DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(PAGES 20410 THROUGH 20424, VOLUME 115A, TRANSCRIBED AND SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. THE DEFENDANT IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. BAILEY, MR. DOUGLAS. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. COUNSEL, IS THERE ANYTHING WE NEED TO DISCUSSION BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURY?

MR. DOUGLAS: YES, YOUR HONOR, I HAVE ONE MATTER.

THE COURT: GOOD MORNING.

MR. DOUGLAS: WHEN WE VISITED THE ISSUE OF THE PITCHESS MOTION, THE AMENDED PITCHESS MOTION ON DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN, THE REQUEST INCLUDED NOT ONLY STATEMENTS, BUT WHETHER THERE WERE ANY AUDIO CASSETTES, VIDEO CASSETTE RECORDINGS, ET CETERA, OF ANY STATEMENTS THAT MIGHT BE RELEVANT TO ANY OF THE ISSUES THAT THE COURT DID FIND VALUE IN HOLDING AN IN CAMERA HEARING. I HAVE HAD AN OCCASION, YOUR HONOR, AND MY STAFF AS WELL, TO REVIEW A REDACTED DOCUMENT THAT INCLUDED WITNESS STATEMENTS FROM DIFFERENT DISTRICT ATTORNEY NOTES AND IT NOTED IN THAT STATEMENT THAT THE INTERVIEWS WITH THOSE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS WERE IN FACT TAPE-RECORDED. I ASK, YOUR HONOR, THAT WE BE ALLOWED TO RECEIVE AND TO REVIEW COPIES OF THE TAPE-RECORDINGS THAT ARE REFERENCED IN THIS DOCUMENT. IF THE COURT PRELIMINARILY WISHES TO FIRST HAVE THE TAPE-RECORDINGS REDACTED TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THAT WHICH WAS TURNED OVER, WE WOULD HAVE NO OBJECTION; HOWEVER, WE DO THINK THAT WE ARE ENTITLED TO RECEIVE ALSO COPIES OF THE AUDIO CASSETTE TAPES AND I WOULD LIKE TO OBVIATE THE FILING OF A NEW MOTION SIMPLY ASKING FOR THAT AND THAT IS WHY I BRING IT TO THE COURT'S ATTENTION IN THIS FASHION.

THE COURT: LET ME DIRECT THE CLERK TO CONTACT MR. WALSH AND ASK HIM TO MAKE THOSE AVAILABLE. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, BEFORE WE DO THAT, CAN WE HAVE MR. WALSH COME OVER AND INDICATE ON THE RECORD THERE IS AN INTERNAL AFFAIRS INVESTIGATION? THERE ARE CERTAIN PRIVACY RIGHTS THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WOULD HAVE.

THE COURT: THESE ARE TAPE-RECORDINGS OF STATEMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN DISCLOSED TO BOTH SIDES.

MS. CLARK: WE DON'T HAVE THEM.

MS. LEWIS: WE DON'T HAVE THEM.

MS. CLARK: WE DON'T HAVE THEM.

THE COURT: YOU HAVE THE STATEMENTS.

MS. CLARK: NO, I DO NOT. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM.

THE COURT: NO. YOU HAVE ALL RECEIVED -- BOTH SIDES HAVE RECEIVED DOCUMENTS OF THESE.

MS. CLARK: WE HAVE -- NEVER HAVE -- I HAVE NEVER RECEIVED THEM, YOUR HONOR, AND I DID ASK ABOUT THEM.

THE COURT: BOTH SIDES WERE PROVIDED COPIES, COUNSEL, ALSO WITH THE ORDER THAT THEY NOT BE PHOTOCOPIED.

MS. CLARK: I THINK THAT MAY BE PART OF THE PROBLEM. I HAVE IN MY POSSESSION SOME LITTLE NOTES. THEY ARE NOT FULL STATEMENTS, HOWEVER.

THE COURT: NO, THEY ARE NOT.

MS. CLARK: OH, OKAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE THE GIST OF WHAT IS THERE CONCERNING DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

MS. CLARK: I THINK THAT THE QUESTION IS WHETHER A TAPE-RECORDING MADE BY IA IS DISCOVERABLE. WE DON'T HAVE THAT TAPE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE WILL ALSO ASK MR. WALSH IF IT IS AVAILABLE. IF THEY WANT TO CONTEST IT, WE WILL OBVIOUSLY HAVE A THIRD PITCHESS HEARING.

MR. DOUGLAS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

BRIAN KATO KAELIN, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: MR. BRIAN KAELIN IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDERGOING RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. SHAPIRO. GOOD MORNING, MR. KAELIN. YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH, SIR.

THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING. YES, SIR.

THE COURT: AND MR. SHAPIRO.

MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THE COURT: I THINK MR. KAELIN HAS A FULL CUP ALREADY.

THE WITNESS: THANKS.

THE COURT: TWO.

THE WITNESS: GOSH, THANKS.

MR. SHAPIRO: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Q: GOOD MORNING, MR. KAELIN.

A: GOOD MORNING.

Q: I WANT TO JUST TAKE A FEW MOMENTS TO BRIEFLY REVIEW THE YEAR FROM MAY TO MAY OF '93 TO '94 AND TO GO OVER WITH YOU THE TIME THAT MR. SIMPSON SPENT WITH NICOLE AND HIS CHILDREN. ARE YOU AWARE DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME THAT ON THREE OCCASIONS THE FAMILY TRAVELED TOGETHER TO HAWAII?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION?

MS. CLARK: RELEVANCE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: HEARSAY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: OUTSIDE THE SCOPE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. ARE YOU AWARE OF THESE THREE TRIPS?

THE WITNESS: OF TRIPS? I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THEY WENT SOMEWHERE. ONE WAS HAWAII I'M PRETTY SURE. I DON'T KNOW IF ONE WAS MEXICO, BUT I KNOW OF VACATIONS.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: FREQUENT VACATIONS, ESPECIALLY IN FEBRUARY AND MARCH OF '94?

A: THE EXACT DATE, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I'M SURE THERE WERE VACATIONS PROBABLY. THEY SEEMED TO TRAVEL.

Q: WERE THERE VACATIONS TO CABO SAN LUCAS?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THERE A VACATION TO MIAMI?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU SAID THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE VACATION TO HAWAII?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: AND THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN MORE THAT YOU ARE UNAWARE OF?

A: YES.

Q: AND ALSO DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME, IF MR. SIMPSON WAS SPENDING FIVE NIGHTS A WEEK WITH NICOLE AND THE CHILDREN AT BUNDY, YOU WOULD NOT BE AWARE OF THAT, WOULD YOU?

A: I WOULD NOT IF HE WAS THERE. I WOULD ASK, POSSIBLY IF IT WAS MICHELLE OR GIGI, IF O.J. WAS AROUND, SHE MIGHT HAVE SAID "HE IS OVER AT NICOLE'S."

Q: AND WHEN YOU WERE TELLING US THAT ON OCCASIONS YOU WOULD ACTUALLY ONLY OBSERVE MR. SIMPSON WITH HIS CHILDREN FOR A SPECIFIC PERIOD OF TIME, EVEN DURING THOSE VISITS OR TIMES TOGETHER THERE WOULD BE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME THAT YOU MAY NOT BE AWARE OF; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: MR. KAELIN, HAS ANYONE FROM ANY TABLOIDS APPROACHED YOU TO SELL YOUR STORY?

A: YES.

Q: WHO HAS APPROACHED YOU?

A: EVERYONE. EVERY TABLOID.

Q: HOW MUCH MONEY HAVE YOU BEEN OFFERED?

A: A LOT. UMM, CLOSE TO A MILLION, I GUESS.

Q: HAVE YOU ACCEPTED ANY MONEY FROM ANY TABLOIDS FOR YOUR STORY?

A: NO.

Q: HAVE YOU DISCUSSED THE MATTER OF SELLING YOUR STORY IN CONJUNCTION WITH GRANT CRAMER?

A: OF SELLING IT?

Q: SELLING IT OR MAKING IT AVAILABLE OR GETTING PAID FOR YOUR STORY WITH GRANT CRAMER TO A TABLOID?

A: YEAH. I DIDN'T WANT TO SELL A STORY.

Q: ISN'T IT TRUE THAT GRANT CRAMER TRIED TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO SELL THE STORY WITH HIM AND THAT IT WOULD BE WORTH MORE MONEY IF HE HAD YOU --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, HEARSAY.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: -- TOGETHER WITH HIM?

MS. CLARK: HEARSAY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

THE WITNESS: YES.

MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: MR. KAELIN, YOU GOT A LOT OF MONEY FOR YOUR APPEARANCE ON CURRENT AFFAIR, DIDN'T YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, ISN'T IT TRUE, MR. KAELIN, THAT YOU HAVE A BOOK PROPOSAL OUT FOR ABOUT HALF A MILLION DOLLARS RIGHT NOW, DON'T YOU?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DON'T HAVE A BOOK PROPOSAL?

A: NO.

Q: AREN'T YOU REPRESENTED BY THE WILLIAM MORRIS AGENCY TO WRITE A BOOK?

A: NO.

Q: HAVEN'T YOU WRITTEN A BOOK PROPOSAL THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO ST. MARTIN'S FOR PUBLICATION?

A: NO.

Q: YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF ANY CONTRACT FOR HALF A MILLION DOLLARS THAT YOU HAVE SIGNED?

A: I KNOW IT IS OUT THERE, BUT I HAVEN'T DONE THAT.

Q: YOU HAVEN'T SIGNED IT YET?

A: OH, NO. I HEARD A STORY ABOUT THAT. THAT IS NOT TRUE.

Q: YOU DON'T HAVE ANY BOOK PROPOSALS OUT?

A: NO, I DON'T WANT TO DO A BOOK.

Q: DO YOU PLAN TO WRITE A BOOK IN THE FUTURE, MR. KAELIN?

A: AS OF TODAY, NO WAY.

Q: BUT YOU MAY WELL DO THAT IN THE FUTURE, MIGHT YOU?

A: IN THE FUTURE MAYBE.

Q: UH-HUH.

A: BUT RIGHT NOW, NO.

Q: NOT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE AWARE OF A LAW THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM DOING THAT FOR 90 DAYS?

A: I KNOW THERE IS A LAW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE -- OF 90 DAYS OR WHATEVER IT IS, BUT I KNOW THERE IS A LAW ABOUT WRITING SOMETHING.

Q: HOW MANY LAWYERS DO YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW, MR. KAELIN?

A: TWO.

Q: BEFORE JUNE 12 OF 1994 HOW MANY LAWYERS DID YOU HAVE, MR. KAELIN?

A: ZERO.

Q: HOW ARE YOU PAYING THEM, THESE TWO LAWYERS, MR. KAELIN?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS PRIVILEGED MATERIAL.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED, ALTHOUGH HE HAS COUNSEL HERE AND THAT OBJECTION WAS NOT RAISED BY HIM. I WILL ALLOW IT TO STAND AT THIS POINT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW ARE YOU PAYING YOUR LAWYERS, MR. KAELIN?

A: WITH MICHAEL PLOTKIN IT IS A PERCENTAGE OF WORK.

Q: A PERCENTAGE OF WORK?

A: IF WORK COMES HE WILL GET A PERCENTAGE OFF THAT.

Q: SO HE IS REPRESENTING YOU RIGHT NOW ON THE "IF COME," AS THEY SAY? IF YOU MAKE MONEY, HE GETS A PERCENTAGE OF IT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: SOUNDS LIKE HE IS BETTING YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE QUITE A LOT OF MONEY, DOESN'T IT, MR. KAELIN?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: IT IS ARGUMENTATIVE. SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR OTHER LAWYER?

A: BILL GENEGO?

Q: UH-HUH.

A: A GOOD FAITH, I GUESS.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: GOOD FAITH.

Q: GOOD FAITH?

A: HE WAS -- THERE WAS A FEW LAWYERS THAT WERE COMING TO REPRESENT ME AND THEY KEPT COMING OVER AND I GOT IT FROM A FRIEND AND SAID BILL IS A FRIEND AND I SAID, "OKAY," SO I TOOK IT OUT OF MY FRIEND'S WORD THAT HE WAS A GOOD GUY.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU PLAN TO PAY HIM?

A: I DON'T THINK I AM GOING TO PAY HIM.

Q: YOU DON'T THINK YOU ARE EVER GOING TO PAY HIM?

A: I THINK EVENTUALLY, YES, I WILL OWE EVERYTHING.

Q: OUT OF THE MONEY YOU PLAN TO MAKE YOU WILL PAY HIM; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: SOMEHOW IF I MAKE IT. I CAN'T PREDICT WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

Q: UH-HUH. AND HOW LONG HAS HE BEEN REPRESENTING YOU?

A: THE DAY OF THE GRAND JURY.

Q: SINCE JUNE THE 17TH?

A: YES.

Q: AND HAS HE BEEN PRESENT ON EVERY OCCASION WHEN YOU HAVE INTERVIEWED -- BEEN IN MY OFFICE FOR AN INTERVIEW?

A: I THINK HE MISSED ONE; HE HAD SOMEONE ELSE SHOW UP.

Q: HE HAD OTHER LAWYERS COME, DIDN'T HE?

A: YES.

Q: SO HE HAS BEEN PRESENT AT EVERY INTERVIEW OR SENT ON ONE OCCASION A LAWYER IN TO BE WITH YOU DURING YOUR INTERVIEWS WITH ME; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO ME ALONE WITHOUT A LAWYER REPRESENTING YOU, HAVE YOU, MR. KAELIN?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND ON YOUR INTERVIEWS WITH MR. SHAPIRO HE HAS BEEN PRESENT DURING THOSE INTERVIEWS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN FACT ON SOME OCCASIONS HE HAS MET WITH MR. SHAPIRO WITHOUT YOU; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: I WASN'T IN THE ROOM. I WAS IN THE BUILDING, BUT NOT IN THE ROOM TOGETHER.

Q: HE HAS ENGAGED IN NUMEROUS TELEPHONE CALLS ON YOUR BEHALF, HAS HE NOT, MR. KAELIN?

A: UMM, WILLIAM GENEGO?

Q: YES.

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, WOULD IT BE FAIR TO SAY THAT HE SPENT UPWARDS OF 100 TO 200 HOURS WORKING WITH YOU ON YOUR SITUATION?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HOURS. I DON'T THINK IT HAS BEEN THAT MANY HOURS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SINCE JUNE THE 17TH?

A: BUT WE DIDN'T MEET ALL THE TIME. IT WOULD BE HE WOULD CALL TO SEE IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE AN APPOINTMENT AND MEET THE DAY BEFORE AND THEN GO SEE WHOEVER WE WERE GOING TO SEE.

Q: WELL, YOU HAVE MET WITH HIM QUITE A FEW TIMES? MORE TIMES THAN YOU HAVE MET WITH EITHER MYSELF OR MR. SHAPIRO, HAVEN'T YOU?

A: YES.

Q: ARE YOU AWARE OF WHAT HIS HOURLY RATE IS?

A: NO. BILL GENEGO'S? NO, NO IDEA.

Q: AND YOU HAVEN'T PAID HIM ONE DIME YET, HAVE YOU, MR. KAELIN?

A: NO, I HAVEN'T.

Q: YOU HAVEN'T PAID MR. PLOTKIN ONE DIME YET, HAVE YOU?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAVE YOU PAID MR. PLOTKIN?

A: WHATEVER THE PERCENTAGES ARE.

Q: RIGHT, BUT YOU HAVE NOT PAID HIM ANY MONEY AS OF THIS DATE?

A: YES. HE HAS RECEIVED MONEY.

Q: AND HOW MUCH IS THAT?

A: I DON'T KNOW. IT GOES FROM AN AGENT TO HIM.

Q: AND WHAT IS THE PERCENTAGE?

A: FIVE PERCENT.

Q: HOW MUCH HAVE YOU MADE SO FOR SINCE JUNE THE 12TH?

A: ABOUT SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS.

Q: SO FAR MR. PLOTKIN HAS RECEIVED FIVE PERCENT OF THAT?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: AND HE WILL STAND TO RECEIVE FIVE PERCENT OF WHATEVER ELSE YOU PLAN TO DO, WHETHER IT IS A BOOK OR A MOVIE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL OF WHICH MAY HAPPEN AFTER YOU COMPLETE YOUR TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: IT COULD HAPPEN, YES.

Q: BETWEEN MAY OF '93 AND MAY OF '94 HOW OFTEN DID YOU SEE PAULA BARBIERI AT THE ROCKINGHAM HOUSE?

A: NOT VERY OFTEN.

Q: BUT SHE WAS THERE?

A: OH, SHE CAME BY, YES.

Q: SHE SPENT THE NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS DO YOU REMEMBER SEEING HER SPEND THE NIGHT?

A: WELL, I WOULD NEVER SEE HER SPEND THE NIGHT BECAUSE I COULDN'T SEE FROM WHERE I STAY, BUT IF SHE WAS THERE I WOULD SAY I WOULD PROBABLY KNOW IT OF ABOUT THREE TIMES IN THE HOUSE.

Q: THAT IS JUST THE TIME THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT I WOULD ASSUME THAT SHE WAS THERE THAT NIGHT.

Q: THERE MIGHT BE TIMES SHE WAS THERE THAT YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, ON JUNE THE 11TH THE DEFENDANT WENT OUT WITH PAULA TO AN EVENT, DIDN'T HE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, DURING THE EARLY MONTHS OF JANUARY -- OF 1994, HE WAS DATING PAULA BARBIERI, WASN'T HE?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: AND DURING THE -- AT THE END OF THE YEAR OF 1993 HE WAS DATING PAULA BARBIERI, WASN'T HE?

A: '93? I THINK. I THINK SO.

Q: AND ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY -- HAVE YOU HEARD THE NAME TAWNY KITAEN?

A: YES.

Q: WASN'T THAT ANOTHER WOMAN THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS DATING IN THE NINETIES?

A: I THINK THEY DATED. I DON'T KNOW. I WASN'T AROUND, BUT I THINK THEY HAD -- THEY DATED. I'M PRETTY SURE.

Q: THAT WAS BETWEEN THE DATES OF '85 AND '94, WASN'T IT?

A: OF '85 AND '94? YES.

Q: ARE YOU AWARE OF WHEN MR. SIMPSON MARRIED NICOLE BROWN?

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT. THIS IS BEYOND THE SCOPE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW THE DATE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR MEMORY IF I GAVE YOU A DATE?

A: IN THE EIGHTIES I THINK.

Q: AROUND '85?

A: I THINK SO.

Q: SOUND RIGHT?

A: YES.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, YOU INDICATED TO MR. SHAPIRO THAT BETWEEN MAY OF '93 AND MAY OF '94 NICOLE AND MR. SIMPSON WERE ATTEMPTING TO RECONCILE?

A: AT SOME POINT.

Q: BACK AND FORTH DURING THAT WHOLE YEAR; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: IT WAS LIKE A COMMITMENT. THEY WERE GOING TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME WHILE O.J. WAS IN TOWN. I DON'T KNOW THE DATES, BUT I THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH FOOTBALL SEASON, LEAVING FOR THAT, TO SEE IF THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE IT. I THINK IT WAS TO LAST UNTIL AUGUST OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WHENEVER FOOTBALL SEASON WOULD START IN NEW YORK.

Q: SO THERE WAS -- WHAT WAS IT, A PROMISE THAT NICOLE MADE TO ACT LIKE HIS WIFE UNTIL AUGUST OF '94?

MR. SHAPIRO: I'M GOING TO OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION?

MR. SHAPIRO: WELL, IT IS AN ARGUMENTATIVE QUESTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. SHAPIRO: HEARSAY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. SHAPIRO: CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE IT WORK AS A COUPLE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NO, THAT WASN'T MAY QUESTION.

A: SAY IT AGAIN.

Q: WAS THERE AN AGREEMENT THAT NICOLE WOULD BEHAVE AS THOUGH SHE WERE STILL MR. SIMPSON'S WIFE UNTIL AUGUST OF '94 WHEN FOOTBALL SEASON WOULD START?

MR. SHAPIRO: I'M GOING TO OBJECT TO THE FORM -- TO THE QUESTION AS BEING VAGUE "BEHAVE AS IF." I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS THAT TYPE BEHAVIOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, SIR?

THE WITNESS: THAT THEY WERE TOGETHER, THERE WAS GOING TO BE A COMMITMENT TO BE TOGETHER, YES --

MS. CLARK: NO.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, MAY HE FINISH HIS ANSWER?

THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.

MS. CLARK: LET ME ASK --

THE COURT: WHEN I SAY "WAIT," EVERYBODY STOPS TALKING, EXCEPT FOR ME. UNDERSTOOD?

MR. SHAPIRO: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OBVIOUSLY THE QUESTION NEEDS TO BE REPHRASED.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WAS THERE AN AGREEMENT THAT NICOLE MADE WITH MR. SIMPSON NOT TO SEE ANOTHER MAN UNTIL AUGUST OF '94 WHEN HE WOULD LEAVE FOR THE FOOTBALL SEASON?

A: I THINK THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE THAT, TO MAKE IT WORK, SO I THINK THEY HAD AN AGREEMENT -- IT WAS LIKE NO DATING, THEY WERE GOING TO STAY TOGETHER.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT -- I'M SORRY.

A: LIKE THAT, BUT I DON'T KNOW THE DATES. I THINK IT WAS THAT TIME FOR FOOTBALL SEASON, BEFORE.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER IT WAS FOR THE PURPOSE OF MR. SIMPSON'S IMAGE OR THE PURPOSE OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP?

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT. THAT IS SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: BUT DURING THAT TIME PERIOD -- DURING THE PERIOD OF 1994 HE WAS DATING PAULA BARBIERI?

A: YEAH. I THINK THEY DATED, YES.

Q: IN JANUARY WASN'T HE DATING PAULA BARBIERI?

A: I THINK SO.

Q: DON'T YOU RECALL A TRIP WITH HER TO HAWAII BETWEEN '93 AND '94?

A: I DON'T KNOW. IF THEY WENT, THEY WENT. I DIDN'T KNOW IF THEY GO ON TRIPS, BUT THEY PROBABLY DID. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: AND AS A MATTER OF FACT, DO YOU RECALL THAT THERE WAS A TRIP THAT HE TOOK TO PALM SPRINGS WITH PAULA BARBIERI IN JUNE OF 1994?

A: I THINK -- THERE IS A TRIP. I THINK IT WAS MEMORIAL DAY.

Q: MEMORIAL DAY?

A: YES. I THINK IT WAS TO PALM SPRINGS THEN.

Q: THAT WAS THE DEFENDANT AND PAULA BARBIERI TOOK THAT TRIP TOGETHER TO PALM SPRINGS, DIDN'T THEY?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU STATED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT YOU REALLY LIKED BOTH NICOLE AND THE DEFENDANT. DO YOU RECALL STATING THAT?

A: YES.

Q: BUT NICOLE DID NOT GIVE YOU A PLACE TO STAY FOR FREE, DID SHE?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOU TOLD MR. SHAPIRO THAT EVEN THOUGH THE DEFENDANT LET YOU STAY IN THE GUEST UNIT FOR FREE, YOU FELT NO OBLIGATION TO HIM. DO YOU RECALL SAYING THAT?

A: THAT ALTHOUGH I STAYED THERE FREE I FELT NO OBLIGATION TO HIM?

Q: YES. DO YOU RECALL SAYING THAT?

A: I GUESS, YES.

Q: NOW, IN MR. SIMPSON'S -- ON MR. SIMPSON'S ESTATE YOU HAD A ROOM WITH ITS OWN BATHROOM; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: IT HAD ITS OWN OFFICE?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAD ACCESS TO A JACUZZI?

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR --

THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO.

MR. SHAPIRO: -- OBJECTION. THIS HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED SEVERAL TIMES.

THE COURT: I ASSUME THIS IS FOUNDATIONAL FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

MS. CLARK: FOUNDATIONAL. OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU HAD ACCESS TO A JACUZZI?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAD ACCESS TO A SWIMMING POOL?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAD ACCESS TO THE KITCHEN AREA AND THE POOL HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE PAID TO LIVE IN A PLACE LIKE THAT, MR. KAELIN?

A: I PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE LIVED THERE IF THERE WAS A PRICE ON IT.

Q: IF YOU COULD HAVE AFFORDED TO PAY FOR IT, SIR, WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD YOU HAVE PAID FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? A THOUSAND, 1500 A MONTH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

A: OH, IN THAT AREA.

Q: IN THAT AREA?

A: YES.

Q: YOU STAYED THERE FOR AT LEAST SIX MONTHS?

A: YES.

Q: YOU SAVED AT LEAST $6,000 STAYING THERE RENT FREE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: SO THE DEFENDANT SAVED YOU AT LEAST $6,000 BY LETTING YOU STAY THERE WITHOUT PAYING ANY RENT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND HE GOT YOU AN ACTING PART, DIDN'T HE?

A: NO.

Q: DIDN'T YOU TELL US ABOUT THE KUSHNER-LOCKE?

A: I HAD THE AUDITION THROUGH AN AGENT.

Q: HE MADE A PHONE CALL TO HELP YOU, DIDN'T HE?

A: HE MENTIONED TO HIM THAT I KNEW SOMEONE AND I DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME AND HE SAID HE WAS ON THE BOARD THERE AND HE SAID, "I WILL MAKE A CALL."

Q: SO HE HELPED YOU?

A: NO. I HAD THE READING -- I DIDN'T GET THE PART.

Q: HE TRIED TO HELP YOU?

A: YES, HE DID.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SAVED YOU $6,000 IN RENT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU STAYED ON THAT BEAUTIFUL ESTATE, YES?

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAD ACCESS TO A FAMOUS CELEBRITY?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: YES?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT OUT TO SEE YOUR FRIENDS YOU COULD TELL THEM THAT YOU WERE LIVING ON MR. SIMPSON'S ESTATE, COULDN'T YOU?

A: I COULD, BUT I DIDN'T DO THAT.

Q: YOU DIDN'T DO THAT, MR. KAELIN? YOU NEVER TOLD ANYONE YOU LIVED ON MR. SIMPSON'S ESTATE?

A: WELL, SOME PEOPLE KNEW, CLOSE FRIENDS, BUT IT WASN'T --

Q: WITH ALL OF THAT YOU DON'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO HIM; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: YOU DON'T FEEL OBLIGATED TO HIM? IS THAT YOUR TESTIMONY?

A: UMM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN "OBLIGATED"?

Q: DID YOU NEED MR. SHAPIRO TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU, SIR?

MR. SHAPIRO: I'M GOING TO OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS --

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THAT IS ARGUMENTATIVE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT YOU DO NOT FEEL OBLIGATED TO MR. SIMPSON WITH ALL THAT I HAVE -- WE HAVE JUST MENTIONED? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

A: SOMEWHAT, YES, THAT I --

Q: ON JUNE THE 12TH YOU STATED THAT YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE AND YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON AT ABOUT 3:00 P.M.; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: HOW DID YOU HAPPEN TO GO INTO THE HOUSE AT THAT TIME?

A: I THINK AT THAT TIME I WALKED BY AND HE SAID MY NAME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Q: HE INVITED YOU IN?

A: YES.

Q: YOU WOULD NOT GO IN WITHOUT BEING INVITED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU WERE INVITED IN BY MR. SIMPSON AT THREE O'CLOCK IN THE AFTERNOON ON JUNE THE 12TH; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU WERE INVITED IN AGAIN BY HIM AT ABOUT 6:00 OR 6:30 AFTER THE RECITAL; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND AGAIN AT 9:00 P.M., WHEN HE WANTED TO GO OUT TO DINNER, YOU WERE WITH HIM AGAIN AND WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN AGAIN AT 11:00 P.M., WHEN HE WAS GETTING READY TO LEAVE FOR THE LIMO, YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE AGAIN WITH HIM AT THAT TIME, WERE YOU NOT?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: SO ON JUNE THE 12TH YOU WERE IN THE HOUSE WITH MR. SIMPSON AT 3:00, AT 6:00, AT 9:00 AND AT 11:00 P.M.; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: NO, NOT AT 9:00.

Q: YOU WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU WERE WITH HIM ON ALL FOUR OCCASIONS; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OTHER THAN JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994, DID YOU EVER SPEND THAT MUCH TIME WITH MR. SIMPSON OR GO INTO HIS HOUSE ON THOSE -- THAT MANY OCCASIONS?

A: NO.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.)

THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO.

MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR.

FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. SHAPIRO:

Q: MR. KAELIN, REGARDING THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU HAVE SPENT WITH MR. SIMPSON, HAVE YOU BEEN IN THE HOUSE FOR ANY PROLONGED PERIOD OF TIME PRIOR TO JUNE THE 12TH?

A: YES.

Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

A: I WATCHED A FOOTBALL GAME --

Q: HOW LONG DID YOU WATCH A FOOT BALLGAME FOR?

A: THREE, FOUR HOURS.

Q: WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU DONE IN THE HOUSE?

A: WATCHED A MOVIE, HAD CHRISTMAS, BREAKFAST SOMETIMES.

Q: YOU WOULD SAY THAT MR. SIMPSON TREATED YOU IN A VERY KIND AND NICE WAY?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION. THAT IS IRRELEVANT AND IT IS ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. IT IS INNOCUOUS.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND ON THIS OCCASION, AS FAR AS GOING TO MC DONALD'S, I BELIEVE YOU TOLD US THAT YOU INVITED YOURSELF TO GO WITH HIM?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND REGARDING ACCESS TO THE LIVING QUARTERS OF MR. SIMPSON, THAT WASN'T A PLACE THAT YOU HAD FREE ACCESS TO, WAS IT?

A: SAY IT AGAIN.

Q: THE LIVING QUARTERS OF MR. SIMPSON, HIS KITCHEN, HIS DINING ROOM, HIS DEN, WAS THAT A PLACE THAT YOU HAD FREE ACCESS TO OR NOT?

A: NO, I WOULDN'T GO IN WITHOUT BEING INVITED.

Q: REGARDING THE JACUZZI, HOW MANY TIMES WERE YOU IN THE JACUZZI?

A: ONCE.

Q: WOULD YOU SAY YOU DID NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE GENEROSITY OF MR. SIMPSON IN ALLOWING YOU TO STAY IN THE GUEST HOUSE TEMPORARILY?

A: I DID NOT.

Q: REGARDING DATES, ARE YOU PRECISE AS TO DATES OF TIMES MR. SIMPSON SPENT WITH PAULA BARBIERI?

A: NO. I THINK MEMORIAL DAY WAS THE ONE IN PALM SPRINGS, IF I REMEMBER. I'M KIND OF SURE ON THAT ONE. THE EXACT DATES, NO.

Q: WOULD IT BE A FAIR STATEMENT TO SAY THAT YOU NEVER SAW MR. O.J. SIMPSON WITH PAULA BARBIERI PRIOR TO MAY OF 1994?

A: I MIGHT HAVE ONCE, BUT I SAW -- I THINK I FIRST SAW PAULA, LIKE I KNEW ABOUT HER, BUT FIRST MET HER IN APRIL OR MAY, BUT I THINK MAYBE MAY. I'M NOT POSITIVE.

Q: OF '94?

A: OF '94.

Q: AND YOU KNEW THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS GETTING BACK TOGETHER WITH HER, THAT THEY HAD DATED SOMETIME PRIOR?

A: THEY -- THAT HE KNEW HER FROM BEFORE THEY DATED?

Q: YES.

A: YES.

Q: REGARDING THE ISSUE OF YOU GETTING TO HAVE THE PRIVILEGE OF STAYING AS MR. SIMPSON'S GUEST, IT HAS BEEN POINTED OUT BY THE PROSECUTOR THAT THAT MAY HAVE HAD A VALUE OF $6,000. IT MAY HAVE HAD A VALUE GREATER THAN THAT, MIGHT IT NOT?

A: YES.

Q: REGARDLESS OF THE VALUE, WOULD THAT BE ENOUGH TO GET YOU TO LIE IN THIS CASE, SIR?

A: I WILL NOT LIE.

Q: FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY?

A: FOR ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY.

MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. KAELIN, I'M GOING TO EXCUSE YOU AT THIS TIME; HOWEVER, YOU ARE SUBJECT TO RECALL. I'M GOING TO ORDER YOU NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE LAWYERS IN THE CASE AND YOUR OWN ATTORNEY. AND YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO COME BACK TO COURT WITHIN 48 HOURS OF BEING NOTIFIED BY THE COURT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER, SIR?

THE WITNESS: I WILL COME BACK.

THE COURT: WE MAY NEED YOU BACK, I DON'T KNOW YET, BUT YOU ARE STILL SUBJECT TO RECALL.

THE WITNESS: OKAY.

THE COURT: DO YOU UNDERSTAND MY ORDER, SIR?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU ARE EXCUSED FOR TODAY. THE PEOPLE'S NEXT WITNESS.

MS. CLARK: THE PEOPLE CALL MISS RACHEL FERRARA.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR, WITHOUT THE REPORTER?

THE COURT: YES. MISS CLARK, MR. COCHRAN.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, ARE THESE YOUR TRANSCRIPTS UP HERE?

MS. CLARK: NO, I THINK THEY ARE MR. SHAPIRO'S.

THE COURT: LET'S RESCUE THOSE.

MS. CLARK: YES, THEY ARE.

THE COURT: DEPUTY RUSSELL, LET'S RECYCLE OUR MATTERS HERE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, SIR. MISS CLARK, ARE YOU PREPARED TO CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS?

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR, I AM. THANK YOU. THE PEOPLE CALL MISS RACHEL FERRARA.

THE COURT: WAITING FOR MY CLERK.

MS. CLARK: MISSING A CLERK.

THE COURT: HERE SHE IS.

RACHEL FERRARA, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.

THE COURT: JUST SIT BACK, PULL THE MICROPHONE CLOSE TO YOU, PLEASE. THANK YOU. MISS CLARK. I'M SORRY.

THE CLERK: STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES, PLEASE.

THE WITNESS: RACHEL, R-A-C-H-E-L, FERRARA, F-E-R-R-A-R-A.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: LET ME HELP YOU. TALK INTO IT LIKE A TELEPHONE. OKAY.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: OKAY. MISS FERRARA, ARE YOU A FRIEND OF SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF BRIAN KAELIN, ALSO KNOWN AS KATO KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN HIM?

A: I HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE MARCH OF '94.

Q: AND DURING THE TIME THAT YOU KNEW HIM IN 1994, WHERE WAS HE LIVING?

A: IN O.J.'S GUEST HOUSE.

Q: AND WHERE WAS THAT HOUSE?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: WHAT WAS THE ADDRESS OF THAT HOUSE?

A: UMM, 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM.

Q: IN BRENTWOOD?

A: UH-HUH, YES.

Q: AND HAD YOU EVER VISITED HIM AT THAT GUEST HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE?

A: YES.

Q: ON JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994, DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL FROM KATO KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AT APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME?

A: APPROXIMATELY 10:20.

Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU GOT THIS CALL?

A: AT HOME.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: AT HOME.

Q: WITHOUT GIVING US YOUR ADDRESS, WHERE THAT WAS AT THE TIME, TELL US THE GENERAL AREA YOU WERE LIVING IN ON JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994.

A: IT IS WEST L.A., PALMS.

Q: OKAY. ABOUT HOW MANY MILES FROM ROCKINGHAM AND BRENTWOOD WOULD THAT BE?

A: UMM, TEN MILES. THAT IS A GUESS. I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: OKAY. AT 10:20 P.M. WHAT WERE YOU DOING WHEN YOU GOT THAT PHONE CALL FROM MR. KAELIN?

A: I WAS, UMM, WATCHING T.V.; NOT MUCH.

Q: DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU TALK ABOUT?

A: WE TALKED ABOUT --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU DISCUSS WITH HIM A TYPEWRITER?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER THAT DISCUSSION DID YOU HAVE SOME FURTHER DISCUSSION ABOUT ACTIVITIES THAT YOU WERE INVOLVED IN AT THAT TIME PERIOD?

A: A LITTLE BIT, YES.

Q: WERE YOU STUDYING ACTING AT THAT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU AND KATO INVOLVED IN SOME PROJECT TOGETHER OR JOB TOGETHER AT THAT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: A MOVIE WE WERE BOTH WORKING ON.

Q: WERE YOU ACTING IN THAT MOVIE?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU DOING?

A: I WAS A PRODUCTION ASSISTANT.

Q: AND WHAT WAS KATO KAELIN DOING?

A: HE WAS DOING A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING. HE WAS DOING SOME EXTRAS CASTING AND HE WAS AN ASSISTANT TO ONE OF THE PRODUCERS AND HE WAS -- HE HAD A PART, BUT -- WELL, THEY CUT IT OUT, BUT HE HAD A PART.

Q: HE HAD A PART BUT THEY CUT IT OUT?

A: YES.

Q: SO OTHER THAN THAT, WHAT KIND OF DUTIES WAS HE PERFORMING? GOFER?

A: A LITTLE BIT, YES. WELL, HE WAS AN ASSISTANT TO A PRODUCER, SO I GUESS THEY MAKE YOU DO PROBABLY ABOUT ANYTHING THEY CAN, SO --

Q: ABOUT ANYTHING, WHICH WOULD BE?

A: UMM, RUNNING ERRANDS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE TAKING PEOPLE TO LUNCH, UMM, JUST HANDLING THEIR AFFAIRS BASICALLY. IT DEPENDS.

Q: NOW, DID KATO TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHAT HE HAD DONE EARLIER THAT EVENING?

A: SOMEWHAT, YES.

Q: DID HE TALK TO YOU ABOUT GOING TO MC DONALD'S WITH MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATION DID YOU HAPPEN TO ASK KATO KAELIN WHAT TIME IT WAS?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU HAPPEN TO RECALL THAT?

A: BECAUSE WE WERE GOING TO GO OUT AND DO SOMETHING AND I ASKED HIM -- I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF IT WAS TOO LATE AND HE SAID -- SO I ASKED HIM WHAT TIME IT WAS AND HE SAID 10:30.

Q: NOW, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO GO OUT WITH HIM THAT NIGHT, WERE YOU?

A: YES. WELL, I DON'T KNOW OUT, BUT --

Q: GET TOGETHER?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO AFTER HE TOLD YOU IT WAS 10:30, AT SOME POINT AFTER THAT DID SOMETHING UNUSUAL OCCUR DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATION WITH HIM?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT WAS THAT?

A: WELL, HE DESCRIBED IT AS AN EARTHQUAKE. UMM, HE SAID THERE WAS A BANG ON HIS WALL.

Q: OKAY. AND ABOUT HOW LONG AFTER YOU HAD ASKED THE TIME AND HE TOLD YOU IT WAS 10:30 DID HE DESCRIBE AN EARTHQUAKE OCCURRING?

A: AFTER 10:30?

Q: RIGHT. YOU ASKED HIM WHAT TIME IT WAS; HE SAID 10:30, CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AT SOME POINT AFTER THAT HE DESCRIBED AN EARTHQUAKE OCCURRING?

A: UH-HUH.

Q: HOW LONG AFTER THAT TIME WHEN HE SAID IT WAS 10:30 DID HE DESCRIBE HEARING AN EARTHQUAKE?

A: APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES.

Q: AND HOW DID HE DESCRIBE THAT EARTHQUAKE SOUND?

A: HE SAID IT WAS A BANG.

Q: AND WHEN HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT, HOW DID HE SOUND?

A: HE SOUNDED CONFUSED AND STARTLED AND CONCERNED.

Q: DID HE SOUND SCARED?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID HE INDICATE TO YOU IN ANY WAY THAT HE WAS -- HOW DID HE INDICATE TO YOU THAT HE WAS CONCERNED?

A: WELL, BECAUSE WE TRIED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IT WAS AND HE SAID, "WAS THERE AN EARTHQUAKE?" AND I HAD THE T.V. ON SO I SAID "NO" -- FOR ONE THING, I DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING AND ALSO BECAUSE THEY USUALLY REPORT IT RIGHT AWAY, SOME SORT OF INDICATION, AND UMM, JUST BECAUSE HE KEPT REFERRING BACK TO IT IN THE CONVERSATION.

Q: OKAY. AFTER HE --

A: AND IT ALSO KNOCKED HIS PICTURE.

Q: HE SAID IT MOVED THE PICTURE ON HIS WALL?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AFTER HE -- AFTER YOU SAID "NO," IT WAS NOT AN EARTHQUAKE --

A: YES.

Q: -- DID HE INDICATE SOME CONCERN TO YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT CONCERN WAS THAT?

A: WE THOUGHT MAYBE SOMEBODY WAS OUTSIDE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU CONTINUED TO TALK TO HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE AFTER THAT, DID YOU?

A: YES.

Q: ABOUT HOW LONG?

A: APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES OR SO.

Q: OKAY. DURING THAT TEN MINUTES THAT YOU CONTINUED TO TALK TO HIM DID THE SUBJECT OF THAT BANG COME UP AGAIN?

A: YES.

Q: HOW MANY TIMES?

A: OH, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES. I JUST KNOW THAT IT CAME UP AGAIN.

Q: OKAY. WHAT DID HE TELL YOU WITH RESPECT TO WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR. HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID HE INDICATE TO YOU WHAT, IF ANYTHING, HE WAS GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT, THAT BANG?

A: WELL, AT THE --

MR. COCHRAN: SHOULD BE ANSWERED YES OR NO. DID HE TELL YOU WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO?

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NEXT QUESTION. THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID HE TELL YOU HE WAS GOING TO DO?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: 1236, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT?

MS. CLARK: SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT, 1241 AND 1240, CONTEMPORANEOUS, AND 1236, PRIOR CONSISTENT.

MR. COCHRAN: CAN I BE HEARD ON 1236 AND 1241?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WITH THE COURT REPORTER.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

MR. COCHRAN: I WAS GOING TO SAY 352 SO THAT WE CAN CUT OUT ALL THAT STUFF.

MS. CLARK: THAT IS THE ONLY ONE YOU KNOW.

THE COURT: WE ARE AT THE SIDE BAR. HEARSAY IS THE OBJECTION.

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE AN OFFER OF PROOF. THIS MAY FALL INTO THE CATEGORY OF WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER, ABOUT SO WHAT, BUT I NEED TO KNOW WHERE WE ARE GOING.

MS. CLARK: NOW, YOU WANT HIM TO SAY INNOCUOUS TO ME, HUM? EXCUSE ME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: THE OFFER OF PROOF IS THAT SHE WILL SAY, AS A PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT OF KATO, THAT HE INTENDED TO GO OUT AND CHECK ON THE SOURCE OF THE NOISE.

MR. COCHRAN: STILL HEARSAY. I MEAN, THE QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T -- SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE DID. SHE IS ON THE PHONE.

MS. CLARK: DOESN'T MATTER. IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT IS A PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT OF KATO'S.

THE COURT: BUT IS THERE AN INCONSISTENT STATEMENT ANYWHERE?

MR. COCHRAN: WHERE IS THE INCONSISTENT STATEMENT? THAT IS WHAT HE SAID.

THE COURT: IS THERE ANY DISPUTE THAT AFTER FINISHING HE WENT OUTSIDE?

MS. CLARK: BUT THIS GOES TO THE GENERAL CREDIBILITY OF THE REACTION THAT HE HAD TO --

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, LET ME JUST SEE IF WE CAN SAVE SOME TIME. IN ORDER FOR A PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT TO COME IN THERE HAS TO BE A PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT THAT IT IS IN CONTROVERSY WITH.

MS. CLARK: UH-HUH.

THE COURT: WHICH IS WHY YOU GET TO BRING IT IN.

MS. CLARK: RIGHT.

THE COURT: BUT HE HAS NOT SAID PREVIOUSLY --

MS. CLARK: BUT THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SPECIFICALLY ON THAT PARTICULAR POINT THAT YOU BRING IT IN. HIS CREDIBILITY IN GENERAL IS UNDER ATTACK, BY ME.

MR. COCHRAN: LET'S GET THAT RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: BY ME, AS WELL AS BY COUNSEL, IN VARIOUS DIFFERENT ASPECTS. SINCE HIS CREDIBILITY IS UNDER ATTACK AND THIS IS ONE OF THE CRITICAL FACTS IN THE CASE, HIS CREDIBILITY IS IN ISSUE WITH RESPECT TO EVERYTHING HE HAS TESTIFIED TO. COUNSEL, IF THEY ARE WILLING TO STIPULATE THAT HE SPOKE -- THAT HE WAS VERY UPSET BY THE SOUND, THE BANG ON THE WALL, THAT AS A RESULT HE DETERMINED THAT HE HAD TO GO OUT TO THE SOUTH PATHWAY TO CHECK IT OUT AND HE SO ADVISED MISS FERRARA, FINE.

THE COURT: HERE IS THE INTERESTING THING, THOUGH. SHE HAS ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT NOT ONLY SHE WAS CONCERNED, NOT ONLY WAS HE, KATO KAELIN CONCERNED, BUT SHE TESTIFIED I WAS CONCERNED THAT THERE WAS SOMEBODY OUTSIDE. SHE SAID, "WE WERE WORRIED THERE WAS SOMEBODY OUTSIDE." SO YOU HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN ALL THIS STUFF IN. I HAVE TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION BECAUSE THERE IS NO INCONSISTENT STATEMENT.

MS. CLARK: WHAT ABOUT -- I'M NOT DONE. I'VE GOT ANOTHER ONE. WHAT ABOUT 1241?

MR. COCHRAN: YOU DON'T HAVE TO APOLOGIZE.

THE COURT: HOLD ON.

MS. CLARK: WHAT ABOUT 1241, YOUR HONOR, THE STATEMENT OF SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT UNDER PEOPLE VERSUS ACALDE, EVIDENCE SECTION CODE 1241, EVIDENCE OF FUTURE ACT PREMISED UPON A CURRENT EVENT. AND I BELIEVE IT IS ADMISSIBLE UNDER THAT THEORY AS WELL, SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT.

THE COURT: I HAVE TO TELL YOU I THINK WE ARE WASTING A LOT OF TIME ON THIS BECAUSE IT REALLY IS INNOCUOUS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THERE IS A DISPUTE THAT AFTER FINISHING TALKING TO HER HE GOES OUTSIDE.

MS. CLARK: IF IT IS NOT A BIG ISSUE, THEN WHY DON'T WE OVERRULE THE OBJECTION AND LET HER CONTINUE TO TESTIFY?

MR. COCHRAN: WE WASTE TIME.

MS. CLARK: WE ARE WASTING MUCH MORE TIME ARGUING.

MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS YOUR WITNESS.

THE COURT: AT THIS POINT I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU CONTINUED TO SPEAK FOR TEN MINUTES AFTER THE BANGS OCCURRED ON THE WALL?

MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMES A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. COCHRAN: BANGS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, BANG ON THE WALL. OKAY. AFTER THE BANG ON THE WALL. AND AT SOME POINT DID MR. KAELIN INDICATE TO YOU HE WANTED TO TERMINATE THE CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND WERE YOU EXPECTING, AT THE TIME HE TERMINATED THE CONVERSATION, TO HEAR BACK FROM HIM AGAIN?

A: YES.

Q: DID HE TELL YOU TO EXPECT TO HEAR BACK FROM HIM AGAIN?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION AS HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AFTER YOU HUNG UP FROM HIM DID YOU LEAVE YOUR APARTMENT?

A: NO.

Q: WHY DIDN'T YOU LEAVE YOUR APARTMENT?

A: BECAUSE I DIDN'T PLAN ON LEAVING.

Q: OKAY. WERE YOU WAITING FOR HIM TO CALL BACK?

A: YES.

Q: AND IF YOU DID NOT -- WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO IF YOU DID NOT HEAR BACK FROM HIM?

A: WELL, HE SAID BEFORE HE HUNG UP --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTED TO, YOUR HONOR. HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WELL, THAT IS NONRESPONSIVE TO THAT QUESTION.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE COURT: THE QUESTION WAS WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO IF YOU DID NOT HEAR BACK TO HIM.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE COURT: THAT IS WHY I SUSTAINED THE OBJECTION, BECAUSE THE ANSWER WAS NONRESPONSIVE.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: DID HE GIVE YOU SOME INSTRUCTION JUST BEFORE HANGING UP WITH YOU AFTER HEARING THE BANG?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT INSTRUCTION?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: NOT FOR THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT?

MS. CLARK: AND SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PROCEED. OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: GO AHEAD.

A: COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION?

Q: YES. JUST BEFORE HE HUNG UP WITH YOU DID HE GIVE YOU SOME INSTRUCTION?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: HE SAID IF HE DOESN'T CALL BACK IN TEN MINUTES TO CALL THE POLICE.

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER HE WAS JOKING OR SERIOUS?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT WAS HIS TONE OF VOICE WHEN HE TOLD YOU THAT?

A: IT WAS -- I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER HIS TONE OF VOICE. IT WASN'T URGENT.

Q: WERE YOU CONCERNED?

A: NOT AT THE MOMENT, NOT AS MUCH.

Q: DID HE INDICATE AT ANY POINT THAT HE WANTED TO GO OUT AND FIND OUT WHAT CAUSED THE NOISE?

A: YES.

Q: AND ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU HUNG UP?

A: APPROXIMATELY 10:50.

Q: DID YOU EVER HEAR BACK FROM MR. KAELIN THAT NIGHT AFTER YOU HUNG UP AT 10:50?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT TIME WAS IT APPROXIMATELY WHEN YOU HEARD BACK FROM HIM?

A: I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATELY 11:05, FIVE AFTER 11:00.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: FIVE AFTER 11:00.

Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM ABOUT WHAT OCCURRED AFTER HE HUNG UP WITH YOU AT 10:50?

A: YES.

Q: DID HE DESCRIBE ANY ENCOUNTER HE HAD HAD WITH MR. SIMPSON?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. DURING YOUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN WHEN YOU RESUMED YOUR CONVERSATION AFTER 11:00 OR 11:05, DID SOMETHING INTERRUPT YOUR TELEPHONE CALL WITH HIM?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW -- APPROXIMATELY HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN SPEAKING, IF YOU REMEMBER, AT THE POINT THAT THAT PHONE CALL WAS INTERRUPTED?

A: APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES.

Q: ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE FEATURE ON TELEPHONES CALLED CALL WAITING?

A: YES.

Q: SO ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT OCCURS WHEN SOMEONE CALLS WHILE YOU ARE ON THE LINE IF YOU HAVE CALL WAITING?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT IS THAT?

A: THE -- IT CLICKS OR BEEPS OR -- ACTUALLY IT CLICKS.

Q: OKAY. AND DURING YOUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN AFTER 11:00 P.M., AFTER YOU HAD BEEN SPEAKING TO HIM FOR A WHILE, DID SOMETHING INTERRUPT YOUR CALL?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: CALL WAITING ON HIS LINE.

Q: ON HIS LINE.

Q: AND DID HE CLICK OFF ONTO THE OTHER LINE?

A: YES.

Q: DID HE COME BACK TO YOU AFTER THAT?

MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION THAT I KNOW THAT MR. COCHRAN WILL OBJECT TO, IF I COULD APPROACH THE BENCH.

THE COURT: SURE.

MR. COCHRAN: WHY DOESN'T SHE APPROACH ME FIRST AND TALK ABOUT IT AND SAVE SOME TIME.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: I THINK WE BETTER APPROACH, YOUR HONOR.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: WE ARE AT THE SIDE BAR. MISS CLARK, YOUR NEXT QUESTION IS GOING TO BE WHAT DID KATO SAY TO YOU AFTER HE CLICKED BACK ON CALL WAITING? YOUR ANTICIPATED ANSWER, IT WAS O.J. TELLING ME TO TURN THE ALARM SYSTEM ON.

MS. CLARK: RIGHT, TELLING HIM TO TURN THE ALARM SYSTEM ON WHICH WAS WEIRD BECAUSE HE HAD NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE.

MR. COCHRAN: HEARSAY, HEARSAY, HEARSAY.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT. MR. SHAPIRO WENT INTO SOME EFFORT TO DESCRIBE THE CONDUCT OF O.J. SIMPSON AS BEING TOTALLY COMMON AND USUAL AND NOT OUT OF THE USUAL ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY AND TRIED TO MINIMIZE ANY CONDUCT THAT SEEMED UNUSUAL. KATO INDICATED THAT HE HAD NEVER SET THE ALARM BEFORE, BUT REFUSED TO CHARACTERIZE HIS TRUE FEELING ABOUT IT, WHICH HE DID ADMIT TO THIS WITNESS, WHICH WAS THAT THAT WAS WEIRD.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I BE HEARD? MY LEARNED COLLEAGUE IS POINTING OUT TO ME THAT THIS PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT IS NOT MADE ADMISSIBLE BY THE HEARSAY RULE IF THE STATEMENT IS CONSISTENT WITH HIS TESTIMONY AT THE HEARING IS OFFERED IN COMPLIANCE. IT IS NOT ANY STATEMENT OF KATO KAELIN AND IT IS HEARSAY. IT IS NOT AN EXCEPTION TO THE HEARSAY RULE AND WHAT KATO KAELIN SAYS AT THAT POINT IS HEARSAY. WE HAVE NOT -- AND I THINK THE RECORD IS CLEAR, AS IT WAS MISS CLARK WHO TRIED TO MAKE HIM A HOSTILE WITNESS; NOT US. SHE IS ASKING LEADING QUESTIONS BEFORE AND THEY CONTINUE TO ASK LEADING QUESTIONS, SO NOT REALLY CHANGED. I HAVE TO TELL YOU WHEN WE GET OFF THE RECORD ABOUT THAT, BUT THIS IS HEARSAY.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR -- PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT, YOUR HONOR. MR. KAELIN TESTIFIED THAT HE -- HE REFUSED ACTUALLY TO CHARACTERIZE IT AS STRANGE OR UNUSUAL, ALTHOUGH HE ADMITTED IT NEVER OCCURRED BEFORE, AND UNDER THE GENTLE -- ACTUALLY WITH THE ABSOLUTELY SACCHARINE SWEET CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT HE GOT, CHARACTERIZED IT FURTHER AS BEING NO BIG DEAL. BUT THIS WITNESS WILL TESTIFY THAT HIS ACTUAL REACTION TO IT, THE SPONTANEOUS REACTION TO IT WAS "THAT'S WEIRD" AND IT IS A PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT.

MR. COCHRAN: NO, NO, JUDGE THIS IS HEARSAY.

MS. CLARK: AS SUCH IT IS AN EXCEPTION TO THE HEARSAY RULE.

THE COURT: I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, PROCEED.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: AND AFTER HE CLICKED BACK ON, YOU HAD SOME FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH HIM, DID YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND FOR HOW LONG DID YOU SPEAK TO HIM AFTER HE CLICKED BACK ON?

A: AFTER HE CLICKED BACK OVER?

Q: YES.

A: UMM, NOT VERY LONG. HE --

MR. COCHRAN: SHE HAS ANSWERED. THE QUESTION HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: COMPLETE YOUR ANSWER.

A: JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND THEN HE WENT OUTSIDE.

Q: AND THEN DID HE CALL YOU BACK AGAIN AFTER HE CAME BACK INSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: ABOUT HOW LONG WAS IT THAT YOU SPOKE AFTER HE CALLED YOU BACK THE THIRD TIME?

A: THE THIRD TIME?

Q: RIGHT.

A: UMM, IT WAS FOR A LONG TIME. AN HOUR AND A HALF.

Q: OKAY. ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU HANG UP WITH HIM?

A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME. I WOULD HAVE TO CALCULATE IT AND FIGURE IT OUT. I GUESS -- LET'S SEE. 12:30, 1:00.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: GOOD MORNING, MISS FERRARA.

A: HELLO.

Q: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU JUST A FEW QUESTIONS. WHEN YOU CAME INTO COURT TODAY YOU CAME IN WITH A GENTLEMAN WHO IS SEATED BACK THERE. IS THAT YOUR LAWYER?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU HAVE A LAWYER ALSO, DO YOU?

A: HE IS NOT A CRIMINAL.

Q: BUT HE'S A LAWYER WHO CAME HERE WITH YOU?

A: YES.

Q: HE IS STILL A LAWYER, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY YOU HAVE HAD OCCASION TO SPEAK WITH MISS CLARK, HAVE YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: MISS MARCIA CLARK. ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS WOULD YOU SAY YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO MISS CLARK PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY?

A: I HAVE SPOKEN TO HER TWO TIMES.

Q: AND ON EACH OCCASION WERE YOU BY YOURSELF WHEN YOU TALKED TO HER?

A: THE FIRST TIME I WAS, YES.

Q: AND THE SECOND TIME WHO WAS WITH YOU?

A: MY ATTORNEY.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SAME GENTLEMAN IS HERE?

A: CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HOW LONG HAD YOU KNOWN KATO KAELIN PRIOR TO JUNE 12, 1994?

A: WELL, FOR JUST -- WELL, SINCE MARCH, SO --

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE MARCH OF 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU MET HIM IN CONNECTION WITH THIS MOVIE PRODUCTION WE WERE TALKING ABOUT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME BETWEEN MARCH, 1994, AND JUNE OF 1994, DID A RELATIONSHIP OF SOME KIND DEVELOP BETWEEN YOU AND MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT RELATIONSHIP?

A: WE WERE FRIENDS AND WE WERE DATING.

Q: DATING?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU CAME TO KNOW HIM PRETTY WELL AS OF JUNE 12 OF 1994?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU FIND HIM TO BE A FAIRLY HONEST AND STRAIGHTFORWARD PERSON IN YOUR DEALINGS WITH HIM?

A: DEFINITELY.

Q: DID HE TELL YOU THE TRUTH, AS FAR AS YOU KNEW?

A: AS FAR AS I KNEW.

Q: NOW, YOU BECAME AWARE, AS OF MARCH OF 1994, THAT MR. KAELIN LIVED AT MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT, IN THE GUEST HOUSE?

A: I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS --

Q: YOU BECAME AWARE, AFTER YOU MET HIM IN MARCH OF 1994, THAT MR. KAELIN LIVED AT MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE OR IN HIS GUEST HOUSE, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN FACT BETWEEN THE PERIOD OF MARCH, 1994, AND JUNE 12, 1994, YOU HAD OCCASION TO GO OVER TO THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU SPENT SOME TIME OVER THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NOT A LOT, BUT YES.

Q: DID YOU SPEND SOME EVENINGS THERE?

A: UMM, ONE OR TWO EVENINGS.

Q: ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS WOULD YOU SAY YOU WENT OVER THERE?

A: I WENT OVER THERE IN THE DAYTIME A FEW TIMES, SO I WOULD SAY FIVE OR SIX.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DURING THAT TIME FRAME?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SOMETIME IN THE DAY AND SOMETIME IN THE EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND DID YOU EVER SEE MR. O.J. SIMPSON DURING ANY OF THESE TIMES THAT YOU WENT OVER THERE?

A: NEVER.

Q: SO THE FIVE OR SIX TIMES YOU WENT OVER THERE BETWEEN MARCH OF 1994 AND JUNE 12 OF 1994 YOU NEVER SAW MR. O.J. SIMPSON, RIGHT?

A: NEVER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. ON THIS PARTICULAR EVENING THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, JUNE 12, 1994, YOU RECALL THAT YOU RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM MR. KAELIN THAT EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT PHONE CALL WAS SOMEWHERE APPROXIMATELY 10:30 P.M., THE FIRST PHONE CALL; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: APPROXIMATELY 10:30.

Q: YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM BY 10:30 THAT EVENING?

A: WE WERE TALKING DURING 10:30, BUT IT WAS BEFORE 10:30.

Q: THE FIRST TIME WAS AT ABOUT WHAT TIME? 10:20?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT 10:30 YOU WERE STILL TALKING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAD SOME PLANS OF POSSIBLY GETTING TOGETHER THAT EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AS IT TURNED OUT YOU DIDN'T GET TOGETHER THAT EVENING, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, THAT EVENING YOU HAD PERHAPS THREE CONVERSATIONS ALTOGETHER; IS THAT CORRECT, THREE TELEPHONE CONVERSATIONS?

A: YES, I GUESS YOU PUT IT LIKE THAT.

Q: IT WAS DURING THE FIRST CONVERSATION THAT WHILE TALKING TO MR. KAELIN HE DESCRIBED FOR YOU A BANG ON THE WALL OF HIS RESIDENCE, OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU RECALL HE USED THE TERM "BANG ON THE WALL"; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AT FIRST, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, HE THOUGHT IT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AND BECAUSE YOU WERE WATCHING TELEVISION YOU WERE AWARE AT LEAST THERE WAS NO INDICATION OF AN EARTHQUAKE AT THAT TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: WELL, THAT IS NOT THE ONLY INDICATION, BUT I DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU DIDN'T FEEL ANYTHING?

A: RIGHT.

Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY MENTION OF IT EITHER; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: YOU WERE APPROXIMATELY TEN MILES FROM WHERE HE WAS AT THAT POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT IS AN APPROXIMATE. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: YOU WERE IN PALMS SOMEWHERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THIS BANG ON THE WALL THERE CAME A TIME WHEN THAT CONVERSATION, THAT FIRST CONVERSATION TERMINATED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT WHAT TIME THAT FIRST CONVERSATION TERMINATED?

A: AROUND 10:50.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AT THAT POINT YOU EXPECTED THAT MR. KAELIN WOULD CALL BACK AGAIN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, IF YOU CAN HELP US WITH THIS, WHAT TIME DID HE CALL BACK AFTER THE FIRST CONVERSATION? WHAT WAS THE TIME OF THE SECOND CONVERSATION?

A: APPROXIMATELY 11:05.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO PERHAPS FIFTEEN MINUTES LATER HE CALLED BACK; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW OR WERE YOU ABLE TO ASCERTAIN WHETHER OR NOT MR. KAELIN HAD SEEN MR. SIMPSON BETWEEN THE TWO PHONE CALLS, BETWEEN 10:50 AND 11:05? WERE YOU ABLE TO ASCERTAIN THAT?

A: YES.

Q: THAT WAS BASED UPON SOMETHING THAT HE TOLD YOU?

A: CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU DISCUSS WITH MR. KAELIN THAT NIGHT THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS GOING TO CHICAGO ON AN AIRPLANE AT ALL?

A: DISCUSSED?

Q: YEAH. DID YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT THAT?

A: IT WASN'T LIKE A WHOLE TOPIC, DISCUSSED, BUT IT WAS MENTIONED.

Q: I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT A TOPIC, BUT DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO MENTION THAT IN THE COURSE OF YOUR CONVERSATION?

A: YES, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WAS THAT IN THE FIRST CONVERSATION OR IN THE SECOND ONE?

A: THAT WAS -- THAT WAS IN THE SECOND.

Q: SECOND CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER HE CAME BACK; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND IN THE SECOND CONVERSATION, HOW LONG DID THAT CONVERSATION LAST?

A: SECOND CONVERSATION? LASTED, OH, APPROXIMATELY TEN MINUTES.

Q: SO ABOUT 11:15 OR THEREABOUTS?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN AFTER THAT THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME AND THEN YOU HAD A THIRD CONVERSATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. SO IF THE SECOND CONVERSATION ENDED AT ABOUT 11:15 --

A: UH-HUH.

Q: -- CAN YOU HELP US WITH WHEN THE THIRD CONVERSATION BEGAN, WHEN HE CALLED YOU BACK?

A: WHEN IT BEGAN?

Q: YES. WHAT TIME DID YOU START?

A: WELL, PROBABLY -- HE WASN'T OUTSIDE FOR VERY LONG, SO I WOULD SAY TEN MINUTES LATER, SO 11:20 --

Q: SO YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION IS THAT THE THIRD CONVERSATION WOULD HAVE STARTED ABOUT 11:25 OR THEREABOUTS?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. I UNDERSTAND THESE ARE JUST ESTIMATES; IS THAT CORRECT, YOUR BEST ESTIMATES?

A: BEST ESTIMATES, YES.

Q: AND THIS THIRD CONVERSATION WAS THE ONE YOU SHARED WITH US THAT MAY HAVE LASTED UP TO AN HOUR AND A HALF; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: IN THE SECOND CONVERSATION DID MR. KAELIN SAY TO YOU THAT HE HAD SEEN A LIMOUSINE OUTSIDE IN THE DRIVEWAY?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO SEE ANY OF MR. KAELIN'S TESTIMONY DURING THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS OR SO?

A: NO. I HEARD SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

Q: I COULDN'T HEAR YOU.

A: I HAVE HEARD SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

Q: WHERE DID YOU HEAR THE HIGHLIGHTS?

A: FROM FRIENDS.

Q: PEOPLE WHO TOLD YOU THAT THEY HAD SEEN HIM?

A: (NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.)

MS. CLARK: WAS THAT YES?

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WAS THAT YES?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT KATO KAELIN IS A HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

MS. CLARK: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

MR. COCHRAN: FOUNDATIONAL. I'M LEADING TO SOMETHING ELSE. THANK YOU.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: COULD YOU HEAR THAT QUESTION?

A: DO I BELIEVE THAT HE IS AN HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

Q: AN HONEST AND CREDIBLE PERSON?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

A: BECAUSE HE -- JUST BECAUSE -- BECAUSE I KNOW HIM.

Q: AND YOU STILL CONSIDER YOURSELF A FRIEND NOW?

A: HE IS VERY MORAL.

Q: THIS IS BASED UPON THE TIME YOU HAVE KNOWN HIM SINCE MARCH OF 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, YOU HAVEN'T SOLD YOUR STORY TO ANY PUBLICATIONS, HAVE YOU?

A: NO.

Q: HAVE YOU HAD ANY OFFERS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT KIND OF PUBLICATIONS HAVE MADE OFFERS TO YOU?

A: UMM, CURRENT AFFAIR, HARD COPY, AND I HAVEN'T LIKE PURSUED IT, SO IT WAS -- I HAVE BEEN APPROACHED, BUT I HAVEN'T -- YOU KNOW, GLOBE AND --

Q: SOME OF THE TABLOID --

A: RIGHT.

Q: -- MAGAZINES ALSO? AND YOU HAVE NOT BEEN PAID AT ALL AT THIS POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NO.

Q: YOU HAVE NOT APPEARED ON ANY OF THOSE SHOWS YET?

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: MISS FERRARA, WHY DO YOU HAVE A LAWYER?

A: WHY DO I HAVE A LAWYER?

Q: RIGHT.

A: FOR A CIVIL SUIT.

Q: WHO ARE YOU SUING?

A: TIME MAGAZINE -- WELL, IT HASN'T BEEN FILED.

Q: BUT YOU ARE PLANNING TO?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHY IS THAT?

A: BECAUSE THEY SAID I LIED.

Q: AND WHAT DID THEY SAY YOU LIED ABOUT?

MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. MAY WE JUST APPROACH FOR AN OFFER OF PROOF? IT MAY BE RELEVANT. I JUST WANT TO APPROACH OR TALK TO MISS CLARK.

THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU CHAT WITH MISS CLARK FIRST.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: WE WORKED IT OUT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU REMEMBER THE QUESTION?

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. WHAT DID THEY SAY YOU LIED ABOUT?

A: MY PRELIMINARY TESTIMONY.

Q: IN WHAT RESPECT?

A: WELL, BASICALLY THEY SAID I LIED ABOUT, UMM -- THEY SAID THAT I SAID THAT KATO TOLD ME THAT HE WENT OUTSIDE AND SAW NO ONE.

Q: WENT OUTSIDE AND SAW NO ONE?

A: RIGHT, DURING THE COURSE WHEN HE WENT OUTSIDE.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS --

A: THE FIRST TIME?

Q: THEY WERE REPORTING YOU HAD SAID THAT KATO TOLD YOU WHEN HE WENT OUT TO INVESTIGATE THE NOISES THERE WAS NO ONE OUTSIDE?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU HAD NEVER SAID THAT?

A: NO.

Q: AND THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE A LAWYER TODAY?

A: THAT AND MORAL SUPPORT BASICALLY.

Q: OKAY. ARE YOU PAYING HIM?

A: IT IS ON A CONTINGENCY BASIS.

MR. SIGELMAN: YOUR HONOR, SHE IS REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL, AND TO THE EXTENT THAT QUESTIONS CALL FOR PRIVILEGED INFORMATION, SHE DOES RAISE THE PRIVILEGE. MY NAME IS PAUL SIGELMAN AND I REPRESENT MISS FERRARA.

THE COURT: COUNSEL, IF YOU WOULD DROP YOUR CARD OFF WITH THE CLERK BEFORE YOU LEAVE THIS MORNING, I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.

MS. CLARK: THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FEE ARRANGEMENT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. YOU INDICATED, MISS FERRARA THAT -- WELL, LET ME ASK YOU ONE FURTHER QUESTION. HAVE YOU TOLD US THE TRUTH TODAY, MISS FERRARA?

A: I'M SORRY.

Q: HAVE YOU TOLD US THE TRUTH TODAY?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU TELL THE TRUTH AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?

A: YES.

Q: YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF MR. KAELIN'S CREDIBILITY, MA'AM, IS THAT BASED ON YOUR INTERACTION WITH HIM?

A: MOSTLY, YES.

Q: OKAY. HOW OFTEN DO YOU SEE HIM CURRENTLY?

A: CURRENTLY? UMM, NEVER. I MEAN HERE, BUT NEVER.

Q: OKAY. YOU RAN INTO HIM HERE IN COURT, DID YOU?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. OTHER THAN THAT --

A: I HAVE SEEN HIM OUT A COUPLE OF TIMES, BUT WE DON'T REALLY TALK VERY MUCH.

Q: AND HOW LONG DID YOU DATE HIM FOR?

A: UMM, I WOULD SAY UNTIL THE BEGINNING OF JULY, SO FROM MARCH -- WELL, ACTUALLY APRIL TO JULY.

Q: OKAY. OF '94?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER JULY DID YOU -- YOU STOPPED DATING HIM?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW OFTEN DID YOU SEE HIM AFTER YOU STOPPED DATING HIM?

A: WE TALK ON THE PHONE MOSTLY BUT NOT VERY OFTEN. IT DEPENDS. SOMETIMES ONCE A WEEK, SOMETIMES A COUPLE TIMES.

Q: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SPOKE TO HIM ON THE PHONE?

A: THE LAST TIME? I TALKED TO HIM BRIEFLY THE OTHER DAY.

Q: OKAY. ABOUT YOUR COURT APPEARANCE?

A: A LITTLE BIT. NO, NOT REALLY. I JUST SAID -- I WAS JUST WISHING HIM LUCK KIND OF.

Q: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME BEFORE THAT?

A: OH, I DON'T KNOW. A WHILE AGO, A COUPLE WEEKS AGO MAYBE.

Q: OKAY. AND PRIOR TO THAT?

A: I DON'T KNOW. I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST GUESSING. INFREQUENTLY.

Q: OKAY. WOULD YOU CONSIDER HIM ONE OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIENDS?

A: A CLOSE FRIEND, YES.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU SEE HIM HOW MANY TIMES -- WELL, SINCE YOU STOPPED DATING HIM IN JULY, WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR CONTACT? TELEPHONE OR IN PERSON?

A: SINCE JULY? MOSTLY TELEPHONE.

Q: OKAY.

A: BUT I HAVE BEEN TOLD NOT TO -- IT IS BETTER THAT I DON'T TALK TO HIM.

Q: SO YOU HAVE STAYED AWAY FROM HIM, HAVE YOU?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THIS CASE, THE OUTCOME OF THIS PARTICULAR CASE?

A: ANY FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THE OUTCOME? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Q: RIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS WITH THIS CASE, YOU ARE GOING TO PURSUE YOUR LAWSUIT AS YOU SEE FIT OR YOUR LAWYER SEES FIT?

A: YES.

Q: TWO SEPARATE THINGS?

A: CORRECT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. YOU HAVE INDICATED TO MR. COCHRAN THAT MANY OF YOUR TIME ESTIMATES ARE APPROXIMATE. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THERE ONE PARTICULAR TIME THAT NIGHT WHEN YOU ABSOLUTELY DETERMINED WHAT TIME IT WAS DURING YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN WAS THAT?

A: 10:30.

Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS HOW LONG BEFORE YOU -- HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THE BANG?

A: ABOUT TEN MINUTES BEFORE.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU ARE CERTAIN OF THAT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND WHY IS THAT?

A: UMM, JUST BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH LONGER WE TALKED.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU FOUND OUT IT WAS 10:30, YOU SPECIFICALLY -- WERE YOU SPECIFICALLY --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: HOLD IT. I'M NOT DONE. I'M GOING TO FIX IT.

MR. COCHRAN: IT WAS AIMED IN THAT DIRECTION.

THE COURT: IT WAS.

MR. COCHRAN: SHE WAS EVEN LEANING LEADING.

MS. CLARK: I'M TRYING. I'M TRYING.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU JUST INDICATED TO US YOU WERE CERTAIN OF THE TIME OF 10:30, DID YOU PAY SOME SPECIFIC ATTENTION AT THAT POINT TO WHAT TIME IT WAS?

A: WELL, I WAS AWARE OF IT.

Q: OKAY. YOU DIRECTED -- DID YOU DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT TIME IT WAS AT THAT POINT?

A: AT 10:30?

Q: YES.

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO TO DETERMINE WHAT TIME IT WAS?

A: I ASKED KATO WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Q: OKAY. SO OTHER THAN THAT TIME OF 10:30 AND THE TEN MINUTES AFTER THAT THAT YOU HAVE JUST INDICATED TO US, ARE YOU CERTAIN OF ANY OF THE OTHER TIMES YOU HAVE MENTIONED OR ARE THOSE APPROXIMATE?

A: WELL, I'M CERTAIN OF THE -- OF THE 11:05.

Q: OKAY.

A: I MEAN, I KNOW IT WAS AFTER -- UMM, YEAH, I WOULD SAY I'M CERTAIN.

Q: WHAT ARE YOU CERTAIN OF?

A: OF THE TIMES.

Q: YES. YOU INDICATED TO MR. COCHRAN THAT YOU WERE -- SOME TIMES WERE APPROXIMATE. OKAY?

A: WELL, I WOULD SAY APPROXIMATE WITHIN A MINUTE. I MEAN, I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, DEAD ON ON THE TIMES, BUT I'M SAYING APPROXIMATE WITHIN A MINUTE OR TWO.

Q: OKAY. SO WHEN YOU SAY 11:05 --

A: WELL, I KNOW THAT BECAUSE HE SAID TEN MINUTES AND THEN, YOU KNOW, I WAS WAITING TEN MINUTES FOR HIM TO CALL BACK WHETHER I SHOULD ACTUALLY GET CONCERNED OR NOT.

Q: OKAY. AND IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES, THOUGH, WASN'T IT?

A: IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES.

Q: PARDON?

A: IT WAS MORE THAN TEN MINUTES.

Q: IT WAS HOW LONG?

A: ABOUT FIFTEEN.

Q: OKAY. SO AFTER THE POINT OF 11:05 ARE YOU CERTAIN OF THE TIMES THEN? FOR EXAMPLE, HOW LONG YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM BEFORE HE LEFT THE PHONE AGAIN, OR IS THAT APPROXIMATION?

A: WELL, IT IS APPROXIMATION.

Q: OKAY. YOU INDICATED THAT -- YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WERE PLANNING TO GET TOGETHER THAT NIGHT, BUT YOU DIDN'T?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WHY NOT?

A: BECAUSE -- WELL, BECAUSE THE NOISE HAPPENED OR THE BANG HAPPENED.

Q: AND WAS THAT YOUR DECISION OR HIS?

A: WELL, IF -- IT WAS -- UMM, BOTH OF OURS BECAUSE THAT MEANS THAT I WOULD HAVE TO GO OVER THERE AND THEN WE WOULD GO OUT AND IT WAS MOSTLY -- I WOULD SAY IT WAS MOSTLY HIS BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE.

Q: BECAUSE?

A: BECAUSE HE THOUGHT HE SHOULD --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: BEYOND THE SCOPE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: ONE LAST QUESTION.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: WAS THERE SOMEONE IN THIS COURTROOM WHO TOLD YOU NOT TO SEE MR. KATO KAELIN?

A: HUM, YES. WELL, IT WAS NOT -- NOT DON'T SEE HIM, BUT YOU PROBABLY SHOULD NOT TALK TO HIM.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THAT WAS SOME ADVICE THAT YOU RECEIVED?

MR. SIGELMAN: YOUR HONOR, I RAISE THE PRIVILEGE AGAIN. PAUL SIGELMAN. IT CALLS FOR COMMUNICATIONS.

MR. COCHRAN: I JUST ASKED SOMEONE IN THE COURTROOM, SO NOW WE KNOW WHO IT IS.

THE WITNESS: WELL, THAT IS NOT TRUE, THOUGH.

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: DID I TELL YOU THAT AS WELL, MISS FERRARA?

A: YES, YOU DID.

Q: TELL YOU DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY AT ALL WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: THAT IS NOT PRIVILEGED.

THE COURT: ANYTHING ELSE?

MR. COCHRAN: NO, NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: ANYTHING ELSE? MISS FERRARA, YOU ARE EXCUSED AS A WITNESS. WE WILL TAKE A FIFTEEN MINUTES RECESS. HAVE YOUR NEXT WITNESS AVAILABLE.

MS. CLARK: I DO.

THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU AND DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. WE WILL TAKE A 15-MINUTE RECESS AND THEN WE WILL RESUME. OKAY. FIFTEEN. (RECESS.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US?

MR. COCHRAN: YES, WE DO HAVE ONE MATTER. MAY WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(PAGES 20504 THROUGH 20507, VOLUME 115A, TRANSCRIBED AND SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. THE PEOPLE MAY CALL THEIR NEXT WITNESS.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE PEOPLE CALL MR. ALLAN PARK.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. PARK, WOULD YOU STEP FORWARD, PLEASE. STEP OVER HERE NEXT TO THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE. FACE THE CLERK.

ALLAN PARK, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?

THE WITNESS: I DO.

THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T YOU LEAN BACK, MR. PARK, AND JUST PULL THE MICROPHONE CLOSE TO YOU. ALL RIGHT.

THE WITNESS: A-L-L-A-N P-A-R-K.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: GOOD MORNING, MR. PARK.

A: GOOD MORNING.

Q: SIR, AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, CAN YOU TELL US WHERE YOU ARE EMPLOYED?

A: UH, I WAS EMPLOYED FOR TOWN AND COUNTRY LIMOUSINE.

Q: LET ME PUSH THAT MICROPHONE A LITTLE CLOSER. TRY AND TALK INTO IT LIKE A TELEPHONE. AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, YOU WERE EMPLOYED WHERE?

A: FOR TOWN AND COUNTRY LIMOUSINE.

Q: AS WHAT, SIR?

A: AS A LIMOUSINE DRIVER.

Q: AND HOW LONG AS OF JUNE THE 12TH HAD YOU BEEN WORKING THERE?

A: UH, IT WAS ABOUT TWO AND A HALF, THREE MONTHS.

Q: WHO WAS THE OWNER OF THAT LIMOUSINE COMPANY, SIR?

A: UH, DALE ST. JOHN.

Q: WAS HE ALSO A NEIGHBOR OF YOURS?

A: UH, YES, HE WAS.

Q: HOW CLOSE DID HE LIVE TO YOU?

A: JUST ACROSS THE STREET.

Q: ON THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, DID YOU HAVE AN ORDER FOR A PICK UP ON THAT DATE FOR THE EVENING TO GO TO THE AIRPORT?

A: UH, YES, I DID.

Q: WHAT WAS YOUR ORDER?

A: UH, MY ORDER WAS TO PICK UP MR. SIMPSON AT 360 ROCKINGHAM.

Q: AT WHAT TIME?

A: UH, 10:45.

Q: 10:45?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU -- WERE YOU MADE AWARE OF WHAT FLIGHT YOU HAD TO GET HIM TO?

A: UH, NOT A FLIGHT NUMBER, BUT JUST TO GET HIM TO LAX, UH, FOR AN 11:45 FLIGHT OUT FROM AMERICAN AIRLINES.

Q: AND WERE YOU AWARE OF WHERE THAT FLIGHT WAS GOING TO?

A: UH, I BELIEVE CHICAGO.

Q: HAD YOU EVER DRIVEN MR. SIMPSON TO THE AIRPORT BEFORE?

A: NO, I HAVEN'T.

Q: OR HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN -- HAD YOU EVER DRIVEN MR. SIMPSON ANYWHERE BEFORE?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, HAD YOU EVER BEEN TO THE BRENTWOOD AREA?

A: UH, NO.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, AT WHAT TIME YOU LEFT TO PICK UP MR. SIMPSON TO TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT ON JUNE THE 12TH?

A: WHAT TIME I LEFT MY PLACE?

Q: YES.

A: UH, IT WAS ABOUT 9:45.

Q: AND THE AREA WAS -- NOT YOUR ADDRESS AT THAT TIME, BUT THE GENERAL AREA YOU WERE LEAVING FROM?

A: UH, TORRANCE.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU LEFT AT 9:45?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU ANTICIPATING IT WOULD TAKE YOU AN HOUR TO GET TO BRENTWOOD FROM THERE?

A: UH, I HAD NO IDEA HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE. I KNEW IT WOULD BE SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.

Q: OKAY. NOW, WERE YOU SCHEDULING YOURSELF TO ARRIVE EXACTLY AT 10:45?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: WHAT TIME WERE YOU SCHEDULED TO ACTUALLY ARRIVE THERE?

A: WELL, THEY LIKE US TO BE THERE 10 MINUTES EARLY.

Q: SO WHAT TIME WERE YOU TRYING TO ARRIVE AT THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE IN BRENTWOOD?

A: 10:35.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU WERE -- WHEN YOU WERE DRIVING TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE, WHAT KIND OF CAR -- WHAT KIND OF LIMOUSINE WERE YOU DRIVING?

A: UH, IT WAS A STRETCH.

Q: A STRETCH LIMOUSINE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

A: IT MEANS IT'S LONG.

Q: LONGER THAN WHAT?

A: LONGER THAN A NORMAL SEDAN. IT'S -- I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT LENGTH OF IT. IT'S -- I THINK IT'S ONLY FIT FOR FOUR TO SIX PASSENGERS. SO IT'S NOT ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, SUPER LONG, BUT IT'S LONGER THAN A NORMAL SEDAN.

Q: HAD YOU EVER DRIVEN A STRETCH LIMOUSINE BEFORE?

A: YES, I HAVE.

Q: DID -- DO YOU -- WHEN YOU -- THE FIRST TIME YOU EVER DROVE IT, DID YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANY PRACTICE OR ANY INSTRUCTION IN HOW TO MANEUVER IT?

A: UH, I NEVER HAD ANY INSTRUCTIONS, NO.

Q: DID YOU PRACTICE ANY WITH IT?

A: WELL, BEFORE I WORKED FOR HIM, I -- I DROVE FOR ANOTHER PERSON FOR A FEW MONTHS. SO I HAD PRACTICE.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU SAID "HIM," YOU MEAN DALE ST. JOHN?

A: YES.

Q: BEFORE YOU WORKED FOR ST. JOHN AT TOWN AND COUNTRY LIMOUSINE, YOU WORKED FOR ANOTHER LIMOUSINE SERVICE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT THAT PRIOR LIMOUSINE SERVICE, HOW LONG HAD YOU WORKED THERE?

A: IT WAS ABOUT THE SAME, TWO AND A HALF, THREE MONTHS.

Q: DID YOU DRIVE STRETCH LIMOUSINES AT THAT EARLIER EMPLOYMENT?

A: IT WAS JUST ONE. IT WAS ONE PRIVATE OWNER. I JUST DROVE HIM AROUND AND NOBODY ELSE.

Q: NOW, IS IT A LITTLE BIT -- IS THERE ANY DIFFERENCE IN DRIVING A STRETCH LIMOUSINE THAN IT IS DRIVING A REGULAR SAY CAR THE SIZE OF A LINCOLN CONTINENTAL?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW IS IT DIFFERENT?

A: JUST, YOU NEED TO MAKE YOUR TURNS A LOT WIDER AND DRIVE A LITTLE BIT SLOWER WHEN THERE'S PEOPLE IN THE BACK.

Q: WHY DO YOU DRIVE A LITTLE SLOWER WHEN THERE'S PEOPLE IN BACK?

A: WELL, I DON'T WANT THEM FLYING FROM SIDE TO SIDE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU -- SO WHILE YOU WERE DRIVING, WHAT ROUTE DID YOU TAKE TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE?

A: I TOOK THE 405 FREEWAY NORTH TO SUNSET, MADE A LEFT OFF OF SUNSET GOING WEST TO ROCKINGHAM, I MADE A RIGHT AND HEADED UP ROCKINGHAM TO THE RESIDENCE.

Q: DURING YOUR DRIVE TO THE RESIDENCE, SIR -- IS THAT CAR, THAT LIMO THAT YOU WERE DRIVING THAT NIGHT, THAT STRETCH LIMO, IS IT EQUIPPED WITH A CELL PHONE?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AND IS IT THE KIND OF PHONE THAT IS FIXED IN THE CAR OR CAN YOU REMOVE IT AND TAKE IT AROUND WITH YOU?

A: IT'S FIXED IN THE CAR.

Q: DID YOU RECEIVE ANY PHONE CALLS DURING YOUR TRIP TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: UH, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, I RECEIVED ONE FROM DALE, JUST --

Q: I'M SORRY. DALE ST. JOHN?

A: YES.

Q: THAT WAS YOUR BOSS?

A: YES.

Q: HE CALLED YOU IN THE CAR WHILE YOU WERE EN ROUTE TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU DROVE -- WHEN YOU INDICATED TO US JUST NOW, YOU TURNED RIGHT UP ONTO ROCKINGHAM AND DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM, DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU GOT TO THE LOCATION ON ROCKINGHAM WHERE THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE WAS?

A: UH, IT HAD TO HAVE BEEN AROUND 9:22, 9:23.

Q: 9:22?

A: NO. EXCUSE ME. 10:22, 10:23. I'M SORRY.

Q: NOW, HOW WAS IT THAT YOU -- YOU KNEW WHAT THE ADDRESS WAS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

Q: HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO LOCATE WHICH HOUSE ON ROCKINGHAM WAS THE DEFENDANT'S AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM?

A: THERE WAS ADDRESSES ON -- PAINTED ON THE CURB.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 62-A.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU SEE THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEING SHOWN TO YOU AS PEOPLE'S 62-A, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: CAN YOU INDICATE TO US -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. DID YOU LOCATE THE ADDRESS ON THE CURB THAT BELONGED TO THE DEFENDANT, 360, AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM IN THAT STRETCH LIMO?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU SEE THE LOCATION THAT YOU NOTICED THE ADDRESS IN PAINTED ON THE CURB IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO DIRECT THE ARROW TO THE ADDRESS YOU SAW ON THE CURB ON JUNE THE 12TH. HOW ABOUT A DIFFERENT COLOR? RED? TELL US -- TELL THE ARROW WHERE TO GO, MR. PARK.

A: UH, GO DOWN BEHIND THE BRONCO, BACK UP A LITTLE BIT, UH, UP, THERE YOU GO, RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. COULD YOU PUT A CIRCLE AROUND THAT, JOHN? ALL RIGHT. SO YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THE ADDRESS ON THE CURB THERE?

A: YES.

Q: SO AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT THAT LOCATION, THE ADDRESS ON THE CURB, DID YOU SEE A CAR PARKED IN THAT LOCATION?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: YOU SEE THAT WHITE BRONCO IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THAT WHITE BRONCO THERE AT THE TIME YOU DROVE BY AT ABOUT 10:22?

A: I DIDN'T SEE IT.

Q: AND YOU WERE LOOKING AT THAT CURB; WERE YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU SAW THE ADDRESS ON THE CURB, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT? WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: UH, I WAS DRIVING A LITTLE BIT QUICK. SO BY THE TIME I SAW IT, UH, I NOTICED THAT WAS THE HOUSE AND I SHOULD TURN AROUND. AS I GOT A LITTLE BIT FARTHER, UH, I NOTICED ANOTHER SIDE STREET, ASHFORD.

Q: AND HOW FAR WAS THAT SIDE STREET PAST THE LOCATION OF THE CURB WHERE YOU SAW THE ADDRESS?

A: IT'S ABOUT ANOTHER 40, 50 YARDS.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 63.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION THAT YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU TELL US, FIRST OF ALL, WHICH STREET IT IS THAT COMES ACTUALLY DOWN TO THE LEFT-HAND CORNER OF THE SCREEN AS YOU FACE IT?

A: THAT'S ASHFORD.

Q: CAN YOU POINT -- I'LL TELL YOU WHAT. POINT THE -- TELL THE ARROW. WHERE'S ASHFORD? TELL THE ARROW WHERE TO GO.

A: GO DOWN TO THE LEFT. I'M PRETTY -- THAT'S ASHFORD THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. MARK THAT?

MS. CLARK: AND THE PREVIOUS PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, SHOULD BE MARKED --

THE COURT: 62A-1.

MS. CLARK: 62A-1. THANK YOU.

(PEO'S 62A-1 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND IS THAT THE STREET THAT YOU INDICATED WAS THE SIDE STREET THAT YOU SAW?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THAT SIDE STREET, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I TURNED RIGHT AND DROVE DOWN THE STREET A LITTLE WAYS AND MADE A U-TURN AND CAME BACK AND PARKED ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE ALMOST PARALLEL TO THE GATE WITH MY FRONT WINDOW.

Q: ALMOST PARALLEL TO THE ASHFORD GATE?

A: ALMOST, YEAH.

Q: OKAY. CAN YOU -- CAN YOU -- WELL, THERE HAPPENS TO BE A CAR PARKED ON THE NORTH CURB OF -- NORTH CURB OF ASHFORD IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH. DO YOU SEE IT?

A: YES.

Q: WHERE IN RELATION TO WHERE THAT CAR IS IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH DID YOU PARK?

A: SAME SPOT.

Q: OKAY. COULD WE PLEASE MARK THAT AS WELL? WHY DON'T WE CIRCLE THAT CAR. NO, NO, NO. NO, NO, NO. NOT THERE. DIRECT THE ARROW, MR. PARK.

A: TO THE BLACK JEEP OVER THERE IN THE CORNER LOOKS LIKE, DOWN. THERE YOU GO (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. CAN WE CIRCLE THAT? THERE WE GO. THANKS, JOHN.

MS. CLARK: CAN THIS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 63-E?

THE COURT: SO MARKED.

(PEO'S 63-E FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MR. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. YOU MARKED YOUR -- THAT STRETCH LIMO THERE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: UH, I GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WALKED TOWARDS THE BACK AND HAD A CIGARETTE, AND WHEN I WAS DONE, I GOT BACK IN THE CAR AND LISTENED TO THE RADIO A LITTLE BIT.

Q: OKAY. WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU PARKED ON ASHFORD?

A: WHEN I PARKED ON ASHFORD?

Q: YES.

A: IT WAS 10:25.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT DIRECTION WAS THE STRETCH LIMO PARKED IN?

A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FACING WEST.

Q: WOULD IT HAVE BEEN FACING ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

Q: THE STREET ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, SIR, WOULD YOU STEP DOWN, PLEASE.

THE COURT: AND, MISS CLARK, WHICH BOARD IS THIS?

MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR. PEOPLE'S 66.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WOULD YOU MIND USING THE POINTER IF YOU WOULD? THERE'S ONE RIGHT BY YOU OVER THERE ON THE WITNESS STAND. YOU CAN USE THE BIGGER ONE IF YOU WANT. AND PLEASE SHOW US THE ROUTE THAT YOU TOOK AS YOU -- WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION IN BRENTWOOD, YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM. WOULD YOU PLEASE SHOW THE JURY THE DIRECTION YOU DROVE AND HOW YOU ARRIVED AT THE PARK LOCATION YOU'VE INDICATED TO US ON PEOPLE'S 63-E.

A: OKAY. I CAME UP ROCKINGHAM, I SAW THE ADDRESS RIGHT ABOUT HERE (INDICATING), WAS GOING AROUND REALLY QUICK.

Q: WAIT A MINUTE.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS SAID, "SAW THE ADDRESS RIGHT ABOUT HERE," THAT WOULD BE JUST ABOVE THE UPPER BLACK LINE DEFINING THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY.

THE WITNESS: UH, I THEN PROCEEDED UP TO ASHFORD, MADE A RIGHT ON ASHFORD, WAS LOOKING FOR A GOOD PLACE TO TURN AROUND AT, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN DOWN AROUND HERE. THERE WAS ANOTHER DRIVEWAY (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS GESTURED TO AN AREA OF THE BOARD WHICH WOULD BE A CONTINUATION OF ASHFORD STREET.

THE WITNESS: MADE MY U-TURN AND CAME BACK DOWN AND PARKED JUST ABOUT HERE (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: AND FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS, WHEN HE SAID, "PARKED JUST ABOUT HERE," INDICATES A LOCATION THAT'S SLIGHTLY TO THE WEST OF THE ASHFORD GATE OF MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE.

THE COURT: ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE STREET.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: TELL YOU WHAT. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE YOU TRACE IT ON THE ELMO AS WELL.

A: UP HERE?

Q: GO AHEAD AND TAKE A SEAT.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. MR. PARK, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU -- I'M GOING TO TAKE THE BOARD DOWN NOW AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO DIRECT THE ARROW TO TRACE THE ROUTE THAT YOU'VE JUST DONE FOR US.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU DIRECT THE CROSS TO TRACE THAT ROUTE SO WE CAN PRESERVE THIS STARTING AT THE BOTTOM. TELL IT.

A: OKAY. I FOLLOWED ROCKINGHAM STRAIGHT UP, SAW THE ADDRESS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE CURB THERE (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. CAN WE MARK THAT LOCATION? DIRECT THE CROSS TO THE LOCATION WHERE YOU SAW THE ADDRESS.

A: WHICH WOULD BE THE NORTHEAST.

Q: DIRECT THE ARROW.

A: RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: CAN WE PUT AN "X" -- NO. WELL, NO, THAT'S FINE. OKAY. CONTINUE.

A: I CONTINUED UP ALL THE WAY TO ASHFORD, MADE A RIGHT-HAND TURN, WENT DOWN THE STREET PAST THE DRIVEWAY. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OFF THE SCREEN, BUT I MADE A U-TURN JUST PAST THAT, UH, LITTLE FARTHER DOWN. JUST PAST THE DRIVEWAY, I PARKED ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE STREET, RIGHT ABOUT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. WE CAN PUT THE ARROW GOING -- WHICH WAY WAS YOUR CAR FACING?

A: THE OTHER WAY. IT WAS FACING WEST.

Q: ALL RIGHT. ABOUT THERE (INDICATING)?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IF WE COULD MARK THIS AS PEOPLE'S 66-B.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 66-B.

(PEO'S 66-B FOR ID = DIAGRAM)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THE LOCATION WHERE THE ARROW HAS STOPPED ON ASHFORD STREET, SIR, WHAT TIME WAS IT?

A: IT WAS 10:25.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

A: I LOOKED AT MY WATCH AND THERE'S ALSO A CLOCK ON THE RADIO.

Q: IN THE CAR?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS THE CLOCK IN THE CAR THE SAME TIME AS YOUR WATCH?

A: YEAH, GIVE OR TAKE A MINUTE OR SO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT AFTER YOU PARKED? WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: UH, I GOT OUTSIDE. I WALKED TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE CAR, UH, HAD A CIGARETTE. I GOT BACK INSIDE THE CAR, LISTENED TO THE RADIO FOR A FEW MINUTES AND THEN JUST AT ABOUT 10:39, I PROCEEDED TO DRIVE UP TO THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU SMOKED A CIGARETTE, LISTENED TO THE RADIO AND THEN GOT BACK INSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER YOU GOT BACK INSIDE, DID YOU LOOK AT THE CLOCK AGAIN?

A: YES, I DID. I WANTED TO -- I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I WAS RIGHT ON MY 10 MINUTES EARLY.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU GOT BACK INTO THE CAR AT WHAT TIME?

A: IT WAS AROUND 10:39.

Q: 10:39?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

A: FROM LOOKING AT THE CLOCKS.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: UH, I STARTED THE CAR AND DROVE BACK ONTO ROCKINGHAM, MADE A LEFT AND DROVE UP TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE WITH MY DRIVER'S SIDE WINDOW LOOKING DOWN THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY. UH, IT JUST DIDN'T LOOK TOO EASY TO GET INTO. SO -- SO I BACKED STRAIGHT BACK UP AND, UH, MADE A LEFT ONTO, UH, BACK ONTO ASHFORD AND PULLED UP TO THE ASHFORD GATE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. LET ME BACK UP A SECOND AND SHOW YOU SOME PHOTOGRAPHS.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S 63.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU DROVE DOWN ASHFORD. AND WHICH WAY DID YOU TURN ON ROCKINGHAM?

A: I MADE A LEFT.

Q: AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE DID YOU DO THAT?

A: TO GO BACK TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: WHY DID YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: I DON'T KNOW.

Q: WHY DID YOU WANT TO LOOK IN THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: BECAUSE I WANTED TO DRIVE INTO IT.

Q: OKAY. NOW, WAS THE ROCKINGHAM GATE OPEN OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS CLOSED.

Q: SO SHOWING THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, YOU INDICATED EARLIER THAT YOU WERE IN THE POSITION OF THAT DARK COLORED JEEP ON THE NORTH SIDE OF ASHFORD?

A: YES.

Q: WHICH WAY DID YOU TURN ON ROCKINGHAM?

A: LEFT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. THIS NEXT PHOTOGRAPH HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL, BE PEOPLE'S 146

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 146.

(PEO'S 146 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT STREET IS DEPICTED IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: UH, THAT LOOKS LIKE ROCKINGHAM.

Q: OKAY. AND IS THAT THE LOCATION YOU DROVE DOWN TO GET TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S 62-A.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN THERE?

A: THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, THIS FOLLOWING PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S 147, HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL.

THE COURT: 147.

(PEO'S 147 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: THAT IS ALSO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: NOW, WAS THAT GATE OPEN OR CLOSED WHEN YOU SAW IT?

A: IT WAS CLOSED.

Q: WHEN YOU LOOKED INTO THE -- WERE YOU ABLE TO LOOK THROUGH THE GATE, THROUGH THE BARS?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU PULLED UP TO THAT LOCATION, SIR, YOU WERE DRIVING THAT STRETCH LIMO, CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU PULLED THE -- SO THAT YOU COULD LOOK INTO THE GATE, YOU HAD THE SIDE WINDOW; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE OUT THE SIDE WINDOW?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: WHERE WITH RESPECT TO THE GATE DID YOU PULL TO LOCATE YOUR SIDE WINDOW CLOSE TO THE GATE?

A: UH, I WAS OUT IN THE STREET.

Q: UH-HUH.

A: I NEVER PULLED UP TO THE GATE AT ALL.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DID NOT PULL FACE INTO THE GATE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: HOW DID YOU PULL UP -- WHAT POSITION DID YOU PULL UP TO NEXT TO THE GATE?

A: UH, WOULD HAVE BEEN MY DRIVER'S SIDE WINDOW. I HAD TO LOOK OUT THE LEFT TO LOOK DOWN THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY. AND AS YOU PULLED DOWN ROCKINGHAM THIS TIME GOING SOUTHBOUND ON ROCKINGHAM AND LOOKED INTO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, DID YOU SEE ANY CAR, WHITE BRONCO, PARKED TO THE LEFT OF THE GATE AS YOU FACED IT?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AND WAS THAT LOCATION IN YOUR FIELD OF VIEW AT THE TIME YOU LOOKED INTO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO DO WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH -- WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO DETERMINE WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH THE ROCKINGHAM GATE TO YOUR LEFT?

A: I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE DRIVEWAY AND SEEING HOW EASY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TO PULL INTO THE DRIVEWAY AND IF I CAN EXIT OUT ONTO ASHFORD. UH, JUST THE WAY THE CARS WERE PARKED AND WHERE THE GARAGE WAS, IT DIDN'T LOOK, YOU KNOW, VERY EASY TO MAKE THAT TURN.

Q: OKAY.

A: SO I DECIDED TO BACK UP.

Q: SO DID YOU MAKE A U-TURN OR DID YOU BACK UP?

A: NO. I BACKED STRAIGHT UP.

Q: YOU PUT IT IN REVERSE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU PUT IT IN REVERSE, DID YOU HAVE TO LOOK BEHIND YOU?

A: OF COURSE, YES.

Q: AND DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT SHOULDER YOU LOOKED OVER TO DO THAT?

A: UH, I WOULD HAVE LOOKED OVER MY RIGHT.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU LOOKED OVER YOUR RIGHT SHOULDER, DID YOU SEE ANYTHING BEHIND YOU?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOU BACKED UP TO WHERE?

A: UH, I BACKED UP TO THE ASHFORD STREET.

Q: OKAY. AND WHERE DID YOU GO THEN?

A: UH, MADE ANOTHER LEFT ONTO ASHFORD AND PULLED UP TO THE FRONT GATE.

Q: OKAY. LET'S GO BACK TO 66 ON THE ELMO. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 63, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND AGAIN, SIR, YOU INDICATE -- YOU INDICATED EARLIER THAT THE ASHFORD STREET INTERSECTS WITH ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES, IT DOES.

Q: AND DOES THIS SHOW THE ASHFORD STREET THAT YOU PULLED ONTO?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHICH WAY DID YOU TURN ON ASHFORD?

A: LEFT.

Q: I AM SORRY. WHEN YOU CAME BACK UP ROCKINGHAM, YOU TURNED LEFT ONTO ASHFORD; IS THAT CORRECT? IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?

A: WHEN I -- WHEN I BACKED STRAIGHT BACK UP?

Q: UH-HUH.

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU BACK ALL THE WAY UP -- ALL THE WAY UP ROCKINGHAM PAST ASHFORD?

A: YEAH. YES.

Q: AND YOU MADE A LEFT ONTO ASHFORD. WAS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?

A: YES.

Q: THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: PULLED -- I PULLED UP TO THE ASHFORD GATE WITH MY BUMPER JUST ABOUT TOUCHING THE -- JUST ABOUT TOUCHING THE GATE AND, UH, TURNED OFF MY LIGHTS. I ONLY HAD MY PARKING LIGHTS ON.

Q: OKAY.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S 64.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 64. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION SHOWN THERE, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT POSITION DID YOU PULL UP TO WITH RESPECT TO THE GATE SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: UH, WITH MY CAR FACING IN FORWARD TOWARDS THE HOUSE WITH THE FRONT BUMPER ALMOST TOUCHING THAT GATE.

Q: OKAY. IS THAT THE ASHFORD GATE THAT WE SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: WHEN YOU PULLED UP TO THE ASHFORD GATE, SIR, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY CARS NEAR THIS GATE?

A: UH, YES. THERE WAS ONE.

Q: AND WHAT CAR DID YOU NOTICE?

A: IT WAS, UH, FROM WHAT I COULD REMEMBER, A BLACK 300ZX.

Q: A BLACK 300ZX?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU SEE ANY CAR IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT APPEARS TO MATCH THE CAR YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED AS HAVING SEEN ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH NEAR THE ASHFORD GATE?

A: YES. THAT RESEMBLES THE ONE I SAW.

Q: OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU DIRECT THE ARROW TO CIRCLE THAT CAR.

A: JUST BEHIND THE PERSON THERE. RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: IS THAT IT?

A: YES.

Q: AND CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER IT WAS IN THAT POSITION ON THE NIGHT YOU SAW IT OF JUNE THE 12TH?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. NOW, CAN YOU DIRECT THE ARROW, PLEASE, TO SHOW US THE LOCATION WHERE YOU WERE PARKED AND TELL THE ARROW WHICH DIRECTION IT SHOULD FACE TO INDICATE THE FRONT OF YOUR LIMO?

A: UH, THE ARROW SHOULD BE POINTING UPWARDS JUST LIKE THAT WITH MY FRONT BUMPER JUST TOUCHING THE GATE. DOWN A LITTLE LOWER. THERE YOU GO (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 64-B, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: 64-B.

(PEO'S 64-B FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU PLEASE TRACE THE ROUTE YOU JUST DESCRIBED TO US, SIR? AFTER YOU PARKED ON ASHFORD, YOU INDICATED YOU GOT BACK IN THE CAR AND DROVE AGAIN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU INDICATED IT WAS WHAT TIME WHEN YOU DID THAT?

A: WHEN I GOT BACK IN THE CAR?

Q: WHEN YOU DROVE -- WHEN YOU BEGAN TO DRIVE AGAIN TO LOOK AT THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

A: THAT WAS AROUND 10:39.

Q: OKAY. PLEASE DIRECT THE POINTER, THE CROSS.

A: UH, GO BACK OUT ONTO ASHFORD -- I MEAN ROCKINGHAM, MAKE A LEFT, ALL THE WAY TO THE DRIVEWAY. I STOPPED THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU INDICATE TO US WHERE YOUR SIDE WINDOW WAS IN RESPECT -- WITH RESPECT TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: IT WAS JUST PARALLEL WITH IT LOOKING STRAIGHT DOWN THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT TIME WAS IT, SIR, WHEN YOU GOT TO -- STRIKE THAT. WHEN YOU WERE -- WHEN YOU LOOKED TO YOUR LEFT TO LOOK UP THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, WERE YOU LOOKING VERY CAREFULLY TO THAT -- IN THAT DIRECTION, SIR?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE ANY CAR -- ANY WHITE BRONCO PARKED TO YOUR LEFT AT -- NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. YOU DID NOT SEE ANY --

A: NO.

Q: -- BRONCO PARKED TO THE NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: THAT'S WHEN I BACKED STRAIGHT BACK UP THOSE SAME TRACES AND --

Q: OKAY. WHY DON'T WE PUT A "1" ON THAT WHITE LINE. ALL RIGHT. AND NOW IN A DIFFERENT COLOR, MAYBE GREEN. OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU DIRECT US HOW -- TO HOW YOU WENT IN REVERSE.

A: UH, STRAIGHT BACK, JUST A LITTLE BIT PAST ASHFORD AND THEN MADE A LEFT, WENT BACK FORWARD (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY.

A: MADE A LEFT.

Q: AND COULD YOU PLEASE DIRECT IT TO SHOW WHERE YOU PARKED?

A: KEEP GOING. MADE A RIGHT ALL THE WAY UP TO THE FRONT GATE (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. AND COULD WE PUT AN ARROW THERE INDICATING YOUR -- THE DIRECTION YOU WERE FACING? IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

Q: OKAY. AND LET'S PUT AN ARROW ON THE WHITE LINE INDICATING THE DIRECTION YOU TOOK. WOULD THAT BE THE FRONT OF YOUR CAR, SIR?

A: WHERE THE GREEN IS?

Q: NO. WHERE THE WHITE ARROW IS. AS YOU GOT -- WHEN YOU GOT TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND IF WE COULD PUT A "2" ON THE GREEN LINE. WHY DON'T YOU PUT IT UP THERE BY ASHFORD. OKAY. GOOD. THANKS, JOHN.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, YOU WANT TO MARK THIS EXHIBIT?

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR, I DO. PEOPLE'S 66-C.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

(PEO'S 66-C FOR ID = DIAGRAM)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU PULLED UP TO THE ASHFORD GATE, SIR, THE LOCATION SHOWN BY THE GREEN ARROW, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT TIME IT WAS?

A: THAT WAS AT 10:40.

Q: AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

A: BECAUSE I LOOKED AT THE CLOCKS AGAIN.

Q: I'M SORRY?

A: I LOOKED AT MY WATCH AND THE CLOCK AGAIN.

Q: AND THE CLOCK?

A: YEAH.

Q: YOU LOOKED AT YOUR CLOCK AND YOUR WATCH A LOT THAT NIGHT.

A: A LOT.

Q: WHY IS THAT?

A: BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE A LIMO DRIVER, YOU'RE SET PRETTY MUCH ON SCHEDULES. SO YOU'RE LOOKING TO SEE IF YOU'RE ON TIME, HOW LONG YOU HAVE TO GET TO THE AIRPORT, THINGS LIKE THAT.

Q: NOW, YOU INDICATED I THINK THAT YOU TURNED OFF YOUR HEAD LIGHTS AND YOU LEFT ONLY YOUR PARKING LIGHTS ON?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AT 10:40?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THAT IS WHEN I GOT OUT OF THE CAR. AND THERE IS AN INTERCOM AT THE GATE, AND I WAS USING THAT INTERCOM TO BUZZ THE HOUSE. AND I BUZZED IT AND THERE WAS NO ANSWER. I PROCEEDED TO BUZZ IT A FEW MORE TIMES. THERE WAS STILL NO ANSWER. SO I, UH -- THAT'S WHEN I DECIDED TO GET BACK IN THE CAR AND, UH, CALL MY BOSS' VOICE MAIL.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU -- WAS IT SOMETHING YOU PRESSED, A BUTTON YOU PRESSED?

A: I THINK IT WAS A BUTTON, YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU PRESSED THAT BUTTON, COULD YOU HEAR A SOUND?

A: YEAH. IT -- IT MADE A RINGING OR A BUZZING NOISE.

Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHETHER IT WAS RINGING OR BUZZING?

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. BUT IT WAS A SOUND.

A: YES.

Q: HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU PRESS THE BUTTON AT 10:40?

A: IT WAS A GOOD TWO OR THREE, FOUR TIMES.

Q: AND DID YOU GET ANY ANSWER?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: SO AFTER YOU PRESSED THE BUZZER TWO OR THREE OR FOUR TIMES AND GOT NO ANSWER, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THAT'S WHEN I STEPPED BACK INTO THE CAR AND, UH, USED THE CELL PHONE TO CALL MY BOSS' VOICE MAIL.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: CAN I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU INDICATED TO US EARLIER, SIR, THAT YOU -- THAT THERE WAS A PHONE IN THAT LIMOUSINE?

A: YES, THERE WAS.

Q: AND YOU JUST INDICATED NOW THAT YOU USED THAT PHONE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHO DID YOU CALL?

A: I CALLED MY -- UH, I WAS TRYING TO GET HOLD OF MY BOSS, DALE ST. JOHN, WHICH IT ENDED UP BEING HIS VOICE MAIL. IT'S HIS BUSINESS LINE.

Q: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU PHONE RECORDS, SIR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A PHOTOCOPY OF A PHONE BILL I'LL BE MARKING --

THE COURT: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER IS 148.

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 148. THANK YOU. I'LL BE MARKING A DIFFERENT COPY OF THIS SAME FOR ACTUAL ADMISSION AT SOME POINT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: BUT FOR NOW, I'LL JUST USE THIS XEROX IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

(PEO'S 148 FOR ID = PHONE BILL)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIR, I'M DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS DOCUMENT IN FRONT OF YOU AND I'M GOING TO BE ASKING YOU A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. DO YOU SEE HERE AN ENTRY FOR JUNE THE 12TH, '94, THE TIME 2205:36?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: FIRST OF ALL, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH MILITARY VERSUS REGULAR TIME?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND 2205:36, WOULD THAT BE 10:05 AND 36 SECONDS P.M.?

A: YES, IT WOULD.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DOES THAT SHOW A PHONE CALL PLACED TO AND FROM A GIVEN NUMBER HERE?

A: YES, IT DOES.

Q: OKAY. THE NUMBER STATED HERE FOR THIS FIRST CALL AT 10:05 ON THIS BILL, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT NUMBER?

A: DO I -- WELL, I DON'T RECOGNIZE IT, NO. I KNOW WHAT IT IS, BUT --

Q: WHAT IS IT?

A: THAT'S -- IT'S THE PHONE NUMBER TO THE LIMOUSINE.

Q: OKAY. THE CAR -- THE PHONE THAT YOU HAD IN YOUR CAR?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DOES THAT REFLECT A CALL THAT CAME INTO YOU AT 10:05?

A: YES.

Q: WHO WOULD THAT BE FROM?

A: THAT WOULD BE FROM DALE ST. JOHN.

Q: YOUR BOSS?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU SEE THEN A CALL AT 1043:44 ON JUNE THE 12TH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PHONE NUMBER TO WHICH THE CALL WAS PLACED?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHOSE PHONE NUMBER IS THAT?

A: THAT IS DALE ST. JOHN'S BUSINESS LINE.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU SAY BUSINESS LINE, YOU EARLIER INDICATED TO US THAT YOU PLACED A PHONE CALL TO HIS PAGER?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT THE SAME AS HIS BUSINESS LINE?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: OKAY. NOW, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION -- OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU PLACED THE CALL TO DALE ST. JOHN'S PAGER, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: UH, I MADE THE CALL AND, UH, I LEFT THE NUMBER THAT, UH -- TO CALL ME BACK, AND AFTER THAT, I GOT BACK OUT OF THE CAR AND PROCEEDED TO RING THE INTERCOM A FEW MORE TIMES.

Q: OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING, MR. PARK. WHEN YOU SAY YOU LEFT A NUMBER FOR HIM TO CALL YOU BACK, WHAT NUMBER DID YOU LEAVE? THE NUMBER TO WHAT?

A: ACTUALLY, I THINK I LEFT LIKE 911, BECAUSE I NEVER KNEW THE PHONE NUMBER TO THE -- TO THE LIMOUSINE. I NEVER KNEW WHAT THE -- NEVER KNEW WHAT THE NUMBER TO THE LIMOUSINE PHONE WAS. SO I COULDN'T LEAVE HIM A NUMBER I DIDN'T KNOW. SO I JUST LEFT HIM 911 FIGURING HE'D FIGURE THAT OUT, REALIZE I WAS IN SOME KIND OF TROUBLE.

Q: AND WHAT KIND OF TROUBLE WERE YOU IN THAT YOU LEFT THE 911?

A: UH, THAT NOBODY WAS ANSWERING, THAT I DIDN'T THINK ANYONE WAS HOME. SO I WANTED TO FIND OUT WHAT HIS INSTRUCTIONS WERE FROM THERE TO, UH, FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT WAS AT 10:43, WAS IT, P.M.?

A: YES, IT WAS.

THE COURT: WOULD THIS BE A GOOD POINT? ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE MORNING SESSION. PLEASE REMEMBER ALL MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, ALSO, DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. MR. PARK, I AM GOING TO ORDER YOU TO COME BACK AT 1:30. DO NOT DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE TWO LAWYERS HERE. I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A REPORTER HERE FROM THE NORTH HIGH NORTH WIND. YOU ARE NOT TO TALK TO THAT PERSON. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS. 1:30.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I'M SORRY. BEFORE WE LEAVE THE RECORD, MAY I MARK THIS CHART AS PEOPLE'S 149?

THE COURT: 149, NEXT IN ORDER. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

(PEO'S 149 FOR ID = CHART)

(AT 12:00 P.M., THE NOON RECESS WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.)

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, MARCH 28, 1995 1:31 P.M.

DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: GOOD AFTERNOON, COUNSEL. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE RESUME WITH MR. PARK?

MS. CLARK: I DON'T THINK SO.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE ALL BEEN JOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. MR. PARK, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.

ALLAN PARK, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE NOON RECESS, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. PARK.

THE WITNESS: GOOD AFTERNOON.

THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED, SIR, YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. AND MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE WITH YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: MR. PARK, I NOTICE YOU ARE NOT WEARING GLASSES AT THIS MOMENT. ARE YOU WEARING CONTACTS?

A: NO, I'M NOT.

Q: ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH, SIR, WHEN YOU PICKED UP MR. SIMPSON TO TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT, WERE YOU WEARING GLASSES?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: WERE YOU WEARING CONTACTS?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: DO YOU EVER WEAR GLASSES?

A: SOMETIMES.

Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

A: A LOT OF TIMES DRIVING AT NIGHT, JUST SEEING FREEWAY SIGNS FROM A VERY FAR DISTANCE.

Q: SO WHAT DO YOU NEED GLASSES FOR?

A: WHAT DO I -- WHAT DO I NEED THEM FOR?

Q: YES. WHEN DO YOU NEED THEM?

A: FOR SEEING VERY FAR DISTANCES.

Q: AND FOR SEEING WHAT AT A DISTANCE? FOR SEEING OBJECTS?

A: NO, JUST FOR READING STREET SIGNS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. OBJECTS I'M FINE, ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT IS JUST LITTLE STREET SIGNS, YOU KNOW, SIGNS ARE PRETTY SMALL.

Q: OKAY. AS YOU WERE DRIVING DOWN SUNSET WESTBOUND TOWARD ROCKINGHAM, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE STREET SIGN OF ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: NOW, YOU INDICATED TO US, SIR, THAT WHEN YOU TURNED RIGHT ONTO ROCKINGHAM, WHEN YOU FIRST ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION, YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE CURBS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT FOR THE PURPOSE OF?

A: LOOKING AT THE ADDRESSES.

Q: OKAY. HAD ANYBODY EVER AT THE GRAND JURY OR THE PRELIMINARY HEARING EVER ASKED YOU HOW YOU LOCATED THE ADDRESS OF MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE?

A: NO, THEY DIDN'T.

Q: AND YOU HAVE TESTIFIED, SIR, BEFORE THE GRAND JURY AND AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING IN THIS MATTER?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU ALSO GAVE AN INTERVIEW TO MR. SHAPIRO ON JUNE THE 14TH, DID YOU NOT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND ON ANY OF THOSE OCCASIONS DID ANYONE ASK YOU HOW YOU LOCATED THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE?

A: NO, THEY DIDN'T.

Q: AND HOW WAS IT THAT IT CAME TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT YOU LOCATED HIS RESIDENCE BY LOOKING AT THE ADDRESSES ON THE CURB OF ROCKINGHAM?

A: WHO POINTED THAT OUT TO ME?

Q: HOW DID IT COME TO YOUR ATTENTION THAT THAT IS HOW YOU LOCATED HIS ADDRESS?

A: WITH A DISCUSSION WITH MY MOM.

Q: AND WHEN YOU BECAME AWARE OF THE FACT THAT YOU HAD BEEN LOOKING AT THE CURBS FOR THE ADDRESSES TO LOCATE MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE, AND THAT THAT IS HOW YOU LOCATED HIS ADDRESS, WHY WAS THAT SIGNIFICANT TO YOU?

A: BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW -- I DIDN'T KNOW -- I WAS LOOKING FOR HIS HOUSE, SO I WAS LOOKING AT ADDRESSES ALONG THE CURB TO FIND OUT WHICH ONE WAS HIS AND THAT WAS THE ONLY SPOT THERE WAS AN ADDRESS. I SAW THEM ALL THE WAY DOWN THE STREET, SO --

Q: OKAY. SO YOU RECALLED THAT YOU SAW THAT ADDRESS?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WERE LOOKING AT THAT CURB?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 62-A.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE CURB AND SAW THE ADDRESS ON THAT NIGHT AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM, YOU INDICATED BEFORE THAT YOU SAW NO WHITE BRONCO?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE -- MAY WE APPROACH? LEADING. IF THIS IS FOUNDATIONAL --

MS. CLARK: IT IS FOUNDATIONAL. HE HAS ALREADY SO TESTIFIED.

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING.

THE COURT: OVERRULED AT THIS POINT. WE ARE BACK TO THE POINT OF COMING UP ROCKINGHAM, CORRECT?

MS. CLARK: RIGHT, RIGHT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PROCEED. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE CURB AND YOU SAW THE ADDRESS ON THAT NIGHT AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM, YOU INDICATED BEFORE THAT YOU DID NOT SEE THE WHITE BRONCO THERE?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECT. ASKED AND ANSWERED THREE OR FOUR TIMES.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR --

Q: YOU CAN ANSWER.

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU SEE ANY CARS PARKED ALONG THE CURB TO THE NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: NORTH OF IT? NO.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND THEN YOU INDICATED AT SOME POINT THAT YOU WERE PARKED ON ASHFORD?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 63.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND THAT YOU AT SOME POINT PARKED FACING IN TOWARDS THE ASHFORD GATE?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, AGAIN, WE WOULD LIKE TO OBJECT. WE COVERED ALL THIS THIS MORNING.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS FOUNDATIONAL TO ANOTHER QUESTION.

MR. COCHRAN: IT HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OVERRULED AT THIS POINT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: DO YOU RECALL THAT TESTIMONY?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANY -- DID YOU NOTICE ANY CAR, OTHER THAN THE 300ZX THAT YOU MENTIONED?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: THAT IS NEAR THE ASHFORD GATE?

A: YES. NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU RECALL --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 64.

Q: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 64, SIR, WHEN YOU WERE -- DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT IS THAT?

A: THAT IS THE ASHFORD GATE.

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. THIS IS ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: I AGREE. I AGREE. HE HAS IDENTIFIED THIS ALREADY. PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU NOTICE ANY WHITE FORD BRONCO PARKED TO EITHER SIDE OF THAT ASHFORD GATE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU INDICATED WHEN WE BROKE FOR LUNCH THAT YOU HAD PRESSED THE BUZZER A FEW TIMES AND RECEIVED NO ANSWER. WHEN YOU WERE PRESSING THE BUZZER, SIR, CAN YOU INDICATE ON THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHAT POSITION YOU WERE IN?

THE COURT: REFERRING TO PEOPLE'S 64.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE WITNESS: I WAS STANDING FACING THE INTERCOM, WHICH WOULD BE FACING SOUTHEAST DIRECTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. CAN YOU PUT THE ARROW WHERE YOUR POSITION WOULD HAVE BEEN WHERE YOU WOULD BE FACING?

A: STRAIGHT DOWN FROM THERE, DOWN -- RIGHT ABOUT THERE, (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. AND THE ARROW, IS THAT FACING THE DIRECTION YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN FACING?

A: YES. IT IS SOMEWHAT, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE COCKEYED FROM THAT. THERE YOU GO.

Q: OKAY.

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT, WHERE IT IS NOW?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. THANK YOU. COULD THIS BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 64-B --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: 64-C, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: 64-C.

(PEO'S 64-C FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SO WHAT OBJECT WOULD YOU BE FACING WHEN YOU ARE PRESSING THE BUZZER?

A: THAT SEEMS TO BE THAT BIG BEAM, THE BIG CEMENT BEAM.

Q: OKAY.

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER.

Q: PARDON?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER FACING THAT DIRECTION.

Q: AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE RINGING THE BELL, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER YOU COULD SEE ANY LIGHTS ON IN THE HOUSE?

A: THERE WAS ONE LIGHT ON UPSTAIRS.

Q: COULD YOU SEE ANY LIGHTS ON DOWNSTAIRS?

A: NO, I COULDN'T.

Q: DID IT APPEAR TO BE DARK DOWNSTAIRS?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT AS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE ANSWER IS STRICKEN. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW DID IT APPEAR DOWNSTAIRS IN THE HOUSE?

A: IT APPEARED TO BE NO LIGHTS ON.

MS. CLARK: I NEED TO GET THE PHONE RECORD EXHIBIT BACK, YOUR HONOR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED PREVIOUSLY AS PEOPLE'S 148.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: CAN EVERYBODY SEE THIS?

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED BEFORE WE BROKE THAT YOU CALLED YOUR BOSS' PAGER AND THAT WAS AT ABOUT 10:43?

A: YES.

Q: AND AFTER YOU CALLED YOUR BOSS' PAGER, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: WELL, AFTER I PAGED HIM, LIKE I SAID, I GOT BACK OUT OF THE CAR AND CONTINUED TO BUZZ THE INTERCOM A COUPLE MORE TIMES. STILL THERE WAS NO ANSWER, SO I -- THAT IS WHEN I GOT BACK INTO THE CAR AND PLACED ANOTHER PHONE CALL.

Q: OKAY. SO AFTER YOU BUZZED A COUPLE MORE TIMES, GOT NO ANSWER, WHEN YOU GOT INTO THE CAR --

MR. COCHRAN: WE WOULD LIKE TO OBJECT. RESTATING HIS TESTIMONY. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. I'M SORRY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED, SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU CALL YOUR BOSS AGAIN WHEN YOU GOT BACK IN THE CAR?

A: NOT HIM, NO.

Q: WHO DID YOU CALL?

A: I CALLED MY MOM.

Q: WHY?

A: TO GET A PHONE NUMBER FROM HER.

Q: AND WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

A: BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE IF THE PAGE WENT THROUGH SO I WANTED TO TRY HIS HOME PHONE BECAUSE SOMETIMES HE DOESN'T ANSWER HIS BUSINESS PHONE AFTER A CERTAIN -- CERTAIN TIME.

Q: AND WHAT PHONE NUMBER WERE YOU TRYING TO GET FROM YOUR MOTHER?

A: HIS HOME PHONE, HIS HOME PHONE NUMBER.

Q: YOUR BOSS' HOME PHONE NUMBER?

A: YES.

Q: AND LOOK AT THE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, IF YOU WOULD, SIR. DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE NEXT PHONE CALL IN TIME PLACED AT 10:46 AND THIRTY SECONDS. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PHONE NUMBER SHOWN HERE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND WHOSE PHONE NUMBER IS THAT?

A: THAT IS MY FATHER'S, WHICH MY MOM WAS AT.

Q: WHICH IS WHERE YOUR MOM WAS?

A: YEAH.

Q: DID YOU REACH YOUR MOTHER WHEN YOU DIALED THAT PHONE NUMBER?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HER, DID YOU?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: DO YOU RECALL EXACTLY HOW LONG THAT PHONE CALL LASTED WHEN YOU SPOKE TO HER?

A: EXACTLY HOW LONG? NO.

Q: ABOUT HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT LASTED?

A: TWO TO THREE MINUTES.

Q: WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO THE PRECISE AMOUNT OF TIME IF YOU WERE TO LOOK AT THE PHONE BILL INDICATING THE DURATION OF THE CALL?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. I'M POINTING OUT TO THE WITNESS THE PHONE CALL HE HAS JUST DESCRIBED ON THE BILL AND IT INDICATES UNDER "DURATION" TWO MINUTES 20 SECONDS. DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION, SIR?

A: YES, IT DOES.

Q: IS THAT ABOUT HOW LONG THAT PHONE CALL WAS?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, DID YOU GET SOME INFORMATION FROM YOUR MOTHER?

A: YES, I DID. SHE -- SHE GOT THE PHONE NUMBER FOR ME.

Q: AND AFTER SHE GOT THE PHONE NUMBER FOR YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: AT THAT TIME I DON'T REMEMBER IF I GOT OUT AND BUZZED ONE MORE TIME OR NOT, BUT I KNOW IT WAS JUST A FEW -- JUST A FEW SECONDS AFTER THAT I CALLED -- I CALLED HIS HOUSE.

Q: WHEN YOU SAY "HIS HOUSE," WHO IS THAT?

A: DALE ST. JOHN, MY BOSS.

Q: IS THERE A PHONE CALL INDICATED ON THAT PARTICULAR PHONE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, PEOPLE'S 148, THAT REFLECTS THE CALL MADE TO YOUR BOSS?

A: YES.

Q: AND IS THAT THE CALL PLACED -- DO YOU -- FIRST OF ALL, CAN YOU LOCATE THE PHONE NUMBER, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PHONE NUMBER AS YOUR BOSS' HOME PHONE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WAS THAT CALL PLACED AT 10:49:07?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU CALLED HIM AT 10:49:07, WAS DALE ST. JOHN AT HOME?

A: NO, HE WASN'T.

Q: DID YOU GET ANY ANSWER?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU GET AN ANSWERING MACHINE OR ANYTHING?

A: NOTHING.

Q: NO ANSWER AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: AFTER YOU CALLED YOUR BOSS AT HOME AND GOT NO ANSWER, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: UMM, I STEPPED BACK OUT OF THE CAR AND PROCEEDED TO RING THE BUZZER SOME MORE TIMES, STILL GOT NO ANSWER.

Q: OKAY. HOW MANY MORE TIMES DID YOU RING THE BUZZER AT THAT POINT, SIR?

A: I DON'T KNOW. TWO OR THREE.

Q: TWO OR THREE TIMES?

A: YEAH.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU RANG THE BUZZER AGAIN A COUPLE MORE TIMES AND GOT NO ANSWER, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THE NEXT THING I REMEMBERED WAS HEARING THE CAR PHONE RING INSIDE THE CAR AND GOT BACK IN AND PICKED UP THE PHONE AND IT WAS DALE ST. JOHN.

Q: OKAY. NOW, DO YOU SEE ON THE PHONE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR, A CALL AT 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND YOU INDICATED BEFORE YOU DON'T KNOW THE PHONE NUMBER OF YOUR -- WHAT YOUR LIMO WAS?

A: NO, NEVER CALLED IT.

Q: OKAY. BUT YOU SURMISED EARLIER THAT THAT WAS THE NUMBER INDICATED AT THIS PHONE CALL AT 10:52:17?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS IN THE EVENING, SIR, DID YOU SPEAK TO YOUR BOSS IN THE -- ON THE CAR PHONE IN THE STRETCH LIMO?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHEN YOU GOT OUT TO RING THE BUZZER JUST BEFORE YOU GOT THAT CALL, WAS YOUR DRIVER'S DOOR OPENED OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS OPENED.

Q: AND ON PREVIOUS -- ON THE TWO PREVIOUS OCCASIONS WHEN YOU INDICATED THAT YOU GOT OUT OF THE LIMO TO RING THE BELL, WAS THE DRIVER'S DOOR OPENED OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS OPENED. I LEFT IT OPENED.

Q: WHEN YOU SAT DOWN AT 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS TO SPEAK TO YOUR BOSS, DALE ST. JOHN, DID YOU LEAVE THE CAR -- THE DRIVER'S DOOR OPENED OR CLOSED?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, OPENED.

Q: AS YOU SAT IN THE CAR WERE YOU SEATED -- WHICH WAY WERE YOU FACING?

A: I WAS FACING LOOKING DOWN THE DRIVEWAY TOWARD THE HOUSE.

Q: SO YOU WERE -- WERE YOU FACING IN THROUGH THE GATE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS YOU SPOKE TO DALE ST. JOHN ON THE TELEPHONE, WERE YOU LOOKING AT THE DRIVEWAY AREA?

A: MOST OF THE TIME, YEAH. I MIGHT HAVE LOOKED AT THE DASHBOARD OR SOMETHING HERE OR THERE.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THE LIGHTING WAS LIKE IN THE DRIVEWAY AREA THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE?

A: THE LIGHTING? IT WASN'T -- IT WASN'T THAT BRIGHT. IT DIDN'T OFFER MUCH LIGHT AT ALL. I REMEMBER A LIGHT ON THE -- IN THE ENTRANCEWAY BY THE FRONT DOOR, AND FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, I THINK THERE WAS A LIGHT ABOVE THE GARAGE THAT DIDN'T OFFER MUCH LIGHT.

Q: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A DIAGRAM THAT YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY LOOKED AT, PEOPLE'S 66, AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO INDICATE FOR US ON THIS DIAGRAM -- YOU CAN STEP DOWN AND TAKE A POINTER.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

Q: FROM WHERE YOU WERE SEATED, SIR, AT THE ASHFORD GATE, WHAT PART OF THE DRIVEWAY LEADING OUT TO ROCKINGHAM WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE, IF ANY?

A: I WAS ABOUT TO THIS AREA, (INDICATING), JUST AROUND HERE. I WASN'T -- I COULDN'T SEE BEYOND THIS AT ALL.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS IS POINTING TO, IF YOU DREW A DIAGONAL LINE FROM THE NORTH --

THE COURT: WEST.

MS. CLARK: -- WEST CORNER OF THE GARAGE ACROSS THE DRIVEWAY, HE COULDN'T SEE PAST OR DOWN -- COULD HE NOT SEE SOUTH OF THAT POINT. WE ARE GOING TO DO IT ON THE ELMO IN A MINUTE.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THE LIGHTING LIKE FOR THE BALANCE OF THE DRIVEWAY THAT YOU COULD SEE?

A: IT WASN'T VERY BRIGHT AT ALL. THERE WAS SOME LIGHTING, BUT IT -- IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, IT WASN'T A VERY BRIGHT LIGHT, LIKE I SAID. THE BRIGHTEST LIGHT CAME FROM THIS AREA, (INDICATING).

Q: FROM THE ENTRANCE AREA?

A: UH-HUH.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS WAS INDICATING THE ENTRANCE AREA WHEN HE SAID "THIS AREA."

THE COURT: I ALSO GOT AN "UH-HUH" AS AN ANSWER.

MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY?

THE COURT: I ALSO GOT AN "UH-HUH" AS AN ANSWER.

MS. CLARK: "UH-HUH" FROM THE WITNESS?

THE COURT: YES.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: IS THAT WHAT YOU DID?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: YES? YOU CAN TAKE THE WITNESS STAND, SIR.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, DO WE NEED THE PHONE RECORD --

MS. CLARK: JUST FOR A LITTLE BIT MORE I DO AND THEN --

THE COURT: OKAY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. MR. PARK, IF YOU WOULD, DIRECT THE POINTER AGAIN TO INDICATE WHAT PART OF THE DRIVEWAY -- THAT BOUNDARY LINE THAT YOU INDICATED TO US BEFORE, AFTER WHICH YOU COULDN'T SEE ANYTHING. INDICATE TO US ON THIS -- HAVE THE POINTER DRAW THE LINE TO INDICATE WHAT WAS THE POINT AT WHICH YOUR VISIBILITY ENDED.

A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DOWN, LIKE YOU SAID, AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE GARAGE, AND IF YOU GO IN A DIAGONAL LINE ACROSS TO THE LAWN AREA --

MS. CLARK: I DON'T BELIEVE -- THAT IS NOT WHAT HE --

MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: ERASE THAT, PLEASE. LET HIM DIRECT YOU.

THE WITNESS: SAME SPOT WHERE YOU STARTED, BUT THE LINE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE DIAGONALLY. IT COULD HAVE CURVED MORE TOWARDS THE LAWN. IT WASN'T STRAIGHT ACROSS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IS THAT CORRECT SO FAR?

A: YES, YES.

Q: SHOULD HE KEEP GOING LIKE THAT?

A: YEAH. JUST ABOUT TO THERE, (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU INDICATED THAT THERE WAS SOME LIGHT WHERE? COULD YOU DIRECT --

A: UMM, WHERE THE WORD "ENTRANCE" IS OF THE HOUSE.

Q: YEAH. AND WHERE IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE WORD "ENTRANCE"?

A: UMM, JUST ABOUT -- THIS IS HARD TO DO WHEN YOU ARE NOT DOING IT YOURSELF HERE. UMM, JUST ABOUT THAT SQUARE PATIO AREA WOULD BE --

Q: TELL IT WHAT DIRECTION TO GO.

A: THAT WHOLE SQUARE PATIO WOULD BE FROM -- FROM EACH CORNER TO CORNER WOULD BE A CIRCLE AREA I WOULD SAY.

Q: A CIRCLE WITHIN THAT SQUARE?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 66-D, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: 66-D.

(PEO'S 66-D FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AS YOU WERE SEATED IN THE LIMOUSINE SPEAKING TO YOUR BOSS DID YOU -- DID YOU SAY SOMETHING TO YOUR BOSS?

A: YEAH. I TOLD HIM THAT I THOUGHT NOBODY WAS HOME.

Q: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED? DID HE RESPOND TO YOU?

A: YES. HE --

Q: DID HE TELL YOU TO DO SOMETHING?

A: WELL, HE ASKED ME TO --

Q: OKAY. WHAT DID YOUR BOSS TELL YOU?

A: WELL, FIRST HE TOLD ME, HE SAID -- HE SAID, "O.J.'S USUALLY RUNNING A LITTLE LATE SO HANG OUT UNTIL ABOUT 11:15. IF HE IS NOT THERE BY THEN, GO AHEAD AND COME ON HOME."

Q: OKAY.

A: HE ALSO ASKED -- BECAUSE I TOLD HIM THERE WAS NO LIGHTS ON DOWNSTAIRS -- HE ASKED ME TO LOOK AT THE PANTRY AREA, WHAT HE CALLED A PANTRY AREA WHERE THERE WAS WHAT RESEMBLED SOME SUNROOFS OR SKYLIGHTING TOWARD THE GARAGE AREA AND HE ASKED ME IF THERE WAS ANY LIGHTS ON IN THERE.

Q: OKAY.

A: HE SAID HE USUALLY WATCHES T.V. IN THERE.

Q: NOW, CAN YOU LOCATE THE AREA THAT HE WAS DIRECTING YOU TO LOOK AT ON THIS DIAGRAM?

A: JUST STRAIGHT DOWN FROM THE CIRCLE, RIGHT IN THAT AREA ON THE ROOF, I'M PRETTY SURE. IT IS HARD TO TELL WITH THIS KIND OF A DRAWING.

Q: OKAY. YOU THINK THAT WAS THE AREA?

A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU DO WHAT HE ASKED YOU TO DO? DID YOU LOOK?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE ANY LIGHTS ON IN THAT AREA?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AND DID YOU TELL HIM SO?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: NOW, THE -- YOU SEE THE AREA DESIGNATED AS "PLAY YARD"?

A: YES.

Q: THAT AREA, WAS THAT -- WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE IT? HOW IS IT LIT?

A: IT IS VERY DARK.

Q: AT SOME POINT DURING YOUR PHONE CONVERSATION WITH DALE ST. JOHN DID SOMETHING ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION?

A: YES. A WHITE MALE WALKED FROM BEHIND THE HOUSE AREA ON A PATHWAY AND HE HAD A FLASHLIGHT IN HIS HAND AND HE STOPPED -- HE STOPPED BEFORE HE GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY.

A: SO I -- I TOLD DALE THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY IS HOME.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME HAD YOU ALREADY LOOKED AT THE -- AT THE HOUSE, THE AREA THAT YOU WERE DIRECTED TO LOOK AT BY DALE ST. JOHN, TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY LIGHTS?

A: YES.

Q: AND AFTER YOU SAW THAT THERE WERE NO LIGHTS, WAS IT AFTER THAT POINT THAT YOU SAW THIS WHITE MALE?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: AND THAT PERSON THAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING, HAVE YOU SINCE LEARNED WHAT HIS NAME IS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT IS HIS NAME?

A: KATO.

Q: CAN YOU SHOW US ON THE DIAGRAM, DIRECT THE POINTER TO WHERE YOU SAW HIM ON THE SIDE YARD?

A: RIGHT THERE WHERE THE ARROW WAS WHERE THE PATH -- WHERE THE PATH COMES OUT FROM BEHIND THE HOUSE. HE CAME OUT TO JUST ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY, RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).

Q: WAS HE ON THE DRIVEWAY OR WAS HE ON THE GRASS?

A: NO, HE WAS OFF A COUPLE FEET.

Q: OKAY. TELL THE POINTER WHERE TO GO.

A: JUST RIGHT -- RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. WAS HE ON THE GRASS OR ON THE PATH?

A: I COULDN'T SEE.

Q: YOU COULDN'T TELL?

A: NO.

Q: SO IS THAT THE GENERAL LOCATION WHERE HE WAS?

A: YES.

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHAT KIND OF FLASHLIGHT HE HAD?

A: AT THAT TIME, NO.

Q: WHAT WAS HE DOING WHEN YOU SAW HIM?

A: HE WAS JUST STANDING THERE, FROM WHAT I OBSERVED.

Q: OKAY. COULD YOU TELL WHERE HE WAS LOOKING OR WHAT HE WAS DOING?

A: HE LOOKED AT ME AND THEN HE JUST -- HE STARTED TO LOOK, YOU KNOW, IN THE AREA OF THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY.

Q: NOW, WHEN HE WAS LOOKING AT YOU, WHERE WERE YOU?

A: I WAS INSIDE THE CAR ON THE PHONE.

Q: TALKING TO YOUR BOSS?

A: YES.

Q: HOW LONG -- NOW, AT THE SAME TIME THAT YOU SAW KATO KAELIN IN THE SIDE YARD, DID YOU SEE ANYTHING ELSE?

A: YES. I SAW A FIGURE COME DOWN -- WELL, NOT COME DOWN, BUT I SAW A FIGURE COME INTO THE ENTRANCEWAY OF THE HOUSE JUST ABOUT WHERE THE -- WHERE THE DRIVEWAY STARTS.

Q: CAN YOU SHOW US ON THIS DIAGRAM WHERE YOU FIRST SAW THAT PERSON?

A: UMM, JUST IF YOU GO WHERE THE CIRCLE IS, GO STRAIGHT BACK -- NO, THE OTHER WAY, A LITTLE BIT FARTHER. IT WAS ABOUT THERE, (INDICATING), AROUND THAT AREA.

Q: OKAY. ROUGHLY THAT AREA?

A: YEAH.

Q: OKAY. CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE PERSON THAT YOU SAW -- WAS THAT THE FIRST POINT AT WHICH YOU SAW THE PERSON?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE, WHAT THAT PERSON LOOKED LIKE.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: SIX FOOT, 200 POUNDS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIX FOOT, 200 POUNDS?

A: ALL DARK CLOTHING.

Q: AND COULD YOU TELL ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THIS PERSON?

A: NO.

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THE PERSON WAS CAUCASIAN OR AFRICAN AMERICAN?

A: BLACK.

Q: OKAY. AND HOW -- IN RELATIONSHIP TO WHEN YOU SAW KATO KAELIN, WHEN DID YOU FIRST SEE THIS PERSON?

A: IT WAS JUST -- IT WAS ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY. IT WAS SECONDS AFTER I SAW HIM.

Q: AND THIS SIX-FOOT 200-POUND AFRICAN AMERICAN PERSON IN ALL DARK CLOTHING, WAS THIS PERSON MOVING QUICKLY OR SLOWLY?

A: NOT QUICKLY, NOT SLOWLY, A GOOD PACE WALK IT SEEMED TO BE.

Q: AND MOVING IN WHAT DIRECTION, SIR?

A: INTO THE HOUSE OR TOWARD THE HOUSE.

Q: DID YOU FORM AN OPINION AS TO WHETHER THIS WAS A MALE OR FEMALE?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT PERSON, DID THAT PERSON WALK INTO THE ENTRANCE?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE." HE SAID, "FINE, FINISH THE JOB, TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW" OR WHATEVER. I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I STILL WAITED ANOTHER -- IT WAS ABOUT ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS OR SO BEFORE I GOT OUT OF THE CAR, BUT I WAS STILL WAITING FOR SOME SOMEBODY TO COME OPEN THE GATE. I FIGURED SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO COME OPEN THE GATE FOR ME. THEY STILL DIDN'T.

Q: HOW LONG AFTER YOU SAW THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON IN ALL DARK CLOTHING GO INTO THE HOUSE DID YOU CONTINUE TO TALK TO DALE ST. JOHN?

A: OH, IT WAS JUST ANYWHERE BETWEEN TEN TO THIRTY SECONDS. IT WASN'T VERY LONG.

Q: OKAY. SO ON THE PHONE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR, ON THAT LAST CALL WHERE IT INDICATES 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS, DOES IT INDICATE HOW LONG THE PHONE CALL WAS FOR, THE DURATION OF THE CALL?

A: UMM, YES, TWO MINUTES AND 55 SECONDS.

Q: OKAY. DOES THAT COMPORT WITH YOUR MEMORY OF THE LENGTH OF THE PHONE CALL?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO YOU WOULD HAVE HUNG UP WITH HIM AT 10:55 AND 12 SECONDS?

A: YES.

Q: AND IT WAS WITHIN THE LAST TEN TO THIRTY SECONDS OF THAT CALL AT 10 -- OF ENDING THAT CALL AT 10:55 THAT YOU SAW THIS SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON GO INTO THE ENTRANCE?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER YOU HUNG UP WITH DALE ST. JOHN YOU SAID YOU SAT FOR ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS OR SO?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO OBJECT, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHY WAS THAT?

MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE AND WE COVERED THIS.

MS. CLARK: THAT WAS FOUNDATIONAL, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AFTER YOU -- YOU INDICATED THAT YOU SAT FOR ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS. WHY DID YOU SIT FOR ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS IN YOUR CAR AFTER YOU HUNG UP?

A: BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR THE GATE TO BE OPENED. I FIGURED SOMEBODY IS HOME, THEY SAW ME AND THEY ARE GOING TO LET ME IN.

Q: AND DID KATO KAELIN COME OVER TO LET YOU IN?

A: NO, HE DIDN'T.

Q: AND DID THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON DRESSED IN ALL DARK CLOTHING COME TO LET YOU IN?

A: NO.

Q: AND AFTER THIRTY SECONDS WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: THAT IS WHEN I GOT BACK UP AND OUT OF THE CAR AND RANG THE INTERCOM. THIS TIME THERE WAS AN ANSWER, WHICH WAS MR. SIMPSON. HE TOLD ME THAT HE OVERSLEPT AND HE JUST GOT OUT OF THE SHOWER AND HE WOULD BE DOWN IN A MINUTE.

Q: OKAY. HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU HAVE TO RING THE BUZZER THIS TIME BEFORE IT WAS ANSWERED?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU HAVE TO RING THE BUZZER.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

THE WITNESS: CAN YOU REPEAT IT?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU HAVE TO RING THE BUZZER THIS TIME BEFORE IT WAS ANSWERED?

A: OH, IT WAS JUST -- HE ANSWERED IT PRETTY MUCH IMMEDIATELY.

Q: AS SOON AS YOU RANG?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN HE SAID TO YOU --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHEN YOU HEARD THE VOICE SAY TO YOU, "I'M SORRY, I OVERSLEPT," DID YOU RECOGNIZE THAT VOICE?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THIS HAS BEEN COVERED.

THE WITNESS: YES, I DID.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE ALSO, THAT LAST STATEMENT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHOSE VOICE WAS IT?

A: MR. SIMPSON'S.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SAY HE SAID TO YOU?

A: THAT HE OVERSLEPT --

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. WE ALL HEARD IT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: HE OVERSLEPT, HE JUST GOT OUT OF THE SHOWER AND HE WOULD BE DOWN IN A MINUTE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, HAD YOU EVER HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE BEFORE?

A: YES.

Q: HOW HAD YOU HEARD IT BEFORE?

A: ON T.V. COMMENTARY, SPORTS.

Q: IS THAT HOW YOU RECOGNIZED IT?

A: YES.

Q: COULD YOU TELL, WHEN YOU SAW THAT SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON WALK INTO THE ENTRANCE, COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THAT PERSON WAS COMING FROM THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY OR FROM THE AREA OF THE GARAGE FROM THE SOUTH PATHWAY?

A: NO, I COULDN'T.

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THAT PERSON HAD ANYTHING IN HIS HAND -- IN THEIR HANDS?

A: NO.

Q: WHEN THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE OF THE HOUSE, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER THERE WAS ANY CHANGE IN THE LIGHTING IN THE HOUSE?

A: SOME LIGHTS CAME ON DOWNSTAIRS, YES.

Q: AND WAS THAT IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE PERSON ENTERED THE HOUSE?

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY.

Q: HOW LONG AFTER THAT PERSON ENTERED THE HOUSE, THE FRONT ENTRANCE, DID THE LIGHTS GO ON DOWNSTAIRS?

A: JUST SECONDS.

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHICH LIGHTS WENT ON?

A: NO. I JUST -- I JUST SAW -- YOU KNOW, FROM THE -- FROM THE WINDOWS AND THE CURTAINS THEY ILLUMINATED. I COULDN'T TELL YOU WHERE THE HEIGHTS CAME FROM, NO.

Q: AFTER THAT SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON WENT INTO THE HOUSE, DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHERE MR. KAELIN WAS?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBERED, HE WAS STILL STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK.

Q: DID HE ACKNOWLEDGE YOU IN ANY WAY AFTER THAT PERSON WENT INTO THE HOUSE?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, HE KIND OF GAVE ME A HAND GESTURE TO LET ME KNOW HE WAS THERE.

Q: AND THAT WAS AFTER THE SIX-FOOT PERSON WENT INTO THE HOUSE?

A: I'M PRETTY SURE, YES.

Q: THAT PERSON THAT YOU SAW GO INTO THE HOUSE, DID HE LOOK LIKE SOMEONE YOU RECOGNIZED?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE LOOK LIKE MR. SIMPSON?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I COULDN'T TELL WHO IT WAS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID IT APPEAR TO BE THE SAME SIZE AS MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: SAME HEIGHT AND WEIGHT?

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: AROUND THERE.

Q: WAS MR. KAELIN EVER ON THE DRIVEWAY AT THE SAME TIME AS THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON THAT WENT INTO THE HOUSE?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: AFTER YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON -- STRIKE THAT. HOW LONG AFTER YOU SAW THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON GO INTO THE HOUSE DID YOU SPEAK TO MR. SIMPSON ON THE INTERCOM?

MR. COCHRAN: I THINK THIS HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. I'M SORRY, I'M GOING TO OVERRULE THAT. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

THE WITNESS: IT HAD --

THE COURT: DIFFERENT QUESTION ON LIGHTS.

THE WITNESS: IT HAD TO HAVE BEEN ANYWHERE BETWEEN THIRTY SECONDS TO A MINUTE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND AFTER YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON ON THE INTERCOM, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I GOT BACK INTO THE CAR AND WAITED ANOTHER TWENTY, THIRTY SECONDS AND BEFORE MR. KAELIN CAME OVER AND OPENED THE GATE.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU -- AFTER YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON YOU GOT BACK IN THE CAR?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND HOW LONG AFTER THAT DID MR. KAELIN COME OVER TO THE GATE?

A: TWENTY OR THIRTY SECONDS.

Q: OKAY. AND DID HE OPEN THE GATE FOR YOU?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, YES.

Q: AND WHEN WE ARE INDICATING MR. SIMPSON, SIR, IS THAT SOMEBODY YOU SEE IN COURT TODAY?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: CAN YOU PLEASE POINT HIM OUT.

A: HE IS OVER HERE BY MR. SHAPIRO, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH?

THE COURT: GOOD ENOUGH.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, COULD I ASK THE COURT TO ASK THE DEFENDANT TO STAND FOR A MOMENT, PLEASE.

THE COURT: OKAY.

(THE DEFENDANT COMPLIES.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU HAVE SEEN THE DEFENDANT, MR. PARK?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US IF THAT APPEARS TO BE THE SIZE OF THE PERSON THAT YOU SAW ENTER THE FRONT ENTRANCE OF THE HOUSE AT ROCKINGHAM?

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR, A COUPLE TIMES.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES, AROUND THE SIZE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU -- WHILE YOU WERE SPEAKING TO MR. SIMPSON, WERE YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT MR. KAELIN WAS DOING?

A: WHILE I WAS ON THE INTERCOM WITH HIM?

Q: RIGHT.

A: NO.

Q: SO DID YOU SEE WHAT MOVEMENTS MR. KAELIN MADE OR WHERE HE WENT OR WHAT HE DID WHILE YOU WERE SPEAKING TO THE DEFENDANT?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU PULL INTO THE DRIVEWAY AFTER MR. KAELIN OPENED THE GATE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I DROVE IN, PULLED THE CAR INTO THE DRIVEWAY WITH MY DRIVER'S WINDOW PARALLEL WITH HIS FRONT DOOR, POPPED THE TRUNK AND GOT OUT OF THE CAR.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: AT THAT TIME MR. KAELIN CAME OVER TO ME AND SAID A FEW THINGS LIKE "IS MR. SIMPSON RUNNING LATE OR" --

MR. COCHRAN: HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HE ASKED YOU A QUESTION?

A: I COULDN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS A QUESTION OR NOT. I DON'T --

THE COURT: HOLD ON. NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU REMEMBER IF HE ASKED YOU A QUESTION?

A: YEAH. HE ASKED ME IF I FELT AN EARTHQUAKE.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: MOVE TO STRIKE AFTER "YES."

MS. CLARK: SUSTAINED WHAT?

THE COURT: IT IS HEARSAY. AND MR. PARK, LET ME ASK YOU JUST TO LISTEN CAREFULLY TO THE QUESTION AND ANSWER ONLY THE QUESTION THAT IS BEING ASKED OF YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR. MISS CLARK.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, WHEN YOU FIRST PULLED UP INTO THE DRIVEWAY, WHERE DID YOU PARK?

A: I PARKED WITH MY DRIVER'S SIDE WINDOW PARALLEL WITH THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU NOTICE THE FRONT DOOR AREA WHEN YOU DID THAT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT -- WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: THE FRONT DOOR WAS OPENED AND THERE WERE A COUPLE OF BAGS ON THE PORCH.

Q: DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT KIND OF BAGS WERE ON THE PORCH?

A: BLACK DUFFLE BAGS.

Q: CAN YOU SHOW US WITH YOUR HAND HOW BIG THEY WERE?

A: UMM, ABOUT THIS SIZE, (INDICATING).

THE COURT: 36 INCHES.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD -- FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS HAS HELD UP HIS HAND IN WHAT APPEARS TO BE 36 INCHES.

Q: AND HOW HIGH?

A: FOOT AND HALF, TWO FEET.

MS. CLARK: AND THE WITNESS SO GESTURED WITH HIS HANDS, IT APPEARS.

Q: HOW FAR OPENED WAS THE FRONT DOOR WHEN YOU FIRST PULLED UP TO THE FRONT ENTRANCE?

A: THAT I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: AND THE DUFFLE BAGS THAT YOU SAW, COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THEY WERE ZIPPED OR UNZIPPED?

A: ONE WAS UNZIPPED.

Q: AT THAT POINT WAS THE DEFENDANT OUTSIDE WITH YOU WHEN YOU FIRST PULLED UP?

A: NO, HE WASN'T.

Q: AFTER YOU POPPED THE TRUNK, DID YOU GET OUT OF THE CAR?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN ABOUT AN EARTHQUAKE?

A: YES. HE ASKED ME IF I FELT ONE.

MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT. MOVE TO STRIKE AFTER "YES."

MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WITH COUNSEL AND THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: WE ARE OVER AT SIDE BAR.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: FIRST OF ALL, I DON'T KNOW HOW A QUESTION CAN EVER BE HEARSAY BECAUSE THERE IS NO TRUTH OF THE MATTER ASSERTED.

THE COURT: THE QUESTION CALLS FOR HEARSAY.

MS. CLARK: HOW DOES IT CALL FOR HEARSAY?

THE COURT: DID HE SAY SOMETHING TO YOU ABOUT AN EARTHQUAKE? THE QUESTION IS ASKING FOR A HEARSAY ANSWER.

MS. CLARK: THEN I ASKED HIM DID HE ASK YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THAT OR HE ASKED ME A QUESTION AND WHAT WAS THE QUESTION. I'M POINTING OUT WHERE THE TESTIMONY IS GOING BECAUSE MAYBE WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS.

THE COURT: OKAY.

MS. CLARK: THE QUESTION IS THAT I'M TRYING TO ELICIT FROM HIM, HE ASKED HIM DID YOU FEEL AN EARTHQUAKE.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, THERE A SIGN I WAS JUST GOING TO GET OVER HERE FOR YOU, BUT I COULDN'T FIND IT.

MS. CLARK: I HAVE IT.

MR. COCHRAN: SHE HAS TO BRING SOMETHING OVER FOR YOU TO SEE. THIS WILL JUST TAKE A SECOND.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOU SEE THIS? OKAY. SO WHAT IS THE OFFER OF PROOF?

MS. CLARK: COME ON, YOU GUYS.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: THERE IS ANOTHER QUESTION. HE IS GOING TO ASK PARK FOR A FLASHLIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: TELL ME AN OFFER OF PROOF.

MS. CLARK: I DON'T KNOW HOW A QUESTION CAN BE HEARSAY. I DON'T KNOW THAT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER CAN BE ASSERTED IN A QUESTION BUT --

THE COURT: THE OBJECTION IS MADE.

MS. CLARK: UH-HUH.

MS. CLARK: AND THE RESPONSE IS IT IS NOT ASSERTED FOR THE TRUTH THE MATTER; IT IS JUST A QUESTION.

MR. COCHRAN: IT IS IRRELEVANT. THAT IS ANOTHER RESPONSE.

THE COURT: YOUR ARGUMENT IS TO EXPLAIN HIS SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT IN ASKING FOR THE FLASHLIGHT AND THEN WANDERING AROUND THE SIDE YARD?

MS. CLARK: EXACTLY.

MR. COCHRAN: SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT.

THE COURT: OFFERED FOR A NON-HEARSAY PURPOSE IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

MS. CLARK: YES, AND FOR THIS WITNESS'S SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT AS WELL, BECAUSE HE WAS ABOUT TO ASSIST IN THE SEARCH.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT CAN'T HELP WITH US KATO KAELIN BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS IF IT IS BEING OFFERED TO SHOW THAT KATO KAELIN IS A PRIOR STATEMENT OR PRIOR INCONSISTENT ACTIVITY. IT IS BEING OFFERED FOR THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER ASSERTED, YOUR HONOR, AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM. WE HAD AN AGREEMENT IF SHE TELLS ME WHAT IS COMING UP, IF IT IS INNOCUOUS, I DON'T CARE. I DON'T WANT YOU TO MAKE THAT SO WHAT OBJECTION AGAIN.

MS. CLARK: DO YOU CARE? THAT IS IT.

MR. COCHRAN: SO WHAT IS HE GOING TO SAY?

MS. CLARK: THAT KATO ASKED IF THERE WAS AN EARTHQUAKE, HE SAID, YOU KNOW HE DIDN'T FEEL ONE OR WHATEVER AND THEY WENT ON ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS AND AT SOME POINT HE ASKED HIM FOR A -- HE ASKED HIM FOR A FLASHLIGHT, IF HE HAD A FLASHLIGHT. I MEAN, IS THIS A BIG DEAL?

MR. COCHRAN: IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL. I WILL WITHDRAW.

THE COURT: OKAY.

MR. COCHRAN: AND I WILL HELP HER REHABILITATE HER WITNESS.

THE COURT: OKAY.

MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE?

THE COURT: THE OBJECTION IS WITHDRAWN. THANK YOU. PROCEED.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL WITHDRAW THE OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

THE COURT: I THINK WE WERE DISCUSSING MR. KAELIN.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU FIRST PULLED INTO THE DRIVEWAY AND GOT OUT OF THE CAR, DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID HE ASK YOU A QUESTION?

A: YES, HE DID.

Q: WHAT DID HE ASK YOU?

A: HE ASKED ME IF I FELT AN EARTHQUAKE.

Q: DID YOU FEEL ONE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU HAVE SOME FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH HIM ABOUT THAT SUBJECT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: HOW DID HE APPEAR TO YOU, HIS DEMEANOR WHEN HE WAS DISCUSSING THAT SUBJECT OF THE EARTHQUAKE?

A: HIS -- LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I HAVE NEVER MET THIS GUY, SO I -- HE SEEMED NORMAL TO ME.

Q: DID HE -- WAS HE EXCITED, CALM, NONCHALANT, HYPER?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. IF HE SAYS "YES," WE WON'T KNOW WHICH ONE.

MS. CLARK: I AM ASKING HIM TO PICK ONE SO I WON'T BE LEADING.

THE COURT: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

MS. CLARK: ONE OF THE ABOVE.

THE COURT: NO, I DON'T THINK IT WORKS QUITE THAT WAY.

MR. COCHRAN: I DON'T THINK SO. TRY AGAIN.

THE WITNESS: IF ANYTHING, HE SEEMED CONCERNED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CONCERNED?

A: YEAH.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTER YOU HAD THAT CONVERSATION? DID HE THEN ASK YOU FOR SOMETHING?

A: NOT AT THAT POINT, NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: HE ASKED ME WHERE I DROVE UP FROM.

Q: OKAY?

A: HE REFERRED TO SOMETHING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HIS -- "IS O.J. RUNNING LATE" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THAT SENSE.

Q: OKAY.

A: THAT WAS ABOUT IT.

Q: OKAY. AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: UMM, I WAS STILL WAITING FOR THE DEFENDANT TO COME OUT. HE -- MR. KAELIN WALKED TO THE CORNER OF THE GARAGE.

Q: THAT IS AN AREA YOU CAN SHOW US ON THE DIAGRAM THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 66 -- E? THIS ONE WILL BE MARKED E, 66-E, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(PEO'S 66-E FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU PLEASE DIRECT THE POINTER?

A: YES. IT WOULD BE THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF WHERE THE WHITE LINE IS DRAWN, DOWN A LITTLE FARTHER TO THAT CORNER, RIGHT AROUND THERE, (INDICATING). A LITTLE FARTHER OUT ONTO THE DRIVEWAY, THOUGH. NO. BACK DOWN. RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING). THERE YOU GO. RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. CAN WE DO A "K.K." OR JUST ONE? THAT IS FINE.

Q: OKAY. WHAT DID HE DO WHEN HE GOT TO THAT CORNER OF THE GARAGE?

A: AT THAT POINT HE STOPPED AND I WAS OVER TOWARDS THE FRONT WALKWAY BY THE ENTRANCE, AND I WAS PETTING THE DOG.

Q: WHAT KIND OF DOG WAS THAT?

A: I THINK IT WAS A CHOW, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER.

Q: WHAT COLOR WAS IT?

A: BLACK.

Q: DID THAT DOG BARK AT YOU AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: FRIENDLY?

A: YEAH.

Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE PETTING THE DOG, WHAT WAS MR. KAELIN DOING?

A: HE STARTED CALLING THE DOG. THE DOG WAS LIKING THE ATTENTION SO HE WASN'T GOING ANYWHERE.

Q: THE DOG STAYED WITH YOU, DID HE?

A: MOSTLY, YEAH.

Q: THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: I THINK HE YELLED AT THE DOG A LITTLE LOUDER AND IT STARTED TO GO OVER TOWARD HIM. I WAS JUST WAITING. AT THAT POINT I WASN'T WATCHING WHETHER HE WALKED AROUND OR NOT.

Q: SO DID YOU START TO PUT THE BAGS IN THE CAR, EITHER IN THE TRUNK OR IN THE PASSENGER SEAT OR ANYTHING AT THAT POINT?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHY NOT?

A: BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR MR. SIMPSON TO COME DOWN. I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW IF HE WANTED TO TAKE THOSE BAGS.

Q: OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: AT ABOUT THAT TIME MR. SIMPSON CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU REMEMBER WHAT HE WAS WEARING WHEN THE DEFENDANT CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE?

A: WHEN HE CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE HE HAD SOME STONE WASHED JEANS AND A WHITE-COLLARED SHIRT AND HE HAD A BLACK COAT WITH HIM. I DON'T REMEMBER IF HE WAS WEARING IT OR CARRYING IT.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: HE CARRIED DOWN WHAT LOOKED LIKE A GUCCI BAG WITH HIM THAT FOLDED IN HALF, SEEMED TO BE SOME TYPE OF GARMENT BAG. HE CAME OUT AND SET THAT ON THE GROUND NEXT TO THE BAGS, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, AND FROM THERE I PICKED IT UP AND PUT THAT INTO THE TRUNK. AT THAT TIME I SEEM TO REMEMBER HE WALKED OVER TO THE CARS.

Q: OKAY. LET ME BACK YOU UP FOR A MINUTE. CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, APPROXIMATELY HOW LONG IT WAS BETWEEN THE TIME YOU SAW THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON DRESSED IN ALL DARK CLOTHING GO INTO THE HOUSE AND THE TIME YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON COME OUT THE FRONT ENTRANCE?

A: IT WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND FIVE OR SIX MINUTES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU HAD THE CONVERSATION WITH KATO AT THE FRONT ENTRANCE, SIR, DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER HE HAD ANYTHING IN HIS HANDS?

A: YEAH. HE HAD A FLASHLIGHT.

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THE BEAM WAS DIM OR STRONG?

A: IT WAS PRETTY DIM. IT WAS A SMALL LIGHT.

Q: WHEN MR. SIMPSON DID COME OUT OF THE HOUSE, SIR, DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?

A: DID I?

Q: DID YOU?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO YOU?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN THE DEFENDANT CAME OUT, WHERE WAS KATO?

A: HE WAS OUT IN THE FRONT WITH ME ON THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY. WAS HE STANDING NEXT TO YOU OR WAS HE WALKING? CAN YOU TELL US?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: OKAY.

A: I KNOW HE WAS OUT IN THE AREA. I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS STANDING RIGHT THERE.

Q: WAS HE COMING BACK FROM THE GARAGE AREA?

A: HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN.

Q: OKAY.

A: I REMEMBER HIM SAYING, YOU KNOW, "HI, JUICE" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: AT THAT TIME I PUT THE GUCCI BAG INTO THE TRUNK AND FROM -- FROM WHAT I REMEMBER MR. SIMPSON WALKED OVER TO THE CARS, WHAT HE WAS DOING, GRABBING, I DON'T KNOW.

Q: WHEN YOU SAY "OVER TO THE CARS," WHAT DIRECTION DID YOU SEE HIM WALK IN?

A: TOWARD THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: OKAY. COULD YOU SEE IF HE WENT OUT THROUGH THE ROCKINGHAM GATE OR NOT?

A: NO.

Q: YOU JUST SAW HIM WALK IN THAT DIRECTION?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU HAPPEN -- THE GUCCI -- THE GARMENT BAG THAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING AS A GUCCI BAG, THE DEFENDANT DID NOT PUT THAT IN THE CAR HIMSELF?

A: NO, I DID.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT AS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID YOU SEE HIM DO WITH IT? WHEN HE BROUGHT IT DOWNSTAIRS, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT GARMENT BAG?

A: WHAT I REMEMBER, HE EITHER SET IT DOWN NEAR THE OTHER BAGS OR HE HANDED IT TO ME.

Q: OKAY. AND AFTER YOU PUT THAT BAG IN THE TRUNK, WHERE DID THE DEFENDANT GO?

A: TOWARD THE ROCKINGHAM GATE OR IN THAT AREA.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: UMM, WELL, WE STARTED PUTTING BAGS INTO THE CAR. HE WALKED OVER AND FROM WHAT I REMEMBER GRABBED THE -- THE GOLF CLUBS.

Q: WHO DID THAT?

A: MR. SIMPSON.

Q: OKAY.

A: WHICH --

Q: DID YOU SEE HIM CARRYING GOLF CLUBS WITH HIM?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON WITH GOLF CLUBS?

A: WELL, I SAW HIM HAND THEM TO KATO.

Q: AND WHERE WAS THAT, THAT YOU SAW HIM HAND GOLF CLUBS TO KATO?

A: JUST TOWARD THE FRONT OF THE LIMOUSINE.

Q: AND WAS THAT AFTER HE HAD GONE DOWN IN THE DIRECTION OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID KATO DO WITH THE GOLF BAG?

A: HE PUT THEM IN THE TRUNK.

Q: THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: AFTER THAT MR. SIMPSON WENT INTO THE HOUSE A FEW TIMES, TWO OR THREE TIMES HE WAS COMING IN AND OUT.

Q: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM BRING ANY MORE BAGS OUT?

A: OF THE HOUSE?

Q: YES.

A: NO.

Q: WAS THE GARMENT BAG THE ONLY BAG THAT HE BROUGHT OUT?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, YES.

Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS THAT -- WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME THAT HE CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE THAT HE BROUGHT THAT BAG WITH HIM?

A: I THINK SO.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THE FIRST TIME HE CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE? VAGUE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: WHY IS THAT VAGUE?

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS THE FIRST OR THE SECOND.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. WELL, HOW MANY BAGS DID THE DEFENDANT BRING OUT OF THE HOUSE WITH HIM?

A: JUST ONE.

Q: GARMENT BAG?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AFTER THAT POINT HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU SEE HIM GO IN AND OUT OF THE HOUSE?

A: TWO OR THREE.

Q: OKAY. AND DID ANY MORE BAGS COME OUT WITH HIM? DID HE BRING ANY MORE BAGS OUT WITH HIM ON THOSE OCCASIONS?

A: NO.

Q: WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE WHAT HE WAS DOING INSIDE THE HOUSE WHEN HE WENT BACK IN?

A: NO.

Q: YOU INDICATED EARLIER THAT AT SOME POINT YOU SAW THE DEFENDANT WALK DOWN IN THE DIRECTION OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER WHICH YOU SAW -- I THINK YOU SAID YOU SAW HIM COME BACK WITH GOLF CLUBS; IS THAT RIGHT?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO RESTATING, NOT FOUNDATIONAL. ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THAT OBJECTION. I THINK IT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: YOU SAID YOU SAW THE DEFENDANT GO DOWN TOWARD THE ROCKINGHAM GATE AT SOME POINT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: OKAY. WHEN HE -- DID YOU SEE HIM AFTER HE WENT DOWN TOWARDS THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DID HE HAVE ANYTHING IN HIS HANDS AT THAT POINT?

A: THE GOLF CLUBS.

Q: OKAY. AND THOSE ARE THE GOLF CLUBS HE GAVE TO KATO?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER THAT, DID YOU SEE HIM GO BACK INTO -- AFTER GOING IN AND OUT OF THE HOUSE A COUPLE TIMES DID EVER YOU SEE HIM GO BACK DOWN TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE IN THAT -- NOT TO THE GATE, BUT IN THAT DIRECTION?

A: YES.

Q: HOW MANY TIMES?

A: UMM, AFTER HE GOT THE GOLF CLUBS?

Q: YES.

A: ONCE OR TWICE.

Q: DID YOU SEE WHAT, IF ANYTHING, HE BROUGHT BACK WITH HIM AT -- ON EITHER THAT ONCE OR TWICE THAT HE WENT BACK IN THE DIRECTION OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE AFTER HE HAD GOTTEN THE GOLF CLUBS?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: IS IT THAT YOU DON'T REMEMBER OR THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING WITH HIM WHEN HE CAME BACK?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AFTER THE -- AFTER KATO PUT THE GOLF CLUBS INTO THE TRUNK, DID SOMETHING EVER OCCUR WITH THE DUFFEL BAG THAT YOU SAW IN THE FRONT ENTRANCE WHEN YOU FIRST PULLED UP?

A: YES. IT WAS -- MR. SIMPSON WAS WALKING BY ONE OF THE TIMES, I ASKED HIM WHERE HE WOULD LIKE THOSE BAGS, IN THE TRUNK OR INSIDE THE CAR? HE ASKED ME TO PUT THEM INSIDE THE CAR.

Q: AND DID YOU DO THAT, SIR?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: DID YOU EVER RESUME YOUR CONVERSATION WITH KATO ABOUT THE NOISES, THE EARTHQUAKE?

A: YES. HE CAME BACK AND ASKED ME IF I -- IF I HAD A FLASHLIGHT, WHICH I WENT TO THE CAR TO CHECK AND AS I WAS CHECKING I REMEMBER HIM SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE THOUGHT -- HE THOUGHT -- WE HAD AN EARTHQUAKE, HE TALKED ABOUT A PICTURE MOVING ON HIS WALL, THAT HE HEARD SOME THUMPS AND THAT HE WANTED A FLASHLIGHT SO HE CAN -- TO GO CHECK IT OUT. AND AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT, I THINK HE WAS -- SOMEWHERE HE WAS REFERRING TO THE EARTHQUAKE, MR. SIMPSON OVERHEARD US, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, AND HE SAID -- AS A QUESTION HE SAID, "OH, WE HAD AN EARTHQUAKE?" AS HE WAS WALKING BACK INTO THE HOUSE.

Q: AND THEN DID HE HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: AT THAT TIME? I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: DID HE WALK INTO THE HOUSE AFTER MAKING THAT REMARK TO YOU, "OH, WE HAD AN EARTHQUAKE?"?

A: WHO?

Q: MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID KATO KAELIN DO AFTER MR. SIMPSON WALKED INTO THE HOUSE?

A: OH, I TOLD HIM I DIDN'T HAVE A FLASHLIGHT AND FROM THERE ON OUT I DON'T REMEMBER WHERE HE WENT. I DON'T KNOW IF HE WENT INTO THE HOUSE OR NOT AT THAT TIME.

Q: DID MR. SIMPSON COME BACK OUT OF THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: UMM, SOMEWHERE IN THERE, ONE OF THOSE TIMES THERE WAS A -- THERE WAS ANOTHER BAG ON THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: WHAT KIND OF BAG WAS THAT?

A: IT WAS ANOTHER -- SEEMED TO BE SMALL DUFFEL BAG.

Q: CAN YOU SHOW US WITH YOUR HANDS HOW BIG THAT BAG WAS?

A: FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER -- I SAW IT AT A DISTANCE. FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER, IT WAS SMALLER THAN THE OTHER TWO. IT WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, A FOOT AND A HALF -- ABOUT A FOOT A HALF. A FOOT AND A HALF BY A HALF A FOOT. IT WASN'T VERY BIG, (INDICATING).

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHAT COLOR IT WAS?

A: IT SEEMED TO BE DARK.

Q: WHERE DID YOU SEE IT?

A: UMM --

Q: IF YOU CAN LOCATE THE AREA ON THIS DIAGRAM.

A: IT WAS OVER HERE ON THE ROCKINGHAM -- ON THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY A LITTLE FARTHER TOWARD THE HOUSE. KEEP GOING. UP TO -- GO UP A LITTLE BIT. RIGHT -- RIGHT AROUND THERE SOMEWHERE, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: COULD YOU PUT A "B" THERE FOR BAG.

Q: IS THAT ABOUT RIGHT, SIR?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT.

THE COURT: AND THAT MARKING IS ON PEOPLE'S --

MS. CLARK: 66-E.

THE COURT: YES.

(PEO'S 66-E FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT DREW YOUR ATTENTION TO THAT BAG?

A: WHAT -- WHEN -- I THINK IT WAS WHEN -- WHEN MR. SIMPSON GAVE KATO THE GOLF BAGS, I WAS KIND OF LOOKING IN THAT AREA. I SAW IT ON THE GROUND.

Q: OKAY. NOW, WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT BAG?

A: UMM, IT WAS SOMETIME WHEN -- WHEN KATO WAS ASKING ME FOR A FLASHLIGHT, WE WERE STANDING AROUND THE CAR AND MR. SIMPSON CAME BACK OUT.

Q: OUT OF WHERE?

A: I COULDN'T REMEMBER. HE JUST CAME TOWARD THE CAR. WE WERE TOWARD THE BACK OF THE TRUNK.

Q: HE CAME TOWARD THE CAR. COULD YOU TELL IF HE CAME FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE LOCATION OR FROM THE HOUSE?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: OKAY.

A: HE CAME OUT AND KATO OFFERED TO GO GET THE BAG AND HE SAID, "NO, NO, THAT IS OKAY. I'LL GET IT, I'LL GET IT."

Q: OKAY.

A: SO HE WENT AND GOT THE BAG, AND AS HE WAS GETTING THE BAG I WALKED AROUND THE SIDE OF THE CAR TOWARD THE DRIVER'S SIDE AND I DON'T IF HE PUT THAT INSIDE THE CAR OR IN THE TRUNK. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT.

Q: OKAY. SO AFTER THE DEFENDANT SAID THAT HE WOULD GET IT, DID YOU SEE HIM WALK OVER TO THE BAG?

A: YES.

Q: AND GET IT?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU SEE HIM COME BACK WITH IT?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THIS. HE JUST TESTIFIED TO ALL THIS. OBJECT. ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU CAN ANSWER.

A: UMM, YES. I DIDN'T -- WELL, ACTUALLY I DIDN'T SEE HIM COME BACK WITH IT. BUT HE CAME BACK TOWARD THE CAR, AND LIKE I SAID, I DON'T KNOW IF HE PUT IT INSIDE OR IN THE TRUNK.

Q: WHEN YOU SAY "INSIDE," YOU MEAN IN THE PASSENGER AREA?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN HE -- AFTER HE WENT AND PICKED UP THE BAG -- AFTER THE DEFENDANT WENT AND PICKED UP THE BAG, AT WHAT POINT DID YOU GO AROUND TO THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF YOUR CAR?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: WHERE WAS THE DEFENDANT WHEN YOU DID THAT?

A: WHEN I WALKED AROUND?

Q: YES.

A: HE CAME BACK FROM WHERE THE BAG WAS.

Q: OKAY.

A: TOWARDS THE -- TOWARD THE LIMOUSINE.

Q: SO THE DEFENDANT WAS ON HIS WAY BACK FROM PICKING UP THE BAG WHEN YOU WENT TO THE DRIVER'S SIDE?

A: YEAH. AS I WAS WALKING AROUND HE WAS COMING BACK.

Q: OKAY. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: UMM, AFTER THAT HE WENT BACK INTO THE HOUSE AND KATO WENT BACK IN WITH HIM AND THEY WERE STANDING IN THE ENTRANCE AREA OF THE HOUSE. WHAT THEY WERE SAYING, I DON'T KNOW.

Q: WAS THAT IN THE -- INSIDE THE ENTRANCE AREA OF THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: THEY APPEARED -- DID THEY APPEAR TO BE HAVING A CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

Q: AT THE TIME THAT THE DEFENDANT CAME BACK FROM PICKING UP THAT BAG ON THE DRIVEWAY AREA, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER THE CAR DOORS WERE OPENED OR CLOSED?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU CAN ANSWER.

A: FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER BOTH BACK DOORS WAS OPENED AND MY DRIVER'S DOOR WAS OPENED.

Q: AND WHAT ABOUT THE TRUNK, WAS IT OPENED OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS STILL OPEN AT THAT TIME.

Q: SO WERE ALL THE DOORS AND TRUNK OPENED EXCEPT FOR THE ONE ON THE FRONT PASSENGER SIDE?

A: FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER AT SOME POINT THEY WERE. I MEAN --

Q: I'M TALKING ABOUT THIS POINT. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE POINT WHEN THE DEFENDANT CAME BACK FROM HAVING PICKED UP THAT BAG ON THE DRIVEWAY TOWARD THE HOUSE.

A: I KNOW MY DRIVER'S DOOR WAS OPENED AND I KNOW THE DRIVER'S DOOR ON THE -- ON THE -- THE DRIVER'S DOOR ON THE -- THE BACK ONE, THE BACK DOOR ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE WAS OPENED ALSO. THE OTHER ONE, I CANNOT REMEMBER IF IT WAS OR NOT, AND THE TRUNK WAS OPENED.

Q: OKAY. COULD THE REAR PASSENGER DOOR HAVE BEEN OPENED AS WELL?

A: YES.

Q: AT THE POINT WHEN THE DEFENDANT WENT TO GET THAT BAG IN THE DRIVEWAY, WERE ALL THE OTHER BAGS LOADED INTO THE CAR?

A: YES, THEY WERE.

Q: SO THAT WAS THE LAST ONE TO GO IN?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS IT AFTER THAT POINT THAT HE WENT AND SPOKE TO KATO INSIDE THE ENTRANCE AREA OF THE HOUSE?

MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW LONG DID HE AND KATO SPEAK IN THE ENTRANCE AREA OF THE HOUSE?

A: IT WAS -- IT WAS VERY BRIEF. THIRTY SECONDS, A MINUTE.

Q: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: UMM, FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER, AFTER THAT THEY WERE -- THEY BOTH CAME WALKING OUTSIDE. MR. SIMPSON SAID SOMETHING ABOUT SEARCHING THE PROPERTY, ABOUT -- FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, FROM WHAT I HEARD WAS, "YOU GO AROUND ONE WAY AND I'LL GO AROUND THE OTHER." AT THAT TIME I CLOSED THE TRUNK AND THE DOORS, THE CAR DOORS, AND KATO WALKED OVER TO -- STARTED WALKING OVER TO THE CORNER OF THE GARAGE WHERE I POINTED WHERE HE WAS BEFORE, AND MR. SIMPSON STARTED TO GO KIND OF IN THAT -- THAT DIRECTION, AND I WAS GOING TO FOLLOW HIM. I WAS GOING TO GO JUST TO SEE IF THEY NEEDED ANY HELP. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS BACK THERE EITHER, SO I WAS GOING TO GO, AND AT THAT TIME MR. SIMPSON SAID, "WE GOT TO GO."

Q: OKAY. SO WHEN YOU SAY KATO WALKED DOWN TOWARD THE GARAGE, CAN YOU SHOW US ON THIS DIAGRAM THE AREA HE WAS WALKING TOWARDS, THE DIRECTION IN WHICH HE WAS WALKING?

A: FROM POINT A TO POINT B OR JUST THE DIRECTION?

Q: I GUESS JUST THE DIRECTION?

A: TO WHERE THE "K" IS WHERE YOU PUT "KATO."

Q: HE WAS WALKING TOWARDS THAT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE ARROW POINT THAT WAY. ALL RIGHT. AND WHERE DID HE START FROM?

A: UMM --

Q: FIRST OF ALL, WHO WAS IT THAT SAID "YOU GO ONE WAY, I WILL GO THE OTHER"?

A: MR. SIMPSON.

Q: AND WHERE WAS KATO AND MR. SIMPSON STANDING AT THAT TIME?

A: THEY WERE STANDING JUST A LITTLE BIT FARTHER BACK WHERE -- A LITTLE BIT TOWARD THE HOUSE.

Q: WHOA.

A: OKAY.

THE COURT: YOU ARE MAKING ME SEASICK HERE.

THE WITNESS: AM I LOOKING AT THE DOT OR THE ARROW?

MS. CLARK: THE DOT.

THE WITNESS: IT WAS JUST A LITTLE BIT FARTHER DOWN TOWARD THE GARAGE, TOWARDS THE GARAGE.

MS. CLARK: TOWARD THE GARAGE.

THE WITNESS: IT WAS IN THAT AREA.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ARE YOU GIVING UP?

A: PRACTICALLY.

Q: IS THAT ABOUT RIGHT?

A: THAT -- YEAH.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THAT IS WHERE THEY STARTED FROM?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. WHY DON'T WE PUT "K PLUS S."

MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND COULD WE PUT AN ARROW ON THAT TO INDICATE DIRECTION UNDERNEATH IT, IN BETWEEN THE -- THERE WE GO.

Q: CAN YOU TELL THE ARROW WHERE -- WHAT DIRECTION THEY WERE GOING IN. PUT THE ARROW WHERE YOU WANT TO, MR. PARK.

MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMES A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: WHAT FACT IS THAT?

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE WITNESS: TO -- THE SAME WAY THE ARROW IS POINTING, BUT AROUND THE GARAGE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. SO CAN YOU MOVE THAT ARROW?

A: IN THAT DIRECTION, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AGAIN THIS IS ON 66-E.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO WHO WAS IN THE LEAD WALKING SOUTH TOWARD THE GARAGE?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, KATO.

Q: AND WAS MR. SIMPSON BEHIND HIM?

A: YES.

Q: DID MR. KAELIN HAVE THAT SAME FLASHLIGHT IN HIS HAND AS THE ONE YOU HAD SEEN IN HIS HAND EARLIER?

A: AT THAT POINT IN TIME I DON'T KNOW. HE MIGHT HAVE GAVE UP ON IT BY THEN. IT -- IT WASN'T VERY BRIGHT AT ALL.

Q: OKAY. AND THEN THE DEFENDANT -- AFTER THE DEFENDANT SAID, "WE GOT TO GO," WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WE BOTH WENT TO THE CAR. I OPENED THE DOOR FOR HIM, LET HIM IN, AND GOT IN THE FRONT AND WE DROVE OFF.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU GO OVER AND CLOSE THE TRUNK OF THE CAR, SIR?

A: YES, BEFORE I STARTED TO WALK WITH THEM.

Q: BEFORE YOU STARTED TO GO WITH THEM SOUTH TOWARD THE GARAGE AREA?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU CLOSED THE TRUNK OF THE CAR, DID YOU NOTICE WHICH BAGS WERE INSIDE THE TRUNK?

A: NO, I DIDN'T LOOK.

Q: YOU JUST CLOSED THE TRUNK?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT GATE DID YOU EXIT THROUGH?

A: THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: AND HOW WAS IT OPENED, IF YOU KNOW?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, KATO OPENED IT.

Q: DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU WENT OUT THROUGH THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: IT WAS AROUND SOMEWHERE BETWEEN TEN AFTER, FIFTEEN AFTER 11:00.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU EXITED THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, DID YOU -- WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING -- DID YOU LOOK OUT ONTO THE STREET?

A: YES. I WAS WATCHING FOR TRAFFIC.

Q: OKAY. AND WERE YOU LOOKING TO SEE WHICH CARS WERE PARKED ON THE CURB AT THAT TIME?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOUR -- YOU WERE ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THE CAR, CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY TRAFFIC APPROACHING AS YOU EXITED THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES. FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, THERE WAS A CAR COMING FROM THE SOUTH OR FROM NORTHBOUND HEADING SOUTH DOWN ROCKINGHAM.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT CAR APPROACHING YOU COMING SOUTH -- COMING -- WAS IT COMING TOWARD YOU FROM THE NORTH?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, I HAD TO EDGE OUT JUST A LITTLE BIT FOR -- THERE WAS -- FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, THERE WAS A CAR TO THE LEFT, AND WHEN HE CAME OUT, SOMETHING WAS OBSTRUCTING MY VIEW OVER HERE ON THE RIGHT, AND I EDGED OUT AND I LET THE CAR GO BY AND THEN I LEFT.

Q: OKAY.

A: I FOLLOWED IT DOWN.

Q: SO WHEN YOU SAW THE CAR APPROACHING THE ROCKINGHAM GATE GOING NORTH TO SOUTH, YOU INDICATED YOU SAW A CAR ON YOUR LEFT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU MEAN A CAR -- WAS IT A MOVING CAR OR WAS IT A PARKED CAR?

A: NO, IT WAS PARKED, IT WAS A LITTLE FARTHER DOWN.

Q: ON THE CURB?

A: YES.

Q: YOU SAID SOMETHING WAS OBSTRUCTING YOUR VISION ON THE RIGHT?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT AS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU SAID SOMETHING WAS OBSTRUCTING YOUR VIEW ON THE RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THAT TO THE NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: YES, THE AREA I WAS LOOKING AT THE CAR.

Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU LOOK TO PAY CLOSER ATTENTION TO WHAT IT WAS THAT WAS OBSTRUCTING YOUR VIEW TO THE RIGHT OF THE NORTH -- THAT IS, TO THE RIGHT, NORTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: NO. I WAS STRICTLY LOOKING AT THE TRAFFIC.

Q: OKAY. AND THE OBJECT THAT WAS OBSTRUCTING YOUR VIEW, WAS IT STATIONARY PARKED OR WAS IT MOVING, THE AREA THAT WAS OBSTRUCTING YOUR VIEW TO THE RIGHT, THE OBJECT THAT WAS OBSTRUCTING YOUR VIEW TO THE RIGHT?

A: I DON'T KNOW. I DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT. I WAS LOOKING AT THE TRAFFIC.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU WERE LOOKING FOR MOVING AND NOT PARKED VEHICLES AT THAT TIME?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WILL STAND.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND YOU SAID AFTER THAT CAR PASSED THAT WAS GOING FROM NORTH TO SOUTH YOU PULLED OUT?

A: YES.

Q: WHERE DID YOU GO THEN?

A: I TOOK ROCKINGHAM DOWN TO SUNSET AND MADE A LEFT ON SUNSET HEADING EAST AND WAS GOING TO THE 405 FREEWAY TO LEAD SOUTH ON THE 405, AND GO TO LAX. WHEN I WAS GOING DOWN SUNSET I WAS IN MY LEFT HAND LANE BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ONLY WAY I KNEW HOW TO GET ONTO THE FREEWAY WAS TO MAKE A LEFT. AND WHEN I WAS JUST ABOUT TO GET THERE, MR. SIMPSON TOLD ME THAT YOU COULD GET ON THE FREEWAY ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE, SO I GOT IN THE RIGHT-HAND LANE. I MADE A RIGHT-HAND TURN JUST A LITTLE TOO SOON AND MISSED THE ONRAMP, SO HE SAID, "THAT IS OKAY, YOU COULD JUST KEEP GOING STRAIGHT DOWN WHATEVER STREET IT WAS. THERE WILL BE ANOTHER ONRAMP A LITTLE BIT FARTHER DOWN," WHICH HE WAS CORRECT. AND GOT BACK ON THE FREEWAY AND DROVE TO LAX FROM THERE.

Q: OKAY. SO WITH THE DEFENDANT'S ASSISTANCE YOU MADE IT TO THE AIRPORT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT DID THE DEFENDANT SAY ANYTHING TO YOU?

A: A FEW TIMES HE REPEATED HOW HOT HE WAS. TWO OR THREE TIMES HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, MAN, IT IS HOT." I TOLD HIM HE COULD TURN THE AIR CONDITIONING ON.

Q: AND DID HE?

A: I REMEMBER HEARING IT COME ON, YES. HE ALSO HAD THE SEAT THAT HE WAS SITTING IN, HE ALSO HAD THE WINDOW DOWN. A COUPLE TIMES, YOU KNOW, HE REPEATED, "IT DOESN'T PAY TO GET DRESSED IN A HURRY" OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT OR "I KNOW I FORGOT SOMETHING." I SAID, "THAT USUALLY HAPPENS WHEN YOU ARE GOING ON A TRIP." HE ASKED ME WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Q: MR. PARK, LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING --

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, IS HE FINISHED? I'M NOT SURE IF HE IS FINISHED.

MS. CLARK: WELL, HE IS ON THE NARRATIVE. IF YOU DON'T MIND, I WILL ASK HIM THE NEXT QUESTION.

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. I THOUGHT WE AGREED WE WERE GOING TO TALK TO ME. THANK YOU. PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW MANY TIMES DID THE DEFENDANT REMARK TO YOU THAT HE WAS HOT?

A: HE SAID IT PRETTY QUICK RIGHT IN A ROW TWO OR THREE TIMES.

Q: AND THEN AFTER THE AIR CONDITIONING AND THE WINDOW WERE DOWN, DID HE CONTINUE TO REPEAT HE WAS HOT?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. IT HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AFTER -- DID HE REMARK ON BEING HOT AGAIN AFTER THE AIR CONDITIONING WAS ON AND THE WINDOW WAS DOWN?

A: DID HE REMARK?

Q: DID HE SAY IT AGAIN?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU RECALL WHAT THE WEATHER WAS LIKE THAT NIGHT?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, IT WAS MILD, HAVING OUR NORMAL JUNE GLOOM FOGGY NIGHTS.

Q: ABOUT WHAT? WHAT ABOUT WAS THE TEMPERATURE, IF YOU RECALL?

A: 68, 70 DEGREES. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: WERE YOU SWEATING?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: WERE YOU HOT?

A: NO.

Q: AND DID THE DEFENDANT SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO YOU ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT?

A: HE ASKED ME -- HE ASKED ME WHERE A LIGHT SWITCH WAS, AND BEFORE I COULD GIVE HIM AN ANSWER, HE FOUND ONE. I WAS ABOUT TO TELL HIM ON THE DOOR BACK THERE. ALSO, WE WERE ON THE FREEWAY, HE ASKED ME WHAT EXIT I WAS GOING TO GET OFF ON, AND HE SUGGESTED THAT I TAKE SEPULVEDA, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE THE QUICKEST.

Q: DO YOU SEE WHAT MOVEMENTS HE WAS MAKING AS HE WAS SITTING IN THE BACKSEAT?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, HE WAS JUST -- HE WAS -- I DIDN'T LOOK BACK THERE VERY MUCH AT ALL. I REMEMBER HIM BENDING DOWN. YOU COULD JUST SEE HIM BENT DOWN LOOKING, SEEMED LIKE HE WAS JUST CHECKING HIS BAGS TO SEE IF HE HAD EVERYTHING.

Q: OKAY. COULD YOU SEE SOME BODY MOVEMENTS?

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. ASKED AND ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: NO, NOT REALLY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT COULD YOU SEE THAT WOULD LEAD YOU TO BELIEVE THAT HE WAS CHECKING HIS BAGS OR DOING SOMETHING?

A: THAT HE WAS BENT DOWN OVER THE SEAT WHERE THE BAGS WERE ON THE FLOOR.

Q: COULD YOU HEAR ANY SOUND AS HE WAS DOING THAT?

A: A LITTLE BIT. NOT -- NOT REALLY.

Q: LIKE WHAT? WHAT DID YOU HEAR?

A: JUST SOMEBODY SHIFTING AROUND IN THE BACK LIKE YOU ARE MOVING.

Q: AND WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER HE TURNED ON THE LIGHT?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. FOR HOW LONG WAS THE LIGHT ON?

A: VERY BRIEF; TWENTY, THIRTY SECONDS.

Q: CAN YOU TELL WHAT THE TRAFFIC WAS LIKE? DO YOU RECALL WHAT THE TRAFFIC WAS LIKE THAT NIGHT?

A: IT WAS -- IT WAS NICE FOR L.A. I MEAN, IT WAS -- THERE WAS HARDLY ANY CARS ON THE FREEWAY. IT WAS LATE AT NIGHT, SO IT WAS PRETTY WIDE OPENED.

Q: SO WERE YOU DRIVING PRETTY FAST?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. ABOUT WHAT TIME DID YOU GET TO THE AIRPORT?

A: IT WAS ABOUT 11:35.

Q: AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THE AIRPORT, WHERE DID YOU PULL UP TO?

A: I PULLED UP TO THE AMERICAN AIRLINES TERMINAL.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT TO THAT LOCATION?

A: I GOT THERE AND I POPPED THE TRUNK AND GOT OUT OF THE CAR. MR. SIMPSON GOT OUT AND STARTED TO TAKE -- WE STARTED TO TAKE BAGS OUT OF THE TRUNK. HE -- THE FIRST BAG I GRABBED WAS THE GUCCI BAG, AND AT THAT TIME HE ASKED ME TO GO GET A SKYCAP.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY "THE GUCCI BAG," YOU MEAN THE GARMENT BAG?

A: YES.

Q: AND AFTER THE DEFENDANT ASKED YOU TO GET THE SKYCAP, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I PROCEEDED TO WALK OVER AND SEE IF I COULD FIND ONE. ALL OF THEM SAID THEY WERE BUSY, SO I WALKED INTO THE TERMINAL PART AND GRABBED A LUGGAGE CART.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT TO GET THE SKYCAP, DID YOU BRING THE GARMENT BAG WITH YOU OR DID YOU LEAVE IT AT THE CAR?

A: NO, I SET IT ON THE GROUND.

Q: WHEN THE DEFENDANT GOT OUT OF THE LIMOUSINE, SIR, COULD YOU OBSERVE HIM? WAS THERE LIGHTING THERE THAT YOU COULD SEE HIM?

A: YES.

Q: DID HE GET OUT OF THE CAR AS SOON AS YOU PULLED UP TO THE TERMINAL?

A: I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS AS SOON AS WE GOT THERE. I KNOW IT WAS -- I KNOW IT WAS PRETTY -- PRETTY QUICK AFTER WE PULLED UP.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU GOT OUT OF THE CAR AFTER YOU PARKED THERE, DID YOU SEE HIM OUT OF THE CAR?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: DID YOU SEE HIM GET OUT OF THE CAR?

A: YEAH, I OPENED THE DOOR.

Q: OH, YOU OPENED THE DOOR FOR HIM?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND THEN HE GOT OUT?

A: YES.

Q: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER OR NOT HE LOOKED SWEATY?

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: COULD YOU TELL US HOW HE LOOKED? HOW DID HE APPEAR?

A: HE SEEMED TO BE HOT.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SEE THAT MADE YOU BELIEVE THAT?

A: HE HAD A LITTLE BIT OF SWEAT ON HIS FOREHEAD.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO AFTER YOU -- SO YOU WENT TO GET A SKYCAP AND YOU COULDN'T GET ONE. YOU WENT TO GET A LUGGAGE CARRIER. DID YOU BRING ONE BACK WITH YOU?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHEN I SAY "BACK," DID YOU GO BACK TO THAT CAR WITH THE LUGGAGE CARRIER?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: ABOUT HOW LONG A PERIOD OF TIME WAS IT BETWEEN THE TIME YOU LEFT MR. SIMPSON AND CAME BACK TO HIM WITH THE LUGGAGE CARRIER?

A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NO MORE THAN A MINUTE.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU CAME BACK TO THE CAR, WHERE WAS MR. SIMPSON?

A: AT THE TRUNK OF THE CAR.

Q: AT THE TRUNK?

A: UH-HUH.

Q: IS THAT YES?

A: YES.

Q: DID HE HAVE ANYTHING IN HIS HANDS?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, HE HAD ONE OF THE DUFFLE BAGS KIND OF STRAPPED OVER HIS SHOULDER, AND AS I WALKED UP, HE PUT THE GOLF BAGS ON THE CART THAT I WAS STILL HOLDING, AND I PICKED UP AND PUT THE GUCCI BAG ON THE CART.

Q: WHEN YOU SAY "GOLF BAGS," WAS THERE MORE THAN ONE GOLF BAG?

A: NO, ONE -- IT WAS A GOLF BAG IN A GOLF BAG. THERE WAS A CASE THAT COVERED ALL THE GOLF BAGS.

Q: OKAY. BUT WAS IT ONE ITEM?

A: WHY.

Q: WHO PUT THE GOLF BAG ONTO THE LUGGAGE CARRIER?

A: MR. SIMPSON.

Q: AND WHO PUT THE GARMENT BAG ON TOP OF THE GOLF BAG ON THE LUGGAGE CARRIER?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, I PICKED IT UP AND PUT IT ON TOP.

Q: AND MR. SIMPSON HAD A DUFFEL BAG OVER -- ONE OF THOSE DUFFLE BAGS OVER HIS SHOULDER?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, YES.

Q: OKAY. AND THAT DUFFEL BAG THAT HE HAD OVER HIS SHOULDER, WAS THAT THE BIG ONE THAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING?

A: YEAH, IT WAS.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THAT, YOUR HONOR. THAT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. THERE WERE TWO DUFFLE BAGS.

THE COURT: I DON'T KNOW. WE HAVE DIFFERENTIATION IN SIZE OF THE TWO DUFFLE BAGS.

MS. CLARK: LET ME ASK.

Q: YOU INDICATED THAT WHEN YOU PULLED UP TO THE FRONT DOOR AT ROCKINGHAM THAT THERE WERE TWO DUFFEL BAGS IN THE FRONT ENTRANCE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT COLOR WERE THEY?

A: BLACK.

Q: WERE THEY DIFFERENT SIZES?

A: THEY WERE CLOSE TO THE SAME.

Q: ABOUT THE SAME SIZE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS IT ONE OF THOSE DUFFLE BAGS THAT YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON HAD OVER HIS SHOULDER WHEN YOU CAME BACK WITH THE LUGGAGE CARRIER?

A: YES.

Q: SO A GOLF BAG AND A GARMENT BAG WENT ONTO THE LUGGAGE CARRIER?

A: HE HAD THE OTHER BAG STRAPPED, AND FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, CARRYING THE OTHER BLACK DUFFEL BAG.

Q: OKAY. SO ONE OF THE LARGE BLACK DUFFLE BAGS WAS ON HIS SHOULDER AND THE OTHER WAS IN HIS HAND?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE ONE THAT WAS IN HIS HAND, WAS THAT AS LARGE AS THE ONE ON HIS SHOULDER?

A: IT WAS AROUND THE SAME SIZE.

Q: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: UMM, WE WALKED OVER TO WHERE YOU CHECKED YOUR BAGGAGE IN. I -- I SET THE -- I SET THE GOLF BAG ON THE SKYCAP'S LUGGAGE CART ALONG WITH THE GUCCI BAG, AND HE -- HE JUST -- HE CARRIED THE OTHER BAGS WITH HIM OVER TO WHERE THE -- TO WHERE YOU CHECK YOUR LUGGAGE IN AND HE WAS CHECKING HIS LUGGAGE IN. I PUT THE STUFF ON THE CART, AND THAT WAS ABOUT IT, AND I WALKED OVER, SHOOK HIS HAND AND HE SAID "ADD TWENTY PERCENT" AND SEE YOU LATER.

Q: OKAY. ON YOUR WAY OVER TO THE SKYCAP, DID ANYBODY STOP MR. SIMPSON?

A: UMM, I COULDN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHAT -- WHAT TIME IT TOOK PLACE, BUT SOMEONE FROM AMERICAN AIRLINES ASKED HIM FOR AN AUTOGRAPH, YES.

Q: OKAY. WAS THAT ON THE WAY FROM THE LIMO TO THE SKYCAP?

A: FROM -- I'M NOT POSITIVE IF IT WAS BEFORE THAT, WHEN I CAME BACK WITH THE -- WITH THE CART. I DON'T KNOW IF IT HAPPENED DURING THAT OR IF IT -- IF IT WAS WHEN WE WERE WALKING OVER THERE.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, WOULD THIS BE A GOOD SPOT?

MS. CLARK: I AM JUST ABOUT DONE ACTUALLY.

THE COURT: OKAY. CONCLUDED.

MS. CLARK: IS THAT OKAY?

Q: SO DID HE CHECK -- DID HE CHECK THE GOLF BAG AND THE GARMENT BAG WITH THE SKYCAP?

A: I DON'T KNOW.

Q: DID YOU SEE WHAT HE CARRIED ON VERSUS WHAT HE CHECKED IN?

A: I WAS GONE BY THEN.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU WENT WITH HIM FROM THE LIMO TO THE SKYCAP, DID YOU SEE THAT SMALL DARK BAG THAT YOU HAD SEEN EARLIER ON THE DRIVEWAY OF ROCKINGHAM?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER.

MS. CLARK: CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: MAYBE THIS IS A GOOD TIME, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A RECESS SO I CAN CHANGE COURT REPORTERS. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU OR CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. WE WILL BE IN RECESS FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES. MR. PARK, YOU MAY STEP DOWN AND YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN IN FIFTEEN MINUTES.

THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

(RECESS.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL THE PARTIES ARE PRESENT WITHOUT THE JURY. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. MR. PARK, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE'VE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. MR. ALLAN PARK IS ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDERGOING DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MRS. CLARK. GOOD AFTERNOON AGAIN, MR. PARK.

THE WITNESS: GOOD AFTERNOON.

THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED, SIR, YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. AND, MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE WITH YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. GOOD AFTERNOON.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIR, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU AND MR. SIMPSON THEN WALKED OVER TO THE SKYCAP. DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING TO THAT?

A: YES, SIR. YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND AT THAT --

A: SORRY ABOUT THAT. Q: I'M USED TO IT. AND AT THAT TIME, WAS -- WHAT WAS HE CARRYING AS YOU WALKED OVER TO THE SKYCAP?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THIS HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED BEFORE THE BREAK.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: UH, HE WAS CARRYING THE TWO BLACK DUFFLE BAGS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND DID HE CARRY THEM ALL THE WAY OVER TO THE SKYCAP, SIR?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, YES.

Q: DID YOU EVER SEE THAT SMALL DARK BAG AFTER THE DEFENDANT PICKED IT UP OFF THE DRIVEWAY AT ROCKINGHAM AGAIN?

A: UH, NOT THAT I REMEMBER.

Q: AND WHEN YOU LEFT THE DEFENDANT, HE WAS AT THE SKYCAP'S STATION?

A: YES.

Q: AT ANY TIME DURING THAT NIGHT, SIR, DID HE COMPLAIN TO YOU OF PAIN IN HIS ARMS OR HIS SHOULDERS OR HIS BACK?

A: NO, HE DIDN'T.

Q: OR HIS LEGS OR HIS FEET?

A: NO.

Q: AND DID HE -- HE TOLD YOU TO ADD 20 PERCENT TO THE BILL?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU EVER GET THAT TIP?

A: UH, ACTUALLY, I DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU SEE WHAT THE DEFENDANT CARRIED ON THE PLANE VERSUS WHAT HE CHECKED IN WITH THE SKYCAP?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: I FORGOT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AT THE POINT THAT YOU LEFT THEN, WAS THE DEFENDANT STILL WITH THE SKYCAP, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: THEN YOU WENT BACK TO YOUR CAR?

A: YES.

Q: HOW FAR FROM THE SKYCAP STATION DID YOU PARK?

A: 40 FEET, 50 FEET, SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. WASN'T FAR.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE THE DEFENDANT TIP THE SKYCAP?

A: DID I -- I SAW HIM PULLING SOME MONEY OUT OF HIS POCKET. I NEVER SEE HIM ACTUALLY TIP THE SKYCAP, NO.

Q: YOU INDICATED THAT DURING THE DRIVE TO THE AIRPORT, SIR, THE DEFENDANT ASKED -- REMARKED TO YOU AS HE WAS SEATED IN THE BACK OF THE LIMO AS YOU WERE DRIVING THAT HE FORGOT SOMETHING. DO YOU RECALL TESTIFYING TO THAT?

MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT -- DID THE DEFENDANT SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HAVING FORGOTTEN SOMETHING TO YOU?

A: HE JUST SAID I'M, YOU KNOW -- UH, HE SAID, "I KNOW I FORGOT SOMETHING."

Q: DID HE EVER TELL YOU WHAT?

A: NO.

MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, JUDGE.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. PARK.

A: GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR.

MR. COCHRAN: GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU A FEW QUESTIONS IF I MIGHT, SIR. HOW LONG HAD YOU WORKED FOR MR. DALE ST. JOHN PRIOR TO JUNE 12TH OF 1994?

A: IT WAS AROUND TWO AND A HALF, THREE MONTHS. Q: AND HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN A LIMOUSINE DRIVER AS OF JUNE 12TH, 1994?

A: FOR ABOUT FIVE MONTHS.

Q: AND DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG MR. O.J. SIMPSON HAD BEEN A CLIENT OF MR. DALE ST. JOHN'S?

A: I KNOW IT WAS -- IT'S BEEN QUITE A WHILE. I DIDN'T KNOW THE EXACT MONTHS.

Q: MORE THAN A YEAR WOULD YOU SAY?

A: YES.

Q: MORE THAN SEVERAL YEARS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS HE A VALUED CLIENT TO TOWN AND COUNTRY AT THAT POINT?

A: YES, I'D SAY.

Q: AND DID YOU FIND OUT ON JUNE 12TH OF 1994 THAT YOU WOULD BE TAKING OR PICKING UP MR. SIMPSON AND TAKING HIM TO THE AIRPORT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND HOW DID YOU FIND THIS OUT?

A: UH, FROM MY BOSS.

Q: AND THAT WAS MR. DALE ST. JOHN?

A: YES.

Q: AND MR. ST. JOHN GAVE YOU SOME INSTRUCTIONS DID YOU ABOUT -- DID HE ABOUT PICKING UP MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES. HE GAVE ME DIRECTIONS AND WHAT TIME AND --

Q: HE TOLD YOU TO BE THERE, THAT YOU SHOULD PICK HIM UP SOMEWHERE AROUND 10:45 P.M.; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND I THINK YOU TOLD US THAT YOU WERE AWARE THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS GOING TO BE LEAVING ON A FLIGHT AT OR AROUND 11:45 P.M. ON JUNE 12TH; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU KNEW IT WAS AN AMERICAN AIRLINES FLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, DID HE GIVE YOU ANY OTHER SPECIAL INSTRUCTIONS ABOUT MR. SIMPSON AND DEALING WITH MR. SIMPSON AT ALL WHEN YOU FIRST TALKED WITH HIM?

A: NO, NOT THAT I REMEMBER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU KNEW THIS WAS -- IT WAS IMPORTANT TO THE BUSINESS AND IMPORTANT TO MR. -- MR. ST. JOHN TO DO A GOOD JOB THAT NIGHT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, OF COURSE. ALWAYS.

Q: AND YOU WOULD WANT TO DO THAT FOR ANY -- ANY PARTICULAR CLIENT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: IN THIS INSTANCE, HOWEVER, THIS WOULD BE -- THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HAD EVER PICKED UP MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED, COMING FROM THE SOUTH BAY, YOU DID NOT KNOW HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE YOU TO GET TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION, DID YOU?

A: CORRECT.

Q: SO YOU STARTED OUT EARLY AND YOU GOT THERE A LITTLE BIT EARLY; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. HAD MR. ST. JOHN TOLD YOU THAT ON OCCASION, MR. SIMPSON RUNS LATE AND HE'S RUNNING AROUND LATE ON THE WAY TO THE AIRPORT?

A: YES.

Q: HE TOLD YOU THAT BEFORE YOU GOT THERE AND HE TOLD YOU THAT IN THAT PHONE CONVERSATION ALSO; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: UH, I DON'T REMEMBER HIM TELLING ME BEFORE. I REMEMBER ON THE PHONE, YES.

Q: BUT HE TOLD YOU THAT IN THAT PHONE CONVERSATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: THAT'S WHEN HE TOLD YOU TO WAIT AT LEAST UNTIL 11:15 P.M.; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY, YOU'VE HAD OCCASION, HAVE YOU NOT, TO MEET WITH THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS IN THIS CASE?

A: YES, I HAVE.

Q: AND ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS WOULD YOU -- WELL, STRIKE THAT. TELL US WHEN DID YOU FIRST MEET MISS MARCIA CLARK, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY AT THE FAR END OF THE TABLE?

A: THE FIRST TIME? I -- I REALLY DON'T REMEMBER.

Q: WAS IT BACK IN JUNE OF 1994?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU TALKED TO HER PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY AT THE GRAND JURY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IT WOULD BE A FAIR STATEMENT TO SAY YOU TALKED TO HER PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IT WOULD BE A FAIR STATEMENT TO SAY YOU TALKED AND GAVE A STATEMENT TO POLICE OFFICERS TIPPIN AND CARR ON OR ABOUT JUNE 15TH, 1994; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN YOU HAD A SECOND INTERVIEW WITH TIPPIN AND CARR ALSO ON JUNE 15TH, 1994 BY TELEPHONE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

Q: AND PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIFYING HERE TODAY, YOU'VE HAD OCCASION IN THE RECENT PAST TO TALK TO MISS MARCIA CLARK, HAVE YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN DID YOU LAST TALK TO HER PRIOR TO YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY, SIR?

A: UH, WOULD HAVE BEEN LAST FRIDAY.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU TALK TO HER AT THAT POINT?

A: HERE.

Q: AND HERE IN THIS BUILDING?

A: YES.

Q: IN HER OFFICE?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW LONG DID YOU TALK TO HER AT THAT TIME?

A: UH, IT WAS ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF, TWO HOURS.

Q: AND WHAT TIME OF DAY WAS THAT?

A: UH, WE MET AT 11:00 O'CLOCK.

Q: 11:00 O'CLOCK A.M.?

A: YES.

Q: AND IS YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION THAT YOU TALKED UNTIL PERHAPS ABOUT 12:30?

A: UH, SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE. WE WERE HERE A LITTLE LONGER, BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF DISTRACTIONS IN-BETWEEN. SO --

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AFTER THAT INTERVIEW WITH MISS CLARK ON FRIDAY AT ABOUT 11:00 O'CLOCK, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO TALK TO HER ALSO THIS MORNING BRIEFLY?

A: UH, JUST HERE IN THE COURTROOM, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU TALKED TO HER DURING THE BREAKS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU READ ANYTHING IN PREPARATION FOR YOUR TESTIMONY HERE TODAY, ANY OF THE TRANSCRIPTS FROM ANY OF THE EARLIER HEARINGS?

A: OF MY OWN, YES.

Q: YES. OF YOUR TESTIMONY?

A: YES.

Q: TELL US WHAT YOU'VE READ, SIR.

A: UH, I'VE READ EVERYTHING THAT -- THAT WAS TAKEN DOWN BY THE COURT REPORTER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU READ EVERYTHING THAT -- YOU READ YOUR TESTIMONY AT THE GRAND JURY; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU READ YOUR TESTIMONY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YEAH. I WOULDN'T SAY ALL OF IT, BUT --

Q: BUT YOU WENT THROUGH IT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU READ YOUR TWO STATEMENTS TO OFFICERS TIPPIN AND CARR BACK ON JUNE 15TH; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS WITH ALL OF US, I PRESUME THAT YOUR MEMORY WAS BETTER BACK IN JUNE OF 1994 FOR EVENTS THAT HAD TAKEN PLACE ON JUNE 12TH THAN IT IS NOW. IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

A: THAT WOULD BE FAIR TO SAY, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO IN THE COURSE OF READING AND REVIEWING YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU TRIED AS BEST YOU COULD TO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE EVENING OF JUNE 12TH, 1994, THAT WAS A SUNDAY EVENING; WAS IT NOT?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU ARRIVED AT THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE FAIRLY EARLY. YOU GOT THERE SOMEWHERE EARLIER THAN 10:45; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOUR IDEA IN GETTING THERE EARLY WAS TO MAKE SURE YOU WERE ON TIME AND THAT YOU GOT HIM TO THE AIRPORT ON TIME; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND ONE OF THE REASONS YOU WERE GOING TO LEAVE AT 10:45 OR WANTED TO LEAVE AT 10:45 WAS BECAUSE YOU KNEW YOU HAD AN 11:45 FLIGHT TO CATCH; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAD THOUGHT ABOUT LEAVING AT 10:45, YOU ACTUALLY DIDN'T LEAVE UNTIL SOME TIME AFTER 11:00 O'CLOCK; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY AGAIN, YOU LEFT SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 11:05 AND 11:15 OUT OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMEWHERE IN-BETWEEN THERE, YES.

Q: BETWEEN THAT TIME FRAME; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, MISS CLARK DIDN'T ASK YOU THIS, BUT YOU HAD OCCASION THAT --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION TO THE EDITORIALIZING.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: SHE'S RIGHT. AND LET ME JUST STRIKE THAT FROM THE RECORD, OKAY?

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, THAT NIGHT, YOU WERE -- YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON FOR AT LEAST THE PERIOD 10:55 OR THEREABOUTS UNTIL YOU DROPPED HIM OFF AT THE OR LEFT HIM AT THE AIRPORT THERE AT ABOUT 11:35; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU LEFT HIM WITH THE SKYCAP OR LEFT HIM CHECKING HIS LUGGAGE AND THEN YOU WENT ON AND WENT BACK HOME; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME, YOU HAD OCCASION, DID YOU NOT, TO SEE MR. SIMPSON'S HANDS, DIDN'T YOU?

A: YES.

Q: IN FACT, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT AT ONE POINT, YOU SHOOK HIS HAND, HIS RIGHT HAND; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU SAW HIM, I THINK YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US, COMING DOWN THE STAIRS CARRYING SOME BAGS WITH HIS HANDS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU EVER SEE ANY BAND AIDS ON HIS LEFT HAND, ON HIS LEFT KNUCKLE, MIDDLE FINGER HERE (INDICATING)?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY CUTS ON HIS HANDS THAT EVENING, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOU DIDN'T SEE MR. SIMPSON BLEEDING THAT EVENING, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: DIDN'T NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL AT ALL REGARDING HIS HANDS, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE EVENTS OF THAT EVENING, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT YOU WOULD PUSH THIS BELL ON THE OUTSIDE. AND DID YOU FIND THAT IF YOU PUSHED THE BELL JUST ONCE, THAT IT CONTINUED TO RING FOR A PERIOD OF TIME? COULD YOU HEAR IT RINGING?

A: I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. I -- I REMEMBER IT MADE A NOISE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU REMEMBER HEARING SOME NOISE IN THE DISTANCE, DID YOU?

A: YEAH.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND OF COURSE, YOU HAD NEVER PUSHED THAT BELL BEFORE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NO, I HAVEN'T.

Q: NOW, DID YOU EVER ON THAT DAY OR ANY TIME THAT EVENING HAVE ANY INSTRUCTIONS FROM MR. DALE ST. JOHN WITH REGARD TO HOW HE WOULD COME AND PICK UP MR. SIMPSON AND WHETHER OR NOT MR. SIMPSON WOULD OPEN THE GATE FOR HIM? DID YOU EVER TALK TO HIM ABOUT THAT?

A: NO.

Q: AND HE NEVER INSTRUCTED YOU ABOUT THAT AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT? ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU WERE AWARE THAT MR. ST. JOHN HAD PICKED UP MR. SIMPSON ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS BEFORE JUNE 12TH?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES HE HAD PICKED HIM UP?

A: I KNOW IT'S NUMEROUS.

Q: AND -- WELL, HOW MANY?

A: I WOULDN'T KNOW.

Q: BUT NUMEROUS OCCASIONS?

A: YES.

Q: AND HE WAS ONE -- HE WAS THE REGULAR DRIVER FOR MR. SIMPSON; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, HE WAS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WHEN YOU FIRST DROVE UP, YOU AT SOME POINT ENDED UP PARKING ACROSS FROM THE ASHFORD GATE AND GOT OUT OF YOUR VEHICLE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND JUST KIND OF WAITED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THIS WAS A SUNDAY EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT ON SUNDAY EVENING AFTER 10:30, BETWEEN 10:30 AND 11:00 O'CLOCK, WOULD YOU SAY THAT IT WAS FAIRLY QUIET OUT THERE ON THAT STREET THAT NIGHT?

A: IT WAS VERY QUIET.

Q: AND YOU COULD HEAR NOISES ATTENDANT TO THE STREET THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT FROM YOUR LOCATION; COULD YOU NOT?

A: YES, YOU COULD.

Q: AND I THINK YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT AT SOME POINT, YOU PARKED THE CAR THERE ON ASHFORD AND YOU GOT OUT OF YOUR CAR AND I THINK YOU HAD A CIGARETTE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU WERE OUTSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AT ANY TIME WHILE YOU WERE OUT THERE THAT NIGHT, DID YOU EVER HAPPEN TO HEAR A CAR DRIVE UP OR HEAR THE SOUND OF A CAR DRIVE UP AND STOP ANYWHERE AROUND THERE?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. VAGUE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: NO. THERE -- I HEARD CARS. I HEARD CARS GO BY, BUT I NEVER HEARD A CAR PULL UP AND STOP, NO.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND. YOU HEARD AND YOU SAW CARS GO BY; DID YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU NEVER SAW A CAR OR HEARD A CAR DRIVE UP AND COME TO A STOP, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DIDN'T HEAR --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. VAGUE. WHERE?

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU DIDN'T HEAR ANY DOOR SLAM THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY LIGHTS ON THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN CAME TO A STOP AND WERE TURNED OFF THAT PARTICULAR EVENING, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: AND WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT WHAT YOU WERE MOST CONCERNED WITH THAT PARTICULAR EVENING WAS FINDING OUT IF MR. SIMPSON WAS AT HOME, GETTING HIM SO YOU COULD GET TO THE AIRPORT? WAS THAT YOUR CONCERN?

A: YES.

Q: AT THAT TIME, IT WASN'T SO IMPORTANT TO YOU I PRESUME AS TO WHAT CARS WERE PARKED WHERE ON THE STREET. THAT WASN'T IMPORTANT TO YOU, WAS IT?

A: NO, NOT AT ALL.

Q: AND YOU WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT THAT AT ALL; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: NOT AT ALL.

Q: IN FACT, YOU RECALL TESTIFYING AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING WITH REGARD TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAD LOOKED FOR ANY PARKED CARS, DON'T YOU? REMEMBER SO TESTIFYING AND BEING ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT PARKED CARS ON THE STREET AT OR NEAR ROCKINGHAM THAT DAY?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU RECALL --

MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL, PAGE 40, --

MS. CLARK: OF?

MR. COCHRAN: OF THE PRELIMINARY HEARING TRANSCRIPT. AND I'M LOOKING AT -- BEGINNING AT LINE 15. COUNSEL HAS IT NOW, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THESE QUESTIONS AND GIVING THESE RESPONSES BACK AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING IN THIS MATTER?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THIS IS NOT INCONSISTENT HEARSAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET ME SEE COUNSEL AT SIDEBAR WITH THE TRANSCRIPT.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: WANT TO SHOW ME THE TRANSCRIPT? WHAT LINE?

MR. COCHRAN: BEGINNING LINE 15. SHE'LL AGREE SHE JUST WANTED TO COME OVER HERE TO STAND CLOSE TO ME.

MS. CLARK: TRUE. YOU'RE SO HARD TO RESIST.

MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL, TO LINE 25.

MS. CLARK: SERIOUSLY, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO? CORROBORATE ANOTHER ONE OF MY WITNESSES, BOLSTER HIS CREDIBILITY? THAT'S WHAT HE TESTIFIED TO HERE.

MR. COCHRAN: A LITTLE DIFFERENT. HE SAID HE LOOKED AND SAW --

THE COURT: HE TESTIFIED HE SAW SOMETHING PARKED TO HIS LEFT AND THAT THERE WAS AN OBSTRUCTION TO HIS RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: IT SHOULDN'T TAKE VERY LONG.

MS. CLARK: BUT HE ALSO TESTIFIED AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING HE SAW SOMETHING PARKED TO HIS LEFT.

MR. COCHRAN: NO, HE DOES NOT -- TO HIS LEFT, BUT NOT TO HIS RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: HE DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING WAS PARKED TO HIS RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: HE SAID THERE WAS AN OBSTRUCTION.

MS. CLARK: SOMETHING WAS OBSTRUCTING HIS VIEW.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT. I CAN GO INTO THIS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: I WILL ALLOW THE QUESTION.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I PROCEED, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK, YOU COUNSEL.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU RECALL AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING BEING ASKED THIS SERIES OF QUESTIONS BY MISS CLARK AND GIVING THIS RESPONSE? "QUESTION: WHAT GATE DID YOU LEAVE FROM --" STRIKE THAT. LET'S START AT LINE 13. "QUESTION: THEN DID YOU LEAVE? "ANSWER: YES. "QUESTION: WHAT GATE DID YOU LEAVE FROM? "ANSWER: THE ROCKINGHAM GATE. "QUESTION: IN WHICH WAY DID YOU GO ON THE ROCKINGHAM --" STRIKE THAT -- "AND WHICH WAY DID YOU GO ON ROCKINGHAM AS YOU EXITED THE GATE? "ANSWER: I MADE A LEFT. "QUESTION: DID YOU LOOK TO SEE WHETHER ANY CARS WERE PARKED ON THE RIGHT SIDE AS YOU FACE THE DRIVEWAY OF ROCKINGHAM OUTSIDE THE RESIDENCE? "ANSWER: I DIDN'T LOOK TO SEE. "QUESTION: YOU WEREN'T LOOKING AT THE PARKED CARS? "ANSWER: YEAH." REMEMBER SO TESTIFYING AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND WHEN YOU GAVE THAT ANSWER ABOUT ANY CARS BEING --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. COULD HE BE PERMITTED TO COMPLETE HIS -- COMPLETE THE PASSAGE THAT DEALS WITH THIS AREA, 356?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU CAN DO THAT ON REDIRECT, COUNSEL.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, IT DOESN'T MATTER. JUST TO SAVE SOME TIME, LET ME JUST DO IT NOW AND SAVE SOME TIME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: IN THE SPIRIT OF COOPERATION.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: "QUESTION: WERE YOU LOOKING TO SEE IF THERE WAS SOME TRAFFIC? "ANSWER: YES, OF COURSE. "CAN YOU TELL US HOW MANY BAGS THE DEFENDANT LOADED INTO THE CAR?" IS THAT FAR ENOUGH OR KEEP GOING?

MS. CLARK: LAST TWO.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: SO AT THE TIME YOU GAVE THAT TESTIMONY, YOU WERE BEING AS ACCURATE AS YOU COULD AND UNDER OATH; ISN'T THAT CORRECT, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN YOU ALSO HAD OCCASION TO TESTIFY AT THE GRAND JURY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THESE SERIES OF QUESTIONS BY MISS CLARK?

MR. COCHRAN: BEGINNING, MISS CLARK, AT PAGE 270. LET'S BEGIN AT LINE 21, AND WE'LL GO ALL THE WAY OVER TO LINE 12 ON PAGE 272.

MS. CLARK: GOING HOW FAR, JOHNNIE?

MR. COCHRAN: ALL THE WAY TO -- READ ALL THE WAY TO THE END, 272, LINE 12.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. GREAT.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: RECALL BEING ASKED THIS SERIES OF QUESTIONS BY MISS MARCIA CLARK AT THE GRAND JURY ON OR ABOUT JUNE 17, 1994? "QUESTION: WHEN YOU PULLED OUT OF THE DRIVEWAY OF THE SUSPECT'S HOUSE, WHAT DRIVEWAY EXIT DID YOU USE; ASHFORD OR ROCKINGHAM? "ANSWER: ROCKINGHAM. "QUESTION: WHEN YOU PULLED OUT OF THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY CAR PARKED ON THE STREET NEXT TO THAT GATE? "ANSWER: THERE WAS A VEHICLE TO MY LEFT. WHEN I WAS EXITING, I NOTICED I HAD TO LOOK AROUND THE VEHICLE. I NEVER NOTICED WHAT KIND OF VEHICLE IT WAS. I DIDN'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THAT, BUT THERE WAS A VEHICLE THERE. "QUESTION: YOU SAY A VEHICLE TO YOUR LEFT. THAT WOULD BE THE AREA I'M INDICATING WITH MY PEN." DO YOU REMEMBER SHE THEN POINTED OUT SOMETHING ON THE MAP?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. "CORRECT. "WHY DON'T YOU MARK THAT." YOU SAID YOU NOTICED A VEHICLE DOWN THERE. THAT IS TO YOUR LEFT, AS THE DRIVER'S COMPARTMENT.

A: YES.

Q: "YES (WITNESS COMPLIES). "QUESTION: GO AHEAD AND HAVE A SEAT. "YOU EXITED OUT OF THE GATE THAT FEEDS ONTO ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT RIGHT?"

A: YES.

Q: "ANSWER: YES. "QUESTION: SO YOU'RE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF YOUR CAR, RIGHT? "ANSWER: YES. "AND YOU WERE GOING TO MAKE A LEFT OUT OF THE GATE? "ANSWER: THAT'S CORRECT. "QUESTION: SO YOU'RE LOOKING TO YOUR LEFT FOR TRAFFIC, FOR ONCOMING TRAFFIC? "ANSWER: YEAH. BOTH WAYS. "QUESTION: DID YOU ATTEMPT TO LOOK VERY CAREFULLY TO SEE WHETHER OTHER --" STRIKE THAT. "DID YOU ATTEMPT TO LOOK VERY CAREFULLY TO SEE WHETHER CARS WERE PARKED ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE DRIVEWAY? "ANSWER: THERE WERE NO CARS. "QUESTION:" THAT'S TO THE RIGHT SIDE. "ARE YOU SURE? "ANSWER:"

MS. CLARK: WELL, OBJECTION. "THAT'S TO THE RIGHT SIDE" WAS NOT IN THE TRANSCRIPT.

MR. COCHRAN: OH, I WAS JUST TRYING TO SEE -- STRIKE THAT. I WAS TRYING TO MAKE IT CLEAR FOR THE WITNESS.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: "ARE YOU SURE? "ANSWER: I'M PRETTY SURE. "QUESTION: DID YOU MAKE AN EFFORT TO LOOK AND SEE IF THERE WERE ANY CARS THERE? "ANSWER: I LOOKED TO THE RIGHT TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY CARS COMING DOWN THE STREET. "QUESTION: WELL, I'M ASKING YOU IF YOU LOOKED TO -- MADE AN EFFORT TO SEE IF THERE WAS A CAR PARKED -- "ANSWER: NO. "QUESTION BY MISS CLARK: THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CAR PARKED THERE AND YOU DIDN'T SEE IT? "ANSWER: CORRECT." DO YOU RECALL SO TESTIFYING AT THE GRAND JURY?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND AGAIN, THE EVENTS WERE FRESH IN YOUR MIND AT THAT POINT, ON OR ABOUT JUNE 17TH; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, YOU ALSO HAD OCCASION TO BE INTERVIEWED BY OFFICERS TIPPIN AND CARR ON OR ABOUT JUNE 15TH, 1994, THE FIRST TIME BEING 9:40 IN THE MORNING; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT THAT TIME, YOU GAVE THEM A COMPLETE STATEMENT OF WHAT YOU HAD OBSERVED BACK ON JUNE 12TH. ISN'T THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN YOU HAD OCCASION AFTER MAKING THE STATEMENT THAT MORNING TO TELEPHONICALLY SPEAK WITH TIPPIN AND CARR TO GIVE A FURTHER STATEMENT, ISN'T THAT CORRECT, A REINTERVIEW?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU'VE HAD OCCASION TO READ THAT; HAVE YOU NOT?

A: YES, I HAVE.

Q: OKAY. AND DO YOU REMEMBER TELLING OFFICERS TIPPIN AND CARR THAT YOU DIDN'T RECALL SEEING A CAR PARKED IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE WHEN YOU STOPPED NEAR THE ROCKINGHAM GATE? REMEMBER TELLING THEM THAT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT WAS YOUR STATE OF MIND AT THE TIME YOU TALKED TO THEM; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: IN FACT, IN NONE OF THE STATEMENTS OR IN ANY -- NONE OF THE PLACES WHERE YOU'VE TESTIFIED HAVE YOU EVER TESTIFIED ABOUT HAVING YOUR VIEW OBSTRUCTED AT ALL TO THE RIGHT, HAVE YOU, BEFORE TODAY?

A: NO.

Q: TODAY IS THE FIRST TIME WE HEARD THAT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, LET'S GO BACK TO THE TIME WHEN YOU GOT ONTO THE PREMISES THERE AT ROCKINGHAM.

A: UH-HUH.

Q: AT SOME POINT, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU DROVE THIS STRETCH LIMOUSINE ONTO THE PREMISES THERE AT ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WERE LET IN THE GATE BY MR. KATO KAELIN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU RECALL HIM COMING OUT AND OPENING THE GATE OR OPENING THE GATE SOMEWHERE OR OTHER?

A: YES.

Q: AND THIS IS AFTER YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MR. SIMPSON; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AND SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, YOU RECOG -- YOU HAD NEVER TALKED TO MR. SIMPSON BEFORE PERSONALLY; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NO.

Q: BUT IT WAS YOUR BELIEF IT WAS MR. SIMPSON YOU WERE TALKING TO BECAUSE THE VOICE THAT YOU HEARD SOUNDED JUST LIKE THE VOICE THAT YOU HEARD ON TELEVISION BROADCASTS; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. IN THAT CONVERSATION, MR. SIMPSON TOLD YOU HE HAD JUST GOT OUT OF THE SHOWER?

A: YES, HE DID.

Q: AND THAT YOU SAID HE SAID HE WAS OVERSLEPT -- HE HAD OVERSLEPT?

A: YES.

Q: THAT HE WOULD BE DOWN SHORTLY OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, EVEN AFTER YOU TALKED TO MR. SIMPSON, THE GATE DIDN'T COME OPEN AT THAT POINT, DID IT?

A: NO.

Q: AND DID YOU EVER HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM THAT NIGHT WHEREIN HE TOLD YOU THAT HE DIDN'T LIKE TO OPEN THE GATE BECAUSE THE DOG WOULD GET OUT WHEN THAT GATE WAS OPEN? DO YOU EVER REMEMBER TALKING TO HIM ABOUT THAT AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: THERE WAS A BLACK CHOW INSIDE THE RESIDENCE THERE; IS THAT --

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT WAS THE DOG THAT YOU WERE PETTING AT SOME POINT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND -- BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH MR. SIMPSON ABOUT THAT CHOW AND HIS PROPENSITY TO GO OUTSIDE THAT YOU RECALL?

A: NO. NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO AT ANY RATE, AFTER YOU TALKED WITH MR. SIMPSON, IT WAS MR. KATO KAELIN WHO YOU HAD SEEN FIRST WHO CAME OVER AND LET YOU IN AT SOMEWHERE OR OTHER; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS PERSON THAT YOU HAVE INDICATED THAT YOU SAW SOMEWHERE OUT THERE IN THE DRIVEWAY AREA -- AND YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT SOME -- WITH SOME PARTICULARITY, SO I WON'T GO INTO THAT IN DETAIL -- COULD THIS PERSON HAVE HAD A ROBE ON?

A: COULD HAVE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU -- YOU COULDN'T TELL FROM YOUR DISTANCE. YOU JUST SAW A PERSON ABOUT SIX FOOT THAT YOU FELT WAS ABOUT 200 POUNDS, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: THAT WAS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN IN DARK CLOTHING, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT YOU SAW THIS PERSON ONLY FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME AS THAT PERSON WAS GOING INTO THIS ENTRANCE WAY TO THE RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY YOU SAW THAT PERSON?

A: IT WAS VERY SHORT.

Q: JUST A --

A: SECONDS.

Q: SECONDS?

A: YES.

Q: JUST A COUPLE SECONDS?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT -- MISS CLARK ASKED YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT GLASSES. WERE YOU WEARING YOUR GLASSES THAT NIGHT?

A: NO.

Q: IT WAS A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. AND THEN AS I UNDERSTOOD YOUR TESTIMONY, THIS PERSON THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US WENT INSIDE THE -- APPEARED TO GO INSIDE THE RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THERE WAS A GAP OF NO MORE THAN FIVE OR SIX MINUTES BETWEEN THE FIRST TIME YOU ACTUALLY COULD SEE AND IDENTIFY MR. O.J. SIMPSON THAT EVENING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON, BY THIS TIME, YOU HAD PULLED INTO THE DRIVEWAY AREA; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: REPEAT THAT?

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON COME DOWN AND COME OUT OF THE HOUSE, YOU HAD BY THIS TIME PULLED INTO THE DRIVEWAY AREA.

A: YES.

Q: CORRECT? AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WERE YOU INSIDE THE STRETCH LIMOUSINE AT THAT POINT OR NOT?

A: WHEN HE CAME OUT?

Q: YES. WHEN MR. SIMPSON CAME --

A: NO. I WAS OUTSIDE.

Q: YOU WERE OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU PULLED IT IN. AND WOULD IT BE -- WOULD I BE CORRECT IF I HAD A WORD PICTURE OF YOU, THAT THE DRIVER'S DOOR OF THE LIMOUSINE, THE FRONT DRIVER'S DOOR WAS SOMEWHERE IN FRONT OF THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE THERE AT 360?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU STANDING WHEN MR. SIMPSON CAME OUT?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, IT WAS -- IT WAS SOMEWHERE IN THAT VICINITY OF THE FRONT END OF THE LIMOUSINE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, WHEN YOU DROVE INTO THIS LOCATION, THERE WERE ALREADY SOME BAGS ALREADY OUT THERE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: SO NOW -- SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, I WANT YOU TO DESCRIBE FOR THIS COURT AND JURY WHAT BAGS DID YOU SEE AFTER YOU GAINED ENTRANCE INTO THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY. TELL US WHAT YOU SAW ON THE GROUND OR IN AND AROUND THE PREMISES THERE THAT WERE ALREADY OUT.

A: THE ONLY BAGS THAT I SAW AT THAT TIME WERE JUST THE TWO DUFFLE BAGS ON THE PORCH. Q: AND THESE WERE THE BAGS THAT YOU DESCRIBED AS BEING DARK IN COLOR?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT YOU I THINK INDICATED THAT AT LEAST IN LENGTH, WERE THEY BOTH ABOUT THREE FEET?

A: SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE, YEAH.

Q: I THINK THE COURT SAID SOMETHING LIKE 36 INCHES. DO YOU RECALL?

A: YES.

Q: AND ABOUT HOW TALL WERE THEY?

A: A FOOT, FOOT AND A HALF.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THESE WERE TWO BLACK, FOR WANT OF A BETTER WORD, WE'LL CALL THEM DUFFLE BAGS. AND WHERE WERE THEY WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THEM?

A: THEY WOULD BE ON THE -- UH, THE ENTRANCE WAY OF THE HOUSE, JUST AT THE END OF THE PATIO BY THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: END OF THE PATIO BY THE DRIVEWAY?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I HAVE JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, CAN I TRY TO FIND ONE OF THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS? THANK YOU.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO ASK MR. HARRIS TO PUT PEOPLE'S 66-E FOR IDENTIFICATION UP ON THE BOARD IF WE MIGHT.

THE COURT: YES.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU RECALL HAVING BEEN ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR EXHIBIT ON DIRECT EXAMINATION; DO YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT PEOPLE'S 66-E FOR IDENTIFICATION AND I WANT YOU TO TELL THE JURY IF YOU WILL WHERE THESE TWO BLACK DUFFLE BAGS WERE WHEN YOU DROVE INTO THAT DRIVEWAY.

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, THEY WOULD BE JUST A LITTLE BIT CLOSER TO THE ENTRANCE WAY BEHIND THE "Y" IN "DRIVEWAY."

Q: I MISSED THAT. I'M SORRY. IT WAS NEAR WHERE?

A: UH, BEHIND THE "Y" IN "DRIVEWAY" --

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: -- JUST A LITTLE BIT PAST THAT TOWARDS THE CORNER.

Q: SO WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT IT WOULD BE BETWEEN THE "Y" IN "DRIVEWAY" ON PEOPLE'S 66, BETWEEN THE "Y" AND THAT CIRCLE THAT APPROACHES THE ENTRANCE WAY?

A: YES. THAT WOULD BE ABOUT RIGHT.

Q: AND WHERE WERE THEY? WERE THEY ON THE GROUND OR WERE THEY ON SOME OBJECTS OR WHAT AT THAT POINT?

A: THEY WERE ON THE GROUND.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THEY WERE JUST ON THE GROUND THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THE DOOR, WHAT APPARENTLY IS THE FRONT DOOR OF THAT RESIDENCE AS YOU PULLED IN THERE? WAS IT OPEN OR CLOSED OR WHAT?

A: IT WAS OPEN.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU SEE SOME LIGHT EMANATING FROM INSIDE THE RESIDENCE?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AT THAT POINT, YOU DIDN'T SEE MR. SIMPSON; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE KATO KAELIN AT THAT POINT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS KATO KAELIN SOMEWHERE OUT ON THAT DRIVEWAY AREA THERE?

A: YES, HE WAS.

Q: AT THAT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO NOW, AT THAT POINT, YOU DESCRIBED THE TWO BLACK DUFFLE BAGS AND WHERE THEY WERE. DID YOU SEE SOME OTHER BAGS THAT WERE IN AND AROUND ON THAT DRIVEWAY AREA AFTER YOU SAW THE TWO DUFFLE BAGS, SIR?

A: UH, LATER ON, I SAW THE ONE DUFFLE BAG WHERE IT'S MARKED "B".

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT WAS LATER ON AND PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT BAG THAT'S MARKED "B" ON -- IS THIS PEOPLE'S 66-E? FROM THE FRONT OF YOUR VEHICLE TO WHERE THAT "B" IS MARKED THERE IN THE DRIVEWAY, HOW FAR IS THAT?

A: UH, THAT'S PROBABLY ABOUT 20 FEET, 25 FEET.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HOW CLOSE DID YOU GET TO THAT -- THAT SMALLER BAG?

A: UH, NOT VERY CLOSE.

Q: ABOUT 20, 25 FEET AWAY?

A: YEAH.

Q: OKAY. AND THAT'S AS CLOSE AS YOU GOT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND CAN YOU AGAIN DESCRIBE THAT, WHAT COLOR WAS THAT BAG?

A: JUST SEEMED TO BE DARK FROM WHERE I WAS. IT WAS DARK IN THAT AREA.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO YOU JUST SAW IT FROM A DISTANCE I THINK; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WEREN'T WEARING YOUR GLASSES AT THAT POINT?

A: NO.

Q: SO THAT WAS THE THIRD BAG THAT YOU SAW?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU SEE SOME OTHER BAG OUT THERE IN THE DRIVEWAY AREA PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THE GOLF CLUBS AT SOME POINT.

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN IS THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THE GOLF CLUBS?

A: WHEN MR. SIMPSON GOT THEM.

Q: AND YOUR -- YOUR RECOLLECTION IS, WHERE DID MR. SIMPSON GET THE GOLF CLUBS FROM?

A: I DIDN'T SEE THAT.

Q: YOU JUST SAW HIM WITH THE GOLF CLUBS?

A: I SAW HIM HAND THEM TO KATO.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE HE HAD GOTTEN THEM FROM?

A: NO.

Q: AND PRIOR TO MR. SIMPSON HANDING THESE GOLD CLUBS TO KATO KAELIN, YOU HADN'T SEEN WHERE HE GOT THEM, RIGHT?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DID DESCRIBE FOR US, DID YOU NOT, THAT THE GOLF CLUBS APPEARED TO BE LIKE A BAG WITHIN A BAG OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT WITH GREATER PARTICULARITY?

A: UH, IT WAS JUST AN ALL BLACK SHEATH OVER THE -- OVER THE GOLF BAGS THAT HAD A SWISS ARMY EMBLEM ON IT.

Q: YES. AND SO IF I UNDERSTAND YOU CORRECTLY, YOU COULDN'T SEE THE GOLF CLUBS THEMSELVES; IS THAT CORRECT? THEY WERE ALL COVERED UP BY ANOTHER BAG THAT WAS OVER THE GOLF BAG.

A: CORRECT.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND THIS SHEATH THAT WAS OVER THE GOLF BAG HAD SOME SORT OF A SWISS ARMY EMBLEM?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT COLOR WAS THAT?

A: THE EMBLEM?

Q: YEAH.

A: WHITE.

Q: AND WHAT COLOR WAS THE BAG?

A: BLACK.

Q: NOW, AFTER THIS FIVE- OR SIX-MINUTE PERIOD OF TIME THAT MR. SIMPSON CAME DOWN AND CAME OUT THE ENTRANCE WAY YOU DESCRIBED FOR US, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US EARLIER HE WAS CARRYING SOME SORT OF A BAG. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT KIND OF BAG WAS THAT?

A: UH, IT WAS A GARMENT BAG THAT, UH, RESEMBLED THE GUCCI PATTERN, GUCCI BAG PATTERN.

Q: ALL RIGHT. LET ME -- YOU'VE BEEN SAYING GUCCI PATTERN. DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LOUIS VUITTON AND GUCCI?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. IF I WERE -- YOU DON'T, DO YOU? OKAY. TRYING TO SEE.

THE COURT: DON'T LOOK AT ME.

MR. COCHRAN: NO, I WOULDN'T. SOMEBODY HERE HAS ONE, BUT I -- TOMORROW, TOMORROW.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. BUT SO WHEN YOU SAY IT LOOKS LIKE GUCCI PATTERN, YOU KNOW IT'S ONE OF THOSE DESIGNER PATTERNS. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US?

A: YES.

Q: SO -- HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THOSE BAGS WITH THOSE LITTLE LV'S ON THEM THAT ARE KIND OF BROWN, LV STANDING FOR LOUIS VUITTON?

A: UH, I CAN'T SAY I HAVE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. IF YOU WERE TO EVER SEE ANY OF THESE BAGS AGAIN, DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD RECOGNIZE THEM?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AT ANY RATE, WHATEVER THIS BAG SAID, IT HAD SOME WRITING ON IT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT COLOR WAS IT?

A: UH, IT WAS A BEIGE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THIS BAG WAS -- HOW DID YOU SEE MR. SIMPSON WITH THIS BAG WHEN HE CAME OUT THAT FRONT DOOR? HOW WAS HE -- WAS HE CARRYING IT?

A: YEAH, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER. IT WAS -- IT WAS A BAG THAT IT FELT -- IT FOLDED IN HALF --

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: -- HAD A HANDLE IN THE MIDDLE FROM WHAT I REMEMBER AND --

Q: HE WAS CARRYING IT WAS HE?

A: YEAH.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU SAW HIM CARRYING IT IN HIS HANDS; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU SEE, DID HE PLACE THAT BAG DOWN SOMEWHERE WHEN HE FIRST CAME DOWN?

A: FROM -- FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, HE SET IT BY THE OTHER DUFFLE BAGS.

Q: SO AT THAT POINT, THERE WOULD BE PERHAPS THREE BAGS. THERE WOULD BE TWO BLACK DUFFLE BAGS AND THIS DESIGNER BAG, WE'LL CALL IT DESIGNER BAG; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. SO AT THIS POINT, YOU KNOW ABOUT THOSE THREE PLUS LATER ON, YOU SEE THE BAG MARKED AT "B" AT 66-E; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT THIS POINT, YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE GOLF CLUBS OR HAVE YOU?

A: UH, NO.

Q: OKAY. NOW, WHEN YOU FIRST SEE MR. SIMPSON, DO THE TWO OF YOU GREET EACH OTHER AT THAT POINT?

A: I CAN'T REMEMBER THAT -- IF --

Q: ALL RIGHT. IS HE APPARENTLY RUSHING AROUND AT THIS POINT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT TIME IS IT BY NOW?

A: NOW, IT IS ABOUT, RIGHT AROUND 11:00 O'CLOCK, LITTLE BIT AFTER.

Q: RIGHT AROUND 11:00 OR SHORTLY AFTER 11:00; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YEAH. YES.

Q: AND DO YOU HAVE SOME CONCERN AT THIS POINT ABOUT MAKING YOUR FLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND NOW, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE EVER PICKED UP O.J. SIMPSON AND YOU KIND OF WANT TO BE ON TIME?

A: YES.

Q: YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO MISS THAT FLIGHT?

A: I WOULDN'T WANT HIM TO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO DO THAT FOR ANY CLIENT INCLUDING MR. SIMPSON. IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU HAVE SOME CONCERN ABOUT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DESCRIBE FOR THE JURY AGAIN IF YOU WOULD WHAT MR. SIMPSON WAS WEARING AS BEST YOU CAN RECALL ON THAT PARTICULAR EVENING.

A: IT WAS, UH, KIND OF SOME STONE WASH JEANS.

Q: BY STONE WASH JEANS, IS THAT LIGHTER COLOR BLUE JEANS?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AS THOUGH THEY'VE BEEN ACTUALLY PREWASHED OR WHATEVER?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT KIND OF TOP, IF ANY, WAS HE WEARING AT THAT POINT?

A: HE HAD A WHITE SHIRT ON, WHITE COLLAR SHIRT, SEEMED TO BE ALMOST LIKE A POLO SHIRT, SHORT SLEEVED.

Q: DID YOU SEE WHETHER OR NOT HE HAD ANY KIND OF SHIRT OVER THIS, THIS WHITE SHIRT YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US?

A: UH, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, HE HAD A BLACK COAT WITH HIM. UH, FOR SOME REASON, I DON'T THINK HE WE WEARING IT THE WHOLE TIME. I'M NOT --

Q: ALL RIGHT. THIS BLACK COAT THAT YOU DESCRIBED, DO YOU RECALL THAT HE MAY HAVE HAD IT IN HIS HANDS OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECALL HIM WEARING ANY KIND OF A JEAN SHIRT TOP OVER THIS WHITE SHIRT YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU RECALL ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT HIS ATTIRE OR WHAT HE WAS WEARING THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT?

A: NO. I DIDN'T PAY THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO IT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO AT THIS POINT, WOULD I BE AGAIN CORRECT THAT YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT GETTING OUT OF THERE AT SOME POINT?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES. I WASN'T WORRIED ABOUT CLOTHES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND. AND THAT WASN'T IMPORTANT TO YOU AT THAT POINT, WAS IT?

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU SAW HIM BRIEFLY. YOU KNEW NOW THAT THERE WAS LUGGAGE ALL AROUND; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU KNEW THAT KATO KAELIN WAS IN AND ABOUT AND HE HAD SOME CONCERNS ABOUT A PERCEIVED EARTHQUAKE OR SOME NOISE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU SAW HIM WITH THIS LITTLE TINY FLASHLIGHT, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: THAT DIDN'T GIVE OFF MUCH LIGHT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AT SOME POINT, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US HOW MR. KAELIN HAD TRIED AT POINT "K" TO GET THE DOG -- BY THE WAY, DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE CALLED THE DOG?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT WAS IT? WHAT WAS THE DOG'S NAME, IF YOU RECALL?

A: UH, IT WAS --

Q: WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION IF I SAID CHACHI?

A: YEAH.

Q: DOES THAT SOUND ABOUT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO WHEN HE WAS CALLING FOR THIS DOG CHACHI TO COME WITH HIM -- THAT WAS THE NAME HE USED; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT HE USED?

Q: YEAH. WHEN YOU SAID THAT HE TRIED TO CALL THE DOG?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU WERE PETTING THE DOG?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU ALSO DESCRIBED FOR US, SIR, THAT MR. SIMPSON AND MR. KATO KAELIN WENT INTO THE HOUSE ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: I REMEMBER SIMPSON ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS. I DON'T REMEMBER KATO. I REMEMBER THEY WERE IN THE HOUSE TOGETHER AT ONE TIME, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. LET'S TAKE MR. SIMPSON FIRST IF WE CAN. THIS IS AFTER MR. SIMPSON HAS COME OUT AND BROUGHT THIS DESIGNER BAG AND PUT IT DOWN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THIS IS AFTER NOW 11:00 O'CLOCK; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S FAIR TO SAY, YES.

Q: AND ON HOW MANY OCCASIONS DID YOU SEE MR. SIMPSON GO BACK INTO THE RESIDENCE THERE?

A: IT WAS TWO OR THREE TIMES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DID HE GO BACK THROUGH THAT AREA MARKED ENTRANCE THERE, THE FRONT ENTRANCE THERE ON PEOPLE'S 66-E FOR IDENTIFICATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU RECALL HOW LONG HE STAYED IN THE HOUSE ON EACH OCCASION?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU SAW HIM GO IN AT LEAST TWO OR THREE TIMES; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU EVER WALK UP AND LOOK AT THE ENTRYWAY OR THE FOYER AREA OF THAT PARTICULAR RESIDENCE?

A: UH, FOR -- I REMEMBER AT ONE TIME, I THINK I WAS ACTUALLY STANDING INSIDE THERE JUST FOR A COUPLE SECONDS.

Q: INSIDE THE FOYER AREA?

A: YES.

Q: LET ME SHOW YOU THAT AREA AND SEE IF IT REFRESHES YOUR RECOLLECTION AND UNDERSTANDING. LET ME WITH THE COURT'S INDULGENCE PUT PEOPLE'S 112 FOR IDENTIFICATION AND ASK MR. PARK TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU RECALL THAT THAT APPEARS TO BE THE FOYER AREA INTO THE FRONT OF THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: THAT SOUNDS -- THAT SEEMS FAMILIAR TO YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU SEE THE FRONT DOOR THERE IN THAT PICTURE WITH THE KIND OF A STAIN-GLASSED WINDOW?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND THAT'S THE DOOR THAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING EARLIER AS HAVING BEEN OPEN; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND IT'S YOUR TESTIMONY THAT FROM THE TIME YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON COME OUT OF THE RESIDENCE AND BEFORE YOU LEFT TO GO TO THE AIRPORT, MR. SIMPSON CAME BACK INSIDE THAT RESIDENCE TWO TO THREE TIMES, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ON ONE OF THOSE OCCASIONS, KATO KAELIN CAME INSIDE WITH HIM ALSO; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND CAN YOU TELL US WHERE KATO KAELIN WAS OR HOW FAR IN THE RESIDENCE HE CAME AT THAT POINT ON THAT OCCASION?

A: FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, HE WAS JUST STANDING IN THAT AREA.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAY "IN THAT AREA," WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

A: IN THE GENERAL AREA OF THE ENTRANCE WAY. JUST A -- HE NEVER LEFT. HE NEVER LEFT THE, UH -- HE NEVER WENT THROUGH ANY OF THE DOORS OR WENT UPSTAIRS OR NOTHING.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO WHEN YOU SAY "IN THAT AREA," YOU'RE TALKING -- YOU SEE THE AREA THAT HAS APPARENTLY THE WOOD FLOORS THERE?

A: YES.

Q: THAT'S THE GENERAL AREA YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

A: YES.

Q: RIGHT? SO YOU SAW KATO KAELIN STANDING IN THAT AREA AT LEAST ON THE ONE OCCASION HE CAME IN?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER 11 O'CLOCK. NOW -- IS THAT YES?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND THEN YOU DESCRIBED FOR US, SIR, THAT YOU ALSO MAY HAVE COME IN PART OF THE WAY AT SOME POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE JURY AGAIN WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN AND WHERE YOU WERE?

A: I WOULD HAVE JUST BEEN MAYBE TWO OR THREE FEET INSIDE THE FRONT DOOR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AGAIN, YOU WERE FAR ENOUGH INSIDE THE FRONT DOOR SO THAT YOU WOULD BE ON THE WOOD FLOOR, THE HARDWOOD FLOOR?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WAS THAT AT THE TIME WHEN KATO KAELIN WAS THERE OR WAS THAT AT THE TIME WHEN MR. SIMPSON WAS INSIDE THERE, IF YOU RECALL?

A: I DON'T RECALL. I CAN'T REMEMBER THAT.

Q: YOU JUST KNOW THAT ON SOME OCCASION, YOU CAME INSIDE OR AT LEAST TWO TO THREE FEET INSIDE THAT DOOR?

A: ON ONE, YES.

Q: AS DEPICTED IN PEOPLE'S 112 FOR IDENTIFICATION?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IF THAT DOOR WERE OPEN, YOUR VEHICLE WOULD BE PARKED DIRECTLY ACROSS FROM THE DOOR WITH THE DRIVER'S SIDE DOOR SOMEWHAT PARALLEL TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU WERE INSIDE THAT FOYER AREA SOME TWO TO THREE FEET INSIDE THERE, DID YOU SEE MR. SIMPSON AT THAT POINT, WHERE HE WAS?

A: UH, FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, WHEN I WAS IN THERE, HE WAS IN THE FRONT AREA ALSO.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: WHERE I WAS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU SAY "FRONT AREA," WELL, WHERE WAS HE IN RELATION TO WHERE YOU WERE, SIR?

A: IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FARTHER BACK INTO THE HOUSE. JUST FROM -- FROM WHAT I REMEMBER, THERE'S A WALL.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO LET'S ASSUME, IF I CAN GET A WORD PICTURE FROM YOU, IF YOU WERE TWO TO THREE FEET INSIDE THE DOOR THERE, MR. SIMPSON WOULD BE TOWARD THE FOREGROUND OF THIS PARTICULAR PICTURE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, HE WOULD BE CLOSER TO WHERE THAT PLANT IS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU RECALL AT ANY POINT SEEING HIM GO IN SOME OTHER ROOM DOWNSTAIRS IN THE HOUSE WHILE YOU WERE IN THERE?

A: UH, I CAN'T REMEMBER THAT. I WASN'T IN THERE VERY LONG. I REMEMBER TURNING AROUND AND WALKING OUT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHY YOU CAME IN AT THAT POINT AT ALL?

A: UH, ACTUALLY, NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THIS -- AT THAT POINT, THAT WASN'T TERRIBLY IMPORTANT TO YOU, WAS IT?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT YOU DID AND YOU HAVE A RECOLLECTION OF IT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THEN YOU WENT BACK OUTSIDE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND NOW, YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR THE COURT AND JURY THAT AT SOME POINT, MR. SIMPSON OVERHEARD A CONVERSATION BETWEEN YOU AND KATO KAELIN REGARDING THIS EARTHQUAKE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN MR. SIMPSON ASKED IN KIND OF QUIZZICAL TONES, "OH, DID WE HAVE AN EARTHQUAKE," IS THAT -- WORDS TO THAT EFFECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU -- WAS MR. SIMPSON OUTSIDE THERE WHEN KATO KAELIN ASKED YOU IF YOU HAD A LARGER FLASHLIGHT?

A: I'M NOT POSITIVE, NO.

Q: DID YOU EVER HEAR MR. SIMPSON MAKE REFERENCE TO A FLASHLIGHT OR POSSIBLY HAVING A FLASHLIGHT INSIDE THE HOUSE AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT HE EVER WENT INSIDE LOOKING FOR A FLASHLIGHT?

A: UH, SIMPSON OR KATO?

Q: MR. SIMPSON.

A: NO. NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q: OR MR. KATO?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU EVER HEAR MR. SIMPSON MAKE REFERENCE TO LOOKING FOR HIS PHONE BOOK OR HAVING HIS PHONE BOOK?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU EVER SEE A PORTABLE PHONE IN MR. SIMPSON'S HANDS AT ANY TIME THAT NIGHT?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER.

Q: SO AT ANY RATE, AFTER THIS TWO OR THREE TIMES THAT MR. SIMPSON CAME INSIDE THE RESIDENCE, AT SOME POINT, HE WENT BACK OUTSIDE IN THE DRIVEWAY AREA; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. BY THE WAY, IN THE DRIVEWAY AREA, DID YOU SEE ANY SPOTS OR ANYTHING ON THE DRIVEWAY THAT PARTICULAR --

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY SPOTS IN THE HOUSE AT ALL?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: YOU DIDN'T NOTICE ANY SPOTS ANYWHERE, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AS YOU DROVE YOUR CAR IN THAT DRIVEWAY AND OUT THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, YOU WEREN'T MINDFUL OR COGNIZANT OF ANY SPOTS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE BEEN THERE?

A: NO.

Q: HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY THAT THE LIMOUSINE, THE STRETCH LIMOUSINE WAS PARKED RIGHT OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR OF THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE BEFORE YOU HAD OCCASION TO MOVE IT?

A: HOW LONG WAS IT PARKED IN HIS DRIVEWAY?

Q: YES. IN HIS DRIVEWAY BEFORE YOU LEFT TO GO TO THE AIRPORT.

A: 10, 15 MINUTES IF THAT.

Q: AT MOST. SO WHAT TIME WOULD YOU PLACE YOURSELF AS GETTING IN THERE AND PULLING INTO THE DRIVEWAY? WHAT TIME WOULD THAT BE?

A: THAT WOULD BE AT ABOUT 10:56, 10:57.

Q: ABOUT 10:56, 10:57?

A: SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE, YES.

Q: AND YOU HAD SEEN THIS FIGURE THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED IN DARK CLOTHING WHILE YOU ARE ON THE PHONE WITH DALE ST. JOHN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AFTER 10:52.17; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IT WAS PRIOR TO THE END OF YOUR CONVERSATION WITH DALE ST. JOHN, WHICH WAS AT 10:55 AND 12 SECONDS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU TELL US THAT YOU CONTINUED TO TALK TO ST. JOHN FOR A PERIOD OF TIME AFTER YOU SAW THIS FIGURE?

A: UH, YES, JUST FOR VERY BRIEFLY, A FEW SECONDS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO WOULD YOUR ESTIMATE BE THAT YOU SAW THIS FIGURE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 10:54 AND 10:55?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU THEN CONCLUDED YOUR CONVERSATION WITH ST. JOHN; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU THEN SHORTLY THEREAFTER GAINED ENTRANCE TO THE ROCKINGHAM ESTATE THERE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: BECAUSE OF KATO KAELIN. AND YOU HAD PLACED THAT WITHIN A COUPLE OF MINUTES THAT YOU GOT INSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN YOU WERE THEN IN THERE FOR APPROXIMATELY 10 TO 15 MINUTES; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU LEFT THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 11:05 AND 11:15 IS YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES. I -- I KNOW IT WAS AFTER 11:05.

Q: AFTER 11:05?

A: YEAH.

Q: AND MAYBE BEFORE 11:15?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: IT WASN'T -- IT WASN'T AFTER 11:15. IT WASN'T BEFORE 11:05.

Q: SO IT WAS AFTER 11:05 AND BEFORE 11:15 PROBABLY?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AT SOME POINT, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT YOU GOT -- ALL OF THESE BAGS WERE ASSEMBLED. IN FACT, YOU PUT SOME BAGS INTO THE VEHICLE YOURSELF; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU PUT THE TWO -- WHICH BAGS DID YOU PUT INSIDE THE VEHICLE?

A: I PUT IN THE DESIGNER BAG INTO THE TRUNK.

Q: OKAY.

A: AND THE TWO DUFFLE BAGS THAT WERE ON THE PORCH, I ASKED HIM WHERE HE WOULD LIKE THOSE.

Q: HE ANSWERED?

A: AND HE SAID HE WANTED THOSE INSIDE THE CAR.

Q: AND YOU DESCRIBED I BELIEVE IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF MISS CLARK'S QUESTIONS THAT THE -- ONE OF THESE BLACK DUFFLE BAGS WAS UNZIPPED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND -- BUT DID YOU LOOK INSIDE AND SEE THE CONTENTS?

A: NO. WASN'T --

Q: WOULD BE IN BAD FORM, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: TO PEEK INSIDE SOMEBODY'S LUGGAGE?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU DIDN'T DO THAT, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: AT ANY RATE, YOU PUT THOSE TWO BAGS INSIDE THE CAR?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN PUTTING ANY OTHER BAGS INSIDE THAT CAR?

A: NOT THAT I REMEMBER. I MIGHT HAVE READJUSTED THE GOLF BAGS WITH KATO OR SOMETHING.

Q: AND KATO PUT THE -- AFTER BEING HANDED THE GOLF BAG, IT IS YOUR RECOMMENDATION -- STRIKE THAT. YOUR RECOLLECTION IS THAT KATO KAELIN ACTUALLY PUT THIS GOLF BAG INTO THE LIMOUSINE AT SOME POINT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND HE RECEIVED IT -- YOUR RECOLLECTION IS, HE RECEIVED IT FROM MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: RIGHT? AND WHERE DID HE PUT THE GOLF BAG?

A: INTO THE TRUNK.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WITH REGARD TO THE BAG, THE SMALLER BAG WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT MARKED AT "B" THERE ON THE DIAGRAM THAT'S NOW UP AGAIN, PLAINTIFF'S 66-E, YOU DON'T RECALL WHETHER THAT BAG WAS PLACED INSIDE OR -- INSIDE THE VEHICLE OR IN THE TRUNK OF THE VEHICLE, DO YOU?

A: CORRECT.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, SO ON SOME POINT, YOU -- ALL THE BAGS ARE IN THE CAR AND YOU'RE ABOUT READY TO LEAVE AT THAT POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHERE WAS KATO KAELIN AT THE POINT WHEN YOU WERE JUST ABOUT TO LEAVE THE RESIDENCE?

A: HE WAS -- HE WAS JUST ABOUT WHERE THE "K" IS. HE WAS -- HE WAS IN THAT AREA.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THIS WAS PRIOR TO -- THIS IS -- THIS IS ABOUT THE LOCATION HE IS (INDICATING)? AND FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, THERE ARE TWO K'S. SO WHICH "K" ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? THE BLUE "K" OR THE RED "K"?

A: YES. DOWN BY THE CORNER OF THE GARAGE. THE BLUE "K".

Q: THE BLUE "K" DOWN BY THE CORNER OF THE GARAGE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT WAS AFTER THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU HEARD WHEREIN MR. SIMPSON WAS GOING TO GO ONE WAY AND HE WAS GOING TO GO THE OTHER WAY TO LOOK FOR THIS SOUND OR THIS NOISE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN MR. SIMPSON NOTICED WHAT TIME IT WAS AND HE SAID, "WE GOT TO GO"; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU ENDORSED THAT, AGREED WITH THAT; DID YOU NOT?

A: YES. I THOUGHT WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT A WHILE AGO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU WERE ALREADY KIND OF LATE AS FAR AS YOU WERE CONCERNED?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THIS WAS FAIRLY UNFAMILIAR TERRITORY FOR YOU I PRESUME. YOU HAD NOT EVER GONE TO LAX FROM THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU LEFT KATO AT POINT "K", BLUE "K", YOUR HONOR, ON 66-E, AND THEN DID YOU THEN PREPARE TO LEAVE THE RESIDENCE?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IN RESPONSE TO QUESTIONS THAT I'VE ASKED YOU EARLIER FROM THE GRAND JURY AND THE PRELIMINARY HEARING TESTIMONY, YOU THEN PROCEEDED OUT THE ROCKINGHAM GATE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND DOES THAT GATE OPEN AUTOMATICALLY WHEN YOU DRIVE UP TO IT?

A: UH, I THINK KATO HAD TO OPEN IT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU THINK THAT KATO CAME AND OPENED IT?

A: YEAH. HE WALKED BACK OVER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO THEN HE THEN LEFT POINT "K", BLUE "K" AND WALKED OVER TO THE FRONT THERE ON ROCKINGHAM?

A: CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHEN YOU THEN PULLED OUT ONTO ROCKINGHAM AND YOU TURNED LEFT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: TO GO BACK. WERE YOU GOING TOWARDS SUNSET?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY THEN, NOW YOU AND MR. SIMPSON ARE OF COURSE ALONE IN THE CAR, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND HE GIVES YOU SOME DIRECTIONS ABOUT HOW TO GET TO LAX, DOES HE?

A: UH, NOT AT THAT POINT, NO. JUST --

Q: AT SOME POINT DURING THE RIDE?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU KNOW HOW TO GET BACK TO SUNSET, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THAT WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO SUNSET AND THE 405, YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE TO TURN LEFT TO GO UP BY THAT KIND OF CIRCULAR HOTEL THERE?

A: YES. BECAUSE I'VE -- IN PREVIOUS JOBS, I USED TO DELIVER SOME EQUIPMENT TO UCLA. SO I USED TO COME BACK ACROSS THE BRIDGE AND THEN GO AROUND THAT WAY. SO I -- I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE ONLY WAY BACK ON THE FREEWAY. I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE ON THE RIGHT SIDE, WHICH HE TOLD ME.

Q: MR. SIMPSON TOLD YOU ABOUT?

A: YES.

Q: THE WAY YOU COULD GO TO THE RIGHT OR SOUTH; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: EXACTLY.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU MISSED THAT, YOU MISSED THE FIRST ON RAMP GOING SOUTH ON THE 405; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: BUT YOU WERE TOLD THAT IF YOU CONTINUED GOING SOUTHBOUND ON THE SURFACE STREETS, YOU WOULD RUN INTO ANOTHER ON RAMP?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU DID THAT; DID YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AT SOME POINT, HE ALSO GAVE YOU SOME GUIDANCE WITH REGARD TO GETTING OFF AT SEPULVEDA TO SAVE SOME TIME.

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT? NOW, YOU DESCRIBED IN RESPONSE TO ONE OF MISS CLARK'S QUESTIONS THAT IT WAS A JUNE NIGHT, THAT I BELIEVE YOU SAID IT WAS SOMEWHERE PERHAPS 68 TO 70 DEGREES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

A: SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. IT WAS JUNE. AND MR. SIMPSON SAID TO YOU ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS, MAYBE TWO, POSSIBLY THREE OCCASIONS IN A ROW THAT, "I'M HOT," WORDS TO THAT EFFECT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU TOLD HIM OR SHOWED HIM WHERE THE AIR CONDITIONING WAS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: UH, I DON'T KNOW IF I SHOWED HIM. I TOLD HIM THAT HE COULD USE THE AIR CONDITIONER.

Q: AND YOU COULD HEAR THE AIR CONDITIONER COMING ON?

A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND IN MOST LIMOUSINES, THERE'S A PARTITION BETWEEN THE -- WHERE THE CLIENT SITS AND WHERE THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER SITS. AND WAS THAT PARTITION DOWN DURING THE COURSE OF YOUR RIDE?

A: YES.

Q: SO THE TWO OF YOU COULD TALK BACK AND FORTH; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AS YOU DROVE UP, DID YOU DRIVE FAIRLY RAPIDLY?

A: YES.

Q: BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO MAKE THIS FLIGHT AGAIN; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: SO YOU GOT ON THE 405 AND WERE MOVING OUT, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. YOU DESCRIBED THAT AT SOME POINT, DID MR. SIMPSON ASK YOU WHERE THE LIGHT WAS BACK THERE, THE REAR COMPARTMENT?

A: YEAH. HE WAS -- HE ASKED ME WHERE A LIGHT WAS.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID TO MISS CLARK WAS, THE LIGHT WAS ONLY ON BRIEFLY, FOR PERHAPS 20 TO 30 SECONDS AT MOST; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND MR. SIMPSON SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT THAT, "I WAS RUSHING AROUND TRYING TO GET PACKED, I'M SURE I'M FORGETTING SOMETHING," OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES. EVERYBODY SAYS THAT.

Q: AND THAT DIDN'T SEEM OUT OF THE ORDINARY TO YOU, DID IT?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAD IN FACT SEEN HIM RUSHING AROUND; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND HE HAD ALSO TOLD YOU HE HAD TAKEN A SHOWER; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU DIDN'T THINK IT UNUSUAL THAT HE WAS SWEATING OCCASIONALLY, DID YOU? HAVING RUSHED AROUND AND TAKEN A SHOWER, IT WASN'T UNUSUAL THAT HE MIGHT BE SWEATING, WAS IT?

A: NO.

Q: AND SO YOU JUST CONTINUED TO DRIVE AT THIS POINT AS YOU HAD SOME CONVERSATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AS -- YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION IS THAT MR. SIMPSON HAD THE TWO DUFFLE BAGS IN THE BACK WITH HIM; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU DON'T RECALL ANY OTHER BAGS AT THAT POINT, DO YOU?

A: BACK THERE WITH HIM?

Q: YES. BACK THERE --

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. AND DID THAT LIMOUSINE HAVE A PHONE IN THE BACK OF IT?

A: YES, IT DID.

Q: HE DIDN'T USE THE PHONE AT THAT POINT EITHER, DID HE?

A: NO.

Q: SO THE TWO OF YOU WERE JUST INTENT ON GETTING TO THE AIRPORT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU GOT TO THE AIRPORT BY 11:35?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HOW LONG WAS THE DRIVE ALTOGETHER, YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION?

A: IT WAS -- IT WAS PRETTY FAST. IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN NOT MUCH MORE THAN 10 MINUTES.

Q: YOU GOT THERE PRETTY FAST?

A: YEAH. 10, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LONGER.

Q: HOW FAST WERE YOU DRIVING?

A: I -- 75 AND 80 SOME PARTS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU WERE GOING PRETTY FAST?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND SO YOU GOT THERE AND THEN YOU WENT AROUND TO AMERICAN AIRLINES, WHICH IS -- YOU WENT AROUND TO TERMINAL FOUR, AMERICAN AIRLINES?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU PULLED UP TO THE CURB, DID YOU?

A: NOT ALL THE WAY TO THE CURB, NO. I THINK THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ANOTHER CAR.

Q: YOU GOT AS CLOSE AS YOU COULD?

A: YES.

Q: AND MR. SIMPSON ASKED YOU TO HELP BY GETTING A SKYCAP?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO GET A SKYCAP. BUT ULTIMATELY, YOU GOT ONE OF THOSE CARTS AND BROUGHT IT OVER.

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT? AND YOU LET MR. SIMPSON OUT OF THE VEHICLE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THAT, IT'S YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT AT SOME TIME, AFTER MR. SIMPSON GOT OUT AND ALTHOUGH HIS PLANE WAS LEAVING IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES, SOMEBODY APPROACHED HIM AND ASKED FOR AN AUTOGRAPH?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE HIM ACCOMMODATE THAT INDIVIDUAL?

A: YES, HE DID.

Q: AND DID HE SIGN THE AUTOGRAPH?

A: YEAH. YES.

Q: HE ALSO TOOK THE TIME TO ASK YOU OR TELL YOU TO ADD 20 PERCENT TO THE BILL?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU DO THAT?

A: I -- I TOLD DALE THAT THAT'S WHAT HE SAID, AND HE SAID, "OKAY, NO PROBLEM."

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: ACTUALLY I TOLD DALE 50 PERCENT, BUT --

Q: DID YOU GO OUT AND -- KIDDING I'M SURE.

A: YES.

Q: AT ANY RATE, BUT YOU DID IN FACT FOLLOW THROUGH WITH WHAT MR. SIMPSON HAD SAID ABOUT YOUR SERVICES THERE?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU TOOK THAT THAT YOU HAD DONE A GOOD JOB IN GETTING HIM THERE TO THE AIRPORT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES. I MEAN HE MADE IT.

Q: HUH?

A: HE MADE IT.

Q: HE DID MAKE IT?

A: YEAH.

Q: AND SO THEN YOU -- HOW LONG DID YOU -- FROM THE TIME YOU GOT THERE AT 11:35, HOW LONG DID YOU REMAIN WITH MR. SIMPSON AT THAT POINT?

A: NOT VERY LONG AT ALL.

Q: IN MINUTES, YOUR BEST ESTIMATE?

A: THREE, FOUR MINUTES.

Q: SO WOULD IT BE A FAIR STATEMENT TO SAY THAT YOU LAST SAW MR. SIMPSON SOMEWHERE 11:38, 11:39 THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT. WOULD THAT BE A FAIR STATEMENT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT HIS FLIGHT WOULD BE LEAVING ABOUT 11:45; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YEAH. THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND IN THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS, WHEN DID THIS PERSON APPROACH HIM TO GET THE AUTOGRAPH? I MEAN WAS IT AFTER -- AFTER YOU WENT AND GOT THE CART OR AT WHAT POINT WAS THAT?

A: UH, I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS RIGHT WHEN WE GOT OUT OF THE CAR TO START WITH THE BAGS OR IF IT WAS WHEN WE STARTED TO WALK UP TO THE -- TO THE SKYCAP. I JUST REMEMBER THE SCENARIO HAPPENING.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU AND MR. SIMPSON PARTICIPATED IN PUTTING THE LUGGAGE ON THIS PARTICULAR CART; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN THE CART WAS THEN TAKEN INSIDE THE TERMINAL THERE FOR AMERICAN AIRLINES?

A: NO. THE CART, I PUSHED OVER, AND THE SKYCAP HAD THE BIGGED -- THE BIGGER LUGGAGE CART WHICH I PUT THE GOLF BAGS AND THE DESIGNER BAG ONTO.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: AND THAT WAS ABOUT WHEN I LEFT.

Q: WAS THAT OUTSIDE ON THAT WALKWAY IN FRONT OF TERMINAL 4?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: IT'S KIND OF LIKE CURBSIDE CHECK-IN?

A: YES.

Q: AND THIS BIG -- THIS BIG KIND OF DOLLY OR WHATEVER WOULD BE USED TO GO ON THE CONVEYOR BELT TO GET ON THE PLANE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS THERE SOME MENTION OF THE FACT THAT THIS HAD TO BE EXPEDITED AT THIS POINT?

A: NOT THAT I KNOW, NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AT ANY RATE, YOU WERE ASKED A QUESTION WITH REGARD TO MR. SIMPSON'S TIP, NOT FOR YOU, BUT FOR THE SKYCAP. AND DO YOU RECALL THAT AT SOME POINT, MR. SIMPSON REACHED INTO HIS POCKET AND TOOK SOME CHANGE OUT?

A: YES.

Q: AND NOW, WHERE WERE YOU AT THAT POINT?

A: THAT WAS RIGHT WHEN I WAS DONE PUTTING THE GOLF CLUBS AND THE DESIGNER BAG ON THE BIGGER CART AND THAT'S WHEN I TURNED AROUND. HE WAS GETTING SOME MONEY OUT OF HIS POCKET, AND THAT'S WHEN I SAID, "SEE YOU LATER."

Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS -- AT THAT POINT, YOU WERE STILL OUT THERE ON THAT WALKWAY IN FRONT OF AMERICAN AIRLINES OR TERMINAL 4?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU SAW HIM AT THAT POINT REACH INTO HIS POCKET, BUT YOU DIDN'T SEE WHETHER HE HANDED -- WHAT HE HANDED THE SKYCAP?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO THAT'S THE LAST TIME YOU SAW HIM THEN?

A: YES.

Q: YOU THEN GOT BACK INTO YOUR VEHICLE AND TOOK OFF; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: THERE WAS NO -- ALL THE LUGGAGE HAD BEEN TAKEN OUT OF THE CAR; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: NO BLOOD IN THE BACK OF THAT CAR, WAS THERE?

A: NO.

Q: NO BLOOD ON THE CARPET OF THAT CAR, WAS THERE?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE HIM BLEEDING THAT NIGHT, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: AND THERE'S NOTHING ABOUT MR. SIMPSON THAT SEEMED UNUSUAL TO YOU THAT NIGHT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE WITNESS: LIKE --

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: LIKE I SAID, I'VE NEVER MET HIM. SO I DON'T KNOW HIS NORMAL BEHAVIOR.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THAT QUESTION BY MISS CLARK AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, PAGE 41 --

MS. CLARK: BAD QUESTION.

MR. COCHRAN: BAD -- YOU STIPULATE IT'S A BAD QUESTION?

MS. CLARK: I'LL STIPULATE.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. GOOD. I STILL WANT TO ASK -- I STILL WANT TO ASK IT. PAGE 41, LINE 23 AND 24.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THIS QUESTION -- OKAY. I'M SORRY.

MS. CLARK: 41?

MR. COCHRAN: YEAH, 41, PRELIMINARY HEARING, LINE -- LINE 23, 24.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: COUNSEL, WOULD YOU READ THROUGH LINE 22, PLEASE?

MR. COCHRAN: SURE.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: LET ME START THEN, YOUR HONOR -- LET ME BEGIN AT LINE 18 DOWN TO -- LET ME GO THROUGH 26, ALL RIGHT? "QUESTION: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE DEFENDANT'S BEHAVIOR THAT NIGHT WHEN YOU SAW HIM AT THE POINT THAT YOU WERE PACKING UP THE CAR WITH HIM AND GETTING READY TO LEAVE? "ANSWER: WELL, I'VE NEVER MET HIM BEFORE, SO EVERYTHING SEEMED OKAY TO ME. "QUESTION BY MISS CLARK: NOTHING SEEMED UNUSUAL TO YOU? "ANSWER: NO. "QUESTION: DID YOU NOTICE ANY INJURIES TO HIS HANDS? "ANSWER: NO, I DIDN'T." DO YOU RECALL SO TESTIFYING?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD POINT IF THE COURT WOULD ALLOW.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE AFTERNOON. PLEASE REMEMBER ALL OF MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU, DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU. MR. PARK, YOU MAY STEP DOWN. YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN TOMORROW MORNING AT 9:00 O'CLOCK. YOU ARE ALSO ORDERED NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY EXCEPT FOR THE LAWYERS AND YOUR OWN ATTORNEY. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER, SIR?

THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 9:00 O'CLOCK TOMORROW MORNING. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS, 9:00 O'CLOCK.

(AT 4:30 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN UNTIL, WEDNESDAY, MARCH 29, 1995, 9:00 A.M.)

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, )
)
PLAINTIFF, )
)
) VS. ) NO. BA097211
)
ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
)
)
DEFENDANT. )

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

TUESDAY, MARCH 28, 1995
VOLUME 115

PAGES 20425 THROUGH 20703, INCLUSIVE
(PAGES 20410 THROUGH 20424, INCLUSIVE, SEALED)

APPEARANCES: (SEE PAGE 2)

JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR #4588
CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR #2378 OFFICIAL REPORTERS

APPEARANCES:

FOR THE PEOPLE: GIL GARCETTI, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
BY: MARCIA R. CLARK, WILLIAM W.
HODGMAN, CHRISTOPHER A. DARDEN,
CHERI A. LEWIS, ROCKNE P. HARMON,
GEORGE W. CLARKE, SCOTT M. GORDON
LYDIA C. BODIN, HANK M. GOLDBERG,
ALAN YOCHELSON AND DARRELL S.
MAVIS, DEPUTIES
18-000 CRIMINAL COURTS BUILDING
210 WEST TEMPLE STREET
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90012

FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT L. SHAPIRO, ESQUIRE
SARA L. CAPLAN, ESQUIRE
2121 AVENUE OF THE STARS
19TH FLOOR
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90067

JOHNNIE L. COCHRAN, JR., ESQUIRE
BY: CARL E. DOUGLAS, ESQUIRE
SHAWN SNIDER CHAPMAN, ESQUIRE
4929 WILSHIRE BOULEVARD
SUITE 1010
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90010

GERALD F. UELMEN, ESQUIRE
ROBERT KARDASHIAN, ESQUIRE
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ESQUIRE
F. LEE BAILEY, ESQUIRE
BARRY SCHECK, ESQUIRE
ROBERT D. BLASIER, ESQUIRE

I N D E X

INDEX FOR VOLUME 115 PAGES 20425 - 20703

-----------------------------------------------------

DAY DATE SESSION PAGE VOL.

TUESDAY MARCH 27, 1995 A.M. 20425 115
P.M. 20547 115

-----------------------------------------------------

LEGEND:

MS. CLARK - MC
MR. HODGMAN - H
MR. DARDEN D
MR. KAHN - K
MR. GOLDBERG - GB
MR. GORDON - G
MR. SHAPIRO - S
MR. COCHRAN - C
MR. DOUGLAS - CD
MR. BAILEY - B
MR. UELMEN - U
MR. SCHECK - BS
MR. NEUFELD - N

-----------------------------------------------------

CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES

PEOPLE'S
WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL.

KAELIN, BRIAN 115 KATO
(RESUMED) 20430S
(FURTHER) 20433MC 20451S

FERRARA, RACHEL 20458MC 20480C 20491MC 20501C 115 (FURTHER) 20502MC

PARK, ALLAN 20510MC 115 (RESUMED) 20549MC 20631C

-----------------------------------------------------

ALPHABETICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES

PEOPLE'S
WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL.

FERRARA, RACHEL 20458MC 20480C 20491MC 20501C 115 (FURTHER) 20502MC

KAELIN, BRIAN 115 KATO
(RESUMED) 20430S
(FURTHER) 20433MC 20451S

PARK, ALLAN 20510MC 115 (RESUMED) 20549MC 20631C

EXHIBITS

PEOPLE'S FOR IN EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE
PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.

62-A(1) - PHOTOGRAPH OF 20519 115
360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM WITH A WHITE VEHICLE, A
GREEN CIRCLE AND THE INITIALS "A.K."

63-E - PHOTOGRAPH OF 20520 115
360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM WITH A GREEN ARROW, CIRCLE
AND THE INITIALS "A.P."

66-B - COMPUTER PRINTOUT 20525 115
OF DIAGRAM WITH TWO WHITE ARROWS, MARKINGS AND
THE INITIALS "A.P."

146 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 20528 115
A CORNER OF ROCKINGHAM WITH A POLICE VEHICLE

147 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 20528 115
THE GATE ENTRANCE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM

64-B - PHOTOGRAPH OF 20535 115
OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM WITH AN ARROW, A CIRCLE
AND THE INITIALS "A.P."

66-C - COMPUTER PRINTOUT 20538 115
DIAGRAM WITH WHITE AND GREEN LINES AND THE
NUMBERS 1 AND 2

148 - PHOTOCOPY OF 20542 115
AIRTOUCH CELLULAR PHONE BILL, ID:7142228156

149 - POSTERBOARD 20546 115
ENTITLED "CALLS MADE BY ALLAN PARK, 6-12-94"

64-C - PHOTOGRAPH OF 20555 115
360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM WITH A BLUE ARROW

66-D - COMPUTER 20567 115
PRINTOUT OF DIAGRAM WITH A CIRCLE AND MARKINGS

66-E - PHOTOGRAPH OF 20591 115
OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM WITH AN ARROW, A CIRCLE
AND THE INITIALS "A.P."