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LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 1995 9:35 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.) (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN CAMERA:) THE COURT: WE ARE IN CHAMBERS. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. WE WANTED TO COME IN FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.) MR. COCHRAN: A COUPLE THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD LIKE WHEN COURT STARTS TO MAKE A STATEMENT WITH REGARD TO THE WHOLE WESTEC FIASCO YESTERDAY. WE GOT SO MANY CALLS, EVEN FROM COUNSELORS AT CHINO, SOON TO BE RELEASED BURGLARS AND THINGS, ARE NATURALLY WATCHING YESTERDAY AND THEY FOUND OUT THE HOUSE WAS NOT WIRED. THE SENSITIVITY OF THE PROSECUTION, THANKS TO THAT -- ALLOWING THAT WORTHLESS TESTIMONY, WE HAD TO REWIRE THE HOUSE. I'VE GOT TO MAKE SOME STATEMENT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE LIVING THERE AND ARE QUITE WORRIED AND QUITE CONCERNED. THEY HAVE HAD TO REWIRE LAST NIGHT. MR. DOUGLAS: 24-HOUR GUARDS. MR. COCHRAN: GUARDS THIS WEEKEND, SO I HAVE TO MAKE SURE THE BURGLARS STAY AWAY. MR. SHAPIRO: THAT IS NOT FUNNY. MS. CLARK: I NEVER THOUGHT OF IT. MR. COCHRAN: IT IS NOT FUNNY AT ALL AND BURGLARS CALL AND TELL YOU. MS. CLARK: DID THEY REALLY? MR. COCHRAN: THE COUNSELOR FROM CHINO CALLED AND SAID YOU BETTER DO SOMETHING, THE BURGLARS WERE HERE TAKING NOTES. MR. DARDEN: WHY DO YOU HAVE TO CALL ME INSENSITIVE ABOUT THAT? WE HAD A BOARD, WE ARE LOOKING AT THE BOARD FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS. EVERYBODY KNEW THE WITNESS WAS COMING. I DON'T WANT TO PUT THE MAN'S PROPERTY IN SOME TYPE OF JEOPARDY OR HARM'S WAY. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE A STATEMENT, IN LIGHT OF THAT DEVELOPMENT, THAT THE HOUSE HAS BEEN REWIRED AND THERE ARE GUARDS? MR. COCHRAN: YES. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MS. CLARK: WE WOULD NEVER HAVE DREAMED OF PUTTING THAT -- THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MS. CLARK: WE KNOW WHAT WE COULD HAVE DONE, PUT IT ON AND SAID THAT WAS THE STATE OF THE SECURITY SYSTEM BACK IN, DA, DA, DA. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS WIRED. YOU CAN THINK FIX IT WITH A STATEMENT. MR. DARDEN: I ONLY ASKED HIM ON JUNE THE 12TH. MR. COCHRAN: EVEN THINGS WE AGREE ON TAKE A LONG TIME. THE COURT: WE WILL ALLOW YOU TO MAKE A PSA. MR. COCHRAN: I'M FINE. ANOTHER THING IS WE WANT TO HAVE A HEARING WITH REGARD TO THIS TAPE. THE COURT: OKAY. MR. COCHRAN: I HAVEN'T SEEN ALL OF IT, BUT I SAW PART OF IT. WE WANT TO HAVE A HEARING AND LIKE TO PROCEED WITH THAT. WE WOULD ANTICIPATE CALLING FOUR WITNESSES; MR. FORD, MR. ATKINS, MR. LUPER AND MR. HARPER, AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL TAKE VERY LONG. MR. DOUGLAS: AND JUDGE ITO, IF THE TAPE IS PLAYED, WE WOULD ASK THAT THE FEED BE CUT AS WELL FOR THE SAME REASONS. MR. COCHRAN: IT IS HIS HOUSE AT THIS POINT. WE ARE GOING TO SHOW IT FOR THE HEARING. YOU HAVE SEEN IT FOUR TIMES. THE COURT: FIVE NOW. MR. COCHRAN: YES. YOU HAVE NOW, BUT I SAID WE DON'T WANT IT GOING OUT, OBVIOUSLY, AT THIS POINT, SO THAT IS WHAT WE WANT TO DO. WE WANT TO INDICATE FOR THE COURT THANKS FOR THE OPPORTUNITY. WE GOT HERE EARLIER. THE COURT: LET ME ASK YOU THIS, NOW THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THE TAPE, YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS, YOU HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO THE PARTICIPANTS, AND OBVIOUSLY IT IS A LATE DISCLOSURE. MR. COCHRAN: IT IS THE LATEST OF ALL. MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS -- THE COURT: LET'S ASSUME WE ALL AGREE THAT IT IS A LATE DISCLOSURE. MR. COCHRAN: YES. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHAT SANCTION ARE YOU SEEKING? MR. COCHRAN: I DON'T KNOW YET, JUDGE. I DON'T KNOW. I THINK -- YOU KNOW HOW YOU LIKE TO SLEEP ON THESE THINGS AND YOU KNOW HOW YOU LIKE TO HAVE SOMETHING IN WRITING? THE COURT: UH-HUH. MR. COCHRAN: WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU SLEEP ON IT AND GIVE YOU SOMETHING IN WRITING. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I DON'T NEED TO SLEEP ON THE FACT THAT I KNOW IT IS LATE. I KNOW IT IS LATE. THE COURT: WELL, EVEN IF THEY WILL STIPULATE IT IS LATE -- MR. COCHRAN: THEY WILL STIPULATE IT IS LATE. THE COURT: I KNOW THAT IT HAS TO DO WITH INTERESTING THINGS. MR. COCHRAN: YES, IT DOES. YOU HAVE SEEN IT, SO WE WILL LET YOU KNOW. IS MONDAY TOO LATE OR MUST YOU KNOW TODAY? THE COURT: NO. I'M JUST ASKING WHAT -- WHY DO WE NEED A HEARING IF I AGREE THAT IT IS -- MR. COCHRAN: WE NEED A HEARING. THE COURT: -- THAT IT IS MATERIAL AND IT WAS LATE -- (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) THE COURT: -- BEING TURNED OVER? MR. COCHRAN: THERE ARE -- MR. SHAPIRO HAS AN IDEA, BUT -- MR. DARDEN: D.A. BASHING. MR. COCHRAN: D.A. BASHING, NO, NO. THE REASON WE NEED THE HEARING, YOUR HONOR, BECAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THIS THING -- YOU KNOW, THE FACT IT MAY BE THEIR BURDEN, THERE IS A LOT OF STUFF ON THAT TAPE SO WE NEED TO -- THERE IS A LOT OF STUFF ON THAT TAPE AND HOW IT CAME ABOUT. SO THE HEARING IS NECESSARY, BECAUSE -- FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE FULL IMPORT OF WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW THE TAPE CAME UP. WE ARE NOT GOING TO WASTE TIME ON IT. THE COURT: WELL, LET'S ASSUME THAT I AGREE THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TURNED OVER A LONG TIME AGO -- MR. COCHRAN: BUT YOU WON'T KNOW ALL THE FACTS OR ALL THE INTERACTION UNTIL SUCH TIME AS YOU HEAR CERTAIN THINGS. IT IS NOT A WASTING TIME THING, JUDGE. I THINK WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS. THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU GIVE ME A PREVIEW AS TO WHAT YOU THINK I NEED TO KNOW BEYOND THAT IT WAS LATE BEING TURNED OVER. MR. COCHRAN: I THINK THE TIME THIS THING WAS SHOT. THE COURT: I KNOW WHEN IT WAS SHOT. MR. COCHRAN: YOU SAW THE TIME ON THERE, BUT I THINK THERE IS MORE TO IT. WHAT TIME THEY GOT IT, HOW LONG IT WAS SHOT, WHEN THE PEOPLE KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT, WHAT HAPPENED TO IT DURING THAT TIME, WHAT REPRESENTATIONS WERE MADE. AND EVEN IN THE SHOW AND TELL BACK HERE AT THE TIME OF THE OPENING STATEMENTS ABOUT IT, WELL, THESE PROSECUTORS KNEW ABOUT IT. JUST THE WHOLE ASPECT. WE WANT TO LIKE TAKE YOU THROUGH ACTUALLY WHAT HAPPENED WITHOUT WASTING A LOT OF TIME, BECAUSE YOU ARE RIGHT, IT COMES OUT THAT IT IS LATE, YOU KNOW, AS ONE WHO HAS FELT THE STING OF YOUR SANCTIONS, I THINK YOU NEED TO KNOW ALL THE FACTS ON THESE THINGS. AND I THINK WE CAN HELP WITH THAT, JUDGE. THAT IS THE ONLY POINT. I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF SPEAKING TO EACH ONE OF THESE FOUR PEOPLE THIS MORNING AND I THINK IT IS VERY HELPFUL, WON'T TAKE LONG, AND I THINK WE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO THIS. AND THEN AT THE END OF THE DAY WE HAVE A BETTER SENSE -- THERE HAS BEEN AN EFFORT TO DISGORGE THE TAPES. NOW WE HAVE A COUPLE MORE AND WE HAVE ASKING FOR TAPES ALL ALONG. THE WHOLE ISSUE COMES DOWN TO BRADY MATERIAL AND WE THINK THERE IS A REAL PROBLEM IN THIS CASE OF WHETHER WE ARE EVER GOING TO GET ALL THE BRADY MATERIAL. MS. LEWIS: LET ME JUST INTERJECT. THIS IS NOT BRADY MATERIAL. THERE IS NOTHING EXCULPATORY ABOUT IT. WE DIDN'T INTEND TO USE IT IN TRIAL. WE ONLY KNEW OF HIS EXISTENCE IN THE LAST FEW DAYS. AND WHEN THE COURT SAYS THAT IT IS LATE, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED, YOUR HONOR, BECAUSE THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT DISCOVERABLE UNDER THE DISCOVERY LAWS. MR. COCHRAN: JUDGE, JUDGE, CAN WE JUST FINISH SOME THOUGHT? YOU ARE ASKING ME SOME QUESTIONS. THAT IS WHY YOU NEED TO HAVE A HEARING, BECAUSE MISS LEWIS' ATTITUDE GOT US HERE. WHEN THERE IS A DISCOVERY VIOLATION IN THE PAST I SEEM TO SENSE YOU FELT CONTRITENESS WAS APPROPRIATE, WHICH IS WHAT I HAVE PICKED UP IN THIS COURT. BUT JUDGE, YOU NEED TO ALLOW US THIS BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE SEQUENCE, AND THEN WE WILL MOVE ON. YOU KNOW, MOVE IN AND OUT, BUT AS A SAYING, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THIS IS BRADY MATERIAL IS NOT UP TO PROSECUTION TO DETERMINE. THE COURT: I AGREE. MR. NEUFELD: JUDGE -- MR. COCHRAN: YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE THAT JUDGMENT. MR. NEUFELD: JUST ONE ILLUSTRATION. THE COURT: ONE SPEAKER PER SIDE ON EACH ISSUE. BRIEF HEARING, HALF HOUR. MR. COCHRAN: PUT ALL THESE LIMITS ON, JUDGE. OKAY. AT LEAST I GET A HEARING. OKAY. THIRTY MINUTES. IF I'M A LITTLE OVER -- THE COURT: MISS LEWIS. MS. LEWIS: WELL, IF THE COURT REALLY DOES RESTRICT TO IT A SHORT HEARING, BUT I WAS PRESENT THROUGHOUT THE INTERVIEWS MR. COCHRAN HAD WITH THESE PEOPLE, AND THERE IS NOTHING SALIENT TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE COURT WHICH HE COULDN'T SUM UP IN FIVE MINUTES AS FAR AS WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE TAPE. MR. COCHRAN: JUDGE, COULD MISS LEWIS HELP US A LOT -- THE COURT: LET'S JUST DO IT. WE WILL WASTE MORE TIME ARGUING ABOUT IT -- MR. COCHRAN: YES. THE COURT: -- THAN DOING IT. MR. COCHRAN: THAT YOU KNOW, JUDGE. MS. CLARK: THE ONLY PROBLEM IS HALF AN HOUR. JOHNNIE CAN'T SAY HELLO IN HALF AN HOUR. MR. COCHRAN: HELLO, MARCIA. THE COURT: LET'S DO IT. MR. COCHRAN: CAN MISS LEWIS TAKE HER PIN OFF ALSO? MS. CLARK: THE -- MS. LEWIS: THE JURY IS NOT HERE. MR. DARDEN: THE JURY IS HERE. MS. LEWIS: THEY WON'T BE HERE FOR THIS HEARING. MR. DARDEN: MR. CALE IS HERE. THE COURT: IS HE ILL? MR. DARDEN: HE IS ILL. THE COURT: WE WILL PUT HIM ON FIRST AND THEN DO THE HEARING. MR. DARDEN: MR. CALE. MR. COCHRAN: DIFFERENT SUBJECT, SO SHAPIRO IS GOING TO TALK ON THIS. MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, YESTERDAY I PUT IN PERSONALLY SEVERAL PHONE CALLS TO MR. CALE. SARA CAPLAN PUT IN THREE TO HIS SECRETARY. WE WERE TOLD THAT HE HAD NOT BEEN SERVED, THAT HE WAS NOT COMING TO COURT AND THAT HE WAS ILL WITH PNEUMONIA. I FINALLY HAD ONE OF NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS CALL HIM ON MY BEHALF. HIS WIFE SAID HE WAS SLEEPING AND SHE HAD NO IDEA THAT HE WAS DUE IN COURT. HE THEN CALLED BACK THE NEIGHBOR AND SAID, "WHAT DO YOU WANT?" AND HE SAID, "WELL, MR. SHAPIRO HAS CALLED ME AND ASKED ME GET A MESSAGE TO YOU." I GAVE HIM MY HOME NUMBER AND I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SPEAK TO HIM. TODAY MR. DARDEN SAID HE WOULD SPEAK WITH ME THIS MORNING AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH HIM. MR. DARDEN: THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID AT ALL. I SAID WOULD YOU COME OVER AND SPEAK WITH MR. CALE ALONG WITH MYSELF. MR. CALE IS ILL. HE WANTED YOU TO BE AWARE OF THAT AND I THINK HE ALSO WANTED YOU TO BE AWARE OF WHY IT WAS THAT HE DID NOT SPEAK WITH YOU LAST NIGHT, BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, HE IS ILL AND -- THE COURT: OKAY. MR. DARDEN: -- HE HAS INDICATED TO ME -- THE COURT: IS HE WILLING TO JUST CHAT FOR A FEW MOMENTS WITH MR. SHAPIRO? MR. DARDEN: I'M SURE HE IS. HE HAS INDICATED TO ME, AND I THINK HE WOULD LIKE TO EXPRESS THIS TO MR. SHAPIRO AS WELL, THAT HE WOULD LIKE -- NOT LIKE TO HAVE HIS ADDRESS PUBLISHED FOR THE WORLD. MR. COCHRAN: HOUSE REWIRED. THE COURT: LET'S DO THIS THEN: MR. SHAPIRO -- MR. SHAPIRO: HIS ADDRESS IS RELEVANT. THE COURT: WELL, HOW MANY HOUSES AWAY. MR. SHAPIRO: WELL, WE ARE GOING TO KNOW HIS EXACT ADDRESS. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO. MR. DARDEN: WELL, YOU KNOW. MR. SHAPIRO: WE ARE GOING TO TRACE WHERE HIS HOUSE IS, WHERE HE WALKED HIS DOG, WHERE HE WALKED HIS DOG THAT DAY, AND WE ARE GOING TO GO HOUSE BY HOUSE, SO WE ARE GOING TO START SIX HOUSES AWAY SO HIS ADDRESS -- MR. DARDEN: HE JUST PUT IT ON THE RECORD NOW. THAT IS WHY PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU, OKAY, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, YOU MAKE THESE RIDICULOUS COMMENTS AND TRY TO DETER PEOPLE FROM COMING FORWARD TO TESTIFY. THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, LET'S GET STARTED. IF YOU WANT MR. CALE TO TESTIFY RIGHT AWAY, LET'S START AT TEN O'CLOCK. IT IS A QUARTER UNTIL RIGHT NOW. LET'S HAVE MR. SHAPIRO AND YOU GO OUT AND CHAT BRIEFLY WITH MR. CALE. WE WILL START WITH MR. CALE, THEN WE WILL TAKE A RECESS WITH THE JURY, WE WILL DO OUR LITTLE HEARING AND THEN WE WILL START WITH MR. FUNG, HOPEFULLY FOR AN HOUR OR SO TODAY. MR. COCHRAN: STOPPING AT 12:00? OKAY. WE ARE GOING TO PROCEED WITH FUNG? I DIDN'T GET EVERYTHING YESTERDAY. THE COURT: I ASSUME. I ASSUME. MR. NEUFELD: JUDGE -- THE COURT: YES. MR. NEUFELD: BEFORE WE START WITH MR. FUNG, THOUGH, FIRST WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS WE HAVE TO REVIEW THE BOARDS THAT THEY INTEND TO USE. THE COURT: THAT IS WHY I ASSUME THAT THEY ARE THERE RIGHT NOW. MS. LEWIS: I THOUGHT THAT IS WHAT HE ALSO LOOKED UP AT OUR BOARDS. MR. NEUFELD: I LOOKED AT THEM, BUT WE WANT TO GO ON THE RECORD AND EXPRESS CERTAIN OBJECTIONS BEFORE THE COURT RULES ON THAT, SO THAT IS WHY THAT HAPPENS. THE COURT: I AM AWARE OF THAT. ALL RIGHT. GO OUT AND TALK TO THIS GUY AND WE WILL START PROMPTLY AT 10:00. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD.) (AT 9:46 A.M. THE PROCEEDINGS IN CAMERA WERE CONCLUDED.) LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 1995 10:00 A.M. DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.) (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. DEFENDANT IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. NEUFELD, MR. DOUGLAS, PEOPLE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. COUNSEL, IS THERE ANYTHING WE NEED TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE -- MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: -- ASK THE JURY TO JOIN US? MR. COCHRAN. MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, THERE'S AN EVEN QUICKER MATTER. THERE'S ANOTHER ATTORNEY HERE WHO IS REPRESENTING MARGUERITE SIMPSON THOMAS. THERE WAS A BENCH WARRANT ISSUED AND HELD UNTIL TODAY, AND IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING MR. DARDEN AND THAT ATTORNEY WHOSE NAME ESCAPES ME HAVE AGREED ON MAY 5TH. THE COURT: MS. HAMBURGER. MAY 5? MS. LEWIS: MAY 5. THE COURT: CINCO DE MAYO? MS. HAMBURGER: YES. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BENCH WARRANT -- IS THAT DATE AGREEABLE TO YOUR CALENDAR, COUNSEL? MS. HAMBURGER: YES, THAT WOULD BE FINE. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BENCH WARRANT WILL CONTINUED TO BE HELD -- ISSUED AND HELD TO THAT DATE. MS. HAMBURGER: THANK YOU. THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. COCHRAN: MAY I ADDRESS THE COURT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN. GOOD MORNING. MR. COCHRAN: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. YOUR HONOR, YESTERDAY, THERE WAS A WITNESS CALLED BY WESTEC; AND IN THE COURSE OF THE PROCEEDINGS, MUCH WAS MADE OF THE SECURITY SYSTEM IN MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S HOME. AND AS THE COURT KNOWS, IN THIS CASE, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WATCHING IN. AND WE RECEIVED A NUMBER OF CALLS FROM PEOPLE WHO WERE CONCERNED, SOME OF WHOM WERE EVEN IN STATE PRISON ABOUT KNOWING ABOUT MR. SIMPSON'S SECURITY SYSTEM. AND I WANTED TO INDICATE FOR THE RECORD THAT DUE TO THIS TESTIMONY REGARDING WESTEC, MR. SIMPSON'S SECURITY SYSTEM HAS NOW BEEN TOTALLY CHANGED AND THERE ARE ARMED GUARDS ON THE PROPERTY. I MENTION THIS BECAUSE WE ALWAYS HAVE CONCERN FOR SECURITY. THE COURT KNOWS THERE ARE STILL OCCUPANTS OF THAT HOME, AND I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT EVERYONE KNOW THAT AT HIS OWN EXPENSE, MR. SIMPSON HAS DONE THIS AND HE HAS A STRONG DESIRE TO NOT HAVE HIS PROPERTY INVADED OR INTRUDED AND THAT HIS RIGHTS OF PRIVACY ARE PROTECTED AND HE HAS PAID OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET TO HAVE THAT ENTIRE SYSTEM REVAMPED AND RECONFIGURED AS OF LAST NIGHT. SO I GUESS IT'S KIND OF A LITTLE BURGLARS BEWARE IF THE COURT PLEASES. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, GOOD MORNING. ARE YOU READY TO PROCEED WITH YOUR NEXT WITNESS? MR. DARDEN: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US? MR. COCHRAN: NO, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THE JURY: GOOD MORNING. THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT WE'VE BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. MR. DARDEN, YOU MAY CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS. MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. GOOD LADY -- GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THE JURY: GOOD MORNING. THE COURT: IT'S FRIDAY. MR. DARDEN: YES, IT IS FRIDAY, ISN'T IT? THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE PEOPLE CALL CHARLES CALE. CHARLES CALE, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: THE COURT: MR. CALE, WOULD YOU COME FORWARD, PLEASE. THE CLERK: SIR, CAN YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? THE WITNESS: I DO. THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND. PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD. THE WITNESS: MY NAME IS CHARLES CALE, C-A-L-E. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN: Q: GOOD MORNING, SIR. MR. CALE, ON JULY 12 AND JUNE 13, 1994, DID YOU LIVE IN BRENTWOOD? A: YES, SIR, I DID. Q: AND DURING THE MONTH OF JUNE 1994, WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE DEFENDANT'S OR RATHER THE LOCATION OF THE DEFENDANT'S HOME AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM? A: YES, SIR. Q: HAD YOU BEEN TO THAT RESIDENCE BEFORE? A: I'VE BEEN BY IT. I'VE BEEN ON THE PROPERTY ON HOLIDAY, SOMETHING OF THAT SORT. Q: AND ARE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH THE DEFENDANT O.J. SIMPSON? A: WE'VE SEEN EACH OTHER IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND I KNOW HIM FROM PASSING AND -- Q: DID YOU OWN A DOG ON JUNE 12? A: YES, SIR, I DID. STILL DO. Q: OKAY. AND DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE MORNING FOLLOWING THE MURDERS OF RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN -- AND THIS WILL BE MONDAY, JUNE 13, 1994 -- ON THAT DATE, AT APPROXIMATELY 7:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, WERE YOU ON ROCKINGHAM? A: YES, SIR, I WAS. Q: OKAY. WERE YOU IN A CAR? A: YES, SIR. Q: WERE YOU ALONE? A: NO. I WAS HAVING SOMEBODY DRIVE WITH ME TO THE AIRPORT TO TAKE MY CAR BACK HOME. Q: OKAY. SO YOU WERE EN ROUTE TO THE AIRPORT? A: CORRECT. Q: OKAY. AND ON THAT DAY, MONDAY, JUNE 13, AT 7:00 A.M. IN THE MORNING, DID YOU DRIVE DOWN ROCKINGHAM? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU PASS THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. NOW, FROM WHICH DIRECTION WERE YOU -- WERE YOU DRIVING? A: I WAS DRIVING FROM NORTH TO SOUTH. Q: OKAY. SO YOU WERE -- STRIKE THAT. AND AS YOU APPROACHED THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE, DID YOU HAVE TO PASS THROUGH THE INTERSECTION AT ASHFORD? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU PASS THROUGH THAT INTERSECTION? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. NOW, YOU'VE BEEN AT THAT INTERSECTION BEFORE AT ROCKINGHAM AND ASHFORD; IS THAT RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: OKAY. AND I TAKE IT THAT YOU PASSED THROUGH THE INTERSECTION ON YOUR WAY DOWN TO SUNSET BOULEVARD? A: THAT IS CORRECT. THAT'S -- Q: AND IS THERE A PATH OR COURSE THAT YOU USUALLY TAKE AS YOU DRIVE DOWN TO SUNSET? A: YES, SIR, THERE IS. Q: DO YOU USUALLY PASS THROUGH THE INTERSECTION AT ROCKINGHAM? A: USUALLY I WOULD TURN LEFT IF I WERE GOING TO BE GOING EAST ON SUNSET TO GO ACROSS TO CLIFFWOOD AND TURN LEFT AT CLIFFWOOD BECAUSE THERE'S A LIGHT AND YOU CAN'T TURN LEFT ONTO SUNSET FROM -- FROM ROCKINGHAM IF YOU'RE GOING DOWN THAT WAY. THERE'S NO LEFT TURN SIGN. Q: NOW, DO I UNDERSTAND YOU TO SAY THAT YOU USUALLY TURN LEFT AT ASHFORD? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. DID YOU TURN LEFT AT ASHFORD THAT MONDAY MORNING? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND WHY NOT? A: BECAUSE I SAW A BLACK AND WHITE PATROL CAR, POLICE CAR PARKED IN THE -- IN THE STREET JUST EAST OF -- OF ROCKINGHAM ON ASHFORD BETWEEN THE CORNER AND THE GATE AND THE ENTRANCE INTO MR. SIMPSON'S HOME ON ASHFORD. Q: OKAY. SO YOU COULDN'T TURN LEFT? A: COULD HAVE TURNED LEFT AND GONE AROUND, BUT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN -- WE HAD TO GO OUT OF THE WAY OR OFF INTO THE LEFT LANE. Q: AND SO DID YOU CONTINUE SOUTH ON ROCKINGHAM? A: YES, SIR, WE DID. Q: DID YOU PASS THE DEFENDANT'S GATE, THE GATE TO HIS RESIDENCE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM? A: YES, SIR, I DID. Q: AND AS YOU DID SO, DID YOU NOTICE A VEHICLE AT ALL? A: I DID. I NOTICED THE FORD -- THE WHITE FORD BRONCO. Q: AND WHERE WAS THE WHITE FORD BRONCO WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT THAT MONDAY MORNING? A: IT WAS JUST TO THE NORTH OF THE DRIVEWAY, THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY PARKED AT KIND OF A STRANGE ANGLE WITH THE REAR OUT FROM THE CURB A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN NORMAL. Q: AND DID YOU PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO THE BRONCO? A: I -- YES, SIR. I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE IT, AND SO I NOTICED IT. Q: OKAY. WHY WERE YOU SURPRISED TO SEE THE BRONCO AT THAT TIME? A: WELL, VERY SELDOM IF EVER HAD IT BEEN PARKED THERE. IN FACT, SELDOM IF EVER WERE ANY CARS PARKED ON THE ROCKINGHAM SIDE OF THE STREET AS I WENT ALONG FROM THE PAST, AND I NOTICED THAT -- I NOTICED THAT IT WAS PARKED AT SORT OF A STRANGE ANGLE. I MEAN YOU COULD TELL IT WAS OUT -- THE REAR WHEELS WERE OUT A LITTLE BIT, AND ALSO I HAD -- I HAD NOT NOTICED IT THE PRIOR DAY, PRIOR EVENING. Q: YOU HAD NOT NOTICED THE BRONCO PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM THE PRIOR EVENING? A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: OKAY. WERE YOU OUTSIDE THE PRIOR EVENING? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. THIS WOULD BE MONDAY OR RATHER SUNDAY NIGHT, JUNE 12TH. A: SUNDAY EVENING, JULY 12TH, YEAH. Q: AND WHY WERE YOU OUT SUNDAY EVENING, JUNE 12? A: WELL, I HAD TAKEN MY DOG FOR A WALK. I HAD BEEN PACKING TO GET READY TO GO TO THE TRIP EARLY THE NEXT MORNING, AND I TOOK THE DOG OUT FOR A SHORT WALK AND HAD BEEN WALKING ON ROCKINGHAM. AND WHEN I WAS WALKING, I HADN'T SEEN THEM, THE BRONCO. Q: OKAY. NOW, WHAT TIME WAS IT IF YOU RECALL THAT YOU WALKED YOUR DOG SUNDAY EVENING? A: ABOUT 9:30, 9:45 PERIOD. Q: AND SO DURING THIS TIME PERIOD, 9:30 TO 9:45, YOU SAY YOU DIDN'T SEE THE BRONCO ON ROCKINGHAM? A: YES, SIR. I DID NOT SEE THE BRONCO ON ROCKINGHAM. Q: OKAY. NOW, FROM WHICH DIRECTION WERE YOU WALKING WITH YOUR DOG? A: I WAS WALKING FROM NORTH TO SOUTH. Q: NORTH TO SOUTH ON ROCKINGHAM? A: THAT IS CORRECT. AND THEN I RETURNED AND WALKED BACK SOUTH TO NORTH. Q: OKAY. DID YOU EVER PASS THE DEFENDANT'S HOME AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM; THAT IS, SUNDAY NIGHT? A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT. Q: OKAY. HOW CLOSE DID YOU COME TO DEFENDANT'S GATE LOCATED ON ROCKINGHAM SUNDAY NIGHT? A: I WOULD ESTIMATE ABOUT 60 YARDS PROBABLY. Q: NOW, YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO THAT SELDOM IF EVER HAVE YOU SEEN THE BRONCO PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM. A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN THE BRONCO PARKED AT OTHER LOCATIONS? A: YES, SIR. ON -- ON ASHFORD ON OCCASION. MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. DARDEN: I AM MISSING MR. FAIRTLOUGH AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. MS. CLARK: MAY I -- THE COURT: YES. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, YOU WANT TO JUST PROCEED WITH THE NORMAL PHOTOGRAPHS? MR. DARDEN: I AM SORRY? THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO PROCEED WITH THE NORMAL PHOTOGRAPHS AND JUST DO IT THE OLD FASHION WAY? MR. DARDEN: YES, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MR. CALE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AT THE TIME YOU JUST INDICATED, YOU JUST TOLD US THAT YOU WERE OUT AT AROUND 9:30 TO 9:45 P.M. SUNDAY EVENING? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND -- MR. SHAPIRO: I AM SORRY, YOUR HONOR. I DIDN'T HEAR THE QUESTION. MAY IT BE REPEATED? THE COURT: SHOULD BE RIGHT THERE. MR. SHAPIRO: OH. MAY I JUST HAVE A MOMENT, PLEASE? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR. APPRECIATE IT. THE COURT: MR. DARDEN. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WERE OUT AROUND 9:30 TO 9:45 P.M. SUNDAY NIGHT. A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND HOW WAS IT THAT YOU ARRIVED AT THAT TIME; THAT IS THE 9:30 TO 9:45 P.M. TIME? A: WELL, I -- I HAD COME BACK EARLIER IN THE EVENING WITH ONE OF MY CHILDREN, AND WE HAD HAD DINNER AND THEN I HAD STARTED TO PACK FOR MY TRIP THE NEXT MORNING, PUT MY MATERIALS TOGETHER TO GO ON THIS TRIP. I KNOW THAT I CAME BACK AND WENT TO BED SHORTLY ABOUT 10:00 O'CLOCK OR VERY SHORTLY THEREAFTER BECAUSE I HAD TO GET UP EARLY THE NEXT MORNING, AND I KNOW THAT WHEN I GOT BACK WITH THE PACKING AND BEFORE I WENT TO BED, I WENT OUT FOR A SHORT WALK. AND THAT'S THE BEST ESTIMATION I CAN HAVE, IS ABOUT BETWEEN 9:30 AND 9:45. Q: SIR, HOW CERTAIN ARE YOU THAT THE BRONCO WAS NOT PARKED NEAR THE GATE AT ROCKINGHAM THAT SUNDAY EVENING? A: I'M VERY CERTAIN. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: PERHAPS MR. HARRIS CAN ASSIST YOU WITH THAT. MR. DARDEN: IF I CAN JUST SHOW IT TO MR. SHAPIRO. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: MR. DARDEN. MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH HERE, AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH. MAY IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER? THE COURT: 157. (PEO'S 157 FOR ID = AERIAL PHOTO) MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: YOU WANT TO JUST TAKE IT OUT AND USE IT ON THE ELMO? (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU SEE YOUR MONITOR THERE, MR. CALE? THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: LOOKING AT THAT PHOTOGRAPH, MR. CALE, CAN YOU -- CAN YOU INDICATE FOR US THE POINT OR RATHER THE CLOSEST POINT YOU CAME TO THE DEFENDANT'S GATE ON ROCKINGHAM? A: WELL, I'LL JUST HAVE TO ALIGN MYSELF HERE. IT WOULD BE -- IT WAS IN THE AREA OF, AS YOU LOOK AT ROCKINGHAM, ABOUT A LITTLE FARTHER THAN HALFWAY UP ON THE TOP TO BOTTOM LINE HERE. YOU SEE THERE'S A -- THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S SORT OF RED, A VEHICLE OF SOME SORT THAT'S RED AND THEN -- WHICH WOULD BE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE STREET, AND THEN IF YOU COME ACROSS DIAGONALLY, THERE'S A CAR, LOOKS LIKE A CAR, LIGHTER COLORED CAR ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE STREET. Q: MR. CALE, WE'RE GOING TO PLACE AN ARROW ON THE SCREEN, AND IF YOU WILL, PLEASE DIRECT THE ARROW. A: OKAY. BRING THE ARROW NORTH ON ROCKINGHAM, FARTHER, AND THEN GO TO THE RIGHT THERE. SO A LINE FROM THAT -- FROM THAT VEHICLE ACROSS TO THE LEFT TO THE VEHICLE ON THE WEST SIDE OF ROCKINGHAM DOWN HERE (INDICATING). Q: SO YOU'RE -- YOU ARE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STREET? A: NO. THAT -- THAT LINE IN THERE. RIGHT -- RIGHT -- GOING ALL THE WAY TO THE OTHER -- TO THE CORNER. RIGHT IN THERE, THAT AREA (INDICATING). Q: RIGHT THERE. OKAY. CAN WE COME BACK AND JUST PLACE THE ARROW? A: I WOULD SAY THAT WOULD BE THE -- THAT'S THE GENERAL AREA. NOT ALL THE WAY TO THE CORNER, BUT PAST THE DRIVEWAY ON THE -- ON THE RIGHT FOR THE HOUSE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE STREET (INDICATING). Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU'RE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE STREET; IS THAT CORRECT? A: I -- I WAS WALKING IN THE -- YOU KNOW, IN THE STREET. NOT JUST NECESSARILY ON THE -- THE DOG SORT OF GOES BACK AND FORTH AND THERE (INDICATING). MR. DARDEN: CAN WE PRINT THIS AND -- THE WITNESS: AT THE TIME, THERE REALLY WASN'T THAT MUCH TRAFFIC ON ROCKINGHAM. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY THE POLICE, MR. CALE? A: I WOULD SAY IT WAS IN FEBRUARY -- IN JANUARY I THINK. I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT DAY, BUT IT WAS -- IT WAS IN I BELIEVE JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. Q: AND DID YOU CONTACT THE POLICE? A: THEY CONTACTED ME. Q: OKAY. NOW, YOU DO LIVE IN THE AREA; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: OKAY. AND YOU WOULD PREFER NOT TO HAVE YOUR ADDRESS PUBLISHED I TAKE IT? A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: NOW, WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN ROCKINGHAM THAT SUNDAY EVENING, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ASHFORD STREET? A: WELL -- EXCUSE ME -- BITS AND PIECES OF ASHFORD STREET BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE PICTURE, THERE ARE A LOT OF TREES AND IF YOU WALK DOWN ROCKINGHAM, THE TREES REALLY BREAK UP THE UNIMPEDED VIEW OF ASHFORD. YOU CAN SEE PARTS OF ASHFORD. Q: OKAY. DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT'S FORD BRONCO PARKED ON ASHFORD STREET THAT SUNDAY NIGHT? A: I DON'T -- I DON'T RECALL SEEING IT ON ASHFORD, NO, SIR. MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL. THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO. MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR. MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, BEFORE WE BEGIN CROSS, MAY WE APPROACH WITH THE REPORTER FOR A MOMENT? THE COURT: WITH THE REPORTER? MR. DARDEN: YES. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE OVER AT THE SIDEBAR. MR. DARDEN. MR. DARDEN: WELL, IT IS SORT OF A MOTION TO LIMIT CROSS-EXAMINATION TO USE MR. COCHRAN'S TERMS. I INVITED MR. SHAPIRO TO COME OVER AND SPEAK TO MR. CALE FOR A FEW MOMENTS, AND HE DID THAT. AND WHEN HE DID THAT, MR. CALE ADVISED HIM HE WAS ILL AND MR. CALE ALSO ADVISED MR. SHAPIRO THAT HE WOULD PREFER NOT TO HAVE HIS ADDRESS PUBLISHED. MR. CALE OBVIOUSLY HAD SOME INVOLVEMENT IN THE '84 OLYMPICS PLANNING AND THE LIKE, AND SO HE IS VERY, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT HIS SECURITY BECAUSE OF THAT AND FOR OTHER REASONS, ALL OF WHICH ARE VERY LEGITIMATE. MR. SHAPIRO HAS INDICATED THAT HE WILL PRESENT EVIDENCE AS TO WHERE EXACTLY MR. CALE LIVES, AND I OBJECT TO THAT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IRRELEVANT AND UNNECESSARY. MR. COCHRAN CONSTANTLY REMINDS US WE ALL HAVE LIVES BEYOND THIS CASE AND SO DOES MR. CALE. I DON'T SEE ANY NEED OR ANY REASON WHY MR. SHAPIRO SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PUT IN EVIDENCE OF MR. CALE'S SPECIFIC RESIDENCE LOCATION. MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, FIRST, IN RESPONSE TO MR. DARDEN'S CHARACTERIZATION OF WHAT TOOK PLACE THIS MORNING, MY RECOLLECTION IS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT. THAT I WAS INVITED TO MEET MR. CALE. I SAID HELLO TO HIM, HE SAID HELLO TO ME. I SAID, "I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE NOT FEELING WELL." HE SAID, "YES." HE SAID, "THE REASON I DIDN'T TALK TO YOU IS BECAUSE I HAVE SOMETHING AKIN TO PNEUMONIA." I SAID, "IF THAT IS THE CASE, PERHAPS YOU WOULD LIKE TO PUT THIS OVER AND COME BACK ANOTHER DAY. WE HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THAT, THAT I ANTICIPATE MY EXAMINATION OF YOU IS GOING TO BE QUITE EXTENSIVE AND COULD BECOME LENGTHY." HE SAID, "MAY I TALK TO MR. DARDEN ALONE?" AND THAT'S THE LAST I TALKED TO HIM. I WAS NOT GIVEN ANY OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO MR. CALE. ALSO, MR. CALE THIS WEEK ON TWO OCCASIONS TOLD MR. MC KENNA HE WOULD MEET WITH HIM, BUT WOULD MEET WITH HIM LATER IN THE WEEK AND REFUSED TO MEET WITH HIM. MY OFFICE PUT IN THREE CALLS TO MR. CALE'S SECRETARY YESTERDAY AND I PUT IN A CALL TO A NEIGHBOR WHO CALLED HIM ON MY BEHALF. THE COURT: WELL, COUNSEL, LET ME JUST SORT OF JUMP AHEAD TO THE QUESTION THAT'S HERE. DO YOU NEED TO PUT IN HIS SPECIFIC ADDRESS? MR. SHAPIRO: NO. I ALREADY SAID THAT, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW THE LOCATION. I MEAN RIGHT NOW, THE JURY HAS THE IMPRESSION THAT THIS MAN OUT OF NOWHERE IS WALKING IN BRENTWOOD AND NINE -- SEVEN MONTHS LATER, TAKES NOTE OF WHERE MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO IS. WE DON'T KNOW IF HE KNOWS MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO FROM ANY OTHER BRONCO. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHERE HE STARTED WALKING FROM AND WHAT OTHER CARS ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WHAT OTHER NEIGHBORS' CARS HE KNOWS, WHERE THEY WERE PARKED. THE COURT: I'M GOING TO DIRECT YOU, HOWEVER, NOT TO ELICIT FROM HIM HIS ADDRESS. MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. MR. DARDEN: ONE ADDITIONAL POINT. WOULD YOU ALSO DIRECT MR. SHAPIRO NOT TO ELICIT FROM HIM THE NUMBER OF HOUSES AWAY FROM THE DEFENDANT THAT HE LIVES? THE REPORT -- THERE'S INDICATION IN THE REPORT THAT MR. SHAPIRO ASKS -- HE HAS THAT INFORMATION AND WE ALL KNOW HE KNOWS. THE COURT: WE CAN DO THIS IN YARDS AND METERS. MR. DARDEN: ONE ADDITIONAL THING. AFTER MR. CALE INDICATED HE WAS ILL, MR. SHAPIRO INDICATED THAT THE CROSS-EXAMINATION WOULD BE LENGTHY AND THAT HE WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE MR. CALE COME BACK ON MONDAY TO CONTINUE HIS TESTIMONY. THE COURT: WELL, LET'S SEE WHERE IT GOES. IT MAY NOT BE RELEVANT. MR. DARDEN: IT MAY NOT BE RELEVANT, BUT MY PERCEPTION OF THE COMMENT BY MR. SHAPIRO WAS, IT WAS SOME SORT OF THREAT TO THE WITNESS THAT IF HE DIDN'T RELENT AND CHANGE HIS MIND ABOUT TESTIFYING TODAY, HE WAS GOING TO KEEP HIM HERE. THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, THIS ISN'T AN IMPORTANT POINT. MR. DARDEN: I THINK IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT POINT. WITNESSES SHOULDN'T BE THREATENED AND MR. SHAPIRO IS TRYING TO DETER HIM FROM TESTIFYING. THE COURT: YOU SHOULD HAVE HEARD THE DISCUSSION WITH MR. HARMON AND MR. SCHECK YESTERDAY. MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, JUST FOR THE RECORD, THIS MAN IS A LAWYER. THIS MAN WAS HEAD OF THE OLYMPIC COMMITTEE. I HAVE A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND IF HIS HEALTH REQUIRES HIM TO REST OVER THE WEEKEND AND HE WOULD FEEL BETTER, THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO HIM COMING BACK, THAT I IN NO WAY THREATENED HIM OR ATTEMPTED TO -- MS. CLARK: PERHAPS THE WITNESS CAN TELL YOU HOW HE TOOK THE COMMENT. THE COURT: COUNSEL, I'VE GIVEN YOU DIRECTION. THANK YOU. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. PROCEED. MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SHAPIRO: Q: GOOD MORNING, MR. CALE. A: MR. SHAPIRO. Q: MR. CALE, YOU SAID THAT THE POLICE CALLED YOU AND A REPORT WAS TAKEN; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THAT WAS -- WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR MEMORY IF THAT REPORT IS DATED JANUARY THE 25TH? A: THAT SOUNDS -- I WAS GOING TO SAY LATE JANUARY OR EARLY FEBRUARY. Q: AND THEY CALLED IN RESPONSE TO THE FACT THAT YOU HAD CALLED SOMEONE ELSE AND ASKED TO SPEAK TO SOMEONE REGARDING THIS INCIDENT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: NO. THAT'S NOT ENTIRELY CORRECT, NO. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN THE REPORT IN THIS CASE? A: I SAW IT VERY BRIEFLY THIS MORNING. Q: LET ME GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY -- WELL, LET ME JUST ASK YOU, THE REPORT IS A PAGE AND ONE PARAGRAPH? A: YES. Q: AND WAS THAT REPORT WHEN YOU HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW IT ACCURATE? A: I TOOK A VERY SHORT BRIEF LOOK AT IT. I THOUGHT IT GENERALLY SEEMED ACCURATE. Q: DO YOU KNOW A PERSON BY THE NAME OF J. GARDNER? A: I DO. Q: IS THAT JEFF GARDNER? A: THAT IS. Q: AND WHO IS THAT? A: UH, HE'S A FRIEND. Q: WHAT DOES HE -- A: HE'S ALSO A NEIGHBOR IN THE BRENTWOOD PARK. Q: WHAT DOES HE DO? A: HE'S IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS. Q: AND DID YOU CALL HIM ABOUT THIS BRONCO? A: WE TALKED ABOUT THE BRONCO. Q: AND DID HE TELL YOU HE WOULD CALL THE POLICE, CALL THE COMMANDER ON YOUR BEHALF? A: HE TOLD ME THAT HE MIGHT BE TALKING TO SOMEBODY FROM THE POLICE. Q: AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, YOU GOT A CALL? A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: NOBODY CAME TO YOUR HOUSE ON JUNE THE 12TH TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU HAD OBSERVED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: ON JUNE THE 12TH? Q: OF 1994. A: THAT'S SUNDAY? Q: YES. A: SUNDAY NIGHT, NO. Q: WHAT ABOUT JUNE 13TH? ANYBODY COME TO YOUR HOUSE TO ASK YOU WHAT HAD HAPPENED? A: I LEFT FOR -- FOR CANADA ON A FLIGHT AT 8:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING. Q: DID THE POLICE COME TO YOUR HOUSE TO TALK TO YOUR WIFE, FAMILY AND INQUIRE WHETHER ANYBODY AT YOUR RESIDENCE HAD ANY KNOWLEDGE OF EVENTS THAT TOOK PLACE AT THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE? A: NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF. Q: DID YOU TALK TO YOUR WIFE? A: YES. Q: AND DID SHE EVER TELL YOU THAT SHE HAD BEEN CONTACTED BY THE POLICE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. HEARSAY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. BUT HE'S ALREADY TESTIFIED HE'S NOT AWARE OF ANY CONTACT. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOUR RESIDENCE LOCATION, AND WE WILL RESPECT THAT. CAN YOU TELL US WHERE YOU LIVE IN PROXIMITY TO MR. SIMPSON? A: I LIVE WITHIN -- CERTAINLY WITHIN A QUARTER OF A MILE OF MR. SIMPSON, LESS THAN A QUARTER OF A MILE. Q: AND UP UNTIL THE TIME THAT YOU CALLED THE POLICE -- WELL, YOU CALLED YOUR FRIEND AND THE POLICE CALLED YOU BACK, NO ONE -- A: I DIDN'T -- EXCUSE ME. I DIDN'T CALL HIM. I WAS TALKING WITH HIM. Q: YOU TALKED TO YOUR FRIEND. A: YES. Q: AND AS A RESULT OF THAT, YOU WERE CALLED BY THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. NO ONE HAD COME TO TAKE ANY STATEMENTS FROM YOU EVEN THOUGH YOU LIVE WITHIN A QUARTER OF A MILE OF MR. SIMPSON? A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: AND WHAT ATTEMPTS DID YOU MAKE TO REPORT WHAT YOU HAD OBSERVED TO THE POLICE PRIOR TO JANUARY 25TH OF 1995? A: I HAD MADE NONE. Q: WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION, SIR? A: I'M A SELF-EMPLOYED PRIVATE INVESTOR. Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY LEGAL BACKGROUND? A: YES, SIR, I DO. Q: WHAT LEGAL BACKGROUND DO YOU HAVE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: I HAVE -- A LAW -- A LAW SCHOOL GRADUATE. I HAVE PRACTICED LAW IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU WOULD NOT KNOW HOW TO CONTACT THE POLICE TO REPORT EVIDENCE THAT MAY BE RELEVANT TO A MURDER CASE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. HE NEVER SAID THAT. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU TELL -- WELL, YOU TALKED TO AN OFFICER BY THE NAME OF CROTSLEY, C-R-O-T-S-L-E-Y, ON JANUARY THE 24TH; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: AND AT THAT TIME, ARE YOU AWARE THAT HE REPORTED -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THIS IS HEARSAY. OBJECTION. IF COUNSEL IS GOING TO READ SOMETHING TO THE WITNESS, I WOULD LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW WHAT HE'S GOING TO READ. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: HAVE YOU EVER REPORTED TO THE POLICE THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO CONTACT THEM TO GIVE THEM INFORMATION? A: THAT NEVER WAS AN ISSUE. THE ANSWER IS NO. Q: LET ME SHOW YOU A COPY OF THE REPORT THAT WAS PREPARED BY MR. CROTSLEY AND SEE -- MR. DARDEN: YOU WANT TO SHOW ME WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SHOW HIM? MR. SHAPIRO: YEAH. THIS IS WHAT YOU JUST SHOWED HIM THIS MORNING. MR. DARDEN: YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SHOW HIM THE ENTIRE REPORT? MR. SHAPIRO: THAT'S ALL I HAVE UNLESS YOU HAVE MORE, MR. DARDEN. MR. DARDEN: I DO HAVE MORE, MR. SHAPIRO. MR. SHAPIRO: MAY WE HAVE THAT, PLEASE? MR. DARDEN: NO, YOU MAY NOT. THE COURT: COUNSEL, I THOUGHT I DIRECTED YOU BOTH TO DIRECT YOUR COMMENTS TO THE COURT. ALL RIGHT. LET'S PROCEED. MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH, BECAUSE APPARENTLY I DO NOT HAVE THE COMPLETE REPORTS. MR. DARDEN: HE DOES NOT HAVE THE COMPLETE REPORTS WITH HIM, YOUR HONOR. THERE'S A DISTINCTION. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WITH THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:) THE COURT: WE'RE OVER AT THE SIDEBAR. MR. DARDEN, WHAT ELSE -- IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WITH REGARDS TO THIS WITNESS OTHER THAN THE THREE PAGES OF THE REPORT? MR. DARDEN: THE FOURTH PAGE THAT JOHNNIE HAS. MR. SHAPIRO: DO YOU HAVE THIS? IS THAT THE SAME THING? MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S NOT THE WRITTEN REPORT. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE NARRATIVE REPORT. I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THE NARRATIVE OF THE REPORT. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN APPEARS TO HAVE ALL THE MATERIALS? MR. DARDEN: YES. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BOTH SIDES HAVE ALL THE REPORTS. PROCEED. MR. SHAPIRO: MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: LET ME GIVE YOU AS MUCH TIME -- A: SURE. Q: -- YOU NEED, SIR, TO READ THIS REPORT. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE WITNESS: I'VE TAKEN A LOOK AT IT, MR. SHAPIRO. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH TIME TO READ IT? A: I'VE READ IT. EXCUSE ME. Q: DO YOU SEE IF THERE ARE ANY ERRORS OR OMISSIONS IN THAT REPORT? A: WELL, AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE, UH, I DON'T THINK THERE WAS AN ISSUE OF MY NOT KNOWING WHO TO CONTACT IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH. Q: WELL, WHAT IS THE ERROR IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH? A: YOU SAID -- IT SAYS IN THE SENTENCE THAT, "MR. J. GARDNER STATED THAT A FRIEND, CHARLIE CALE, HAD INFORMATION REGARDING THE BRONCO, BUT DID NOT KNOW WHO TO CONTACT." I -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT MR. GARDNER STATED, BUT -- SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S -- I GUESS THAT'S SOMEBODY ELSE'S COMMENT. Q: LET ME JUST ASK YOU ON THAT POINT, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE ON. DID YOU EVER TELL MR. GARDNER THAT YOU HAD INFORMATION, BUT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHO TO CONTACT? A: NO, I DON'T THINK IN THAT SENSE I DID. WE DISCUSSED THE -- THE -- THE ISSUE THAT WAS IN THE FOURTH PARAGRAPH, ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, WHERE SOME COMMENT HAD COME UP ON THE NEWS THAT SAID THAT -- THAT THERE WAS A -- MR. DARDEN: PERHAPS I SHOULD OBJECT AT THIS POINT. THE COURT: WHAT'S THE OBJECTION? MR. DARDEN: COMMENTS ON THE NEWS. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN FINISH YOUR ANSWER, MR. CALE. THE WITNESS: -- THAT HAD BEEN REPORTED IN THE NEWS THAT SOMEONE WAS STATING THAT THE BRONCO HAD BEEN PARKED OTHER THAN ON ROCKINGHAM AND THAT IT HAD BEEN MOVED ONTO ROCKINGHAM, UH, BY THE POLICE OR BY SOMEBODY OR THAT IT HAD BEEN CHANGED, ITS LOCATION. AND, UH, I -- MR. GARDNER AND I WERE TALKING AND I SAID I JUST HAD HEARD THIS OR HE RAISED THE QUESTION WITH ME, AND I SAID, "THAT'S NOT THE CASE BECAUSE I SAW THE BRONCO ON MONDAY MORNING WHEN I WENT TO THE AIRPORT AND I HAD TAKEN A WALK THE NIGHT BEFORE, AND IT HADN'T BEEN THERE." SO THAT'S -- THAT'S HOW THE WHOLE SUBJECT CAME. SO YOU ASKED ALSO IF I KNEW HOW TO GET AHOLD OF ANYBODY IN JUNE. IN JUNE, THERE WAS NEVER AN ISSUE THAT I WAS AWARE OF ABOUT WHERE THE BRONCO WAS OR WAS NOT PARKED. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: I TAKE IT THAT YOU KNOW THAT THERE WAS A PRELIMINARY HEARING IN THIS CASE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND I TAKE IT YOU KNOW THAT THAT WAS TELEVISED? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU SEE ANY PART OF IT? A: I DON'T THINK I SAW MORE THAN FIVE OR 10 MINUTES OF THE WHOLE HEARING. Q: DID YOU -- A: ON THE NEWS PERHAPS, BUT I DID NOT WATCH IT. Q: AND DID YOU SEE ANY NEWS REPORTS OF ANY ISSUE REGARDING A BRONCO? A: I SAW NEWS REPORTS THAT INDICATED THAT THERE WAS A BRONCO PARKED THERE AND THERE WAS AN ISSUE OF WHAT WAS IN IT OR ON IT OR THINGS OF THAT SORT. Q: SO YOU KNEW AS EARLY AS JULY OF 1994 THAT THE BRONCO WAS AT LEAST AN ISSUE IN THIS CASE BEING A LAWYER; DID YOU NOT? A: THE BRONCO WAS AN ISSUE? I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS AN ISSUE. I KNOW IT WAS AN ELEMENT IN THE CASE. Q: AND YOU'RE A READER OF NEWSPAPERS; ARE YOU NOT? A: YES. Q: YOU READ ABOUT THIS CASE IN THE NEWSPAPERS; DID YOU NOT? A: I READ IT IN THE NEWSPAPERS, YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU WERE AWARE OF SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN REFERRED TO AS A LOW-SPEED FOLLOW INVOLVING A BRONCO? A: I AM -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED AT THIS POINT. THE WITNESS: I'M FAMILIAR WITH THAT. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND SO AS A LAWYER, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU COULD CONCLUDE THAT THE BRONCO WAS AN ISSUE IN THIS CASE? A: I DON'T PRACTICE LAW, BUT AS SOMEONE WHO USED TO, I WOULD SAY THAT THE ISSUE OF THE BRONCO WAS IN THE CASE. HOWEVER, THERE WAS NOTHING THAT I HAD SEEN OR NOT SEEN ABOUT THE BRONCO THAT I THOUGHT WAS ANY ISSUE UNTIL, UH, THE LATTER PART OF JANUARY. Q: BEING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE OF MR. SIMPSON, DID YOU FIND IT UNUSUAL THAT NO ONE CONTACTED YOU, WHETHER YOU HEARD ANY UNUSUAL NOISES ON JUNE THE 13TH? A: NO, SIR. WHERE WE ARE IS FAR ENOUGH AWAY AND WITH TREES THAT I DON'T THINK THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON ANYBODY'S MIND TO UNNECESSARILY ASK IF WE HEARD STRANGE NOISES WHERE WE WERE. Q: WHAT ABOUT VEHICLES THAT MIGHT BE GOING BY? A: MY ANSWER WOULD BE THE SAME. Q: WHAT IF YOU WERE OUTSIDE YOUR RESIDENCE WALKING YOUR DOG AS YOU SOMETIMES DO? WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK THE POLICE MIGHT WANT TO KNOW? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. SPECULATION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE VEHICLES OF ALL YOUR NEIGHBORS? A: NOT ALL OF THEM. Q: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH ALL THE VEHICLES THAT WERE PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU WENT TO THE AIRPORT THAT MORNING ON JUNE THE 13TH? A: I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE TWO THAT I SAW, ONE ON ASHFORD, WHICH WAS THE BLACK AND WHITE, AND THE OTHER WAS THE BRONCO, AND TO MY RECOLLECTION, THERE WEREN'T ANY OTHERS PARKED. Q: THERE WERE NO OTHER VEHICLES ON ROCKINGHAM THAT DAY? A: NOT THAT I RECALL. Q: WHAT ABOUT THE NIGHT BEFORE? WHAT VEHICLES WERE PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM? A: ON SUNDAY NIGHT? Q: YES. A: I SAW NONE. Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY OTHER BRONCOS AT MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE OR IN THE AREA OF -- STRIKE THAT. IN THE AREA OF ROCKINGHAM AND ASHFORD, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY OTHER BRONCOS OTHER THAN MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO? A: I'VE SEEN OTHER BRONCOS, YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU'VE SEEN THEM PARKED IN MANY DIFFERENT LOCATIONS; HAVE YOU NOT? A: SEEN THEM PARKED ON ASHFORD. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN MR. COWLINGS IN THE AREA OF MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE? A: YES, SIR, I HAVE. Q: AND HAVE YOU SEEN HIS BRONCO PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM? A: NOT THAT I RECALL. I'VE SEEN -- I'VE SEEN HIS BRONCO PARKED ON ASHFORD I KNOW. Q: IS THERE SOMETHING IN PARTICULAR ABOUT NOTING WHERE A BRONCO IS PARKED EIGHT MONTHS AGO THAT IS IMPORTANT TO YOU? A: I DON'T REALLY QUITE UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, MR. SHAPIRO. Q: HAVE YOU WATCHED ANY PART OF THIS CASE ON TELEVISION, ANY PART OF THIS TRIAL? A: VERY LITTLE. Q: SO YOU'VE WATCHED SOME OF IT? A: VERY LITTLE. Q: WHAT HAVE YOU WATCHED? A: I'VE SEEN NEWS CLIPS FROM -- FROM THE NEWS WHEN I WATCHED THE REGULAR NEWS. UH, THAT'S REALLY ABOUT ALL. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN ANY WITNESSES TESTIFY IN THIS CASE? A: I'VE SEEN, UH -- I SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN BRIEFLY AND I -- DETECTIVE -- I DON'T KNOW THE DETECTIVE -- I DON'T EVEN KNOW HIS NAME. WAS THERE IN -- THE GENTLEMAN SITTING BEHIND COUNSEL. I SAW -- THE COURT: INDICATING DETECTIVE LANGE. THE WITNESS: UH, AND I PROBABLY SAW TWO OR THREE MINUTES IN TOTAL OF -- OF MISS LOPEZ. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND YOU WERE AWARE THAT ALL THREE OF THOSE PEOPLE GAVE TESTIMONY REGARDING THE BRONCO; ARE YOU NOT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. DARDEN: MOTION TO STRIKE. THE COURT: BE STRICKEN. THE JURORS ARE TO DISREGARD. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: I AM SORRY. ARE YOU AWARE THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GAVE INFORMATION REGARDING THE BRONCO? A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT INFORMATION DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GAVE ABOUT THE BRONCO IF HE DID. Q: WHAT ABOUT DETECTIVE VANNATTER? A: I DID NOT SEE DETECTIVE VANNATTER AT ALL EVEN ON A NEWS -- THE NEWS THAT I CAN RECALL. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE TALKED ABOUT. Q: WHAT ABOUT DETECTIVE LANGE? A: I DON'T REMEMBER ANYTHING THAT HE TALKED ABOUT. I JUST REMEMBER SEEING HIM. Q: CAN YOU TELL ONE BRONCO FROM ANOTHER? A: UMM, THAT'S A QUESTION I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER, UH, MR. SHAPIRO. Q: YES OR NO? A: I DON'T THINK THAT'S A QUESTION THAT'S SUSCEPTIBLE TO ANSWERING YES OR NO. IF YOU HAVE TWO IDENTICAL BRONCOS, I COULDN'T TELL WHICH WAS WHICH. I CAN TELL YOU THAT I RECOGNIZED THE BRONCO WHEN I SAW IT. Q: DID YOU RECOGNIZE IT AS MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO OR DID YOU RECOGNIZE IT AS A WHITE BRONCO? A: I RECOGNIZED IT AS A WHITE BRONCO. Q: AND THE CLOSEST YOU GOT TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE IS WHERE YOU'VE PUT THIS REDDISH ORANGE MARKER ON THE ELMO? A: THAT'S MY BEST RECOLLECTION, YES, SIR. WAS IN THAT GENERAL AREA. Q: AND IT COULD HAVE BEEN BEFORE 9:30 THAT YOU WERE WALKING YOUR DOG; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: DON'T THINK IT WAS. Q: BUT YOU'RE NOT SURE? A: I'M VERY SURE. Q: YOU'RE VERY SURE? A: THAT IT WAS IN THE -- Q: YOU WALKED YOUR DOG -- THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT. THE WITNESS: -- 9:30 TO 9:45 TIME FRAME. THAT'S THE BEST ESTIMATE I CAN GIVE YOU, SIR. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WELL, YOU JUST USED THE TERM "THE BEST ESTIMATE" AND YOU'RE VERY SURE. A: YES. I DON'T THINK THOSE ARE INCONSISTENT. Q: SO YOU WOULD -- IN YOUR DEFINITION, YOUR BEST ESTIMATE IS BEING VERY SURE OF SOMETHING. A: WHEN YOU HAVE A PERIOD OF TIME WITHIN A CERTAIN PERIMETERS, THAT'S -- I'M VERY SURE OF MY ESTIMATE THAT IT'S IN THAT RANGE OF TIME. Q: COULD IT HAVE BEEN 9:25? A: I DON'T THINK IT WAS. IS IT POSSIBLE? I GUESS IT'S POSSIBLE. I DON'T THINK SO THOUGH. Q: DO YOU WALK YOUR DOG AT A REGULAR TIME EVERY EVENING? A: NO, SIR, I DO NOT. Q: DO YOU WALK YOUR DOG EVERY EVENING? A: NO, SIR, I DO NOT. Q: DO YOU WALK YOUR DOG VERY DAY? A: NO, SIR. I WALK THE DOG SPORADICALLY ON OCCASION. Q: DID YOU -- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WALKED YOUR DOG BEFORE THE EVENING THAT YOU'VE TESTIFIED TO? A: I DON'T HAVE A SPECIFIC DATE. I WALKED IT WITHIN THAT WEEK I KNOW. Q: WHAT CARS DID YOU SEE ON ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU WALKED YOUR DOG WITHIN THAT WEEK? A: I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. Q: HOW FAR WERE THE REAR WHEELS OF THE BRONCO -- I THINK YOUR WORDS WERE JUTTING OUT INTO THE ROADWAY. HAVE YOU HEARD -- LET ME ASK YOU THIS FIRST. HAVE YOU HEARD THAT TERM USED IN THIS CASE BY ANYONE ELSE? A: NO, SIR, I HAVE NOT. Q: HAVE YOU READ THAT TERM IN ANY OF THE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES? A: NO, SIR, I HAVE NOT. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN IT ON ANY NEWSPAPER CLIPPINGS -- ANY NEWS CLIPPINGS? A: NO, SIR. Q: HOW FAR WAS THE REAR END JUTTING OUT? A: I WOULD SAY -- AGAIN, I WAS DRIVING BY IN THE CAR, AND I WOULD SAY APPEARED TO ME TO BE 18 INCHES FROM THE -- FROM THE CURB WITH THE NOSE -- THE FRONT RIGHT WHEEL CLOSER TO THE CURB. Q: NOW, YOU'RE AWARE THAT THERE IS A CONCRETE GUTTER AREA AND THEN ASPHALT ON THE STREET; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: HOW WIDE IS THE CONCRETE GUTTER AREA? A: I DON'T KNOW. SIX, EIGHT INCHES I WOULD ASSUME. Q: SO THE TIRES THEN WERE MORE THAN 10 INCHES TO A FOOT, THE REAR TIRES ON THE ASPHALT? A: I REALLY CAN'T SAY. AGAIN, WE WERE DRIVING BY. I LOOKED AND I SAW THAT THE CAR WAS OUT AT AN ANGLE WHICH WASN'T PARALLEL TO THE CURB. I DIDN'T STOP AND LOOK. Q: YOU JUST GAVE TESTIMONY THAT IT WAS 18 INCHES AWAY FROM THE CURB. A: I SAID THAT WAS MY ESTIMATE. I BELIEVED IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS ABOUT 18 INCHES FROM THE CURB. THE NOSE WHEELS WERE CLOSE AGAINST THE CURB AND THE REAR WHEELS WERE OUT FROM IT. Q: AND IF THE CONCRETE AREA IS SIX TO EIGHT INCHES, THEN BY SIMPLE -- ISN'T THAT WHAT YOU TESTIFIED TO? A: I GUESS WHEN YOU SAY CONCRETE, YOU MEAN THE CURB COMES DOWN ONTO THE STREET? Q: IS THERE A CONCRETE GUTTER AREA ON ROCKINGHAM? A: THERE'S A CURB AND THEN THE CURB NECESSARILY MAKES A GUTTER WHEN IT -- I GUESS YOU WOULD SAY WHEN IT COMES TO THE -- TO THE STREET. Q: AND MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, HOW WIDE IS THE GUTTER? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT'S VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION? THE WITNESS: I REALLY DON'T, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T -- Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DESCRIBE THE CURB, THE GUTTER AREA AND THE ASPHALT ON ROCKINGHAM ADJACENT TO THE SIMPSON PROPERTY. A: I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A CONCRETE CURB. THE CURB GOES DOWN TO THE STREET AND THEN OUT SOME INCHES WHICH I THINK IS, AS I SAID, SIX TO EIGHT INCHES FROM THE VERTICAL, AND AT THAT POINT, THE ASPHALT STARTS. Q: SO YOUR TESTIMONY THEN IS, IF THE CAR IS 18 INCHES OUT ONTO THE ASPHALT -- A: 18 INCHES FROM THE VERTICAL CURB. Q: ARE YOU -- FROM THE VERTICAL CURB. A: YES, SIR. Q: SO THAT IT WOULD BE ON ABOUT 10 INCHES OF ASPHALT? A: THAT -- THOSE NUMBERS, YES, SIR. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I -- WELL, IF YOU TAKE THE NUMBERS, THAT WOULD APPEAR TO BE CORRECT. Q: AND THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS YOU'VE GIVEN US? A: THAT'S THE NUMBERS I'VE GIVEN. Q: WERE YOU DRIVING THE CAR ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT? A: NO, SIR, I WAS NOT. Q: BUT YOU WERE ON THE PASSENGER SIDE? A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: DID YOU SEE ANY OTHER VEHICLES IN THE AREA OF ROCKINGHAM AND ASHFORD OTHER THAN THE POLICE VEHICLE -- THE ONE BLACK AND WHITE POLICE VEHICLE AND THE WHITE BRONCO? A: I HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF SEEING ANY OTHERS. IT REALLY WASN'T AN ISSUE. I MEAN, I WAS -- WE WERE GOING TO THE AIRPORT. I SAW THE POLICE, I SAID, "LET'S GO STRAIGHT," I SAW THE BRONCO AND WE CONTINUED. Q: YOU SAW THE POLICE OR YOU SAW A POLICE VEHICLE? A: POLICE VEHICLE, THE BLACK AND WHITE. Q: DID YOU SEE ANY POLICEMEN? A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT. Q: DID YOU SEE ANYONE GUARDING THE BRONCO AT 7:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING? A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT. Q: DID YOU SEE THE BRONCO CORNERED OFF IN ANY WAY TO LOOK LIKE IT WAS BEING SECURED? A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT. Q: DID YOU SEE THE HOUSE CORNERED OFF AS IF IT WAS A CRIME SCENE AREA? A: I DON'T HAVE ANY RECOLLECTION OF THAT. Q: LET ME, WITH THE COURT'S PERMISSION, PUT EXHIBIT 1037 ON THE ELMO. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.) Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: I WANT TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEING DISPLAYED. A: YES, SIR. Q: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT VEHICLE? A: THAT APPEARS TO BE THE WHITE BRONCO PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO OWNS THAT VEHICLE? A: I BELIEVE THAT THAT'S MR. SIMPSON'S VEHICLE, BUT IT'S -- I -- I'M NOT POSITIVE OF THAT. I HAVEN'T SEEN THE REGISTRATION. IT'S THE WHITE BRONCO. Q: AND WHAT IS IT ABOUT THAT VEHICLE THAT LEADS YOU TO BELIEVE THAT IT'S MR. SIMPSON'S FROM THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: WELL, IT APPEARS THAT THAT'S ROCKINGHAM AND THE CAR IS -- IS PARKED WITH THE REAR WHEELS OUT. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY. Q: WELL, HOW DOES THAT IDENTIFY IT AS BEING MR. SIMPSON'S BRONCO? A: WELL, THAT'S THE WHITE BRONCO. WHATEVER THE WHITE BRONCO WAS THAT I SAW. Q: AND WOULD YOU SAY THAT THE WHEELS ARE IN THE SAME POSITION YOU SAW AS YOU WERE DRIVING BY AS A PASSENGER ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT? A: THAT LOOKS CORRECT. Q: AND YOU WOULD SAY THAT THE BACK TIRE IS 10 INCHES ONTO THE ASPHALT? A: WELL, LOOKS LIKE THE -- THE OUTSIDE PART OF THE TIRE IS A COUPLE OF INCHES ON THE ASPHALT AND THE -- THE FRONT TIRE IS CLOSER IN. Q: AND YOU DESCRIBED THAT AS JUTTING OUT AND BEING VERY UNUSUAL? A: I THINK I SAID IT JUTTED OUT. Q: YOU -- WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THAT AS BEING UNUSUAL? A: I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PARAGON OF PARALLEL PARKING, BUT -- IS IT PARKED ILLEGALLY? I DON'T KNOW. THE WHEELS -- THE FRONT WHEELS ARE IN AND THE BACK WHEELS ARE OUT FARTHER. THAT'S WHAT I SAW WHEN I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE. Q: AND HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED WHEN YOU PASSED BY THAT VEHICLE? THE COURT: AT WHAT POINT? Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AT THE TIME YOU WERE ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT. A: WE SLOWED DOWN, UH, WHEN WE CAME TO ASHFORD THINKING WE WOULD TURN ONTO ASHFORD. I SAID, "LET'S GO STRAIGHT." SO WE PASSED IT GOING -- ACCELERATING FROM FIVE OR TEN MILES AN HOUR TO TWENTY MILES AN HOUR. I -- I -- TWENTY-FIVE MILES AN HOUR. WE JUST DROVE BY IN PASSING. PROBABLY SAW IT A COUPLE OF SECONDS. Q: WHO -- WHO WAS DRIVING YOU? A: UH, A YOUNG MAN BY THE NAME OF JOEL. THE COURT: HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT? THE WITNESS: J-O-E-L. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND DID YOU MENTION ANYTHING TO THIS INDIVIDUAL ABOUT WALKING YOUR DOG THE NIGHT BEFORE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. HEARSAY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NOT ABOUT WALKING THE DOG. I MENTIONED TO HIM -- I SAID, "THAT'S STRANGE. THE CAR IS PARKED THERE AND IT WASN'T LAST NIGHT." Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU TALKED TO THIS MAN? A: PROBABLY YESTERDAY. Q: HE WORKS FOR YOU? A: HE DOES ON OCCASION, YES. Q: IN WHAT CAPACITY? A: HE DRIVES. Q: A CHAUFFEUR? A: UMM, I WOULDN'T -- I WOULDN'T HAVE A -- HAVE A -- RISE IT -- RAISE IT TO THAT DIGNITY IN THE SENSE THAT HE'S NOT THERE ALL THE TIME, BUT HE JUST DRIVES AND DOES ERRANDS. Q: ARE YOU AWARE THAT MR. COWLINGS HAS A KEY TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYBODY ENTER THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE? A: I DON'T KNOW THAT I'VE EVER SEEN ANYBODY ENTER FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. I'VE SEEN PEOPLE COME OUT FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. UH, I JUST -- I DON'T RECALL THAT I HAVE OR HAVE NOT. Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN MR. COWLINGS ENTER FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE? A: NO. Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN MISS BARBIERI ENTER FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE? A: I HAVE NOT. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO SHE IS? A: I ONLY KNOW BY -- BY NAME AND REPUTATION. I DON'T KNOW HER PERSONALLY. Q: BY NAME AND REPUTATION? A: IN THAT SHE WAS A FRIEND OF MR. SIMPSON'S. Q: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? A: I'VE HEARD THAT. Q: WHERE? A: UH, PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT. MR. SHAPIRO: EXCUSE ME FOR ONE MOMENT. THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.) Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: ARE YOU AWARE THAT PAULA BARBIERI HAS A WHITE BRONCO? A: NO, SIR. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MISS BARBIERI OTHER THAN WHAT I JUST SAID. Q: YOU ARE AWARE THAT MR. COWLINGS HAS A WHITE BRONCO OR DO YOU -- A: YES, SIR, I AM. Q: AND DO YOU KNOW THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT AN OUTSIDER CAN GAIN ENTRANCE TO THE ROCKINGHAM PROPERTY, TO MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE IS THROUGH THE ROCKINGHAM GATE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THE WITNESS: EXCUSE ME? WOULD YOU -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT'S VAGUE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: IS THERE ANYTHING IN PARTICULAR ABOUT THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE THAT CAUSES YOU TO FOCUS ON IT? A: WELL, IT HAS A -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: UH, YES. MR. SIMPSON IS A CELEBRITY, CERTAINLY THE -- I THINK ONE OF THE MOST WELL-KNOWN PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, ALSO, IT'S ON THE CORNER OF WHERE YOU -- EITHER GOING SOUTH OR -- EXCUSE ME -- EITHER GOING WEST OR EAST ON SUNSET, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO SUNSET, YOU GO BY MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE. IT'S DISTINCTIVE. IT'S CHRISTMAS LIGHTED BRIGHTLY. I MEAN, THERE'S -- IT'S -- I THINK IT'S A FOCAL POINT. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND YOU SAID IT WAS LIGHTED BRIGHTLY. SO YOU CAN, BY WALKING BY, SEE THAT HOUSE AND FOCUS -- A: I SAID -- I SAID AT CHRISTMAS. Q: OH, AT CHRISTMAS. A: YES. Q: WHAT ABOUT NORMALLY? IS THERE A -- ISN'T THERE A HALOGEN LIGHT ON THE CORNER OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM, STREET LAMP? A: THERE'S A STREET LAMP AT THE CORNER OF -- YES, SIR. Q: AND DOESN'T THAT ILLUMINATE THE FRONT OF THE SIMPSON PROPERTY? A: NOT THE LIGHT I'M -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE WITNESS: I KNOW THERE ARE LIGHTS ON THE PROPERTY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. HE CAN ANSWER. THE WITNESS: THERE'S LIGHTS ON THE PROPERTY. THERE'S A BLUE, IF THAT'S A HALOGEN, LIGHT AND THERE'S SOME OTHER LIGHTS ON THE -- Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: THE PROPERTY IS VERY WELL LIT AT NIGHT; IS IT NOT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: VAGUE. WANT TO REPHRASE THE QUESTION? Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: ARE YOU AWARE OF THE LIGHTING ON THE PROPERTY AT NIGHT? A: WHAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE STREET. Q: AND WHAT CAN YOU SEE FROM THE STREET? A: THERE'S A -- ONE OF THE TREES I KNOW IS -- IS UP LIT ON -- ON ASHFORD WITH I THINK -- I'M NOT SURE IF HALOGEN IS THE BLUE LIGHT -- WITH A BLUISH GREEN LIGHT AS I RECALL. THERE ARE SOME LIGHTS THAT YOU CAN SEE AROUND THE -- AGAIN, THAT THERE IS SOME LIGHT AROUND THE DRIVEWAY AND THAT'S REALLY ALL I CAN -- CAN RECALL, THAT THERE'S SOME LIGHTS IN THE BACK BY THE POOL AREA SOMETIMES THAT YOU SEE. Q: ON THE NIGHT BEFORE YOU LEFT FOR THE AIRPORT, DID YOU SEE A LIMOUSINE IN THE AREA OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM? A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT. Q: AND IF THERE WAS A LIMOUSINE PARKED OUTSIDE THE ROCKINGHAM GATE AT ABOUT 9:30, WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE SO. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND IF THERE WAS A LIMOUSINE DRIVING UP ROCKINGHAM TO ASHFORD, WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. OBJECTION TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE IF IT HAD HAD ITS HEADLIGHTS ON, I WOULD HAVE. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND IF THERE WAS A LIMOUSINE PARKED ACROSS THE STREET FROM MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE ON ASHFORD AT 9:25 TO 9:35, WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE IT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED, AS TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: REGARDING A LIMO -- DID YOU EVER SEE ANY LIMOUSINE PARKED ALONG ASHFORD -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- THAT NIGHT WHILE YOU WERE WALKING YOUR DOG? MR. DARDEN: IRRELEVANT AS TO WITH THIS WITNESS. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NOT -- NOT -- I DID NOT SEE A LIMOUSINE PARKED ON ASHFORD WHEN I WAS WALKING THE DOG. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND YOU'RE A PRETTY METICULOUS PERSON AND YOU'RE VERY, VERY OBSERVANT OF THINGS; ARE YOU NOT? A: UH, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THAT. I -- I DON'T KNOW. MY WIFE DOESN'T THINK I'M AS METICULOUS PERHAPS AS -- THE COURT: JOIN THE CLUB. THE WITNESS: I -- YOU KNOW, I TRY TO BE OBSERVANT WHEN I'M OUT WALKING AT NIGHT. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU SEE ANY PEOPLE WALKING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHEN YOU WERE OUT AT 9:30? A: NO, SIR, NOT THAT I RECALL AT THAT TIME. Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING A LIMOUSINE DRIVING OUTSIDE OF ASHFORD SMOKING A CIGARETTE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. MR. DARDEN: VAGUE AS TO TIME. THE COURT: HOLD ON. THE JURY'S HEARD THE TESTIMONY OF BOTH WITNESSES. THEY KNOW THAT -- THEY CAN PUT THE TWO TESTIMONIES TOGETHER. MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHAT ABOUT A BENTLEY? DID YOU SEE ANY BENTLEY AT THE ROCKINGHAM PROPERTY AT 9:35? A: NO, SIR. I DIDN'T LOOK INTO THE PROPERTY. Q: PARDON? A: I DIDN'T -- I MEAN, I DIDN'T LOOK IN THE GATE. Q: DID YOU SEE ANY SMALL FOREIGN VEHICLE ON ASHFORD AT ALL THAT ENTIRE EVENING WHEN YOU WERE OUT? A: I DID NOT SEE ANY ON ASHFORD, NO, SIR. Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY CAR -- DID YOU SEE A NISSAN Z ON ASHFORD? A: I THINK I SAID BEFORE, I DON'T RECALL SEEING ANY CARS ON -- ON ASHFORD. Q: WHEN YOU -- YOU REVIEWED THIS REPORT THAT I'VE SHOWN YOU, AND DO YOU SEE WHERE IT INDICATES THAT -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU TELL THE POLICE OFFICER -- MR. DARDEN: CALLS FOR HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. DARDEN: AND I WOULD ASK MR. SHAPIRO BE DIRECTED TO GIVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE WHAT HE INTENDS TO READ INTO THE RECORD. THE COURT: COUNSEL. MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: MR. CALE? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU PREVIOUSLY TELL A POLICE OFFICER WHO TOOK A REPORT FROM YOU THAT YOU WENT TO BED AT 10:30 THAT EVENING? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT MISSTATES THE REPORT, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: I TOLD -- THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I TOLD THE POLICE OFFICER THAT I RECALL GETTING HOME TO TRY TO GET IN BED SOMETIME AFTER 10:00, BETWEEN 10:00 AND 10:30 -- IT SAYS HERE I SAID 10:30 -- BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE IN BED EARLY BECAUSE I HAD TO GET UP EARLY THE NEXT MORNING. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER I TOLD HIM I WAS IN BED AT 10:30 OR 10:15 OR 10:10. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME YOU WERE IN BED? A: I KNOW I WAS IN BED BY 10:30. I THINK I WAS PROBABLY IN BED EARLIER THAN THAT ACTUALLY. Q: ARE YOU AS SURE OF THE TIME YOU WERE IN BED AS IS SURE AS THE TIME YOU WERE WALKING YOUR DOG? A: I'M SURE THAT I WAS IN BED BETWEEN 10:15 AND 10:30. I THINK I MAY WELL HAVE BEEN IN BED BEFORE 10|15, BUT I WASN'T IN BED AT 10:00. Q: YOU WOULD AGREE THAT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO BE PRECISE ON TIMES UNLESS YOU'RE LOOKING AT A CLOCK FOR A SPECIFIC REFERENCE; ISN'T THAT TRUE? A: I THINK THAT THAT IS TRUE. Q: THANK YOU. MR. SHAPIRO: MAY I JUST HAVE A MOMENT? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. SHAPIRO: IF WE COULD PUT THE PHOTOGRAPH BACK ON THE -- (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. HARRIS, YOU'RE PUTTING UP PEOPLE'S 157? MR. SHAPIRO: YES. MR. DARDEN: IT'S 157-A. THE COURT: 157-A. MR. DARDEN: MAY IT BE SO MARKED? THE COURT: YES. 157-A. (PEO'S 157-A FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) THE COURT: MADAM REPORTER? THE COURT REPORTER: WHAT? THE COURT: 157-A, THIS EXHIBIT. MR. SHAPIRO: LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET IT UP ON THE ELMO. CAN WE PUT THAT ON THE ELMO, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: IT APPEARS TO BE. MR. SHAPIRO: ON THE BIG SCREEN HERE? THERE WE GO. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: MR. CALE, HOW FAR IS YOUR HOUSE FROM THE RED LINE YOU'VE DRAWN? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: YOU CAN TELL US IN DISTANCE. MR. DARDEN: MAY WE BE HEARD AT SIDEBAR? THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. DARDEN: CAN I JUST SHOW THE COURT THE REPORT THEN AS TO -- THE COURT: WELL, WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN PROBABLY IS, HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE TO WALK FROM HIS YARD WALKING HIS DOG TO THAT LOCATION -- MR. SHAPIRO: THAT'S PRECISELY THE POINT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: -- KNOWING THE PARTICULAR IDIOSYNCRACIES OF THIS PARTICULAR DOG. THE WITNESS: WALK WITH THE DOG, IT WOULD TAKE ME THREE OR FOUR MINUTES -- Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WHAT'S THE DISTANCE? A: -- AT THE -- DEPENDING UPON WHAT THE DOG WAS DOING. Q: WHAT'S THE DISTANCE? A: I COULD -- WITHOUT THE DOG, I COULD WALK IT IN PROBABLY TWO MINUTES. Q: WHAT IS THE DISTANCE IN -- YOU GAVE US BEFORE A DISTANCE OF A QUARTER OF A MILE FROM YOUR RESIDENCE TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE. WHAT'S THE DISTANCE FROM YOUR RESIDENCE TO THE RED LINE? A: WELL, AS I SAID BEFORE, I LIVE WITHIN A QUARTER OF A MILE. IT'S LESS THAN A QUARTER OF A MILE. I MEAN, IF -- I DON'T KNOW. YOUR HONOR, DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL HIM IN NUMBERS OF SPECIFIC YARDS AND -- THE COURT: NO. I THINK WALKING IT IN TWO MINUTES IS THE MATERIAL ISSUE. THE WITNESS: I MEAN, IT'S LESS -- I MEAN, WITH THE DOG, IT WOULD BE AGAIN -- Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WOULD YOU TRACE THE ROUTE THAT YOU WALKED YOUR DOG AND DIRECTING THE ARROW ON THE ELMO, PLEASE? THE COURT: THAT'S NOT PARTICULARLY RELEVANT AT THIS POINT. THE ROUTE AS TO HOW HE GOT THERE -- THE ISSUE IS, HOW FAR DOWN ROCKINGHAM DID HE GET, HOW CLOSE TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE AND THE BRONCO DID HE GET. THAT'S THE ISSUE. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: WOULD YOU INDICATE -- THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR -- ON THE ELMO WHERE YOU BELIEVE -- WHERE THE ROCKING -- WHERE THE BRONCO WAS WHEN YOU SAW IT ON THE 13TH? THE COURT: IS THIS THE FULL VIEW, MR. HARRIS? MR. HARRIS: LET ME SEE IF I CAN GET A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE WITNESS: AGAIN, IT'S DIFFICULT -- IT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF THE DEFINITION AND THE ANGLE HERE, BUT THE CLOSEST I WOULD SAY -- AND AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE -- WHERE THE -- WHERE THE DRIVEWAY COMES OUT. BUT YOU SEE ON ROCKINGHAM JUST ABOVE THE BORDER TO THE -- OF THE -- OF THE PHOTOGRAPH THERE ARE -- THERE'S TWO -- LOOKS LIKE TWO VEHICLES, SORT OF WHITISH VEHICLES. AND IT WOULD BE -- AGAIN, I'M HAVING A HARD TIME JUST GETTING THE EXACT REFERENCE TO WHERE THE DRIVEWAY, THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY WOULD BE, BUT IT WOULD APPEAR TO ME THAT IT WOULD BE THE -- THE SOUTHERNMOST OF THOSE TWO -- OF THOSE TWO VEHICLES. THAT WOULD -- THAT'S THE GENERAL LOCATION. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND HOW FAR IN DISTANCE IS THAT LOCATION FROM THE DISTANCE THAT YOU WALKED YOUR DOG CLOSEST TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE? A: UH, THE CLOSEST I GOT WAS IN THE GENERAL AREA OF THAT RED LINE. AND AS I SAID BEFORE, I THOUGHT IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 60 YARDS. Q: HAVE YOU EVER MEASURED THAT OFF? A: NO, SIR, I HAVE NOT. Q: IS THAT JUST AN ESTIMATE, JUST A GUESS OR AN ESTIMATE? A: THAT WOULD BE MY ESTIMATE. Q: SO WE'RE PRECISE, IF YOU COULD DIRECT MR. HARRIS TO CIRCLING THE VEHICLE WHERE YOU BELIEVE THE BRONCO WAS. A: WELL, SUBJECT TO THE -- MY PROBLEM OF NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE WHERE THE -- THE LINE OF THE DRIVEWAY IS, AND IT WAS PARKED IMMEDIATELY, YOU KNOW, TO THE NORTH OF THE DRIVEWAY. IT APPEARS TO ME WITH THAT LITTLE CAVEAT OR EXCEPTION THAT IT'S THE -- THE -- THE LOCATION IS THE LOWER -- I SEE THIS LITTLE MARK. THERE'S A MARKING. I WOULD COME DOWN A LITTLE BIT AND NOW BACK -- TO THE RIGHT OF THAT. NO. NOW UP ONTO THE VEHICLE. THAT VEHICLE (INDICATING). I MEAN, I CAN'T REALLY EVEN TELL IF THAT'S A VEHICLE OR A TRUCK OR WHAT -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S SOMETHING PARKED THERE, AND THAT WOULD BE WHERE I BELIEVE THE BRONCO WAS PARKED THE NEXT MORNING. Q: WELL, LET'S -- LET'S -- IS THIS A CORRECT INDICATION OF WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO ESTABLISH -- A: YES. I'M TRYING TO -- YES, SIR. AND THAT'S -- I'M ASSUMING THAT THE -- THAT THAT IS TO THE NORTH OF THE DRIVEWAY, THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY. I CAN'T SEE THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY ON THE PHOTO. Q: DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL FROM A MEMBER OF MY OFFICE, MR. PAT MC KENNA? A: I RECEIVED A CALL FROM SOMEBODY AT YOUR OFFICE WHOSE NAME I -- I -- MC KENNA SOUNDS CORRECT. I DIDN'T -- DIDN'T TAKE THE NAME DOWN OR DIDN'T GET THE -- Q: HOW MANY -- HOW MANY -- DID YOU TALK TO HIM? A: I TALKED TO HIM, YES, SIR, I DID. Q: ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS? A: I TALKED TO HIM ONCE JUST VERY BRIEFLY. Q: WHAT DATE WAS THAT? A: THAT WAS THE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY I BELIEVE. Q: ARE YOU SURE OF THAT? A: I BELIEVE SO. Q: I'M JUST ASKING, ARE YOU SURE OF THAT OR ARE YOU JUST GUESSING? A: NO. TODAY IS FRIDAY. HE CALLED ME WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON. Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN HE CALLED YOU? A: I WAS AT MY OFFICE. Q: AND DID HE ASK TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT YOUR OBSERVATIONS? A: HE SAID THAT HE WORKED FOR THE DEFENSE TEAM AND WAS AN INVESTIGATOR AND HE HAD SEEN MY NAME FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S LIST AND HE HOPED TO HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK TO ME AT SOME POINT. I TOLD HIM THAT I WAS LEAVING NOW, I DIDN'T FEEL VERY WELL AND THAT -- THAT WE COULD TALK LATER. Q: YOU COULD TALK LATER? A: WE DID NOT TALK LATER. Q: BUT YOU TOLD HIM WE COULD -- YOU COULD TALK LATER? A: I SAID LET'S -- CALL BACK LATER. Q: AND DID YOU TELL HIM WHEN TO CALL BACK LATER? A: UMM, YOU KNOW, I -- I SAID, "I'M -- I'M LEAVING NOW." I SAID, "LET'S TALK LIKE MAYBE NEXT WEEK." Q: NEXT WEEK? A: I THINK THAT WAS WHAT I SAID TO HIM. Q: AFTER YOUR TESTIMONY? A: I DID NOT KNOW AT THE TIME THAT I WAS GOING TO BE TESTIFYING THEN. Q: DID YOU HAVE HIS NUMBER? A: NO, SIR, I DID NOT. Q: DID YOU HAVE MY NUMBER? A: I RECEIVED YOUR NUMBER LAST NIGHT. Q: DID YOU RECEIVE MY HOME NUMBER? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU GET A REQUEST THAT I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED? A: YES, I -- I DID. Q: DID YOU CALL ME BACK? A: NO, I DID NOT. MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER. THE COURT: MR. DARDEN. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN: Q: MR. CALE, IS THERE SOME REASON THAT YOU DID NOT CALL MR. SHAPIRO BACK LAST NIGHT? A: WELL, I RECEIVED A CALL FROM A MUTUAL FRIEND SOMETIME IN THE -- AFTER 8:00 O'CLOCK IN THE EVENING. I HAD REALLY NOT BEEN FEELING WELL AS I HAD EXPLAINED AND I REALLY -- I DID NOT KNOW THAT I WAS GOING TO BE NECESSARILY TESTIFYING TODAY AND I DIDN'T REALLY THINK AT 8:15 I NEEDED TO CALL HIM BACK. I DIDN'T FEEL UP TO IT. Q: AND DID YOU ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN THIS TO MR. SHAPIRO THIS MORNING? A: YES, SIR, I DID. Q: OKAY. IN FACT, WE DRAGGED YOU OUT OF YOUR SICK BED TODAY, DIDN'T WE? A: WELL, YES. Q: YOU'VE TESTIFIED THAT YOU WERE OUT ON ROCKINGHAM AROUND 9:30 OR 9:45 P.M. SUNDAY NIGHT; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND SO IF A LIMOUSINE HAD PARKED ON ROCKINGHAM AT 10:22 P.M. SUNDAY NIGHT, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE SEEN THAT LIMOUSINE, WOULD YOU? A: I WAS IN BED. DON'T KNOW THAT I WAS ASLEEP, BUT I WAS IN BED. Q: OKAY. AND IF THE LIMO WAS AT ROCKINGHAM AT 10:39, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN IT? A: SAME ANSWER. Q: AND YOU DID GIVE A STATEMENT TO THE POLICE IN LATE JANUARY; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR, I DID. Q: AND WHEN MR. MC KENNA, THE DEFENSE INVESTIGATOR, CONTACTED YOU, IT WAS JUST THIS PAST WEDNESDAY; IS THAT RIGHT? A: IT WAS WEDNESDAY IN THE LATTER PART OF THE AFTERNOON. Q: AND THAT WOULD BE MARCH 29? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND DOES THE STATEMENT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU, THE ONE MR. SHAPIRO GAVE TO YOU, INDICATE THE DATE OF YOUR INTERVIEW? A: JANUARY 25, 1995. Q: YOU SPOKE TO THE POLICE ON JANUARY 25 AND MR. MC KENNA CONTACTED YOU ON MARCH 29? A: YES, SIR. MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHEN YOU SPOKE TO THE POLICE IN JANUARY, DID YOU GIVE THEM THE APPROXIMATE TIME IN WHICH YOU WERE OUT WALKING THE DOG? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU TELL THEM ABOUT THE BRONCO NOT BEING THERE? A: YES, SIR. MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU, SIR. THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SHAPIRO: Q: WHEN YOU WERE WALKING YOUR DOG, SIR, DID YOU SEE A BENTLEY AUTOMOBILE DRIVING UP ROCKINGHAM? A: NO, SIR. Q: IF A BENTLEY HAD BEEN DRIVING UP BETWEEN 9:30 AND 9:45, WERE YOU IN A POSITION TO SEE IT? A: IF IT HAD ITS HEADLIGHTS ON AND UP THAT FAR TO THE CORNER, I WOULD HAVE BEEN, YES, SIR. Q: YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT A BENTLEY LOOKS LIKE? A: YES, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN A BENTLEY VEHICLE AT MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU SEE THAT VEHICLE DRIVING UP BETWEEN 9:30 AND 9:45? A: UH, NO, SIR. Q: WHEN WERE YOU TOLD BY ANY MEMBER OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OR PROSECUTION THAT YOU WOULD BE REQUIRED TO COME TO COURT TODAY? A: UH, I WAS ASKED YESTERDAY TO COME THIS MORNING TO MEET WITH MR. DARDEN. I DID NOT KNOW THAT I WAS GOING TO TESTIFY TILL I GOT HERE. Q: WHAT TIME WERE YOU ASKED YESTERDAY TO COME TO COURT? A: IT WAS IN THE MORNING. Q: HAD YOU RECEIVED A SUBPOENA TO COME TO COURT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHAT IS A SUBPOENA? A: IT'S A ORDER OF THE COURT TO APPEAR. Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE? A: TO TESTIFY. Q: AS A WITNESS. A: YES. Q: SO WHEN YOU GOT MY RE -- MY INQUIRY TO KINDLY CALL ME BACK AT 8:30, YOU KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO BE A WITNESS TODAY IN THIS COURTROOM; DID YOU NOT? A: NO, I DID NOT. Q: YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE SUBPOENA? A: I HAD BEEN SUBPOENAED SOME WEEKS AGO. I HAD BEEN TOLD THAT I WAS ON CALL, THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER THEY WOULD USE ME AND THAT THEY WANTED TO HAVE ME MEET WITH MR. DARDEN, AT WHICH TIME THERE WOULD BE DISCUSSION OR DECISION MADE BY MR. DARDEN WHETHER, WHEN AND IF I WOULD TESTIFY. I MET WITH MR. DARDEN THIS MORNING. Q: YOU KNEW COURT WAS IN SESSION TODAY; DID YOU NOT? A: I THINK SO. Q: AND YOU KNOW MR. DARDEN'S ONE OF THE LAWYERS IN THIS CASE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND, YOU KNOW HE'S IN COURT EVERY SINGLE DAY? A: I -- GUESS -- I GUESS HE IS IN COURT EVERY DAY, YES, SIR. Q: AND THAT YOUR WIFE WAS TOLD BY -- AT MY REQUEST, THAT YOU WERE SUBPOENAED AS A WITNESS BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY FOR TODAY? SHE TOLD YOU THAT, DIDN'T SHE? A: I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T FOLLOW THE QUESTION. Q: DIDN'T YOUR WIFE TELL YOU YESTERDAY THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE A WITNESS IN THIS CASE TODAY? A: NO. I DON'T THINK MY WIFE TOLD ME THAT. Q: WELL, SIR, AS A LAWYER, HAVING RECEIVED A SUBPOENA, BEING PUT ON CALL, BEING NOTIFIED THAT YOU WERE TO COME TO COURT AND TO SEE MR. DARDEN WHO HAS BEEN IN COURT EVERY DAY SINCE THIS CASE HAS BEGUN, DID YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE A WITNESS IN THIS CASE, SIR? A: I THOUGHT THERE WAS A CHANCE THAT I WOULD BE. I DID NOT KNOW THAT I WOULD BE A WITNESS TODAY. Q: AND KNOWING THAT, YOU STILL DID NOT RETURN MY PHONE CALL, DID YOU? A: I RECEIVED YOUR PHONE CALL, SIR, AT 8:15. I HAD BEEN IN BED MUCH OF THE DAY AND I THOUGHT AT THAT POINT THAT IT REALLY WASN'T INCUMBENT UPON ME TO CALL YOU BACK. Q: AND I ALSO -- A: I DID MAKE MYSELF AVAILABLE HERE TO YOU THIS MORNING. Q: AND I ALSO TOLD YOU THIS MORNING THAT IF YOU WERE NOT FEELING WELL, THAT WE WOULD HAVE NO OBJECTION TO RECESSING THIS CASE AND YOU COMING BACK WHEN YOU WERE FEELING FINE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: THAT IS CORRECT. Q: AND AT THAT POINT IN TIME, YOU SAID YOU WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO MR. DARDEN, DIDN'T YOU? A: YES. Q: AND I WAS NEVER GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO YOU UNTIL YOU TOOK THE WITNESS STAND; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: I DON'T -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: DID YOU ALLOW ME TO TALK TO YOU AFTER THAT CONVERSATION? A: MR. SHAPIRO, I WAS SITTING THERE. I EXPECTED THAT YOU WOULD COME BACK. YOU DIDN'T. I -- I -- YOU -- I TALKED WITH MR. DARDEN ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT HE WAS GOING TO PUT ME ON NOW OR WHETHER I SHOULD COME BACK LATER. Q: AND WHAT DID MR. DARDEN TELL YOU? A: HE SAID HE WANTED TO PUT ME ON NOW. Q: AND DID YOU TELL HIM THAT YOU WERE FEELING ILL AND THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE PUT ON? A: I TOLD HIM I DIDN'T FEEL PARTICULARLY WELL. Q: DID YOU TELL HIM YOU WOULD RATHER NOT TESTIFY TODAY, YOU WOULD RATHER TAKE MR. SHAPIRO'S SUGGESTION AND COME BACK WHEN YOU WERE FEELING BETTER? A: I WOULD RATHER NOT TESTIFY AT ALL. MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER. THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, ANYTHING ELSE? MR. DARDEN: MR. CALE, I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER, SIR. THE COURT: MR. CALE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU ARE EXCUSED. THE WITNESS: THANK YOU. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET ME SEE COUNSEL WITHOUT THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE. (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO -- I'M ADVISED THAT WE ARE GOING TO SHIFT THE FOCUS OF THE CASE NOW TO THE COLLECTION OF THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE IN THE CASE. BEFORE WE DO THAT, I NEED TO LOOK AT SOME OF THE EXHIBITS THAT ARE GOING TO BE PRESENTED AND I MAY NEED TO MAKE SOME RULINGS AS TO WHAT WILL BE PRESENTED TO YOU DURING THAT PHASE OF THE TRIAL SINCE WE'RE GOING TO BE SHIFTING GEARS HERE. I ANTICIPATE THAT THAT WILL TAKE ME A COUPLE HOURS TO DO. SO I AM GOING TO CUT YOU LOOSE FOR THE MORNING SESSION. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU; DO NOT DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS AND DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU WITH REGARD TO THE CASE. AND I'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE MONDAY MORNING, 9:00 A.M. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS AS FAR AS THE JURY IS CONCERNED. AS SOON AS THEY'RE CLEARED, WE'LL RECONVENE FOR THE EVIDENCE DETERMINATIONS. ALL RIGHT. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THERE WAS AN ISSUE RAISED BY I BELIEVE MR. SCHECK AND MR. NEUFELD CONCERNING THE TERMINOLOGY THAT I USED IN THE CHRISTOPHER JONES CASE -- JOHNSON CASE CONCERNING A MATCH AND COUNSEL HAS DELIBERATELY MISREPRESENTED TO THE COURT THE IMPORT OF THE TERMINOLOGY AND THE EXCHANGE THAT OCCURRED IN THE COURSE OF THE HEARING FROM THE CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON CASE. THE UNFAIRNESS OF THAT IS THAT THIS COURT AND THE PUBLICITY THAT DEGENERATES GENERATES FROM EVERY HEARING THAT WE HAVE HAS NOW BEEN COMPLETELY FALSIFIED IN TERMS OF WHAT ACTUALLY TRANSPIRED IN COURT. COUNSEL NOW PROFFERS TO THE COURT A MERE FEW PAGES FROM A TRANSCRIPT SEEKING TO ESTABLISH THE BASIS OF THEIR -- OF THE MISREPRESENTATION THAT THEY HAVE MADE TO THIS COURT. I WOULD ASK THAT THE COURT REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE MERE FEW PAGES THEY HAVE PROFFERED AND INSIST ON THE ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT. THE COURT: MISS CLARK, LET ME -- FORGIVE ME FOR INTERRUPTING YOU, BUT I HAVE A DISLIKE OF EXCERPTS FROM TRANSCRIPTS AS WELL. I'VE ALREADY ORDERED THE COMPLETE COURT FILE. MRS. ROBERTSON ADVISES ME THAT THE COMPLETE TRANSCRIPT AT MY REQUEST HAS BEEN DELIVERED TO THE COURT. MS. CLARK: GREAT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE OTHER POINT I WISH TO MAKE TO THE COURT IN ADVANCE -- THE COURT: WHICH MEANS, I GET TO READ A WHOLE LOT MORE STUFF. MS. CLARK: YEAH. EVEN THOUGH -- WHICH IS EXACTLY I KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO. THE COURT: THIS WEEKEND, YES. MS. CLARK: EXACTLY. YOU HAVE VOLUMES. AND I WANT -- AND LET ME ASSIST THE COURT IN THAT REGARD WHEN YOU SEE IT. THE CHRISTOPHER JOHNSON MATTER WAS A PATERNITY MATCH. IT WAS A MURDER CASE -- THE COURT: I NOTED THAT. MS. CLARK: -- WITHOUT A BODY -- THE COURT: I NOTED THAT. MS. CLARK: OKAY. SO WHEN WE DISCUSSED THE ISSUE OF A MATCH, THE WITNESS SAID, "WELL, I CAN'T SAY THERE'S A MATCH BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE A KNOWN SAMPLE FROM THE VICTIM." WE HAVE NO BODY OF THE VICTIM. ALL WE HAVE IS A BLOODSTAIN AT A CRIME SCENE AND WE'RE SEEKING TO ESTABLISH WHETHER THAT BLOOD COULD HAVE BEEN THE BLOOD OF THE SON OF THIS FATHER, THE HUSBAND OF THIS MOTHER OR WIFE, THE FATHER OF THIS CHILD AND THE SIBLING OF THIS SISTER. SO I MEAN, IT WAS A PATERNITY MATCH WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND THAT'S WHY THE WITNESS WAS SAYING, WE CAN'T SAY A MATCH BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE SOMETHING TO MATCH IT TOO. WE CAN ONLY SAY THAT THIS BLOOD IS CONSISTENT WITH BEING A RELATIVE OF THESE PEOPLE IN THIS REGARD. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, I DON'T WANT TO LITIGATE THAT ISSUE NOW. MS. CLARK: OKAY. BUT IT IS A TOTALLY SEPARATE SITUATION FROM WHAT WE HAVE HERE. IT'S NOT THE SAME SITUATION. THE COURT: IN READING THE EXCERPT, ENOUGH INTERESTING THINGS CAME UP, SPECIFICALLY THE PATERNITY ISSUES AND WHAT THE TEST WAS THAT CAUSED ME TO ORDER THE COMPLETE FILE, WHICH I'VE DONE. MS. CLARK: OKAY. WHEN WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO BE PREPARED TO ADDRESS THIS MATTER IF EVER? THE COURT: OBVIOUSLY WE'LL HAVE TO REACH THAT ISSUE SOMETIME WHEN WE GET INTO THE DNA TESTING. MS. CLARK: OKAY. THE COURT: BUT I'VE GOT IT. I'LL LOOK AT IT. WE'LL SEE WHAT'S THERE. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. NOW, THE ISSUE IS THE -- COUNSEL, YOU WANTED TO HAVE A HEARING WITH REGARDS TO THE VIDEOTAPE. MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR, THAT'S TRUE. IF WE CAN'T FINISH TODAY, WE CAN COME BACK AND FINISH MONDAY MORNING IF YOUR HONOR WANTS US TO. THE COURT: NO. I WOULD LIKE TO FINISH TODAY. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THE COURT: UNLESS YOU HAVE SOME OTHER COMMITMENTS. BUT LET'S FINISH THIS ISSUE. MR. COCHRAN: I DO HAVE OTHER COMMITMENTS, BUT LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. MISS CLARK TOOK FIVE MINUTES OF OUR TIME I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT. WE ARE READY TO PROCEED. I WOULD ASK THE FOUR WITNESSES WE ANTICIPATE CALLING, ARE THEY HERE? MS. LEWIS: THEY'RE IN A NEARBY WAITING ROOM. MR. COCHRAN: THEY'RE WHERE? MS. LEWIS: IN A NEARBY WAITING ROOM. WHO WAS IT YOU WANTED TO CALL FIRST? MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO EXCLUDE THE WITNESSES. I WOULD LIKE TO CALL MR. ADKINS FIRST. ADKINS. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. AND WHILE WE'RE WAITING, DURING THE COURSE OF THE EXAMINATION OF MR. CALE, I THINK, MR. SHAPIRO, YOU NEGLECTED TO MARK ONE OF YOUR EXHIBITS? MR. SHAPIRO: YES, I DID, YOUR HONOR. MAY I ASK LEAVE OF THE COURT TO MARK THE TELEGRAPH I WAS SHOWING TO THE WITNESS AS DEFENSE 1067. THE COURT: MRS. ROBERTSON, 1067? ALL RIGHT. THIS IS THE PHOTOGRAPH BY -- THAT MR. CALE CIRCLED THE AUTOMOBILE THAT APPEARS IN THE LOWER LEFT-HAND CORNER OF THE PHOTOGRAPH? MR. SHAPIRO: THAT'S CORRECT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SO MARKED. MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. (DEFT'S 1067 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: AND, MR. COCHRAN, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO WANT TO INTERVIEW AFTER THIS FIRST PERSON? MR. COCHRAN: FORD, YOUR HONOR. ATKINSON FORD. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. HERE'S OUR FIRST WITNESS. DAVID ADKINS (402), CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE DEFENDANT, PURSUANT TO EVIDENCE CODE SECTION 402, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? THE WITNESS: I DO. THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD. THE WITNESS: DAVID ADKINS, D-A-V-I-D A-D-K-I-N-S. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: GOOD MORNING, MR. ADKINS. A: GOOD MORNING. Q: AND WHAT IS YOUR OCCUPATION, SIR? A: I'M THE PRINCIPLE PHOTOGRAPHER FOR THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES. Q: AND BY WHICH DEPARTMENT ARE YOU EMPLOYED? A: THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. Q: AND ARE YOU A CIVILIAN EMPLOYEE OF THAT DEPARTMENT? A: YES, I AM. Q: AND FOR HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN EMPLOYED BY THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, SIR? A: ALMOST SIX YEARS. Q: I WOULD LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION BACK TO THE DATE OF JUNE 13TH, WHICH I BELIEVE WAS A MONDAY, OF 1994. DID YOU AT SOME TIME ON THAT DAY RECEIVE A CALL TO COME TO A LOCATION ON ROCKINGHAM IN THE BRENTWOOD AREA? A: YES, I DID. Q: AND CAN YOU TELL THE COURT WHO CALLED YOU AT THAT TIME AND WHAT TIME DID THEY CALL YOU? A: I WAS CALLED BY DETECTIVE HARO AND IT WAS PROBABLY BETWEEN -- ABOUT 1:30 AND 2:30. Q: OKAY. DETECTIVE HARO CALLED YOU? A: YES. Q: AND WHAT'S HIS FIRST NAME? A: I DON'T KNOW. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND -- A: I THINK IT'S BILL. Q: HUH? A: I THINK IT MAY BE BILL. Q: ALL RIGHT. AT THAT TIME, YOU WERE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, EMPLOYED IN THE PHOTO LAB OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND WHAT WAS YOUR -- WHAT WAS YOUR TITLE OR RANK THEREIN? A: I'M THE OFFICER IN CHARGE OF THE SECTION. I MANAGE THE DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS OF THE PHOTOGRAPHIC SECTION. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHAT -- THAT EXISTED BACK IN JUNE OF 1994? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU GOT THIS CALL BETWEEN 1:30 AND 2:30, WHAT WAS THE -- WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF THE CALL? WHAT WERE YOU ASKED TO DO? A: I WAS CALLED TO RESPOND TO PHOTOGRAPH -- MAKE A VIDEO OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOME. Q: ALL RIGHT. A VIDEO OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOME? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND YOU GOT THESE INSTRUCTIONS FROM MR. HARO? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND DID MR. HARO TELL YOU WHY HE WANTED YOU TO MAKE A VIDEO OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOME? A: NO. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND BASED UPON THAT CALL, DID YOU DO SOMETHING? A: YES. Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO? A: I RESPONDED BY TRYING TO LOCATE A PHOTOGRAPHER. THAT WAS A VERY BUSY DAY AND I HAD TO PULL SOMEBODY FROM OUR DISPATCHER TO TAKE THEM OUT TO THE SCENE. Q: AND DID YOU ULTIMATELY LOCATE A PHOTOGRAPHER? A: WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT, PLEASE? Q: DID YOU ULTIMATELY LOCATE A PHOTOGRAPHER? A: YES, I DID. Q: AND WHO DID YOU LOCATE? A: WILLIE FORD. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HE'S ONE OF THE GENTLEMEN WHO WORKS IN YOUR PARTICULAR SECTION? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO GO OUT TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE? A: YES, I DID. Q: AND DID YOU GO WITH SOMEONE ELSE? A: OTHER THAN MR. FORD? Q: THE TWO OF YOU WENT TOGETHER? A: AT THAT TIME? Q: YES. A: NO. Q: JUST THE TWO OF YOU WENT TO ROCKINGHAM? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: OKAY. SO WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE AT ROCKINGHAM IF YOU RECALL? A: I DON'T RECALL, BUT I THINK IT WAS PROBABLY SOMEWHERE AROUND 3:00, 3:30. Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU HAVE ANY NOTES OR ANY REPORTS THAT WERE WRITTEN CONTEMPORANEOUSLY WITH YOUR OBSERVATIONS BACK ON JUNE 13TH, 1994? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: SO EVERYTHING YOU'RE TESTIFYING ABOUT IS FROM YOUR INDEPENDENT -- YOUR RECOLLECTION, YOUR INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION ON ANY KIND OF DOCUMENTS, RIGHT? A: TO -- RELATING TO WHAT MATTER? Q: AS TO THE TIME YOU GOT THE CALL TO THE TIME YOU ARRIVED AT ROCKINGHAM. A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: YOU'RE TESTIFYING TO YOUR MEMORY; IS THAT RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION IS THAT YOU AND MR. FORD WENT OUT TO ROCKINGHAM TOGETHER AND ARRIVED THERE AT ABOUT WHAT TIME? A: BETWEEN 3:00 AND 3:30. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO MEET WITH ANY DETECTIVES? A: YES. Q: AND WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN ANY INSTRUCTIONS WERE GIVEN AS TO WHAT YOU WERE TO SHOOT AT ROCKINGHAM? A: YES. Q: OKAY. TELL US ABOUT THAT. WHO DID YOU TALK TO FIRST OF ALL? A: WHEN MR. FORD AND I FIRST ARRIVED, WE WERE MET BY DETECTIVE HARPER, AND HE EXPLAINED THAT THEY WANTED AN OVERALL OF THE EXTERIOR AND INTERIOR SHOTS, AND THEN HE HANDED US OFF TO DETECTIVE HARO. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOUR FIRST CONVERSATION WAS WITH DETECTIVE HARPER. AND WHAT DID HE SAY ABOUT THE EXTERIOR SHOTS HE WANTED YOU TO GET? A: NOTHING SPECIFIC. HE JUST REQUESTED THEY WANTED GENERAL PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOME. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU SAY "PHOTOGRAPHS," DID HE WANT A VIDEO OF THE EXTERIOR OF THE HOME? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND WAS MR. FORD IN YOUR PRESENCE WHEN THOSE INSTRUCTIONS WERE GIVEN? A: I'M NOT SURE. Q: YOU RECALL THAT YOU WERE THERE? A: YES. Q: AND WOULD YOU ASSUME THAT SINCE MR. FORD WAS GOING TO DO THE SHOOTING, HE WAS ALSO THERE TO HEAR THIS? A: PROBABLY. YES, I WOULD ASSUME HE WOULD BE THERE SOMEWHERE. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER YOUR INITIAL CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE HARPER, YOU THEN WERE TURNED OVER TO DETECTIVE HARO, H-A-R-O, RIGHT? A: CORRECT. Q: AND WHERE WAS HARO WHEN YOU FIRST TALKED TO HIM ON THAT DATE? A: I DON'T SPECIFICALLY RECALL, BUT I THINK IT WAS OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOME. Q: DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE HARO? A: YES. Q: AND WHO WAS PRESENT DURING THAT CONVERSATION? A: TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, IT WAS JUST MR. FORD AND MYSELF. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AGAIN, TELL US ABOUT THE CONVERSATION WITH MR. HARO. A: IT WAS A REITERATION OF THE FIRST INSTRUCTIONS, THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO GET VIDEOTAPE OF THE EXTERIOR AS WELL AS THE INTERIOR OF THE HOME. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND ANY OTHER INSTRUCTIONS AT THAT TIME? A: NO. Q: DID -- WERE YOU TOLD AT THIS POINT WHY YOU WERE DOING THIS, WHY WERE YOU SHOOTING OR ABOUT TO VIDEOTAPE THE SIMPSON HOME? A: I DON'T RECALL SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS WERE GIVEN TO US AS TO WHY WE WERE PHOTOGRAPHING IT. MY UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHY WE WERE PHOTOGRAPHING IT WAS JUST TO DOCUMENT THE WAY THAT THE HOME LOOKED AT THIS POINT IN TERMS OF WHAT VEHICLES ARE THERE, WHAT LANDSCAPING IS THERE, AND ON THE INTERIOR, WHAT ITEMS ARE SITTING WHERE IN THE HOME. Q: WAS IT KIND OF A -- KIND OF A RECORD OF INVENTORY? A: PRETTY MUCH, YES. Q: AND DID YOU ALSO -- WERE YOU ALSO TOLD THAT YOU WANTED TO GET -- MAKE A RECORD OF EVERYTHING SEIZED BY THE POLICE PURSUANT TO A SEARCH WARRANT? A: NO. Q: YOU DID NOT INDICATE THAT THIS MORNING? THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU INDICATED THAT YOU -- THAT WAS YOUR IMPRESSION? A: NO. Q: YOU DID NOT INDICATE THAT IN THE CONVERSATION THIS MORNING? A: NO. Q: DID YOU INDICATE THIS MORNING THAT ONE OF THE PURPOSES OF YOUR DOING THIS VIDEO WAS FOR CIVIL LIABILITY PURPOSES? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: TELL US ABOUT THAT. A: THERE HAVE BEEN CASES IN THE PAST WHEN POLICE OFFICERS HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENTER A HOME OR HAD AN OCCASION TO ENTER A HOME WHEN CLAIMS HAVE BEEN MADE AGAINST THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SUCH AS THINGS WERE MISSING, THERE WAS AN EXPENSIVE VASE THERE, THINGS OF THAT NATURE, THINGS WERE RUINED. WHAT WE LIKE TO DO IS COME IN AND DOCUMENT THE CONDITION OF THE HOME AT THAT TIME SO THAT IF IT WAS EVER NEEDED AGAIN, WE COULD SHOW THAT THAT WAS THERE, WAS NOT THERE. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO THAT'S THE CIVIL LIABILITY ASPECT. A: UH-HUH. Q: WERE YOU ALSO -- DID YOU ALSO INDICATE THIS MORNING THAT ONE OF THE PURPOSES OF YOUR SHOOTING THE VIDEO WAS TO HELP THE DETECTIVES TO SEE WHERE ITEMS WERE RECOVERED? A: NO, I DID NOT. Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU HAD A CONVERSATION THIS MORNING WITH THE GENTLEMEN TO MY IMMEDIATE LEFT HERE, MR. SCHECK AND MR. NEUFELD; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AFTER YOU TALKED TO THEM, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO TALK WITH SOME MEMBERS OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S STAFF THIS MORNING? A: NO. Q: YOU DID NOT TALK TO ANYBODY FROM THE D.A.'S OFFICE? A: WHEN YOU SAW TALK TO THEM, MORE THAN SAY HELLO OR CASUAL CONVERSATION? Q: YES. WHEN YOU TALKED -- I AM SORRY. TALKED TO THEM ABOUT YOUR TESTIMONY AT ALL. A: NO, I DID NOT. Q: OKAY. AND SO DO YOU HAVE A RECOLLECTION THAT YOU INDICATED THIS MORNING THAT YOU -- THAT YOU SAID TO SCHECK AND NEUFELD TO -- THAT YOU -- YOUR RECORDATION, YOUR VIDEO RECORDATION WAS TO HELP THE DETECTIVES SEE IN THE FUTURE WHERE ITEMS WERE RECOVERED? A: NO, I DID NOT. Q: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: HAVE A SECOND, YOUR HONOR? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU EVER INDICATE TO EITHER MR. SCHECK OR NEUFELD THAT YOU WANTED TO MAKE A VIDEO RECORD SO THINGS WEREN'T SEIZED AND YOU WANTED TO GO BACK AT A FUTURE TIME AND SEIZE THEM, YOU WOULD HAVE AN ACTUAL RECORD OF WHERE THESE THINGS WERE? DID YOU EVER INDICATE THAT? A: I MAY HAVE SAID SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. Q: WELL, WHAT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING BACK ON JUNE 13TH IN THAT REGARD? A: THE -- THE REASON THAT WE PHOTOGRAPHED THE INSIDE WAS, AS I MAINLY -- AS I STATED, MAINLY WAS FOR THE CIVIL LIABILITIES ISSUES. Q: YES. A: SOMETIMES IF THE DETECTIVE IS REVIEWING THIS VIDEOTAPE AND NOTICES SOMETHING ELSE, THEY MAY WANT TO REVISIT THAT LOCATION. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO TO PROVIDE SOME HELP FOR THE DETECTIVES IN LATER SEARCH WARRANTS IF THERE IS TO BE ONE OR WHERE THINGS ARE IN THE RESIDENCE, RIGHT? A: THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT THE TAPE COULD BE USED IN THAT WAY, YES. Q: ALL RIGHT, SIR. NOW, YOU'VE HAD OCCASION TO SEE THAT TAPE; HAVE YOU NOT? A: I HAVE NOT SEEN THE TAPE IN ITS ENTIRETY, NO. Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU SEE IT BEING SHOWN AT LEAST PARTIALLY THIS MORNING? A: YES, I DID. Q: IS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE SEEN IT? A: YES, IT IS. Q: SINCE JUNE 13TH? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THE MAN WHO ACTUALLY SHOT THE TAPE IS, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, MR. WILLIE FORD; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT CORRECT. Q: AND HE'S HERE THIS MORNING ALSO? A: HE IS. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THE -- DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT KIND OF CAMERA MR. FORD WAS USING ON THAT DATE? A: I'M SORRY. WOULD YOU REPEAT THAT QUESTION? Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT KIND OF A CAMERA MR. FORD WAS USING ON THAT DATE ON JUNE 13TH? A: YES. IT WAS AN RCA VHS CAMCORDER. Q: CAMCORDER? A: UH-HUH. Q: AND IS THERE A TIME AND DATE ON THAT PARTICULAR -- PARTICULAR CAMERA? A: YES, THERE IS. Q: AND PRIOR TO THIS DATE OF JUNE 13TH, 1994, HAD YOU HAD OCCASION TO VIDEO OTHER CRIME SCENES IN YOUR CAPACITY IN THE PHOTO LAB AT LAPD? A: PERSONALLY VIDEO MYSELF OR -- Q: NO. BEEN PRESENT WHEN THEY'VE BEEN DONE AT YOUR LAB, HAD OCCASION TO DO THAT. MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION. VAGUE. PRESENT AT HIS LAB. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: HAVE THERE BEEN OTHER OCCASIONS WHERE INDIVIDUALS WHO WORK FOR YOU IN THE LAB OF THE LAPD BEEN ASKED TO VIDEO CRIME SCENES? A: YES. Q: AND HOW MANY OCCASIONS IN THE LAST YEAR? A: FEWER THAN SIX. Q: AND HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION TO GO ON ANY OF THOSE VIDEO SHOOTS? A: YES. Q: AND UNDER WHAT CIRCUMSTANCES DO -- DOES THE LAPD USE THOSE VIDEO SHOOTS AT CRIME SCENES? A: I WOULD REALLY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE AS TO HOW THOSE ARE USED. Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT FEWER THAN SIX, MEANING HOW MANY, YOUR BEST ESTIMATE? A: THAT'S A PRETTY CLOSE ESTIMATE, FEWER THAN SIX. Q: BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN THOUGH? IS THAT ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE? A: ALL RIGHT. FOUR. Q: I WANT YOUR BEST ESTIMATE. FOUR? A: FOUR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HOW MANY OF THOSE FOUR HAD YOU BEEN OUT ON? A: TWO. Q: AND YOU DON'T RECALL ANY PARTICULAR REASON WHY THOSE FOUR WERE CHOSEN OR THERE WERE VIDEO SHOOTS ON THOSE FOUR? A: WE WERE REQUESTED TO RESPOND WITH VIDEO, AND THAT'S THE REASON AS FAR AS MY LEVEL IS CONCERNED THAT WE -- THAT WE VIDEOTAPE THOSE. Q: ALL RIGHT. WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT BACK IN JUNE OF 1994, YOU DID NOT RESPOND TO EVERY CRIME SCENE IN LOS ANGELES TO VIDEO SHOOT, RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU EVER IN CONNECTION WITH THIS CASE EVER GO TO THE BUNDY SCENE AND DO ANY VIDEO SHOOTING? A: I WENT TO THE BUNDY LOCATION. WE DID NOT DO ANY VIDEO. Q: AND WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IT THERE? A: WE WERE NOT REQUESTED TO DO SO. Q: AND SO WHOEVER -- WAS THERE A DETECTIVE IN CHARGE OF BUNDY WHEN YOU GOT THERE? A: WAS THERE A DETECTIVE IN CHARGE? Q: YEAH. A: YES. Q: WHO WAS THAT? A: THE PERSON THAT I SPOKE WITH WAS DE -- WAS LIEUTENANT ROGERS. Q: OKAY. LIEUTENANT ROGERS. AND HE NEVER ASKED YOU TO SHOOT AT BUNDY? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: WHY WERE YOU OVER THERE? A: I WAS THERE TO RELIEVE DETER ROKAHR, TO HAVE A RELIEF FOR GARY GOODWIN OUT TO THAT SCENE. Q: AND DOES ROKAHR WORK IN YOUR UNIT? A: YES, HE DOES. Q: DO YOU SUPERVISE HIM? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND DID ROKAHR HAVE A VIDEO CAMERA WITH HIM THAT MORNING WHEN HE WAS AT -- THE COURT: AREN'T WE KIND OF FAR AFIELD ON THIS ISSUE? MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS IT. I'M ALMOST DONE. THE COURT: WELL, WE'VE GONE ABOUT EIGHT QUESTIONS ON BUNDY THAT'S IRRELEVANT TO THIS ISSUE. MR. COCHRAN: RIGHT. ALLOW ME JUST THIS -- THE COURT: TWO MORE. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: THIS IS IN THE WAY OF DISCOVERY ISSUE. MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY. NO, NOT EXACTLY, YOUR HONOR. I'LL LINK IT UP. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO ROKAHR, DID HE HAVE A VIDEO CAMERA THAT MORNING? A: NO, HE DID NOT. Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT HE DID WORK FOR YOU AT THAT POINT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND THERE WAS NO SHOOTING OF BUNDY? A: NO VIDEO SHOOTING? Q: NO VIDEO SHOOTING OF BUNDY. A: THAT'S CORRECT. MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER OF MR. ADKINS AT THIS POINT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: MISS LEWIS. MS. LEWIS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. JUST BRIEFLY. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. LEWIS: Q: MR. ADKINS, IS THERE A POLICY OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT WHICH YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHICH ALLOWS DETECTIVES AT THEIR DIR -- AT THEIR CHOICE TO EITHER HAVE STILL PHOTOS TAKEN OR VIDEOTAPES TAKEN OF LOCATIONS WHERE SEARCH WARRANTS ARE EXECUTED? A: I DON'T KNOW OF A SPECIFIC POLICY, BUT I -- THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING. Q: AND WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING WITH REGARD TO SEARCH WARRANTS BEING EXECUTED AND POSSIBLE CIVIL LIABILITY? DO YOU HAVE ONE IN THAT REGARD? A: IN TERMS OF SHOOTING VIDEO AND PHOTOGRAPHS? Q: YES. A: I KNOW THAT THEY'RE HIGHLY DESIRABLE. Q: WHY IS THAT? A: FOR PURPOSES AFTER THE FACT, AS I EXPLAINED BEFORE, TO SHOW THE CONDITION OF THE RESIDENCE AND THE CONDITION OF ART OBJECTS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE THERE. Q: AND WAS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE PURPOSE FOR YOUR PRESENCE AT ROCKINGHAM ON THAT PARTICULAR OCCASION, WAS TO DOCUMENT THE LOCATION OF ITEMS AND WHAT THOSE ITEMS LOOKED LIKE IN CASE OF FUTURE CIVIL LIABILITY? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: WHEN YOU WERE AT THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE ACCOMPANYING MR. FORD, WHO IS THE ONE WHO ACTUALLY TOOK THE VIDEOS, WAS THERE A POLICE DETECTIVE WITH YOU? A: AT ROCKINGHAM? Q: YES. A: YES. Q: AND WHO WAS THAT? A: THAT WAS DETECTIVE HARO. Q: AND ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE LEAD INVESTIGATORS IN THIS CASE ARE DETECTIVES VANNATTER AND LANGE? A: YES. Q: WERE THEY THERE AT THE LOCATION WHEN YOU WERE THERE? A: AT THAT TIME, FOR THE TIME THE VIDEO WAS TAKEN? Q: YES. A: I'M NOT SURE. Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOLLECTION OF SEEING THEM OR NOT? A: AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME? Q: YES. A: NO. Q: DID THE -- DID DETECTIVE HARO WHO ACCOMPANIED YOU, WHILE THE VIDEOTAPING WAS TAKING PLACE, DIRECT YOU TO VIDEOTAPE BLOOD DROPS ON THE DRIVEWAY? A: NO. Q: DID HE DIRECT YOU TO VIDEOTAPE A PATHWAY ALONG THE SOUTH PORTION OF THE RESIDENCE? A: NO. Q: DID THE VIDEOGRAPHER BASICALLY TAKE -- APPEAR TO BE POINTING HIS CAMERA AT OBJECTS, INCLUDING OBJECTS OF VALUE WITHIN WHAT MAY BE CALLED A TROPHY ROOM AT THE LOCATION? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THIS QUESTION. THE VIDEO SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION, PLEASE? Q: BY MS. LEWIS: DID THE VIDEOGRAPHER APPEAR TO BE POINTING THE VIDEOTAPE CAMERA AT OBJECTS WITHIN THE LOCATION OF -- INCLUDING THOSE OF VALUE SUCH AS THE OBJECTS IN THE TROPHY ROOM? A: YES. Q: SO IT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS VIDEO WAS TO BE TAKEN FOR PURPOSES OF POTENTIAL CIVIL LIABILITY IN THE FUTURE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT IS CORRECT. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM. THE VIDEO SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: THAT IS CORRECT. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING MORE, MR. COCHRAN? MR. COCHRAN: JUST ONE. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: DID YOU INDICATE THIS MORNING TO MR. NEUFELD THAT WITH REGARD TO THE FOUR OTHER CRIME SCENES THAT YOUR UNIT HAD BEEN ASKED TO VIDEO, THAT YOU SOMETIMES DID IT WHERE THE DETECTIVES THOUGHT IT WOULD HELP THEIR CASE? DID YOU INDICATE THAT? A: I MAY HAVE, YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WERE YOU ASKED TO SHOOT BLOOD DROPS IN THE FOYER OF THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE THAT DAY? A: NOT SPECIFICALLY, NO. Q: DID YOU SHOOT THAT? A: AGAIN, I WAS NOT THE CAMERAMAN, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THOSE VIDEO -- THOSE DROPS MAY HAVE BEEN IN THE VIDEO, BUT SPECIFIC EVIDENCE WAS NOT TO BE PHOTOGRAPHED. Q: I SEE. AND YOU WERE AWARE, WERE YOU NOT, THAT DETECTIVES VANNATTER AND LANGE WERE THE CO-LEAD INVESTIGATORS ON THE SIMPSON CASE, WEREN'T YOU? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: YOU KNEW THAT THAT DAY, RIGHT? A: I'M NOT SURE I KNEW THAT THAT DAY. Q: YOU KNEW IT AT SOME TIME SHORTLY AROUND THAT TIME; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND YOU KNEW THAT MR. HARO AND MR. HARPER BOTH WORKED IN ROBBERY-HOMICIDE; DID YOU NOT? A: YES. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S ALL I HAVE OF THIS WITNESS. THE COURT: MISS LEWIS? MS. LEWIS: NO QUESTIONS. THE COURT: MR. ADKINS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. MR. COCHRAN: MR. FORD. THE COURT: MR. FORD. MADAM REPORTER, ANY OBLIGATIONS AT NOONTIME? THE COURT REPORTER: NO, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: MRS. ROBERTSON? (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO WANT AFTER THIS? MR. COCHRAN: AFTER FORD, YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO WANT LUPER, DETECTIVE LUPER. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE DETECTIVE LUPER WAITING OUTSIDE. MS. LEWIS: THEY'RE ALL IN THE WAITING ROOM ON THIS FLOOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. FORD? THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, SIR. THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING. WILLIE FORD, JR. (402), CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE DEFENDANT, PURSUANT TO EVIDENCE CODE SECTION 402, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU PLEASE FACE THE CLERK. THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM. THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD. THE WITNESS: MY NAME IS WILLIE FORD, JR. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: MR. FORD, WHAT IS YOUR OCCUPATION, SIR? A: PHOTOGRAPHER FOR THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES. Q: AND FOR HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAVE BEEN SO EMPLOYED? A: 13 YEARS. Q: I WOULD LIKE TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION BACK TO THE DATE OF JUNE 13TH, 1994. YOU WERE EMPLOYED BY THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AT THAT TIME AS A PHOTOGRAPHER? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL TO GO TO SOME LOCATION ON THAT DATE, IN THE AFTERNOON HOURS OF THAT DATE? A: YES, SIR. Q: WHAT TIME DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL, SIR, ON THAT PARTICULAR DATE? A: I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT CALL, BUT IT WAS AFTERNOON, SOMETIME IN THE AFTERNOON. Q: YOU HAD OCCASION -- WE HAD OCCASION TO SPEAK TO YOUR EARLIER THIS MORNING; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND AT THAT TIME, DID YOU INDICATE TO US THAT YOU BELIEVED YOU RECEIVED A CALL SOMEWHERE AROUND 1:30? A: YES, I DID. Q: AND AFTER YOU RECEIVED THIS CALL, WERE YOU ASKED TO GO TO SOME LOCATION? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHERE WAS THAT? A: ON ROCKINGHAM. Q: OKAY. AND THAT'S IN THE BRENTWOOD AREA? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU GO TO THE BRENTWOOD AREA ACCOMPANIED BY SOME INDIVIDUAL? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHO WAS THAT? A: THAT WAS MY BOSS, DAVID ADKINS. Q: THAT'S THE MAN WHO JUST PRECEDED YOU ON THE STAND? A: YES, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU HAVE SOME INSTRUCTIONS WHEN GOING TO THE BRENTWOOD RESIDENCE ON ROCKINGHAM? A: YES, SIR. Q: WHAT WERE YOUR INSTRUCTIONS, SIR? A: TO PHOTOGRAPH MR. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY, ANY AND EVERYTHING FROM HIS CARS, LAWN FURNITURE TO PICTURES ON THE WALL. Q: IN OTHER WORDS, YOU WOULD HAVE PHOTOGRAPHED EVERYTHING YOU SAW; IS THAT CORRECT? A: EVERYTHING. Q: AND BY THE WAY, WHO GAVE YOU THOSE INSTRUCTIONS? A: I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NAMES. THE DETECTIVES IN CHARGE AT THE SCENE. Q: OKAY. THE DETECTIVES IN CHARGE OF THE SCENE? A: YES. Q: WOULD THE NAME DETECTIVE HARPER -- A: YES. Q: -- BE ONE OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS? A: YES, SIR. Q: IS THAT AN AFRICAN AMERICAN OFFICER? A: I -- I DON'T KNOW. Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT ABOUT DETECTIVE HARO, H-A-R-O? WAS HE ONE OF THE ONES -- A: YES, SIR. Q: -- WHO TALKED TO YOU? ALL RIGHT. AND YOUR INSTRUCTIONS WERE THAT YOU WERE TO SHOOT ANY AND EVERYTHING ON THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES. Q: IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE AT THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE AGAIN, YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION? A: APPROXIMATELY ABOUT 2:00 O'CLOCK I THINK, 2:00 OR 3:00 O'CLOCK. Q: OKAY. SOMEWHERE ABOUT 2:00 O'CLOCK OR THERE AFTERWARDS? AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE, DID YOU FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS AND START TO SHOOT THE VIDEO? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HOW LONG WERE YOU THERE? IF YOU GOT THERE AROUND 2:00 O'CLOCK, HOW LONG WERE YOU THERE AT THE RESIDENCE? A: I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY AN HOUR AND A HALF. Q: SO IF YOU GOT THERE AT 2:00, YOU WOULD BE FINISHED SOMEWHERE AROUND 3:30, THEREABOUTS? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WERE YOU USING AN RCA CAMCORDER OF SOME KIND? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THE -- THE TAPE THAT YOU WERE SHOOTING, HOW LONG COULD YOU SHOOT WITHOUT CHANGING THE TAPE? A: I DIDN'T CHANGE TAPES AT ALL. Q: SO THE VIDEO THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE WAS SHOT ALL IN ONE TAPE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: AND YOU HAD OCCASION NOW TO SEE THAT TAPE SINCE YOU SHOT IT. HOW MUCH TAPE IS THERE? A: APPROXIMATELY 20 TO 30 MINUTES TAPE. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU GOT THIS 20 OR 30 MINUTES OF TAPE OVER A PERIOD OF ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, DID YOU START OFF BY SHOOTING OUTSIDE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SHOOT OUTSIDE? A: STARTED WITH THE BRONCO, PANNED OVER TO THE DRIVEWAY THAT'S ON THE ROCKINGHAM SIDE AND PROCEEDED TO PHOTOGRAPH THE CARS AND THE YARD, FRONT OF THE HOUSE. Q: WHAT ABOUT THE HOUSE? A: FRONT OF THE HOUSE. Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU GO ON THE OTHER SIDE, THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE? A: YES, SIR. NO. NOT THE SOUTH SIDE. IT WOULD BE THE NORTH SIDE. Q: THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE? A: FACING THE HOUSE WOULD BE THE NORTH SIDE. Q: DID DETECTIVE HARPER TELL YOU TO SHOOT BOTH THE NORTH AND SOUTH, AT EACH SIDE OF THE HOUSE? A: NO, SIR. Q: SO YOU SHOT THE NORTH SIDE? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU SHOOT ANY OTHER SIDE? A: NO, BECAUSE FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, WAS JUST THE -- THE HOUSE BUTTED UP AGAINST THE FENCE. Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU DIDN'T GO DOWN THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE? A: NO, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOBODY -- NO ONE ASKED YOU TO DO THAT? A: NO. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HOW LONG OF THIS 20 MINUTES DID YOU SPEND SHOOTING OUTSIDE? A: I WOULD ESTIMATE ABOUT 20 MINUTES. Q: NO. HOW LONG -- I THOUGHT THAT THE ENTIRE THING WAS 20 TO 30 MINUTES. SO 20 MINUTES OF THAT WAS OUTSIDE? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. A: THIS IS NOT CONTINUOUS RUNNING. Q: OKAY. YOU WOULD SHOOT, CUT OFF, GO TO SOME LOCATION; IS THAT WHAT -- A: ROGER. Q: OKAY, SIR. NOW, WHILE YOU WERE SHOOTING OUTSIDE, WERE YOU BEING DIRECTED WHAT TO SHOOT BY ONE OF THESE DETECTIVES WHO WERE THERE? A: IN THE BEGINNING, I WAS DIRECTED TO SHOOT, AND THEN I WAS BASICALLY LEFT ON MY OWN UNTIL I FINISHED COMPLETING ALL OF THE OUTSIDE, AND THEN I WOULD COME INSIDE AND GET FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS. Q: CAN YOU GIVE US THE NAME OF THE OFFICER WHO WAS DIRECTING YOU AT THE BEGINNING? A: IT WAS THE AFRICAN AMERICAN OFFICER. I DON'T KNOW WHICH NAME HE IS. Q: LET'S CALL HIM HARPER. A: HARPER? OKAY. Q: YES. ALL RIGHT. AND SO HE TOLD YOU WHAT TO SHOOT AND THEN HE LET YOU ON YOUR OWN; IS THAT RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: WAS MR. ADKINS ANYWHERE NEAR THERE AT THAT POINT? A: AT SOME POINTS. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO PRIOR SHOOTS, HAD YOU HAD OCCASION TO EVER SHOOT ANY OTHER CRIME SCENE BEFORE THIS DATE OF JUNE 13TH? A: YES, SIR. Q: WHEN WAS THAT IN RELATION TO JUNE 13TH? A: I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY THREE MONTHS EARLIER. Q: AND WAS THAT A TRAINING SESSION FOR YOU? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU'VE BEEN TRAINED AT THE EARLIER SITUATION; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU DID IT ON YOUR OWN? A: THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT IT WAS DONE BY THE REQUEST OF THE DETECTIVE. Q: OKAY. ON YOUR OWN. A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER YOU CONCLUDED SHOOTING THE EXTERIOR, YOU HAD OCCASION TO GO INSIDE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND ONCE INSIDE, WERE YOU DIRECTED WHAT TO SHOOT BY A PARTICULAR DETECTIVE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WAS THAT HARPER OR WAS THAT ANOTHER DETECTIVE? A: ANOTHER DETECTIVE. Q: WAS THE NAME HARO, H-A-R-O? A: I THINK SO. Q: AND WHAT DID MR. HARO, DETECTIVE HARO TELL YOU WITH REGARD TO WHAT YOU SHOULD SHOOT? A: TO PHOTOGRAPH EVERYTHING INSIDE OF THE HOUSE INCLUDING PICTURES ON THE WALL. Q: AND DID YOU TRY TO DO THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THAT TOOK UP THE BALANCE OF WHAT WE NOW SEE ON THE TAPE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU WOULD SHOOT AND THEN CUT OFF AND MOVE TO OTHER LOCATIONS; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: BUT DID YOU TRY TO RECOVER -- DID YOU TRY TO SHOOT EVERYTHING THAT APPEARED OUT IN THE OPEN? A: YES. Q: SO YOU WOULD HAVE A COMPLETE RECORD? A: YES. Q: OKAY. AND WHAT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHY YOU WERE DOING THIS? A: JUST IN CASE THERE WAS SOME ITEMS OF MR. SIMPSON'S THAT WAS VERY VALUABLE MISSING, LAPD WOULDN'T BE ACCUSED OF TAKING ANYTHING. Q: YOU WANTED TO MAKE A COMPLETE RECORD; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE OFFICERS THERE, THE DETECTIVES THERE WERE STILL SEARCHING AT THE TIME YOU WERE DOING THE SHOOTING? A: I'M AWARE THAT THEY WERE DOING SOME TYPE OF ONGOING INVESTIGATION. I WASN'T REALLY PAYING ATTENTION. Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU DON'T KNOW -- YOU DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY SEARCHING THROUGH DOORS WHILE YOU WERE THERE, DID YOU? A: NO. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DID YOUR SHOOT -- MR. COCHRAN: AND BY THE WAY, I WANT TO VERY BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR, IF I CAN, ASK TO SHOW MR. FORD A PORTION OF THE VIDEO AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME. THE COURT: YES. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: MR. FORD, LET ME SKIP AHEAD FOR A MOMENT. AFTER YOU FINISHED, CONCLUDED THIS VIDEO, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH IT NEXT? A: WE TOOK IT BACK TO THE PHOTO LAB AT PARKER CENTER. Q: AND WHEN YOU SAY "WE," YOU MEAN YOU AND MR. ADKINS? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH IT ON THAT DAY, JUNE 13? A: MR. ADKINS TOLD ME -- LOCKED IT UP IN THE CONFIDENTIAL FILE IN HIS OFFICE. Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO GIVE THAT VIDEOTAPE TO SOMEONE ON JUNE 14TH, 1994? A: YES. Q: AND WHO WAS THAT? A: I THINK IT WAS DETECTIVE HARO. Q: WAS IT HARO OR LUPER? A: I THINK IT WAS HARO. Q: THINK IT WAS HARO? THE MAN WHO GAVE YOU THE INSTRUCTIONS THE DAY BEFORE? A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHERE DID YOU GIVE IT TO HIM? WHERE DID YOU GIVE HIM THE TAPE? A: DOWN ON THE THIRD FLOOR PARKER CENTER, ROBBERY-HOMICIDE. Q: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT THE LAST TIME YOU SAW THAT TAPE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND BETWEEN JUNE 14TH, 1994 AND TODAY, HAD YOU EVER HAD PHYSICAL POSSESSION OF THAT TAPE FROM THAT TIME? A: NO, SIR. Q: YOU GAVE HIM ONE TAPE, ONE COPY? A: ONE COPY. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE THINGS THAT YOU WERE TO SHOOT INSIDE THE RESIDENCE -- MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO JUST SHOW HIM TWO BRIEF THINGS AND ASK HIM A QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, IF I MIGHT. (BRIEF PAUSE.) (AT 12:05 P.M., A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, CAN YOU SEE THE VIDEO THERE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THIS IS BEING SHOT BY YOU; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: BY THE WAY, THERE WAS -- WELL, I'LL GET TO A PARTICULAR POINT AND ASK YOU A QUESTION. NOW, RIGHT THERE, YOU SEE THAT? DID YOU SHOOT THAT GLOVE THERE BY A PICTURE OF A YOUNG LADY THERE? A: YES, SIR. Q: WAS THAT GLOVE PLACED THERE BEFORE YOU GOT THERE? A: I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS PLACED. IT WAS THERE. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU BACK IT UP? MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, FOR REFERENCE PURPOSES, CAN WE NOTE THAT THE TIME DISPLAYED ON THE VIDEO IS 2:50 WHERE THE GLOVE IS SEEN? THE COURT: YES. MR. COCHRAN: IT SAYS 2:50 P.M. 6-13-94. CAN WE STOP IT THERE? Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS THE WAY A GLOVE APPEARED THERE BY THE PHOTOGRAPH OF THE YOUNG LADY AT THE TIME YOU SHOT; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID ANYBODY TELL YOU TO SHOOT THAT? A: NO, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. THAT WAS JUST OUT THERE IN THAT CONDITION? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS RCA CAMERA THAT YOU HAD, IT HAD A VIEW FINDER WHICH YOU COULD LOOK AND SEE THE TIME THAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY SHOOTING; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THE DATE? A: EXACTLY. Q: SO YOU COULD LOOK AND YOU COULD SEE THAT IT WAS 2:50 P.M. AT -- ON JUNE 13TH; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GOING TO FAST FORWARD. (BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHEN YOU WERE SHOOTING THE GLOVE, WAS THE DETECTIVE WITH YOU AT THAT POINT? A: HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN. I DON'T KNOW. Q: DO YOU RECALL HIM SAYING ANYTHING TO YOU AS YOU WERE SHOOTING THAT GLOVE? A: NO. Q: YOU DON'T RECALL HIM SAYING KEY IN ON THE GLOVE AT ALL? YOU DON'T RECALL? A: NO. Q: ALL RIGHT. FIND THAT OTHER PORTION IN JUST A SECOND. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. COCHRAN: I'LL KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS WHILE HE'S DOING THAT TO SAVE TIME, YOUR HONOR, IF I MIGHT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, THIS -- YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US THAT THIS TAPE THAT YOU SHOT WAS GIVEN TO SOMEBODY AT ROBBERY-HOMICIDE ON THE THIRD FLOOR OF THE LAPD ON JUNE 14TH; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES. Q: AND THEN YOU -- YOU -- WHEN IS THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THIS VIDEOTAPE? A: THIS MORNING. Q: AND WHERE DID YOU SEE IT? A: AT ROBBERY-HOMICIDE. Q: BEFORE YOU CAME OVER TO COURT TODAY? A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHO ELSE WAS PRESENT WHILE YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE VIDEOTAPE? A: I THINK DETECTIVE HARO AND MY OIC, DAVID ADKINS, AND I DON'T REALLY RECALL ANYBODY ELSE. I WAS -- Q: AND THAT WAS ALL THIS MORNING AT WHAT TIME? A: APPROXIMATELY 7:30, 8:00 O'CLOCK. Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU ALSO SHOT -- YOU WENT UPSTAIRS IN THE INTERIOR OF THE RESIDENCE AND YOU SHOT PHOTOGRAPHS, A VIDEO OF THE BEDROOM OF MR. SIMPSON; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: AND IN DOING THAT, DID YOU MAKE AN EFFORT TO SHOOT EVERYTHING THAT WAS OUT THERE IN AND AROUND THAT BEDROOM AREA? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU SHOT WHAT WAS ON THE BED, RIGHT? A: YES. Q: SHOT WHAT WAS ON THE FLOOR, IF ANYTHING? A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO YOU TRIED TO GIVE A COMPLETE RECORD AGAIN OF SHOOTING ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO I WANT TO SHOW YOU SOME VIDEO IF I CAN. (BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS -- THIS IS -- THIS IS THE BEDROOM AREA; IS THAT CORRECT? DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES. Q: AS BEST YOU CAN RECALL, YOU WERE SHOOTING AT 3:13 P.M. ON JUNE 13TH IN THE BEDROOM, RIGHT? A: OH, I UNDERSTAND THE TIME IS OFF ABOUT AN HOUR. Q: I'M ASKING YOU WHAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING WAS AT THAT TIME. 3:13 P.M.? A: I PAID NO ATTENTION TO THE TIME. I WAS TOO BUSY CONCENTRATING ON GETTING THE IMAGES. Q: BUT YOU SEE THE TIME, 3:13 P.M.? A: OH, YES, SIR. Q: YOU SEE THAT TIME? NOW, YOU SHOT WHAT WAS ON THE BED THERE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: THESE WERE -- THESE THINGS WERE OUT IN FASHION WE SEE THEM THERE IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH THERE, 3:14 P.M.? A: YES. Q: YOU WENT INSIDE HIS CLOSET AND SHOT THERE ALSO, RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: SHOOT ANY LUGGAGE IN THAT PARTICULAR CLOSET THAT YOU RECALL? A: IN VIEWING THE TAPE THIS MORNING, I THINK I DID SEE SOME LUGGAGE. Q: THOSE WEAPONS THERE, WERE THEY TAKEN OUT -- WERE THEY IN THAT CONDITION OUT THERE LIKE THAT WHEN YOU GOT THERE? A: EVERYTHING I VIDEOTAPED WAS OUT ALREADY. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO MOVED IT OUT THERE? A: NO, SIR. Q: WAS HARO STILL WITH YOU AT THIS POINT OR ONE OF THE DETECTIVES WITH YOU AT THIS POINT? A: NO. I'M BY MYSELF AT THIS POINT. Q: YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN? A: YES, SIR. Q: SHOOTING ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING? A: YES. Q: I THINK I SAW YOU IN THE MIRROR THERE. DID YOU SEE YOURSELF? MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: I MISSED THAT ONE. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET ME BACK UP JUST A MOMENT. WITH REGARD TO THE -- IN THE BEDROOM AREA, DID YOU SEE A RUG OF SOME KIND IN THE BEDROOM AREA BEFORE THE FIREPLACE THERE THAT DAY? A: OKAY. YOU TALKING ABOUT THAT FIREPLACE TO THE RIGHT THERE? Q: NO. NO. I'M GOING TO -- I'LL POINT IT OUT TO YOU, SIR. MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, EXCUSE ME. I OBJECT TO ANY FURTHER QUESTIONING ALONG THESE LINES. THE COURT -- MR. COCHRAN ASKED LEAVE OF THE COURT TO ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE VIDEOTAPE. THIS APPEARS TO BE A FISHING EXPEDITION BY MR. COCHRAN WITH THIS WITNESS ON THE STAND. THERE'S NO NEED TO TAKE UP THIS COURT'S VALUABLE TIME WITH THIS TYPE OF QUESTIONING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. COCHRAN: KEEP GOING. I WANT TO STOP THERE. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU SEE -- MR. COCHRAN: OH, BOY. BACK UP A FRAME OR TWO. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: 3:13. DO YOU SEE THAT CAR -- BACK IT UP. SEE THAT CARPET THERE AT 3:13 P.M. AT THE FOOT OF THE BED? CAN YOU SEE THAT? A: YES. Q: DID YOU TAKE A PHOTOGRAPH OF THAT CARPET THAT DAY? A: JUST -- JUST WHAT YOU SEE THERE. Q: AND -- SO JUST WHAT WE SEE THERE IS WHAT YOU SAW; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING UNUSUAL AT THAT POINT, DID YOU? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND YOU TRIED TO CAPTURE EVERYTHING THAT WAS OUT THERE THAT WAS ANYTHING, RIGHT? A: EXACTLY. Q: AND SO WHAT WE SEE HERE WITH REGARD TO THE CARPET -- I'LL BACK IT, LET YOU SEE IT -- IS WHAT YOU SAW THAT DAY; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. BACK IT UP AND MOVE FORWARD. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, IN PRESENTING THIS TO ME, BEAR IN MIND I'VE SEEN THIS THING COMPLETELY END TO END FIVE TIMES. MR. COCHRAN: FIVE TIMES NOW, YOUR HONOR? OKAY. WELL, I WILL BEAR THAT IN MIND AND MOVE RIGHT AHEAD. I JUST WANT TO CONCLUDE AT THIS POINT. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: I KNOW YOU'RE A QUICK STUDY, SO NO PROBLEM. ALL RIGHT. MOVE FORWARD. MOVE FORWARD. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: SO YOU PICK UP EVERYTHING THAT YOU SEE THERE ON THE CARPET AT THAT TIME; IS THAT RIGHT, SIR? A: YES. Q: YOU TRIED TO SHOW EVERYTHING, ALL RIGHT; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MR. HARRIS. (AT 12:20 P.M., THE PLAYING OF THE VIDEOTAPE WAS CONCLUDED.) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, YOU STARTED TO SAY SOMETHING AND -- WITH REGARD TO THE TIME. WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYONE TOLD YOU THAT THE TIME OF THE TAPE MIGHT BE OFF? WAS THAT TODAY? A: NO. THAT WAS I THINK ABOUT TWO DAYS AGO. Q: OKAY. WHO TOLD YOU THAT? A: MY OIC, DAVID ADKINS. Q: DAVID ADKINS? AND YOU HADN'T SEEN THE TAPE AT THAT POINT, HAD YOU? A: NO, SIR. Q: SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, HOWEVER, YOU GOT THE CALL ABOUT 1:30 AND GOT OUT THERE SOMETIME AROUND 2:00 O'CLOCK; IS THAT RIGHT? MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU GOT OUT THERE AT WHAT TIME? A: ACCORDING TO THE SIGN-IN LOG, IT WAS AROUND -- A LITTLE BIT AFTER 3:00. Q: WELL, DID YOU SAY EARLIER YOU GOT THERE BETWEEN 2:00 AND 3:00, SIR? A: YOU ASKED ME WHAT TIME DID I THOUGHT THAT I GOT THERE. Q: YES. A: THAT'S THE TIME I THOUGHT I GOT THERE. Q: BETWEEN 2:00 AND 3:00, RIGHT? A: YEAH. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN YOU THEN PROCEEDED TO SHOOT FOR AN HOUR AND A HALF AT MOST; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO THAT WOULD COMPORT WITH THE TIMES YOU SAW IN THAT VIDEO, IS THAT CORRECT, THAT YOU WERE SHOOTING SOMETIME AFTER 3:00 O'CLOCK? ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: YES. MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION. COMPOUND AND VAGUE AS TO WHICH TIMES ARE THESE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: COMPORTS WITH THE TIMES YOU SAW, RIGHT? A: YES. Q: YOU NEVER TRIED TO CHANGE THE TIME THAT PARTICULAR DAY, DID YOU? A: NO, SIR. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER OF THIS WITNESS, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: MISS LEWIS. MS. LEWIS: JUST BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. LEWIS: Q: MR. FORD, WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT ANYONE ASKED YOU ABOUT WHAT WAS RECORDED OR WHY YOU RECORDED THAT VIDEOTAPE ON THAT OCCASION? A: ABOUT TWO DAYS AGO. Q: SO IT'S BEEN SOME EIGHT MONTHS, EIGHT AND A HALF MONTHS NOW SINCE YOU'VE HAD OCCASION TO EVEN THINK ABOUT HAVING TAKEN THAT VIDEOTAPE BACK LAST JUNE? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND YOUR ESTIMATION OF THE TIME THAT YOU TOOK -- THE COURT: LET'S HAVE IT QUIET IN THE COURTROOM, PLEASE. Q: BY MS. LEWIS: YOUR ESTIMATION OF THE TIME THAT YOU ARRIVED AND THAT YOU TOOK PARTICULAR THINGS SHOWN ON THE VIDEOTAPE IS JUST BASED ON YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION NOW EIGHT, EIGHT AND A HALF MONTHS LATER; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND YOU INDICATED YOU DID NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE TIME ON THE CAMERA ITSELF; IS THAT RIGHT? A: EXACTLY. Q: SO YOU REALLY CAN'T SAY WITH CERTAINTY ANY TIME THAT YOU TOOK ANY PARTICULAR ASPECTS SHOWN ON THAT VIDEOTAPE, CAN YOU? A: NO. MS. LEWIS: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: JUST ONE THING, YOUR HONOR. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: THIS -- WITH REGARD TO THE TIME ASPECT, SIR, YOU WERE AWARE THAT THIS WAS AN IMPORTANT VIDEO TO DOCUMENT WHAT WAS GOING ON; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: AND YOU WERE DOING THE BEST YOU COULD; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: TO SHOOT ANY AND EVERYTHING, RIGHT? A: YES. Q: AND IF YOU HAD SEEN OR WERE AWARE THAT THE TIME WAS OFF, YOU WOULD HAVE -- YOU COULD HAVE CHANGED THAT OR CORRECTED THAT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: I WOULD SAY YES IF IT WAS OF SOME CONCERN, YES. Q: YES. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. DETECTIVE LUPER, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: MISS LEWIS, ANYTHING MORE? MS. LEWIS: MAY I HAVE JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF CROSS, MY INITIAL CROSS JUST BRIEFLY? THE COURT: BRIEFLY. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. LEWIS: Q: DID ANY DETECTIVE OR ANYONE ELSE DIRECT YOU TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OR VIDEOTAPES I SHOULD SAY OF BLOOD DROPS IN THE DRIVEWAY AT ROCKINGHAM? A: NO. Q: DID ANYONE ASK YOU TO TAKE -- TO VIDEO THE PATHWAY THAT THE -- THAT RUNS BETWEEN WHERE THE HOUSE BUTTS UP AGAINST THE FENCE ON THE SOUTH SIDE? A: NO. Q: DID ANYONE INDICATE TO YOU THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE USED BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS IN THE CASE? A: NO. Q: AND WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT TAKEN -- THIS WAS TAKEN TO DOCUMENT THE VALUABLE ITEMS THAT YOU SAW THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE -- MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THAT QUESTION AS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE. THE COURT: IT'S CROSS-EXAMINATION. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, THAT IS -- THE COURT: I WILL ALLOW THE QUESTION. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MS. LEWIS: AND WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT YOUR PURPOSE IN TAKING THIS VIDEOTAPE WAS TO DOCUMENT THE VALUABLE ITEMS THAT YOU SAW THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE INCLUDING THE HEISMAN TROPHY AND OTHER ITEMS OF VALUE SO THAT THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD HAVE THAT ON RECORD AS HAVING EXISTED THEN IN CASE OF A LATER LAWSUIT? A: YES. Q: WAS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING? MR. COCHRAN: SHE IS TESTIFYING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. LEWIS: WAS THAT YOUR UNDERSTANDING, SIR? A: YES. MS. LEWIS: THANK YOU. FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: AND WHEN YOU TOOK THAT PICTURE OF THAT GLOVE THERE, YOU THOUGHT THAT WAS A VALUABLE OBJECT DID YOU? THE COURT: COUNSEL, I SAW WHAT WAS ON THE TABLE THERE. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, YOU KNOW, I -- ALL RIGHT. VERY WELL. THE COURT: LOOKED LIKE A TIFFANY STYLE LAMP AND A -- MR. COCHRAN: HE ZOOMED ON THE GLOVE HOWEVER. FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. LEWIS: Q: JUST FOR THE RECORD, DID YOU NOTICE THAT THERE WERE VALUABLE ITEMS ON THAT TABLE LIKE A LAMP OR SO FORTH -- A: YES. Q: -- IN ADDITION TO THE GLOVE? THE COURT: MISS LEWIS, YOU SHOULD ALSO BEAR IN MIND THAT I'VE SEEN THIS FIVE TIMES. MS. LEWIS: JUST FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU. MR. COCHRAN: ONE LAST QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: DID YOU SHOOT SOME REPORTED BLOOD DROPS IN THE FOYER AREA OF THE RESIDENCE? A: YES. Q: SOMEBODY TOLD YOU TO DO THAT? A: NO. Q: YOU JUST DID IT ON YOUR OWN? A: YES. Q: AGAIN, SHOOTING EVERYTHING YOU SAW, RIGHT? A: YES. Q: OKAY. AND YOU -- WITH REGARD TO THE PURPOSE -- YOUR PURPOSE FOR BEING THERE, YOU WERE TOLD YOUR PURPOSE WAS TO SHOOT ANY AND EVERYTHING AT THE DIRECTION OF THE DETECTIVES WHO TOLD YOU TO DO THIS, RIGHT? A: RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, SIR. LUPER, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE LUPER. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ADALBERTO LUPER (402), CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE DEFENDANT, PURSUANT TO EVIDENCE CODE SECTION 402, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: THE CLERK: YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? THE WITNESS: I DO. THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD. THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM. MY NAME IS ADALBERTO LUPER, FIRST NAME IS SPELLED A-D-A-L-B-E-R-T-O, LAST NAME IS L-U-P-E-R. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE -- GOOD AFTERNOON NOW, DETECTIVE LUPER. A: GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR. Q: YOU WERE ONE OF THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ASSIGNED TO THIS CASE; ARE YOU NOT? MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION. VAGUE AS TO INVESTIGATING OFFICER. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND THEN IN THAT CONNECTION, BACK IN JUNE, ON OR ABOUT JUNE 13TH, 1994, WERE YOU ONE OF THE OFFICERS OR DETECTIVES FROM ROBBERY-HOMICIDE ASSIGNED TO THE SIMPSON CASE? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU AT SOME POINT ON OR ABOUT JUNE 14TH RECEIVE A VIDEOTAPE THAT WAS SHOT OF THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE, SIR? A: YES, I DID. Q: WHAT TIME ON THE 14TH DID YOU RECEIVE SUCH A TAPE? A: IT WAS IN THE MORNING SOMETIME. I DON'T RECALL THE SPECIFIC TIME. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, AT SOME POINT, I SHOULD MARK THIS TAPE. IT'S OVER THERE NOW. SO WE'LL RESERVE A NUMBER SO I DON'T FORGET TO MARK IT, AND AS DEFENDANT'S -- THE COURT: 1068. MR. COCHRAN: DEFENDANT'S 1068. (DEFT'S 1068 FOR ID = VIDEOTAPE) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU'VE RECEIVED -- AND YOU'VE SEEN THE TAPE THIS MORNING; HAVE YOU NOT? A: YES, SIR, I HAVE. Q: OKAY. IT'S ABOUT A 20-, 30-MINUTE TAPE, DEFENDANT'S 1068. YOU RECEIVED -- MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION. COUNSEL IS TESTIFYING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. PROCEED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU RECEIVED THIS TAPE SOMETIME ON THE 14TH, EARLY MORNING HOURS? A: THAT'S CORRECT. IT WAS IN THE MORNING, YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT WHAT TIME IT WAS? A: IT WOULD HAVE TO BE ANYWHERE BETWEEN 8:00 AND 10:00, SOMEWHERE IN THAT. Q: ALL RIGHT. FROM WHOM DID YOU RECEIVE THIS TAPE? A: I RECEIVED IT FROM I BELIEVE IT WAS DETECTIVE HARO. Q: FROM HARO? A: YEAH. Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU RECEIVED THE TAPE FROM HARO? A: I WAS AT -- AT PARKER CENTER, ROOM 321 AT MY DESK. Q: AND WHEN YOU RECEIVED IT IN ROOM 321 AT PARKER CENTER ON JUNE 14TH IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OR BETWEEN 8:00 AND 10:00, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE TAPE AT THAT POINT? A: I WENT UPSTAIRS TO -- TO ELECTRONIC SECTION AND ASKED TO BE ABLE TO USE THEIR VCR MONITOR TO VIEW THE TAPE. Q: AND DID YOU VIEW THE TAPE AT THAT POINT? A: YES, SIR, I DID. Q: SO YOU SAW IT ON THE 14TH? A: YES, SIR. Q: IT'S THE SAME TAPE WE NOW HAVE HERE TODAY? A: THAT'S CORRECT. YES, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU VIEW IT BY YOURSELF OR WITH SOMEONE ELSE? A: BY MYSELF. Q: ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU VIEWED THE TAPE, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH IT AT THAT POINT? A: I RETURNED DOWN TO MY OFFICE, AS I WAS CHARGED WITH HAVING TO WRITE THE EMPLOYEE REPORT OF THE SEARCH WARRANT, AND I WAS INFORMED THAT IT WASN'T NECESSARY BECAUSE THE CAPTAIN HAD BEEN THERE AND THE EMPLOYEE REPORT WOULD HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED TO HIM. Q: IS THAT CAPTAIN GARTLAND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND SO YOU DID NOT WRITE AN EMPLOYEE REPORT ABOUT THIS ITEM? A: THAT'S CORRECT, SIR. I DID NOT. Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU THEN TOOK -- YOU HAD POSSESSION OF THE TAPE, DEFENDANT'S 1068. YOU HAD SEEN IT BY NOW. DID YOU WRITE ANY REPORTS AT ALL AT THAT POINT? A: NO, SIR. Q: YOU THEN DID SOMETHING WITH THAT TAPE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT? A: I PUT IT IN MY DESK DRAWER. Q: OKAY. NOW, AT THIS POINT -- THIS WAS YOUR REGULAR DESK DRAWER? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. NOW, DID YOU EVER TAKE THAT TAPE UP OR PUT IT IN THE SO-CALLED SIMPSON WAR ROOM AT PARKER CENTER? A: YES, SIR. Q: WHEN WAS THAT? A: THAT WAS PROBABLY THREE, FOUR MONTHS LATER. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU -- AT FIRST, YOU PUT IT IN YOUR DESK; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND ABOUT HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY IT STAYED IN YOUR DESK? A: ABOUT THREE OR FOUR MONTHS. Q: AND THEN YOU HAD OCCASION -- THERE WAS A SIMPSON WAR ROOM DEVELOPED AND THEN -- THAT'S ALSO AT PARKER CENTER? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THEN YOU HAD OCCASION TO MOVE IT FROM YOUR DESK? A: YES, SIR. Q: WHEN WAS THAT APPROXIMATELY? A: WELL, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN AROUND THE SAME TIME, THREE OR FOUR MONTHS AFTER THE VIDEO WAS TAKEN ALONG WITH SEVERAL BOOKS THAT I HAD. Q: SO THAT WOULD BE JULY -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. WOULD BE ABOUT SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER? A: YEAH. ROUGHLY SEPTEMBER, OCTOBER, YES, SIR. Q: AGAIN, DO YOU HAVE ANY REPORTS ABOUT THE TIME IT WAS MOVED FROM YOUR DESK TO THE WAR ROOM AREA? A: NO, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT IT REMAINED IN POLICE CUSTODY AT THAT POINT ALSO? A: YES, SIR. IT WAS LOCKED UP IN A FILE CABINET. Q: AND DID -- BY THAT -- BY THAT TIME, WHEN IT WAS MOVED TO THE LOCATION OF THE WAR ROOM, THE PRELIMINARY HEARING HAD TAKEN PLACE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND BY THAT TIME, IF YOU RECALL, HAD WE STARTED PICKING THE JURY IN THIS CASE? A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. IF IT WAS IN OCTOBER, YOU WERE AWARE OF THE PROCEEDINGS THAT TOOK PLACE HERE. WERE YOU -- A: I'M AWARE OF THE PROCEEDINGS, YES, SIR, BUT AS TO THE CHRONOLOGY, NO, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WAS DURING PRETRIAL OR WE HAD STARTED PICKING A JURY AT THAT POINT? A: THAT'S CORRECT, SIR. Q: BUT YOU CAN TELL US WITHIN THREE OR FOUR MONTHS OF THE TIME YOU FIRST RECEIVED IT ON JUNE 14TH AFTER IT WAS IN YOUR DESK, IT WAS THEN MOVED TO A FILE CABINET IN THE WAR ROOM AT PARKER CENTER; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES, SIR. Q: NOW, AT SOME POINT, YOU HAD OCCASION TO TELL SOMEONE YOU HAD THIS TAPE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DID THAT COINCIDE WITH SOME TESTIMONY OF DETECTIVE LANGE WITH REGARD TO THE LOCATION OF OBJECTS INSIDE THE SIMPSON GARAGE THERE AT ROCKINGHAM? MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION. VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY TESTIMONY. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU JUST REMEMBER THAT YOU HAD THIS TAPE AT SOME POINT? A: I WAS -- IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THAT IT WAS POSSIBLE THAT I WAS GOING TO TESTIFY TO THE EXECUTION OF THE SEARCH WARRANT. Q: ALL RIGHT. A: AND DURING MY RESEARCH OF THAT, PHOTOGRAPHS, ET CETERA, I REMEMBERED THAT WE DID HAVE A VIDEOTAPE. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS VIDEO, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF OFFICERS OUT THERE ON THE DATE THAT VIDEO WAS SHOT; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THERE WERE SEVERAL PATROL OFFICERS. I BELIEVE THERE WAS MAYBE SEVEN DETECTIVES, FOUR FROM ROBBERY-HOMICIDE, THREE FROM WEST L.A. AND I BELIEVE MR. FUNG AND MISS MAZZOLA AND I THINK THE PRINT PEOPLE HAD ALREADY LEFT. Q: JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR, WERE YOU -- YOU WERE THERE, RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS VIDEO WAS SHOT DURING THE EXECUTION OF THE SEARCH WARRANT OR HAD ALL ITEMS BEEN RECOVERED BY THAT TIME? A: ALL THE ITEMS WITHIN THE RESIDENCE HAD BEEN RECOVERED AT THAT TIME. I KNEW THAT THERE WAS SOME PRESUMPTIVE TESTS THAT WE WERE STILL DOING, BUT AS FAR AS I WAS CONCERNED, ALL THE EVIDENCE HAD BEEN RECOVERED, YES, SIR. Q: ALL BEEN RECOVERED EXCEPT FOR MAYBE SOME PRESUMPTIVE TESTS, RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND JUST QUICKLY FOR US, CAN YOU GIVE US THE NAMES OF THE DETECTIVES FROM ROBBERY-HOMICIDE WHO WERE PRESENT DURING THE TAKING OF THIS -- SHOOTING OF THIS VIDEO? A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DETECTIVE HARO, H-A-R-O, DETECTIVE HARPER, H-A-R-P-E-R, MY PARTNER, DETECTIVE LE FALL, L-E F-A-L-L, MYSELF AND POSSIBLY DETECTIVE ROBERTS, AND THAT'S THE ONLY ONES THAT COME TO MIND RIGHT NOW, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING WEST L.A. ANYBODY FROM WEST L.A. YOU RECALL? A: THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN DETECTIVE ROBERTS FROM WEST L.A. I WOULD HAVE TO CHECK THE CRIME SCENE LOG TO BE SURE. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AT SOME POINT, YOU WERE TOLD THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO TESTIFY IN CONNECTION WITH THE SEARCH WARRANT? A: THAT'S RIGHT. Q: IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE HERE? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU DIDN'T TESTIFY IN ANY OF THE PRETRIAL MOTIONS, DID YOU? A: NO, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN WERE YOU TOLD THAT AND BY WHOM? A: I WAS TOLD THAT THE LAST WEEK OF FEBRUARY OF THIS YEAR, AND I BELIEVE IT WAS DETECTIVE VANNATTER WHO INFORMED ME OF THAT. Q: SO IN FEBRUARY, VANNATTER TOLD YOU YOU MIGHT HAVE TO TESTIFY IN CONNECTION WITH THE SEARCH WARRANT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. YES, SIR. Q: AND THEN YOU STARTED LOOKING AT PHOTOGRAPHS AND VIDEOS AND YOU DISCOVERED THIS TAPE, RIGHT? A: I -- LOOKING AT PHOTOS, YES. NO VIDEO, BUT I DO -- I REALIZED WE HAD A VIDEO AT THAT TIME, YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN DID YOU BRING THE FACT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THAT YOU HAD THIS VIDEO? A: THAT WAS EITHER MARCH 22ND OR MARCH 23RD OF THIS YEAR, SIR. Q: SO EVEN THOUGH YOU KNEW -- YOU DISCOVERED IT YOURSELF BACK IN FEBRUARY? A: NO. I BELIEVE IT WAS PROBABLY A WEEK OR TWO AFTER THAT THAT THAT I DISCOVERED IT. Q: SO MAYBE THE FIRST PART OF MARCH? A: YEAH. WITHIN THE FIRST TWO WEEKS OF MARCH, YES, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU FIRST -- YOU TOLD THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ABOUT THIS OR SOME REPRESENTATIVE ON OR ABOUT MARCH 22ND? A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES, SIR. Q: WHO WAS TOLD? A: DETECTIVE TOM LANGE WAS TOLD, AT WHICH TIME WE MADE A NOTIFICATION TO THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, AND THEN THERE WAS -- THEN SUBSEQUENTLY TURNED OVER TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. Q: WHO IN THE CITY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE DID YOU TALK TO? A: I DON'T RECALL THE NAME, SIR. I DIDN'T MAKE THE CALL. Q: THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE FIRST WEEK OR SO OF MARCH? A: NO. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ON MARCH 22ND OR THE 23RD. Q: BUT WHEN YOU FIRST DISCOVERED IT DURING THE FIRST WEEK OF MARCH, WHO IN THE ROBBERY-HOMICIDE DIVISION DID YOU TALK TO ABOUT THIS? A: NOBODY. Q: YOU DIDN'T TELL ANYBODY AT FIRST? A: NO. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU TOLD SOMEBODY IN ROBBERY-HOMICIDE? A: IT WAS EITHER -- IT WOULD HAVE HAD TO EITHER BE MARCH 22ND OR THE 23RD BECAUSE THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT IT WAS BROUGHT UP BY MYSELF. Q: AND WHO DID YOU TELL AT THAT POINT? A: DETECTIVE LANGE. Q: SO ANY PARTICULAR REASON YOU DIDN'T TELL ANYBODY BETWEEN THE TIME YOU DISCOVERED IT THE FIRST WEEK OF MARCH AND MARCH 22ND, 23RD? A: NO PARTICULAR REASON OTHER THAN I DIDN'T AT THAT TIME FEEL THAT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY NEEDED TO KNOW BECAUSE OF THE REASONS IT WAS BEING HELD INITIALLY. Q: I SEE. AND WHAT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING FOR WHY THIS TAPE WAS SHOT ORIGINALLY? A: IT WAS SHOT STRICTLY FOR ADMINISTRATIVE PURPOSES, TO RECORD THE VALUABLE ITEMS AT MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE AND TO PREVENT ANY CIVIL LIABILITY THAT MIGHT ARISE IN THE FUTURE. Q: WAS THERE A CITY ATTORNEY ON THE PREMISES ON THE DAY THAT IT WAS SHOT? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND DO YOU -- WHEN YOU SAW THAT TAPE, YOU SAW HOWEVER -- STRIKE THAT. WERE YOU AWARE THAT THE MAN WHO SHOT THE TAPE HAD RECEIVED INSTRUCTIONS TO SHOOT EVERY AND ANYTHING INSIDE THE RESIDENCE AND MOST OF THE EXTERIOR? WERE YOU AWARE OF THAT? A: MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE THAT HE WAS TO FILM THE VALUABLES IN THE RESIDENCE AND TO DO A CURSORY FILMING OF THE EXTERIOR, YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU -- IN WATCHING THE TAPE, DID YOU SEE THE GLOVE ON THE TABLE THAT WAS ZOOMED IN ON? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU DIDN'T CONSIDER THAT ONE OF THE VALUABLES, DID YOU? A: NO. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN, WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO BREAK HERE. MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH JUST A SECOND? THE COURT: WELL, WHAT I ANTICIPATE DOING AT THIS POINT IS BREAKING HERE. I HAVE A 1:30 CALENDAR. I HAVE A WHITE COLLAR SENTENCING HEARING WITH FOUR DEFENDANTS AT 1:30. SO I ANTICIPATE RECESSING THIS NOW AND RECONVENING AT 8:30 ON MONDAY. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THAT'S FINE. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE LUPER, I'M GOING TO ORDER YOU TO RETURN MONDAY MORNING, 8:30. DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE LAWYERS ON EACH SIDE. THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SEE YOU MONDAY MORNING. ALL RIGHT. WHO IS THE OTHER WITNESS, MR. COCHRAN? MR. COCHRAN, WHO IS THE NEXT WITNESS? MR. COCHRAN: DETECTIVE HARPER, YOUR HONOR. HE WILL BE THE LAST ONE. THE COURT: HARPER? MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, MAY I INQUIRE THE RELEVANCE OF DETECTIVE HARPER? HE ALSO WAS THERE. OTHER DETECTIVES WERE THERE. THE COURT: HE'S ONE OF THE INDIVIDUALS WHO WAS THERE APPARENTLY GIVING INSTRUCTIONS AS TO WHAT TO DO, WAS THERE FOR THE SERVICE OF THE SEARCH WARRANT. I ASSUME THERE'S SOMETHING THERE. MS. LEWIS: I DON'T SHARE YOUR HONOR'S FAITH IN MAKING THAT ASSUMPTION. THE COURT: WELL, JUST HAVE DETECTIVE HARPER HERE. ALL RIGHT. AS TO THIS CASE, WE ARE IN RECESS UNTIL 8:30 A.M. MONDAY. WE WILL RECONVENE COURT AT 1:30 ON THE SENTENCING MATTERS. (AT 12:35 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN UNTIL, MONDAY, APRIL 3RD, 1995, 8:30 A.M.) SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, ) REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
FRIDAY, MARCH 31, 1995 PAGES 21154 THROUGH 21307, INCLUSIVE
;
JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR #4588 APPEARANCES:
FOR THE PEOPLE: GIL GARCETTI, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT L. SHAPIRO, ESQUIRE
JOHNNIE L. COCHRAN, JR., ESQUIRE
GERALD F. UELMEN, ESQUIRE ALSO PRESENT: MAYA HAMBURGER, ESQUIRE I N D E X INDEX FOR VOLUME 118 PAGES 21154 - 21307 ----------------------------------------------------- DAY DATE SESSION PAGE VOL. FRIDAY MARCH 31, 1995 A.M. 21154 118 ----------------------------------------------------- PROCEEDINGS
MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENA RE 21668 118 LEGEND:
MS. CLARK - MC CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
PEOPLE'S CALE, CHARLES 21173D 21191S 21229D 21232S 118 -----------------------------------------------------
DEFENSE (402) ADKINS, DAVID 21243C 21259L 21262C 118
FORD, WILLIE 21265C 21287L 21288C 21289L 118 JR.
LUPER, 21293C 118 ALPHABETICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL. ADKINS, DAVID 21243C 21259L 21262C 118 CALE, CHARLES 21173D 21191S 21229D 21232S 118
FORD, WILLIE 21265C 21287L 21288C 21289L 118 JR.
LUPER, 21293C 118 EXHIBITS
PEOPLE'S FOR IN EXHIBIT
157 - AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH 21182 118
157-A - PHOTOGRAPH OF 21223 118 -----------------------------------------------------
DEFENSE FOR IN EXHIBIT
1067 - AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH 21242 118
1068 - VIDEOTAPE TAKEN 21294 118 ??
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