DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(PAGES 20410 THROUGH 20424, VOLUME 115A, TRANSCRIBED AND SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. THE DEFENDANT IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. BAILEY, MR. DOUGLAS. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. COUNSEL, IS THERE ANYTHING WE NEED TO DISCUSSION BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURY?

MR. DOUGLAS: YES, YOUR HONOR, I HAVE ONE MATTER.

THE COURT: GOOD MORNING.

MR. DOUGLAS: WHEN WE VISITED THE ISSUE OF THE PITCHESS MOTION, THE AMENDED PITCHESS MOTION ON DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN, THE REQUEST INCLUDED NOT ONLY STATEMENTS, BUT WHETHER THERE WERE ANY AUDIO CASSETTES, VIDEO CASSETTE RECORDINGS, ET CETERA, OF ANY STATEMENTS THAT MIGHT BE RELEVANT TO ANY OF THE ISSUES THAT THE COURT DID FIND VALUE IN HOLDING AN IN CAMERA HEARING. I HAVE HAD AN OCCASION, YOUR HONOR, AND MY STAFF AS WELL, TO REVIEW A REDACTED DOCUMENT THAT INCLUDED WITNESS STATEMENTS FROM DIFFERENT DISTRICT ATTORNEY NOTES AND IT NOTED IN THAT STATEMENT THAT THE INTERVIEWS WITH THOSE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS WERE IN FACT TAPE-RECORDED. I ASK, YOUR HONOR, THAT WE BE ALLOWED TO RECEIVE AND TO REVIEW COPIES OF THE TAPE-RECORDINGS THAT ARE REFERENCED IN THIS DOCUMENT. IF THE COURT PRELIMINARILY WISHES TO FIRST HAVE THE TAPE-RECORDINGS REDACTED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THAT WHICH WAS TURNED OVER, WE WOULD HAVE NO OBJECTION; HOWEVER, WE DO THINK THAT WE ARE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE ALSO COPIES OF THE AUDIO CASSETTE TAPES AND I WOULD LIKE TO OBVIATE THE FILING OF A NEW MOTION SIMPLY ASKING FOR THAT AND THAT IS WHY I BRING IT TO THE COURT'S ATTENTION IN THIS FASHION.

THE COURT: LET ME DIRECT THE CLERK TO CONTACT MR. WALSH AND ASK HIM TO MAKE THOSE AVAILABLE. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, BEFORE WE DO THAT, CAN WE HAVE MR. WALSH COME OVER AND INDICATE ON THE RECORD THERE IS AN INTERNAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATION? THERE ARE CERTAIN PRIVACY RIGHTS THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WOULD HAVE.

THE COURT: THESE ARE TAPE-RECORDINGS OF STATEMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN DISCLOSED TO BOTH SIDES.

MS. CLARK: WE DON'T HAVE THEM.

MS. LEWIS: WE DON'T HAVE THEM.

MS. CLARK: WE DON'T HAVE THEM.

THE COURT: YOU HAVE THE STATEMENTS.

MS. CLARK: NO, I DO NOT. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM.

THE COURT: NO. YOU HAVE ALL RECEIVED -- BOTH SIDES HAVE RECEIVED DOCUMENTS OF THESE.

MS. CLARK: WE HAVE -- NEVER HAVE -- I HAVE NEVER RECEIVED THEM, YOUR HONOR, AND I DID ASK ABOUT THEM.

THE COURT: BOTH SIDES WERE PROVIDED COPIES, COUNSEL, ALSO WITH THE ORDER THAT THEY NOT BE PHOTOCOPIED.

MS. CLARK: I THINK THAT MAY BE PART OF THE PROBLEM. I HAVE IN MY POSSESSION SOME LITTLE NOTES. THEY ARE NOT FULL STATEMENTS, HOWEVER.

THE COURT: NO, THEY ARE NOT.

MS. CLARK: OH, OKAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE THE GIST OF WHAT IS THERE CONCERNING DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

MS. CLARK: I THINK THAT THE QUESTION IS WHETHER A TAPE-RECORDING MADE BY IA IS DISCOVERABLE. WE DON'T HAVE THAT TAPE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE WILL ALSO ASK MR. WALSH IF IT IS AVAILABLE. IF THEY WANT TO CONTEST IT, WE WILL OBVIOUSLY HAVE A THIRD PITCHESS HEARING.

MR. DOUGLAS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

BRIAN KATO KAELIN, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: MR. BRIAN KAELIN IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDERGOING RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. SHAPIRO. GOOD MORNING, MR. KAELIN. YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH, SIR.

THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING. YES, SIR.

THE COURT: AND MR. SHAPIRO.

MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THE COURT: I THINK MR. KAELIN HAS A FULL CUP ALREADY.

THE WITNESS: THANKS.

THE COURT: TWO.

THE WITNESS: GOSH, THANKS.

MR. SHAPIRO: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Q: GOOD MORNING, MR. KAELIN.

A: GOOD MORNING.

Q: I WANT TO JUST TAKE A FEW MOMENTS TO BRIEFLY REVIEW THE YEAR FROM MAY TO MAY OF '93 TO '94 AND TO GO OVER WITH YOU THE TIME THAT MR. SIMPSON SPENT WITH NICOLE AND HIS CHILDREN. ARE YOU AWARE DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME THAT ON THREE OCCASIONS THE FAMILY TRAVELED TOGETHER TO HAWAII?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION?

MS. CLARK: RELEVANCE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: HEARSAY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: OUTSIDE THE SCOPE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. ARE YOU AWARE OF THESE THREE TRIPS?

THE WITNESS: OF TRIPS? I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THEY WENT SOMEWHERE. ONE WAS HAWAII I'M PRETTY SURE. I DON'T KNOW IF ONE WAS MEXICO, BUT I KNOW OF VACATIONS.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: FREQUENT VACATIONS, ESPECIALLY IN FEBRUARY AND MARCH OF '94?

A: THE EXACT DATE, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I'M SURE THERE WERE VACATIONS PROBABLY. THEY SEEMED TO TRAVEL.

Q: WERE THERE VACATIONS TO CABO SAN LUCAS?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THERE A VACATION TO MIAMI?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU SAID THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE VACATION TO HAWAII?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: AND THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN MORE THAT YOU ARE UNAWARE OF?

A: YES.

Q: AND ALSO DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME, IF MR. SIMPSON WAS SPENDING FIVE NIGHTS A WEEK WITH NICOLE AND THE CHILDREN AT BUNDY, YOU WOULD NOT BE AWARE OF THAT, WOULD YOU?

A: I WOULD NOT IF HE WAS THERE. I WOULD ASK, POSSIBLY IF IT WAS MICHELLE OR GIGI, IF O.J. WAS AROUND, SHE MIGHT HAVE SAID "HE IS OVER AT NICOLE'S."

Q: AND WHEN YOU WERE TELLING US THAT ON OCCASIONS YOU WOULD ACTUALLY ONLY OBSERVE MR. SIMPSON WITH HIS CHILDREN FOR A SPECIFIC PERIOD OF TIME, EVEN DURING THOSE VISITS OR TIMES TOGETHER THERE WOULD BE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE OF; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: MR. KAELIN, HAS ANYONE FROM ANY TABLOIDS APPROACHED YOU TO SELL YOUR STORY?

A: YES.

Q: WHO HAS APPROACHED YOU?

A: EVERYONE. EVERY TABLOID.

Q: HOW MUCH MONEY HAVE YOU BEEN OFFERED?

A: A LOT. UMM, CLOSE TO A MILLION, I GUESS.

Q: HAVE YOU ACCEPTED ANY MONEY FROM ANY TABLOIDS FOR YOUR STORY?

A: NO.

Q: HAVE YOU DISCUSSED THE MATTER OF SELLING YOUR STORY IN CONJUNCTION WITH GRANT CRAMER?

A: OF SELLING IT?

Q: SELLING IT OR MAKING IT AVAILABLE OR GETTING PAID FOR YOUR STORY WITH GRANT CRAMER TO A TABLOID?

A: YEAH. I DIDN'T WANT TO SELL A STORY.

Q: ISN'T IT TRUE THAT GRANT CRAMER TRIED TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO SELL THE STORY WITH HIM AND THAT IT WOULD BE WORTH MORE MONEY IF HE HAD YOU --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, HEARSAY.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- TOGETHER WITH HIM?

MS. CLARK: HEARSAY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

THE WITNESS: YES.

MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: MR. KAELIN, YOU GOT A LOT OF MONEY FOR YOUR APPEARANCE ON CURRENT AFFAIR, DIDN'T YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, ISN'T IT TRUE, MR. KAELIN, THAT YOU HAVE A BOOK PROPOSAL OUT FOR ABOUT HALF A MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT NOW, DON'T YOU?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DON'T HAVE A BOOK PROPOSAL?

A: NO.

Q: AREN'T YOU REPRESENTED BY THE WILLIAM MORRIS AGENCY TO WRITE A BOOK?

A: NO.

Q: HAVEN'T YOU WRITTEN A BOOK PROPOSAL THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO ST. MARTIN'S FOR PUBLICATION?

A: NO.

Q: YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY CONTRACT FOR HALF A MILLION DOLLARS THAT YOU HAVE SIGNED?

A: I KNOW IT IS OUT THERE, BUT I HAVEN'T DONE THAT.

Q: YOU HAVEN'T SIGNED IT YET?

A: OH, NO. I HEARD A STORY ABOUT THAT. THAT IS NOT TRUE.

Q: YOU DON'T HAVE ANY BOOK PROPOSALS OUT?

A: NO, I DON'T WANT TO DO A BOOK.

Q: DO YOU PLAN TO WRITE A BOOK IN THE FUTURE, MR. KAELIN?

A: AS OF TODAY, NO WAY.

Q: BUT YOU MAY WELL DO THAT IN THE FUTURE, MIGHT YOU?

A: IN THE FUTURE MAYBE.

Q: UH-HUH.

A: BUT RIGHT NOW, NO.

Q: NOT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE AWARE OF A LAW THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM DOING THAT FOR 90 DAYS?

A: I KNOW THERE IS A LAW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE -- OF 90 DAYS OR WHATEVER IT IS, BUT I KNOW THERE IS A LAW ABOUT WRITING SOMETHING.

Q: HOW MANY LAWYERS DO YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW, MR. KAELIN?

A: TWO.

Q: BEFORE JUNE 12 OF 1994 HOW MANY LAWYERS DID YOU HAVE, MR. KAELIN?

A: ZERO.

Q: HOW ARE YOU PAYING THEM, THESE TWO LAWYERS, MR. KAELIN?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS PRIVILEGED MATERIAL.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED, ALTHOUGH HE HAS COUNSEL HERE AND THAT OBJECTION WAS NOT RAISED BY HIM. I WILL ALLOW IT TO STAND AT THIS POINT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW ARE YOU PAYING YOUR LAWYERS, MR. KAELIN?

A: WITH MICHAEL PLOTKIN IT IS A PERCENTAGE OF WORK.

Q: A PERCENTAGE OF WORK?

A: IF WORK COMES HE WILL GET A PERCENTAGE OFF THAT.

Q: SO HE IS REPRESENTING YOU RIGHT NOW ON THE "IF COME," AS THEY SAY? IF YOU MAKE MONEY, HE GETS A PERCENTAGE OF IT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: SOUNDS LIKE HE IS BETTING YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE QUITE A LOT OF MONEY, DOESN'T IT, MR. KAELIN?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: IT IS ARGUMENTATIVE. SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR OTHER LAWYER?

A: BILL GENEGO?

Q: UH-HUH.

A: A GOOD FAITH, I GUESS.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: GOOD FAITH.

Q: GOOD FAITH?

A: HE WAS -- THERE WAS A FEW LAWYERS THAT WERE COMING TO REPRESENT ME AND THEY KEPT COMING OVER AND I GOT IT FROM A FRIEND AND SAID BILL IS A FRIEND AND I SAID, "OKAY," SO I TOOK IT OUT OF MY FRIEND'S WORD THAT HE WAS A GOOD GUY.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU PLAN TO PAY HIM?

A: I DON'T THINK I AM GOING TO PAY HIM.

Q: YOU DON'T THINK YOU ARE EVER GOING TO PAY HIM?

A: I THINK EVENTUALLY, YES, I WILL OWE EVERYTHING.

Q: OUT OF THE MONEY YOU PLAN TO MAKE YOU WILL PAY HIM; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: SOMEHOW IF I MAKE IT. I CAN'T PREDICT WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

Q: UH-HUH. AND HOW LONG HAS HE BEEN REPRESENTING YOU?

A: THE DAY OF THE GRAND JURY.

Q: SINCE JUNE THE 17TH?

A: YES.

Q: AND HAS HE BEEN PRESENT ON EVERY OCCASION WHEN YOU HAVE INTERVIEWED -- BEEN IN MY OFFICE FOR AN INTERVIEW?

A: I THINK HE MISSED ONE; HE HAD SOMEONE ELSE SHOW UP.

Q: HE HAD OTHER LAWYERS COME, DIDN'T HE?

A: YES.

Q: SO HE HAS BEEN PRESENT AT EVERY INTERVIEW OR SENT ON ONE OCCASION A LAWYER IN TO BE WITH YOU DURING YOUR INTERVIEWS WITH ME; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO ME ALONE WITHOUT A LAWYER REPRESENTING YOU, HAVE YOU, MR. KAELIN?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND ON YOUR INTERVIEWS WITH MR. SHAPIRO HE HAS BEEN PRESENT DURING THOSE INTERVIEWS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN FACT ON SOME OCCASIONS HE HAS MET WITH MR. SHAPIRO WITHOUT YOU; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: I WASN'T IN THE ROOM. I WAS IN THE BUILDING, BUT NOT IN THE ROOM TOGETHER.

Q: HE HAS ENGAGED IN NUMEROUS TELEPHONE CALLS ON YOUR BEHALF, HAS HE NOT, MR. KAELIN?

A: UMM, WILLIAM GENEGO?

Q: YES.

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT HE SPENT UPWARDS OF 100 TO 200 HOURS WORKING WITH YOU ON YOUR SITUATION?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HOURS. I DON'T THINK IT HAS BEEN THAT MANY HOURS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SINCE JUNE THE 17TH?

A: BUT WE DIDN'T MEET ALL THE TIME. IT WOULD BE HE WOULD CALL TO SEE IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE AN APPOINTMENT AND MEET THE DAY BEFORE AND THEN GO SEE WHOEVER WE WERE GOING TO SEE.

Q: WELL, YOU HAVE MET WITH HIM QUITE A FEW TIMES? MORE TIMES THAN YOU HAVE MET WITH EITHER MYSELF OR MR. SHAPIRO, HAVEN'T YOU?

A: YES.

Q: ARE YOU AWARE OF WHAT HIS HOURLY RATE IS?

A: NO. BILL GENEGO'S? NO, NO IDEA.

Q: AND YOU HAVEN'T PAID HIM ONE DIME YET, HAVE YOU, MR. KAELIN?

A: NO, I HAVEN'T.

Q: YOU HAVEN'T PAID MR. PLOTKIN ONE DIME YET, HAVE YOU?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAVE YOU PAID MR. PLOTKIN?

A: WHATEVER THE PERCENTAGES ARE.

Q: RIGHT, BUT YOU HAVE NOT PAID HIM ANY MONEY AS OF THIS DATE?

A: YES. HE HAS RECEIVED MONEY.

Q: AND HOW MUCH IS THAT?

A: I DON'T KNOW. IT GOES FROM AN AGENT TO HIM.

Q: AND WHAT IS THE PERCENTAGE?

A: FIVE PERCENT.

Q: HOW MUCH HAVE YOU MADE SO FOR SINCE JUNE THE 12TH?

A: ABOUT SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

Q: SO FAR MR. PLOTKIN HAS RECEIVED FIVE PERCENT OF THAT?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: AND HE WILL STAND TO RECEIVE FIVE PERCENT OF WHATEVER ELSE YOU PLAN TO DO, WHETHER IT IS A BOOK OR A MOVIE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL OF WHICH MAY HAPPEN AFTER YOU COMPLETE YOUR TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: IT COULD HAPPEN, YES.

Q: BETWEEN MAY OF '93 AND MAY OF '94 HOW OFTEN DID YOU SEE PAULA BARBIERI AT THE ROCKINGHAM HOUSE?

A: NOT VERY OFTEN.

Q: BUT SHE WAS THERE?

A: OH, SHE CAME BY, YES.

Q: SHE SPENT THE NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING HER SPEND THE NIGHT?

A: WELL, I WOULD NEVER SEE HER SPEND THE NIGHT BECAUSE I COULDN'T SEE FROM WHERE I STAY, BUT IF SHE WAS THERE I WOULD SAY I WOULD PROBABLY KNOW IT OF ABOUT THREE TIMES IN THE HOUSE.

Q: THAT IS JUST THE TIME THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT I WOULD ASSUME THAT SHE WAS THERE THAT NIGHT.

Q: THERE MIGHT BE TIMES SHE WAS THERE THAT YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, ON JUNE THE 11TH THE DEFENDANT WENT OUT WITH PAULA TO AN EVENT, DIDN'T HE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, DURING THE EARLY MONTHS OF JANUARY -- OF 1994, HE WAS DATING PAULA BARBIERI, WASN'T HE?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: AND DURING THE -- AT THE END OF THE YEAR OF 1993 HE WAS DATING PAULA BARBIERI, WASN'T HE?

A: '93? I THINK. I THINK SO.

Q: AND ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY -- HAVE YOU HEARD THE NAME TAWNY KITAEN?

A: YES.

Q: WASN'T THAT ANOTHER WOMAN THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS DATING IN THE NINETIES?

A: I THINK THEY DATED. I DON'T KNOW. I WASN'T AROUND, BUT I THINK THEY HAD -- THEY DATED. I'M PRETTY SURE.

Q: THAT WAS BETWEEN THE DATES OF '85 AND '94, WASN'T IT?

A: OF '85 AND '94? YES.

Q: ARE YOU AWARE OF WHEN MR. SIMPSON MARRIED NICOLE BROWN?

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT. THIS IS BEYOND THE SCOPE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW THE DATE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR MEMORY IF I GAVE YOU A DATE?

A: IN THE EIGHTIES I THINK.

Q: AROUND '85?

A: I THINK SO.

Q: SOUND RIGHT?

A: YES.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, YOU INDICATED TO MR. SHAPIRO THAT BETWEEN MAY OF '93 AND MAY OF '94 NICOLE AND MR. SIMPSON WERE ATTEMPTING TO RECONCILE?

A: AT SOME POINT.

Q: BACK AND FORTH DURING THAT WHOLE YEAR; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: IT WAS LIKE A COMMITMENT. THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME WHILE O.J. WAS IN TOWN. I DON'T KNOW THE DATES, BUT I THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH FOOTBALL SEASON, LEAVING FOR THAT, TO SEE IF THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE IT. I THINK IT WAS TO LAST UNTIL AUGUST OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHENEVER FOOTBALL SEASON WOULD START IN NEW YORK.

Q: SO THERE WAS -- WHAT WAS IT, A PROMISE THAT NICOLE MADE TO ACT LIKE HIS WIFE UNTIL AUGUST OF '94?

MR. SHAPIRO: I'M GOING TO OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION?

MR. SHAPIRO: WELL, IT IS AN ARGUMENTATIVE QUESTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. SHAPIRO: HEARSAY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. SHAPIRO: CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE IT WORK AS A COUPLE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NO, THAT WASN'T MAY QUESTION.

A: SAY IT AGAIN.

Q: WAS THERE AN AGREEMENT THAT NICOLE WOULD BEHAVE AS THOUGH SHE WERE STILL MR. SIMPSON'S WIFE UNTIL AUGUST OF '94 WHEN FOOTBALL SEASON WOULD START?

MR. SHAPIRO: I'M GOING TO OBJECT TO THE FORM -- TO THE QUESTION AS BEING VAGUE "BEHAVE AS IF." I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS THAT TYPE BEHAVIOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, SIR?

THE WITNESS: THAT THEY WERE TOGETHER, THERE WAS GOING TO BE A COMMITMENT TO BE TOGETHER, YES --

MS. CLARK: NO.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, MAY HE FINISH HIS ANSWER?

THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.

MS. CLARK: LET ME ASK --

THE COURT: WHEN I SAY "WAIT," EVERYBODY STOPS TALKING, EXCEPT FOR ME. UNDERSTOOD?

MR. SHAPIRO: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OBVIOUSLY THE QUESTION NEEDS TO BE REPHRASED.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WAS THERE AN AGREEMENT THAT NICOLE MADE WITH MR. SIMPSON NOT TO SEE ANOTHER MAN UNTIL AUGUST OF '94 WHEN HE WOULD LEAVE FOR THE FOOTBALL SEASON?

A: I THINK THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT, TO MAKE IT WORK, SO I THINK THEY HAD AN AGREEMENT -- IT WAS LIKE NO DATING, THEY WERE GOING TO STAY TOGETHER.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT -- I'M SORRY.

A: LIKE THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THE DATES. I THINK IT WAS THAT TIME FOR FOOTBALL SEASON, BEFORE.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER IT WAS FOR THE PURPOSE OF MR. SIMPSON'S IMAGE OR THE PURPOSE OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP?

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT. THAT IS SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: BUT DURING THAT TIME PERIOD -- DURING THE PERIOD OF 1994 HE WAS DATING PAULA BARBIERI?

A: YEAH. I THINK THEY DATED, YES.

Q: IN JANUARY WASN'T HE DATING PAULA BARBIERI?

A: I THINK SO.

Q: DON'T YOU RECALL A TRIP WITH HER TO HAWAII BETWEEN '93 AND '94?

A: I DON'T KNOW. IF THEY WENT, THEY WENT. I DIDN'T KNOW IF THEY GO ON TRIPS, BUT THEY PROBABLY DID. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, DO YOU RECALL THAT THERE WAS A TRIP THAT HE TOOK TO PALM SPRINGS WITH PAULA BARBIERI IN JUNE OF 1994?

A: I THINK -- THERE IS A TRIP. I THINK IT WAS MEMORIAL DAY.

Q: MEMORIAL DAY?

A: YES. I THINK IT WAS TO PALM SPRINGS THEN.

Q: THAT WAS THE DEFENDANT AND PAULA BARBIERI TOOK THAT TRIP TOGETHER TO PALM SPRINGS, DIDN'T THEY?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU STATED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT YOU REALLY LIKED BOTH NICOLE AND THE DEFENDANT. DO YOU RECALL STATING THAT?

A: YES.

Q: BUT NICOLE DID NOT GIVE YOU A PLACE TO STAY FOR FREE, DID SHE?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOU TOLD MR. SHAPIRO THAT EVEN THOUGH THE DEFENDANT LET YOU STAY IN THE GUEST UNIT FOR FREE, YOU FELT NO OBLIGATION TO HIM. DO YOU RECALL SAYING THAT?

A: THAT ALTHOUGH I STAYED THERE FREE I FELT NO OBLIGATION TO HIM?

Q: YES. DO YOU RECALL SAYING THAT?

A: I GUESS, YES.

Q: NOW, IN MR. SIMPSON'S -- ON MR. SIMPSON'S ESTATE YOU HAD A ROOM WITH ITS OWN BATHROOM; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: IT HAD ITS OWN OFFICE?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAD ACCESS TO A JACUZZI?

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR --

THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO.

MR. SHAPIRO: -- OBJECTION. THIS HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED SEVERAL TIMES.

THE COURT: I ASSUME THIS IS FOUNDATIONAL FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

MS. CLARK: FOUNDATIONAL. OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU HAD ACCESS TO A JACUZZI?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAD ACCESS TO A SWIMMING POOL?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAD ACCESS TO THE KITCHEN AREA AND THE POOL HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE PAID TO LIVE IN A PLACE LIKE THAT, MR. KAELIN?

A: I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE LIVED THERE IF THERE WAS A PRICE ON IT.

Q: IF YOU COULD HAVE AFFORDED TO PAY FOR IT, SIR, WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD YOU HAVE PAID FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? A THOUSAND, 1500 A MONTH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

A: OH, IN THAT AREA.

Q: IN THAT AREA?

A: YES.

Q: YOU STAYED THERE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS?

A: YES.

Q: YOU SAVED AT LEAST $6,000 STAYING THERE RENT FREE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: SO THE DEFENDANT SAVED YOU AT LEAST $6,000 BY LETTING YOU STAY THERE WITHOUT PAYING ANY RENT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND HE GOT YOU AN ACTING PART, DIDN'T HE?

A: NO.

Q: DIDN'T YOU TELL US ABOUT THE KUSHNER-LOCKE?

A: I HAD THE AUDITION THROUGH AN AGENT.

Q: HE MADE A PHONE CALL TO HELP YOU, DIDN'T HE?

A: HE MENTIONED TO HIM THAT I KNEW SOMEONE AND I DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME AND HE SAID HE WAS ON THE BOARD THERE AND HE SAID, "I WILL MAKE A CALL."

Q: SO HE HELPED YOU?

A: NO. I HAD THE READING -- I DIDN'T GET THE PART.

Q: HE TRIED TO HELP YOU?

A: YES, HE DID.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SAVED YOU $6,000 IN RENT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU STAYED ON THAT BEAUTIFUL ESTATE, YES?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAD ACCESS TO A FAMOUS CELEBRITY?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: YES?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT OUT TO SEE YOUR FRIENDS YOU COULD TELL THEM THAT YOU WERE LIVING ON MR. SIMPSON'S ESTATE, COULDN'T YOU?

A: I COULD, BUT I DIDN'T DO THAT.

Q: YOU DIDN'T DO THAT, MR. KAELIN? YOU NEVER TOLD ANYONE YOU LIVED ON MR. SIMPSON'S ESTATE?

A: WELL, SOME PEOPLE KNEW, CLOSE FRIENDS, BUT IT WASN'T --

Q: WITH ALL OF THAT YOU DON'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO HIM; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: YOU DON'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO HIM? IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY?

A: UMM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN "OBLIGATED"?

Q: DID YOU NEED MR. SHAPIRO TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU, SIR?

MR. SHAPIRO: I'M GOING TO OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS --

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THAT IS ARGUMENTATIVE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT YOU DO NOT FEEL OBLIGATED TO MR. SIMPSON WITH ALL THAT I HAVE -- WE HAVE JUST MENTIONED? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

A: SOMEWHAT, YES, THAT I --

Q: ON JUNE THE 12TH YOU STATED THAT YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE AND YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON AT ABOUT 3:00 P.M.; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: HOW DID YOU HAPPEN TO GO INTO THE HOUSE AT THAT TIME?

A: I THINK AT THAT TIME I WALKED BY AND HE SAID MY NAME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Q: HE INVITED YOU IN?

A: YES.

Q: YOU WOULD NOT GO IN WITHOUT BEING INVITED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU WERE INVITED IN BY MR. SIMPSON AT THREE O'CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON ON JUNE THE 12TH; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU WERE INVITED IN AGAIN BY HIM AT ABOUT 6:00 OR 6:30 AFTER THE RECITAL; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND AGAIN AT 9:00 P.M., WHEN HE WANTED TO GO OUT TO DINNER, YOU WERE WITH HIM AGAIN AND WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN AGAIN AT 11:00 P.M., WHEN HE WAS GETTING READY TO LEAVE FOR THE LIMO, YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE AGAIN WITH HIM AT THAT TIME, WERE YOU NOT?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: SO ON JUNE THE 12TH YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE WITH MR. SIMPSON AT 3:00, AT 6:00, AT 9:00 AND AT 11:00 P.M.; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: NO, NOT AT 9:00.

Q: YOU WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU WERE WITH HIM ON ALL FOUR OCCASIONS; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OTHER THAN JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994, DID YOU EVER SPEND THAT MUCH TIME WITH MR. SIMPSON OR GO INTO HIS HOUSE ON THOSE -- THAT MANY OCCASIONS?

A: NO.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.)

THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO.

MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR.

FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Q: MR. KAELIN, REGARDING THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU HAVE SPENT WITH MR. SIMPSON, HAVE YOU BEEN IN THE HOUSE FOR ANY PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME PRIOR TO JUNE THE 12TH?

A: YES.

Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

A: I WATCHED A FOOTBALL GAME --

Q: HOW LONG DID YOU WATCH A FOOT BALLGAME FOR?

A: THREE, FOUR HOURS.

Q: WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU DONE IN THE HOUSE?

A: WATCHED A MOVIE, HAD CHRISTMAS, BREAKFAST SOMETIMES.

Q: YOU WOULD SAY THAT MR. SIMPSON TREATED YOU IN A VERY KIND AND NICE WAY?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION. THAT IS IRRELEVANT AND IT IS ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. IT IS INNOCUOUS.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND ON THIS OCCASION, AS FAR AS GOING TO MC DONALD'S, I BELIEVE YOU TOLD US THAT YOU INVITED YOURSELF TO GO WITH HIM?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND REGARDING ACCESS TO THE LIVING QUARTERS OF MR. SIMPSON, THAT WASN'T A PLACE THAT YOU HAD FREE ACCESS TO, WAS IT?

A: SAY IT AGAIN.

Q: THE LIVING QUARTERS OF MR. SIMPSON, HIS KITCHEN, HIS DINING ROOM, HIS DEN, WAS THAT A PLACE THAT YOU HAD FREE ACCESS TO OR NOT?

A: NO, I WOULDN'T GO IN WITHOUT BEING INVITED.

Q: REGARDING THE JACUZZI, HOW MANY TIMES WERE YOU IN THE JACUZZI?

A: ONCE.

Q: WOULD YOU SAY YOU DID NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE GENEROSITY OF MR. SIMPSON IN ALLOWING YOU TO STAY IN THE GUEST HOUSE TEMPORARILY?

A: I DID NOT.

Q: REGARDING DATES, ARE YOU PRECISE AS TO DATES OF TIMES MR. SIMPSON SPENT WITH PAULA BARBIERI?

A: NO. I THINK MEMORIAL DAY WAS THE ONE IN PALM SPRINGS, IF I REMEMBER. I'M KIND OF SURE ON THAT ONE. THE EXACT DATES, NO.

Q: WOULD IT BE A FAIR STATEMENT TO SAY THAT YOU NEVER SAW MR. O.J. SIMPSON WITH PAULA BARBIERI PRIOR TO MAY OF 1994?

A: I MIGHT HAVE ONCE, BUT I SAW -- I THINK I FIRST SAW PAULA, LIKE I KNEW ABOUT HER, BUT FIRST MET HER IN APRIL OR MAY, BUT I THINK MAYBE MAY. I'M NOT POSITIVE.

Q: OF '94?

A: OF '94.

Q: AND YOU KNEW THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS GETTING BACK TOGETHER WITH HER, THAT THEY HAD DATED SOMETIME PRIOR?

A: THEY -- THAT HE KNEW HER FROM BEFORE THEY DATED?

Q: YES.

A: YES.

Q: REGARDING THE ISSUE OF YOU GETTING TO HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF STAYING AS MR. SIMPSON'S GUEST, IT HAS BEEN POINTED OUT BY THE PROSECUTOR THAT THAT MAY HAVE HAD A VALUE OF $6,000. IT MAY HAVE HAD A VALUE GREATER THAN THAT, MIGHT IT NOT?

A: YES.

Q: REGARDLESS OF THE VALUE, WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH TO GET YOU TO LIE IN THIS CASE, SIR?

A: I WILL NOT LIE.

Q: FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY?

A: FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY.

MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. KAELIN, I'M GOING TO EXCUSE YOU AT THIS TIME; HOWEVER, YOU ARE SUBJECT TO RECALL. I'M GOING TO ORDER YOU NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE LAWYERS IN THE CASE AND YOUR OWN ATTORNEY. AND YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO COME BACK TO COURT WITHIN 48 HOURS OF BEING NOTIFIED BY THE COURT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER, SIR?

THE WITNESS: I WILL COME BACK.

THE COURT: WE MAY NEED YOU BACK, I DON'T KNOW YET, BUT YOU ARE STILL SUBJECT TO RECALL.

THE WITNESS: OKAY.

THE COURT: DO YOU UNDERSTAND MY ORDER, SIR?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU ARE EXCUSED FOR TODAY. THE PEOPLE'S NEXT WITNESS.

MS. CLARK: THE PEOPLE CALL MISS RACHEL FERRARA.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR, WITHOUT THE REPORTER?

THE COURT: YES. MISS CLARK, MR. COCHRAN.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, ARE THESE YOUR TRANSCRIPTS UP HERE?

MS. CLARK: NO, I THINK THEY ARE MR. SHAPIRO'S.

THE COURT: LET'S RESCUE THOSE.

MS. CLARK: YES, THEY ARE.

THE COURT: DEPUTY RUSSELL, LET'S RECYCLE OUR MATTERS HERE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, SIR. MISS CLARK, ARE YOU PREPARED TO CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS?

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR, I AM. THANK YOU. THE PEOPLE CALL MISS RACHEL FERRARA.

THE COURT: WAITING FOR MY CLERK.

MS. CLARK: MISSING A CLERK.

THE COURT: HERE SHE IS.

RACHEL FERRARA, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.

THE COURT: JUST SIT BACK, PULL THE MICROPHONE CLOSE TO YOU, PLEASE. THANK YOU. MISS CLARK. I'M SORRY.

THE CLERK: STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES, PLEASE.

THE WITNESS: RACHEL, R-A-C-H-E-L, FERRARA, F-E-R-R-A-R-A.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: LET ME HELP YOU. TALK INTO IT LIKE A TELEPHONE. OKAY.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: OKAY. MISS FERRARA, ARE YOU A FRIEND OF SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF BRIAN KAELIN, ALSO KNOWN AS KATO KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN HIM?

A: I HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE MARCH OF '94.

Q: AND DURING THE TIME THAT YOU KNEW HIM IN 1994, WHERE WAS HE LIVING?

A: IN O.J.'S GUEST HOUSE.

Q: AND WHERE WAS THAT HOUSE?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: WHAT WAS THE ADDRESS OF THAT HOUSE?

A: UMM, 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM.

Q: IN BRENTWOOD?

A: UH-HUH, YES.

Q: AND HAD YOU EVER VISITED HIM AT THAT GUEST HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE?

A: YES.

Q: ON JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994, DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL FROM KATO KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AT APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME?

A: APPROXIMATELY 10:20.

Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU GOT THIS CALL?

A: AT HOME.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: AT HOME.

Q: WITHOUT GIVING US YOUR ADDRESS, WHERE THAT WAS AT THE TIME, TELL US THE GENERAL AREA YOU WERE LIVING IN ON JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994.

A: IT IS WEST L.A., PALMS.

Q: OKAY. ABOUT HOW MANY MILES FROM ROCKINGHAM AND BRENTWOOD WOULD THAT BE?

A: UMM, TEN MILES. THAT IS A GUESS. I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: OKAY. AT 10:20 P.M. WHAT WERE YOU DOING WHEN YOU GOT THAT PHONE CALL FROM MR. KAELIN?

A: I WAS, UMM, WATCHING T.V.; NOT MUCH.

Q: DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT?

A: WE TALKED ABOUT --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU DISCUSS WITH HIM A TYPEWRITER?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER THAT DISCUSSION DID YOU HAVE SOME FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT ACTIVITIES THAT YOU WERE INVOLVED IN AT THAT TIME PERIOD?

A: A LITTLE BIT, YES.

Q: WERE YOU STUDYING ACTING AT THAT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU AND KATO INVOLVED IN SOME PROJECT TOGETHER OR JOB TOGETHER AT THAT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: A MOVIE WE WERE BOTH WORKING ON.

Q: WERE YOU ACTING IN THAT MOVIE?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU DOING?

A: I WAS A PRODUCTION ASSISTANT.

Q: AND WHAT WAS KATO KAELIN DOING?

A: HE WAS DOING A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING. HE WAS DOING SOME EXTRAS CASTING AND HE WAS AN ASSISTANT TO ONE OF THE PRODUCERS AND HE WAS -- HE HAD A PART, BUT -- WELL, THEY CUT IT OUT, BUT HE HAD A PART.

Q: HE HAD A PART BUT THEY CUT IT OUT?

A: YES.

Q: SO OTHER THAN THAT, WHAT KIND OF DUTIES WAS HE PERFORMING? GOFER?

A: A LITTLE BIT, YES. WELL, HE WAS AN ASSISTANT TO A PRODUCER, SO I GUESS THEY MAKE YOU DO PROBABLY ABOUT ANYTHING THEY CAN, SO --

Q: ABOUT ANYTHING, WHICH WOULD BE?

A: UMM, RUNNING ERRANDS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE TAKING PEOPLE TO LUNCH, UMM, JUST HANDLING THEIR AFFAIRS BASICALLY. IT DEPENDS.

Q: NOW, DID KATO TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHAT HE HAD DONE EARLIER THAT EVENING?

A: SOMEWHAT, YES.

Q: DID HE TALK TO YOU ABOUT GOING TO MC DONALD'S WITH MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATION DID YOU HAPPEN TO ASK KATO KAELIN WHAT TIME IT WAS?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU HAPPEN TO RECALL THAT?

A: BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO GO OUT AND DO SOMETHING AND I ASKED HIM -- I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF IT WAS TOO LATE AND HE SAID -- SO I ASKED HIM WHAT TIME IT WAS AND HE SAID 10:30.

Q: NOW, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO GO OUT WITH HIM THAT NIGHT, WERE YOU?

A: YES. WELL, I DON'T KNOW OUT, BUT --

Q: GET TOGETHER?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO AFTER HE TOLD YOU IT WAS 10:30, AT SOME POINT AFTER THAT DID SOMETHING UNUSUAL OCCUR DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATION WITH HIM?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT WAS THAT?

A: WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AS AN EARTHQUAKE. UMM, HE SAID THERE WAS A BANG ON HIS WALL.

Q: OKAY. AND ABOUT HOW LONG AFTER YOU HAD ASKED THE TIME AND HE TOLD YOU IT WAS 10:30 DID HE DESCRIBE AN EARTHQUAKE OCCURRING?

A: AFTER 10:30?

Q: RIGHT. YOU ASKED HIM WHAT TIME IT WAS; HE SAID 10:30, CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AT SOME POINT AFTER THAT HE DESCRIBED AN EARTHQUAKE OCCURRING?

A: UH-HUH.

Q: HOW LONG AFTER THAT TIME WHEN HE SAID IT WAS 10:30 DID HE DESCRIBE HEARING AN EARTHQUAKE?

A: APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES.

Q: AND HOW DID HE DESCRIBE THAT EARTHQUAKE SOUND?

A: HE SAID IT WAS A BANG.

Q: AND WHEN HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT, HOW DID HE SOUND?

A: HE SOUNDED CONFUSED AND STARTLED AND CONCERNED.

Q: DID HE SOUND SCARED?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID HE INDICATE TO YOU IN ANY WAY THAT HE WAS -- HOW DID HE INDICATE TO YOU THAT HE WAS CONCERNED?

A: WELL, BECAUSE WE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WAS AND HE SAID, "WAS THERE AN EARTHQUAKE?" AND I HAD THE T.V. ON SO I SAID "NO" -- FOR ONE THING, I DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING AND ALSO BECAUSE THEY USUALLY REPORT IT RIGHT AWAY, SOME SORT OF INDICATION, AND UMM, JUST BECAUSE HE KEPT REFERRING BACK TO IT IN THE CONVERSATION.

Q: OKAY. AFTER HE --

A: AND IT ALSO KNOCKED HIS PICTURE.

Q: HE SAID IT MOVED THE PICTURE ON HIS WALL?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AFTER HE -- AFTER YOU SAID "NO," IT WAS NOT AN EARTHQUAKE --

A: YES.

Q: -- DID HE INDICATE SOME CONCERN TO YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT CONCERN WAS THAT?

A: WE THOUGHT MAYBE SOMEBODY WAS OUTSIDE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU CONTINUED TO TALK TO HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE AFTER THAT, DID YOU?

A: YES.

Q: ABOUT HOW LONG?

A: APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES OR SO.

Q: OKAY. DURING THAT TEN MINUTES THAT YOU CONTINUED TO TALK TO HIM DID THE SUBJECT OF THAT BANG COME UP AGAIN?

A: YES.

Q: HOW MANY TIMES?

A: OH, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES. I JUST KNOW THAT IT CAME UP AGAIN.

Q: OKAY. WHAT DID HE TELL YOU WITH RESPECT TO WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR. HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID HE INDICATE TO YOU WHAT, IF ANYTHING, HE WAS GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT, THAT BANG?

A: WELL, AT THE --

MR. COCHRAN: SHOULD BE ANSWERED YES OR NO. DID HE TELL YOU WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO?

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NEXT QUESTION. THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID HE TELL YOU HE WAS GOING TO DO?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: 1236, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT?

MS. CLARK: SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT, 1241 AND 1240, CONTEMPORANEOUS, AND 1236, PRIOR CONSISTENT.

MR. COCHRAN: CAN I BE HEARD ON 1236 AND 1241?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WITH THE COURT REPORTER.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

MR. COCHRAN: I WAS GOING TO SAY 352 SO THAT WE CAN CUT OUT ALL THAT STUFF.

MS. CLARK: THAT IS THE ONLY ONE YOU KNOW.

THE COURT: WE ARE AT THE SIDE BAR. HEARSAY IS THE OBJECTION.

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE AN OFFER OF PROOF. THIS MAY FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER, ABOUT SO WHAT, BUT I NEED TO KNOW WHERE WE ARE GOING.

MS. CLARK: NOW, YOU WANT HIM TO SAY INNOCUOUS TO ME, HUM? EXCUSE ME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: THE OFFER OF PROOF IS THAT SHE WILL SAY, AS A PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT OF KATO, THAT HE INTENDED TO GO OUT AND CHECK ON THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE.

MR. COCHRAN: STILL HEARSAY. I MEAN, THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T -- SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE DID. SHE IS ON THE PHONE.

MS. CLARK: DOESN'T MATTER. IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT IS A PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT OF KATO'S.

THE COURT: BUT IS THERE AN INCONSISTENT STATEMENT ANYWHERE?

MR. COCHRAN: WHERE IS THE INCONSISTENT STATEMENT? THAT IS WHAT HE SAID.

THE COURT: IS THERE ANY DISPUTE THAT AFTER FINISHING HE WENT OUTSIDE?

MS. CLARK: BUT THIS GOES TO THE GENERAL CREDIBILITY OF THE REACTION THAT HE HAD TO --

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, LET ME JUST SEE IF WE CAN SAVE SOME TIME. IN ORDER FOR A PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT TO COME IN THERE HAS TO BE A PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT THAT IT IS IN CONTROVERSY WITH.

MS. CLARK: UH-HUH.

THE COURT: WHICH IS WHY YOU GET TO BRING IT IN.

MS. CLARK: RIGHT.

THE COURT: BUT HE HAS NOT SAID PREVIOUSLY --

MS. CLARK: BUT THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SPECIFICALLY ON THAT PARTICULAR POINT THAT YOU BRING IT IN. HIS CREDIBILITY IN GENERAL IS UNDER ATTACK, BY ME.

MR. COCHRAN: LET'S GET THAT RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: BY ME, AS WELL AS BY COUNSEL, IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT ASPECTS. SINCE HIS CREDIBILITY IS UNDER ATTACK AND THIS IS ONE OF THE CRITICAL FACTS IN THE CASE, HIS CREDIBILITY IS IN ISSUE WITH RESPECT TO EVERYTHING HE HAS TESTIFIED TO. COUNSEL, IF THEY ARE WILLING TO STIPULATE THAT HE SPOKE -- THAT HE WAS VERY UPSET BY THE SOUND, THE BANG ON THE WALL, THAT AS A RESULT HE DETERMINED THAT HE HAD TO GO OUT TO THE SOUTH PATHWAY TO CHECK IT OUT AND HE SO ADVISED MISS FERRARA, FINE.

THE COURT: HERE IS THE INTERESTING THING, THOUGH. SHE HAS ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT NOT ONLY SHE WAS CONCERNED, NOT ONLY WAS HE, KATO KAELIN CONCERNED, BUT SHE TESTIFIED I WAS CONCERNED THAT THERE WAS SOMEBODY OUTSIDE. SHE SAID, "WE WERE WORRIED THERE WAS SOMEBODY OUTSIDE." SO YOU HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN ALL THIS STUFF IN. I HAVE TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION BECAUSE THERE IS NO INCONSISTENT STATEMENT.

MS. CLARK: WHAT ABOUT -- I'M NOT DONE. I'VE GOT ANOTHER ONE. WHAT ABOUT 1241?

MR. COCHRAN: YOU DON'T HAVE TO APOLOGIZE.

THE COURT: HOLD ON.

MS. CLARK: WHAT ABOUT 1241, YOUR HONOR, THE STATEMENT OF SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT UNDER PEOPLE VERSUS ACALDE, EVIDENCE SECTION CODE 1241, EVIDENCE OF FUTURE ACT PREMISED UPON A CURRENT EVENT. AND I BELIEVE IT IS ADMISSIBLE UNDER THAT THEORY AS WELL, SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT.

THE COURT: I HAVE TO TELL YOU I THINK WE ARE WASTING A LOT OF TIME ON THIS BECAUSE IT REALLY IS INNOCUOUS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE IS A DISPUTE THAT AFTER FINISHING TALKING TO HER HE GOES OUTSIDE.

MS. CLARK: IF IT IS NOT A BIG ISSUE, THEN WHY DON'T WE OVERRULE THE OBJECTION AND LET HER CONTINUE TO TESTIFY?

MR. COCHRAN: WE WASTE TIME.

MS. CLARK: WE ARE WASTING MUCH MORE TIME ARGUING.

MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS YOUR WITNESS.

THE COURT: AT THIS POINT I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU CONTINUED TO SPEAK FOR TEN MINUTES AFTER THE BANGS OCCURRED ON THE WALL?

MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMES A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. COCHRAN: BANGS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, BANG ON THE WALL. OKAY. AFTER THE BANG ON THE WALL. AND AT SOME POINT DID MR. KAELIN INDICATE TO YOU HE WANTED TO TERMINATE THE CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND WERE YOU EXPECTING, AT THE TIME HE TERMINATED THE CONVERSATION, TO HEAR BACK FROM HIM AGAIN?

A: YES.

Q: DID HE TELL YOU TO EXPECT TO HEAR BACK FROM HIM AGAIN?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION AS HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AFTER YOU HUNG UP FROM HIM DID YOU LEAVE YOUR APARTMENT?

A: NO.

Q: WHY DIDN'T YOU LEAVE YOUR APARTMENT?

A: BECAUSE I DIDN'T PLAN ON LEAVING.

Q: OKAY. WERE YOU WAITING FOR HIM TO CALL BACK?

A: YES.

Q: AND IF YOU DID NOT -- WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO IF YOU DID NOT HEAR BACK FROM HIM?

A: WELL, HE SAID BEFORE HE HUNG UP --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTED TO, YOUR HONOR. HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WELL, THAT IS NONRESPONSIVE TO THAT QUESTION.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE COURT: THE QUESTION WAS WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO IF YOU DID NOT HEAR BACK TO HIM.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE COURT: THAT IS WHY I SUSTAINED THE OBJECTION, BECAUSE THE ANSWER WAS NONRESPONSIVE.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: DID HE GIVE YOU SOME INSTRUCTION JUST BEFORE HANGING UP WITH YOU AFTER HEARING THE BANG?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT INSTRUCTION?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: NOT FOR THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT?

MS. CLARK: AND SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PROCEED. OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: GO AHEAD.

A: COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?

Q: YES. JUST BEFORE HE HUNG UP WITH YOU DID HE GIVE YOU SOME INSTRUCTION?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: HE SAID IF HE DOESN'T CALL BACK IN TEN MINUTES TO CALL THE POLICE.

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER HE WAS JOKING OR SERIOUS?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT WAS HIS TONE OF VOICE WHEN HE TOLD YOU THAT?

A: IT WAS -- I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER HIS TONE OF VOICE. IT WASN'T URGENT.

Q: WERE YOU CONCERNED?

A: NOT AT THE MOMENT, NOT AS MUCH.

Q: DID HE INDICATE AT ANY POINT THAT HE WANTED TO GO OUT AND FIND OUT WHAT CAUSED THE NOISE?

A: YES.

Q: AND ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU HUNG UP?

A: APPROXIMATELY 10:50.

Q: DID YOU EVER HEAR BACK FROM MR. KAELIN THAT NIGHT AFTER YOU HUNG UP AT 10:50?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT TIME WAS IT APPROXIMATELY WHEN YOU HEARD BACK FROM HIM?

A: I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY 11:05, FIVE AFTER 11:00.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: FIVE AFTER 11:00.

Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM ABOUT WHAT OCCURRED AFTER HE HUNG UP WITH YOU AT 10:50?

A: YES.

Q: DID HE DESCRIBE ANY ENCOUNTER HE HAD HAD WITH MR. SIMPSON?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DURING YOUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN WHEN YOU RESUMED YOUR CONVERSATION AFTER 11:00 OR 11:05, DID SOMETHING INTERRUPT YOUR TELEPHONE CALL WITH HIM?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW -- APPROXIMATELY HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN SPEAKING, IF YOU REMEMBER, AT THE POINT THAT THAT PHONE CALL WAS INTERRUPTED?

A: APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES.

Q: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE FEATURE ON TELEPHONES CALLED CALL WAITING?

A: YES.

Q: SO ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT OCCURS WHEN SOMEONE CALLS WHILE YOU ARE ON THE LINE IF YOU HAVE CALL WAITING?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT IS THAT?

A: THE -- IT CLICKS OR BEEPS OR -- ACTUALLY IT CLICKS.

Q: OKAY. AND DURING YOUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN AFTER 11:00 P.M., AFTER YOU HAD BEEN SPEAKING TO HIM FOR A WHILE, DID SOMETHING INTERRUPT YOUR CALL?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: CALL WAITING ON HIS LINE.

Q: ON HIS LINE.

Q: AND DID HE CLICK OFF ONTO THE OTHER LINE?

A: YES.

Q: DID HE COME BACK TO YOU AFTER THAT?

MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION THAT I KNOW THAT MR. COCHRAN WILL OBJECT TO, IF I COULD APPROACH THE BENCH.

THE COURT: SURE.

MR. COCHRAN: WHY DOESN'T SHE APPROACH ME FIRST AND TALK ABOUT IT AND SAVE SOME TIME.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: I THINK WE BETTER APPROACH, YOUR HONOR.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: WE ARE AT THE SIDE BAR. MISS CLARK, YOUR NEXT QUESTION IS GOING TO BE WHAT DID KATO SAY TO YOU AFTER HE CLICKED BACK ON CALL WAITING? YOUR ANTICIPATED ANSWER, IT WAS O.J. TELLING ME TO TURN THE ALARM SYSTEM ON.

MS. CLARK: RIGHT, TELLING HIM TO TURN THE ALARM SYSTEM ON WHICH WAS WEIRD BECAUSE HE HAD NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE.

MR. COCHRAN: HEARSAY, HEARSAY, HEARSAY.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT. MR. SHAPIRO WENT INTO SOME EFFORT TO DESCRIBE THE CONDUCT OF O.J. SIMPSON AS BEING TOTALLY COMMON AND USUAL AND NOT OUT OF THE USUAL ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY AND TRIED TO MINIMIZE ANY CONDUCT THAT SEEMED UNUSUAL. KATO INDICATED THAT HE HAD NEVER SET THE ALARM BEFORE, BUT REFUSED TO CHARACTERIZE HIS TRUE FEELING ABOUT IT, WHICH HE DID ADMIT TO THIS WITNESS, WHICH WAS THAT THAT WAS WEIRD.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I BE HEARD? MY LEARNED COLLEAGUE IS POINTING OUT TO ME THAT THIS PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT IS NOT MADE ADMISSIBLE BY THE HEARSAY RULE IF THE STATEMENT IS CONSISTENT WITH HIS TESTIMONY AT THE HEARING IS OFFERED IN COMPLIANCE. IT IS NOT ANY STATEMENT OF KATO KAELIN AND IT IS HEARSAY. IT IS NOT AN EXCEPTION TO THE HEARSAY RULE AND WHAT KATO KAELIN SAYS AT THAT POINT IS HEARSAY. WE HAVE NOT -- AND I THINK THE RECORD IS CLEAR, AS IT WAS MISS CLARK WHO TRIED TO MAKE HIM A HOSTILE WITNESS; NOT US. SHE IS ASKING LEADING QUESTIONS BEFORE AND THEY CONTINUE TO ASK LEADING QUESTIONS, SO NOT REALLY CHANGED. I HAVE TO TELL YOU WHEN WE GET OFF THE RECORD ABOUT THAT, BUT THIS IS HEARSAY.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR -- PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT, YOUR HONOR. MR. KAELIN TESTIFIED THAT HE -- HE REFUSED ACTUALLY TO CHARACTERIZE IT AS STRANGE OR UNUSUAL, ALTHOUGH HE ADMITTED IT NEVER OCCURRED BEFORE, AND UNDER THE GENTLE -- ACTUALLY WITH THE ABSOLUTELY SACCHARINE SWEET CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT HE GOT, CHARACTERIZED IT FURTHER AS BEING NO BIG DEAL. BUT THIS WITNESS WILL TESTIFY THAT HIS ACTUAL REACTION TO IT, THE SPONTANEOUS REACTION TO IT WAS "THAT'S WEIRD" AND IT IS A PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT.

MR. COCHRAN: NO, NO, JUDGE THIS IS HEARSAY.

MS. CLARK: AS SUCH IT IS AN EXCEPTION TO THE HEARSAY RULE.

THE COURT: I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, PROCEED.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: AND AFTER HE CLICKED BACK ON, YOU HAD SOME FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH HIM, DID YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND FOR HOW LONG DID YOU SPEAK TO HIM AFTER HE CLICKED BACK ON?

A: AFTER HE CLICKED BACK OVER?

Q: YES.

A: UMM, NOT VERY LONG. HE --

MR. COCHRAN: SHE HAS ANSWERED. THE QUESTION HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: COMPLETE YOUR ANSWER.

A: JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND THEN HE WENT OUTSIDE.

Q: AND THEN DID HE CALL YOU BACK AGAIN AFTER HE CAME BACK INSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: ABOUT HOW LONG WAS IT THAT YOU SPOKE AFTER HE CALLED YOU BACK THE THIRD TIME?

A: THE THIRD TIME?

Q: RIGHT.

A: UMM, IT WAS FOR A LONG TIME. AN HOUR AND A HALF.

Q: OKAY. ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU HANG UP WITH HIM?

A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME. I WOULD HAVE TO CALCULATE IT AND FIGURE IT OUT. I GUESS -- LET'S SEE. 12:30, 1:00.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: GOOD MORNING, MISS FERRARA.

A: HELLO.

Q: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU JUST A FEW QUESTIONS. WHEN YOU CAME INTO COURT TODAY YOU CAME IN WITH A GENTLEMAN WHO IS SEATED BACK THERE. IS THAT YOUR LAWYER?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU HAVE A LAWYER ALSO, DO YOU?

A: HE IS NOT A CRIMINAL.

Q: BUT HE'S A LAWYER WHO CAME HERE WITH YOU?

A: YES.

Q: HE IS STILL A LAWYER, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY YOU HAVE HAD OCCASION TO SPEAK WITH MISS CLARK, HAVE YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: MISS MARCIA CLARK. ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS WOULD YOU SAY YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO MISS CLARK PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY?

A: I HAVE SPOKEN TO HER TWO TIMES.

Q: AND ON EACH OCCASION WERE YOU BY YOURSELF WHEN YOU TALKED TO HER?

A: THE FIRST TIME I WAS, YES.

Q: AND THE SECOND TIME WHO WAS WITH YOU?

A: MY ATTORNEY.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SAME GENTLEMAN IS HERE?

A: CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HOW LONG HAD YOU KNOWN KATO KAELIN PRIOR TO JUNE 12, 1994?

A: WELL, FOR JUST -- WELL, SINCE MARCH, SO --

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE MARCH OF 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU MET HIM IN CONNECTION WITH THIS MOVIE PRODUCTION WE WERE TALKING ABOUT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME BETWEEN MARCH, 1994, AND JUNE OF 1994, DID A RELATIONSHIP OF SOME KIND DEVELOP BETWEEN YOU AND MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT RELATIONSHIP?

A: WE WERE FRIENDS AND WE WERE DATING.

Q: DATING?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU CAME TO KNOW HIM PRETTY WELL AS OF JUNE 12 OF 1994?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU FIND HIM TO BE A FAIRLY HONEST AND STRAIGHTFORWARD PERSON IN YOUR DEALINGS WITH HIM?

A: DEFINITELY.

Q: DID HE TELL YOU THE TRUTH, AS FAR AS YOU KNEW?

A: AS FAR AS I KNEW.

Q: NOW, YOU BECAME AWARE, AS OF MARCH OF 1994, THAT MR. KAELIN LIVED AT MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT, IN THE GUEST HOUSE?

A: I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS --

Q: YOU BECAME AWARE, AFTER YOU MET HIM IN MARCH OF 1994, THAT MR. KAELIN LIVED AT MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE OR IN HIS GUEST HOUSE, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN FACT BETWEEN THE PERIOD OF MARCH, 1994, AND JUNE 12, 1994, YOU HAD OCCASION TO GO OVER TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU SPENT SOME TIME OVER THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NOT A LOT, BUT YES.

Q: DID YOU SPEND SOME EVENINGS THERE?

A: UMM, ONE OR TWO EVENINGS.

Q: ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS WOULD YOU SAY YOU WENT OVER THERE?

A: I WENT OVER THERE IN THE DAYTIME A FEW TIMES, SO I WOULD SAY FIVE OR SIX.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DURING THAT TIME FRAME?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SOMETIME IN THE DAY AND SOMETIME IN THE EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND DID YOU EVER SEE MR. O.J. SIMPSON DURING ANY OF THESE TIMES THAT YOU WENT OVER THERE?

A: NEVER.

Q: SO THE FIVE OR SIX TIMES YOU WENT OVER THERE BETWEEN MARCH OF 1994 AND JUNE 12 OF 1994 YOU NEVER SAW MR. O.J. SIMPSON, RIGHT?

A: NEVER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. ON THIS PARTICULAR EVENING THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, JUNE 12, 1994, YOU RECALL THAT YOU RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM MR. KAELIN THAT EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT PHONE CALL WAS SOMEWHERE APPROXIMATELY 10:30 P.M., THE FIRST PHONE CALL; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: APPROXIMATELY 10:30.

Q: YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM BY 10:30 THAT EVENING?

A: WE WERE TALKING DURING 10:30, BUT IT WAS BEFORE 10:30.

Q: THE FIRST TIME WAS AT ABOUT WHAT TIME? 10:20?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT 10:30 YOU WERE STILL TALKING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAD SOME PLANS OF POSSIBLY GETTING TOGETHER THAT EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AS IT TURNED OUT YOU DIDN'T GET TOGETHER THAT EVENING, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, THAT EVENING YOU HAD PERHAPS THREE CONVERSATIONS ALTOGETHER; IS THAT CORRECT, THREE TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS?

A: YES, I GUESS YOU PUT IT LIKE THAT.

Q: IT WAS DURING THE FIRST CONVERSATION THAT WHILE TALKING TO MR. KAELIN HE DESCRIBED FOR YOU A BANG ON THE WALL OF HIS RESIDENCE, OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU RECALL HE USED THE TERM "BANG ON THE WALL"; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AT FIRST, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, HE THOUGHT IT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AND BECAUSE YOU WERE WATCHING TELEVISION YOU WERE AWARE AT LEAST THERE WAS NO INDICATION OF AN EARTHQUAKE AT THAT TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: WELL, THAT IS NOT THE ONLY INDICATION, BUT I DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING?

A: RIGHT.

Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY MENTION OF IT EITHER; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: YOU WERE APPROXIMATELY TEN MILES FROM WHERE HE WAS AT THAT POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT IS AN APPROXIMATE. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: YOU WERE IN PALMS SOMEWHERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THIS BANG ON THE WALL THERE CAME A TIME WHEN THAT CONVERSATION, THAT FIRST CONVERSATION TERMINATED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT WHAT TIME THAT FIRST CONVERSATION TERMINATED?

A: AROUND 10:50.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AT THAT POINT YOU EXPECTED THAT MR. KAELIN WOULD CALL BACK AGAIN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, IF YOU CAN HELP US WITH THIS, WHAT TIME DID HE CALL BACK AFTER THE FIRST CONVERSATION? WHAT WAS THE TIME OF THE SECOND CONVERSATION?

A: APPROXIMATELY 11:05.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO PERHAPS FIFTEEN MINUTES LATER HE CALLED BACK; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW OR WERE YOU ABLE TO ASCERTAIN WHETHER OR NOT MR. KAELIN HAD SEEN MR. SIMPSON BETWEEN THE TWO PHONE CALLS, BETWEEN 10:50 AND 11:05? WERE YOU ABLE TO ASCERTAIN THAT?

A: YES.

Q: THAT WAS BASED UPON SOMETHING THAT HE TOLD YOU?

A: CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU DISCUSS WITH MR. KAELIN THAT NIGHT THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS GOING TO CHICAGO ON AN AIRPLANE AT ALL?

A: DISCUSSED?

Q: YEAH. DID YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT THAT?

A: IT WASN'T LIKE A WHOLE TOPIC, DISCUSSED, BUT IT WAS MENTIONED.

Q: I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A TOPIC, BUT DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO MENTION THAT IN THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATION?

A: YES, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WAS THAT IN THE FIRST CONVERSATION OR IN THE SECOND ONE?

A: THAT WAS -- THAT WAS IN THE SECOND.

Q: SECOND CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER HE CAME BACK; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND IN THE SECOND CONVERSATION, HOW LONG DID THAT CONVERSATION LAST?

A: SECOND CONVERSATION? LASTED, OH, APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES.

Q: SO ABOUT 11:15 OR THEREABOUTS?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN AFTER THAT THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME AND THEN YOU HAD A THIRD CONVERSATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. SO IF THE SECOND CONVERSATION ENDED AT ABOUT 11:15 --

A: UH-HUH.

Q: -- CAN YOU HELP US WITH WHEN THE THIRD CONVERSATION BEGAN, WHEN HE CALLED YOU BACK?

A: WHEN IT BEGAN?

Q: YES. WHAT TIME DID YOU START?

A: WELL, PROBABLY -- HE WASN'T OUTSIDE FOR VERY LONG, SO I WOULD SAY TEN MINUTES LATER, SO 11:20 --

Q: SO YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION IS THAT THE THIRD CONVERSATION WOULD HAVE STARTED ABOUT 11:25 OR THEREABOUTS?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. I UNDERSTAND THESE ARE JUST ESTIMATES; IS THAT CORRECT, YOUR BEST ESTIMATES?

A: BEST ESTIMATES, YES.

Q: AND THIS THIRD CONVERSATION WAS THE ONE YOU SHARED WITH US THAT MAY HAVE LASTED UP TO AN HOUR AND A HALF; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: IN THE SECOND CONVERSATION DID MR. KAELIN SAY TO YOU THAT HE HAD SEEN A LIMOUSINE OUTSIDE IN THE DRIVEWAY?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO SEE ANY OF MR. KAELIN'S TESTIMONY DURING THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS OR SO?

A: NO. I HEARD SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

Q: I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.

A: I HAVE HEARD SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

Q: WHERE DID YOU HEAR THE HIGHLIGHTS?

A: FROM FRIENDS.

Q: PEOPLE WHO TOLD YOU THAT THEY HAD SEEN HIM?

A: (NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.)

MS. CLARK: WAS THAT YES?

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WAS THAT YES?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT KATO KAELIN IS A HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

MS. CLARK: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

MR. COCHRAN: FOUNDATIONAL. I'M LEADING TO SOMETHING ELSE. THANK YOU.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: COULD YOU HEAR THAT QUESTION?

A: DO I BELIEVE THAT HE IS AN HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

Q: AN HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

A: BECAUSE HE -- JUST BECAUSE -- BECAUSE I KNOW HIM.

Q: AND YOU STILL CONSIDER YOURSELF A FRIEND NOW?

A: HE IS VERY MORAL.

Q: THIS IS BASED UPON THE TIME YOU HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE MARCH OF 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, YOU HAVEN'T SOLD YOUR STORY TO ANY PUBLICATIONS, HAVE YOU?

A: NO.

Q: HAVE YOU HAD ANY OFFERS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT KIND OF PUBLICATIONS HAVE MADE OFFERS TO YOU?

A: UMM, CURRENT AFFAIR, HARD COPY, AND I HAVEN'T LIKE PURSUED IT, SO IT WAS -- I HAVE BEEN APPROACHED, BUT I HAVEN'T -- YOU KNOW, GLOBE AND --

Q: SOME OF THE TABLOID --

A: RIGHT.

Q: -- MAGAZINES ALSO? AND YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAID AT ALL AT THIS POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NO.

Q: YOU HAVE NOT APPEARED ON ANY OF THOSE SHOWS YET?

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: MISS FERRARA, WHY DO YOU HAVE A LAWYER?

A: WHY DO I HAVE A LAWYER?

Q: RIGHT.

A: FOR A CIVIL SUIT.

Q: WHO ARE YOU SUING?

A: TIME MAGAZINE -- WELL, IT HASN'T BEEN FILED.

Q: BUT YOU ARE PLANNING TO?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHY IS THAT?

A: BECAUSE THEY SAID I LIED.

Q: AND WHAT DID THEY SAY YOU LIED ABOUT?

MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. MAY WE JUST APPROACH FOR AN OFFER OF PROOF? IT MAY BE RELEVANT. I JUST WANT TO APPROACH OR TALK TO MISS CLARK.

THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU CHAT WITH MISS CLARK FIRST.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: WE WORKED IT OUT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU REMEMBER THE QUESTION?

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. WHAT DID THEY SAY YOU LIED ABOUT?

A: MY PRELIMINARY TESTIMONY.

Q: IN WHAT RESPECT?

A: WELL, BASICALLY THEY SAID I LIED ABOUT, UMM -- THEY SAID THAT I SAID THAT KATO TOLD ME THAT HE WENT OUTSIDE AND SAW NO ONE.

Q: WENT OUTSIDE AND SAW NO ONE?

A: RIGHT, DURING THE COURSE WHEN HE WENT OUTSIDE.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS --

A: THE FIRST TIME?

Q: THEY WERE REPORTING YOU HAD SAID THAT KATO TOLD YOU WHEN HE WENT OUT TO INVESTIGATE THE NOISES THERE WAS NO ONE OUTSIDE?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU HAD NEVER SAID THAT?

A: NO.

Q: AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE A LAWYER TODAY?

A: THAT AND MORAL SUPPORT BASICALLY.

Q: OKAY. ARE YOU PAYING HIM?

A: IT IS ON A CONTINGENCY BASIS.

MR. SIGELMAN: YOUR HONOR, SHE IS REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT QUESTIONS CALL FOR PRIVILEGED INFORMATION, SHE DOES RAISE THE PRIVILEGE. MY NAME IS PAUL SIGELMAN AND I REPRESENT MISS FERRARA.

THE COURT: COUNSEL, IF YOU WOULD DROP YOUR CARD OFF WITH THE CLERK BEFORE YOU LEAVE THIS MORNING, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.

MS. CLARK: THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FEE ARRANGEMENT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. YOU INDICATED, MISS FERRARA THAT -- WELL, LET ME ASK YOU ONE FURTHER QUESTION. HAVE YOU TOLD US THE TRUTH TODAY, MISS FERRARA?

A: I'M SORRY.

Q: HAVE YOU TOLD US THE TRUTH TODAY?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU TELL THE TRUTH AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?

A: YES.

Q: YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF MR. KAELIN'S CREDIBILITY, MA'AM, IS THAT BASED ON YOUR INTERACTION WITH HIM?

A: MOSTLY, YES.

Q: OKAY. HOW OFTEN DO YOU SEE HIM CURRENTLY?

A: CURRENTLY? UMM, NEVER. I MEAN HERE, BUT NEVER.

Q: OKAY. YOU RAN INTO HIM HERE IN COURT, DID YOU?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. OTHER THAN THAT --

A: I HAVE SEEN HIM OUT A COUPLE OF TIMES, BUT WE DON'T REALLY TALK VERY MUCH.

Q: AND HOW LONG DID YOU DATE HIM FOR?

A: UMM, I WOULD SAY UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF JULY, SO FROM MARCH -- WELL, ACTUALLY APRIL TO JULY.

Q: OKAY. OF '94?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER JULY DID YOU -- YOU STOPPED DATING HIM?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW OFTEN DID YOU SEE HIM AFTER YOU STOPPED DATING HIM?

A: WE TALK ON THE PHONE MOSTLY BUT NOT VERY OFTEN. IT DEPENDS. SOMETIMES ONCE A WEEK, SOMETIMES A COUPLE TIMES.

Q: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SPOKE TO HIM ON THE PHONE?

A: THE LAST TIME? I TALKED TO HIM BRIEFLY THE OTHER DAY.

Q: OKAY. ABOUT YOUR COURT APPEARANCE?

A: A LITTLE BIT. NO, NOT REALLY. I JUST SAID -- I WAS JUST WISHING HIM LUCK KIND OF.

Q: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME BEFORE THAT?

A: OH, I DON'T KNOW. A WHILE AGO, A COUPLE WEEKS AGO MAYBE.

Q: OKAY. AND PRIOR TO THAT?

A: I DON'T KNOW. I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST GUESSING. INFREQUENTLY.

Q: OKAY. WOULD YOU CONSIDER HIM ONE OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIENDS?

A: A CLOSE FRIEND, YES.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU SEE HIM HOW MANY TIMES -- WELL, SINCE YOU STOPPED DATING HIM IN JULY, WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR CONTACT? TELEPHONE OR IN PERSON?

A: SINCE JULY? MOSTLY TELEPHONE.

Q: OKAY.

A: BUT I HAVE BEEN TOLD NOT TO -- IT IS BETTER THAT I DON'T TALK TO HIM.

Q: SO YOU HAVE STAYED AWAY FROM HIM, HAVE YOU?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THIS CASE, THE OUTCOME OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE?

A: ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THE OUTCOME? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Q: RIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS CASE, YOU ARE GOING TO PURSUE YOUR LAWSUIT AS YOU SEE FIT OR YOUR LAWYER SEES FIT?

A: YES.

Q: TWO SEPARATE THINGS?

A: CORRECT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. YOU HAVE INDICATED TO MR. COCHRAN THAT MANY OF YOUR TIME ESTIMATES ARE APPROXIMATE. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THERE ONE PARTICULAR TIME THAT NIGHT WHEN YOU ABSOLUTELY DETERMINED WHAT TIME IT WAS DURING YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN WAS THAT?

A: 10:30.

Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS HOW LONG BEFORE YOU -- HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE BANG?

A: ABOUT TEN MINUTES BEFORE.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU ARE CERTAIN OF THAT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND WHY IS THAT?

A: UMM, JUST BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH LONGER WE TALKED.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU FOUND OUT IT WAS 10:30, YOU SPECIFICALLY -- WERE YOU SPECIFICALLY --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: HOLD IT. I'M NOT DONE. I'M GOING TO FIX IT.

MR. COCHRAN: IT WAS AIMED IN THAT DIRECTION.

THE COURT: IT WAS.

MR. COCHRAN: SHE WAS EVEN LEANING LEADING.

MS. CLARK: I'M TRYING. I'M TRYING.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU JUST INDICATED TO US YOU WERE CERTAIN OF THE TIME OF 10:30, DID YOU PAY SOME SPECIFIC ATTENTION AT THAT POINT TO WHAT TIME IT WAS?

A: WELL, I WAS AWARE OF IT.

Q: OKAY. YOU DIRECTED -- DID YOU DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT TIME IT WAS AT THAT POINT?

A: AT 10:30?

Q: YES.

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO DETERMINE WHAT TIME IT WAS?

A: I ASKED KATO WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Q: OKAY. SO OTHER THAN THAT TIME OF 10:30 AND THE TEN MINUTES AFTER THAT THAT YOU HAVE JUST INDICATED TO US, ARE YOU CERTAIN OF ANY OF THE OTHER TIMES YOU HAVE MENTIONED OR ARE THOSE APPROXIMATE?

A: WELL, I'M CERTAIN OF THE -- OF THE 11:05.

Q: OKAY.

A: I MEAN, I KNOW IT WAS AFTER -- UMM, YEAH, I WOULD SAY I'M CERTAIN.

Q: WHAT ARE YOU CERTAIN OF?

A: OF THE TIMES.

Q: YES. YOU INDICATED TO MR. COCHRAN THAT YOU WERE -- SOME TIMES WERE APPROXIMATE. OKAY?

A: WELL, I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATE WITHIN A MINUTE. I MEAN, I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, DEAD ON ON THE TIMES, BUT I'M SAYING APPROXIMATE WITHIN A MINUTE OR TWO.

Q: OKAY. SO WHEN YOU SAY 11:05 --

A: WELL, I KNOW THAT BECAUSE HE SAID TEN MINUTES AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I WAS WAITING TEN MINUTES FOR HIM TO CALL BACK WHETHER I SHOULD ACTUALLY GET CONCERNED OR NOT.

Q: OKAY. AND IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES, THOUGH, WASN'T IT?

A: IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES.

Q: PARDON?

A: IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES.

Q: IT WAS HOW LONG?

A: ABOUT FIFTEEN.

Q: OKAY. SO AFTER THE POINT OF 11:05 ARE YOU CERTAIN OF THE TIMES THEN? FOR EXAMPLE, HOW LONG YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM BEFORE HE LEFT THE PHONE AGAIN, OR IS THAT APPROXIMATION?

A: WELL, IT IS APPROXIMATION.

Q: OKAY. YOU INDICATED THAT -- YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WERE PLANNING TO GET TOGETHER THAT NIGHT, BUT YOU DIDN'T?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WHY NOT?

A: BECAUSE -- WELL, BECAUSE THE NOISE HAPPENED OR THE BANG HAPPENED.

Q: AND WAS THAT YOUR DECISION OR HIS?

A: WELL, IF -- IT WAS -- UMM, BOTH OF OURS BECAUSE THAT MEANS THAT I WOULD HAVE TO GO OVER THERE AND THEN WE WOULD GO OUT AND IT WAS MOSTLY -- I WOULD SAY IT WAS MOSTLY HIS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE.

Q: BECAUSE?

A: BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE SHOULD --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: BEYOND THE SCOPE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: ONE LAST QUESTION.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: WAS THERE SOMEONE IN THIS COURTROOM WHO TOLD YOU NOT TO SEE MR. KATO KAELIN?

A: HUM, YES. WELL, IT WAS NOT -- NOT DON'T SEE HIM, BUT YOU PROBABLY SHOULD NOT TALK TO HIM.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THAT WAS SOME ADVICE THAT YOU RECEIVED?

MR. SIGELMAN: YOUR HONOR, I RAISE THE PRIVILEGE AGAIN. PAUL SIGELMAN. IT CALLS FOR COMMUNICATIONS.

MR. COCHRAN: I JUST ASKED SOMEONE IN THE COURTROOM, SO NOW WE KNOW WHO IT IS.

THE WITNESS: WELL, THAT IS NOT TRUE, THOUGH.

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: DID I TELL YOU THAT AS WELL, MISS FERRARA?

A: YES, YOU DID.

Q: TELL YOU DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY AT ALL WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: THAT IS NOT PRIVILEGED.

THE COURT: ANYTHING ELSE?

MR. COCHRAN: NO, NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: ANYTHING ELSE? MISS FERRARA, YOU ARE EXCUSED AS A WITNESS. WE WILL TAKE A FIFTEEN MINUTES RECESS. HAVE YOUR NEXT WITNESS AVAILABLE.

MS. CLARK: I DO.

THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU AND DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. WE WILL TAKE A 15-MINUTE RECESS AND THEN WE WILL RESUME. OKAY. FIFTEEN. (RECESS.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US?

MR. COCHRAN: YES, WE DO HAVE ONE MATTER. MAY WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(PAGES 20504 THROUGH 20507, VOLUME 115A, TRANSCRIBED AND SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. THE PEOPLE MAY CALL THEIR NEXT WITNESS.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE PEOPLE CALL MR. ALLAN PARK.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. PARK, WOULD YOU STEP FORWARD, PLEASE. STEP OVER HERE NEXT TO THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE. FACE THE CLERK.

ALLAN PARK, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?

THE WITNESS: I DO.

THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T YOU LEAN BACK, MR. PARK, AND JUST PULL THE MICROPHONE CLOSE TO YOU. ALL RIGHT.

THE WITNESS: A-L-L-A-N P-A-R-K.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: GOOD MORNING, MR. PARK.

A: GOOD MORNING.

Q: SIR, AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, CAN YOU TELL US WHERE YOU ARE EMPLOYED?

A: UH, I WAS EMPLOYED FOR TOWN AND COUNTRY LIMOUSINE.

Q: LET ME PUSH THAT MICROPHONE A LITTLE CLOSER. TRY AND TALK INTO IT LIKE A TELEPHONE. AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, YOU WERE EMPLOYED WHERE?

A: FOR TOWN AND COUNTRY LIMOUSINE.

Q: AS WHAT, SIR?

A: AS A LIMOUSINE DRIVER.

Q: AND HOW LONG AS OF JUNE THE 12TH HAD YOU BEEN WORKING THERE?

A: UH, IT WAS ABOUT TWO AND A HALF, THREE MONTHS.

Q: WHO WAS THE OWNER OF THAT LIMOUSINE COMPANY, SIR?

A: UH, DALE ST. JOHN.

Q: WAS HE ALSO A NEIGHBOR OF YOURS?

A: UH, YES, HE WAS.

Q: HOW CLOSE DID HE LIVE TO YOU?

A: JUST ACROSS THE STREET.

Q: ON THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, DID YOU HAVE AN ORDER FOR A PICK UP ON THAT DATE FOR THE EVENING TO GO TO THE AIRPORT?

A: UH, YES, I DID.

Q: WHAT WAS YOUR ORDER?

A: UH, MY ORDER WAS TO PICK UP MR. SIMPSON AT 360 ROCKINGHAM.

Q: AT WHAT TIME?

A: UH, 10:45.

Q: 10:45?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU -- WERE YOU MADE AWARE OF WHAT FLIGHT YOU HAD TO GET HIM TO?

A: UH, NOT A FLIGHT NUMBER, BUT JUST TO GET HIM TO LAX, UH, FOR AN 11:45 FLIGHT OUT FROM AMERICAN AIRLINES.

Q: AND WERE YOU AWARE OF WHERE THAT FLIGHT WAS GOING TO?

A: UH, I BELIEVE CHICAGO.

Q: HAD YOU EVER DRIVEN MR. SIMPSON TO THE AIRPORT BEFORE?

A: NO, I HAVEN'T.

Q: OR HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN -- HAD YOU EVER DRIVEN MR. SIMPSON ANYWHERE BEFORE?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, HAD YOU EVER BEEN TO THE BRENTWOOD AREA?

A: UH, NO.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, AT WHAT TIME YOU LEFT TO PICK UP MR. SIMPSON TO TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT ON JUNE THE 12TH?

A: WHAT TIME I LEFT MY PLACE?

Q: YES.

A: UH, IT WAS ABOUT 9:45.

Q: AND THE AREA WAS -- NOT YOUR ADDRESS AT THAT TIME, BUT THE GENERAL AREA YOU WERE LEAVING FROM?

A: UH, TORRANCE.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU LEFT AT 9:45?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU ANTICIPATING IT WOULD TAKE YOU AN HOUR TO GET TO BRENTWOOD FROM THERE?

A: UH, I HAD NO IDEA HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE. I KNEW IT WOULD BE SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.

Q: OKAY. NOW, WERE YOU SCHEDULING YOURSELF TO ARRIVE EXACTLY AT 10:45?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: WHAT TIME WERE YOU SCHEDULED TO ACTUALLY ARRIVE THERE?

A: WELL, THEY LIKE US TO BE THERE 10 MINUTES EARLY.

Q: SO WHAT TIME WERE YOU TRYING TO ARRIVE AT THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE IN BRENTWOOD?

A: 10:35.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU WERE -- WHEN YOU WERE DRIVING TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE, WHAT KIND OF CAR -- WHAT KIND OF LIMOUSINE WERE YOU DRIVING?

A: UH, IT WAS A STRETCH.

Q: A STRETCH LIMOUSINE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

A: IT MEANS IT'S LONG.

Q: LONGER THAN WHAT?

A: LONGER THAN A NORMAL SEDAN. IT'S -- I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT LENGTH OF IT. IT'S -- I THINK IT'S ONLY FIT FOR FOUR TO SIX PASSENGERS. SO IT'S NOT ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, SUPER LONG, BUT IT'S LONGER THAN A NORMAL SEDAN.

Q: HAD YOU EVER DRIVEN A STRETCH LIMOUSINE BEFORE?

A: YES, I HAVE.

Q: DID -- DO YOU -- WHEN YOU -- THE FIRST TIME YOU EVER DROVE IT, DID YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANY PRACTICE OR ANY INSTRUCTION IN HOW TO MANEUVER IT?

A: UH, I NEVER HAD ANY INSTRUCTIONS, NO.

Q: DID YOU PRACTICE ANY WITH IT?

A: WELL, BEFORE I WORKED FOR HIM, I -- I DROVE FOR ANOTHER PERSON FOR A FEW MONTHS. SO I HAD PRACTICE.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU SAID "HIM," YOU MEAN DALE ST. JOHN?

A: YES.

Q: BEFORE YOU WORKED FOR ST. JOHN AT TOWN AND COUNTRY LIMOUSINE, YOU WORKED FOR ANOTHER LIMOUSINE SERVICE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT THAT PRIOR LIMOUSINE SERVICE, HOW LONG HAD YOU WORKED THERE?

A: IT WAS ABOUT THE SAME, TWO AND A HALF, THREE MONTHS.

Q: DID YOU DRIVE STRETCH LIMOUSINES AT THAT EARLIER EMPLOYMENT?

A: IT WAS JUST ONE. IT WAS ONE PRIVATE OWNER. I JUST DROVE HIM AROUND AND NOBODY ELSE.

Q: NOW, IS IT A LITTLE BIT -- IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE IN DRIVING A STRETCH LIMOUSINE THAN IT IS DRIVING A REGULAR SAY CAR THE SIZE OF A LINCOLN CONTINENTAL?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW IS IT DIFFERENT?

A: JUST, YOU NEED TO MAKE YOUR TURNS A LOT WIDER AND DRIVE A LITTLE BIT SLOWER WHEN THERE'S PEOPLE IN THE BACK.

Q: WHY DO YOU DRIVE A LITTLE SLOWER WHEN THERE'S PEOPLE IN BACK?

A: WELL, I DON'T WANT THEM FLYING FROM SIDE TO SIDE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU -- SO WHILE YOU WERE DRIVING, WHAT ROUTE DID YOU TAKE TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE?

A: I TOOK THE 405 FREEWAY NORTH TO SUNSET, MADE A LEFT OFF OF SUNSET GOING WEST TO ROCKINGHAM, I MADE A RIGHT AND HEADED UP ROCKINGHAM TO THE RESIDENCE.

Q: DURING YOUR DRIVE TO THE RESIDENCE, SIR -- IS THAT CAR, THAT LIMO THAT YOU WERE DRIVING THAT NIGHT, THAT STRETCH LIMO, IS IT EQUIPPED WITH A CELL PHONE?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AND IS IT THE KIND OF PHONE THAT IS FIXED IN THE CAR OR CAN YOU REMOVE IT AND TAKE IT AROUND WITH YOU?

A: IT'S FIXED IN THE CAR.

Q: DID YOU RECEIVE ANY PHONE CALLS DURING YOUR TRIP TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: UH, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, I RECEIVED ONE FROM DALE, JUST --

Q: I'M SORRY. DALE ST. JOHN?

A: YES.

Q: THAT WAS YOUR BOSS?

A: YES.

Q: HE CALLED YOU IN THE CAR WHILE YOU WERE EN ROUTE TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU DROVE -- WHEN YOU INDICATED TO US JUST NOW, YOU TURNED RIGHT UP ONTO ROCKINGHAM AND DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM, DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU GOT TO THE LOCATION ON ROCKINGHAM WHERE THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE WAS?

A: UH, IT HAD TO HAVE BEEN AROUND 9:22, 9:23.

Q: 9:22?

A: NO. EXCUSE ME. 10:22, 10:23. I'M SORRY.

Q: NOW, HOW WAS IT THAT YOU -- YOU KNEW WHAT THE ADDRESS WAS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

Q: HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO LOCATE WHICH HOUSE ON ROCKINGHAM WAS THE DEFENDANT'S AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM?

A: THERE WAS ADDRESSES ON -- PAINTED ON THE CURB.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 62-A.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU SEE THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEING SHOWN TO YOU AS PEOPLE'S 62-A, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: CAN YOU INDICATE TO US -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. DID YOU LOCATE THE ADDRESS ON THE CURB THAT BELONGED TO THE DEFENDANT, 360, AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM IN THAT STRETCH LIMO?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU SEE THE LOCATION THAT YOU NOTICED THE ADDRESS IN PAINTED ON THE CURB IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO DIRECT THE ARROW TO THE ADDRESS YOU SAW ON THE CURB ON JUNE THE 12TH. HOW ABOUT A DIFFERENT COLOR? RED? TELL US -- TELL THE ARROW WHERE TO GO, MR. PARK.

A: UH, GO DOWN BEHIND THE BRONCO, BACK UP A LITTLE BIT, UH, UP, THERE YOU GO, RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. COULD YOU PUT A CIRCLE AROUND THAT, JOHN? ALL RIGHT. SO YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THE ADDRESS ON THE CURB THERE?

A: YES.

Q: SO AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT THAT LOCATION, THE ADDRESS ON THE CURB, DID YOU SEE A CAR PARKED IN THAT LOCATION?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: YOU SEE THAT WHITE BRONCO IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THAT WHITE BRONCO THERE AT THE TIME YOU DROVE BY AT ABOUT 10:22?

A: I DIDN'T SEE IT.

Q: AND YOU WERE LOOKING AT THAT CURB; WERE YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU SAW THE ADDRESS ON THE CURB, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: UH, I WAS DRIVING A LITTLE BIT QUICK. SO BY THE TIME I SAW IT, UH, I NOTICED THAT WAS THE HOUSE AND I SHOULD TURN AROUND. AS I GOT A LITTLE BIT FARTHER, UH, I NOTICED ANOTHER SIDE STREET, ASHFORD.

Q: AND HOW FAR WAS THAT SIDE STREET PAST THE LOCATION OF THE CURB WHERE YOU SAW THE ADDRESS?

A: IT'S ABOUT ANOTHER 40, 50 YARDS.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 63.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION THAT YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU TELL US, FIRST OF ALL, WHICH STREET IT IS THAT COMES ACTUALLY DOWN TO THE LEFT-HAND CORNER OF THE SCREEN AS YOU FACE IT?

A: THAT'S ASHFORD.

Q: CAN YOU POINT -- I'LL TELL YOU WHAT. POINT THE -- TELL THE ARROW. WHERE'S ASHFORD? TELL THE ARROW WHERE TO GO.

A: GO DOWN TO THE LEFT. I'M PRETTY -- THAT'S ASHFORD THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. MARK THAT?

MS. CLARK: AND THE PREVIOUS PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, SHOULD BE MARKED --

THE COURT: 62A-1.

MS. CLARK: 62A-1. THANK YOU.

(PEO'S 62A-1 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND IS THAT THE STREET THAT YOU INDICATED WAS THE SIDE STREET THAT YOU SAW?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THAT SIDE STREET, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I TURNED RIGHT AND DROVE DOWN THE STREET A LITTLE WAYS AND MADE A U-TURN AND CAME BACK AND PARKED ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE ALMOST PARALLEL TO THE GATE WITH MY FRONT WINDOW.

Q: ALMOST PARALLEL TO THE ASHFORD GATE?

A: ALMOST, YEAH.

Q: OKAY. CAN YOU -- CAN YOU -- WELL, THERE HAPPENS TO BE A CAR PARKED ON THE NORTH CURB OF -- NORTH CURB OF ASHFORD IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH. DO YOU SEE IT?

A: YES.

Q: WHERE IN RELATION TO WHERE THAT CAR IS IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH DID YOU PARK?

A: SAME SPOT.

Q: OKAY. COULD WE PLEASE MARK THAT AS WELL? WHY DON'T WE CIRCLE THAT CAR. NO, NO, NO. NO, NO, NO. NOT THERE. DIRECT THE ARROW, MR. PARK.

A: TO THE BLACK JEEP OVER THERE IN THE CORNER LOOKS LIKE, DOWN. THERE YOU GO (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. CAN WE CIRCLE THAT? THERE WE GO. THANKS, JOHN.

MS. CLARK: CAN THIS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 63-E?

THE COURT: SO MARKED.

(PEO'S 63-E FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MR. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. YOU MARKED YOUR -- THAT STRETCH LIMO THERE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: UH, I GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WALKED TOWARDS THE BACK AND HAD A CIGARETTE, AND WHEN I WAS DONE, I GOT BACK IN THE CAR AND LISTENED TO THE RADIO A LITTLE BIT.

Q: OKAY. WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU PARKED ON ASHFORD?

A: WHEN I PARKED ON ASHFORD?

Q: YES.

A: IT WAS 10:25.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT DIRECTION WAS THE STRETCH LIMO PARKED IN?

A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FACING WEST.

Q: WOULD IT HAVE BEEN FACING ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

Q: THE STREET ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, SIR, WOULD YOU STEP DOWN, PLEASE.

THE COURT: AND, MISS CLARK, WHICH BOARD IS THIS?

MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR. PEOPLE'S 66.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WOULD YOU MIND USING THE POINTER IF YOU WOULD? THERE'S ONE RIGHT BY YOU OVER THERE ON THE WITNESS STAND. YOU CAN USE THE BIGGER ONE IF YOU WANT. AND PLEASE SHOW US THE ROUTE THAT YOU TOOK AS YOU -- WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION IN BRENTWOOD, YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM. WOULD YOU PLEASE SHOW THE JURY THE DIRECTION YOU DROVE AND HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THE PARK LOCATION YOU'VE INDICATED TO US ON PEOPLE'S 63-E.

A: OKAY. I CAME UP ROCKINGHAM, I SAW THE ADDRESS RIGHT ABOUT HERE (INDICATING), WAS GOING AROUND REALLY QUICK.

Q: WAIT A MINUTE.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS SAID, "SAW THE ADDRESS RIGHT ABOUT HERE," THAT WOULD BE JUST ABOVE THE UPPER BLACK LINE DEFINING THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY.

THE WITNESS: UH, I THEN PROCEEDED UP TO ASHFORD, MADE A RIGHT ON ASHFORD, WAS LOOKING FOR A GOOD PLACE TO TURN AROUND AT, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN DOWN AROUND HERE. THERE WAS ANOTHER DRIVEWAY (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS GESTURED TO AN AREA OF THE BOARD WHICH WOULD BE A CONTINUATION OF ASHFORD STREET.

THE WITNESS: MADE MY U-TURN AND CAME BACK DOWN AND PARKED JUST ABOUT HERE (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: AND FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS, WHEN HE SAID, "PARKED JUST ABOUT HERE," INDICATES A LOCATION THAT'S SLIGHTLY TO THE WEST OF THE ASHFORD GATE OF MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE.

THE COURT: ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE STREET.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: TELL YOU WHAT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE YOU TRACE IT ON THE ELMO AS WELL.

A: UP HERE?

Q: GO AHEAD AND TAKE A SEAT.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. MR. PARK, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU -- I'M GOING TO TAKE THE BOARD DOWN NOW AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO DIRECT THE ARROW TO TRACE THE ROUTE THAT YOU'VE JUST DONE FOR US.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU DIRECT THE CROSS TO TRACE THAT ROUTE SO WE CAN PRESERVE THIS STARTING AT THE BOTTOM. TELL IT.

A: OKAY. I FOLLOWED ROCKINGHAM STRAIGHT UP, SAW THE ADDRESS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE CURB THERE (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. CAN WE MARK THAT LOCATION? DIRECT THE CROSS TO THE LOCATION WHERE YOU SAW THE ADDRESS.

A: WHICH WOULD BE THE NORTHEAST.

Q: DIRECT THE ARROW.

A: RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: CAN WE PUT AN "X" -- NO. WELL, NO, THAT'S FINE. OKAY. CONTINUE.

A: I CONTINUED UP ALL THE WAY TO ASHFORD, MADE A RIGHT-HAND TURN, WENT DOWN THE STREET PAST THE DRIVEWAY. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OFF THE SCREEN, BUT I MADE A U-TURN JUST PAST THAT, UH, LITTLE FARTHER DOWN. JUST PAST THE DRIVEWAY, I PARKED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE STREET, RIGHT ABOUT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. WE CAN PUT THE ARROW GOING -- WHICH WAY WAS YOUR CAR FACING?

A: THE OTHER WAY. IT WAS FACING WEST.

Q: ALL RIGHT. ABOUT THERE (INDICATING)?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IF WE COULD MARK THIS AS PEOPLE'S 66-B.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 66-B.

(PEO'S 66-B FOR ID = DIAGRAM)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THE LOCATION WHERE THE ARROW HAS STOPPED ON ASHFORD STREET, SIR, WHAT TIME WAS IT?

A: IT WAS 10:25.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

A: I LOOKED AT MY WATCH AND THERE'S ALSO A CLOCK ON THE RADIO.

Q: IN THE CAR?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS THE CLOCK IN THE CAR THE SAME TIME AS YOUR WATCH?

A: YEAH, GIVE OR TAKE A MINUTE OR SO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT AFTER YOU PARKED? WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: UH, I GOT OUTSIDE. I WALKED TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE CAR, UH, HAD A CIGARETTE. I GOT BACK INSIDE THE CAR, LISTENED TO THE RADIO FOR A FEW MINUTES AND THEN JUST AT ABOUT 10:39, I PROCEEDED TO DRIVE UP TO THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU SMOKED A CIGARETTE, LISTENED TO THE RADIO AND THEN GOT BACK INSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER YOU GOT BACK INSIDE, DID YOU LOOK AT THE CLOCK AGAIN?

A: YES, I DID. I WANTED TO -- I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I WAS RIGHT ON MY 10 MINUTES EARLY.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU GOT BACK INTO THE CAR AT WHAT TIME?

A: IT WAS AROUND 10:39.

Q: 10:39?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

A: FROM LOOKING AT THE CLOCKS.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: UH, I STARTED THE CAR AND DROVE BACK ONTO ROCKINGHAM, MADE A LEFT AND DROVE UP TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE WITH MY DRIVER'S SIDE WINDOW LOOKING DOWN THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY. UH, IT JUST DIDN'T LOOK TOO EASY TO GET INTO. SO -- SO I BACKED STRAIGHT BACK UP AND, UH, MADE A LEFT ONTO, UH, BACK ONTO ASHFORD AND PULLED UP TO THE ASHFORD GATE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. LET ME BACK UP A SECOND AND SHOW YOU SOME PHOTOGRAPHS.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S 63.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU DROVE DOWN ASHFORD. AND WHICH WAY DID YOU TURN ON ROCKINGHAM?

A: I MADE A LEFT.

Q: AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE DID YOU DO THAT?

A: TO GO BACK TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: WHY DID YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: I DON'T KNOW.

Q: WHY DID YOU WANT TO LOOK IN THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: BECAUSE I WANTED TO DRIVE INTO IT.

Q: OKAY. NOW, WAS THE ROCKINGHAM GATE OPEN OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS CLOSED.

Q: SO SHOWING THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, YOU INDICATED EARLIER THAT YOU WERE IN THE POSITION OF THAT DARK COLORED JEEP ON THE NORTH SIDE OF ASHFORD?

A: YES.

Q: WHICH WAY DID YOU TURN ON ROCKINGHAM?

A: LEFT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. THIS NEXT PHOTOGRAPH HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL, BE PEOPLE'S 146

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 146.

(PEO'S 146 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT STREET IS DEPICTED IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: UH, THAT LOOKS LIKE ROCKINGHAM.

Q: OKAY. AND IS THAT THE LOCATION YOU DROVE DOWN TO GET TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S 62-A.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN THERE?

A: THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, THIS FOLLOWING PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S 147, HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL.

THE COURT: 147.

(PEO'S 147 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: THAT IS ALSO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: NOW, WAS THAT GATE OPEN OR CLOSED WHEN YOU SAW IT?

A: IT WAS CLOSED.

Q: WHEN YOU LOOKED INTO THE -- WERE YOU ABLE TO LOOK THROUGH THE GATE, THROUGH THE BARS?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU PULLED UP TO THAT LOCATION, SIR, YOU WERE DRIVING THAT STRETCH LIMO, CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU PULLED THE -- SO THAT YOU COULD LOOK INTO THE GATE, YOU HAD THE SIDE WINDOW; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE OUT THE SIDE WINDOW?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: WHERE WITH RESPECT TO THE GATE DID YOU PULL TO LOCATE YOUR SIDE WINDOW CLOSE TO THE GATE?

A: UH, I WAS OUT IN THE STREET.

Q: UH-HUH.

A: I NEVER PULLED UP TO THE GATE AT ALL.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DID NOT PULL FACE INTO THE GATE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: HOW DID YOU PULL UP -- WHAT POSITION DID YOU PULL UP TO NEXT TO THE GATE?

A: UH, WOULD HAVE BEEN MY DRIVER'S SIDE WINDOW. I HAD TO LOOK OUT THE LEFT TO LOOK DOWN THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY. AND AS YOU PULLED DOWN ROCKINGHAM THIS TIME GOING SOUTHBOUND ON ROCKINGHAM AND LOOKED INTO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, DID YOU SEE ANY CAR, WHITE BRONCO, PARKED TO THE LEFT OF THE GATE AS YOU FACED IT?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AND WAS THAT LOCATION IN YOUR FIELD OF VIEW AT THE TIME YOU LOOKED INTO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO DO WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH -- WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO DETERMINE WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH THE ROCKINGHAM GATE TO YOUR LEFT?

A: I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE DRIVEWAY AND SEEING HOW EASY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TO PULL INTO THE DRIVEWAY AND IF I CAN EXIT OUT ONTO ASHFORD. UH, JUST THE WAY THE CARS WERE PARKED AND WHERE THE GARAGE WAS, IT DIDN'T LOOK, YOU KNOW, VERY EASY TO MAKE THAT TURN.

Q: OKAY.

A: SO I DECIDED TO BACK UP.

Q: SO DID YOU MAKE A U-TURN OR DID YOU BACK UP?

A: NO. I BACKED STRAIGHT UP.

Q: YOU PUT IT IN REVERSE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU PUT IT IN REVERSE, DID YOU HAVE TO LOOK BEHIND YOU?

A: OF COURSE, YES.

Q: AND DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT SHOULDER YOU LOOKED OVER TO DO THAT?

A: UH, I WOULD HAVE LOOKED OVER MY RIGHT.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU LOOKED OVER YOUR RIGHT SHOULDER, DID YOU SEE ANYTHING BEHIND YOU?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOU BACKED UP TO WHERE?

A: UH, I BACKED UP TO THE ASHFORD STREET.

Q: OKAY. AND WHERE DID YOU GO THEN?

A: UH, MADE ANOTHER LEFT ONTO ASHFORD AND PULLED UP TO THE FRONT GATE.

Q: OKAY. LET'S GO BACK TO 66 ON THE ELMO. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 63, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND AGAIN, SIR, YOU INDICATE -- YOU INDICATED EARLIER THAT THE ASHFORD STREET INTERSECTS WITH ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES, IT DOES.

Q: AND DOES THIS SHOW THE ASHFORD STREET THAT YOU PULLED ONTO?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHICH WAY DID YOU TURN ON ASHFORD?

A: LEFT.

Q: I AM SORRY. WHEN YOU CAME BACK UP ROCKINGHAM, YOU TURNED LEFT ONTO ASHFORD; IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?

A: WHEN I -- WHEN I BACKED STRAIGHT BACK UP?

Q: UH-HUH.

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU BACK ALL THE WAY UP -- ALL THE WAY UP ROCKINGHAM PAST ASHFORD?

A: YEAH. YES.

Q: AND YOU MADE A LEFT ONTO ASHFORD. WAS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?

A: YES.

Q: THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: PULLED -- I PULLED UP TO THE ASHFORD GATE WITH MY BUMPER JUST ABOUT TOUCHING THE -- JUST ABOUT TOUCHING THE GATE AND, UH, TURNED OFF MY LIGHTS. I ONLY HAD MY PARKING LIGHTS ON.

Q: OKAY.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S 64.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 64. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION SHOWN THERE, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT POSITION DID YOU PULL UP TO WITH RESPECT TO THE GATE SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: UH, WITH MY CAR FACING IN FORWARD TOWARDS THE HOUSE WITH THE FRONT BUMPER ALMOST TOUCHING THAT GATE.

Q: OKAY. IS THAT THE ASHFORD GATE THAT WE SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: WHEN YOU PULLED UP TO THE ASHFORD GATE, SIR, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY CARS NEAR THIS GATE?

A: UH, YES. THERE WAS ONE.

Q: AND WHAT CAR DID YOU NOTICE?

A: IT WAS, UH, FROM WHAT I COULD REMEMBER, A BLACK 300ZX.

Q: A BLACK 300ZX?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU SEE ANY CAR IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT APPEARS TO MATCH THE CAR YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED AS HAVING SEEN ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH NEAR THE ASHFORD GATE?

A: YES. THAT RESEMBLES THE ONE I SAW.

Q: OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU DIRECT THE ARROW TO CIRCLE THAT CAR.

A: JUST BEHIND THE PERSON THERE. RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: IS THAT IT?

A: YES.

Q: AND CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER IT WAS IN THAT POSITION ON THE NIGHT YOU SAW IT OF JUNE THE 12TH?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. NOW, CAN YOU DIRECT THE ARROW, PLEASE, TO SHOW US THE LOCATION WHERE YOU WERE PARKED AND TELL THE ARROW WHICH DIRECTION IT SHOULD FACE TO INDICATE THE FRONT OF YOUR LIMO?

A: UH, THE ARROW SHOULD BE POINTING UPWARDS JUST LIKE THAT WITH MY FRONT BUMPER JUST TOUCHING THE GATE. DOWN A LITTLE LOWER. THERE YOU GO (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 64-B, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: 64-B.

(PEO'S 64-B FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU PLEASE TRACE THE ROUTE YOU JUST DESCRIBED TO US, SIR? AFTER YOU PARKED ON ASHFORD, YOU INDICATED YOU GOT BACK IN THE CAR AND DROVE AGAIN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU INDICATED IT WAS WHAT TIME WHEN YOU DID THAT?

A: WHEN I GOT BACK IN THE CAR?

Q: WHEN YOU DROVE -- WHEN YOU BEGAN TO DRIVE AGAIN TO LOOK AT THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

A: THAT WAS AROUND 10:39.

Q: OKAY. PLEASE DIRECT THE POINTER, THE CROSS.

A: UH, GO BACK OUT ONTO ASHFORD -- I MEAN ROCKINGHAM, MAKE A LEFT, ALL THE WAY TO THE DRIVEWAY. I STOPPED THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU INDICATE TO US WHERE YOUR SIDE WINDOW WAS IN RESPECT -- WITH RESPECT TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: IT WAS JUST PARALLEL WITH IT LOOKING STRAIGHT DOWN THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT TIME WAS IT, SIR, WHEN YOU GOT TO -- STRIKE THAT. WHEN YOU WERE -- WHEN YOU LOOKED TO YOUR LEFT TO LOOK UP THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, WERE YOU LOOKING VERY CAREFULLY TO THAT -- IN THAT DIRECTION, SIR?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE ANY CAR -- ANY WHITE BRONCO PARKED TO YOUR LEFT AT -- NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. YOU DID NOT SEE ANY --

A: NO.

Q: -- BRONCO PARKED TO THE NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: THAT'S WHEN I BACKED STRAIGHT BACK UP THOSE SAME TRACES AND --

Q: OKAY. WHY DON'T WE PUT A "1" ON THAT WHITE LINE. ALL RIGHT. AND NOW IN A DIFFERENT COLOR, MAYBE GREEN. OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU DIRECT US HOW -- TO HOW YOU WENT IN REVERSE.

A: UH, STRAIGHT BACK, JUST A LITTLE BIT PAST ASHFORD AND THEN MADE A LEFT, WENT BACK FORWARD (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY.

A: MADE A LEFT.

Q: AND COULD YOU PLEASE DIRECT IT TO SHOW WHERE YOU PARKED?

A: KEEP GOING. MADE A RIGHT ALL THE WAY UP TO THE FRONT GATE (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. AND COULD WE PUT AN ARROW THERE INDICATING YOUR -- THE DIRECTION YOU WERE FACING? IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

Q: OKAY. AND LET'S PUT AN ARROW ON THE WHITE LINE INDICATING THE DIRECTION YOU TOOK. WOULD THAT BE THE FRONT OF YOUR CAR, SIR?

A: WHERE THE GREEN IS?

Q: NO. WHERE THE WHITE ARROW IS. AS YOU GOT -- WHEN YOU GOT TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND IF WE COULD PUT A "2" ON THE GREEN LINE. WHY DON'T YOU PUT IT UP THERE BY ASHFORD. OKAY. GOOD. THANKS, JOHN.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, YOU WANT TO MARK THIS EXHIBIT?

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR, I DO. PEOPLE'S 66-C.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

(PEO'S 66-C FOR ID = DIAGRAM)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU PULLED UP TO THE ASHFORD GATE, SIR, THE LOCATION SHOWN BY THE GREEN ARROW, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT TIME IT WAS?

A: THAT WAS AT 10:40.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

A: BECAUSE I LOOKED AT THE CLOCKS AGAIN.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: I LOOKED AT MY WATCH AND THE CLOCK AGAIN.

Q: AND THE CLOCK?

A: YEAH.

Q: YOU LOOKED AT YOUR CLOCK AND YOUR WATCH A LOT THAT NIGHT.

A: A LOT.

Q: WHY IS THAT?

A: BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE A LIMO DRIVER, YOU'RE SET PRETTY MUCH ON SCHEDULES. SO YOU'RE LOOKING TO SEE IF YOU'RE ON TIME, HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO GET TO THE AIRPORT, THINGS LIKE THAT.

Q: NOW, YOU INDICATED I THINK THAT YOU TURNED OFF YOUR HEAD LIGHTS AND YOU LEFT ONLY YOUR PARKING LIGHTS ON?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AT 10:40?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THAT IS WHEN I GOT OUT OF THE CAR. AND THERE IS AN INTERCOM AT THE GATE, AND I WAS USING THAT INTERCOM TO BUZZ THE HOUSE. AND I BUZZED IT AND THERE WAS NO ANSWER. I PROCEEDED TO BUZZ IT A FEW MORE TIMES. THERE WAS STILL NO ANSWER. SO I, UH -- THAT'S WHEN I DECIDED TO GET BACK IN THE CAR AND, UH, CALL MY BOSS' VOICE MAIL.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU -- WAS IT SOMETHING YOU PRESSED, A BUTTON YOU PRESSED?

A: I THINK IT WAS A BUTTON, YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU PRESSED THAT BUTTON, COULD YOU HEAR A SOUND?

A: YEAH. IT -- IT MADE A RINGING OR A BUZZING NOISE.

Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHETHER IT WAS RINGING OR BUZZING?

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. BUT IT WAS A SOUND.

A: YES.

Q: HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU PRESS THE BUTTON AT 10:40?

A: IT WAS A GOOD TWO OR THREE, FOUR TIMES.

Q: AND DID YOU GET ANY ANSWER?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: SO AFTER YOU PRESSED THE BUZZER TWO OR THREE OR FOUR TIMES AND GOT NO ANSWER, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THAT'S WHEN I STEPPED BACK INTO THE CAR AND, UH, USED THE CELL PHONE TO CALL MY BOSS' VOICE MAIL.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: CAN I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU INDICATED TO US EARLIER, SIR, THAT YOU -- THAT THERE WAS A PHONE IN THAT LIMOUSINE?

A: YES, THERE WAS.

Q: AND YOU JUST INDICATED NOW THAT YOU USED THAT PHONE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHO DID YOU CALL?

A: I CALLED MY -- UH, I WAS TRYING TO GET HOLD OF MY BOSS, DALE ST. JOHN, WHICH IT ENDED UP BEING HIS VOICE MAIL. IT'S HIS BUSINESS LINE.

Q: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU PHONE RECORDS, SIR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A PHOTOCOPY OF A PHONE BILL I'LL BE MARKING --

THE COURT: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER IS 148.

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 148. THANK YOU. I'LL BE MARKING A DIFFERENT COPY OF THIS SAME FOR ACTUAL ADMISSION AT SOME POINT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: BUT FOR NOW, I'LL JUST USE THIS XEROX IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

(PEO'S 148 FOR ID = PHONE BILL)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIR, I'M DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS DOCUMENT IN FRONT OF YOU AND I'M GOING TO BE ASKING YOU A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. DO YOU SEE HERE AN ENTRY FOR JUNE THE 12TH, '94, THE TIME 2205:36?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: FIRST OF ALL, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH MILITARY VERSUS REGULAR TIME?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND 2205:36, WOULD THAT BE 10:05 AND 36 SECONDS P.M.?

A: YES, IT WOULD.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DOES THAT SHOW A PHONE CALL PLACED TO AND FROM A GIVEN NUMBER HERE?

A: YES, IT DOES.

Q: OKAY. THE NUMBER STATED HERE FOR THIS FIRST CALL AT 10:05 ON THIS BILL, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT NUMBER?

A: DO I -- WELL, I DON'T RECOGNIZE IT, NO. I KNOW WHAT IT IS, BUT --

Q: WHAT IS IT?

A: THAT'S -- IT'S THE PHONE NUMBER TO THE LIMOUSINE.

Q: OKAY. THE CAR -- THE PHONE THAT YOU HAD IN YOUR CAR?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DOES THAT REFLECT A CALL THAT CAME INTO YOU AT 10:05?

A: YES.

Q: WHO WOULD THAT BE FROM?

A: THAT WOULD BE FROM DALE ST. JOHN.

Q: YOUR BOSS?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU SEE THEN A CALL AT 1043:44 ON JUNE THE 12TH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PHONE NUMBER TO WHICH THE CALL WAS PLACED?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHOSE PHONE NUMBER IS THAT?

A: THAT IS DALE ST. JOHN'S BUSINESS LINE.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU SAY BUSINESS LINE, YOU EARLIER INDICATED TO US THAT YOU PLACED A PHONE CALL TO HIS PAGER?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT THE SAME AS HIS BUSINESS LINE?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: OKAY. NOW, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION -- OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU PLACED THE CALL TO DALE ST. JOHN'S PAGER, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: UH, I MADE THE CALL AND, UH, I LEFT THE NUMBER THAT, UH -- TO CALL ME BACK, AND AFTER THAT, I GOT BACK OUT OF THE CAR AND PROCEEDED TO RING THE INTERCOM A FEW MORE TIMES.

Q: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING, MR. PARK. WHEN YOU SAY YOU LEFT A NUMBER FOR HIM TO CALL YOU BACK, WHAT NUMBER DID YOU LEAVE? THE NUMBER TO WHAT?

A: ACTUALLY, I THINK I LEFT LIKE 911, BECAUSE I NEVER KNEW THE PHONE NUMBER TO THE -- TO THE LIMOUSINE. I NEVER KNEW WHAT THE -- NEVER KNEW WHAT THE NUMBER TO THE LIMOUSINE PHONE WAS. SO I COULDN'T LEAVE HIM A NUMBER I DIDN'T KNOW. SO I JUST LEFT HIM 911 FIGURING HE'D FIGURE THAT OUT, REALIZE I WAS IN SOME KIND OF TROUBLE.

Q: AND WHAT KIND OF TROUBLE WERE YOU IN THAT YOU LEFT THE 911?

A: UH, THAT NOBODY WAS ANSWERING, THAT I DIDN'T THINK ANYONE WAS HOME. SO I WANTED TO FIND OUT WHAT HIS INSTRUCTIONS WERE FROM THERE TO, UH, FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT WAS AT 10:43, WAS IT, P.M.?

A: YES, IT WAS.

THE COURT: WOULD THIS BE A GOOD POINT? ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE MORNING SESSION. PLEASE REMEMBER ALL MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, ALSO, DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. MR. PARK, I AM GOING TO ORDER YOU TO COME BACK AT 1:30. DO NOT DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE TWO LAWYERS HERE. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A REPORTER HERE FROM THE NORTH HIGH NORTH WIND. YOU ARE NOT TO TALK TO THAT PERSON. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS. 1:30.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I'M SORRY. BEFORE WE LEAVE THE RECORD, MAY I MARK THIS CHART AS PEOPLE'S 149?

THE COURT: 149, NEXT IN ORDER. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

(PEO'S 149 FOR ID = CHART)

(AT 12:00 P.M., THE NOON RECESS WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.)

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, MARCH 28, 1995 1:31 P.M.

DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNSEL. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE RESUME WITH MR. PARK?

MS. CLARK: I DON'T THINK SO.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE ALL BEEN JOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. MR. PARK, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.

ALLAN PARK, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE NOON RECESS, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. PARK.

THE WITNESS: GOOD AFTERNOON.

THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED, SIR, YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. AND MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE WITH YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: MR. PARK, I NOTICE YOU ARE NOT WEARING GLASSES AT THIS MOMENT. ARE YOU WEARING CONTACTS?

A: NO, I'M NOT.

Q: ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH, SIR, WHEN YOU PICKED UP MR. SIMPSON TO TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT, WERE YOU WEARING GLASSES?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: WERE YOU WEARING CONTACTS?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: DO YOU EVER WEAR GLASSES?

A: SOMETIMES.

Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

A: A LOT OF TIMES DRIVING AT NIGHT, JUST SEEING FREEWAY SIGNS FROM A VERY FAR DISTANCE.

Q: SO WHAT DO YOU NEED GLASSES FOR?

A: WHAT DO I -- WHAT DO I NEED THEM FOR?

Q: YES. WHEN DO YOU NEED THEM?

A: FOR SEEING VERY FAR DISTANCES.

Q: AND FOR SEEING WHAT AT A DISTANCE? FOR SEEING OBJECTS?

A: NO, JUST FOR READING STREET SIGNS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. OBJECTS I'M FINE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT IS JUST LITTLE STREET SIGNS, YOU KNOW, SIGNS ARE PRETTY SMALL.

Q: OKAY. AS YOU WERE DRIVING DOWN SUNSET WESTBOUND TOWARD ROCKINGHAM, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE STREET SIGN OF ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: NOW, YOU INDICATED TO US, SIR, THAT WHEN YOU TURNED RIGHT ONTO ROCKINGHAM, WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION, YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE CURBS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT FOR THE PURPOSE OF?

A: LOOKING AT THE ADDRESSES.

Q: OKAY. HAD ANYBODY EVER AT THE GRAND JURY OR THE PRELIMINARY HEARING EVER ASKED YOU HOW YOU LOCATED THE ADDRESS OF MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE?

A: NO, THEY DIDN'T.

Q: AND YOU HAVE TESTIFIED, SIR, BEFORE THE GRAND JURY AND AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING IN THIS MATTER?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU ALSO GAVE AN INTERVIEW TO MR. SHAPIRO ON JUNE THE 14TH, DID YOU NOT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND ON ANY OF THOSE OCCASIONS DID ANYONE ASK YOU HOW YOU LOCATED THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE?

A: NO, THEY DIDN'T.

Q: AND HOW WAS IT THAT IT CAME TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT YOU LOCATED HIS RESIDENCE BY LOOKING AT THE ADDRESSES ON THE CURB OF ROCKINGHAM?

A: WHO POINTED THAT OUT TO ME?

Q: HOW DID IT COME TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT THAT IS HOW YOU LOCATED HIS ADDRESS?

A: WITH A DISCUSSION WITH MY MOM.

Q: AND WHEN YOU BECAME AWARE OF THE FACT THAT YOU HAD BEEN LOOKING AT THE CURBS FOR THE ADDRESSES TO LOCATE MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE, AND THAT THAT IS HOW YOU LOCATED HIS ADDRESS, WHY WAS THAT SIGNIFICANT TO YOU?

A: BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW -- I DIDN'T KNOW -- I WAS LOOKING FOR HIS HOUSE, SO I WAS LOOKING AT ADDRESSES ALONG THE CURB TO FIND OUT WHICH ONE WAS HIS AND THAT WAS THE ONLY SPOT THERE WAS AN ADDRESS. I SAW THEM ALL THE WAY DOWN THE STREET, SO --

Q: OKAY. SO YOU RECALLED THAT YOU SAW THAT ADDRESS?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WERE LOOKING AT THAT CURB?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 62-A.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE CURB AND SAW THE ADDRESS ON THAT NIGHT AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM, YOU INDICATED BEFORE THAT YOU SAW NO WHITE BRONCO?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE -- MAY WE APPROACH? LEADING. IF THIS IS FOUNDATIONAL --

MS. CLARK: IT IS FOUNDATIONAL. HE HAS ALREADY SO TESTIFIED.

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING.

THE COURT: OVERRULED AT THIS POINT. WE ARE BACK TO THE POINT OF COMING UP ROCKINGHAM, CORRECT?

MS. CLARK: RIGHT, RIGHT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PROCEED. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE CURB AND YOU SAW THE ADDRESS ON THAT NIGHT AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM, YOU INDICATED BEFORE THAT YOU DID NOT SEE THE WHITE BRONCO THERE?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECT. ASKED AND ANSWERED THREE OR FOUR TIMES.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR --

Q: YOU CAN ANSWER.

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU SEE ANY CARS PARKED ALONG THE CURB TO THE NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: NORTH OF IT? NO.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND THEN YOU INDICATED AT SOME POINT THAT YOU WERE PARKED ON ASHFORD?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 63.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND THAT YOU AT SOME POINT PARKED FACING IN TOWARDS THE ASHFORD GATE?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, AGAIN, WE WOULD LIKE TO OBJECT. WE COVERED ALL THIS THIS MORNING.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS FOUNDATIONAL TO ANOTHER QUESTION.

MR. COCHRAN: IT HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OVERRULED AT THIS POINT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: DO YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANY -- DID YOU NOTICE ANY CAR, OTHER THAN THE 300ZX THAT YOU MENTIONED?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: THAT IS NEAR THE ASHFORD GATE?

A: YES. NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU RECALL --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 64.

Q: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 64, SIR, WHEN YOU WERE -- DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT IS THAT?

A: THAT IS THE ASHFORD GATE.

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. THIS IS ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: I AGREE. I AGREE. HE HAS IDENTIFIED THIS ALREADY. PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU NOTICE ANY WHITE FORD BRONCO PARKED TO EITHER SIDE OF THAT ASHFORD GATE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU INDICATED WHEN WE BROKE FOR LUNCH THAT YOU HAD PRESSED THE BUZZER A FEW TIMES AND RECEIVED NO ANSWER. WHEN YOU WERE PRESSING THE BUZZER, SIR, CAN YOU INDICATE ON THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHAT POSITION YOU WERE IN?

THE COURT: REFERRING TO PEOPLE'S 64.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE WITNESS: I WAS STANDING FACING THE INTERCOM, WHICH WOULD BE FACING SOUTHEAST DIRECTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. CAN YOU PUT THE ARROW WHERE YOUR POSITION WOULD HAVE BEEN WHERE YOU WOULD BE FACING?

A: STRAIGHT DOWN FROM THERE, DOWN -- RIGHT ABOUT THERE, (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. AND THE ARROW, IS THAT FACING THE DIRECTION YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN FACING?

A: YES. IT IS SOMEWHAT, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE COCKEYED FROM THAT. THERE YOU GO.

Q: OKAY.

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT, WHERE IT IS NOW?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. THANK YOU. COULD THIS BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 64-B --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: 64-C, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: 64-C.

(PEO'S 64-C FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SO WHAT OBJECT WOULD YOU BE FACING WHEN YOU ARE PRESSING THE BUZZER?

A: THAT SEEMS TO BE THAT BIG BEAM, THE BIG CEMENT BEAM.

Q: OKAY.

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER.

Q: PARDON?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER FACING THAT DIRECTION.

Q: AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE RINGING THE BELL, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER YOU COULD SEE ANY LIGHTS ON IN THE HOUSE?

A: THERE WAS ONE LIGHT ON UPSTAIRS.

Q: COULD YOU SEE ANY LIGHTS ON DOWNSTAIRS?

A: NO, I COULDN'T.

Q: DID IT APPEAR TO BE DARK DOWNSTAIRS?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT AS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE ANSWER IS STRICKEN. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW DID IT APPEAR DOWNSTAIRS IN THE HOUSE?

A: IT APPEARED TO BE NO LIGHTS ON.

MS. CLARK: I NEED TO GET THE PHONE RECORD EXHIBIT BACK, YOUR HONOR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED PREVIOUSLY AS PEOPLE'S 148.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: CAN EVERYBODY SEE THIS?

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED BEFORE WE BROKE THAT YOU CALLED YOUR BOSS' PAGER AND THAT WAS AT ABOUT 10:43?

A: YES.

Q: AND AFTER YOU CALLED YOUR BOSS' PAGER, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: WELL, AFTER I PAGED HIM, LIKE I SAID, I GOT BACK OUT OF THE CAR AND CONTINUED TO BUZZ THE INTERCOM A COUPLE MORE TIMES. STILL THERE WAS NO ANSWER, SO I -- THAT IS WHEN I GOT BACK INTO THE CAR AND PLACED ANOTHER PHONE CALL.

Q: OKAY. SO AFTER YOU BUZZED A COUPLE MORE TIMES, GOT NO ANSWER, WHEN YOU GOT INTO THE CAR --

MR. COCHRAN: WE WOULD LIKE TO OBJECT. RESTATING HIS TESTIMONY. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. I'M SORRY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED, SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU CALL YOUR BOSS AGAIN WHEN YOU GOT BACK IN THE CAR?

A: NOT HIM, NO.

Q: WHO DID YOU CALL?

A: I CALLED MY MOM.

Q: WHY?

A: TO GET A PHONE NUMBER FROM HER.

Q: AND WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

A: BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE IF THE PAGE WENT THROUGH SO I WANTED TO TRY HIS HOME PHONE BECAUSE SOMETIMES HE DOESN'T ANSWER HIS BUSINESS PHONE AFTER A CERTAIN -- CERTAIN TIME.

Q: AND WHAT PHONE NUMBER WERE YOU TRYING TO GET FROM YOUR MOTHER?

A: HIS HOME PHONE, HIS HOME PHONE NUMBER.

Q: YOUR BOSS' HOME PHONE NUMBER?

A: YES.

Q: AND LOOK AT THE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, IF YOU WOULD, SIR. DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE NEXT PHONE CALL IN TIME PLACED AT 10:46 AND THIRTY SECONDS. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PHONE NUMBER SHOWN HERE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND WHOSE PHONE NUMBER IS THAT?

A: THAT IS MY FATHER'S, WHICH MY MOM WAS AT.

Q: WHICH IS WHERE YOUR MOM WAS?

A: YEAH.

Q: DID YOU REACH YOUR MOTHER WHEN YOU DIALED THAT PHONE NUMBER?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER, DID YOU?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: DO YOU RECALL EXACTLY HOW LONG THAT PHONE CALL LASTED WHEN YOU SPOKE TO HER?

A: EXACTLY HOW LONG? NO.

Q: ABOUT HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT LASTED?

A: TWO TO THREE MINUTES.

Q: WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO THE PRECISE AMOUNT OF TIME IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT THE PHONE BILL INDICATING THE DURATION OF THE CALL?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. I'M POINTING OUT TO THE WITNESS THE PHONE CALL HE HAS JUST DESCRIBED ON THE BILL AND IT INDICATES UNDER "DURATION" TWO MINUTES 20 SECONDS. DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION, SIR?

A: YES, IT DOES.

Q: IS THAT ABOUT HOW LONG THAT PHONE CALL WAS?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, DID YOU GET SOME INFORMATION FROM YOUR MOTHER?

A: YES, I DID. SHE -- SHE GOT THE PHONE NUMBER FOR ME.

Q: AND AFTER SHE GOT THE PHONE NUMBER FOR YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: AT THAT TIME I DON'T REMEMBER IF I GOT OUT AND BUZZED ONE MORE TIME OR NOT, BUT I KNOW IT WAS JUST A FEW -- JUST A FEW SECONDS AFTER THAT I CALLED -- I CALLED HIS HOUSE.

Q: WHEN YOU SAY "HIS HOUSE," WHO IS THAT?

A: DALE ST. JOHN, MY BOSS.

Q: IS THERE A PHONE CALL INDICATED ON THAT PARTICULAR PHONE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, PEOPLE'S 148, THAT REFLECTS THE CALL MADE TO YOUR BOSS?

A: YES.

Q: AND IS THAT THE CALL PLACED -- DO YOU -- FIRST OF ALL, CAN YOU LOCATE THE PHONE NUMBER, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PHONE NUMBER AS YOUR BOSS' HOME PHONE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WAS THAT CALL PLACED AT 10:49:07?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU CALLED HIM AT 10:49:07, WAS DALE ST. JOHN AT HOME?

A: NO, HE WASN'T.

Q: DID YOU GET ANY ANSWER?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU GET AN ANSWERING MACHINE OR ANYTHING?

A: NOTHING.

Q: NO ANSWER AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: AFTER YOU CALLED YOUR BOSS AT HOME AND GOT NO ANSWER, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: UMM, I STEPPED BACK OUT OF THE CAR AND PROCEEDED TO RING THE BUZZER SOME MORE TIMES, STILL GOT NO ANSWER.

Q: OKAY. HOW MANY MORE TIMES DID YOU RING THE BUZZER AT THAT POINT, SIR?

A: I DON'T KNOW. TWO OR THREE.

Q: TWO OR THREE TIMES?

A: YEAH.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU RANG THE BUZZER AGAIN A COUPLE MORE TIMES AND GOT NO ANSWER, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THE NEXT THING I REMEMBERED WAS HEARING THE CAR PHONE RING INSIDE THE CAR AND GOT BACK IN AND PICKED UP THE PHONE AND IT WAS DALE ST. JOHN.

Q: OKAY. NOW, DO YOU SEE ON THE PHONE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR, A CALL AT 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND YOU INDICATED BEFORE YOU DON'T KNOW THE PHONE NUMBER OF YOUR -- WHAT YOUR LIMO WAS?

A: NO, NEVER CALLED IT.

Q: OKAY. BUT YOU SURMISED EARLIER THAT THAT WAS THE NUMBER INDICATED AT THIS PHONE CALL AT 10:52:17?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS IN THE EVENING, SIR, DID YOU SPEAK TO YOUR BOSS IN THE -- ON THE CAR PHONE IN THE STRETCH LIMO?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHEN YOU GOT OUT TO RING THE BUZZER JUST BEFORE YOU GOT THAT CALL, WAS YOUR DRIVER'S DOOR OPENED OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS OPENED.

Q: AND ON PREVIOUS -- ON THE TWO PREVIOUS OCCASIONS WHEN YOU INDICATED THAT YOU GOT OUT OF THE LIMO TO RING THE BELL, WAS THE DRIVER'S DOOR OPENED OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS OPENED. I LEFT IT OPENED.

Q: WHEN YOU SAT DOWN AT 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS TO SPEAK TO YOUR BOSS, DALE ST. JOHN, DID YOU LEAVE THE CAR -- THE DRIVER'S DOOR OPENED OR CLOSED?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, OPENED.

Q: AS YOU SAT IN THE CAR WERE YOU SEATED -- WHICH WAY WERE YOU FACING?

A: I WAS FACING LOOKING DOWN THE DRIVEWAY TOWARD THE HOUSE.

Q: SO YOU WERE -- WERE YOU FACING IN THROUGH THE GATE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS YOU SPOKE TO DALE ST. JOHN ON THE TELEPHONE, WERE YOU LOOKING AT THE DRIVEWAY AREA?

A: MOST OF THE TIME, YEAH. I MIGHT HAVE LOOKED AT THE DASHBOARD OR SOMETHING HERE OR THERE.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE LIGHTING WAS LIKE IN THE DRIVEWAY AREA THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE?

A: THE LIGHTING? IT WASN'T -- IT WASN'T THAT BRIGHT. IT DIDN'T OFFER MUCH LIGHT AT ALL. I REMEMBER A LIGHT ON THE -- IN THE ENTRANCEWAY BY THE FRONT DOOR, AND FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, I THINK THERE WAS A LIGHT ABOVE THE GARAGE THAT DIDN'T OFFER MUCH LIGHT.

Q: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A DIAGRAM THAT YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY LOOKED AT, PEOPLE'S 66, AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO INDICATE FOR US ON THIS DIAGRAM -- YOU CAN STEP DOWN AND TAKE A POINTER.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

Q: FROM WHERE YOU WERE SEATED, SIR, AT THE ASHFORD GATE, WHAT PART OF THE DRIVEWAY LEADING OUT TO ROCKINGHAM WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE, IF ANY?

A: I WAS ABOUT TO THIS AREA, (INDICATING), JUST AROUND HERE. I WASN'T -- I COULDN'T SEE BEYOND THIS AT ALL.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS IS POINTING TO, IF YOU DREW A DIAGONAL LINE FROM THE NORTH --

THE COURT: WEST.

MS. CLARK: -- WEST CORNER OF THE GARAGE ACROSS THE DRIVEWAY, HE COULDN'T SEE PAST OR DOWN -- COULD HE NOT SEE SOUTH OF THAT POINT. WE ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE ELMO IN A MINUTE.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THE LIGHTING LIKE FOR THE BALANCE OF THE DRIVEWAY THAT YOU COULD SEE?

A: IT WASN'T VERY BRIGHT AT ALL. THERE WAS SOME LIGHTING, BUT IT -- IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T A VERY BRIGHT LIGHT, LIKE I SAID. THE BRIGHTEST LIGHT CAME FROM THIS AREA, (INDICATING).

Q: FROM THE ENTRANCE AREA?

A: UH-HUH.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS WAS INDICATING THE ENTRANCE AREA WHEN HE SAID "THIS AREA."

THE COURT: I ALSO GOT AN "UH-HUH" AS AN ANSWER.

MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY?

THE COURT: I ALSO GOT AN "UH-HUH" AS AN ANSWER.

MS. CLARK: "UH-HUH" FROM THE WITNESS?

THE COURT: YES.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: IS THAT WHAT YOU DID?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: YES? YOU CAN TAKE THE WITNESS STAND, SIR.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, DO WE NEED THE PHONE RECORD --

MS. CLARK: JUST FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE I DO AND THEN --

THE COURT: OKAY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. MR. PARK, IF YOU WOULD, DIRECT THE POINTER AGAIN TO INDICATE WHAT PART OF THE DRIVEWAY -- THAT BOUNDARY LINE THAT YOU INDICATED TO US BEFORE, AFTER WHICH YOU COULDN'T SEE ANYTHING. INDICATE TO US ON THIS -- HAVE THE POINTER DRAW THE LINE TO INDICATE WHAT WAS THE POINT AT WHICH YOUR VISIBILITY ENDED.

A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DOWN, LIKE YOU SAID, AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE GARAGE, AND IF YOU GO IN A DIAGONAL LINE ACROSS TO THE LAWN AREA --

MS. CLARK: I DON'T BELIEVE -- THAT IS NOT WHAT HE --

MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: ERASE THAT, PLEASE. LET HIM DIRECT YOU.

THE WITNESS: SAME SPOT WHERE YOU STARTED, BUT THE LINE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE DIAGONALLY. IT COULD HAVE CURVED MORE TOWARDS THE LAWN. IT WASN'T STRAIGHT ACROSS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IS THAT CORRECT SO FAR?

A: YES, YES.

Q: SHOULD HE KEEP GOING LIKE THAT?

A: YEAH. JUST ABOUT TO THERE, (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU INDICATED THAT THERE WAS SOME LIGHT WHERE? COULD YOU DIRECT --

A: UMM, WHERE THE WORD "ENTRANCE" IS OF THE HOUSE.

Q: YEAH. AND WHERE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE WORD "ENTRANCE"?

A: UMM, JUST ABOUT -- THIS IS HARD TO DO WHEN YOU ARE NOT DOING IT YOURSELF HERE. UMM, JUST ABOUT THAT SQUARE PATIO AREA WOULD BE --

Q: TELL IT WHAT DIRECTION TO GO.

A: THAT WHOLE SQUARE PATIO WOULD BE FROM -- FROM EACH CORNER TO CORNER WOULD BE A CIRCLE AREA I WOULD SAY.

Q: A CIRCLE WITHIN THAT SQUARE?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 66-D, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: 66-D.

(PEO'S 66-D FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AS YOU WERE SEATED IN THE LIMOUSINE SPEAKING TO YOUR BOSS DID YOU -- DID YOU SAY SOMETHING TO YOUR BOSS?

A: