THE COURT: Let's have Juror no. 4, which is Juror no. 19.
(Juror no. 19 enters chambers.)
THE CLERK: Juror no. 19.
THE COURT: Juror no. 19, come on in.
JUROR NO. 19: Caught me catching some Z's.
THE COURT: You mean you don't get enough rest over at the hotel? How are things going over there?
JUROR NO. 19: All right. They're okay. I got no complaints.
THE COURT: Well, the reason I called you in, I mentioned yesterday there's some issues that have been brought to my attention, and the appellate law here in California requires that any time something is brought to my attention that impacts the conduct of the jury, I need to look into it. So that's the reason I have to ask you these questions. And you should not assume from the questions that I'm asking you that I think any of this is true. But I have to make the inquiry. And if there's a problem, then I need to do something about it. So that's why we're here. You should also understand that none of the things that I'm looking into in any way indicate that you've engaged in any conduct. So you should understand that.
JUROR NO. 19: Okay.
THE COURT: Can you tell me if anything has come to your attention that would indicate a conflict between individual jurors in this case?
JUROR NO. 19: Conflict? I know some people don't talk to each other, but--
THE COURT: Are you aware--
JUROR NO. 19: I think that's just a personality clash. That's all.
THE COURT: Are you aware of any physical conflict?
JUROR NO. 19: Physical?
THE COURT: Kicking, hitting, anything like that between jurors?
JUROR NO. 19: No. Uh-huh.
THE COURT: Any incidents in the video room that you might be aware of?
JUROR NO. 19: Some people try to take it over but--
THE COURT: I mean physical, actual, you know, kicking chairs, that sort of thing.
JUROR NO. 19: No, I haven't seen nothing like that.
THE COURT: Have you seen anything--stepping on people in the jury box, anything like that?
JUROR NO. 19: I saw somebody trip over somebody, but I think that was just--
THE COURT: When was that?
JUROR NO. 19: Maybe couple weeks back maybe.
THE COURT: Do you know who was involved?
JUROR NO. 19: I don't know numbers. I know names.
THE COURT: All right. Tell me names.
JUROR NO. 19: I think Juror no. 353 tripped over--Juror no. 353 tripped over the guy Juror no. 1489 that sits behind me or something. Something like that happened or something.
THE COURT: Did you see that?
JUROR NO. 19: No. But he said something like, "Next time--" I don't know if he was joking. He was probably joking when he said it. He said, "Next time, I am going to trip you," but I think he was joking. Other than that, I think that's about it.
THE COURT: Tell me about these personality conflicts.
JUROR NO. 19: Like one of the girls, she doesn't really talk to anybody really a whole lot.
THE COURT: Who is that?
JUROR NO. 19: Juror no. ****.
THE COURT: What seat does she sit in?
JUROR NO. 19: She's in no. ** seat. She's real quiet though. I just think she's quiet. I mean, whenever I tell her hi, she's always like hi, how you doing, stuff like that, but I really don't see her hanging out or talking to anybody too much.
THE COURT: Has anything come to your attention that you would characterize as unprofessional conduct by any of the bailiffs?
JUROR NO. 19: You mean the sheriffs? No. Uh-huh. I get along with all of them, pretty good guys.
THE COURT: Are you aware of any--in the phone room, has there ever been an occasion where they haven't monitored or dialed the phone numbers you've been calling?
JUROR NO. 19: No. They've always dialed all my numbers.
THE COURT: Has there ever been occasions they were playing cards and said, "Go ahead, dial your own number?"
JUROR NO. 19: Uh-huh. Not with me.
THE COURT: Has there ever been an occasion during the family visitation when you felt that they haven't been monitoring what's been going on?
JUROR NO. 19: No. They pretty much sit around.
THE COURT: Do they sit or do they move around?
JUROR NO. 19: Sit and move around.
THE COURT: Is there anything that the bailiffs, the sheriffs have done that in your mind has promoted any of the racial tension amongst the jurors?
JUROR NO. 19: Naw.
THE COURT: Have you ever had the feeling that your room has been searched?
JUROR NO. 19: Naw. Uh-huh. I mean, things are out of place, but I always just figure when they're cleaning my room. Nothing big.
THE COURT: Anything ever been missing from your room?
JUROR NO. 19: Naw, nothing's ever been missing.
THE COURT: Has anything gone on during your service as a juror that has caused you to believe one group of jurors is being treated better or differently than another group of jurors?
JUROR NO. 19: No.
THE COURT: Has there been any problem regarding the time available to shop?
JUROR NO. 19: Time available to shop?
THE COURT: To go shopping?
JUROR NO. 19: Wait a minute. Say that one again?
THE COURT: Has there been any problem regarding the time available to shop between the different groups of jurors?
JUROR NO. 19: No. Uh-huh.
THE COURT: Has there been any problem with the availability of time in the gym or the facilities to work out in the gym?
JUROR NO. 19: No. That's pretty much open all the time.
THE COURT: Any problem regarding the availability of phone use? Anybody get special treatment regarding the phones?
JUROR NO. 19: Not that I know.
THE COURT: Any special treatment or different treatment regarding the availability and scheduling of videotapes?
JUROR NO. 19: Not really. I'm not even in those rooms a whole lot.
THE COURT: Has anything come to your attention that would cause you to believe that any of the jurors have discussed the facts and circumstances of the case?
JUROR NO. 19: Naw. I think the closest they come saying anything would be like wanting to go home.
THE COURT: Okay. Anything happen that you are aware of that might indicate to you any of the jurors have formed any opinions about the case?
JUROR NO. 19: No. Nobody's--not that I know of.
THE COURT: All right. Has anything come to your attention that would indicate any of the jurors have received information regarding the case from outside--either through family visits, taking phone calls or anything else? Anything that you're aware of?
JUROR NO. 19: Nothing that I know.
THE COURT: Juror no. 4, is there anything you think you need to tell me about or you want to tell me about?
JUROR NO. 19: Naw. I just--one question I was kind of like wondering.
THE COURT: Sure.
JUROR NO. 19: When do you think we will be able to go home?
THE COURT: Well, that was one of the questions I was going to ask. How strong do you feel today?
JUROR NO. 19: I mean I--I mean, I feel all right. I mean, I can--it was just more like a question of, you know, maybe what month.
THE COURT: Well, we may be looking at July or August. Can you live that long?
JUROR NO. 19: I can hang till then. I miss my boy, but he's doing all right. He's doing okay.
THE COURT: Is there anything you feel that I can do to make things better for you, any different types of activities, any different types of outings, different gym equipment?
JUROR NO. 19: No. We got my machine in. I think everybody is pretty happy with that as far as gym equipment. Would be kind of nice to get out to a park once this weather clears up. I know there is a big thing with logistics and all that stuff. I don't know how that works out. That would be kind of nice.
THE COURT: Okay. I'll look into that. Can you tell me--tell me about this video room conflict? You say you stay out of there pretty much?
JUROR NO. 19: Because I'm always in the gym. That's my stress relief in there. But I think I'm in there mostly on just like Saturdays or Sundays. There's been times where, you know, they'll--somebody will line up and they'll make sure something gets on that they want to see before somebody else gets in there. So it is kind of like the deputies took over that problem. They just made a list of what's going to be shown and that's basically--
THE COURT: That's the schedule?
JUROR NO. 19: That's it.
THE COURT: Okay.
JUROR NO. 19: But they're kind of complaining about that because, "Oh, I don't want to see that." But they kind of brought it upon themselves.
THE COURT: Are you aware of any racial differences amongst the jurors?
JUROR NO. 19: No. Racially, naw. I think it's more just personality. Some people just don't get along.
THE COURT: Are there any two particular--any two particular jurors who don't get along in a way?
JUROR NO. 19: I kind of feel like a snitch.
THE COURT: No. That's why I'm asking you these questions. I wouldn't be asking you these questions if it wasn't important.
JUROR NO. 19: Like I say, I don't know numbers, just names, but I think it's just the way he was kind of brought up. Juror no. 1489, the older guy, the one that sits behind me, he's pretty headstrong. So it's like he likes always everything--he always likes everything his way and, you know, I think he's just used to, being at home, having everything done his way, the way he wants it to be, stuff like that. He tries to push it on other people. If they want to see something else, he'll just push it on them, that's what's going to be seen. That's him. I think he's just used to getting his way. But he knows his sports.
THE COURT: Anything else you think we ought to know about?
JUROR NO. 19: Naw. There's not really a whole lot going on.
THE COURT: We have sidebars even in chambers.
(Discussion held off the record between the Court, Miss Clark and Mr. Cochran.)
THE COURT: All right. Juror no. 4, I'm going to order you not to discuss this with any of the other jurors. What I'm doing is bringing you in one at a time, and it's taking about a half hour a juror to talk to you all. And obviously, I've still got another 14 jurors to go. But I'm going to talk to some of the other personnel involved, some of the bailiffs, I'm probably going to talk to some of the people over at the hotel. So I don't want you to discuss this with anybody. If anybody asks you what the Judge is asking about, just say, "He's ordered me not to discuss it," that's the end of it, okay?
JUROR NO. 19: No problem.
THE COURT: Thank you, Juror no. 19.
JUROR NO. 19: One question. Like on Sunday, the paper comes and you get the movie section, you know, the first-run--I mean the movies like playing at the theaters like the new ones. Any way we would be able to grab some of those?
MISS SCOLINOS: I'll look into them.
JUROR NO. 19: I could cut the section out.
MISS SCOLINOS: Just let me know which ones you're interested in. I can follow that up.
JUROR NO. 19: Cool. Thanks.
THE COURT: Thank you.
(Juror no. 19 exits chambers.)
THE COURT: Counsel, we will stand in recess as far as this project is concerned until 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
(At 5:05 P.M., an adjournment was taken until, Wednesday, April 19, 1995, 9:00 A.M.)
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, APRIL 18, 1995 3:05 P.M.
Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge
APPEARANCES: (Appearances as heretofore noted.)
(Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)
(Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)
(The following proceedings were held in camera:)
THE COURT: All right. Are we ready to start? Okay. As soon as I get a bailiff.
(Brief pause.)
THE BAILIFF: Do you want them in order?
THE COURT: Give me no. 1.
(Brief pause.)
THE COURT: All right. We are on the record with counsel in chambers.
THE BAILIFF: Juror no. 230.
(Juror no. 230 enters chambers)
THE COURT: No. 230, why don't you have a seat there, please. Good afternoon.
JUROR NO. 230: Good afternoon.
THE COURT: I don't mean to pick you on first, but you are seat no. 1. As I explained to the jury when we were in session yesterday, some issues and problems have been brought to my attention concerning the jury and it is such that I am required by law to make an inquiry. And I have decided that I should talk to each individual juror one at a time, so I'm starting with you since you are Juror no. 1.
JUROR NO. 230: Okay.
THE COURT: You should understand that because I am asking these questions, one, does not mean that I necessarily believe that any of this is true, but I have enough information that I need to at least ask these questions. Juror no. 1, are you aware of any conflict between your fellow jurors such that there have been any physical contacts between jurors?
JUROR NO. 230: Any physical contacts?
THE COURT: Yes.
JUROR NO. 230: No, I'm not.
THE COURT: All right. Are you aware of any kicking or hitting incident that might have taken place in the room where the videotapes are shown over at the hotel?
JUROR NO. 230: No, I'm not.
THE COURT: Are you aware of any hitting or kicking that has gone on in the jury box?
JUROR NO. 230: In the jury box?
THE COURT: In the jury box.
JUROR NO. 230: No.
THE COURT: I will note that you laughed at that one.
JUROR NO. 230: No, I--
THE COURT: All right. Are you aware of any non-physical conflicts between jurors that are--you know, that are of a serious nature?
JUROR NO. 230: Other than I guess verbal conflicts that they may be having, and I say "they," because when you say in the video room, we have a couple video rooms, but I guess there have been some conflicts that I've heard about in one of the video rooms, but I have not personally--you know, I wasn't personally there to hear it or witness anything.
THE COURT: Can you tell me what you heard about that?
JUROR NO. 230: Basically I guess people being dominating over what is going to be watched or what is not going to be watched, that type of thing, and the reason why I say that is because I have no involvement in that because I'm up at 4:30 and into bed at 8:00, so anything after that, I really, you know, can't witness to.
THE COURT: Okay. Juror no. 1, have you observed anything, any conduct by the bailiffs that you would term as unprofessional conduct?
JUROR NO. 230: No, I haven't. They have treated me with the utmost respect and been very professional, and you know, when you give respect, you get respect in return, so I have not had any.
THE COURT: Lawyers, I want you to listen to that.
JUROR NO. 230: No, I have not.
THE COURT: All right. Have you--I take it you have had the occasion to use the phone room?
JUROR NO. 230: Yes.
THE COURT: Have you noticed anything about how that phone room operation is being conducted? Has there ever been a situation where you have been allowed to use the telephone without anybody monitoring those calls?
JUROR NO. 230: Never. I use the phone room everyday and there is always--I would say 75 percent of the time there is one deputy there and 25 percent of the time, you know, there is at least two deputies, depending on how many are on staff for the evening, you know, or during the day.
THE COURT: Okay. Have you ever seen them playing cards or doing other things other than what they are supposed to be doing?
JUROR NO. 230: Yeah, sometimes they do play cards, but they are still very attentive. You know, you can tell that they are attentive to what is going on in the phone room. I mean, it is not a huge room. I can hear what is going on from telephone to telephone even in another room, so I'm sure that they are being very attentive.
THE COURT: Have you had any experience where, say, for example, the deputies are playing cards and you want to make another phone call and they say, oh, just go ahead and make the call, they don't bother to get up?
JUROR NO. 230: Never.
THE COURT: They always get up and make the phone call and get through the log?
JUROR NO. 230: Yes, during the time that I have been in there definitely.
THE COURT: All right. During the visitations, the family visits and the friend visits and that sort of thing, have you ever had the feeling that you weren't being sufficiently monitored or that other people were not being sufficiently monitored by the sheriff's bailiffs?
JUROR NO. 230: No, I have not.
THE COURT: All right. Do you feel in any way that their presence is too intrusive?
JUROR NO. 230: No.
THE COURT: Have you ever had the feeling or--well, that your room has been searched by the bailiffs?
JUROR NO. 230: No.
THE COURT: Have you seen anything, any conduct by any of the bailiffs that would give you the impression that the bailiffs were in any way promoting racial conflicts between jurors?
JUROR NO. 230: No, they haven't. Like I said before, I guess I had an individual meeting with the sergeant last week, the sheriffs have been more than professional. When we first started out, it was more or less things were sort of tight and they were, you know, going by the book and the rules and regulations, but as--as we got more involved into it, things begin to loosen up according to what you would allow to us do, and we are with these people 12 hours a day, and they become a little bit more personable and make--you know, trying to make our lives a lot more easier. But as far as any discrimination or prejudice, I have not experienced that at all, and trust me, I am the type if I would have felt that way, I would have handled it immediately or I would have confronted somebody.
THE COURT: All right. Juror no. 1, I want you to understand also that you have immediate access to me.
JUROR NO. 230: Right. I am aware of that.
THE COURT: Okay.
JUROR NO. 230: But I feel if it would have gotten to the point that I would have had to come to you, then yes, you can assure we would have had a problem, but no, I have not experienced any type of problem like that whatsoever.
THE COURT: All right. You indicated that you had a meeting last week with the sergeant?
JUROR NO. 230: Yes.
THE COURT: Sergeant "J"?
JUROR NO. 230: Yes, Sergeant "J".
THE COURT: Can you tell me what that was about?
JUROR NO. 230: Well, he called everybody in and basically wanted to find out if we were having any problems with his staff being professional, or you know, non-professional, or if we have been experiencing any discomfort with, you know, the staff or anything, and I explained to him that his staff has been more than professional as far as I'm concerned. They bend over backwards to assist us, you know. If we can't get what we want right then and there, eventually they come up with some type of conclusions for us.
THE COURT: All right. Have you felt in any way that you have been treated differently from other jurors?
JUROR NO. 230: No.
THE COURT: Has there been any problem regarding shopping hours?
JUROR NO. 230: Shopping hours? Not being able to shop as long as I want to shop, but other than that and where I want on shop, no, there hasn't been.
THE COURT: Okay. Has there been any problems with some groups of jurors being able to shop longer than others? Any problems that you are aware of?
JUROR NO. 230: No, we all shop for the same length of time.
THE COURT: Are you aware of any problems regarding the use of the gym facilities, the workout facilities?
JUROR NO. 230: No, because I'm in there at 5:00 to 6:00 in the morning, so there is only about three of us there.
THE COURT: Which equipment are you using there?
JUROR NO. 230: We use the Lifestyle equipment, the bikes, the treadmill. Whatever, you know, is available in there, we have access to it.
THE COURT: Okay. That is the gym that is on your floor right?
JUROR NO. 230: Yeah, the gym that is on the floor.
THE COURT: Okay. How do you like the equipment?
JUROR NO. 230: Love it. It is real nice equipment, very nice.
THE COURT: My law clerks went to a lot of trouble to get that for you.
JUROR NO. 230: Very nice. Thank you.
THE COURT: That is all donated equipment.
JUROR NO. 230: Great.
THE COURT: We didn't have to pay a dime for it.
JUROR NO. 230: It is really good equipment.
THE COURT: We are going to be donating that to a charitable organization as soon as we are done with it, but you make good use of it. Has there been any disparate treatment in phone time, any special treatment that some people have gotten over others regarding phone use?
JUROR NO. 230: Not that I am aware of. We have a 15-minute limit on the telephones, however, unless the phone list is excessively long, they will generally, you know, let you go and everybody may go about twenty minutes. Sometimes I have about--some evenings I have looked up and I have been on there an hour and it is not any special privilege, it is just because there is nobody else there or nobody on the list, so it depends on how long the list is. If it is a long list, they will keep it to the fifteen minutes, but other than that, you know, they just sort of let you use your judgment.
THE COURT: All right. Has there been any problem regarding the scheduling and availability of videotapes?
JUROR NO. 230: No, no problem for me. I have seen more videos since I have been here than I have in a lifetime, so no.
THE COURT: Okay. Anything I can do as far as that is concerned to make that a better situation?
JUROR NO. 230: The videos?
THE COURT: Yeah.
JUROR NO. 230: No, I don't think so.
THE COURT: Variety is good enough?
JUROR NO. 230: Yes, they have been pretty good.
THE COURT: Okay. This is a little touchier subject. I've heard allegations, and I want to emphasize to you again because I've heard it doesn't necessarily mean that it is true, but I've heard that some of the jurors have discussed the case against my order not to discuss the case amongst themselves. Are you aware of anything like that?
JUROR NO. 230: I am not aware of anybody discussing the case, your Honor, so I really couldn't respond to that.
THE COURT: All right. Do you have any information or any impression that any of your fellow jurors have formed opinions about the case?
JUROR NO. 230: No, I have not, no.
THE COURT: Has anything come to your attention that would indicate that information regarding the case has come in from outside sources, other than what you hear in the courtroom?
JUROR NO. 230: No, not to my knowledge.
THE COURT: All right. As to these issues, Miss Clark, Mr. Cochran, any other inquiry?
MS. CLARK: No.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
THE COURT: All right. Juror no. 1, can you tell me how is everything going over there?
JUROR NO. 230: Everything is going fairly well. It is a lot better than I originally expected, I can say that, all except for the cleaning.
THE COURT: Tell me about that.
JUROR NO. 230: The cleaners is the pits.
THE COURT: The cleaning as far as your clothes are concerned?
JUROR NO. 230: Yes, our clothes are concerned.
THE COURT: The dry cleaning?
JUROR NO. 230: Yes.
THE COURT: The laundry and dry cleaning?
JUROR NO. 230: This guy I don't know where he comes from. He come from India, I do know where he comes from, but everybody's clothes are all messed up. The first week or so--
THE COURT: I heard there was an incredible problem the first week.
JUROR NO. 230: My small vest was extra extra large and my white blouses were green and blue and it was a mess, and everybody complains every week about the cleaning. That is our major problem.
THE COURT: Okay. I will look into that.
JUROR NO. 230: But other than that, I don't have any complaints.
THE COURT: Is there anything else? We've tried to get you a lot of entertainment.
JUROR NO. 230: The entertainment, the food is changing, we are getting out, because the food had become a problem.
THE COURT: Too much of the same thing?
JUROR NO. 230: Same thing, repetitious, too many particles walking, crawling, talking in the food, but other than that, you know, we have been getting out a lot more and doing a lot of different things, so like I say, it is a lot better.
THE COURT: All right. I want you to know that we try very hard to provide you with different things to do and it is kind of hard doing that, it is like being a cruise director on a ship and at the same time trying to run the trial at the same time.
JUROR NO. 230: Right.
THE COURT: So it is a hard job, but if you have any suggestions about that, please let me know. If you have any comments or complaints, I want you to feel free to pass the bailiffs a note saying that you need to talk to me, and I will be happy to talk to you. Is there anything else you think we need to know about?
JUROR NO. 230: Nothing that I can think of, other than, like I said, you know, as far as hearing people discuss the case or any type of prejudice or anything, you know, I personally don't feel that it is from your staff. I think if there is any, it was brought in by the people that probably are complaining, but other than that, I don't, so--
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Cochran, Miss Clark, anything else?
MR. COCHRAN: Can we have just a second, your Honor?
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. COCHRAN: Can we approach the desk?
THE COURT: We even have side bars here.
(Discussion held off the record between the Court, Ms. Clark and Mr. Cochran.)
THE COURT: Juror no. 1?--
JUROR NO. 230: Uh-huh.
THE COURT: --my impression is this case is going a little slower than we thought it was going to go. I'm trying to speed them up, but how are you doing endurance wise?
JUROR NO. 230: How am I doing what?
THE COURT: Endurance wise?
JUROR NO. 230: I'm doing fine. Some days I get a little lethargic, but usually I'm on the Life Savers. Where is Tas? I am on the Life Savers just to give me that quick sugar kick, but other than that, I'm doing fine once we get into it.
THE COURT: All right. Because we may be looking at July or August to finish the case.
JUROR NO. 230: Well, like I said, when I first got here, I thought I may have a problem, you know, but I sort of refocused my thinking and started, umm, focusing on, you know, other things and other people and what I really tried to do was work with the younger people, because I thought that they would be worse off I was, but it turned out that, you know, they are making it pretty well, and the married--the people that were married--and after we got the conjugal visits, that sort of helped them and they are doing a lot better.
THE COURT: What is the mood of the jurors as far as the length of the trial is going? What is your impression?
JUROR NO. 230: I think they realize that it is going to be long and drawn out and they hate it, but they are into it now, you know, and I think--
THE COURT: We sucked them in, hum?
JUROR NO. 230: Yeah, you got them, you got us, but other than that, and like I say, with things lightening up on us and we are getting out a lot more and doing a lot more things, I think it is a lot better. The only thing I guess people--I started to say they mess--I think the saddest point we have is even on visiting day is once you leave your family and you can't go out with them, you know, you sort of get a little depression, but after that--and I think that is why Mondays are generally our worse days when we are here, but after that we are okay.
THE COURT: All right. I've got to tell you that I'm criticized by many people for giving you so much visitation and so many phone calls, but I'm trusting you all not to do anything that is inappropriate during those visits or phone calls.
JUROR NO. 230: I honestly believe that everybody is truly, truly trying, your Honor. I think that they are giving it 200 percent. I think that they realize the seriousness of everything. At least I do. I shouldn't say "they." I'm sorry, I do, and we are giving it our all and all, and you know, when you hear somebody said June or July or one of the deputies asked us who is going to buy the Christmas decorations, you sort of, you know, get a little upset for a minute, but they know it is all in joking, but they realize that it is going to be probably long and drawn out.
THE COURT: Yes. We will not budget Christmas decorations.
JUROR NO. 230: Yes, Christmas decorations, who is going to do the tree, but other than that, that is what we have to deal with.
THE COURT: Any other questions, comments?
MR. COCHRAN: No.
THE COURT: All right. Juror no. 1, I'm going to order you not to discuss with any other jurors what we have just discussed here, because it is going to take me probably the rest of today, all of tomorrow, to get through everybody, but I want you to know I am concerned about every concern that you have.
JUROR NO. 230: Okay.
THE COURT: Thank you very much for coming in.
JUROR NO. 230: Thank you.
MS. CLARK: Judge, can I make a quick phone call?
(Brief pause.)
(Juror no. 230 exits chambers.)
(Brief pause.)
THE COURT: Juror no. 2.
THE BAILIFF: 453.
(Juror no. 453 enters chambers.)
(Proceedings held in camera, not included in released order of transcript.)
(Juror no. 453 exits chambers.)
THE COURT: Off the record.
(Discussion held off the record.)
(Juror no. 1290 enters chambers.)
THE COURT: Juror no. 1290, come in.
JUROR NO. 1290: Hello.
THE COURT: Sit down. How are you today?
JUROR NO. 1290: I'm fine, thank you.
THE COURT: Good, good. Juror no. 3, the reason that I called you in is I mentioned yesterday, there are some issues that I need to look into that have been brought to my attention. And you should understand that because these things have been brought to my attention doesn't necessarily mean that I believe them to be true, but I have a legal obligation to inquire into every problem that is brought to my attention and some of these are important--where, they are all important problems brought to my attention. And if they are true, then I need to do something about them. I want you to know that there is no indication that you have done anything wrong, but I need to go through each one of the juniors and talk to them individually. That is what I tried to get started yesterday afternoon and we just sort of got into some other things. Juror no. 3, are you aware of any conflict between jurors of a serious nature? I mean, not over what channel we are going to watch or what videotape, but you know, something that is serious?
JUROR NO. 1290: Oh, I feel some underlying things going on. I haven't seen any real blatant action, I don't think, between jurors.
THE COURT: When you say "underlying" what do you mean by that?
JUROR NO. 1290: Oh, tension and soft spoken comments.
THE COURT: What is the nature of the tension or the cause of the tension?
JUROR NO. 1290: Well, I could think of one incident.
THE COURT: Tell me about that.
JUROR NO. 1290: That--in one of the TV rooms, this has been a while back, I don't remember exactly when it happened, but we have two rows of chairs in front of the TV. I was in the back row next to 353, and I think next to her was 1427. In front of 353 was 1489. There was kind of a space and then another chair was Deputy "F" and there was another deputy on the other side of me, I don't know what his name is, and I don't know if there were any other jurors to the left of 1489 or not, but he was the last one to the right there. And 353 had crossed her legs like this, (indicating), kicked the back of 1489's seat, and I think she may have shook her foot a time or two or something, apparently hit the back of his chair, and he turned around and looked at 1427 and said, "Is there a problem back there?" and turned around. We in the back row kind of looked at each other wondering what was going on. I guess she didn't realize she had kicked his chair. He turned around to her and said, "I guess you think that is funny?" and I don't know that she said anything at that time. I looked at Deputy "F", who--I saw him looking at the deputy on the other side of me.
THE COURT: Uh-huh.
JUROR NO. 1290: And 1489 made a couple of other comments that "You can't push me around or intimidate me and I don't think it is funny," something like that, and I don't think any of the other of us said anything at that point. It seemed like a good idea just to leave it, leave it alone, and a couple of little things like that have happened.
THE COURT: All right. Any incident that sticks out in your memory?
JUROR NO. 1290: Umm--
THE COURT: But there were sheriff's deputies in the room?
JUROR NO. 1290: In the room and they looked at each other and they didn't make any comment. I guess they were just waiting to see whether or not anything further happened. And to my knowledge it was never mentioned to a deputy specifically. I don't know whether it was or not, but you know, the other jurors, and I didn't mention it myself. But a couple of that type of thing where maybe somebody will just walk out of the room if they see a certain person there, that type of thing, rather than any actual, you know, confrontation or conflict.
THE COURT: Or it could also be they don't like the program that is on the TV?
JUROR NO. 1290: Yeah. I think I mentioned one other time in here about another incident with 1489 as far as the TV room goes.
THE COURT: Tell me about that.
JUROR NO. 1290: But that--again it was 353 who walked into the original TV room. She wanted to see a particular movie, which I can't remember what it was right now, and they were watching another one in the front TV room that we didn't want to see, so she walked in and said we wanted to see whatever movie in here, he said, "No, you can't." She said, "What are you watching?" He said "I don't know." And at that point I did go get a deputy who--it was Deputy "I". She walked back there with me and by that time someone else was in the room with him and he said he had six people that had voted to see ER so at that point we just left, but there were only two people in the room. He and 453, I think, were the two in the room. So that type of thing, so I mean, I have gotten to where I just don't go into a room where he is, because, you know, he is pretty well got like--we were voting for a while on what to watch and he would say, well, he had six votes, you know, to see a particular thing, when in fact he might be the only person in there, and rather than have any kind of a conflict, I for one would just leave, you know, go to the other room or do something else, that type of thing. But it is just that kind of thing. I didn't see where there has been any, I don't know, outlandish comments or insults or anything you could really put your finger on.
THE COURT: Okay. Have you seen any similar type kicking or that kind of conduct in the jury box?
JUROR NO. 1290: I heard about it.
THE COURT: Tell me what you heard.
JUROR NO. 1290: 353 mentioned to me that she had come into the jury box after 1489 had sat down, she tripped over his foot and kicked his knee or something coming in, and that he made some comment to her. I can't remember what she said he said, but I know 63 saw the whole thing. She sits beside or between them, the two of them, I believe, so I heard her say something that she couldn't believe that he took it that way, similar comment to that, but I don't know exactly what happened because I wasn't paying attention what was going on in back of me, so I just overheard--
THE COURT: Do you recall--
JUROR NO. 1290: --353's comments and then 63's comments.
THE COURT: Do you recall how long ago that happened?
JUROR NO. 1290: It has probably been a month ago.
THE COURT: Okay.
JUROR NO. 1290: It has been a while.
THE COURT: Have you noticed any tension, any problems between 1489 and 353 since then?
JUROR NO. 1290: (No audible response.)
THE COURT: That is water under the bridge or is there still a tension there?
JUROR NO. 1290: There is a tension there. Now, I don't know if anything is being said or if it is just an underlying, you know, current of tension. I think some of that is bound to happen in this situation anyway, so I don't know--
THE COURT: Yeah.
JUROR NO. 1290: You know, I don't know exactly what is going on, other than those two little things that I--
THE COURT: Is there anything about the manner that the bailiffs are conducting themselves that you would characterize as unprofessional?
JUROR NO. 1290: I don't think so.
THE COURT: Or not the way it should be?
JUROR NO. 1290: I don't think so. I think they are really well-picked. I think they are very professional.
THE COURT: Have you had any problems or have you noticed any incidents where the bailiffs have not monitored, made all the phone calls in the phone room and then monitored what was going on anytime you have been left unattended in the phone room?
JUROR NO. 1290: Maybe for a few seconds. At first they used to call the next person in line, the next juror in line to make a call, and now they are having us, as we hang up from our call, to go call the next juror, but other than that, other than maybe a second--I would say maybe up to a minute at the most, they might leave the room to go and call somebody or something like that, but not for any length of time.
THE COURT: Okay. Have you noticed any situations where they have been playing cards and not bothered to get up to log the phone number and make the phone call themselves?
JUROR NO. 1290: I have seen them playing cards, and I think I've seen them do that, not log them in when they know who the person is calling and that they've called them before, but I think they always log it in, but they might not always make the phone call themselves. I know they let me call my autoteller, I've called my autoteller a couple of times or my answer machine at home, but I had to put it on speaker so they could hear the messages, that type of thing, they let me make a couple of calls like that, but not to any individual.
THE COURT: But they made you put it on the speaker?
JUROR NO. 1290: Yeah, when I was calling my answering machine.
THE COURT: Okay. Umm, is there any time during the family visitations or friend's visitation that you feel they haven't monitored things adequately?
JUROR NO. 1290: Probably so, when we are so spread out, they would almost have to have a deputy for each juror in a sense, because as soon as each juror has four or five visitors--
THE COURT: Although part of the thing, if they are just circling around, you just never know if they are going to wander by?
JUROR NO. 1290: That is true, I think they do that, but as far as being able to hear everything, I'm sure that would be impossible.
THE COURT: Of course, Juror no. 3, you know that we trust you and obviously we don't want to watch everything or overhear everything that you do so there has to be a certain level of trust that we give to you.
JUROR NO. 1290: Right, but I mean as far as hearing all conversations.
THE COURT: Have you ever had the impression that your room has been searched or any items have been moved around in your room?
JUROR NO. 1290: Yeah.
THE COURT: Tell me about that.
JUROR NO. 1290: Well, I don't know what to say except that I know things are in a different place than when I left them because I made it a point to look and make sure I checked after the maid had been in and then check later before I disturbed anything again myself.
THE COURT: Uh-huh.
JUROR NO. 1290: And I felt like things had been moved inside the cupboard.
THE COURT: What kind of things?
JUROR NO. 1290: (No audible response.)
THE COURT: Clothing items, toiletry items?
JUROR NO. 1290: In this case, I think tapes--my tape player, some items that I bought from Target, like my lens care products as if maybe they have been moved to look behind and see if there was--and I don't think I noticed anything in my closet, but just that--you know, the one cupboard that is the TV cabinet type that we use for storage.
THE COURT: That I took the TV out of?
JUROR NO. 1290: Yeah.
THE COURT: I have a lot of TV's.
JUROR NO. 1290: So--
THE COURT: All right. Is there anything that--any conduct by the bailiffs that you feel is promoting a racial tension among the jurors?
JUROR NO. 1290: I don't think so. I don't see that at all. In fact, I think they serve beyond the call of duty a lot of times, some of the things, you know, various jurors ask--
THE COURT: Such as?
JUROR NO. 1290: --and want. Like everything opened all at once and just kind of people are kind of demanding at times and they get upset if they can't have what they want. They want to start a movie right now and it is hard, say, like at seven o'clock when I think the new crew comes in at 7:30 and the changing of the guard type of situation, when they just can't open everything at one time and people grumble, various jurors get grumpy about that.
THE COURT: Is there anything about your treatment that makes you feel that one group of jurors is being treated better than another group?
JUROR NO. 1290: No.
THE COURT: Has there been any problems regarding shopping times between the various groups of jurors?
JUROR NO. 1290: Shopping--
THE COURT: Time available to shop?
JUROR NO. 1290: Maybe.
THE COURT: Are you aware of any problems like that?
JUROR NO. 1290: No. I think one problem with it is they designate who goes with who in what groups once we get into a store. Look, Juror no. so-and-so, you are going with Juror no. so-and-so, and I think that causes problems. You would rather be with a person that you are more compatible with maybe.
THE COURT: Has there been any problems regarding the use of gym time--do you think I should just assign who shops with who?
JUROR NO. 1290: No.
THE COURT: Okay. I mean, it may come to that. Is there any problem regarding the use of who gets to use the gym facilities?
JUROR NO. 1290: No. There seemed to be again one of those unspoken tension type situations.
THE COURT: Tell me about that.
JUROR NO. 1290: Okay. Originally the gym was on the 4th floor. That was the only one we had after ten o'clock, and--
THE COURT: Yeah.
JUROR NO. 1290: --and for a long time there were only three or four of us that went down there, I happened to be one of them, then it increased to more people wanting to be down there, which caused a little problem with the equipment, but you know, like a race for the treadmills and this type of thing, but other than that, other than a race for the equipment to see who gets on it first, because we only had the hour because we had to be out by 11:00, so that was a little conflict there, but when they opened the one upstairs, now I would think that should have eliminated any problems.
THE COURT: So is that working out okay with all the equipment?
JUROR NO. 1290: Yeah, that is working out fine I think. Now, there is times that I go in there I want to use the treadmill, somebody is on it, so I will use something--I will use the bicycle or come back later.
THE COURT: Is the treadmill the most popular piece of equipment?
JUROR NO. 1290: Uh-huh. Yeah, yes.
THE COURT: How many do we have? One?
JUROR NO. 1290: There is one treadmill and there is one what they call a Walk Fit, but it is a treadmill that is--works only with your own--under your own steam, which is hard, so yeah, two treadmills would be great, and there is a Nordic Track, there is two bikes, this is a stepper, so it is pretty nice really.
THE COURT: So if I could get one more treadmill that would make you happy?
JUROR NO. 1290: Well, I'm happy as it is, but yeah, I'm sure that would help to have another treadmill maybe in place of that Walk Fit.
THE COURT: Well, it was donated to us.
JUROR NO. 1290: Yeah, sure.
THE COURT: Yeah.
JUROR NO. 1290: No, I have no problem with it the way it is.
THE COURT: Is there room for another?
JUROR NO. 1290: No. Something would have to be removed I think to put in a treadmill because one of the jurors, you know, has brought some of his equipment from home in, which is really a nice--nice set-up. It is mostly weight--weight training machine.
THE COURT: Okay. Well, I will look into that. Maybe I will come over to the hotel and look at the gym set-up.
JUROR NO. 1290: I think it is fine, and as far as I know there has been no problem.
THE COURT: Okay.
JUROR NO. 1290: Some people seem to like to work out real late, but you know, dinner is at 6:00 so from 7:00 to 11:00 should be enough time for everybody to get in there I would think.
THE COURT: Any problems regarding phone times, any disparity or different treatment amongst groups?
JUROR NO. 1290: I think there is a little, but I think that mostly happens when a new deputy comes in that is not familiar. I think the biggest problem is they try to be nice and let people stay on the phone longer, not taking into consideration the people that are going to be waiting longer.
THE COURT: Are waiting?
JUROR NO. 1290: There was a 15-minute limit on the phones but we have fewer jurors now, I thought it might even be okay to put a 20-minute limit, you know, give people a few extra minutes and just you know stick to that as long as there is people waiting.
THE COURT: Okay.
JUROR NO. 1290: But I think it is just a situation where the deputies are tying to, you know, be nice let people stay longer.
THE COURT: Any problems regarding the scheduling and the use of the availability of the videotapes?
JUROR NO. 1290: That is so chaotic. I don't know what to say on that.
THE COURT: Should I just pick the movies?
JUROR NO. 1290: That probably wouldn't be a bad idea. That would be all right with me. You know the way I feel about it now anyways, if I like it, I watch it, and if I don't, I just leave, but some people, you know, kind of want you to watch the movie they want to see.
THE COURT: All right.
JUROR NO. 1290: So--
THE COURT: Well, that is why I had two TV rooms. I thought two would be enough.
JUROR NO. 1290: I know. We need one per room I guess, one per juror.
THE COURT: You see the problem is that if I do that, though, then the jurors will try to hook up an antenna and--
JUROR NO. 1290: I was being facetious when I said that.
THE COURT: It is actually something we thought about.
JUROR NO. 1290: Uh-huh.
THE COURT: And I even went so far as to get an electronics company to volunteer to give me 20 VCRs, but then it occurred to me that what would probably happen is that--unless you want to have a bailiff sitting in your room watching TV with you. Are there any racial tensions or groupings of problems?
JUROR NO. 1290: Well, I don't know. Nothing has been said that I could pinpoint where that really is a problem, so I don't know. I'm not aware of any specific situation or remark about race or--I don't know.
THE COURT: Okay. Has anything come to your attention that would indicate that any of the jury--any of the jurors have discussed the facts and circumstances of the case?
JUROR NO. 1290: I don't believe so. I haven't heard. I haven't heard anything like that.
THE COURT: Anything that would lead you to believe that anybody has already formed an opinion about the case?
JUROR NO. 1290: No, I can't say that.
THE COURT: Anything that would lead you to believe that any of the jurors have received information about the case from outside the court, either through family visits or phone calls or anything mailed to them, anything like that?
JUROR NO. 1290: Not that I know of. Now, I did hear one person upset talking to a deputy about that--that somebody had gone to their home or something like that.
THE COURT: When was that?
JUROR NO. 1290: I don't know. I think it was--
THE COURT: Which juror was that?
JUROR NO. 1290: I think it was 19 or--to their job or to their home, to their job. It may have been more than one juror but--but other than that, it was something that they were upset about and they went and discussed it with one of the deputies.
THE COURT: All right. Juror no. 3, is there anything else you feel I ought to know about or you want to tell me about?
JUROR NO. 1290: I don't think so. I just think this is a very unnatural situation, you know, being sequestered, and it is just going to, you know--
THE COURT: What do you think I can do to help you make it a better situation? I've tried to give you a lot of entertainment, exercise equipment, lots of videos.
JUROR NO. 1290: Yeah.
THE COURT: Outings, restaurant trips. I'm working on more stuff. I thought it was a real great thing to get Jay Leno to come in.
JUROR NO. 1290: Oh, yeah. I appreciated that. I did.
THE COURT: So I mean we are trying very hard to keep you entertained and not necessarily entertained, but give you diversions.
JUROR NO. 1290: Right.
THE COURT: What more do you think I can do for you? I'm open to suggestions.
JUROR NO. 1290: Nothing. I think--I don't see how you can go any further than you have already gone except let us just go home really, but I would like to see us work six days a week.
THE COURT: Okay.
JUROR NO. 1290: Or five and a half, just to--so we feel like we are really doing something all the time.
THE COURT: Okay. I don't know if you've noticed, but we've had a lot more court time lately.
JUROR NO. 1290: I have noticed that. I think that helps a lot.
THE COURT: How do you feel about your endurance at this point? You know, things obviously are going a little slower than I had hoped and we may be looking at July or August. How do you feel about that?
JUROR NO. 1290: Well, I thought that from the beginning really. I was thinking through July just in my own head.
THE COURT: Are you ready?
JUROR NO. 1290: Well, I have it a lot easier than some people, you know. I don't live with any family members, I'm not used to seeing them on a daily basis, so it makes it I think a little easier for me.
THE COURT: Getting a lot of reading done?
JUROR NO. 1290: Not much really. I have read I guess two and a half books since I've been here. Crocheted a couple doilies, watched a few movies.
THE COURT: Okay. If you have--Juror no. 3, also, if something comes to your attention that you need to talk to me about, all you need to do is tell the bailiffs that you need to talk to me or write me a short note that you need to talk to me. You should feel that that door is always opened and I will get to you, you know, as quickly as I can, understanding that I've got 53 other things that I have to worry about each and everyday, but your comfort and welfare I very deeply am concerned about. Mr. Cochran, Miss Clark?
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MR. COCHRAN: No.
THE COURT: Okay. Juror no. 3, I'm going to order you not to discuss this with any of the other jurors until I've completed all of this investigation. All right?
JUROR NO. 1290: All right.
THE COURT: Thank you very much, ma'am.
JUROR NO. 1290: Thank you.
(Juror no. 1290 exits chambers.)
THE COURT: Okay. Let's take a--
MR. SHAPIRO: I only need ten, fifteen minutes.
THE COURT: Do you want to call it quits now?
MS. CLARK: I would love to.
(Discussion held off the record.)
(Recess.)