DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(PAGES 18160 THROUGH 18178, VOLUME 103A, TRANSCRIBED AND SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL. ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. THE DEFENDANT IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK, MR. DARDEN, MISS LEWIS. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. COUNSEL, IS THERE ANYTHING WE NEED TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US?

MS. LEWIS: YES, THERE IS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MISS LEWIS.

MS. LEWIS: LAST NIGHT ON THE NEWS MR. BAILEY WAS SEEN REFERRING -- AND WAS HEARD REFERRING TO A FEMALE DEFENSE WITNESS WHO HE CLAIMED WAS UNKNOWN TO THE PROSECUTION AND WHO HE CLAIMED WOULD BE A SURPRISE TO THE PROSECUTION, AND IT SOUNDED CLEAR THAT THIS IS SOMEBODY THAT THE DEFENSE INTENDS TO CALL AT TRIAL. BY MR. BAILEY'S OWN WORDS THIS IS SOMEONE THEY HAD FAILED TO REVEAL IN RECIPROCAL DISCOVERY, SO THIS SEEMS AN APPROPRIATE TIME, SINCE A DECISION HAD NOT BEEN MADE BY LAST NIGHT, IT CERTAINLY WAS MADE BY THE TIME MR. BAILEY ANNOUNCED IT TO THE WORLD THROUGH THE PRESS THAT THEY HAVE AN ADDITIONAL WITNESS THAT THEY INTEND TO CALL, SO I WOULD ASK THE COURT TO ORDER THE DEFENSE TO DISCLOSE THE NAME AND ADDRESS AND THE STATEMENT OF THIS WITNESS, WHOEVER IT IS.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. BAILEY, DO YOU WISH TO RESPOND TO THAT?

MR. BAILEY: I THINK IT IS A MATTER FOR A PROFFER. THE WITNESS IS NOT -- THIS WITNESS DENIES THE INCIDENT. IF HE DENIES THE INCIDENT, THERE WON'T BE ANY NEED TO CALL ANY WITNESS, BUT THE PROFFER THAT I AM SUBMITTING TO THE COURT, PURSUANT TO OUR LAST VISIT TO THIS SUBJECT, CONTAINS THE INFORMATION AND I THINK WHEN YOUR HONOR LOOKS AT IT AND LOOKS AT ANOTHER DOCUMENT, YOU WILL BE QUITE SATISFIED THAT THE RULES HAVE BEEN COMPLIED WITH. I WILL BE GLAD TO SUBMIT THAT AND LET YOUR HONOR LOOK AT IT NOW AND WE CAN CONFER IN CAMERA AND I WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHAT I MEAN.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THE TIME IS NOW.

MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS --

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME.

MS. LEWIS: JUST ON THE DISCOVERY I WILL SPEAK FOR US ON THIS.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. LEWIS: WELL, THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG AGAIN. I DON'T THINK MR. BAILEY ACTION NOUNS TO THE WORLD LAST NIGHT, WHICH INCLUDES ANNOUNCING TO THE PROSECUTION, ABOUT THIS WITNESS AND THEN SEEK TO INSULATE THE WITNESS FROM DISCOVERY BY SAYING, WELL, WE WILL LET THE COURT HANDLE IT.

THE COURT: MISS LEWIS, WHAT WAS THE SPECIFIC COMMENT THAT WAS MADE? I DID NOT SEE THAT. I AM NOT AWARE OF ANYTHING THAT WAS SAID REGARDING THIS.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. LEWIS: UNFORTUNATELY, I DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE IT MYSELF, BUT I HAVE A SCRIPT OF IT, WHICH I'M TOLD IS ACCURATE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. LEWIS: ACTUALLY. "IT IS A WIRE REPORT QUOTING MR. BAILEY SAYING: HE, MR. BAILEY, CLAIMS THERE IS ANOTHER WOMAN FUHRMAN DID NOT KNOW WAS PRESENT WHEN HE WAS TOGETHER WITH BELL ON A SEPARATE OCCASION. BAILEY WOULD NOT ELABORATE ON THE MYSTERY WITNESS," AND THAT WAS ABOUT ALL IN THIS ONE. I THINK HE WAS -- I KNOW HE WAS MORE SPECIFIC IN TERMS OF THE GENDER BECAUSE HE DESCRIBED IT AS A FEMALE WITNESS DURING THE PRESS CONFERENCE THAT HE GAVE AFTER COURT YESTERDAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. BAILEY, ARE YOU WILLING TO MAKE A DISCLOSURE TO THE COURT, 1054.7 IN CAMERA? ALL RIGHT. THEN I WILL ASK -- I ANTICIPATE THAT WE WILL BE ON DIRECT EXAMINATION FOR THE ENTIRE MORNING SESSION WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND MISS CLARK, SO I DON'T THINK THAT WE WILL BE GETTING ANYWHERE CLOSE TO CROSS-EXAMINATION AT THIS POINT.

MS. LEWIS: WELL --

THE COURT: BUT I WILL TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT IT WHEN WE TAKE OUR FIRST BREAK.

MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, IF IT IS DISCOVERABLE NOW, WE WANT IT NOW. IT MAY AFFECT OUR DIRECT EXAMINATION OF DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. IT COULD WELL HAVE AN IMPACT, OR MAYBE NOT, BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO DO, AND SINCE IT APPEARS TO BE DISCOVERABLE NOW, IT APPEARS TO BE A SLENDER ENVELOPE, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT WOULD TAKE A CONSIDERABLE TIME TO LOOK AT IT, WE WOULD REQUEST THE COURT TO CONDUCT AN IN CAMERA HEARING NOW, PLEASE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO DECLINE THAT INVITATION. MR. BAILEY, IF YOU WILL FILE THAT WITH MRS. ROBERTSON AND WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT IT DURING THE FIRST BREAK.

MR. BAILEY: NOW, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SECONDLY, COUNSEL, I HAVE RECEIVED A FAX FROM PATRICIA BERMAN REGARDING THE RECURRING ICE CREAM ISSUE. I HAVE GIVEN COUNSEL A COPY OF BOTH OF THOSE. I HAVE ALSO RECEIVED ADDITIONAL TESTING RESULTS FROM CELLMARK AND FROM LAPD REGARDING FINGERPRINT AND OTHER ANALYSIS THAT WERE DONE, AND MISS CARSWELL, IS MAKING PHOTOCOPIES OF THOSE RIGHT NOW AND YOU WILL BE PROVIDED WITH THOSE AT THE FIRST BREAK. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE? ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: JUDGE, CAN WE APPROACH ON ONE OTHER THING WHILE THE JURY IS COMING OUT?

THE COURT: DO YOU WANT THE REPORTER?

MR. COCHRAN: NOT AT FIRST. YOU CAN DECIDE.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU PLEASE RESUME THE WITNESS STAND.

MARK FUHRMAN, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN.

THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: DETECTIVE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY RESUME WITH YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: WHEN WE LEFT OFF, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WERE WRITING NOTES, ON THE LIVING ROOM COUCH, INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, BEFORE YOU BEGAN -- YOU ENTERED THE HOUSE AT A POINT TO SIT DOWN AND WRITE YOUR NOTES, WAS THERE ANY POINT YOU WERE AT THE CRIME SCENE UP UNTIL THAT TIME THAT YOU WERE ALONE?

A: NO.

Q: WHO WERE YOU WITH FROM THE MOMENT YOU ARRIVED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY WITH -- IN THE COMPANY OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IN HIS CAR, WHO WERE YOU WITH?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

Q: OKAY. AFTER -- WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY WHO DID YOU MEET?

A: SERGEANT ROSSI AND OFFICER RISKE.

Q: OKAY. WHO WAS IT THAT TOOK YOU UP TO -- UP THROUGH THE SHRUBBERY UP THE FRONT WALKWAY TO LOOK AT THE CRIME SCENE?

A: OFFICER RISKE.

Q: WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WITH YOU AS WELL?

A: YES.

Q: AND AFTER THAT POINT YOU WENT -- I BELIEVE YOU INDICATED YOU WENT AROUND THROUGH THE BACK AND ENTERED THROUGH THE GARAGE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHEN YOU DID SO, WHO WAS WITH YOU?

A: OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

Q: AND AS YOU WALKED THROUGH THE HOUSE AND STEPPED DOWN ON THE LANDING TO LOOK AT THE CRIME SCENE, WHO WAS WITH YOU?

A: OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

Q: AND WHEN YOU STEPPED OUT THE FRONT DOOR AND WALKED DOWN THE WALKWAY FOLLOWING THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OUT TO THE ALLEY, WHO WAS WITH YOU?

A: OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

Q: AND WHEN YOU EXITED THE REAR GATE AND WENT OUT TO THE DRIVEWAY AND OBSERVED THE BLOOD DROP AND THE CHANGE, WHO WAS WITH YOU?

A: OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO RE-ENTER THE LOCATION, TO RE-ENTER THE CONDOMINIUM, WHERE DID OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS GO?

A: I BELIEVE THEY WALKED BACK TO DOROTHY.

Q: OKAY. AT THAT POINT HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN AT THE CRIME SCENE?

A: MAYBE FIFTEEN MINUTES AT THE MOST.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT WERE YOU WEARING AT THAT TIME?

A: A BLUE BLAZER, TAN SLACKS, WHITE SHIRT.

Q: OKAY. YOU THEN WENT INTO THE CONDOMINIUM; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: WHERE DID YOU GO TO?

A: THE COUCH DIRECTLY TO THE RIGHT OR THE SOUTH OF THE FRONT DOOR.

Q: WHEN YOU SAT ON THAT COUCH, WAS THE FRONT DOOR OPEN, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THERE ANYONE OUTSIDE THE LOCATION ON THE LANDING AT THAT TIME?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAT DOWN TO BEGIN WRITING YOUR NOTES, WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU WERE SEPARATED FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND OFFICER RISKE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT THAT POINT HAD THE GLOVE AND THE CAP UNDERNEATH THE BUSH ALREADY BEEN POINTED OUT TO YOU FROM THE FRONT GATE AREA AND THEN AGAIN FROM THE LANDING AREA OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR BY OFFICER RISKE?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, YOU SAT DOWN TO WRITE YOUR NOTES AND WE WERE GOING THROUGH THOSE NOTES YESTERDAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: WE HAD FINISHED PAGE 1 -- WE HADN'T QUITE FINISHED PAGE 1, ACTUALLY.

THE COURT: I THINK WE WERE AT ITEM 3.

MS. CLARK: ITEM 4? I'M SORRY.

THE COURT: I THINK WE FINISHED ITEM 3.

MS. CLARK: WE FINISHED ITEM 3. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: I THINK.

MS. CLARK: YOU ARE RIGHT.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THESE NOTES, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WERE THESE MEANT TO BE YOUR FINAL AND DEFINITIVE NOTE AS THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER AT THAT TIME FOR THIS CRIME SCENE?

A: NO. THIS WAS THE FIRST ROUND OF NOTES.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU SAY "THE FIRST ROUND OF NOTES," SIR, CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT?

A: MOST OF THESE NOTES WERE WHAT OFFICER RISKE WAS POINTING OUT TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND MYSELF, AND WHAT I OBSERVED.

Q: WHAT DID YOU INTEND TO DO -- WERE THESE NOTES ROUGH NOTES?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU INTEND TO DO WITH THESE NOTES LATER ON?

A: USED THEM TO GO BACK TO THESE AREAS AND USE THEM AS A GUIDE IN WHAT TO GO BACK TO AND PRIORITIZE THEM.

Q: OKAY. I THINK YOU INDICATED EARLIER THAT THE ITEM NUMBERS THAT YOU HAVE ON THIS LIST, 1, 2, 3, 4, ET CETERA, THAT EACH NUMBER WOULD BE REFERENCED LATER ON IN A MORE FULL DETAILED REPORT?

A: YES.

Q: AND HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT? WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

A: WELL, TAKING NOTES AT THE SCENE, IF IT WOULD HAVE GONE BEYOND THIS POINT, I WOULD HAVE, AS AN EXAMPLE, ITEM 3, I WOULD HAVE PUT AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE. I WOULD HAVE WROTE ANY NOTES I WANTED ABOUT ITEM 3. IF IT WAS THREE PAGES, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN PAGE 1, 2, 3, AND AT THE BOTTOM, AND THEN I WOULD KNOW THAT THAT WAS THAT OBSERVATION OR THAT POINT THAT OFFICER RISKE POINTED OUT AND I WOULD BE ABLE TO ORGANIZE IT SOMEWHAT LIKE THAT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. FOR THE RECORD, MISS CLARK, WE ARE REFERRING TO PAGE 1, ITEMS 3 AND 4 OF PEOPLE'S 104.

MS. CLARK: CORRECT.

Q: BUT YOUR OBSERVATIONS, SIR, CONCERNING WHAT YOU -- WELL, YOUR DESCRIPTION OF WHAT YOU WOULD DO WITH THESE ITEMS, DOES THAT PERTAIN TO ALL OF THE ITEMS ON THE NOTES THAT WE ARE GOING THROUGH NOW?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU BRIEFLY WENT UPSTAIRS AND SAW THE BEDROOMS YESTERDAY. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU SEE ROOMS THAT APPEARED TO BE CHILDREN'S ROOMS?

A: I DID, BUT I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY ANYTHING ABOUT THEM.

Q: DID YOU KNOW WHAT -- DID YOU ASK WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CHILDREN OR WHERE THEY WERE OR DID YOU KNOW ALREADY?

A: OFFICER RISKE INFORMED ME THAT THERE WERE TWO CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE AND THEY HAD BEEN TAKEN TO WEST L.A. STATION.

Q: SO BY THE TIME YOU GOT THERE YOU KNEW THEY WERE ALREADY TAKEN CARE OF?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID HE TELL YOU THAT AS SOON AS YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE?

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS THE INITIAL EXPLANATION OF WHAT HAD TRANSPIRED BEFORE WE WALKED IN THE SCENE, YES.

Q: NOW, WAS OFFICER RISKE THE ONLY ONE THAT POINTED THINGS OUT TO YOU, SIR, OR WERE THERE OTHER OFFICERS THAT POINTED THINGS OUT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: JUST OFFICER RISKE.

Q: SO YOU SAT DOWN AND YOU BEGAN TO WRITE THESE NOTES ON THE LIVING ROOM COUCH AND I THINK WE LEFT OFF AT 4. AND YOU WERE DISCUSSING WITH US, SIR, THE FACT THAT YOU SAW NO EVIDENCE OF RANSACKING?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND TELL US WHY.

A: INITIALLY I WAS CONCERNED THAT POSSIBLY THE HOUSE WAS PART OF THE CRIME SCENE AND I WAS LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE THAT WOULD GIVE ME ANY INDICATION OF THAT.

Q: AND DID YOU FIND ANY?

A: NO, NOT IN THE FIRST WALK THROUGH.

Q: NOW, YOU FOUND "THE STEREO WAS PLAYING AND THE LIGHTS WERE LOW, THE CANDLES WERE LIT IN THE LIVING ROOM AND IN THE UPSTAIRS BATHROOM" ACCORDING TO YOUR NOTES?

A: YES.

Q: DID THAT INDICATE TO YOU ANYTHING TO YOU IN TERMS OF INFORMATION USEFUL TO THE INVESTIGATION OF THESE MURDERS?

A: AT THAT POINT I WOULD CONCLUDE THAT SOMEONE WAS HOME AT THAT TIME AND SOMEONE WAS PREPARING POSSIBLY TO TAKE A BATH, SOMEONE WAS LISTENING TO MUSIC.

MS. CLARK: NEXT PAGE.

Q: THIS IS THE SECOND PAGE OF YOUR NOTES, SIR. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THESE NOTES?

A: YES. THE NUMBERS ARE CUT OFF. THERE, THERE.

Q: THERE WE GO.

A: GOOD.

Q: ITEM NO. 5 YOU INDICATE, "THERE IS A HANDWRITTEN NOTE ON THE UPSTAIRS COFFEE TABLE" WHICH YOU QUOTE AS "CARA WITH A PHONE NUMBER, CALIFORNIA PIZZA KITCHEN"?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU SEE THAT?

A: THERE IS AN UPSTAIRS -- I THINK IT WOULD BE DESCRIBED BEST AS A FAMILY ROOM AND I BELIEVE IT WAS ABOVE THE GARAGE. I THINK YOU STEPPED UP FROM THE KITCHEN AREA OR THAT HALL AREA, BUT IT WAS ON THE COFFEE TABLE.

Q: AND THE PIZZA MENU BY THE FEMALE VICTIM'S LEFT LEG. DO YOU RECALL -- CAN YOU TELL US -- DID YOU BEND DOWN AND ACTUALLY READ THAT IT WAS A PIZZA MENU OR WAS THAT AT FIRST GLANCE DESCRIPTION?

A: I THINK THAT WAS AT FIRST GLANCE THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THE --

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS PEOPLE'S 80.

THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 80.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: WE NEED TO CUT THE FEED FOR THIS PHOTO.

THE COURT: I HAVE.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 2, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 80, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS SINCE JUNE 13TH, BUT THAT LOOKS ABOUT THE SAME LOCATION. I CAN'T TELL WHAT THE WRITING IS, BUT THAT APPEARS TO BE WHAT I SAW AT HER FEET, YES.

Q: OKAY. DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE WHAT YOU WERE ATTEMPTING TO DESCRIBE IN ITEM 5 OF YOUR NOTES?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. ITEM 6, THAT WAS THE ICE CREAM THAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING?

A: YES.

Q: YOU INDICATE IN THIS THAT IT SAYS, "NOT YET MELTED WHEN OFFICER RISKE ENTERED THE RESIDENCE"?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WAS TOLD TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS IT THAT HE INDICATED TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO THE CONDITION OF THAT ICE CREAM THAT YOU OBSERVED?

A: THE BEST I CAN REMEMBER IT WAS JUST THAT IT APPEARED THAT IT HADN'T MELTED YET OR IT WAS IN THE PROCESS, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW HE WOULD HAVE CONCLUDED THAT.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAW THE ICE CREAM TWO HOURS LATER, YOU EARLIER INDICATED TO US THAT IT STILL LOOKED LUMPY TO YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT COLOR DID IT APPEAR TO BE?

A: TAN, LIGHT BROWN.

Q: DID THAT ICE CREAM HAVE ANY PARTICULAR EVIDENTIARY SIGNIFICANCE TO YOU?

A: ONLY IN THAT THE HOUSE WAS SO NEAT, IT SEEMED TO BE THE ONLY ITEM OF FOOD OR ANYTHING THAT LOOKED -- THAT I WOULD SAY LOOKED OUT OF PLACE, BEING AN INTRUDER INTO THE HOUSE, IN OTHER WORDS, NEVER BEING IN THE HOUSE BEFORE.

Q: YOU BEING THE INTRUDER THAT IS?

A: YES. YES, MA'AM.

Q: OKAY. ITEM 7, "CHILDREN, TWO, SLEEPING IN UPSTAIRS BEDROOM AWOKEN BY OFFICERS." WAS THAT INFORMATION GIVEN TO YOU BY ANOTHER OFFICER?

A: YES.

Q: BY?

A: OFFICER RISKE.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. ITEM NO. 8, WAS THAT SOMETHING YOU OBSERVED, SIR?

A: NO. OFFICER RISKE TOLD ME THAT.

Q: WERE YOU ABLE TO OBSERVE IT FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT, EITHER AT THE FRONT GATE OF THE WALKWAY WHEN YOU WERE WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, OR FROM THE LANDING OUTSIDE THE FRONT DOOR WHERE YOU OBSERVED THE CRIME SCENE IN THE COMPANY OF OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A: NO. I DID NOT OBSERVE THAT FROM THAT LOCATION.

Q: SO THAT WAS INFORMATION GIVEN TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE?

A: YES.

Q: ITEM NO. 9. THOSE WERE THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS THAT YOU DESCRIBED TO US EARLIER?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU PERSONALLY OBSERVED?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS IT ALSO POINTED OUT TO YOU BY OFFICER RISKE?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: ITEM NO. 10, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO IN THAT ITEM?

A: YES, A CANVASS IS THE TERM WE USE TO DESCRIBE OFFICERS GOING TO NEIGHBORS, LOCATIONS AROUND THE CRIME SCENE, TO SEE IF THEY HEARD OR SAW ANYTHING AT ANY TIME DURING THE EVENING THAT COULD HAVE LED UP TO THE TIME OF THE MURDERS.

Q: AND AS OF THE TIME YOU WERE WRITING THOSE NOTES DID YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION FROM ANY OF THE NEIGHBORS NEARBY ABOUT WHAT MAY HAVE TRANSPIRED THAT NIGHT?

A: NONE.

Q: SO YOU HAD NO IDEA THEN AT THE POINT -- AT THAT POINT WHETHER THERE WERE ANY EYEWITNESSES OR EAR WITNESSES, PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE HEARD THINGS OR SEEN THINGS, THAT MAY HAVE BEEN RELEVANT TO THE MURDERS?

A: I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANY, NO.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. ITEM NO. 11, "AKITA DOG FOUND RUNNING LOOSE BELONGS TO VICTIM FEMALE." CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO THERE AND WHO GAVE YOU THAT INFORMATION?

A: THAT WAS FROM OFFICER RISKE.

Q: AND -- OKAY. THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT HE INFORMED YOU OF?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE A DOG WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE SCENE, SIR?

A: I DID NOT, NO, MA'AM.

Q: AND ITEM NO. 12, "NEITHER VEHICLE, WHITE FERRARI, BLACK CHEROKEE IN GARAGE REAR PARKING WERE WARM TO TOUCH." WAS THAT YOUR PERSONAL OBSERVATION, SIR, THAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING THERE?

A: NO, IT WAS OFFICER RISKE.

Q: TELL US, IS THAT SOMETHING COMMONLY DONE, TO GO AND TOUCH THE HOODS OF THE VEHICLES AT A CRIME SCENE?

A: YOU WOULD WANT TO. IT COULD ESTABLISH SOME TYPE OF A TIME.

Q: A TIME FOR?

A: THE LAST TIME THE VEHICLE WAS USED.

Q: OKAY. AND WOULD THAT HELP -- WHAT KIND OF TIME FRAME WOULD THAT HELP YOU WITH? WHAT WOULD BE THE SIGNIFICANCE IF THE CAR HAD JUST BEEN DRIVEN?

A: THE LAST TIME THE VEHICLE WAS DRIVEN, IT COULD INDICATE HOW MANY HOURS THE VEHICLE HAD BEEN AT THE LOCATION AFTER IT WAS DRIVEN, OR A BALLPARK.

Q: UH-HUH. SO WOULD THAT BE AN INDICATION TO YOU, SIR, OF WHEN THE VICTIM WAS LAST ALIVE, ANOTHER INDICATION TO YOU?

A: IT COULD.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS THE THIRD PAGE OF YOUR NOTES, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: ITEM NO. 13, "AT THE REAR GATE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE." IS THAT NORTH? "N SLASH S"; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: NORTH SIDE.

Q: "TWO BLOOD SPOTS AT THE BOTTOM INSIDE OF THE GATE." IS THAT WHAT YOU DESCRIBED AS HAVING SEEN IN YOUR TESTIMONY EARLIER YESTERDAY?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAY, "THIS AREA MIGHT HAVE BEEN WHERE DOG WAS KEPT," WHEN YOU SAY "THIS AREA," WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

A: THE PATHWAY ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE, IT HAD GATES AT BOTH ENDS, AND SINCE THE DOG WAS LOOSE AND I HAD ALREADY BEEN TOLD THAT, I JUST MADE A NOTE THAT THIS COULD BE THE AREA THAT THE DOG WAS KEPT. IN OTHER WORDS, IF IT DIDN'T LIVE IN THE HOME.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU SAY THE NORTH -- THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE, YOU MEAN THAT WALKWAY THAT LEADS FROM THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE TO THE REAR ALLEY?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU WERE SPECULATING TO YOURSELF THAT MIGHT BE WHERE THE DOG WAS KEPT?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THEN IT SAYS, "SUSPECT RAN THROUGH THIS AREA. SUSPECT POSSIBLY BITTEN BY DOG," QUESTION MARK. WHEN YOU SAY "SUSPECT RAN THROUGH THIS AREA," THAT WAS BASED ON WHAT?

A: WELL, THERE WAS THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS --

Q: UH-HUH.

A: -- WESTBOUND AWAY FROM THE LANDING AND THE VICTIMS. THERE WAS BLOOD DROPS TO THE LEFT OF THOSE SHOEPRINTS. I PUT THAT IN MY NOTES TO MAKE MYSELF REMEMBER THAT A DOG WAS PROBABLY IN THAT AREA AND FOR MYSELF TO WONDER IF MAYBE THE DOG BIT THE SUSPECT.

Q: OKAY. SO THAT WAS JUST YOUR SPECULATION THEN, POSSIBLY BITTEN BY THE DOG?

A: YES, MA'AM. THAT IS WHY I PUT A QUESTION MARK THERE.

Q: OKAY. NO ONE HAD TOLD YOU THAT, IN OTHER WORDS?

A: NO.

Q: ITEM NO. 14, "THE REAR GATE, POSSIBLE BLOOD SMUDGE ON UPPER RAIL OF GATE."

A: YES.

Q: AND IS THAT WHAT YOU DESCRIBED TO US AS HAVING SEEN EARLIER IN YOUR TESTIMONY YESTERDAY?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAY, "THE UPPER RAIL OF THE GATE," CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT? DESCRIBE THE AREA YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

A: YES. THE GATE IS COMPRISED OF LARGE TWO-INCH TUBING THAT APPEARED TO BE BENT AND INTO NINETY DEGREES TO CREATE THE OUTSIDE -- OUTSIDE OF THE GATE AND THEN SOME TYPE OF SECURITY MESH AND RAIL IN THE MIDDLE, AND THAT LARGE TUBULAR PART OF THE GATE IS WHERE THE SMUDGE WAS ON TOP.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: ITEM NO. 15, YOU HAVE, "REAR GATE INSIDE, DEAD BOLT TURN KNOB TYPE," AND WHAT ARE YOU DESCRIBING THERE, SIR?

A: THE TYPE OF CONVENTIONAL KNOB ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE GATE IS A LOCKING MECHANISM AND ON THE INSIDE OF THE GATE WOULD BE A TURN KNOB. IN OTHER WORDS, THE KEY WOULD BE USED ON THE EXTERIOR AND A TURN KNOB. IF YOU ARE IN THE INSIDE, YOU WOULD NOT NEED A KEY, YOU WOULD JUST TURN A KNOB, SIMILAR TO A DEAD BOLT STYLE ON A HOUSE.

Q: OKAY. DID OFFICER RISKE TELL YOU IN WHAT CONDITION HE FOUND THAT GATE WHEN HE FIRST RESPONDED TO THE CRIME SCENE?

A: I DON'T RECALL IF HE TOLD US. I SAW THAT IT WAS OPEN.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU FIRST WALKED THROUGH THAT REAR GATE FOR THE FIRST TIME WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, WAS IT STANDING OPEN, SIR, OR WAS IT PROPPED OPEN?

A: IT WASN'T WIDE OPEN, BUT IT WAS OPEN MAYBE SEVERAL INCHES.

Q: OKAY.

A: TO A FOOT, I SUPPOSE.

Q: SO DID IT HAVE TO BE PUSHED IN ORDER FOR YOU TO EXIT? DID OFFICER RISKE PUSH IT OPEN WHEN YOU EXITED?

A: IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN PUSHED OPEN WITH A PEN OR A FLASHLIGHT. IT WASN'T PUSHED OPEN WITH THE BARE HAND.

Q: OKAY. AND THEN YOU SAID HERE, "POSSIBLE BLOOD SMUDGE AND VISIBLE FINGERPRINT." CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THERE? I BELIEVE YOU ADDRESSED THAT EARLIER IN YOUR TESTIMONY. CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT IT WAS THAT YOU SAW THAT CAUSED YOU TO WRITE THAT?

A: YES. ON THE INSIDE WHERE I DESCRIBED THE DEAD BOLT STYLE LOCK ON THE INSIDE OR THE EAST SIDE OF THE GATE, THE -- ON THE TURN -- TURN KNOB THERE LOOKED -- IT IS BRASS, BRASS-PLATED, IT LOOKED TO BE BLOOD SMUDGE ON THAT LEADING TO WHAT I SAW MIGHT BE A POSSIBLE FINGERPRINT OR A PARTIAL FINGERPRINT.

Q: OKAY. AND SO YOU MADE A NOTE OF THAT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. ITEM NO. 16, "BLOODY PAW PRINTS OF LARGE DOG LEADING FROM THE RESIDENCE SOUTHBOUND ON THE SIDEWALK APPROXIMATELY SIXTY FEET SOUTH OF THE RESIDENCE." CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING THERE?

A: YES. COMING OUT OF THE FRONT OF THE WALKWAY WHERE ALL THE BLOOD WAS -- WAS FLOWING DOWN TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK, THERE WAS CANINE PAW PRINTS LEADING SOUTHBOUND ON THE WALK TOWARDS DOROTHY AND I APPROXIMATED THAT THE PAW PRINTS WERE VISIBLE FOR SIXTY FEET.

Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS YOUR PERSONAL OBSERVATION, SIR?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: AND ITEM 17 YOU WROTE, "SKI MASK, ONE GLOVE BY FEET OF MALE VICTIM." AND AGAIN CAN YOU TELL US, WAS THAT YOUR PERSONAL OBSERVATION?

A: YES, IT WAS, BOTH DIRECTED BY OFFICER RISKE AND MY PERSONAL OBSERVATION.

Q: SO THAT WAS A COMBINATION OF OFFICER RISKE'S INFORMATION TO YOU AND YOUR OWN PERSONAL OBSERVATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE SKI MASK THAT YOU REFER TO, SIR, UMM --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. MY -- I'M MISSING JONATHAN.

THE COURT: THAT IS ALL RIGHT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.) MS. CLARK: THIS IS PEOPLE'S 54 SUB (2), YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU DESCRIBED IN YOUR NOTES, SIR, ITEM NO. 17, THE SKI MASK. BASED ON YOUR OBSERVATION AT THAT TIME, WAS THAT -- LET ME ASK YOU THIS: HAD YOU GONE UP TO AND HELD IT AND LOOKED AT IT WHEN YOU WROTE THAT NOTE, SIR?

A: NO, I DID NOT.

Q: WHAT KIND OF OBSERVATION DID YOU HAVE OF THE OBJECT YOU WERE DESCRIBING AT THE TIME YOU WROTE THAT NOTE, ITEM 17?

A: WELL, IT APPEARED TO BE WHAT I USUALLY DESCRIBE AS A SKI CAP OR A SKI MASK AND IT LOOKED DULL, CLOTH AND THAT IS WHAT I CONCLUDED IT COULD POSSIBLY BE, AND THE GLOVE WAS FAIRLY OBVIOUS, THAT IT APPEARED TO BE A LEATHER TYPE GLOVE.

Q: SO AT THE POINT THAT YOU WROTE THAT NOTE, YOU HAD NOT WALKED UP INTO THE CRIME SCENE AND STEPPED UP TO THE BUSH TO LOOK AT IT?

A: NO, I HADN'T.

Q: THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT WE SHOWED YOU YESTERDAY OF YOU POINTING TO THE ITEMS UNDERNEATH THAT BUSH, WHEN WAS THAT TAKEN, SIR?

A: I BELIEVE THAT WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND 7:00 OR 7:15 THAT MORNING.

Q: AT THAT POINT, SIR, HAD YOU ALREADY BEEN TO ROCKINGHAM AND COME BACK TO BUNDY?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: SO AT THE POINT THAT YOU WROTE THE SKI MASK, HOW CLOSE HAD YOU GOTTEN TO THAT ITEM?

A: NO CLOSER THAN THE LANDING WHERE I OBSERVED THE TWO VICTIMS FROM WHERE THE FIRST SHOEPRINT --

Q: THAT WAS THE CLOSEST OBSERVATION YOU HAD AT THAT POINT?

A: YES.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, YOU MADE REFERENCE TO A PHOTOGRAPH WHERE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS POINTING. DO YOU KNOW WHICH EXHIBIT THAT WAS? I'M JUST SUGGESTING TO CLEAR THAT UP IN THE RECORD LATER.

MS. CLARK: YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

THE CLERK: 55.

THE COURT: 55. CONSENSUS SEEMS TO BE PEOPLE'S 55.

MS. CLARK: YES. PEOPLE'S 55.

THE COURT: THE JURORS SAY 55.

MS. CLARK: THE JURORS SAID IT WAS 55? THANK YOU.

Q: OKAY. SO ITEM NO. 17 IS BASED ON YOUR OBSERVATION OF THESE TWO ITEMS THAT YOU GOT A LOOK AT FROM THE VANTAGE POINT OF THE GATE WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND FROM THE LANDING WITH OFFICER RISKE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A: YES, MA'AM.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU GOT AS FAR AS ITEM NO. 17 DOCUMENTING YOUR OBSERVATION OF A SKI MASK, ONE GLOVE BY THE FEET OF THE MALE VICTIM. HAD YOU COMPLETED YOUR NOTES AT THAT POINT? WERE YOU ALL DONE?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED TO INTERRUPT YOU?

A: WELL, BEFORE -- WHILE I WAS STILL WRITING MY NOTES, DETECTIVE ROBERTS ENTERED, HE HAD JUST ARRIVED ON SCENE AND HE CAME INTO THE -- INTO THE LIVING ROOM, HE WAS DIRECTED BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, AND HE SAID, "CAN YOU UPDATE ME OR BRING ME UP TO SPEED?" I DID THAT BRIEFLY. I TOLD HIM -- I INFORMED HIM WHAT I HAD SEEN IN THE HOUSE. I TOOK HIM ONTO THE LANDING VERY QUICKLY, POINTED OUT THERE WAS A GLOVE, A CAP, THERE WAS A MALE VICTIM, A FEMALE VICTIM, A MENU. I SHOWED HIM THE SHOEPRINTS. I WALKED HIM BACK THE PATH. I SHOWED HIM ON THE GATE THE BLOOD. AND THIS IS AT THIS TIME IS WHEN DETECTIVE ROBERTS AND I BOTH SAW THE SMUDGE AND THAT POSSIBLE VISIBLE FINGERPRINT.

Q: LET ME INTERRUPT ONE MINUTE. DETECTIVE ROBERTS, WHO IS THAT?

A: DETECTIVE ROBERTS IS A DETECTIVE ASSIGNED TO WEST L.A. HOMICIDE WHO I NORMALLY WORK WITH AS A PARTNER.

Q: OKAY. SO HE CAME INTO THE RESIDENCE. DO YOU KNOW HOW HE GOT INTO THE RESIDENCE?

A: YES. HE WAS DIRECTED WHERE TO GO THROUGH THE GARAGE.

Q: OKAY. AND HE CAME IN AND THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW HIM AT THAT SCENE WAS WHEN YOU WERE WRITING NOTES SITTING ON THE COUCH INSIDE THE RESIDENCE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AT THAT POINT, WHEN YOU SAW DETECTIVE ROBERTS, YOU HAD BEEN AT THE SCENE FOR HOW LONG?

A: I STILL SAY THAT WOULD BE FIFTEEN MINUTES WHEN I WAS WRITING MY NOTES. THE WALK THROUGH WITH HIM COULDN'T HAVE TAKEN MORE THAN THREE OR FOUR MINUTES.

Q: OKAY. AFTER YOU WALKED HIM THROUGH THE REAR GATE OUT TO THE DRIVEWAY AREA, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I WALKED HIM OUT THROUGH THE DRIVEWAY. I POINTED OUT THE BLOOD DROP, CHANGE. HE ALSO LOOKED IN THE ALLEY FOR BLOOD DROPS AS WE WALKED THAT WAY. HE COULD SEE NONE. AND HE CONTINUED BACK TO DOROTHY TO WALK OUT TO THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE AND STAND WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

Q: OKAY. SO DID YOU BOTH THEN WALK OUT THERE TO THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

A: NO. I RETURNED TO THE INTERIOR OF THE RESIDENCE TO FINISH WHAT I WAS PREVIOUSLY DOING, WRITING MY NOTES.

Q: OKAY. SO WHERE WAS IT THAT YOU PARTED COMPANY WITH DETECTIVE ROBERTS?

A: IN THE ALLEY.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT BACK INSIDE, HOW DID YOU ENTER THE RESIDENCE THE SECOND TIME?

A: THE SAME WAY. I PASSED THE FERRARI INTO THAT LOWER DOOR UP THE STAIRS.

Q: WHERE DID YOU GO TO?

A: I WENT TO THE SAME -- SAME COUCH. I SAT ON THE EDGE OF THE COUCH.

Q: AND YOU -- DID YOU -- WHAT DID YOU DO THERE?

A: I FINISHED THE NOTES THAT LED UP TO ITEM 17.

Q: OKAY. AND AT ITEM 17 HAD YOU COMPLETED YOUR NOTES?

A: NO.

Q: WERE YOU AGAIN INTERRUPTED?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ENTERED FROM THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE AND HE CAME IN AND INFORMED ME THAT ROBBERY/HOMICIDE WOULD BE TAKING OVER THE INVESTIGATION.

Q: OKAY. AND HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN SITTING ON THE COUCH WRITING WHEN YOU WERE INTERRUPTED THAT SECOND TIME BY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A: MAYBE ANOTHER FIVE MINUTES, MAYBE AS MUCH AS TEN.

Q: AND WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS INFORMED YOU THAT ROBBERY/HOMICIDE WAS GOING TO TAKE OVER THE CASE, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I TOLD RON OR DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, I SAID, "LET ME FINISH THESE NOTES AND THEN I WILL TURN THEM OVER TO YOU."

Q: AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?

A: HE SAYS, "OKAY, FINISH THE NOTES AND THEN GIVE THEM TO ME AND I WILL GIVE THEM TO ROBBERY/HOMICIDE."

Q: AND DID YOU THEN COMPLETE YOUR NOTES?

A: YES.

Q: SO ITEM 17, WAS THAT MEANT TO BE YOUR LAST ENTRY IN YOUR NOTES AT THAT TIME?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DIDN'T COMPLETE YOUR NOTES?

A: I DID NOT, NO.

Q: AND WHY NOT?

A: BECAUSE THE CASE WAS NO LONGER MINE.

Q: OKAY. WHAT POINT WERE YOU AT WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS INTERRUPTED YOU IN WRITING? HAD YOU FINISHED ITEM 17 YET OR HAD YOU -- WERE YOU IN THE MIDDLE?

A: WELL, I DON'T KNOW -- AT THE END OF ITEM 17 I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH SEVERAL OTHER DETAILS ON SOME OF THESE ITEMS AND STARTED SETTING UP WHO I NEEDED TO CONTACT AT THIS SCENE TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THIS CRIME SCENE.

Q: OKAY. BUT INSTEAD OF THAT, YOU JUST STOPPED AT THAT POINT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO THEN?

A: I WENT BACK OUT THROUGH THE GARAGE SOUTH ON THE ALLEY, DOWN DOROTHY TO BUNDY, AND REMAINED IN THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE OR THE STREET AT THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND WAITED FOR ROBBERY/HOMICIDE'S ARRIVAL.

Q: OKAY. SO DID DETECTIVE PHILLIPS COME IN AND INFORM YOU ROBBERY/HOMICIDE WAS GOING TO TAKE OVER AND THEN EXIT AGAIN?

A: YES. I THINK HE MADE AN INDICATION THAT HE HAD TALKED TO CHIEF FRANKLE AND HE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE BEST IF ROBBERY/HOMICIDE HANDLED THE CASE.

Q: OKAY. WHEN HE INFORMED YOU OF THAT, SIR, HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN AT THE CRIME SCENE?

A: ABOUT A HALF HOUR.

Q: DID HE TURN AROUND AND LEAVE THEN AND YOU SAT AND FINISHED YOUR NOTES AT THAT POINT?

A: YES.

Q: FOR HOW LONG BEFORE YOU EXITED THE RESIDENCE?

A: OH, I DON'T THINK I -- I PROBABLY HAD JUST TWO OR THREE ITEMS LEFT THAT WAS CURRENTLY ON MY MIND THAT I NEEDED TO PUT DOWN THAT I THOUGHT WERE IMPORTANT.

Q: OKAY. SO HOW LONG IN TERMS OF TIME WAS THAT?

A: OH, A MINUTE, TWO MINUTES AT THE MOST.

Q: SO YOU REMAINED A MINUTE OR TWO MINUTES AFTER DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ADVISED YOU RHD WAS TAKING OVER THE CASE?

A: RIGHT. I JUST PUT DOWN THE THOUGHTS THAT I HAD WHEN HE WALKED IN AND I STOPPED.

Q: AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I JUST WENT OUT AND WAITED FOR ROBBERY/HOMICIDE ON THE STREET.

Q: WHEN YOU SAY YOU WAITED ON THE STREET, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHERE ON THE STREET YOU WERE WAITING?

A: IT WAS THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, PROBABLY JUST INSIDE THAT YELLOW TAPE OR JUST OUTSIDE, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH IT WAS.

Q: WHO WERE YOU WITH AT THAT TIME?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, THE COMMANDING OFFICER OF WEST L.A. DETECTIVES. I BELIEVE A PHOTOGRAPHER HAD ARRIVED, I'M NOT POSITIVE ON THAT, AND THEN THERE IS POLICEMEN, A SUPERVISOR, UNIFORMED PERSONNEL.

Q: QUITE A FEW OFFICERS AROUND BY THAT TIME, WERE THERE?

A: YES. I BELIEVE DETECTIVE ROBERTS WAS STILL THERE AND DETECTIVE NOLAN WAS STILL THERE.

Q: AND WERE THEY ALL STANDING WITH YOU OUTSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID DO YOU WHEN YOU CAME BACK OUTSIDE AND WENT TO THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY?

A: NOTHING.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, WERE YOU STILL HOLDING YOUR NOTES WHEN YOU CAME BECOME OUTSIDE?

A: I GAVE THEM TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IMMEDIATELY.

Q: OKAY. OUTSIDE AT THE INTERSECTION THERE?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU EVER GO BACK TO YOUR CAR?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: THE CAR THAT YOU DROVE IN WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN WAS THAT?

A: PROBABLY SOME TIME SHORTLY THEREAFTER AFTER COMING OUT OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q: AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

A: PUT MY JACKET IN THE CAR.

Q: SO YOU TOOK YOUR JACKET OFF AT THAT POINT?

A: YES.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH THAT I WOULD LIKE TO MARK PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, 105.

THE COURT: 105.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

(PEO'S 105 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: FIRST GO BACK TO THE NOTES.

Q: ON PAGE 3 OF YOUR NOTES WE WERE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT YOUR OBSERVATION OF A POSSIBLE BLOOD SMUDGE ON THE UPPER RAIL OF THE GATE, ITEM NO. 14. I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU NOW PEOPLE'S 105.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 2, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PERSON IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHO IS THAT?

A: DENNIS FUNG, A CRIMINALIST.

Q: HE IS POINTING TO AN AREA ON THE GATE THERE. CAN YOU TELL US, FIRST OF ALL, IS THAT THE REAR GATE AT THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: OKAY. AND THE AREA HE IS POINTING TO, SIR, IS THAT -- DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE AREA HE IS POINTING TO?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT AREA IS THAT?

A: THAT IS THE AREA I REMEMBER THAT THE SMUDGE WAS -- APPEARED TO BE A BLOOD SMUDGE.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS PEOPLE'S 53, I BELIEVE, D.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: IT IS 53-A.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 53 --

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT LOCATION, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND WHAT IS THAT?

A: THAT IS THE NORTH WALKWAY LEADING TOWARDS -- TOWARD THE ALLEY THAT WOULD BE GOING DUE WEST TOWARDS THAT REAR GATE.

Q: OKAY. SO IS THAT THE REAR GATE?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: OKAY. AND THE POSITION THAT THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS TAKEN FROM, IS THAT INSIDE THE REAR GATE FACING THE ALLEY OR IS IT FACING EASTBOUND TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

A: IT IS FACING THE ALLEY FROM THE INSIDE.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S 53-B.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO WHAT APPEARS TO BE MARKED AS 115 AND 116 ITEMS -- ITEM NUMBERS. CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND WHAT IS IT?

A: THOSE ARE THE BLOOD DROPS THAT I SAW AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RAIL.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND ARE THOSE THE BLOOD DROPS THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED IN YOUR NOTES IN ITEM NO. 13, SIR?

A: YES, IT IS.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S 106. I AM SHOWING IT TO COUNSEL.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(PEO'S 106 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 2, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WE HAVE A CLOSER-UP SHOT HERE, SIR. DO YOU SEE WHAT IS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 106? DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: TELL US HOW?

A: THAT APPEARS TO BE THE BLOOD SMUDGE THAT I SAW ON THE UPPER PORTION OF THAT GATE FROM THE INSIDE.

Q: AND IS THAT THE -- THE APPEARANCE OF IT AS YOU RECALL?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, WHAT KIND -- WERE YOU USING ANY KIND OF FLASHLIGHT TO MAKE THE OBSERVATIONS THAT YOU DOCUMENTED IN YOUR NOTES?

A: I USED THAT SMALL FLASHLIGHT THAT I KEPT ON MY BELT, YES.

Q: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU WERE STANDING OUT IN THE STREET, I THINK YOU INDICATED, THE INTERSECTION OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, WAITING FOR ROBBERY/HOMICIDE TO ARRIVE?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THERE WERE -- AND WHO DID YOU SAY WAS WITH YOU, SIR?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, I BELIEVE DETECTIVE ROBERTS WAS THERE, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG, DETECTIVE NOLAN WAS THERE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY WHEN HE LEFT, LIEUTENANT SPANGLER. THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY THAT ARRIVED FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE, OTHER THAN THE DETECTIVES, BUT I'M NOT SURE. I REMEMBER SEEING LIEUTENANT -- I BELIEVE HE IS LIEUTENANT ROGERS THERE AT SOME TIME, BUT I'M NOT SURE IT WAS THAT EARLY.

Q: AT THAT POINT, SIR, DID YOU HAVE -- WERE THERE ANY POLICE OFFICERS GUARDING THE PERIMETER, THAT IS, GUARDING THE CRIME SCENE TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM WALKING IN?

A: YES, THE CRIME SCENE WAS WHAT WE WOULD CALL SEALED OFF.

Q: WAS THERE ANYONE INSIDE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE AT THAT POINT?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU RECALL HOW MANY BLACK AND WHITE UNITS WERE THERE?

A: I WAS TOLD THERE WAS A BLACK AND WHITE UNIT THE STREET TO -- THE FIRST EAST-WEST STREET TO THE NORTH OF DOROTHY AT THE ALLEY, AND I BELIEVE ONE AT THE INTERSECTION OF BUNDY AND THAT STREET. I KNOW THERE WAS A SUPERVISOR AND A UNIT AT DOROTHY AND BUNDY. I SAW A BLACK AND WHITE DIRECTLY TO THE REAR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY IN THE ALLEY, AND THAT IS ALL I CAN RECALL.

Q: HOW MANY COMMANDING OFFICERS WERE PRESENT AT THAT TIME?

A: LIEUTENANT SPANGLER WAS THE ONLY COMMANDING OFFICER.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AT SOME POINT, SIR, DID YOU MAKE CONTACT WITH ANY DETECTIVE FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THAT CONTACT WAS MADE?

A: STANDING IN THE SAME LOCATION ON THE STREET.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU GO BACK INTO THE CRIME SCENE, THAT IS, UP TO THAT GATE WHERE YOU HAD GONE EARLIER WITH OFFICER RISKE OR INTO THE HOUSE OR UP ONTO THE LANDING AGAIN?

A: I NEVER RETURNED TO THAT CRIME SCENE.

Q: AND SO YOU WAITED OUTSIDE UNTIL ROBBERY/HOMICIDE CAME?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAW DETECTIVE VANNATTER, THAT WAS WHERE?

A: ON THE STREET, THE SAME LOCATION.

Q: HAD YOU EVER MET HIM BEFORE?

A: NO, I HADN'T.

Q: WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU MET?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT?

A: I WAS INTRODUCED TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER, AS WAS RON PHILLIPS. RON PHILLIPS BRIEFED HIM ON WHAT HAD BEEN SEEN AND DONE AT THAT POINT AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER -- EXCUSE ME -- DETECTIVE PHILLIPS LED DETECTIVE VANNATTER THROUGH A CRIME SCENE WALK THROUGH.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU GO WITH THEM?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: YOU REMAINED OUTSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU EVER GO BACK INTO THE CRIME SCENE BEFORE GOING TO ROCKINGHAM LATER THAT MORNING?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: SO AFTER THE POINT THAT YOU LEFT THE RESIDENCE AFTER COMPLETING YOUR NOTES, YOU NEVER WENT BACK IN AGAIN UNTIL LATER IN THE MORNING AFTER HAVING GONE TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES, YOU ARE CORRECT. I DID RETURN AT ABOUT 7:00, 7:15, YES.

Q: SO YOU REMAINED OUT IN THE INTERSECTION AND DID YOU MEET ANYONE ELSE FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE AT THAT POINT?

A: YES, DETECTIVE TOM LANGE.

Q: OKAY. AND WERE YOU STILL STANDING OUTSIDE AT THE INTERSECTION WHEN HE ARRIVED?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: WHERE WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS OR DETECTIVE VANNATTER?

A: I BELIEVE THEY HAD RETURNED. DETECTIVE LANGE ARRIVED FIFTEEN, TWENTY MINUTES AFTER THEM, MAYBE A LITTLE LONGER. THEY WERE BACK OUT ON THE -- IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT HAPPENED WHEN DETECTIVE LANGE ARRIVED?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS LED HIM THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE WALK THROUGH.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU GO WITH THEM?

A: NO.

Q: WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: I REMAINED ON THE STREET.

Q: OKAY. SO THEN THE CRIME SCENE WAS TOURED BY OFFICERS BEFORE YOU ARRIVED, SIR; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THEN AGAIN BY OFFICERS AFTER YOU HAD BEEN THERE?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: NOW, ONCE RHD -- ROBBERY/HOMICIDE DIVISION HAD COME IN TO TAKE OVER THE CASE, WHAT WERE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES?

A: MY RESPONSIBILITIES AT THAT POINT WAS TO FOLLOW DETECTIVE PHILLIPS' ORDERS. HE SAID WE WERE GOING TO REMAIN AT THE SCENE AND IF WE COULD BE OF ASSISTANCE, AND IF NOT, WE WOULD BE RELIEVED.

Q: NOW, AT SOME POINT DID YOU LEAVE THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES, WE DID.

Q: WAS THIS AFTER DETECTIVE LANGE HAD BEEN GIVEN A WALK-THROUGH BY WAS IT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A: YES.

Q: WAS IT AFTER THAT POINT?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LED TO YOUR DEPARTURE FROM BUNDY?

A: I WAS STANDING IN THE -- IN THE GROUP OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, VANNATTER AND LANGE. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS ON THE PHONE, A CELLULAR PHONE.

Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED?

A: WHILE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS ON THE PHONE, IT SEEMS HE INTERRUPTED HIS CONVERSATION AND HE LOOKED TO ME AND HE SAID, "CAN YOU TAKE US UP TO THE SIMPSON OR THE ROCKINGHAM HOUSE?" AND I RESPONDED, "I WENT THERE ON A RADIO CALL A LONG TIME AGO. I THINK SO."

Q: AND THEN WHAT?

A: WELL, I WASN'T REAL SURE OF THE NUMBERS OR WHERE ROCKINGHAM EXACTLY WAS OFF OF SUNSET. I KNEW IT WAS OFF OF SUNSET. SO I WALKED ALL THE WAY BACK AROUND TO THE ALLEY WHERE OFFICER RISKE WAS.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO THERE?

A: I ASKED OFFICER RISKE, I SAID, "DO YOU KNOW THE NUMBER FOR THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION?"

Q: DID HE RESPOND TO YOU?

A: HE SAID, "YES," AND I BELIEVE HE CHECKED IT SOMEWAY WITH HIS PARTNER AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY USED, IF THEY HAD ALREADY THE NUMBERS OR THEY HAD RUN SOMETHING ON THE COMPUTER IN THE CAR. HE SAID, "360 NORTH." THEN I ASKED OFFICER RISKE WHAT -- "I KNOW IT IS OFF SUNSET. WHAT IS THE LAST MAJOR STREET BEFORE YOU GET THERE?" AND HE RESPONDED "CLIFFWOOD, BUT LOOK REAL QUICK BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO MISS IT IF YOU GO AROUND THE CORNER TOO QUICK."

Q: OKAY. NOW, YOU HAD BEEN AT THE RESIDENCE OF MR. SIMPSON BACK IN 1985, AS YOU DESCRIBED TO US YESTERDAY. YOU RECALL THAT?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU -- BUT YOU DIDN'T REMEMBER WHERE HE LIVED ON THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH?

A: WELL, ROCKINGHAM STUCK IN MY MIND, BUT THAT END OF THE DIVISION IS PRETTY LARGE AND PRETTY CONFUSING AND I DIDN'T GO UP THERE IN THAT AREA OF THE DIVISION MUCH AT ALL IN PATROL OR DETECTIVES.

Q: DID YOU TELL ANYONE -- ANY OF THE DETECTIVES THAT YOU SAW THAT -- THAT NIGHT -- WELL, ACTUALLY THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH, THAT YOU HAD RESPONDED TO THE HOUSE OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM BACK IN 1985 FOR A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CALL?

A: I BELIEVE THE WAY I DESCRIBED IT TO PHILLIPS WHEN HE ASKED ME WAS, "I WENT UP THERE A LONG TIME ON A 415 FAMILY DISPUTE OR A FAMILY DISPUTE" AND I TOLD HIM, "I THINK I CAN FIND IT."

Q: DO YOU RECALL GIVING ANY DETAILS ABOUT THAT ENCOUNTER IN 1985 OR DESCRIBING WHAT YOU HAD SEEN TO ANYONE?

A: NO, I DON'T RECALL ANYTHING AT THAT TIME.

Q: AT THAT TIME, IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH, SIR, WHAT WAS THE SIGNIFICANCE TO YOU OF THE INCIDENT IN 1985 THAT YOU HAD BEEN CALLED OUT ON WHEN YOU WERE CALLED TO RESPOND TO MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE IN 1985?

A: THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT AT THAT POINT?

Q: RIGHT, RIGHT.

A: ONLY THAT I KNEW PROBABLY HOW TO GET TO THE HOUSE.

Q: UH-HUH. OKAY.

A: OTHER THAN THAT I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHY WE WERE GOING THERE.

Q: YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHY YOU WERE GOING TO ROCKINGHAM THAT NIGHT?

A: WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW WE WERE AT THAT POINT. I WENT BACK TO ASK OFFICER RISKE SO I WAS SURE THAT I GAVE PROPER DIRECTIONS.

Q: SO DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE GOING TO ROCKINGHAM WHEN YOU GOT THOSE DIRECTIONS?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT DID YOU THINK THAT YOU WERE GETTING THEM FOR?

A: FOR DETECTIVE LANGE AND VANNATTER.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE INFORMATION THAT YOU GOT FROM OFFICER RISKE?

A: I CAME BACK TO DOROTHY AND BUNDY, AND AS I APPROACHED DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, DETECTIVES LANGE AND VANNATTER WERE GETTING INTO THEIR VEHICLE OR THEY WERE IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO, AND I BELIEVE DETECTIVE LANGE WAS THE ONE THAT SAID, "RON, MARK, SHOW US THE WAY OR LEAD US UP THERE," OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, AND I GOT INTO THE VEHICLE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. NOT THE SAME VEHICLE, BUT OUR VEHICLE. HE WAS DRIVING AND I WAS PASSENGER.

Q: AND SO WHY WAS IT -- WAS IT YOUR IDEA TO GO TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU KNOW AT WHOSE REQUEST YOU WERE GOING TO DO THAT, GO TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: WELL, I LATER -- WHEN I GOT INTO THE VEHICLE WITH PHILLIPS, I ASKED WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO AND HE SAID, WELL, HE TALKED TO COMMANDER BUSHEY AND HE WANTED AN IN-PERSON NOTIFICATION.

Q: BUT AT THE TIME YOU LEFT YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT?

A: NO.

Q: WHEN DID YOU LEARN THAT?

A: WHILE WE WERE ENROUTE.

Q: SO THEN ALL FOUR OF YOU PROCEEDED TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU JUST SAID -- I THINK YOU SAID YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WERE IN ONE CAR AND WHO WAS IN THE OTHER CAR?

A: DETECTIVES LANGE AND VANNATTER.

Q: WAS THERE SOMEONE LEFT IN CHARGE OF THE SCENE?

A: OH, YES. THERE WAS A UNIFORMED SUPERVISOR AND A DETECTIVE SUPERVISOR AT THE SCENE.

Q: AND WHO WAS THAT?

A: LIEUTENANT SPANGLER WAS THE DETECTIVE C.O. AND I BELIEVE -- I BELIEVE SERGEANT COON WAS STILL AT THE SCENE. I CAN'T BE SURE ON THAT, BUT I KNOW THERE WAS A SERGEANT AT THE SCENE AT BUNDY AND DOROTHY.

Q: AND WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER STILL THERE?

A: YES, HE WAS.

Q: NOW, HOW LONG DID YOU PLAN TO BE GONE AT THAT POINT?

A: I DIDN'T THINK WE WOULD BE GONE THAT LONG. I THINK I UNDERSTOOD WHY WE WERE GOING THERE AFTER I WAS TOLD ABOUT THE NOTIFICATION, WHICH SHOULDN'T TAKE MUCH TIME AT ALL.

Q: HOW LONG?

A: WELL, FOR DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND LANGE IT WOULD PROBABLY BE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SEVERAL MINUTES.

Q: AND WHAT WERE YOUR -- WHAT WAS YOUR ROLE GOING TO BE, YOURS AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, AT ROCKINGHAM?

A: WELL, IT WASN'T VERBALIZED, BUT I THINK I REALIZED THAT WE WERE PROBABLY GOING TO ASSIST WITH ANY KIND OF TRANSPORTATION OF MR. SIMPSON. IF HE WAS REALLY DISTRAUGHT AND HE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE DRIVING, I'M SURE WE WOULD HAVE GIVEN HIM A RIDE TO THE STATION TO REUNITE HIM WITH HIS CHILDREN OR MAKE SOME ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE CHILDREN. WE WERE GOING TO ASSIST ROBBERY/HOMICIDE AND THEY HAD TO RETURN TO THE SCENE.

Q: WHAT TIME DID YOU LEAVE BUNDY, IF YOU RECALL?

A: 5:00 A.M. IN THE MORNING.

Q: OKAY. NOW, DID YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS LOG OUT AT THAT POINT WHEN YOU LEFT, CHECK IN WITH THE OFFICER WHO HAD THE LOG?

A: I DON'T RECALL, BECAUSE WHEN I CAME BACK FROM TALKING TO OFFICER RISKE IT WAS ALMOST IMMEDIATE, "GET IN THE CAR, LET'S GO." IF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS DID, HE LOGGED US BOTH OUT, BECAUSE I PERSONALLY DIDN'T MAKE CONTACT AT THAT TIME THAT I REMEMBER.

Q: OKAY. SO AT APPROXIMATELY FIVE O'CLOCK YOU ALL DROVE OVER TO 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM. AND HOW LONG DID -- IS THAT RIGHT?

A: I BELIEVE IT IS 360.

Q: 360?

A: 360, YES.

Q: THANK YOU. HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET THERE?

A: FIVE, TEN MINUTES.

Q: CAN YOU RECALL WHERE YOU PARKED WHEN YOU GOT TO THE LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU DRIVE UP ROCKINGHAM FROM SUNSET, DRIVE NORTH ON ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES, WE DID.

Q: AND AS YOU DID SO, WERE YOU LOOKING FOR THE ADDRESS OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES. WELL, IT IS -- IT IS PRETTY EASY OFF SUNSET. YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING NORTH OF SUNSET IS 100 AND GOES UP, SO IT IS GOING TO BE ABOUT THREE OF THE BLOCKS UP IN THAT AREA.

Q: UH-HUH. OKAY. SO DID YOU HAVE SOME IDEA OF WHERE TO LOOK WHEN YOU WERE DRIVING UP THERE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS YOU DROVE UP ROCKINGHAM, DID ANYTHING ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION?

A: I NOTICED A WHITE VEHICLE PARKED BY THE DRIVEWAY ON -- ON ROCKINGHAM.

Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU KNOW AT THE TIME YOU SAW THE WHITE VEHICLE THAT THAT WAS PARKED IN FRONT OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

A: WELL, I THINK -- I THINK THE RESIDENCE LOOKED SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR. I REMEMBERED FROM '85 IT WAS A CORNER RESIDENCE, VERY NICE, SPACIOUS FRONT YARD WITH A WALL, I REMEMBERED THAT, WITH BRICK.

Q: UH-HUH.

A: AND WHEN I PASSED IT, I THINK I CONCLUDED THAT THIS IS -- THIS IS THE ADDRESS.

Q: AT THE TIME THAT YOU FIRST SAW THAT WHITE VEHICLE, WAS THERE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT IT THAT DREW YOUR ATTENTION OR WAS IT JUST THAT THERE WAS A WHITE CAR PARKED THERE?

A: NO. I WAS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE AND WE PASSED THE VEHICLE AND IT WAS A WHITE FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE VEHICLE. I JUST -- I DIDN'T MAKE A -- MUCH OF A NOTE OF IT; I JUST NOTICED IT.

Q: OKAY. NOW, WHERE DID YOU PARK? YOU DIDN'T PARK, ACTUALLY. WHERE DID RON PARK?

A: HE TURNED RIGHT OR EASTBOUND ON ASHFORD AND PARKED JUST WEST OF THE ASHFORD GATE.

Q: WERE YOU IN THE LEAD, YOUR CAR?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU KNOW ON WHAT SIDE OF THE ASHFORD GATE THAT YOU PARKED?

A: I PARKED ON THE WEST SIDE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, SIR?

A: THE WEST SIDE.

Q: THE WEST SIDE?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 2, PLEASE. PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 63.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE LOCATION SHOWN HERE, SIR?

A: I BELIEVE IN THE UPPER LEFT CORNER THAT IS 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM, AND I BELIEVE I WOULD BE LOOKING AT THIS PHOTO FROM ROCKINGHAM LOOKING IN A SOUTHERLY DIRECTION TO ASHFORD.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE ASHFORD GATE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, ARE YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE, IF YOU CAN TELL US ON THIS PHOTOGRAPH, DID YOU PARK?

A: THERE IS A BRIGHT WHITE DOT, IT APPEARS, ALMOST DEAD CENTER IN THE PHOTOGRAPH. THAT WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY CURB SIDE AT THAT AREA.

Q: WOULD THAT BE JUST A LITTLE TO THE RIGHT OF THE PERSON DEPICTED IN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT APPEARS TO BE WEARING SOMETHING RED?

A: YES.

Q: AND IF YOU KNOW, SIR, WHERE DID DETECTIVES VANNATTER AND LANGE PARK?

A: I BELIEVE THEY PULLED UP DIRECTLY TO THE REAR OF OUR VEHICLE.

Q: ON ASHFORD?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: ALL FOUR OF US EXITED THE VEHICLE AND STOOD AROUND THE ASHFORD GATE, AND I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS VANNATTER OR LANGE STARTED RINGING THE BUZZER AT THE GATE.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 64.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU HAPPEN TO OBSERVE ANY VEHICLES WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION OF 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM AND PARKED -- YOU PARKED ON ASHFORD. DID YOU OBSERVE ANY VEHICLES NEARBY?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: THERE WAS, I BELIEVE IT WAS A 280Z OR A ZX.

Q: WHAT COLOR?

A: DARK. IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A BROWN OR IT COULD HAVE EVEN BEEN DARK BLUE.

Q: I'M GOING TO A DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PHOTOGRAPH NOW ON THE SCREEN, SIR, AND AS YOU FACE THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE REAR HALF OF THE VEHICLE THAT YOU SAW ON ASHFORD PARKED NEAR THE ASHFORD GATE WHEN YOU ARRIVED THAT NIGHT?

A: THAT LOOKS LIKE THE SAME LOCATION, BUT I CAN'T REALLY -- I CAN'T REALLY TELL WHAT THE VEHICLE IS FROM THAT -- THAT PHOTO, BUT THAT IS WHERE IT WAS.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU GOT OUT OF THE CAR. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: VANNATTER AND LANGE, AND QUITE POSSIBLY DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND EVEN MYSELF, ATTEMPTED TO RING THE BUZZER.

Q: OKAY. SO WERE ALL FOUR OF YOU STANDING TOGETHER AS THE BUZZER WAS BEING RUNG?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN THE BUZZER WAS RUNG, WHEN IT WAS PRESSED, COULD YOU HEAR IT?

A: I BELIEVE I COULD HEAR A PHONE RINGING INSIDE OR A RING.

Q: NOISE?

A: YES.

Q: EACH TIME THE BUZZER WAS PUSHED?

A: I BELIEVE SO, YES.

Q: DID ANYONE ANSWER?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU HAPPEN TO OBSERVE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY SECURITY SIGNS NEARBY?

A: I DID NOT, NO.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WELL, THIS CONTINUED FOR SEVERAL MINUTES, TEN, FIFTEEN MINUTES. I BELIEVE AT LEAST THREE OF THE FOUR OF US WERE RINGING THE BELL.

Q: TAKING TURNS?

A: SOMEWHAT, YES.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU WERE ALL STANDING THERE TOGETHER AT THAT -- AT THE CALL BOX RINGING THE BELL?

A: YES, IN THAT GENERAL AREA.

Q: OKAY. AND AFTER THE TEN OR FIFTEEN MINUTES OF RINGING WITHOUT RECEIVING AN ANSWER, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I BELIEVE -- I BELIEVE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS ON HIS CELLULAR PHONE AND VANNATTER AND LANGE REMAINED AT THE GATE AND I -- I WALKED WESTBOUND DOWN ASHFORD TOWARDS THE INTERSECTION OF ROCKINGHAM AND ASHFORD.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU WEARING WHEN YOU GOT OUT OF YOUR CAR AFTER HAVING PARKED ON ASHFORD?

A: WHITE SHIRT, TIE AND TAN SLACKS.

Q: WERE YOU WEARING YOUR JACKET?

A: NO.

Q: WHERE WAS IT?

A: IN THE VEHICLE.

Q: YOU LEFT IT THERE?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. I'M SORRY I INTERRUPTED YOU, SIR. AFTER THAT TEN OR FIFTEEN MINUTES, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I WAS JUST STANDING AT THE AREA OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM.

Q: ON THAT CORNER THERE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN WHAT?

A: I WAS JUST -- JUST LOOKING. I NOTICED SOME LIGHTS ON IN THE RESIDENCE THAT WERE ON THE ENTIRE TIME WE WERE THERE, AND I STARTED WALKING SOUTHBOUND ON ROCKINGHAM.

Q: WHEN YOU WERE AT THE ASHFORD GATE WITH THE THREE OTHER DETECTIVES AND RINGING THAT -- PUSHING THE BUZZER, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY CARS IN THE DRIVEWAY INSIDE THE GATES?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE IN THAT REGARD?

A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS A BLACK SAAB CONVERTIBLE, AND SOME -- SOME TYPE OF A LUXURY VEHICLE, A BLACK LUXURY VEHICLE.

Q: A BIG CAR?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU SAID YOU SAW LIGHTS INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: WHERE INSIDE THE HOUSE DID YOU SEE THEM?

A: THE MOST WESTERLY UPSTAIRS ROOM AND THE LOWER RIGHT BOTTOM FLOOR ROOM THAT I LATER FOUND THAT WAS A SITTING T.V. ROOM OFF THE KITCHEN.

Q: SO WHEN YOU WENT TO THE CORNER OF ROCKINGHAM AND ASHFORD, SIR, WERE YOU ALONE OR WERE YOU WITH OTHER DETECTIVES?

A: I WAS BY MYSELF.

Q: WHERE WERE THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS STANDING SOMEWHAT IN THE STREET USING HIS CELLULAR PHONE, AND LANGE AND VANNATTER WERE SOMEWHERE AROUND THE FRONT GATE.

Q: THE FRONT GATE?

A: ON ASHFORD.

Q: ON ASHFORD?

A: ON ASHFORD.

Q: COULD YOU SEE THEM?

A: FOR A WHILE I COULD, BUT AFTER I WENT AROUND THE CORNER FROM ROCKINGHAM, I DON'T RECALL SEEING THEM. THERE IS A BIG FENCE.

Q: AND SO YOU WENT -- AT SOME POINT YOU WALKED DOWN ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

A: I WAS JUST STROLLING ALONG LOOKING AT THE HOUSE, MAYBE I COULD SEE SOME MOVEMENT INSIDE OR NO REALLY APPARENT REASON. I WAS JUST WALKING. THERE SEEMED TO BE EVERYTHING UNDER CONTROL AT THE GATE.

Q: EVERYBODY ELSE WAS PUSHING ON THE BUZZER?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU FEEL THAT THEY NEEDED YOUR ASSISTANCE PUSHING THE BUZZER?

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU WALKED DOWN ROCKINGHAM AND WHAT DID YOU DO THEN?

A: I WAS WALKING STRAIGHT FORWARD TOWARDS THIS WHITE BRONCO THAT WAS PARKED NORTHBOUND ON ROCKINGHAM ON THE EAST -- EAST CURB, AND AS I WAS WALKING TOWARD THE VEHICLE, IT SEEMS THAT IT WAS PARKED A LITTLE ASKEW OR A LITTLE -- TO ME IT LOOKED PARKED A LITTLE UNUSUAL FOR THAT TYPE OF PARKING.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK --

MS. CLARK: DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A BREAK?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR COURT REPORTER RECESS FOR THE MORNING. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T ALLOW ANYONE COMMUNICATE TO YOU REGARDING THE CASE, DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER IS SUBMITTED TO YOU. AND WE WILL RECONVENE AT 10:35. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU ARE ORDERED TO STEP DOWN. YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN IN FIFTEEN MINUTES.

THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE WILL STAND IN RECESS FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES.

(RECESS.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT, COUNSEL. LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE. COUNSEL, I HAVEN'T FINISHED REVIEWING THOSE ITEMS, THE VIDEOTAPE GIVEN ME AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE BREAK. I DID NOT SEE THAT.

MS. LEWIS: WE WERE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE DISCOVERY.

THE COURT: WE'LL FINISH THE MORNING.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH.

THE WITNESS: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, YOU MAY RESUME WITH YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN WE LAST LEFT OFF, YOU WERE WALKING DOWN TOWARDS THE BRONCO; IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: OKAY.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: TWO, PLEASE. PEOPLE'S 62-A.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE VEHICLE THAT'S BEING SHOWN TO YOU IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES. THAT APPEARS TO BE THE VEHICLE I SAW PARKED BY THE ROCKINGHAM GATE THAT MORNING.

Q: OKAY. WAS IT PARKED IN THAT LOCATION, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED THE BRONCO, YOU APPROACHED IT FROM WHAT END?

A: NORTH OF THE BRONCO.

Q: OKAY. SO THAT IF YOU -- AS YOU WALKED TOWARDS IT, YOU WERE FACING THE FRONT OF THE BRONCO; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I WAS WALKING TOWARDS THE BRONCO AND I MADE THE -- I NOTICED THAT IT WAS JUST PARKED JUST A LITTLE ASKEW, A LITTLE STRANGELY. IT LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS NO DIFFICULTY IN PARKING THERE, BUT YET IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS PARKED RATHER HAPHAZARDLY.

Q: CAN YOU BE A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

A: WELL, IT APPEARED THAT IT WASN'T PULLED TO THE CURB EVENLY. THE REAR END WAS JUTTING OUT A LITTLE BIT AND THE TIRES WEREN'T STRAIGHT IN THE FRONT COMPLETELY.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 62-E.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. SHOWING YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, IF YOU CAN TELL US WHETHER THAT APPEARS TO BE THE SAME FORD BRONCO THAT WE JUST SAW IN THE PREVIOUS PHOTOGRAPH.

A: IT APPEARS TO BE, YES.

Q: AND THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SEE IT IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SAW IT ON JUNE THE 13TH AT APPROXIMATELY 5:00 A.M.?

A: YES. I CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE FRONT, BUT THE REAR APPEARS TO BE ABOUT THE SAME POSITION, YES.

Q: NOW, THE BRONCO THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOOKING AT HERE, IS THAT THE SAME BRONCO THAT YOU PASSED ON THE WAY TO PARKING ON ASHFORD?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND WHEN YOU NOTICED THAT IT WAS PARKED A LITTLE BIT ASKEW OR A LITTLE BIT HAPHAZARDLY, WERE YOU LOOKING AT IT FROM THE FRONT OR FROM THE REAR?

A: FROM THE FRONT.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I WALKED CLOSER TO THE BRONCO, AND AS I APPROACHED TO THE LEFT OF THE BRONCO, WHICH WOULD BE EAST, ON THE PARKWAY, I SAW A BROKEN PIECE OF WOOD. IT WAS WHITE WOOD WITH A FRESHLY EXPOSED PIECE OF WOOD.

Q: WHY DID THAT DRAW YOUR ATTENTION?

A: WELL, IT LOOKED OUT OF PLACE. THERE WAS -- THIS IS A PARKWAY. THERE WAS NOTHING THAT RESEMBLED THIS. THERE WAS NO GARBAGE. THERE WAS NO LEAVES, LIMBS, ANYTHING. IT WAS JUST ODD AND I DID NOT SEE AT ANY TIME ANY TYPE OF WOOD FENCE ANYWHERE WHERE I CAME UP ROCKINGHAM OR ANYWHERE AROUND THE PREMISES.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL, I ASK IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 106.

THE CLERK: 107.

MS. CLARK: 107.

THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 106.

MS. CLARK: IS IT 10 --

THE COURT: 107.

(PEO'S 107 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 107, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US -- YOU JUST DESCRIBED A WOODEN STICK THAT YOU SAW NEAR THE BRONCO SHORTLY AFTER 5:00 A.M. ON JUNE THE 13TH. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN TO YOU IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES. IT APPEARS TO BE A -- DIRECTLY EAST OF THE RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF THE BRONCO ON THE PARKWAY.

Q: I AM SORRY. IS THAT THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SAW IT ON THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH?

A: YES, I BELIEVE SO.

MS. CLARK: AND THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH ALSO BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL, ASK THAT IT BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 108.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 108.

(PEO'S 108 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 108, SIR, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE THAT ITEM?

A: YES. THAT APPEARS TO BE THE PIECE OF WOOD WITH THE EXPOSED WOOD.

Q: THAT YOU SAW?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THERE ANY PAINT ON THAT WOOD?

A: YES. IT APPEARED TO BE OLD WHITE PAINT.

Q: THERE APPEARS TO BE SOME KIND OF A SMUDGE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT, A DARKER COLOR IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT PIECE OF WOOD?

A: YES.

Q: BASED UPON YOUR RECOLLECTION, YOUR OBSERVATION OF THAT PIECE OF WOOD, SIR, DID THERE APPEAR TO BE ANY BLOOD ON IT?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU -- THAT SMUDGE THAT YOU SEE THERE, DO YOU RECALL SEEING THAT DARKER SPOT ON THE WOOD WHEN YOU OBSERVED IT?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND WHAT WAS IT?

A: TO ME, IT LOOKED LIKE THE PATH OF A IRON NAIL THAT HAD RUSTED AND CAUSED RUST TO BE LEFT ON THE WOOD.

Q: UH-HUH. WAS THERE ANY OTHER DEBRIS AROUND THAT PIECE OF WOOD ON THE LAWN?

A: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 107.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AFTER YOU MADE THE OBSERVATION OF THAT PIECE OF WOOD, WHAT ELSE DID YOU DO?

A: I WAS STILL TOWARDS THE FRONT OF THE VEHICLE, AND JUST AS I PASSED THE FRONT BUMPER, I LAID THE BACK OF MY HAND TOWARDS WHERE THE RADIATOR PART OF THE ENGINE WOULD BE DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH THE HOOD. IT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE WARM TO THE TOUCH AT ALL. I WALKED AROUND --

Q: AND -- I AM SORRY. EXCUSE ME. I AM SORRY TO INTERRUPT. WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

A: JUST TO SEE IF THE VEHICLE HAD BEEN DRIVEN RECENTLY.

Q: OKAY. AND THIS WAS AFTER 5:00 A.M. NOW THAT YOU'RE DOING THIS; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT WHAT OFFICER RISKE ALSO DID AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY WITH THE FERRARI AND THE JEEP CHEROKEE WHEN HE FIRST ARRIVED AROUND MIDNIGHT AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY; PLACE HIS HAND ON THE CARS?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT SOMETHING ROUTINELY DONE?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: I AM SORRY. GO AHEAD. I INTERRUPTED.

A: THEN I WALKED TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE VEHICLE, THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE VEHICLE AND I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THE VEHICLE AS I WAS WALKING DOWN THE LENGTH OF IT.

Q: OKAY. WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING FOR?

A: OH, I DIDN'T KNOW. I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I HAD SEEN.

Q: SO YOU'RE JUST LOOKING AT IT?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT THAT POINT, WERE YOU WAITING FOR SOMEBODY -- WHAT WERE YOU DOING OTHER THAN LOOKING AT THE CAR? WERE YOU WAITING FOR SOMETHING?

A: I WAS WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO ANSWER THE RESIDENCE RINGER OR DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TO OBTAIN SOME INFORMATION ON THE WHEREABOUTS OF ANYONE INSIDE IF HE COULD GET A -- I WAS WAITING FOR THEM TO GET SOMEONE TO ANSWER THE DOOR.

Q: AND THE GATE, THE ROCKINGHAM GATE THAT THE BRONCO WAS PARKED JUST NORTH OF, WAS THAT CLOSED?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: AND THE ASHFORD GATE, WAS THAT CLOSED?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: AND THE OTHER DETECTIVES, WERE THEY AROUND THE ASHFORD GATE?

A: I BELIEVE VANNATTER AND LANGE WERE IN THAT GENERAL AREA AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS THE LAST TIME I SAW HIM WAS STANDING IN THE STREET WITH A CELLULAR PHONE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 62-C. I'M SORRY. YEAH. C. EXCUSE ME. PEOPLE'S 62-B.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: THERE WE GO. ALL RIGHT. YOU SAID YOU WALKED ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE BRONCO. AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT SIDE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID YOU NOTICE ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE BRONCO AS YOU LOOKED AT IT?

A: WELL, AS I WAS WALKING PAST THE VEHICLE, I NOTICED A SMALL SPOT ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE OF THE DRIVER'S SIDE OF THE VEHICLE.

Q: WHY DID THAT ATTRACT YOUR ATTENTION?

A: WELL, THE VEHICLE, AS YOU CAN SEE, IS WHITE AND IT STOOD OUT SOMEWHAT. IT WAS A VERY CLEAN VEHICLE.

Q: UH-HUH. AND WERE YOU ABLE -- AS YOU LOOKED AT THE CAR DOOR, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE CLEARLY WHAT IT WAS AT FIRST GLANCE?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU NOTICED IT?

A: I TOOK THE SMALL FLASHLIGHT OFF MY BELT AND I USED THAT FLASHLIGHT TO LOOK AT THE SPOT.

Q: THE SAME FLASHLIGHT YOU USED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES, MA'AM.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 62-C.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHERE DID YOU CARRY THAT FLASHLIGHT, SIR?

A: ON THE LEFT SIDE OF MY DUTY BELT THAT I WEAR WITH MY DETECTIVE OUTFIT I GUESS YOU'D CALL IT.

Q: AND YOUR DETECTIVE OUTFIT WAS -- CONSISTED OF?

A: TIE, JACKET, SHIRT, SLACKS.

Q: BUT YOU WEREN'T WEARING YOUR JACKET AT THAT TIME?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: SO YOU WHAT, YOU JUST CLIP THAT TO YOUR BELT?

A: IT SNAPS ON THE BELT AND THEN THE SMALL FLASHLIGHT JUST HANGS ON A SMALL HOLDER.

Q: NOW, SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 62-C, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THAT'S THE SMALL SPOT THAT I SAW ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE.

Q: UH-HUH. WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU?

A: WELL, AT FIRST, IT JUST LOOKED LIKE A SPOT OF UNKNOWN ORIGIN. WHEN I TOOK THE FLASHLIGHT OUT, I LOOKED AT IT AND IT LOOKED REDDISH BROWN AND TRANSLUCENT QUALITIES TO IT AND APPEARED TO BE DRY BLOOD.

Q: AFTER YOU SAW THAT, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: THEN I CONTINUED TO LOOK FARTHER AROUND THE VEHICLE. AT ONE POINT, I ACTUALLY GOT DOWN ON MY HANDS AND KNEES AND LOOKED IN THE COMPLETE DOOR AREA, AND DOWN ON THE DOOR SILL I FOUND THREE OR FOUR SMALL LITTLE LINES WITH THE SAME COLOR AND QUALITIES THAT WERE EXHIBITED ABOVE THE DOOR HANDLE.

Q: OKAY. AND THOSE -- WHAT AREA OF THE DOOR? WAS THAT THE DRIVER'S DOOR, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT AREA OF THE DRIVER'S DOOR WOULD THAT BE THAT YOU SAW THOSE THREE OR FOUR LINES THAT LOOKED THE SAME COLOR AS THE SMUDGE SHOWN IN 62-C?

A: AS YOU OPEN THE DRIVER'S DOOR, THE AREA THAT THE DRIVER'S DOOR WOULD OPEN TO EXPOSE AT THE BOTTOM WOULD BE CALLED THE DOOR SILL, AND THAT EDGE THAT IS EXPOSED TO THE EXTERIOR BUT STILL PART OF THE BOTTOM OF THE SILL, IT WAS ON THAT PART.

Q: OKAY. WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU SAW ALL THAT?

A: I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW AT THAT TIME, BUT I CONTINUED TO LOOK AT THE VEHICLE TO SEE IF I COULD OBSERVE ANYTHING ELSE.

Q: DID YOU --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 62-B, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHY DON'T YOU SHOW US -- I'M GOING TO USE THE LASER LIGHT. YOU DIRECT THE LIGHT, TELL ME WHERE -- TELL US WHERE YOU SAW --

A: ON THIS SCREEN?

Q: RIGHT, IF YOU CAN. CAN YOU SEE IT, SIR, FROM WHERE YOU'RE SITTING?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DIRECT THE LIGHT SO THE JURY CAN SEE --

A: RAISE IT UP --

Q: -- WHERE YOU SAW THOSE THREE LINES YOU TALKED ABOUT.

A: YOU CAN SEE THE LINE OF THE DOOR THAT OUTLINES THE DOOR THAT WOULD OPEN. GO DIRECTLY UP, NOW TO THE LEFT. YOU CAN CIRCLE ANY AREA IN THAT SIX INCHES PROBABLY IN THAT AREA, YES.

Q: AND THAT'S WHERE YOU SAW THOSE THREE LINES THAT APPEARED TO BE THE SAME COLOR AS THE SPOT POINTED TO BY DENNIS FUNG UP HERE?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU CONTINUED TO LOOK AT THE VEHICLE, DID YOU?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHERE DID YOU LOOK?

A: I ATTEMPTED TO LOOK IN THE VEHICLE WITH MY FLASHLIGHT. IT WASN'T VERY HIGH POWERED AND THERE WAS TINTED WINDOWS. SO THAT WAS SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT. AT ONE POINT, I CUPPED MY FLASHLIGHT AND TRIED TO GET THE BEAM TO FOCUS AS MUCH AS I COULD, AND I SAW A PACKAGE IN THE REAR CARGO AREA.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 62-F.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: WELL, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT I SAW IN THE REAR, YES.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT, IF ANY, IDENTIFYING INFORMATION WAS ON THOSE PACKAGES OR ANY OF THEM?

A: I SAW "O.J. SIMPSON" ON THE ADDRESS OR "O.J. SIMPSON ENTERPRISES" AND "ATTENTION CATHY."

Q: UH-HUH. AND DID THAT CAUSE YOU TO FORM SOME OPINION ABOUT WHO OWNED THE CAR, SIR?

A: WELL, IT SEEMED TO BE MR. SIMPSON'S OR SOMEONE THAT WORKED FOR HIM.

Q: WHAT ELSE DID YOU SEE IN THE REAR CAR -- NEVER MIND. STRIKE THAT. ALL RIGHT. AS YOU MADE -- AFTER YOU MADE THOSE OBSERVATIONS OF THE PACKAGES IN THE REAR CARGO AREA, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING ELSE IN THE REAR CARGO AREA?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHAT WAS THAT?

A: THERE WAS A SHOVEL THAT WAS APPROXIMATELY FIVE FEET LONG. IT WAS -- I CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS A POINTED OR A FLAT-NOSE SHOVEL, BUT IT WAS TURNED POINT DOWN; IN OTHER WORDS, THE CUTTING EDGE DOWN, AND THERE WAS A LARGE PIECE OF HEAVY GAUGE PLASTIC THAT WAS TUCKED IN A SIDE CARGO AREA IN THE REAR PART OF THE VEHICLE.

Q: CAN YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT DEPICTS WHAT YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND WHERE IS THAT?

A: IN THE LEFT CORNER OF THIS PHOTOGRAPH, I SEE THE SHOVEL THAT I'M DESCRIBING.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU SEE THE PLASTIC, SIR?

A: THERE'S A POCKET AREA TO THE -- ON THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE VEHICLE.

Q: IN THE REAR CARGO AREA?

A: IN THE REAR CARGO AREA, AND IT WAS FOLDED AND IT WAS TUCKED IN THAT AREA.

Q: TUCKED IN THE POCKET?

A: IT WAS A POCKET OR A NETTING. I'M NOT SURE WHICH IT WAS. IT SEEMED TO BE HELD THERE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S ALREADY BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL, ASK THAT IT BE PEOPLE'S 109.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 109, PHOTOGRAPH.

(PEO'S 109 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 109, SIR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES. THAT IS THE SHOVEL I DESCRIBED.

Q: IS THAT THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU SAW IT, SIR, WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH THE REAR CARGO WINDOW OF THE BRONCO IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE THE 13TH?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AFTER YOU MADE THOSE OBSERVATIONS, SIR, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I WENT BACK TOWARDS ASHFORD AND I -- I DIDN'T WANT TO YELL TO THE OTHER DETECTIVES, BUT I WANTED TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT SOME OF THE OBSERVATIONS I MADE.

Q: AND WHO DID YOU CONTACT?

A: I SAW DETECTIVE LANGE UP TOWARDS THE INTERSECTION OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM, AND I BELIEVE I WALKED THAT AREA. I DIDN'T GET REAL CLOSE, BUT I GOT CLOSE ENOUGH WHERE I DIDN'T HAVE TO USE AN ELEVATED VOICE TO COMMUNICATE, AND I GOT DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND LANGE TO COME DOWN TO THE BRONCO.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU CONTACT -- MADE CONTACT WITH DETECTIVE LANGE, WHERE WAS HE?

A: I THINK HE WAS ON ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM INTERSECTION MORE INBOARD OF ROCKINGHAM ON ASHFORD, BUT I COULD VISIBLY SEE HIM AS I WAS WALKING TOWARDS THAT DIRECTION.

Q: UH-HUH. AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER, WHERE WAS HE WHEN YOU MADE CONTACT WITH HIM?

A: I DON'T RECALL SEEING HIM INITIALLY WHEN I TURNED AROUND. I BELIEVE HE WAS BACK TOWARDS THE GATE.

Q: SO YOU CONTACTED DETECTIVE LANGE FIRST AT THE CORNER OF ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM?

A: I BELIEVE SO, YES.

Q: OKAY. AND AFTER YOU TOLD HIM WHAT YOU'D SEEN, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: WELL, I BELIEVE I SAID, "I THINK I SAW SOMETHING ON THE BRONCO," AND VANNATTER AND LANGE AND I BOTH WALKED DOWN THERE AT THE SAME TIME.

Q: SO YOU ALL WALKED DOWN, THE THREE OF YOU TOGETHER?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO THEN?

A: I SHOWED THEM THE OBSERVATIONS. FIRST, THE -- AS WE WERE WALKING, I DESCRIBED THE WAY THE BRONCO FIRST KIND OF GOT MY ATTENTION. THEN I SHOWED THEM THE PIECE OF WOOD AND THEN THE SPOT THAT I THOUGHT WAS BLOOD, THE FOUR SMALL MARKS THAT I THOUGHT WAS BLOOD. I DESCRIBED WHAT WAS IN THE VEHICLE AND TRIED TO USE MY FLASHLIGHT AND GIVE THEM THE ABILITY TO SEE THOSE ITEMS.

Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: AT SOME POINT, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WALKED DOWN THE STREET AND JOINED --

Q: TOWARDS YOU?

A: YES. AND I'M NOT SURE HOW LONG HE STAYED THERE. I REMEMBER DETECTIVE VANNATTER SAID, "LET'S RUN THE VEHICLE"; IN OTHER WORDS, RUN A DMV ON THE VEHICLE.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, SIR, WHEN YOU SAY RUN THE DMV?

A: USE THE RADIO TO RUN A DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES CHECK ON THE LICENSE PLATE TO THE REGISTERED OWNER.

Q: WHOSE RADIO DID YOU USE?

A: I HAD A RADIO. I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS TAKEN FROM OUR VEHICLE OR ROBBERY-HOMICIDE'S, BUT WE HAD A ROVER.

Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU DO THAT, RUN THE DMV THAT IS?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHAT DID IT COME BACK TO?

A: HERTZ RENT-A-CAR.

Q: WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID THAT TELL YOU IN TERMS OF THE OWNERSHIP OF THE CAR?

A: IT BELONGED TO HERTZ RENT-A-CAR.

Q: DID THAT GIVE YOU ANY FURTHER INFORMATION CONCERNING THE POSSIBILITY THAT IT WAS THE DEFENDANT'S VEHICLE?

A: WELL, I HAD KNOWN THAT HE HAD WORKED FOR HERTZ RENT-A-CAR ONLY FROM COMMERCIALS. BUT THE PACKAGE IN THE REAR COUPLED WITH THE DMV, I CONCLUDED THAT AT THAT TIME.

Q: OKAY. THAT HE WAS THE OWNER?

A: THAT HE COULD BE THE OWNER OR HIS CORPORATION, YES.

Q: DID YOU GIVE THAT INFORMATION TO EITHER DETECTIVE VANNATTER OR DETECTIVE LANGE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WELL, AT THAT POINT, DETECTIVE LANGE WALKED BACK UP TOWARDS ASHFORD AND ROCKINGHAM AND I BELIEVE EVENTUALLY TO THE FRONT GATE AT ASHFORD AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND I STOOD FOR A MOMENT SEVERAL FEET IN FRONT OF THE BRONCO AND WE DISCUSSED EXACTLY WHAT WE HAD OBSERVED AND WHAT IMPACT IT WOULD HAVE ON WHAT WE WERE ATTEMPTING TO DO.

Q: AND WHAT WERE YOU ATTEMPTING TO DO?

A: WELL, WE WERE THERE TO MAKE NOTIFICATION, BUT WE WERE FAIRLY UNSUCCESSFUL AT RAISING ANYONE IN THE HOME.

Q: AND WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT?

A: WELL, I DON'T KNOW -- I WASN'T DOING ANYTHING. I WAS NOT IN CHARGE. BUT AS FAR AS THE OBSERVATIONS ON THE BRONCO, I THINK DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND I BOTH VOCALIZED OUR CONCERN THAT COMING FROM THE SCENE OF A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AND NOW WE'RE AT THIS LOCATION WITH A VEHICLE PARKED AT THIS LOCATION WITH WHAT WE BELIEVE IS BLOOD AND WE BELIEVE IT BELONGED TO MR. SIMPSON.

Q: DID YOU ATTEMPT TO GET ANY FURTHER INFORMATION OR TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE WAS FURTHER INFORMATION OBTAINED FROM WESTEC ABOUT WHETHER -- ABOUT THE -- WHETHER YOU SHOULD EXPECT TO FIND SOMEONE IN THE RESIDENCE?

A: WELL, I BELIEVE THAT WE EVENTUALLY OR DETECTIVE PHILLIPS EVENTUALLY GOT THE RESIDENCE PHONE NUMBER INSIDE THE RESIDENCE, WHICH WAS UNSUCCESSFUL TO RAISE ANYBODY.

Q: SO HE HAD CALLED INTO THE RESIDENCE, HAD HE?

A: YES. I DON'T KNOW IF HE ACQUIRED THAT FROM WESTEC OR THE WATCH COMMANDER, BUT --

Q: NOW, DID YOU HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH THE WESTEC UNIT?

A: THERE WAS A WESTEC UNIT THAT WAS TRAVELING NORTHBOUND ON ROCKINGHAM THAT PARKED HIS VEHICLE ON ROCKINGHAM AND EXITED THAT VEHICLE AND WALKED TOWARDS ME.

Q: AND WAS THAT -- CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, HAD YOU SEEN ANY KIND OF WESTEC SIGN ON ANY PART OF THE PROPERTY OUTSIDE OF THE -- EITHER THE ASHFORD OR THE ROCKINGHAM GATE?

A: I DIDN'T NOTICE ANY SIGN, NO.

Q: WHAT IS WESTEC?

A: WESTEC'S A PRIVATE SECURITY FIRM THAT -- AN ARMED SECURITY FIRM THAT USUALLY INSTALLS ALARMS AND THEY HAVE RESPONSE UNITS THAT CAN INVESTIGATE ANYTHING FROM A PANIC ALARM TO A POSSIBLE BURGLAR TO TRESPASSING.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU MADE CONTACT WITH SOMEONE FROM WESTEC THAT NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: IN THAT EARLY MORNING?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU GET SOME INFORMATION FROM THAT PERSON?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHAT INFORMATION WAS THAT?

A: AS THE WESTEC SERGEANT WAS PASSING MYSELF, I STOPPED HIM AND I SAID, "IS THERE ANYBODY THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE AT HOME NOW," AND HE RESPONDED THAT, "WELL, THERE'S A LIVE-IN MAID THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THERE 24 HOURS A DAY."

Q: UH-HUH. AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT INFORMATION?

A: WELL, I DIRECTLY WENT BACK TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND LANGE'S LOCATION BY THE ASHFORD GATE AND INFORMED THEM OF THAT SITUATION OR THAT INFORMATION.

Q: AND WHAT TIME WAS IT BY THAT TIME AT THAT POINT WHEN YOU WENT TO TELL DETECTIVE VANNATTER THAT YOU HAD LEARNED THE MAID WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THERE ALL THE TIME, IF YOU RECALL?

A: WELL, I THINK IT HAD TO BE 30 OR 40 MINUTES SINCE WE'D BEEN THERE. IT'S PROBABLY A QUARTER TO 6:00, 10 TO 6:00.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: AT THIS POINT, THERE WAS MORE DISCUSSION ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE LOCATION AND OUR CONCERN THAT THERE COULD BE ANOTHER VICTIM OR SOME TYPE OF A SITUATION HERE THAT WE DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND.

Q: YOU'D BEEN THERE -- OKAY. IT'S QUARTER TO 6:00 OR 10 TO 6:00 AT THAT POINT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU INDICATED I BELIEVE THAT YOU LEFT -- YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS LEFT BUNDY AT ABOUT 5:00 A.M.; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT YOU -- IT TOOK ABOUT FIVE TO 10 MINUTES TO GET TO 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

A: YES.

Q: SO AT THE VERY LATEST, YOU WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THERE AT ABOUT 10 AFTER 5:00?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU -- YOU -- THE FOUR OF YOU WERE OUTSIDE TRYING TO REACH SOMEONE INSIDE THE HOUSE FROM ABOUT 10 AFTER 5:00 TO AT LEAST A QUARTER TO 6:00 OR 10 TO 6:00?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU INDICATED AT THAT POINT AFTER YOU HAD BEEN THERE FOR APPROXIMATELY 35 TO 40 MINUTES, YOU AND DETECTIVE LANGE OR -- WHO WERE YOU -- WHO WAS TALKING?

A: DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND I WERE SPEAKING IN FRONT OF THE BRONCO INITIALLY AND -- ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THAT LOCATION OR AT -- BY THE ASHFORD GATE?

Q: YOU TELL ME. AT ABOUT QUARTER TO 6:00 OR 10 TO 6:00, WHERE WERE YOU?

A: WE WERE AT THE ASHFORD GATE, THE THREE OF US, AND I BELIEVE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WAS STILL ON THE CELLULAR PHONE.

Q: UH-HUH. OKAY. AND WHAT WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

A: WELL, WHAT WE'D BEEN CONFRONTED WITH. WE HAD SOME SMALL PIECES OF EVIDENCE THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT QUITE POSSIBLY, SOMEBODY HAD LEFT THE BUNDY SCENE AND COME TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION.

Q: SO WERE YOU -- WHO WAS DECIDING WHAT TO DO? WHO WAS --

A: DETECTIVE VANNATTER WAS DOING MOST OF THE TALKING. WE HAD PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED OUR CONCERNS WITH ANOTHER POSSIBLE VICTIM OR A KIDNAP TYPE ROBBERY, MURDER SUICIDE. WE HAD NO IDEA EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE CONFRONTED WITH AT THAT POINT.

Q: WHO WAS IN CHARGE THERE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM?

A: I WOULD HAVE TO SAY DETECTIVE VANNATTER.

Q: WERE YOU THE MOST JUNIOR DETECTIVE THERE, SIR?

A: THE MOST --

Q: JUNIOR DETECTIVE THERE.

A: YES, I WAS. YES.

Q: AND THE YOUNGEST TOO?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: AT SOME POINT, A CONCLUSION WAS MADE BY DETECTIVE VANNATTER THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET INTO THE COMPOUND AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THERE WAS A QUESTION HOW -- HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS, AND I SUGGESTED, "YOU WANT ME TO GO OVER THE WALL?"

Q: YOU WERE THE MOST JUNIOR DETECTIVE, CORRECT?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND WERE YOU IN THE BEST PHYSICAL SHAPE OF THE FOUR DETECTIVES THERE?

A: WELL, I DON'T -- YOU KIND OF PUT ME ON THE SPOT, BUT I THINK I WAS THE TALLEST DETECTIVE.

Q: OKAY. YOU'RE CERTAINLY THE YOUNGEST?

A: I WAS THE YOUNGEST, YES.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU WEARING AT THAT TIME?

A: WHITE SHIRT, TIE, SLACKS.

Q: NO JACKET?

A: NO JACKET.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU ASKED DETECTIVE VANNATTER IF HE WANTED YOU TO GO OVER THE WALL?

A: I THINK I MADE THE STATEMENT AND THEN HE JUST SAID, "OKAY."

Q: OKAY. SO THAT DECISION WAS UP TO HIM TO MAKE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: I JUMPED THE WALL JUST TO THE LEFT OR EAST OF THE ASHFORD GATE, LANDED ON THE OTHER SIDE, CAME AROUND AND RELEASED THE HYDRAULIC ARM TO THE GATE ON ASHFORD AND LET THE OTHER DETECTIVES INTO THE LOCATION.

Q: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I BELIEVE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER WERE SOMEWHAT AHEAD WALKING AND THEN DETECTIVE LANGE AND THEN MYSELF TRAILING AND DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WENT TO THE FRONT DOOR.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 64.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND WHAT IS THAT?

A: THAT'S THE ASHFORD GATE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM.

Q: DO YOU SEE AN ANIMAL ON THE -- JUST TO THE INSIDE OF THE GATE?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE A DOG?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: NOW, CAN YOU SEE THE FRONT DOOR AREA FROM THE VANTAGE POINT OF THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: WELL, I KNOW WHERE THE FRONT DOOR IS, BUT IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO SEE FROM THIS PHOTOGRAPH.

Q: CAN YOU -- IF YOU CAN SEE THE SCREEN, PLEASE DIRECT THE POINTER TO THE AREA WHERE YOU -- WHERE THE FRONT DOOR IS.

A: GO STRAIGHT UP AND THEN TO THE LEFT AND THEN A LITTLE HIGHER. RIGHT IN THAT AREA I SUPPOSE (INDICATING).

Q: UH-HUH. OKAY. AND IS THAT WHERE YOU ALL WALKED TO?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

THE COURT: YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE THAT FOR THE RECORD?

MS. CLARK: I AM SORRY. THAT'S RIGHT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. FOR THE RECORD, I'M POINTING TO AN AREA THAT APPEARS TO BE PRETTY MUCH THE MIDDLE OF THE PHOTOGRAPH JUST UNDER THE WINDOWS AT THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE THAT ARE DEPICTED THAT YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH DIRECTLY STRAIGHT DOWN FROM THERE.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT HAPPENED -- YOU ALL WENT TO THAT FRONT DOOR AREA, AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: I WAS STANDING TO THE REAR OF THE GROUP AND I'M NOT SURE IF VANNATTER OR PHILLIPS WERE KNOCKING. BUT FOR A COUPLE MINUTES, WE STOOD THERE AND KNOCKED AT THE FRONT DOOR AND RECEIVED NO RESPONSE.

Q: OKAY. SO WAS IT ALL FOUR OF YOU THAT WERE STANDING AT THE FRONT DOOR THERE TOGETHER?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU ALL WALK OVER TO THE FRONT DOOR TOGETHER?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID ANYONE ANSWER THE DOOR?

A: NO.

Q: HOW LONG DID -- WHO DID THE KNOCKING? DO YOU REMEMBER?

A: IT WAS PHILLIPS OR VANNATTER. I TEND TO THINK IT WAS PHILLIPS, BUT I CAN'T BE ABSOLUTELY SURE.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU JUST STOOD WITH THEM?

A: I STOOD BEHIND SEVERAL FEET.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU DOING?

A: JUST STANDING WAITING FOR SOMEBODY TO ANSWER THE DOOR.

Q: DID ANYONE ANSWER THE DOOR?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: VANNATTER AND PHILLIPS LEFT THE FRONT DOOR AREA, AND WE ALL TURNED AND PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER STARTED WALKING BACK TOWARDS THE FRONT GATE AND THEN ENTERED A WALKWAY THAT WENT ALONGSIDE TO THE HOUSE ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY ANIMALS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN DID YOU DO THAT?

A: RIGHT ABOUT WHEN WE TURNED. I BELIEVE WHEN WE TURNED TO WALK IN THAT PATH.

Q: AND THAT PATH, IS IT PARALLEL TO ASHFORD OR ROCKINGHAM? THE PATH?

A: I AM SORRY?

Q: THE PATH THAT YOU TOOK, IS IT PARALLEL TO ASHFORD OR ROCKINGHAM?

A: IT'S PARALLEL TO ASHFORD.

THE COURT: HAVE YOU PREMARKED THIS?

MS. CLARK: YES, THIS HAS BEEN MARKED. IT'S AN OLD ONE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MAKE SURE IT'S STABLE.

MS. CLARK: YEAH.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, WHICH EXHIBIT IS THIS?

MS. CLARK: THIS IS PEOPLE'S -- PEOPLE'S 66, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: CAN YOU JUST TURN IT AROUND?

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THAT'S WHAT I WAS JUST ABOUT TO DO. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: YOU'RE WELCOME.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IF YOU WOULD, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WOULD YOU STEP DOWN. USING THE POINTER, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE SHOW US THE PATH THAT YOU TOOK WITH DETECTIVES PHILLIPS, VANNATTER AND LANGE AFTER YOU KNOCKED ON THE FRONT DOOR AND GOT NO RESPONSE. WHEN I SAY YOU, I MEAN THEY, ALL OF YOU.

A: THIS AREA THAT'S MARKED AS "ENTRANCE," THAT IS THE FRONT DOOR AREA. WE TURNED AROUND AND WALKED NORTHBOUND UNTIL WE COME TO THIS PATH THAT IS BEIGE IN COLOR ON THIS CHART AND IT'S SOMEWHAT IN KIND OF AN "S", CIRCLES AROUND TO THE REAR OF THE -- REAR OF THE RESIDENCE. IT CONTINUES AROUND AND STARTS TO GO SOUTHBOUND UP SOME STAIRS INTO A PATIO AREA NEXT TO THE POOL.

Q: AND I THINK YOU INDICATED THAT WHEN YOU FIRST TURNED ONTO THAT WALKWAY, YOU SAW A DOG?

A: YES. I BELIEVE IT WAS -- HE MIGHT HAVE CAME OUT OF THE PATHWAY AREA, BUT IT APPEARS TO BE RIGHT WHERE THE PATHWAY MEETS THE DRIVEWAY, SOMEWHERE AROUND THERE.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS WAS INDICATING THE SOUTHERN POINT OF THE INTERSECTION OF THE PATHWAY AND THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHAT DID THE DOG LOOK LIKE?

A: BLACK, LONG-HAIRED -- I COULDN'T TELL THE BREED. IT LOOKED MAYBE LIKE SOME KIND OF A MIX OR SHEPHERD TYPE DOG, ALL BLACK.

Q: SO THE FOUR OF YOU WERE WALKING ONTO THE WALKWAY WHEN THE DOG APPROACHED?

A: YES.

Q: DID IT BARK?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT DID IT DO?

A: WELL, WE STOPPED BECAUSE WE THOUGHT WE WERE ABOUT TO BE BIT, AND THEN THE DOG DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. SO WE KIND OF WALKED BY AND HE JUST ALLOWED US TO.

Q: AND HE DIDN'T BARK, HE DIDN'T BITE?

A: NO, HE DIDN'T BARK AT ALL.

Q: WHAT DID THE DOG DO AS YOU PROCEEDED DOWN THE WALKWAY?

A: I DON'T KNOW. WE JUST -- WHEN HE WALKED BY, THAT WAS FINE WITH ME, AND WE CONTINUED.

Q: THAT WAS FINE WITH YOU?

A: THAT WAS FINE WITH ME.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO DID THE FOUR OF YOU ALL WALK TOGETHER ON THAT PATHWAY?

A: PRETTY MUCH I BELIEVE, YES. I WAS IN THE REAR.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT WERE YOU DOING AS YOU WERE WALKING ON THE WALKWAY WITH THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES?

A: I WAS DOING NOTHING. I WAS JUST FOLLOWING.

Q: AND WHEN YOU GOT -- WHEN YOU WALKED THROUGH THE REAR YARD AREA, WERE YOU SEARCHING OR LOOKING AROUND? WHAT WERE YOU DOING?

A: I WAS REALLY DOING NOTHING. I WAS JUST FOLLOWING THESE DETECTIVES THAT WERE WALKING ALONG THIS PATHWAY.

Q: OKAY. WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: I SAW THE LAWN AND THE PATHWAY AND WALKING INTO THE POOL AREA, JUST SAW THE POOL AREA. NOTHING -- NOTHING UNUSUAL.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WE WALKED ONTO THE PATIO AREA. I THINK -- I THINK PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER PROBABLY SLOWED SOMEWHAT AND LOOKED AROUND, AND I DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY VERBALIZE, BUT I KIND OF ASSUMED THAT SOMEONE SAW SOMETHING DOWN IN THIS AREA THAT THEY WANTED TO LOOK AT OR KNOCK ON. I DON'T KNOW. THEY WALKED PAST THESE STEP AREA DOWN ONTO THIS AREA BY THE POOL AND DOWN TOWARDS THIS ROOM THAT IS DENOTED ON THIS CHART BY KAELIN'S ROOM (INDICATING).

Q: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, IF YOU WANT TO STEP OVER TO THE SIDE A LITTLE BIT, I DON'T KNOW IF THE JURORS ON THE END CAN SEE WHERE YOU'RE POINTING TO, AND SHOW -- SHOW THEM THE AREA YOU'VE JUST INDICATED THAT YOU WENT TO.

A: WE WALKED DOWN THIS AREA ONTO THIS AREA HERE. I RECALL THAT THERE WAS A LITTLE PAUSE AND THEN CONTINUING DOWN TO THIS PATIO AREA, AND THIS IS WHERE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS APPROACHED THIS DOORWAY OF WHAT IS DESCRIBED HERE AS KAELIN'S ROOM (INDICATING).

Q: AND WHAT WERE YOU DOING? WERE YOU IN THE FRONT? WERE YOU IN THE REAR? WHERE WERE YOU IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE OTHER -- THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES?

A: WELL, I WAS TO THE REAR AND I BELIEVE I WAS STILL UP EITHER ON THESE STAIRS OR STANDING UP ON THIS AREA HERE (INDICATING).

Q: SO WERE YOU FOLLOWING THEM?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU GOT TO THE AREA MARKED -- WHEN THE FOUR OF YOU GOT TO THE AREA MARKED KAELIN'S ROOM, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I SAW DETECTIVE PHILLIPS LOOK TOWARDS THE DOOR AND HE WENT UP TO IT, AND I THINK ABOUT AT THE SAME TIME HE WAS ABOUT TO KNOCK, I COULD TELL IT WAS A GLASS PANE DOOR AND THERE WAS WOOD LOUVERS ON THE INSIDE AND SOME OF THEM WERE OPEN. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS COULD -- HE SAW SOMETHING, HE TURNED BACK AND SAID, "THERE'S A GUY ON THE BED," OR, "THERE'S SOMEONE LYING ON THE BED," SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND HE KNOCKED ON THE DOOR AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER, SOMEONE CAME TO THE DOOR.

Q: OKAY. CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE PERSON THAT CAME TO THE DOOR?

A: MALE WHITE, 5/9, 5/10, LONG BROWN HAIR. HE LOOKED LIKE HE WAS JUST WOKEN UP. HE HAD -- HE MIGHT HAVE HAD SWEATPANTS ON OR SOME TYPE OF PAJAMA, T-SHIRT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, COULD YOU KEEP YOUR VOICE UP, PLEASE?

THE WITNESS: SORRY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND RESUME YOUR SEAT, AND WE'LL COME BACK TO THAT. JUST FOR A MOMENT RESUME YOUR SEAT AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO NEED THE BOARD AGAIN. SO --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THE PERSON THAT YOU -- THAT ANSWERED THE DOOR, DO YOU KNOW NOW WHO THAT IS, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WHO IS THAT?

A: KATO KAELIN.

Q: AND AFTER HE ANSWERED THE DOOR, DID SOMEONE SPEAK TO HIM?

A: YES. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

Q: AND DID YOU HEAR WHAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS SAID TO HIM?

A: I WAS STANDING BEHIND AND ABOVE AND I HEARD -- I HEARD HIM ASK MR. KAELIN IF HE KNEW -- IF MR. SIMPSON WAS IN THE HOUSE, AND THEN I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS PHILLIPS OR ONE OF THE OTHER DETECTIVES MAKING A COMMENT THAT, "THERE MIGHT BE SOME SORT OF AN EMERGENCY, WE NEED TO KNOW," OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.

Q: AND WHAT DID -- AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I HEARD MR. KAELIN DIRECT ALL OF US TO MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER'S ROOM WHICH HE POINTED EAST DOWN THAT WALKWAY AMONG THE BUNGALOWS AND SAID SOMETHING LIKE, "MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER, ARNELLE'S ROOM IS DOWN THIS WAY," AND I THINK HE POINTED OR DIRECTED THEM DOWN THAT WAY.

Q: OKAY. NOW, DO YOU SEE THE AREA THAT HE POINTED TO ON THIS EXHIBIT MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 66?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: CAN YOU PLEASE STEP DOWN, SIR, AND POINT IT OUT TO THE JURY?

A: THIS RIGHT DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF WHAT'S DESCRIBED AS KAELIN'S ROOM, THERE'S A WALKWAY. THIS WALKWAY (INDICATING). HE POINTED THEM DOWN TOWARDS THIS AREA, WHICH WAS ARNELLE'S ROOM.

Q: AND WHEN HE DIRECTED THE -- WHEN HE DIRECTED ALL OF YOU TO ARNELLE'S ROOM, HE POINTED THAT OUT, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER AND LANGE WALKED IN THAT DIRECTION.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: WELL, I CAME DOWN THESE STEPS AND I STAYED WITH MR. KAELIN.

Q: OKAY. AND WHAT HAPPENED AT THAT POINT?

A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY WALKED DOWN AND TALKED TO ARNELLE SIMPSON. I STAYED WITH MR. KAELIN, AND HE WAS STANDING SOMEWHAT IN THE DOORWAY AND I ASKED IF I COULD COME IN, AND HE SAID YES.

Q: OKAY. WHY DON'T YOU TAKE YOUR SEAT. WHEN YOU MADE YOUR FIRST CONTACT WITH MR. KAELIN, WERE YOU OUTSIDE OR INSIDE HIS ROOM?

A: I BELIEVE I WAS OUTSIDE STANDING ON THE WALKWAY OUTSIDE THE DOOR.

Q: AND WHERE WAS HE?

A: HE WAS JUST INSIDE THE OPEN DOOR.

Q: WHAT -- HOW DID HE LOOK TO YOU?

A: LIKE HE HAD JUST WOKEN UP, MUSSED HAIR. I NOTICED HE HAD BLOODSHOT EYES. THEY WERE KIND OF GLASSY. HE HAD A T-SHIRT, SOME TYPE OF LOOSE-FITTING PANTS ON, COULD HAVE BEEN SWEATPANTS, LITTLE DISORIENTED.

Q: UH-HUH. WHAT WAS YOUR OPINION OF HIS CONDITION WHEN YOU FIRST MADE CONTACT WITH HIM?

A: WELL, I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW IF I REALLY HAD FORMED AN OPINION. I DID ASK HIM IF HE HAD BEEN DRINKING AND I THINK -- I'M PRETTY SURE HE RESPONDED THAT HE DOESN'T EVEN DRINK.

Q: AND BASED ON YOUR OBSERVATIONS OF HIM, SIR, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I ASKED HIM IF I COULD JUST DO A SHORT TEST ON HIM JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT HE WASN'T UNDER THE INFLUENCE.

Q: AND WHAT KIND OF TEST IS IT THAT YOU GAVE HIM?

A: IT'S CALLED A NYSTAGMUS TEST.

Q: AND WHAT IS THAT?

A: IT'S A TEST THAT YOU WOULD USE TO DETERMINE IF SOMEBODY WAS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OR POSSIBLY UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF A DEPRESSANT, ONE BEING ALCOHOL.

Q: IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE GIVEN TO SOMEONE BEFORE?

A: YES.

Q: UNDER WHAT -- IN WHAT SITUATION?

A: WELL, SITUATIONS MAYBE ON A TRAFFIC STOP THINKING THAT THERE'S A POSSIBILITY ONE MIGHT BE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ALCOHOL OR A NARCOTICS LOCATION TO ELIMINATE A DEPRESSANT OR ALCOHOL FROM YOUR OBSERVATIONS.

Q: AND HOW IS THAT TEST GIVEN?

A: WELL, YOU USE USUALLY A PENCIL OR A PEN. YOU HOLD IT VERTICAL, FOOT TO 15, 16 INCHES IN FRONT OF THE PERSON'S FACE. YOU TELL THEM TO CONCENTRATE USUALLY ON THE FOREHEAD RIGHT BETWEEN YOUR EYES AND TO NOT MOVE THEIR HEAD, BUT FOLLOW THE PEN AS YOU MOVE IT FROM RIGHT TO LEFT WITH YOUR EYES.

Q: UH-HUH. CAN YOU SHOW US? DO YOU HAVE A PEN?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU HAVE ONE?

A: NO.

Q: WANT ONE? GIVE IT BACK TO ME. OKAY. SHOW US.

A: I PUT THE PEN APPROXIMATELY THIS FAR AWAY FROM THE FRONT OF THE PERSON'S FACE THAT IS GOING TO SUBMIT TO THE TEST AND THEN I WOULD INSTRUCT THEM, I BEING THE PERSON ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS PEN, TO DO NOT MOVE YOUR HEAD, AND I'LL DEMONSTRATE THIS WITHOUT -- BEING THE PERSON THAT'S BEING GIVEN THE TEST, I WOULD CONCENTRATE ON THAT PERSON'S HEAD, AND AS I MOVE THE PEN, I WOULD WANT TO MOVE MY EYE, NOT MY HEAD (INDICATING). IF THERE IS SOMETHING INDICATIVE OF A DEPRESSANT, THE EYE WOULD BOUNCE.

Q: OKAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. INDICATING A PEN DISTANCE ABOUT 15 INCHES FROM THE FACE.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND YOU ADMINISTERED THAT TEST TO MR. KAELIN, DID YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE?

A: THERE WAS NO BOUNCE TO HIS EYES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I ENGAGED MR. KAELIN IN CONVERSATION WHILE THE FIRST -- I BELIEVE ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I ASKED HIM IS, "DO YOU MIND IF I LOOK AROUND?" HE REPLIED, "NO."

Q: NOW, WHERE WERE THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES AT THIS POINT?

A: THEY WERE DIRECTED TO ARNELLE'S ROOM AND I CAN ONLY ASSUME THEY WERE EAST OF MY LOCATION AT THAT PART OF THE BUNGALOWS.

Q: DID YOU AT ANY POINT ENTER MR. KAELIN'S ROOM?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU ASK HIS PERMISSION TO DO SO?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID HE LET YOU?

A: YES, HE DID.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THAT IS WHEN I ASKED HIM IF I COULD LOOK AROUND AND IF HE -- I ASKED IF HE WOULD MIND IF I LOOKED AROUND. HE SAID NO. AND I LOOKED INTO THE BATHROOM, INTO THE SHOWER AREA. I LOOKED INTO SOME TALL CLOSETS ON THE EAST WALL AND THEN I CAME BACK AND ENGAGED HIM IN A CONVERSATION ONCE AGAIN.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING FOR?

A: I WAS LOOKING AT PLACES WHERE SOMEONE COULD SECRET THEMSELVES, HIDE OR SOMEONE COULD PUT A HUMAN SIZED OBJECT.

Q: SO YOU WERE LOOKING FOR A PERSON POSSIBLY?

A: YES.

Q: A VICTIM OR WHAT?

A: WELL, I DIDN'T KNOW. BUT I DIDN'T PARTICULARLY CARE TO STAND -- I DIDN'T KNOW WHO MR. KAELIN WAS, AND JUST FOR THE SIMPLE FACT OF OFFICER SAFETY, I WANTED TO GET PERMISSION TO AT LEAST LOOK AT THE PLACES THAT SOMEONE COULD AT LEAST HIDE.

Q: UH-HUH. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I ASKED MR. KAELIN IF THE WHITE BRONCO IN FRONT -- WHO IT BELONGS TO, AND HE SAID IT WAS O.J.'S, AND I ASKED HIM IF HE DROVE IT LAST NIGHT. BUT I BELIEVE BEFORE HE ANSWERED THAT, I THINK I ASKED HIM ANOTHER QUESTION.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: IF ANYTHING UNUSUAL HAPPENED LAST NIGHT.

Q: NOW, DID YOU TELL HIM ABOUT THE CRIME SCENE YOU'D JUST COME FROM AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: NO. I TOLD HIM NOTHING ABOUT BUNDY OR ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT ANY OBSERVATIONS.

Q: WHY IS THAT?

A: I DIDN'T KNOW WHO MR. KAELIN WAS.

Q: AND WHAT DIFFERENCE DID THAT MAKE?

A: WELL, YOU WOULD NEVER DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT A CASE EXCEPT WITH THE DETECTIVES UNTIL YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHO IS INVOLVED IN THE CASE OR WHAT INFORMATION THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO ELICIT.

Q: KIND OF LIKE A STANDARD BEHAVIOR?

A: YES.

Q: ROUTINE THING? SO WHEN YOU ASKED HIM DID ANYTHING UNUSUAL HAPPEN THE NIGHT BEFORE, WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?

A: HE SAID ABOUT 10:45 P.M. THE PREVIOUS NIGHT, I BELIEVE HE SAID HE WAS TALKING ON THE PHONE. HE SAID HE HEARD A CRASH OR A THUMP ON HIS WALL. HE THOUGHT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN EARTHQUAKE AND HIS PICTURE SHOOK.

Q: AND DID HE POINT OUT TO THE PICTURE OR THE AREA ON THE WALL WHERE HE HEARD THAT CRASH?

A: YES.

Q: WHERE DID HE POINT TO?

A: HE POINTED TO A PICTURE TOWARDS THE RIGHT SIDE OF HIS BED, WHICH WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE OF HIS BED. HIS BED WAS -- THE HEAD WAS ON THE SOUTH WALL AND THE FOOT WAS AT THE NORTH END OF THE ROOM. THE --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT IS GOING TO BE SHOWN NOW I ASK BE MARKED PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, 109? 110.

THE COURT: 110.

(PEO'S 110 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: I BELIEVE THIS IS KATO'S ROOM, BUT THERE'S BEEN ITEMS REMOVED FROM THE ROOM.

Q: SO IT LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE WAY YOU SAW IT ON JUNE THE 13TH OF 1994?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, HAVE I SAT DOWN AND SHOWN YOU ANY PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: NO.

Q: SO IS THIS THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE SEEN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AND HOW IS IT DIFFERENT? HOW IS THE CONDITION OF THIS ROOM DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU OBSERVED ON JUNE THE 13TH?

A: THIS CHAIR THAT'S IN THE LEFT UPPER CORNER, I DON'T RECALL THAT CHAIR BEING THERE, THAT FRENCH PROVINCIAL LOOKING CHAIR. AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT OBJECT IS DIRECTLY TO THE LEFT OF THAT CHAIR, BUT I RECALL A DRESSER, A TALL MAN'S BUREAU TO BE THERE. THE AIR-CONDITIONER TO THE LEFT OF THE BED WAS IN THAT LOCATION. I CAN'T TELL IF THE PICTURE THAT WAS ON THE WALL IS OUT OF THE FOCUS OF THIS -- OR OUT OF THE PICTURE OR IF IT HAD BEEN REMOVED.

Q: OKAY. THE -- THE AREA ON THE WALL THAT HE POINTED TO AS WHERE HE FELT THE -- THAT CRASHING SOUND CAME FROM, CAN YOU SEE THAT IN THE PHOTOGRAPH HERE?

A: WELL, THE WAY HE DESCRIBED IT WAS BETWEEN THE AIR CONDITIONER AND THE PICTURE THAT WAS TO THE RIGHT OF THE AIR CONDITIONER WHICH WAS SOMEWHERE ABOVE THE BED TO THE RIGHT.

Q: OKAY. IF YOU WOULD PLEASE, SIR, DIRECT -- IF YOU CAN SEE THE SCREEN, CAN YOU DIRECT THE LIGHT? CAN YOU SEE THE LIGHT, THE LIGHT, THE LAZER LIGHT?

A: YES, I DO. GO UP WHERE THE LAMP IS, GO UP A LITTLE HIGHER, TO THE RIGHT, TO THE RIGHT, TO THE RIGHT. PROBABLY SOMEWHERE FROM THAT AREA TOWARDS THE PICTURE (INDICATING).

Q: RIGHT ABOUT THERE (INDICATING)?

A: HE JUST POINTED GENERALLY BEHIND HIS BED BETWEEN THE AIR CONDITIONER AND THE PICTURE. HE SAID HIS PICTURE SHROOK -- THE PICTURE SHOOK.

Q: AND WHERE WAS THE PICTURE, SIR?

A: IT WAS TO THE RIGHT I THINK CLOSE TO THE END OF THE BED. I'M NOT EXACTLY POSITIVE ON THE EXACT LOCATION OF THE PICTURE.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US IF IT WAS ABOVE THIS NIGHTSTAND AREA?

A: IT COULD HAVE BEEN. I --

Q: BUT IT WAS TO THE RIGHT -- IT WAS ON THE WALL TO THE RIGHT OF THE BED AS YOU FACE THE BED FROM THE --

A: YES.

Q: FROM THIS AREA?

A: IT WAS TO THE RIGHT OF THE AIR CONDITIONER SOMEWHERE CLOSE TO THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BED QUITE POSSIBLY ABOVE THAT NIGHTSTAND, YES.

Q: OKAY. THE AREA THAT I'M GESTURING WITH THE LIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US WHERE THE AIR CONDITIONER IS ON THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR? CAN YOU SEE IT?

A: WELL, IT'S -- THERE'S THAT BRIGHT AREA TO THE LEFT UPPER OF THE LAMP SHADE. THAT -- TO THE LEFT. THAT APPEARS TO BE THE OPEN DOOR TO THE BATHROOM ON MY SCREEN, AND THEN DIRECTLY TO THE RIGHT OF THAT, RIGHT THERE, THAT WOULD BE WHERE THE AIR CONDITIONER IS (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. SO WHERE THE LIGHT IS RIGHT NOW, THAT'S THE AIR CONDITIONER?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT IS THIS AREA IN HERE THAT I'M GESTURING TO WITH THE LIGHT?

A: THAT'S THE OPEN BATHROOM DOOR.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU HAPPEN TO OBSERVE WHETHER THERE WAS A WINDOW IN THE BATHROOM?

A: I DON'T RECALL IF THERE WAS A WINDOW.

Q: OKAY. NOW, DID MR. KAELIN TELL YOU WHAT TIME HE HEARD THAT CRASHING SOUND OVER HIS BED ON THE WALL OVER HIS BED?

A: HE SAID ABOUT 10:45 P.M.

Q: AND DID HE POINT OUT THE PICTURE THAT HE SAID MOVED WHEN HE HEARD THAT CRASHING SOUND OR THAT THUMPING SOUND?

A: HE POINTED OVER TOWARDS THE WALL, MADE A GESTURE AS HE WAS TALKING.

Q: AT ANY POINT, SIR, DID YOU SEARCH OR LOOK THROUGH ANYTHING IN MR. KAELIN'S ROOM?

A: YES. DIRECTLY TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BED WHICH WAS CLOSEST TO THE BATHROOM, THERE WAS A PILE OF CLOTHES AND A PAIR OF SHOES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THOSE?

A: I ASKED IF I COULD LOOK AT THEM. HE SAYS, "SURE."

Q: AND WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING FOR?

A: I DIDN'T KNOW. I WAS JUST LOOKING AT THEM. THERE WAS NOTHING ON THE CLOTHES THAT APPEARED TO BE ANYTHING THAT I WAS CONCERNED WITH. I LOOKED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SOLES OF THE SHOES. THERE DIDN'T APPEAR TO BE ANYTHING ON IT. I PUT THEM BACK IN THEIR ORIGINAL POSITION.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU LOOKING -- WHAT DID YOU EXPECT TO FIND OR WHAT DID YOU THINK YOU MIGHT FIND ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SHOES?

A: I DIDN'T KNOW, BUT I WAS LOOKING TO SEE IF THERE WAS POSSIBLY ANY BLOOD ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SHOES OR DIRT OR THE SOLE DESIGN.

Q: UH-HUH. DID YOU ASK HIM WHETHER -- MR. KAELIN WHETHER HE HAD BEEN WEARING THOSE SHOES AND THAT CLOTHING THE NIGHT BEFORE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?

A: HE SAID, "YES, THOSE ARE THE CLOTHES I WORE LAST NIGHT."

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU FIND ON THE SOLES OF THOSE SHOES?

A: NOTHING.

Q: AND ON THE CLOTHES?

A: NOTHING.

Q: OKAY. AFTER LOOKING THROUGH THE CLOTHES AND THE SHOES, SIR, DID YOU HAVE SOME FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: YES. WELL, MR. KAELIN OFFERED -- HE DESCRIBED THAT WHEN HE HEARD THAT NOISE, INITIALLY THOUGHT IT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE, BUT NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED. SO HE WENT OUT TO INVESTIGATE.

Q: DID HE TELL YOU WHERE HE WENT TO INVESTIGATE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID HE TELL YOU ABOUT THAT?

A: HE WENT AROUND THE NORTH SIDE PAST THE POOL, NORTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE AND WALKED THE SAME PATHWAY THAT WE HAD USED TO APPROACH HIS -- HIS ROOM.

Q: AND THEN WHAT?

A: HE SAID HE SAW A LIMO IN THE DRIVEWAY AND THEN HE PROCEEDED TOWARDS THE AREA WHERE HE WAS GOING TO INVESTIGATE, BUT HE DIDN'T DESCRIBE ANYTHING ANY FARTHER.

Q: NOW, THE AREA ON THE WALL WHERE HE INDICATED HE HEARD THE THUMPS, COULD YOU TELL WHERE THAT -- THE EXTERIOR OF THAT POINT WOULD BE ON THE PROPERTY?

A: NO.

Q: AND DID HE TELL YOU HOW TO GET TO THAT POINT ON THE EXTERIOR PART OF THE PROPERTY?

A: NO, HE DIDN'T.

Q: SO AFTER HE TOLD YOU THAT HE HAD GONE OUT TO INVESTIGATE THE THUMPS AND GOTTEN TO THE DRIVEWAY AND SEEN THE LIMO DRIVER, DID HE TELL YOU WHERE HE WENT AFTER THAT POINT?

A: I DON'T RECALL THAT HE DID, NO.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I ASKED MR. KAELIN IF HE WOULD COME WITH ME, AND WE EXITED HIS ROOM AND I LOOKED TOWARDS THE MAIN HOUSE AND I SAW THERE WAS AN OPEN DOOR, THE REAR OFF THE PATIO.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US -- CAN YOU SHOW US, SIR, THE PATH THAT YOU TOOK ON THE DIAGRAM MARKED PEOPLE'S 66 IN THE COMPANY OF MR. KAELIN?

A: YES. WE EXITED MR. KAELIN'S ROOM. WE WALKED UP THESE STAIRS, WENT TOWARDS THE MAIN HOUSE, PROBABLY THESE STAIRS RIGHT HERE. THERE'S A DOOR RIGHT HERE THAT WAS PARTIALLY OPEN (INDICATING). I BELIEVE IT HAD A SCREEN ON IT ALSO. WALKED INTO THAT DOOR. IT LED INTO A BAR AREA JUST TO THE LEFT OF A BILLIARD TABLE THAT YOU STEP DOWN INTO.

Q: AND WERE THE OTHER -- WHERE WERE THE OTHER DETECTIVES?

A: I DIDN'T KNOW. I HAD NOT SEEN THIS DOOR OPEN PRIOR. SO I ASSUMED THAT THEY WERE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE.

Q: AND THE DOOR, WAS IT STANDING -- THAT REAR DOOR, WAS IT STANDING OPEN WHEN YOU WENT IN WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU ASK FOR HIS ASSISTANCE IN FIGURING OUT HOW TO GET INTO THE HOUSE OR WAS THAT OBVIOUS TO YOU?

A: I MIGHT HAVE. BUT I NOTICED THE DOOR -- MR. KAELIN COULD HAVE -- COULD HAVE LED ME THERE. I'M NOT POSITIVE WHICH WAY THAT WENT.

Q: SO YOU WALKED IN THROUGH THE REAR DOOR?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT WAS WITH MR. KAELIN?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID HAPPEN NEXT AFTER YOU ENTERED THE HOUSE?

A: WHEN I FIRST WALKED IN, I NOTICED THIS AREA, YOU STEP DOWN WHERE THERE'S A LARGE BILLIARD TABLE AND THEN DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF WHERE WE CAME IN, THERE'S A BAR AREA WITH FOUR OR FIVE BAR STOOLS. AND I ASKED MR. KAELIN TO SIT IN ONE OF THOSE STOOLS AND RELAX AND SOMEBODY WOULD TALK TO HIM IN A MINUTE.

Q: GO AHEAD AND HAVE A SEAT. NOW, AT THAT POINT, HAD YOU ASKED MR. KAELIN WHERE MR. SIMPSON WAS OR WHERE HE COULD BE FOUND?

A: I DIDN'T ASK HIM ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT ANY FURTHER.

Q: DID HE VOLUNTEER ANY INFORMATION AS TO WHERE THE DEFENDANT WAS?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU HAVE ANY IDEA AT THAT POINT WHETHER THE DEFENDANT WAS HOME OR OUT OF TOWN OR WHAT HIS WHEREABOUTS WERE?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHERE THE -- WHAT TIME THE DEFENDANT HAD COME OR GONE FROM HIS RESIDENCE THAT NIGHT?

A: NO.

Q: AND DID YOU EVER OBTAIN AN ANSWER TO THE INITIAL QUESTION YOU ASKED MR. KAELIN ABOUT WHETHER THE BRONCO, THE WHITE BRONCO BELONGED TO MR. SIMPSON?

A: I BELIEVE HE SAID THAT'S THE VEHICLE HE DRIVES.

Q: AND WAS THAT IN RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION INITIALLY POSED?

A: YES.

Q: OR WAS THAT A LATER CONVERSATION?

A: THAT WAS INITIALLY.

Q: AFTER YOU GOT -- YOU PUT KATO -- YOU GOT -- YOU TOOK KATO TO THE BAR AREA, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I LEFT HIM AT THAT LOCATION AND I TRIED TO FIND WHERE THE DETECTIVE -- THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES HAD WALKED TO.

Q: DID YOU FIND THEM?

A: I WALKED TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR. THERE'S A HALLWAY TYPE AREA. AND AS I WALKED PAST THERE, THERE WAS AN OPEN DOORWAY, AND I SAW ALL THREE DETECTIVES IN THE KITCHEN AREA.

Q: OKAY. SO DID YOU WALK -- DID YOU WALK THROUGH THE KITCHEN AREA OR THROUGH THE LIVING ROOM AREA?

A: I THINK IT'S THE LIVING ROOM AREA THAT THERE'S A HALLWAY THAT ACCESSES THE KITCHEN THROUGH A SMALL DOORWAY THAT YOU WOULD HAVE TO TURN LEFT, BUT THE HALLWAY GOES SOMEWHAT DIRECTLY TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR.

Q: UH-HUH.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: NEXT PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, WILL BE PEOPLE'S 110.

THE CLERK: 111.

MS. CLARK: 111?

THE COURT: 111.

(PEO'S 111 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT SHOWING YOU THESE PHOTOGRAPHS AHEAD OF TIME SO YOU COULD ORIENT YOURSELF, BUT DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 11?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: OKAY. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES. JUST OFF CENTER IN THE UPPER LEFT CORNER AREA, YOU SEE AN OPEN DOOR. THAT'S THE REAR DOOR I WAS SPEAKING OF COMING FROM THE PATIO AREA. THERE'S SEVERAL FRAMED PHOTOGRAPHS YOU CAN SEE TO THE RIGHT OF THAT DOORWAY THAT WOULD BE LEADING DOWN INTO THE BILLIARD AREA. THERE'S A LARGE PICTURE DIRECTLY TO THE LEFT OF THAT. I BELIEVE THAT WAS A LARGE NEIMAN THAT WAS AT THE SOUTH WALL OF THE BILLIARD ROOM. THE BAR AREA IS WHERE ALL THE CHAIRS ARE TO THE RIGHT, RIGHT CORNER OF THIS. AND IF YOU WALK DIRECTLY PAST THAT BAR AREA GOING TO THE RIGHT OF THE PICTURE, YOU WOULD BE GOING DOWN THE HALLWAY THAT WOULD LET YOU SEE THE DOORWAY THAT LEADS INTO THE KITCHEN.

Q: OKAY. IF YOU WOULD DIRECT THE LIGHT I'M GOING TO BE SHINING ON THE SCREEN NOW. CAN YOU SEE THE LIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: TELL ME WHERE TO GO. WHERE IS THE BAR AREA HERE?

A: STRAIGHT UP, RIGHT THERE. THERE'S THE BAR STOOLS. IT WAS -- THEY'RE BAR STOOLS THAT SIT AT A NORMAL LEVEL OF A CHAIR, NOT AN ELEVATED BAR STOOL.

Q: AND IS THAT THE BAR AREA THAT YOU BROUGHT MR. KAELIN INTO?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND THEN OVER HERE, THIS IS THE DOOR YOU WERE SPEAKING OF THAT YOU TWO ENTERED, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: AND AFTER YOU PUT HIM HERE AT THE -- SEATED HIM AT THE BAR HERE, WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: DIRECTLY -- USE YOUR POINTER AND GO DIRECTLY TO THE RIGHT PAST -- THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT WALL THAT YOU'RE NOW TOUCHING WOULD BE THE HALLWAY THAT LEADS TO THE NORTH SIDE OF THE KITCHEN.

Q: OKAY. AND TO THE FRONT DOOR AREA?

A: YES.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, ARE YOU GOING TO BE USING 66 ANY LONGER?

MS. CLARK: I WAS GOING TO, BUT I DON'T HAVE TO.

THE COURT: NO, NO, NO, NO. GO AHEAD.

MS. CLARK: IT'S BLOCKING YOUR VIEW, IS IT?

THE COURT: NO. IT'S ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD. I WAS JUST WONDERING, IF YOU WEREN'T GOING TO USE IT ANYMORE, LET'S TAKE IT DOWN. BUT IF YOU PLAN TO USE IT AGAIN, BE MY GUEST.

MS. CLARK: I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR I'M GOING TO GET. THAT'S WHY -- TO SAVE TIME, I WAS LEAVING IT THERE. BUT I WILL USE IT AGAIN.

THE COURT: NO. YEAH.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S 112.

THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 112.

(PEO'S 112 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 112, SIR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT LOCATION THAT IS?

A: YES. THAT'S THE INTERIOR OF THE FRONT DOOR THAT FACES WEST.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU EXIT THROUGH THAT DOOR, SIR, WHEN YOU INDICATED TO US EARLIER THAT YOU WENT DOWN A HALLWAY TOWARD THE FRONT DOOR?

A: YES.

Q: THAT'S THE ONE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT THAT POINT, YOU HAD SEEN THAT THE OTHER THREE DETECTIVES WERE IN THE KITCHEN?

A: YES.

Q: AND COULD YOU SEE WHAT THEY WERE DOING IN THERE?

A: I BELIEVE ONE DETECTIVE WAS ON THE PHONE, THAT DETECTIVE NOT BEING VANNATTER. I BELIEVE PHILLIPS WAS ON THE PHONE, BUT I CAN'T BE POSITIVE ABOUT THAT.

Q: DID YOU HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS OR DETECTIVE LANGE BEFORE LEAVING THE FRONT DOOR?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT WAS THE -- YOU SPOKE TO DETECTIVE -- YOU WERE WITH DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, LANGE AND VANNATTER AT THE POINT THAT YOU FIRST WENT TO MR. KAELIN'S ROOM I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS THAT THE LAST TIME THAT YOU SPOKE TO THEM OR YOU WERE WITH THEM BEFORE YOU WENT OUT THE FRONT DOOR? DID YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH THEM BEFORE LEAVING KATO IN THE BAR AND GOING OUT THE FRONT DOOR?

A: YES. I MADE A COMMENT TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER.

Q: UH-HUH. AND WHAT WAS THAT COMMENT, SIR?

A: SAID, "PHIL, WOULD YOU TALK TO THIS GUY AT THE BAR?"

Q: AND OTHER THAN THAT, DID YOU HAVE ANY CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE VANNATTER, DETECTIVE LANGE OR DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A: NO, NOT AT THAT TIME.

Q: SO AFTER THAT REMARK TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER, YOU WENT OUT THE FRONT DOOR?

A: YES.

Q: AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE DID YOU DO THAT?

A: I WAS TRYING TO ORIENT MYSELF FROM WHERE THIS SOUTH WALL OF KATO'S BEDROOM COULD BE LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED EARLIER, SIR, THAT WHEN YOU LOOKED INSIDE THE REAR CARGO AREA OF THE BRONCO, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US A SHOVEL AND A PIECE OF PLASTIC. DO YOU RECALL THAT, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 109.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU RECALL THAT PHOTOGRAPH YOU EARLIER DESCRIBED FOR US?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND THAT SHOVEL?

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE WHAT I WOULD LIKE MARKED PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, BE PEOPLE'S 1 --

THE COURT: 113.

MS. CLARK: 113. THANK YOU. IT'S WRAPPED IN A PAPER BAG.

(PEO'S 113 FOR ID = SHOVEL)

MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO UNSEAL IT IF I COULD, YOUR HONOR, AND HAVE THE WITNESS IDENTIFY IT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU WANT TO DO IT OR --

A: GO AHEAD.

MS. CLARK: I'M JUST GOING TO CUT THROUGH -- IT APPEARS TO BE CURRENTLY SEALED WITH TAPE WITH AN ANALYZED EVIDENCE MARKER ON IT, SID MARKER ON IT. IT'S I BELIEVE BEEN EXAMINED. AND FOR THE RECORD, I'M CUTTING THROUGH THE SEAL AND THE TAPE. I THINK RATHER THAN TAKING THIS COMPLETELY OUT, I'M JUST GOING TO TEAR THIS SO THAT IT CAN BE SEEN.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT I'M SHOWING YOU HERE, PEOPLE'S 113?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT IS IT?

A: THAT LOOKS LIKE THE SHOVEL THAT I SAW IN THE REAR CARGO AREA OF THE BRONCO.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU WANT TO HOLD IT UP SO THE JURY CAN SEE IT, SIR, TAKE A LOOK AT IT?

A: (THE WITNESS COMPLIES.)

Q: THANK YOU. AND NOW, YOU ALSO DESCRIBED A PIECE OF PLASTIC THAT YOU SAW IN THE POCKET ON THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE CARGO AREA?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: IN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S NOW ON THE SCREEN, PEOPLE'S 109, DO YOU SEE A WHITE OBJECT UNDERNEATH THE HANDLE OF THE SHOVEL, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: I DO NOT KNOW.

Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING IT THERE THOUGH?

A: I WAS LOOKING FROM THAT SIDE OF THE VEHICLE. SO I MIGHT NOT HAVE EVEN SEEN THAT WHITE OBJECT. MIGHT HAVE BEEN OUT OF MY VIEW.

MS. CLARK: I HAVE HERE A BOX THAT --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU WANT TO MARK THE BOX AND CONTENTS 114?

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(PEO'S 114 FOR ID = BOX AND CONTENTS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SHOWING YOU THE BOX THAT'S NOW BEEN MARKED PEOPLE'S 114. GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO CUT IT, BREAK THE SEAL.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, THE BOX IS CURRENTLY TAPED AND THERE'S AN LAPD SEALED EVIDENCE TAG THAT IS UNBROKEN OVER THE TOP OF IT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU COULD PLEASE GO AHEAD CUT IT AND DESCRIBE YOUR ACTIONS AS YOU DO, SIR.

A: I'M CUTTING THE TAPE ON BOTH ENDS OF THE BOX. I'M NOW CUTTING THE CENTER OF THE TAPE THAT'S GOING OVER THE ANALYZED EVIDENCE SEAL.

THE COURT: WHY DON'T WE GIVE THE SHOVEL TO THE CLERK.

THE WITNESS: I'M OPENING THE BOX AND I -- THERE'S A BROWN PAPER BAG WITH AN L.A. EVIDENCE SEAL.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IS THERE A NUMBER ON IT?

A: NO. 62 AND ANOTHER ONE, NO. -- PHOTO 64 -- I AM SORRY AND PHOTO 62.

Q: THOSE ARE PHOTO I.D. NUMBERS, SIR?

A: YES, AND THERE'S AN ITEM I BELIEVE 91 AND AN ITEM 93.

Q: NOW, YOU DESCRIBED TO US SOME PLASTIC THAT YOU SAW, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU -- THIS ITEM THAT HAS THE NUMBER ITEM NO. 93 ON IT, PHOTO NO. 64 ON IT, IS IT CURRENTLY SEALED?

A: YES, IT IS. LAPD SEALED EVIDENCE.

Q: COULD YOU PLEASE CUT THE SEAL?

A: YES. CUTTING THE SEAL ON THE PACKAGE. I'M OPENING THE PACKAGE AND REMOVING A FOLDED PIECE OF HEAVY GAUGE PLASTIC.

Q: COULD YOU PLEASE UNFOLD THE PLASTIC, SIR?

A: YES.

THE COURT: YOU WANT TO STAND UP AND DO IT?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. IT APPEARS TO BE A BAG THAT'S APPROXIMATELY THREE FOOT BY FOUR OR FIVE FEET.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND IS THAT THE PLASTIC THAT YOU RECALL SEEING IN THE REAR CARGO AREA?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AND WAS IT FOLDED UP AT THE TIME YOU SAW IT, SIR?

A: YES, IT WAS.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. FOR THE RECORD, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IS NOW REFOLDING THE PLASTIC, PLACED IT ON TOP OF THE BOX.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: THERE IS ANOTHER BAG INSIDE THIS BOX, SIR. I'M GOING TO BRING IT OVER TO YOU. IS IT CURRENTLY SEALED?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: COULD YOU PLEASE CUT THE SEAL, DESCRIBE YOUR ACTIONS AS YOU DO SO?

A: I'M CUTTING THE SEAL ON ITEM NO. 91, UNFOLDING THE PAPER BAG AND REMOVING A WHITE TOWEL.

Q: DOES THAT LOOK SIMILAR TO THE OBJECT DEPICTED IN PEOPLE'S PHOTOGRAPH NUMBER 109?

A: YES.

Q: WOULD YOU PLEASE REPLACE THE -- HOLD THE TOWEL UP, SHOW THE JURY? THANK YOU. PUT IT BACK IN THE BAG.

A: (THE WITNESS COMPLIES.)

MS. CLARK: LASTLY, YOUR HONOR, I HAVE AN ITEM HERE THAT I WOULD LIKE MARKED PEOPLE'S 115.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 115.

(PEO'S 115 FOR ID = PIECE OF WOOD)

MS. CLARK: IT'S CURRENTLY WRAPPED UP IN BROWN PAPER AND IT APPEARS TO BE SEALED, AND IT BEARS THE DR NUMBER 940817431.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIR, IS THAT THE -- IF YOU KNOW, IS THAT THE SAME NUMBER THAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE BAG THAT YOU'VE JUST REPLACED THE TOWEL BACK INTO?

A: YES. IT'S THE SAME DR NUMBER.

Q: AND IS THAT THE SAME DR NUMBER THAT YOU SEE ON THE BAG THAT YOU REMOVED THE PLASTIC FROM?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AND ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THAT MEANS, WHAT'S A DR NUMBER?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT IS THAT?

A: THAT'S THE NUMBER THAT'S ASSIGNED TO THE VICTIM OF ANY CRIME OR A REPORT NUMBER.

Q: OKAY. AND SO ARE ALL ITEMS THEN BOOKED TO THAT SAME NUMBER IN THAT CASE?

A: YES.

Q: AND ON THE PACKAGE YOU NOW HAVE THAT WE'VE MARKED PEOPLE'S 115, YOU SEE THAT SAME NUMBER?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: COULD YOU PLEASE OPEN THAT PACKAGE, SIR, DESCRIBE WHAT YOU'RE DOING FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE?

A: I'M CUTTING THE BROWN TAPE ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE EVIDENCE TAG, UNROLLING THE BROWN PAPER. THERE'S ANOTHER WHITE PAPER ALSO. IT HAS LAPD ANALYZED EVIDENCE SEALS ON IT WITH THE DR 940817431. CUTTING THROUGH THOSE SEALS.

Q: AND CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU SEE HERE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT IS IT?

A: THAT'S THE PIECE OF WOOD THAT I FOUND TO THE LEFT OF THE WHITE FRONT TIRE OF THE BRONCO THAT WAS LYING ON THE PARKWAY.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER 107.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WILL YOU LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU SEE THE ITEM THAT YOU'VE JUST UNWRAPPED THAT WE'VE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 115 IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: I DO.

Q: AND WHERE IS IT?

A: IT IS DIRECTLY TO THE LEFT OF THE RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF THE BRONCO.

Q: AND CAN YOU PLEASE -- HOLD IT UP FOR THE JURY AND TELL US IF THERE'S ANY DIFFERENCE IN ITS APPEARANCE TODAY THAN YOU -- THAN IN THE WAY YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU SAW IT ON JUNE THE 13TH?

A: THE -- YES. THERE'S A PIECE OF PLASTIC OVER AN EXPOSED NAIL AND THE WHITE PAINT SEEMS TO BE SOILED WITH FINGERPRINT POWDER AND THE WOOD PROBABLY IS JUST SLIGHTLY LESS FRESH APPEARING THAN IT WAS THE DAY I OBSERVED IT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO CONCLUDE FOR THE MORNING SESSION. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU FOR YOUR DECISION, ALSO, DO NOT ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU REGARDING THE CASE. WE WILL SEE YOU MONDAY MORNING 9:00 A.M. ALL RIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE -- I WOULD LIKE THE ATTORNEYS TO REMAIN AFTER WE HAVE EXCUSED THE JURY. I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT SOME DISCOVERY AND OTHER MATTERS. ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU MAY STEP DOWN. YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN MONDAY MORNING AT 9:00 A.M. THANK YOU, SIR.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: COUNSEL, WHY DON'T YOU BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, WITH REGARD TO THE VIDEOTAPE ISSUE, MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT SIMILAR ISSUES OR WHAT ACTUALLY APPEAR TO BE IDENTICAL ISSUES HAVE BEEN REFERRED TO JUDGE CURTIS RAPPE IN DEPARTMENT 127 FOR HIS EVALUATION. MR. COCHRAN, YOU RAISED THE ISSUE EARLIER. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CONTENT OF THAT VIDEOTAPE?

MR. COCHRAN: NO, I'M NOT. I WAS TOLD BY MISS LEWIS THIS MORNING ABOUT THE VIDEOTAPE, AND WHEN WE WERE LEAVING YESTERDAY, AS WE WERE GETTING IN THE CAR, SOME PEOPLE WERE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT. THAT'S ALL I KNOW.

THE COURT: IT APPEARS TO BE THE SAME AS WE DISCUSSED -- THE SAME ISSUE WE DISCUSSED ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO. BUT IN ANY EVENT, WHAT I'M GOING TO DO IS GIVE YOU THE VIDEOTAPE, OR IF YOU WANT, YOU CAN SEE IT IN MY CHAMBERS, SEE WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT. IF YOU WANT TO ASK JUDGE RAPPE FOR A HEARING, WE'LL NOTIFY DEPARTMENT 127.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. DARDEN: THAT'S OUR COPY.

THE COURT: LET ME SHOW IT TO DEFENSE COUNSEL BECAUSE YOU'VE SEEN IT. THEY CAN SEE IF THEY WANT TO ASK FOR A HEARING OR IF EITHER SIDE WANTS TO ASK FOR A HEARING. THEN FOR DISCOVERY MATTERS, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE COUNSEL IN CHAMBERS. ANYTHING ELSE?

MR. BAILEY: WE CAN TAKE IT UP HERE, BUT WE THINK WE ARE ENTITLED UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES TO ANY NOTES OR OTHER RECORDS OF THE SESSIONS DESCRIBED BY DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AT THE OUTSET OF HIS TESTIMONY WHERE HE WAS BEING FRAMED OR GRILLED OR SOMETHING ON THE ISSUES OF --

THE COURT: WELL, THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE. FIRST I WANT TO TAKE UP THE 1054 .7 MATTER WITH YOU, THE SHOWING THAT YOU PRESENTED TO THE COURT THIS MORNING. WE'LL TAKE THAT MATTER UP.

MR. BAILEY: FINE.

THE COURT: THANK YOU. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS. THANK YOU.

(AT 12:05 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN UNTIL, MONDAY, MARCH 13, 1995.)

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, )
)
PLAINTIFF, )
)
) VS. ) NO. BA097211
)
ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
)
)
DEFENDANT. )

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

FRIDAY, MARCH 10, 1995
VOLUME 104

PAGES 18179 THROUGH 18307, INCLUSIVE
(PAGES 18308 THROUGH 18332, INCLUSIVE, SEALED)

APPEARANCES: (SEE PAGE 2)

JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR #4588
CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR #2378 OFFICIAL REPORTERS

APPEARANCES:

FOR THE PEOPLE: GIL GARCETTI, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
BY: MARCIA R. CLARK, WILLIAM W.
HODGMAN, CHRISTOPHER A. DARDEN,
CHERI A. LEWIS, ROCKNE P. HARMON,
GEORGE W. CLARKE, SCOTT M. GORDON
LYDIA C. BODIN, HANK M. GOLDBERG,
ALAN YOCHELSON AND DARRELL S.
MAVIS, DEPUTIES
18-000 CRIMINAL COURTS BUILDING
210 WEST TEMPLE STREET
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90012

FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT L. SHAPIRO, ESQUIRE
SARA L. CAPLAN, ESQUIRE
2121 AVENUE OF THE STARS
19TH FLOOR
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90067

JOHNNIE L. COCHRAN, JR., ESQUIRE
BY: CARL E. DOUGLAS, ESQUIRE
SHAWN SNIDER CHAPMAN, ESQUIRE
4929 WILSHIRE BOULEVARD
SUITE 1010
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90010

GERALD F. UELMEN, ESQUIRE
ROBERT KARDASHIAN, ESQUIRE
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ESQUIRE
F. LEE BAILEY, ESQUIRE
BARRY SCHECK, ESQUIRE
ROBERT D. BLASIER, ESQUIRE

I N D E X

INDEX FOR VOLUME 104 PAGES 18179 - 18307

-----------------------------------------------------

DAY DATE SESSION PAGE VOL.

FRIDAY MARCH 10, 1995 A.M. 18179 104

-----------------------------------------------------

LEGEND:

MS. CLARK - MC
MR. HODGMAN - H
MR. DARDEN D
MR. KAHN - K
MR. GOLDBERG - GB
MR. GORDON - G
MR. SHAPIRO - S
MR. COCHRAN - C
MR. DOUGLAS - CD
MR. BAILEY - B
MR. UELMEN - U
MR. SCHECK - BS
MR. NEUFELD - N

-----------------------------------------------------

CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES

PEOPLE'S
WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL.

FUHRMAN, MARK 104 (RESUMED) 18187MC

-------------------------------------------------------

ALPHABETICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES

PEOPLE'S
WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL.

FUHRMAN, MARK 104 (RESUMED) 18187MC

EXHIBITS

PEOPLE'S FOR IN EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE
PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.

105 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 18216 104
CRIMINALIST DENNIS FUNG POINTING TO A GATE AT
THE CRIME SCENE

106 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 18219 104
A RED SPOT ON A GATE AT THE CRIME SCENE WITH AN
LAPD RULER

107 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 18246 104
THE RIGHT SIDE OF A WHITE BRONCO VEHICLE

108 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 18247 104
A PIECE OF WOOD ON GRASS WITH AN LAPD RULER

109 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 18256 104
THE INTERIOR OF A VEHICLE WITH A SHOVEL AND
BOXES

110 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 18282 104
THE GUEST ROOM AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM

111 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 18292 104
THE FAMILY ROOM AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM

112 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 18295 104
THE FOYER AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM

113 - SHOVEL 18298 104

114 - BROWN BOX WITH 18300 104
TWO BROWN PAPER BAGS; ONE CONTAINING A HEAVY
PLASTIC BAG AND THE OTHER CONTAINING A WHITE
TOWEL

115 - PIECE OF WOOD 18303 104

??