Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge
APPEARANCES: (Appearances as heretofore noted.)
(Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)
(Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. Mr. Simpson is again present before the Court with his counsel, Mr. Shapiro, Mr. Cochran, Mr. Douglas, Mr. Bailey, Mr. Blasier. The People are represented by Miss Clark, Mr. Darden and Mr. Gordon. The jury is not present. Counsel, anything we need to take up before the Defense calls their first witness?
MR. COCHRAN: Yes. I would like to be heard, your Honor, if I might.
THE COURT: Good morning, Mr. Cochran.
MR. COCHRAN: Good morning, your Honor. I just wanted to indicate for the record that yesterday at about five o'clock--I should start off by saying that I have received a call from Mr. Yochelson, I believe on Friday afternoon, regarding witnesses above the eight or nine names that I had given him I think on last Wednesday, or the Prosecution, and we did in fact get back to him yesterday afternoon and gave him perhaps 20, 24 additional names which we think will perhaps take us through the next two weeks.
THE COURT: Which means we have approximately how many names at this point?
MR. COCHRAN: That I have given him? I haven't counted exactly, your Honor, but somewhere in the area of 33, 34, and I would indicate further, if there are witnesses we are not going to call, when I become aware of I will let the Prosecution know and always try to let him have the order. And I think that will expedite this matter so that we can move through this trial. I do have some concerns, your Honor, that I would like to bring to your attention. One of our witnesses I would expect to call, however, today, depending on how fast we move, a lady named Carol Connors, and this witness yesterday received a call from a lawyer by the name of Gloria Allred that was entirely inappropriate. First of all, Miss Carol Connors is represented by a lawyer and he will be here later today. His name is Ed Pease. And I spoke with him last night and he was extremely upset that Miss Allred would seek to call Miss Connors, whom he represents, and then proceed to badger her and was screaming at her to the extent, according to Miss Connors, that Miss Connors had to hang up the phone. And the reason I wanted to bring this to the Court's attention, she was apparently urging Miss Connors to talk to the Prosecution. And I am very concerned for these number of witnesses we have, that I don't want to see them harassed. Certainly the Prosecution has a right to ask to talk to the witness. If the witnesses want to do that, that is fine, we have no problem with that, but I will not stand by as an Officer of this Court and not at least bring this to your Honor's attention. And I believe Mr. Pease will be going to the other appropriate state agencies regarding the conduct of this lawyer in calling his client in badgering her as it happened last night. And I wanted to put that on the record and I think it was very unfortunate, and I hope that won't happen again with any of the other witnesses, and in a search for truth, your Honor, witnesses should be able to come to Court without fear of being intimidated or affected by anyone, and I think it would be outrageous if people would be deterred from testifying in this case because of the conduct from any of the other parties.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel. I will hear from Mr. Pease when he is available.
MR. COCHRAN: He will be here before she testifies and I'm sure will bring it to your Honor's attention. As we indicated to the Court, in proceeding with this case, we are ready to proceed and would ask leave to call Miss Arnelle Simpson. We had a conversation back in chambers on Friday which I indicated the general parameters of her testimony and if there is any area where I feel that there is a question or whatever, and there is an area regarding a letter that we gave the Prosecution last evening, and that this is a letter from Nicole Brown Simpson to Mr. Simpson in `93 which we think is very probative, but it has a specific purpose only, and before we get to that or ask any questions of it, I want to have a 402 hearing. But I don't want to delay the proceedings. That would be the very last question and before we got to that I would ask for a recess and then we would have a 402 hearing. That is all I would like.
THE COURT: All right. Good morning, Miss Clark.
MS. CLARK: Good morning, your Honor. Let me first indicate to the Court and assure the Court, although it probably does not need the assurance, at no time have the Prosecution engaged in any conduct that would tend to harass or intimidate anyone, any witness for either side. We have had no contact with Carol Connor. I certainly have never spoken to Gloria Allred. And if any of the all allegations made by counsel are true, which I sincerely doubt, then that is a matter to be taken up at a later point, but it certainly is not any conduct on the part of Prosecution. We would never engage in such conduct. It is beyond even thinking. Secondly, your Honor, with respect to the proposed testimony of Miss Simpson, the People are requesting today there are be an offer of proof. We have no statement from Miss Simpson. We have no indication at all as to what the parameters of her testimony might be. The proffer of the letter back in `93, I believe, from ms. Nicole Brown, is an indication to me that the intended parameters are very, very broad and perhaps impermissible, in light of issues that are framed in this case.
And rather than have to go through lengthy side bars and objections that will waste the jury's time, we are asking that the Defense be required to submit an offer of proof to this Court so that we can see what the boundaries of the testimony proposed by her are. At this time we have no idea. The only statement we have from Miss Simpson at this time is very, very brief testimony elicited at the preliminary hearing pursuant to 1538.5 motion made by the Defense at that time, which is July of `94. At this time there has been no statement made by her to the officers, there has been no statement made by her to the Defense which has been proffered to us, so we have no idea what the Defense intends to elicit. And I think the Court is entitled to an offer of proof to make sure that improper questions are not asked, to make sure that areas are not gone into which are impermissible or improper. And perhaps the Defense needs to know what areas the Court thinks are proper and improper or which areas might open doors the Defense does not want to open. And a good example of that would be the letter that has been offered so far, but I think that it is clear that in the absence of a statement having been given to the People that will indicate what the boundaries of the testimony are, that the Court is entitled to an offer of proof before that witness testifies and the People are making that request.
THE COURT: Mr. Cochran.
MR. COCHRAN: I find it particularly ironic, your Honor, that the Prosecution has called some 58 witnesses and took almost six months. We didn't try to stop them. This so-called search for truth certainly takes a different turn when the Defense gets its chance. Certainly this Court--and we talked about this last week, your Honor, you and I--has an absolute right to ask for an offer of proof and you did and I told you and you in chambers indicated--and the areas that I went into, you said it is absolutely relevant and totally permissible. The Prosecution does not have a right to take each one of our witnesses and ask what they are going to testify to. They are so insecure about their evidence. Listen, if this is a search for truth, you are going to do the right thing with regard to the evidence. We are experienced lawyers. We are not going to go far afield with this jury. We are going to bring on the areas--we know about opening doors, and quite frankly, if there is a question about opening the door, we want a ruling, we want a ruling before we ask questions, and I have indicated to you we will be doing that and I have indicated the general areas we will talk about. It is preposterous for experienced lawyers to stand here and say--Arnelle Simpson was the person awakened by the police officers, your Honor, shortly after five o'clock on the 13th. I mean, it is preposterous. She was home that evening. I mean, for them to say this is just preposterous because they don't have a report. There is no report. And as I indicated on Friday, at some point later in their careers, when they practice on both sides, this will end. Miss Lewis indicated she will never be on this side, but you have to have a client to be on this side.
THE COURT: Counsel, we don't need to go into that.
MR. COCHRAN: Right. The point is we have done this already. We tried to indicate that to the Court. I have told you further, Mr. Shapiro and I will be taking these witnesses--first witnesses. If there is a question mark in our mind, unlike what happened in the People's case, we will ask to approach the bench and ask some advice on those questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very much.
THE COURT: Counsel, we will proceed accordingly. Where there is a witness where there is no statement available, I will ask and expect an offer of proof. As to the first witness, Arnelle Simpson, this person is well-known to counsel on both sides. Her ability to testify to what was going on at the Simpson residence the night of the crime, what occurred that morning, what occurred in the few days afterwards, the demeanor of the Defendant, any statements that may have been made by Mr. Shipp, I mean, she is potentially competent to testify to a number of issues that are obvious to me. So I don't think I'm going--I'm not going to expect an additional offer of proof beyond what we discussed in chambers last week as to Miss Arnelle Simpson. All right. Anything else?
MR. COCHRAN: No, your Honor. We are ready to proceed.
THE COURT: Let's have the jurors, please.
MR. DARDEN: Your Honor, one question. On the issue of the letter that they will attempt to introduce through Miss Simpson, can we have a list of the P's and A's they intend to argue?
MR. COCHRAN: May I suggest that Mr. Darden speak with Mr. Uelmen. Mr. Uelmen is here.
THE COURT: Mr. Gordon, do you want to chat with Mr. Uelmen.
MR. GORDON: Certainly.
THE COURT: And Mr. Cochran, who is going to do the direct examination of Miss Simpson?
MR. COCHRAN: I will be, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. DARDEN: Who will follow Miss Simpson, your Honor?
THE COURT: Mr. Cochran, who comes after Miss Simpson?
MR. COCHRAN: I would expect Miss Carmelita Durio.
MR. DARDEN: There is the issue of the exclusion order that the Court issued as to the Brown families and the victim's families as far as being excluded from the proceedings when there was testimony being provided by other witnesses that might relate to their testimony.
THE COURT: Miss Simpson, hold on. We need the jury first.
MS. SIMPSON: Okay.
MR. DARDEN: Are you interested at all in that?
THE COURT: Yes. Mr. Cochran?
MR. COCHRAN: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Exclusion of other family members when they are going to be testifying as to the same issues.
MR. COCHRAN: I expect that Mrs. Simpson will be testifying sometime this morning, and she is in a wheelchair. Are you asking that Mrs. Simpson, the mother, be removed also?
THE COURT: Anybody who is going to be testifying to the same issues, yes, they should not hear each other's testimony.
MR. COCHRAN: Fine, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. So they will be excluded.
(Potential witnesses excluded.)
(Brief pause.)
(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
MR. GORDON: Your Honor, Mr. Uelmen indicates that there is no law or authority as a basis.
THE COURT: Counsel, I don't need to know that now.
(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
THE COURT: And counsel, our lunch recess today will be until 1:30.
(Brief pause.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. And let the record reflect that we have now been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good morning.
THE COURT: I see everybody is well. All right. At this point, Mr. Cochran, you may call the Defense's first witness.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very kindly, your Honor. Good morning, your Honor. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
THE JURY: Good morning.
D E F E N S E
MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, the first witness that the Defense will call is Miss Arnelle Simpson.
THE COURT: Miss Simpson, will you come forward, please.
Arnelle Simpson, called as a witness by the Defendant, was sworn and testified as follows:
THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this Court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.
MS. SIMPSON: I do.
THE CLERK: Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.
MS. SIMPSON: Arnelle Simpson, A-R-N-E-L-L-E S-I-M-P-S-O-N.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN
MR. COCHRAN: Good morning, Miss Simpson.
MS. SIMPSON: Good morning.
MR. COCHRAN: Miss Simpson, are you acquainted with the gentleman at the end of counsel table there, Mr. O.J. Simpson?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I am.
MR. COCHRAN: How are you acquainted with him?
MS. SIMPSON: I'm his daughter.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you have other brothers and sisters?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I do.
MR. COCHRAN: And tell us about your brothers and sisters, their names and approximate ages.
MS. SIMPSON: Jason, Sydney and Justin.
MR. COCHRAN: And can you tell us approximately their ages?
MS. SIMPSON: Jason is 25, Sydney is 10 and Justin is 6.
MR. COCHRAN: And you are still young enough that I can ask this. How old are you?
MS. SIMPSON: 26.
MR. COCHRAN: And you are the oldest of the Simpson siblings?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I am.
MR. COCHRAN: What was your date of birth?
MS. SIMPSON: 12/4/68.
MR. COCHRAN: Something unusual about that date?
MS. SIMPSON: I was born the same day my dad won the Heisman trophy.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to your background, have you attended college?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I have.
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you attend college?
MS. SIMPSON: I went to the University of Colorado and then transferred to Howard University in Washington D.C.
MR. COCHRAN: And at some point did you finish Howard University?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: When was that, approximately?
MS. SIMPSON: In `92.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, after you finished college--and Howard University is in Washington D.C.?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, it is.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you then have occasion to return back to Southern California?
MS. SIMPSON: Yeah, periodically through the holidays.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And prior to that--and after that did you have occasion to relocate here to Southern California, move back here and live here?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: When was that, approximately?
MS. SIMPSON: In September of `92.
MR. COCHRAN: And that was after finishing; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, it was.
MR. COCHRAN: Did there come a time thereafter that you have had occasion to move back to the Rockingham residence that we have heard about in Brentwood?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, had you lived at Rockingham at some time earlier in your life?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I have.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you recall when that was, approximately?
MS. SIMPSON: Off and on my whole life.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Well, when you were a young lady was your father married to your mother?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what is your mother's name?
MS. SIMPSON: Marguerite Thomas.
MR. COCHRAN: Is she present in Court today?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, she is.
MR. COCHRAN: Is she the lady with the flower on with the yellow?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, she is.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And when did you first move into Rockingham, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: (No audible response.)
MR. COCHRAN: As a youngster?
MS. SIMPSON: I was I believe 7 when I first moved in with my mother and father.
MR. COCHRAN: And can you move a little closer to the microphone.
MS. SIMPSON: Sorry.
THE COURT: Why don't you just pull it closer. Thank you.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: I'm sorry, I missed that last answer. You were approximately 7 years of age?
MS. SIMPSON: Yeah, I believe so, uh-huh.
MR. COCHRAN: And at that time was that the family home?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, it was.
MR. COCHRAN: And who lived at that house at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: My mother, my father, myself and my brother and my sister Erin and she passed.
MR. COCHRAN: You had a sister Erin who ultimately passed?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So this was a family home purchased at that time; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, it was.
MR. COCHRAN: How long did you live at Rockingham after you moved in at about 7 years of age?
MS. SIMPSON: I lived there until `87 when I graduated from high school.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. From high school?
MS. SIMPSON: Uh-huh.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You've got to say yes.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, then after--from `87--after `87 you lived other places; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Pardon me?
MR. COCHRAN: You didn't live at Rockingham after `87 for awhile?
MS. SIMPSON: I went off to college.
MR. COCHRAN: Then after now you had finished college, did there come a time in 1993 that you moved back into Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Will you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury when that was that you moved back into Rockingham.
MS. SIMPSON: It was approximately probably early March of `93.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what were the circumstances surrounding your moving back? Did you have a conversation with your dad?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Objection, your Honor.
MS. SIMPSON: I asked if I could move in.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Yes would be appropriate, it seems to me, your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. COCHRAN: You had a conversation with your dad; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And in that conversation did the two of you discuss your moving back into Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, we did.
MR. COCHRAN: Yes or no. Was anyone else present during that conversation that you had with him?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Who was that?
MS. SIMPSON: Paula Barbieri.
MR. COCHRAN: Who was Paula Barbieri?
MS. SIMPSON: My father's girlfriend.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And where did this conversation take place?
MS. SIMPSON: In our TV room at the house.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And which house you are talking about? Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: 360, yeah.
MR. COCHRAN: You can tell us why was it that you decided you wanted to move back at home at that point, just generally?
MS. CLARK: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SIMPSON: At the time I was living with my mother and she had a duplex and wanted to rent out the--the place I was staying in, and I had asked my dad if I could move in and he said yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. He indicated yes?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: We won't go into the conversation. So the reason was you wanted to move from your mother's residence and you wanted to move back home; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, when you lived at Rockingham when you were a youngster, did you have your own room?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: And your brother Jason had his own room?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, he did.
MR. COCHRAN: At some point after you moved out did your father remarry?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, he did.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And the room that you had had, who occupied the rooms that you originally had when you were a young person? Did your younger brothers and sisters take over those rooms?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, they did.
MR. COCHRAN: That is Sydney and Justin?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So when you moved back or when you wanted to move back, where were you going to move at that point? Which room were you going to move in, if you know?
MS. SIMPSON: Because Justin and Sydney were occupying our room, dad built two additional rooms in the back for us so that we would have a place to stay.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So he built two additional rooms--may I approach, your Honor? There is a diagram that has been previously marked and I would like to--it is a People's exhibit.
MR. DOUGLAS: People's 66, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. People's 66 which is the diagram of the Rockingham residence.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: As I understand it, this particular exhibit is now in evidence; is that correct?
THE COURT: It is.
MR. COCHRAN: Miss Simpson, with regard to People's 66 which purports to be a diagram of the ground at 360 north Rockingham Avenue, you have seen this diagram before, have you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I have.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you were just describing for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury and the Court that your dad had built some additional rooms after his new family had moved into Rockingham; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And can you show us, if the Court allow you to step down briefly and show us where the rooms were that your dad had built for you and your brother, basically, Jason?
MS. SIMPSON: (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: For the record, your Honor, Miss Simpson has indicated two areas on People's 66 marked "Arnelle's room" and she indicated both of those rooms, if the Court pleases.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And those are the two rooms that you and your brother Jason could occupy; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Uh-huh, yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So after this conversation with your dad and Paula Barbieri, did you have occasion to move back into Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: And in the course of the conversation that you had with your dad, did Paula Barbieri also participate in that conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, she did.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, when you moved back into Rockingham, I think you told us that was perhaps around March or so much 1993?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have any special arrangements whereby you were going to pay rent or whatever?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: And what was that?
MS. SIMPSON: That I would move in and give my father 50 or a hundred dollars a month so that when it was time for me to get ready to leave I would have money for a down payment for a first and last rent.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you get the money back?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you get the money back from your dad if you moved?
MS. SIMPSON: If I were to move, yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you always pay the 50 or the $100.00?
MS. SIMPSON: In the beginning I did and then it kind of slacked off.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You didn't--you weren't put out, at any rate, were you?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, so starting then in March of 1993 you moved back into the residence; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, I want to ask you a question about the family dogs. Did you have a dog back in the early part of 1993, or dogs, at the Rockingham residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Tell us the name of those dogs.
MS. SIMPSON: Chachi and Chubbs.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, Chachi we have heard about and is that the black chow that you have that we have heard about?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know how long you had Chachi, approximately?
MS. SIMPSON: Oh, goodness, it has been about nine years.
MR. COCHRAN: So he's a nine-year old dog or something like that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, uh-huh.
MR. COCHRAN: He is the black dog that we have heard about; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You mentioned a new name, Chubbs. Who is Chubbs?
MS. SIMPSON: Our other dog that we had.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what kind of dog was Chubbs?
MS. SIMPSON: A chow, a brown chow.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And do you know how long you had had Chubbs prior to 1993?
MS. SIMPSON: About eleven, twelve years.
MR. COCHRAN: Was Chubbs older than Chachi?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did something unusual happen to Chubbs?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, he died.
MR. COCHRAN: And were you in and around the Rockingham residence when that happened?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, I was.
MR. COCHRAN: And after that did something unusual happen after Chubbs had died?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: What was that?
MS. SIMPSON: We buried him.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, with regard to this--this dog, you were attached to this dog?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: What about the younger children?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And at that time when did he die exactly?
MS. SIMPSON: He died either February--end of February, maybe beginning of March of `93.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Was Miss Nicole Brown Simpson--do you know where she was living at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where was she living?
MS. SIMPSON: Gretna Green.
MR. COCHRAN: Were you acquainted with that residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Would you occasionally go over to that residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: How often would go over to that residence when she lived at Gretna Green?
MS. SIMPSON: It was very close so I would stop by periodically to say hello and see the kids, sometimes do errands with her.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did you make Miss Nicole Brown Simpson aware of the fact that this dog Chubbs had died?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did something happen thereafter?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, she came over.
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
MR. COCHRAN: I will link it up.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: You may answer.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what happened?
MS. SIMPSON: At that point my father, Nicole and I proceeded to figure out what we were going to do with Chubbs and we decided to bury him in the front yard.
MR. COCHRAN: He is buried in the front yard of Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Of the Rockingham house.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Was this a procedure that took place on the day you found him?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you find this dog?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, he was in the pool.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, with regard to this--this procedure that you had where the dog was buried, was he buried in the front yard of Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: How did that take place?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, we didn't want to give him to anybody because we had had the dog for so long, so Nicole had actually made the decision to bury the dog in the front yard and she dug a hole in the front yard.
MR. COCHRAN: He was buried in the front yard?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did your father try to dig that hole?
MS. SIMPSON: He attempted to.
MR. COCHRAN: And what did you see him do, if anything?
MS. SIMPSON: He couldn't do it.
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: I would like to make an offer with regard to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
THE COURT: All right. `93.
MR. COCHRAN: Very well, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: So Miss Nicole Brown Simpson dug this hole; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Were the younger children also present at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: No, they were not.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Just who was present at the time the dog was buried?
MS. SIMPSON: My father, Nicole and myself.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, after that dog--after Chubbs had passed on, did your father have occasion to buy another dog?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, he did.
MR. COCHRAN: What was that dog's name?
MS. SIMPSON: Kato.
MR. COCHRAN: When was Kato bought in relationship to the time that Chubbs died?
MS. SIMPSON: Maybe two to three weeks later.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And your dad bought that dog?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Where--at that point and thereafter where would Kato live?
MS. SIMPSON: At my dad's house.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. At Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So how many dogs did you have again at this point?
MS. SIMPSON: Two.
MR. COCHRAN: So that you had both Kato and Chachi living at Rockingham; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Would there ever be occasions when Kato would be over or taken over to Miss Nicole Brown Simpson's residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And at some point did she move from the location at Gretna Green to some other location?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know when that was, approximately?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe it was the end of `93.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did you--did you in any way--were you aware about the time that she moved? Did you participate in that move at all?
MS. SIMPSON: No, I did not.
MR. COCHRAN: You knew when she moved; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yeah.
MR. COCHRAN: That is when she moved to Bundy, is it?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Then Kato you have described for us was living at the Rockingham residence primarily; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Along with Chachi; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Would there ever be times when Nicole Brown Simpson would come by and get either one of the dogs, Kato or Chachi?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Describe that for us.
MS. SIMPSON: She would come by in the mornings and either take the dog over to see the kids or she would run with the dog.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Which dog would she run with primarily, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Kato.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And would she ever run with Chachi?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: And why was that, if you knew?
MS. SIMPSON: Chachi has really bad arthritis.
MR. COCHRAN: He has arthritis?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: But Kato is a younger dog?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: She would run with Kato?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Would she take Kato with her?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Would there be times when Kato would stay overnight over at the Bundy residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, your dad has several cars; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And when you moved back in in 1993, how many cars did he have at that point, in and around the Rockingham residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Three.
MR. COCHRAN: And we have heard about a black Bentley?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: That is one of the cars?
MS. SIMPSON: Uh-huh.
MR. COCHRAN: And did he have a white Bronco?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And he had another car?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And where is that car?
MS. SIMPSON: In the garage.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. That is a third car; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, with regard to the Bronco, what family members, if any, would drive this Bronco vehicle that your dad had?
MS. SIMPSON: Everybody.
MR. COCHRAN: And by "Everybody" who do you mean?
MS. SIMPSON: Myself, my brother, A.C., Nicole, my father.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So we get some names, some new names here, when you say "A.C.," who do you have reference to?
MS. SIMPSON: Allan Cowlings.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that Cowlings, c-o-w-l-I-n-g-s?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Allan Cowlings?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that a friend of your dad's and the family?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you told us that Nicole would drive the Bronco?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You would drive the Bronco?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And when you say your brother, I presume you mean your older brother Jason?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: By the way, I may have neglected, is this your older brother Jason sitting next to your mother?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: To the right of your mother. Now, do you have a recollection of seeing Miss Nicole Brown Simpson drive that Bronco from the time that you moved back in over the course of the last number of years?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you recall under what circumstances she would tend to drive the Bronco?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, either to take the dogs. At one point her car was in the shop, or to use the car with Justin and Sydney if they had other kids with them, friends of Justin and Sydney's.
MR. COCHRAN: To go out like on outings or whatever?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Have you ever seen times when she had one or both of the dogs inside the Bronco when she took it?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague as to the time, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: Have you seen times when she has had one or both the dogs in the car?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Would there be one dog taken in the car more often than another?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Which dog would she indicate most often?
MS. SIMPSON: Kato.
MR. COCHRAN: And the children would also be in the car on occasion?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, after you moved in in March of--thereabouts of 1993, would you have occasion to see Miss Nicole Brown Simpson or the children over at Rockingham on times after you moved in in March of 1993?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Would you describe for the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the circumstances by which you would see her over at the Rockingham residence.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, she would come over in the mornings, sometimes to let the kids swim, or she would drop them off while she went running and I would watch Justin and Sydney and she would come over sometimes to pick up her mail.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. She had mail that would still come to that residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: If you are aware, you had been over to the Bundy residence, had you not?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did she have a pool at Bundy?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: So the kids liked to swim?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And there is in fact, looking at People's 66, a pool area that we have all seen on our jury view at Rockingham; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, would you know the time she was coming over there--
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: --to bring the kids? All right. So how would you determine she was there or find out she was there.
MS. SIMPSON: I would wake up in the morning and sometimes I would walk outside and she would be out laying--laying out and the kids would be in the pool, or I would come inside the house and she would be in the kitchen or we would be going and passing.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And during this time frame she and your father were somewhat separated; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And would I be correct in assuming that when you first moved back in his girlfriend at that time was Paula Barbieri?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, the times that you would see Miss Nicole Brown Simpson over at the Rockingham residence, did that couldn't on for a period of time after you got back in March of 1993?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to your relationship with Miss Nicole Brown Simpson, would you have occasion to ever go over to the Bundy residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Under what circumstances would you go over to Bundy, ma'am?
MS. SIMPSON: To stop by, to say hello, to talk to the kids. On occasion she would call me to baby-sit the kids in the morning so she could jog or to take them to school.
MR. COCHRAN: Were there occasions that after you moved back into Rockingham that you would baby-sit the children at Bundy?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to your dad, Mr. O.J. Simpson, if you know, were there times when he would spend the nights, which is after you came back in March of 1993, over at the Bundy location?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay, speculation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: I'm asking if she knows.
MR. COCHRAN: How do you know that he would spend the night over there? Would you explain that for the Court and the jury.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, he would call me to see if anybody was at the house, sometimes call me if they wanted something from the Rockingham house for me to bring over to Nicole's house.
MR. COCHRAN: And would there be occasions where you would bring things from the Rockingham house over to Bundy and he would be there?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what kind of things would you bring over there?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, like Justin's Nintendo game or a video.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did the children have games like Nintendo and other kind of videos at Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did they also have some Nintendo and games also at Bundy?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you ever have occasion to bring any clothes over for your dad from the Rockingham residence over to Bundy?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Objection, vague as to time.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: And we are talking, so that we are clear for the time, we are talking about primarily after you had moved back in; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you recall specifically when the times were that you have had occasion to bring clothes over to your dad, the times he was over at Bundy, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Tell us about that, please, ma'am.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, it was during--between `93 and `94 around--during the summertime.
MR. COCHRAN: The summer of `93?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did there come a time when you started to see Nicole Brown Simpson and your dad, Mr. O.J. Simpson, start to go out together again?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And when was that, approximately?
MS. SIMPSON: It was probably around the months of March or April of `93.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Was this about the time when you would see her out by the swimming pool and things like that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. And then after he started to see Miss Nicole Brown Simpson again, if you know, did he stop seeing Paula Barbieri?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So--
MS. CLARK: Objection, speculation, motion to strike.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: So then once he started seeing Nicole Brown Simpson again he wasn't then seeing Paula Barbieri; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And with regard to the time that Miss Nicole Brown Simpson moved to the Bundy location, did you think that was near the end of `93 or the first of `94? Do you know when that was?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe it was end of `93.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So somewhere around that range; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So this time frame where you described that you would take clothes over to the Bundy location would have been in the summer of `93 and that was a time when your dad was again going out with or dating Miss Nicole Brown Simpson; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, during this time that they were seeing each other, she never moved back permanently to Rockingham, did she?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: She never moved in the house, did she?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Would there be times when she would come over and spend some time at the house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And describe that. Did that couldn't to happen over a period of time?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And did they continue to date, if you will, from the time you've talked to us about in April or May throughout `93 into `94?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And would you see her fairly frequently during that time frame?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Will you describe for us how often you would see her during this time frame after they started dating.
MS. SIMPSON: Almost everyday.
MR. COCHRAN: And just describe for us a general day if you can picture for us--we are now talking about after the time they got back together.
MS. SIMPSON: Can you rephrase that?
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Certainly I will. The question I was asking was whether or not they tended to see each other at both locations, both Rockingham and Bundy, and I was going to ask you to describe a day when you might see Miss Nicole Brown Simpson at Rockingham, first of all.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, she would come over during the summer. At one point we had all gone to a movie, the whole family. Umm, they had thrown a couples party and she would be over to the house. Umm, or he would be over at Nicole's house and I would go over there, like I said before, and drop off clothes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So with regard to this time frame, are you sure of the exact dates of the time that Miss Nicole Brown Simpson moved from Gretna Green to Bundy?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I'm assuming end of `93, but no, I don't know the exact date.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You know that at some point she lived at Gretna Green?
MS. SIMPSON: And then moved.
MR. COCHRAN: And at some point she moved to Bundy?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, with regard to the late summer, in the month of August or thereabouts of each year, were you aware of how your dad was employed at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, he would start his football season.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Was a sportscaster of some kind?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. When he started his sportscasting did something unusual happen or did he have to move on locations in August of--strike that. Would he have occasion to move his residence in the month of August or in the late summer?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, he would.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And where would he go during this time frame, if you know, ma'am?
MS. SIMPSON: He would move to New York and then travel out of New York.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. To the best of your recollection again what month that would normally be he would move to New York?
MS. SIMPSON: It would usually be the months of August until January.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You said he would move to New York. Did he have a residence in New York?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, he did.
MR. COCHRAN: And what kind of place did he have in New York?
MS. SIMPSON: He had an apartment.
MR. COCHRAN: And you have been to that apartment, of course?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, you described for us that you were attending Howard University in Washington D.C.; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And so would you have occasion to see your dad or visit your dad when you were in D.C. And he is up in New York--
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: --when you were back there? Would you ever go to the New York apartment?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, often.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, during that time frame, after Miss Nicole Brown Simpson and your dad started dating again, do you recall whether or not you ever had occasion to see them together in New York at any time?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Can you describe that for us?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, it was no different than the normal. It would usually be on some of the holidays, sometimes the weekend. It would be easier for me to go to New York as opposed to flying all the way to L.A. from Washington D.C., so--
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So there would be times that you would see the family there?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Would that include the two minor children also?
MS. SIMPSON: Justin and Sydney, yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And yourself?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, when you moved back into the house that you described for us in March of 1993, were you given any particular instructions about your role around the house there?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: What was that?
MS. SIMPSON: That basically I had become the woman of the house and while he was gone for me just to make sure that everything was running in the household and to just watch it.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So now as you became the woman of the house, do you recall whether or not in the month of August of 1993 did your dad go and do sportscasting or broadcasting and have occasion to go to New York during this time frame?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So there would be periods of time when he wasn't even here in California?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And were you the woman of the house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes. That is the reason why he made me the woman of the house.
MR. COCHRAN: As the woman of the house, what kind of things would you do?
MS. SIMPSON: Just make sure everything was running, umm, as far as the gardener and people coming into the house, regulating it, watching, you know, the cars, just household things.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. There was a housekeeper?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, there was.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And would the housekeeper be there on weekends?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: So on weekends you would really have to be the woman of the house then; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you did in `93 after you moved in; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And primarily he was traveling and doing his sportscasting work from August on?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And that would last how long?
MS. SIMPSON: (No audible response.)
MR. COCHRAN: Say until January?
MS. SIMPSON: Oh, yeah, August until January.
MR. COCHRAN: Is there some big football game that occurs toward the end of January called the Superbowl?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Does that end the football season?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: After that would he stay in New York or where would he go, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: He was in L.A. but he would travel quite a bit, too.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, he would travel a lot?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you were living--and so--I'm not sure we made it clear for the jury, but after he moved back in, you described for us that Mr. Simpson had built rooms for you and Jason and you described Arnelle's room back here, (Indicating)?
MS. SIMPSON: Uh-huh.
MR. COCHRAN: And I don't think I asked which room you moved into. When you moved back in, where did you move, if you recall? May she step down, your Honor.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you.
MS. SIMPSON: (Witness complies.) I was living here, (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: All right. The room marked "Arnelle's room," your Honor. That is next to Kato--strike that. Next to the room marked "Kaelin's room."
THE COURT: Yes, to the right of that.
MR. COCHRAN: To the right of that. Thank you, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: So that is the room you moved into? So this is the room from which you would be the woman of the house; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, you were describing for us that your dad would travel a lot even when there was no football season; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And would you talk to him about his travel? Did he tell you when he was leaving?
MS. SIMPSON: Sometimes.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you know why he was traveling, what he was doing during this period of time?
MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay.
THE COURT: That is vague, counsel.
MR. COCHRAN: Counsel is correct. You are correct. Let me rephrase that.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know what kind of trips he was taking during this period of time after, say, January of 1994?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what kind of trips were they? Business trips?
MS. SIMPSON: Some were business and some were pleasure.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. He would go various places?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And he would do this on a regular basis?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Let's talk a little bit about your dad's traveling habits, as you knew them, and we are talking now the period after January of 1994. Let's say between the period of January and June of 1994. Have you ever been around when your dad was getting ready to leave for a trip?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Can you describe for us any particular things about his getting ready, his packing habits and those sorts of things?
MS. CLARK: Objection, vague, the time.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SIMPSON: He would usually do everything last minute.
MR. COCHRAN: You have seen this yourself?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Describe that, doing things last minute.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, well, there has always been an ongoing joke within the family that we would always say, dad, you would have to get ready and he would always say, I would be get ready before you would be. And I would always prepare an hour before and he will get dressed in the last fifteen minutes before we would have to leave. He has done this for years.
MR. COCHRAN: That is something that you have seen as you were growing up?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: There was always going to be a race to see who was ready first, but he would start much behind you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You have seen that happen over a long period of time, have you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, I would like to shift our attention now. You described for us that when you first came back or talked to your dad about coming back you had met a lady by the name of Paula Barbieri and she was present during this conversation; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Had you known her before the time you came over and talked to your dad before you moved back in?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you recall approximately when it was that you first met Miss Paula Barbieri?
MS. SIMPSON: It was in `92.
MR. COCHRAN: And under what circumstances, if you recall, did you have occasion to meet her?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, when we would have phone conversations when I was at school and he told me he had met somebody.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Then so you had a conversation and you came west. Did you have occasion to attend any particular event where you had occasion to formally meet Miss Barbieri?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what was that occasion?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, Paula had thrown my father a birthday party on July 9th, which was yesterday, but in `94.
MR. COCHRAN: That is his birthday, July 9th?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And this party was in 1992?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And is that when you--
MS. SIMPSON: Yeah.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you meet her at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And where did this birthday party take place?
MS. SIMPSON: At our house.
MR. COCHRAN: The house? You mean the Rockingham residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: That is always the house, right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, sorry.
MR. COCHRAN: There was a birthday party on July 9th, 1992, his birthday, when you first met her?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, did you have occasion to discuss with your dad his relationship with Paula Barbieri? And you can answer that yes or no.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you talked about those kind of things?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And during the time since you were an adult during this time and after the time you moved back into the house, would you have occasion to discuss with your dad various subjects, serious subjects such as relationships?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion to discuss with him his relationship with Paula Barbieri?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: At any time did you have occasion to discuss with him his relationship with Nicole Brown Simpson?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, I want to direct your attention now to the week of June 6, 1994. On that particular week do you recall whether or not your father was home the entire week or was he away during part of the time or what was the circumstances?
MS. SIMPSON: What year was this?
MR. COCHRAN: The week of June 6, 1994. Do you recall whether your father went out of town at all that week?
MS. SIMPSON: He had been coming and going, yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Again, was that like a regular week for him?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you became aware that sometime during that week he left and went out of town; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, prior to that time, the time we are now talking about, June 6th or thereabouts, did there come a time when your dad and Nicole Brown Simpson stopped seeing each other again, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Was that sometime after mother's day of 1994?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Around that time?
MS. SIMPSON: It was around, yeah, mother's day.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, during the time--you have told us that during the time that Mr. Simpson was seeing Nicole Brown Simpson he was not seeing Paula Barbieri; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And after this time when Mr. Simpson, your father, was no longer seeing Miss Nicole Brown Simpson, did you have occasion to again see Paula Barbieri?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Was that after they--he had broken up with Nicole Brown Simpson?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And again, would that be after mother's day or so in May of 1994 that you saw Paula again?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion to discuss the various things that were taking place in your father's life at that time with him at all?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You were somebody he would come and talk with?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Prior to--strike that. Back to this particular week that we were talking about, the week of June 6, 1994, you had describe for us that you became aware that your dad went out of town that particular week. Do you recall that?
MS. SIMPSON: Pardon me?
MR. COCHRAN: You described for us that your dad went out of town during the week of June 6th, 1994?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Prior to that, before the June 6th week, do you recall a time that after your dad and Miss Nicole Brown Simpson were no longer dating that she became sick with pneumonia?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you recall that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Was that in the month of May, after they had broken up?
MS. CLARK: Your Honor, objection. It is all leading.
MR. COCHRAN: I am asking.
THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.
MR. COCHRAN: Certainly, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: When was that when she came down with pneumonia, if you recall, your best recollection?
MS. SIMPSON: Sometime in the month of May.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Tell us what you observed with regard to that. Did you ever see her at the house, the Rockingham residence, during this time frame?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Were you aware of her being at the Bundy location?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Were you aware of whether or not your father did anything in taking care of her?
MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay, no foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled. Foundation sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: With regard to whether or not your father cared for Miss Nicole Brown Simpson when she had pneumonia, how do you know that? What were the circumstances?
MS. CLARK: Objection, your Honor, leading.
THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.
MR. COCHRAN: Certainly.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion to see Miss Nicole Brown Simpson during this time of time when she was sick?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Would you describe that for us and tell us where you saw her.
MS. SIMPSON: I saw her once at Justin's graduation and then I went over to her house one day.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. When you say went over to her house, you went to the Bundy location?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You became aware that she was sick?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: What was her ailment at this time?
MS. SIMPSON: She had pneumonia.
MR. COCHRAN: And with regard to that, were you aware of whether or not your father did anything or visited her during this particular period of time?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Tell us what you observed in that regard?
MS. SIMPSON: He went over to her house one day to help--
MS. CLARK: Objection, no foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SIMPSON: He went over to the house to help her one day with the kids and to bring her some soup and medicine to see if she was okay.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. This was during the time after they had broken up while she was sick; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, back again to this week of June 6th, on this particular week did you become aware, toward the end of the week, specifically I guess around Friday, June 10th, did you become aware of your father coming back to California?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you recall when you saw him in and around that period of time, June 10, June 11, if at all?
MS. SIMPSON: I don't believe that I saw him on that day.
MR. COCHRAN: All right.
MS. SIMPSON: Not in person.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You were aware he was back in town, however?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do you recall whether or not you saw him at all on the Saturday which I think would be the 11th of June?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And on Sunday, June 12, 1994, did you spend the previous night, the Saturday night, in your residence in your room there on People's 66 as indicated?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did you have occasion on that morning to get up and go someplace?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you go at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: I went to church.
MR. COCHRAN: What church do you go to?
MS. SIMPSON: St. Martin's.
MR. COCHRAN: That is a church out near--in Brentwood there?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. After you went to church--what time did you go to church?
MS. SIMPSON: I went to church at 10:00.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion to return home after that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you see your father at all that morning?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Were you able to ascertain--do you know where he was at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you know he was back in town?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. How did you know that?
MS. SIMPSON: Because Gigi had told me, the housekeeper, that dad was coming in town on Friday and that he would be leaving at the end of the week.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you had a conversation with the housekeeper?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Her name is Gigi?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Her last name is Guarin?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that Guarin, Gigi Guarin?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe so.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you went to church and you came back home, and after you went to church did you have occasion to go out?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And were you out pretty much the whole day?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And now, you--do you have a car?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: A vehicle? And what kind of vehicle did you have?
MS. SIMPSON: A Saab.
MR. COCHRAN: What color is that?
MS. SIMPSON: Black.
MR. COCHRAN: What year is that?
MS. SIMPSON: `94.
MR. COCHRAN: When did you get that car?
MS. SIMPSON: In `93.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have that car when you came back to the Rockingham residence or did you get it after you got there or when did you get it, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Can you repeat that?
MR. COCHRAN: Certainly. Did you have that car when you moved back in with your dad in March of 1993?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Had that car been a graduation present for you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So where was that car? Where did you traditionally park that car when you were home at the residence? Can you show us that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Again with the Court's permission?
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: She is looking again at People's 66, your Honor?
MS. SIMPSON: Where this red dot is, (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: She is pointing toward a red dot on People's 66 and it is above the words "Driveway" on the diagram.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You parked your car traditionally there?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Can you tell us is there a place on the diagram where the Bentley was normally parked, and that is the black Bentley you talked about earlier?
MS. SIMPSON: Right here, (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: She has pointed to an above the word "Drive" on People's 66.
THE COURT: Yes, to the left of the red dot.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that where you parked your car, usually where the Bentley was parked?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes. We both parked our cars here, (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: In that kind of little inset area?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Both of you tried to park your cars in that location?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: The Bentley, as I understand your testimony, would be in front; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So when you left the house on Sunday, June 12th, after you had come back from church, how did you leave? Did you leave in your car? How did you leave?
MS. SIMPSON: I left in my car.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you did not return until what time?
MS. SIMPSON: Approximately around between 12:30 and 1:00.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that A.M.?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Had you been to a movie or something like that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you returned home about 12:30 or 1:00; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: When you returned home, you didn't see your dad, did you?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: It will stand.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you see your dad?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: And were you aware of whether or not he was going to go out of town again?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And if you can just tell us how did you know that?
MS. SIMPSON: Prior to Gigi telling me--
MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: All right.
THE COURT: The answer is stricken. The jury is to disregard that.
MR. COCHRAN: So you knew it only from talking to someone else, but you didn't know yourself?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Same objection.
MR. COCHRAN: I'm asking, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained. I mean overruled. Proceed.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you.
MR. COCHRAN: So you returned home and was anyone at home when you returned home after 12:30 on now June 13, 1994?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And who was home?
MS. SIMPSON: Kato.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Anybody else that you are aware was there?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
THE COURT: I think we know who she is talking about, but since we have two Katos here--
MS. SIMPSON: I'm sorry, Kato Kaelin.
MR. COCHRAN: Kato the human being?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Kato Kaelin. All right. When you returned home, where did you go at that point, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: To my room.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. That is Arnelle's room; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Then do you know about--did you at some point go to sleep?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know what time approximately you went to bed, went to sleep?
MS. SIMPSON: It had to have been around one o'clock. Between 1:00 and 1:30.
MR. COCHRAN: When you returned home did you notice anything unusual at all about the residence?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, if you went to bed and went to sleep about 1:00, 1:30 or thereabouts, did there come a time that you were awakened on the morning hours of June 13, 1994?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Describe for the Court and jury the circumstances that you were awakened, ma'am, if you recall.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I was awakened around between 5:00 and 5:30 by two gentlemen knocking at my door.
MR. COCHRAN: And these gentlemen knocking at your door, what did they say, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: They just--they were knocking on my door and they said that they had been outside ringing the bell and that they needed to speak with somebody who lived at the house.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. I presume, having been in bed, you were attired in your pajamas or whatever?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you get up at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And then tell us what happened at that point.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, they had told me that they needed to get in touch with my father and if I knew where he was.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. What did you say in response to that?
MS. SIMPSON: I said that, umm, he wasn't home but I didn't know where he was but I knew how to get in touch with him.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Then what happened after that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, we left out of my room and I went to--to go to get my phone book to get in touch with somebody who would know where my dad was.
MR. COCHRAN: When you say you went to get your phone book, I presume you didn't have your phone book with you at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: No, it wasn't.
MR. COCHRAN: With the Court's permission, did you go to some location to get your phone book?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You were talking to two men, were you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: These two people, were they Los Angeles Police Department detectives?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know their names now?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe Phillips and Lange.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Can you describe the person you think is Lange for us?
MS. SIMPSON: Lange would be the salt and pepper, he has more hair on him, and I think Phillips is the one with the mustache and the bald head.
MR. COCHRAN: You may have them reversed. There was one with a bald head?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Let's call him Lange.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Phillips, describe him again.
MS. SIMPSON: Salt and pepper hair, older, bigger build.
MR. COCHRAN: Let's for the time being call him Phillips?
MS. SIMPSON: I switched.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion then--would you step down and I want you to show the jury and the Court the route that you took as you sought to get this number so you could try to find your father. You could step all the way down if you want.
MS. SIMPSON: (Witness complies.) You want me to do what?
MR. COCHRAN: The question is can you look at this diagram and draw with the pointer the route that you took as you went to get your book to get the number to call--locate your dad?
MS. SIMPSON: Okay. Out of here, (Indicating), this way.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Your Honor, she is leaving, your Honor, the area marked "Arnelle's room" and she walks west to an area with some stairs. She goes up the stairs and proceeds past the pool.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Uh-huh.
MR. COCHRAN: She went around the north side of the house to an area marked "Driveway" again on People's 66.
MR. COCHRAN: And you went to an area marked "Entrance." Now, is that the entrance to the Rockingham residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what did you do when you got to that entrance, ma'am?
MS. SIMPSON: I went over here to the kitchen, through the kitchen to the phone here and then walked through here, (Indicating), to get to my car.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Let's back up for a moment. When you went to--got to the front door of the residence there, did you have to do anything before you got inside that residence?
MS. SIMPSON: I had to turn the alarm off.
MR. COCHRAN: There was an alarm on?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you turned the alarm off; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: When you walked that route that you just described for the Court and the jury, was anyone accompanying you at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Who was?
MS. SIMPSON: The two detectives.
MR. COCHRAN: The two people we described earlier?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Lange and Phillips?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You walked around and took the alarm off before you went inside?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Let me ask you specifically did you ever at any time walk from your residence here marked "Arnelle's room" and go through some door here at the back of the house?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: When the alarm is on is that possible?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Can't go in that way; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: The alarm key pad is where?
MS. SIMPSON: In the front of the house.
MR. COCHRAN: So you went around to the front of the house and turned off that alarm and then these two detectives came in behind you; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you described for the jury that you went into the kitchen area; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: They were still there with you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: After being in the kitchen area you left to go some other place.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Why did you leave the kitchen area to go outside?
MS. SIMPSON: To get my phone book out of the trunk of my car.
THE COURT: All right. And there is a door indicated in the area, your Honor, not marked kitchen, but there is a door on the side of the house above the garage area that she--Miss Simpson is indicating she went outside.
THE COURT: On the west side of the house approximately, oh, 2/5 of the way up from the bottom of the diagram.
MR. COCHRAN: Very good, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: And you went outside and where did you go?
MS. SIMPSON: To my car.
MR. COCHRAN: That is the black Saab you described?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: What did you get out of your car, if anything?
MS. SIMPSON: My phone book.
MR. COCHRAN: Did the detectives come with you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: While you were taking this route or whatever, did you have any conversation with those detectives at all?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And again will you tell us--and you may resume your seat.
MS. SIMPSON: (Witness complies.)
MR. COCHRAN: Which detective did you speak with, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: I spoke with--I'm confused with the names.
MR. COCHRAN: Describe him.
MS. SIMPSON: The one with the mustache and the bald head.
MR. COCHRAN: That is the one we are going to call Lange.
MS. SIMPSON: Lange.
MR. COCHRAN: And during that period of time what did you say to Detective Lange?
MS. SIMPSON: I had asked him that I really needed to know what was happening because I was nervous and he needed to tell me what was going on.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did he respond to you what was going on?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: What did he say to you?
MS. SIMPSON: He had told me that Nicole--did I know Nicole Simpson, and I said yes, and he said that she had been murdered and that there was somebody else with her.
MR. COCHRAN: And where were you when Detective Lange told you that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, right outside in the back of my car.
MR. COCHRAN: This is after you had come through the kitchen and gone out to get the day book?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: When you heard that, how did that make you feel?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm--
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SIMPSON: I immediately started crying and I had asked him are you sure that it was Nicole and he said yes. And I said I don't--basically I was just shocked. I couldn't believe it. I didn't know what to do.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. If you know, was the other detective standing close to you at the time that Detective Lange told you this or do you know where he was?
MS. SIMPSON: He was inside the house.
MR. COCHRAN: He had remained inside the house when you came outside for your day book?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Before we go back inside the house and after this conversation, were there any other detectives you saw around there at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And at what point did you see them?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, after I had come back inside the house and--
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do I understand that initially when you first were awakened and walked around you only saw the two; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: I saw three.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. You saw another one?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you see the third one?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, the third one was in front of Kaelin's room.
MR. COCHRAN: Kaelin's room?
MS. SIMPSON: Yeah.
MR. COCHRAN: Can you describe that person or do you know that person's name now?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: What is that person's name?
MS. SIMPSON: Mark Fuhrman.
MR. COCHRAN: And what was he doing in front of Kaelin's room, if you can describe for us what you saw?
MS. SIMPSON: They were talking.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. When you walk that route past Kaelin's room, were they talking at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you walk past them?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you ever see a fourth detective when you were on your way up to the front?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And where was that fourth detective?
MS. SIMPSON: He was further--can I show you?
MR. COCHRAN: Yes. You can show us if that is okay with the Court.
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. SIMPSON: Like over in this area, (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: This is in the area that is--
MS. SIMPSON: Right here, (Indicating).
THE COURT: Appears to be the patio area adjacent to the pool.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you know that person's name? Was that Vannatter?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Detective Vannatter?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, did you see Vannatter, Detective Vannatter, at that location when you were walking up the first time?
MS. SIMPSON: Uh-huh.
MR. COCHRAN: All right.
THE COURT: Is that yes?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, sorry.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. So as I understand it then, you left your residence and as you walked you saw mark Fuhrman having a conversation with Kato Kaelin?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: They were inside the room or outside the room?
MS. SIMPSON: Kato was standing in his doorway and Mr. Fuhrman was standing outside the door.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you walked up those stairs and as you proceeded on your way heading kind of northbound on the property, you saw Detective Vannatter somewhere in the patio area by the pool; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You continued on with Lange and with Phillips; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, after you got your day book out of the back of your vehicle, did you have occasion to go someplace at that point? Did you go some place?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you go?
MS. SIMPSON: I went back inside the house into the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: When you got back in the kitchen, tell us what happened at that point.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, then I had called Cathy Randa.
MR. COCHRAN: Let me stop you there. Who is Cathy Randa?
MS. SIMPSON: My father's assistant.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you called Cathy Randa and why did you call her?
MS. SIMPSON: To find out where my father was.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you ascertain that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And after you found out where he was, did you communicate that to any of the police officers, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell--which of the two did you tell? Do you remember if you told Lange or Phillips or who did you tell?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe I told both of them.
MR. COCHRAN: You told them both?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell them he was in Chicago?
MS. SIMPSON: I didn't know where he was but I knew he was out of town.
MR. COCHRAN: You found out from Cathy Randa where he was?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You then told them where he was?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, at this point in your kitchen area there, tell the jury who all was present.
MS. SIMPSON: Lange and Phillips.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. At this point you didn't see Vannatter or Fuhrman; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. What did you next see happen with regard to the kitchen area and the phones therein?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I called Cathy and told Cathy that I had some--some really bad news and then I--umm, I started to cry and I handed the phone over to I believe Lange and then they had a conversation.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So when you say "They," you mean Detective Lange and Miss Cathy Randa had a phone conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: And Cathy Randa.
MR. COCHRAN: After that--again, when you say Lange, do you mean the one with less hair on the top and the mustache?
MS. CLARK: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained. Leading, counsel.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: When you say "Lange," can you describe that person?
MS. SIMPSON: The guy with the mustache and hair loss. The one with the bald head.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Okay. So then after this conversation, after Lange had concluded the conversation with Cathy Randa, did you hear or see one of the police officers place a phone call?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And did that take place--how soon after the conversation with Cathy Randa?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, can you repeat that question now?
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. At the time the conversation concluded between Lange and Cathy Randa, how soon was another phone call made in that kitchen area or wherever?
MS. SIMPSON: There wasn't a--not on--by the detectives.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay.
MS. SIMPSON: We waited.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. You waited?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you at some point become aware that one of the detectives, Phillips or one of them placed a call to your father?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe--I believe that Cathy had called--said that she can get in touch with my father and my father called the house.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You think he called the house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do you know whether or not whenever the phone call came in, whether your dad--who did he speak to at that point, if you recall? One of the detectives or you or what?
MS. SIMPSON: He spoke with one of the detectives.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do you recall which detective it was that he spoke with?
MS. SIMPSON: I don't recall that.
MR. COCHRAN: Could you hear--you could hear one side of the conversation, could you?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And could you hear what the detective was saying?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you recall which detective it was at this point?
MS. SIMPSON: No, I don't recall which detective it was.
MR. COCHRAN: It was one of those two?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Either Lange or Phillips; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And at this point were you pretty upset?
MS. SIMPSON: Very.
MR. COCHRAN: You were crying?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Were you distraught?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And so you heard the conversation between--you heard what the detective said; is that correct, ma'am?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And at some point during that conversation did you have occasion to speak to your dad, Mr. O.J. Simpson?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: How did that--how did that happen?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, the phone was passed over to me and my father had asked me what was going on. And I said, "Dad, Nicole is dead. She is not here with us any more." And he said--
MS. CLARK: Objection. Hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Let me rephrase that. The detective--you heard the detective saying something into the phone; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And then the phone was passed over to you at some point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And did you recognize the voice of the person on the other end of the phone?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Without telling us what that person said, was that your dad?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You recognized his voice?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And how did he sound to you at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Very upset, emotional, umm, confused.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you then have a conversation with your father?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: How long approximately did that conversation last?
MS. SIMPSON: About five minutes at the most.
MR. COCHRAN: Were you still also very upset?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, would this be--
THE COURT: Yes. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take our mid-morning recess. Please remember all my admonitions to you. We will stand in recess for 15. And Miss Simpson, you may step down. Come back in fifteen minutes, please.
(Recess.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Back on the record. Let's have the jurors, please, Deputy Magnera.
(Brief pause.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. And Miss Arnelle Simpson, would you resume the witness stand, please. All right. Just pull the microphone closer, please. And Mr. Cochran, you may continue.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you very kindly, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: Are you okay?
MS. SIMPSON: Uh-huh.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, Miss Simpson, just before the break, we took our break, we were talking about a brief five-minute conversation that you had with your dad on the phone and you described for us he appeared distraught in his remarks to you; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And how were you at this time?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, upset, emotional, crying.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to your conversation with the detective which I think you said was Lange, describe for us what he said to you exactly during this time frame. What did Lange say to you about--about Nicole Brown Simpson's death, et cetera?
MS. SIMPSON: He had said to me that Nicole had been murdered and that there was another body with her.
MR. COCHRAN: And do you recall him saying anything else to you at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So after he made this statement and after the phone had been passed to you by the detective and you spoke with your dad and you described how he was, what then happened after that, ma'am?
MS. SIMPSON: Can you say that again?
MR. COCHRAN: What happened after that?
MS. SIMPSON: After--
MR. COCHRAN: After you finished talking with your dad, I'm sorry?
MS. SIMPSON: Oh, at that point I had asked if Nicole's mother knew and he said, "No, do you know how to get in touch with her?"
MR. COCHRAN: When you said you asked that, who did you ask that of?
MS. SIMPSON: To Lange.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And when he asked you whether or not you knew how to get in touch with her, what did you say?
MS. SIMPSON: I said yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Then what happened at that time, if anything?
MS. SIMPSON: I had called Judy Brown.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You knew--you had her number?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Had any of the detectives at that point asked you at all about the Browns at all?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You were the first one to bring that up?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. After you brought it up, you then got Miss Judy Brown on the phone?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And did you talk to her or try to talk with her?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Describe for us what you did and what you said at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I called Judy and I said, "Judy, I have some really bad news for you" and, umm, I attempted to tell her and I started crying and I gave the phone over to Lange.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you couldn't complete this conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: You were still distraught; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you then handed the phone back to the detective and did you hear his conversation to Miss Judy Brown?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I was too emotional then. I wasn't really listening to what he was saying.
MR. COCHRAN: But at any rate, you knew they had a conversation; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: This all took place in the kitchen area that you have been describing for us?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You are still in the kitchen area?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, during this time frame have you seen any of the other officers? You have described for us I think Lange and Phillips and you being in the kitchen area. Have you seen any other detectives inside the house at this time?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. At some point in your conversation with Miss Judy Brown, Juditha Brown, rather, did that conversation conclude?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And then what happened after that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, then the detective told me that I needed to go pick up Justin and Sydney, that they were at the police station.
MR. COCHRAN: And your two minor siblings; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And after you were told that, what did you do, if anything?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I told the detective that, umm, I couldn't go do this by myself, that I had to call somebody to help me.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did you call somebody then or at some later time?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I called at a later time.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, how were you dressed when you were in the kitchen area? Who were you attired at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: I had on pajamas.
MR. COCHRAN: Because you just got up?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you remain in the kitchen after they had indicated you should pick up your brother and sister?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Where did you go, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: I went to go into my room and the phone rang then.
MR. COCHRAN: Went back to your room?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. And when you got there the phone rang?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes, but it was on my way to the room--to my room.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you answer the phone?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And who was it?
MS. SIMPSON: My father.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Your father called back?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And then you had a--this would be a second conversation with him?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You can't tell us what was said, but how did he appear to you during this conversation? What was his demeanor?
MS. SIMPSON: He was very upset. He was crying. He was saying, "Arnelle, I don't understand."
THE COURT: Hold on.
MR. COCHRAN: You can't tell us--
MS. SIMPSON: Sorry. He was saying--he was very upset, emotional.
MR. COCHRAN: Have you ever at any time in your then 25 years heard your father sound like that?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: This conversation, where did you take that phone? Where did you take that--have that conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: I had the conversation in the TV room.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. The TV room is a room that is--would have been through the residence, that is off the--well, you tell us, where is the TV room?
MS. SIMPSON: It would be somewhere around here, (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, she is pointing to the center of the area of the house to the right of the area marked "Entrance."
MR. COCHRAN: It is in a line where you come in the front door but further back in the house; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that a room that has like three TV's in a wall?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Cochran, let me see you and Miss Clark for just a moment without the court reporter, please.
(A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)
(The following proceedings were held in open court:)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel. Mr. Cochran, you may proceed.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: Talking about describing the three TV's in the TV room.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: The conversation, this second conversation you had with your dad was in the TV room, there is a phone therein?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You were on your way back to your room when the phone rang and you then picked it up?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You described his demeanor. Now, you can't tell us what he said but did you tell--what did you tell your dad at that time with regard to what the police had told you?
MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Let me ask it another way: Did you say something to your dad during this conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And in the course of talking to your dad did you tell your dad--
MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay.
MR. COCHRAN: I can't finish the question.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell your dad what the police had told you? You can answer that yes or no.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you can't tell us what he said. Did you tell him everything the police had told you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And after you finished talking with your dad and telling him what the police had told you, he was upset and distraught as you have described?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, how long did this conversation last, this second conversation with your dad?
MS. SIMPSON: It was five to ten minutes.
MR. COCHRAN: And on this occasion did he talk to any detectives at all, if you know?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Did he remain distraught throughout the entire conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Were you able to ascertain, during that conversation, when your dad was coming home?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: You knew he was out of town at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you become aware at some point that he was coming home immediately?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And when was that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, later on that morning.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. All right. So then after this conversation with your dad, this second one, did you then--that conversation was concluded at some point; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you next go?
MS. SIMPSON: I went into my room to change and I made some phone calls.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you went back to your room?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And did you change clothes?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And who did you call at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: I called A.C., Al Cowlings. I called my mother. I called my brother and I called a friend.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. These calls you all made from your room; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: That was your phone?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: When you talked to your dad this second time, had the subject matter of the children and their whereabouts, had that come up at all?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So the two of you talked about that?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Again, with regard to the children, did you share with your dad what the police had told you about the location of the children?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you tell your dad that you were going to get the kids?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And so when you went back to your room you made these phone calls you have described for us; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you mentioned calling a Mr. Cowlings; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And why did you call him?
MS. SIMPSON: Because I wanted him to go with me to go pick up Justin and Sydney.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you talk to your brother, Jason?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And you mentioned talking to a friend named Joana?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Weren't you talking to a friend at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, at some point after you finished these conversations, you were dressed, what happened after that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I came back inside the house and at that time A.C. was on his way in. A.C. spoke with two of the detectives and then the detectives told A.C. where the kids were and then him and I went to go pick up Sydney and Justin.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So now that we are clear, A.C. is Mr. Allan Cowlings that you have described for us; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: He did arrive and about what time was it that he arrived?
MS. SIMPSON: It had to have been around 6:30, a quarter to 7:00.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. To the best of your recollection what time did the police first come to your door, if you know?
MS. SIMPSON: Between 5:00 and 5:30.
MR. COCHRAN: A.M.?
MS. SIMPSON: A.M.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, when you left the kitchen area on the way through the family room area and had this second conversation with your dad, did you see any other police officers in the house at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: When you went back to your room did you see any police officers outside at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Describe for the jury what you saw and where they were located.
MS. SIMPSON: I saw Fuhrman and Kato.
MR. COCHRAN: Where were they?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, standing a little bit further from the room that Kato was staying in.
MR. COCHRAN: In which direction, Miss Simpson?
MS. SIMPSON: (No audible response.)
MR. COCHRAN: You can step all the way down if you need to.
MS. SIMPSON: (Witness complies.) Right here, (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: She is now indicating an area, your Honor, near the stairs and near the area depicting the stairs, partially in the patio area.
THE COURT: Appears to be in the southern most portion of the pool patio area.
MR. COCHRAN: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: They were standing at that location?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did they still appear to be talking?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: They were still outside; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you see Detective Vannatter?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. When you left out of the house did you leave Lange and Phillips inside your father's house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Was there anybody else at home at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. How long were you out in your room getting ready and making these phone calls?
MS. SIMPSON: Ten to fifteen minutes.
MR. COCHRAN: After you got dressed and finished the phone calls, you came back inside the house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what route did you take coming back into the house, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, through the back door.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Had you opened that back door yourself when you went out?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: After you finished the conversation with your dad in the family room, you went out through the back door?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Can you point on the diagram again, People's 66, where that back door is?
MS. SIMPSON: Right here, (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: All right. She is indicating, your Honor, again on the eastern most part of the residence, an area which I presume appears to be a door leading from the residence.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So at that point there were only two officers left in the house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, after you finished and you came back in after ten or fifteen minutes, where did you go before you met Mr. A.C. Cowlings?
MS. SIMPSON: Back to the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: Back in the kitchen area?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: When you got back there, who was present?
MS. SIMPSON: Nobody was in the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Where were the detectives at that point, if you know?
MS. SIMPSON: I didn't know.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You just went back in the kitchen by yourself at this point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you see Lange?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you see Phillips?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Where was Fuhrman at that point, if you know?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, in the back speaking with Kato.
MR. COCHRAN: Still in that same area that you described there?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where was Vannatter at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I don't know.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And then how long did you stay in the kitchen before you became aware of Mr. Cowling's presence?
MS. SIMPSON: Very shortly, right after that.
MR. COCHRAN: He appeared?
MS. SIMPSON: In the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: And you saw him in the kitchen?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you go and find a detective at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, no.
MR. COCHRAN: Or did a detective come in there? What happened?
MS. SIMPSON: One of the detectives came back inside the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Do you remember which one it was? Can you describe him?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe it was Lange.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. When he came back in, was there a brief conversation between Detective Lange and Mr. A.C. Cowlings?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did the subject matter of that conversation deal with picking up the children?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Then how much time past before you left the Rockingham residence that morning to go and try to pick up your brother and sister?
MS. SIMPSON: Between fifteen and twenty minutes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. About what time was it then by now that you were about ready to leave?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, it I had to have been around seven o'clock, 7:15.
MR. COCHRAN: Again these are your best estimates?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you and Mr. Cowlings leave at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And did you go to the police station?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And did you arrange to pick up the children?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You did pick them up?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: After you picked the children up, what did you do then?
MS. SIMPSON: We went back to 360 north Rockingham.
MR. COCHRAN: To your home, Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Keep your voice up.
MS. SIMPSON: Thanks.
MR. COCHRAN: So do you know about what time it was that you actually left Rockingham to go pick up the children?
MS. SIMPSON: It had to have been around seven o'clock, maybe 7:15.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, when you left you've already described for us that the housekeeper was not there at that point; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Was there any other adult, other than Kato Kaelin, in and around 360 north Rockingham at the time that you left, other than the police officers?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: And when you left were there four police officers there and Mr. Kato Kaelin was somewhere around there; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you see the four detectives and where they were when you left?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: So now when you returned back to Rockingham, about what time is it now?
MS. SIMPSON: Between 7:15 and 7:30.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And when you come back, is it you, the children and Mr. Cowlings?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Where did you go when you come back in?
MS. SIMPSON: To the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you see anybody inside the kitchen?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do you see the detective when you get back?
MS. SIMPSON: Not right away, no.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. At some point after you get there do you see some or all of them?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Tell us when you first observe a detective or detectives after you return from picking up the children at the police station?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I was in the kitchen and one of the detectives had come through the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You were in there with the children?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And with A.C. Cowlings?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Which detective was it, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: I don't recall.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. It was one of them?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Did you have some conversation with him?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you see other detectives while you were back in the kitchen?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And when was that?
MS. SIMPSON: In the period that we were--I was trying to entertain the kids.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You were trying to keep the children occupied, were you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what were you doing?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, Sydney had fallen asleep on the couch and Justin was playing Nintendo so I was playing with him.
MR. COCHRAN: There had been no mention of the tragedy that happened, obviously?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So what happened after that as you tried to entertain Justin?
MS. SIMPSON: One of the detectives, I don't recall which one it was, told us that we had to leave the house.
MR. COCHRAN: You had to leave your own house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. You don't recall which one it was?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Where were you when he told you you had to leave?
MS. SIMPSON: In the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: And when you were told that, what did you do at that time, if anything?
MS. SIMPSON: At that point, umm, I went to speak with A.C.
MR. COCHRAN: All right.
MS. SIMPSON: Mr. Cowlings.
MR. COCHRAN: Mr. Cowlings was somewhere in the house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And did you have a conversation with him?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you have that conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: In the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: After that was some decision made with regard to the children?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Had you at some point that morning received a call from Miss Juditha Brown?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: She called you back?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: When was that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, after we had picked up the kids and during the period that we were just in the kitchen.
MR. COCHRAN: So you were back at the location?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: She called?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You talked to her on the phone?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did the subject matter of the children come up during that conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And there was a conversation with you and Juditha Brown?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: At some point that morning was a decision made to transport the children out to Juditha Brown's home in Orange County?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And who was to do that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, Mr. Cowlings.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did he do that at some point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Was this after the police had said you had to leave the house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So he then left; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: When you got back home from the police station and picking up the children, did you see Kato Kaelin at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where was he?
MS. SIMPSON: He was in the bar area.
MR. COCHRAN: In the bar area is generally where? And you might use the diagram again and use your pointer in making the relation to the TV room that we just previously described and the kitchen.
MS. SIMPSON: (Indicating).
MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, she is again indicating an area in the southern most portion of the residence, the bar area, not far where that door is that you go out.
THE COURT: Thank you.
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: What was Mr. Kaelin doing as he was seated in that bar area, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Speaking with a detective.
MR. COCHRAN: Which detective was he speaking with, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: I believe it was Vannatter.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Did you hear what they were saying?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So Mr. Cowlings leaves with the children. You are there now and Kato is there; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And the four detectives are still somewhere around there; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. What happens after that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, A.C. took the kids and took them to Laguna and I went into my room.
MR. COCHRAN: You went back to your room?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Once you got to your room, what did you do then, if anything?
MS. SIMPSON: I was gathering my things and the phone rang.
MR. COCHRAN: You got another phone call?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Was your brother Jason there by this time?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Was it your brother on the phone?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Who called you then?
MS. SIMPSON: My father.
MR. COCHRAN: You talked to your father again?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: This is now--this would be the third conversation with your dad that morning; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Again you can't tell us about that conversation, but in talking to your father and hearing his voice would you describe for the Court and jury again his demeanor, how he seemed and how he appeared to you at that point.
MS. SIMPSON: Upset, out of control, distraught, emotional.
MR. COCHRAN: Had you ever in your life ever heard him like that before?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Again, without telling us about that conversation, did the subject matter of that conversation concern when he was coming back to California?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Is that when you found out when he was coming back?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you ascertain he would be coming back very--as soon as possible?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: On that date, June 13th?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: It was in that conversation that you found that out?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: How long did that conversation last?
MS. SIMPSON: Five to ten minutes.
MR. COCHRAN: Were you able to tell him during that conversation anything with regard to the kids, the children, because you now have the children, right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did that subject matter come up?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And would I be correct in assuming in that conversation he was still in Chicago, was he?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Your dad? Was there any one else present during that conversation, other than you?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: After that conversation did you then get ready to leave the premises?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Had you made some arrangements for some place to go?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what time was it by now, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm--
MR. COCHRAN: Your best recollection?
MS. SIMPSON: A quarter to 8:00, eight o'clock.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what happened after that, after you--did you then leave the premises in your own car?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Did somebody come and pick you up or take you?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Somebody else came then?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Who was that?
MS. SIMPSON: My brother Jason.
MR. COCHRAN: That is the gentleman we described earlier? That is your sibling; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You are the oldest of the children?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And he is next in line to you, correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: He came--did he come in the house also?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: You went outside to where he was?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: He did not come inside?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: And with regard to your car, did you--did you try to take your car?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And what happened when you said you wanted to take your car?
MS. SIMPSON: They told me that I wasn't allowed to take my car.
MR. COCHRAN: So although you had to leave, you couldn't take your car; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Right.
MR. COCHRAN: So how did you finally leave the premises?
MS. SIMPSON: With my brother Jason.
MR. COCHRAN: So when Jason came he was going to take you someplace; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where did you go?
MS. SIMPSON: I went over to a friend's house.
MR. COCHRAN: And how long did you stay at this friend's house, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, the majority of the day.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, did there come a time when you had occasion to also speak with your mother, Miss Marguerite Thomas, on that date?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you talk to her at all while you were still at the Rockingham residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And where were you when you talked to her and made that call?
MS. SIMPSON: In my room.
MR. COCHRAN: Was that just before you left or at some earlier time?
MS. SIMPSON: Some earlier time.
MR. COCHRAN: It was the time before you went to get the children?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: You told her what had happened?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion to talk to her later on when you went to your friend's house?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you stay at your friend's house all day?
MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. CLARK: These are all leading questions.
THE COURT: Well, then you need to object in a timely manner. Proceed.
MR. COCHRAN: Tell us what you did after you were at your friend's house.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I was at my friend's house the majority of the day. I had called Cathy at some point. I fell asleep, woke up. I was watching TV, just talking, crying.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. How long did you stay at your friend's house, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Until about 5:30, 6:00.
MR. COCHRAN: Did the police--when the police told you you had to leave your house, did they tell you when you could come back home?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: So later in the evening, after 5:30, did you find out whether or not you could come back home?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Was it after then that you left your friend's house and did you then come back to the Rockingham residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And to the best of your recollection, Miss Simpson, what time was it when you got back to Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Around six o'clock, between 5:30 and six o'clock.
MR. COCHRAN: 5:30 and six o'clock on Monday, June 13th; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: So we have the time context, you had left about what time in the morning to leave to go to your friend's house?
MS. SIMPSON: Between 8:00 and 8:30.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Before you came back to the house at 5:30, six o'clock in the evening, had you become aware that your dad was back in town?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you become aware that your dad was back in town?
MS. CLARK: Same objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: How did you become aware of that?
MS. SIMPSON: Through TV
MR. COCHRAN: You saw it on TV?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: What did you see on TV?
MS. CLARK: Objection, hearsay, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SIMPSON: I saw my father walking into the house.
MR. COCHRAN: And so when you saw it, you knew it was back; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you have occasion that day or that afternoon to have still another conversation with your dad before you went back to Rockingham?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Where was he at that time, if you know, at the time of this conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: He was at his office.
MR. COCHRAN: And that is--whereabouts is that office?
MS. SIMPSON: In Brentwood off of San Vicente.
MR. COCHRAN: And during that conversation--again you can't tell us about the content of that conversation--but with regard to his demeanor, can you describe how he appeared to you as you talked to him on the phone during this conversation in the afternoon hours I guess of June 13th, 1994?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, he was very quiet. Umm, just still upset, but just--there weren't a lot of words said on his part, but on my part. He was just very emotional.
MR. COCHRAN: Had you ever seen him so emotional before in that conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: No, never.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. After that--after that conversation--about what time was that conversation?
MS. SIMPSON: Between 4:00 and 5:00.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. After that conversation, within an hour or so, you came back home; is that right?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Were you aware that he would be coming home at or around that time?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And was that based upon some discussions you had had with him?
MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you know what time your dad was going to be coming back home?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And did you try to time your arrival so you could get back about the same time?
MS. CLARK: Objection, leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: All right.
MR. COCHRAN: How did you time your arrival in getting back home?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, to what was said through our conversation.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Okay. I want you to describe for the Court and jury again what you saw when you arrived back at Rockingham.
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, there were a lot of police cars, media, a lot of commotion, just a lot of people in front and inside the house in the grounds of the house.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, when you left in the morning hours sometime maybe at around 8:00 or shortly after eight o'clock, did you see many police cars around at that point, if you recall?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Can you give an estimate? Can you think back and give us an estimate how many police cars you saw even as early as eight o'clock?
MS. CLARK: Objection, irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. SIMPSON: One or two.
MR. COCHRAN: Can you characterize that with the number you see when you came back at 5:30 in the evening?
MS. SIMPSON: There had to be more like four or five.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Were you allowed to come on the premises at that time?
MS. SIMPSON: No.
MR. COCHRAN: When you got there, tell us what happened.
MS. SIMPSON: When I got there, umm, I attempted to go through the gate and the police officer told me that I wasn't allowed to go in and that he would find out when I could go in.
MR. COCHRAN: Is this a uniformed police officer?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Then what happened after that?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, he left and then came back and he told me I could go--go in.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So then you came inside the residence?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: And where did you go at that point?
MS. SIMPSON: Umm, I went into the house, I went into the kitchen and then into the TV room.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And when you got inside the TV room did you see some people therein?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Now, so we are clear, what time was this, approximately?
MS. SIMPSON: 6:00, 6:30.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And when you got in there in the TV room which you had previously described, would you describe for the jury again whom you saw there.
MS. SIMPSON: I saw my father, I saw my grandmother, my Aunt Shirley and some of my dad's friends.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And your aunt Shirley, that is your brother's sister; is that correct?
MS. SIMPSON: Yes.
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