Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge
APPEARANCES: (Appearances as heretofore noted.)
(Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)
(Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)
(Pages 33974 through 33995, volume 176A, transcribed and sealed under separate cover.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: Back on the record in the Simpson matter. Mr. Simpson is again present before the Court with his counsel, Mr. Blasier and Mr. Bailey. The People are represented by Miss Clark and Mr. Darden. Mr. Blasier, do you have a matter to take up this morning?
MR. BLASIER: Good morning, your Honor, very briefly. It is our recollection that Mr. Yamauchi testified on cross-examination that a photograph was taken of the Rockingham glove prior to the time that Dennis Fung removed a hair from it and prior to the time that he put his initials on it. We have been unable to locate a photograph like that and we would ask--make a discovery request that we be provided with a photo as soon as possible, if one exists.
THE COURT: All right. Miss Clark, Mr. Darden, do you have any information regarding that?
MS. CLARK: Isn't that the photograph in evidence of the--of the glove in place? I believe that it is.
THE COURT: Could very well be. My recollection is there was some dispute as to what the actual photograph was.
MR. BLASIER: Well, if there is such a photograph at the lab; I'm not talking about on the ground.
THE COURT: Mr. Blasier, you are a whiz with your computer. Do you happen to have the precise mention by Mr. Yamauchi of the glove so we can put it in context and perhaps from that determine which photograph we are talking about?
MR. BLASIER: I can do that at the break, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. If you would do that, and then if there is such a photograph, I will of course order its production.
MR. BLASIER: Thank you.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MS. CLARK: My understanding is that all photographs that have been taken have been turned over, so if they don't have it--
THE COURT: My recollection is that it came as news that there was a photograph of the glove prior, but then it was some explanation that was one of the crime scene photos or something of a vague recollection that I have probably 300 pages back there. Any other motors. Mr. Darden, good morning.
MR. DARDEN: Good morning, your Honor last week we filed p's and a's on the issue of whether or not we had a duty to called Thano Peratis to the stand.
THE COURT: Yes, I recollect that.
MR. DARDEN: Can we resolve that issue by today or tomorrow morning?
MR. BLASIER: Your Honor, Mr. Neufeld is handling that matter. He will be here in a little bit.
MR. DARDEN: Okay. Mr. Goldberg will be appearing.
MR. DOUGLAS: Your Honor, we have some p's and a's that are being typed that will be down later.
THE COURT: As to that issue?
MR. DOUGLAS: Right.
THE COURT: If the p's and a's are coming in today, perhaps I ought to have an evening to look at them and consider them, so perhaps we will take that up tomorrow.
MR. DARDEN: Thank you.
THE COURT: Anything else? Miss Clark, do you have your witness? Miss Lewis is back with us?
MS. CLARK: Yes, she is.
THE COURT: All right. Let's proceed. Let's have the jurors, please. Miss Clark, how much more do you have with Miss Lewis.
MS. CLARK: With Miss Lewis?
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Ten minutes.
THE COURT: Who is your witness after Miss Lewis.
MS. CLARK: Susan Brockbank.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: I believe she is present. There is, I believe, no new exhibits. There are some photographs of bindles that I need to show to Mr. Blasier before I begin with Miss Brockbank. I take it that is your witness?
MR. BLASIER: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And that is the only thing.
THE COURT: All right.
(Brief pause.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all of our jury members. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good morning.
THE COURT: All right. Miss Lewis, would you resume the witness stand, please.
Denise Lewis, the witness on the stand at the time of the evening adjournment, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
THE COURT: All right. Good morning, Miss Lewis.
MS. LEWIS: Good morning.
THE COURT: You are reminded, ma'am, you are still under oath. If you would just pull the microphone a little closer. Miss Clark, you may conclude your direct examination.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good morning.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MS. CLARK
MS. CLARK: When we left off you said that you were going to--you were beginning with the property for Nicole Brown Simpson, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MS. CLARK: And at that point you had clean butcher paper down, clean gloves and you were wearing your lab coat, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, as toward Nicole Brown, how many brown bags were there from the Coroner's office in her mesh bag?
MS. LEWIS: Only one.
MS. CLARK: And was there some marking on that bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, there was.
MS. CLARK: And what was marked on it, if you recall?
MS. LEWIS: "Panties, dress."
MS. CLARK: I have here a photograph, your Honor. Ask that it be marked People's next in order--
THE COURT: 429.
MS. CLARK: --429 is it?
THE COURT: 429, Mrs. Robertson.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
THE COURT: 429.
(Peo's 429 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: And showing you the photograph marked as 429, can you tell us if you recognize what you see on the monitor right now?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And what is that?
MS. LEWIS: That is the original brown paper bag that came from the Coroner's office containing Miss Brown's clothing.
MS. CLARK: And when you found it in the mesh bag, was it folded over?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: Was it sealed shut?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: And did you open that bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And when you opened that bag what did you see inside?
MS. LEWIS: A single dress and a pair of black panties.
MS. CLARK: Any bindles, paper bindles like you did before with Mr. Ron Goldman's property?
MS. LEWIS: No, ma'am.
MS. CLARK: Upon seeing that the bag contained dress and panties with no other bindles, what did you do?
MS. LEWIS: At the time I proceeded to remove the items from the bag and lay the items down on the white butcher block paper that I had down.
MS. CLARK: Did you do anything with respect to the items in the frozen analysis envelope of physical evidence that had been sent over to you from the Coroner's office; namely, Nicole Brown's EDTA swatch, hair kit, fingernail kit and blood scrapings?
MS. LEWIS: Yes. They were at that time numbered. Since there were--there was no additional physical evidence discovered with the clothing items from the Coroner's office, I proceeded to continue with the numbering system for the physical evidence of Miss Brown.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: Do you recall what you numbered those items?
MS. LEWIS: May I refer to my notes?
MS. CLARK: Yes.
MS. LEWIS: (Witness complies.) The EDTA swatch was item number--given item no. 82; the decedent's hair kit, 83; the fingernail kit, 84. There were two packages that were physical evidence packets that were labeled by the Coroner's office as blood scrapings. They both were given item no. 85.
MS. CLARK: Item no. 85 collectively?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MS. CLARK: Showing you now the photograph that has previously been marked as People's 414, do you see the item depicted with the number "83" in the upper right-hand corner?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And is that Nicole Brown's decedent's hair kit?
MS. LEWIS: Could I have a focus of the actual envelope?
MS. CLARK: Yes.
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And is that your handwriting in which the number "75" is crossed out?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And are those your initials next to that?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, they are.
MS. CLARK: And the number "83," is that your writing?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: So is that the number that you assigned to her hair kit in this case?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And that--if we could back up a minute. Those smaller envelopes that you see to the right, were they sealed inside--you did not see them, correct?
MS. LEWIS: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: They were presumably sealed inside that larger envelope to the left?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MS. CLARK: And that envelope was sealed? You did not open it?
MS. LEWIS: Exactly.
MS. CLARK: After you numbered the smaller envelopes and the decedent's envelope, decedent's hair kit envelope, as 82 through 85, what did you do next?
MS. LEWIS: Then the white frozen envelope--analyzed evidence envelope was sealed.
MS. CLARK: And by that you are referring to the envelope depicted earlier in People's 413?
MS. LEWIS: (No audible response.)
MS. CLARK: That one?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And after you completed the renumbering of the decedent's hair kit and the other physical items that you indicate were in envelopes, what did you do next?
MS. LEWIS: Well, this item was placed back in the freezer in the supply room area.
MS. CLARK: In a sealed condition?
MS. LEWIS: Sealed condition, and then I proceeded to go back to put on new gloves and return to the butcher block paper which had Miss Brown's clothing on it.
MS. CLARK: And did you take her dress out?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And place it on the butcher paper?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And there were panties in that as well?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you removed her dress from the bag, was there any obvious hair or trace that you could see just on your cursory glance?
MS. LEWIS: None that I observed.
THE COURT: Which photo was this?
MS. CLARK: Yes. This will be marked now, your Honor, People's 430.
THE COURT: All right. People's 430.
(Peo's 430 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: And showing you now the photograph marked as People's 430, can you tell us if you recognize what is depicted there?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: What is it?
MS. LEWIS: It is the black dress that was received from the Coroner's office.
MS. CLARK: And the bag that is in the--that is to the upper right of that dress, do you recognize that?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: What is that?
MS. LEWIS: It is the bag that I placed the dress into after I booked the item.
MS. CLARK: Okay. The bags that were initially shown in People's 429, was that the original bag that you received from the Coroner's office, the earlier photograph that was marked "Dress and panties"?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: The one that is now in front of you?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: All right. Thank you. When you removed the dress from that bag, you then created a new bag for the dress?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And the one shown in this photograph People's 430 is that bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: Now, after you examined the dress and put it into that bag, did you examine the butcher paper that it had been laying on for hair or trace?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Did you see any?
MS. LEWIS: No, ma'am.
MS. CLARK: How about your gloves, did you look at them for hair or trace?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Did you see any?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MS. CLARK: After you made the markings on the bag shown in People's 430, what did do you with it?
MS. LEWIS: The bag was sealed and then it was placed on the counter with the other sealed items.
MS. CLARK: Did you give it an item number?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: What was that?
MS. LEWIS: Item 86.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And is that number shown on the bag in the photograph People's 430?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it does--yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do after that?
MS. LEWIS: Proceeded to look at the panties.
MS. CLARK: Did you change paper or gloves before looking at the panties?
MS. LEWIS: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: And why is that?
MS. LEWIS: Because they came from the same bag from the Coroner's office, so if there was any cross-contamination, it had already occurred.
MS. CLARK: Showing you a new photograph, your Honor, ask that it be marked People's 431.
THE COURT: People's 431.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
(Peo's 431 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Do you recognize what is being shown here?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: What is that?
MS. LEWIS: They are the black panties that I received from the Coroner's office that were part of Miss Brown's clothing.
MS. CLARK: They were originally contained with the dress in the same bag, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: The bag that is to the left of those panties, do you recognize that?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And--
MS. LEWIS: That is the bag that I placed the panties into when I finished booking them.
MS. CLARK: Is that your handwriting on the bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: Did you see any obvious hair or trace on the panties?
MS. LEWIS: None was observed.
MS. CLARK: After you got done with them, where did you put them?
MS. LEWIS: They were placed into the bag, the bag was sealed and it was placed on the counter.
MS. CLARK: Was there any--
MS. LEWIS: I'm sorry, before I sealed the bag I would have looked at the butcher block paper and my gloves once again because at that stage that was the last item from the Coroner's office.
MS. CLARK: And did you see any hair or trace on the butcher paper or on your gloves?
MS. LEWIS: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do with your gloves and the butcher paper?
MS. LEWIS: The gloves, the butcher paper were both discarded.
MS. CLARK: And did you give the panties an item number?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what is that?
MS. LEWIS: Item no. 87.
MS. CLARK: And the--the number that is on the bag, as it was in the previous bags that you made for the items, do they all contain the DR number for this case?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, they do.
MS. CLARK: At this point then were all the bags of clothing for both Ronald Goldman and Nicole Brown in their sealed bags that you created for them?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: And they were all given item numbers at this point?
MS. LEWIS: They were given item numbers all the way along. As I would put them in the bag they were given the item numbers. There was a slight delay on--for Mr. Goldman's items initially because I had to wait obviously until I had all the items that I had.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, the original brown bags that you received the clothing in from the Coroner's office, what did do you with them?
MS. LEWIS: They were--as I had taken each individual item out of the bags, I had folded them over and basically kept them secure. Once then I gathered them all together and put the bags together and then bound them with some cotton string.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: And you bound them with twine, is it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And where did you put them?
MS. LEWIS: Had when I--my next step basically would have been to put the packaging together, the bags together to house the--all the clothing evidence for both victims, so the box was placed together. The items of clothing from both victims were placed in the box and the paper that--the bags that were received from the Coroner's office that I had at this point wrapped with twine or string was also placed into the box, as well as the white mesh that came from the Coroner's office.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So the white mesh bags that initially held the bags for Ron Goldman, one for Ron Goldman and one for Nicole Brown, you put that in the box as well?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And into that same box went the sealed bags of their clothing?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And the bags that initially were given to you by the Coroner, the brown bags that you wrapped in twine?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: People's next in order, your Honor, People's 432.
THE COURT: People's 432, a photo of a box.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
(Peo's 432 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 432, do you recognize what is shown here?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: What is that?
MS. LEWIS: That is the box that I put together and it contains the items, the bound paper bags for the Coroner's office. Also I see a white mesh bag. I can't tell if it is one or two bags.
MS. CLARK: Does that look like the white mesh--one of the white mesh bags, though, that you received from the Coroner's office that contained the items for Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it does.
MS. CLARK: And so is that a picture of the box into which you placed all of the items you just described having placed in the box?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And after you did that, placed the victim's clothing, the bags and the mesh bags into that box, what did you do?
MS. LEWIS: Then the box was sealed.
MS. CLARK: People's next in order, People's 433, your Honor.
THE COURT: 433.
(Peo's 433 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 433, I'm going to ask you to zoom up on the tag. Do you recognize this box?
MS. LEWIS: I recognize the box, but that is not my writing on the tag.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Does it show your name on the tag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it does.
MS. CLARK: And does it show item numbers in that--on that tag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it does.
MS. CLARK: And is that 78 to 80, 86 and 87?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: Are those in fact the item numbers for the items that you did put into the box?
MS. LEWIS: Excuse me. I think it is a 78, which would be appropriate.
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh.
MS. LEWIS: It should be 78 through 80 and 86 and 87.
MS. CLARK: And those are the item numbers for the items that you did put in the box; is that correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, they are.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: And does that look like the box that you put everything into, that you've just described?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it does.
MS. CLARK: Did you seal that box?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: With what?
MS. LEWIS: It is sealed with packing tape, two directions, and at then at that stage I put a Los Angeles Police Department evidence tag over it or evidence tape and also a tag.
MS. CLARK: Now, what about the--
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: People's next in order, your Honor, People's 4--
THE COURT: 34.
MS. CLARK: --34, thank you.
(Peo's 434 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 434, we are going to zoom in on that white tag. Do you recognize what is shown to you in this photograph?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: Is that your handwriting?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And what does that signify to you?
MS. LEWIS: That is the Los Angeles Police Department evidence tape that we use. It is the seal that we also used to put on our envelopes and on our cartons for--to make sure it is a final seal that we put on it.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, this is not the seal that you put on on the 27th or the 28th, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MS. CLARK: But it is like the seal that you used on that date?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, you earlier indicated that you had given item no. 75 to 77 to the paper bindles containing soil and debris from Ron Goldman's packages?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what did do you with those bindles?
MS. LEWIS: Those bindles were placed in a brown manila envelope that we have. It is marked on the envelope as shelf storage.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: And People's 435, your Honor.
THE COURT: People's 435.
(Peo's 435 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Do you recognize what is shown to you in this photograph?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: What is that?
MS. LEWIS: That is the analyzed evidence shelf storage envelope that I placed items 75 through 77.
MS. CLARK: Is that your handwriting on the envelope?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: Was that sealed by you?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: Now, after having sealed the soil bindles into that envelope, what did you do next?
MS. LEWIS: The soil and the box of clothing, the carton, were placed on the side and at that point then I went to complete the police report.
MS. CLARK: And what kind of report is it that you complete?
MS. LEWIS: It is a property report.
MS. CLARK: Just itemizing what it is you saw?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, and describing the items.
MS. CLARK: And the item numbers that you gave to them?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, you began your work in this case on the 27th of June?
MS. LEWIS: I received the items on the 27th of June, yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And you completed your work on the--what day?
MS. LEWIS: On June 28th.
MS. CLARK: Overnight where were the items stored?
MS. LEWIS: The carton of clothing and the shelf storage envelope were housed or kept inside the evidence processing room. The frozen analyzed evidence envelope was--remained in the freezer in the storage area. Both areas are secured.
MS. CLARK: And by "Secured," what do you mean?
MS. LEWIS: The only way to get into these two rooms is you have to have an i.d. Badge that the investigation division has and only certain individuals can get into these areas.
MS. CLARK: Now, were all the of clothing sealed overnight then?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: In the box?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: And also individually in their bags?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: On the following day on June 28th was there any disturbance to any of the seals on the bags or on the box?
MS. LEWIS: No, there wasn't.
MS. CLARK: And the hair of both of the victims that you kept in the frozen envelope in the freezer, had that been disturbed?
MS. LEWIS: No, it had not.
MS. CLARK: After you typed up your report, what did you do with the box containing the clothing, the frozen analysis envelope containing the hair kits and the soil and debris envelope?
MS. LEWIS: After the report was typed up, I went and picked up the items from the evidence processing room and from the storage room and then transported them over to our evidence control unit where I booked the items.
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I have a large board and ask that it be marked People's 436.
THE COURT: 436.
(Peo's 436 for id = posterboard)
(Brief pause.)
THE COURT: Go ahead and step down and take a look.
MS. CLARK: I'm going to direct your attention specifically to the items in the upper left-hand corner, 73, 79, 81, 83 and 86. Are those the items with the item numbers that are depicted there, the same as you've testified to here in court?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, they are.
MS. CLARK: Thank you. I have nothing further.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Blasier.
MR. BLASIER: Thank you, your Honor. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good morning.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BLASIER
MR. BLASIER: Good morning, Miss Lewis.
MS. LEWIS: Good morning.
MR. BLASIER: How are you today?
MS. LEWIS: Fine, thank you.
MR. BLASIER: Miss Lewis, you have been referring to a report that you wrote at the time that you processed these items?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I have.
MR. BLASIER: Now, is that the property report that just lists the items by number?
MS. LEWIS: I've basically been referring to two lists; one is the property report and the other one were just my rough notes that I was making when I was booking the item.
MR. BLASIER: So those rough notes were made at the time that you were doing what you've testified to?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Could I take a look at those rough notes?
MS. LEWIS: Certainly.
(Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: Your Honor, could we have a copy of this made?
THE COURT: Certainly. (Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: Is it accurate that neither your rough notes or your property report contain descriptions of taking things out of bags, putting butcher paper on the table and all the details that you've described to us yesterday and today?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you prepared a separate report that does describe a lot of those things, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I did.
MR. BLASIER: And when did you prepare that separate report?
MS. LEWIS: It was prepared in January when I found out I was requesting to be involved with the case.
MR. BLASIER: And do you have that with you?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, I do.
MR. BLASIER: Could I see that, please?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
(Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: Did you prepare that report at anyone's request?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: You did that on your own?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, when you write a report like that, what happens to it?
MS. LEWIS: It is my personal information. Nothing happens to it.
MR. BLASIER: Do you--what did you do with that report when you wrote it in January?
MS. LEWIS: It stayed in the computer.
MR. BLASIER: I'm sorry?
MS. LEWIS: It just stayed in the computer.
MR. BLASIER: Your computer at work?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Do your procedures at LAPD require that when you write a report you make it part of a file somewhere?
MS. LEWIS: If it is a formal report, yes, they are, such as the property report that I have. As for personal notes, no.
MR. BLASIER: You are not required to have your personal notes put in a file somewhere where your supervisors, for instance, can review them or they can be provided in discovery in a criminal case?
MS. LEWIS: Not for this type of procedure. Not for Coroner's evidence, no.
MR. BLASIER: And where does it say there is an exception for Coroner's evidence in terms of making your report available to the Defense, for instance?
MS. LEWIS: These reports were available if they--they were given--supplied to the Prosecution, if they were needed. It was--it is not that they are not available.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. When were they provided to the Prosecution?
MS. LEWIS: The paper listing my rough notes that I took at the time of--when I was doing the evidence, processing the evidence, that was supplied, I believe it was in January, when I first found out that I was going to be involved in the case, and the notes--the typed notes of basically the order that I did things, that was supplied just yesterday.
MR. BLASIER: Since you worked on this case has anybody from the Prosecutor's office requested that you turn over any notes or reports that you wrote?
MS. LEWIS: When I spoke to Miss Clark in January she asked for the information that I had, any notes that I had, and it was supplied at that time. This was done after my meeting with her.
MR. BLASIER: So in January do you remember what date that was that you gave her your notes?
MS. LEWIS: No, I don't.
MR. BLASIER: But it was in January of this year?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: As a follow-up to that meeting is why you typed out this other report?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Did she ask you to type out the report?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: When you typed it up, did you call her and say, "Here is a report, here is my report of what I did"?
MS. LEWIS: No, I did not.
MR. BLASIER: Did she tell you to write a report?
MS. LEWIS: No, she did not.
MR. BLASIER: Did she tell you not to write a report?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you've been with the Los Angeles Police Department since 1981?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Is it your habit and custom, when you write a report of something that you do like that, to keep it to yourself?
MS. LEWIS: I have my own files. This is the first time I have--I have made a report such as this. It is the only case that I have gone to court on, so it is the only time I have completed this type of procedure.
MR. BLASIER: Now, when Miss Clark asked you for your notes in January, did you--did you understand that she wanted everything that you might have written about what you did?
MS. LEWIS: When she asked me for my notes I gave her the notes that I had completed at that time. These were--it was for my recollection, it was after the meeting when she asked me for everything. I wasn't--I didn't know if this was going to be necessary or what was going to happen. It was just to try to refresh my recollection as to the order I did things.
MR. BLASIER: How many times have you testified in court in your capacity as an employee at SID?
MS. LEWIS: This is my first time.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. But you have worked on many cases, have you not?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: You are familiar with the procedures at SID has about writing reports and putting them in files?
MS. LEWIS: Formal reports, yes.
MR. BLASIER: And there is some--is there some exception, is it either written or oral, that says you don't have to turn over some reports?
MS. LEWIS: Not that I know of.
MR. BLASIER: Is that your understanding, is that the habit and custom of other people at SID, to write reports that they keep as part of their own personal papers and don't make a part of the file?
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. LEWIS: I don't know what other people do.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the report that you wrote in January is approximately five pages long?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And there is a lot of detail in that report about putting butcher paper down, changing gloves. It is a very detailed report, is it not?
MS. LEWIS: It is not complete, but it is detailed, yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, did you prepare that report based on the notes that I have here now, the rough notes, and your typed property report?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the rough notes that you have and the property report don't have details about the specific steps you went through for each particular item, do they?
MS. LEWIS: No, they don't.
MR. BLASIER: Did you--in writing your report did do you that from a specific recollection that you had done those things or that is just your common practice?
MS. LEWIS: Combination of both.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. Have you been assigned to the hair and trace unit since 1981?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: What has been your assignment--well, let me rephrase that. At the time when you processed the items in this case, had you been--were you assigned full-time to working that area?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And when I say "Hair and trace," is that all in one unit?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And trace evidence includes fibers, soil, other types of items like that, small items?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, your responsibilities, did they involve going to crime scenes or just processing evidence back at the lab?
MS. LEWIS: Going to crime scenes. I'm actually part of the field unit, which is part of the trace unit; it is sort of a dual unit.
MR. BLASIER: Incidentally, when you turned over your typed report to Miss Clark, did you tell her that you had done it way back in January?
MS. LEWIS: I didn't tell Miss Clark. I told one of the other Assistant District Attorneys.
MR. BLASIER: Who was that?
MS. LEWIS: Mr. Escobar.
MR. BLASIER: And in what date was that that you turned that over?
MS. LEWIS: Yesterday.
MR. BLASIER: How long had you been assigned to the hair and trace unit as of June of last year?
MS. LEWIS: I have been assigned since June of 1993.
MR. BLASIER: So you had been there about a year?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: How many people are assigned to the hair and trace unit in the lab?
MS. LEWIS: Five; six counting myself.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you indicated on direct yesterday that when you started to examine these items you used opaque lighting. Do you mean oblique lighting?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, sorry.
MR. BLASIER: Oblique lighting is where you shine a light from the side on something to see if you can see something, hair or trace, that sort of thing, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes. Did I say I looked--when I'm in field in I'm looking for trace evidence, yes, I use the lighting. On this case I did not because that is not my purpose with booking Coroner's evidence.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. So your specific purpose was not really to identify what hair and trace evidence was on those items?
MS. LEWIS: Exactly.
MR. BLASIER: It was merely taking it from the Coroner's system and putting it into the LAPD system?
MS. LEWIS: In this case, correct.
MR. BLASIER: Now, would you agree, given your experience with hair and trace evidence, that it is difficult, if not impossible, to actually see hair and trace evidence with the naked eye on clothing or other evidentiary items?
MS. LEWIS: It is not difficult. There are some items that are smaller, and yes, it is, but for the most part you can see it if you look carefully enough.
MR. BLASIER: If you are looking carefully for it?
MS. LEWIS: Exactly.
MR. BLASIER: But if you are not looking carefully for it, it is not the sort of things that jump out at you as soon as you look at an evidence item is it?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: When you are processing items when you actually try to identify hair and trace, you do far more than just look at it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: You use lighting, you use microscopes, you use other things to allow you to visualize whatever evidence might be on there that you can't see with the naked eye?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: Now, I think you described the evidence coming from the Coroner's office as how many bags total?
MS. LEWIS: There were two white mesh bags that came from the Coroner's office.
MR. BLASIER: And were those mesh bags sealed in any fashion?
MS. LEWIS: They are closed. I don't recall in this case if it was sealed with tape. Sometimes they are. Sometimes they are just closed, they are tied up with twine.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. Inside the mesh package was there then also another package that contained all the items for each bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Was that sealed?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, they were.
MR. BLASIER: Could you take a look at the report that you typed in January in the first paragraph. Don't you indicate in that that those packages were unsealed?
MS. LEWIS: With the two unsealed packages I was referring to the manila envelopes that contained the physical evidence. They are sealed only in the sense they've got the clasp that is folded out, otherwise they are not sealed. I wouldn't consider it as sealed.
MR. BLASIER: Well, you indicated in your report that the evidence was transported from the Coroner's office in two unsealed packages, one for each case, and a tied white mesh bundle for each victim.
MS. LEWIS: Okay.
MR. BLASIER: Now, are you saying now that what that means is that there were two white mesh bundle packages as well as two additional packages?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. And the packages that had the hair samples and other swatches, those were unsealed?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you took those items and put them in freezer bags or frozen evidence storage bags, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Bag, yes.
MR. BLASIER: To your knowledge had they been kept that way at the Coroner's office?
MS. LEWIS: Could you restate, please?
MR. BLASIER: To your knowledge had those items of evidence, which you felt should be kept in a frozen storage bag, been kept in frozen storage at the Coroner's office?
MS. LEWIS: I have no knowledge.
MR. BLASIER: Were they in any kind of a container that indicated that they had been kept frozen?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Did they feel cold?
MS. LEWIS: Not to my recollection.
MR. BLASIER: When you got those packages, you got those from Miss Degrandis?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And she works where?
MS. LEWIS: At the time she was assigned to the evidence control unit.
MR. BLASIER: Did those packages, were they accompanied by any kind of a log or record that showed who collected them, when they were collected, who might have had access to them, that sort of thing?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: And this was on June 27th, which would have been almost two weeks after the murders?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: More than two weeks. Did you have any way of telling, from looking at those bags, who at the Coroner's office had put them in the bags?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Did you have any way of knowing who in the Coroner's office or elsewhere might have had access to the bags before you got them?
MS. LEWIS: No. Excuse me. The only thing--there is a name that is listed on the physical evidence anyway. The items are signed off by someone from the Coroner's office. Whether it is an investigator or the Coroner, I do not know, but that is the only record that I know of.
MR. BLASIER: When you say someone signed them off, what kind of a record is that?
MS. LEWIS: On the envelopes there is a place for the Coroner's--someone from the Coroner's office to sign the envelopes.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. That is the envelopes with the swatches, the hair kits, fingernail kits?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And that is the envelope that was not sealed?
MS. LEWIS: No, that is on the sealed envelopes.
MR. BLASIER: On the inside?
MS. LEWIS: Right. The envelopes that are not sealed is just the way the Coroner's office gives it to our evidence control officer to transport it. Everything inside the envelopes is sealed.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the ones that the envelopes that are sealed, do they have a record on them of who might have opened those bindles at any particular time and examined them and closed them back up again?
MS. LEWIS: It has a name on it that refers to who sealed it. I don't know if it has been opened again.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. So you have no way of knowing whether someone, from the time it was put in those bindles until the time you got it, opened it and looked at it?
MS. LEWIS: Other than the fact that the tape hadn't been disturbed, no other indication.
MR. BLASIER: What kind of tape was it?
MS. LEWIS: It is a red seal from the Coroner's office.
MR. BLASIER: Did their seal require that a name be written on it, just like yours.
MS. LEWIS: It doesn't have a space on it for a name like ours does, no.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the bags with the clothing in them, did they have--how were they sealed?
MS. LEWIS: They were in a brown paper bag, and once again, it just had Coroner's red seal paper over the bags where it was folded over.
MR. BLASIER: I'm sorry?
MS. LEWIS: It was folded over and sealed.
MR. BLASIER: With no indication on the bag at all who sealed it?
MS. LEWIS: There are possibly some initials, but I can't--usually there will be initials and sometimes a date. I don't know specifically on this case what those initials were or for sure if there were some.
MR. BLASIER: All right. So you don't even know whether they were on there for this case?
MS. LEWIS: I would have to look at the bags again.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. Did you make this part of your notes about what information was on the bags from the Coroner's office?
MS. LEWIS: Only the white bindles that I received.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the bags with the clothing, did--was there any way to tell on those bags how many people might have opened them up and looked at them before they got to you?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: When items come from the Coroner's typically, is one of your duties to process those kind of items?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: How many times have you done that, roughly?
MS. LEWIS: Around 200.
MR. BLASIER: Is it standard practice for the Coroner's office to provide the clothing in the manner in which it was provided in this case?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, when you examine these items, you described in considerable detail how--what kind of precautions you take to avoid contamination or having trace evidence moved from one place to another, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: And you put on a lab coat. What is the purpose for that?
MS. LEWIS: To protect myself and also to protect the items, so I don't transfer any items from myself or from the evidence that I'm handling to each other.
MR. BLASIER: And is the reason for that because on our clothing and things that we wear, and maybe in our hair, we can be transporters of hair and trace evidence from one place to another without even knowing it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Things can fall off our clothing and wind up on the evidence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Can fall out of our hair and wind up on the evidence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: So the lab coat that you wear is designed to make sure that there is no transfer of trace evidence from you to the evidence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, one of the functions.
MR. BLASIER: Is that a standard practice that you use?
MS. LEWIS: Either a cloth lab coat or a disposal lab coat, yes.
MR. BLASIER: And is that what you have been trained to do at LAPD?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you also indicated that you--sometime these are even disposable lab coats?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And what is the purpose of having a disposable lab coat?
MS. LEWIS: Basically it is the ease of when you can't find your own lab coat.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. But it is also because when you process some evidence with a lab coat on, there is a possibility that evidence from--hair and trace evidence from what you are processing can get on that lab coat and then possibly contaminate the next case?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: So having a disposable lab coat allows you to prevent that from happening as well?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you indicated that you were wearing disposable sleeves?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Are these made out of paper, fabric?
MS. LEWIS: It is a disposal paper product, the same as the disposable lab coats.
MR. BLASIER: Are those designed particularly so that they don't shed anything, to your knowledge?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: How far up do they go on your arms?
MS. LEWIS: For me it goes all the way up underneath the arms.
MR. BLASIER: And down to the wrist area?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And again is the purpose for that a further precaution to prevent you from transferring trace evidence to the evidence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And those being disposable, that also affects the next scene that might be processed because you are going to throw those sleeves away that might have gotten trace evidence on them that you don't see?
MS. LEWIS: Right.
MR. BLASIER: And I think you indicated that one of the reasons you wear those sleeves is because you can inadvertently perhaps brush something in the evidence and pick up something on your sleeve without knowing it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And would you agree that the nature of hair and trace evidence is such that it doesn't necessarily or it can be removed from a surface fairly easily and it can be blown off by the wind?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it can.
MR. BLASIER: When you were examining these items, you--as I understand it, you had moved to the evidence processing room?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And that is the same room where Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola had processed evidence that you had--I think you said you watched Mr. Yamauchi process some evidence?
MS. LEWIS: A couple of items, yes.
MR. BLASIER: And that is in that area of the lab that has the big roll-up door on the end?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And the drying areas in the back where the big walk-in kind of drying--
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: --container. Now, when you go--went in to process this evidence, was there anybody else in there with you?
MS. LEWIS: Not that I recall.
MR. BLASIER: Was that big roll-up door opened?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you wouldn't process evidence with that big roll-up door opened, would you?
MS. LEWIS: (No audible response.)
MR. BLASIER: Not when you are processing for hair and trace?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: And the reason for that is because air currents--
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: --might come in and mess up your evidence, right?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Do you try and avoid having other people wandering around while you are doing this to also prevent the same thing, that currents from people just walking, flapping their coats or whatever might cause some sort of disturbance in the trace evidence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Do you wear a hairnet when you are doing this?
MS. LEWIS: With the Coroner's case, not usually.
MR. BLASIER: Now, people lose hair everyday, don't they?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Some more than others. I mean, people lose approximately a hundred hairs a day, don't they?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: So without even knowing it, your hair may be coming off at various times at places where you frequent?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: One reason for wearing a hairnet might be to prevent your own hair from contaminating the evidence, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: If you don't wear some kind of protective gear over your head, then the possibility exists that hair might get on the evidence that you didn't intend it to and you may not even see it?
MS. LEWIS: Right.
MR. BLASIER: And what you've described in terms of the precautions you take, that is your common practice in every case that you work on, isn't it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And that is very important when you are considering--when you are processing items for hair and trace evidence?
MS. LEWIS: In all cases.
MR. BLASIER: In all cases. Do you--did you take the same training that Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola took in terms of how to process evidence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: So it is part of your training program that when you are processing evidence for hair trace, and perhaps for any other type of evidence that you might be looking for, you wear lab coats, possibly disposable sleeves, gloves, you avoid a lot of people in the room, all those of precautions that you are trained to take?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And presumably they are trained to take those as well?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And does that hold also for changing the butcher paper each time you look at an item? When you are done with it, you throw the paper--you look at the paper for trace evidence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And if there is trace evidence, you take it and you pour it into the bag that has that piece of evidence, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: That is so if something falls off a piece of evidence, you want to make sure it doesn't get separated from that item?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: Because there may be an evidentiary value in whatever falls off of an item?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: It is also very common that things fall off of items, hair and trace evidence can fall off of items fairly easily?
MS. LEWIS: They can.
MR. BLASIER: It is not unusual at all when you take a clothing out to look at it that you are going to wind up with something on that paper that needs to be preserved?
MS. LEWIS: Actually it is not as common as you are making it sound. If you are careful, you can keep things from falling down.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. But there were--in many of the items that you examined here, there were extra bindles that had been put in the bags because items had come off of the evidence and someone had put them in a bindle to make sure they stayed with the evidence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And that was true--I mean, how many bindles were there like that in just this case?
MS. LEWIS: There were three additional bindles.
MR. BLASIER: So in this case, is that an unusual--well, let me rephrase. When you ordinarily process Coroner's cases, do they, to your knowledge, save evidence that falls off of items?
MS. LEWIS: They have, yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, it is not usual at all that you get items from the Coroner's office that have bindles like--like in this case, is it?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Do you ever see bindles in the evidence items like you saw in this case?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: So you have no way of knowing whether the Coroner's office routinely saves items--trace evidence that might fall off of evidence items?
MS. LEWIS: On several other cases I have also received items such as the hair. They will put in physical evidence packets and they will state that the hair or blood scrapings was removed from the victim's shirt, jacket, under the sleeves, whatever.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. Those are items that they specifically take off of--of a body or off of evidence, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: In terms of items that might fall off that they weren't intending to take off just by virtue of them inspecting an item, they don't routinely put those in bindles so that they are preserved, do they?
MS. CLARK: Objection, calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BLASIER: In your experience do you ever see bindles that are--that have written on them or indicated that this--this is debris that fell off an item when it was inspected?
MS. LEWIS: This is the only case I've seen that, yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the bindles in this case that you saw had writing on it indicating that something occurred while DR Baden was present, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And Gary Siglar, whose name is on those bindles, is a Coroner's employee, is he not?
MS. LEWIS: I don't know his status.
MR. BLASIER: Have you ever checked to see who he works for?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: You are aware that DR Baden is a Defense witness, Defense expert?
MS. LEWIS: I am now.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you indicated that you had seen Collin Yamauchi and perhaps others working on evidence items in this case earlier?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, do you remember what day that was?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Was that in the evidence processing room?
MS. LEWIS: In the evidence processing room and also other areas of the lab.
MR. BLASIER: What other areas?
MS. LEWIS: Trace and I believe serology.
MR. BLASIER: What items did you see being worked on in the evidence processing room?
MS. LEWIS: I remember seeing Collin handling the glove. I believe that was very shortly after the homicides.
MR. BLASIER: Was that in the morning?
MS. LEWIS: I don't recall.
MR. BLASIER: When he was handling the glove, what was he doing?
MS. LEWIS: I believe he was looking for blood, looking at or looking for blood on the glove.
MR. BLASIER: Now, when he was handling the glove, was he moving it around looking at it--was he looking at it under a microscope?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: So he was doing just a visual search?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And handling it and moving it around, turning it over, I assume, and looking everywhere he could.
MS. LEWIS: He was minimally handling it. I remember it being on the table. I don't remember rough handling or bouncing around or anything.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. But he was moving it around with his hand?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Did you see him taking any cuttings from the glove?
MS. LEWIS: I don't recall.
MR. BLASIER: Was Dennis Fung there when he was handling the glove?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Did you see any other items of evidence that were being worked on at that time?
MS. LEWIS: At that time? No.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you had gone into the evidence processing room, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: So there would be a record of you going in the door there?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: How many other people were in there looking around?
MS. LEWIS: No one else.
MR. BLASIER: Would it be fair to say that when the evidence started coming in on this particular case, that everybody in the lab knew about it?
MS. LEWIS: I don't know about everybody.
MR. BLASIER: I mean this was a big case, wasn't it?
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. LEWIS: We have a lot of big cases and we had a lot going on at that time, too, so--
MR. BLASIER: This was a big case, wasn't it?
MS. LEWIS: I guess, yes.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. And one of the reasons you were going into the evidence processing room was to see what was going on?
MS. LEWIS: No. I had business in the evidence processing room.
MR. BLASIER: What kind of business?
MS. LEWIS: I'm responsible for taking care of the evidence processing room and I don't know at that time if I was going in because I had Coroner's evidence or what the situation was or if I was going in to straighten up.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. Are you aware that there were two other cases with evidence in that room at the same time?
MS. CLARK: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence, calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BLASIER: Do you know whether or not there was evidence in other cases from that room at the same time that Mr. Yamauchi was handling the glove?
MS. LEWIS: I don't personally recall.
MR. BLASIER: That wouldn't be unusual, would it, to have evidence from more than one case in that room at the same time?
MS. LEWIS: Not at all.
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. BLASIER: Now, I think you had indicated that you had also seen some work being done on the knit cap?
MS. LEWIS: I remember seeing the knit cap, yes.
MR. BLASIER: Where was that?
MS. LEWIS: I believe it was in the trace unit.
MR. BLASIER: And who was working on it?
MS. LEWIS: I don't recall.
MR. BLASIER: Was it Susan Brockbank?
MS. LEWIS: Possibly.
MR. BLASIER: But it could be somebody else?
MS. CLARK: Objection. That calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BLASIER: Was there--was this around the same time that you saw Mr. Yamauchi handling the glove?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: That was at--how much difference in time was there? Was it like a week later or later in the day?
MS. LEWIS: I don't recall.
MR. BLASIER: You don't have any recollection of that?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: What other evidence did you see other people working on, that you can recall?
MS. LEWIS: I remember seeing evidence. I can't tell you exactly what it was. It is just a generalization. I remember there was evidence in the room. People were working on various things. I don't remember specifics.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. People were working on various things in the same room?
MS. LEWIS: In various rooms, yes.
MR. BLASIER: And was this all right shortly after the homicide?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: The hair kits that were in each of the envelopes contained several different kind of hair, did they not?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Do you remember what those different kinds were?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: What were they?
MS. LEWIS: For Mr. Goldman it was head hair, facial hair and arm hair.
MR. BLASIER: Now, are you familiar with the procedure used to take head hair exemplars?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Objection. This is beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. BLASIER: And that procedure involves collecting a substantial--a number of hairs from a person from different areas of the head; is it not?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And how many hairs ordinarily are collected for an exemplar?
MS. LEWIS: I have no idea.
MR. BLASIER: Approximately a hundred? Is that normal?
MS. CLARK: Objection, beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. LEWIS: From the Coroner's office I do not know.
MR. BLASIER: How about in the procedures that you use when you collect an exemplar?
MS. LEWIS: Around a hundred, yes.
MR. BLASIER: And the reason for doing that--or is the reason for doing that so that you get a representative sample of hairs from a person's head?
THE COURT: Now we are beyond the scope.
MR. BLASIER: Okay.
(Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: Could we have the photographs that were put in yesterday, specifically exhibit 414?
THE COURT: Mrs. Robertson.
(Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: May we put People's 414 on the elmo?
(Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: Can we zoom in on the large envelope on the left.
MR. BLASIER: Now, Miss Lewis, looking at this photograph, I note that there is the no. 75 at the top of it that is crossed off and the no. 83 is written in with your initials?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: And that is--that is because you started out with a certain numbering system, and not realizing that you had some other items that you wanted to keep in sequence?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And you changed those numbers later?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And the proper procedure to do that is cross out the number but not cross it out so badly that you can't read it, right?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: To write the new number?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Put your initials on this.
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: So you are able to reconstruct later on that that is what you did?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And that is what the old number is and that is what the new number is, no doubt about it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And is that the same procedure that you are taught at LAPD, that Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola had the same kind of training?
MS. CLARK: Objection, that calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BLASIER: That is part of your training at LAPD in the SID unit, that that is the way make--if you are going to change something that is already written on an item, you do it that way?
MS. LEWIS: That is the way I was trained from the police academy.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. Now, I want to ask you about the shirt, the bag that came from the Coroner's office. Is it accurate that the only identifying information on that bag was "Shirt"?
MS. LEWIS: I would have to look at the bag again.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. Do we have--is that on--have you seen a picture of that yesterday?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
(Brief pause.)
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it states "Shirt."
MR. BLASIER: Is there anywhere on that bag any identifying information stating what case it is from?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Now, when you preserve evidence in a container like a bag, you write down information that identifies what case it is connected to, don't you?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: That is standard procedure, isn't it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Is it your understanding that the habit and practice at the Coroner's office is to not write down the identification of what case is involved for a particular container?
MS. CLARK: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BLASIER: In the other Coroner's cases that you have worked on, is that a standard practice, that they will have clothing in a bag and not have any identification as to what case it came from?
MS. LEWIS: On the brown paper bags that the clothing is physically in or initially in, no, it has no identification. On the white mesh bag which contains all the clothing for said--for one victim, yes, it does.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. You would never, though, put a container that is unmarked as to a case inside another container? Isn't it your practice that you want to make sure what case an item goes with so in case it gets separated from the large bag you no where it came from?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. BLASIER: When you put butcher paper down on the table to look at an item, what color is that paper?
MS. LEWIS: In this case it was white.
MR. BLASIER: Sometimes do you use brown paper?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Is it more difficult to see trace evidence with brown paper?
MS. LEWIS: It depends on the trace evidence, yes.
MR. BLASIER: Do you know what color paper the Coroner's office uses when they collect things or if they use paper?
MS. LEWIS: In this case there was white paper. I don't know what their habit is, if it is always white.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the white paper you are talking about, the bindles that are indicated with DR Baden's name on them?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, when you took the shirt out of the bag, it obviously had been stored wet, had it not?
MS. CLARK: Objection, that calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BLASIER: It was moldy, wasn't it?
MS. LEWIS: It had spots of mold on it, yes.
MR. BLASIER: And it had a very strong smell to it, did it not?
MS. LEWIS: Smell is relative. In this case I don't recall any strong smell.
MR. BLASIER: And when--the proper procedure for packaging clothing that may be covered with blood or have a lot of moisture in it is to dry it first, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And the reason for doing that is to prevent such things as mold growing on it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: So is it fair to say that when something has been put in a bag and mold grows on it, that it probably has not been preserved properly?
MS. CLARK: Objection, calls for speculation, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And you have no personal knowledge who took the shirt, who put it in the bag and who might have gotten in and out of the bag at any particular time until it got to you?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: Now, I think you said that you opened those bindles, the white bindles, because they were unusual? Did I hear that correctly?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And they were unusual this sense that you generally don't see items coming from the Coroner's office with bindles in them?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: And Greg Matheson told you to go ahead and open those up?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Did those bindles contain identifying information as to the date they were made?
MS. LEWIS: No.
(Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: Let me show you People's no. 416. And could we zoom in right below where it says "77." Now, this is the bindle that indicates it came from under the shirt or the jacket?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, there is a date 6/22/94, 1430, and I believe that is a G.S., although I'm not sure.
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, is that an indication of the date it was collected and who collected it?
MS. LEWIS: It is an indication of some date. I misspoke. I had forgotten about that date on there.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. And the other bindles have dates and initials on them indicating when DR Baden and Mr. Siglar put them in there?
MS. LEWIS: I don't recall specifically.
MR. BLASIER: Let's look at 422. And can we blow-up the second from the left.
MR. BLASIER: And that is the bindle marked no. 75 indicated from under Ron Goldman's shoes?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And that also has a date and initials on it, doesn't it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it does.
MR. BLASIER: And when you testified that there were no such dates on those, what had you been using to refresh their memory?
MS. LEWIS: I was using my notes where I had just listed what the bindles said, not everybody who handled the bindles.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. So in preparation for your testimony you did not look at these pictures?
MS. LEWIS: No, I did not.
MR. BLASIER: When you looked at them yesterday when you testified, when they were on the elmo and when they were handed to you, did you look at them carefully to see if your testimony was correct?
MS. LEWIS: I looked at them for the question that I was asked to make sure that question was--my answer was correct for that specific question. I don't recall the question in regards to signature--I'm sorry, the date and time on it.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. You don't remember being asked any indication as to when those bindles were made?
MS. LEWIS: No, I don't.
MR. BLASIER: Yesterday did you use the phrase at some point you stopped resealing bags that you were preparing because you had gotten one surprise from the Coroner's office and there might have been others, words to this effect?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And by "Surprise from the Coroner's office," you are referring to the bindles?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Are you referring to the fact that some separate evidence items were stored in the same bags?
MS. LEWIS: Could you rephrase, please?
MR. BLASIER: Is one of the things that was a surprise to you that some items of clothing, separate items of clothing were stored in the same bags?
MS. LEWIS: That they had multiple items of clothing in one bag, that is not a surprise, no.
MR. BLASIER: It is not a surprise to you?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: That is not proper procedure, is it?
MS. LEWIS: I don't know--
MS. CLARK: Objection. Objection. Exceeds the scope of expertise, foundation, and it calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. LEWIS: I don't know the Coroner's office procedure for storing bags. I know Los Angeles SID's.
MR. BLASIER: You would never put two items of clothing in the same bag, would you?
MS. CLARK: Objection, that is irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. LEWIS: If the items were picked up together, then, yes, I would.
MR. BLASIER: You realize that anytime you put two separate items in the same container you essentially are cross--if you find hair and trace evidence on either of those items, you can no longer say which one they came from, can you?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, but if I've got socks laying on top of a pair of pants at the crime scene, there is also cross-contamination has already occurred between the two items, they could then be gathered and put into the same bag.
MR. BLASIER: So if there is cross-contamination, for instance, from a pant leg touching a sock, you are not concerned about preserving the integrity of that sock and whatever trace evidence might be on it and it is okay to mix that up with the rest of the jeans?
MS. CLARK: Objection, that is argumentative.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BLASIER: Mr. Goldman's shoes were both put in the same envelope, weren't they?
MS. LEWIS: I'm sorry?
MR. BLASIER: I'm sorry, in the same bag?
MS. LEWIS: His shoes were put in the same bag as what?
MR. BLASIER: As each other?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Two shoes in one bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Do you, as part of your routine, when you have shoes that might be evidence, keep them separate so that there is no cross-contamination from one shoe to the other?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Have you heard of that being done as a technique in crime labs?
MS. LEWIS: Not if the shoes are found together, no.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the shirt, when you took the shirt out of the bag--let me show you People's 417. Is that what it looked like right after you took it out of the bag?
MS. LEWIS: Do you mean is this the way I laid the shirt out?
MR. BLASIER: No. Was it folded up like that in the bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And in the process of your looking at it, you stretched it out? Look at People's 418.
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And then at some point it was folded back up again and put in a new bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Have you ever used the technique with an items of clothing like that to put paper on the front and the back before it is rolled up so that items of evidence that might be on the top of the shirt don't get put on the bottom of the shirt or moved around?
MS. LEWIS: No, I haven't.
MR. BLASIER: So I take it you didn't use that kind of a technique with this clothing?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: With each of these items you put the evidence in new bags, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And you did not use the bags that the Coroner's used?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: What was the reason for that?
MS. LEWIS: Because the bags from the Coroner's office had--I had received them with multiple items in there and so I wanted to keep them in the fresh bags.
MR. BLASIER: And did you ever check the bags from the Coroner's office to see what kind of debris was in those bags?
MS. LEWIS: When I'm removing the item I do at that time.
MR. BLASIER: How do you do that?
MS. LEWIS: When I'm--the item gets taken out of the bag and then I have a visual inspection, and if I see anything on the--in the bag, I make sure it goes back into the new bag with the item.
MR. BLASIER: So you visually look in the bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: You don't turn it over and shake it out to see what might be there?
MS. LEWIS: If I see something in the bag, then it will be turned over and shaken or--I don't care for the word "Shaken" because I'm not like a salt and pepper shaker shaking something up, but it will be turned over to allow the item to fall out to remain with the clothing.
MR. BLASIER: But you don't do that unless you actually see something in there?
MS. LEWIS: Exactly.
MR. BLASIER: Isn't that a common experience, particularly with paper bags that have creases and seams in the bottom of them, for things to get caught there?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Those you might not be able to see and to get them out, you got to shake them out, right?
MS. LEWIS: Right.
MR. BLASIER: Do you recall whether you did that with any of the bags from the Coroner's office in this case?
MS. LEWIS: No, I didn't.
MR. BLASIER: You don't recall or you didn't do that?
MS. LEWIS: I didn't shake them.
(Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: When you have items--debris or hair or trace evidence come off of an item onto the paper, do you make any effort to preserve that particular trace evidence in a separate bindle so that you can reconstruct at some later time when trace evidence came off of an item?
MS. LEWIS: What do you mean by "When" exactly?
MR. BLASIER: Well, you indicated at least with one of the items that some trace evidence came off and you saw it on the paper, you took the paper and you poured it back in the bag?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, would you agree that there is no way, if someone looked at this later and other trace evidence came off the item, you would have no way of telling the sequence in which things might have come off an item because they weren't preserved in separate bindles?
MS. LEWIS: Exactly.
MR. BLASIER: You had never done that where--when something comes off of it, you put it in a separate bindle so you know when it came off, who was there, what the circumstances were?
MS. LEWIS: Not with Coroner's evidence, no.
MR. BLASIER: With regular--with other evidence you do that?
MS. LEWIS: Some evidence that is gathered in the field, if something falls off, then it is going to get packaged in a coin envelope at that time and it is indicated in my notes where the item was removed from.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. But you don't do that with Coroner's evidence?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: And is that because of--you have no way of vouching for how the evidence is actually collected and preserved by the Coroner's office or it doesn't matter?
MS. LEWIS: I have no way of knowing how it came from the Coroner's office, correct.
MR. BLASIER: So it is not going to make any difference to you to preserve it separately because you can't tell how it was preserved originally?
MS. LEWIS: Exactly.
MR. BLASIER: The hair that you found in the shoe bag, that was in a separate bindle, was it not?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Is there any indication on that bindle as to which shoe it came from?
MS. LEWIS: It didn't state it came from a shoe.
MR. BLASIER: Where did it state it came from?
MS. LEWIS: It didn't state. It was just in a brown paper bag that was in the--in the other bag.
MR. BLASIER: Was there any identifying information at all as to where it came from?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Did you find that unusual?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Were there any markings on it at all?
MS. LEWIS: The bag had "Hair" written on it, but I don't recall if I put "Hair" on it or if it came from the Coroner's office that way.
MR. BLASIER: You would never preserve something that way and just write "Hair" on it and nothing else?
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the one bag had both the pants and the socks in it, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: Was there any indication on the socks as to which one was on the left foot and which one was on the right foot?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Is that something that you would ordinarily record as standard procedure so that you could correlate the socks perhaps to the shoes?
MS. LEWIS: I haven't.
MR. BLASIER: Did you consider putting the socks, one in each separate bag?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: That is because they were already mixed up with the pants, right?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the pants also in the bag that you got, the bag just said "Pants and socks," didn't it?
MS. LEWIS: From the Coroner's office I would have to verify.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. Let me show you People's 423. Does that appear to be the bag, the pants and the socks?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And could we zoom in on the writing, please.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the pant and the socks, you have no idea who wrote that, do you?
MS. LEWIS: No, I don't.
MR. BLASIER: No initials at all about who wrote that?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: Then you have a "Plus" and a "Debris" that appears to be a different kind of ink. Do you have any idea who wrote "Plus debris"?
MS. LEWIS: That is my scribble.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. When did you put that on there?
MS. LEWIS: When I was doing the evidence.
MR. BLASIER: So that wasn't on there when the Coroner's office sent it to you?
MS. LEWIS: No, it was not.
MR. BLASIER: And there is something underneath where you say "Debris" that is scribbled out. Do you have any idea what that is?
MS. LEWIS: I have a guess of what it was.
MR. BLASIER: What is your best estimate?
MS. LEWIS: I believe I was trying to put down about the bindle again.
MR. BLASIER: Okay. So that certainly wasn't on there when you got it from the Coroner's office?
MS. LEWIS: No, it was not.
MR. BLASIER: Now, could we come in a little bit on the lower right.
MR. BLASIER: S.A.B. Is Susan Brockbank, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, she does.
MR. BLASIER: She works at SID?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, she does.
MR. BLASIER: Not at the Coroner's office?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: So would you presume that was put on sometime after you processed it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes, it was.
MR. BLASIER: "C.Y." Is Collin Yamauchi?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: That would have been put on after you processed it?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: So is it accurate to say that the only thing on that bag when it came from the Coroner's office was "Pants, socks."
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And showing you People's 425, the pants, when they came out of the bag, again were all rolled up, weren't they?
MS. LEWIS: I don't know if they were rolled or folded.
MR. BLASIER: There was no paper used to try and keep one area of the pants from touching other areas of the pants and contaminating them?
MS. LEWIS: Exactly.
MR. BLASIER: And you didn't make any effort to do that because what is the use, right?
MS. LEWIS: It is already been contaminated or handled, I should say, not contaminated.
MR. BLASIER: It is already been mixed up so what might now be on the bottom of the pant might now be on the top and vice versa?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Let me show you People's 427. Now, you indicated when you looked at the socks there was no debris on the paper after you--after you set them out, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Correct.
MR. BLASIER: Now, you would agree that in this picture there is debris there?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, this picture was taken at some other time, I assume?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: When was this picture taken?
MS. LEWIS: No knowledge. I could determine it if I looked at the tag, but that is only from what is stated there. I was not present at the time. It appears to be 7/27/94.
MR. BLASIER: So that is sometime after--clearly after you looked at them, a month after you looked at them?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: It is not unusual, is it, for evidence like clothing to have trace evidence fall off of it one time and not another time?
MS. LEWIS: No, it is not unusual.
MR. BLASIER: Do you have any idea whether the debris from the sock in that picture was ever preserved in a separate bindle?
MS. LEWIS: No knowledge.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the dress and the panties were also kept in the same bag, correct?
MS. LEWIS: They were received from the Coroner's office in the same bag, yes.
MR. BLASIER: All kind of mixed up together?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And you put them in separate bags, correct?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Was there any indication on the bag with the--with both the dress and the panties as to what case it was connected with?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: You indicated this morning that there was a slight delay in Mr. Goldman's items being booked?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: What did you mean by that?
MS. LEWIS: The items were received from, according to my record, from Miss Degrandis on June 27th, 1994, and they were physically booked into--the report was made and the items were physically booked into the evidence processing unit, or I'm sorry, evidence control unit, on June 28th.
MR. BLASIER: That is the delay you were referring to?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: And being booked into the evidence processing unit, that is where they bar code it and it is put into the security system there at the property unit at the lab?
MS. LEWIS: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Now, the tag on the box that you were asked to identify that you said was not your writing, do you know whose writing it was?
MS. LEWIS: No.
MR. BLASIER: May I have a minute, your Honor?
THE COURT: Certainly.
(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
MR. BLASIER: That's all I have, your Honor.
THE COURT: Miss Clark.
MS. CLARK: Nothing further.
THE COURT: All right. Miss Lewis, thank you very much. You are excused. All right. Let's take our recess at this point and then we will bring in our next witness. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take our mid-morning recess. Please remember all my admonitions to you. We will see you back here in about fifteen minutes.
(Recess.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Back on the record. All parties are again present. Let's have the jurors, please.
MR. COCHRAN: Judge, while we are waiting can we approach?
(A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. The record should reflect that we have been joined by all the members of our jury panel. And Miss Clark, the People may call their next witness.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor. The People call Susan Brockbank.
Susan Brockbank, called as a witness by the People, was sworn and testified as follows:
THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.
MS. BROCKBANK: I do.
THE CLERK: Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.
MS. BROCKBANK: Susan Brockbank, S-U-S-A-N B-R-O-C-K-B-A-N-K.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Miss Clark.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK
MS. CLARK: Miss Brockbank, can you please tell us what you do.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I'm a criminalist and I work for the city of Los Angeles assigned to the trace analysis unit of the scientific investigation division of the police department.
MS. CLARK: And when did you begin with that job?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I began in 1987 and in the trace analysis unit I've been there for about five years. I started there in 1990.
MS. CLARK: Now, where did you begin initially when you went to SID?
MS. BROCKBANK: Initially I worked in the toxicology unit. I worked there for about a year and a half. That is the unit of the lab that analyzes things like urine and blood for drugs. And then I moved onto the narcotics analysis unit, which is the unit of the lab that analyzes bulk narcotics to identify that they are indeed narcotics and not powdered sugar or something like that. I worked there for about a year and then I moved on to the trace unit which is where I'm currently at, and I have been there, like I say, five, five and a half years.
MS. CLARK: Now, with respect to hair and trace, can you tell us what kind of training you've had?
MS. BROCKBANK: Should I start with my educational background?
MS. CLARK: Yes.
MS. BROCKBANK: I have a bachelor of science degree in microbiology with a minor in chemistry that is from California State University at Long Beach. And after graduating college I began--I first volunteered at the L.A. County Sheriff's crime lab. Later I worked as a student professional worker for the LAPD crime lab. Went back to the sheriff's crime lab as a laboratory technician. Came back to LAPD as a criminalist. That was in 1987. Once I became a criminalist, in the trace analysis unit specifically, I began going through on-the-job training in the areas of trace evidence. The trace unit analyzes things like hairs and fibers, shoeprints, tool marks, tire tracks, paint, glass, basically any type of physical evidence that may be found at a crime scene. The trace unit is the unit that analyzes those things. And I went through on-the-job training, like I said, in all those various areas of evidence analysis. Also in the area of crime scene investigation, part of my job includes going to crime scenes and actually collecting, preserving, identifying physical evidence. I also attended two courses in forensic microscopy.
MS. CLARK: What is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Use of the microscope basically for doing forensic work, things like, you know, working on hairs and fibers or anything that requires a microscope. Those classes were taught by the Macrone Research Institute of Chicago, and I also attended a class in hair analysis which was taught by James Bailey of the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department crime lab. And I think that about does it.
MS. CLARK: So you have been working in the hair and trace unit for five years then?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And during that five years were you--what portion of that time was devoted actually to the examination of hairs or fibers?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I didn't actually begin performing analysis on case work until about a year and a half into my--my time in the trace unit. During that time I was going through these training classes and on-the-job training, so I began doing case work about a year and a half in, so that would be for the last four years roughly I've been doing case work in hair and fiber analysis.
MS. CLARK: Now, how many times have you actually qualified as an expert am court on hair and trace analysis?
MS. BROCKBANK: I think only about five times.
MS. CLARK: Now, do you recall when you were assigned to do the hair and trace work on this particular case?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes. I first was assigned to do work on this case on June 21st of 1994.
MS. CLARK: Now, the duties that you performed in this case, were they primarily the collection of the hair and fiber from the items of evidence found at the crime scenes?
MS. BROCKBANK: Primarily, yes.
MS. CLARK: And the examination with respect to comparison of hairs and fibers, was that done by Mr. Deedrick, the unit chief at the FBI for hair and trace?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: On June 21st, if you can please tell us, was that your first contact with the evidence in this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: What did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: On June 21st I went to our evidence control unit, which is basically a secured storage facility for a lot of property that is seized and booked in various crimes throughout the city. I went to the evidence control unit and checked out two large boxes, each of these boxes containing evidence that I was interested in looking at.
MS. CLARK: Where were they?
MS. BROCKBANK: In the evidence control unit.
MS. CLARK: And what is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Like I said, it is like a--it is a secured storage facility. When we, quote-unquote, book evidence, the evidence is actually physically taken to this room and it is kind of adjacent to the laboratory, and in this large room they just have racks and different things that they will store the boxes of evidence on.
MS. CLARK: Do they have a freezer?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you went to the evidence control unit on June the 21st, you recovered, you said, two boxes?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Where were they in the evidence control unit?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, one was in their freezer and the other one was being held shelf storage.
MS. CLARK: And did you recover both of them?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Where did you take them?
MS. BROCKBANK: I took them into the trace analysis unit which is where I work.
MS. CLARK: Now, were the victim's hair samples or clothing contained in either of those boxes?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, they were not.
MS. CLARK: Was a hair sample collected from the Defendant kept in any of those boxes?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, it was not.
MS. CLARK: In fact, had a hair sample even been collected from the Defendant as of June the 21st, 1994?
MS. BROCKBANK: Not to my knowledge.
MS. CLARK: Did you collect that hair sample from the Defendant?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Personally?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And when did you do that?
MS. BROCKBANK: That was on July 12th of 1994.
MS. CLARK: Now, which box did you begin with?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe I began with box no. 1, what I designated as box no. 1. The boxes don't have big numbers on them.
MS. CLARK: Okay. With respect to the examination of the boxes, where did you perform that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, in the trace analysis lab we have basically lab benches going all around the perimeter of the lab and then in the center there is a large examination table. I performed most of my analysis on that large examination table in the center of the room.
MS. CLARK: So is that in--do you have a separate part of the lab for hair and trace?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes.
MS. CLARK: That is a room that is just devoted to hair and trace analysis?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, yes, it is the trace analysis lab.
MS. CLARK: Now, before you began to examine box no. 1, was there some preparation you made to clear the work area?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I washed down the lab bench with a dilute bleach solution just to clean the lab bench, and then I cover the lab bench with white butcher paper just to cover the area, and then I opened the first box and inventoried the items in that box. When I decided I was going to actually examine one of those items, I laid down another piece of white paper and used that as a clean working surface to examine each individual item. Between items that I examined I changed that paper, put down a new piece of paper.
MS. CLARK: That is as a matter of routine, you always do that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And you did that in this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Do you specifically recall having done that in this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: So after you washed down the table with dilute bleach and put down the butcher paper--first of all, can you tell me this: Do you wear a lab coat when do you your examinations and collection?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: Always?
MS. BROCKBANK: Always.
MS. CLARK: And what color is it?
MS. BROCKBANK: It is white.
MS. CLARK: And do you wear gloves when you do the examination of items of evidence for hair and trace?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: What kind?
MS. BROCKBANK: Latex gloves.
MS. CLARK: And did you do so in this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: So after having gowned up, got your gloves on and the table is bleached and there is paper down, what did do you with box no. 1?
MS. BROCKBANK: I opened it just by cutting along the tape with a razor blade. The box was taped shut and there was a seal across the top signed by Dennis Fung. I opened the box and removed the various items that were in it. There were several different items in each of those boxes, and I--
MS. CLARK: One second, Susan. Excuse me, Miss Brockbank. Your Honor, we have a photograph I would like it to be marked People's 436.
THE COURT: All right. People's 436 appears to be a photograph of a box with multiple seals.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
(Peo's 436 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Ma'am, do you recognize what is being shown in this photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Yes, it is a box. It is a little blurry in my picture. I don't know if you can focus it better. I believe that is box no. 1.
MS. CLARK: Is that what the box looked like, box no. 1?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, except for all of the evidence tape across the top. Each time the box was closed by someone, a new piece of--it was re-taped and then an evidence seal was placed across the top. When I initially saw it, there was just one seal across the top, not several like you see there.
MS. CLARK: And when you refer to "Seal," are you talking about that red tape?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes, the red tape or LAPD evidence seals and those are placed are--when someone opens the box, does something with the evidence and then recloses the box and then it is actually taped shut with the brown tape that you see kind of going around the circumference of the box, there is brown tape that is about two inches wide and we wrap the boxes in both directions just to secure that box before placing that evidence tape over the top.
MS. CLARK: And was it taped in that fashion with respect to--with respect to the brown tape and one of the evidence seals, was it taped in that fashion when you found it on June the 21st?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was.
THE COURT: Miss Clark, this is People's 437.
MS. CLARK: Oh, thank.
THE COURT: Thank you.
(Peo's 437 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Was there some kind of a list that tells you, without opening the box, what it should contain?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Actually, there is a label I guess--is it better if I point to this large one? The label on the end that is down near the bottom of the screen, there is a little brown label and in the upper right corner of that brown label you see a little bar code. A lot of our evidence is tracked based on bar code, so that is why you will see a bar code on a lot of the packages. But on that brown label there is a listing of the item numbers and those are LAPD items numbers for each piece of evidence that is contained in that bag.
MS. CLARK: We have a close-up of that bag I'm going to show you, Miss Brockbank, and ask that it be marked 437-A.
THE COURT: 437-A.
(Peo's 437-A for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Do you recognize what is shown in this photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And what is it?
MS. BROCKBANK: That is a close-up of that evidence tag that is on that box and here you can see the--where it--on the tag it says "Describe contents briefly," you see a listing and it says "Item numbers" and a listing of each of the item numbers that are in that box.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, with respect to the items that are listed to be in that box, which, if any, item listed in that box there contained items of hair or trace?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, let's see. I only examined two items in that box; item no. 19 and I believe 58. Those were the two items that were hair or fiber evidence.
MS. CLARK: And item no. 19, what was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, item no. 19 was a small coin envelope which contained a paper bindle which is basically a piece of paper tri-folded three ways to contain evidence on the inside and that paper bindle had some hairs in it.
MS. CLARK: Do you see an item no. 19 on the board that has been marked as People's--
THE COURT: 436.
MS. CLARK: 436, thank you.
MS. CLARK: --on People's 436?
MS. BROCKBANK: May I get up?
MS. CLARK: Yes.
MS. BROCKBANK: (Witness complies.) What was your question again, I'm sorry?
MS. CLARK: Do you see item no. 19 on the board marked as People's 436?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do. It is right here in the upper right-hand corner, (Indicating). That is a coin envelope here that you see in the photograph and that is the white paper bindle that was inside that coin envelope.
MS. CLARK: All right. You can resume your seat.
MS. BROCKBANK: (Witness complies.).
MS. CLARK: And we will show it to you on the monitor for everybody's comfort. Your Honor, I don't know if you want me to mark these individually. They are already depicted on the board.
THE COURT: Which one is it on the board? Can you tell me?
MS. CLARK: It is item no. 19.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: All right. Can you tell us if you recognize what is shown in this photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And that is?
MS. BROCKBANK: The coin envelope and white paper bindle that I examined.
MS. CLARK: And was the--you see the writing on it there, no. 19, trace removed from no. 9 and a signature?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: Do you recognize the signature?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: Whose signature is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: That is Dennis Fung, F-U-N-G.
MS. CLARK: And the coin envelope, was it sealed when you recovered it from the box that was marked as no. 1?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was sealed with a piece of tape.
MS. CLARK: And the no. 9 that is referred to, no. 19, trace removed from no. 9, do you know what no. 9 is?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. 9 is a glove.
MS. CLARK: Recovered from?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I believe that was the glove recovered from Rockingham.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, the other items that were contained in the box with this coin envelope, you had the numbers already shown to you on the screen. Can you tell us, if you recall from memory, what item number--what items of evidence those numbers went to?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, actually I don't. If I could refer to my notes?
MS. CLARK: You may.
MS. BROCKBANK: (Witness complies.) Did you just want the list of each of those item numbers or what--
MS. CLARK: If you could just tell us briefly what each of those items are. No. 10?
MS. BROCKBANK: Just a second.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, item no. 10 was listed on the property report as a blue plastic bag.
MS. CLARK: And 15?
MS. BROCKBANK: 15 was airline ticket receipt.
MS. CLARK: And 16?
MS. BROCKBANK: 16 was a baggage tag.
MS. CLARK: And 18?
MS. BROCKBANK: 18 was shoes.
MS. CLARK: Reeboks?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I believe so. I examined these at one point in time.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And 35?
MS. BROCKBANK: 35 were some keys.
MS. CLARK: 36?
MS. BROCKBANK: A pager.
MS. CLARK: 40?
MS. BROCKBANK: A ring.
MS. CLARK: And 46?
MS. BROCKBANK: A menu.
MS. CLARK: And were each of those in separate bags, each of those items?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: And were they sealed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, after you recovered item 19--
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. BROCKBANK: Actually each of those items were in envelopes, I'm sorry; not bags.
MS. CLARK: In what, coin envelope or manila envelopes?
MS. BROCKBANK: I described them as coin envelopes or actually just small yellow envelopes.
MS. CLARK: Each of the items you have just read off to us?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And sealed individually?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, with respect to item 19, you said that you recovered a bindle from that envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And do you see that bindle depicted on the board marked People's 436?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes.
MS. CLARK: I'm going to show it to you on the monitor because I see you straining.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And where is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: The bindle?
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh.
MS. BROCKBANK: It is in the upper right-hand corner of the--of the monitor. It is the white thing that is kind of folded. You can see the "19" and I think it is "D.F." On it.
MS. CLARK: For Dennis Fung?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. So what did you do with that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I took it over to our stereomicroscope, which is a low power microscope, which is on the lab bench, one of the lab benches around the periphery of our lab--not the large one in the middle, but one on the side--and on that lab bench under the microscope I had laid down some white paper. I opened the bindle and examined the hairs that were inside. If I could just look at my notes for just a second?
MS. CLARK: Sure.
MS. BROCKBANK: (Witness complies.) And then I mounted those hairs on a microscope slide with some water. Basically what that involves is just taking a clean microscope slide, just a piece of glass about so big, (Indicating), about one-inch-by-three-inches, put a little dab of water on it to secure the hairs. Placed the hairs on. Again I had gloves on my hands when I did this. And placed the hairs on the slide using my hands, and then covered that with a coverslip, which basically is another piece of very thin glass, and that allows me to examine it on the microscope. I take that over to a microscope, which will magnify things on the order of 100 to 400 times, and I examined those hairs on that microscope.
MS. CLARK: Now, at the time that you did this, were there any other items of hair or trace pertaining to this case in the vicinity?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, there were not.
MS. CLARK: Were there any items of hair or trace at all around these--around the coin envelope and the bindle marked as no. 19?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, there were not.
MS. CLARK: Now, with respect to the mounting in water, is that something that is favored? Is that a good idea, to mount hair or fibers on water?
MS. BROCKBANK: Not really.
MS. CLARK: And why is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: For--for a microscopic examination of hairs water is a poorer mounting medium because of what's called a refractive index which is what allows you to see through something. Basically there is a number assigned to different objects. Water has a refractive index of around 1.25. It is a number--but what happens is hair, when you are looking at that under a microscope, you need to mount it in a refractive index that is close to the refractive index of hair, and water is very far from a hair, so when you examine it under the microscope you don't get to see all of the really important details of the hair that help you to get a real good identification of that hair.
MS. CLARK: Does it have any impact on your ability to see accurately the color of the hair you are looking at?
MS. BROCKBANK: To some degree it can affect that. Basically what you get is kind of a--when you look through the microscope, kind of a black border around everything, so it obscures a little bit of everything that you see.
MS. CLARK: So after you examined the hair from no. 19 under the microscope in that water mount on the slide, what did you do next?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I just made some notations on my note sheet and then I unmounted the hairs, basically the reverse of mounting them. I took that coverslip off, removed the hairs from the slide, put them back into the paper bindle, folded that up, put it back into the coin envelope and folded the flap of the coin envelope so that it was closed, and that was the end of my examination at that point.
MS. CLARK: So it went back into your original bindle, did it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And back into the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you seal the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Not at that time, no.
MS. CLARK: How did you close it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Actually never.
MS. CLARK: How did you make sure that the hair didn't fall out?
MS. BROCKBANK: Just by folding the bindle. Like I say it is a tri-fold thing. I mean, if you have a piece of paper like this, you basically fold it three times and your hairs first will be placed in the center of that bindle, so you fold the edges over and the hairs are now in the center of those pieces of paper, and then you fold these other two edges over and then the hair is secured on the inside of that bindle.
MS. CLARK: Is one end tucked into the other?
MS. BROCKBANK: Some people do that and some don't.
MS. CLARK: What do you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: I usually do.
MS. CLARK: And then that item is put into a coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And is the coin envelope closed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was closed by folding over the top flap.
MS. CLARK: Now, after you got done, after you did that, what did do you with the slide that you had the water on?
MS. BROCKBANK: I discarded that slide.
MS. CLARK: Did you notice anything unusual about the water in which the hair had been resting on the slide?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes. Actually the water had kind of a reddish tinge to it because all of those hairs appeared to be encrusted with blood when I was examining them. There was a lot of blood on them.
MS. CLARK: After that examination, did you look at the butcher paper on which you had done your exam of item 19?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: For what purpose?
MS. BROCKBANK: Just to make sure that nothing had escaped the bindle when I was examining it, and there was nothing on the butcher paper.
MS. CLARK: And did you look at your gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And for what purpose did you do that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Basically the same reason. I checked my gloves periodically whenever I do an exam just to make sure that I don't get any hairs or fibers on them adhering to my gloves rather than on the slide or in the bindles that I'm working with.
MS. CLARK: And did you do that in this case as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And was there any hair or trace on your gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And this whole examination that you conducted of item 19, was that done with clean gloves on the clean butcher paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: After you completed your examination, you examined the paper and the--and your gloves, what did you do next?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, well, I returned that coin envelope to the box and then I began examining some other items.
MS. CLARK: Did you change the paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: That is the butcher paper that you examine items on?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: And what about your gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: I also changed my gloves.
MS. CLARK: Now, did you look at box no. 2?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And--
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: People's 438, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. 438.
(Peo's 438 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 438, do you recognize what is being shown there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, it is a box. I believe it is box no. 2, but again, that photograph is kind of blurry. I can't really read the tag.
MS. CLARK: If we show you the tag close-up would that help?
MS. BROCKBANK: That would help, yes.
MS. CLARK: People's 438-A.
THE COURT: 438-A.
(Peo's 438-A for id = photograph)
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That is the tag on the object that I had designated as box no. 2.
MS. CLARK: Now, that shows that there were--the same as the other tag, that there is a description area for the contents of the box?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: And it is just they are described by item number?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes.
MS. CLARK: Number 9--numbers 1 through 9--let me just single out some of the items in it so that we don't have to do a laundry list.
MS. BROCKBANK: Okay.
MS. CLARK: Item no. 9 is what?
MS. BROCKBANK: Item no. 9 was a glove.
MS. CLARK: And that was the Rockingham glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Item no. 13?
MS. BROCKBANK: Item no. 13 were some socks.
MS. CLARK: The socks found in the Defendant's bedroom?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Item no. 33?
MS. BROCKBANK: Item no. 33 was a piece of carpeting that was removed from a Bronco.
MS. CLARK: Was that the piece of carpet taken from the floor of the Defendant's Bronco?
MR. BLASIER: Objection, leading, no foundation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: Item no. 33, do you know what the source was, the origin of that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I understand that it was removed from Mr. Simpson's Bronco.
MR. BLASIER: Objection, move to strike.
THE COURT: Sustained. The answer is stricken.
MS. CLARK: Have you seen the item?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I have.
MS. CLARK: Did you examine the item at some point?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And you know it to be?
MS. BROCKBANK: A piece of carpeting.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And item no. 27?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, item no. 27 is a hat.
MS. CLARK: And do you know where that came from?
MR. BLASIER: Objection, no foundation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: Do you recall the appearance of that cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes. It was kind of a cap with a little brim on it. I think it was like brown, maybe like a checkered design.
MS. CLARK: All right. Photograph, your Honor, People's no. 439.
THE COURT: 439.
(Peo's 439 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 439, can you tell us if you recognize in this photograph the cap you were describing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That is the cap, item no. 27, that I examined.
MS. CLARK: And with respect to the piece of carpet that you saw, item no. 33, do you recognize anything in this photograph as consistent with a piece of carpet that you saw and recognize as item no. 33?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the piece of carpet underneath that hat was item no. 33 that I examined.
MS. CLARK: Second photograph, People's no. 440.
(Peo's 440 for id = photograph)
MS. BROCKBANK: Excuse me.
MS. CLARK: Okay. This is no. 33?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Do you see an area on this carpet that you recognize as like the one--the piece that you saw in the box no. 2?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the rubber mat area that you see here, which is part of that--that piece of carpeting, that was--item 33 had that rubber mat and also a stained area which I think you can see in the upper left corner of this photograph just vaguely, there was a stained area there that appeared to be blood stain.
MS. CLARK: Is that--
MR. BLASIER: Objection, no foundation for that.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. CLARK: Do you see where the arrow is pointing, Miss Brockbank?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Is that the area that you just referred to that appeared bloody to you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: I'm going to print this, your Honor, and ask that it be People's 440-A.
THE COURT: Yes.
(Peo's 440-A for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: All right. Then item no. 38 was also in box no. 2?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: 38 was also a--it was a knit hat.
MS. CLARK: Do you recall what color?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe it was black, dark blue, black. I can't really remember.
MS. CLARK: If I show you a photograph will that help you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah.
MS. CLARK: People's 441, your Honor.
THE COURT: 441.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Photo of a blue hat, blue watch cap or dark-color watch cap.
(Peo's 441 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: It is darker now. Do you recognize that?
MR. BLASIER: Object to the Prosecutor testifying.
THE COURT: It is a dark-color watch cap.
MS. CLARK: Do you recognize that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. It appears to be the watch cap.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Item no. 38 that you refer to?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, going back to the label on that box, People's 438, now, those items that we have just itemized; 9, 13, 27, 33, 38--excuse me, one more--item no. 37, was that also in the box?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: And what is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: That is another glove.
MS. CLARK: If you can tell us, ma'am, how those--were all of those items individually packaged?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: In--
MS. BROCKBANK: Each of those items were individually packaged in paper bags which had been folded over and taped closed.
MS. CLARK: With respect to the piece of carpeting that we have referred to as no. 33 that you just pointed out to us in a photograph, how was that packaged?
MS. BROCKBANK: That item was wrapped in white paper and the paper was sealed with that--that two-inch tape that I referred to earlier, that brown tape.
MS. CLARK: Was--was that carpet piece completely covered?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I didn't see any exposed areas.
MS. CLARK: And did the tape completely seal it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, it--it--yeah, it sealed the open edges.
MS. CLARK: So there was no openings in the container, the paper that was wrapping the item no. 33 carpet?
MS. BROCKBANK: None that I noticed.
MS. CLARK: Now, the other items that are listed in the--as being in that box, were any of those items either hair or fiber items?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, not that I am aware of.
MS. CLARK: Well, you inventoried the box, did you not?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did. I didn't open every single item. I just inventoried the packages--
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: --that were in that box.
MS. CLARK: And with respect to the--then everything in the box was individually wrapped; is that correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: In what?
MS. BROCKBANK: Some of the items were in coin envelopes. The items mentioned before were, you know, item 33 was wrapped. The other items were in brown paper bats and the rest of the items were in coin envelopes which were also taped closed.
MS. CLARK: So everything was individually wrapped and sealed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: With respect to the gloves, item 9, item--let me ask you this: This box no. 2, did you get this from shelf storage or from the freezer?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, box no. 2 was frozen stored, so it was in the freezer.
MS. CLARK: So the items that you recovered from that box, were they frozen?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: And the gloves, item 9 and item 37, were they frozen?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: You examined them on June 21st, did you not?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: When you first examined them, were they frozen?
MS. BROCKBANK: They had been frozen.
MS. CLARK: And dried?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. They were dry.
MR. BLASIER: Your Honor, I'm going to object, lack of foundation, vague as to time.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. CLARK: Was there anything else in this box other than the items--the item numbers that are shown here?
MS. BROCKBANK: That are listed on that label?
MS. CLARK: Right.
MS. BROCKBANK: No. Those are the only items that were in that box.
MS. CLARK: Now, was there a box within that box?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what was that marked, if you recall?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I believe it was marked "Red stains."
MS. CLARK: Was it sealed?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't believe it was.
MS. CLARK: Was it closed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I believe was just folded over at the top.
MS. CLARK: And what was inside it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Several coin envelopes.
MS. CLARK: And marked as containing?
MS. BROCKBANK: I didn't make any notation of specifically what they were containing, but they were individual coin envelopes and they were all individually sealed and numbered.
MS. CLARK: Were those blood swatches in those coin envelopes?
MR. BLASIER: Objection, objection, no foundation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: Do you know what was inside the coin envelopes?
MR. BLASIER: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I referred to a property report to look and see what item listed on that property report corresponded to the numbers that I saw, and they were listed as red stains.
MS. CLARK: In the property report?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe it was red stains.
MS. CLARK: Are you sure?
MS. BROCKBANK: Or cloth swatches, I'm sorry. Can I look to see what I wrote?
MS. CLARK: Please.
MS. BROCKBANK: (Witness complies.) Umm, I wrote on my notes just "Red stains," but I don't know exactly how they were listed in the property report, if they were red stains or cloth swatches.
MS. CLARK: Did you--did you do--did you make an effort to look at the property report at the time that you had contact with this box on the 21st to verify what was in those coin envelopes?
MS. BROCKBANK: Not on that day, no.
MS. CLARK: At some subsequent time did you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Do you currently recall what you read in the property report?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Would it refresh your memory if you saw the property report.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I'm going to show the witness--
MR. BLASIER: Excuse me, your Honor.
THE COURT: Yes. What item?
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry--
THE COURT: What item?
MS. CLARK: With respect to--
THE COURT: What are you showing her?
MS. CLARK: I'm showing her property reports, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: For items 1 through 8 and then items 11 through 14 and then items 20 through 34, 37 to 39, 41 to 45, 47 to 52, 54 to 57.
MS. CLARK: Does that refresh your memory?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what is--what is the description of what was contained in the coin envelopes that you used to conduct the inventory?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the description in the property report is "Cloth watch or cloth swatches used to"--
MR. BLASIER: I'm sorry.
MS. BROCKBANK: --"Used to transfer red stain."
MS. CLARK: And those were all sealed up in their own coin envelope in that box marked "Red stains"?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MR. BLASIER: Excuse me, your Honor. May I look at those again?
THE COURT: Sure.
(Brief pause.)
MS. CLARK: The other items that were not cloth swatches, were any of those hair or trace or fiber items?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, they were not.
MS. CLARK: So there was--do you recall seeing a stick?
MS. BROCKBANK: Again, all I saw was the outer packaging. I didn't know at that time what was in those packages. I only found out by checking the property report and seeing "Stick."
MS. CLARK: Okay. All right. Now, the plaid cap, the picture of that you saw on the Bronco, and the blue knit cap, were those individually packaged and sealed when you contacted them in the box?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: Were there any hair samples of either victims Ron Goldman or Nicole Brown or the Defendant in that box?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, there was not.
MS. CLARK: Now, when I say "Hair sample," are you familiar with the collection--the manner of collection of hair samples from victims of the homicide at the Coroner's office?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And are those samples--are samples taken from victims of homicides and packaged by the Coroner's office and sent to you for examination on a routine basis?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they are.
MS. CLARK: And those samples were not in this box?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, they were not.
MS. CLARK: And nor was the Defendant's, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Now, the item of carpet, the no. 33 that you referred to, and you identified in the Bronco, did you touch that item on June 21st?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the touch--I touched it just in the course of inventorying what was in that box. It is a rather large item and I moved it around a little bit to get to some of the other items that were in the box, but I didn't actually take it out of the box.
MS. CLARK: Did you open it or tear the paper covering it in any manner?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, not on that day.
MS. CLARK: All right. After doing the inventory of the box, did you assure yourself that it did contain what it was listed to contain on that tag?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do next?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I believe I began by examining the cap, item no. 27, and--
MS. CLARK: Before beginning did you take any precautions or make any preparations?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Again I covered lab bench. I put out a clean piece of white paper and then I removed the item 27 from the box, which was a paper bag, which was taped, you know, folded over and taped, opened the bag over that white paper, and removed from the bag that brown cap.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Were you wearing clean gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I was.
MS. CLARK: Now, at the time that you begin that kind of examination, what is your purpose? Why are you examining that item of evidence?
MS. BROCKBANK: I was asked to examine these items and remove any trace evidence, things like hairs and fibers or other debris that were on any of these items.
MS. CLARK: And in order to collect hair and fibers from a given item, do you have some kind of container that you always use?
MS. BROCKBANK: I use a paper bindle, so I have basically a white pad of paper that I use, I tear off sheet and before I started I kind of pre-folded some, so that I had bindles all ready to go, and those were set aside, and so, umm, I took one of those bindles, had it out on the lab bench when I was examining the item.
MS. CLARK: And the first item that you examined was the cap, item no. 27?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
(Brief pause.)
MS. CLARK: People's 439.
MS. CLARK: And that is the cap that you--that was the first item that you examined in this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, after item 19, yes.
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry, yes. Item 19 was--when you examined that item, that had already been removed from a piece of evidence, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right, that's correct.
MS. CLARK: So is this the first piece of evidence item that you yourself examined in this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: For the sake of collecting trace evidence off of, yes.
MS. CLARK: Yes, I'm sorry. Thank you. And what is the method that you used to collect hair or fibers from this item?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, basically it is picking--just using my hand, sometimes tweezers if my hands just don't quite have the dexterity I need, and picking off the hairs and fibers that I see. When I'm dealing with garments, things like hats, clothing, I will actually kind of physically roll the item and look very carefully across the top surface and see hairs or fibers that are kind of protruding, pick those off and place them into the paper bindle. And when I'm done picking everything that I can see, then I will just gently kind of shake and scrape that item over that white piece of paper. If anything falls off, then I also add that to the bindle.
MS. CLARK: And did you--the bag--excuse me, the cap, when you first retrieved it from the box, you said it was contained in a bag that was taped shut?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Before actually examined the cap, what, if any, did you do with that bag that it was in? Did you look inside it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, as I'm removing the cap from the bag, I looked inside to see if there are any loose hairs or fibers in the bag as well. Sometimes hairs or fibers will fall off of an item and remain in the bag.
MS. CLARK: And did you do that in this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did you see any items of hair or fiber or trace remaining in the bag when you removed the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I don't believe I did.
MS. CLARK: After you collected the fiber and hair from the cap in the manner you've described, into the bindle, what did you do next?
MS. BROCKBANK: When I was done with my examination I replaced the cap into its paper bag and then I basically fold the white examination paper that I'm--that I'm working on, I will fold it and tap the side so any loose fibers or hairs that may be there will kind of fall in based on kind of like a funnel effect. Tap the side and gravity helps and the things fall down into that crease and I crease it the opposite way so that I get everything in that very localized area on that white piece of paper and take those items and place them in the bindle.
MS. CLARK: You literally pick up whatever debris has fallen into the funnel created by the crease?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: You put that into the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right. Make sure there is nothing else remaining on that white piece of paper, and the bindle is placed into a coin envelope. I mark the bindle with some identifying information. I mark the coin envelope with some identifying information, place the bindle into the coin envelope. I fold over the top flap and then I remove the white piece of paper, discard it along with my gloves, and go on to the next item.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Before you mark on the bindle, do you fold it up?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Before folding it up do you check your gloves to see if there is any remaining hair or trace remaining on them?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Do you check the paper that the cap had been on and the bindle had been on before you fold up the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Again for hair and trace that may have strayed off?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: After folding up the bindle, do you recall what you marked on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, not specifically, but probably something like, you know, "Hairs and fibers removed from cap, item 27," my initials, the date, the DR number.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: If I show you a photograph, would it sharpen up your memory a little?
MS. BROCKBANK: Sure, it would.
MS. CLARK: Okay. This is the item no. 111 that is already on the board marked People's 436, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
(Brief pause.)
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, this is--shows the back of that coin envelope and then the bindle, which is a little difficult to read.
MS. CLARK: Can we zoom in?
MS. CLARK: Okay. The bindle is where in this photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: It is in the lower right-hand corner just above the ruler, that white kind of square piece of paper with a lot of writing on it.
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh, and the coin envelope next to it, that is what you put it into?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what is that white envelope doing there?
MS. BROCKBANK: The white envelope is an analyzed evidence envelope that I then place that coin envelope into.
MS. CLARK: We are going to zoom in. All right. Okay. The coin envelope is now centered.
MS. CLARK: Do you recognize that handwriting?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That is my writing.
MS. CLARK: And what does it say?
MS. BROCKBANK: It says "Trace evidence removed from cap, item no. 27, by S.A. Brockbank, E9110 on 6/21/94."
MS. CLARK: S.A. Brockbank, that is you?
MS. BROCKBANK: That is me.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, moving over to the bindle, do you recognize that writing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Again that is my writing.
MS. CLARK: "Removed from cap item no. 27 by S.A.B.," that is all what you wrote?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And on June the 21st, `94, as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. There is a "Q4" and writing on the lower left-hand corner of that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, there is.
MS. CLARK: Whose is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, that is writing placed on there by Doug Deedrick and his initials are below that.
MS. CLARK: Now, there is a number on that, 94-0817431?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: That is the DR number of this case.
MS. CLARK: And the item no. 111?
MS. BROCKBANK: That is the item number that--that these hairs and fibers were later booked as by me.
MS. CLARK: So you take an evidence item from a crime scene, for example, in this case, the cap, okay, item no. 27. When you remove hair and fiber you give that hair and fiber that you recovered from that piece of evidence a new number?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: And in this case it was 111?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. After you repackaged--after you packaged this actually into the bindle and into the coin envelope, where did you put the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the coin envelope then went into that larger analyzed evidence envelope that you see and then that was set aside on my work bench while I went to the next item.
MS. CLARK: And what did do you with the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the cap had already been replaced into its paper bag, which was folded over and taped closed, and I returned that to the box.
MS. CLARK: Which was the item that you next looked at?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the next item was the knit cap, item no. 38.
MS. CLARK: Before you looked at it, did you take any precautions to make sure the area was clean from anything that you might possibly have missed after creasing, folding and everything else?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah. I--well, I discarded that white piece of paper that I was working on, changed my gloves, placed down a new white piece of paper and put on new gloves before I looked at the next item.
MS. CLARK: And the next item, item no. 38, that was the blue knit cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what manner was it packaged in when you first saw it?
MS. BROCKBANK: It was packaged in a paper bag which had been folded over and taped closed.
MS. CLARK: And after you removed--you removed it from the bag, I take it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do next?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, similar to how I examined the first cap, I removed the--the knit cap from the bag, placed it on my white piece of paper, again rolling it and looking, you know, very carefully over every inch of the hat, I removed hairs and fibers from the exterior of the hat, placed those into a paper bindle. And then I turned the cap inside out and I removed, you know, using the same process, removed hairs and fibers from the inside of the cap. I placed those in a separate paper bindle, marked the paper bindle from the inside, "Hairs and fibers removed from inside of cap," marked the paper bindle from the outside, "Hairs and fibers removed from outside of cap."
MS. CLARK: Now, you started with the outside of the cap then?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Before you even looked at the outside of the cap did you look into the bag that had contained the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Did you see any hair and trace inside the bag that held the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I don't believe I did.
MS. CLARK: After you--you created the bindle for the--let me ask you this: You recovered hair and fiber from the exterior of the cap by picking?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then did you scrape it with your hand gently?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, not initially, not until I had already looked on the inside of the cap also. I didn't want to disturb any--anything that might be loose on the inside of the cap, so I removed everything I could by picking first from both inside and outside and then I went back and just gently kind of scraped and, you know, saw if anything came off.
MS. CLARK: So when you first looked at the exterior and the interior, you did not shake or scrape the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: After you picked off whatever you could see from the exterior of the cap, you put that into a bindle, did you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you change paper or gloves before going on to the interior?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And why not?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I was still examining the same item. There was really no reason to change gloves. Nothing that I saw.
MS. CLARK: Did you make any effort to examine the paper or your gloves after you picked off the exterior trace of hair?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. There was nothing remaining on the paper and nothing remaining on my gloves.
MS. CLARK: Did you fold up the bindle containing the exterior hair or trace before you moved on to the interior?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes. That bindle was folded up and placed into a coin envelope, kind of set aside while I looked at the other--the inside of the cap.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And then after you looked at the inside of the cap, did you examine the paper and your gloves for any remaining hair or trace that might not have been collected into the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you see any?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And then did you fold up the interior bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, when I had it inside out, I actually did do the little scraping. There is no sense in turning it inside out, you know, twice, so I just did that and placed that in the bindle, then I folded up the bindle.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: Then I turned the cap right outside and kind of gently scraped and shook the outside.
MS. CLARK: So did you create a third bindle for that?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: What did you do with the hair and trace that came off when you did the last scraping of the outside?
MS. BROCKBANK: Put that back in the bindle marked "Exterior."
MS. CLARK: And after--okay. So you picked off the exterior, then you turned it inside south and picked off the interior?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then you scraped the interior?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: After you scraped the interior and completed putting everything into that bindle, you examined the paper and your gloves for hair and trace?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And there was none?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: Then you went back and scraped the exterior?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And that hair and trace went into the exterior bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. After that, did you examine the paper and your gloves for any hair or trace?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Was there any?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And then what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, then the cap was--well, I kind of forgot, I--I always initial the evidence that I examine, so on item 27, before replacing the cap into the bag, I put my initials on--usually I try and mark on the tag of the item, so I marked that cap, but then on 38 there is a tag on the inside which I marked with my initials, then I replaced it into the bag that it came from, fold it over and tape it closed.
MS. CLARK: That is the bag itself?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: So you initial the actual evidence items themselves when you examine them for hair and trace?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You did that for 27 and 38?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: With respect to the bindles that you created, did you put them both in one coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Were they closed up before you put them into the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: I'm showing the photograph, your Honor, that is already depicted, I believe, on our chain board.
THE COURT: All right. This has to do with item 112.
MS. CLARK: 112, your Honor. I'm sorry, it is 113. It should be 113.
MS. BROCKBANK: I'm sorry, on the knit cap I believe I separated the interior from the exterior and put them in separate coin envelopes, not the same coin envelope.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: Let me change photographs, your Honor.
(Brief pause.)
MS. CLARK: All right. This is the photograph for item no. 113 on the chain board which shows hair and trace from no. 38, we have referred to the blue knit cap. Are you looking at that photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You see there is a blue thing down at the bottom of the photograph in the lower left-hand corner?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, we call them slide mailers. It is basically a container that we place mounted slides, those are slides with hairs mounted on them, to protect the slide, so that, you know, you don't just drop a glass side into an envelope and expect it to stay intact, so it can get broken very easily, so we have these plastic containers and we also have some cardboard containers that we will place those slides into to protect them when they are being transported and stored and that sort of thing.
MS. CLARK: I have two photographs.
MR. BLASIER: Counsel, what number is that?
MS. CLARK: That is just from the chain board. I'm not marking those individually because they are already on 426.
(Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
MR. BLASIER: Can we have that one marked, your Honor?
THE COURT: Mr. Fairtlough, can we print this out? It is available.
(Peo's 426-A for id = photograph)
THE COURT: Miss Clark.
(Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
MS. CLARK: I have a photograph, your Honor, ask that it be marked People's next in order, 442.
(Peo's 442 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Can you tell us if you recognize what is shown in this photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, there is--at the top of the screen there is a large--well, larger coin envelope with my markings, 94-0817431, item no. 113 and S.A.B., which is an envelope that I placed the other envelopes, which aren't on the screen any more, but were on the screen a second ago.
MS. CLARK: Let's pull back a little bit here.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah.
MS. CLARK: All right. That is a larger manila type envelope that you just identified?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Below that you see some other things?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right. Off to the left is a large white paper bindle which I removed--that is actually a bindle that I placed debris. I believe there were like leaves and plant material on the exterior of the hat, and I placed those into that bindle.
MS. CLARK: That has a separate item number, doesn't it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, no. It is also item no. 113, which is what I booked those items as.
MS. CLARK: Okay. You packaged the soil and the leaves separately?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Okay. That is what is contained in that larger white package?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Then off to the right of that there are three small appear to be white bindles?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: Can you tell us what those are?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, those are--are three bindles that--well, when I initially examined the hat, I put the hairs from the exterior in one bindle and the hairs from the interior in a separate bindle and then each of those bindles went into those two coin envelopes that you see in the lower right portion of the screen.
MS. CLARK: So did you separate then the bindle for the exterior from the bindle from the interior into separate coin envelopes?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Do you want to correct that when you said earlier you didn't?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right. That is what I said a couple minutes ago.
MS. CLARK: Right. Then there is a third bindle there. Did you create that at some later point?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: How did you do that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, at a later point I was asked to separate the darker pigmented hairs from the lighter ones. There was some hairs that appeared to be blond in color, very light, and then there was some dark black to brown hairs. I was asked to separate those from the animal hairs, so there became now three bindles instead of just the one. One has the dark-colored hairs in it and one has the light-colored hairs in it and one has the animal hairs in it.
MS. CLARK: Lots of stuff on that hat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah.
MS. CLARK: Did you somehow designate, when you did that, where those hairs came from on the cap, when you had to regroup them?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, well, I marked each of those--each of those bindles, and I--the markings are there, and you know, very basic descriptions of the hairs. The top one you can see: "Seven blond lightly pigmented hairs, no roots from outer surface of knit cap, item 38, separated by S.A.B.," those are my initials, "On 6/23/94." Those were separated from the original bindle and placed into that bindle. And then the second bindle down, thank you: "Four dark brown to black hairs, including one with fleshy root intact." I was also asked to see if hairs had roots or if they were just fragments of hairs which meant they were broken or cut or in some way the root detached from them, so I noted that there was one with a root. And then: "From outer surfaces of knit cap, item no. 38, separated by S.A.B., 6/23/94." And then the third bindle you can't really read what is on it, but it is--you can see part of it. It is "Animal hairs and fibers."
MS. CLARK: All right. Did you make notations on the coin envelopes depicting what was--which bindle was in which envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: On the coin envelopes? I noted that--well, the one on the right you can see, says "Inside cap surfaces." The one on the left is covered up by one of the bindles, but it said, "Outside cap surfaces" which were exterior of the cap and interior of the cap.
MS. CLARK: All right. After you put the one--at that point it was just two bindles; one bindle in each?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Coin envelope and you wrote on the coin envelope. What did you do with them, the coin envelopes?
MS. BROCKBANK: I folded over the top of the coin envelope, placed those in that analyzed evidence envelope that I had set aside, when I--when I examined the first cap, placed it in there with that cap. Actually--well, it was inside that larger--I'm sorry, those two went inside the larger and the--let me start over. The two coin envelopes and the bindles inside them, along with the larger white bindle you see on the left, were all placed in that larger envelope up at the top of the screen, then that was placed into the analyzed evidence envelope that I had set aside after examining the first cap.
MS. CLARK: A box within a box within a box?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Had you at this point opened that package containing the Bronco carpet, item no. 33?
MS. BROCKBANK: Had I what, I'm sorry?
MS. CLARK: Had you touched or had you opened that carpet--that piece of carpet, item no. 33 that you described earlier as being encased in paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I had not opened it at that time.
MS. CLARK: All right. What did you do with the blue knit cap after you completed all of this?
MS. BROCKBANK: It was placed back into the paper bag that it came from and the tape bag was folded over, taped closed and put back into the box that it came out of.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And taped shut again?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you move on to the next item of evidence at that point?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: And what was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the glove, item no. 9.
MS. CLARK: The glove from Rockingham?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, both of the gloves, item no. 9 and then item no. 37.
MS. CLARK: What did you do to prepare for the examination of those items?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, again that piece of paper, my working surface from the previous item was discarded, my gloves were discarded, and a new piece of paper was laid down and I applied new gloves. And then I took that glove, item no. 9, removed it from the bag and began my examination on it.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Item no. 9.
MS. CLARK: Yes.
THE COURT: Perhaps this would be a good spot before we move on to that.
MS. CLARK: All right.
THE COURT: All right. Let me see counsel at the side bar with the court reporter, please.
(Pages 34138 through 34140, volume 176A, transcribed and sealed under separate cover.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We are going to take our recess for the morning session. Please remember all of my admonitions to you. Don't discuss the case among yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't allow anybody to communicate with you, and do not conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you. And we will stand in recess until 1:15. All right. Miss Brockbank, you are ordered to come back at 1:15. Thank you.
(At 12:02 P.M. the noon recess was taken until 1:30 P.M. of the same day.)
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, JUNE 27, 1995 1:20 P.M.
Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge
APPEARANCES: (Appearances as heretofore noted.)
(Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)
(Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. Mr. Blasier, are you prepared to proceed?
MR. BLASIER: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. Where did Deputy Magnera disappear to? Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please.
(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. All right. Let the record reflect we've been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good afternoon.
THE COURT: Miss Brockbank, would you resume the witness stand, please.
Susan A. Brockbank, the witness on the stand at the time of the lunch recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
THE COURT: All right. Good afternoon, Miss Brockbank. You are reminded you are still under oath. Miss Clark, you may continue with your direct examination.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MS. CLARK
MS. CLARK: I think where we left off was the Rockingham glove, item no. 9.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. You recovered that glove, I think you indicated it was in a bag that was taped shut?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Can you tell us--you had clean paper down, you had clean gloves, your lab coat on. What did you do with the bag?
MS. BROCKBANK: I opened the bag over the clean paper, removed the glove from the bag, and I noticed some hairs I think and debris inside the bag. So I removed those items, placed them in a paper bindle and marked "Removed from bag containing glove" I believe. And then I examined the glove, the exterior surface for hairs and fibers, and there were some around the opening to the glove. I removed those, placed those in a paper bindle, marked "Removed from"--I think I said "Opening of glove." I try and be fairly specific when items are removed.
MS. CLARK: And when you say "From opening of glove," do you mean around the wrist area?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. On the exterior surface of the glove, the opening where you--near your wrist. These were found in that general area, right around there. Not toward the fingers, but towards this end (Indicating).
MS. CLARK: Was it on the outside of the wrist area?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So you picked that out first?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: With your gloved hands?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And where did you put the items that you recovered from the wrist area?
MS. BROCKBANK: In a paper bindle.
MS. CLARK: Now, when you removed the--you indicated there was some debris inside the bag that contained the glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you tap that in or did you take it out with your gloved hand?
MS. BROCKBANK: I, you know, basically had the bag in my hand, in my left hand, and then reached in with my right hand and, you know, maybe gently tapped the bag out onto the white paper and then placed that into the bindle.
MS. CLARK: Okay. With your hands?
MS. BROCKBANK: With my hands, yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did you look on the butcher paper underneath that bindle to see if any of the trace may have fallen out?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did it?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And did you close up that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And make some notations on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What notations, if any, did you make on it if you recall?
MS. BROCKBANK: I think I basically put something about "Removed from bag containing glove, no. 9," my initials, the date.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And did you examine your gloves for any remaining hair and trace before you picked off the hair and trace from the wrist area?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Was there any on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And after you picked off the hair and trace from the exterior of the wrist area of glove no. 9 and put it into a bindle, did you close that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you examine your gloves to see if there was any remaining trace on your gloves or on the butcher paper underneath the bindle when you did that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And was there any?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And after you closed the bindle, did you make some notations on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Do you recall what the notations were?
MS. BROCKBANK: Again, "Removed from glove" and I believe I said something about "Area around opening of glove."
MS. CLARK: And did you remove any more hair or trace or fiber from that glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Not at that time.
MS. CLARK: After you created those two bindles, where did you put them?
MS. BROCKBANK: They were placed into a coin envelope, which I folded over and then placed in an analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: Okay. The coin envelope, did you make any markings on that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what, if any, markings did you make on that?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't remember specifically, but basically "Trace evidence removed from glove, item no. 9" and the date and my initials.
MS. CLARK: Okay. I'm going to show you a photograph that is already contained on the chain board for item no. 110. Okay. Do you recognize what's being shown there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: The left--on the left-hand side is that analyzed evidence envelope. Kind of in the middle area is the--I put the coin envelope marked "Trace evidence removed from glove, item no. 9 by S.A. Brockbank, E9110 on"--and if you could focus--"6-21 and 6-23-94." Then down at the bottom, there's some other things. Those--"110" and whatever is written after that I didn't write. I don't know what that says. Down at the bottom is the DR number again, "94-0817431," and "Item no. 110," also in my handwriting; and then on the right-hand side are three paper--three paper bindles and there's marking on them as well.
MS. CLARK: All right. The three paper bindles, do you recognize any of them as being the--two of the bindles that you've just described?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Tell us which ones.
MS. BROCKBANK: Can you--
MS. CLARK: Can you zoom in on that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I have another photograph that shows the back of these items that might be more helpful to the witness if I may.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: People's 443?
THE COURT: 443.
(Peo's 443 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: All right. Do you recognize first of all item no. 110 there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Is that the item number that you assigned to the hair and trace removed from glove no. 9?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is. The top bindle is "Removed from edge of glove opening by S.A.B.," the date "6-21-94" and "Item no. 9."
MS. CLARK: Okay. And that's the bindle you just described to us?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And below that?
MS. BROCKBANK: "Removed from inside paper bag, which contains item no. 9 glove by S.A.B., 6-21-94," which is the other paper bindle I described.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, after you--after you completed those two bindles, you put them into the coin envelope?
MS. CLARK: Can we see that again, please, the coin envelope? Oh, let's go back to the one on the chain board that shows the--
MS. CLARK: All right. Once again, I'm showing you the photograph that's contained on board People's 436?
THE COURT: As item no. 110.
MS. CLARK: As--yes. Thank you, your Honor. As item 110.
MS. CLARK: And the coin envelope shown there, that's the one that you created on the 21st for the--to contain the bindles for the hair and trace removed from glove no. 9?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That's correct.
MS. CLARK: All right. There's writing--there's writing on that envelope, shows "110" and then "J"--I can't read the last initial. Can you read that?
MS. BROCKBANK: I think it's "J.H., 6-14-95."
MS. CLARK: Right.
MS. BROCKBANK: "J.H." would be my supervisor, Joe Hourigan.
MS. CLARK: And for what purpose would he be initialing this coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I believe he was involved in just having this photograph done. So he opened up various items of evidence and had photographs done for court. So he initialed the items that he looked at.
MS. CLARK: Okay. All right. But this is the coin envelope that you made on June 21st, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Okay. After you completed the recovery of the trace from the wrist and from the interior of the bag for glove no. 9, what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I took that coin envelope and set it aside, and it was in the analyzed evidence envelope, set that aside and I set the glove--either set it aside or put it back in the bag. I can't really remember because I was going to do something else with it as well. And then I opened up the next glove, which was item no. 37, and began examining it on clean paper.
MS. CLARK: Now, with respect to the analyzed evidence envelope, was that the white envelope we saw in this photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: On the chain board as no. 110?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And you placed the coin envelope containing the bindles into that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That's correct.
MS. CLARK: All right. You moved on to glove no. 37 from Bundy?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, when you did that, did you do it in the same area where glove no. 9 was?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, I had--I had, like I said, moved glove no. 9 either on its paper to a different area of the lab or I had put it back in the bag. I can't really remember which, but then I laid down new clean paper on that work surface and got the next glove out of the box. It was in a bag.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, are you sure that you made--you took steps to make sure that the two gloves were not in the same working area?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And why are you sure of that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Whenever I'm handling any piece of evidence, I don't want those two pieces of evidence to come into contact just to prevent any possible contamination of fibers or hairs going from one to the other while I'm handling them.
MS. CLARK: What did you do with glove no. 37--first of all, let me ask you this. Before moving on to glove no. 37 to open the bag, did you change the butcher paper on the table?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And that was after you had moved no. 9 away?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Did you change gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And you were wearing a lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Do you periodically ever look at the lab coat to see if there's any hair or trace on the lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah. Periodically.
MS. CLARK: Did you see any during any of these processes you're describing to us today?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: So you examined no. 37 on clean paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What did you do with it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Basically, the same thing I did with the first glove. I removed it from the bag on the clean piece of paper. I examined the outside of the glove for hairs and fibers and I picked those up, placed them into a paper bindle. Before I did that, I looked in the bag, and there were some fibers loose in the bag. So I removed those fibers in a similar manner as I did the first glove, and then I actually picked the fibers off of the glove itself. So I created one paper bindle for the fibers and hairs taken out of the bag and a separate bindle for the hairs and fibers taken off of the glove itself.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And do you recall from what area of the glove, no. 37, you removed hair and trace?
MS. BROCKBANK: I removed just from all over. I didn't make a specific notation as far as "Opening of glove." There was hair, you know, and fiber just basically all over it.
MS. CLARK: On 37?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: More so than on no. 9?
MS. BROCKBANK: As I recall, there was, yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you assign an item number to that item, to the hair and trace that you recovered from no. 37 glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what number was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe that was item no. 112.
MS. CLARK: I'm going to show you a photograph that is on the chain board as item no. 112. When I say "Chain board," I'm referring to People's 436. And do you recognize what's shown here?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What is it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Again, on the left is an analyzed evidence envelope, in the middle is a coin envelope and on the right-hand side are three paper bindles. I'm not sure what that is between the paper bindles and the item 112.
MS. CLARK: Could it be a pillbox?
MS. BROCKBANK: Oh, yeah. That could be a pillbox.
MS. CLARK: Tell the jury what a pillbox is.
MS. BROCKBANK: A pillbox is basically just a--it's a circular plastic dish and it has a lid that fits on it. It kind of--kind of snaps on, and it's something used in the FBI lab. That's where they put their trace evidence in. So they place it in those pillboxes. And it's a transparent thing so that they can examine what's in there, you know, without having a piece of white paper to deal with. They like to deal with the pillboxes. And that's what that is. That was done at the FBI lab. That wasn't something I did.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And is there some red tape on there?
MS. BROCKBANK: It's white and red evidence tape, FBI evidence tape around the edge.
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh. And is there some red tape also on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah. It does look like it down on the lower half.
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh. Yeah, that.
MS. BROCKBANK: Can't hardly see it, but yeah, I do see that.
THE COURT: Miss Brockbank, there's a monitor here that could be a little clearer.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah.
THE COURT: Better angle.
MS. BROCKBANK: I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Thank you, your Honor.
MS. BROCKBANK: I see the red tape better on this monitor.
MS. CLARK: Okay. All right. Let's zoom in on the bindles. Tell us if you recognize any of those bindles, please. First one up on top there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I recognize it. It's--got notations on it, "Removed from inside bag which contains item no. 37 by S.A.B., 6-23-94."
MS. CLARK: Okay. And so you removed that--the debris from the bag for this item on the 23rd, not on the 21st?
MS. BROCKBANK: That would be correct, according to this.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: I thought I did it on the 21st, but according to my bindle, I did it on the 23rd.
MS. CLARK: Okay. We'll get back to that. You revisited this--the gloves again then after the 21st, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. And the bindle just below that, do you recognize that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That says "Outer surfaces of glove, item no. 37 removed by S.A.B., 6-21-94."
MS. CLARK: So that bindle contains all of the hair and fiber and trace that you recovered from the exterior of the Bundy glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And that's your handwriting I take it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, moving over to the coin envelope--well, before we do that, there's a bindle below that, also appears to be your handwriting dated June 23rd, 1994.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. And it says "Removed from inside of glove, item no. 37, by S.A.B., 6-23-94."
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: And then "Animal hairs. No human hair observed."
MS. CLARK: That was your observation--excuse me?
MS. BROCKBANK: I'm sorry. Yes.
MS. CLARK: Yes. That was the observation you made with your examination of the hair and fiber contained in that bindle, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That's correct.
MS. CLARK: And that bindle, the contents of it, were later examined by Mr. Deedrick of the FBI?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: And there was some discrepancy in your findings with respect to what was contained in that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. There might have been.
MS. CLARK: Okay. We'll get back to it.
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't remember specifically.
MS. CLARK: We'll get back to it later.
MS. BROCKBANK: Okay.
MS. CLARK: And so that's the--that's the third bindle of hair, trace or fiber that you collected from the glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Okay. That was from the inside?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Showing you the coin envelope now, do you recognize the writing on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: Is it yours?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And is that the coin envelope you created on the 21st to contain the bindles of hair and trace recovered from the Bundy glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And you see the item number down at the bottom of that coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. It's partly covered by the red tape, but it's item no. 112.
MS. CLARK: And the DR number for this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: After you put the two bindles you created on the 21st into that coin envelope, you indicate you closed the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, again, as you did before, in between the examination of each item, did you look at the butcher paper on which you examined the item for any hair or trace that may have come off?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you find any?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Did you examine your gloves for any hair and trace that might have come off during your examination?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you find anything?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Other than picking the hair and trace off the exterior of the glove, did you brush it as you did the other items you've described or shake it in any manner?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't believe I did. No.
MS. CLARK: And after you created the bindles and put them in the coin envelope, did you put the coin envelope into the analyzed evidence envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Could you repeat that question? I'm sorry.
MS. CLARK: After you put the bindles, the two bindles you created that day into the coin envelope, did you put the coin envelope into the analyzed evidence envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: All right. What happened next?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, oh, I--I was asked to compare the two gloves themselves, and so I began making some measurements on the gloves.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did you have them photographed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Before or after the measurements?
MS. BROCKBANK: Before the measurements.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And how did you cause them to be photographed?
MS. BROCKBANK: The gloves were each laid on individual pieces of paper, the examination paper, and I had them photographed actually laying on a floor. So I put down a piece of white paper covering a large area of the floor and then I took the smaller white papers with the glove actually on them, laid those on that white piece of paper that was on the floor. And I had a photographer with me. He inserted a scale I believe between the two items. So they were still on separate pieces of paper. And he photographed them together and then we photographed them up close, a little closer up individually.
MS. CLARK: Did you ever allow the gloves to touch?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: Did you handle both gloves with the same hand?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: How did you handle them?
MS. BROCKBANK: While the photographing process was going on, if I needed to turn a glove over, I turned the right glove with my right hand and the left glove with my left hand, so I never touched both gloves with the same hands.
MS. CLARK: Now, were you doing this with clean gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, the--we have a photograph of both gloves together. I ask that it be marked People's 444.
THE COURT: People's 444.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
(Peo's 444 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: You can look at your monitor.
THE COURT: It's a little sharper that way.
MS. BROCKBANK: It is.
MS. CLARK: Do you recognize what's shown in that photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And tell us what it is.
MS. BROCKBANK: Those are the two gloves, side by side, photograph as I described with a scale in between them.
MS. CLARK: And do you see item numbers beneath each glove designating which is which?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And do you see item no. 9 below what would be the right glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And item no. 37 below the left glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: After the photographing was done, what did you do with the gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: After the photographing was done, I made some measurements of them individually. And those pages of my notes are missing. I left them I think in your office when we had a pretrial meeting.
MS. CLARK: That's why I have them. Okay. Let me show you these. Defense has a copy. I have two pages. Each one of them contains a diagram of a hand.
MS. BROCKBANK: Right. Right. I examined the left glove first. And basically for--for my measurements and for the purpose of just making an illustration of how I made those measurements, I traced around my own hand. This is a tracing of my hand, not a tracing of the gloves.
MR. BLASIER: Your Honor, since we're referring to that document, can we have that marked, please?
MS. CLARK: I am going to mark it. I think it would be easier if I just put it on the elmo.
MR. BLASIER: I thought we had marked these last week with another witness as well; had we not?
MS. CLARK: Did we?
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. CLARK: We did. Okay.
MR. BLASIER: So there may already be a set.
THE COURT: Mrs. Robert--hold on. Mrs. Robertson? Mrs. Robertson has them.
MS. CLARK: I'll give them back to you.
MS. BROCKBANK: Okay.
MR. BLASIER: 402?
MS. CLARK: 402?
MR. BLASIER: 402.
MS. CLARK: Thank you. Why don't I just use these while--so I don't have to bother Mrs. Robertson.
THE COURT: It's her job. It's not a bother.
MS. CLARK: Okay. These have been previously marked as 402-A and 402-B.
(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
THE COURT: And refresh my recollection. Is a right and b left?
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry, your Honor?
THE COURT: Refresh my recollection. Is a right and b left?
MS. CLARK: Yes.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MS. CLARK: All right.
MS. CLARK: Let me show you 402-B. All right. Is that a diagram that you made, a tracing around your hand on June 21st?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: How is it--first of all, let me ask you this. You finished the photography. The--first of all, you had the items on the floor, on paper on the floor?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Weren't you concerned that they were going to get dust or some kind of--get dirty, get stuff on them that didn't belong on them when putting them on the floor?
MS. BROCKBANK: Not really, no. I--as I said, I laid out a large piece of white paper and then, you know, watched--watched as the photographs were being taken. We don't have strong wind currents gusting through our lab as far as kicking dust around and things. So I really wasn't worried about that.
MS. CLARK: Was the lab clean?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Floor clean?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you picked the gloves up off the floor, did you pick them up individually on their paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And then when you went about the measurement process, can you tell us how you did that, which glove you started with?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I started with item 37.
MS. CLARK: That would be the left glove then?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Let's go to 402-B. Do I have it?
MS. BROCKBANK: And I measured from the tips of the fingers of the glove to the glove opening just on the backs of the gloves, and I made five measurements, one for the thumb and one for each of the different fingers, and I made notations, basically drew a line from the end of the finger to the opening of the glove and then made a notation as to the length in inches as measured on a ruler. I just had a ruler out on my lab bench. Measured, read the measurement, wrote it down for each of those fingers, and then I went on to the--the other glove, item 9, the right glove, and I made similar measurements on it.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, were you touching the gloves with your hands as you were measuring?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Were your hands gloved?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Were they clean gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you went from--when you finished the measurements on the left glove--why don't we indicate for the record what they are. Can you read them?
MS. BROCKBANK: I can read them off my notes if that's all right. For the--starting on the left-hand side, which would be like the pinky finger, it was eight inches. The next finger in was nine and a quarter inches. The next finger in towards the right is nine and 5/8 inches. The next finger in is nine inches and the thumb measured six and a half inches.
MS. CLARK: Now, were these gloves dry when you saw them on the 21st?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: Were they still cold from the freezer?
MS. BROCKBANK: When I was first examining them, yes, they were. They take a little time to warm up.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, you moved on then to the right glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That's correct.
MS. CLARK: And was the right glove on a--where was the right glove while you were doing this?
MS. BROCKBANK: It was on another portion of the lab bench just set aside for the moment.
MS. CLARK: Did you change gloves before you went to measure this right-handed glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did you check your gloves for any hair or trace that may have come off during the measurement process of the left glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did, but this was all done after I had removed fibers and hairs from the gloves. So there shouldn't have been anyway but I did.
MS. CLARK: So after you changed gloves, you went to measure the right glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you use the same procedure as before?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You made certain observations of the condition of this glove I notice on this diagram, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what observations were those?
MS. BROCKBANK: On the thumb measurement, I have two measurements that I listed, six inches and six and a half inches. That's the measurement on the far left of the screen. And I made a notation that says "When edge of glove is folded back to where it would be in original condition," and then there's an arrow kind of connecting that to some other notations I made near the base of the glove. Oh, didn't realize what you'd done there. In the--if you could get back a ways a little bit for a minute. In the lower left-hand portion of the screen there, kind of pointing towards that--that area of the glove down--down near the base of the thumb where the opening is, there are--the--I made notations that say "The edge of the glove opening is unfolded here. There's distortion in the shape of the glove." Basically, the leather on the glove comes down from the fingers and then folds over about half--about half of an inch, and then the interior lining is sewn into the inside, but in this particular area, that was unfolded. There was a little distortion. So I made those two measurements, one with the edge folded in and one with the edge folded out, which is how the glove wanted to be basically. It just wanted to lay that way opened up. And so those are your two measurements, six and six and a half.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So then the hem of the wrist area of the right glove was pulled out?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. And then there are some other notations on the right side of the glove, and those kind of help explain this. It say--what I wrote is "Some stitching along this opening is pulled/missing. I took my exemplar of thread," which means I cut a small piece of a thread to look at under the microscope, "From the end of a pulled strand of thread in this previously damaged area." So there was some thread missing in that area, and that I think helped account for the distortion and the overall look of the glove.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And the measurements that you made for this--for the fingers of this glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Again, starting with the thumb on the--on the far left of the screen, those two measurements, six, six and a half, depending on whether you fold that flap in, then the index finger was eight and a half inches. The next finger over towards the right of the screen, nine and a quarter inches. The next finger is eight and three-quarter inches and the last finger was seven and three-quarter inches.
(Brief pause.)
MS. CLARK: Now, on June the 20th, did I ask you to measure a new looking pair of gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, you did.
MS. CLARK: And did they appear similar to the gloves that you've just described, 9--nos. 9 and 37?
MS. BROCKBANK: Similar style of glove, but new.
MS. CLARK: And did you make those measurements?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: All right. Then if you could tell us, did you measure those new gloves in the same manner you described measuring these other ones?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what was the result of that with respect to the right and the left glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: I'll have to refer to my notes which are a different page here.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did you turn over copies of those notes to us?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did. Measurements for the right glove, the thumb measurement was seven and one-quarter inches, the index finger, nine and three-quarter inches, middle finger, 10 and 1/8 inches, the ring finger, 10 inches, the pinky finger, eight and three-quarter inches. For the left glove, the thumb measurement was seven inches, index finger was nine and three-quarter inches, middle finger, 10 and one-quarter inches, ring finger was 10 and 1/8 inch and pinky finger was eight and 7/8 inches.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, these newer gloves that you measured on June 20th of this year, did they have a size indicated on the label?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they did.
MS. CLARK: And what was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: It was XL.
MS. CLARK: And the gloves, nos. 9 and 37, did one of those have a tag that indicated what size it was?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what did it say?
MS. BROCKBANK: XL.
MS. CLARK: So what was the difference in the sizes of the--in the sizes of the new gloves that you measured on June 20th of this year and the size of the glove nos. 9 and 37 that you retrieved from the freezer on June the 21st?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, they varied from finger to finger. I believe the greatest difference was about an inch and a quarter.
MS. CLARK: On one finger?
MS. BROCKBANK: On one of the fingers. I can tell you exactly which finger if you want to--
MS. CLARK: Sure.
(Brief pause.)
MS. BROCKBANK: Actually, on a couple of the fingers on the right glove, there was an inch and a quarter difference in length.
MS. CLARK: Inch and a quarter difference. Which one was larger? Which one was smaller?
MS. BROCKBANK: The newer gloves were larger all the way across the board.
MS. CLARK: And by as much as an inch and a quarter in one finger?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, after you got done measuring the Bundy and Rockingham gloves, 9 and 37--37 and 9 respectively, what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: I returned them to their respective paper bags, folded them over, taped them closed, returned them to the box that they came from.
MS. CLARK: And was all of this examination done on June the 21st?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then where did you place box no. 2?
MS. BROCKBANK: Box no. 2 was placed in the freezer in our serology unit of the crime lab.
MS. CLARK: Now, that box, did it contain the hair and fiber bindles that you created?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: What did it contain?
MS. BROCKBANK: It contained the original items of evidence that were collected from the crime scene.
MS. CLARK: What was originally in the box when you took it out that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And box no. 1, what did you do with it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Box no. 1 was kept in my storage locker in the trace analysis lab.
MS. CLARK: Why didn't you take it back to the evidence control unit?
MS. BROCKBANK: I wasn't quite done examining the evidence in that box yet. So I kept it in my lab.
MS. CLARK: And when you kept it in your lab, was it in some way secured there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I have an evidence locker which is under the counter of that large examination table that I described earlier, and it's a locker which has a key to lock it. I placed that box--all of the evidence that I placed in that locker was then locked in with a key, and I retained the key.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, at this point, were all of the bindles of hair and trace that you collected from the evidence items on June 21st in coin envelopes that were then placed into analyzed evidence envelopes?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And where did you keep the analyzed--where did you keep all that, all those envelopes?
MS. BROCKBANK: All those envelopes that were in that one analyzed evidence envelope was in my evidence locker.
MS. CLARK: Locked in there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. On June the 22nd, 1994--
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: --did you again examine item no. 19 that you've identified on the board marked People's 436, the hair and trace recovered from the Rockingham glove by Dennis Fung?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do to prepare for that examination?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I--basically, you know, the same kind of thing I've been doing all around. Laid down clean white paper. I opened the envelope. And I had examined item 9 the previous day, so I knew what I was expecting to find. I opened up the coin envelope, removed the paper bindle, and inside the paper bindle were those hairs and fibers, placed those on a microscope slide and mounted them with water, examined them on the microscope and made some notations as to what I observed.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, again, you're wearing clean gloves and white lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you put them under the microscope on the slide, how did you mount them?
MS. BROCKBANK: In water.
MS. CLARK: Same as before?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Why were you mounting--you indicated earlier to us the problem with mounting in water. So why did you do it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I was asked to mount the hairs in water by my supervisor at the time, Greg Matheson, who wanted me basically to look at these hairs to see if they had roots on them or not. The hairs with roots could potentially be tested for DNA and those without roots could not using the PCR method. So they--the serology unit, the DNA unit was not really sure how our mounting media, our other mounting media that's more appropriate for hair would affect that DNA. So they requested that I mount them in water and kind of sacrifice a little bit of my visibility in looking at the hairs in order to preserve that possible DNA evidence.
MS. CLARK: Okay. When you mounted the hairs from no. 19 in water on this particular date, you used the same process you described to us before?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: During this process, did anything happen to one of the hairs that you were examining?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What happened?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, when I was mounting it on the slide, placing the hair actually on the slide, it broke, broke in two. So now instead of having--I believe there were three hairs total. Instead of having three hairs, now I had four hairs or four pieces of hair.
MS. CLARK: Did you make a note of that somewhere?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And after you--after you completed your examination of the hairs on the water mount on that slide, what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: I unmounted those hairs again, basically the reverse of mounting, removed them from the slide, placed them back into the paper bindle, put that paper bindle back in the coin envelope. This time I sealed the coin envelope with a piece of tape, initialed that and dated it. And then I examined item no. 58 in the same manner.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So you sealed the coin envelope on this date, did you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then placed it where?
MS. BROCKBANK: Placed it back in the original box that it came out of.
MS. CLARK: Box no. 1?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Well, did you put it in an analyzed evidence envelope or just put the sealed coin envelope into the box?
MS. BROCKBANK: Just the sealed coin envelope into the box.
MS. CLARK: Which is how you found it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, item no. 58 was what?
MS. BROCKBANK: Item no. 58 was a coin envelope which contained two plastic bags, and each of those plastic bags had some hairs and/or fibers in them.
MS. CLARK: And where did that come from?
MS. BROCKBANK: That came out of box no. 1.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And was that hair or fiber collected from a bloodstain at Rockingham?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You examined it under the microscope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Did you do that with a water mount on a slide or did you just look at it inside the paper bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: I used the water mount on a slide.
MS. CLARK: Now, this item--I forgot to ask you about this item--was it packaged in some kind of paper bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. They were in--
MS. CLARK: Plastic bags?
MS. BROCKBANK: --plastic bags.
MS. CLARK: All right. What did you see when you looked at item no. 58 on the slide?
MS. BROCKBANK: Animal hairs.
MS. CLARK: Just animal hairs?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. No human hairs.
MS. CLARK: And after you noted that, what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: I again unmounted the slide, placed those hairs back into their respective plastic bags and then replaced those bags into the coin envelope that they came from and then sealed the coin envelope with a taped seal, initialed it and dated it, placed that back into the box that it had originally come from--
MS. CLARK: Box 1?
MS. BROCKBANK: --box 1.
MS. CLARK: All right. June 23rd, was box 1 still in your locker then?
MS. BROCKBANK: Actually on the 22nd, I also sealed that box, box 1.
MS. CLARK: How did you seal it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Taped around--like I had described earlier, taped around with the black tape around the circumference of the box in two directions, then placed an evidence seal across that closure.
MS. CLARK: Was that black or brown tape?
MS. BROCKBANK: Brown tape.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Moving towards June 23rd, can you tell us what, if anything, you did with box no. 1?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I returned box no. 1 to our evidence control unit because I was done analyzing what I was requested to do from that box.
MS. CLARK: Then what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, let me see. Then I went to the serology unit--after returning box 1 to the evidence control unit, I went to serology and removed the gloves and the two hats from box no. 2, which were in the freezer, and took just those items in the bags to the trace analysis unit to examine them further.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Which item did you examine first?
MS. BROCKBANK: I examined the knit hat and then the brown hat.
MS. CLARK: The knit hat, meaning no. 38, the ski cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What did you do with it?
MS. BROCKBANK: I ran a test which tests for blood.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And did you use clean paper to do that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I--I--same process as before. I removed the hat from the paper bag onto a clean piece of paper wearing clean gloves, ran my tests and then I replaced the cap back into the bag, folded the bag over, sealed it with a piece of tape.
MS. CLARK: And then what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: Then I examined the second hat and did the same tests on it.
MS. CLARK: Okay. The second hat, meaning the cap you identified earlier in the Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Item 27.
MS. CLARK: And before you did that, did you change gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Before I examined the second hat, I changed paper, changed gloves. Same routine.
MS. CLARK: Do you--is that something you invariably do in every--with every item?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: Second nature?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah. It is to me.
MS. CLARK: And after you completed the--some kind of blood testing on the cap from the Bronco, what did you do with the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Replaced it into the bag, folded the bag over, sealed it with tape and then I returned both of those hats to the serology freezer into box no. 2 where I had taken them from.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do next?
MS. BROCKBANK: Next, I examined the gloves again, items 9 and 37.
MS. CLARK: Which one first?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I--I don't really recall. I listed them as 9 and 37. So it might have been 9. I like to go numerically a lot of times, so it was probably 9.
MS. CLARK: And where did you perform the examination of those gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: In the trace unit.
MS. CLARK: All right. And did you change gloves before examining item no. 9?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And clean paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: Same procedure, right.
MS. CLARK: What did you do with item no. 9 on that clean paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: I--I turned the gloves--well, item 9, you know, individually. I was working on item 9, turned it inside out, and this time I removed any hairs and fibers from the interior surface of that glove, placed those into a paper bindle and marked it accordingly.
MS. CLARK: And what procedure did you use to remove hair and fiber from the interior of the glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: The same procedure that I used before. You know, basically picking, rolling the fabric of the glove between my fingers, picking off those stray hairs or fibers that basically protruded and placed those in a paper bindle.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did you scrape the interior of the glove with your gloved hand?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe I did, yes, just very gently scraped over the paper.
MS. CLARK: And then what did you do with the trace and the hair that came off as a result of the picking and the scraping?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, all of that was placed into a paper bindle and marked--marked the bindle, "Removed from interior surface of glove, item no. 9," and then that was placed into coin envelope.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Before you did that, before you folded up and closed the bindle, did you examine the paper, the bindle--the item the glove was lying on and you were working over for any stray pieces of trace or fiber that may have come off?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You indicated earlier that you always crease the paper to create a funnel and gather it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you do that in this case?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And anything that was in that crease, you put into the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: After you did that, did you close the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you examine the paper again to make sure all the hair and trace was taken into the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you examine your gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And was there any remaining hair or trace that you could see?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: When you closed up the bindle, I think you indicated you put it into a coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And that's after you made notations on the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you make notations on the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: I did as far as the date goes. This is a--I used the same coin envelope that I had started for that glove the day before. And you'll notice on the coin envelope that there are two dates. Says "Hairs and fibers removed from glove no. 9 by S.A.B. on" and then there's two dates, 6-21 and 6-23.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Let's see.
MS. CLARK: I have on the monitor, your Honor, the photograph from the board marked People's 436 for item no. 110.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. CLARK: If we could zoom in on the bindle on the right-hand side. Thank you. I think we need the back of it where it's--all the writing is.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: That's a photograph that--I'm sorry, your Honor--photograph we've marked previously as People's 44O? 443. 442, your Honor. Sorry about that.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Can you tell us which bindle that is?
MS. BROCKBANK: The bindle on the lower right which says "Removed from surfaces"--oh, I'm sorry--"Removed from inside surfaces of glove, item no. 9, by S.A.B., 6-23-94."
MS. CLARK: Right. We are zooming in on that now. That's the--that's the bottom bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That's correct.
MS. CLARK: And after you--and after you made the notations, you put it into that coin envelope shown in this photograph as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, that's correct.
MS. CLARK: And again, this photograph that's been marked as 442, that's the back side of the photograph that's shown on the chain board for item no. 110?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do with the coin envelope when you were done packaging the bindle into it?
MS. BROCKBANK: I folded over the top of the coin envelope and placed it back into that analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, you described this--the hairs and fibers in this bindle from the interior of the glove as containing seven hairs total?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe--did I write that on the bindle I think?
MS. CLARK: I don't know. In your notes?
MS. BROCKBANK: Do you have the other photograph with the back of the bindles? No. It may be in my notes.
MS. CLARK: Do you want to refresh your memory?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
(Brief pause.)
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I have seven hairs total for all of those hairs removed from the glove. That would be inside the glove.
MS. CLARK: And outside?
MS. BROCKBANK: And outside.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: And the bag that the glove was packaged in.
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh. Okay. All right. And you also indicated--let me ask you this. In August, you wound up transporting all of these items to the FBI; is that correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And you assisted Mr. Deedrick in the examination of these items?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I helped prepare some of the items for examination. He performed all the examinations.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did he point out some discrepancy between your observations of the hairs collected from the glove at Rockingham and his?
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Calls for hearsay.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: Did your observations--did he point out something to you with respect to what he observed in the hairs collected from that glove?
MR. BLASIER: Same objection.
THE COURT: Overruled. Yes or no; did he point something out to you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did you notice on this second observation in the company of Mr. Deedrick that there were actually eight hairs and not seven in this package?
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: Did you notice a difference in the number of hairs from what you had earlier noted when you examined the contents of the bindles at the FBI in August?
MS. BROCKBANK: At that time, no, I didn't know there was a difference in count of hairs.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did that come to your attention at some point?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And when was that?
MR. BLASIER: Objection. No foundation. Based on hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. BROCKBANK: In a pretrial meeting with you.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And when you--did you make any effort to verify or to determine who was right; you or Mr. Deedrick?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: Let me ask you this, Miss Brockbank. Did you add any hairs to the bindle--to the bindles after you finished collecting on the 23rd?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Did you add any fibers to the bindles after you finished collecting on June the 23rd?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Again, when you made your examination and you noted seven hairs, how did you make that observation?
MS. BROCKBANK: Based on my water mounts of those hairs.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And you indicated earlier to us the problem with the water mount. Could that also have any impact on your ability to discern how many hairs or fibers are present?
MS. BROCKBANK: It could.
MS. CLARK: And you also indicated earlier--
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Nonresponsive.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. CLARK: You also indicated earlier that it could have an impact on your ability to accurately determine the color of items that you're looking at?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you discover any discrepancy in your description as to the color of the hairs that you were looking at contained in these bindles?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't believe so.
MS. CLARK: Well, did you--did you detect any black limb hair in the debris and hair that you recovered from the Rockingham glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. I did not describe anything like that.
MS. CLARK: And when I say "Limb hair," tell us what that means.
MS. BROCKBANK: It means a hair from a limb like an arm or a leg as opposed to a head hair or a pubic hair or other body hair.
MS. CLARK: Okay. When you examined the hairs recovered from the interior of the Rockingham glove in the company of Mr. Deedrick, did he point out anything with respect to the--did he point out any limb hair to you recovered from the interior of the Rockingham glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, he did.
MS. CLARK: And what did you see?
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Calling for hearsay.
THE COURT: "What did you see?" Overruled.
MS. BROCKBANK: I saw a limb hair.
MS. CLARK: What kind of limb hair did you see?
MS. BROCKBANK: A darkly pigmented limb hair.
MS. CLARK: And had you noticed that before when you examined the item?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I had not reported it. So I would have to say no, I didn't notice it before.
MS. CLARK: Okay. When you looked at it in the company of Mr. Deedrick, were you looking at it in water mount?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I wasn't.
MS. CLARK: How were you looking at it?
MS. BROCKBANK: I was looking at it properly mounted in a medium called permount, which is what we typically use to perform hair examinations. We mount it in this media, and you don't have the problem with the refractive index and the glare and those thick black lines surrounding your hairs. You can see the internal features much easier and clearly.
MS. CLARK: After you completed your packaging of the hair and fiber and trace from the interior of the Rockingham glove, what did you do next?
MS. BROCKBANK: Could you repeat that? I'm sorry.
MS. CLARK: Sure. After you completed the packaging of the hair and fiber and trace from the interior of the Rockingham glove, item no. 9, what did you do next?
MS. BROCKBANK: Then I began examining the other glove.
MS. CLARK: All right. And before you began to examine the other glove, did you prepare in some manner?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I again laid down a new clean piece of white paper, I had new gloves on, and then I removed the glove from the packaging.
MS. CLARK: Before doing that, had you repackaged glove no. 9 in its original bag?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you tape it shut again?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you recovered the Bundy glove from the bag, what procedure did you follow for the examination of--for hair and trace and fiber?
MS. BROCKBANK: The same procedure.
MS. CLARK: Did you turn it inside out?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you follow the same picking and scraping procedures you described earlier?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And how did you package the hair and fiber that was recovered by that method?
MS. BROCKBANK: In a paper bindle.
MS. CLARK: And did you make some notations on the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: "Removed from interior surface of glove, item no. 37."
MS. CLARK: Okay. And did you assign an item number--again, an item number was assigned to the hair and trace recovered from the Bundy glove?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And that was item number?
MS. BROCKBANK: 112.
MS. CLARK: I'm going to show you a photograph that is from the board 436 from item no. 112, and we showed that to you already I guess.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Can you see--
MS. CLARK: Can we zoom in on the bindle, please, Jonathan?
MS. CLARK: This is not the side that has the writing on it, is it?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: All right.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: The photograph that's now on the elmo, your Honor, has not yet been marked, and that depicts the back of the coin--this photograph now up here depicts the back of the coin envelope and the back of the bindles. We should mark it as People's 445?
THE COURT: All right. 445 as to item 112.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
(Peo's 445 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Showing you now the photograph that really is from the chain board for item no. 112. If we could zoom in on the bindles. Okay. Do you see the bindle that you created on June the 23rd for the removal of the interior trace and hair from glove no. 37?
MS. BROCKBANK: From the interior of the glove is the bottom right--the bottom bindle.
MS. CLARK: There we go.
MS. BROCKBANK: And it says "Removed from inside of glove, item no. 37 from S.A.B., 6-23-94" and then a note, "Animal hairs, no human hair observed 6-30-94."
MS. CLARK: Could we move up to the top bindle? Let me see. With respect to the hair and trace recovered from this Bundy glove, I'm going to show you again photograph no. 445, the bindle at the top.
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And that is the bindle that came from--that--that contained hair or fiber coming from where?
MS. BROCKBANK: From the bag which contained the glove.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: And my notation on this side of the bindle says "Mostly animal hairs, the animals covered up by some seals at the top/fibers and debris, one questionable human hair."
MS. CLARK: Now, with respect to that, did you examine the contents of this bindle again in the company of Mr. Deedrick at the FBI in August?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: All right. Between the time that you did the packaging and collecting of hair and fiber from this glove and sealed up the bindle and going to the FBI, did you add any hair or fiber to the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Or change any of the hair and fiber inside the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And did you--did you see that there were any more or fewer hairs on the slide when you examined it in permount, as it should be mounted, with Mr. Deedrick at the FBI in August?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't recall specifically what our findings were when I examined it with him.
MS. CLARK: All right. You indicate on the bindle that there was one questionable head hair in the debris?
MS. BROCKBANK: One questionable human hair.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And do you recall seeing with Mr. Deedrick two white hair fragments and a short human hair?
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: Do you recall looking again at the contents of this bindle with Mr. Deedrick?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And do you recall seeing more hairs when you looked at it in permount than you had originally looking at it in water mount?
MS. BROCKBANK: Vaguely. I don't really recall.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Is there--are there any notes that would refresh your recollection?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I didn't take any notes when I was at the FBI lab. I'm not sure if there are any notes here. If I can take a minute.
MS. CLARK: Sure.
(Brief pause.)
MR. BLASIER: May I approach, your Honor?
MS. CLARK: Let me ask you one question, Miss Brockbank. When Mr. Deedrick did his examination, did he allow you to examine what he had mounted in permount as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: He called my attention to certain items. I didn't examine every item that he examined.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: And, you know, pointed certain things out to me, and I observed them and I just don't recall exactly which items I was looking at at any specific time.
MS. CLARK: Okay. When he pointed things out to you, did you disagree with any of his observations?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And he's been doing it for how many years?
MS. BROCKBANK: I'm not even sure. 17, 18, 20, somewhere in that neighborhood.
MS. CLARK: And as of August of `94, how long have you been doing hair and trace examinations?
MS. BROCKBANK: Probably about three years.
MS. CLARK: Okay. All right. Now, when you get done collecting--handle it that way, yeah. When you get done collecting hair and fiber into a bindle, do you close it immediately?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: When you were finished collecting the hair and trace from the interior of the Bundy glove, you created the bindle that you've already identified for us, where did you put that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: I placed it into the coin envelope which I had already created for that glove.
MS. CLARK: The same one you previously identified?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then what?
MS. BROCKBANK: And then I folded over the top flap of that coin envelope, replaced it into the analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: Now, was this the last contact you had with those gloves before you took them to the FBI?
MS. BROCKBANK: On the 23rd?
MS. CLARK: Right.
MS. BROCKBANK: No. Well, yes. With the gloves, yes.
MS. CLARK: Because after you get done--after you get done collecting hair and trace from items, you make the bindles, the coin envelopes, do you ever put the coin envelopes and bindles back in contact with the item you've removed them from?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: During all of these procedures, did you ever touch the piece of carpet marked as item no. 33 that was wrapped up in paper and taped in the box?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: It remained in the box?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it did.
MS. CLARK: After you repackaged the Bundy glove, did you seal it up again?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And where did you put it?
MS. BROCKBANK: I took both of the gloves back to the serology lab and placed them into box no. 2, which was in the serology freezer.
MS. CLARK: So they went back in the freezer again?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Then what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well--just a second. Umm, I began examining evidence I had removed from item no. 38 previously, evidence that was now given--you know, going to be booked as item no. 113 eventually.
MS. CLARK: Now, this was--this was the hair and trace recovered from the blue knit ski cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And you examined it under the microscope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I examined it again using the water mount under the microscope.
MS. CLARK: Now, before you began this examination, did you again put down clean paper and change into clean gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: The item--the coin envelopes that contained the--coin envelopes that contained the bindles for the blue knit ski cap, were those in your locker still?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. What did you do with the--at this point, you still had the two bindles; is that correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: The one from the outside of the hat, one from the inside of the hat, yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. What, if anything, did you do with the contents of those two separate bindles on June 23rd?
MS. BROCKBANK: Again, I began examining the evidence, the hairs and fibers that had been removed from the outside surface of the hat, and I was asked on that day by my supervisor, Greg Matheson or Michelle Kestler, one of those two, to separate those darker colored hairs from the lighter colored hairs from the animal hairs. So that's the day I created more bindles and separated those hairs into three different categories.
MS. CLARK: Now, how did you do that to avoid everything getting mixed up and flying around? What precautions did you take?
MS. BROCKBANK: The hairs themselves were, you know, placed on a microscope slide, mounted in water, and I would move the slide and, you know, put like a little dot with black ink on the cover slip, kind of marking the hairs I wanted to remove and, you know, this is a hair versus a fiber or an animal hair, and--
MS. CLARK: Wait. Did you mark on the hairs or fibers themselves?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. On the cover slip that covers the slide.
MS. CLARK: The glass--that thin piece of glass on top?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right. Just kind of a little dot so I knew which hairs it was that I wanted to remove. And then over at the work station, I removed the hairs that were by those dots, put them in the separate coin or the separate paper bindles and then the remaining animal hairs and fibers were left in the original bindle.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And you did that for each of the bindles, each--the exterior bindle and the interior bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: I did it for the exterior bindle. I don't believe I did it for the interior bindle. I believe those all stayed in one--let me just check. Yeah, I believe they all stayed in one bindle. They were all darker hairs. There were no lighter ones there.
MS. CLARK: There were no lighter ones on the interior of the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: So did you even open it up to examine it on the scope--I mean, under the microscope that day or did you just leave that bindle intact?
MS. BROCKBANK: Actually on the 20--which day are we on? On the 23rd, no, I didn't look at the--at those hairs at all. Didn't open the bindle at all.
MS. CLARK: So the only bindle that was open for the cap on that day was the exterior?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: Have you identified all the bindles you created for item no. 38 so far?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe I have, yeah.
MS. CLARK: Okay. All right. Now, again, with respect to this particular item, do you recall counting up the number of hairs that you found for--that you recovered from item no. 38, the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And how many were there?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe I counted 34 hairs.
MS. CLARK: And when you got to the FBI, did Mr. Deedrick again examine the contents of the bindles you created removing hair and trace from the blue knit ski cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, he did.
MS. CLARK: And did you observe more hairs during that process when he examined them under permount instead of water mount?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: How many more were there?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe there were four additional hairs.
MS. CLARK: Four more? So what can account for that discrepancy?
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: You examined the hairs and counted them when you examined them under--with water mount?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And when you examined them in the company of Mr. Deedrick at the FBI, how were they mounted on the slide?
MS. BROCKBANK: In permount.
MS. CLARK: And did you observe there were four more hairs when they were mounted in permount?
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: Did you make any observation concerning the number of hairs removed from item no. 38, the ski cap, when you examined them mounted in permount at the FBI?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: At some point, you discovered that there were more hairs, four more?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry. Did Mr. Deedrick point out--direct your attention to the hairs that were mounted from the ski cap when you were at the FBI?
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Calls for hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. CLARK: You can answer.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you disagree with any of his findings?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Did you add anything to the bindles created for the items--the hair and trace items from the ski cap after you finished collecting them from the ski cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And were the bindles always kept closed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: And were they closed immediately after putting hair and trace into them that was collected directly from the ski cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: They weren't left open lying around anywhere?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: All right. After you completed your examination of the bindles of hair and fiber from the ski cap, what did you do with those bindles?
MS. BROCKBANK: I replaced them back into the coin envelope marked "From the exterior of the ski cap" and returned that coin envelope into the analyzed evidence envelope, placed that into my locker. It remain in my locked evidence locker whenever I was not performing some sort of examination on those items.
MS. CLARK: And as of this point--now, you were the one who collected the exemplar from the Defendant, is that correct, you took his hair samples?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Had that been done as of this date, June 23rd?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, it had not.
MS. CLARK: Now, on June 24th, as of that date, you had removed hair and trace from what items?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, as of that date, I had removed hair and trace from the two gloves, items 9 and 37, and the two hats, items 37 and--I mean 27 and 38.
MS. CLARK: And did you release the bindles of hair and fiber that you recovered from those items contained in their coin envelopes and in the analyzed evidence envelopes to someone?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And who was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I released all of that to Michelle Kestler who is--
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
MS. BROCKBANK: I was going to say who is our lab director currently.
MS. CLARK: And was that for the purpose of allowing the Defense to view the evidence?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: And when was it returned to you?
MS. BROCKBANK: I released the evidence to her at around 10:30 in the morning, and she returned them to me at about 1:15.
MS. CLARK: Were you present for that viewing by the Defense?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I was not.
MS. CLARK: All right. On June 27th, did you do some further examination of the hair and trace removed from the blue knit ski cap, item no. 38?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what procedure did you follow to prepare for that examination?
MS. BROCKBANK: The same procedure all along. You know, I cover my bench with white paper, put on clean gloves, and then I mounted some of these hairs in permount. And--actually, the hairs I mounted were the hairs that did not have roots on them. I mounted those in permount and I did not mount any hairs that had roots. They were left in the bindles.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And again, that was for the purpose of any possible DNA testing that might be conducted?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct. And additionally, I made notations on the bindles themselves as to how many hairs I mounted or removed from that bindle, and those notations are--were made directly on the bindles.
MS. CLARK: All right. Can you explain the mounting process that you followed with respect to the use of permount instead of water? What is permount anyway?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, it's a mounting media. I don't know the exact chemical composition of it.
MS. CLARK: Does it--does it hurt the hair, damage it or alter it in any way?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. It enables someone to look at a hair under the microscope and actually view the internal structures and characteristics of that hair. It's a semi-permanent mounting media unlike water. Water will eventually evaporate and, you know, all you're left with is a cover slip and your hairs. Permount will dry and harden and basically fix those hairs between the cover slip and the slide. If you touch the cover slip, it's not going to go sliding off as if you had it in water. You know, you can just slide the cover slip right off.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And so when you mount a hair in permount on a slide, you cover it with the cover slip. Can the hair get out from under by itself?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And can any other hairs get stuck up under the cover slip?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, during the mounting process, you know, you--the media is wet. So you're dealing with a wet media, and you place the hair on the slide, cover it with a cover slip. From that point on, nothing else is going to crawl underneath it that I am aware of.
MS. CLARK: And so you mounted the hairs--the hairs that you've earlier recovered--well, I shouldn't just say hairs--maybe hairs and fibers that you earlier discovered from the ski cap on the date of June 27th?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I mounted--and I think it was just hairs on that day.
MS. CLARK: How many?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe I mounted 31, and one of those hairs, as it turns out, was an animal hair, not a human hair. So 30 human hairs.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: How many actual slides did you create?
MS. BROCKBANK: Slides. I created 11 slides for all of the hairs I mounted from the exterior and interior surfaces of item 38, and there were obviously more than one hair on each slide to account for those 31 hairs.
MS. CLARK: I was just going to ask you. Is that okay, to mount more than one hair on a slide?
MS. BROCKBANK: Oh, yeah. That's fine.
MS. CLARK: Oh, I see. Okay.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
MS. CLARK: May I approach, your Honor?
MS. CLARK: I'd like to show you these photographs and have you tell me if these are photographs of the slide mailers and slides that you created from the hair and fiber taken from the blue knit ski cap.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they are.
MS. CLARK: Okay. I'm going to ask--are there more there than actually just from the blue knit ski cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, there are.
MS. CLARK: So you made slides from hair and debris recovered from other items as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did. The other hat specifically.
MS. CLARK: The plaid cap from the Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I have here a photograph of six slide mailers, ask that it be marked People's--
THE COURT: 446.
MS. CLARK: 446. Thank you.
(Peo's 446 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: All right. Showing you 446, what are those?
MS. BROCKBANK: Those are the cardboard slide mailers. I think I briefly described earlier that we place those glass slides with hairs mounted on them into to protect the slides.
MS. CLARK: And 446-A, your Honor, will be the back of those.
THE COURT: All right. 446-A.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
(Peo's 446-A for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: And is that the--are those the backs of those slide mailers in 446?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And now if I may, 446-B.
THE COURT: 446-B.
MS. CLARK: Slides themselves.
(Peo's 446-B for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: All right. Are those the slides that you created for the hair and fiber that you recovered that you've just described from the blue knit cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And also, do we see something, another slide in there that was created for hair and fiber recovered from the cap found in the Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. The monitor is a little blurry or I could point out which slide exactly. They're all marked with item numbers on them, which would identify which item they came from.
MS. CLARK: Okay. We're going to zoom in for you.
MS. BROCKBANK: And it would be on the white part, not the black. There you go.
MS. CLARK: Is that as good as we can do? That's it.
MS. CLARK: Okay. I'm going to give it to you--
MS. CLARK: Do you want to take a break, your Honor? Okay. I'm going to let you look at it at the break, and tell us when you come back.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take our first afternoon recess. Please remember all my admonitions to you. And we'll be in recess for 15 minutes. Let me see counsel at the sidebar with the court reporter, please.
(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)
THE COURT: All right. Three things. Where's Neufeld's money?
MR. COCHRAN: He was just telling me he didn't have any checks. I'm going to pay it. May I pay it now?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. COCHRAN: He doesn't have any checks or money. I'm paying it right now.
MS. CLARK: He must think he's Mr. Darden whipping out all that cash.
THE COURT: The second thing, I thought about the book, you know, this Grisham book. It's a work of fiction.
MR. COCHRAN: Judge, it may be a work of fiction, but would you allow us overnight to look at it, allow us--I have not read it, but I've personally talked to your Honor's assistant. It's a work of fiction, but if you can let him read it, then let me read it tonight.
THE COURT: I'll let you read it tonight.
MR. DARDEN: Can I add this on the book? You may recall earlier in the trial, when one of the jurors was reading Makes Me Want to Holler, which was a book about young African Americans who had gone to prison or suffered in a manner we wouldn't want to discuss obviously--but it is fiction.
MR. COCHRAN: Makes You Want to Holler isn't fiction.
THE COURT: I'll give--
MR. DARDEN: That book was deemed okay for the jurors.
THE COURT: I'll give you an opportunity to take a look at it over the evening hours.
MR. COCHRAN: I would like to read it, then talk about it.
THE COURT: You guys have guys going in and out of the courtroom all the time letting the swinging doors swing. That's not protocol. You know, grab the doors.
MR. COCHRAN: You guys.
MR. DARDEN: If you let us use the telephone.
THE COURT: No. I mean both of you guys.
(Recess.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. All parties are again present. Counsel, I had one of my law clerks read the book that we asked one of the jurors--two of the jurors to surrender to us for the moment, and I have a one-page synopsis of the offending pages, which might help you in your review this evening.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very kindly, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Anything else before we invite the jurors to join us?
MS. CLARK: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Let's have the jurors, please, Deputy Magnera. What's so amusing?
MR. DARDEN: Good book.
THE COURT: See, I have to hire people to read my books for me.
(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, yesterday, I asked Mrs. Robertson to collect a book that two of you were reading because it was brought to my attention that there might be a problem. The attorneys have asked for the opportunity just to read the book over the evening hours to see if there's still a problem, and I'll get back to you on that. Okay? All right. Miss Brockbank, would you resume the witness stand, please. All right. Good afternoon again, Miss Brockbank. You are reminded you are still under oath. And, Miss Clark, you may continue with your direct examination.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor. Good afternoon.
MS. CLARK: Okay. We left off with the slides that you created from the hair and trace you recovered from item no. 38, the ski cap.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And 446-B on your monitor. A little tired?
MS. BROCKBANK: Sorry.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Can you tell us which of the slides are the ones that contain the hair and fiber from the ski cap, no. 38?
MS. BROCKBANK: The top row of six slides, all of those, and on the bottom row, the first four from left to right, and then the last two from left to right in the lower right-hand corner of the screen, those two were from the other cap, item no. 27.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And you said you made 11 slides, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And what did you package the slides in?
MS. BROCKBANK: I packaged the 11 slides in a single slide mailer. It happens to be a blue plastic slide mailer, and that's in the lower right-hand corner of this overhead.
MS. CLARK: All right. And for the record, your Honor, she's now looking at the photograph that comes from the board no. 436 for item no. 113.
THE COURT: Yes. This is the blue small slide carrier that she referred to earlier.
MS. CLARK: Correct. Thank you, your Honor.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, when you mounted those hairs onto the slide, those were hairs that you recovered--you took out of the bindles you had created on a previous day, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: I took them out of the bindles at the time that I mounted them.
MS. CLARK: Right.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah.
MS. CLARK: But the bindles--the items you had collected in the bindles you had collected on the 21st?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. 21st and 23rd.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And you had notations on some of those bindles as to how many hairs were contained in them?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: When you took them out and mounted them on the slides, I believe you indicated to us that was in permount, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: So this time, the hairs remained on the slides; is that right?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Did you change the number reflected on the bindle that you had initially put on there for the number of hairs it contained when you put them on the slides?
MS. BROCKBANK: I made a notation on each bindle that I mounted "X" number on--in permount, and for each bindle, you know, that "X" was different.
MS. CLARK: Right. Did you make that notation on the bindles or in your notes?
MS. BROCKBANK: On the bindles.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did you indicate that--did you change the number of hairs that should be found inside the bindle when you did that?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't believe I changed the number. I just made a note that so many hairs from that total number were mounted in permount.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So that if the bindle you initially had say had--there was one bindle we showed on the board that says "Seven blond hairs," for example?
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: If you took--that was put on there when you first collected that from the cap, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: That was put on in one of the water exams, when I performed one of the water exams.
MS. CLARK: And then on the date--on this date, on the 27th, when you actually mounted the hairs from that bindle onto slides in permount where they would stay--
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: --did you change that number, the seven blond hairs to show zero blond hairs or however many were remaining in the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. I believe I noted on that particular one that all hairs were mounted in permount.
MS. CLARK: So then when you--did you still maintain the bindle itself though?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Even though it was empty?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: So that when that particular bindle that said "Seven blond hairs" from the ski cap were mounted on to permount and you carried everything to the FBI, that particular bindle would be empty?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it would.
MS. CLARK: And that bindle, did it go to the outside of the cap or the inside?
MS. BROCKBANK: The one containing the seven light colored hairs were from the exterior.
MS. CLARK: All right. Was there also--for the exterior of the cap, was there one bindle marked four dark brown to black hairs?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, there was.
MS. CLARK: And did you also mount some of those hairs?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Did you change the number of hairs that you put on the bindle when they were originally counted by you?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. Again, I didn't change the number. I just made a notation on the bindle that in that case, I believe three hairs were mounted in permount, one with the root still remained in the bindle.
MS. CLARK: Okay. All right. So for the hairs that were no longer in the bindle that had been counted and noted on the bindle, they were now preserved permanently in slides?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: The slides you've identified?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: After completing the mounting of the hair and fiber recovered from the exterior of the cap on slides and permount, did you examine hairs from the interior of the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And before you did that, did you change paper or gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Changed paper and gloves.
MS. CLARK: Same thing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Uh-huh.
MS. CLARK: Is that yes?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And before doing that, before changing paper and gloves, did you examine the paper to see if there was any remaining hair or trace on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you examine your gloves to see if there was any remaining hair and trace on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you see any?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: With respect to the interior of the cap, after you examined the hairs--well, actually before. What did you do with the bindle that went to the interior of the cap hairs? Did you mount any of those?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Tell us what you did.
MS. BROCKBANK: I--working at a work station where we have that stereomicroscope, the low-power microscope, I had a piece of white paper underneath the microscope. I removed the bindle from the interior of the cap, from the paper--I removed the paper bindle from the coin envelope, opened the bindle under the microscope and observed the hairs, separating those without roots from those with roots and I mounted the hairs that did not have roots permanently in permount.
MS. CLARK: Now, how many slides did you mount from the exterior trace and fiber and hair from the cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, from the exterior, there were a total of seven that were mounted on slides by me.
MS. CLARK: And how many slides were created?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, let me just look here. Exterior--from the exterior, there were five slides.
MS. CLARK: And from the interior?
MS. BROCKBANK: Six slides.
MS. CLARK: After you completed the mounting--again, the mounting process, was is the same as you earlier described to us from the exterior?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: After you completed the mounting of the six slides where the hairs were recovered from the interior of the cap, did you examine hairs from the--that you recovered from the cap that you found in the Bronco, item no. 27?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And before you did so, was it the same preparations?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Clean paper, clean gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And you're wearing a white lab coat this whole time?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: By the time--now, when you were--when you went to open the bindle containing the hair and fiber recovered from the cap from the Bronco, where was--where were the slides and the bindles that you had earlier been working with regarding the ski cap, item no. 38?
MS. BROCKBANK: The bindles were--had already been placed back into the coin envelope and the coin envelope back into the analyzed evidence envelope, clean paper was placed down and then item 20--well, the hairs that were removed from the other cap, item 27, that coin envelope was taken out, opened up on that white paper, and the paper bindle was removed and then I mounted hairs--the hairs without roots from that paper bindle in the same manner looking at them under the stereoscope, mounting those without the roots on two slides.
MS. CLARK: And those were the slides you've earlier identified on 446-B?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, when you got to--strike that. All right. When you completed the mounting on June the 27th, what did you do with the remaining analyzed evidence envelope containing the coin envelopes which contained the bindles and all the slides that you created? Where did you put all that stuff?
MS. BROCKBANK: I again replaced everything back into my evidence locker and locked it.
MS. CLARK: And the slides, how were they kept?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, we actually have a tray, a cardboard tray with little cutouts the shape of slides in this tray. It's about--about the size of a legal--a legal pad of paper, you know, about this size (Indicating).
MS. CLARK: 8-1/2 by 14?
MS. BROCKBANK: It's about legal size. Yes. 8-1/2 by 14. That's about right. And it holds 20 slides. And again, it has little cutouts to hold slides, and I had them all in one of those.
MS. CLARK: And was that kept locked in your locker as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And is that--is that slide tray covered in some manner?
MS. BROCKBANK: It's--it has--it has the cutouts for the slides. There's two rows of 10 and then it has two little flaps that fold over and cover those surfaces.
MS. CLARK: On June 29th, did you book all of these items of hair and trace recovered from the gloves and the cap and the ski hat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Let me just check. Yes, I did. That's when I acquired those property numbers, 110 through 113, and I booked them and basically checked them right back out again because I was still working on them a little bit.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So when you booked them, what actually physically happened?
MS. BROCKBANK: What physically happened is that I basically assigned a number, those numbers 110 through 113 to the hairs and fibers removed from those four items, 9, 27, 37 and 38, and I write a report, a property report, which lists each of those items and what they're removed from and turn that into our evidence control unit. They list these as next in order as far as booked evidence. And I have the analyzed evidence envelope. At that point, they put a bar code on that analyzed evidence envelope. And basically, since I wanted it back, they scan it in with a bar code reader and they scan it right back out to me.
MS. CLARK: So you just stood there while they did that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yeah. Yes. Yes.
MS. CLARK: Then you took it back with you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: To where?
MS. BROCKBANK: To the trace unit and again secured it in my evidence locker.
MS. CLARK: Now, on June 30th, did you examine the hairs and fibers that you had removed from the Bundy and Rockingham gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Can you repeat that? I'm sorry.
MS. CLARK: The next day, on June the 30th, did you take out the envelopes that contained--the coin envelopes that contained the bindles holding the hairs and fibers from the Bundy and Rockingham gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Now, this is not the gloves themselves, correct? You didn't touch them?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct. I didn't.
MS. CLARK: And how is it--what was the manner in which you examined the hair and fiber recovered from the gloves on that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: On that day, I was back to doing water mounts again, and I mounted them in water and made observations on what I observed and wrote a report to that effect.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, how did you--did you examine each bindle separately?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did you change paper, the paper underneath the scope between each examination?
MS. BROCKBANK: I changed the paper underneath and I changed my gloves in between each item.
MS. CLARK: For each bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Each bindle.
MS. CLARK: And examined the paper and your gloves after the examination of each bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And put down new paper and new gloves before examining the next bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you completed your examination of the contents of the bindle, did you place it back into that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did you fold it up and close it in some manner?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I folded the bindle in that trifold method that I described earlier and then placed the bindle back into the coin envelope.
MS. CLARK: And did you close the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did. Just again folding over the top flap.
MS. CLARK: And did you do that--did you close everything up in that manner before moving on to the next bindle in each instance?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Were any of the hairs from the gloves permanently mounted by you in permount?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, they were not.
MS. CLARK: So all of them that were in bindles remained in bindles?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, on--and then did you lock it back up in your locker?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: On July 12, 1994, did you collect the exemplar, that is a hair sample from the Defendant?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Can you tell us exactly what it was you did?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Umm, basically collecting an exemplar, what we call an exemplar or a representative hair sample from any person involves collecting hairs from all areas of that person's head. You don't simply go up to a person and yank a handful of hairs. It doesn't work that way. What an exemplar is is a representative sample. So if somebody was to yank a handful of hairs from my head right here (Indicating), they would be missing a whole lot of really long hairs that are in the back. So that's the whole idea of getting a representative sample. You want to get hairs from the front of the head, top of the head, the back of the head and both sides so you cover all the different hair types that might be on a person's head. Different people, their hair may show a lot of variation. So it's really important to get a representative sample. What I did with Mr. Simpson is just that. He was seated at a table, and I laid out a large white paper bindle in front of him, and using a comb, I combed through his hair, getting a lot of loose hairs from all areas of his head, those areas that I named, the front, the top, the back and both sides, and also gently just pulling, you know, grasping some hairs between my fingers and pulling, getting some hairs that way also. It's important in a representative sample that you do get the roots as well. So we don't cut hair samples. We do pull them and comb them. And once I collected an adequate sample, I folded that paper bindle, observing it, making sure there was nothing on the bindle on the exterior, anything that might get inside, folded it up, placed it into a--a--kind of like a coin envelope, but a little larger, just a manila envelope along with the comb that I used and then I sealed that envelope. Actually I didn't seal it at that time. I sealed it a little bit later, but placed that into an analyzed evidence envelope that I had and went back to the lab.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, prior to the date of July the 12th, you did not--you had not collected any hairs from the head of Mr. Simpson, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: And as of June the 12th, had you already collected the hair and the trace and the fiber from the ski cap, the cap found in the Bronco and both gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And so--and those--that hair and fiber was already sealed up and locked away in your locker at the time you went to collect the Defendant's hairs on July the 12th?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: I show you a photograph that is already on the chain board marked 436 for item no. 122. All right. Do you recognize that item?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes. On the left is the analyzed evidence envelope that I placed this item into. In the middle is that laboratory envelope I was kind of having trouble describing, and on the far right in the lower left or lower right corner is that large paper bindle that I described, and that actually contains the hairs that I removed from his head.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And then that bindle was placed into the laboratory envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: By you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you seal the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: You just folded it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And the laboratory envelope that you placed the bindle into, how did you close that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, at the time I collected it, I just folded over the flap and placed it into the analyzed evidence envelope that I was carrying and took it back to the laboratory and--
MS. CLARK: What happened then?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, I--I was working--should I explain a little? I felt it necessary to count the hairs because of the court order that I was working under had a ceiling number of the number of hairs I was supposed to collect. So I took everything back to the laboratory and under a stereomicroscope, laid out white paper, opened up the bindle and counted the hairs that were in this bindle. They totaled 93. And I closed the bindle back up, replaced it into the laboratory envelope. I then sealed that envelope, placed that into the analyzed evidence envelope and I sealed that envelope and I made the notations--before placing everything, I made notations on the envelopes as to the item number, which was 122. And then once it was sealed, I took it to our evidence control unit, wrote a report and booked it into property, and then it was stored in the evidence control unit from that point on.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Can we zoom in on the analyzed evidence envelope? All right. And there on the top portion of the envelope, you see the identifying information you've just described for us with the item no. 122?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And your name?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Can we drop down? Move over. All right. In the lower right-hand corner of the laboratory envelope, do you see a date and time?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: What does that indicate to you?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's the date and time that I placed on the envelope at the time I collected the sample from Mr. Simpson, 7-12-94, and the time, 9:50 A.M.
MS. CLARK: Now, when you took the--took the item--took the sample back to your lab for the purpose of counting the hairs, did you make sure to go into a clean area?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Was that done in your trace unit?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you have gloves on?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Were they clean?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Were you wearing a lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And was there clean paper down?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Were there any other items of evidence from this case around at the time that you did that?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Were there any other items of hair or trace that had already been collected from the evidence items in this case at the time that you did that?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: That was the only item you were looking at?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: That was present?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
THE COURT: Are these your usual precautions?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they are.
MS. CLARK: Now, after you had the--both the laboratory envelope and the analyzed evidence envelope sealed, okay, you said you booked it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You booked it immediately the same day?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And where did you book it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Into our evidence control unit.
MS. CLARK: So did this evidence, item 122, ever go into your locker?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. Never did.
MS. CLARK: And did you ever open that sealed package before going to the FBI in August?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Did you examine any other items of evidence pertaining to this case on that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't believe so. Let me just do a quick check here.
MS. CLARK: You're referring to your notes to refresh your memory?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I am.
MS. CLARK: All right.
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: This was the only thing you did on this case that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. On July 22nd, did you examine the piece of carpet marked as item no. 33?
MR. BLASIER: On what date?
MS. CLARK: July 22nd.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And how was that item packaged?
MS. BROCKBANK: It was--as I first observed it, it was wrapped in white paper and sealed with that brown tape.
MS. CLARK: And I believe you earlier indicated to us it was completely covered and enclosed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: How did you open it that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I cut--cut the packaging material and removed it from inside over a clean piece of white paper wearing gloves.
MS. CLARK: Okay. You read my mind. And what did you do with it? What kind of examination did you perform?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I was asked to look at it with two other people, Collin Yamauchi and John Taggert, our lab photographer, and tried to assist them--well, mostly assist John in photographing a bloody area on that carpet that was--well, it was there. They wanted it documented using different light sources to see if they could enhance what appeared to be a print area in blood using various light sources.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Showing you again photograph no. 441 that was previously marked, if you could tell us if you see the area--we've already printed this out. Is this the area you've talking about that we've previously circled and initialed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. In the upper left-hand corner of just where the rubber mat area meets the carpet in that area was a what appeared to be like a bloody print of some sort.
MS. CLARK: All right. And then was it photographed in your presence?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: And then after that, what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: Repackaged it, put it back into the packaging that we had removed it from, taped up the openings that we had made in the package and then returned it to the box in the serology freezer which we had taken it out of.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And when you wrapped it up again, was it completely enclosed in the paper and the tape?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Was any portion of the carpet showing through?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Was it flat or was it rolled up?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe it was--it was rolled like--it seems like it was kind of a burrito, kind of rolled over twice, you know, the two ends were kind of rolled over. It was not flat, but I don't remember if it was like in half like a taco or kind of three times like a burrito. Bad analogy. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: No. But we do get the picture though.
MS. BROCKBANK: Good analogy then.
MS. CLARK: Okay. When it was folded that way, was it folded so that the carpet side was on the inside or on the outside?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the carpet was on the inside.
MS. CLARK: And then it was returned to the box and the freezer?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you examine any of the item--any of the bindles containing hair and trace that were in your locker on that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: Were any of the other items of evidence taken out of their respective bags or packaging in the presence of that piece of carpet?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, they were not.
MS. CLARK: And did you even open any of the other--any of the bindles you had created containing hair and trace on that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: Now, directing your attention to July 27th, on that date, did you examine clothing that had been recovered from the bodies of Ronald Goldman and Nicole Brown?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And was that the first time you had ever seen the clothing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was.
MS. CLARK: And where did you get it from that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: It was taken from the serology freezer. It had been stored there in a box, and we--Collin and I together examined these items in the serology lab, not in the trace lab.
MS. CLARK: And why is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, probably a few reasons, but mainly because the box had been stored in serology. They had an empty work bench and that's where we worked. But in addition, if possible, it's nice to examine clothing items from a victim in a separate--completely separate location than say items found at a crime scene or--I think that's what I want to say.
MS. CLARK: Separate in a separate room from items that might be associated with the suspect?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That's what I wanted to say.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, how were the--how were the items of clothing for Ronald Goldman and Nicole Brown packaged when you recovered them from the serology freezer?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, each item of clothing was individually packaged in a paper bag which had been folded over and taped closed, and each of those paper bags was inside of a larger box marked to contain those items.
MS. CLARK: And were they, all of the individual bags taped shut?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: Which item, if you know, did you begin by examining?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I examined--excuse me--item no. 79, which are the blue jeans from Ronald Goldman. I examined those first.
MS. CLARK: All right. And before you began the examination, was it the usual preparations, clean paper, clean gloves, lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what method did you use to examine the jeans of Ronald Goldman for hair and trace evidence?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I began by the same method that I had used for the other items picking off what I could observe, but I also in this case used a large spatula to actually scrape the items down at least for the blue jeans and for an item I examined later, the shirt, because they were very heavily soiled with debris, be it blood, dirt, plant debris and hairs and fibers. They were very heavily soiled with those items. So I used the scraping method in addition to that picking off method.
MS. CLARK: And when you say scraping, how is that; with your hand again?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, no. In this case, I used a stainless steel spatula. It's just like a spatula you might use in your kitchen, a large flat blade about 10, 12 inches long with a wooden handle on the end. It's a little larger than something you might use in your kitchen really, but the item is held in one hand. I mean that's our method. We don't have a real fancy setup, but we hold it in one hand and then scrape it, and the scrapings will fall down on the white paper that we've set up underneath. And then when we're done with that scraping process, we fold it like I did before, you know, get that little funnel effect, tap the sides so all the debris falls down into one localized area to make it a little simpler to put into that paper bindle.
MS. CLARK: And that was the procedure you used for the jeans?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: I'm going to show you a photograph that has been placed onto the chain board marked People's 436 for item no. 79 and ask you if you recognize the item shown in that photograph as the jeans you just described for Ronald Goldman.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. And after you--and did you package it all into a bindle for--one bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. All in one bindle.
MS. CLARK: Okay. After you created the bindle, did you examine the paper underneath to make sure there was no residual hair and trace or soil?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Yes. And there was none.
MS. CLARK: And your gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you fold up the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And make some notation on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Do you recall what item number you gave?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, that became item no. 161.
MS. CLARK: All right.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: Okay. And what did you do with the bindle after you made--after you made notations on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Placed it in an envelope and made notations on that as well.
MS. CLARK: A coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe it was a coin envelope, and then placed that into an analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, the notations you made on this bindle for the hair and trace debris from the jeans, do you know what--do you currently recall what those notations were?
MS. BROCKBANK: Probably just hairs, fibers, debris removed from jeans, item no. 79, by me, S.A.B., on that date.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: Something to that effect. It's my general routine.
MS. CLARK: And did you make similar notations on the coin envelope into which you placed that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you put any identifying numbers on the coin envelope or the bindle or both?
MS. BROCKBANK: Identifying numbers?
MS. CLARK: DR number, item number.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I put the DR number. Umm, I did not put the item number until later. I generally put the item number that I am booking it as, the new item number on the day that I actually do the booking. In this case, there were quite a number of people booking evidence at different times. So we had to kind of coordinate our efforts really well. So I--I would get a group of evidence together that I was processing, process the evidence and then I'd book say a group of evidence all in one day. And so I'd get a series of item numbers that were available on that particular day. And that didn't happen on the 27th. That happened sometime later.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Ultimately it got item no. 161?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And after you completed the examination, packaged up the bindle in the coin envelope and analyzed evidence envelope, did you change paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did you change gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then did you--what did you examine?
MS. BROCKBANK: I next examined item no. 80, which were two socks from Ronald Goldman.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And by what method?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, just the picking, picking off and gently scraping with my hands.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And did you collect all of that debris into a bindle as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did it get an item number eventually?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Item no. 162.
MS. CLARK: And after you completed the examination and collection of debris from the socks, did you examine the paper underneath?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Any hair or trace or residue on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: After I removed everything? No.
MS. CLARK: And did you check your gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Was there anything on them?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Did you change paper and gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And then what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I then examined the shirt, item no. 81, which was the shirt from Ronald Goldman.
MS. CLARK: I'm going to show you what is no. 81 on the chain board marked People's 436 and ask you if this is the item you're referring to now as the shirt for Ronald Goldman.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And that's the item that you examined on July 27th?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Thank you. Now, did you cause this item to be photographed before you began collecting hair and trace from it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do in that regard?
MS. BROCKBANK: Basically laid it out like you saw it in that photograph on a piece of white paper and had the photographer, John Taggert, photograph that item. And I believe he did close-ups of the tags as well. My normal routine on clothing items, I'll have him do an overall photo of the item and then a close-up of the tag if there is a tag on that item.
MS. CLARK: Now, were you doing this alone or was someone helping you?
MS. BROCKBANK: I was working in concert with Collin Yamauchi. I removed trace evidence from each of these items and then Collin checked them for body fluids.
MS. CLARK: And what was Collin wearing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, similar to myself. He was wearing a lab coat and he had gloved hands.
MS. CLARK: A white lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Latex gloves like yours?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And was he changing gloves between each item?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, he was.
MS. CLARK: Now, what method of collection did you use for the shirt of Ronald Goldman?
MS. BROCKBANK: Again, the picking, picking off method and in addition to that scraping with that spatula which I described which I had cleaned in between samples.
MS. CLARK: How?
MS. BROCKBANK: With ethanol, which we have in little squirt bottles basically in the lab. I squirted it down over a sink because there was a little bit of maybe like blood and dirt debris on it and cleaned that off, made sure there were no hairs or fibers or any other debris remaining before I used it on the shirt.
MS. CLARK: So you made sure that that spatula was both sterilized and cleaned of any hair and fiber before you used it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then what--by what method did you begin the examination of the shirt for hair and fiber? What was the first method you used?
MS. BROCKBANK: The picking-off method.
MS. CLARK: And then after that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Then the spatula scraping.
MS. CLARK: Any other method used?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: And then when the debris fell onto the paper underneath the shirt, what did you do?
MS. BROCKBANK: Again, creasing the paper, tapping on the sides to get that funnel effect, got all of the debris in one localized area, placed that in a paper bindle. The paper bindle then went into a coin envelope after making some notations on it and then the coin envelope went into an analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: Now, with respect to the item number for this particular item, do you have--do you have a current recollection of what that is?
MS. BROCKBANK: The debris that was removed from the shirt?
MS. CLARK: Yes.
MS. BROCKBANK: Was booked as item no. 163.
MS. CLARK: Showing you the item no. 163 from the chain board, People's 436, can you tell us if you recognize what's in this photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Let's see. Up--well, up above, there appears to be a box, but off to the left is a--the coin envelope which I've marked "163, S.A.B.," with the DR number. There it is. And to the right of that and down is the paper bindle, which again is marked with the DR number, the item number, my initials, S.A.B., and then notation "Hairs, fibers, debris removed from shirt, item no. 81 by S.A.B. on 7-27-94 at 1350 hours." That's military time.
MS. CLARK: Military time. And I also see in the upper right-hand corner of this bindle that's now being focused on Q23 and looks like "DWD"?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what is that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Those are notations placed on there by Doug Deedrick of the FBI lab.
MS. CLARK: And did he place that notation on there in your presence?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, he did.
MS. CLARK: If we could move up again?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's a bindle that he apparently prepared. I didn't prepare that one.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MR. BLASIER: Objection. Move to strike. No foundation.
THE COURT: Yes. That will be stricken.
MS. CLARK: Actually just the fact that she didn't prepare it.
THE COURT: Yes. That will remain.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
MS. CLARK: Now, backing up, so the bindle you prepared is the bottom bindle, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: And the coin envelope as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And that is in fact the bindle that--that lower bindle is in fact the bindle into which you placed all of the debris from the shirt of Ronald Goldman?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: All right. After you collected everything into the bindle, folded it up and put it into the coin envelope, did you close the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I folded over the flap and closed it, placed that into the analyzed evidence envelope, set it aside. Sorry.
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry. It's getting late. Then did Collin take over?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you see what he did?
MS. BROCKBANK: I was standing by. I wasn't, you know, hanging on every little movement that he made, but he examined it for body fluids. I don't know if he--he may have cut out a sample. I'm not sure.
MS. CLARK: When he--when he was done, were you still there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then what?
MS. BROCKBANK: We both initialed the tag on the shirt. Both put our initials on it, repackaged it in the bag that it had come out of, refolded the bag, taped it closed and initialed that as well.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do with the coin envelope containing the bindle that contained the hair and debris from the shirt of Ron Goldman?
MS. BROCKBANK: That was placed in an analyzed evidence envelope and set aside.
MS. CLARK: Now, where was the Defendant's hair sample that you had taken earlier on July 12th at this time?
MS. BROCKBANK: That was still in our property unit, the evidence control unit.
MS. CLARK: And where was that in relation to where you were with Mr. Yamauchi when you were collecting the hair and fiber from Ron Goldman's shirt?
MS. BROCKBANK: It's actually outside the lab. It's part of the lab complex itself, but it's--the serology unit is a separate room within a large building, and the evidence control unit is another room within that large building, and it's quite a--you know, if you walked at a fast pace, maybe a 30-second walk away or a minute walk away, but it's a little ways.
MS. CLARK: All right. What was the next item you examined?
MS. BROCKBANK: The next item examined was the dress from Nicole, which was item no. 86.
MS. CLARK: And did you make the usual preparations before your exam?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Clean everything?
MS. BROCKBANK: Clean paper, clean gloves.
THE COURT: Spatula?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Should we throw that one in? All right. And what method did you use for the removal of hair and trace from Miss Brown's dress?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the picking-off method and then gently scraping with my hand.
MS. CLARK: Before you began that, did you cause the dress to be photographed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: I'm showing you here a dress that comes from the photograph on the chain board that's People's 436. This is for item no. 86. Can you tell us if you recognize what you see here?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That's the dress, item no. 86.
MS. CLARK: That you examined?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I'm informed that the photograph that's now up on the elmo is not exactly in the same angle as the one on the chain board.
So I'm going to ask the witness a few more questions. (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MR. BLASIER: Your Honor, we'll stipulate it's the same dress.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel.
MS. CLARK: Can you step down then and make sure that the item that's contained on the chain board is in fact the same dress that we're talking about, the one for Nicole Brown?
THE COURT: They just stipulated to that, counsel.
MS. CLARK: Oh, I thought they just did for that photograph. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: No.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
MS. CLARK: All right. And you indicated I think you used the picking method?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You didn't use a spatula?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Why not?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the dress was not heavily soiled like Ron Goldman's clothes were, so I didn't find it necessary to use a spatula on that.
MS. CLARK: And did you create a bindle for the hair and trace and debris from this dress as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Did you examine the paper underneath when you were done and your gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Any residue left?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Did you make some notations on the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: What was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe it was just, you know, "Hairs, fibers, debris removed from dress, item no. 86, by S.A.B. on 7-27-94" at a certain date or time I mean.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, the item we're showing you now on the elmo had the no. 164 in it. It's the photograph taken from the chain board, People's 436 for item no. 164. And you see a coin envelope with writing on it. Is that your writing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And is that the writing on the coin envelope that contained the bindle that contained the debris from Nicole's dress?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And that indicates again the date and your collection and the time?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it does.
MS. CLARK: And is that the item number that you gave the debris from Nicole's dress?
MS. BROCKBANK: Item no. 164. Yes.
MS. CLARK: And do you see the coin envelope that you created for this item, the coin--I'm sorry--the bindle that you packaged the debris in?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. The bindle is to the right and that middle--there it is, marked "Q24 DWD" in this photograph.
MS. CLARK: And is that writing created by you?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Who is it created by?
MS. BROCKBANK: Doug Deedrick of the FBI.
MS. CLARK: In your presence?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I have a photograph, your Honor, ask that it be marked People's--
THE COURT: 447? 447.
MS. CLARK: 447? Thank you, your Honor.
(Peo's 447 for id = photograph)
MS. CLARK: Showing you 447, Miss Brockbank, do you see there the coin envelope bearing item no. 164?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: Coin envelope. I'm sorry. I meant bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: I see a bindle there marked 164 also.
MS. CLARK: Thank you. Is that your writing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And is this the front side of the bindle that was created to contain the debris from Nicole's dress by you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Again, reflecting the date and time of collection?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. After you packaged that bindle into the coin envelope, the bindle was closed I take it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then when you put it in the coin envelope, did you close the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Again folding over the top and then placing that in an analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: Now, did you place it in its own analyzed evidence envelope or into the same one that contained the coin envelopes for Ron Goldman's clothing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the same one.
MS. CLARK: Now, were you concerned that some hair or debris from Ron Goldman's bindles might somehow get into the bindles for Nicole's dress?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Why not?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, the hair and debris is inside of a paper bindle which is then inside of a coin envelope, and I--it's never been my observation to see hairs or fibers come out of one bindle and envelope and into another envelope and then into another bindle. I've never seen that occurred. It's never been a problem.
MS. CLARK: How do you position the coin envelopes inside the analyzed evidence envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I position them standing up lengthwise and I insert them with the top at the top and the bottom at the bottom and into the analyzed evidence envelope which is also vertical and standing up.
MS. CLARK: And do you keep it in that condition, everything standing up, in your locker?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: When you have it on the bench next to you, if you're going to open the bindle say to examine them under the microscope, do you have it standing up as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: I may have it standing up or, you know, when I'm getting into it, it's going to be to the side. But when I set it aside, it's generally standing up.
MS. CLARK: And what did you examine after that?
MS. BROCKBANK: After the dress?
MS. CLARK: Yes.
MS. BROCKBANK: I examined the panties, item no. 87.
MS. CLARK: And same procedures as before, everything clean?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you observe any loose hair or fiber on the panties, item no. 87?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: So did you create any bindle for the item?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do with the panties after your exam?
MS. BROCKBANK: Collin examined them, Collin Yamauchi.
MS. CLARK: And then what?
MS. BROCKBANK: And then we, you know, put our initials on them, replaced the panties into the bag that they came from, folded the bag over, sealed it with a piece of tape and initialed that as well.
MS. CLARK: And were the items that you've just described examined in the order that you've just testified to?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, they were.
MS. CLARK: Did you make notes to keep track of what items were examined when?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Oh, when you opened up the victim--the box for the victim's clothing, did you see bags that were folded up and bundled together with twine?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Did you examine any of those bags?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Did you know what those bags were?
MS. BROCKBANK: I had a good idea what they were.
MS. CLARK: Which is?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the bags that the clothing items were originally packaged in by the Coroner, they had Coroner's tape on them and had markings, you know, "Dress, shirt." I don't remember all the exact markings that were on them, but they were marked accordingly.
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I have here a photograph that I ask be marked People's 448.
THE COURT: All right. 448.
(Peo's 448 for id = photograph)
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 448, Miss Brockbank, can you tell us if you recognize what's depicted in that photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: That appears to be those bundle of bags which are wrapped with twine and--
MS. CLARK: And is that--I'm sorry.
MS. BROCKBANK: That was photographed.
MS. CLARK: Is that the condition in which you found them inside the box?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And for what purpose were you examining--did you want to examine those bags?
MS. BROCKBANK: Just to see if there were any loose hairs or fibers inside those bags.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Did you find any?
MS. BROCKBANK: Inside one of the bags that was marked to contain shirt, "Shirt" was written on it, there were some loose fibers and some debris and a little piece of paper.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, when you were going through this collection process, can you tell us if you followed the same procedures as you had previously with respect to clean paper and gloves between each item?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. For the bags, the same procedure was followed. Each bag, new paper was laid down, new gloves were applied and they were examined just you know, visibly by looking in them for any loose hair, fibers, anything.
MS. CLARK: Now, you said that you saw that one of the bags did contain some debris?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Only one?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, when you examined the interior of the bags, did you just look in them or did you look in them and them tap them to see if there was anything inside?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I basically just looked into them.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And the only one that you saw any debris in was the one for the shirt?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: How many shirts were there in this case for the victims?
MS. BROCKBANK: Only one. Only one.
MS. CLARK: And how did you package--what did you do to remove the debris from the bag containing the shirt?
MS. BROCKBANK: I reached in and pulled the debris out and also tapped on the bag over a clean piece of paper.
MS. CLARK: And did you cause a bindle to be made to contain that debris?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did you make notations on the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Showing you the photograph that's on the chain board, People's 436 for item no. 165, do you recognize what's in that photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Umm, that is the coin envelope and the paper bindle.
MS. CLARK: That coin envelope, is that your writing on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And is that the coin envelope you created to contain the debris contained in the bindle for the bag, the original bag for Ron Goldman's shirt?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And at the bottom of that coin envelope, is that the description that you put down there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And to the right of that, do you see a bindle there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Is that the bindle that you created to contain the debris from the bag that originally contained Ron's shirt from the Coroner's office?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And is 165 the item number that you gave it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, you also indicated that you created a bindle for the debris recovered from Nicole's dress?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Showing you the photograph for item 221 from People's 436, can you tell us if you recognize what's shown in this photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: There's the analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: It's a white envelope, says "To be frozen"?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You put it in that envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And it has on it item no. 221?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Is that the only item contained in that envelope then?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And is that your writing on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And to the right of that is a coin envelope that also has the item no. 221?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And at the bottom, there's some description there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. "Hairs, fibers, debris removed from socks, interior and exterior, item no. 13 by S.A.B., 8-9-94, 13"--or I'm sorry--"1430 hours."
MS. CLARK: So that would have been the coin envelope for the socks, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
THE COURT: I thought we already talked about 160--
MS. CLARK: We already did 164.
THE COURT: Correct.
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, I think we have an error on the board.
THE COURT: 164--item was the coin envelope for item 86.
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: May I have a moment? (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: Okay. Let me direct your attention, Miss Brockbank, to the chain board. We have item no. 221 on the board, hair and trace and it shows no. 86 under that.
MS. BROCKBANK: Can I get up?
MS. CLARK: Go ahead.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it does.
MS. CLARK: But in fact, no. 86 is the item number for Nicole Brown's dress, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: And item no. 221, that was the debris recovered from the socks of Ron Goldman?
MS. BROCKBANK: Could you say that again?
MS. CLARK: Yes. Item no. 221 was the debris recovered from the socks of Ron Goldman?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. That's not correct.
MS. CLARK: What is it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Item no. 221 was removed from the socks--let me--
MS. CLARK: That's what I said.
MS. BROCKBANK: I believe it was item no. 13. Not from Ron Goldman.
MS. CLARK: Ah. From someone else's sock?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: So that should be no. 13 down here?
MS. BROCKBANK: Let me just verify that. Yes. Should be no. 13.
MS. CLARK: We jumped ahead then.
MS. CLARK: I've just corrected the board, your Honor. We will patch it--
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: --they put the incorrect item number.
MS. CLARK: All right. After you created the bindle--
MS. CLARK: You can take that down now. We haven't gotten there yet.
MS. CLARK: After you created the bindle for item no. 165, that's the debris recovered from the shirt of Ronald Goldman's bag, the original bag, did you--what did you do with the coin envelope into which you placed the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: I placed that coin envelope in the analyzed evidence envelopes that I had there in the lab.
MS. CLARK: And was that in the same analyzed evidence envelope as the debris recovered from the dress and the jeans of Ron Goldman?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do with that envelope after you completed your examinations on that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: With the analyzed evidence envelope?
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh.
MS. BROCKBANK: That was placed in my evidence locker and locked.
MS. CLARK: Okay. All right. Now, directing your attention to July 28th, 1994, on that date, did you examine a towel, item no. 91, a piece of plastic, item no. 93, and a shovel, item no. 92, that were recovered from the Defendant's Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: The towel, no. 91, and the plastic, no. 93, yes, but the shovel, no. I examined that on a later date.
MS. CLARK: Okay. All right. With respect to the towel and the piece of plastic, items no. 91 and 93, where were those being kept?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, they were in a box in our evidence control unit.
MS. CLARK: And how were they packaged?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, they were each individually wrapped in paper bags which were folded over and taped closed.
MS. CLARK: And were all items in the box folded over and taped closed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, all of the items that were bags in the box, yes.
MS. CLARK: Each of them individually bagged and taped closed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: With respect to the towel, can you tell us what preparations you made for the examination of that item?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, again, the lab bench was covered with clean white paper and clean gloves were applied, and then the item was removed from the paper bag over the white paper. Excuse me. I examined the towel, again using the picking method and gently scraping with my hand, my gloved hand, and collected that debris and placed it in a paper bindle, marked the bindle, placed that bindle in a coin envelope, placed that coin envelope in the analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: And ultimately, what item number did that get?
MS. BROCKBANK: That received item no. 166.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: Showing you the photograph that's contained on the People's chain board, People's 436, as item no. 166, do you recognize the handwriting?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: Is that yours?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Is that the coin envelope and the bindle that you created to contain the debris you collected from the towel found on the Defendant's Bronco that you marked as item no. 166?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. After you finished your examination of the towel for hair and trace, was Collin Yamauchi present?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, he was.
MS. CLARK: Did he do something after you were done?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: He examined it for body fluids.
MS. CLARK: Now, again, is Mr. Yamauchi wearing latex gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, he is.
MS. CLARK: Lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And the item, the towel that we're talking about on the next photograph, ask it be marked as People's 449.
THE COURT: 449.
(Peo's 449 for id = photograph)
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 449, is that the item no. 91, towel, that we've just described?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: After you were--after you'd completed your examination for hair and trace of that item, did you examine a piece of plastic recovered from the Defendant's Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what were your preparations for that examination?
MS. BROCKBANK: I changed the white paper that was covering the counter, applied new gloves and then I removed the plastic bag from the paper bag that it was contained inside of and examined it, collected some hairs and fibers from the outside of the bag and some kind of flaky blue debris that was on the inside of the bag.
MS. CLARK: And again, this was with--beginning with clean paper and clean gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And you created a bindle for the debris that you found on the plastic?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: I'm showing you the photograph that is on the People's chain board 436 marked as item no. 167. Do you recognize the handwriting on the coin envelope and bindle shown here?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do. That's my handwriting.
MS. CLARK: Is this the coin envelope and bindle that you created to contain the debris recovered from the plastic found in the Defendant's Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And after the collection, did you fold up the bindle and place it back into the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And all of the same precautions with respect to the examination of the towel and the plastic that you had taken earlier, looking in-between the examination of items on the paper for any residual debris?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And on the gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Nothing changed?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Can you zoom in on the bindle, please? Thank you, John.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And is all that information accurate, all that's contained on the bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And that's all your handwriting?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: When you completed the work there, did you place the bindle into the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did you place that into the analyzed evidence envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And where did you place the analyzed evidence envelope that contained the coin envelopes with the towel and the plastic respectively?
MS. BROCKBANK: Into my evidence storage locker.
MS. CLARK: And was it standing up as you described earlier?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. Now, you indicated that you examined the shovel--
MS. CLARK: Photograph of the plastic, your Honor, People's 449. 450?
THE COURT: 450.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
(Peo's 450 for id = photograph)
THE COURT: About 10 minutes.
MS. CLARK: 10 minutes?
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
MS. CLARK: All right. Do you recognize the item shown here in People's 450?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: And what is it?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's that piece of plastic, item no. 93.
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh. And is that the piece of plastic that you examined and collected debris that was later marked as 167--excuse me--yes, 167?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, you indicated that you had also on a separate date examined a shovel recovered from the Defendant's Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And when was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: That was on August 2nd of `94.
MS. CLARK: And in what condition was it packaged when you found it?
MS. BROCKBANK: It was individually wrapped in white paper and it was completely taped closed.
MS. CLARK: Completely covered?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And where did you perform your examination of that item?
MS. BROCKBANK: In the trace analysis unit, umm, on the floor, laid out white paper on the floor to cover it up and then opened up the package containing the shovel and examined it, and I removed some--some fibers and hairs from it.
MS. CLARK: Did you follow the same procedure as before?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, just picking--as far as gloves, I was wearing gloves and I picked the hairs and fibers off of the shovel. I didn't scrape it.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Clean gloves and paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: (No audible response.)
MS. CLARK: Yes?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you create a bindle for the debris you recovered from the shovel?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Showing you the photograph that pertains to item no. 169 on the People's chain board, 436, can you tell us if you recognize what's depicted in that photograph?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. The bindle that I placed hairs and fibers is in the lower right-hand corner and then the coin envelope is just to the right of the ruler.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And that's your writing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All the information on there is the information you put on there?
MS. BROCKBANK: All except for some of the initials that you see and the Q number.
MS. CLARK: And would that be Mr. Deedrick's number and his Q number?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. And someone else's initials up near the top of the screen right now. I don't know whose initials those are.
MS. CLARK: And did you then fold up the bindle and put it into a coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And the coin envelope that you see in this photograph, are these the notations you made on the coin envelope for the bindle for the debris from the shovel?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And where did you put the coin envelope for the shovel debris?
MS. BROCKBANK: That was placed in the analyzed evidence envelope and again stored in my evidence locker.
MS. CLARK: And was that the same analyzed evidence envelope that had the coin envelopes from the towel and plastic that's items 91 and 93?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it was. And actually, it wasn't stored in my evidence locker at that time. I wrote the property report for items 153 through 169 and booked all of that into our evidence control unit.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: So then from then on, it was stored there, not in my locker.
MS. CLARK: So on the date of August 2nd, all of these items, 153 through 169, were booked?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What about these coin envelopes that once you sent them to the evidence control unit for booking, you previously had those coin envelopes standing up in the analyzed evidence envelopes in your locker, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You couldn't be assured of that when it went to the evidence control unit, could you, that they would keep them standing up?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: So what did you do to make sure that the coin envelopes were kept secure?
MS. BROCKBANK: Each of the coin envelopes were taped closed by me. When I assigned the item numbers, I went back into each coin envelope for items 153 through 169, wrote the new item number on the bindles and on the coin envelopes, sealed the coin envelopes, closed with tape and initialed the tape and dated it, and then everything went back into the analyzed evidence envelope, and that was also sealed.
MS. CLARK: So before any of the items were taken out of your locker for booking, you seal the bindles and the coin envelopes and the analyzed evidence envelopes?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't seal the bindles. I seal the coin envelopes and the analyzed evidence envelope.
MS. CLARK: All right. And then on August 3rd, did you--as of August 3rd then, did you still have some items of hair and trace in the bindles that you had collected them in from the various items of evidence in your locker?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I don't believe so. Umm, I booked them into ECU on August 2nd.
MS. CLARK: What about the items 110 through 113? Those would be the hair and trace that you recovered from the gloves and the cap from the Bronco and the blue knit cap.
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, could I take just a minute to look at some notes?
(Brief pause.)
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, those were still in my locker and those were sealed up with tape and the analyzed evidence envelope sealed on August 3rd.
MS. CLARK: So on August 3rd, when you sealed up items 110 through 113, did you seal them in the same manner you've described for the other items?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then what did you do with them?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I was--well, I was preparing to go to the FBI laboratory and I--I don't remember if I replaced those in my evidence locker. I believe I did, just replaced them in my evidence locker at that time.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So you just sealed them, you sealed it up, but left it in your locker?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And directing your attention then to August 4th, on that date, did you examine the socks recovered from the Defendant's bedroom, item no. 13?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Before you performed this examination, did you put down clean paper?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: Put on clean gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Or actually no. Yes and no. Item 13 was being examined by Collin Yamauchi in the serology lab, and he observed some fibrous debris on these socks and thought I should come over to remove them. So he called me over in trace and asked me to come to the serology lab. It's a little walk around a corner. Again, these are--the labs are separate rooms in this large building. So I walked over to his lab, the serology lab, and they were already laid out on a table on a clean piece of paper that he had laid out, and I then put on gloves and removed the fibrous debris from the socks.
MS. CLARK: And was Collin wearing a white lab coat?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, he was.
MS. CLARK: And gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And you were too?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And you were using glean gloves?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What procedure did you use?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the picking-off method. I picked off all that I saw on the socks, placed them in a paper bindle and then the paper bindle was placed in a coin envelope, and that coin envelope was placed in an analyzed evidence envelope all by itself and booked on that same--or actually the report was written on that day, and I physically took it to the evidence control unit and booked it in on the following day, August 5th. Overnight, it was kept in my storage locker in the trace unit.
MS. CLARK: And locked?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. We're showing you the photograph that is on the board marked as People's 436. This is for item 221. Okay. This item, can you tell us first of all with respect to the bindle above the coin envelope.
MS. BROCKBANK: That's the bindle that I prepared for the debris I removed from the socks.
MS. CLARK: Is that your writing on it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And does it contain all the information you placed on it with respect to the--
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it does.
MS. CLARK: --date of collection and time and what you collected?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And is that the item number you assigned to the debris recovered from the Defendant's socks?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it us.
MS. CLARK: 221?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then below that, the coin envelope, is that the coin envelope into which you placed that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, it is.
MS. CLARK: And your writing on it, is that all correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And to the left of that coin envelope, a white frozen analysis envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: You caused it to be placed in that envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And that's all it contained?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And after you completed your examination of the socks, did you check your gloves and the paper for any residual debris?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do with that white envelope--well, strike that. You closed the bindle, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then when you put it in the coin envelope, did you close the coin envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And when you put--then you put it into the white envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you close that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Not until I had assigned an item number to everything in the bindle. I mean everything in the envelope.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Well, what was in that envelope?
MS. BROCKBANK: The hairs, fibers and debris removed from the socks, item 13.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: But in order to actually book it and assign a number, I have to go through a number of steps. I generally--in this case, I call the detectives, the investigating officers on the case every time I wanted to book some new evidence, and they would tell me what evidence item they left off with, and then I would verify that with our evidence control unit that that was indeed the last item booked and then I could use the next item in line. So I don't generally know the item I'm going to book it as when I'm collecting off of an item. So I found that out later, marked that information on the bindle, put the bindle in the envelope, sealed it with a piece of tape then, initialed that, placed that in the analyzed evidence envelope and then I sealed that as well. That was later that day.
MS. CLARK: Was it on that day or was it on the 5th?
MS. BROCKBANK: That was on that day, the 4th.
MS. CLARK: You sealed it all up?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And on the 5th, what did you do with that package?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, then I physically took it to the evidence control unit and booked it in as a piece of evidence and also checked it out on that same date.
MS. CLARK: So what was the purpose of booking it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, so that it was, you know, officially in the system as a booked piece of evidence, item numbers assigned to it. I was basically done with the item, but I needed to transport it to the FBI lab. So before I did that, I wanted to make sure there were item numbers assigned to all the items I was transporting.
THE COURT: All right. Would this be a good spot?
MS. CLARK: Can I have one minute? I was just going to mark two photographs.
THE COURT: All right.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: These are already marked, your Honor, as 126 and 127.
MS. CLARK: Showing you People's 126 up above and 127 below with the no. 13 in it, do those appear to be the socks that you examined for hair and trace on August the 4th?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take a brief 10-minute break. Please remember all my admonitions; and, ms. Brockbank, come back in 10 minutes. All right.
(Recess.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Back on the record. All parties are again present. Counsel, there was a scheduling matter for a motion we needed to address on--
MR. COCHRAN: Yes.
THE COURT: And my recollection, I think I mentioned to you that on Thursday we needed to break early because one of the jurors has a medical appointment and I don't recollect what time I told you.
MR. COCHRAN: I'm not sure you told us the time.
MR. BAILEY: You said three o'clock, your Honor.
THE COURT: How about three o'clock Thursday for the motion?
MR. COCHRAN: Which motion?
MR. NEUFELD: Our motion to strike and their motion--
THE COURT: How does that sound?
MR. NEUFELD: Okay.
MR. DARDEN: That is the Thano Peratis motion?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. DARDEN: We really need to have that resolved as soon as possible so that if we are going to have to call him, obviously we need to fit him in.
THE COURT: Well, at the rate we are going, if we hear about another change of gloves--
MR. DARDEN: Well, he would be the next witness if he is going--if we are going to have to call him.
THE COURT: There was a broad hint there. "Did you follow your usual procedures?"
MS. CLARK: Yes, your Honor. I heard that.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. DARDEN: Can we do it tomorrow?
THE COURT: Well, the problem is we have a full day tomorrow, and on Thursday we have to break at three o'clock because of the juror's medical appointment, so why not do it at 3:15? I don't see us finishing Mr. Deedrick between now and Thursday, frankly.
MR. NEUFELD: Also I need to notify Professor Uelmen as well.
MR. COCHRAN: That is what we are doing right now. While we are doing this, your Honor, could we inquire of the--your Honor, could we inquire of the Prosecution as to the remaining witnesses under our three-day rule so we can figure out where we are going to be so that we can be prepared or try to prepare for that?
THE COURT: We have Mr. Deedrick coming after Miss Brockbank, correct?
MS. CLARK: That's correct, your Honor, and with respect to any remaining witnesses, can we inform counsel tomorrow morning because that will be more than three days in advance?
MR. COCHRAN: How will that be more than three days?
THE COURT: How many times did he change gloves?
MS. CLARK: He changes gloves every time he thinks about another item.
THE COURT: I understand that, but we can--there are shortcuts to this, you know.
MS. CLARK: I will.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: And I will.
THE COURT: Okay. All right. Tomorrow morning at nine o'clock tell Mr. Cochran who your next three witnesses are going to be after Mr. Deedrick.
MR. COCHRAN: Three days of witnesses.
MS. CLARK: Can we handle the Thano Peratis motion tomorrow morning then? No?
THE COURT: Thursday at three o'clock or 3:15.
MS. CLARK: Because I mean that will have an impact on the--
THE COURT: Well, counsel, I just got the papers now. I want to spend the full day in front of jury, since we have some down time Thursday. Let's do it Thursday.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
THE COURT: I get to make the decision. Thursday at three o'clock.
MS. CLARK: Yes.
THE COURT: Anything else?
MS. CLARK: No.
THE COURT: All right. Let's have the jurors. Miss Clark, 5:45.
MS. CLARK: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Are you going to be able to finish by then?
MS. CLARK: I think so.
MR. DARDEN: Is that a break at 5:45 or the end at 5:45?
THE COURT: The break at 5:45. All right. Let's have the jurors.
(Brief pause.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. And Miss Brockbank, would you resume the witness stand, please. Miss Clark.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor. Good evening. It feels like it is ten o'clock at night.
MS. CLARK: On August the 5th did you pack everything up for the purpose of taking a trip?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And what was that? What trip was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I packed up the evidence to be transported by me to the FBI laboratory in Washington D.C.
MS. CLARK: Now, what items were they that you took with you to Washington D.C.?
MS. BROCKBANK: Shall I give you a list?
MS. CLARK: Why don't you refer to the board that has been marked as People's 463 and tell us by referring to that board.
THE COURT: Is that 436?
MS. CLARK: 436. Thank you, your Honor.
MS. BROCKBANK: May I get up?
MS. CLARK: (Nods head up and down.) Maybe you could just--do you see the items on that board that you took with you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. It--well, I'm a little confused. Umm--
MS. CLARK: Let me help you out. Some of those items on the board you took with you on August 5th and some of them you did not, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: That's correct.
MS. CLARK: Why don't you point out the ones that you did take with you on August the 5th.
THE COURT: Would you like to use the pointer?
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry?
THE COURT: Pointer.
MS. CLARK: Would you like a pointer?
MS. BROCKBANK: A pointer.
MS. CLARK: Here you go, I'm sorry. Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: Can I do this and refer to my notes at the same time?
THE COURT: Sure.
MS. BROCKBANK: Okay. Item no. 19, the hair and trace from no. 9, I took that item.
MS. CLARK: That was the coin envelope that had--into which hair and trace from the Rockingham glove had been placed by Dennis Fung?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: Item 38 is not on the board.
MS. CLARK: Right. Did you take actual evidence items also, not just hair and trace bindles, but also evidence items?
MS. BROCKBANK: I think the only actual evidence item I took was item 38, which was the knit hat.
MS. CLARK: The blue knit cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. Then I took 73--73, Goldman's hair kit; 83, Nicole's hair kit; and 74, which is also not on the board, which was some hairs, I believe.
MS. CLARK: Was that a hair?
MS. BROCKBANK: A coin envelope.
MS. CLARK: A small brown bag that had been placed with--in the shoe bag for Ron Goldman by the Coroner's office?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't know where it originated from, but it was a brown bag marked "Hairs" and it was in with the evidence items taken from Mr. Goldman.
MS. CLARK: Okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: Did I say 83 already, Nicole's hair kit?
MS. CLARK: I believe so.
MS. BROCKBANK: Okay. Umm, 110 through 113, all of those items, which are the debris I removed from items 9 and 27, 37 and 38.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, let me stop you one second. You earlier indicated to us that everything, all the bindles were closed up and sealed in coin envelopes which were placed in analyzed evidence envelopes and sealed, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Is that the manner in which they were transported also?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, for the majority of the items, yes; but for some items, no.
MS. CLARK: Tell us when no.
MS. BROCKBANK: Okay. Items 73, 74 and 83 were originally packaged in a larger package with some other items, and those individual envelopes contained evidence which were individually sealed also, never opened by me, were placed in a--in a manila envelope which I marked on and the markings were removed from a package marked--that was originally marked, contained these items and some others by me on a certain date. So that was 73, 74 and 83.
MS. CLARK: And what about 122, the hair sample of Mr. Simpson?
MS. BROCKBANK: 122 was in its original package and it was not removed from there.
MS. CLARK: Okay. A umm--excuse me, Miss Brockbank. Counsel, may it be stipulated that at no time did Miss Brockbank unseal the sealed hair sample envelope for either Ronald Goldman, Nicole Brown or the Defendant until she arrived at the Federal Bureau of Investigation?
(Discussion held off the record between Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
MR. BLASIER: So stipulated.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel.
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
MS. BROCKBANK: Okay. Umm--
MS. CLARK: So the exemplars or the hair sample for the victims and for the Defendant were each in their own envelope, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And they were each sealed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. The other items that I took were items 122, which was individually packaged by itself, and then 123 through 130, which are not pictured here on the board. Also item 141 which is not pictured on the board; items 153 through 169, some of which are pictured on the board; 163, 64, 165, 166, 167 and 169 are included in that group.
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh.
MS. BROCKBANK: And item 221. Those are the items that I took to the FBI laboratory.
MS. CLARK: All right. And did you also take with you to the laboratory the hair and trace recovered from the--excuse me. Strike that. Did you take with you items 160 through 169?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did you also take with you the bag that originally contained Ron Goldman's shirt from the Coroner's office?
MS. BROCKBANK: The bag itself?
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh.
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: Did you--I'm sorry. Let me ask you a different question. You indicated that you recovered debris from the bag that originally contained Ron Goldman's shirt from the Coroner's office and you collected that into a bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you take that with you as well, that bindle?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: That was item no. 165?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Of the item no. 33 that we've referred to earlier--I'm sorry, you can have a seat.
MS. BROCKBANK: (Witness complies.)
MS. CLARK: Item no. 33 that we referred to earlier, that piece of carpet that appeared to you to have a bloody shoeprint, did you take that with you to--
MR. BLASIER: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question, please.
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry, your Honor.
MS. CLARK: You indicated earlier that item no. 33 was a piece of carpet on which you observed what appeared to you to be some kind of a bloody imprint?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you take that piece of carpet with to you Washington D.C.?
MS. BROCKBANK: No, I did not.
MS. CLARK: All right. So you had basically all of these analyzed evidence envelopes that were sealed and then you had the knit cap, the blue knit cap in a bag?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. That bag was removed from the box that it was originally packaged in, placed into a manila envelope which I labeled that I removed from that box on that date and it was sealed by me also on that date.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do with all those items?
MS. BROCKBANK: All of those items were placed into a paper bag which I then put in my carry-on bag, basically, to take on the plane with me when I flew back to Washington.
MS. CLARK: And when did you fly back to Washington?
MS. BROCKBANK: I flew out on August 7th. I stopped by the laboratory on my way to the airport and picked up the evidence. In the meantime, between August 5th and August 7th, it was stored in the serology freezer, and I picked it up, went to the airport, transported it back to Washington. Again it was in my hand carry luggage and I arrived in Washington on August 8th and delivered that evidence to Doug Deedrick at the FBI laboratory.
MS. CLARK: Personally?
MS. BROCKBANK: Personally.
MS. CLARK: Now, when you indicate that you left the--were all of the items put into the brown paper bag and the brown paper--that big brown bag was kept in the serology freezer until the 7th?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And was it sealed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I had taped over the top of it.
MS. CLARK: Did you have your initials on that tape?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you returned to pick it up on the way to the airport, did you examine the seal?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Was it intact?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: It had not been broken?
MS. BROCKBANK: No.
MS. CLARK: When you got to the FBI and you delivered the brown bag containing all of these envelopes to Mr. Deedrick, what did you do with him?
MS. BROCKBANK: We inventoried the evidence together and that is when he assigned all of his Q and K numbers and wrote his initials on all the packages, just basically inventoried what was there. And since I had taken the redeye out, I was not the most coherent person that day, so after inventorying the evidence, I went to my hotel and slept.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So did you actually--but you were present for the inventory procedure?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I was.
MS. CLARK: And you observed him to initial and itemize or label each of these items as either a Q number or a K number?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what is the Q number--what does a Q mean?
MS. BROCKBANK: Q is questioned and K is known, as far as source goes, so you have a questioned source or a known source.
MS. CLARK: What would be an example of a known source?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the head hair sample I took from Mr. Simpson would be a known source. Those hairs are known to have come from his head.
MS. CLARK: And the questioned source would be, an example of that?
MS. BROCKBANK: An example of a questioned source would be one of these items found out at the crime scene, some of those hairs--let's say the hairs in the knit cap, those would be a questioned item.
MS. CLARK: The following day did you return to the FBI?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And then did--what were you--did Doug ask you to do something?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. He had me assisting him by mounting the known hair standards from each of the victims and Mr. Simpson.
MS. CLARK: Okay. And what procedure did you follow for the mounting of those hairs? Who did you do first and how did you do it?
MS. BROCKBANK: I don't believe I really took many or any notes while I mounted them. Let me just do a little check here.
(Brief pause.)
MS. BROCKBANK: I really don't remember which order I mounted them in.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Can you explain the procedure used?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. I tried to follow the FBI's mounting procedure, which is just a little different than my own. You are using the same microscope slide and the glass coverslip. That part is the same, permount, that part is the same, but what they do is they will put just a drop of a chemical called xylene on the microscope slide and that just helps you kind of tack down the hairs so they don't slide off of the microscope slide while you are in the mounting process. And umm, they--they prefer to mount several hairs per slide whereas at LAPD I had previously mounted maybe one to five hairs per slide, generally. I would space them out. But the FBI actually mounts several hairs per slide, so I did that, mounting several hairs per slide using the xylene to tack down the hairs and then blotted off the xylene with a piece of blotting paper and then I add the permount, place the coverslip over it and the hairs were mounted.
MS. CLARK: And so that you followed the procedures outlined to you by Mr. Deedrick?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: In between the mounting of each hair sample, that is, for example, after you mounted the Defendant's hairs, what, if any, preparations did you make before beginning to mount the next, say, the hairs of Mr. Goldman?
MR. BLASIER: Your Honor, objection. Assumes facts not in evidence. She said she didn't know what order she did it in.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MS. CLARK: In between the mounting of different people's known hairs, did you do anything?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm--well, I only had one person's hair sample out at any given time, and in between those hair samples I changed my gloves. I don't remember the exact paper I had. I believe they have like a bench coat paper there, and I mounted them on that same bench coat paper, but changed my gloves in between samples.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Now, between August 16th and August 18th were other items requested to be sent to the FBI from LAPD?
MS. BROCKBANK: Other items were requested. I don't specifically recall which date. It was while I was there, sometime between August 8th and August 19th.
MS. CLARK: Somewhere between August 8th and 19th?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. Counsel, may it be stipulated that on August 11th criminalist Ronald Raquel assigned to the hair and trace unit of SID collected exemplars of the carpet fibers from the Defendant's Bronco in a forensically and scientifically appropriate manner, which would be LAPD item numbers 226, 227, 228, 230 and 231 and that those items of evidence were properly packaged and transported to the FBI for examination? May it be stipulated that on November 21st, 1994, criminalist Raquel also collected the hair exemplar of LAPD criminalist Susan Brockbank, LAPD item number 360, in a forensically and scientifically appropriate manner and that the evidence was properly packaged and transported to the FBI for examination?
MR. BLASIER: So stipulated.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel. As you recollect, I instructed you previously that a stipulation is an agreement between the parties as to the facts and you are to assume those facts to be true for the purpose of this trial. Thank you, counsel.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor. One more while we are at it. May it be further stipulated that on August 15th, 1994, criminalist Collin Yamauchi collected fabric samples in a forensically and scientifically appropriate manner from Nicole Brown Simpson's dress, item no. 86, Ron Goldman's pants, item no. 79, and Ron Goldman's shirt, item no. 81, and that those items of evidence were properly packaged and transported to the FBI for examination?
MR. BLASIER: So stipulated.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel. Proceed.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
MS. CLARK: Now, with respect to the item numbers on the board next to you, specifically items 226 to 231, did you receive those from the LAPD while you were still at the FBI?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, they were received by Mr. Deedrick, not by myself.
MS. CLARK: Were you not present?
MS. BROCKBANK: I was present, but he is the one that actually received them.
MS. CLARK: Okay. You saw them there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. And are you looking at those items on the chain board, People's 436?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Are those in fact the items that were received at the FBI?
MS. BROCKBANK: (No audible response.)
MS. CLARK: You can get down and look if you need to.
MS. BROCKBANK: (Witness complies.)
(Brief pause.)
MS. BROCKBANK: 226 through 231?
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh.
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: While you are there, with respect to item no. 79 shown there as Goldman pant fabric sample, item no. 81, Goldman shirt fabric sample, and item no. 86, Nicole dress fabric sample, and the K numbers assigned, that is, K17, 18 and 19, can you tell us if exemplars from each of those three clothing items were received at the FBI while you were there?
MS. BROCKBANK: Again, they were received by Mr. Deedrick; not by myself.
MS. CLARK: You saw them there, though?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. Miss Clark, I think perhaps we ought to take the board, since we have now talked about just everything that is there, because some of the items are very small and you have them mounted low, perhaps we should exhibit the full board down to the other side of the jury box since they haven't been able to see some of the lower items.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
(The exhibit was displayed to the jury.)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Miss Clark.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
MS. CLARK: And when is it that you left the FBI?
MS. BROCKBANK: On August 19th.
MS. CLARK: All right. Moving forward to December 20th of 1994, on that date were you being visited by Mr. Deedrick at the LAPD SID lab?
MS. BROCKBANK: Let me see.
(Brief pause.)
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I was.
MS. CLARK: And did you show him some items at that time?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What did you show him?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, he--umm,--well, I showed him item numbers 9, which is the glove, 27, the hat, and 37, a glove.
MS. CLARK: Okay. The item no. 27, is that the cap from the Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: So you showed him both gloves and the cap found in the Bronco?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And where were they being kept?
MS. BROCKBANK: They were being stored in the serology freezer still.
MS. CLARK: Everything still in their original packages as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Sealed?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: On October 3rd--I forgot to ask you this. Let me back up for a second. On October 3rd of 1994, do you recall getting a phone call from an employee of the Coroner's office by the name of Steve Dowell?
MS. BROCKBANK: On October 3rd? Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And did he--based on that phone call did you then visit the Coroner's office on October 4th?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Was something pointed out to you by Mr. Dowell?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: What was pointed out?
MS. BROCKBANK: He was examining a tissue sample that was in a jar when he noticed a fiber on this tissue sample, so he contacted me and had me come over so that we could photograph it and he could release that item, that fiber to me.
MS. CLARK: Okay. Tell us what you saw.
MS. BROCKBANK: A single blue fiber, very tiny. It took--it took a lot from him for me to actually see the fiber. It was so tiny. It was on this--this piece of tissue that he was examining and he had to point at it while I looked through the microscope in order for me to see it. It was just so small to see.
MS. CLARK: Even under the microscope?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: When you say this piece of tissue, what are you referring to?
MS. BROCKBANK: It was an excised piece of tissue, part of the throat area from Nicole Simpson.
MS. CLARK: And it had been--that piece of tissue had been stored in a jar?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Okay. When you examined it on the slide, was that mounted on permount?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. When Steve removed it from the tissue and placed it on a slide, which I dry mounted, what that means is I just placed a coverslip over the--the fiber and then taped the coverslip down to the slide, rather than using any kind of mounting media.
MS. CLARK: Why?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, at--well, at that time I wasn't examining any evidence any longer and it was going to be transported to the FBI lab. There was no reason for me to mount it, so I just--that is--it was so small, again, I didn't want to put it in a paper bindle. I thought the best way to preserve it was to place it on a slide and dry mount it, and I actually circled it also on the glass part of the slide, I circled where the fiber was to make it easier for someone else to see in the future.
MS. CLARK: Was there anything else that was pointed out by Mr. Dowell that you recovered that day?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. Along with the--that single fiber there was what appeared to be an oily gray metallic substance on this tissue and he also removed a portion of that and placed it on a slide and I also dry mounted that material.
MS. CLARK: And what did you do with those slides?
MS. BROCKBANK: Those were booked into evidence at the lab and item numbers 332 and 333.
MS. CLARK: Now, directing your attention to November 17th through 30th of 1994, on that date did you collect hair samples from various lab and police personnel?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. CLARK: And prior to collecting those hair samples did you confer with Mr. Deedrick concerning the appropriate manner for the collection of hair samples?
MS. BROCKBANK: I did confer with him and the manner of collection was the same manner which I had collected Mr. Simpson's hair, combing and pulling hairs from the various areas of the head from each of those people that I collected hair from.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Escobar, can you raise that up, please. (Brief pause.)
THE COURT: 247, can you see that?
JUROR NO. 247: Yes.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MS. CLARK: All right. Have you examined all of the entries on this--I would like to ask that this board be marked as People's 451, your Honor.
THE COURT: People's 451.
(Peo's 451 for id = posterboard)
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did. I collected each of those samples, excluding my own, which is over on the right-hand side, item no. 360, and that one item was collected by Mr. Ron Raquel.
MS. CLARK: Okay. So you collected these in the same manner which you collected the Defendant's hair samples, correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And on that board is also contained--
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, the two additional items or is it two? One additional item, 431 down on the lower right-hand corner.
MS. CLARK: Yes.
MS. BROCKBANK: Hair exemplar from Ed McGowan. He was a police officer who shaved his head so we had to wait for his hair to grow out a sufficient length for me to collect a sample, so he was actually collected at a later date and, umm, that was on February 23rd of 1995.
MS. CLARK: That you collected it?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. Counsel, may it be stipulated that Miss Brockbank collected the exemplars from the people depicted on the board now marked as People's 451, and the dog's Kato and Chachi, in a forensically and scientifically appropriate manner and that said exemplars were properly packaged and transported to the FBI for examination?
MR. BLASIER: Yes.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MS. CLARK: And have you assured yourself that all of the item numbers and all of the information on this board is correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, no, I haven't read every box and verified them.
MS. CLARK: All right. When we take our break tonight I'm going to ask that you do so and I will ask that question again tomorrow morning before we conclude.
MS. BROCKBANK: Right.
MS. CLARK: That will be the only question, I hope.
MS. CLARK: Now, did you also collect the exemplars from dogs Kato and Chachi on November 30th, 1994?
THE COURT: I thought we just stipulated to that.
MR. BLASIER: I will stipulate.
MS. CLARK: I just wanted to get the date in.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. BLASIER: I will stipulate to the dates on the board as well.
MS. CLARK: November 30th.
MR. BLASIER: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Stipulated. Thank you.
MS. CLARK: All right. Did Mr. Deedrick ask you to secure items of clothing and perhaps a hairbrush from the family of Ron Goldman?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, he did. Well, yes.
MS. CLARK: And why was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, he requested that we attempt to find a hairbrush from Ron Goldman to provide an additional exemplar of known hairs from Mr. Goldman. I then went to see Mr. And Mrs. Goldman at their home and examined his personal effects and I was not able to find a hairbrush, but there were some clothing items and some hats that he frequently wore, so I took those items and removed hairs from them and provided those to Mr. Deedrick.
MS. CLARK: So that was the only method you had to collect additional hair standards since there was no hairbrush, just the clothing?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, ma'am.
MS. CLARK: Hats and stuff?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And what item numbers did those receive?
MS. BROCKBANK: Let me just check.
(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
MS. BROCKBANK: Those items were received item numbers 375 through 382 and 411 and 412.
MS. CLARK: All right. I'm going to direct your attention to People's 436, the item numbers for the hair exemplars from the dog's Chachi and Kato, 365 and 366. Is that information correct?
MS. BROCKBANK: 365 and 366? Yes.
MS. CLARK: Now, in February--approximately February 17th, 1995, were you required to assist in packaging up all items containing bindles of hair and trace evidence for the purpose of sending them out?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, when was that again?
MS. CLARK: Approximately February 17th, 1995.
MS. BROCKBANK: February 17th? Can I have just a moment?
MS. CLARK: Sure.
(Brief pause.)
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I'm having trouble finding those notes. If you could tell me what I was sending them out for, I might be able to find then easier.
MS. CLARK: All right. They were being packaged to be sent out for Defense viewing in Albany.
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, actually, I was not involved in that at all.
MS. CLARK: Oh, okay.
MS. BROCKBANK: That is probably why I can't find the note.
MS. CLARK: Then let me direct your attention to March the 4th, 1995. On that date were you working at SID in the hair and trace unit?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I was.
MS. CLARK: And were there members of the Defense team present to view the evidence concerning hair and trace on that date?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, there were.
MS. CLARK: Can you tell us who was present?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, let's see. Mr. Blasier, Mr. Neufeld, Mr. Scheck, Henry Lee, Chuck Morton.
MS. CLARK: Who is Chuck Morton?
MS. BROCKBANK: He is a gentleman sitting right in the center of the courtroom here, (Indicating).
MS. CLARK: Do you know him?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I do.
MS. CLARK: What does he do?
MS. BROCKBANK: He is a criminalist. I lost my train of thought now.
MS. CLARK: I'm sorry. Anybody else present?
MS. BROCKBANK: Dr. Baden and an associate of his whose name escapes me, Barbara--
MS. CLARK: Barbara Wolf?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. And Greg Matheson, myself, umm, John Taggert, our photographer, quite a group.
MS. CLARK: All right.
MS. BROCKBANK: And it seems like there was another person. That is all I can remember.
MS. CLARK: That is enough. Now, what items were being examined then?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, can I refer to my notes?
MS. CLARK: Sure.
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I know the field manual for the crime lab was being examined and, umm, crime scene notes from Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola were being examined. Those I really wouldn't consider as--I mean, they are not evidence items, but they were being examined. The glove, item no. 37, umm, and some bindles that were packaged with that glove; the hat, item no. 38, the knit hat; item numbers 110 through 113.
MS. CLARK: That is the hair and trace that you took off the gloves and the plaid cap, the knit cap?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. And item no. 221. Those are the only items I made notation of.
MS. CLARK: All right.
MS. BROCKBANK: And I was there as an observer.
MS. CLARK: Uh-huh. How long did all that take, if you know?
MS. BROCKBANK: Well, I was there from about I think 7:00 A.M. until about 6:00 P.M., 6:00 P.M., a full day.
MS. CLARK: Was it still going on when you left at 6:00 P.M.?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes. The group had dwindled down significantly but there was still some exams going on.
MS. CLARK: And directing your attention to March the 13th, 1995, did you have occasion to visit with Mr. Morton on that occasion as well?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes, I did.
MS. CLARK: And can you explain to us how that occurred?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, again I--I was asked to transport some evidence to a laboratory in Yorba Linda, Cal Lab.
MR. BLASIER: Your Honor, I'm going to object. May we approach?
THE COURT: Yes, with the court reporter, please.
(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)
THE COURT: We are over at side bar. What is your objection?
MR. BLASIER: We are not contesting chain of custody. She is getting into Defense testing, Defense examination, and I think--I thought we had previously ruled on that. We would object to any testimony about what we might have tested or not tested or any inferences that might be created by us receiving evidence and examining it. I'm not objecting--I will stipulate to the chain of custody of these items during that period of time and--
MS. CLARK: I don't know why we are precluded from bringing out the fact that our evidence--this witness witnessed and observed--observed the--not only witnessed and observed, but conducted the transportation of evidence for the purpose of Defense viewing, to exactly which items she transported, because they have to be unpackaged and then repackaged and resealed, and they are just--they refused my earlier offer to stipulate as to what her testimony would have encompassed.
THE COURT: What is she going to say? I took them out to Cal Labs?
MS. CLARK: Right.
THE COURT: I was there for how long?
MS. CLARK: Right.
THE COURT: What she observed?
MS. CLARK: Right.
THE COURT: What did she observe?
MS. CLARK: Just observed him examining the evidence. That is a one-question thing. And then they were all repackaged and she took them back and that is it and I'm done.
THE COURT: And you are done?
MS. CLARK: I am done.
MR. COCHRAN: You are finished with this witness?
MS. CLARK: That's right.
MR. COCHRAN: What about this question?
MS. CLARK: Only one question, though.
MR. COCHRAN: Well--
THE COURT: She has got to look at the board, look at the board.
MR. COCHRAN: Judge, can I just say something? Looking at the jurors and everybody, is it fair for Bob to have to start this afternoon?
THE COURT: If you want to quit, we can quit and get a fresh start.
MR. COCHRAN: Don't you think that is fair?
THE COURT: But--
MS. CLARK: You know--
MS. CLARK: If you let me get back there, it will take two or three, what, four or five questions to finish. By that time it will be a quarter to 6:00 which is when you want to break anyway.
THE COURT: All right. I'm going to overrule the objection. We are not going into testing, just that she transported it there and that it was available to the Defense for examination and then brought back and that is all we are going into.
MS. CLARK: The fact that she observed him to examine--
THE COURT: (Nods head up and down.)
MS. CLARK: Okay. That is it.
MR. COCHRAN: That is testing.
MS. CLARK: Not what he did, just that she watched him examine it and took it back and repackaged it and took it back.
MR. BLASIER: We would object to that.
THE COURT: All right. It will be overruled, but it is examination. Ask a leading question.
MS. CLARK: Yes.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. CLARK: Yes, I will wrap it all in.
MR. COCHRAN: She is good at that.
THE COURT: So stipulated.
(The following proceedings were held in open court:)
THE COURT: Thank you, counsel. Miss Clark.
MS. CLARK: Thank you, your Honor.
MS. CLARK: All right. The items, if I can just abbreviate this, that you took with you for examination by Mr. Morton, were they the hair and trace recovered from the gloves, the blue knit ski cap, the cap from the Bronco, the Defendant's socks and exemplars from--that is hair sample of the victims, Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, the Defendant and sample from the Bronco carpet and from the dog's Kato and Chachi and all of the police and laboratory personnel shown on the board marked as People's 451?
THE COURT: 451.
MS. CLARK: Thank you.
MS. CLARK: Is that what you took with you?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, yes.
MS. CLARK: All right. And when you took those items to his lab, did you observe them being opened?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And did you observe Mr. Morton to examine those items?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Over what period of time did that occur?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, I believe it occurred over a four-day span.
THE COURT: Those items were packaged up and returned to LAPD?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Yes. And on what date was that?
MS. BROCKBANK: On March 16th.
MS. CLARK: And you observed them to be repackaged?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: And then you took them back with you to LAPD at the SID unit?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Did you book them back into evidence?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm, not on that date. I arrived back at the lab after our evidence control unit had closed for the evening, so I secured them in my evidence locker in the trace analysis unit and then I returned them to ECU the following day.
MS. CLARK: When you say "Secured," do you mean locked?
MS. BROCKBANK: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Have you by any chance had a chance to examine the board that we were going to ask you to examine yet?
MS. BROCKBANK: Umm--
MS. CLARK: 451?
MS. BROCKBANK: No. It would just take a couple minutes.
MS. CLARK: Could I let her do that?
THE COURT: I'm sorry?
MS. CLARK: May she do that now, your Honor, and then I conclude?
THE COURT: Let's call it a day. She will have to compare that with her notes.
MS. CLARK: That's true.
THE COURT: All right. Okay. All right. I take it the Defense has no objection at this point?
MR. COCHRAN: To leaving now? No, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to quit seven minutes early today. Please remember all of my admonitions to you. Don't discuss the case among yourselves, form any opinions about the case, allow anybody to communicate with you or conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you. As far as the attorneys are concerned, and the jury, we will stand in recess until 9:00 A.M. tomorrow morning. And Miss Brockbank, you are ordered to come back tomorrow morning at nine o'clock. All right. Thank you, counsel. We will be in recess.
(At 4:37 P.M. an adjournment was taken until, Wednesday, June 28, 1995, 9:00 A.M.)
SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge
The People of the State of California,)
Plaintiff,)
Vs.) No. BA097211 )
Orenthal James Simpson,)
Defendant.)
Reporter's transcript of proceedings Tuesday, June 27, 1995
Volume 176 pages 33996 through 34141, inclusive
(Pages 33974 through 33995, inclusive, sealed) (Pages 34138 through 34140, inclusive, sealed)
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APPEARANCES:
Janet M. Moxham, CSR #4588 Christine M. Olson, CSR #2378 official reporters
FOR THE PEOPLE: Gil Garcetti, District Attorney by: Marcia R. Clark, William W. Hodgman, Christopher A. Darden, Cheri A. Lewis, Rockne P. Harmon, George W. Clarke, Scott M. Gordon Lydia C. Bodin, Hank M. Goldberg, Alan Yochelson and Darrell S. Mavis, Brian R. Kelberg, and Kenneth E. Lynch, Deputies 18-000 Criminal Courts Building 210 West Temple Street Los Angeles, California 90012
FOR THE DEFENDANT: Robert L. Shapiro, Esquire Sara L. Caplan, Esquire 2121 Avenue of the Stars 19th floor Los Angeles, California 90067 Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr., Esquire by: Carl E. Douglas, Esquire Shawn Snider Chapman, Esquire 4929 Wilshire Boulevard Suite 1010 Los Angeles, California 90010 Gerald F. Uelmen, Esquire Robert Kardashian, Esquire Alan Dershowitz, Esquire F. Lee Bailey, Esquire Barry Scheck, Esquire Peter Neufeld, Esquire Robert D. Blasier, Esquire William C. Thompson, Esquire
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I N D E X
Index for volume 176 pages 33996 - 34141
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Day date session page vol.
Tuesday June 27, 1995 A.M. 33996 176
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LEGEND: Ms. Clark-mc Mr. Hodgman-h Mr. Darden d Mr. Kahn-k Mr. Goldberg-gb Mr. Gordon-g Mr. Shapiro-s Mr. Cochran-c Mr. Douglas-cd Mr. Bailey-b Mr. Uelmen-u Mr. Scheck-bs Mr. Neufeld-n
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CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
PEOPLE'S witnesses direct cross redirect recross vol.
Lewis, Denise 176 (Resumed) 34002gc 34022bb
Brockbank, Susan 176 34087c
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ALPHABETICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES
WITNESSES direct cross redirect recross vol.
Brockbank, Susan 176 34087c
Lewis, Denise 176 (Resumed) 34002gc 34022bb
EXHIBITS
PEOPLE'S for in exhibit identification evidence page vol. Page vol.
443 - Photograph 34150 176 of the back of a collection of envelopes - item 110
444 - Photograph 34163 176 of side-by-side views of gloves - items 9 and 37
445 - Photograph 34197 176 of a collection of envelopes - item 112
446 - Photograph 34215 176 of six s/p slide mailers
446-A - photograph 34216 176 of the back of six s/p slide mailers
446-B - photograph 34216 176 of twelve slides in s/p slide mailers
447 - Photograph 34265 176 of a collection of envelopes - item 164
448 - Photograph 34269 176 of a bundle of bags wrapped with twine
449 - Photograph 34279 176 of an open bindle - item 91
450 - Photograph 34282 176 of a piece of plastic - item 93
451 - Large chart 34318 176 entitled "Eliminated hair samples"