think whatever I was feeling at the time had a lot to do with what was
happening that week, and I -- I was obviously pretty distraught, and when I was
writing the letter, that's how I was feeling.

Q. You referred to yourself in this letter as a battered husband and battered
boyfriend; is that true?

A. I think at times I felt that way, yes.

Q. And, Mr. Simpson, in this scenario, who's the batterer?

Who battered you, sir?

A. Excuse me?

Q. Who battered you?

MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I'm going to object.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) Well, sir, when you said that you were a battered husband,
you intended to imply that somebody battered you, true?

A. Yes.

Q. Who battered you?

A. I felt -- I meant to convey that at times I felt battered.

And from what Nicole and I went through in therapy, I think we both came to the
conclusion that we were abusive to one another at times in our relationship.
Sometimes it was probably more verbal than physical.

Q. Was it your belief, Mr. Simpson, that in 1994, when you smashed the
windshield of her vehicle, that you were a battered boyfriend at that time?

MR. BAKER: Object.

A. No.

MR. BAKER: Argumentative. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. Sir, can you identify any specific incidents that you believe resulted in
your being battered by Nicole?

A. Times when she hit me?

Q. Yeah.

A. Yes. There was -- a -- numerous times after that, and I kept a log of it.

Q. In 1989, did you consider yourself to be a battered husband as a result of
that incident?

A. I felt -- I think Nicole admitted -- her mother said on national TV -- she
admitted to her and Cora Fischman, that the physical side of it was initiated
by Nicole.

I felt that I should have still reacted differently than I reacted. I think my
reactions were inappropriate. I think I should have just left, but I didn't,
and I was wrong for the way I reacted, yes.

Q. And one of the incidents that you're referring to in this note where you
talk about yourself being a battered husband, is the 1989 incident, right?

A. When I talk about myself, at times I felt like a battered husband, yes.

Q. And you're referring to the 1989 incident, just so we're perfectly clear?

A. No, I wasn't. I was referring to a couple of incidents after 1989.

Q. You're not referring to the 1989 incident when you talk about yourself, in
this note, as being a battered husband; is that what you're now saying?

A. In general, that may have been also there, but I don't think I specifically
tried to break it down to any specific incident.

The way I was feeling at the time was, I think, a little put upon by what was
happening that week, and I think in general, that's how I was feeling. And
that's what I --

Q. Well, sir, how about right now?

Tell this jury in 1989, as a result of that incident, were you battered?

A. In 1989?

MR. BAKER: I object. Objection. Asked and answered. Argumentative.

MR. BREWER: Has that been asked and answered?

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. BREWER: On what ground?

THE COURT: I think that's an irrelevant question.

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) Okay.

Mr. Simpson, in connection with the 1993 incident where Nicole contacted 911 to
have you removed from Gretna Green, did you consider yourself -- were you
battered in that incident?

A. No.

Q. You, yourself indicated --

MR. BREWER: And Steve, if you can go to page 4 of the note.

(Mr. Foster complies.)

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) You state, Mr. Simpson, about midway down through the first

"All of her friends will confirm that I've been totally loving and
understanding of what she's been going through."

You see that reference?

A. Yes.

Q. Mr. Simpson, in June of 1994, you believe Nicole Brown Simpson was afraid of
you, afraid for her own physical safety?

A. No.

Q. And do you believe that her friends, her close friends, shared that view?

A. I'm sorry? Shared what view?

Q. That she was not afraid of you, not afraid for her own physical safety as of
June of 1994?

MR. BAKER: Objection. Relevance.

A. I don't know.

THE COURT: Objection sustained. The state of mind of others is irrelevant.

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) If Cora Fischman testified at her deposition that Nicole
Brown Simpson had told her --

MR. BAKER: I'm going to object to this. This is an improper way to get --

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. (BY MR. BREWER) Mr. Simpson, you also refer to yourself in this note as "a
lost person." And in connection with that statement, you say,

"Ask people to remember the real O.J. not this lost person."

Do you recall writing that, sir?

A. Yes.

Q. And that was a reflection of your state of mind at the time; is that true?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay.

Now, Mr. Simpson, who is the real O.J. that you were talking about?

A. I like to think I was a guy that everyone who had a problem, my friends,
including Nicole, when we were together and when we were divorced, when she had
real serious issues and problems, that I was the person that they could come

I like to think I treated everybody the way I -- my basic philosophy in life
was to do unto others. I think in just about every case, I treated everybody
the way I wanted to be treated.

The general public, I always had time for people. I was involved in charities.
Nicole's family and friends, when they had problems, they came to me. And I'd
like to think I was a good friend to all of them.

Q. And, Mr. Simpson, this lost person that you referred to, that's a double
murderer, isn't it?

A. No.

Q. That's the person who, on June 12, took the lives of two young people?

A. That's incorrect.

Q. Mr. Simpson, this letter makes no mention of outrage or spite about the
person that you believe was responsible for the death of Nicole, does it?

A. I don't believe so.

Q. You don't say one word about it, do you?

A. I don't know who is responsible for it.

Q. In fact, you didn't believe it was you, did you?

A. I knew it wasn't me.

Q. And knowing that it's not you, as you've testified yesterday, you have no
explanation for any of the evidence, is that true?

MR. BAKER: Objection. Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. BREWER: I have nothing further. Thank you.


Q. Mr. Simpson, on January 1, 1989, after you had removed Nicole from your
bedroom the second time, she went downstairs before you, did she not?

A. Yes.

Q. And after she had been downstairs, she went out the back door prior to you
going up there, did she not?

A. The back door was open; yes.

Q. She went up before you?

A. Yes.

Q. And she also went into Michelle's bedroom before you, did she not?

She went out before you got up?

A. That's correct.

Q. After she had been in Michelle's bedroom, she left there before you, also,
did she not?

A. That's correct.

Q. And after she left Michelle's bedroom the second time, she remained hiding
out in the bushes till the police arrived, also, did she not?

A. I'm not aware that -- she left Michelle's bedroom on two occasions, and the
one occasion she went out. I don't know where she went.

Q. Well, she was outside when the police arrived, was she not?

A. That's what I'm told.

Q. Now, isn't it a fact, Mr. Simpson, that when you walked into Michelle's room
and she was on the phone, you hit her at that time?

A. No, that's not.

MR. KELLY: Steve, can you play Exhibit 1, please.

MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I object to playing the tape.

MR. KELLY: I'm not playing the whole thing, just ten seconds.

MR. BAKER: I don't care.

THE COURT: Overruled.

(Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1, 911 tape, is played.)

Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Can you stop.

Do you hear those screams, Mr. Simpson?

A. Yes.

Q. Is that Nicole?

A. I would assume so.

Q. Okay.

And if an experienced 911 operator testified that she could hear someone being
hit on the other end of the line --

MR. BAKER: I object. This is improper.

Q. -- would she be mistaken, Mr. Simpson?

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, when the police arrived, you didn't think they had a
reason to be there because you saw it as a family matter; is that correct?

A. I don't know if I had at the time, but when the police arrived they got
started in an argument with me.

Q. What I'm asking you, you basically saw that as a family matter at that time,
did you not?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay.

And you saw it a as a family matter because you basically just restrained
Nicole and wrestled with her a little bit, correct?

A. I don't think that was my testimony.

Q. Well, I'm asking you now, is that --

A. No.

Q. Is that how you view a family matter?

A. I said I was very, very physical in getting her out of the bedroom. And I
got her out of the bedroom, but it was very physical.

Q. Once again, my question to you is: When the police arrived, you saw it as a
family matter?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay.

Now, it's also your testimony that you left in your Rolls with the police there
because your daughter Arnelle, and Michelle, your housekeeper, didn't want you
in an argument with the police officers; is that correct?

A. That was part of it, yes. I made comments of that.

Q. And at the time you left, the police weren't even on your property, were

A. You know, I couldn't see them. They were on Ashford, so I didn't see where
they were. But I knew they were parked over on Ashford.

Q. But you never saw them on your property, did you?

A. I believe that Officer Edward, at one point, walked onto my property. But
when I left, they were outside the wall, I presume. I didn't know they were --
you know, I had assumed they were still outside the wall over there.

Q. They were outside the gate, also?

A. That's correct.

Q. And that's a big, six-foot iron gate?

A. I don't believe so.

Oh, you mean the wrought iron gate at the gate?

Then I had a wall. You couldn't see them through the gate, where they were
parked. They were behind the wall.

Q. In any event, you could have walked outside your house at this time, could
you not, Mr. Simpson?

A. Yes.

Q. But instead, you got in your Rolls and left. And in your mind, I believe you
indicated you felt you were free to leave then; is that correct?

A. Yes.

MR. BAKER: Asked and answered, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

Q. (BY MR. KELLY) And the police never told you, as you testified, that they
were going to place you under arrest at the time for spousal battery, correct?

A. Absolutely not.

Q. Okay.

And after you left there, you drove over to your friend, Alan Schwartz's house,
did you not?

A. Yes.

Q. How far is that from your house, Mr. Simpson?

A. A mile.

Q. Did you park on the street when you got there?

A. Yes.

Q. You didn't park in the driveway?

A. Maybe the driveway. I don't know.

There was a parking area that's right next to his garage, so I may have pulled
into that area.

Q. In fact, you did park there in that area, didn't you, Mr. Simpson?

A. I may have. I'm not certain. It's normally where I would park when I go to
his house.

Q. You didn't have a flat tire when you got there, did you?

A. No.

Q. You didn't run out of gas?

A. No.

Q. Okay.

Now, by the way, what year was this Rolls Royce?

A. I don't know.

Q. Was it a vintage car, an older car?

A. No.

Q. Okay.

And do you recall what the license plates were?

A. No.

Q. Okay.

Did you have your "juice" plates on it at that time?

A. No.

Q. Now, there came a time when a little later, after you had gone to Alan
Schwartz's house, that you went back to Rockingham, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And you drove Alan Schwartz's car back there, did you not?

A. Yes.

Q. When you drove Alan Schwartz's car back there, other than your Rolls Royce,
you didn't pull into your driveway, did you?

A. No.

Q. And you didn't park in front of the Rockingham gates, did you?

A. No.

Q. And you didn't park in front of the Ashford gate, did you?

A. No.

Q. In fact, you parked up the street on Ashford, on the opposite side facing
west, did you not?

A. No.

Q. Where did you park?

A. On Bristol.

Q. Parked on Bristol, actually, around the corner from Ashford?

A. Yes, at the house, on the other side --

Q. Okay.

A. -- of my house.

Q. And after you parked your car on Bristol, you then climbed over a fence on
the abutting property and then walked into your backyard, did you not?

A. No.

Q. Never climbed over a fence?

A. No.

Q. Okay.

And after you had gone through the Von Watts backyard -- that's what you did,
isn't it?

A. Tennis courts.

Q. And you went through your backyard, you went into your house again, did you

A. Yes.

Q. And you started up with Nicole a second time that night, didn't you, Mr.

A. No.

Q. You were having a fight with her again, weren't you, Mr. Simpson?

A. No.

Q. And in fact, Michelle, your housekeeper, called your dear friend, Al
Cowlings, to come over at this time, did she not?

A. I have no idea.

Q. Well, you don't know? You have no idea if Michelle called him, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Well, shortly after you arrived back in that house, Mr. Cowlings showed up,
did he not?

A. I believe so.

I think he was there. I'm pretty sure he was there.

Q. Okay.

He was there when you got there?

A. He was there, at one time, when I came back. I think I came back a few hours
after that, again, and he was there.

Q. So if Al Cowlings said he received a phone call to come over because you and
Nicole were fighting, he would be mistaken?

MR. BAKER: I would object to this. This is hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. BAKER: Improper --

Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Now, there came a time that you left --

By the way, when you left Rockingham, was Mr. Cowlings there, still, at that

A. I think at the time I left -- I just don't remember him being there at that
time. I think he was there the next time I came back. I just don't recall him
being there then.

Q. Well, the time you had gone over there in Alan Schwartz's car and left
again, did you leave carrying anything from the house when you left to go back
to Alan Schwartz's car?

A. I carried some clothes for the next day. I carried some jewelry that Nicole
had thrown all over the floor, and I carried it. I think that's about it.

Q. You carried a bag out of there, didn't you?

A. Pardon me?

Q. You carried that out of there in a bag, did you not?

A. I really think I just wrapped the clothes up and my jewelry.

I have a little thing that you fold over that I keep my jewelry in, some of
hers, and I put it back in that, yes.

Q. Okay.

So the black fold-up case?

A. Yeah.

It was only about this big (indicating), not really a case.

Q. And there was Nicole's jewelry you put in there?

A. No, mostly my jewelry. I put a couple pieces of hers.

Q. And when you left carrying that -- that case, you exited the back and went
into the Von Watts backyard?

A. Yeah. I went through the back gate and went out one of their gates.

Q. And it's your testimony that you didn't climb over the Von Watts fence again
to get to your car?

A. I didn't have to. They had two gates. Like my gates, they were always open.

Q. I'm asking you --

A. No, I did not.

Q. -- climb over a fence?

A. No.

Q. You never told Al Cowlings that you climbed over a fence at Von Watts to get
to the street?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay.

And when you got to Alan Schwartz's car, you were missing car keys, weren't

A. Yes.

Q. And in fact, when you were going through the backyard somewhere, you had
dropped these keys, correct?

A. Well, I didn't know if I had dropped them or if I had left them in my house.

Q. Oh, by the time you got back through Von Watts' property to Alan Schwartz's
car, you were missing the car keys, were you not?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay.

And you also had this bag in your possession, still, to transport to Schwartz's

A. Yes.

Q. And what, if anything, did you do with the bag at this time?

A. Well, while I was -- when I couldn't -- I didn't have a key, so I couldn't
get back in his car. So right where my car was parked was some foliage and a
garbage can, and I put the -- I just put the clothes next to it and I put the
bag underneath the lid, 'cause it was full, and I went back and tried to track
my way back.

I went back into my house. I didn't see it. I came back, traced myself back
again, looking for the key. And when I picked up my clothes and walked to
Alan's house, and I forgot the bag.

Q. You left it in a garbage can?

A. Yeah, the top of -- under a lid.

Q. Okay.

And when you got back to Schwartz's, you made a call to Al Cowlings, did you

A. I don't think so. I think Alan showed up at Schwartz's.

Q. In any event, when Cowlings showed up at Schwartz's, you told, or you asked
him to retrace your steps through VanWotts and through your backyard?

A. Yeah.

Q. First of all, to look for your car keys, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Isn't it a fact, first of all, Mr. Simpson, that he found those car keys at
the base of a fence in VanWotts' was the property?

A. I have no idea where he found them. He never told me where he found them.

But all our properties are surrounded by a fence, so -- and I know when I walk
there, I walked along the property and came through the gate, so I could have
dropped it there.

Q. And you also asked him to get the black bag out of the garbage can, did you

A. Actually, he was leaving, and I was getting up at that time, and I realized
the black bag wasn't with me. And I told him that my Rolex -- I left my Rolex
back there. I told him I -- where I thought I left it, and he got it.

Q. He got the black bag out of the garbage can?

A. Yeah, off the top lid.

Q. By the way, this house where you had put this black bag, it was in a garbage
can behind someone's house, was it not?

A. No, that's not correct.

Q. It wasn't on the street?

A. Yes. The way they kept their garbage is like I normally keep mine; it's -- I
have a wall and they didn't have a wall. I would say it's about 10 feet off the

Q. Up off the driveway?

A. Up the drive, 10 feet off the street, and it's sort of surrounded by hedges.

Q. So we're clear, when you drove Schwartz's car back, you parked on Bristol
around the corner; is that correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay. And you went through someone else's property to get to your property,

A. Yes. I walked through the Schwartz's, which I do often when we're walking
the dogs and things.

Q. You lost an item you were carrying at some point when you went through the
backyard also, did you not, Mr. Simpson?

A. As I said, I lost the keys.

Q. You lost something going through the backyard, Mr. Simpson?

A. I lost the keys. I don't know where I lost it. As I said, I don't know if
Alan ever told me where he found my keys in my yard, in my house, in the
backyard. I don't recall him ever telling me where he found the keys.

Q. Okay. And you basically hid a black bag in a garbage can also?

A. Yeah. I put the clothes there. I didn't think if I was looking for the keys
if anybody walked out because dogs were barking, they would take the clothes. I
didn't want them to take my -- My jewelry.

Q. When you parked the Schwartz car and went through VanWotts into your house,
as far as you know, nobody saw you, did they?

A. No dogs were barking at me but I don't think anybody saw me. It was 5
o'clock in the morning.

Q. Mr. Simpson, isn't this exactly what happened on June 12, 1994 that you went
over a fence, you dropped something, you hid a bag and you almost avoided
detection then also; isn't that correct, Mr. Simpson?

MR. BAKER: I object. That's argumentative, without foundation.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. That's incorrect. Plus I didn't go over a fence.

Q. And if Al Cowlings, your closest friend, says that you told him you went
over a fence he's lying; is that correct?

MR. BAKER: I object. That calls for hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. (BY MR. KELLY) And once again, it's your testimony that you, as you sit here
today, that when you pulled out of your driveway that morning, you did not know
you were to be arrested for spousal battery; is that correct?

MR. BAKER: Asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.


Q. (BY MR. KELLY) You felt free to leave?

MR. BAKER: Asked --

A. I left.

Q. (BY MR. KELLY) Okay.

And you're certain of that?

A. I'm certain I left, yes.

Q. And you're certain you were told you were going to be arrested?

A. They did not tell me I was going to get arrested.

Q. You're sure you never hit Nicole that New Year's Day?

A. I -- I'm certain I didn't hit her.

I was very physical.

Q. You're certain you didn't murder Nicole on June 12?

A. Absolutely not.

Q. By the way, if Nicole told AC that you had hit her, would she not be

MR. BAKER: This is hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. (BY MR. KELLY) If Nicole told AC that you pulled her hair, would she be
lying then?

MR. BAKER: Your Honor, this is --

THE COURT: Sustained.

Q. (BY MR. KELLY) By the way, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Cowlings has been one of your
closest friends since childhood, has he not?

A. My very best friend.

Q. Okay.

Played high school, college, pro football with him?

A. That's correct.

Q. And there were times, even when you were on the road, that he would live at
your house when Nicole was there, right?

A. When Nicole wasn't there, yes.

Q. And would it be fair to say that he and Nicole loved each other like a
brother and sister?

A. Very much so.

Q. Okay.

And, in fact, AC is the one who -- Al Cowlings drove you up the 405 before you
were placed under arrest the 17th; is that correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. And he was actually a pall bearer at Nicole's funeral?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, just one other thing Mr. Simpson:

You had testified as to a large number of phone calls you made to Judy Brown
right after Nicole left you in early '92, correct?

A. Virtually daily.

Q. Okay.

Sometimes you called her as much as five times a day?

A. I don't think so, 'cause she would call me sometimes, also.

Q. You talked to her a lot?

A. I talked to her for hours and hours

Q. After your divorce became final in '92, that sort of stopped; you didn't
keep making those phone calls, did you?

A. I think that stopped long before it became final.

We may have talked from time to time before that, but certainly after May, it
really wasn't nearly -- wasn't even close to what it had been before, and she
would call me from time to time.

Q. And is it a fact, Mr. Simpson that right after May 22, when Nicole had given
you back the earrings and the diamond bracelet, and told you she didn't want to
have anything to do with you anymore, you made one final call to Judy Brown?

A. First of all, that didn't happen. What you're claiming didn't happen.

Q. So that's not true?

A. Not true.

Q. After you received the earrings and diamond bracelet back from Nicole, did
you make a phone call to Judy Brown?

A. I may have talked to her that week, yes.

Q. Isn't it true you may have said something to the effect, Judy, the first
time it's my fault, but this time it's really going to hurt, Judy.

Do you remember saying something to that effect to her?

A. Absolutely not.

Q. And Judy, in turn, just told you to let her go, let Nicole go, and get on
with her life? Did she say that to you?

MR. BAKER: That's hearsay.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. That's absolutely not true. Judy was continually telling me about her
concerns for Nicole, just like Nicole's other friends are -- were telling me at
this time.

Q. And you did make it hurt for Nicole at the end, didn't you, Mr. Simpson?

A. I believe Nicole wanted us back together at that time, so I imagine by her
actions, it hurt her a little bit, yes.

Q. Well, you did more than that; you murdered her on June 12, didn't you, Mr.

A. That's absolutely false.

Q. And you murdered Ron Goldman?

A. That's absolutely wrong.

MR. KELLY: I have no further questions, Your Honor.

MR. BAKER: Can we take a short break?

THE COURT: Ten-minute recess.


(The jurors resumed their respective seats.)

MR. BAKER: Your Honor, I apologize. I've changed my mind. I will put Mr.
Simpson on and go through his whole testimony in our case later in December.


MR. PETROCELLI: Your Honor, I'm sorry.

THE COURT: You may step down.


MR. PETROCELLI: As discussed in chambers yesterday, we'll be prepared to call
the remaining witnesses in our case on Tuesday, when we resume.


Ladies and gentlemen, we'll adjourn until Tuesday at 8:30.

Remember the admonition I gave you at the start of this morning's session.
Don't allow yourselves to be grilled about anything connected with your
participation in this case, by any of your friends or family members over the

Excuse me.

Don't watch any news or read anything about this case.

Have a very happy Thanksgiving.

Thank you very much.

JURORS: Thank you, Your Honor.

You too, Judge.

(At 10:02 A.M. an adjournment was taken until Tuesday, December 3, 1996, at
8:30 A.M.)