Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge

APPEARANCES: (Appearances as heretofore noted.)

(Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)

(Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. Mr. Simpson is again present before the Court with his counsel, Mr. Shapiro, Mr. Cochran, Mr. Blasier. The People are represented by Miss Clark, Mr. Darden, Mr. Goldberg and Mr. Gordon. Good morning, counsel.

MR. SHAPIRO: Good morning, your Honor.

THE COURT: Counsel, anything we need to take up before we proceed with the next witness? Mr. Blasier.

MR. BLASIER: Yes, your Honor. On scheduling, we submitted a letter to the Court last week regarding Dr. Weir's testimony and what we proposed that is we have the 402 hearing on Thursday and the testimony, if there is going to be testimony, on Friday morning. We won't get Dr. Weir's report until this afternoon and we also--there was a book that has been referred to that we have to get out to our experts, but we think we can work within that time frame. I discussed that with Mr. Harmon. He didn't seem to have any problems with it, but I won't speak for him.

THE COURT: Mr. Harmon, good morning, sir.

MR. HARMON: Good morning, your Honor. That is no problem. I'm not sure what that does with the rest of our schedule, but Dr. Weir is here, so--

MR. BLASIER: We are trying to accommodate the fact that he is out of town next week.

THE COURT: Okay. What is your time estimate on your presentation?

MR. BLASIER: We think everything can be done in a day.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. BLASIER: On the 402.

THE COURT: All right. Does that meet your approval then, Mr. Harmon?

MR. HARMON: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Then I should set aside the whole day for this hearing?

MR. HARMON: Yes, your Honor.

MR. BLASIER: Yes, I think so.

THE COURT: Okay. Thank you, gentlemen.

MR. BLASIER: Thank you.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Gordon. Good morning, sir.

MR. GORDON: Good morning. The issue regarding witnesses Holmes and Redfern. Your Honor, we presented the Court with moving papers. These are two very discreet incidents that are close in time; one `94, one `92. They are highly probative. They fit well within the Court's order. As I said, we went through the third investigation, we culled those down to find those incidents which fit squarely within the Court's order. These two incidents fits squarely within the Court order that the Court has come down with and the Court's ruling. They are extremely probative. They fit within the pattern. We are attempting to cull down and pare down the evidence that we do have to present the case in a streamline form in what is upcoming, and this evidence will assist us in doing that. It is extremely probative. One is a physical assault and the other I have evidence of stalking and one a pursuit in 1992.

THE COURT: Mr. Gordon, your moving papers indicate that discovery was provided to the Defense and I would like to know specifically when it was that these reports were turned over to the Defense.

MR. GORDON: Let me check on this.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GORDON: Just a moment, your Honor. The witness were listed on the April 27th master witness list. As for the dates that the actual reports were done, I believe it was--let me check with Mr. Armstrong and the investigators if I could, your Honor--

THE COURT: All right.

MR. GORDON: --to get a specific date. That is a little bit outside my--

THE COURT: I would like to know the specific date that these reports were turned over.

MR. GORDON: Yes.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GORDON: My understanding this regards--Mr. Darden has informed me he spoke to Mr. Cochran, if--depending on the Court's order, they should be ready to go on the witness whenever the Court does rule, but let me check on the dates for the Court.

THE COURT: All right.

(Brief pause.)

MR. DARDEN: If I can add on the issue. At the time that those reports were prepared, we were operating under the order of the Court wherein the Court ordered us to provide discovery within one day. They were turned over within one business day.

THE COURT: All right. I'm just curious time frame wise what we are talking about here.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GORDON: We are checking on that, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Gordon, Mr. Darden advises me that these reports were made available to the Defense within one business day of the completion of the report, as per the Court's previous order.

MR. GORDON: That is my understanding. I'm outside the discovery operation. February 23rd is the date of the interviews on the Holmes matter. I believe Redfern was some time in March, but I'm checking that for the Court right now.

THE COURT: All right. I have the report, the Holmes report.

MR. GORDON: Which are actually two separate Court reports. The Court has got both attached. Both have a February 23rd date.

THE COURT: All right. There is no date on the Giacondo/Redfern report.

MR. GORDON: My recollection it was in March and I'm checking that right now.

THE COURT: All right. I will hear from the Defense.

MR. COCHRAN: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: Good morning, Mr. Cochran.

MR. COCHRAN: Good morning, your Honor. Your Honor, with regard to these two items, I'm not clear on the dates that we got these actual reports. I will accept counsel's representation regarding that. The problem, however, your Honor, is that the Court will recall we had a rather lengthy hearing on this matter, I believe, back in January, and as I recall, on or about January 18th the Court issued a very, very lengthy ruling. We went to a lot of trouble to detail all these various discrete incidents and tell us what we could expect, what evidence would be admissible and why, what evidence will not be admissible. And now to come up at the very end of trial and have these two witnesses, specifically Holmes and Redfern, with these so-called discrete acts, I think is really unfair. We didn't have a chance to argue about these before and it puts us at a disadvantage. Now, it is true there is not much in the way of reports regarding these two witnesses and I think we now have all those reports, but this motion that details this, if the Court will recall, that I didn't actually get the motion, I don't think, until Friday, somebody handed it to me on this past Friday. I spoke to Mr. Darden this morning about it and I said that we are at a real disadvantage from an investigatory standpoint. And although the reports are short and I can read those and perhaps get ready, from an investigatory standpoint, having known the items that your Honor said would be admissible, we are ready with those. These are separate items which we have not had really a chance to investigate because it hadn't been an issue, but the problem it really raises, depending upon your Honor's ruling, although I can be ready, we would like some time to obviously sit and talk to our client about it. It hasn't been relevant--but discuss with our client and also to have our investigators take a look at this also, and that is the only--that is my indication. I think there is some question about fairness regarding this, because they had all these other issues. You counted them up. You had to do a chart to go through all of them, and we dealt with those and now we have these two and then now we are in the kind of a situation at the last minute where we have to scramble around reviewing all the reports, take time to talk to our client and then perhaps also talk to our investigators, which we have not done in that regard because it was not anticipated these witnesses would be called because they were never addressed to you.

THE COURT: Well, let me anticipate Mr. Gordon's argument and ask you, Mr. Cochran, Mr. Gordon is going to argue that these reports were turned over in February and in March and that in April, late April, these two names were added to the Prosecution's witness list.

MR. COCHRAN: I will have to check with Mr. Douglas with regard to that. That may very well be true, your Honor. But again, with regard to items of domestic discord, it seems to me and it seems to us that the parameters were pretty well set by your Honor in your ruling and it was not a situation--the Court--as the Court has said so many times, we have been kind of busy in here as we go along with the evidence and we kind of anticipated we would be dealing with the witnesses that were set forth at that time. So all I'm saying is that there is an element of unfairness. I was just talking to my client about it. We have had not had a chance to discuss it and there are so many witnesses set forth on both sides, and as you know, there are over 30,000 pages now of discovery. We get discovery everyday in this case, so it makes it very difficult and that is the point we are faced with.

THE COURT: When you say you need additional time since this motion was served on you, as I recollect here in Court last Thursday or Friday--

MR. COCHRAN: Yes.

THE COURT: --how much time are you asking for?

MR. COCHRAN: Umm, gee, your Honor, may I--may I have a second to talk to my client about this? Because I need obviously to talk to him and to talk with our investigators on this point. May I have a second?

THE COURT: Certainly.

MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.

MR. GORDON: May I respond just briefly, your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel and the Defendant.)

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. COCHRAN: I have discussed the matter with my client and also Mr. Douglas advises me that we were able to apparently interview a couple of these witnesses over this weekend, because we want to get this case over also, your Honor, so I would ask that the Court give us a couple of days, perhaps Wednesday or Thursday. We will be ready by that time.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Gordon.

MR. GORDON: Yes.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GORDON: To actually call the witnesses or to--I'm a little bit unclear.

THE COURT: I think they want the opportunity--you served the motion that you were going to call these witnesses to argue the admissibility, I take it, in a 402 hearing.

MR. GORDON: Certainly.

THE COURT: So I will hear that Wednesday.

MR. GORDON: Certainly.

THE COURT: And if you get a favorable ruling on one or both, you should have those witnesses available.

MR. GORDON: They are certainly going to be available. The one thing I would note to the Court is that the original 402 brought--

THE COURT: Excuse me just a second. Gentlemen, Mr. Bailey, Mr. Goldberg, keep it down, will you please.

MR. GORDON: Just bringing to the Court's attention and for the record the original 402 brought by the Defense we listed those incidents that were known at that time. We indicated to the Court and Defense that this investigation was continuing.

THE COURT: No, I recollect, and you told me that there were ongoing phone calls and information coming in all the time.

MR. GORDON: Certainly.

THE COURT: I am not surprised to hear this, but counsel is entitled, since they didn't get the motion until--

MR. GORDON: Thank you.

THE COURT: --Friday--

MR. GORDON: Thank you for your consideration.

THE COURT: All right. Wednesday.

MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.

MR. GORDON: Domestic violence issues.

MR. COCHRAN: Domestic discord issues will be fine at that point.

THE COURT: All right. All right. Counsel, I have received from the California Department of Justice two additional DNA reports from Mr. Sims and Miss Montgomery. And let me ask Miss Martinez, would you come forward, please. Give one copy to each side.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: And this is a report dated by Mr. Sims and Miss Montgomery June 16th. Also, I have received two large packages from the Department of Justice Bureau of Forensic Sciences, two additional packages. And let me give the original to the Prosecution and a copy to the Defense on this as well.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: All right. Counsel, anything else before the Prosecution calls their next witness?

MR. COCHRAN: Could we just on the record--we have had some informal conversations--can we get a statement that the People's case is kind of shifting here at the end? Can we get a definitive statement about the order of witnesses again, where we are going to go this week, so that we will know and prepare and I can get lawyers here.

THE COURT: Miss Clark, have we finished the gloves?

MS. CLARK: For now.

THE COURT: For now. All right. Then we were supposed to have shoes, domestic violence and DNA with Airtouch and hair and trace and fiber.

MS. CLARK: That's right.

THE COURT: In that order?

MS. CLARK: That's what I think.

THE COURT: All right. So I should expect shoes next?

MS. CLARK: Yes.

THE COURT: Shoes today?

MS. CLARK: Yes, right now.

THE COURT: And how many witnesses are you going to be calling besides Mr. Bodziak.

MR. GOLDBERG: One.

MS. CLARK: One other.

THE COURT: Who is that?

MS. CLARK: Mr. Poser.

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.

THE COURT: All right.

MS. CLARK: I just had one question. What is our schedule for tomorrow, your Honor?

THE COURT: My recollection is one of our jurors has to attend a graduation somewhere quite distant and I think we are going to break at approximately 3:30.

MS. CLARK: I thought I had heard that. I wanted to make sure.

THE COURT: It has been on the calendar.

MR. COCHRAN: I thought we were going to six o'clock. I'm sorry, your Honor.

THE COURT: Well, Mr. Cochran, I will ask the juror if--

MR. COCHRAN: Only kidding, your Honor. Only kidding.

THE COURT: All right. Anything else before we invite the jurors to join us? Mr. Darden.

MR. DARDEN: Your Honor, on the glove issue--

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. DARDEN: --we are going to revisit that issue again, I don't know which day, and I would ask that Mr. Cochran keep his file relative to the glove handy.

MR. COCHRAN: Which issue are you talking about?

MR. DARDEN: The glove.

MR. COCHRAN: They haven't had enough of the gloves yet, your Honor. Okay. We will be ready.

THE COURT: All right. Anything else?

MS. CLARK: Not right now, your Honor. Thank you.

THE COURT: All right. Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

THE COURT: All right. The People may call their next witness. Mr. Goldberg, will you be handling this witness?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Good morning, sir. You may proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: The People call Bill Bodziak to the stand. Good morning.

THE JURY: Good morning.

William J. Bodziak, called as a witness by the People, was sworn and testified as follows:

THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this Court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

MR. BODZIAK: I do.

THE CLERK: Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.

MR. BODZIAK: William J. Bodziak, W-I-L-L-I-A-M, middle initial J. the last name is spelled B-O-D-Z-I-A-K.

THE COURT: Mr. Goldberg.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. GOLDBERG

MR. GOLDBERG: Good morning.

MR. BODZIAK: Good morning.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, what is your occupation and assignment?

MR. BODZIAK: I'm a special agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I'm currently assigned in the FBI laboratory as an examiner of questioned documents, footwear and tire tread evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: Have you had some training and experience that qualifies you for that position?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I have.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to first start with your formal training and experience. Did you have an university degree?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. I have a BA degree in biology from East Carolina University and I have a Master's degree in forensic science from George Washington University.

MR. GOLDBERG: And can you just briefly tell us what that forensic science degree, the Master's that you referred to, involves?

MR. BODZIAK: The forensic science degree is approximately half graduate forensic science courses and the other half of the courses are dedicated to law and criminology.

MR. GOLDBERG: What year did you graduate with this Master's ?

MR. BODZIAK: 1976.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And turning to your experience at the FBI, when did you join the Federal Bureau of Investigation?

MR. BODZIAK: I entered on duty in January of 1970.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was your capacity when you first entered?

MR. BODZIAK: I entered as a special agent and my first capacity for three years was as an investigative field agent in the New Haven and Baltimore divisions.

MR. GOLDBERG: So in approximately 1973 you were transferred to another division?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was that?

MR. BODZIAK: I was transferred to the FBI laboratory.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why were you transferred to the laboratory?

MR. BODZIAK: I was transferred there to begin training in the areas of questioned documents, footwear and tire tread impressions.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who do they select for that kind of a position?

MR. BODZIAK: The FBI had at the time a science program that intentionally brought in agents with science background to potentially bring back to the laboratory for those assignments.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was this something that you were interested in?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you were first assigned to the laboratory division in 1973, what was your first assignment?

MR. BODZIAK: My first assignment in 1973 was to begin training, was a three-year course of training in the laboratory where I would work cases, hundreds of cases over those years, everyday under the direct supervision of the senior examiners.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And in addition to doing documents, are there other kind of things that you do in that section?

MR. BODZIAK: Documents including footwear and tire impression evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how long have you actually been conducting examinations on footwear impression evidence?

MR. BODZIAK: Shortly after arriving in 1973 and beginning that case work training I was introduced to footwear and tire tread analysis as well.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is that what you have done in this case, is to provide an analysis of some--of some footwear impression evidence?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I have.

MR. GOLDBERG: In this case?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, do we have a chart that is--that we can use to illustrate the kind of analysis that you have been doing in the FBI laboratory in general terms since 1973 in terms of footwear impression evidence?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And would that be helpful to you in describing the kind of techniques that you performed and the analysis that you perform there?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it would.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I would like to mark as People's next in order a chart entitled "What shoeprints can show," and I believe that is 373.

THE COURT: People's 373.

(Peo's 373 for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, directing your attention to what's marked as People's 373 for identification, the section that says "If covered shoes of a suspect may be identified or eliminated," can you describe for us--if you need to step down you may do so--what kind of analysis you've performed that is signified by this portion of the chart.

MR. BODZIAK: Okay. May I step down, your Honor?

THE COURT: You may.

MR. BODZIAK: Directing the attention to the top portion of the chart, one of the primary purposes of footwear comparison is ultimately to examine the footwear impressions from the crime scene, which is depicted here on the right side, (Indicating), with shoes of suspects that might be obtained during the investigation. In this particular chart I've shown, as an example on the right, an impression from a crime scene, a test impression made from the shoe of the suspect, and on the left side a reverse photograph of the shoe of the suspect. This comparison involves the class characteristics first of the shoe, that is, the physical shape and size, the design or pattern on the bottom of the shoe, which leaves its print in the impression, and then subsequently we will draw its attention to wear characteristics. Maybe the heel may begin to wear on the edge and other wear that might be evident and would change the pattern of the shoe. The fourth area of comparison, after the size design and wear, would be things such as accidental characteristics, such as a cut mark that would also show up in the impression and would be found on both the test impression and the known shoe. These cut marks or changes to the pattern of the shoe are what makes a shoe unique and would possibly enable, if there was an adequate number of these, the positive identification of this shoe having made the impression at the crime scene.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, did you do that kind of analysis in this case?

MR. BODZIAK: No, I did not.

MR. GOLDBERG: Why was that?

MR. BODZIAK: There was no shoes that were given to me of the suspects.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, in cases that are submitted to you for analysis at the FBI, since 1973 when you've been working there, can you give us an estimate as to what percent, where they are submitted to you, they do not have shoes of a suspect?

MR. BODZIAK: Approximately forty percent of the case work that is submitted to us initially does not have the shoes of the suspect. A few of those may be submitted later after we provide them additional information.

MR. GOLDBERG: And are there some where the shoes are never recovered?

MR. BODZIAK: Absolutely, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in cases where the shoes are not recovered, is it, nevertheless, possible to do other kind of analysis on the shoes?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, on the--

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that indicated on the chart?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. The second and third portions of the chart draw the attention to those kind of requests we get in situations where we do not have the shoes of a suspect, and we are asked to provide the brand name and manufacturer of the shoe and we do this by accumulating, in a reference collection, thousands of designs of shoes and searching a particular pattern from the crime scene print through that reference collection, and hopefully we will be able to determine the manufacturer and brand name of that shoe. After that, depending on the quality of the impression and the completeness of the impression at the crime scene, as well as the kind of manufacturer of the shoe in question, we may be asked to give either a general estimate of the size and that would be just through a linear measurement, or an actual specific sizing of the shoe by directly working with the manufacturer.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And these last two portions of the chart where you have discussed where it says "Brand name, manufacturer and size of the shoe," did you perform that kind of analysis in this particular case?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. You may resume the stand if you like.

MR. BODZIAK: (Witness complies.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, Mr. Bodziak, returning to your qualifications in the area of shoeprint examination, are you a member of some professional organizations in the area of forensic science?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I am.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have a curricula vitae that summarizes your various experience and training?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: And sir, are you a fellow of the document section of the American Academy of Forensic Science?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I am.

MR. GOLDBERG: Does that have certain entrance requirements?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. It has basic education and experience requirements for entrance. In other words, you would have to be working in that field for a number of years and have people that would recommend you as a viable candidate.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are you also a member of the International Association for Identification since 1988?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I am.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are you a member of any subcommittees of that organization?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. The International Association for Identification, known as the IAI, instead of calling their individual components dedicated to specific areas of forensic science sections, they call them subcommittees, and I'm a member of the subcommittee on footwear and tire track impression evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: And are you a professional member of the American Society of Questioned Document Examiners?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I am.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are you also a certified diplomate of the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I am.

MR. GOLDBERG: And are you associated with the International Association of Forensic Science?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I am.

MR. GOLDBERG: Does that have a formal membership, that organization?

MR. BODZIAK: The International Association of Forensic Science is an international organization which does not have regular membership. It meets every three years in a different country and the organization for that particular meeting is made by the country which hosts it.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you chair any meetings of that organization related to footwear and tire tread type evidence?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. I chaired the section on footwear and tire impression evidence in Vancouver in 1987, and at Adelaide, Australia, in 1990, and in Dusseldorf, Germany, in 1993.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you make presentations at those three meetings?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in addition to your membership in these organizations, do you have also have some teaching experience?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us what that consists of?

MR. BODZIAK: There is a one-week course in the examination of footwear impression evidence at our FBI academy which I have taught since 1983.

MR. GOLDBERG: And have you also published some articles in the area of footwear impression evidence?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I have.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you publish an article that appeared in the FBI law enforcement bulletin entitled "Shoe and tire impression evidence" in 1984?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you publish another article entitled "Manufacture and processes for athletic shoe outsoles and their significance in the examination of footwear impression evidence" in the journal of forensic science in 1986?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you co-author another article entitled "Forensic evaluation of the air bubbles present in polyurethane shoe outsoles as applicable in footwear comparison impressions" also published in the journal of forensic science in 1988?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who did you author that with?

MR. BODZIAK: I authored it with Dorene Music of the Los Angeles Police Department.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is she with their--is she a footprint examiner at that organization?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, she was at the time, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in addition to the article that we just mentioned, did you also author a book entitled footwear impression evidence?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: That was in 1990. That was initially published by Elsevier Science Publishing Company in 1990 and the book rights have been taken over by CRC Press.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, during your involvement in this case, when you first became involved in the case, what type of analysis were you asked to perform?

MR. BODZIAK: Initially I was asked to determine what type of shoe, what brand or manufacturer, type of shoe made the impressions that were located in blood on the Bundy sidewalk.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you consult any reference collections of the sort that you mentioned previously in order to do that?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did. I initially consulted the FBI's reference collection which involves thousands of impressions on computer and in photographs and catalogues, but I was unable to find that particular design.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how long has this reference collection been in existence?

MR. BODZIAK: Well, we have changed it over the years, but it was initially started in 1937 basically as a rubber heel file.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is it a computerized system?

MR. BODZIAK: Part of it is computerized, yes, sir.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. You also were unable to locate the design in your reference catalogue?

MR. BODZIAK: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: After you were unable to locate the design based upon your own resources, did you take some additional steps?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: What did you do?

MR. BODZIAK: In looking at the detail in the shoe impressions in the thirty photographs which I was submitted which were the impressions from the Bundy location, I observed that there were certain features about that shoe that strongly suggested that it was a high end--that is a very expensive Italian brand shoe. So I looked through our written reference material and I identified approximately 75 to 80 manufacturers and importers of high end Italian shoes and some south American shoes or Brazilian shoes, and I prepared a sketch and a--one of the photographs, a composite photograph--excuse me--a composite sketch and three photographs of heel impressions from the Bundy scene, along with a letter, and contacted those manufacturers and importers to see if they recognized or knew the origin of that particular design.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you get any information back as a result of that?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. On August 17th I received a reply from a Mr. Peter Grueterich of the Bruno Magli Uma Shoe Store in New Jersey.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did he send you anything?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. He sent me two shoes that were left over from a Bruno Magli distribution of his in 1991 and 1992. These were both right shoes. One was a size 9 and a half and one was a size 12. And I believe from looking at them they were probably samples that were just left over.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, at this time I would like to mark as People's next in order a chart.

THE COURT: I'm sorry, 374.

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes, 374, a chart that is entitled "Bruno Magli" and it has Lorenzo and Lyon shoes.

THE COURT: So marked.

(Peo's 374 for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: Mr. Bodziak, directing your attention to People's 374 for identification, do you recognize that?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is that?

MR. BODZIAK: These are enlarged photographs on the right side of the Lorenzo at the top and the Lyon or Lyon at the bottom. The differences between those two shoes is the Lorenzo has a higher heel collar to it and the Lyon or Lyon has a lower cut as a conventional shoe would have, and those shoes were sent to me by Mr. Grueterich. The retail of those was approximately $160.00, and they were Bruno Magli shoes distributed in 1991 and `92 in six different colors. The colors were white, black, brown, blue, brandy and olive.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are there any design features of the shoe that you can point out to us of significance in terms of your analysis?

MR. BODZIAK: Only the point that I've already mentioned, that the Lorenzo and Lyon are different primarily was because one is more of a high-top shoe and the Lyon or Lyon is a lower cut around the heel.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. You actually received the shoes themselves?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And at this time I would like to mark as People's 375 for identification a box and its contents of Bruno Magli shoes.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: All right. The box and contents, Bruno Magli shoes, 375.

(Peo's 375 for id = box & contents/shoes)

MR. GOLDBERG: I'm going to write a little "375" on the top of the box.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, showing you People's 375 for identification, can you tell us what that is?

MR. BODZIAK: Exhibit 375 are the two shoes, the Lyon or Lyon and the Lorenzo, which were submitted to me by Mr. Peter Grueterich and which were left over from the shipment or distribution of those shoes in 1991 and 1992.

MR. GOLDBERG: And if you can hold up one of them again, I think it is the Lorenzo, it appears to be faded a little bit on one side?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. The left side of this shoe is much darker than the right side, which appears to maybe have been in a window and is somewhat discolored.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Is that the condition they were in when you got them?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in addition to the information that you sent out that you just told us about to these shoe manufacturers, did you send out any other inquirers to law enforcement agencies?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Also sending--I sent an inquiry to eight international laboratories which I knew had computerized reference collections such as the FBI and I sent them pictures of the sole of the shoe as well as the pictures from the crime scene, a couple pictures from the crime scene at Bundy, and asked them the same question, could they identify the brand name or manufacturer of this shoe.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were any of those countries with computerized systems similar to the FBI's able to provide you with any information?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Seven of them responded and said they did not have this shoe in their collection. The eighth one, the national police agency in Tokyo, Japan, responded and advised that they had a shoe that they had obtained from a merchant of this design that was distributed in Europe and was made in Italy.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, as a result of the information that you have just talked to us about, did you determine who the manufacturer was of the Bruno Magli shoe?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Well, if I could comment on the bottom of the shoe, which has the manufacturer's name on it?

MR. GOLDBERG: Sure.

MR. BODZIAK: The bottom of the shoe has design elements--may I step down?

THE COURT: You may.

MR. BODZIAK: The bottom of the shoe has design elements which are repeated across the entire sole area, as well as the heel, and these design elements, which repeat after one another across the width and length of the shoe, are identical in size in both the heel and the sole, and they are surrounded by a perimeter, a little raised line, and then there is an outer perimeter which does not actually touch the surface of the ground, but which is a little bit raised but can touch it if there is enough weight or other factors. The same is true of the heel. And the leading edge of the heel is curved and has the notch cut off of the medial side, the inner side. This is a reverse photograph so this is actually the left--an enlargement of the left shoe, and this would be the outside of the body and this would be the inside to the right as you look at it, (Indicating). And in the center arch area also is the name "Bruno Magli," that is b-r-u-n-o m-a-g-l-I, as well as the capital "M" for Bruno Magli, their logo in the middle of that, and at the very bottom in the shadow here, which is probably hard to see, is the words "Made in Italy" and up in the top corner here is the word "Silga," s-I-l-g-a, which to answer your question, this is the manufacturer in Italy of this outsole.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, is that common in the footwear industry, that the company whose name goes on the shoe doesn't necessarily have their own factories that they own?

MR. BODZIAK: That is very common in the footwear industry, to have one company make the outsoles and sell those to another company that will then create the upper, which are attached and glued and stitched to the bottoms.

MR. GOLDBERG: So what is the Bruno Magli company? If it is not a shoe factory, it is a what?

MR. BODZIAK: Well, it may also be a shoe factory, but they may--I don't know their full habits of purchasing, but with regard to this shoe, they had this mold made by Silga for their shoes and these molds--these molded bottoms which were sent to another factory which is called 4C also in Italy, in the same area of Italy, and then the uppers were stitched and placed into the bottom and made and sold as a shoe.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, after you made these determinations, Mr. Bodziak--and you can resume the stand, if you like.

MR. BODZIAK: (Witness complies.)

MR. GOLDBERG: --as to the manufacturer of the sole of the Bruno Magli shoe and also the upper, did you decide to visit the factories, these two factories?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And before getting into that, did you have some training and experience specifically in shoe manufacturing?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Over the years, since the late seventies, I have been to approximately--footwear manufacturers approximately 25 occasions.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what is the purpose of trying to gather information about how shoes are manufactured from the standpoint of a forensic shoe examiner?

MR. BODZIAK: In some cases the purpose is because of the need to, in a particular case that I might be working, but as a general training tool it is important to learn the various ways that shoes can be manufactured, because there is quite a lot of differences between a direct attach injection molded shoe or a cut shoe that is made of unvulcanized rubber or a composition molded shoe.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And are you able to use this information in your analysis in determining shoe size that left impressions at a crime scene?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, is this something that you are routinely able to do based on that kind of information and other information?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, do we have some charts that can be used in order for you to illustrate for us how it is that this kind of a determination of shoe size can be made?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to mark as People's 276 for identification--excuse me--376, a chart entitled "Determination of shoe size."

THE COURT: So marked.

(Peo's 376 for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, directing your attention to People's 2--excuse me--376 for identification, do you recognize that?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: And can you tell us what the top portion of the chart under "Nonspecific sizing" refers to?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Nonspecific sizing is what I would label as instances when we were submitted partial impressions from a crime scene or impressions that we could never specifically identify as having been made by a specific manufacturer, and because of those characteristics, not being able to link them to a specific manufacturer, we would only be able to give an estimate and sometimes a very rough estimate, of the approximate size based on the impressions that we had from the crime scene. And this would be, like I say, a very rough estimate, but in responsible specific sizing would be what I would call that.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in cases where you do have the information as to who manufactured the shoe, what can you do?

MR. BODZIAK: In that case we can specifically size the shoe if it has been made in certain manners. If it has been cut from a sheet of goods and then just glued to the bottom, that is usually not possible with an absolutely 100 percent certainty, but if the shoe has been folded and the molds have been made with a hand-milled method, where the person is actually guiding the milling device and creating the molds through their personal direction, as opposed to a computer method, then each of those molds, both in different sizes, as well as molds that may be duplicated in the same sizing, each of those will come out slightly different. And those differences will manifest themselves in impressions at the crime scene and enable a direct comparison to eliminate the molds that did not make the shoe and identify the mold which did make the shoe.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is the testimony that you just gave as to determining a shoe size summarized on this chart?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And using the lower portion of the chart, can you explain for us in a little bit more detail what it is that you can determine from a hand-milled mold?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. I mentioned that the molds would vary because of--

MR. GOLDBERG: Again, if you need to step down, you may.

MR. BODZIAK: I think I can do it from here.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

MR. BODZIAK: The molds would vary, because person's hands would be involved in it, and they would not be directed by a computer, and I placed arrows on two molds here, (Indicating). The drawings represent two molds of the same size, and because a pattern or template is used, it is transferred at a different manner each time when they wrought out or hand mill the mold and the arrows showing the exact resulting positions of the design in this case, the circles and the zigzag or herringbone pattern and where those circles and patterns touch the perimeter of the shoe, those will vary both within the same size and between different sizes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So, for example, on the two shoe sketches, if we are referring to the portion that has the arrow that relates to the zigzag, it appears that the shoe on the left starts with a zag and then has a zig and the other one has a zig and then a zag; is that correct?

MR. BODZIAK: That is your terminology.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

MR. BODZIAK: If I may use the pointer, on the right-hand side, what I was stating is that the zigzag is going in a downward direction in an identical point in the heel where at this same point in the heel it is going in an upward direction and almost parallel to the corner, even though the size and shape features of the zigzag are the same because they are from the same original pattern, it is the point at which they meet the perimeter which most clearly shows the differences. The same would apply to the circle.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Do we have another chart that is designed to indicate how it is that this phenomena occurs with hand-milled molds?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And I would like to mark as People's next in order, it is 377 for identification, a chart entitled "Hand-milled molds or how hand-milled molds are made."

THE COURT: So marked.

(Peo's 377 for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: Directing your attention to the top of this chart, Mr. Bodziak, where it says "A design pattern is used in the hand milling of a mold," what does that refer to?

MR. BODZIAK: What I'm referring to at the top of the chart is basically a pattern or template and this would be, for demonstration purposes, one which had again the zigzag or herringbone pattern and the circles and this would be larger than the resultant molds and it would either be a plastic template or some other type of pattern that the person would use as a reference or guide to control the direction of the wroughting device which would chew out the metal from the steel block and create the actual steel or aluminum mold which the shoe is molded in.

MR. GOLDBERG: And using the bottom portion of the chart, can you indicate for us how it is that this process can result in variations each time you create a mold using that same template?

MR. BODZIAK: What this shows at the bottom, and I have made one of these herringbone rows a different color to draw attention to that, this would be the template, and we will use the yellow or gold line as a reference point, and this would represent the block of steel or aluminum that the hand operator would wrought out in this pattern using this as a pattern device or as a guide. And even though at first look these two shoe designs seem to be the same, looking at the exact configuration and directly--particularly easy to see at the perimeter from one shoe to the next--and specifically looking at the gold line for demonstration purposes, you can see that the resultant pattern is different from one mold to the next, even though they are the same size.

MR. GOLDBERG: So does that mean, sir, that if you have two molds that were created with the same template, that as a forensic shoeprint examiner you would be able to distinguish those two molds?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is that based upon the placement, the exact placement of the mold with respect to the perimeter of the shoe?

MR. BODZIAK: It is based on the fact that in the hand milling process, as opposed to a process where you make duplicate molds from the beginning, or a computer process where the computer of course is going to do exactly the same thing every time with a cadcam device, in the hand milling process each of these patterns will result in a slightly different position each time.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, is there--are there some other factors that you take into account when you are trying to determine shoe sizing of shoes?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, there is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do we have another chart that is designed to illustrate some of those other factors?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And I would like to mark as People's 378 for identification a chart entitled "Other factors contributing to shoe size."

THE COURT: So marked.

(Peo's 378 for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, directing your attention to People's 378 for identification, can you tell us what the top portion of the chart refers to?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. The top portion of the chart depicts what is known in the footwear industry as a last, l-a-s-t, and this is--was originally years ago always in wood, but nowadays it is normally aluminum or a hard plastic, and it is basically a foot form, represents the size and shape of a foot, that would be used to stitch and stretch the upper of the shoe over and then the upper would be tacked around the bottom of it and then that would be placed on top of the molded bottom and that molded bottom would be glued or stitched to the upper.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how is it that this factors into determining the size of a shoe?

MR. BODZIAK: Because the size and shape features of the last are going to denote the width, the height of the instep, the width of the heel, not the bottom of the heal, but the top as well. They are going to be quite a bit different, and high-healed shoes of ladies, versus work boots of a man, versus hip boots, versus athletic shoes, and so those features, because they allow and control the room in the upper of the shoe, they are going to be a factor in the eventual fit of that shoe to a particular person.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what are the other factors that are discussed on this chart?

MR. BODZIAK: The second portion refers just generally to the fact that the physical size and shape as well as size considerations of shoes drastically different, such as high-heel shoes, athletic shoes and work boots, obviously are different because of the type of construction, even though they might accommodate the same size foot.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And what is the choice of which sizing system is used refer to?

MR. BODZIAK: The choice of which sizing system is used is the common sizing systems used in the world. The top row which is labeled "Centimeter" and the bottom row which is measured in inches, they are just linear measurements for reasons, they are not sizing methods. But the Europe, method which goes from zero to 48 on this chart, if I can see from it here, and the English or British system, the United Kingdom and the American size for men and then the U.S. ladies sizes are laid down in this diagram or chart showing the relative conversion factors or equivalents. For instance, if I may step down--

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sure.

MR. BODZIAK: The--for instance, a size 42 European--let me first say that the distance between each size in the European is different than the distance between each size in the English and American. The difference in sizes between English and American are each a third of an inch, each size for half size, but the European is different, so when trying to--when an American person travels to Europe and they go to buy a shoe that is made for a European market and not to be sold in America, they will have to look at the sizes, such as 38, 40, 42 and so forth, and try to find the American equivalent size that they normally would wear in America, and that would be a starting point for them in trying on shoes to see if that shoe fit. For instance, looking at a 42, it coincidentally lines up very well with the British size 8, but not very well with the American size, more like an eight and a half or in between an eight and an eight and a half, but the 38--excuse me--the 40 coincidentally lines up just right with the American. A 44 is a little bit more than an American 10 and a 46 falls between the 11 and a half and 12, and so those would simply be equivalents, so if you were to go into a shoe store in America, you might find on the label U.S. size 10, and then also perhaps the United Kingdom size, the equivalent and the European equivalent.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, are these comparisons that you have just made between the European and American sizes such that you know for sure that any given European shoe of a particular size can automatically be converted to an American shoe--

MR. BODZIAK: No, because--

MR. GOLDBERG: --using this conversion method?

MR. BODZIAK: Because of the fact that there are other factors in the shoe in addition to just the size of the sole, and the fact that in most instances the European size doesn't line up directly with the American or British size, there would have to be some decision as to which size that shoe would be made on and what it would be called.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And are there some other factors that are--in addition to the ones that are on this chart--that also go into the issue of shoe size?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, there are. May I--

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. There is other factors. One that is very important is the personal preference for fit. Some people, for instance, if they are buying a soccer shoe, may prefer it to be very tight. If they are buying a dress shoe, they may prefer it to be loose so they don't have to go into that breaking-in. If the shoe is in very expensive leather shoe, they may know in a couple wears it will be very soft and pliable and very much to their foot and they may like that fit, so they may intentionally buy it a little snug, so there is a lot of factors involving personal preference that play into account.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Would it be just fair to say, to summaries this issue of shoe sizing, that there are more factors that go into it than a lay person might imagine?

MR. BODZIAK: Absolutely.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, did you receive some additional evidence from Bruno Magli and Silga companies in terms of some sole sample?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who was that from?

MR. BODZIAK: I contacted the Silga company, which is on the eastern side of Italy, and which possessed the ten molds from size 38 to size 47 of this design, and I obtained samples in the range of 42 through 47 for comparison purposes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, at this time I would like to mark as People's 379 for identification a series of outsoles 42 through 47. They are in a box, so it would be the box and its contents.

THE COURT: All right. Box and its contents, 379.

(Peo's 379 for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: I will write a "379" on it. I wrote it on the piece of paper.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, showing you People's 379 for identification--here, let me take the shoes-- sir, can you show us what you received from Silga?

MR. BODZIAK: Do you want me to haul them all out?

MR. GOLDBERG: Sure. Just take one out just to describe for us what it is that you got.

MR. BODZIAK: Okay.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how it factored into your analysis.

MR. BODZIAK: Okay. The--this is the--this is the compression molded sole and I received a left and right for size 42, 43, 44, 45, 46 and 47. The company refers to it as their U2887 mold and that is molded in the back of it, as well as the European size. The European size is on this sole because it is made in Italy, which is of course Europe, and so that is the sizing system that they would typically put on their molds and their soles when they make it. This is the same size sole. This one is a 47, which was on one of the prior displays, and shows the different design elements and the different aspects of this shoe design.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

MR. BODZIAK: For instance, this is a size 42 and there is quite a bit of difference between the 42 and the 46, and it is that reason that I did not ask for the 38, 39, 40 and 41, because they were literally tiny compared to the larger impressions that we had.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now--

THE COURT: Mr. Bodziak, may I see one of those, please?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you, on January the 23rd of 1995, actually go to Italy to visit the Silga factory and the 4C factory?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And which facility did you go to first?

MR. BODZIAK: I went to the Silga factory first where they actually have the molds and through a compression molding process manufacture the--what I call the outsole or the sole unit of the shoe.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do we have another chart with some photographs on it to show you what saw when you were observed the manufacturing process at Silga and then 4C?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, we do.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to mark that as 370--excuse me--380 for identification.

THE COURT: 380.

(Peo's 380 for id = chart)

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, sir, showing you this diagram--excuse me--this series of photographs and the top part that says "Silga, factory A, B and C," using those photographs can you describe for us what you saw when you were observing the manufacturing process of the Silga sole?

MR. BODZIAK: Okay. I would like to point to a few things if I might.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sure.

MR. BODZIAK: The top three pictures are pictures that I took at the Silga factory in Italy. On the left it shows a bottom and top of a compression mold. The point I'm pointing to, which is to the right or actually in the center of the photograph, is the bottom of the mold and that is the part of the mold which would have the pattern and design and also the logo that says "Bruno Magli" in it. And to the left in the southwest corner of this photograph is the upper, and that would be the portion which puts the design in the back of the sole, sort of a honeycomb design. And just to the right of it, (Indicating), a couple of soles which happened to be there at the time, and this is known as compression molding or an open mold process, because like a waffle iron, they will put the pre-measured rubber in this mold cavity with this portion over top of it and they will mold it. It will melt and conform each time to the exact size and shape features and come out of the mold the same size and shape each time. In the photograph marked B at the top is a close-up showing the heel cavity of one of these molds, and in particular showing the word "Made in Italy" which I previously pointed to on the outsole, which are just in front of the heel. And also there is an oval area and removed--that is normally where the name goes, Bruno Magli, but the slug which is removed is sitting next to that mold and this was the purpose of taking this picture, was to show that this can be removed. The factory has another set of slugs which have the name lord, l-o-r-d, on them and that was the name on the shoe that the national police agency in Japan had identified as part of their reference collection from Europe. There is a little circular area between the heel and the oval area, and this--at this point it is blank, but if these shoe soles were made in Europe, the European size, such as 42, 46, 47, would go there if they desired to have them on the bottoms. There was one other name that they did have that went into this area, I can never remember how to spell it, but it is a-n-t-I-c-a, and I believe the last name is c-o-u-r-I-c-i-a or c-a, and it basically means tradition of fine shoe making in Italian, I'm told, and it was only for the display shoes, they had never sold a shoe with that name on it. And they only had a couple of those slugs. They didn't have them for every mold. On the right under C on the chart, (Indicating), is a compression molding oven, and once the biscuit of rubber has been put in the cavity of the mold and this top has come down and placed on top of it, it will then be pushed into this oven and the oven will close and under heat and pressure it will cause the melting of that biscuit of rubber and the resultant rubber sole in the same size and shape each time. I obtained a pair of these size 46 soles and hand carried them to the Silga factory--I'm sorry--the 4C factory.

MR. GOLDBERG: Hold on for a second. I had a couple of questions I wanted to ask about the Silga.

MR. BODZIAK: Sure.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you were at Silga did you look at only one mold or a variety of the molds?

MR. BODZIAK: I examined all of the molds from size 38 to 47.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Then when you left Silga what did you have with you?

MR. BODZIAK: I had a pair of size 46 left and right soles.

MR. GOLDBERG: And where did you go with those?

MR. BODZIAK: I then went to the 4C factory, which was a few miles down the road, and that is the factory which Bruno Magli had commissioned to make the upper of their shoes and glue those uppers to the molded soles. Picture number D shows in the background, slightly out of focus, a shoe that is being--the glue is being applied to, and in the foreground in the center of the photograph, the outsole, which is having some glue applied to it. This glue is applied, it is allowed to cure and then before the two are put together, it is reactivated with heat to give sort of a contact cement arrangement. In photograph E the person there is taking an upper of the shoe and right next to his thumb is a little bit of green that you can see and that is part of the last that was used that had the upper of the shoe stitched around.

MR. GOLDBERG: So the green thing is actually inside the shoe?

MR. BODZIAK: Well, part of the last which you can see over on F, and he is taking the molded rubber sole from Silga that has had glue applied and he is pressing them together very carefully to position them right. He is then going to put them in this machine to the right which will apply uniform pressure for a period of time to assure that the contact with that cement is complete. After that, in order to get the shoe which is very tight stretched around that last off of the last, it is turned over and put on this metal rod which has a little pin coming up that fits into a hole in the last and the toe of the shoe is pushed upward which breaks this last down in a manner that you would if you were sliding your foot out of the shoe and it allows them to remove the shoe from the last and of course put the shoelaces on and sell the shoes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, why is it that this particular shoe is in leather, as opposed to suede?

MR. BODZIAK: Well, when I went to the factory, of course they were to longer making the shoes that were only made in 1991 and `92 for Bruno Magli. They are still making--these are Bruno Magli shoes. They are the same lasts. This is a size American 12 last, and they are making the shoes for the same company in the same style, but they are--they do not have the same leather material of course that they had, which was a softer suede leather back in `91 and `92. They are now using a harder pebble grain material.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to the photograph that is letter F on this chart, the item there that is depicted as the last--is that correct?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you actually obtain one of those?

MR. BODZIAK: I obtained two of them.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Did you bring those back to the United States?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: You can resume the witness stand.

MR. BODZIAK: (Witness complies.)

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to mark as People's 381 for identification, two lasts.

THE COURT: All right. 381, shoe lasts.

(Peo's 381 for id = shoe lasts)

MR. GOLDBERG: And they are in a bag--excuse me. They are in a shoe box that is in a brown paper wrapping and I will place the exhibit no. 381 on the brown paper wrapping. May I approach?

THE COURT: You may.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, showing you 381 for identification, can you remove the contents of the package and tell us what you are doing.

MR. BODZIAK: (Witness complies.) Exhibit 381 is the pair of lasts which were used to make the shoes that I observed being made at the Silga and 4C factory. The outsole size that I observed being used at that time was the size--European size 46 sole, and these lasts are--even though they are made in Europe, are graded with an American size 12, and the reason for that is the American grading system for shoes takes into account more measurements and variations than the European lasting system which normally shoes in Europe are only available perhaps in one width, maybe two widths. So because these are quality shoes, they are very expensive shoes that are made with leather, to have or to be produced with a high quality, they use the American grading system and American lasts. On the side of one of these lasts was written when I observed it in the factory, in addition to size 12, was written the number "46."

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Can you place one of those lasts perhaps in the size 46 outsole just so that we can see how they compare.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir. (Witness complies.)

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, based upon all of the information that you had from your visit to Italy from the lasts and the soles and the photographs of the Bundy crime scene location, were you able to form an opinion regarding the size of the shoe--the size of the shoes that caused the shoeprints at Bundy location?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I was.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is that opinion?

MR. BODZIAK: That size was an American size 12 with the European size 46 sole attached to it.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, do you have some additional charts that are designed to show the basis of that opinion and how you arrived at it specifically?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: Directing your attention to what I would like to mark as People's next in order, a chart entitled "Reversed"--excuse me--"Reverse shoe sole chart," 382 for identification, your Honor?

THE COURT: So marked.

(Peo's 382 for id = chart)

THE COURT: Mr. Goldberg, 10:30.

MR. GOLDBERG: Excuse me?

THE COURT: 10:30.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, directing your attention to this exhibit, it is People's 382 for identification. Can you tell us what this is?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. On the top of the chart are reverse photographs, approximately two-time enlargements of photographs that I took of the left soles from size 42 through 47. By "Reverse" I mean that they were photographed and then the negative was reversed and the reason for doing that is so that the--it is as if as if you were looking down through the shoe and the same configuration as if the shoeprint was being laid on a two-dimensional surface and it also makes the comparisons easier for test impressions which are of course made in that manner. So these are reverse photographs, approximately two-time enlargements of soles 42 through 47, and on the bottom of the chart is a very small portion of a test impression made with each of these soles and it--the test impression represents the area which has the red rectangle around it on the sole above it. So on the left of the chart is the corner of the heel of the left shoe in a six-time enlargement demonstration configuration, and to the right of that is the 43 and so forth, all the way to the 47.

MR. GOLDBERG: Using this--

MR. BODZIAK: Go ahead.

MR. GOLDBERG: Using this chart can you describe for us how it was that you were able to make a determination regarding shoe size?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Because of what I had mentioned before, the differences between the molds of each size, because they are hand-milled and because there is only in this case one mold for each size, I'm using this as a demonstration of showing how the pattern, drawing your attention to the upper corner of this, how the pattern will vary in the respective areas of each of these soles. This is true of all areas of the heel and all areas of the sole, but for demonstration purposes you can see that the pattern is in a different position, even though the pattern remains the same size. Each individual design element is the same size.

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, if you take, let's say, 42 and 43, just for illustration purposes, can you demonstrate for us how the impression for 42 corresponds to the sole for 42?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And then also the differences with 43.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. The--I don't know if the sole is large enough to be seen, but looking first then at the impression, there is a fragment of part of the design element on the left border, a certain distance from the top curved portion of the heel, and then this is this curved area between that design element and the other half of the design element and so you can see that there is a respective portion of this design corresponds with that area on the left shoe, size 42. And the reason it corresponds is because the impression the shoe leaves makes physical contact with the surface and the physics of contact ensure that this pattern is going to be reproduced. In other words, this pattern is going to represent these features precisely. You wouldn't have this shoe making a pattern that agreed with one of the other shoes, and then looking at the same area in 43, you can see that the--there is a much bigger part of this area, this curved area has got a lot of design between it and the perimeter. This is moved out a lot further and you are starting to get the angulation here of other aspects of that design and this is an angle you have here as well, (Indicating), and this represents precisely what you have in the respective area of the size 43 sole. Looking to the far right, between the 47 and the 46, in the instance of the 47, to the far right, the manufacturer of the molds forgot to route the border, that is, this line, raised line around the shoe and so the designed is opened, there is no connecting border, and that is very, very obvious in the impression. And then looking to the left of 47, looking at the 46 impression at the bottom, there is just a drastic difference between the design positions in those shoes whereas these are a little bit closer but still distinctly different.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, this was done for illustration purposes I take it?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: But could you have done the same thing with different parts of the shoe and made the same kind of illustration of how you can distinguish from 42 through 47?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I could have done it with both shoes and I could very well done it for each part of the shoes, but because I would have to make these so large to see for demonstration purpose I chose to just illustrate one as an example.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have another exhibit chart showing one of the shoeprints or actually two of the shoeprints at Bundy location and how you engaged in an analysis to determine the size of those shoes?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to mark that as People's 383 for identification, your Honor. It is called "Shoeprint comparison" chart.

THE COURT: Yes.

(Peo's 383 for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, directing your attention to this chart that is entitled "Shoeprint comparison," can you illustrate for us how it was you were able to make your comparison? Maybe you can start with one of the two shoeprints.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, may I step down?

MR. GOLDBERG: And move on to the other. Yes, please.

MR. BODZIAK: (Witness complies.) Okay. The chart entitled "Shoeprint" comparison on the left side has one of the photographs which I examined which is a bloody shoeprint from the Bundy location. At the crime scene it was marked shoeprint E, the Los Angeles Police Department called it shoeprint E and the FBI--in my report I referred to it as Q107. It is an impression of both the sole and heel. On the right side is another shoeprint which I marked FBI Q68 and which was down in the lower walkway area at the very entrance, inside the gate, and that is of a heel impression. And if whatever impression would have been up here, (Indicating), would have been--if an impression had been laid down up here, it would have been interfered with by the other blood in that area, so you can really only see the heel impression on FBI Q68. In the middle is an approximate two-time enlargement of one of the test impressions I made of the left shoe using the European sole size 46, and attached to shoeprints E and the shoeprint on the right and the left of the chart, are transparencies that are made from the same test impression that is in the center, and this allows, in the comparison and demonstration process of superimposing the features that are left in test impressions of the size 46 and other size soles, over top of the impressions that are examined at the crime scene. And by putting these over these impressions, the precise configuration of the design elements, as I had mentioned before, and how they meet the borders where they are visible in this print, as well as the design element and fragments of the border which were up in this area and made from respective areas of the shoe, correspond, and also FBI Q68, the heel impression, the overlay demonstrates that as well. You can place this overlay back and forth and see the corresponding pattern agrees. Using this method I was able to take the size 42 through 47 shoes of both left and right and I was able to make test impressions through direct physical contact in a transparency form. I was able to place these over the crime scene impressions and determine which size of the European soles made that impression and eliminate the others. And in doing so, with regard to these two, I determined the left size 46 sole positively made the impressions and the 42 through 45 and 47 soles could positively be eliminated.

MR. GOLDBERG: And with respect to the print on the right that says "Shoeprints FBI Q68" even though only a heel of that is visible, you were able to determine that was a 46 European sole?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: How?

MR. BODZIAK: Because the heels, like the rest of the shoe, are distinctly different and so no other heel in the other sizes could have made that impression.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were you able to determine whether these shoe prints were made with a shoe that was manufactured on that precise mold that you saw at the Silga factory, the 46 mold?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it was--it had to have been made in that mold. There would be no other mold like it. So it was made--the shoe that made the impressions that I have addressed here, Q107 and Q68, were positively shoes that came from the Silga mold size 46.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I was going to move on to another topic now. Do you want me to do that, given that it is only 25 minutes after the hour?

THE COURT: Well, I will leave to it your discretion. Counsel, do you want to forge ahead or do you want to take a break at this point?

MR. GOLDBERG: Perhaps we could take a break with the Court's permission.

THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are go going to take our mid-morning recess at the time. Please remember all my admonitions to you. Don't discuss the case amongst yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you, do not allow anybody to communicate with you with regard to the case. We will stand in recess for 15. Mr. Bodziak, you may step down.

(Recess.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. All parties are again present. Counsel, anything we need to take up before we invite the jurors to rejoin us? I take that as a no. Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please.

(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Mr. Bodziak, would you resume the witness stand, please. Mr. Bill Bodziak is on the witness stand undergoing direct examination by Mr. Goldberg. Mr. Goldberg, you may continue with your direct examination.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you, your Honor.

MR. GOLDBERG: Mr. Bodziak, were you provided with any item in order to determine what the Defendant's shoe size was?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I was.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what were you provided with?

MR. BODZIAK: I was provided with a pair of Reebok shoes that the Defendant wore.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, at this time, I'd like to mark as People's next in order, it would be 384 for identification. And I'm going to write a 384 on the exterior of the package, the package and its contents of what appear to be Reebok tennis shoes.

THE COURT: So marked.

(Peo's 384 for id = Reebok tennis shoes)

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, showing you People's 384 for identification, can you remove the item from that package and tell us what you're doing?

MR. BODZIAK: (The witness complies.) 384 is a pair of Reebok shoes, white in color, what I would call a low profile that were represented to me as the shoes of the Defendant.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what did you do with those Reebok shoes?

MR. BODZIAK: I made measurements of the exterior length of the sole as best I could without cutting the tops off. I made measurements of the inner length of the insole and I made a direct physical comparison between them and a size 12 Bruno Magli shoe.

MR. GOLDBERG: What size did you determine the Reebok shoes to be?

MR. BODZIAK: Oh, the Reeboks are labeled U.S. size 12.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, sir, in making a determination of the Defendant's shoe size, could the--why not just measure the Defendant's feet instead of doing this?

MR. BODZIAK: Because of the factors of personal preference of fit and other factors which come into consideration, measuring the feet would not be the most accurate way of determining shoe size.

MR. GOLDBERG: In terms of getting an idea of personal preference and fit, did you write a letter to Detective Lange and Vannatter about wanting another search to take place in order to inventory all of the Defendant's shoes?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Why was that that you wanted that?

MR. BODZIAK: Well, I thought it would be more thorough to look at all of the shoes. But the shoes I had I did make a comparison of.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is this a fair comparison between the Reeboks and the Bruno Maglis?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you need to have the complete inventory in order to render certain opinions as to whether or not the Defendant would be a candidate for having left the shoeprints at the Bundy crime scene?

MR. BODZIAK: I'm sorry. Could you rephrase that?

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you need to have additional information other than what you have right now in order to be able to render an opinion as to whether the Defendant could have deposited the shoeprints at Bundy?

MR. BODZIAK: That he would be a viable candidate?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.

MR. BODZIAK: No. What I have is sufficient.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, can you show us in terms of a demonstration here what you did to compare the Reeboks to the Bruno Magli shoes that you had?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. I had a size 12 right Bruno Magli shoe, the one which was from the original shipment from Bruno Magli in New Jersey that Mr. Peter Grueterich had provided to me, and that is marked 12 in--U.S. 12 and was the shoe that was made on the American 12 last with the 46 sole. And I took this shoe and made the same linear measurements of the outer sole and inner sole and found that they were within a couple millimeters of one another. Essentially they were the same. And I took the shoes and, matching the heel and the toes, compared the dimensions of those shoes and found that they were of similar construction and were for all practical purposes identical in the size and shape features. In other words, the person wearing one certainly would be a candidate for wearing the other. When I say the construction is similar, I had mentioned that the Bruno Magli shoe was what's called a cup sole. In other words, it's a--I guess because it could hold water, it comes up around the edge, and you--that particular type of shoe construction in this case was compression molded, and with regard to the Reebok shoe, there's also a cup sole. In this case, it's cut down in the midline of the shoe on the medial and lateral portion of it. And that's referred to in the industry as a half cup sole, but the construction is the same. And this also would be compression molded and it would--the sole would be molded separately and the upper would be lasted and lowered down and glued and stitched to the out sole. So these shoes are viable for a comparison in terms of the dimensions and the shapes of them.

MR. GOLDBERG: And you said you also did the linear interior measurements.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And for the record, your Honor, when he was doing his demonstration in court, he held the Bruno Magli size 12 which--shoe which comes from the box 375 up against the Reeboks which comes from the bag and its contents, which was 384 for identification, held them together with the soles, and they appeared to be the same dimension.

THE COURT: So noted.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, sir, in your book, footwear impression evidence, did you discuss any materials relating shoe size to height?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you also do a study yourself of that issue?

MR. BODZIAK: I did a study which was concerning the bare feet impressions and bare foot dimensions of people, and part of that study reflected a chart which related the size of a person's foot to their height.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I'd like to mark as People's 385 for identification a page out of Mr. Bodziak's book, just the chart portion. It says "Height calculation chart."

THE COURT: What page is that from, counsel?

MR. GOLDBERG: Let me double-check because I cut it off on the Xerox. It was in chapter 6, Mr. Bodziak?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: The first chart is on 175. Could we have this, your Honor, as 3--

THE COURT: --85.

MR. GOLDBERG: --85-A?

THE COURT: 385-A.

(Peo's 385-A for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: And I wrote a 385-A on the piece of paper.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, I would like to show you People's 385-A and have you identify that for us. We're going to project it up on the screen. I think you have a--

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: That's supposed to be a 385-A, your Honor, that I wrote on there. Looks more like a 383.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, what is that?

MR. BODZIAK: This is a chart entitled, "Height calculation chart." It reflects a study conducted by inspector Mike Cassidy of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and it was first published in his book in 1980.

MR. GOLDBERG: And in terms of his study, what findings did he make regarding a size 12 shoes?

MR. BODZIAK: This particular chart was to relate the range of height of people in his study to a shoe size; and for the size 12 shoe, he has the range of height as six feet to six foot four inches.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And that's indicated on the chart where he has six feet to 6/4 and then right underneath, there's a 12. It's the third item down from the right?

MR. BODZIAK: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, if we could mark as People's 385-B for identification Mr. Bodziak's chart which is on page 174 of his book.

(Peo's 385-B for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, showing you what we've just marked as People's 385-B for identification, do you recognize this?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is it?

MR. BODZIAK: This is a chart which I prepared as part of the survey of a total of 500 people, 399 which were males, and it reflects the correlation between the shoe size of a person and the height of that person.

MR. GOLDBERG: And does one of the lines on this chart pertain to an American size 12 shoe?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it does.

MR. GOLDBERG: And can we zoom in on that perhaps? All right. Well, now we don't really have any reference point.

MR. GOLDBERG: But with respect to your study, sir, what findings did you make with respect to the height of men that wear size 12 shoes?

MR. BODZIAK: The height range was 71 to 77 inches.

MR. GOLDBERG: 71 being 5/11?

MR. BODZIAK: 5/11 to six foot five.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, have there also been studies that have been done related to what percentage of the American population wears a size 12 shoe?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, there is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what findings have been made along those lines?

MR. BODZIAK: There's a group called footwear market insights which publishes their study of approximately 260 to 300 million pairs of shoes sold in this country, and they break down the various shoe sizes and widths of the shoes sold, and this is produced for the footwear industry for their use.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what percentage wear size 12 shoes?

MR. BODZIAK: Counting all of the shoes sold, a general percentage is slightly over 9 percent for size 12.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did they have a breakdown with dress shoes as opposed to casual shoes and so on?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, they did.

MR. GOLDBERG: It was a very slight difference?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. There was like .1 to maybe .4 percent depending on whether it was an athletic shoe or formal dress shoe or a woman's shoe or something.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, with respect to the items that you looked at from the Bundy location, did you actually see footprints at Bundy or did you look at them and analyze them through photographs?

MR. BODZIAK: I looked at them through photographs.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is it common for you to analyze footprints using photographs?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are there problems that you've encountered generally speaking?

MR. BODZIAK: There can be problems with photographs if the photographs aren't taken properly. If the photograph is out of focus, if there's no scale in the photograph, if the photographs are taken at a sharp angle, then of course, the ability to interpret and make a direct physical comparison is hindered. And so in that respect, photographs, if not taken properly, can be a problem.

MR. GOLDBERG: How common is it for you to have difficulties in trying to make interpretations from photographs that are submitted to you by a variety of law enforcement agencies?

MR. BODZIAK: It's not uncommon at all for us to get photographs that are far from what we would like to have.

MR. GOLDBERG: And in terms of the photographs that you were provided by the Los Angeles Police Department that were taken for comparison purposes, what was the quality of those photographs in terms of being able to do a comparison?

MR. BODZIAK: Yeah. I--the photographs that were taken of the footwear impressions at this scene were taken in a prescribed method in as much as they were taken from directly over top with the film plane parallel to the ground. They were taken with a linear scale such as a ruler with a finely divided scale on it, and that would be for use to enlarge those photographs back up to the natural size, the exact size that those appeared at at the crime scene. And they were taken all in focus. All of the ones which I saw were in focus, and they also used both color and black and white with--which in regard to blood impressions, is often very useful to have both because in some instances, the color will assist the interpretation of the photograph.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were there any photographs that captured footprints that were not taken in that manner? In other words, that were not for comparison purposes, but just happened to capture a footprint?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. There was one--there was one photograph which I had enlargements made of which was on the step, one of the steps near the front gate, and that was taken at an angle with a--without a ruler next to the impressions. And I don't think the intention when that photograph was taken was necessarily for those impressions, but it's the only photograph I saw those depicted in. And then there were some other impressions which were photographed going down steps near the back of the walkway, and those were not really full impressions of any comparison value, but rather just rubbings of blood over the corner of the steps. And so it wasn't essential to have them taken in that method.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, did you eventually visit the crime scene on February the 15th of this year?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you go alone or with someone?

MR. BODZIAK: I went there with Dennis Fung and with Vic Patrozoni.

MR. GOLDBERG: For what purpose were you going there?

MR. BODZIAK: I went there to take the photographs, the natural size photographs I had of those footwear impressions to confirm the orientation. In other words, the direction, east versus west or north, direction they were heading and determine for preparation purposes of a chart the tiles that they were on or the various steps that they were on.

MR. GOLDBERG: And were you able to do that?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I was.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what did you do when you were at the crime scene in terms of looking at the photograph and the crime scene in order to determine that relationship? Were you looking at tiles or--

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: --what?

MR. BODZIAK: Because of the irregularity of the tiles, the concrete tiles and cracks and blemishes in the surface of the concrete and the steps of the tiles, it was very easy to confirm precisely which photograph came from which portion of the sidewalk.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, before getting into the Bundy crime scene in a little more detail, do you also have a chart that's been prepared to show generally speaking how footprints can be deposited at a crime scene?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: And I'd like to mark as People's next in order a chart that's entitled "Footwear impressions after stepping in liquid." That is going to be People's 386 for identification, your Honor?

THE COURT: So marked.

(Peo's 386 for id = chart)

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, directing your attention to the chart that we've just marked as People's 386 for identification, the top portion, can you describe for us what that's showing?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. The top portion is an artist's rendering of what occurs when a person tracks or walks through liquid. And liquid could be water, liquid could be blood, liquid could be grease or any--oil or any other type of opaque material which would adhere to the shoe and then be laid down as the person took the next succession of steps. And what this depicts and what actually happens is, the first step after leaving this liquid, the impression is very dark because it has a fresh coating of this material on it. And as the foot presses down, it presses that liquid out to the different edges of each design element and therefore removing some of that liquid from the surface. So the next step that would be taken with that foot would be lighter. It would not be--would not have as much material in it, so it would be lighter. And eventually as you continue the walk, there will no longer be any impressions being left because all of that material will be off the flat surface. The surface that normally touches the ground will no longer have that material on it. There may be--in the case of blood or water or any other lipid liquid, there may be other material up in the cracks and crevices and the little edges, but not on the surface that typically leaves the impression.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in terms of the impressions that we have here under where it says, "The detail--the degree of detail retained in the impression varies," did you create those test impressions?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And I assume you didn't use blood in--

MR. BODZIAK: No. I used a blue color latex paint.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, on occasions, have you made impressions that were actually in blood, test impressions?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. I make them all of the time for classes which I teach where we then enhance those impressions in blood and also to demonstrate what I've just described where the impressions get slightly lighter and eventually disappear.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, on these three test impressions that you made, were these consecutive? In other words, was the one on the left-hand side of diagram no. 1, the one in the middle, 2, and the one on the right, 3, or were there ones in-between?

MR. BODZIAK: No. This particular chart, this is a computer scanning of the actual--of a photograph, black and white photograph of the actual impressions, the low one on the left being no. 1 for the right foot, the one in the middle being the second time the right foot struck the ground and the one on the right being the third time the right foot struck the ground.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you give us an estimation as to how quickly footprints in blood may disappear to the point where you wouldn't see anything that you could recognize as a shoeprint, you might just see lines or squiggles or whatever?

MR. BODZIAK: There will be things that cause variables, that is the porosity of the surface, the amount of blood that's initially stepped on, whether it's a pool of blood or whether it's blood that has already been coating the surfaces, is rather flat, which wouldn't be as three dimensional. But if there's a heavy coating of blood, it normally disappears in approximately six to 10 steps.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was porosity?

MR. BODZIAK: The amount of absorption and pores in the surface. This countertop would be nonporous. It would be very smooth, and a very porous object, of course, would be a sponge, and concrete or concrete tiles are very porous and they would absorb the liquid and therefore cause it to dry quicker.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you were making the test impressions, is this on a porous surface or a relatively non-porous--

MR. BODZIAK: It was on a rough--a rough piece of paper, not a smooth finish paper, but a piece of brown craft paper that you would use for wrapping.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, can you indicate for us using this chart the kinds of problems that you can confront in terms of patterns appearing different than they really would on the shoe as a result of the blood bleeding over or other kinds of problems that you might have along those lines?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. May I step down?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. BODZIAK: Okay. If I can use the sole as well as the picture. I mentioned before the individual design elements, which are these little designs that together make up the total pattern on the shoe (Indicating), and I also mentioned the slightly raised perimeter, which confines the design elements in the sole as well as that slightly raised perimeter which confines the design elements in the heel. And that perimeter and these design elements, if you look at the shoe from the side, will both touch the surface if the surface is flat. The outer perimeter is raised. It's actually above the level of the ground, but it's very, very close. So if there's a lot of liquid such as blood on this outer perimeter, depending on the amount of blood and depending on the pressure exerted in a particular shoe impression, you may get this secondary perimeter, which on the first impression here is almost complete around the heel and is also in other portions of the sole, the top left corner. You also--because there's a lot of material on the shoe with the first step, there's also more of a printing of the flat surface of the design element. In other words, the actual pattern of design element. But you can see darkened edges which represent that material being squeezed out. And this is known as a squeegee effect where the pressure is causing this material, whether it be blood or paint, to squeeze out to the edge of the design element. And the same would also be true where there's excess blood in other areas such as the perimeter. This would squeeze out. In the second step, there's now going to be less material on the sole, and most of the material on the flatter surfaces of the design element has been squeezed away. So it is very thin.

But where the edges are where that material has been squeezed out to it, your surface tension will remain. You will get more of a printing of the edge characteristics of the design element, and except in areas where--for instance, there are a couple here where you do see a filling in of the design--you're basically getting the edge characteristics and you're getting less of the perimeter because there's less material on that secondary outer edge. The third step, again, you're getting some partial outer edge, but now you're really getting just the perimeter of the design element. And in areas now where I'm now pointing to now down in the sole area, but on the heel side, you're starting to get just little speckles and portions, perhaps little corners or edges of that design element. And then the succeeding steps, you would get less and less until eventually you would not be able to recognize this as this pattern.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Is that why, when you're looking at an impression at a crime scene, certain features of the design characteristics might not be apparent or might look a little bit different?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. If you were looking at this impression or perhaps the next impression that would be made, it might not look to you--if you weren't--if you weren't trained and experienced in looking at this, it may superficially look like a different pattern initially.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Perhaps we could pass around that sole--I think it's the 46 sole that he has, your Honor, which was 379--while this chart is up so they can get a better idea--

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Bodziak, hand that to juror no. 1, please.

(The exhibit was passed among the jurors.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I could mark some exhibits while we are waiting. I don't know whether the Court wants to do that.

THE COURT: Well, we're just about done. I would like the jury to have their undivided attention.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberg, would you retrieve the sole from Deputy Russell.

(Mr. Goldberg complies.)

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberg.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, you were talking about how when you went to the Bundy location, you were going out to compare the photographs to the tiles at the location. Do you recall that testimony?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that was for the purposes of creating a chart?

MR. BODZIAK: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, I'd like to mark as People's next in order, that would be 387 for identification. It's actually a two-part board, your Honor. So maybe we should mark it 388--387-A as the first section and B as the second.

THE COURT: All right. So marked.

(Peo's 387-A and B for id = two-part board)

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, perhaps with the Court's permission, we could use this chart closer to the jury because--

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: While they're doing that, maybe I can mark as People's next in order a series of photographs of what appear to be shoeprints from the Bundy location as 388, a photograph that's Q68, as 389, a photograph that's Q67. And then, your Honor, there are a series of photographs that are a through P. they already have the letters a through P on them I would like to mark as 390-A through 390-P, photograph that has the letter S on it as 391, X would be 392, Y would be 393, Q116, 394. And there's only one unlettered item, and I'd like that to be 395.

THE COURT: So marked.

(Peo's 388, 389, 380-A through 390-P, 391, 392, 393, 394 and 395 for id = photographs)

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Bailey, can you see this? All right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Mr. Bodziak, directing your attention to the chart that we've just put up of what appears to be the Bundy location that's been marked as 387-A for identification, do you recognize what this shows?

THE COURT: You have to ask him to step down because I think the angle is too--

MR. GOLDBERG: If you can step down.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And the legend of this is on the other side of the chart; is that correct?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us what the color codes mean and starting with the purple shoeprints?

MR. BODZIAK: The purple shoeprints such as is indicated here in B (Indicating) represent the right foot, the right foot impression, and the pink or red, whichever you choose to call it, as represented by D as an example, are the left footprints, and the medium color blue sort of without a footprint shape to them, those represent ones which were too indistinct. In other words, the impression had worn down to the point where they were too indistinct to attribute to either that design of shoe or to a particular left or right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And, Mr. Bodziak, is this the chart that you were referring to when you were talking about how you went out to the crime scene with Mr. Fung?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Your Honor, I'm going to pause for a moment just to let counsel--they want to get a closer look at the chart.

THE COURT: Certainly. Thank you.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, sir, when we were previously talking about the shoeprint comparison chart, were some of the items that you referred to on that chart represented on this Bundy chart as well?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, they were.

MR. GOLDBERG: And which items were those?

MR. BODZIAK: They were 268, which was that left heel impression and the impression which is depicted with the letter E, which was also a left impression and which is further up the walkway.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Maybe we can start then just very briefly with the Q68, if you'd like to, perhaps you can show us, showing you People's 388 for identification, what you did in terms of comparing that footprint. And since we've covered it, maybe you can just indicate for us how it was--in brief how you did it.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Q68 is the same heel impression which I've previously demonstrated with an overlay, and this just shows the natural size rendition of that with--which is what I would have compared with what I did compare with the actual original impressions that I made of the left and right soles from size 42 from 47.

MR. GOLDBERG: And was this the area of the scene that's--where you would enter into the gated-off or fenced-off area?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. This is the front gate which is running across the walkway, and Q68 is pretty close in the corner and it is headed in the direction of the arrow which is on the tip of Q68. So if I were to hold this up, it would be headed in this direction (Indicating).

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And actually the print was you said just a heel print; is that correct?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir.

MR. GOLDBERG: But on our chart, it has a full little footprint that's an icon?

MR. BODZIAK: Just to recognize left and right, we put a full foot on each of these charts.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And an arrow would indicate the direction?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, perhaps we can move to People's 389 for identification which is your number Q67?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us what you did in terms of comparing that print?

MR. BODZIAK: Q67 was compared in the same manner using the original natural size enlargement and original overlays of test impressions of all of the shoe sizes. And with regard to this, I determined that although there was a tremendous amount of indistinction in here, there were some features which correlated with the size 46 left heel impression, and then the sole impression of that would be running off into a soil area, and there's no evidence of any detail in that area on the soil. And adjacent to that is a white envelope.

MR. GOLDBERG: So what was the opinion that you rendered with respect to this item, this Q67?

MR. BODZIAK: Q67 corresponded also with the heel of the size 46 or American size 12 Bruno Magli shoe.

MR. GOLDBERG: And the Silga sole that you--

MR. BODZIAK: With the Silga sole, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, what kinds of variables are involved in determining whether you're going to get an impression on the dirt?

MR. BODZIAK: Well, any surface has to have--well, when we talk about the 3-dimensional surfaces such as soil and sand and snow, any of those surfaces will have to have--be fine enough in terms of, we all know that sand is a very fine material, and if you step in sand, you will depress it; and if it's dry, it will flow back together, it won't leave a very good impression, and if it's wet, it's a fine enough granulated material to in most cases leave an impression. With regard to soil, there is a more mixture of material that can be anything from rocks and mulch to hard clay soil to muddy soil to dry soil, and the fine particular material that's in any piece of soil may allow for the reproduction of the sole or it may not. It may--it may show some compression, but absolutely no detail of the shoe that made it or you may get a very good impression as well.

MR. GOLDBERG: Such as depends?

MR. BODZIAK: Depends on the soil wherever the foot steps.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And in this case, you're saying that there doesn't appear to be any recognizable footprint in the soil area?

MR. BODZIAK: There's an area which looks just to be a little flat, more flattened out, but there's no detail that can be seen in this area of the soil that's on the photograph that corresponds with any design at all, much less this design.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to People's 390-A for identification, your letter--excuse me--LAPD letter A, can you tell us what you did with respect to that comparison and show that to the jury?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Again, using the natural size photographs and the--I mean, the original overlays, test impressions of the shoe as depicted in this demonstrative display, I found the characteristics in this impression corresponded only with the sole of the left size 46 shoe. And this is marked a and the orientation of that is west slightly angled toward the south, but--but in a somewhat westerly direction on the step as denoted here by a.

MR. GOLDBERG: So that's the second step?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Maybe you can just walk down here a little bit and show the jurors that item and then with the overlay removed and back--and flip the overlay back and forth.

(The witness complies.)

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, Mr. Bodziak.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, Mr. Bodziak, incidentally, on some of these photographs, I've noticed little tiny red arrows that are on the photograph itself as opposed to the overlay.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. I put a few of those on each one because it shows the variety of characteristics that are reference points I used. Some of the impressions, as in the case of the first impression I showed, actually show the entire shape of the design element whereas others, you just have a slight fragment of a corner or an edge because it's--it's an impression where the blood has been squeezed out on prior steps; and I put a few red arrows in each of these to help show the variety of these reference points that I used.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Is that so if someone wants to look at later on a couple of the route key, some of the reference points will be sort of highlighted?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And are those all the reference points that you looked at?

MR. BODZIAK: No. There are others as well.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to People's next in order, it was 390-B for identification, LAPD photograph B, can you tell us what analysis you did on that footprint and what determinations you came to?

MR. BODZIAK: I used the same type of analysis. I compared the original impressions with natural size, a natural size photograph of this impression of size 42 through size 47, and I found the only sole which fit was the right size 46, European 46, and the orientation of this impression is as denoted with the arrow, and it is a B, is a right sole impression.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that would be going in the direction--in a westerly direction?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes, sir, it would.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Maybe you can just very briefly walk that so the jurors can see.

(The witness complies.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, handing you People's 190-C for identification, LAPD C, can you tell us what comparison you did on that and what opinion you rendered?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. C is a right sole impression. It is--I also compared the original impressions of size 42 through 47 soles and determined that the only sole which could have made this was the right size 46 European sole. Attached to C is a transparency to demonstrate this. I marked the chart with a right foot labeled C, and that is headed in a westerly direction.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. And now, directing your attention to 390-D for identification, LAPD D, can you tell us what comparison you did and what opinion you rendered on that?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Again, the same type of examination with original impressions from soles 42 through size 47 against natural size picture of this sole, and I determined that the only sole which would superimpose over and fit this impression was a left size 46 sole. The orientation of the left impression D is also in a westerly direction.

MR. GOLDBERG: And now showing you what we've marked as 390-E for identification. Can you tell us what analysis you did and what opinion you rendered on that?

MR. BODZIAK: E is the same item which was part of the two-time enlargement chart which I previously demonstrated with a much larger overlay because it would be easier to see and that--in the original examination, I used the original impressions of size 42 through 47 soles and determined that E was a left heel and sole and orientation-wise, I marked it as a left sole and heel on this board, labeled it E, and it is headed in a westerly direction.

MR. GOLDBERG: And was that also the Silga 46 sole did you say?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. It would only fit size 46.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor--

MR. GOLDBERG: And that's American size 12 as you've previously--

MR. BODZIAK: That's correct. All of the 46 I'm referring to are American size 12.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I don't want to pass all of these around, but perhaps just one so the jury can get a closer look with the Court's permission.

THE COURT: I would probably pass more than one since they are of differing--

MR. GOLDBERG: They are of different qualities.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: I didn't want to take up too much time. I can do a few if the Court wants.

THE COURT: Why don't you select--it's your case.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Maybe I'll start with this.

THE COURT: If you're going to use more than one, perhaps you should start them going at the same time.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. This is E that I'm passing around.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Maybe I'll, just so the jury can just get a sense of what different impressions look like, pass F around at the same time, and then I'll ask him with regard to--

THE COURT: All right. Hand that to juror no. 7.

(The exhibits were passed among the jurors.)

THE COURT: All right. Let me see counsel at the sidebar with the court reporter, please.

(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)

THE COURT: We're at the sidebar. I want to caution counsel on both sides there's too much talking going on by counsel over at the jury box on your end and you guys are over in the corner there talking to each other. I can hear you talking. And if I can hear you talking, the jurors can hear what your conversation is. You guys are too close to the jury box. If you want to talk with each other, consult, do it over at counsel table.

MS. CLARK: All right.

THE COURT: I don't want any conversations while you're over at the jury box.

MR. COCHRAN: Judge, at the lunch break, can we--

THE COURT: We're not breaking for lunch today.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay.

MS. CLARK: We're not?

MR. COCHRAN: Whenever you decide to break, I just want to be able to show these various things to the client.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: I looked at them for the first time. Okay.

THE COURT: Yes.

MS. CLARK: Because he hasn't seen the bottom of his shoes in a while.

MR. COCHRAN: I'm not commenting on any personal comments, Judge.

THE COURT: Would you advise your co-counsel?

MR. COCHRAN: I will.

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberg, would you collect those two items.

(Mr. Goldberg complies.)

THE COURT: And for the record, would you give me the number and letter identification of both of those?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes. It was D and e.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, we already asked you about e; is that correct?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: With respect to--

MR. GOLDBERG: Again, for the record, it was C and f.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sir, directing your attention to photograph F, can you tell us what analysis you did on that and what opinions you rendered?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. F is a right foot impression. I examined all of the sole impressions, 42 through 47, with it and determined that only the right size 46, American 12 Bruno Magli shoe would have made it with that sole.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, if you're looking at that impression, Mr. Bodziak, you can see down towards the heel, there's a portion where the blood appears to go over the overlay that you have.

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What accounts for that?

MR. BODZIAK: The--two things can account for it. One is the angle of the heel strike and the other is the amount of blood in that area may be sufficient that at the point of that heel strike, it's squeezed out that distance from the actual strike of the heel.

MR. GOLDBERG: So is the fact that that doesn't exactly match up mean that it's not the shoe or in some way undermine the opinion--

MR. BODZIAK: No. This is a normal thing which I observe in impressions of this type, and what's important is that the various edges of the elements in the reference points match the European 46 right sole and are distinctly different from all the other soles which I compared.

MR. GOLDBERG: And thinking back to the chart that we had where we were shown how shoeprints are deposited at a crime scene and how successive shoeprints look different from the first to the third--

MR. BODZIAK: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: --does that chart help to explain any of the phenomena that you just pointed out here in terms of why certain of the elements appear to bleed over if you will the--

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. Well, there's a lot of other things going on in this impression. There's a lot of blood still in this area of the heel (Indicating) and something has caused the left portion of the sole and heel not to print. And what that can be caused by is just the blood would not be picked up by that part of the shoe. In other words, the shoe would step in blood and only the right portion of the shoe would be stepping in. And then as that-- in this area, there's still stifling in the heel which you get typically when you have a lot of blood, and as the heel pulls away, it's--there's surface tension pulling it out and it interferes some with the pattern. And then over on the edges, you do get the borders and some of the edge detail and you get the perimeter and some of the other fragments of design up in the front. You also have the grout line which, as it runs through the--dissects the right sole print, because that grout line is recessed in the concrete walkway, the shoe did not contact that surface and, therefore, did not leave a print in that area.

MR. GOLDBERG: And incidentally, when a shoe--bloody shoeprint goes over leaves, does it tend to leave a shoeprint on the leaves?

MR. BODZIAK: If a bloody impression steps on a leaf?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yeah.

MR. BODZIAK: If everything was perfect, if there was--if there was blood on the design element in sufficient quantity and the leaf was laying flat and the person stepped on it, it would more likely stick to the shoe. I guess it could come off and leave some impression or fragment of an impression, but it is not a particularly good medium. I cannot think of hardly any cases where I have been submitted pictures of leaves that had shoeprints on it. In theory, I guess you could get some fragments, but it's not a good medium.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are some surfaces better than others for receiving shoeprints?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. A firm smooth surface would be the best, and any time you start to get grout lines or unevenness of the concrete tiles or real porous surfaces or other blemishes, all of those things would interfere with the impression-making process.

MR. GOLDBERG: Going back to E for a second, since the jurors had a chance to look at that up close, some of the items that you have the red arrows near seem to line up almost perfectly or perfectly and then there are other little areas that you can see where maybe the blood goes over where the pattern is. Can you explain that for us?

MR. BODZIAK: Are you referring to the front and rear of the heel?

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, not so much that. But on some of the design elements in the middle, you can see that some of the design elements appear to be bigger on the impression that was left at the scene than the design element on the overlay although a slightly different shape.

MR. BODZIAK: That would be--that specific thing would be because of the squeezing out of the blood. So the design element--if the piece of paper which I'm holding in my hand, exhibit E, was the design element and had blood on it, it would squeeze blood out beyond that edge and then the blood would stay on the surface. So if you consider that on both edges, top and bottom and left and right, the overall element size would be reflected as larger than the actual shoe element that made it.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that one of the things that you were showing us on the shoeprint chart where we had how shoeprints are deposited at crime scene and show how they fade out?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. I refer to that as a squeegee effect which is actually a printing term which we use in documents from the older printing process.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to 390-G for identification, can you show us what analysis you did and what opinions you arrived at on that?

MR. BODZIAK: Okay. The exhibit marked G is a left sole impression. In the rear of it, the heel is much more limited detailed than the sole portion and the heel crosses over the grout line. I compared that to the original impressions of size 42 through 47 and found that it only fit the European size 46 left sole. The item G is marked as a left impression and is heading west on the chart.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, so I don't have to ask this question over again, on a lot of the other photographs that we're going to discuss, are there also ones that have the squeegee effect that you've referred to and some of the other phenomena cause certain of the design elements or characterizations not to line up perfectly?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. That is typically what you find in blood impressions almost all of the time. The only way that you could in theory get a blood impression that printed like the test impressions I've showed is if you took a roller like a paint roller and very thinly coded shoe and made one impression. Then you might have such a thin coating that you wouldn't have that squeeze out. But, of course, that doesn't happen at crime scenes. And so whenever a shoe has to step in a large amount of blood to then leave a track, there is that excess blood which squeezes out and these types of things are normal.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now directing your attention to 390-H for identification, LAPD photograph number H, can you tell us what you did to analyze that and what opinion you arrived at?

MR. BODZIAK: S is a left heel and sole impression and it is also dissected by a grout line and it is--I compared the natural size photographs of H with all of the soles, size 42 through 47, and found that only the left size 46 sole matched this impression. H is depicted on the chart as a left impression also headed in a westerly direction.

MR. GOLDBERG: And now directing your attention to 390-I for identification, can you tell us what analysis you performed and what opinions you arrived at?

MR. BODZIAK: Okay. I is a right shoe impression, both the heel and the sole. I compared it with the size 42 through 47 soles and found that the size 46 characteristics, the European size 46, were the only ones which corresponded with this. This particular heel impression has a lot of excess squeeze out around the back of it and there is a very, very fine line that you can see from the edge of the heel, and this excess area which is void of any pattern is a squeeze-out effect due again to the amount of blood on the shoe and the angle of the heel at that point. So based on this, the size right 46 is the only sole that could have made it on the chart, I is a right shoe impression and it is heading in a westerly direction.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, directing your attention to 390-J for identification, can you tell us what analysis you did and what opinions if any you arrived at on this?

MR. BODZIAK: J is an impression, is a left sole impression. There is no heel depicted other than a slight staining here, but it's not enough to confirm as a heel. So looking at just the sole pattern alone of this impression with the size 42 through 47 left soles, I determined that the left size 46 contains characteristics which--some of which I've pointed to, indicating that the 46 sole of a left shoe left that. J is marked with a left sole shape and is headed in a westerly direction.

MR. GOLDBERG: So does that mean that this was the Silga sole or just that it's consistent with--

MR. BODZIAK: No. It was the Silga sole, size 46.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, looking at 190-K for identification, can you tell us what analysis you did and what opinions you arrived at on k?

MR. BODZIAK: Yes. 190-K, the chart that is marked K, was an area of blood which you could clearly see the blood, but in looking for features that I have looked for in the comparisons that I have demonstrated that would be associated with this sole, there was insufficient detail in this impression to make any correlation. In other words, the impression is now becoming--this way down the side--the walkway is becoming light enough to where there is no longer enough detail in this particular one with all of the variables considered that would enable me to associate it positively with a left or right Silga sole.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And that's why it's in blue on our--

MR. BODZIAK: That's why it's in blue and because I could not associate it with a particular sole as would be the case with some of the other ones marked blue, I can not orientate its direction. In other words, I cannot tell what direction it's going in.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Is there anything about this that was inconsistent, in other words, that would allow you to illuminate the Silga sole as having deposited--

MR. BODZIAK: There is no pattern or evidence of design or anything in that impression which would have been different or of another shoe. It simply did not have enough detail to make any association with the Silga sole.

MR. GOLDBERG: And incidentally, are there occasions where you can look at a shoeprint I take it and say this did not create the impression that--

MR. BODZIAK: Oh, absolutely. Yes. The obvious one is, if it's a different design, it could not have been made by a different designed shoe.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, directing your attention to 390-L labeled as LAPD L, can you describe for us what analysis you did on that and what conclusions you reached?

MR. BODZIAK: L is a--both a heel and sole impression. I made a comparison with the size 42 through 47 soles and determined that only the right size 46 heel and sole could have made that. When I orientated with the direction of this impression--and this L is a right sole marked so. The direction of this was in a--let's see--was in a southerly direction actually coming out of an area of soil that parallels that sidewalk.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that like a soil planter over there or place for shrubs?

MR. BODZIAK: There's two or three feet of area as depicted on this diagram that contains some plants and soil.

MR. GOLDBERG: And in that particular area right around where we have L, is there any object in the planter area in terms of shrubbery that you took note of when you were out at the scene?

MR. BODZIAK: The only thing I noted at the scene, and you couldn't help but note it, at the time I was there, which was several months after this took place, there was a tree which was hanging well over the sidewalk at that point, and I made it a point to check the photographs which were taken after the crime--

MR. GOLDBERG: On the 13th?

MR. BODZIAK: --on the 13th of June. And at that time, that tree was standing normally and straight up, and, therefore, this was something that occurred afterwards and was insignificant.

MR. GOLDBERG: And based upon your observations when you were out at the crime scene, if someone were to stand in that area facing in a southerly direction as indicated, would the shoeprints--are they visible from the street?

MR. BODZIAK: Where they're standing here, they are because they would be in line of somebody standing out on the street. But back in the soil area, if they were just to step back into this area, even though there's no real cover there in terms of bushes, because of this high wall and the other obstructions, a person standing back here would not be able to see them (Indicating). They would be out of the line of sight.

MR. GOLDBERG: In other words, if they were standing a little