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LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, MARCH 3, 1995 9:10 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.) (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL. BACK ON THE RECORD. EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. MR. SHAPIRO: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THE DEFENDANT IS PRESENT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK, MR. DARDEN, MISS LEWIS. THANK YOU. ARE WE MISSING SOMEBODY? MR. BAILEY: I CAN'T REMEMBER HIS NAME. MS. LEWIS: MR. COCHRAN. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN. MR. SHAPIRO, IS MR. COCHRAN ANYWHERE TO BE FOUND? MR. SHAPIRO: YES, HE IS IN THE BACK, YOUR HONOR. SHOULD I GO GET HIM? THE COURT: OH, OKAY. MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, WE ARE ASKING FOR AN EXTRA MOMENT ON BEHALF OF MISS HAMBURGER. MS. HAMBURGER: THE INTERPRETERS WERE NOT ASKED TO COME BACK. WE HAVE BEEN SITTING IN THE BACK WAITING FOR AN INTERPRETER, YOUR HONOR, AND WE JUST GOT THE INTERPRETER. THE COURT: HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU NEED, MISS HAMBURGER? MS. HAMBURGER: JUST A FEW MOMENTS. THE COURT: IS THAT REALISTIC? MS. HAMBURGER: THAT IS REALISTIC. THE COURT: WELL, IN THE MEANTIME, MR. DARDEN -- ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN, GOOD MORNING. ARE WE READY TO GO? MR. COCHRAN: READY. THE COURT: ARE WE READY? MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR, IF I CAN HAVE A CHAIR. THE COURT: WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CHAIRS. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, MR. COCHRAN, WOULD YOU APPROACH, PLEASE. (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) THE COURT: MADAM INTERPRETER, WOULD YOU APPROACH, PLEASE. (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) THE COURT: DEPUTY JEX, YOU NEED TO MAINTAIN SOME QUIET IN THE COURTROOM IF YOU DON'T MIND. DEPUTY JEX: OKAY. (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, SO IT DOESN'T GET LOST IN THE HOUSEKEEPING, DOES THE COURT WANT TO ISSUE AND HOLD A BENCH WARRANT TODAY FOR MISS THOMPSON? THE COURT: AS FAR AS THE MARGUERITE THOMPSON MATTER, WHAT DATE ARE YOU ASKING FOR? MS. LEWIS: THOMAS. I MISSPOKE AND THE COURT REPEATED MY STATEMENT. THE COURT: WHAT DATE ARE YOU ASKING FOR? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) THE COURT: I WOULD SUGGEST APRIL 1ST. MS. LEWIS: APRIL FOOL'S DAY? THE COURT: APRIL 3RD? MR. COCHRAN: MAKE IT MARCH 31ST, YOUR HONOR. MS. CLARK: MARCH 31ST. THE COURT: MARCH 31ST. ALL RIGHT. MR. JONES, DO YOU HAVE MARCH 31ST AVAILABLE ON YOUR CALENDAR? MR. JONES: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ISSUED AND HELD UNTIL MARCH 31ST. MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: YES. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. YOUR HONOR, I HAVE RECEIVED A LETTER FROM A VINCENT C. GILLIAM, A PH.D., OF WHICH WE ALSO RECEIVED ONE AND A NUMBER OF OTHER CALLS, AND FOR THE RECORD, IF THE COURT WOULD ALLOW ME TO, I WOULD LIKE TO READ A PARAGRAPH FROM THAT LETTER AND I WOULD ASK THE COURT FOR PERMISSION TO GET AN INTERPRETATION FROM THE INTERPRETERS. THE COURT: YOU MEAN A COMMENT? MR. COCHRAN: YES, I'M SORRY, A COMMENT. THIS IS FROM THE LETTER. "FIRST, A POINT THAT MAY EASILY BE LOST TO AMERICANS IS THE DIFFERENCE IN CULTURES BEING MANIFESTED BY MISS LOPEZ' RESPONSES. NOT ONLY DOES SHE DISPLAY A TENDENCY TO DEFER SOMEWHAT MEEKLY TO PEOPLE IN AUTHORITY, (MR. DARDEN) BY SAYING, QUOTE, 'IF YOU SAY SO, SIR,' AS ONE MIGHT SUSPECT FROM SOMEONE FROM A HUMBLE BACKGROUND AND FROM EL SALVADOR AT THAT, BUT SPANISH-SPEAKING CULTURES ARE MUCH MORE SUBTLE THAN ONE SUCH AS THE U.S. THUS, WHEN MISS LOPEZ SAYS, 'NO,' AND THEN 'NO, I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING SAID THAT, SIR,' WITH FURTHER PRODDING, IT IS NOT AN EQUIVOCAL RESPONSE, NOR IS IT PREVARICATING THAT SHE CHANGE HER RESPONSE. IT IS SIMPLY THAT COMES FROM A MORE INDIRECT AND LESS CONFRONTATIONAL TYPE OF CULTURE. AND MORAL IMPORTANTLY, QUOTE, 'NO, I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING SAID THAT,' END QUOTE, DOES NOT MEAN, 'POSSIBLY YES' AS MR. DARDEN WAS ATTEMPTING TO MAKE IT MEAN." WE RECEIVED A NUMBER -- A NUMBER OF CALLS, AND JUST BEFORE I CAME OUT I WAS JUST TALKING TO ONE OF THE INTERPRETERS ABOUT THAT, AND AT SIDE BAR I MENTIONED IT TO THE OTHER INTERPRETER, AND I WOULD ASK THE COURT IF THE COURT COULD OBTAIN A COMMENT FROM EITHER ONE OR BOTH OF THE INTERPRETERS, IF THEY WANT TO CONFER, WITH REGARD TO THIS, BECAUSE I THINK IN FAIRNESS TO THE WITNESS WE NEED TO AT LEAST ESTABLISH WHAT THIS MEANS, BECAUSE UNDOUBTEDLY THERE WILL BE TESTIMONY WITH REGARD TO THIS AT SOME POINT. THE COURT: I HAVE TO TELL YOU I DON'T FIND A LETTER FAXED TO THE COURT TO BE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, FRANKLY. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS PERSON'S QUALIFICATIONS ARE. IT IS AN ISSUE, IF YOU WANT TO PURSUE IT LATER, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO DO SO. IF YOU WANT TO HAVE DR. RHEINOFF FROM UCLA OR SOMEBODY FROM USC COME IN AND TALK TO US, WE CAN DO THAT, BUT LETTERS FAXED TO THE COURT WITHOUT ANY SUBSTANTIAL BACKGROUND, I AM NOT WILLING TO GIVE MUCH CREDENCE TO IT. IT IS AN ISSUE, IF YOU WANT TO RAISE IT LATER. MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD, YOUR HONOR, AND PERHAPS RAISE IT ON REDIRECT ALSO. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE RESUME? MR. DOUGLAS: BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR, FOR THE RECORD. THE COURT: YES. MR. DOUGLAS: I TURNED OVER TO MR. DARDEN TWO VIDEOTAPES WHICH CONTAIN SOME FOOTAGE THAT WE MY INTEND USE IN THE FUTURE. WE WANTED TO GIVE THEM A FULL OPPORTUNITY TO EXAMINE WHAT IT IS WE HAVE IN OUR POSSESSION. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHAT IS THE SUBJECT OF THESE TWO VIDEOTAPES? MR. DOUGLAS: CRIME SCENE FOOTAGE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN: MAY I INQUIRE, YOUR HONOR? ARE THESE TWO VIDEOTAPES YOU INTEND TO USE WITH DETECTIVE LANGE? MR. DOUGLAS: NOT NECESSARILY LANGE, BUT PERHAPS WITH OTHER WITNESSES, BUT PERHAPS WITH LANGE AS WELL, BUT NOT NECESSARILY. MR. DARDEN: DOES THAT MEAN YES OR NO? THE COURT: IT MEANS MAYBE. IT MEANS YOU SHOULD ANTICIPATE YES. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, MISS LOPEZ. THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING, SIR. ROSA MARIA LOPEZ, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS: THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. DARDEN, YOU MAY RESUME WITH YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION. MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. DARDEN: Q: GOOD MORNING, MISS LOPEZ. A: GOOD MORNING, SIR. Q: MISS LOPEZ, WHEN YOU LEFT THE COURT LAST NIGHT DID YOU LEAVE IN A LIMOUSINE? A: NO, SIR. Q: WHAT TYPE OF VEHICLE DID YOU LEAVE IN? A: I THINK IT WAS IN MR. BILLEN'S (SIC) CAR. Q: WHAT COLOR WAS THAT CAR? A: I THINK IT WAS BLACK. Q: WHO WAS DRIVING THE CAR? A: I THINK MR. MC KENNA. Q: OKAY. I NOTICE THAT WHEN YOU TESTIFIED ON MONDAY THAT YOU NEEDED YOUR GLASSES TO LOOK AT THE MONITOR; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. SO YOU HAVE SOME TYPE OF VISION IMPAIRMENT, DO YOU? A: TO READ FROM SHORT DISTANCES. Q: OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM SEEING THINGS FROM LONG DISTANCE? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. SO YOU CAN SEE THE CLOCKS ON THE WALL? A: PERFECTLY FINE. Q: OKAY. YOU CAN DISCERN WHAT TIME IT IS FROM THIS DISTANCE? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU SEE THE CLOCK ON THE WALL OVER THERE, (INDICATING)? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. WHAT TIME IS IT ON THAT CLOCK? A: AT THAT CLOCK, SIR, IT IS THREE MINUTES BEFORE 9:20, SIR, AND THAT OTHER ONE OVER THERE SAYS 9:20. YOUR HONOR, THE INTERPRETER WILL MAKE A REQUEST. THE COURT: YES. THE INTERPRETER: WOULD BOTH COUNSEL AND WITNESS BE ADMONISHED TO PLEASE WAIT FOR INTERPRETATIONS BEFORE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONING AND ANSWER. THE COURT: YES. THANK YOU. THE RECORD WILL REFLECT THAT THE CLOCK TO THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE COURT DOES REFLECT 9:17. THE LARGE CLOCK, WHICH IS NEVER ACCURATE AT THE END OF THE COURTROOM, DID AT THAT TIME REFLECT 9:20. MR. DARDEN: THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU FOR THE ADMONISHMENT ALSO. THE COURT: YOU ARE WELCOME. IT WASN'T ME, IT WAS THE INTERPRETER WHO DID IT, MR. DARDEN, BUT IF I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT IT -- Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THE GLASSES THAT YOU WEAR -- AND YOU DO WEAR GLASSES ON OCCASION, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. DID YOU BUY THOSE GLASSES FROM AN OPTOMETRIST? A: THE ONES THAT I USED HERE OR WHICH ONES? Q: WELL, DO YOU OWN A PAIR OF GLASSES? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. HAVE YOU BEEN WEARING THOSE GLASSES IN COURT AT ALL? A: THE ONES THAT WERE LENT TO ME HERE, YES. Q: OKAY. WHAT ABOUT THE GLASSES THAT YOU OWN, WHERE ARE THEY? A: SIR, THEY ARE IN ANOTHER STATE. I CANNOT GO PICK THEM UP. Q: OKAY. NOW, WHERE DID YOU BUY THOSE GLASSES? A: AT A PLACE WHERE MY EYES WERE EXAMINED. Q: OKAY. DO YOU RECALL THE NAME OF THAT PLACE? A: IT IS AT THE BURBANK GALLERIA. Q: OKAY. DID YOU BUY THOSE GLASSES LAST WEEK? A: NO, SIR, A YEAR AGO. Q: OKAY. AND THE PLACE WHERE YOU BOUGHT THE GLASSES, IS IT ACTUALLY LOCATED INSIDE THE GALLERIA? A: YES, SIR. Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY TROUBLE SEEING IN THE DARK AT ALL? A: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE. Q: OKAY. NOW, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG? A: YES, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU WALKED THE DOG AT THE SAME TIME EVERY NIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU WALKED THE DOG AT SEVEN O'CLOCK EVERY NIGHT? A: IT DEPENDS, SIR. Q: WHAT DOES IT DEPENDS ON? A: IF I HAVE TAKEN HER OUT EARLY, I TAKE HER OUT AT 7:00, BUT IF I HAVE TAKEN HER OUT LATER, I DON'T TAKE HER OUT AT 7:00. Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AT SEVEN O'CLOCK. A: YES, BECAUSE THE FIRST TIME THAT I TOOK HER OUT IT WAS AT 5:00, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THEN YOU TOLD US THAT YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AGAIN AT TEN O'CLOCK? MR. COCHRAN: THAT MISSTATES, YOUR HONOR. I THINK SHE SAID AFTER 10:00. THAT MISSTATES. OBJECTION. MR. DARDEN: WELL, I THINK -- THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU ASK HER WHAT TIME IT WAS. MR. DARDEN: OKAY. Q: WELL, YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AGAIN SOMETIME AFTER TEN O'CLOCK, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THE DOG OUT A SECOND TIME IF YOU HAD ALREADY TAKEN IT OUT ONCE? A: SIR, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE DOG TO URINATE INSIDE THE HOUSE, SIR. Q: SO YOU NEWSPAPER THE DOG WAS ABOUT TO URINATE INSIDE THE HOUSE? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. OVERRULED. MR. DARDEN: YOU ARE RIGHT, IT DOES. THE WITNESS: WELL, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I HAVE TO TAKE HER OUT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO MOP THE DOG'S PEE THE NEXT DAY, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, THIS IS AN OLD DOG, CORRECT? A: I THINK SO. Q: IF YOU KNOW, DID THIS DOG HAVE SOME TYPE OF ARTHRITIC CONDITION? A: SOMETIMES, YES. Q: OKAY. AND THE DOG HAS ALLERGIES? A: YES. Q: AND THE DOG IS ALWAYS BEING TAKEN TO THE VETERINARIAN FOR TREATMENT, CORRECT? A: THE GENTLEMAN TAKES HER ONCE IN AWHILE. Q: OKAY. AND SOMEONE COMES TO TREAT THE DOG EVERY WEEK, CORRECT? A: SOMEONE WOULD COME TO BATHE HER EVERY TWO WEEKS, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE DOG'S AGE AND MEDICAL PROBLEMS THAT MR. SALINGER TOLD YOU TO NEVER TAKE THE DOG OUT TO THE STREET, CORRECT? A: THAT IS NOT WHY HE SAID IT, SIR. Q: WELL, MR. SALINGER DID TELL YOU NOT TO TAKE THE DOG TO THE STREET, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. THERE ARE NO SIDEWALKS DIRECTLY OUTSIDE MR. SALINGER'S HOME, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. ARE THERE SIDEWALKS DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE SALINGER HOME? A: WELL, HE HAS A YARD, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU REMAINED IN THE YARD, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU DIDN'T TAKE THE DOG OUT TO THE STREET, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID YOU TAKE THE DOG OUT TO THE STREET? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I ALREADY TOLD YOU I DID NOT, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WHEN YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT SHORTLY AFTER TEN O'CLOCK, YOU WALKED THE DOG TOWARDS SOME TREES THAT ARE LOCATED IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, CORRECT? A: THE DOG WALKS ALL AROUND THE YARD. SHE PULLS ON ONE AND WALKS AROUND. Q: OKAY. DID THE DOG REMAIN IN THE YARD? A: I CANNOT ALLOW HER TO GO INTO THE STREET, SIR, BECAUSE SHE WILL TAKE OFF. Q: OKAY. OKAY. YOU TOLD US THAT THE DOG WALKED BETWEEN TWO TREES. A: I DIDN'T SAY BETWEEN, SIR. I SAID AROUND THE TREES. Q: OKAY. THE DOG WALKED AROUND TWO TREES? A: SHE WALKED AROUND THE YARD, SIR. THE INTERPRETER: YOUR HONOR, CAN I HAVE A MOMENT? THE COURT: YES. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE INTERPRETERS.) (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A PHOTOGRAPH, AN EIGHT AND ONE-HALF BY TEN-INCH PHOTOGRAPH. IT APPEARS TO DEPICT THE SALINGER AND THE SIMPSON RESIDENCES. MAY IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S, I BELIEVE IT IS 92? THE COURT: I BELIEVE IT IS -- YEAH, WAIT A MINUTE. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: MISS ROBERTSON IS PLAYING GUNDA DIN. MR. DARDEN: 92, YOUR HONOR. MR. KARDASHIAN: YOUR HONOR, 93. THE COURT: MISS CHAPMAN, DO YOU HAVE 93? MS. CHAPMAN: 93. THE COURT: MRS. ROBERTSON, NEXT PEOPLE'S? THE CLERK: 92. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 92. (PEO'S 92 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, MAY I JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THE WITNESS' MONITOR FOR A MOMENT? THE COURT: YES. EITHER COUNSEL MAY APPROACH. (BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, DO YOU REQUIRE YOUR GLASSES TO LOOK AT THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE MONITOR? A: I FORGOT THEM IN THE CAR, SIR. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, WHAT EFFORT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO GET HER GLASSES FROM -- MR. COCHRAN: LET'S SEE IF MR. BAILEY'S MIGHT WORK, SIR. THE WITNESS: YOUR HONOR, I COULD REPEAT TO YOU WHERE THE DOG WAS AT. I DON'T HAVE TO GO -- YOU DON'T NEED TO GO GET MY GLASSES. (IN ENGLISH) I CAN SEE OVER THERE. THE COURT: YOU CAN SEE? THE WITNESS: (IN ENGLISH) YES, THE BIG SCREEN. THE COURT: OKAY. THE WITNESS: (IN ENGLISH) I NEED SOMETHING. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE WILL NEED -- DO WE NEED A MICROPHONE, MADAM SOUND PERSON? MS. PIETZ: IF SHE SPEAKS UP REALLY LOUDLY, I CAN PICK HER UP ON THE INTERPRETER'S. THE COURT: LET'S HAVE HER USE THE INTERPRETER'S MIKE. MR. DARDEN, DO YOU WANT TO PROCEED WITH HER COMING OFF THE WITNESS STAND AND POINTING TO THE LARGE SCREEN HERE? MR. DARDEN: YEAH. THAT'S FINE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THEN I WILL HAVE THE INTERPRETER GIVE HER THE MICROPHONE. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE WITNESS: I CAN SEE DOWN HERE ALSO. (IN ENGLISH) I CAN SEE ALL THE WAY OVER THERE. I CAN SEE VERY WELL OVER THERE. THE COURT: OKAY. THE WITNESS: (IN ENGLISH) ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. YOU ARE VERY NICE. I WALK MY DOG THIS WAY, RIGHT HERE, SEE, THE DOG'S WALKING OVER HERE. THEY COMING OVER HERE. SHE IS SO HAPPY, STAND UP IN HERE. MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ -- THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ -- CAN YOU PUT THE ARROW ON. MISS LOPEZ, DO YOU SEE THE ARROW ON THE MONITOR? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. OKAY. CAN YOU DIRECT THE ARROW TO THE TREE, THE FIRST TREE THAT THE DOG WALKS AROUND? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q: OKAY. YOU ARE GOING TO -- A: HERE, TO THIS ONE, THE BIG TREE, (INDICATING). Q: OKAY. EXCUSE ME. ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE ONE TO THE RIGHT OF THE ARROW? A: YES. Q: RIGHT THERE. IS THAT THE TREE WHERE THE ARROW IS THERE? A: SHE CAME OVER THERE IN TALKING ABOUT THE TREE. THE INTERPRETER: YOUR HONOR, AGAIN WITNESS AND COUNSEL ARE SPEAKING OVER EACH OTHER AND IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO INTERPRET WHEN THAT IS HAPPENING. THE COURT: YES, COUNSEL, PLEASE, IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR THE INTERPRETER. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: IS THAT THE TREE THERE, MISS LOPEZ? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND WHERE IS THE SECOND TREE? A: IT IS HERE, (INDICATING). RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING). Q: THAT WOULD BE THE TREE IN THE LOWER CORNER OF THE PHOTOGRAPH? A: YES. Q: IS THAT THE TREE WHERE THE ARROW IS? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. NOW, THERE IS A FENCE AROUND THE SALINGER PROPERTY TODAY, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. THERE WAS NO FENCE AROUND THE SALINGER PROPERTY ON JUNE 12 AND JUNE 13, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY I INTERJECT SOMETHING? THE COURT: INTERJECT SOMETHING? MR. COCHRAN: INTERJECT. THE FIRST ARROW IT IS UP TOO HIGH. THE TREE GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN. THE COURT: COUNSEL, YOU ARE TESTIFYING. MR. COCHRAN: I AM JUST ASKING TO MARK IT FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS ALL. I'M NOT TESTIFYING AS TO THE ARROW, WHERE IT IS PLACED. THE COURT: YEAH, BUT YOU ARE TESTIFYING WHETHER IT IS APPROPRIATE OR NOT. THAT IS WHERE THE WITNESS SAID IT SHOULD BE AND THAT IS WHERE IT IS. MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS NOT ACCURATE. THE COURT: COUNSEL, THE RECORD WILL SPEAK FOR ITSELF AT THIS POINT. MR. DARDEN. MR. DARDEN: IF I CAN HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH. I WOULD LIKE TO MARK IT PEOPLE'S 93. THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 93. (PEO'S 93 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WE NEED A MOMENT TO PRINT. I SHOULD INDICATE FOR THE RECORD THAT PEOPLE'S 93 WAS TAKEN JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, YOUR HONOR. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. DARDEN: WHILE WE WAIT FOR THE PRINTING, MAY I PROCEED, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YOU MAY. THANK YOU. MR. DARDEN: OKAY. Q: MISS LOPEZ, THERE IS IVY SURROUNDING THE TREES IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THE DOG WALKED INTO THE IVY? A: I TOLD YOU THAT THE DOG WALKS IN THE YARD, SIR, AND THE YARD INCLUDES ALL THE WEEDS. Q: OKAY. BUT DID THE DOG WALK INTO THE IVY SURROUNDING THE TREES? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. DID YOU WALK INTO THE IVY ALSO? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) THE INTERPRETER: I'M SORRY? Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU ALSO WALK INTO THE IVY? A: I HAVE TO GET IN IT BECAUSE THE LEASH IS VERY SHORT. Q: OKAY. WELL, THE LEASH IS ACTUALLY EIGHT AND A HALF FEET LONG, CORRECT? A: I DON'T THINK IT IS THAT LONG. Q: OKAY. WELL, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT IS? A: I HAVE NEVER MEASURED IT, SIR. Q: OKAY. GIVE US AN APPROXIMATION. A: A METER MAYBE. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: COULD YOU SHOW THE JUDGE AGAIN THE LENGTH OF THE -- A: IT IS VERY SHORT, LIKE THIS, (INDICATING). THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. INDICATING ROUGHLY A METER. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DO THE SALINGERS OWN ONLY ONE LEASH? A: THEY HAVE MANY THAT MEASURE THE SAME, SIR. MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: NOW, WHERE EXACTLY WERE YOU WHEN YOU SAW THE BRONCO SOMETIME AFTER TEN O'CLOCK? A: WELL, I WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE STREET. Q: OKAY. WELL, WERE YOU IN THE IVY? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, ISN'T IT TRUE THAT YOU NEVER WALKED INTO THAT IVY? A: I HAVE TO -- I HAVE TO WALK THERE, SIR, BECAUSE OTHERWISE THE DOG WOULD TAKE OFF IF I DON'T HOLD ON TO HER. Q: ISN'T IT TRUE THAT YOU HAVE TOLD PEOPLE BEFORE THAT YOU FEAR THAT THERE ARE SNAKES OR RATS IN THAT IVY? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, "PEOPLE." THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: HAVE YOU EVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU BELIEVED THAT THE IVY CONTAINS SNAKES AND RATS? A: AT NIGHT IN THE BACK, YES, SIR, BECAUSE IT IS VERY UGLY IN THE BACK. Q: BUT I'M EACH ASKING YOU ABOUT THE IVY, MISS LOPEZ, THE IVY IN THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. A: I DON'T THINK THAT THERE ARE SNAKES IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, DID YOU EVER TELL ANYONE THAT YOU BELIEVED THAT THERE ARE SNAKES AND RATS IN THE IVY LOCATED IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE? A: IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE I HAVEN'T SAID SO. Q: OKAY. AND YOU HAVE ALSO TOLD PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE AFRAID TO GO OUT OF THE HOUSE AFTER DARK, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, AS ARGUMENTATIVE. "ALSO TOLD" REFERS BACK TO THE OTHER QUESTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: HAVE YOU EVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU ARE AFRAID TO GO OUTSIDE THE SALINGER'S HOUSE AFTER DARK? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THAT IS TRUE, CORRECT? A: IT IS VERY TRUE, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THAT SUNDAY NIGHT -- THAT WAS THE SAME NIGHT THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER, CORRECT? A: I DIDN'T SEE A PROWLER, SIR. Q: WELL, ISN'T THAT THE NIGHT THAT YOU SAY YOU HEARD A PROWLER? A: I DIDN'T SAY THAT IT WAS A PROWLER. I SAID THAT THEY WERE STEPS. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, SIR. Q: WELL, DID YOU TELL MR. PAVELIC THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER? A: I DIDN'T SAY A PROWLER. I MEAN I DIDN'T SAY A PROWLER, SIR. I SAID STEPS AND I COULD REPEAT THAT IN FRONT OF HIM. Q: OKAY. DID MR. PAVELIC SUGGEST TO YOU THAT WHAT YOU HEARD WAS A PROWLER THAT SUNDAY NIGHT? A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU SAY "PROWLER." I HAVE NEVER HEARD THAT. Q: OKAY. YOU NEVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR. I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A PROWLER WAS. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. I SAID STEPS, SIR, AND THAT IS SOMETHING ELSE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, WHEN YOU HEARD THOSE STEPS YOU BECAME VERY FRIGHTENED, CORRECT? A: OF COURSE I DID, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU BECAME VERY FRIGHTENED BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT SOMEONE MIGHT BE BREAKING INTO THE HOUSE, CORRECT? A: NOT -- NOT THAT SOMEONE WAS TRYING TO BREAK IN. IT IS JUST THAT I BECAME AFRAID BECAUSE I HEARD THAT SOMEONE PASSED BY. Q: WHEN YOU HEARD SOMEONE PASS BY, YOU DUCKED DOWN, CORRECT? THE INTERPRETER: I'M SORRY? MR. DARDEN: WHEN SHE HEARD SOMEONE PASS BY. Q: YOU DUCKED DOWN, CORRECT? A: TO CLOSE MY CURTAINS, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU DIDN'T WANT THE PERSON OUTSIDE TO SEE YOU, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. Q: YOU DIDN'T WANT THAT PERSON TO KNOW THAT YOU WERE PRESENT, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. Q: WERE YOU AFRAID THAT THAT PERSON MIGHT HARM YOU IF THAT PERSON REALIZED THAT YOU WERE THERE? A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR, THAT -- I WAS AFRAID, THAT'S ALL. Q: OKAY. DID YOU CALL THE POLICE? A: NO, SIR. WHAT FOR? Q: WELL, YOU WERE VERY FRIGHTENED, CORRECT? A: I WAS FRIGHTENED, BUT WHAT COULD I DO, SIR? Q: WELL, THIS PERSON WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE PROPERTY? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, SPECULATION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I DIDN'T KNOW. I NEVER SAID MY PROPERTY. I SAID I HEARD STEPS AND THAT'S ALL. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, DIDN'T YOU TELL US THAT YOU HEARD STEPS RIGHT OUTSIDE YOUR WINDOW? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THE PERSON PASSED BY YOUR WINDOW? A: I DIDN'T SEE HIM, SIR. Q: OKAY. BUT YOU HEARD THE PERSON WALK PAST YOUR WINDOW? A: SIR, SINCE THE PROPERTIES ARE LOCATED SO CLOSE TOGETHER, I THOUGHT THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN MINE OR THE OTHER GENTLEMAN'S. Q: IS THERE A BURGLAR ALARM IN THE SALINGER HOME? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THE HOME IS LOCATED IN BRENTWOOD, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THERE ARE ALSO BARS ON ALL THE WINDOWS, CORRECT? A: BUT NOT IN ALL OF THEM, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, ALL THE DOWNSTAIRS FIRST FLOOR WINDOWS HAVE BARS, CORRECT? A: THE ONES IN FRONT OF THE STREET DO, SIR. Q: OKAY. WAS THE ALARM ON WHILE YOU WERE INSIDE THE HOUSE THAT EVENING? A: I ALWAYS TURN IT ON, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND SO EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE VERY FRIGHTENED THAT NIGHT, YOU TURNED OFF THE BURGLAR ALARM, YOU LEFT THE HOUSE WITH THE SECURITY BARS -- MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, COMPOUND. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. DARDEN: MAY I FINISH THE QUESTION? THE COURT: WELL, WE HAVE HAD TWO THINGS IN IT, SO -- Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND SO YOU LEFT THE HOUSE SHORTLY AFTER TEN O'CLOCK, RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU LEFT THE HOUSE THAT HAD SECURITY BARS? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU LEFT THE HOUSE THAT HAD THE BURGLAR ALARM? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU WENT OUTSIDE? A: YES, SIR. Q: WITH AN OLD DOG WITH ARTHRITIS? MR. COCHRAN: I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THIS QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: BUT SHE WALKS, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. YOU LEFT THE HOUSE WITH AN OLD DOG WITH ARTHRITIS? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU WENT OUTSIDE AND YOU WENT INTO THE DARK, CORRECT? A: IT ISN'T DARK. THERE IS A LIGHT THAT LIGHTS UP ALL OVER THE YARD. Q: THERE ARE LIGHTS THAT ARE ATTACHED DIRECTLY TO THE SIDE AND TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. THERE ARE NO LIGHTS IN THE TREES, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. THE TREES HAVE LIGHTS. SOME OF THE TREES HAVE LIGHTS, SIR. Q: THERE ARE LIGHTS UP IN THE TREES? A: YES, SIR, THERE IS -- Q: BUT THOSE LIGHTS -- THE COURT: HOLD ON. THE WITNESS: -- BIG TREE THAT HAS LIGHTS. THE GENTLEMAN HAS PUT LIGHTS THERE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: HE PUT THOSE LIGHTS UP AFTER THE MURDERS OCCURRED, THOUGH, CORRECT? A: MANY OF THEM WERE ALREADY THERE, SIR. Q: OKAY. IT IS YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THERE WERE SEVERAL LIGHTS IN THE TREES THE NIGHT OF JUNE 12TH? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. ARE THERE LIGHTS IN ALL THE TREES? A: TO MY KNOWLEDGE NOT IN ALL THE TREES, SIR. Q: ALL THE TREES? A: NO, SIR. Q: WELL, WHICH ONES? A: WELL, I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE HOUSE TO REMEMBER RIGHT NOW. THE BIG TREE HAS THEM. MR. DARDEN: OKAY. THIS IS 93? THE COURT: YES. 94 THAT WE HAVE ON THE SCREEN. MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS PEOPLE'S 93. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. LET ME SHOW YOU PEOPLE'S 93. NOW, THAT PICTURE WAS TAKEN A FEW DAYS AGO. DO YOU SEE A FENCE IN THE PHOTOGRAPH? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. THAT FENCE WASN'T THERE ON JUNE 12TH, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THAT TREE, THE ONE SHOWN IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, WAS FULL OF LEAVES BACK IN JUNE, CORRECT? A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF IT HAD LEAVES IN JUNE, SIR. Q: OKAY. IS THAT THE SECOND TREE THAT THE DOG WALKED AROUND? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU WALKED UP INTO THE IVY NEXT TO THAT TREE? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. PAVELIC, YOU DIDN'T TELL HIM THAT YOU WALKED INTO THE IVY, DID YOU? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: BECAUSE HE DIDN'T ASK ME, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: ALL YOU TOLD MR. PAVELIC WAS THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG? A: I TOLD HIM I HAD TAKEN THE DOG OUT, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU DIDN'T TELL HIM WHERE YOU TOOK THE DOG, CORRECT? A: I TOLD HIM IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU DIDN'T TELL MR. PAVELIC THAT YOU HAD TAKEN THE DOG OUT AT FIVE O'CLOCK, CORRECT? A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF I -- IF I TOLD HIM, SIR. Q: AND YOU DIDN'T TELL HIM THAT YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AT SEVEN O'CLOCK? A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF I TOLD HIM THAT, SIR. Q: DID YOU TELL HIM THAT? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. PAVELIC, DIDN'T YOU TELL HIM THAT YOU HEARD MR. SIMPSON'S DOG BARKING AT 9:45? A: SIR, THE DOG ALWAYS BARKS WHEN THE GENTLEMAN IS NOT AT THE HOUSE. Q: WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. PAVELIC DIDN'T YOU TELL HIM THAT YOU HEARD THE DOG BARKING AT 9:45? A: I DON'T REMEMBER THE TIME I SAID THAT THE DOG WAS BARKING AT, SIR. Q: OKAY. WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION TO LOOK AT MR. PAVELIC'S STATEMENT THAT YOU GAVE HIM? A: IF YOU WANT TO, SIR. Q: WELL, LET ME SHOW YOU PEOPLE'S 88, THE JULY 29TH STATEMENT. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR -- MAY IT BE SHOWN TO THE INTERPRETER, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS IN ENGLISH, BUT SHE MAY BE ABLE TO READ IT, AND IF NOT, WE WILL HAVE IT TRANSLATED BY THE INTERPRETER. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, CAN YOU READ ENGLISH? A: NO, SIR. Q: BUT YOU CAN FILL OUT UNEMPLOYMENT APPLICATIONS IN ENGLISH? A: OF COURSE I CAN, SIR. Q: LET ME ASK YOU TO READ THE FIFTH AND SIXTH PARAGRAPHS OF PAGE 1 OF PEOPLE'S 88. (THE INTERPRETER READS THE STATEMENT TO THE WITNESS.) THE WITNESS: IT'S TRUE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. SO DID YOU TELL MR. PAVELIC THAT YOU HEARD A DOG BARKING AT 9:45? MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION BASED UPON WHAT COUNSEL READ. PERHAPS HE CAN SHOW IT TO THE COURT. THE COURT: I DON'T HAVE THAT BEFORE ME. MR. DARDEN: I'M ASKING THE WITNESS A QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, IF SHE TOLD PAVELIC THAT SHE HEARD THE DOG BARKING AT 9:45. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: THE STATEMENT WAS SHOWN TO HER FOR A PURPOSE. OBJECT TO THAT AS SPECULATIVE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. DARDEN, ASK YOUR QUESTION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU HEAR THE DOG BARKING AT 9:45? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU TOLD US THE OTHER DAY THAT THE DOG WAS STILL BARKING AT 12:30; IS THAT CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THERE IS NO TESTIMONY THE DOG WAS BARKING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. COCHRAN: IT IS IMPROPER. THE WITNESS: SIR, THE DOG BARKS, HE QUIETS DOWN, AND THEN HE STARTS BARKING AGAIN, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, YOU TOLD MR. PAVELIC THAT THE DOG WAS BARKING A LONG TIME, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND SO IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY THAT THE DOG WASN'T BARKING FROM 9:45 TO 12:30? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. I SAID THAT HE BARKED A LOT LATE AT NIGHT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, DID YOU HEAR THE DOG BARKING AT 9:45 AND 12:30? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU TOLD US THAT YOU NEVER TOLD ANYONE THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER NEXT DOOR, CORRECT? A: I NEVER SAID A PROWLER, SIR, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW. Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU JUST READ A PORTION OF YOUR STATEMENT TO MR. PAVELIC, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT. THIS IS PAVELIC'S STATEMENT. I WOULD OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. WHY DON'T YOU REPHRASE THAT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, YOU JUST READ THIS STATEMENT A MOMENT AGO, CORRECT? THE COURT: COUNSEL, IT WAS READ TO HER BY THE INTERPRETER. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: READ TO YOU BY THE INTERPRETER. AND THE STATEMENT READS, AND I QUOTE AT PARAGRAPH 4: "SHE HEARD A PROWLER ALONGSIDE HIS OR HER RESIDENCE FENCE." A: I NEVER SAID A PROWLER, SIR, BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE HIM. Q: OKAY. A: I SAID I HEARD STEPS AND THAT IS A VERY DIFFERENT THING. Q: OKAY. SO THE USE OF THE WORD "PROWLER" IN THIS STATEMENT THEN IS NOT A WORD THAT YOU USED? A: NO, SIR. Q: COULD YOU TELL IF THE STEPS THAT YOU HEARD WERE MR. SIMPSON'S STEPS? A: I HAVE NEVER HEARD THE GENTLEMAN WALKING. I CANNOT DISTINGUISH OTHER PEOPLE'S STEPS, SIR. Q: SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHO STEPS -- A: I WOULD HAVE TO STUDY TO DO THAT. Q: OKAY. SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHOSE FOOTSTEPS THOSE WERE THAT YOU HEARD, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. Q: NOW, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME -- AND THIS IS PRIOR TO JUNE 12 -- THAT YOU RESET THE CLOCK IN THE KITCHEN? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. IT IS VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I NEVER CHANGE IT. MR. SALINGER CHANGES IT; NOT ME. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND SO YOU RELY ON THAT CLOCK TO BE ACCURATE, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND SO WHEN YOU TELL US THAT YOU LEFT THE HOUSE SHORTLY AFTER 10:00, THE ACCURACY OF THAT STATEMENT DEPENDS UPON THE ACCURACY OF THAT CLOCK, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THERE IS ANOTHER ASPECT TO THE QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THE ACCURACY OF THAT STATEMENTS DEPEND UPON THE ACCURACY OF THAT CLOCK? A: I THINK SO, SIR. Q: AND SO IF THE CLOCK IS WRONG -- A: I DON'T THINK IT WAS TELLING THE WRONG TIME, SIR, BECAUSE IT HAD TO HAVE THE RIGHT TIME. Q: OKAY. WELL, IF THE CLOCK WAS WRONG, THEN THE TIMES THAT YOU ARE GIVING US ARE WRONG, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: SPECULATIVE, YOUR HONOR. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. ALSO ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: CALLS FOR A CONCLUSION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: IN ANY EVENT, YOU DON'T KNOW IF THE CLOCK IS RIGHT OR WRONG, CORRECT? A: I THINK THE CLOCK WAS SAYING THE RIGHT TIME BECAUSE I THINK THESE CLOCKS ARE TELLING THE RIGHT TIME, RIGHT? OKAY. Q: ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE COURT JUST ADJUSTED THE TIMES ON THESE CLOCKS A FEW DAYS AGO? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. MR. DARDEN: IT IS TRUE. THE COURT: IT IS TRUE, BUT SHE WASN'T HERE TO SEE ME DO IT AND I DON'T THINK ANYBODY ELSE NOTICED. MR. DARDEN: EVERYBODY NOTICED, JUDGE. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THE CLOCK IN THE KITCHEN, IS THAT AN ELECTRIC CLOCK? A: IT IS BATTERY-OPERATED, SIR. Q: AND WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THAT YOU CHANGED THE BATTERIES IN THE CLOCK? MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMING A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR. OBJECTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: HAVE YOU EVER CHANGED THE BATTERIES IN THE CLOCK? A: I DON'T CHANGE THEM, SIR; MR. SALINGER CHANGES THEM. Q: DO YOU KNOW THE DATE THAT THE BATTERIES IN THE CLOCK WERE LAST CHANGED? A: I NEVER ASKED THE GENTLEMAN. Q: AND THE CLOCK THAT WAS IN YOUR BEDROOM, WHERE IS THAT CLOCK NOW? A: I HAVE IT IN MY SUITCASES, SIR. Q: AND IS THAT CLOCK AN ELECTRIC CLOCK OR A BATTERY-OPERATED CLOCK? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: IT IS ELECTRIC, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU SET THAT CLOCK BASED ON THE TIME ON THE CLOCK IN THE KITCHEN? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. SO IF THE KITCHEN CLOCK IS WRONG, THEN SO WAS THE CLOCK IN YOUR BEDROOM, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. DIFFERENT TIMES -- OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. IT IS VAGUE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT TIME DID YOU GET UP ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 12TH? A: I GET UP AT 6:00, I MAKE MY COFFEE, I GET INTO THE SHOWER. Q: DIDN'T YOU TELL US THE OTHER DAY THAT YOU GOT UP AT 8:00 IN THE MORNING? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT -- THIS IS THE 13TH. COUNSEL MISSTATES, YOUR HONOR. HE SAID 12TH IN THE QUESTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: THIS WAS THE 13TH. THE COURT: THE OBJECTION IS FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT TIME DID YOU GET UP SUNDAY MORNING, JUNE 12TH. THE WITNESS: ON MONDAY I GO TO MASS VERY EARLY TELL HIM. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHAT TIME DID YOU GET UP ON SUNDAY MORNING, JUNE 12TH? A: OH, I WENT TO NINE O'CLOCK MASS. I GOT UP ABOUT 7:00. Q: ON SUNDAY? A: YES, SIR. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHERE DO YOU GO TO CHURCH? A: I GO TO OLVERA STREET OR I GO TO SAN MARTIN ON SUNSET. Q: WHERE DID YOU GO ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 12? A: I WENT TO THE CHURCH OF CHRIST THE KING. Q: WHERE IS THAT CHURCH LOCATED? A: IT IS IN GLENDALE. Q: SO YOU DIDN'T GO TO MASS THEN? A: WHY SHOULDN'T I GO? I AM VERY CATHOLIC, SIR. I GO EVERY SUNDAY. Q: OKAY. SO YOU DIDN'T GO TO OLVERA STREET AND YOU DIDN'T GO TO ST. MARTIN'S, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. I TO GO DIFFERENT CHURCHES. Q: WHAT TIME DID YOU RETURN HOME ON SUNDAY MORNING, JUNE 12TH? A: AT ABOUT 10:30 OR 11:00. Q: YOU ARE NOT SURE OF THE TIME? A: THAT'S MORE OR LESS. Q: YOU WEREN'T WATCHING THE CLOCK? A: OF COURSE NOT. Q: OKAY. YOU DON'T ALWAYS WATCH THE CLOCK THROUGHOUT THE DAY, CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. I'M NOT GOING TO BE SITTING JUST WATCHING THE CLOCK, SIR, ALL DAY. Q: OKAY. YOU DON'T WEAR A WRISTWATCH, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR, MANY TIMES. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. SO AS FAR THEN AS ANYTHING YOU DID ON JUNE 12TH, YOU CAN ONLY GIVE US AN APPROXIMATE TIME? A: WELL, YES. WHEN I LEAVE THE HOUSE THERE I SEE THE CLOCK AND WHEN I COME BACK THAT I LOOK AT IT AGAIN. Q: OKAY. SO WHEN YOU LOOKED AT IT AGAIN ON JUNE 12TH THE CLOCK SHOWED 10:30 OR 11:00? A: I THINK SO. Q: WELL, WHICH ONE DID IT SHOW? A: SIR, I DON'T REMEMBER IF -- THAT WAS LAST YEAR. NOW, I'M NOT GOING TO REMEMBER WHAT I DID DIFFICULT EXACTLY, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, IF YOU CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT YOU DID ON SUNDAY, JUNE 12TH, HOW CAN YOU REMEMBER -- MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THIS IS ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: ARE YOU HAVING TROUBLE RECALLING WHAT YOU DID? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND AT WHAT TIME? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, DID YOU GET HOME FROM CHURCH AT 10:30 OR 11:00 THEN? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. THIS IS IMPROPER CROSS-EXAMINATION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: JUST SAY 10:30, SIR, SO YOU ARE NOT ARGUING. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOU, MISS LOPEZ; I'M JUST ASKING YOU. DID YOU KNOW THE EXACT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU RETURNED FROM CHURCH? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT IS ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: 10:30, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. ARE YOU SURE? A: YES, SIR. Q: ARE YOU POSITIVE? MR. COCHRAN: JUST ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. BUT YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ELEVEN O'CLOCK? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH? THE COURT: OVERRULED. NO. PROCEED. THE WITNESS: WELL, SINCE HE INSISTS SO MUCH AND HE INSISTS SO MUCH AS TO THE EXACT TIME AND THE EXACT TIME -- Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, DIDN'T MR. PAVELIC INSIST UPON KNOWING THE EXACT TIME? A: HUM, I JUST TOLD HIM WHAT I KNEW. Q: WELL, YOU TOLD HIM TEN O'CLOCK, RIGHT? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD HIM THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG AFTER TEN O'CLOCK? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HE TOLD YOU THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG AT 10:15 OR 10:20? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. YOU TOLD HIM THAT YOU RETURNED TO THE HOUSE SHORTLY AFTER TEN O'CLOCK, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HE TOLD YOU THAT YOU KNEW THAT THE BRONCO WAS STILL IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE AT ELEVEN O'CLOCK, CORRECT? A: I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T SEE IT AT 11:00, SIR, BECAUSE I DID NOT GO OUTSIDE AT 11:00. Q: WELL, IN THE STATEMENT YOU GAVE MR. PAVELIC, DIDN'T YOU AGREE WITH HIM WHEN HE SAID THAT THE BRONCO WAS PARKED IN THE SAME PLACE FROM 8:30 TO 11:00 P.M.? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THAT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. I WOULD LIKE THE COURT TO SEE THE STATEMENT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I DIDN'T TELL HIM AT 11:00, SIR, NOR AT 8:30. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. A: NOT 11:00 OR 8:30. Q: WELL, DIDN'T HE SUGGEST TO YOU THAT HE KNEW THAT THE BRONCO WAS STILL PARKED AT THE CURB AT 11:00 P.M.? A: NO, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU DO AT 11:00 A.M. SUNDAY MORNING, JUNE 12TH? A: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: WHAT DID YOU DO AT 11:30 A.M.? A: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. Q: HOW ABOUT NOON? A: WELL, MAYBE WATCHED T.V., TAKE THE DOG OUT TO PLAY OUTSIDE, MAKE HER HAPPY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU DO THAT AT TWELVE NOON SHARP? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, NOT AT TWELVE NOON SHARP. I DON'T HAVE A TIME -- A SPECIFIC TIME TO TAKE THE DOG OUT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, WHAT DID YOU DO AT 12:30? A: OH, SIR, HOW CAN I REMEMBER THAT, SIR? I WAS STILL IN THE BATHROOM, SIR. Q: OKAY. WHAT DID YOU DO AT ONE O'CLOCK, 1:00 IN THE AFTERNOON? A: MAYBE SIT DOWN TO WATCH T.V., SIR. Q: OKAY. ARE YOU SURE YOU SAT DOWN TO WATCH T.V. AT ONE O'CLOCK? A: NO, BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER. I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU WEREN'T WATCHING THE CLOCK THAT DAY, CORRECT? A: OF COURSE NOT. Q: OKAY. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DID AT THREE O'CLOCK OR AT FOUR O'CLOCK THAT AFTERNOON, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THIS QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU DON'T REMEMBER? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU MAKE ANY NOTES OR WRITE DOWN ANYTHING THAT YOU DID ON JUNE THE 12TH? A: WHAT IS IN THE PAST IS IN THE PAST. I DON'T CARE ABOUT KNOWING ABOUT HER ANY MORE. Q: OKAY. YOU JUST DON'T RECALL -- MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: -- WHAT YOU DID AND AT WHAT TIME? THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: WELL, I DON'T HAVE TO BE REMEMBERING WHAT I DID YESTERDAY. FOR WHAT? Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. DID YOU WRITE DOWN ANY NOTES DESCRIBING WHAT YOU DID ON JUNE 12TH? A: NO, SIR. I DON'T WRITE, SIR. Q: OKAY. DID YOU EVER WRITE ANY NOTES INDICATING WHAT YOU HEARD OR SAW ON JUNE 12TH, 1994? A: NO, SIR. Q: DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOU ATE FOR LUNCH THAT DAY? MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMING A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: WHAT DID I HAVE FOR LUNCH, SIR? Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YES. A: TAMALES, SIR. Q: WHAT DID YOU HAVE FOR DINNER? A: TAMALES. TAMALES. I LOVE TAMALES, SIR. Q: WHAT DID YOU HAVE FOR BREAKFAST? A: I DON'T EAT BREAKFAST, SIR. Q: AND WHAT TIME DID YOU HAVE THOSE TAMALES THAT DAY? A: WHEN? ON JUNE 12TH? ON JUNE 13TH ON JUNE 15TH OR WHEN? Q: YES, JUNE 12. JUNE 12TH. A: UMM, AT ABOUT 2:00 IN THE AFTERNOON. I DON'T EAT VERY MUCH. Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, DO YOU EAT LUNCH EVERYDAY? A: SOMETIMES AND SOMETIMES I DON'T, SIR. Q: DO YOU EAT LUNCH AT THE SAME TIME WHENEVER YOU DO EAT LUNCH? A: NO. Q: OKAY. AND SO WHEN YOU TELL US YOU ATE LUNCH AT TWO O'CLOCK, YOU ARE NOT SURE OF THAT TIME EITHER, CORRECT? A: YES, I AM. Q: HOW ARE YOU SURE OF THAT? A: BECAUSE I WAS ALREADY HUNGRY, SIR. Q: WELL, DID YOU LOOK AT THE CLOCK AT TWO O'CLOCK? A: YES, SIR. I HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CLOCK TO SEE. Q: SO YOU DISTINCTLY REMEMBER LOOKING AT THE CLOCK AT TWO O'CLOCK? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR -- THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. COCHRAN: -- ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE WITNESS: UMM, I HAVE TO LOOK AT IT IF IT IS IN FRONT OF ME IN THE KITCHEN, SIR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, DO YOU HAVE MUCH MORE? MR. DARDEN: ANOTHER 25 MINUTES, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A RECESS AT THIS POINT THEN. ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK FOR ABOUT TEN MINUTES. ALL RIGHT. PLEASE COME BACK IN TEN MINUTES. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL STAND IN RECESS FOR TEN. THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, SIR. (RECESS.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, WHILE WE ARE WAITING FOR THE WITNESS, CAN WE MARK THIS PRINT 92-A? THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 92-A, PRINT. (PEO'S 92-A FOR ID = PRINT) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, MISS LOPEZ. THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING, SIR. THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. HOPEFULLY WE'LL FINISH THIS MORNING. ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 92-A WILL BE THE HARD COPY PRINTOUT OF THE SCREEN PRINT WITH REGARDS TO TREE LOCATION. MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, IF I MAY, I WOULD LIKE TO HAND 92-A TO MISS LOPEZ AND ASK HER TO INDICATE WITH AN "X" HER EXACT LOCATION THE LAST TIME SHE SAW THE BRONCO. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. AND I TAKE IT YOU HAVE A MARKER FOR HER TO USE? Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, IF YOU WILL, WILL YOU PLEASE PLACE A DOT AT THE EXACT LOCATION THAT YOU WERE THE LAST TIME YOU SAW THE BRONCO. MR. COCHRAN: AT WHAT POINT, YOUR HONOR? VAGUE. MR. DARDEN: THAT -- SOMETIME AFTER 10:00 CLOCK. THE WITNESS: (THE WITNESS COMPLIES.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE WITNESS HAS COMPLIED AND PLACED A BLUE DOT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND SO YOU'VE INDICATED ON THE DOCUMENT MARKED 92-A THAT YOU WERE IN THE STREET, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. MISSTATES WHAT SHE SAID. UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: YOUR HONOR, COULD WE HAVE THE INTERPRETER PUT THE MICROPHONE ON? THE COURT: YES. MR. DARDEN: WHAT WAS THE ANSWER? THE COURT: HOLD ON JUST A SECOND. SHE FORGOT TO PUT THE MICROPHONE ON. MADAM INTERPRETER. THE WITNESS: I SAID NOT ON THE STREET. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, DID YOU MARK THE STREET IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH MARKED 92-A? A: IF I -- YOU WANT ME TO PUT IT IN -- INSIDE THE BUSHES, SIR, I WILL PUT IT IN THE BUSHES THERE BECAUSE IT WAS IN THE BUSHES, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU WERE IN THE BUSHES? OKAY. THE FIRST MARK YOU MADE YOU MADE WITH A BLUE MARKER; IS THAT RIGHT? THE INTERPRETER: I AM SORRY. I DIDN'T HEAR THAT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THE FIRST MARK YOU MADE ON 92-A WAS MADE WITH A BLUE MARKER, CORRECT? THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, LET'S USE A RED. IT'S A LITTLE MORE COMPRESSED THAN GREEN. THE WITNESS: WITH THIS ONE (INDICATING). Q: BY MR. DARDEN: LET ME HAND YOU A RED MARKER. AND AGAIN, LET ME ASK YOU TO INDICATE YOUR EXACT LOCATION THE LAST TIME YOU SAW THE BRONCO WHICH YOU SAY WAS SHORTLY AFTER 10:00 P.M. BEFORE YOU DO THAT, LET ME INDICATE TO YOU THAT IF YOU WERE IN THE BUSHES, INDICATE IT IN THE BUSHES. BUT THE EXACT LOCATION THIS TIME. A: I WAS RIGHT HERE, SEE? THIS IS THE STREET AND THIS IS THE BUSH ON THE STREET (INDICATING). MR. DARDEN: OKAY. SHE HAS MADE A RED MARK ON THE DIAGRAM, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE WITNESS: I WILL GIVE IT TO YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE WITNESS: UP TO MY HONOR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD US THAT YOU SPOKE TO A DETECTIVE ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 13? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU WERE BEHIND THE SECURITY DOOR WHEN THAT DETECTIVE CAME TO THE DOOR, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: HAD YOU EVER SEEN THAT DETECTIVE BEFORE? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. DID THAT DETECTIVE TELL YOU HIS NAME? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU REMEMBERED THAT NAME, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. DID YOU KNOW THE DETECTIVE'S NAME WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. PAVELIC THE FIRST TIME? A: I TOLD HIM THAT I COULDN'T PRONOUNCE IT FOR HIM. Q: WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. PAVELIC, DID YOU DESCRIBE THE DETECTIVE? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU TOLD MR. PAVELIC HOW TALL THE DETECTIVE WAS? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID YOU TELL MR. PAVELIC HOW MUCH THE DETECTIVE WEIGHED? A: HE DIDN'T ASK ME, SIR. Q: DID YOU TELL THE DETECTIVE WHETHER OR -- STRIKE THAT. DID YOU TELL MR. PAVELIC WHETHER OR NOT THE DETECTIVE HAD A MUSTACHE? A: THEY DIDN'T ASK ME, SIR. Q: YOU WATCHED THE PRELIMINARY HEARING ON TELEVISION, CORRECT? A: I THINK THE WHOLE WORLD HAS SEEN IT, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU WATCHED IT -- STRIKE THAT. DID YOU WATCH IT ON THE TELEVISION LOCATED IN YOUR BEDROOM? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU SAW DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN TESTIFY, CORRECT? A: I DIDN'T SEE ALL OF IT, SIR. JUST PART, JUST A PART OF IT. Q: OKAY. BUT YOU SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN ON TELEVISION, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU SAW KATO KAELIN ON TELEVISION? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU SAW THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER ALLAN PARK ON TELEVISION? THE INTERPRETER: LIMOUSINE WHAT? I AM SORRY. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND YOU SAW THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER, MR. PARK, ON TELEVISION? A: I HAVEN'T SEEN MANY PARTS OF IT, SIR, BECAUSE I CAN'T JUST BE WATCHING TELEVISION. I HAVE TO WORK. Q: BUT YOU SAW THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER ON TELEVISION, RIGHT? A: I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU, SIR, THAT I CAN'T TELL YOU EVERYTHING THAT I'VE SEEN BECAUSE I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: OKAY. SO YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER TESTIFY, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE INTERPRETER: CAN I PLEASE HAVE THE QUESTION READ BACK? Q: BY MR. DARDEN: SO YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER TESTIFY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING? A: TELL HIM THAT I DON'T JUST WATCH T.V., THAT I HAVE TO WORK. Q: SO YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER TESTIFY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER HAS BEEN NONRESPONSIVE. THE WITNESS: SIR, I CAN NOT JUST SIT AROUND WATCHING TELEVISION, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: SO YOU MAY HAVE SEEN THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER TESTIFY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, CORRECT? A: SIR, I HAVE TO CLEAN THE HOUSE BECAUSE THE LADY WANTS HER HOUSE CLEANED AND I HAVE TO WORK, SIR. MR. DARDEN: MOTION TO STRIKE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: NO. MISS LOPEZ, WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, DO YOU RECALL SOMEBODY TESTIFYING WHO WAS IDENTIFIED AS THE DRIVER OF THE LIMOUSINE? THE WITNESS: YOUR HONOR, I CAN NOT SEE THE ENTIRE PRELIMINARY HERE BECAUSE I HAVE TO WORK, SIR. THE COURT: AT THIS TIME, DO YOU RECALL SEEING THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER TESTIFY? THE WITNESS: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU SEE THE PEOPLE THAT FOUND THE DOG THAT NIGHT TESTIFY? MR. COCHRAN: IT'S VAGUE, YOUR HONOR. IT'S VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NOT ALL OF IT, SIR, BECAUSE AS I'VE TOLD YOU, I CAN'T WATCH T.V. ALL DAY LONG, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. BUT YOU HEARD PEOPLE TESTIFY THAT THEY HEARD A DOG BEGIN BARKING AT APPROXIMATELY 10:15 P.M., CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: IT SEEMS, YES, SIR. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND THE STATEMENT YOU GAVE MR. BILL WAS GIVEN AFTER THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, CORRECT? A: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. Q: WELL, DO YOU RECALL WATCHING THE PRELIMINARY HEARING SOMETIME AROUND JULY 4? A: I DON'T REMEMBER THE DATE, SIR, BECAUSE I WASN'T -- I WASN'T KEEPING UP. Q: OKAY. BUT YOU DID SPEAK TO MR. BILL SOMETIME AFTER THE PRELIMINARY HEARING CONCLUDED? A: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. BILL, YOU KNEW WHICH TIMES WERE CRITICAL. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. BILL, YOU KNEW HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS TO SHOW THAT THE BRONCO WAS AT MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE AT 10:15? A: NO, SIR. Q: IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT WAS IMPORTANT, WHY DID YOU TALK TO MR. BILL IN THE FIRST PLACE? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION; ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: REPHRASE THE QUESTION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: IF YOU DID NOT KNOW THAT 10:15 WAS AN IMPORTANT TIME, WHY THEN DID YOU FEEL IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT YOU SPEAK TO MR. BILL? MR. COCHRAN: SAME OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. ASSUMING FACTS THAT ARE NOT IN EVIDENCE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. THE INFORMATION THAT YOU HAD -- STRIKE THAT. MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, SHE TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT, THAT THE INFORMATION WAS IMPORTANT. MS. CLARK: YES, SHE DID. MR. COCHRAN: IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: THE COURT STANDS CORRECTED. OVERRULED. EXCUSE ME. ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. IF YOU DIDN'T THINK THE INFORMATION YOU HAD WAS IMPORTANT, WHY THEN DID YOU AGREE TO SPEAK TO MR. BILL? A: BECAUSE I TOLD MICHELLE AND MICHELLE TOLD ME TO TALK TO -- WITH KATHY. Q: SO YOU SPOKE TO -- A: I DIDN'T KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THIS WAS. Q: WELL, YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU NEVER TOLD MR. BILL THAT YOU SAW THE BRONCO AT 10:15. A: I DID GIVE HIM A SPECIFIC TIME. Q: OKAY. WHAT SPECIFIC TIME DID YOU GIVE HIM? A: I SAID AFTER 10:00, SIR. Q: OKAY. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE INTERPRETER: ONE MOMENT. (CONFERENCE BETWEEN INTERPRETERS.) THE INTERPRETER: CORRECTION. THE ANSWER WAS, "I DID NOT GIVE HIM A SPECIFIC TIME." MR. DARDEN: IS THE INTERPRETER CORRECTING THE PREVIOUS ANSWER? THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T YOU ASK THE QUESTION AND ANSWER AGAIN. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WHAT SPECIFIC TIME DID YOU GIVE MR. BILL? A: I TOLD HIM AFTER 10:00, SIR. MR. DARDEN: OKAY. I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY A PORTION OF A TAPE, OKAY? I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THE TAPE PEOPLE'S 94. THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 94, CASSETTE TAPE. (PEO'S 94 FOR ID = CASSETTE TAPE) MR. DARDEN: AND THIS IS A PORTION OF THE TAPED INTERVIEW THAT THE WITNESS HAD WITH MR. BILL PAVELIC. I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY A PORTION OF IT INITIALLY AND THEN I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY THE ENTIRE TAPE UNLESS THERE'S AN OBJECTION FROM MR. COCHRAN. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S HEAR THE -- AND THE COURT STAFF PREPARED A TRANSCRIPT OF THAT. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT -- NO. I'VE GOT MINE UP HERE. MR. DARDEN: INITIALLY, I'M GOING TO PAY -- PLAY RATHER PAGE 7, LINES -- THE COURT: JUST SO COUNSEL CAN FOLLOW ALONG. MR. DARDEN: -- LINES 7 THROUGH -- MR. COCHRAN: MAY I POINT OUT SOMETHING TO THE COURT ON PAGE 3? MAYBE COUNSEL -- THERE'S A WORD THAT'S WRONG. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T YOU CONFER WITH MR. DARDEN. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) THE COURT: DO WE HAVE THE TAPE CUED UP TO THAT SPOT? MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YES, YOUR HONOR. I JUST WANT TO CHECK AND SEE IF IT'S AT THE RIGHT POINT. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. AND I AM SORRY, MR. DARDEN. WHAT WAS THE PAGE ON THE TRANSCRIPT? MR. DARDEN: IT'S GOING TO BE PAGE 7, LINES 7 THROUGH 11. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. AND THIS IS THE COURT'S TRANSCRIPT WE'RE WORKING FROM? MR. DARDEN: YEAH. THE COURT'S TRANSCRIPT. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, IF HE'S GOING TO -- I PRESUME HE IS GOING TO PLAY THIS PORTION, THEN PLAY THE ENTIRE TAPE AFTER THAT; IS THAT CORRECT? MR. DARDEN: YES. WHY NOT? (AT 10:50 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 94 FOR IDENTIFICATION, A PORTION OF AN AUDIOTAPE WAS PLAYED.) (AT 10:50 A.M., THE PLAYING OF THE AUDIOTAPE ENDED.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WAS THAT YOUR VOICE ON THE TAPE? A: YES, SIR. Q: SO YOU TOLD MR. BILL THAT YOU TOOK YOUR DOG FOR A WALK AT 10:20? A: IF THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS, 10:15, 10:20, THAT'S FINE FOR ME. Q: WELL, YOU SAID 10:15 OR 10:20, CORRECT? A: I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT A SPECIFIC TIME, SIR. I SAID AFTER 10:00. AND I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING, SIR. WHEN I HEARD MY NAME ON TELEVISION WITH 10:15, 10:20 TIME, I CALLED MR. JOHNNIE COCHRAN'S OFFICE AND I SAID I HAVE NEVER GIVEN THEM A SPECIFIC TIME. THANK YOU. MR. DARDEN: WHY DON'T WE PLAY THE TAPE FROM THE BEGINNING, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, YOU'RE GOING TO PLAY THE ENTIRE TAPE? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ -- MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY THE JURY MAY HEAR THE TAPE, CAN WE PUT THE TRANSCRIPT ON THE ELMO? THE COURT: WELL, HOLD ON JUST A SECOND. WHY DO I WANT TO PUT THE TRANSCRIPT ON THE ELMO AT THIS POINT? MR. COCHRAN: WELL, PRESUMABLY AT SOME POINT, THE JURY MAY HEAR THIS AND THE OTHER TIMES WE'VE ALSO HAD THE TRANSCRIPT WHERE THE JURY'S BEEN PRESENT. I'M JUST SAYING THEY MAY BE HERE AT SOME POINT FOR THIS TESTIMONY. THE COURT: WELL, IF THEY ARE, WE'LL GIVE THEM THE TRANSCRIPT. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THIS TRANSCRIPT NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP, YOUR HONOR, ALSO. THE COURT: I AGREE. BUT MY STAFF MADE THIS TRANSCRIPT IN 20 MINUTES. MR. COCHRAN: I UNDERSTAND. MR. DARDEN: A VERY FINE TRANSCRIPT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: INDEED IT IS. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, REGARDING THE COMMENTS THAT YOU MADE TO MR. BILL ON THE TAPE YOU JUST HEARD -- A: YES, SIR. Q: -- AT ONE POINT, YOU SAID, "I TOOK THE DOG AT 10:00," AND THEN THERE WAS A PAUSE, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WE CAN HEAR PAPER -- MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, CAN YOU HEAR -- THE COURT: AND ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, DID YOU HEAR A SOUND ON THE TAPE BETWEEN THE TIME THAT YOU SAID 10:00 AND THEN THE TIME THAT YOU SAID 10:20? A: I DON'T PAY ATTENTION, SIR. Q: OKAY. LET ME PLAY IT AGAIN FOR YOU, AND LET ME ASK YOU TO PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME, PLEASE. (AT 10:54 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 94 FOR IDENTIFICATION, A PORTION OF AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) (AT 10:54 A.M., THE PLAYING OF THE AUDIOTAPE ENDED.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU HEAR A NOISE IN BETWEEN YOUR 10:00 AND 10:20? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID MR. BILL SHOW YOU A TIME WRITTEN ON A PIECE OF PAPER AT THAT POINT? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID HE POINT TO THE WORDS OR THE NUMBERS 10:20? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, AFTER YOU MENTIONED 10:20, OKAY, YOU THEN SAID 10:15. A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. WHY DID YOU SAY 10:15? A: BECAUSE I SAID AFTER 10:00, SIR, AND I NEVER GAVE THEM A SPECIFIC TIME, SIR. Q: OKAY. I WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE PLAYING THE TAPE, YOUR HONOR, UNTIL WE GET TO LINE 19 ON PAGE 7. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, WE'RE GOING TO PLAY SOME MORE OF THE TAPE. I AM GOING TO ASK YOU TO PAY CLOSE ATTENTION, IF YOU WILL, PLEASE. A: FINE, SIR. (AT 10:55 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 94 FOR IDENTIFICATION, A PORTION OF AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) (AT 10:55 A.M., THE PLAYING OF THE AUDIOTAPE ENDED.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU HEAR ON THE TAPE MR. PAVELIC SAY 10:30? A: I DIDN'T HEAR THAT, SIR. Q: DID YOU HEAR YOURSELF AGREE WITH MR. PAVELIC WHEN HE SAID 10:30? MR. COCHRAN: THE TAPE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WOULD YOU LIKE TO HEAR IT AGAIN? A: YES, SIR. THE COURT: TURN THE VOLUME DOWN JUST A TAD. (AT 10:56 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 94 FOR IDENTIFICATION, A PORTION OF AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) (AT 10:56 A.M., THE PLAYING OF THE AUDIOTAPE ENDED.) MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION. THAT IS NOT CLEAR, 10:15, 10:30. IT'S NOT CLEAR, AND BASED UPON THAT, THE TAPE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU HEAR MR. BILL MENTION 10:30 THERE ON THE TAPE? A: HE CAN MENTION ANYTHING HE WANTS, SIR. Q: OKAY. BUT DID YOU HEAR YOURSELF AGREE WITH HIM AND SAY "YEAH"? A: BUT I NEVER TAKE THE DOG OUT AT 10:30, SIR. IT'S TOO LATE FOR ME. Q: YOU DON'T TAKE THE DOG OUT AT 10:15 EITHER, DO YOU? A: I SAID AFTER 10:00 AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE MINUTES, SIR. Q: OKAY. THROUGHOUT THE INTERVIEW YOU HAD WITH MR. BILL, HE KEPT PUTTING WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH, DIDN'T HE? A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR, IF HE PUT THEM THERE BECAUSE I TOLD HIM WHAT I KNEW. Q: WELL, DID YOU TELL HIM THAT THE -- MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY I INTERRUPT COUNSEL FOR JUST A MOMENT? WE'VE AGREED ON A CHANGE AND PERHAPS MR. DARDEN DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS, THIS PART ABOUT PAVELIC. PERHAPS HE CAN CONSULT WITH HIS COLLEAGUES. WE AGREED YESTERDAY TO A CHANGE, THAT THAT'S WHAT PAVELIC HAD SAID. PERHAPS HE CAN CONSULT WITH THEM AND DIRECT IT TO THE WITNESS. MR. DARDEN: THAT'S WITH THE TRANSCRIPT? MR. COCHRAN: YES. MR. DARDEN: THE TRANSCRIPT IS NOT EVIDENCE. THE COURT: NOT YET. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, THE AGREEMENT FOR PURPOSES OF THIS HEARING I SUPPOSE IS THAT MR. PAVELIC STATES AT LINE 18 OF PAGE 7, "10:20, 10:30, OKAY," AND AT LINE 19, MISS LOPEZ RESPONDS, "YEAH." THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID MR. PAVELIC SUGGEST TO YOU CERTAIN TIMES? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. LET'S LISTEN TO THE ENTIRE TAPE, OKAY? WE'LL BEGIN. CAN WE PROCEED, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES, PLEASE. (AT 10:59 A.M., PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 94 FOR IDENTIFICATION, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, COULD WE STOP IT? MR. DARDEN: NO, NO, NO, NO. (AT 10:59 A.M., THE PLAYING OF THE AUDIOTAPE CONTINUES.) (AT 11:14 A.M., THE PLAYING OF THE AUDIOTAPE ENDED.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, DID MR. BILL EVER READ TO YOU THE WRITTEN STATEMENT THAT HE WROTE OUT? A: NO, SIR. Q: WAS IT DURING THAT INTERVIEW THAT YOU MENTIONED SYLVIA? A: NO, SIR. Q: DO YOU KNOW THE DATE WHICH YOU GAVE THAT INTERVIEW TO MR. BILL? A: I THINK IT WAS JULY, JUNE. THE COURT: MICROPHONE, MR. DARDEN. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU'RE NOT SURE OF THE DATE? A: NO. Q: ARE YOU SURE OF THE EXACT TIME IN WHICH THAT INTERVIEW BEGAN? A: I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE HOUR, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU TOLD MR. BILL THAT YOU LOOKED OUTSIDE AND YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON'S BENTLEY LEAVING; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU TESTIFIED HERE THE OTHER DAY, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU COULD SEE A BLOND-HAIRED PASSENGER IN THE CAR, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: SO YOU WERE INSIDE YOUR HOUSE WHEN YOU SAW THE CAR PASS? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU WERE IN YOUR BEDROOM? A: YES, SIR. Q: SO YOU WERE STANDING THERE IN FRONT OF THE WINDOW? A: NOT STANDING. Q: WELL, WERE YOU LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW WATCHING? A: NO, SIR. I WENT OUT TO THE GUEST ROOM TO TURN ON LIGHTS. Q: OH, AND YOU WERE OUTSIDE? A: INSIDE, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU LOOKED OUT THE WINDOW AND YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON'S CAR PASS? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THIS IS 9:00 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT IS IT? A: APPROXIMATELY. I NEVER GAVE THEM AN EXACT TIME. I ALREADY TOLD YOU SO, SIR. Q: WELL, DIDN'T YOU TELL MR. BILL THAT IT WAS BETWEEN 8:30 AND 9:00 O'CLOCK? A: THAT'S IT, BETWEEN 8:30 AND 9:00, SIR. THAT'S NOT THE EXACT TIME, SIR. Q: YOU DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TIME. A: YES, I KNOW THE EXACT TIME, BUT I NEVER GIVE YOU THE EXACT TIME BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE, SIR. Q: AND WHAT IS THE EXACT TIME? A: YOU CAN SAY 9:00, SIR. Q: OKAY. BUT YOU'RE NOT SURE THOUGH? A: I'M SURE IT WAS 9:00, SIR. Q: YOU JUST TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU NEVER GAVE AN EXACT TIME BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T SURE. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: AS YOU SAY, SIR, BETWEEN 8:30 AND 9:00 AND I SAID TO YOU BETWEEN 8:30 AND 9:00. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. NOW, YOU UNDERSTAND, MISS LOPEZ, THAT YOU SHOULDN'T SAY A TIME JUST BECAUSE I SAY THE TIME, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. NOW, IT WAS DARK AT 9:00 P.M. THAT NIGHT, CORRECT? A: I THINK SO. Q: OKAY. AND THE WINDOW WHERE YOU WERE STANDING IS ABOUT A HUNDRED AND 40 FEET FROM THE STREET, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. SHE CAN ANSWER IF SHE KNOWS. THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW, SIR, HOW LONG -- FAR IT'S IN FEET. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. BUT FROM YOUR POSITION INSIDE THE HOUSE, YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT THE PASSENGER IN MR. SIMPSON'S VEHICLE HAD BLOND HAIR? A: I ONLY SAW PART OF THE HAIR, SIR. Q: BUT YOU COULD TELL THAT IT WAS BLOND? A: YES, SIR. Q: FROM THAT DISTANCE? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, MR. SIMPSON'S CAR PASSED THE FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE, RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND AS THE CAR PASSED YOUR HOUSE, YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT, RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: SO MR. SIMPSON WAS SEATED IN THE CHAIR CLOSEST TO YOU? A: YES, SIR. Q: COULD YOU SEE THROUGH MR. SIMPSON AND SEE THE MAN IN THE PASSENGER SEAT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: WELL, IT CAN BE SEEN, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: I'M SORRY? THE INTERPRETER: IT CAN BE SEEN, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: IT CAN BE SEEN. YOU TOLD MR. BILL OR RATHER YOU AGREED WITH MR. BILL WHEN HE SAID THAT IT WAS KATO KAELIN THAT WAS IN THE CAR, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT. THAT MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. IT'S ON THE TAPE. MR. DARDEN: CAN WE HAVE AN ANSWER? THE WITNESS: I NEVER TOLD HIM THAT IT WAS KATO KAELIN. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: BUT YOU AGREED WITH MR. BILL WHEN HE SAID THAT THE PERSON WAS KATO KAELIN, CORRECT? A: IF THAT'S WHAT HE SAID, SIR. I DIDN'T KNOW WHO IT WAS. PERHAPS HE KNEW BETTER, MORE THAN I DID. Q: AND YOU TOLD MR. BILL THAT YOU SAW THE BRONCO PARKED AT 11:00 P.M., CORRECT? A: THAT'S WHAT HE SAID, SIR, NOT I. Q: WELL, WHEN HE SAID THAT YOU SAW IT AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, YOU AGREED WITH HIM, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I NEVER AGREED ON ANYTHING, SIR. HE WOULD SAY THAT AND I WOULD SAY, "WELL, OKAY." Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, WHEN YOU SAID, "WELL, OKAY," YOU WERE AGREEING WITH MR. PAVELIC'S STATEMENT, CORRECT? A: IF THAT'S WHAT IT SAID, SIR. Q: WELL, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, MISS LOPEZ? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. SO YOU SAW THE BRONCO AT 11:00 O'CLOCK? A: NO, SIR. I NEVER SAID 11:00, SIR. Q: OKAY. LET ME READ TO YOU A QUESTION AND ANSWER. WHAT COCHRAN: WHAT PAGE? MR. DARDEN: PAGE 8, LINES 1 THROUGH 6. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. DO YOU RECALL -- THE INTERPRETER: EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. DO YOU WANT ME TO TRANSLATE SIMULTANEOUSLY OR -- THE COURT: CONSECUTIVELY, PLEASE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS AND GIVING THE FOLLOWING ANSWERS? AND THESE QUESTIONS WERE BY MR. PAVELIC. "QUESTION: SO YOU SAW THE CAR PARKED THERE THE WHOLE TIME?" YOUR ANSWER WAS: "YES." MR. PAVELIC ASKED: "LET'S SAY FROM 8:30 ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL 11:00 O'CLOCK." YOUR RESPONSE WAS: "YES." DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS AND GIVING THOSE RESPONSES? A: I DON'T REMEMBER THAT HE TOLD ME 11:00, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU JUST HEARD A TAPE HERE IN COURT A MOMENT AGO, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS YOUR VOICE ON THE TAPE, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU HEAR YOURSELF ON THE TAPE AGREE WITH MR. PAVELIC WHEN HE SAID THAT YOU SAW THE BRONCO ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL 11:00 O'CLOCK? A: I NEVER TOLD HIM THAT I HAD SEEN THE BRONCO AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, SIR, BUT IF IT SAYS YES, THEN I SAY YES. Q: WELL, IF YOU SAID YES THEN, WERE YOU TELLING THE TRUTH? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I'VE NEVER -- I NEVER WAS LOOKING AT -- OUT INTO THE STREET AT 11:00, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL, WHEN YOU AGREED WITH MR. PAVELIC THAT YOU HAD SEEN THE BRONCO AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, YOU WERE LYING, WEREN'T YOU? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT. YOUR HONOR, OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR, BECAUSE I NEVER TOLD HIM THAT I HAD SEEN IT AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, SIR. HE TOLD ME, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. AND WHEN HE TOLD YOU, YOU AGREED WITH HIM, DIDN'T YOU? A: IF HE SAID SO, SIR. Q: NOW, YOU'VE TOLD US HERE IN COURT THAT YOU HAD NOT WALKED THE DOGS AT 10:15 OR 10:20. A: YES, SIR. Q: BUT YOU TOLD MR. PAVELIC MORE THAN ONCE THAT YOU DID WALK THE DOG AT 10:15 OR 10:20, CORRECT? A: I TOLD HIM AFTER 10:00. I NEVER GAVE HIM THE EXACT TIME. Q: WELL, YOU JUST HEARD YOUR VOICE ON THE TAPE, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND DIDN'T YOU HEAR YOURSELF TELL MR. BILL THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG AT 10:15 OR 10:20? A: BUT AS I TOLD YOU, SIR, THAT I SAW MY CLOCK AT 10:00 O'CLOCK; AND AFTER THAT, I BOILED MY WATER AND I MADE MY TEA, I TOOK THE COLLAR OFF THE DOG, FEMALE CONNOTATION, AND I PUT THE LEASH ON AND THEN WE GO OUT. THE EXACT MINUTES I DON'T KNOW, SIR (IN BROKEN ENGLISH). Q: BUT YOU TOLD MR. BILL THAT YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT AT 10:15 OR 10:20, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: IF THAT WAS IT, SIR, THEN THE ENTIRE -- YOU CALCULATE IT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. MISS LOPEZ, YOU HEARD YOUR VOICE ON THE TAPE, RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DIDN'T YOU TELL MR. BILL THAT YOU TOOK THE DOG OUT FOR A WALK AT 10:15 OR 10:20? MR. COCHRAN: THE TAPE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, YOUR HONOR. ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: WELL, YES, BECAUSE I NEVER KNEW THE EXACT TIME. I SAID BETWEEN 10:15 AND 10:20. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. SO YOU DID SAY 10:15 AND 10:20? A: YES, BECAUSE I SAID AFTER 10:00. Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU SAID 10:15 OR 10:20, YOU SAID THAT KNOWING THAT YOU -- THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW THE EXACT TIME? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. SHE SAID AFTER 10:00. OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. MR. DARDEN: SHE JUST SAID THAT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, WHEN YOU SAID 10:15 OR 10:20, DID YOU SAY THAT KNOWING THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW THE EXACT TIME? MR. COCHRAN: ARGUMENTATIVE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: NOT AS IT'S PHRASED. OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR, BECAUSE I NEVER GAVE THE EXACT TIME, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AS A MATTER OF FACT, YOU TOLD MR. BILL THAT YOU TOOK MORE THAN ONE DOG OUT FOR A WALK, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: THERE'S ONLY ONE DOG IN THAT HOUSE, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, WHEN MR. BILL SAID OR RATHER ASKED YOU AT PAGE 10: "QUESTION: THEN AT ABOUT 10:15 OR 10:20, YOU TAKE THE DOGS FOR A WALK," YOUR RESPONSE IS, QUOTE, "TO A WALK, YES." MR. COCHRAN: MAY I BE HEARD, YOUR HONOR, ON THAT? UNFAIR. MIGHT I BE HEARD? OBJECTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN CLEAN IT UP ON CROSS-EXAMINATION IF YOU FEEL IT'S DIFFERENT. THE TAPE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: SO YOU AGREE WITH MR. BILL WHEN SAID THAT YOU ACTUALLY TOOK MORE THAN ONE DOG OUT FOR A WALK? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. MISSTATES. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DIDN'T YOU? A: SIR, THERE'S ONLY ONE DOG. HOW AM I GOING TO MAKE ONE MORE UP? MAYBE HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND ME, SIR. Q: WELL, YOU UNDERSTOOD HIM, DIDN'T YOU? A: A LITTLE, SIR. Q: ARE YOU SAYING NOW THAT YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE QUESTIONS MR. BILL ASKED YOU? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. IT'S VAGUE, ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I DIDN'T SAY ABOUT THE QUESTIONS. IT'S NOT THAT THEY SAY IT'S ABOUT THE DOGS. THEY ONLY HAVE ONE DOG AND YOU HAVE PROVEN THAT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AT ANY TIME THAT NIGHT OTHER THAN WHEN YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON DRIVE AWAY IN HIS CAR, DID YOU SEE MR. SIMPSON? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU DIDN'T SEE HIM PLAYING GOLF IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE THAT NIGHT? A: I'VE NEVER SAID THAT I'VE SEEN HIM PLAY GOLF. Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN HIM PLAY GOLF? A: I KNOW HE PLAYS GOLF BECAUSE MICHELLE TOLD ME, BUT I'VE NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY. Q: SO YOU DIDN'T SEE HIM PLAYING GOLF IN FRONT OF HIS HOUSE THAT NIGHT? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE, HE'S PLAYING GOLF. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH. MAY IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 9 -- THE COURT: 95. MR. DARDEN: 95. (PEO'S 95 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) MR. DARDEN: I'VE SHOWN IT TO DEFENSE COUNSEL. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, IF YOU WOULD JUST TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR FOR A MOMENT. IS THAT THE MAN THAT CAME TO YOUR HOUSE THE MORNING OF JUNE 13TH? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU WATCHED THIS MAN TESTIFY YOU SAY? A: I SAW PART OF IT, A LITTLE. Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU SEE THE PHOTOGRAPH HERE ON TELEVISION? A: I SAW HIM IN PERSON SITTING ON THE CHAIR, ON THIS CHAIR WHERE I AM, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND YOU SAW HIS NAME JUST LIKE IN THE PICTURE THERE? A: HE SAID SO, SIR. Q: WELL, DURING YOUR INTERVIEW WITH MR. PAVELIC, HE WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO MENTION THE NAME MARK FUHRMAN, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU COULDN'T RECALL THE DETECTIVE'S NAME, CORRECT? A: I COULDN'T PRONOUNCE THE LAST NAME, SIR. Q: SO THAT THE RECORD IS CLEAR, WAS 9:30 P.M. THE ONLY TIME THAT YOU HEARD FOOTSTEPS GOING IN THE DIRECTION OF THE AIR-CONDITIONER? A: THEY WERE IN THE DIRECTION OF THE GARAGE. Q: AND YOU TOLD MR. BILL THAT THE FOOTSTEPS WERE GOING IN THE DIRECTION OF THE AIR-CONDITIONER, RIGHT? MR. COCHRAN: BAD DIRECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: CORRECT? THE COURT: YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND WHEN YOU SAID THAT TO MR. BILL, DID YOU KNOW WHERE EXACTLY THE AIR-CONDITIONER WAS LOCATED? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU'VE SEEN THE AIR-CONDITIONER BEFORE? A: OH, YES, SIR. Q: BUT IT WAS MR. BILL WHO FIRST MENTIONED THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT, CORRECT? A: MAYBE HE WAS THE FIRST ONE TO MENTION IT, SIR. MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? I THINK I'M ALMOST DONE. PERHAPS I AM. THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, DID YOU SEE THE AIR CONDITIONING UNIT -- A: YES, SIR. Q: -- ON TELEVISION? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. BILL AND DURING YOUR DISCUSSIONS ABOUT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU TOLD MR. BILL THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN SEEMED TO BE A NICE MAN. MR. COCHRAN: WHAT PAGE? MR. DARDEN: PAGE 11, LINE 26 AND 27. THE COURT: TOLD PAVELIC THAT FUHRMAN WAS A NICE MAN. MR. COCHRAN: WHAT PAGE, WHAT LINE? THE COURT: BOTTOM LINE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: BUT YOU ONLY SPOKE TO HIM FOR 10 SECONDS, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, JUST A MOMENT. MISSTATES -- THAT MISSTATES THE TRANSCRIPT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING SAID THAT IT WAS -- HE WAS A NICE PERSON. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT HIM? A: I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT HIM, WHATEVER WAS CORRECT. Q: YOU DIDN'T TELL DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT YOU SAW THE BRONCO PARKED OUTSIDE AT 10:15? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. YOU DIDN'T TELL DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT YOU WALKED THE DOG SOMETIME AFTER 10:00 CLOCK? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. SHE WASN'T ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS. OBJECTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU DIDN'T TELL DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT YOU SAW MR. SIMPSON LEAVE WITH A BLOND-HAIRED PERSON? A: NO, SIR. Q: YOU DIDN'T TELL DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER? A: I DIDN'T SAY A PROWLER. I SAID FOOTSTEPS, SIR. Q: BUT YOU TOLD MR. BILL THAT YOU HEARD A PROWLER, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: I THINK WE'VE GONE OVER THIS. WE'VE GONE OVER THIS ALREADY. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: OKAY. ALL YOU TOLD MR. -- THE INTERPRETER: EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. I DIDN'T HEAR THE RULING OF THE COURT. THE COURT: WE HAVE GONE OVER THIS ALREADY. SUSTAINED. MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THE ONLY THING THAT YOU TOLD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN -- MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THIS QUESTION, THE ONLY THING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: -- WAS THAT YOU HEARD SOMEONE TALKING AT 9:00 O'CLOCK AND AT 11:00 O'CLOCK? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHAT COUNSEL IS READING. WE DON'T HAVE IT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T YOU APPROACH WITH THE -- MR. DARDEN: IT IS IN THE COURT'S TRANSCRIPT, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: I THOUGHT HE WAS READING NOTES IN FRONT OF HIM. THE COURT: REFERRING TO THE TRANSCRIPT? MR. DARDEN: YES, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: WHERE ARE YOU, COUNSEL? MR. DARDEN: PAGE 13, LINE 10. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: SO THE ONLY THING THAT YOU TOLD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN WAS THAT YOU HEARD SOMEBODY TALKING? A: I TOLD HIM THAT I HEARD VOICES AND THAT I HAD HEARD NOISES. Q: WELL, IT WAS MR. BILL WHO SUGGESTED TO YOU THAT YOU TOLD FUHRMAN THAT YOU HEARD NOISES? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. SHE JUST TESTIFIED -- ARGUMENTATIVE, THE FORM. MR. DARDEN: IT'S RIGHT THERE IN THE TRANSCRIPT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: WHAT WAS THAT? Q: BY MR. DARDEN: IT WAS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT SUGGESTED TO YOU -- I'M SORRY. I MISSPOKE. IT WAS MR. BILL THAT SUGGESTED TO YOU THAT YOU TOLD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT YOU HEARD SOME NOISES? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I WAS THE ONE THAT TOLD HIM SIR, NOT HIM. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU HEARD THE TAPE OF YOUR INTERVIEW WITH MR. PAVELIC, RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU HEAR YOURSELF STATE TO MR. BILL THAT YOU TOLD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT YOU HEARD SOMEBODY TALKING FROM 9:00 O'CLOCK TO 11:00 O'CLOCK? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND AFTER YOU SAID THAT -- MR. DARDEN: I'M DIRECTING COURT AND COUNSEL TO PAGE 13, LINE 13. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: AND AFTER YOU SAID THAT, MR. BILL ASKED: "SO YOU TOLD HIM THAT YOU HEARD SOME NOISES," AND YOU RESPONDED: "YES." MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO OBJECT. THAT'S NOT IMPEACHING, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. IS THERE A QUESTION AFTER THAT? THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: SO IT WAS MR. BILL WHO FIRST MENTIONED OR SUGGESTED THAT YOU TOLD FUHRMAN THAT YOU HEARD NOISES? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE. THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE, THE QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. I WAS THE ONE WHO TOLD HIM, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, THE NOISES THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO ARE THE VOICES YOU HEARD; IS THAT RIGHT? A: WHEN I SAY NOISES, THEY -- IT'S ABOUT FOOTSTEPS AND VOICES, SIR. I WAS REFERRING TO WHAT I HAD HEARD, SIR. Q: WELL, YOU NEVER TOLD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THAT YOU HEARD FOOTSTEPS? A: HE NEVER ASKED ME, SIR. THE INTERPRETER: I AM SORRY. I DIDN'T GET THAT COMPLETE QUESTION. YOU NEVER TOLD DETECTIVE FUHRMAN -- Q: BY MR. DARDEN: THAT YOU HEARD FOOTSTEPS. A: BECAUSE HE DIDN'T ASK ME. Q: OKAY. NOW, DID MICHELLE ASK YOU IF YOU HEARD FOOTSTEPS? A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF SHE ASKED ME. Q: OKAY. NOW, HOW MANY DAYS AFTER THE MURDER OF NICOLE BROWN AND RON GOLDMAN WAS IT THAT YOU SPOKE TO MICHELLE? A: A FEW DAYS AFTER. Q: OKAY. WOULD THAT BE TWO OR THREE DAYS AFTER? A: I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: WOULD IT BE SOMETHING LIKE TWO OR THREE DAYS? A: IT'S THAT I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. Q: COULD IT HAVE BEEN AS LONG AS A WEEK AFTER THE MURDERS? A: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. Q: BUT IT WAS SHORTLY AFTER? A: A LITTLE AFTER THAT, YES. Q: OKAY. AND THEN IT WAS WHAT, JULY 29 THAT YOU FIRST SPOKE TO MR. BILL? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND SO SEVERAL WEEKS TRANSPIRED BETWEEN THE TIME THAT YOU SPOKE TO MICHELLE AND YOUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. BILL? A: YES. ABOUT -- MAYBE, SIR. Q: AND YOUR MEMORY BEGAN TO FADE DURING THAT TIME PERIOD, RIGHT? A: I DON'T THINK MY MEMORY FAILS ME, SIR. Q: I AM SORRY. WHAT WAS THAT ANSWER? A: I DON'T THINK MY MEMORY FAILS ME, SIR. AND IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER, ANYBODY CAN SAY, "I DON'T REMEMBER," AND IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER, YOU DON'T REMEMBER. IT'S NOT THAT IT FAILS ME. Q: YOU SAW OR RATHER YOU HAD THE INTERPRETER READ TO YOU THE REPORT PREPARED BY MR. BILL ON JULY 29, 1994. A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THAT REPORT MENTIONS SYLVIA, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND IT'S YOUR TESTIMONY THAT YOU DID NOT MENTION SYLVIA'S NAME TO MR. BILL DURING THAT JULY 29 INTERVIEW? A: NO, SIR. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU TELL MR. BILL ABOUT SYLVIA DURING A PHONE CALL? A: I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: DID YOU TELL MICHELLE ABOUT SYLVIA? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID YOU TELL SYLVIA THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED HER NAME TO MR. SIMPSON'S LAWYERS? A: I DIDN'T TELL HER THAT I HAVE MENTIONED HER NAME. SHE SAID THAT I DIDN'T WANT TO -- SHE DIDN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THE CRIME. Q: SHE TOLD YOU THAT SHE WAS NOT WITH YOU AT 8:30 OR AT 9:00 O'CLOCK, RIGHT? A: THAT'S WHAT SHE SAYS, SIR, BUT SHE WAS RIGHT THERE AT MY HOUSE. Q: WELL, HAVE YOU HEARD THE TAPED INTERVIEW SYLVIA HAD? A: YES, SIR. Q: THE INTERVIEW SHE HAD WITH THE DETECTIVES? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND DURING THAT INTERVIEW, SYLVIA STATED -- A: YES, SIR. Q: -- THAT YOU TOLD HER THAT THE LAWYERS WERE GOING TO GIVE YOU $5,000 AND THAT SHE COULD ALSO GET $5,000 IF SHE TESTIFIED FOR MR. SIMPSON. A: I NEVER SAID THAT, SIR, TO HER. Q: SYLVIA IS LYING? A: 100 PERCENT, SIR. Q: AND YOU'RE TELLING THE TRUTH? A: YES, SIR. Q: 100 PERCENT? A: YES, SIR. MR. DARDEN: THAT'S ALL I HAVE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: MAY I JUST HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. HOLD ON. UN POQUITO. DO YOU WANT -- GIVEN THE HOUR -- THREE MINUTES. MR. COCHRAN: MAYBE WE SHOULD -- WHAT TIME DOES THE COURT WANT US BACK? THE COURT: WELL, LOOKS LIKE 1:30. MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH JUST A MOMENT? THE COURT: SURE. (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK FOR THE LUNCH HOUR. WE WILL FINISH THIS AFTERNOON. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE ORDERED TO COME BACK AT 1:30. MISS HAMBURGER, MR. JONES, 1:30. THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, SIR. THE COURT: WE'LL BE IN RECESS UNTIL 1:30. (AT 11:50 A.M., THE NOON RECESS WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.) LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; FRIDAY, MARCH 3, 1995 1:35 P.M. DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.) (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT WITH HIS COUNSEL. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED. MR. DARDEN, I DON'T SEE MISS CLARK. MR. DARDEN: SHE WILL BE LATE, YOUR HONOR, BUT WE ARE READY TO PROCEED. ROSA MARIA LOPEZ, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE NOON RECESS, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS: THE COURT: THE RECORD WILL REFLECT THAT ROSA LOPEZ IS STILL ON THE WITNESS. GOOD AFTERNOON, MISS LOPEZ. THE WITNESS: GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR. THE COURT: MRS. LOPEZ, YOU ARE REMINDED THAT YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I HAD ONE QUESTION ON SCOPE IF THE COURT RECALLS. THE COURT: YES. LET ME SEE COUNSEL AT THE SIDE BAR WITH THE REPORTER AND MR. JONES. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:) THE COURT: WE ARE OVER HERE AT THE SIDE BAR AND YOU'VE GOT YOUR MICROPHONE TURNED OFF? MR. COCHRAN: NO, I DON'T. CAN YOU TURN IT OFF? THE COURT: OKAY. MR. BAILEY: YOU DID. THE COURT: YOUR QUESTION WAS WHAT, MR. COCHRAN? MR. COCHRAN: MY QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, WAS -- HAD TO DO WITH -- THERE WAS A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS STILL ON THE RECORD WITH REGARD TO HER DRIVER'S LICENSE BEING DATED JANUARY 6, 1945. THAT IS IN FACT HER BIRTHDAY AND I BELIEVE THERE WAS A REASONABLE AND LOGICAL EXPLANATION, BUT I DON'T KNOW THE ARRANGEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN WORKED OUT AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS GOING TO BE STRICKEN BASED UPON THE AGREEMENT, BECAUSE I HAD ASKED IF THE COURT STRIKES ANY QUESTIONS RELATING TO THE DATE ON THE DRIVER'S LICENSE, THEN I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO IT, BUT IT IS STILL GOING TO BE ON THERE. I WANT TO ASK LEAVE TO ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THIS CAME ABOUT. THE COURT: UH-HUH. MR. COCHRAN: IF MR. JONES HAS NO OBJECTION. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. DARDEN: WELL, THAT -- THAT DEPENDS ON MR. JONES, BUT THERE IS AN ISSUE AS WELL, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, AS TO THE DOB SHE HAS GIVEN SOCIAL SECURITY AS WELL, SO -- WHICH I'M NOT GOING INTO. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. WELL, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE LICENSE BECAUSE THAT IS ON THE RECORD NOW. MR. DARDEN: IF WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO MAKE AN ISSUE OF BIRTHDATES AND INFORMATION SHE PUT ON OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS -- THE COURT: MR. JONES. MR. BAILEY: CAN WE AGREE TO STRIKE? MR. COCHRAN: ONLY A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. MR. BAILEY: DO YOU WANT THE JURY TO HEAR IT? MR. DARDEN: HEAR WHAT? MR. BAILEY: THE QUESTION YOU YOU PUT TO HER? THE COURT: MR. JONES, WHAT IS YOUR CLIENT'S POSITION? MR. JONES: YOUR HONOR, ABSENT A GRANT OF IMMUNITY, I WOULD ADVISE HER NOT TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING HER DATE OF BIRTH UNLESS MR. DARDEN REPRESENTS THAT HE WILL NOT REVISIT THE AREA ON RECROSS. THE COURT: MR. DARDEN. MR. DARDEN: WELL, I'M NOT ABOUT TO GRANT MISS LOPEZ IMMUNITY, AND AS FAR AS STRIKING THE TESTIMONY, IT ALL HAS TO BE STRICKEN ONE WOULD THINK. THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, THE PROPOSAL BY MR. JONES IS THAT HE WOULD NOT OBJECT TO THE QUESTIONS BY MR. COCHRAN ON REDIRECT IF THERE IS NO RECROSS ON THAT MATTER. MR. DARDEN: OKAY. WELL -- MR. COCHRAN: CAN I JUST TELL YOU WHAT THE QUESTIONS ARE? THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: SO YOU KNOW, THAT AS I UNDERSTAND THE RECORD NOW, THERE IS SOME INDICATION THAT YOU HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE AND THE DATE OF BIRTH IS JANUARY 6, 1945, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I HAVEN'T SEEN THE TRANSCRIPT. SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. AS I UNDERSTAND IT, SHE HAS AN EXPLANATION FOR HOW THIS CAME ABOUT, THAT SHE TRIED TO STRAIGHTEN IT OUT AFTER SHE FOUND HER LICENSE CAME WITH '45. SHE SAID '48 AND THEY SAID DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. SO THERE IS A REAL QUESTION HOW THIS HAPPENS. IF THE QUESTION REMAINS BEFORE THE COURT, WE SHOULD HAVE A RIGHT TO GO INTO IT AND THAT IS WHY I WANT MR. JONES HERE AND I WANT TO HEAR HER EXPLANATION WITHOUT GOING INTO ANYTHING FURTHER; NOT TALKING ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY, NOTHING DOING ANYTHING LIKE THAT. MR. DARDEN: BUT I WILL. IF SHE GOES BACK INTO THE BIRTHDAY ISSUE AND SHE CLAIMS IT IS AN INNOCENT MISTAKE, I'M GOING TO ASK HER ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY AND WHETHER OR NOT SHE HAD A DISPUTE WITH SOCIAL SECURITY REGARDING HER DIFFERENT BIRTHDATES. THE COURT: WELL, I GUESS THE DEAL IS THEN THAT IF YOU GO INTO IT, MR. JONES IS LIKELY TO INTERPOSE AN OBJECTION UNDER THE 5TH AMENDMENT, AND BECAUSE MR. DARDEN IS INDICATING THAT HE IS -- IF THAT DOES COME UP ON REDIRECT, HE IS GOING TO REVISIT IT WITH ADDITIONAL THINGS, SO -- (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. COCHRAN: IF THE COURT SEES THE PROBLEM HERE -- THE COURT: YOU SEE, THAT IS AN ARGUMENT WE CAN TAKE UP LATER. MR. COCHRAN: WELL -- THE COURT: -- WHETHER OR NOT -- MR. COCHRAN: WELL, YOU CAN SEE THE FUNDAMENTAL UNFAIRNESS IN THIS. I DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING TO PREJUDICE THIS CLIENT, BUT THEN I'M NOT WAIVING THAT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE HER HERE, LET'S ASSUME. WE MAKE THE JUDGMENT OF PUTTING THIS TAPE TOGETHER SO WHY WOULDN'T THE COURT LET ME ASK THOSE COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND HEAR IT ALL AT ONE TIME AND PRECLUDE IT FROM GOING ANY FURTHER IF I JUST ASK THIS ONE AREA? THE COURT: HERE IS THE PROBLEM: IF YOU ASK THE QUESTIONS AND MR. JONES INTERPOSES THE OBJECTION, I HAVE TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION. MR. COCHRAN: BUT ISN'T IT ON THE PEOPLE, THOUGH? THEY HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO ASK THOSE -- THOSE -- THOSE COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. THE COURT: WELL, HERE IS THE PROBLEM, THOUGH: AS SOON AS THE QUESTION AND ANSWER CAME OUT AND I REALIZED WHAT IT WAS -- I DIDN'T KNOW THE QUESTION WAS COMING. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. I UNDERSTAND. THE COURT: WHEN THE QUESTION AND ANSWER WENT BY, THAT IS WHEN I JUMPED IN AND STOPPED IT. MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOU DID, AND MISS HAMBURGER WAS THERE. I'M GOING TO MOVE, AND YOU CAN TAKE IT UNDER SUBMISSION, TO STRIKE THOSE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. MR. DARDEN: AND I WILL MOVE TO STRIKE THE ENTIRE TESTIMONY. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO FULL AND COMPLETE CROSS-EXAMINATION AND THIS DOES WEIGH HEAVILY ON HER CREDIBILITY. THE COURT: I WOULD SUGGEST WE WILL DO THIS THEN: I WOULD SUGGEST THAT SINCE THIS IS A CONDITIONAL EXAMINATION, NOT BEFORE THE JURY, WHAT WE CAN DO IS -- WELL, THE PROBLEM IS, THOUGH, IF MR. JONES INTERPOSES A FIFTH AMENDMENT OBJECTION, THEN THERE IS NOTHING MUCH I CAN DO BEYOND THAT POINT. I CAN'T FORCE HER TO TESTIFY. MR. DARDEN: AND IF THERE IS AN OBJECTION DURING MY RECROSS-EXAMINATION ON THOSE SAME AREAS, THEN I'M GOING TO MOVE TO STRIKE IT ALL. MR. COCHRAN: HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO DO. THAT DOESN'T BOTHER ME WHAT HE MOVES, BUT THE COURT SEES WHAT THE PROBLEM IS. THE COURT: I SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, BUT I DON'T SEE A SIMPLE SOLUTION. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I THINK MAYBE BE THE SIMPLE SOLUTION WOULD BE FOR THE COURT TO STRIKE THOSE TWO QUESTIONS, THE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS COMING. HE BRINGS IT OUT AND THEN YOU DID THE RIGHT THING, SHE HAD COUNSEL SITTING IN THE BACK AND THEN AN ACCOMMODATION WAS STRUCK, AND I'M JUST TRYING TO GET IN THE RECORD WHAT IS REASONABLE BEFORE THE JURY. THAT IS WHAT THE COURT I'M SURE WANTS. THE COURT: WELL, I DON'T HAVE TO STRIKE IT AT THIS POINT. MR. JONES. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. COCHRAN: WELL, RATHER THAN HAVE -- I WOULD NOT RATHER DO THAT IN OPEN COURT, THOUGH, SINCE WE KNOW THERE IS GOING TO BE AN OBJECTION. MAY I MAKE AN OFFER OF PROOF NOW? THE COURT: OKAY. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THE OFFER OF PROOF, AS I UNDERSTAND IT -- MAY I HAVE JUST A SECOND? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. COCHRAN AND MR. JONES.) MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. WHEN SHE -- AS I UNDERSTAND IT, AFTER CONFERRING WITH MR. JONES, WHEN SHE FILLED OUT THE DRIVER'S LICENSE APPLICATION SHE WAS GETTING SOME HELP AND THERE WAS A LANGUAGE PROBLEM AND THEN PUT ON THE YEAR '45 AS OPPOSED TO '38. WHEN SHE RECEIVED HER LICENSE AND SAW IT SAID '45, SHE CALLED AND SAID DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT, WOMEN DO THIS ALL THE TIME, AND SHE NEVER HAD IT CHANGED, BUT SHE DOESN'T TRY TO RUN FROM WHATEVER HER DATE OF BIRTH IS, SO THAT IS THE OFFER OF PROOF. MR. DARDEN: OKAY. I'M GOING TO COME BACK AND SAY, OKAY, WHAT HAPPENED WITH SOCIAL SECURITY? ALSO, IN LOOKING AT THE PRINTOUT THAT I HAVE, I WAS LOOKING AT IT BEFORE I CAME DOWN, AND IT SHOWS ROSA LOPEZ WITH A 1/6/42 BIRTHDAY AND A CII NUMBER, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS MISS LOPEZ OR NOT, BUT IT HAS THE SAME HEIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: VERY COMMON NAME. MR. DARDEN: SAME HEIGHT AND IT FITS HER PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION. MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS A LOT OF ROSA LOPEZES. EVERY NIGHT ONE LEAVES ON TACA. THE COURT: I WOULD IMAGINE. MR. DARDEN: SURE. MR. JONES: YOUR HONOR, IS IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO ASSERT THE PRIVILEGE AT THIS TIME OR REACH SOME AGREEMENT THAT WE WILL NOT GO INTO THAT AREA? I THINK SHE HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS WITHOUT ME VOICING CONCERN OVER SELF-INCRIMINATION ON NATIONAL TELEVISION. THE COURT: WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO DO IT, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HAVE THE QUESTION POSED BEFORE YOU CAN -- YOU CAN POSE THE OBJECTION. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I MADE MY OFFER OF PROOF AND SO I THINK WHAT HE IS SAYING IS THAT MR. DARDEN -- IF I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO -- THE COURT: IF YOU DON'T GO INTO IT, THEN WE DON'T HAVE THE PROBLEM. MR. DARDEN: SHE HAS TO ASSERT THE PRIVILEGE UNDER OATH. MR. COCHRAN: HE HAS MISSED THE WHOLE POINT. MR. DARDEN: I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN YOU MAY COMMENCE YOUR REDIRECT. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: GOOD AFTERNOON, MISS LOPEZ. A: GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR. Q: MISS LOPEZ, HOW DO YOU FEEL? A: VERY TIRED. Q: VERY WELL. WE WILL TRY NOT TO TAKE TOO MUCH TIME THIS AFTERNOON. A: OKAY. THANK YOU. Q: MISS LOPEZ, DURING YOUR EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN, ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS YOU WOULD SAY "I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THAT" OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT. WHEN YOU SAID THAT WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT TERM, "I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THAT"? A: IN MY -- IN OUR LATIN COUNTRIES WE SPEAK DIFFERENT DIALECTS, SIR, AND WHEN I'M SAYING "I DON'T REMEMBER," I AM SAYING "NO." Q: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS COMMON TO YOUR PARTICULAR COUNTRY, EL SALVADOR? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, MISS LOPEZ, YOU WERE ASKED BY -- ASKED SOME QUESTIONS BY MR. DARDEN REGARDING AN UNEMPLOYMENT FORM AND YOU INDICATED THAT ON THAT FORM THE ADDRESS THAT YOU USED WAS YOUR SON'S ADDRESS, IF YOU RECALL. A: YES, SIR. Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHY YOU USED YOUR SON'S ADDRESS? A: BECAUSE MY SON, HIS MAILBOX HAS A LOCK, YOUR HONOR. Q: AND WHAT ABOUT -- DOES YOUR DAUGHTER'S MAILBOX HAVE A LOCK ON IT? A: NO, SIR. Q: HAS SHE EVER HAD ANY PROBLEM WITH HER MAIL? A: YES, SIR. Q: WHAT WERE THE PROBLEMS, IF ANY, IF YOU CAN TELL US? A: TOO MANY CHILDREN FROM AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD PLAY AROUND AND THEY OPEN THE MAILBOXES, AND EVEN THE GROWN-UPS. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, ARE YOU PRESENTLY COLLECTING UNEMPLOYMENT AT ALL? A: NO, SIR. Q: YOU PREVIOUSLY TOLD US THAT YOU HAVE WORKED A NUMBER OF YEARS IN YOUR LIFE, PERHAPS BETWEEN FORTY AND FIFTY YEARS. AND DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME, MISS LOPEZ, HOW LONG, IF ANY, HAVE YOU EVER COLLECTED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: ONLY ONCE, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND FOR HOW LONG DID YOU COLLECT UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS? A: FOR ABOUT THREE MONTHS OR TWO MONTHS. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: AND IS THAT ALL? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, MR. DARDEN MENTIONED THE FACT THAT YOU MENTIONED SOME OTHER NAMES ASSOCIATED WITH YOU. A: YES, SIR. Q: HE MENTIONED THE NAME REYES. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HE MENTIONED THE NAME LOPEZ. A: YES, SIR. Q: DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND I BELIEVE -- AND I BELIEVE HE MENTIONED THE NAME MARTINEZ. A: YES, SIR. Q: CAN YOU EXPLAIN FOR THE COURT AT THIS POINT WHAT NAMES YOU HAVE AND HOW THEY WERE GIVEN TO YOU? A: REYES WAS GIVEN TO ME BECAUSE I WAS BORN ON JANUARY 6TH. Q: AND IS JANUARY 6TH THE DATE THAT THE WISE MEN CAME, CALLED EPIPHANY, THE DATE OF EPIPHANY? A: YES, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THE NAME LOPEZ? A: THAT IS MY MOTHER'S LAST NAME, SIR. Q: AND FINALLY THE NAME MARTINEZ? A: THAT'S MY FATHER, SIR. Q: AND WHAT NAME DO YOU GO BY NORMALLY? A: I USE ROSA MARIA LOPEZ, SIR. Q: NOW, BEFORE YOU CAME TO COURT LAST FRIDAY, ON THE DATE WE PROMISED WE WOULD FINISH WITH YOU LAST FRIDAY, CAN YOU TELL THE COURT WHERE YOU HAD BEEN, WITHOUT GIVING US THE NAME OF THE STATE, JUST PRIOR TO YOUR COMING BACK TO CALIFORNIA? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT. MR. COCHRAN: I WILL LINK IT UP, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: (IN ENGLISH) IN ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, SIR. MR. COCHRAN: SHE ALREADY GAVE US THE STATE. THE WITNESS: (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER) IN ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHEN HAD YOU GONE TO THIS OTHER STATE? THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I LEFT ON WEDNESDAY AT 1:00 P.M., SIR. Q: AND THAT WOULD BE WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 22; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HOW DID YOU GET TO THIS OTHER STATE? A: DRIVING, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU DRIVE WITH ANYONE ELSE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: JUST BY MYSELF, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHAT WERE YOU DRIVING AT THAT TIME? A: MY SMALL LITTLE CAR, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND ABOUT HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET FROM LOS ANGELES TO THIS OTHER STATE? MR. DARDEN: SAME OBJECTION. THE COURT: THAT IS -- MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO LINK IT UP. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LINK IT UP. MR. DARDEN: CAN I HAVE AN OFFER OF PROOF, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: TWO MORE QUESTIONS, MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I DIDN'T GET THE LAST ANSWER, YOUR HONOR. Q: HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET TO THE OTHER STATE? A: SIR, I LEFT AT 1:00 IN THE AFTERNOON. I STOPPED MY CAR FOR A LITTLE WHILE AT 3:30 IN THE MORNING. I GOT UP AT 4:30 IN THE MORNING AND I STARTED DRIVING AGAIN UP UNTIL 11:00 IN THE MORNING, SIR. Q: AND WHEN YOU SAID YOU GOT UP, WHERE DID YOU SLEEP? A: IN THE CAR, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO CALL BACK TO LOS ANGELES ON LAST THURSDAY, WHICH WAS THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 23RD, BECAUSE YOU WERE DUE IN COURT ON THE 24TH. THE INTERPRETER: WHAT DAY? MR. COCHRAN: SHE WAS DUE IN COURT ON FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 24TH. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND -- ALLOW ME A LITTLE INDULGENCE ON THIS. WHAT TIME DID YOU ARRIVE BACK IN LOS ANGELES? A: I WAS TOLD THAT AT 1:15. Q: AND HOW MUCH DID YOU SLEEP LAST FRIDAY MORNING? A: I LEFT THE AIRPORT -- I ARRIVED AT MY HOTEL AT 2:20 IN THE MORNING. Q: ALL RIGHT. HOW LONG DID YOU SLEEP, MA'AM? A: I WAS WOKEN UP AT 5:00 IN THE MORNING, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND BETWEEN THE TIME OF WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 22ND AND FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 24TH, HOW MANY HOURS DID YOU SLEEP, MA'AM? A: ABOUT THREE HOURS DURING THOSE TWO DAYS. Q: AND WHEN YOU CAME TO COURT LAST FRIDAY, WERE YOU TIRED AT ALL? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, I BELIEVE YOU SHARED WITH US THAT BEFORE YOU TALKED TO MR. PAVELIC YOU SPOKE TO SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF MICHELLE. A: YES, SIR. Q: AND AFTER YOU TALKED TO MICHELLE DID YOU TALK TO ANYONE ELSE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHO WAS THAT? A: MRS. CATHY. Q: AND THEN AFTER YOU TALKED TO CATHY, WHO DID YOU TALK TO, IF YOU RECALL? A: WITH BILL. Q: IS THAT MR. PAVELIC? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, YOU DESCRIBED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT YOU MET CATHY ON THE STREET, I BELIEVE IT WAS CLIFFWOOD. DO YOU RECALL THAT. MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. MR. COCHRAN: CLIFF SOMETHING. MR. DARDEN: SHE SAID CLIFFORD. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I DON'T -- THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHAT STREET, IF YOU RECALL, DID YOU MEET CATHY ON? A: (IN ENGLISH) ON CLIFFORD. THE WITNESS: (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER) CLIFFORD. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND -- ALL RIGHT. AND WHY DID YOU MEET HER ON THIS STREET CLIFFORD? A: BECAUSE THERE WERE MANY REPORTERS AND SHE TOLD ME THAT ALL OF THEM KNEW HER AND THAT -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, HEARSAY. MOTION TO STRIKE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU LEFT YOUR RESIDENCE, THE SALINGER'S RESIDENCE, AND YOU MET HER ON THIS STREET CLIFFORD; IS THAT CORRECT? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q: ON CLIFFORD; IS THAT CORRECT? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q: SALINGER'S? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED ON CLIFFORD DID YOU SEE ANY MEMBERS OF THE PRESS THERE? A: THERE WERE MANY. YES, THERE WERE. Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU TALKED TO MISS RANDA THERE OR DID YOU GO SOME OTHER PLACE? A: WE WENT TO MR. SIMPSON'S OFFICE. Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU SAW REPORTERS ON CLIFFORD ALSO? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU SEE ANY REPORTERS ON CLIFFORD ALSO? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, DID YOU MEET WITH ANY LAWYER IN CONNECTION WITH THIS CASE DURING THE YEAR 1994? A: NO, SIR. Q: ARE YOU ABLE TO READ ENGLISH? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q: VERY WELL? A: NO, SIR. MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION AS VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU WERE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT TELLING TIME. YOU ARE ABLE TO TELL TIME, ARE YOU NOT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHETHER -- YOU CAN TELL TIME WHETHER IT IS A DIGITAL CLOCK OR A REGULAR ELECTRIC CLOCK; IS THAT CORRECT? THE COURT: ANALOG. MR. COCHRAN: HUM? THE COURT: ANALOG. MR. COCHRAN: ANALOG, BETTER PUT, IF THAT TRANSLATES. MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THE QUESTION IS VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU DESCRIBED ON CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT YOU HAD SEEN MICHELLE SHORTLY AFTER SHE HAD BEEN STRUCK BY NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT MICHELLE WAS SLAPPED OR PUNCHED BY MISS SIMPSON? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, CALLS FOR HEARSAY. THE COURT: CALLS FOR SPECULATION. MR. COCHRAN: LET ME ASK THIS -- WITHDRAW THAT, YOUR HONOR. Q: AS YOU LOOKED AT MICHELLE, DID YOU SEE SOMETHING ON HER FACE WHICH INDICATED TO YOU THAT THERE WAS SOME MARK OR BRUISING ON HER FACE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, THAT IS LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID YOU NOTICE UNUSUAL ABOUT MICHELLE WHEN YOU SAW HER ON THIS OCCASION? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT IS LEADING ALSO. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: BECAUSE HER FACE WAS RED AND SHE WAS CRYING A LOT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU SEE HER A DAY OR SO AFTER THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID YOU NOTICE ABOUT HER FACE THEN? A: IT WAS SWOLLEN. Q: NOW, YOU INDICATED THAT LAST WEEKEND YOU CAME OVER TO MY LAW OFFICE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HOW DID YOU GET OVER THERE? A: PATTY TOOK ME THERE, MR. MC KENNA. Q: IS THAT PATTY MC KENNA? A: YES, SIR. Q: WHEN YOU LEFT WHEREVER YOU LEFT FROM, DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE BEING FOLLOWED? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND ONCE YOU ARRIVED AT THE LAW OFFICE, DID YOU STAY THERE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME? A: FOR A SHORT TIME. Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE AT THE LAW OFFICE, AT ANY TIME DID I EVER TELL YOU WHAT TO SAY WHEN YOU CAME TO COURT TO TESTIFY ON MONDAY? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID I EVER COACH YOU AS TO WHAT TO SAY? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, VAGUE AS TO "COACH." THE COURT: SUSTAIN. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY, YOUR HONOR. Q: DID I EVER AT ANY TIME TELL YOU WHAT I THOUGHT YOU SHOULD SAY OR RESPOND TO ANY PARTICULAR QUESTION? MR. DARDEN: ALSO LEADING, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: ONLY TO TELL THE TRUTH. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID I EVER GIVE YOU ANY SIGNAL OR HAND SIGNALS BETWEEN THE TWO OF US? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE AT THE OFFICE DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOU DID DURING MUCH OF THE TIME YOU WERE THERE? A: I WATCHED -- I WATCHED A LITTLE BIT OF T.V. AND I WAS TALKING WITH IRMA. Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DO ON LAST SATURDAY? A: MR. MC KENNA TOOK ME TO HIS APARTMENT. Q: WAS THAT AFTER YOU LEFT MY OFFICE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HOW LONG DID YOU STAY THERE? A: I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE I FELL ASLEEP IN THE CAR. Q: AND DID YOU GO SOMEPLACE AFTER THAT? A: TO THE HOTEL. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU EVER SEE THIS GENTLEMAN TO MY IMMEDIATE LEFT HERE, MR. CARL DOUGLAS, ON SUNDAY, LAST SUNDAY, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 26TH? DID CARL DOUGLAS EVER COME TO YOUR HOTEL ON THAT DATE? A: (IN ENGLISH) NO, SENOR. THE WITNESS: (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER) NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHAT DID YOU DO ON THAT SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 26TH? THE INTERPRETER: RESPECTFULLY, THE INTERPRETER WILL ASK PLEASE ALLOW ME TO COMPLETE MY INTERPRETATIONS. THERE ARE DATES THAT NEED TO BE WRITTEN, THERE ARE DAYS THAT HAVE TO BE WRITTEN, AND UNLESS I WRITE THEM DOWN I CANNOT GIVE YOU A PRECISE RENDITION OF THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE BEING ASKED. THE COURT: THANK YOU, MADAM INTERPRETER. MR. COCHRAN, AND MISS LOPEZ, WILL YOU PLEASE LET THE INTERPRETER FINISH INTERPRETING BEFORE YOU BEGIN YOUR ANSWER. MR. COCHRAN: LET ME ASK THE LAST QUESTION AGAIN. Q: DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT ON SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 1994, YOU SAW MR. CARL DOUGLAS, THE MAN TO MY IMMEDIATE RIGHT -- TO MY IMMEDIATE LEFT, AT YOUR HOTEL? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM AT ALL THAT DAY? A: NO, SIR. Q: DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOU DID ON SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 26TH? A: MY ATTORNEY'S WIFE ARRIVED, MR. CARL JONES' WIFE, MRS. BURGER -- Q: IS THAT HAMBURGER? A: HAMBURGER, YES. AND THEY TOOK ME SHOPPING, SIR, AT 10:00 IN THE MORNING. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH FOR JUST A MOMENT WITH THE REPORTER? THE COURT: SURE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:) THE COURT: OVER AT THE SIDE BAR. MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: YES, I HAD FORGOTTEN TO ASK, THE OTHER DAY MISS CLARK MADE A REPRESENTATION, YOUR HONOR, WITH REGARD TO WE HAD INDICATED THAT WE HAD HEARD THAT THE POLICE HAD TALKED TO OR INVESTIGATORS HAD TALKED TO SYLVIA AND WE HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THAT STATEMENT. SHE SAID IT WAS IN A CLUE OF SOME KIND, SO I EXPECTED TO GET IT AND WE STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN IT, SO I WOULD ASK DID THEY RECEIVE THAT. THE COURT: HAVE YOU GOT THE CLUE SHEET? MS. CLARK: I DO NOT. WE HAVE -- WE HAVE THE TAPE, RIGHT? MR. DARDEN: WELL, WHEN THEY SPOKE TO HER THE FIRST TIME WE HAD GOTTEN A CALL, A TELEPHONE CALL, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS A CLUE SHEET. IT IS A TELEPHONE CALL THAT CAME INTO THE PROSECUTION TEAM AND THEY WENT OUT THERE AND ASKED HER WHAT -- WHAT SHE KNEW AND SHE BASICALLY RECITED WHAT SHE DID RECITE ON THE TAPE, WHAT THE CONVERSATION WAS THAT SHE HAD WITH OUR INVESTIGATOR. THEY DIDN'T EVEN WRITE A REPORT ON IT. SHE SAID I DON'T KNOW ROSA, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, AND THAT IS WHERE WE LEFT IT, SO I CAN GO UP AND SEARCH FOR A -- MR. COCHRAN: WE WANT TO FINISH, BUT IT SOUNDS HIGHLY UNUSUAL WHEN SHE SAID I WAS OFFERED $5,000 AND SOMEBODY DIDN'T WRITE THAT DOWN. MS. CLARK: NO, SHE DIDN'T SAY THAT. MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING. MS. CLARK: IT IS ON THE FIRST -- IT IS ON YOUR TAPE. MR. COCHRAN: WE HAVE ANOTHER TAPE? MS. CLARK: SAME TAPE. ON THAT TAPE THEY GO OVER WHAT SHE HAD TOLD THEM AFTER THEY CONTACTED HER THE FIRST TIME AND SHE SAYS I WOULDN'T TELL YOU ANYTHING, AND THAT IS THE TRUTH. I MEAN, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED. MR. COCHRAN: SOMEBODY SAID SHE DIDN'T KNOW HER. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BUT THE QUESTION IS, IS THERE ANY PHONE MESSAGE OR ANYTHING WITH REGARDS TO THE TIP AND IS THERE ANY REPORT ABOUT GOING OUT TO TALK TO HER AND HER SAYING I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT NOTHIN'? MR. DARDEN: NONE THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN. MS. CLARK: OR I. MR. DARDEN: I ASKED THE INVESTIGATORS IF THEY WROTE A REPORT AND THEY SAID THEY HAD NOT WRITTEN A REPORT BECAUSE IT WAS -- IT WAS ONE OF MANY HUNDREDS OF -- MS. CLARK: ANONYMOUS. MR. DARDEN: DON'T KNOW THEM, NEVER TALKED TO THEM, NEVER HEARD IT; SO I WILL INQUIRE. I JUST NEED TIME TO -- THE COURT: THE PROBLEM IS WE'VE GOT THE WITNESS HERE. MR. DARDEN: GIVE ME TWO MINUTES, I WILL MAKE A PHONE CALL. MS. CLARK: I WILL DO IT. MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU WANT TO DO IT? MR. DARDEN: SEE IF WE CAN GET SOMEBODY HERE. MR. COCHRAN: I WILL GO INTO SOME OTHER AREAS AND COME BACK TO THAT AND MOVE ON. THE COURT: MARCIA, MAKE A PHONE CALL. MR. DARDEN: HIS SHIRT MATCHES HIS TIE. MS. CLARK: UNBELIEVABLE. MR. COCHRAN: SHE WANTS TO GET OUT OF HERE. I APPRECIATE THE COMPLIMENTS, BUT MAY WE RESUME? THE COURT: YES. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) MR. DARDEN: JUDGE, CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT BEFORE WE START? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. DARDEN: CAN I STEP OUT FOR ONE MOMENT? MR. COCHRAN: EVERYBODY IS GETTING FLOWERS, YOUR HONOR. MR. KARDASHIAN GOT SOME TODAY. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, WOULD YOU CHECK THAT OUT THEN FOR US, PLEASE. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) THE COURT: THANK YOU. MR. COCHRAN, WOULD YOU CONTINUE, PLEASE. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. Q: DURING CROSS-EXAMINATION, MISS LOPEZ, DO YOU RECALL SEEING A BRIEF VIDEOTAPE, I BELIEVE INVOLVING A REPORTER FROM KABC CHANNEL 7? A: UMM, I DON'T KNOW WHAT CHANNEL IT WAS. I SAW MYSELF ON T.V. AND THAT'S ALL. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DURING THAT BRIEF VIDEO CLIP, IN SEEING THAT DID IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION ABOUT A CONVERSATION THAT YOU HAD WITH A REPORTER SHORTLY AFTER JUNE 12, 1994? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND IN THAT TAPE DID YOU TALK TO THAT REPORTER ABOUT NOISES THAT YOU HEARD IN THE LATE EVENING HOURS OF JUNE 12TH AND THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13TH? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THE COURT: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION? MR. DARDEN: CALLS FOR HEARSAY. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD ALREADY THAT SHE TALKED TO THE REPORTER ABOUT EARLY MORNING NOISES. MR. COCHRAN: THE TAPE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, YOUR HONOR. I THINK I HAVE ACCURATELY STATED IT. IF NOT, I THINK I CAN REFRAME IT. THE COURT: I AM TRYING TO RECOLLECT WHAT EXACTLY IT WAS THAT WAS SAID. MR. COCHRAN: ABOUT NOISES? MR. DARDEN: TO THIS REPORTER? THE COURT: YES. MR. DARDEN: SHE SAID -- MR. COCHRAN: LET ME -- MR. DARDEN: SHE SAID SHE HEARD VOICES VERY, VERY LATE. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU RECALL SPEAKING TO A REPORTER AFTER SEEING THAT TAPE WHERE YOU -- WHEREIN YOU INDICATED THAT YOU RECALLED HEARING VOICES LATE ON JUNE 12, 1994? A: YES, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU EVER AT ANY TIME EVER TRIED TO SELL THE INFORMATION WHICH YOU HAVE TOLD US IN COURT HERE TO EITHER OF THE FOLLOWING PUBLICATIONS -- A: NO, SIR. Q: WELL, LET ME GIVE YOU THE PUBLICATIONS FIRST. THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER? A: NO, SIR. Q: THE GLOBE? A: NO, SIR. Q: OR THE STAR? A: NO, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO SELL WHAT YOU'VE HAD TO SAY FOR MONEY TO ANYONE? A: NO, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN OFFERED ANY MONEY BY ANY LAWYER IN THIS CASE AT ALL? A: NO, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN OFFERED ANY MONEY BY CATHY RANDA? A: NO, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN OFFERED ANY MONEY BY MICHELLE? A: NO, SIR. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE VOICES THAT YOU HEARD ON THE EVENING OF JUNE 12, 1994, CAN YOU SHARE WITH US AND TELL US THE APPROXIMATE TIMES THAT YOU RECALL HEARING THOSE VOICES? A: WELL, AT ABOUT 9:00, 9:45, 11:00. FROM 11:30 TO 12:30, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I NEVER SAID -- Q: IN THAT GENERAL TIME FRAME? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND IF YOU RECALL, WHOSE VOICE -- WHOSE VOICE OR VOICES DID YOU HEAR ABOUT 9:00, 9:45 I THINK YOU SAID? A: I HEARD MR. SIMPSON. Q: AND YOU MENTIONED HEARING VOICES I GUESS AFTER 11:30? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU RECOGNIZE ANY OF THOSE VOICES, MA'AM? A: NO, SIR. Q: WHEN YOU TESTIFIED EARLIER ABOUT HEARING FOOTSTEPS DURING THE EVENING AND YOU SAID YOU WERE AFRAID -- DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID THERE COME A TIME AFTER YOU HEARD THOSE FOOTSTEPS THAT YOU WEREN'T AFRAID ANY MORE? A: WHEN I HEARD THAT MR. SIMPSON CAME BACK TO THE HOUSE. Q: AND WAS THAT BEFORE YOU WENT OUT TO WALK WITH THE DOG THE LAST TIME THAT EVENING? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, THAT IS LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: I SAID BEFORE -- WAS THAT BEFORE? THE COURT: LEADING. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. Q: WHEN WAS THAT WITH RELATION TO THE TIME THAT YOU WENT OUT TO WALK THE DOG FOR THE LAST TIME? A: I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THAT IT WAS AFTER 10:00, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND MR. SIMPSON RETURNED HOME ABOUT WHAT TIME, IF YOU RECALL? A: OH, 15 TO 9:00 OR 9:00, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU MEAN 15 TO 9:00 OR A LATER TIME? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHAT TIME DO YOU MEAN THAT MR. SIMPSON RETURNED HOME? MR. DARDEN: SAME OBJECTION. MR. COCHRAN: I'M ASKING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: AT ABOUT 9:00, 9:00. (IN ENGLISH) 9:30, 9:45. I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. THE WITNESS: (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER.) 9:30, 9:45. I DO NOT REMEMBER, SIR. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. Q: NOW, YOU WERE SHOWN A PICTURE OF A DETECTIVE MARLOW, I BELIEVE, AND ASKED WHETHER OR NOT YOU SAW THIS INDIVIDUAL ON OR ABOUT JUNE 28, 1994. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU RECOGNIZE EVER HAVING SEEN THAT MAN BEFORE? A: I DON'T REMEMBER WELL BECAUSE I DIDN'T SEE HIM. HE CAME TO THE HOUSE, BUT THE LADY MET HIM. Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU SAY "THE LADY," WHAT LADY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? A: MRS. SALINGER. Q: AND WAS THAT ON OR ABOUT JUNE 28? A: MORE OR LESS. I DON'T REMEMBER THE TIME -- THE DATE. Q: DID THE POLICE OFFICER WHO CAME AROUND THAT TIME EVER ASK TO SPEAK WITH YOU? A: NO, SIR. Q: YOU WERE SHOWN A COPY OF A PHONE BILL AND ASKED WHETHER OR NOT DURING THE WEEK OF JUNE 12, 1994, YOU HAD OCCASION TO CALL THE UNITED KINGDOM IN AN EFFORT TO REACH THE -- A: YES, SIR. Q: -- SALINGERS? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU EVER REACHED THEM? A: I DON'T REMEMBER IF I TALKED TO THEM, NO. I DON'T REMEMBER. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT TIMES. Q: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? A: THAT THE LADY SAYS THAT WHEN IT IS DAYTIME HERE, OVER THERE IT IS NIGHTTIME. Q: SO AS YOU SIT HERE NOW DO YOU RECALL ACTUALLY SPEAKING TO THEM ON THE PHONE WHILE THEY WERE IN EUROPE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE INTERPRETER: I DIDN'T GET THE LAST PART OF THAT QUESTION, MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY. Q: DO YOU EVER RECALL ACTUALLY SPEAKING TO THEM WHILE THEY WERE IN EUROPE? A: NO, SIR. Q: NOW, YOU WERE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT A LADY BY THE NAME OF SYLVIA WALKER. DO YOU RECALL THOSE QUESTIONS. MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, THAT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. IT IS SYLVIA ANNE WALKER. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, LET ME GIVE YOU THE FULL CORRECT NAME. Q: YOU WERE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT SYLVIA ANNE WALKER. DO YOU RECALL THOSE QUESTIONS? A: SLYVIANNE WALKER, YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU WERE FORMERLY EMPLOYED BY THE WALKERS, WERE YOU? A: YES, SIR. Q: DURING THE TIME THAT YOU WORKED FOR THE WALKERS, HOW LONG WAS THAT THAT YOU WORKED FOR THEM? A: I WORKED FOR HER FOR NINE YEARS. Q: AND DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME DID SHE EVER AT ANY TIME DEDUCT SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES FOR YOU? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. IT IS IRRELEVANT. MR. COCHRAN: IT IS RELEVANT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. DARDEN: CALLS FOR SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NEVER. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND DID YOU PAY YOUR OWN SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES DURING THAT TIME? A: I PAID, SIR. (IN ENGLISH) SOME. Q: NOW, HOW DID YOU GET ALONG WITH MR. WALKER, THE HUSBAND OF THIS FAMILY, DURING THIS TIME? A: VERY WELL, SIR. Q: AND HOW DID YOU GET ALONG WITH MISS SYLVIA ANNE WALKER? A: WELL, SOMETIMES FINE AND SOMETIMES WE WOULD ARGUE. (IN ENGLISH) THE HOUSEKEEPER, YOU KNOW. THE WITNESS: (THROUGH THE INTERPRETER) THE HOUSEKEEPER, YOU KNOW. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? A: THAT -- I HAVE BEEN WITH HER FOR A LONG TIME SO THERE WAS -- WE WERE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH EACH OTHER. Q: DID YOU EVER AT ANY TIME, MISS LOPEZ, TELL MISS WALKER THAT YOU WOULD TESTIFY FOR MR. SIMPSON ANYTIME OR ANYWHERE? A: NO, SIR. Q: DO YOU RECALL A CONVERSATION THAT YOU HAD WITH HER DURING THE MONTH OF AUGUST OF 1994? A: YES, SIR. Q: WOULD YOU TELL US WHAT YOU RECALL SAYING TO HER AT THAT TIME? A: IT WAS FOR ME TO PREPARE THE DINNER FOR HER HUSBAND'S BIRTHDAY. Q: DID YOU DO THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DURING THE COURSE OF THAT TIME FRAME, DURING AUGUST OF 1994, DID SHE EVER MAKE ANY STATEMENTS TO YOU ABOUT THE O.J. SIMPSON CASE? A: I DON'T REMEMBER. MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION AS HEARSAY. MR. COCHRAN: NO, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL WENT INTO THIS ON CROSS-EXAMINATION. I THINK THAT I SHOULD BE ABLE TO ELICIT THE RESPONSE, IF THE COURT PLEASES. THE COURT: WHAT SYLVIA WALKER SAID TO HER? MR. COCHRAN: SYLVIANNE WALKER'S RESPONSE TO WHAT -- YES, YOUR HONOR. I HAVE AN OFFER OF PROOF. MR. DARDEN: THE WITNESS HAS ANSWERED "I DON'T REMEMBER," WHICH MEANS "NO," AS I UNDERSTAND IT. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE OBJECTION IS OVERRULED. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q: DO YOU RECALL ANY CONVERSATION WITH MISS SYLVIA ANNE WALKER REGARDING THE O.J. SIMPSON CASE AT ALL? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU RECALL SAYING TO HER, IF ANYTHING, WHAT SHE SAID TO YOU? MR. DARDEN: HEARSAY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU HAVE NO RECOLLECTION OF THAT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU EVER AT ANY TIME SAY: "OH, SENORA, O.J. SIMPSON IS A GREAT GUY AND I WILL TESTIFY TO ANYTHING ANYTIME"? A: MAYBE I SAID THAT TO HER. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOLLECTION OF THAT? A: NO. Q: DID YOU EVER SAY OR DID SHE EVER RESPOND: "YEAH, ROSA, BUT -- SO I THOUGHT, FINE, HE'S A GREAT GUY, OKAY, AND THEN I SAID, WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK, MEANING DO YOU THINK HE DID IT" OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, THAT IS VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. COCHRAN: I QUOTED FROM THE -- MR. DARDEN: WHO IS TALKING? MR. COCHRAN: I CAN MAKE IT CLEARER. THE COURT: OVERRULED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION? THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. DID MISS WALKER EVER SAY TO YOU: "YEAH, ROSA" -- THE INTERPRETER: THE INTERPRETER WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A REQUEST. THE COURT: YES. THE INTERPRETER: IF YOU ARE READING FROM SOMETHING, MAY I SEE IT? MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY. MAY I APPROACH? THE COURT: YES. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. COCHRAN: MAY I PROCEED NOW, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES. MR. DARDEN, I MEAN, DID YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT -- MR. COCHRAN: LET ME START OVER, IF I MIGHT, YOUR HONOR. Q: DO YOU EVER RECALL MISS SYLVIA WALKER SAYING: "YEAH, ROSA, BUT SO I THOUGHT, FINE, HE'S A GREAT GUY, OKAY. AND THEN I SAID," MEANING SYLVIA WALKER," WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK, MEANING DO YOU THINK HE DID IT?" DO YOU EVER RECALL MISS SYLVIA ANNE WALKER MAKING THAT STATEMENT TO YOU? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE QUESTION IS VAGUE AND IT CALLS FOR SPECULATION. MISS WALKER WAS EXPRESSING HER OWN THOUGHTS. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHEN SHE SAID THAT TO YOU, DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOUR RESPONSE WAS, IF ANY? A: NO, I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: AND WHEN YOU TALKED TO MISS WALKER, DID YOU BELIEVE THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS GUILTY OF THESE CRIMES? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU DON'T RECALL ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THE CONVERSATION WITH HER? A: NO, SIR. Q: NOW, THIS MORNING YOU WERE SHOWN A NUMBER OF PHOTOGRAPHS BY MR. DARDEN. DO YOU RECALL THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS? A: YES, SIR. Q: I WANT TO SHOW YOU ONE THAT I DON'T THINK WE PUT ON THE ELMO, IF I CAN. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. COCHRAN: MAY I GET IT FROM THE CLERK? (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: JUST BEFORE WE PUT THAT ON -- MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, MAY THE RECORD REFLECT THAT THE PHOTOGRAPH WAS ALREADY PLACED ON THE MONITOR AND THE WITNESS GLANCED OVER AT IT? MR. COCHRAN: IT DOESN'T MATTER, YOUR HONOR. LET ME GO RIGHT TO -- YOU CAN PUT IT ON, MR. HARRIS. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR. Q: WITH REGARD -- MR. DARDEN DIDN'T SHOW THIS PHOTOGRAPH ON THE ELMO, SO I WILL ASK YOU, THE MARK -- THE RED MARK DOWN THAT I WILL TRY TO -- IF YOU CAN SEE -- CAN YOU -- CAN YOU STEP DOWN AND CAN YOU, WITH THE COURT'S PERMISSION, CAN YOU LOOK UP AT THIS RED MARK RIGHT THERE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WAS THAT MARK PLACED BY YOU THIS MORNING? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DOES THAT MARK INDICATE THE PLACE YOU WERE WHEN YOU LAST SAW THE BRONCO THAT PARTICULAR EVENING ON JUNE 12, 1994, MA'AM? A: THAT IS WHERE I WAS STANDING, SIR. Q: AND PRIOR TO BEING AT THAT LOCATION AT THE RED MARK ON -- YOUR HONOR, THIS IS PEOPLE'S 92-A, FOR THE RECORD -- PRIOR TO GOING TO THE RED MARK ON PEOPLE'S 92-A FOR IDENTIFICATION, WHEN YOU WERE WITH THE -- THIS DOG -- AND THERE WAS ONLY ONE DOG; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU WALK -- CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR THE COURT WHETHER OR NOT YOU WALKED BETWEEN THE TREES OR HOW, AND THE TREES ARE DEPICTED HERE ON 92-A BY RED ARROWS? A: I COULDN'T HAVE WALKED ON TOP OF THE TREES. I WALKED BETWEEN THE TREES. Q: ALL RIGHT. BETWEEN THE TWO TREES THAT YOU CAN SEE THERE ON THE MONITOR? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU HAD THE DOG ON A LEASH AT THAT TIME? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT THE DOG WAS PULLING YOU AT ALL? A: THE DOG ALWAYS PULLS, SIR. Q: AND DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT, WHILE YOU WERE OUT THERE ON THIS OCCASION, THAT YOU WALKED INTO SOME IVY OUT THERE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT IS LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE TO THE COURT WHERE THE DOG PULLED YOU, IF ANY PLACE? MR. DARDEN: SAME OBJECTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. THE DOG ALWAYS PULLS ME TOWARD THE STREET BECAUSE -- AND SINCE SHE NEVER GOES OUTSIDE, SHE LOVES GOING TO THE STREET. MR. COCHRAN: I MISSED THE LAST PART. SHE LOVES -- THE INTERPRETER: SHE LOVES GOING TO THE STREET. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU WOULDN'T LET THE DOG GO IN THE STREET, WOULD YOU? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND THIS WAS APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME ON JUNE 12, 1994, IN THE EVENING HOURS? A: AFTER 10:00, SIR. Q: AND IS THAT YOUR BEST RESPONSE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND YOU HAVE ALREADY DESCRIBED FOR US WHAT DID YOU BEFORE YOU CAME OUT OF THE HOUSE; IS THAT CORRECT? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE COURT: IT IS A "SO WHAT" QUESTION. NEVER MIND. GO AHEAD AND ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, YOU WERE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS BY MR. DARDEN ABOUT THE SALINGER'S CLOCKS. DO YOU RECALL THOSE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CLOCKS? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DURING THE WEEK OF JUNE 12, TO AT LEAST JUNE 17, 1994, THE SALINGERS WERE NOT AT HOME, WERE THEY? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND BEFORE YOU LEFT TO GO OUT TO WALK THE DOG THE LAST TIME THAT EVENING, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO LOOK AT BOTH CLOCKS INSIDE THE HOUSE, IF YOU RECALL? MR. DARDEN: LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q: WHAT CLOCKS, IF ANY, DID YOU LOOK AT BEFORE YOU WENT OUTSIDE FOR THE LAST TIME THAT EVENING? MR. DARDEN: SAME OBJECTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: THE ONE IN MY BEDROOM, SIR. Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU SEE ANY OTHER CLOCK? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: THE ONE IN THE KITCHEN, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. WHICH DID YOU SEE FIRST, IF YOU RECALL? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION AS VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: THE ONE IN MY BEDROOM, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT YOU SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS ON JUNE 13, 1994? THE COURT: AREN'T WE SORT OF MIXING APPLES AND ORANGES HERE? EARLY MORNING HOURS IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS CASE MEANS 1:00 OR 2:00 IN THE MORNING. MR. COCHRAN: YES. Q: IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT YOU SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AFTER EIGHT O'CLOCK A.M. ON JUNE 13, 1994? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. THAT IS LEADING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. DARDEN: CAN WE HAVE A FEW MOMENTS? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. DARDEN: CAN WE HAVE A PRIVATE CONVERSATION FOR A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, IS THIS PART OF THE DISCOVERY WE WERE TALKING ABOUT? THE COURT: COULD BE. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. DARDEN: WE HAVE ADDITIONAL DISCOVERY FOR MR. COCHRAN, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: I MIGHT NEED A FEW MINUTES NOW, BUT BEFORE I GET TO THAT POINT, LET ME PROCEED AND THEN GET TO THAT POINT. MAY I PROCEED, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YOU MAY, PLEASE. THANK YOU. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. COCHRAN: I WAS LISTENING TO COUNSEL. SHE WAS HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH HERSELF. THREW ME OFF. I'M TRYING TO FIND THE LAST QUESTION AND ANSWER, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: I THINK WE HAD JUST -- (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) THE COURT: ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND ABOUT TALKING TO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AFTER EIGHT O'CLOCK A.M. ON JUNE THE 13TH? LAST QUESTION. MR. COCHRAN: AND WAS THERE AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: NO, THERE WAS NOT. MR. COCHRAN: I WILL ASK IT AGAIN. MR. DARDEN: IS THAT OBJECTION OVERRULED? Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND -- THE COURT: I HAVE HEARD PROSECUTORS ASK THAT QUESTION, TOO. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT YOU SPOKE WITH AND SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AFTER EIGHT O'CLOCK ON JUNE 13, 1994? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND WHEN YOU SAW HIM AT THAT TIME AND YOU SPOKE WITH HIM, DID YOU SEE HIM WRITE ANY NOTES? A: NO, SIR. Q: IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND THAT YOU HEARD FOOTSTEPS DURING THE EVENING HOURS ON JUNE 12, 1994? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, LEADING. MR. COCHRAN: I SAID "ANY DOUBT," YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. DARDEN: MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ANY DOUBT THAT YOU HEARD VOICES THAT EVENING? MR. DARDEN: IT MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ANY DOUBT THAT YOU SAW THE BRONCO AFTER TEN O'CLOCK PARKED AT THE CURB THERE AT ROCKINGHAM? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND DID YOU HAVE OCCASION, MISS LOPEZ, TO SEE THAT BRONCO AFTER EIGHT O'CLOCK ON MONDAY, JUNE 13, 1994? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHERE WAS IT AT THAT TIME WHEN YOU SAW IT? A: IN THE SAME PLACE WHERE I HAD SEEN IT AT NIGHT, SIR. Q: WITH REGARD TO HOW IT WAS PARKED, DID IT SEEM TO BE PARKED IN THE SAME WAY? MR. DARDEN: LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: HOW WAS IT PARKED WHEN YOU SAW IT IN THE MORNING ON THE 13TH? A: SOMEWHAT CROOKED. Q: NOW, YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN EMPLOYED OR PAID BY MR. SIMPSON; IS THAT CORRECT? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND IN THE COURSE OF YOUR TESTIMONY OVER THE LAST SEVERAL DAYS, HAVE YOU TOLD US THE TRUTH? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND ARE YOU GETTING ANYTHING OUT OF TESTIFYING HERE TODAY? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, VAGUE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ARE YOU RECEIVING ANY COMPENSATION FOR TESTIFYING HERE TODAY? MR. DARDEN: SAME OBJECTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE COURT: YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU EXPECT TO BE PAID AT ANY TIME IN THE FUTURE? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION, VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO, SIR. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO NEED A FEW MINUTES TO REVIEW THIS DISCOVERY WE JUST GOT ON ONE LAST SUBJECT. IF THE COURT WANTS TO DO IT NOW I CAN -- THE COURT: BE MY GUEST. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. EXCUSE ME. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, MAY I MAKE A PHONE CALL BASED ON THE NEW DISCOVERY? THE COURT: SORRY? MR. SHAPIRO: MAY I MAKE A PHONE CALL BASED ON THIS DISCOVERY? (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. COCHRAN: CAN WE TAKE ABOUT A FIVE-MINUTE BREAK, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET'S TAKE OUR RECESS THEN AT THIS POINT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MISS LOPEZ, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A BRIEF RECESS TO ALLOW MR. COCHRAN AND THE ATTORNEYS TO READ THE RECORDS. YOU ARE ORDERED TO COME BACK AT THREE O'CLOCK. ALL RIGHT. THREE O'CLOCK. (RECESS.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT. MISS ROSA LOPEZ IS ON THE WITNESS STAND. GOOD AFTERNOON AGAIN, MISS LOPEZ. YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. THE WITNESS: GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR. THE COURT: AND, MR. COCHRAN, YOU MAY CONCLUDE YOUR REDIRECT. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: YOU ARE WELCOME. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: MISS LOPEZ, ARE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH A LADY BY THE NAME OF -- HER ENTIRE NAME IS APPARENTLY SYLVIA GUERRA? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND ABOUT HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN THIS LADY? A: ABOUT TWO YEARS. Q: AND DO YOU RECALL HOW YOU FIRST MET HER? A: AT THE BUS STOP. Q: AND DURING THE TWO YEARS THAT YOU'VE KNOWN HER, HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION TO GO TO THE PLACE WHERE SHE WORKS? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HAS SHE HAD OCCASION TO COME TO YOUR HOME WHERE YOU WORK -- WHERE YOU WORKED? A: A FEW TIMES. Q: AND WHAT, IF YOU RECALL, IS THE NAME OF THE FAMILY THAT SYLVIA WORKS FOR? A: KAPLAN. Q: DO YOU KNOW THEIR FIRST NAMES? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND YOU'VE BEEN TO THE KAPLAN'S HOME? A: YES, SIR. Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THAT HOME FOR US GENERALLY WITHOUT THE ADDRESS OR WHATEVER? MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THIS. THIS IS UNNECESSARY. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. CAN I LINK IT UP, YOUR HONOR? MAY WE APPROACH ON THAT POINT? MAY WE APPROACH? THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WITH THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:) THE COURT: WE ARE OVER AT THE SIDEBAR. WHAT'S THE RELEVANCE OF THIS? MR. COCHRAN: I THOUGHT THE STATEMENT OF SYLVIA WAS THAT ROSA HAD NEVER BEEN OVER TO HER PLACE AND I THINK I HAVE A RIGHT TO ESTABLISH SHE HAS BEEN OVER THERE LOTS OF TIME, HAS TALKED TO THE FAMILY. IT GOES TO HER CREDIBILITY. MR. DARDEN: YOU ARE ASKING IF SYLVIA'S BEEN TO ROSA'S OR ROSA'S BEEN TO SYLVIA'S? MR. COCHRAN: BOTH, EITHER WAY. MR. DARDEN: WELL I MEAN, THERE'S NO ISSUE. MR. COCHRAN: I THINK THERE IS AN ISSUE. MR. DARDEN: ROSA'S BEEN OVER TO SYLVIA'S HOME, SYLVIA HAS MADE THAT CLAIM, AND SHE JUST SAID THAT SHE HAD BEEN THERE. WHY DO WE HAVE TO DESCRIBE THE HOUSE AND SUBJECT KAPLAN AND OTHERS TO HARASSMENT, SCRUTINY BY -- MR. COCHRAN: ABSOLUTELY NOT. MR. DARDEN: -- SOMEONE ELSE? WHY GO INTO IT? MR. COCHRAN: ALL I WANT TO DO IS ESTABLISH SHE'S BEEN INSIDE THE HOUSE, BEEN THERE A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS. SHE CAN DESCRIBE THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE, NOT THE ADDRESS. I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE ISSUE. ALSO, THAT THIS OTHER LADY'S BEEN OVER HER HOME. THE COURT: DESCRIBE THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE? MR. COCHRAN: I'M NOT TALKING ADDRESS OR ANYTHING. MR. DARDEN: WELL, JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR, WE ACCEPT THE NOTION THAT SHE'S BEEN OVER TO SYLVIA'S HOUSE A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS. MR. COCHRAN: IN ADDITION TO THAT, SOMETHING LIKE -- THAT HE SAID -- HE ASKED -- MR. KAPLAN SAID, "GET OUT, DON'T COME OVER HERE," SOMETHING LIKE THAT. MR. DARDEN: HE OBJECTED. YOU SUSTAINED IT. MR. COCHRAN: I'LL BE BRIEF. MR. DARDEN: THE QUESTION WAS ASKED, BUT THE OBJECTION WAS SUSTAINED. THE COURT: THE ONLY THING WE NEED TO ASK IS, "HOW OFTEN HAVE YOU BEEN THERE," ASK HER TO DESCRIBE THE HOUSE, HOW MANY TIMES SHE'S BEEN INSIDE THE HOUSE. MR. COCHRAN: YES. THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: MISS LOPEZ, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE INTERIOR OF THE KAPLAN'S HOME FOR US? THE INTERPRETER: I'M SORRY. I'M SORRY. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU DESCRIBE -- THE INTERPRETER: INTERPRETER ERROR. INTERPRETER ERROR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: LET ME REPHRASE IT. MISS LOPEZ, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE INSIDE OF THE KAPLAN'S HOME FOR THE COURT? A: A LITTLE, SIR. Q: WOULD YOU PLEASE DO THAT? A: GLADLY. GLADLY. Q: GLADLY, WOULD YOU, PLEASE? PLEASE PROCEED. A: AT THE ENTRANCE PAST THE GARAGE, THERE'S THE LAUNDRY ROOM. AFTER THAT, THERE'S SYLVIA'S ROOM. IN FRONT OF HER ROOM, THERE IS HER BATHROOM. AFTER THAT, THERE'S THE KITCHEN. AND AFTER THE KITCHEN, THERE IS THE DINING ROOM LET'S SAY AND THERE'S ALSO A ROOM THERE WHERE THEY PLAY POOL AND THEN THERE'S A ROOM FOR EXERCISE, AND NEXT TO THAT ROOM, THERE IS THE ROOM OF ONE OF THEIR CHILDREN, AND FROM THERE YOU CAN GO TO THE BIG LIVING ROOM WHERE THEY HAVE A TELEVISION SET. Q: ALL RIGHT. IS THIS A ONE-STORY OR TWO-STORY HOUSE, IF YOU RECALL? A: ONE FLOOR, SIR. Q: AND DO YOU RECALL ANYTHING ABOUT THE FLOORING IN THE HOUSE? WHAT KIND OF FLOORS DOES THE HOUSE HAVE? A: AROUND THE KITCHEN AND THE DINING ROOM, IT IS WOOD, SIR. Q: NOW, YOU'VE TOLD US YOU'VE BEEN TO THE KAPLAN'S HOUSE ON SOME OCCASIONS. HAVE YOU EVER HAD OCCASION TO MEET ANY OF THE FAMILY MEMBERS? MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD OBJECT. HOW IS THIS RELEVANT? MR. COCHRAN: I'LL LINK IT UP, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHICH FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE YOU MET? MR. DARDEN: OBJECT TO DISCLOSING THE NAMES OF THE KAPLAN CHILDREN. MR. COCHRAN: I DON'T -- I DON'T -- I DON'T -- Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE THE NAMES. SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO GIVE THE NAMES. THE COURT: HOW DO WE DO THIS WITHOUT GIVING THEIR NAMES? MR. COCHRAN: WELL, LET ME ASK ANOTHER QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO THE KAPLAN'S HAVE CHILDREN? A: YES, SIR. Q: ARE THEY OF THE SAME SEX OR DIFFERENT SEX? A: DIFFERENT SEX, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION TO MEET THE FEMALE CHILD? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SEEN THAT CHILD? A: SEVERAL TIMES. Q: HAVE YOU HAD OCCASION TO MEET THE MALE CHILD? A: THEY'RE BIG. THEY'RE ALREADY MEN. Q: ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU MET THEM THOUGH? A: YES. I HAVE SEEN THEM. Q: AND HAVE YOU MET MR. AND MRS. KAPLAN? A: YES. THEY ARE VERY KIND PEOPLE. THEY ARE VERY KIND PEOPLE. Q: NOW, DURING THE TWO-YEAR PERIOD OF TIME THAT YOU'VE KNOWN SYLVIA, WOULD THE TWO OF YOU TALK ON THE PHONE? A: EVERY DAY. Q: AND WERE THERE OCCASIONS WHEN SHE, WHEN SYLVIA WOULD COME OVER TO YOUR PLACE, THE SALINGER'S PLACE? A: YES, SIR. Q: DID YOU HAVE AN OCCASION TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH SYLVIA GUERRA SOMETIME TOWARD THE END OF JANUARY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT SHE WANTED TO BECOME INVOLVED IN THIS CASE AT ALL? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. IT'S LEADING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. DARDEN: CALLS FOR HEARSAY. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHAT WAS THAT CONVERSATION ABOUT? MR. DARDEN: HEARSAY. OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: I COULDN'T HEAR YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: CAN I ASK THIS QUESTION? Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION AT THAT TIME? THE COURT: SHE INDICATED SHE DID. SHE SAID SHE DID HAVE A CONVERSATION. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, HAVE YOU EVER AT ANY TIME SAID TO SYLVIA THAT YOU WERE GOING TO RECEIVE $5,000 FOR YOUR TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE? A: I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT TO HER, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU EVER AT ANY TIME SAID TO SYLVIA THAT IF SHE WOULD TESTIFY IN THIS CASE, SHE WOULD RECEIVE $5,000? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID YOU AND SYLVIA EXCHANGE CHRISTMAS GIFTS THIS PAST CHRISTMAS IN 1994? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WHAT COUNTRY IS SYLVIA FROM? A: FROM GUATEMALA. Q: DOES SHE HAVE ANY CHILDREN? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: AGAIN, IT WILL BE RELEVANT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: VAGUELY. YES, YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: SHE HAS TWO. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND DOES SHE HAVE ANY PARENTS HERE -- MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DOES SHE HAVE PARENTS IN THE UNITED STATES? THE COURT: THAT'S IRRELEVANT. THAT'S IRRELEVANT. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU WERE ASKED A QUESTION OF WHETHER YOU'VE RIDDEN IN A LIMOUSINE LAST NIGHT WHEN YOU LEFT COURT. HAVE YOU RIDDEN IN ANY LIMOUSINES AT ALL SINCE YOU FIRST CAME DOWN HERE AND STARTED WITH US ON LAST FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 24TH? A: NO, SIR. Q: AND FINALLY, WITH REGARD TO THE TAPE THAT YOU HEARD THIS MORNING WITH REGARD TO YOUR CONVERSATION WITH MR. PAVELIC -- DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: IF YOU KNOW, DOES BILL PAVELIC SPEAK SPANISH? MR. DARDEN: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. MR. COCHRAN: IF SHE KNOWS. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION. THE WITNESS: BILL PAVELIC? NO, SIR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO BEING INTERVIEWED AND TALKING, WOULD YOU PREFER TO SPEAK IN SPANISH OR ENGLISH? A: IN SPANISH, SIR. Q: AND WHY IS THAT? A: BECAUSE THAT IS MY TRUE LANGUAGE, SIR. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, ANY RECROSS? MR. DARDEN: JUST A LITTLE BIT. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN: Q: MISS LOPEZ, WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU REALIZED THAT 10:00 O'CLOCK OR SHORTLY AFTER 10:00 CLOCK TIME PERIOD WAS IMPORTANT? A: I'VE NEVER GIVEN IT ANY IMPORTANCE. Q: WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME -- WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT ANYONE ASKED YOU WHEN OR WHAT TIME IT WAS THAT YOU SAW THE BRONCO? A: I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. Q: WAS MR. PAVELIC THE FIRST PERSON TO ASK YOU WHEN AND WHAT TIME IT WAS THAT YOU SAW THE BRONCO? A: NO. HE DIDN'T ASK ME THE FIRST TIME. Q: WELL, WHO WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO ASK YOU? A: I ASKED -- I ASKED MICHELLE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER IF I TOLD HER THE TIME OR ANYTHING. Q: NOW, YOU TOLD US THAT YOU LISTENED TO SYLVIA GUERRA'S TAPE; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND YOU DENY ALL THE ALLEGATIONS SYLVIA MADE AGAINST YOU THAT'S CONTAINED ON THAT TAPE? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. LEADING, FORM OF THE QUESTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. DARDEN: I'LL HAVE TO PLAY THE TAPE, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THAT, YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH? THE QUESTION IS -- THE COURT: IS THERE ANY MORE SPECIFIC YOU CAN GET WITH REGARDS TO THE SPECIFIC ALLEGATIONS THAN TO JUST SAY, "DO YOU DENY ALL THE ALLEGATIONS"? MR. DARDEN: MAY I HAVE LEAVE OF THE COURT TO PLAY THE TAPE, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: WELL, CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE ALLEGATIONS ARE THAT YOU WANT TO CONFRONT HER WITH? MR. DARDEN: THE $5,000 ALLEGATION, THE ALLEGATION THAT -- THE COURT: WELL, WHY CAN'T WE TAKE THEM ONE AT A TIME. MR. DARDEN: IF THAT'S THE WAY YOU WANT IT. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, DID YOU TELL SYLVIA THAT YOU WERE GOING TO BE PAID $5,000? A: I HAVE NEVER BEEN OFFERED ANYTHING, SIR. I CAN'T TELL HER THAT. Q: DID YOU TELL SYLVIA THAT YOU WERE BEING OFFERED $5,000? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID YOU TELL SYLVIA THAT THE LAWYERS WOULD GIVE HER $5,000? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID YOU TELL SYLVIA THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED HER NAME TO THE ATTORNEYS? A: NO, SIR. Q: DID YOU TELL SYLVIA THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED HER NAME TO THE ATTORNEYS, THAT YOU WOULD GO BACK AND ASK THEM TO STRIKE ANY MENTION OF HER NAME FROM THEIR REPORTS? A: NO, SIR. Q: CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US THEN WHY SYLVIA IS MENTIONED IN THE WRITTEN REPORT DATED JUNE 29? MR. COCHRAN: MISSTATEMENT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: JULY. MR. DARDEN: I AM SORRY. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: -- DATED JULY 29, BUT IS NOT MENTIONED DURING THE TAPED CONVERSATION WE PLAYED HERE IN COURT TODAY? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. HEARSAY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. IF SHE KNOWS. THE WITNESS: BECAUSE SHE CAME TO MY HOUSE THAT EVENING, SIR. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHY HER NAME IS NOT MENTIONED ON THE TAPE BUT IS MENTIONED ON THE WRITTEN STATEMENT? A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR. Q: NOW, YOU MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU HAD MET THE KAPLAN CHILDREN; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: ARE YOU AWARE THAT SYLVIA SPENT THE ENTIRE EVENING OF JUNE 12 WITH ONE OF THE KAPLAN CHILDREN? THE INTERPRETER: I AM SORRY? Q: BY MR. DARDEN: -- WITH ONE OF THE KAPLAN CHILDREN? A: I DON'T KNOW, SIR. I DON'T LIVE WITH HER. Q: OKAY. WELL, HOW COULD SHE BE WITH YOU AT YOUR HOUSE -- MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. MR. DARDEN: THAT'S FINE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD US A MOMENT AGO THAT YOU WERE NOT EXPECTING ANY COMPENSATION AS A RESULT OF YOUR TESTIFYING IN THIS CASE, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: BUT YOU ARE EXPECTING TO BE PAID SOME MONEY WHEN YOU REACH SAN SALVADOR; IS THAT CORRECT? A: I HAVE NEVER BEEN PROMISED THAT, SIR. THIS IS NEWS TO ME TODAY. Q: HAS ANYONE ASKED YOU TO CONTACT A LAWYER IN SAN SALVADOR WHEN YOU ARRIVE THERE? A: NO, SIR. Q: HAS ANYONE TOLD YOU THAT THEY ARE GOING TO TRANSFER SOME MONEY TO YOU THROUGH A LAWYER IN SAN SALVADOR? A: I HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD THAT, SIR. Q: HAVE YOU BEEN TOLD THAT MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY WHO LIVE IN EL SALVADOR SHOULD EXPECT SOME MONEY? A: NO, SIR. NO, SIR. I HAVEN'T SPOKEN TO MY FAMILY IN EL SALVADOR, SIR. Q: DID YOU TELL SYLVIANNE WALKER THAT O.J. SIMPSON DIDN'T KILL NICOLE AND RON HIMSELF -- MR. COCHRAN: I MISSED THE LAST PART OF THE QUESTION. THE COURT: DID NOT KILL NICOLE AND RON HIMSELF. MR. DARDEN: -- BUT THAT HE HAD SOMEONE ELSE KILL THEM? THE INTERPRETER: I AM SORRY. CAN YOU PLEASE REPEAT YOUR QUESTION? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT -- OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: DID YOU TELL SYLVIANNE WALKER THAT O.J. SIMPSON DID NOT KILL RON AND NICOLE HIMSELF BUT THAT HE HAD SOMEONE ELSE DO IT FOR HIM? A: I DON'T REMEMBER HAVING TOLD THE LADY THAT. Q: DID SOMEONE ELSE BUY YOU A NEW DRESS AND NEW SHOES FOR TODAY'S HEARING? A: SIR, THIS WAS SENT TO ME FROM LAS VEGAS. I DON'T KNOW BY WHOM. I DON'T KNOW THE GENTLEMAN. Q: AND SO THAT THE RECORD IS CLEAR, YOU'RE NOT EXPECTING ANY MONEY FROM MR. SHAPIRO, CORRECT? A: FROM NONE OF THEM, SIR, AND I DON'T WANT IT. Q: NOT FROM MR. BAILEY OR MR. DOUGLAS OR MR. KARDASHIAN? A: NO, SIR. Q: OKAY. NOT FROM MISS CHAPMAN? A: NO, SIR. Q: ARE YOU EXPECTING MONEY FROM SKIP TAFT? A: WHAT'S THAT? I DON'T UNDERSTAND. Q: YOU DON'T KNOW A PERSON NAMED SKIP TAFT? A: NO. Q: HOW ABOUT THE PERSON YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER, BRIAN? ARE YOU EXPECTING MONEY FROM BRIAN? A: I DON'T KNOW WHO BRIAN MAY BE, SIR. Q: IS THE ANSWER NO? A: NO, SIR. Q: ARE YOU EXPECTING MONEY AT ALL FROM MR. MC NALLY OR MR. MC KENNA OR MR. PAVELIC? A: NO, SIR. I DON'T NEED IT. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MR. DARDEN: WELL, LAST WEEK YOU TOLD US YOU WERE SLEEPING ON THE STREET, CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS BEYOND THE SCOPE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: OF COURSE I DID. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: YOU TOLD US YOU WERE BROKE. A: NOT BROKE. I HAVE VERY LITTLE MONEY, SIR. MR. DARDEN: CAN I HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. DARDEN: CAN I TAKE A MOMENT TO TAKE A QUICK LOOK AT A VIDEOTAPE? THEN I'LL BE FINISHED. TAKE A COUPLE OF MINUTES. MR. COCHRAN: HAVE WE SEEN IT? MR. DARDEN: I HAVEN'T SEEN IT. THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU APPROACH WITHOUT THE REPORTER, PLEASE. (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, I NEED TO LOOK AT A VIDEOTAPE REAL QUICKLY HERE. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO STEP BACK IN THE JURY ROOM. AND, MISS HAMBURGER, WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY HER BACK IN THE JURY ROOM, PLEASE. THIS SHOULD ONLY TAKE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES. (THE WITNESS EXITS THE COURTROOM.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT THE WITNESS HAS WITHDRAWN FROM THE COURTROOM. (AT 3:25 P.M., A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) MR. DARDEN: LOOKING GOOD SO FAR. MR. SHAPIRO: THERE'S THE LIMO DRIVER. MR. DARDEN: WHAT WAS THAT? MS. CLARK: WHAT IS THIS? THE COURT: I THINK THAT WAS THE PICTURE OF MR. COCHRAN MAKING HIS SIGNAL. (AT 3:25 P.M., THE PLAYING OF THE VIDEOTAPE ENDED.) MS. CLARK: CAN WE SEE THAT ONE MORE TIME? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, FOR THE RECORD, I WAS TALKING TO THE COURT REPORTER. (AT 3:25 P.M., A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.) MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I MUST RESPOND TO THAT IF IT'S FINISHED. MAY I RESPOND, YOUR HONOR? THAT IS -- THE COURT: HOLD ON. (AT 3:28 P.M., THE VIDEOTAPE CONTINUES PLAYING.) (AT 3:28 P.M., THE PLAYING OF THE VIDEOTAPE ENDED.) MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS -- THAT IS ABSOLUTELY PREPOSTEROUS. LET ME JUST INDICATE TO THE COURT THAT WE HAVE A RATE FOR ALL OF OUR EXPERTS TO STAY AT THE BEL AGE AT $95 A NIGHT. THAT -- THAT -- THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN BE ALLOWED TO BE ON TELEVISION WITH THAT KIND OF STUFF. AND THE CAR THAT WAS A LIMOUSINE WAS BAILEY'S BLACK CHRYSLER. IT WAS NOT A LIMOUSINE AT ALL. THAT IS PREPOSTEROUS. MS. CLARK: WAIT A MINUTE. ALL OF YOUR EXPERT WITNESSES STAY AT BEL AGE? SWEAR ME IN. MR. COCHRAN: THE BEL AGE IS -- THEY HAVE A RATE, YOUR HONOR, AND SHE'S NOT STAYING AT THE BEL AGE THANK HEAVEN ANYMORE BECAUSE THE COURT ASKED US TO MOVE HER TO SOME OTHER PLACE LAST FRIDAY. SHE STAYED THERE ONE NIGHT, THURSDAY NIGHT, FOR ABOUT THREE HOURS. THAT IS PREPOSTEROUS. MR. DARDEN: WHERE I COME FROM, A CHRYSLER IS JUST LIKE A LIMOUSINE, MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, WE ARE NOT AWARE OF WHERE HE COMES FROM AND THAT'S NOT THE TEST HERE IN THIS COURTROOM. YOUR HONOR, IT'S NOT VERY FUNNY. IT'S REALLY SAD FROM THIS STANDPOINT. THIS LADY WAS TOLD SHE WOULD BE FINISHED LAST FRIDAY AND SHE'S STILL HERE SEVEN DAYS LATER. THE COURT: WELL, THE FACT THAT WE'RE STILL YACKING ABOUT A VIDEOTAPE THAT I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO SHOW TO ANYBODY AT THIS POINT -- MR. DARDEN: WELL, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO INDICATE THAT I HAVEN'T SEE THE VIDEOTAPE. I'VE BEEN SANDBAGGED BY MY OWN OFFICE THIS TIME. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CAN WE CONCLUDE? CAN WE CONCLUDE? MS. CLARK: I THINK SO. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE WITNESS BACK, PLEASE, MRS. ROBERTSON. MR. DARDEN: THERE IS ONE ADDITIONAL AREA, THE LETTER WE RECEIVED DATED MARCH 2, THE LETTER FROM A DR. VINCENT D. GILLEY AND THE CONTENT OF WHICH HAS NOW FOUND ITS WAY IN THE RECORD AND HAS BEEN REPEATED BY THE WITNESS ON THE WITNESS STAND. THE COURT: HOLD ON. (THE WITNESS IS AGAIN PRESENT.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MRS. LOPEZ IS AGAIN ON THE STAND. ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, YOU MAY CONCLUDE. MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, MAY I MARK THE LETTER I JUST DESCRIBED AS PEOPLE'S -- THE CLERK: 96. THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 96. (PEO'S 96 FOR ID = LETTER) MR. DARDEN: AND IF I MAY, MAY I ASK THE INTERPRETER TO READ TO THE WITNESS THE MIDDLE PARAGRAPH? THE COURT: IF YOU MUST. MR. DARDEN: I MUST. THE INTERPRETER: MAY I READ IT TO MYSELF FIRST? THE COURT: YOU MAY. DID WE JUST HAVE A PHOTO FLASH? UNIDENTIFIED PHOTOGRAPHER: MY MISTAKE. MR. COCHRAN: WHAT ARE WE DOING? THE COURT: THE INTERPRETER WOULD LIKE TO READ THE DOCUMENT BEFORE SHE HAS TO TRANSLATE IT, WHICH IS THE WAY ONE NORMALLY WORKS WITH AN INTERPRETER, AND TRANSLATE THE DOCUMENT. THE INTERPRETER: WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO READ IT TO HER? MR. DARDEN: READ THE MIDDLE PARAGRAPH TO HER, PLEASE. (THE INTERPRETER COMPLIES.) MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY I BE HEARD ON THIS? MAY I BE HEARD? THE COURT: MR. DARDEN IS IN THE PROCESS OF ASKING A QUESTION. MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD ABOUT SOMETHING THIS MORNING YOUR HONOR SAID ABOUT THIS VERY LETTER. I WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD. THE COURT: WELL, LET'S LET HIM ASK THE QUESTION. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, SHOWING YOU THE LETTER THAT'S JUST BEEN MARKED -- THE COURT: MICROPHONE. MICROPHONE. MR. DARDEN: IT'S ON MUTE. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: SHOWING YOU THE LETTER THAT'S JUST BEEN MARKED PEOPLE'S 96, DID YOU SEE THIS DOCUMENT EARLIER TODAY? A: I'M NOT SHOWN DOCUMENTS, SIR. Q: OKAY. WELL, THE INTERPRETER JUST READ FOR YOU THE MIDDLE PARAGRAPH OF THIS DOCUMENT, CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: OKAY. AND THAT PARAGRAPH DISCUSSES -- MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, NOW I WOULD LIKE TO BE HEARD. WE DISCUSSED THIS EARLIER. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET ME SEE COUNSEL AT THE SIDEBAR, PLEASE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:) THE COURT: WE ARE OVER AT SIDEBAR. MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS BEYOND THE SCOPE. I NEVER WENT INTO THIS AT ALL. BEYOND THE SCOPE OF CROSS. AND THE COURT TOLD ME THIS MORNING WHEN I READ THIS -- TRIED TO MAKE THIS POINT TO THE COURT TO TRY AND ESTABLISH IT, THE COURT SAID, "I'M NOT IMPRESSED WITH THIS." I CAN'T QUOTE YOU EXACTLY, BUT YOU DON'T TAKE GREAT STOCK IN THIS. DARDEN SAID AND I HOPE WAS IN THE RECORD, "I OBJECT TO ANYBODY WHO STARTS OFF SAYING I'M A SCHOLAR." SO THIS MATTER WAS TOTAL POOH-POOH, BEYOND THE SCOPE. THE COURT: IT'S NOT POOH-POOH. WE JUST DON'T KNOW THAT HE'S COMPETENT. WE DON'T KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS. MR. COCHRAN: IF HE WAS INCOMPETENT THIS MORNING, HE'S NOT COMPETENT THIS AFTERNOON IS MY POINT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S CHANGED. THE COURT: BUT THE PROBLEM -- HOLD ON. JUST A SECOND. THE PROBLEM WE HAVE, MR. COCHRAN, IS, YOU STARTED YOUR REDIRECT BY GOING INTO, "YOU WERE TIRED DURING MUCH OF YOUR TESTIMONY," AND THEN, "WHEN YOU SAY, 'I DON'T REMEMBER SAYING THAT,' DOESN'T MEAN SAYING I DON'T RECALL MEANS NO?" SO YOU WENT INTO SEMANTICS IS THE PROBLEM. MR. COCHRAN: JUDGE, I UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT IS A HORSE OF A DIFFERENT COLOR. THIS MAN, NONE OF US KNOW. THIS LETTER IS NOT THE WAY TO ADDRESS THAT. THE POINT IS -- TO CROSS-EXAMINE ON THAT IS ONE THING. THE POINT IS, WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS WITNESS. THIS IS A FAX LETTER. THIS IS THE RANKEST KIND OF IRRELEVANT, IMMATERIAL HEARSAY. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. THE COURT: I AGREE. MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE AN OFFER OF PROOF. MR. DARDEN: THE OFFER OF PROOF IS THIS. THIS LETTER APPEARED IN COURT THIS MORNING. YOU GAVE MYSELF A COPY. YOU GAVE MR. COCHRAN A COPY. THE NEXT THING WE KNOW, THE CONTENT OF THE LETTER IS REGURGITATED BY THE WITNESS ON THE STAND. MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL. THIS -- MR. DARDEN: I DON'T REMEMBER MEANS NO. MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT. THE COURT: WELL, OUT OF CURIOSITY, WHY WOULD YOU CONTEST THAT ANSWER? MR. DARDEN: WELL, BECAUSE SHE'S ONLY SAID "I DON'T REMEMBER" 128 TIMES, AND EACH TIME SHE -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOOD, I DON'T KNOW IF "NO" IS BAD. THE COURT: BUT YOU ASKED ME HOW I WAS GOING TO TAKE "I DON'T REMEMBER" UNDER 1235. THEN YOU GOT THE ANSWER THAT MAKES THAT PROBLEM GO AWAY. MR. SHAPIRO: JUDGE, I THINK IT'S UNFAIR THAT YOU HELP THE PROSECUTION LEARN THE RULES OF EVIDENCE. HE'S TRYING TO, BUT YOU'RE NOT PICKING UP ON IT. MS. CLARK: MR. SHAPIRO IS NOT GIVING US ANY CLUES THAT WE WEREN'T TELLING HIM ABOUT YESTERDAY. THAT WAS CLEAR. THE COURT: HOLD ON. OKAY. COME ON, GUYS. IT'S LATE. IT'S BEEN A LONG WEEK. MR. DARDEN: LET ME ASK HER A COUPLE QUESTIONS. I DO WANT TO ADD, IT MAY BE SOMETHING TO ARGUE WHEN THE TIME COMES. THE COURT: HERE'S THE PROBLEM. YOU MAY WANT IT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES. BUT IF YOU RECALL -- YOU KNOW, IF YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY FROM UCLA SCHOOL OF INTERPRETATION COMING HERE TO TELL YOU THAT, I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THIS GUY IS. MR. DARDEN: I DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA. BUT IT LOOKS LIKE -- MR. COCHRAN SPOKE TO THE WITNESS ON THE SAME SUBJECT MATTER AND WE APPROACHED THIS MORNING AND THE COURT HANDED THIS TO ME. THE COURT: BUT HERE'S THE THING THOUGH. MR. DARDEN, THIS IS THE WRONG PERSON TO READ A LETTER FROM A PHD. THIS GUY MAY BE WELL QUALIFIED. BUT TO ASK THIS WOMAN WHO DOESN'T SPEAK ENGLISH WELL, WHO DOESN'T READ OR WRITE SPANISH OR ENGLISH, TO ASK HER ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SEMANTICS -- MR. DARDEN: OKAY. THE COURT: -- OF INTERPRETING -- MR. DARDEN: WELL, THE WITNESS HAS ADOPTED THIS INTERPRETATION AFTER THREE DAYS' OF TESTIMONY. THE COURT: YOU CAN BRING IN AN EXPERT WITNESS ON LINGUISTICS. MR. DARDEN: BUT THE ISSUE IS WHETHER HE DISCUSSED THE GENERAL SUBJECT MATTER -- THE COURT: YOU CAN ASK, "DID ANYBODY READ THIS TO YOU," AND/OR, ASK YOU ABOUT THIS?" YOU CAN ASK THAT. MS. CLARK: DID ANYBODY DISCUSS THE SUBJECT OF THE PARAGRAPH OVER THE LUNCH HOUR. THE COURT: "WHAT WAS JUST READ TO YOU, DID ANYBODY DISCUSS THAT WITH YOU?" YOU CAN ASK THAT. MR. DARDEN: THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK. THE COURT: WELL, WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO? (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. DARDEN, WOULD YOU CONTINUE, PLEASE. THANK YOU. Q: BY MR. DARDEN: MISS LOPEZ, REGARDING THE PARAGRAPH JUST READ TO YOU BY THE INTERPRETER, DID MR. COCHRAN DISCUSS WITH YOU THE GENERAL SUBJECT MATTER CONTAINED IN PARAGRAPH 2 OF THIS LETTER? A: UMM, THEY TELL ME ALWAYS, BUT I DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THEM BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Q: IS THERE A PHRASE IN SPANISH THAT MEANS "I DO NOT REMEMBER"? A: THAT "NO". Q: CAN YOU SAY -- A: THAT'S THE PHRASE, "NO". Q: CAN YOU SAY "I DO NOT REMEMBER" IN SPANISH? MR. COCHRAN: WELL, YOUR HONOR -- THE WITNESS: I DON'T REMEMBER IN SPANISH. MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S IRRELEVANT, WHAT DIALECT -- THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: IT IS THE SAME IN SPANISH. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT, NO, SIR. NO, I DON'T REMEMBER AND I DON'T REMEMBER, IT'S THE SAME THING, SIR. MR. DARDEN: THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER. MAY SHE BE EXCUSED? THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE HAVE CONCLUDED YOUR TESTIMONY. THE WITNESS: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING BRIEFLY TO YOU. THE COURT: BRIEFLY. MR. DARDEN: BEFORE YOU DO THAT, YOUR HONOR -- BEFORE YOU DO THAT, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE -- I WOULD ASK THE COURT NOT TO EXCUSE THE WITNESS AND THAT THE COURT ORDER THE WITNESS TO RETURN. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. JONES? MR. JONES: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD OBJECT TO THE WITNESS MAKING A STATEMENT AT THIS TIME. THE COURT: WELL, SHE'S YOUR CLIENT, COUNSEL. DO YOU WANT TO CHAT WITH HER A MOMENT? MR. JONES: NO. I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE HER LEAVE THE STAND. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS LOPEZ, YOUR ATTORNEY HAS INDICATED HE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO SPEAK TO ME AT THIS POINT. THE WITNESS: I JUST -- I JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR THE ROOM YOU RENTED FOR ME, SIR. THE COURT: YOU ARE WELCOME. BUT IT'S ACTUALLY BEING PAID BY MR. COCHRAN. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. MR. JONES: NOT MR. JONES OR HIS WIFE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: NO. MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, BEFORE MISS LOPEZ LEAVES THE COURTROOM -- THE COURT: YES. HOLD ON. THE INTERPRETER: JUST A MOMENT, PLEASE. MR. DARDEN: -- I WOULD ASK THAT THE COURT ORDER MISS LOPEZ TO RETURN. THE COURT: WELL, THE PURPOSE OF CONDUCTING A CONDITIONAL EXAMINATION IS UPON THE REPRESENTATION THAT SHE IS LEAVING THE JURISDICTION. WE HAVE NOW PRESERVED HER TESTIMONY. CAN YOU THINK OF ANY OTHER GOOD CAUSE WHY I SHOULD DO THAT? MR. DARDEN: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE TESTIMONY CAN'T BE PRESENTED IN FRONT OF THE JURY UNLESS MISS LOPEZ IS ACTUALLY UNAVAILABLE TO TESTIFY. THE COURT: THAT'S CORRECT. MR. DARDEN: OKAY. THE COURT: THERE HAS TO BE A FINDING UNDER SECTION 240. MR. DARDEN: I THINK I'M DOING THE DEFENSE A FAVOR IN ASKING TO HAVE HER ORDERED BACK. MR. COCHRAN: WE WOULD RATHER NOT HAVE THAT FAVOR, YOUR HONOR. MR. DARDEN: I'M SURE YOU WOULDN'T. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO DECLINE -- I'M GOING TO DECLINE MAKING THE ORDER AT THIS TIME. MS. CLARK: AS LONG AS IT'S CLEAR IT'S THE DEFENSE REQUEST. THE COURT: THE RECORD IS CLEAR. GOOD LUCK, MISS LOPEZ. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, SIR. YOU'RE VERY KIND. I APPRECIATE THIS. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS HAMBURGER, MR. JONES, THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MS. HAMBURGER: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, JUST SCHEDULING WISE, I ANTICIPATE THAT WE WILL RECONVENE MONDAY MORNING 9:00 O'CLOCK. WE WILL TAKE UP WITH THE CONCLUSION OF THE CROSS-EXAMINATION OF DETECTIVE LANGE AND OTHER WITNESSES. AND MISS CLARK, MR. DARDEN, MISS LEWIS, I WOULD ASK THAT YOU CONSULT WITH DEFENSE COUNSEL, LET THEM KNOW WHAT YOUR LINEUP IS GOING TO BE NEXT WEEK SO WE CAN ALL GET OUR NOTEBOOKS TOGETHER AS TO WHO'S WHO, EXCHANGE ANY LAST MINUTE DISCOVERY. ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT? ALL RIGHT. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS UNTIL MONDAY MORNING, 9:00 O'CLOCK. MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, DOES THE COURT HAVE AN ANTICIPATION WHEN IT MIGHT HAVE THE RULING ON THE SANCTIONS? THE COURT: WELL, ONE OF THESE DAYS WHEN I HAVE SOME TIME TO GO BACK TO MY WORD PROCESSOR. MS. LEWIS: HOPEFULLY MAYBE MONDAY MAYBE SINCE -- THE COURT: I'M HOPING. THE LONGER I STAND OUT HERE AND TALK TO YOU -- (AT 3:45 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN UNTIL, MONDAY, MARCH 6, 1995, 9:00 A.M.) SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, ) REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
FRIDAY, MARCH 3, 1995 PAGES 17004 THROUGH 17181, INCLUSIVE APPEARANCES: (SEE PAGE 2)
JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR #4588 APPEARANCES:
FOR THE PEOPLE: GIL GARCETTI, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT L. SHAPIRO, ESQUIRE
JOHNNIE L. COCHRAN, JR., ESQUIRE
GERALD F. UELMEN, ESQUIRE
ALSO PRESENT: CARL JONES, ESQUIRE I N D E X INDEX FOR VOLUME 99 PAGES 17004 - 17181 ----------------------------------------------------- DAY DATE SESSION PAGE VOL.
FRIDAY MARCH 3, 1995 A.M. 17004 99 LEGEND:
MS. CLARK - MC ----------------------------------------------------- CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
DEFENSE (1335)
LOPEZ, ROSA MARIA ----------------------------------------------------- ALPHABETICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
DEFENSE (1335)
LOPEZ, ROSA MARIA EXHIBITS
PEOPLE'S FOR IN EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE
92 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 17020 99
92-A - PHOTOGRAPH OF 17054 99
93 - PHOTOGRAPH OF A 17024 99
94 - CASSETTE TAPE OF 17064 99
95 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 17085 99
96 - 1-PAGE DOCUMENT 17170 99 ----------------------------------------------------- EXHIBITS
COURT'S FOR IN EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE
5 - (NOT MARKED OR ADMITTED ON THE RECORD) 99
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