Grand Jury Testimony - June 22 & 23, 1994
311
1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, JUNE 22, 1994
2 10:25 A.M.
3 -O0O-
4
5 (AT THE BEGINNING OF THESE PROCEEDINGS,
6 20 GRAND JURORS WERE PRESENT.)
7
8 THE FOREPERSON: THIS HEARING IS NOW IN SESSION.
9 THE GRAND JURY IS CONTINUING THIS MORNING IN:
10 "NAME OF POSSIBLE DEFENDANT:
11 "ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON."
12 THE DEPUTIES DISTRICT ATTORNEY ARE MARSHA CLARK
13 AND DAVID CONN.
14 MADAME SECRETARY?
15
16 (ROLL CALLED.)
17
18 THE SECRETARY: LET THE RECORD REFLECT THERE ARE
19 TWENTY-ONE GRAND JURORS PRESENT -- EXCUSE ME -- THERE ARE
20 TWENTY GRAND JURORS PRESENT.
21 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
22 YOU MAY CONTINUE.
23 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
24 PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO CALL OFFICER RISKE.
25 THE FOREPERSON: OFFICER RISKE?
26 THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM.
27 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
28 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
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1 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
2 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
3 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
4 THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM, I DO.
5 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
6 OFFICER RISKE, PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR FULL
7 NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE.
8 THE WITNESS: ROBERT LANCE RISKE.
9 R-O-B-E-R-T L-A-N-C-E R-I-S-K-E.
10 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
11 YOU MAY PROCEED.
12 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
13
14 ROBERT LANCE RISKE,
15 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
16 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
17
18 E X A M I N A T I O N
19 BY MS. CLARK:
20 Q. OFFICER RISKE, WILL YOU PLEASE TELL THE LADIES
21 AND GENTLEMEN OF THIS JURY WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING.
22 A. I'M EMPLOYED BY LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT,
23 ASSIGNED TO PATROL, WEST L.A.
24 Q. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO ASSIGNED?
25 A. I HAVE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER 4 YEARS, BEEN
26 ASSIGNED TO WEST L.A. FOR 2-1/2.
27 Q. WHAT ARE YOUR DUTIES IN THAT CAPACITY?
28 A. JUST PATROL, ANSWERING RADIO CALLS.
313
1 Q. YOU DRIVE A PATROL CAR?
2 A. YES, MA'AM.
3 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE NIGHT OF
4 JUNE 12, 1994 OR THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13, 1994,
5 DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL DIRECTING YOU TO THE RESIDENCE
6 LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY IN LOS ANGELES?
7 A. NO; WE RECEIVED A CALL TO 874 SOUTH BUNDY.
8 Q. DID YOU RESPOND TO THAT LOCATION?
9 A. YES, MA'AM.
10 Q. IS THERE SUCH A NUMBER OR ADDRESS AT THAT
11 LOCATION?
12 A. YES, MA'AM.
13 Q. AND 874 WAS THE LOCATION OF WHAT KIND OF
14 RESIDENCE?
15 A. IT WAS A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE.
16 Q. AND WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE WHEN YOU ARRIVED
17 THERE?
18 A. WE OBSERVED A COUPLE WITH A DOG.
19 THEY WERE ONE HOUSE NORTH OF THE LOCATION.
20 THEY FLAGGED US DOWN.
21 Q. SORRY?
22 A. A COUPLE NORTH OF THE LOCATION, ONE HOUSE
23 NORTH OF THE LOCATION FLAGGED US DOWN AS WE ARRIVED AT 874.
24 Q. A COUPLE THAT WAS ONE DOOR NORTH OF THE CRIME
25 SCENE FLAGGED YOU DOWN?
26 A. RIGHT.
27 Q. AND THAT COUPLE THEN WAS STANDING IN FRONT OF
28 874 SOUTH BUNDY?
314
1 A. THEY WERE STANDING, I BELIEVE IT WAS, AT 870.
2 Q. AND WHERE DID THEY DIRECT YOU TO?
3 A. TO 875.
4 Q. AND DID YOU PROCEED TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
5 A. YES, MA'AM.
6 Q. THE COUPLE THAT WAS DIRECTING YOU, DID THEY
7 HAVE AN ANIMAL WITH THEM?
8 A. YES, MA'AM, A DOG.
9 Q. DID YOU EXAMINE THE DOG TO NOTE HIS APPEARANCE?
10 A. I HAD OBSERVED THE DOG TO HAVE BLOOD ON ALL
11 FOUR LEGS.
12 Q. I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAVE
13 BEEN TAKEN OF THE SCENE.
14 I WILL ASK YOU IF YOU RECOGNIZE THEM.
15 A. OKAY.
16 Q. FIRST OF ALL, SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 1.
17 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE SCENE DEPICTED THERE?
18 A. YES, MA'AM.
19 Q. WHERE WAS THAT?
20 WHAT WAS THE LOCATION?
21 A. THE LOCATION OF -A WOULD BE 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
22 Q. ALL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWN HERE, DO THEY
23 SHOW -- WITH THE EXCEPTION OF -F, WHERE ALL YOU CAN SEE IS
24 THE FACE OF THE VICTIM -- ARE ALL OF THOSE VICTIMS OF THE
25 CRIME SCENE YOU FOUND AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
26 A. YES, MA'AM.
27 Q. WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THAT
28 SCENE?
315
1 A. IT WAS 13 AFTER MIDNIGHT.
2 Q. DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU WERE
3 NOTIFIED TO PROCEED THERE?
4 A. IT WAS 9 MINUTES AFTER MIDNIGHT.
5 Q. IS THAT THE SCENE AS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 1?
6 IS THAT EXACTLY WHAT YOU FOUND WHEN YOU ARRIVED
7 THERE?
8 A. YES, MA'AM.
9 Q. SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 27, SIR.
10 DO YOU SEE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
11 A. YES, MA'AM.
12 Q. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PHOTOGRAPH -F THAT DOES
13 NOT DEPICT THE CRIME SCENE, DO YOU RECALL SEEING WHAT IS
14 DEPICTED IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B, -C, -D AND -E AT THAT SAME
15 LOCATION?
16 A. YES, MA'AM.
17 Q. AND AS SHOWN IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B, -C, -D AND
18 -E, IS THAT THE SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT?
19 A. YES, MA'AM.
20 Q. DID YOU TAKE ANY STEPS OR PRECAUTIONS TO MAKE
21 SURE THAT THE CRIME SCENE WAS PRESERVED AS YOU FOUND IT,
22 SIR?
23 A. WE TAPED OFF THE CRIME SCENE SO NOBODY CAN
24 ENTER IT.
25 Q. WHEN YOU SAY YOU "TAPED" IT, IN WHAT MANNER DID
26 YOU DO THAT?
27 A. WE USED CRIME SCENE TAPE.
28 WE ACTUALLY SECURED THE WHOLE BLOCK, THE INNER
316
1 BLOCK OF BUNDY, AND THEN WE CRIME SCENE TAPED FROM 873 TO
2 877.
3 Q. SO YOU ACTUALLY ROPED OFF FROM ONE HOUSE ABOVE
4 AND ONE HOUSE BELOW THE CRIME SCENE?
5 A. YES, MA'AM.
6 Q. DID THAT TAPE ALSO INCLUDE THE REAR AREA OF THE
7 BUILDING KNOWN AS 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
8 A. THE REAR WAS FROM THE SOUTH OF THE ALLEY OF THE
9 800 BLOCK AND JUST NORTH OF 875 BUNDY.
10 Q. DID YOU ALSO ROPE OFF THE AREA THAT -- LET ME
11 SHOW YOU A DIFFERENT PHOTOGRAPH, SIR.
12 YOU HAVE PEOPLE'S 28 NOW BEFORE YOU.
13 DO YOU SEE THAT, SIR?
14 A. YES, MA'AM.
15 Q. DO YOU RECALL THE LOCATION DEPICTED IN THOSE
16 PHOTOGRAPHS?
17 A. YES, MA'AM.
18 Q. WAS THAT ALSO TAPED OFF?
19 A. YES.
20 THAT WAS ENCOMPASSED IN THE TAPING I DESCRIBED
21 EARLIER.
22 Q. AND AFTER YOU TAPED IT OFF, DID YOU ENSURE THAT
23 NO ONE WAS PERMITTED TO WALK INTO ANY AREA THAT WAS
24 ENCLOSED BY THE TAPE?
25 A. YES, MA'AM.
26 Q. DID YOU PRESERVE IT IN THAT MANNER UNTIL THE
27 INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ARRIVED?
28 A. YES, MA'AM.
317
1 Q. THAT'S STANDARD PROCEDURE?
2 A. YES, MA'AM.
3 Q. AND NO ONE DID PASS ACROSS THE TAPE AT ANY OF
4 ITS PERIMETERS?
5 A. WELL, MYSELF AND ONE OTHER OFFICER, WE CROSSED
6 THE TAPE AND WE SEARCHED THE RESIDENCE OF THAT LOCATION.
7 Q. AND WHEN YOU DID SO, DID YOU TAKE CARE NOT TO
8 STEP IN THE BLOOD OR DISTURB ANY OF THE EVIDENCE?
9 A. YES, MA'AM.
10 Q. WHEN I SAY, "ANY OF THE EVIDENCE," I'M TALKING
11 ABOUT BLOOD DROPS OR BLOODY FOOTPRINTS.
12 A. YES, MA'AM.
13 Q. WAS ALL EVIDENCE THAT YOU FOUND AT THE SCENE
14 PRESERVED IN THE MANNER THAT YOU FOUND IT?
15 A. YES, MA'AM.
16 Q. THIS IS PEOPLE'S 26, SIR.
17 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE EVIDENCE THAT IS SHOWN IN
18 THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
19 A. YES, MA'AM, I DO.
20 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B, -C AND -E AND -F, DO
21 THOSE DEPICT THE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE AS YOU FOUND THEM AT THE
22 CRIME SCENE --
23 A. YES, MA'AM, THEY DO.
24 Q. -- IN THE LOCATION IN WHICH YOU FOUND THEM?
25 A. YES, MA'AM.
26 Q. SO THEY ARE UNDISTURBED FROM THE TIME YOU SAW
27 THEM?
28 A. YES, MA'AM; RIGHT.
318
1 Q. WHEN YOU WENT UP TO -- YOU WENT TO THE DOOR OF
2 THE RESIDENCE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
3 A. YES, MA'AM, I DID.
4 Q. FOR WHAT PURPOSE DID YOU DO THAT?
5 A. WHEN WE FIRST ARRIVED, THE DOOR WAS OPEN AND
6 MYSELF AND ANOTHER OFFICER WENT INTO THE RESIDENCE TO CHECK
7 FOR OTHER VICTIMS, POSSIBLE SUSPECTS.
8 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "OPEN," SIR, DO YOU MEAN UNLOCKED
9 OR AJAR?
10 A. IT WAS STANDING OPEN.
11 Q. HOW FAR?
12 A. THREE-QUARTERS OF THE WAY.
13 Q. DID YOU NOTICE ANY BLOODY FOOTPRINTS ON THE
14 CARPETING OR ANY EVIDENCE OF DISTURBANCE OR STRUGGLE INSIDE
15 THE HOUSE?
16 A. NO, I DIDN'T.
17 Q. DID YOU ALSO SECURE THE HOUSE AND MAKE SURE
18 THAT NO ONE WAS PERMITTED IN OR OUT AFTER YOU FOUND THAT
19 THERE WERE NO OTHER VICTIMS THERE?
20 A. YES, MA'AM.
21 Q. DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY
22 OTHER OCCUPANTS THAT WERE NOT VICTIMS IN THE SENSE OF BEING
23 ATTACKED THAT NIGHT IN THE HOUSE?
24 A. YES.
25 THERE WERE TWO JUVENILES UPSTAIRS.
26 Q. TWO CHILDREN?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. WHAT WERE THEY DOING?
319
1 A. THEY WERE SLEEPING.
2 Q. WERE THEY ASLEEP WHEN YOU FOUND THEM?
3 A. YES, MA'AM.
4 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THEM?
5 A. WE WOKE THEM UP AND ESCORTED THEM OUT OF THE
6 BACK OF THE RESIDENCE.
7 Q. AND AFTER THAT POINT?
8 A. THEY WERE TRANSPORTED TO WEST L.A. STATION.
9 Q. THE CHILDREN, WAS IT A GIRL AND BOY?
10 A. YES, MA'AM.
11 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
12 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
13 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
14 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
15 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
16
17 (SHORT PAUSE.)
18
19 Q. BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU WENT TO CHECK THE
20 RESIDENCE, 875 SOUTH BUNDY, THAT IS, THE INSIDE OF THE
21 HOUSE, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER ANY LIGHTS WERE ON?
22 A. I BELIEVE ALL THE LIGHTS WERE ON EXCEPT THE
23 LIGHTS IN THE CHILDREN'S ROOM, A COUPLE BATHROOMS AND THE
24 EXERCISE ROOM UPSTAIRS.
25 Q. SO THE HOUSE WAS FULLY LIT?
26 A. RIGHT.
27 Q. DID YOU HAPPEN TO GO -- WAS THERE A MASTER
28 BEDROOM THERE OR ONE THAT APPEARED TO YOU TO BE A MASTER
320
1 BEDROOM?
2 A. YES, MA'AM.
3 Q. WAS THAT ALSO FULLY LIT?
4 A. THE BEDROOM ITSELF WAS LIT.
5 THERE WAS -- THE BEDROOM CONNECTED TO THAT
6 BATHROOM WAS DARK, BUT THERE WERE CANDLES LIT IN THE
7 BATHROOM.
8 Q. IN THE BATHROOM?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. BUT THE BEDROOM LIGHTS WERE ON?
11 A. YES.
12 Q. WAS THE BED MADE?
13 A. NO.
14 Q. WAS IT UNMADE?
15 A. IT WAS UNMADE.
16 Q. DID IT LOOK AS THOUGH SOMEONE HAD BEEN SLEEPING
17 IN IT OR RESTING IN IT?
18 A. WELL, SOMEONE APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN IN IT.
19 Q. WERE THE COVERS TURNED DOWN?
20 A. NO. THEY WERE MORE PILED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
21 BED.
22 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
23 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
24 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
25 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
26 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
27
28 (SHORT PAUSE.)
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1
2 THE FOREPERSON: THERE BEING NO FURTHER QUESTIONS,
3 OFFICER RISKE, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, PLEASE LISTEN VERY
4 CAREFULLY TO WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU NOW:
5 YOU ARE ADMONISHED NOT TO REVEAL TO ANY OTHER
6 PERSON, EXCEPT AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, WHAT QUESTIONS WERE
7 ASKED OF YOU AND WHAT RESPONSES WERE GIVEN.
8 IN ADDITION, YOU ARE NOT TO REVEAL ANY OTHER
9 MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATURE OR SUBJECT OF THE
10 INVESTIGATION WHICH YOU LEARNED DURING YOUR APPEARANCE
11 HERE, UNLESS AND UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A TRANSCRIPT OF THESE
12 PROCEEDINGS IS MADE PUBLIC.
13 I WISH TO ADVISE YOU ALSO THAT A VIOLATION OF
14 THIS ORDER CAN BE THE BASIS OF A CONTEMPT CHARGE AGAINST
15 YOU.
16 DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
17 THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM, I DO.
18 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
19 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
20 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
21
22 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
23 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
24
25 MS. CLARK: PEOPLE WOULD CALL DETECTIVE VANNATTER.
26 THE FOREPERSON: DETECTIVE PHILLIP VANNATTER?
27 THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM.
28 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
322
1 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
2 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
3 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
4 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
5 THE WITNESS: I DO.
6 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
7 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
8 THE FOREPERSON: DETECTIVE VANNATTER, PLEASE STATE
9 AND SPELL YOUR FULL NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE
10 MICROPHONE.
11 THE WITNESS: PHILLIP LEWIS VANNATTER.
12 P-H-I-L-I-P L-E-W-I-S V-A-N-N-A-T-T-E-R.
13 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
14 YOU MAY PROCEED.
15
16 PHILLIP LEWIS VANNATTER,
17 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
18 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
19
20 E X A M I N A T I O N
21 BY MS. CLARK:
22 Q. DETECTIVE VANNATTER, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU
23 DO FOR A LIVING, PLEASE.
24 A. YES.
25 I'M A POLICE DETECTIVE FOR THE CITY OF
26 LOS ANGELES.
27 Q. AND WHERE ARE YOU ASSIGNED, SIR?
28 A. ROBBERY/HOMICIDE DIVISION.
323
1 Q. ALL RIGHT.
2 A. HOMICIDE SPECIAL SECTION.
3 Q. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO ASSIGNED?
4 A. I HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED THERE FOR THE PAST
5 15 YEARS.
6 Q. CAN YOU TELL ME IN THE COURSE OF THAT
7 ASSIGNMENT, SIR, HOW MANY HOMICIDES HAVE YOU INVESTIGATED.
8 A. WELL, I EVEN WORKED HOMICIDE BEFORE I WORKED
9 THERE.
10 I WORKED HOMICIDE IN A COUPLE OF THE DIVISIONS
11 IN THE CITY, PROBABLY -- OH, OVER 200 THAT I WOULD HAVE TO
12 SAY I HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN.
13 Q. IS THAT OVERALL, IN TERMS OF THE ENTIRE TIME
14 THAT YOU HAVE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER?
15 A. OH, NO. I HAVE BEEN AT MANY, MANY SCENES.
16 I HAVE PERSONALLY BEEN INVOLVED IN OVER 200,
17 BUT I HAVE PROBABLY BEEN AT OVER 500 OR 600 HOMICIDE
18 SCENES.
19 Q. OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR CAREER?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. WHAT IS IT THAT YOUR SECTION DOES?
22 A. WE STRICTLY INVESTIGATE HOMICIDES.
23 WE ARE CALLED THE HOMICIDE SPECIAL SECTION. WE
24 HANDLE VERY INVOLVED CASES, HIGH-PROFILE CASES OR SERIAL
25 MURDER TYPE CASES.
26 Q. AND YOU ARE A WORKING PARTNER WITH DETECTIVE
27 TOM LANGE?
28 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
324
1 Q. AND WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO THIS CASE AS A PARTNER
2 WITH TOM LANGE, BOTH OF YOU, TO INVESTIGATE THIS CASE?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. AT WHAT POINT WERE YOU ASSIGNED THIS CASE,
5 SIR? AT WHAT TIME?
6 A. I RECEIVED THE INITIAL PHONE CALL AT
7 APPROXIMATELY 3:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING OF JUNE THE 13TH,
8 MONDAY MORNING.
9 Q. AFTER YOU RECEIVED THAT PHONE CALL, SIR, WHAT
10 DID YOU DO?
11 A. I PREPARED MYSELF AND RESPONDED TO THE SCENE.
12 Q. WHERE WAS THAT?
13 A. AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE IN WEST LOS ANGELES.
14 Q. TO YOUR RIGHT, SIR, ARE EXHIBITS PEOPLE'S 1, 28
15 AND ON THE -- JUST BELOW THE BULLETIN BOARD STANDING ON THE
16 FLOOR, PEOPLE'S 26.
17 A. YES.
18 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THESE
19 PHOTOGRAPHS?
20 A. YES, I DO.
21 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT IS.
22 A. YES.
23 THOSE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE TAKEN AT THE
24 SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE.
25 Q. THE SCENE DEPICTED THERE, IS THAT THE MANNER
26 WHICH YOU FOUND IT?
27 A. YES; THAT'S CORRECT.
28 Q. WHILE YOU WERE AT THAT SCENE, SIR, DID YOU
325
1 HAPPEN TO NOTICE THE EVIDENCE DEPICTED IN PHOTOGRAPH -A OF
2 PEOPLE'S 26?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. IF YOU CAN TELL US, SIR -- AND IT'S ALSO SHOWN
5 I BELIEVE IN PEOPLE'S 27, PHOTOGRAPH -E?
6 A. YES; THAT'S CORRECT.
7 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IT IS THAT IS BEING SHOWN
8 IN EACH OF THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I HAVE JUST DESCRIBED.
9 A. YES.
10 THAT'S A MAN'S LEATHER GLOVE, LEFT HAND.
11 Q. DID YOU REMAIN AT THAT CRIME SCENE FOR SOME
12 TIME?
13 A. I WAS AT THAT CRIME SCENE ORIGINALLY.
14 I ARRIVED AT THAT CRIME SCENE JUST SHORTLY
15 AFTER 4:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING AND I LEFT THAT CRIME
16 SCENE SOME TIME SHORTLY AFTER 5:00 O'CLOCK.
17 Q. WHERE DID YOU GO?
18 A. I MET MY PARTNER AT THE CRIME SCENE.
19 WHEN I ARRIVED THERE, WEST LOS ANGELES
20 DETECTIVES HAD THE CRIME SCENE UNDER SECURITY.
21 WE DID A WALK-THROUGH OF THE CRIME SCENE,
22 LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE AND CAME TO A DECISION THAT WE
23 NEEDED TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION, SINCE WE HAD IDENTIFIED THE
24 FEMALE VICTIM AT THAT SCENE.
25 WE HAD IDENTIFIED HER AS NICOLE SIMPSON BROWN
26 OR NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.
27 I WAS ALSO TOLD BY WEST LOS ANGELES DETECTIVES
28 THAT THERE WERE TWO YOUNG CHILDREN THAT HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM
326
1 THE RESIDENCE, THE TWO CHILDREN OF THE SIMPSONS; THAT THEY
2 WERE PRESENTLY AT WEST LOS ANGELES POLICE STATION.
3 SO WE MADE A DETERMINATION AT THAT POINT TO
4 ATTEMPT TO LOCATE MR. SIMPSON TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION TO
5 HIM.
6 Q. WHERE DID YOU GO IN ORDER TO DO THAT?
7 A. WE DETERMINED HIS RESIDENCE LOCATION WAS AT
8 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM DRIVE IN WEST LOS ANGELES AND MYSELF,
9 MY PARTNER AND TWO WEST L.A. DETECTIVES RESPONDED TO THAT
10 LOCATION.
11 Q. THAT WAS IN BRENTWOOD?
12 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
13 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT THERE?
14 A. WELL, WE WERE ATTEMPTING TO MAKE NOTIFICATION,
15 THE DEATH NOTIFICATION, AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT WE HAD THE
16 CHILDREN AND WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WE WERE GOING TO FIND
17 THERE.
18 AFTER ARRIVING THERE, WE WENT TO THE INTERCOM
19 SYSTEM THAT RINGS THE PHONE TO THE HOME, AND THAT WOULD
20 HAVE BEEN ON THE ASHFORD SIDE OF THE HOME, WHICH WOULD HAVE
21 BEEN THE NORTH GATE WHERE THE INTERCOM SYSTEM WAS LOCATED.
22 Q. EXCUSE ME, SIR.
23 I WILL PUT UP A PHOTOGRAPH SO YOU CAN POINT TO
24 IT FOR THE JURY WHILE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.
25 A. CERTAINLY.
26 Q. ALL RIGHT.
27 I HAVE PUT UP EXHIBITS PEOPLE'S 2 AND 3.
28 IF YOU WOULD, SIR -- PEOPLE'S 2 IS THE
327
1 PHOTOGRAPHS; PEOPLE'S 3 IS THE DIAGRAM.
2 IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO USE THOSE TO ILLUSTRATE TO
3 THE JURY WHAT YOU ARE TESTIFYING ABOUT, JUST IDENTIFY
4 WHETHER IT'S 2 OR 3 THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU DO
5 THAT.
6 A. CERTAINLY.
7 MAY I STAND IN FRONT OF IT WHEN I DO THAT?
8 Q. YES.
9 AND YOU HAVE A POINTER IN FRONT OF YOU.
10 A. WHEN WE FIRST RESPONDED TO THE LOCATION, WE
11 PARKED ON THE ASHFORD SIDE. WE PARKED OUR VEHICLES OVER IN
12 THIS AREA.
13 THERE IS AN INTERCOM SYSTEM THAT'S LOCATED AT
14 THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, WHICH WOULD BE THE ASHFORD
15 GATE.
16 WE ATTEMPTED TO USE THIS INTERCOM SYSTEM FOR A
17 PERIOD OF TIME AND GOT NO RESPONSE.
18 STANDING THERE AT THE GATE, WE COULD HEAR THE
19 PHONE RINGING INSIDE THE RESIDENCE WHEN WE WOULD PUNCH THE
20 BUTTON.
21 WE RECEIVED NO RESPONSE.
22 LOCATED RIGHT IN THIS AREA HERE BY THE GATE,
23 THERE IS A WESTEC SECURITY SIGN THAT INDICATES THAT THE
24 RESIDENCE IS PROTECTED BY WESTEC SECURITY, WHICH IS A
25 PRIVATE SECURITY COMPANY.
26 WE GOT IN TOUCH WITH THEM, WE MADE TELEPHONIC
27 CONTACT AND REQUESTED THEIR ASSISTANCE TO ATTEMPT TO
28 DETERMINE IF THERE WAS ANYONE IN THIS RESIDENCE.
328
1 DURING THIS POINT IN TIME WHILE WE ARE TRYING
2 TO MAKE NOTIFICATION HERE, WE OBSERVED PARKED -- OR I
3 OBSERVED PARKED OVER BY THE ROCKINGHAM GATE HEADED NORTH A
4 1994 WHITE FORD BRONCO. IT WAS HEADED NORTH AT WHAT WOULD
5 BE THE EAST CURB OF ROCKINGHAM JUST NORTH OF THE GATE.
6 THE VEHICLE WAS SLIGHTLY COCKED WITH THE FRONT
7 END CLOSER TO THE CURB THAN THE REAR END OF THE VEHICLE,
8 LIKE IT HAD BEEN HURRIEDLY PULLED UP AND PARKED AT THE CURB
9 AND NOT PARKED IN A STRAIGHT ANGLE.
10 AFTER THE ARRIVAL OF WESTEC SECURITY, WE
11 OBTAINED THE PHONE NUMBER TO THE RESIDENCE AND ATTEMPTED TO
12 MAKE SEVERAL PHONE CALLS BY CELLULAR PHONE TO AROUSE
13 SOMEONE IN THE RESIDENCE.
14 WE RECEIVED NO ANSWER. ALL WE GOT WAS AN
15 ANSWER PHONE INSIDE THE HOME.
16 DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME, WE DETERMINED --
17 Q. HOW DID YOU DETERMINE THAT THE ANSWER PHONE
18 THAT WAS ANSWERING WAS INSIDE THE HOME?
19 A. IT WAS A PHONE NUMBER THAT WAS SUPPLIED TO US
20 BY WESTEC SECURITY TO THE RESIDENCE.
21 Q. WHEN THE ANSWER PHONE PICKED UP THE CALL,
22 WHAT DID IT SAY?
23 A. THE VOICE ON THE PHONE INDICATED THAT IT WAS
24 O.J.
25 Q. O.J. SIMPSON?
26 A. O.J.
27 Q. JUST O.J.?
28 A. YES.
329
1 WE ALSO QUESTIONED WESTEC SECURITY AT THAT
2 POINT IF THEY HAD ANY NOTIFICATION THAT THE PEOPLE OF THIS
3 RESIDENCE WERE HOME OR WHETHER THEY WERE OUT OF TOWN OR
4 WHATEVER, AND WESTEC INFORMED US THAT THEY --
5 Q. EXCUSE ME. DON'T TELL US WHAT WESTEC TOLD
6 YOU.
7 BUT THEY DID TELL YOU SOMETHING?
8 A. YES.
9 Q. BASED ON WHAT THEY TOLD YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO?
10 A. AT THAT POINT, GOING BACK TO THE VEHICLE, WE
11 HAD OBSERVED BLOOD ON THE VEHICLE, ON THE DOOR HANDLE, THE
12 DRIVER'S DOOR HANDLE OF THE VEHICLE, OR WHAT APPEARED TO BE
13 BLOOD.
14 AT THAT POINT, WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF
15 SITUATION WE HAD.
16 ONE OF THE DETECTIVES WITH ME CLIMBED OVER THE
17 FENCE AT THIS POINT AND OPENED THE GATE.
18 Q. FOR THE RECORD, YOU ARE REFERRING TO
19 PEOPLE'S 3, THE ASHFORD SIDE GATE?
20 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
21 Q. AFTER WE OPENED THE GATE, PROCEEDED TO THE
22 FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE AND ATTEMPTED TO AROUSE SOMEONE
23 IN THE HOME AND WAS UNABLE TO DO SO.
24 WE THEN STARTED SECURING THE PROPERTY, NOT
25 KNOWING WHAT WE HAD.
26 WE WENT AROUND THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY
27 TO THE REAR WHERE THERE ARE APPARENTLY GUEST QUARTERS.
28 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "NOT KNOWING WHAT WE HAD," SIR,
330
1 WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
2 WHAT WERE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT?
3 A. WELL, AT THAT POINT, OBSERVING BLOOD OUT HERE,
4 WE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER WE HAD ANOTHER MURDER SCENE OR NOT.
5 IT'S QUITE CONCEIVABLE THAT KNOWING THAT THE
6 EX-WIFE OF MR. SIMPSON HAD BEEN MURDERED WITHIN A VERY
7 CLOSE DISTANCE OF HIS RESIDENCE, SOMETHING COULD HAVE
8 OCCURRED THERE, TOO.
9 AND, RECEIVING NO RESPONSE FROM THE HOME, WE
10 HAD NO IDEA WHAT OCCURRED.
11 SO WE WENT TO THE REAR AREA OF THE HOUSE TO
12 WHAT APPEARED TO BE GUEST QUARTERS AND STARTED KNOCKING ON
13 THOSE DOORS IN AN ATTEMPT TO FIND OUT IF THERE WAS ANYBODY
14 AT THE LOCATION.
15 WHEN WE DID THAT, AT THE FIRST QUARTER, WE
16 AROUSED A PERSON WHO IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS "KATO," WHO
17 LATER TOLD US HIS NAME WAS BRIAN KAELIN.
18 HE TOLD US --
19 Q. IS THAT ONE OF THE WITNESSES YOU ASSISTED IN
20 ARRIVING TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE GRAND JURY?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
22 HE TOLD US THAT THE OTHER GUEST QUARTERS --
23 Q. EXCUSE ME.
24 WITHOUT TELLING US WHAT HE SAID, DID HE GIVE
25 YOU SOME INFORMATION, SIR?
26 A. YES, HE DID.
27 Q. AND, BASED ON WHAT HE TOLD YOU, WHAT DID YOU
28 DO?
331
1 A. WE KNOCKED AT THE OTHER GUEST QUARTER DOOR AND
2 AROUSED THE FEMALE WHO IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS ARNELL
3 SIMPSON, THE DAUGHTER OF O.J. SIMPSON.
4 Q. DID YOU THEN HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HER?
5 A. YES.
6 Q. AND AFTER YOU HAD THE CONVERSATION WITH HER,
7 WHAT DID YOU DO?
8 A. WE GAINED ADMITTANCE TO THE HOUSE AND, WITH HER
9 ASSISTANCE, CONTACTED MR. SIMPSON BY TELEPHONE.
10 Q. DID YOU SPEAK TO MR. SIMPSON OR WERE YOU
11 PRESENT WHEN SOMEONE ELSE DID SO?
12 A. I WAS PRESENT, YES.
13 Q. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
14 A. IT WAS BEGINNING TO LIGHTEN UP.
15 WE WALKED OUTSIDE TO MAKE SURE NOTHING WAS
16 WRONG WITH THE RESIDENCE AND EVERYTHING WAS OKAY, AND WE
17 WERE LOOKING AROUND THE HOUSE TO MAKE SURE NOTHING HAD
18 OCCURRED AT THE HOME.
19 AND ON THE -- WHICH WOULD BE THE SOUTH SIDE OF
20 THE RESIDENCE, IN THIS WALKWAY --
21 MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS IS POINTING
22 TO THE AREA JUST BELOW THE GARAGE BETWEEN THE SOUTHERNMOST
23 PORTION OF THE GARAGE WALL AND THE BOUNDARY LINE OF THE
24 PROPERTY, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY MARKED BY ANOTHER WITNESS
25 WITH A CIRCLE AND A LINE.
26 THE WITNESS: IT'S A VERY NARROW WALKWAY BETWEEN THE
27 HOUSE AND THE FENCE THAT APPARENTLY SEPARATES THE TWO
28 PROPERTIES FROM THE OTHER PROPERTY THAT WOULD BE SOUTH OF
332
1 THAT LOCATION.
2 I WAS DIRECTED BY ANOTHER DETECTIVE WHO
3 PRECEDED ME IN THERE TO A MAN'S GLOVE THAT WAS LYING IN
4 THIS AREA.
5 Q. BY MS. CLARK: MAY I SHOW YOU ANOTHER
6 PHOTOGRAPH?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. SHOWING YOU NOW PEOPLE'S 4.
9 DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 4?
10 A. YES, I DO.
11 Q. TELL US WHAT YOU SEE.
12 A. -A AND -B DEPICT THE AREA ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF
13 THE HOUSE THAT I HAD PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED BETWEEN THE
14 ACTUAL EXTERIOR WALL AND THE FENCE OF THE ADJOINING
15 PROPERTY.
16 -C, -D AND -E DEPICT THE LEATHER GLOVE THAT I
17 OBSERVED LYING ON THE GROUND THERE IN THIS AREA, THE MAN'S
18 LEATHER GLOVE THAT IS A RIGHT-HANDED GLOVE.
19 Q. IS THAT THE GLOVE YOU WERE DESCRIBING THAT YOU
20 HAD BEEN DIRECTED TO SEE BY ANOTHER DETECTIVE?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
22 Q. IS IT DEPICTED IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS AS YOU
23 FOUND IT?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. NOW, YOU HAD BEEN TO THE ORIGINAL CRIME SCENE.
26 IS THAT CORRECT?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. AND YOU TOLD US EARLIER THAT YOU HAD SEEN A
333
1 GLOVE THERE.
2 IS THAT CORRECT?
3 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
4 Q. WHEN YOU SAW THE GLOVE DEPICTED IN THE
5 PHOTOGRAPHS YOU HAVE JUST POINTED TO IN PEOPLE'S 4, I
6 BELIEVE, DID SOMETHING SEIZE YOUR ATTENTION?
7 A. YES.
8 THE GLOVE I SAW AT THE SOUTH SIDE OF
9 MR. SIMPSON RESIDENCE APPEARED TO BE THE RIGHT GLOVE TO THE
10 LEFT GLOVE THAT I HAD OBSERVED AT THE ORIGINAL CRIME
11 SCENE.
12 THEY APPEARED TO BE THE MATCHING RIGHT AND LEFT
13 GLOVES.
14 Q. NOW, DID YOU ASK OR MAKE A REQUEST THAT THOSE
15 GLOVES BE PHOTOGRAPHED TOGETHER IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE
16 THE MATCHING PAIR?
17 A. YES, I DID.
18 MS. CLARK: MADAME FOREMAN, I WILL ASK TO BE MARKED
19 TWO MORE PHOTOGRAPHS. THESE ARE OF BROWN LEATHER GLOVES.
20 I WOULD LIKE THE FIRST PHOTOGRAPH SHOWING THE
21 BACK OF THE HAND OF THE GLOVES MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 30.
22 THE FOREPERSON: SO ORDERED.
23 (MARKED FOR I.D.: = EXHIBIT 30.)
24 MS. CLARK: THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH IS ALSO OF BROWN
25 LEATHER GLOVES, SHOWING THE PALM SIDE OF THE GLOVES.
26 I WOULD ASK THAT BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 31.
27 THE FOREPERSON: SO ORDERED.
28 (MARKED FOR I.D.: = EXHIBIT 31.)
334
1 Q. BY MS. CLARK: YOU HAVE NOW PEOPLE'S 30 AND 31
2 IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR.
3 A. YES.
4 Q. ARE THOSE THE GLOVES THAT YOU FOUND
5 RESPECTIVELY AT THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THE
6 HOME OF MR. SIMPSON AT 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE IN BRENTWOOD?
7 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
8 Q. NOW, I'M SHOWING YOU PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAVE
9 COLLECTIVELY BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 5.
10 YOU DESCRIBED A FORD BRONCO IN WHICH YOU SAW
11 BLOOD ON THE DRIVER'S HANDLE.
12 A. YES.
13 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B AND -C, ARE THOSE THE
14 PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT FORD BRONCO, SIR?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. AND THE MAN POINTING TO A HANDLE IN
17 PHOTOGRAPH -A, DO YOU RECOGNIZE HIM?
18 A. YES, I DO.
19 Q. WHO IS THAT?
20 A. THAT'S A CRIMINALIST FOR THE LOS ANGELES POLICE
21 DEPARTMENT, DENNIS FUNG.
22 Q. DID YOU REQUEST THAT HE COME TO TEST THE BLOOD
23 ON THE HANDLE OF THAT DOOR?
24 A. I DID, YES.
25 Q. AFTER SEEING THE GLOVE THAT YOU BELIEVED TO BE
26 A MATE FOR THE ONE YOU SAW AT THE CRIME SCENE, WHAT DID YOU
27 DO NEXT?
28 A. WELL, AS I HAD STATED BEFORE, IT HAD BEGAN TO
335
1 LIGHTEN UP. IT WAS GETTING LIGHT TO WHERE YOU COULD SEE
2 REAL WELL.
3 AND AFTER COMING BACK TO THE FRONT OF THE
4 RESIDENCE, I OBSERVED BLOOD DROPS IN THE FRONT OF THE
5 DRIVEWAY THAT LED, APPARENTLY, FROM THE BRONCO TO THE FRONT
6 DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
7 I ALSO OBSERVED AT THAT POINT SOME BLOOD DROPS
8 INSIDE THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
9 I SECURED THE LOCATION, MOVED EVERYBODY OUT OF
10 THE HOUSE AND SECURED IT AND WROTE A SEARCH WARRANT FOR THE
11 PROPERTY AT THAT TIME.
12 Q. AGAIN, SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 5, SIR.
13 CAN YOU TELL ME WITH RESPECT TO PHOTOGRAPHS -C,
14 -D, -E, -F, -G AND -H -- FIRST OF ALL, LET ME BACK UP AND
15 ASK YOU:
16 DID YOU DIRECT THAT CERTAIN PHOTOGRAPHS BE
17 TAKEN AT THE PROPERTY OF 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE?
18 A. YES, I DID.
19 Q. AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I'M SHOWING YOU NOW IN
20 PEOPLE'S 5, WERE THOSE TAKEN AT YOUR DIRECTION AND YOUR
21 REQUEST?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO DEPICT IN PHOTOGRAPHS
24 -C THROUGH -H?
25 A. THE TRAIL OF BLOOD DROPS THAT LED FROM THE AREA
26 OF THE FORD BRONCO TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE AND
27 THE BLOOD DROPS INSIDE THE RESIDENCE.
28 Q. AND THOSE WERE THE BLOOD DROPS THAT YOU HAVE
336
1 JUST DESCRIBED AS SEEING THERE?
2 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
3 Q. IN PEOPLE'S 2, SIR, CAN YOU TELL ME IN
4 PHOTOGRAPHS -D, -E AND -F WHAT YOU WERE ATTEMPTING TO HAVE
5 DEPICTED IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS.
6 A. YES.
7 THAT SHOWS -- STARTING HERE AT PHOTOGRAPH -F,
8 THAT WOULD SHOW EAST FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE LEADING TO
9 THE RESIDENCE, AND WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO SHOW THE TRAIL OF
10 BLOOD DROPS THAT LEAD FROM THE STREET AREA, WHICH WOULD BE
11 IN HERE WHERE THE VEHICLE WOULD HAVE BEEN PARKED UP THE
12 DRIVEWAY INTO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
13 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPH -C, SIR, OFF TO THE RIGHT OF THE
14 PHOTOGRAPH AS YOU FACE IT, THERE APPEARS TO BE A WHITE
15 VEHICLE.
16 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?
17 A. YES, I DO.
18 THAT'S THE FORD BRONCO THAT WAS PARKED AT THE
19 CURB THERE.
20 Q. IS THAT THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU FOUND IT WHEN
21 YOU ARRIVED AT THE RESIDENCE THAT NIGHT OR EARLY MORNING
22 HOURS?
23 A. YES, IT IS.
24 Q. I BELIEVE YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WENT TO SECURE
25 A SEARCH WARRANT FOR THE LOCATION OF 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE.
26 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
27 Q. AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
28 A. AFTER SECURING THE SEARCH WARRANT, I RETURNED
337
1 TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION.
2 WHEN I RETURNED THERE, I ENTERED THE ROCKINGHAM
3 GATE, WHICH WOULD BE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE.
4 AS I'M WALKING THROUGH THE GATE, I OBSERVED A
5 MR. HOWARD WEITZMAN, A DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AND ANOTHER
6 ATTORNEY WHO IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS LEROY TATE STANDING BY
7 THE GATE.
8 Q. LEROY TAFT?
9 A. TAFT, I'M SORRY, STANDING BY THE GATE.
10 I RECOGNIZED MR. WEITZMAN FROM PRIOR CONTACTS.
11 HE TOLD ME HE WAS THERE REPRESENTING --
12 Q. EXCUSE ME, SIR, PLEASE.
13 A. SORRY.
14 MS. CLARK: THE JURY IS REQUESTED TO DISREGARD ANY
15 STATEMENTS BY MR. WEITZMAN.
16 Q. YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?
17 A. YES, I DID.
18 Q. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE CONVERSATION?
19 A. I ENTERED THE LOCATION.
20 I HAD PREVIOUSLY INSTRUCTED UNIFORMED OFFICERS
21 THAT THIS WAS A SECURE RESIDENCE; THAT IF MR. SIMPSON
22 ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION, TO KEEP HIM FROM COMING INTO THE
23 LOCATION.
24 SHORTLY AFTER GETTING THERE, I WAS INSIDE, I
25 LOOKED OUT THE OPEN FRONT DOOR AND OBSERVED MR. SIMPSON AT
26 THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE OUT ON THE FRONT LAWN.
27 I RESPONDED TO HIS LOCATION AND SPOKE WITH HIM.
28 Q. DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ON EITHER OF
338
1 HIS HANDS?
2 A. YES, I DID.
3 Q. WHAT DID YOU SEE?
4 A. HE HAD A BANDAGE ON THE MIDDLE FINGER OF HIS
5 LEFT HAND IN THE MAJOR KNUCKLE AREA OF HIS HAND.
6 Q. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
7 A. I SPOKE WITH MR. SIMPSON.
8 HE REQUESTED TO SPEAK WITH HIS ATTORNEY,
9 MR. WEITZMAN.
10 MS. CLARK: THE JURY IS ASKED TO DISREGARD THAT
11 STATEMENT.
12 Q. MR. SIMPSON MADE A REQUEST, SIR?
13 A. YES, HE DID.
14 Q. AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
15 A. I ALLOWED MR. SIMPSON TO SPEAK WITH HIS
16 ATTORNEY.
17 Q. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
18 A. I LEFT WITH HIM AND PROCEDED TO PARKER CENTER
19 DOWNTOWN.
20 Q. WHEN YOU WENT TO PARKER CENTER, WAS MR. SIMPSON
21 RESTRAINED IN ANY MANNER?
22 A. NO.
23 Q. HE WENT WITH YOU VOLUNTARILY?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. WHEN YOU GOT TO PARKER CENTER, DID YOU HAVE AN
26 INTERVIEW WITH HIM?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. WAS MR. WEITZMAN PRESENT AT PARKER CENTER?
339
1 A. YES.
2 Q. WAS HE PRESENT IN THE ROOM WITH YOU WHEN YOU
3 INTERVIEWED MR. SIMPSON?
4 A. NO.
5 Q. NOW, BEFORE SPEAKING TO MR. SIMPSON, DID YOU
6 ADVISE HIM OF HIS RIGHTS?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. DID YOU DO SO FROM A CARD OR FROM MEMORY?
9 A. I DID IT FROM MEMORY.
10 Q. CAN YOU DO IT FOR US NOW AS YOU DID IT FOR
11 MR. SIMPSON AT THAT TIME.
12 A. CERTAINLY.
13 "YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.
14 "IF YOU GIVE UP THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT,
15 ANYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A
16 COURT OF LAW.
17 "YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK TO AN ATTORNEY AND
18 TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY PRESENT DURING QUESTIONING.
19 "IF YOU SO DESIRE AND CANNOT AFFORD ONE, AN
20 ATTORNEY WILL BE APPOINTED FOR YOU WITHOUT CHARGE BEFORE
21 QUESTIONING."
22 Q. AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?
23 A. I ASKED HIM IF HE UNDERSTOOD THOSE RIGHTS.
24 AND HE STATED, "YES," HE DID.
25 I ASKED HIM IF HE WISHED TO GIVE UP HIS RIGHT
26 TO REMAIN SILENT AND TALK WITH US, WITH HIS ATTORNEY'S
27 KNOWLEDGE.
28 AND HE SAID, "YES."
340
1 Q. AND THEN YOU SPOKE TO HIM?
2 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
3 Q. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO RELATE TO US WHAT HE
4 TOLD YOU ABOUT THE EVENTS ON THE DATE OF JUNE 12, 1994.
5 A. OKAY.
6 HE TOLD US DURING THE INTERVIEW THAT HE HAD
7 BEEN DIVORCED FROM NICOLE BROWN FOR 2 YEARS; THAT ACTUALLY
8 THEY HAD BEEN APART LONGER THAN THAT.
9 HE SAID THAT THEY HAD BEEN ATTEMPTING TO GET
10 BACK TOGETHER IN THE PAST YEAR, BUT ABOUT 3 WEEKS PRIOR TO
11 THIS DATE THAT THEY HAD DECIDED THAT IT WASN'T WORKING AND
12 THEY WERE JUST GOING TO GIVE IT UP. IT JUST WASN'T GOING
13 TO WORK ANYMORE.
14 I THEN TOOK HIM TO THE EVENING OF JUNE 12 AND
15 ASKED HIM ABOUT THAT EVENING.
16 HE SAID THAT HE HAD GONE TO HIS DAUGHTER'S
17 RECITAL THAT EVENING. HE SAID THAT NICOLE AND THE
18 CHILDREN WERE THERE AS WELL AS A NUMBER OF NICOLE'S FAMILY
19 MEMBERS.
20 HE SAID HE SAT APART FROM THEM AT THE RECITAL
21 AND DID NOT TALK TO NICOLE THERE.
22 HE SAID AFTER THE RECITAL, HE SPOKE WITH
23 NICOLE'S MOTHER AND THAT SHE TOLD HIM THAT THEY WERE GOING
24 TO DINNER AND INVITED HIM TO GO, WHICH HE DECLINED.
25 HE SAID HE LEFT THE RECITAL APPROXIMATELY 6:30
26 TO 7 THAT EVENING AND WENT BACK HOME.
27 AND HE SAID HE WAS DRIVING HIS ROLLS ROYCE.
28 Q. TO THE RECITAL?
341
1 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
2 Q. SO HE DROVE HOME FROM THE RECITAL IN HIS ROLLS
3 ROYCE?
4 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
5 Q. WHAT HAPPENED WHEN HE GOT HOME?
6 A. HE SAID AFTER GETTING HOME, HE CHANGED CARS, HE
7 GOT INTO HIS FORD BRONCO, BECAUSE HIS TELEPHONE WAS IN THE
8 BRONCO, AND HE SAID HE WENT OUT DRIVING, ATTEMPTING TO FIND
9 HIS GIRLFRIEND.
10 HE SAID HE TRIED TO CALL HER AND DROVE BY THE
11 LOCATION AND HE COULDN'T FIND HER.
12 HE SAID HE RETURNED HOME, ARRIVING -- HE SAYS
13 HE PARKED THE BRONCO SOME TIME AROUND 8 OR 9 THAT EVENING,
14 HE SAID.
15 AND HE SAID THE BRONCO WAS HIS CAR; THAT HE HAD
16 PARKED IT AT THE LOCATION WHERE WE FOUND IT.
17 HE SAID THAT AFTER HE ARRIVED HOME, THE ONLY
18 PERSON THAT WAS THERE WAS "KATO" AND THAT HE HAD SPENT SOME
19 TIME WITH "KATO"; THAT HE HAD GONE OUT A LITTLE LATER AND
20 GOT SOME HAMBURGERS.
21 HE SAID THAT THEY HAD DRIVEN THE ROLLS ROYCE
22 WHEN THEY WENT OUT TO GET THE HAMBURGERS AND HE SAID --
23 THEN HE SAID HE RETURNED TO THE HOUSE AND STARTED PREPARING
24 TO LEAVE FOR A TRIP TO CHICAGO TO PLAY IN A GOLF TOURNAMENT
25 FOR HERTZ.
26 Q. SO HE INDICATED HE HAD GONE TO THE RECITAL IN
27 THE ROLLS ROYCE AND GOT HOME AROUND 7:00 O'CLOCK?
28 A. HE SAID HE LEFT THE RECITAL AROUND 6:30 TO 7,
342
1 YES, AND WENT DIRECTLY HOME.
2 Q. AND THAT HE SWITCHED INTO THE FORD
3 BRONCO --
4 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
5 Q. -- AND DROVE AROUND IN THAT FOR AWHILE?
6 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
7 Q. THEN LATER ON THAT EVENING, HE WENT OUT WITH
8 "KATO" IN THE ROLLS AGAIN TO GET THE BURGERS?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. DID HE INDICATE WHETHER ANYONE ELSE WAS
11 PERMITTED TO DRIVE THE FORD BRONCO?
12 A. YES.
13 HE SAID HE WAS THE PRIMARY DRIVER, BUT HE
14 OCCASIONALLY LET HIS HOUSEKEEPER USE IT FOR ERRANDS.
15 BUT HE SAID THAT HE HAD PARKED IT WHERE WE
16 FOUND IT HIMSELF THAT EVENING ON THE STREET ON THE
17 ROCKINGHAM SIDE.
18 Q. HIS HOUSEKEEPER, DID HE NAME HER AS GIGI?
19 A. YES.
20 Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU HOW MANY TIMES IT WAS
21 THAT HE HAD GONE OUT OF THE HOUSE THAT NIGHT, THAT DAY?
22 A. YES.
23 I BELIEVE HE HAD STATED THAT HE HAD GONE OUT
24 TWICE, I BELIEVE IT WAS, ONCE TO BUY FLOWERS FOR HIS
25 DAUGHTER FOR THE RECITAL AND THEN TO THE RECITAL WAS THE
26 ONLY TWO TIMES HE HAD LEFT THE HOUSE THAT SUNDAY.
27 Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU HOW MANY TIMES HE DROVE
28 THE FORD BRONCO ON THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH?
343
1 A. YES; TWICE.
2 Q. DID HE TELL YOU WHEN THE LAST TIME WAS HE DROVE
3 IT THAT DAY?
4 A. YES.
5 AFTER ARRIVING HOME FROM THE RECITAL, HE SAID
6 HE HAD GONE OUT IN THE FORD BRONCO TO LOOK FOR HIS
7 GIRLFRIEND; THAT HE HAD DRIVEN AROUND AND TRIED TO CALL HER
8 AND HAD RETURNED TO THE RESIDENCE AT SOME TIME AROUND
9 8:00 O'CLOCK OR 9:00 O'CLOCK AND PARKED IT ON THE STREET.
10 HE SAID HE FIRST DROVE INTO THE DRIVEWAY, TOOK
11 SOME STUFF OUT OF IT AND THEN TOOK THAT INTO THE HOUSE AND
12 THEN CAME BACK AND MOVED IT BACK ONTO THE STREET WHERE IT
13 WAS PARKED.
14 Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU WHAT HE DID AFTER
15 GETTING THE BURGERS WITH "KATO"?
16 A. I BELIEVE HE SAID HE WAS IN THE JACUZZI FOR
17 AWHILE AND THEN STARTED PREPARING TO LEAVE FOR HIS 11:45
18 FLIGHT TO CHICAGO.
19 Q. DID HE INDICATE IT WAS HE OR KATO THAT DID THE
20 JACUZZI, IF YOU RECALL?
21 A. I DON'T REALLY RECALL AT THIS TIME.
22 Q. DID YOU ASK HIM ABOUT HOW HE GOT THE INJURY TO
23 HIS HAND?
24 A. YES.
25 WHEN I TALKED TO HIM ABOUT THE INJURY -- I HAD
26 PREVIOUSLY NOTICED THE BANDAGE ON HIS LEFT HAND AND I ASKED
27 HIM HOW HE HAD INJURED HIS HAND.
28 AND HE SAID THAT HE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW.
344
1 HE SAYS HE MUST HAVE INJURED IT SOMETIME THAT
2 EVENING WHILE HE WAS PREPARING TO LEAVE ON THE TRIP.
3 HIS EXPLANATION WAS HE WAS VERY BUSY AND HE WAS
4 RUSHING AROUND AND THAT HE MUST HAVE INJURED IT, BUT HE
5 DIDN'T REALLY KNOW HOW HE HAD DONE THAT.
6 THEN I TALKED TO HIM ABOUT -- OR WE TALKED TO
7 HIM ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF HIS BLOOD BEING AT 875 SOUTH
8 BUNDY.
9 WE ASKED HIM WHEN HE HAD BEEN THERE LAST, AND
10 HE SAID HE HAD LAST BEEN AT HER RESIDENCE, HE BELIEVED,
11 ABOUT A WEEK PRIOR AND HAD BEEN IN HER HOUSE MAYBE 5 TO 7
12 DAYS PRIOR.
13 AND WE ASKED HIM, "WERE YOU INJURED OR ANYTHING
14 WHILE YOU WERE OVER THERE? COULD YOU HAVE BEEN DROPPING
15 ANY BLOOD?"
16 AND HE SAID, "NO," HE WASN'T INJURED AND HE
17 COULDN'T HAVE BEEN DROPPING ANY BLOOD.
18 Q. DID HE INDICATE WHEN HE HAD GOTTEN THAT CUT?
19 A. YES; THE EVENING OF JUNE THE 12TH, SOMETIME
20 BETWEEN THE RECITAL AND THE TIME HE LEFT THE HOME.
21 Q. BUT DID HE TELL YOU HOW THAT HAPPENED?
22 A. NO.
23 HE SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW. HE SAID HE COULDN'T
24 REMEMBER HOW HE INJURED HIMSELF.
25 Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU THAT HE HAD DONE
26 ANYTHING TO MAKE THE BLEEDING STOP BEFORE HE LEFT FOR
27 CHICAGO WHILE HE WAS STILL IN HIS HOUSE?
28 A. WELL, YEAH.
345
1 HE INDICATED TO US WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE
2 BLOOD DROPS THAT THE BLOOD DROPS WERE HIS AND THAT HE HAD
3 NOTICED DURING THE EVENING THAT HE WAS BLEEDING AND THAT HE
4 HAD GRABBED SOMETHING AND WRAPPED IT ON HIS HAND AND THE
5 BLEEDING HAD STOPPED.
6 AND THEN I ASKED HIM, "WELL, DID YOU INJURE
7 YOURSELF ANY OTHER TIME OR WERE YOU HURT BACK IN CHICAGO?"
8 AND HE SAYS, "WELL, YEAH, I BROKE A GLASS BACK
9 THERE. I WAS UPSET WHEN I GOT A CALL FROM YOU AND I MUST
10 HAVE REINJURED MYSELF."
11 AND HE SAID HE PUT BAND-AIDS ON HIS CUT BACK IN
12 CHICAGO.
13 Q. SO HE PUT SOMETHING ON IT BOTH HERE AND IN
14 CHICAGO?
15 A. YES. BUT HE COULDN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY.
16 HE SAYS, "I MUST HAVE GRABBED A TOWEL OR NAPKIN
17 OR SOMETHING AND PUT IT ON MY HAND AND THE BLEEDING STOPPED
18 WHILE I WAS HERE."
19 Q. WERE YOU PRESENT DURING THE SERVICE OF THE
20 SEARCH WARRANT, SIR?
21 A. DURING A PORTION OF IT. NOT THE ENTIRE TIME.
22 Q. WERE YOU MADE AWARE OR DID YOU REVIEW THE
23 EVIDENCE THAT WAS SEIZED PURSUANT TO THAT SEARCH WARRANT?
24 A. YES, I DID.
25 Q. DID THE SEARCH WARRANT SPECIFICALLY DIRECT YOU
26 TO LOOK FOR ITEMS CONTAINING BLOOD?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. ANY MATERIAL OR SUBSTANCE OF ANY KIND THAT
346
1 MIGHT CONTAIN BLOOD?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE ANY NAPKINS OR TOWELS THAT
4 CONTAINED FRESH BLOOD STAINS?
5 A. NO.
6 Q. DID YOU INQUIRE OF MR. SIMPSON AS TO WHAT
7 CLOTHES HE WORE ON SUNDAY, JUNE THE 12TH?
8 A. YES, I DID.
9 Q. AND WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?
10 A. HE SAID THAT DURING THE DAY HE WORE CLOTHES
11 THAT WERE LIKE HE WEARS ON THE GOLF COURSE, A WHITE SHIRT,
12 DARK SLACKS.
13 AND I ALSO ASKED HIM WHAT HE HAD WORN TO THE
14 RECITAL THAT EVENING, AND HE SAID HE HAD WORN, HE BELIEVED,
15 A T-SHIRT, PAIR OF DARK SLACKS AND SOME REEBOK TENNIS
16 SHOES.
17 Q. AT THE TIME THAT YOU INTERVIEWED HIM, SIR, WHAT
18 WAS HE WEARING?
19 A. HE HAD ON A WHITE LIKE GOLF SHIRT, A PAIR OF
20 BLACK SLACKS, DARK COLORED SLACKS, AND A PAIR OF DARK
21 COLORED SLIP-ON SANDAL TYPE SHOES.
22 Q. AND SO WHEN YOU ASKED HIM IF THE BLOOD YOU
23 FOUND DRIPPED AROUND THE HOUSE WAS HIS, WHAT WAS HIS REPLY?
24 A. YES, IT WAS.
25 Q. AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEW, SIR, DID
26 YOU DO SOMETHING WITH RESPECT TO MEMORIALIZING THE
27 CONDITION OF HIS FINGER?
28 A. YES, I DID.
347
1 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO?
2 A. I ASKED HIM IF WE COULD TAKE HIM AND PHOTOGRAPH
3 THE FINGER.
4 AND HE STATED, "YES."
5 SO I WALKED HIM DIRECTLY TO THE PHOTOGRAPHY LAB
6 AND HAD THAT DONE.
7 Q. DID YOU ALSO ATTEMPT TO RETRIEVE A BLOOD SAMPLE
8 FROM HIM?
9 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
10 Q. WAS THAT DONE AT THE SAME TIME?
11 A. YES.
12 A VOLUNTARY BLOOD SAMPLE WAS TAKEN AT THE JAIL
13 DIVISION, DISPENSARY SECTION.
14 MS. CLARK: MADAME FOREMAN, I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THE
15 NEXT EXHIBIT, WHICH IS A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS -A THROUGH
16 -C, PEOPLE'S 32.
17 THE FOREPERSON: SO ORDERED.
18 (MARKED FOR I.D.: = EXHIBIT 32.)
19 Q. BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU NOW PEOPLE'S 32,
20 SIR.
21 CAN YOU TELL ME IN PHOTOGRAPH -A IF YOU KNOW
22 WHAT IS THAT A PICTURE OF?
23 A. YES.
24 THAT'S A PICTURE OF THE LEFT HAND, MIDDLE
25 FINGER OF MR. SIMPSON, THE INJURY ON HIS HAND.
26 Q. IS THAT A PICTURE TAKEN AT YOUR DIRECTION, SIR?
27 A. THAT IS CORRECT; YES.
28 Q. WHAT ABOUT -B AND -C?
348
1 A. THOSE ARE THE TWO GLOVES; ONE FOUND AT THE
2 CRIME SCENE, ONE FOUND AT THE HOME OF MR. SIMPSON.
3 Q. I'M SHOWING YOU PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAVE BEEN
4 MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 21. THESE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS -A THROUGH
5 -D.
6 CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS
7 DEPICTED IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS.
8 A. YES, I RECOGNIZE THAT.
9 Q. WHAT IS IT?
10 A. THOSE ARE PICTURES THAT WERE TAKEN OF A KNIFE
11 THAT I HAVE IN MY POSSESSION THAT I HAD PURCHASED FROM ROSS
12 CUTLERY IN LOS ANGELES.
13 Q. AT THE TIME THAT YOU PURCHASED THAT KNIFE, SIR,
14 DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE PERSONS THAT OWNED THE
15 STORE AND A SALESPERSON THERE?
16 A. I DID NOT PERSONALLY, NO.
17 Q. WAS IT SOMEONE WHO DID THAT AT YOUR DIRECTION?
18 A. I DISPATCHED DETECTIVES TO THAT LOCATION, YES.
19 Q. IS THAT KNIFE DEPICTED IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS,
20 THE ONE THAT YOU DIRECTED BE PURCHASED?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
22 Q. AND YOU HAD THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN.
23 IS THAT RIGHT?
24 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
25 Q. NOW, THE BLOOD SAMPLE THAT WAS REMOVED FROM
26 MR. SIMPSON, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT?
27 A. I PERSONALLY HAND-CARRIED THAT TO THE
28 CRIMINALIST WHO WAS WORKING ON THE CASE, DENNIS FUNG, AND
349
1 GAVE IT TO HIM TO BE BOOKED WITH THE OTHER EVIDENCE.
2 Q. AND THE BLOOD THAT WAS EXTRACTED FROM THE
3 VICTIMS DURING THE AUTOPSY PERFORMED BY DR. GOLDEN, DID YOU
4 DO SOMETHING WITH RESPECT TO THOSE BLOOD SAMPLES?
5 A. YES, I DID.
6 I PICKED THOSE UP AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE AND
7 HAND-DELIVERED THOSE TO THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION LAB
8 AND TURNED THEM OVER TO COLIN YAMAUCHI, I BELIEVE IS THE
9 WAY IT IS PRONOUNCED, WHO IS THE ANALYST WHO IS WORKING ON
10 THE CASE.
11 Q. SIR, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM "D.R.
12 NUMBER"?
13 A. YES, I AM.
14 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT IS.
15 A. SURE.
16 THAT'S A NUMBER THAT'S ASSIGNED TO ANY CRIME
17 REPORT THAT IS GENERATED IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES AND
18 GIVES US A QUICK REFERENCE THAT ALWAYS IDENTIFIES THAT
19 SPECIFIC REPORT THAT IS DONE BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
20 Q. WHEN EVIDENCE IS COLLECTED AND BOOKED INTO
21 PROPERTY, IS IT ASSIGNED A NUMBER?
22 A. IT IT'S BOOKED UNDER THE D.R. NUMBER THAT IS
23 BOUGHT BY THE OFFICERS THAT MAKE THE ACTUAL REPORT.
24 Q. SO ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS COLLECTED IN
25 THIS CASE, WAS IT BOOKED UNDER THE SAME D.R. NUMBER?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS, SIR?
28 A. ACTUALLY, THERE ARE TWO NUMBERS.
350
1 I NOTICED THE MAIN NUMBER, YES.
2 I CAN TELL YOU BOTH NUMBERS.
3 Q. WHAT IS THE MAIN NUMBER?
4 A. 94-0817431 IS THE MAIN NUMBER.
5 THE CORRESPONDING NUMBER IS 94-0817432.
6 Q. WHAT IS THE 32 NUMBER FOR?
7 A. EACH NUMBER, THE ORIGINAL NUMBER -- THE 31
8 NUMBER IS THE NUMBER ASSIGNED TO NICOLE BROWN, VICTIM; THE
9 32 NUMBER IS THE NUMBER ASSIGNED TO RONALD GOLDMAN, VICTIM.
10 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE EVIDENCE COLLECTED -- FIRST
11 OF ALL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, SIR:
12 AT THE TIME YOU WERE PRESENT AT THE ORIGINAL
13 CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY, DID YOU OBSERVE EVIDENCE
14 BEING COLLECTED AND GATHERED AT THAT LOCATION?
15 A. YES; THAT'S CORRECT.
16 Q. WHEN THAT EVIDENCE WAS RECOVERED, WAS IT BOOKED
17 UNDER A D.R. NUMBER?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHICH ONE?
20 A. IT SHOULD BE BOOKED UNDER THE MASTER, 31, WHICH
21 IS NICOLE BROWN'S D.R. NUMBER OR CRIME REPORT NUMBER.
22 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS RECOVERED
23 FROM MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE, WHAT WAS THAT EVIDENCE BOOKED
24 UNDER? WHAT D.R. NUMBER?
25 A. IT SHOULD BE BOOKED UNDER THE SAME MASTER D.R.
26 WE ONLY USE ONE MASTER FOR EACH OCCURRENCE,
27 WHETHER THERE ARE FIVE OR SIX LOCATIONS OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
28 Q. SO THE 31 NUMBER AGAIN?
351
1 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
2 Q. WHEN YOU TURNED OVER THE BLOOD SAMPLE TAKEN
3 FROM THE SUSPECT, MR. SIMPSON, AS WELL AS THE BLOOD
4 EXTRACTED FROM THE VICTIMS, DID YOU DO SO -- DID YOU THEN
5 PACKAGE IT UNDER THE SAME D.R. NUMBER?
6 A. THE PACKAGING WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY THE
7 CRIMINALIST OR THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ANALYZING THE EVIDENCE.
8 Q. AND THEN WOULD IT BE STANDARD OPERATING
9 PROCEDURE TO PUT THE D.R. NUMBER ON THAT PACKAGE?
10 A. YES.
11 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE BLOOD TAKEN FROM THE
12 VICTIMS BY DR. GOLDEN DURING THE AUTOPSY, WOULD THAT ALSO
13 HAVE THE SAME D.R. NUMBER ON IT?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. DID THE BLOOD SAMPLE TAKEN FROM THE SUSPECT
16 THAT YOU DELIVERED TO DENNIS FUNG, DID IT BEAR THE D.R.
17 NUMBER FOR THIS CASE?
18 WAS THAT DONE?
19 A. I WOULD HAVE TO MAKE AN ASSUMPTION, YES,
20 BECAUSE I DELIVERED IT DIRECTLY TO THE CRIMINALIST AT THE
21 CRIME SCENE BOOKING THE OTHER EVIDENCE AND TOLD HIM THAT
22 THIS WAS PART OF THE EVIDENCE THAT WENT.
23 SO I WOULD HAVE TO SAY, "YES."
24 Q. SO IT WAS HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO PACKAGE IT AND
25 AFFIX THE D.R. NUMBER TO IT?
26 A. EXACTLY.
27 HE WAS IN CHARGE OF THE EVIDENCE.
28 Q. AND WITH RESPECT TO THE BLOOD EXTRACTED FROM
352
1 THE VICTIMS DURING AUTOPSY, DID YOU PACKAGE THAT AND TURN
2 IT OVER TO MR. YAMAUCHI?
3 A. I DIDN'T PACKAGE IT.
4 I TURNED IT OVER TO HIM WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS
5 IT WAS TO BE ANALYZED AND TURNED OVER TO MR. FUNG, WHO IS
6 THE CRIMINALIST WHO WAS DOING ALL OF THE PACKAGING AND
7 BOOKING OF THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.
8 Q. YOU ATTENDED THE AUTOPSY.
9 IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?
10 A. YES, THE AUTOPSY ON BOTH VICTIMS.
11 Q. WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN BLOOD WAS EXTRACTED FROM
12 THEM?
13 A. YES, I WAS.
14 Q. SO DID YOU PERSONALLY OBSERVED THE BLOOD
15 EXTRACTED FROM NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON DURING THE AUTOPSY?
16 A. YES, I DID.
17 Q. THAT BLOOD WAS THEN HANDED TO YOU?
18 A. NO.
19 THE BLOOD WAS TAKEN BY THE DOCTOR, DR. GOLDEN,
20 AND THE DOCTOR MAINTAINS CONTROL OF THAT BLOOD AND IT GOES
21 TO THE LABORATORY OR TO THEIR EVIDENCE SECTION.
22 I PERSONALLY PICKED UP THE BLOOD FROM THEIR
23 EVIDENCE SECTION.
24 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE THE MANNER IN WHICH DR. GOLDEN
25 PACKAGED IT BEFORE SENDING IT TO THE LAB?
26 A. YES, I DID.
27 Q. AND WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT IT WAS THE
28 SAME PACKAGE THAT YOU PICKED UP FROM THE LAB?
353
1 A. YES.
2 Q. WHEN DR. GOLDEN TOOK IT TO THE LAB INITIALLY,
3 DID YOU FOLLOW HIM TO THE LAB OR DID YOU GO TO THE LAB
4 LATER?
5 A. NO, I WENT TO THE LAB LATER.
6 I DIDN'T FOLLOW THE DOCTOR TO THE LAB.
7 Q. DID YOU ALSO OBSERVE THE REMOVAL OF THE BLOOD
8 FROM MR. RONALD GOLDMAN?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. THAT WAS DONE BY DR. GOLDEN AS WELL AS THE
11 AUTOPSY.
12 IS THAT CORRECT?
13 A. YES; THAT'S CORRECT.
14 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE THE MANNER IN WHICH HE PACKAGED
15 THAT BLOOD AS WELL?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. WAS THAT BLOOD ALSO TAKEN BY HIM TO THE LAB?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. DID YOU THEN RESPOND TO THE LAB AND RETRIEVE
20 THAT SAME ITEM OF BLOOD PACKAGED IN THE MANNER YOU SAW
21 DR. GOLDEN PACKAGE IT DURING THE AUTOPSY?
22 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
23 Q. THEN YOU TURNED BOTH OF THOSE ITEMS OVER TO
24 MR. YAMAUCHI?
25 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
26 Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE MANNER IN WHICH THOSE
27 ITEMS WERE PACKAGED, SIR.
28 A. CERTAINLY.
354
1 IT WAS A SMALL GLASS VIAL WITH A PURPLE TOP AND
2 IT HAD A CORONER'S EVIDENCE TAG ON IT IN WHICH WAS AFFIXED
3 THE CORONER'S CASE NUMBER FOR EACH VICTIM.
4 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
5 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
6 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
7 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
8 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
9
10 (SHORT PAUSE.)
11
12 Q. BY MS. CLARK: SIR, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU
13 MADE CONTACT WITH A PERSON THAT IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS
14 ARNELL.
15 IS THAT CORRECT?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. ARNELL SIMPSON?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. YOU SAY SHE ALLOWED YOU INTO THE HOUSE?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. WAS THAT BY HER OWN CONSENT, WAS THAT
22 VOLUNTARY?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. YOU INDICATED AT ONE POINT DURING YOUR
25 TESTIMONY, SIR, THAT YOU LOOKED AROUND THE GROUNDS FOR
26 OTHER VICTIMS.
27 A. ABSOLUTELY, YES.
28 Q. WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER YOU SPOKE TO ARNELL
355
1 SIMPSON?
2 A. WELL, THAT WAS DURING THE PROCESS OF THE WHOLE
3 TIME.
4 WE HADN'T EVEN SEEN THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE
5 AT THAT POINT, SO WE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER SOMEONE HAD BEEN
6 MURDERED THERE BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD WE SAW OR WHAT HAVE
7 YOU.
8 SO WE WERE TRYING TO ENSURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS
9 OKAY AT THAT LOCATION.
10 Q. SO DID THAT -- I'M NOT CLEAR ON THE TIMING OF
11 THIS.
12 DID YOU LOOK AROUND THE GROUNDS BEFORE YOU
13 TALKED TO HER AND AFTER YOU TALKED TO HER?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. OKAY.
16 DID SHE EVER OBJECT TO YOUR PRESENCE OR YOUR
17 SEARCHING AROUND THE GROUNDS?
18 A. NEVER.
19 Q. SHE WAS PRESENT WHEN YOU DID SO?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. SHE INVITED YOU INTO THE HOUSE?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT
24 MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE?
25 A. I WOULD SAY SHORTLY AFTER 5:00 O'CLOCK.
26 I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TIME, BUT SHORTLY AFTER
27 5 IN THE MORNING.
28 Q. AT WHAT POINT, IF YOU RECALL, DID YOU SEE THE
356
1 GLOVE?
2 A. WITHIN A VERY SHORT TIME OF GOING OVER THE WALL
3 TO GAIN ENTRANCE TO THE HOME.
4 Q. WAS IT BEFORE OR AFTER YOU SPOKE TO ARNELL
5 SIMPSON?
6 A. WELL, WHAT YOU ARE ASKING ME IS -- THERE WERE
7 FOUR DETECTIVES THERE.
8 A COUPLE OF US WERE ATTEMPTING TO FIND PEOPLE
9 IN THE HOME, AND TWO OF THE OTHER DETECTIVES WERE LOOKING
10 AROUND THE HOME TO ENSURE THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG AND
11 THAT THERE WAS NO FORCED ENTRY ANYWHERE OR NOBODY LYING
12 DOWN IN THE DRIVEWAYS OR ANYBODY HURT OR ANYTHING.
13 AFTER SPEAKING WITH ARNELL SIMPSON, I WAS
14 DIRECTED BACK TO THIS LOCATION BY A WEST L.A. DETECTIVE WHO
15 HAD OBSERVED THIS GLOVE AT THE SIDE OF THE HOME.
16 Q. SO WHILE YOU WERE SPEAKING TO MISS SIMPSON,
17 ANOTHER DETECTIVE WAS LOOKING FOR VICTIMS?
18 A. THIS WAS ALL IN PROGRESS AT THE SAME TIME.
19 Q. THEN AFTER YOU COMPLETED YOUR DISCUSSION WITH
20 HER IS WHEN YOU WERE NOTIFIED OF THE GLOVE?
21 A. YES; EXACTLY.
22 Q. WAS IT IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT?
23 A. YES, WITHIN A MINUTE OR TWO.
24 Q. AT THAT POINT, DID YOU MAKE SOME DETERMINATION
25 ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE LOCATION OF 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE?
26 A. YES.
27 AFTER I WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THE GLOVE AND
28 CAME BACK AROUND, I SAW SOME BLOOD IN THE DRIVEWAY. AND AT
357
1 THAT POINT IS WHEN I MADE A DETERMINATION THAT WE HAD A
2 POSSIBLE CRIME SCENE.
3 I SECURED THE RESIDENCE AND LEFT THAT LOCATION
4 TO EXECUTE A SEARCH WARRANT FOR IT.
5 Q. AND NO FURTHER SEARCH WAS CONDUCTED --
6 A. NO.
7 Q. -- UNTIL THE SEARCH WARRANT WAS SIGNED?
8 A. UNTIL IT WAS SIGNED AND RETURNED BACK TO THE
9 LOCATION.
10 Q. SO BY THE TIME YOU SAW THE BLOOD, WAS THE SKY,
11 THE STREET STARTING TO GET A LITTLE LIGHTER?
12 A. IT HAD BEGUN LIGHTENING UP.
13 IT WAS AFTER 5:00 O'CLOCK WHEN WE GOT THERE.
14 WE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME BEFORE WE EVER GOT ONTO THE
15 GROUNDS ATTEMPTING TO AROUSE SOMEONE IN THE HOME BY THE
16 INTERCOM AND BY TELEPHONE.
17 SO WE WERE THERE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE WE
18 EVER MADE ENTRANCE ONTO THE GROUNDS, AND IT WAS BEGINNING
19 TO LIGHTEN UP AT THAT TIME.
20 YEAH, IT WAS LIGHT ENOUGH TO SEE, SURE.
21 Q. DID THE GLOVE THAT YOU SAW APPEAR TO BE BLOODY?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT SIZE THESE
24 GLOVES WERE?
25 A. NO; NO.
26 THEY WERE MEN'S GLOVES. THEY LOOKED LIKE
27 GLOVES THAT MAYBE WOULD FIT MY HANDS, AND I HAVE LARGE
28 HANDS.
358
1 THEY WERE MEN'S GLOVES. THAT'S ALL I CAN TELL.
2 Q. CAN YOU HOLD YOUR HAND UP, SIR.
3 A. SURE.
4 Q. CAN YOU ESTIMATE FOR US THE SPAN FROM THE TIP
5 OF YOUR SECOND FINGER TO THE EDGE OF YOUR PALM.
6 WE HAVE A RULER.
7 A. WE HAVE A RULER.
8 IT LOOKS LIKE TO THE BACK OF MY PALM IS 8
9 INCHES FROM THE TIP OF MY FINGER TO THE BACK OF MY PALM.
10 Q. THANK YOU, SIR.
11 WHEN YOU WERE AT THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH
12 BUNDY, HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO AVOID STEPPING IN THE BLOOD
13 AND MAKING FOOTPRINTS WHEN YOU WERE EXAMINING THE CRIME
14 SCENE?
15 A. I STAYED BACK FROM THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL BLOOD
16 AREA.
17 THERE WAS A WALKWAY, OR THERE WAS AN AREA WHERE
18 YOU COULD GET INTO THE FOLIAGE TO GET UP ADJACENT TO THE
19 TWO VICTIMS THAT WERE LYING IN THE WALKWAY AND OFF THE
20 WALKWAY.
21 AND I WENT UP IN THE FOLIAGE AREA AND HAD A
22 VERY GOOD FLASHLIGHT AND WAS LOOKING AT EVERYTHING AT THE
23 SCENE.
24 I NEVER PHYSICALLY WALKED INTO THE SCENE UNTIL
25 AFTER THE BODIES WERE REMOVED. BUT I WAS VERY, VERY CLOSE
26 ADJACENT TO THE SCENE.
27 Q. IN AN EFFORT TO AVOID THE CONTAMINATION OF THE
28 CRIME SCENE, ARE THE NUMBER OF PERSONS PERMITTED INSIDE THE
359
1 TAPE OR CLOSE TO THE BODIES OR THE EVIDENCE VERY LIMITED?
2 A. EXTREMELY LIMITED, YES.
3 Q. AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, PRIOR OR BEFORE
4 THE CRIMINALIST ARRIVED TO COLLECT THE EVIDENCE, CAN YOU
5 TELL ME WHO, IF ANYONE, WAS PERMITTED NEAR THE BODIES OR
6 THE EVIDENCE OR THE BLOOD OR THE FOOTPRINTS AT THE CRIME
7 SCENE?
8 A. AT THE TIME I WAS THERE, THERE WAS ONLY THREE
9 PEOPLE THAT EVEN APPROACHED CLOSE.
10 THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MYSELF, MY PARTNER,
11 DETECTIVE LANGE, AND THE SUPERVISING DETECTIVE FROM WEST
12 L.A. DETECTIVES, WHO WAS RON PHILLIPS.
13 NO ONE ELSE THAT I SAW WAS IN THAT CRIME SCENE.
14 Q. NOW, THE OTHER TWO PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE
15 REFERRING TO, THE OTHER TWO DETECTIVES, YOUR PARTNER AND
16 DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS, DID THEY WALK AROUND -- DID THEY
17 WALK INTO THE BLOODY AREA AND NEAR WHERE THE FOOTPRINTS AND
18 BLOOD DROPS WERE?
19 A. NO.
20 Q. DID THEY STAY BACK THE WAY YOU DID?
21 A. ABSOLUTELY.
22 Q. AT WHAT TIME ON JUNE 13 DID MR. SIMPSON ARRIVE
23 HOME?
24 A. IT WAS APPROXIMATELY NOON, OR JUST VERY, VERY
25 SHORTLY THEREAFTER.
26 Q. NOW, THE CUT ON MR. SIMPSON'S FINGER, IT WAS ON
27 THE LEFT FINGER.
28 IS THAT CORRECT?
360
1 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
2 Q. AND THE GLOVE FOUND AT THE CRIME SCENE,
3 875 SOUTH BUNDY, WAS WHAT HAND?
4 A. THE LEFT HAND.
5 Q. DID YOU EXAMINE THAT LEFT GLOVE TO DETERMINE
6 WHETHER IT WAS CUT ON THE FINGER AS WELL?
7 A. NO.
8 I WOULDN'T DO ANY EXAMINATION OF IT. THAT
9 WOULD BE DONE BY THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION PEOPLE.
10 Q. DID YOU SEARCH FOR BLOOD DROPS ALONG THE SOUTH
11 SIDE OF THE GARAGE, THE AREA WHERE THE BLOOD WAS FOUND?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. AND DID YOU FIND ANY?
14 A. NO.
15 Q. WAS A TRAIL -- WAS THE TRAIL OF BLOOD DROPS
16 THAT YOU FOUND AT THE ROCKINGHAM AVENUE RESIDENCE
17 CONTINUOUS FROM THE BRONCO TO THE FRONT DOOR?
18 A. YEAH.
19 THERE WERE SEVERAL BLOOD DROPS THAT STARTED
20 AROUND THE SIDEWALK AREA AT THE BACK END OF THE VEHICLE
21 AND -- I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY HOW MANY.
22 THERE WAS A NUMBER GOING UP THE DRIVEWAY AND
23 THEN, AS I RECALL, THERE WERE THREE INSIDE THE FRONT DOOR.
24 Q. WERE THEY WIDELY SPACED OR DO YOU RECALL?
25 A. THEY WERE NOT CLOSE TOGETHER. THEY WERE PRETTY
26 WIDELY SPACED.
27 Q. DID YOU SEARCH THE LUGGAGE MR. SIMPSON BROUGHT
28 BACK WITH HIM FROM CHICAGO?
361
1 A. YES.
2 Q. DID YOU SEE ALL OF IT, EVERYTHING THAT HE
3 BROUGHT BACK?
4 A. EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD IN HIS POSSESSION WHEN I
5 FIRST SAW HIM, YES.
6 Q. HOW MANY BAGS DID HE HAVE IN HIS POSSESSION
7 WHEN YOU SAW HIM WHEN HE RETURNED FROM CHICAGO?
8 A. ONE TRAVEL BAG.
9 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "TRAVEL BAG," IS THAT A GARMENT
10 BAG OR DUFFEL BAG?
11 A. LIKE A GUCCI DUFFEL BAG, LEATHER DUFFEL BAG
12 TYPE THING.
13 Q. WHEN YOU SEARCHED IT, DID YOU DO SO WITH HIS
14 PERMISSION?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. YOU ASKED HIS PERMISSION TO SEARCH IT?
17 A. YES.
18 Q. DO YOU HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE, SIR, OF HOW
19 MANY PIECES OF LUGGAGE MR. SIMPSON LEFT CHICAGO WITH?
20 A. PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE?
21 Q. RIGHT.
22 A. NO.
23 Q. AFTER YOU MADE CONTACT WITH MISS ARNELL SIMPSON
24 AND SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON ON THE PHONE, WHAT DID SHE DO,
25 MISS ARNELL SIMPSON?
26 A. SHE IMMEDIATELY CALLED ALAN COWLINGS TO RESPOND
27 TO THE LOCATION.
28 Q. DID SHE STAY IN THE GUEST HOUSE?
362
1 A. NO. SHE STAYED IN THE MAIN HOUSE.
2 Q. SHE STAYED IN THE LOWER PORTION?
3 A. YEAH, IN THE MAIN HOME THERE.
4 Q. WAS HER HOUSE SEARCHED, HER GUEST HOUSE
5 SEARCHED?
6 A. THE ENTIRE AREA WAS SEARCHED AFTER THE SEARCH
7 WARRANT WAS BROUGHT TO THE LOCATION.
8 Q. SO, YES, IT WAS?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. COULD YOU DESCRIBE THE CUTS ON MR. SIMPSON'S
11 FINGER.
12 A. YES.
13 AS I RECALL, THERE WAS ONE CUT THAT RAN
14 HORIZONTAL ON THE LARGER KNUCKLE OF THE FINGER. THE ACTUAL
15 KNUCKLE ITSELF APPEARED TO BE SWOLLEN FROM THE INJURY.
16 AND THEN BELOW THAT, THERE WAS A SMALLER CUT,
17 WHAT APPEARED TO BE A SMALLER INCISION-TYPE CUT, THAT RAN
18 ACROSS THE FINGER AND DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
19 IT WASN'T AS LARGE AS THE ONE UP ON THE
20 KNUCKLE.
21 Q. THE ONE ON THE KNUCKLE, THEN, WAS THE LARGER
22 ONE?
23 A. YES.
24 IT WAS DEEP ENOUGH THAT THE KNUCKLE WAS
25 SWOLLEN, APPEARED TO BE SWOLLEN FROM THE INJURY.
26 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE ANY NICKS TO THE GLOVES, ANY
27 NICKS OR TEARS TO THE GLOVES AT ALL?
28 A. NO. I NEVER REALLY GOT CLOSE ENOUGH TO THEM.
363
1 I SAW THE ONE AT THE SCENE AND SAW THE ONE AT
2 THE HOUSE. I MADE SURE THEY WERE SECURED. THEY APPEARED
3 TO BE THE SAME GLOVE, OPPOSITE HAND, TO ME.
4 AND I LEFT THEM AS THEY LAY FOR THE CRIMINALIST
5 TO PICK UP AND ANALYZATION TO BE DONE BY THE SCIENTIFIC
6 INVESTIGATION DIVISION.
7 Q. SO THAT WAS REALLY NOT YOUR --
8 A. THAT'S NOT PART OF MY FUNCTION TO ACTUALLY
9 ANALYZE THE EVIDENCE.
10 Q. WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON, DID HE MENTION
11 CALLING MR. KAELIN TO TURN ON THE BURGLAR ALARM AT THE
12 HOUSE?
13 A. I DON'T RECALL.
14 Q. YOU DON'T RECALL IF HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT?
15 A. NO, I DON'T RECALL IF HE TOLD ME THAT OR NOT.
16 Q. DO YOU RECALL IF HE TOLD YOU HOW KAELIN WAS
17 ABLE TO ENTER THE HOUSE TO TURN ON THE BURGLAR ALARM?
18 A. I DON'T THINK I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH HIM ABOUT
19 THAT.
20 I DON'T RECALL THAT AT ALL.
21 THE FOREPERSON: ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS
22 TO BE SUBMITTED FROM THE GRAND JURORS?
23 IF THEY WOULD SUBMIT THEM AT THIS TIME, PLEASE.
24
25 (SHORT PAUSE.)
26
27 Q. BY MS. CLARK: WERE THERE ANY OTHER BLOOD
28 DROPS IN THE HOUSE BESIDES THE ONE, TWO OR THREE THAT YOU
364
1 SAW IN THE DOORWAY, IF YOU KNOW?
2 A. I DON'T KNOW THAT.
3 Q. WHEN YOU ENCOUNTERED MR. SIMPSON UPON HIS
4 RETURN FROM CHICAGO, DID YOU SEE HIM IN POSSESSION OF ANY
5 GOLF CLUBS?
6 A. NO.
7 Q. DID YOU EVER SEE ANY GOLF CLUBS -- STRIKE
8 THAT.
9 DID YOU OBSERVE ANY BLOOD ON THE STEERING WHEEL
10 OF THE BRONCO WHEN YOU SAW THE BLOOD ON THE DOOR HANDLE?
11 A. I DON'T RECALL SEEING IT ON THE STEERING WHEEL,
12 BUT THERE WAS OTHER BLOOD INSIDE THE VEHICLE THAT I SAW,
13 YES.
14 Q. DO YOU RECALL SEEING SOME BLOOD ON THE CONSOLE
15 OF THE VEHICLE?
16 A. YES.
17 THERE WAS BLOOD ON THE CONSOLE AND BLOOD ON THE
18 INSIDE OF THE DRIVER'S DOOR OF THE VEHICLE THAT YOU COULD
19 SEE FROM THE OUTSIDE.
20 Q. WHAT ABOUT THE FLOOR OF THE VEHICLE WHERE THE
21 DRIVER WOULD SIT, PLACE HIS FEET?
22 WAS THERE ANY BLOOD THERE?
23 A. I COULD NOT SEE THAT.
24 THERE WAS A HAT LYING ON THE FLOORBOARD WHERE
25 THE DRIVER WOULD HAVE HIS FEET. I COULDN'T ACTUALLY SEE
26 THE FLOORBOARD.
27 AND I HAD THE VEHICLE IMPOUNDED FOR
28 SAFEKEEPING, AND THAT WAS DONE BY THE CRIMINALIST AGAIN.
365
1 Q. DID YOU SEE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS LEADING AWAY FROM
2 THE CRIME SCENE, 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. IF YOU WERE ABLE TO LOCATE SHOES THAT MATCHED
5 THAT PATTERN, WOULD THAT BE OF ASSISTANCE TO YOU IN THE
6 INVESTIGATION?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. IS THERE ANY OTHER INFORMATION THAT YOU CAN
9 GAIN FROM EXAMINATION OF THOSE FOOTPRINTS, IF YOU KNOW?
10 A. YES, THERE IS OTHER INFORMATION THAT CAN BE
11 GAINED FROM IT.
12 Q. FOR EXAMPLE?
13 A. WELL, YOU CAN IDENTIFY THE TYPE OF SHOE IF THE
14 PATTERN IS GOOD ENOUGH, THE MAKE AND TYPE OF THE SHOE.
15 YOU CAN ALSO DO A STRIDE ANALYSIS OF THE SHOE
16 OR PATTERN TO GIVE YOU A PROPOSED FEELING WHETHER A PERSON
17 IS WALKING OR RUNNING OR WHATEVER, WHAT HAVE YOU.
18 BUT THAT'S OUT OF MY EXPERTISE AREA.
19 Q. THAT WOULD BE FOR A CRIMINALIST.
20 IS THAT RIGHT?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
22 Q. HAVE YOU DETERMINED IN THE COURSE OF YOUR
23 INVESTIGATION AT THIS TIME WHETHER AT THE CRIME SCENE THE
24 GATES THAT WERE NEAR TO THE BODIES, WERE THEY SECURITY
25 GATES OPERABLE ONLY FROM THE INSIDE OR WHETHER THERE WAS A
26 KEY THAT WAS NEEDED TO OPERATE THEM FROM THE OUTSIDE?
27 A. I PERSONALLY HAVE NOT DETERMINED THAT.
28 Q. IS THIS INVESTIGATION CURRENTLY ONGOING, SIR?
366
1 A. YES, IT CERTAINLY IS.
2 Q. VERY ACTIVELY?
3 A. VERY ACTIVELY.
4 Q. CAN YOU RECALL WHAT WAS IMMEDIATELY TO THE
5 SOUTH OF THE CRIME SCENE AREA?
6 A. YES.
7 THE CRIME SCENE AREA IS A DUPLEX.
8 IMMEDIATELY SOUTH OF THE CRIME SCENE AREA, I
9 BELIEVE, IS 873 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE, WHICH SHARES A COMMON
10 WALL WITH 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
11 Q. AND DO YOU RECALL WHAT WAS IMMEDIATELY TO THE
12 SOUTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS?
13 A. THERE IS ANOTHER RESIDENCE, BUT I BELIEVE --
14 AND RIGHT NOW I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THAT WOULD CONSIST OF.
15 MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
16 THE FOREPERSON: THERE BEING NO FURTHER QUESTIONS,
17 DETECTIVE VANNATTER, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, PLEASE LISTEN VERY
18 CAREFULLY TO WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU NOW:
19 YOU ARE ADMONISHED NOT TO REVEAL TO ANY OTHER
20 PERSON, EXCEPT AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, WHAT QUESTIONS WERE
21 ASKED OF YOU AND WHAT RESPONSES WERE GIVEN.
22 IN ADDITION, YOU ARE NOT TO REVEAL ANY OTHER
23 MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATURE OR SUBJECT OF THE
24 INVESTIGATION WHICH YOU LEARNED DURING YOUR APPEARANCE
25 HERE, UNLESS AND UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A TRANSCRIPT OF THESE
26 PROCEEDINGS IS MADE PUBLIC.
27 I WISH TO ADVISE YOU ALSO THAT A VIOLATION OF
28 THIS ORDER CAN BE THE BASIS OF A CONTEMPT CHARGE AGAINST
367
1 YOU.
2 DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
3 THE WITNESS: YES, I UNDERSTAND.
4 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
5 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
6 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
7
8 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
9 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
10
11 THE FOREPERSON: THE GRAND JURY IS IN RECESS FOR ITS
12 LUNCH BREAK AT THIS TIME.
13 WE WILL RECONVENE IN THIS CASE AT 2:00 O'CLOCK.
14
15 (NOON RECESS TAKEN.)
16 -O0O-
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
368
1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, JUNE 22, 1994
2 2:00 P.M.
3 -O0O-
4
5 (AT THE BEGINNING OF THESE PROCEEDINGS,
6 20 GRAND JURORS WERE PRESENT.)
7
8 THE FOREPERSON: THIS HEARING IS NOW IN SESSION.
9 MADAME SECRETARY?
10 THE SECRETARY: LET THE RECORD REFLECT THE SAME
11 TWENTY GRAND JURORS PRESENT AT THIS MORNING'S ROLL CALL ARE
12 NOW PRESENT.
13 THE FOREPERSON: WE ARE CONTINUING WITH THE MATTER
14 BEFORE US:
15 "NAME OF POSSIBLE DEFENDANT:
16 "ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON.
17 THE DEPUTIES DISTRICT ATTORNEY ARE MARSHA
18 CLARK AND DAVID CONN.
19 MS. CLARK: PEOPLE CALL THANO PERATIS.
20 WE HAVE TO ADD HIM TO THE LIST.
21 T-H-A-N-O P-E-R-A-T-I-S.
22 THE FOREPERSON: THANO PERATIS, PLEASE RAISE YOUR
23 RIGHT HAND.
24 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
25 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
26 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
27 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
28 THE WITNESS: I DO.
369
1 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
2 MR. PERATIS, PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR FULL
3 NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE.
4 THE WITNESS: THANO M. PERATIS.
5 T-H-A-N-O M. P-E-R-A-T-I-S.
6 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
7 YOU MAY PROCEED.
8 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
9
10 THANO M. PERATIS,
11 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
12 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
13
14 E X A M I N A T I O N
15 BY MS. CLARK:
16 Q. TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING, MR. PERATIS.
17 A. I'M A REGISTERED NURSE.
18 Q. WHERE DO YOU WORK?
19 A. PARKER CENTER JAIL.
20 Q. AS A REGISTERED NURSE, DO YOU HAVE SOME
21 TRAINING?
22 A. SORRY?
23 Q. DO YOU HAVE A HARD TIME HEARING ME, SIR?
24 CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
25 A. YEAH, THAT'S BETTER.
26 Q. WHAT IS YOUR TRAINING TO BECOME A NURSE?
27 A. I WENT TO NURSING SCHOOL.
28 Q. DID YOU RECEIVE A DEGREE AS A REGISTERED NURSE?
370
1 A. YES, MA'AM.
2 Q. AS SUCH, ARE YOU QUALIFIED TO REMOVE BLOOD FROM
3 PEOPLE IN A MEDICALLY APPROVED MANNER?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. IS THAT PART OF THE DUTIES YOU PERFORM AS THE
6 NURSE AT THE JAIL DISPENSERY AT PARKER CENTER HERE IN
7 LOS ANGELES COUNTY?
8 A. YES, IT IS.
9 Q. AND ON JUNE 13, 1994, WERE YOU WORKING THAT
10 DAY, SIR --
11 A. YES, MA'AM.
12 Q. -- AT PARKER CENTER IN YOUR USUAL CAPACITY AS A
13 REGISTERED NURSE?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. WERE YOU REQUESTED TO REMOVE BLOOD FROM THE ARM
16 OF A PERSON BY THE NAME OF MR. ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON?
17 A. NOT QUITE WITH THAT.
18 THE INITIALS WERE O.J. SIMPSON, YES.
19 Q. DID YOU REMOVE A BLOOD SAMPLE FROM THAT PERSON?
20 A. YES, I DID.
21 Q. ON JUNE 13?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. I WILL SHOW YOU PEOPLE'S 23 AND YOU TELL ME IF
24 THAT'S THE PERSON YOU REMOVED BLOOD FROM.
25 A. YES, IT IS.
26 Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US WHAT IS THE METHOD BY
27 WHICH YOU REMOVED BLOOD FROM MR. SIMPSON.
28 A. I PUT A TOURNIQUET ON HIS ARM, CLEANED THE SITE
371
1 WITH AQUEOUS ZEPHRIN AND PUT A 10 C.C. SYRINGE WITH ABOUT
2 A NO. 20 NEEDLE IN THE VEIN, IN HIS ARM AND I WITHDREW
3 ABOUT 8 C.C.'S OF BLOOD.
4 AND I THEN PUT THE BLOOD INTO A TEST TUBE THAT
5 HAD A PRESERVATIVE CALLED E.D.T.A. AND THEN HANDED IT TO
6 THE OFFICER, TO THE DETECTIVE, AND THEN PUT A DRESSING ON
7 HIM.
8 Q. ON THE ARM?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. APPROXIMATELY HOW MUCH BLOOD DID YOU REMOVE?
11 A. APPROXIMATELY 8 CC'S.
12 Q. AND THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU REMOVED THAT BLOOD,
13 DID IT AVOID ANY CONTAMINATION OF THE BLOOD?
14 A. OH, DEFINITELY.
15 Q. AND THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU PACKAGED IT, WAS IT
16 ALSO SEALED TO PREVENT ANY CONTAMINATION?
17 A. YES, MA'AM.
18 Q. DID YOU THEN PUT IT IN SOME KIND OF A PACKAGE?
19 A. I HANDED IT TO ONE OF THE DETECTIVES, WHO PUT
20 IT INTO A LARGE GRAY ENVELOPE.
21 Q. DID YOU HAND IT TO DETECTIVE PHILLIP VANNATTER?
22 A. VANNATTER, YES.
23 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
24 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
25 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
26 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
27 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
28
372
1 (SHORT PAUSE.)
2
3 THE FOREPERSON: THERE BEING NO FURTHER QUESTIONS,
4 MR. PERATIS, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, PLEASE LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY
5 TO WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU NOW:
6 YOU ARE ADMONISHED NOT TO REVEAL TO ANY OTHER
7 PERSON, EXCEPT AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, WHAT QUESTIONS WERE
8 ASKED OF YOU AND WHAT RESPONSES WERE GIVEN.
9 IN ADDITION, YOU ARE NOT TO REVEAL ANY OTHER
10 MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATURE OR SUBJECT OF THE
11 INVESTIGATION WHICH YOU LEARNED DURING YOUR APPEARANCE
12 HERE, UNLESS AND UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A TRANSCRIPT OF THESE
13 PROCEEDINGS IS MADE PUBLIC.
14 I WISH TO ADVISE YOU ALSO THAT A VIOLATION OF
15 THIS ORDER CAN BE THE BASIS OF A CONTEMPT CHARGE AGAINST
16 YOU.
17 DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
18 THE WITNESS: YES.
19 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
20 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
21
22 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
23 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
24
25 MS. CLARK: PEOPLE CALL MR. DENNIS FUNG.
26 THE FOREPERSON: DENNIS FUNG, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT
27 HAND.
28 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
373
1 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
2 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
3 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
4 THE WITNESS: I DO.
5 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
6 MR. FUNG, PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR FULL
7 NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE.
8 THE WITNESS: MY NAME IS DENNIS KIRK FUNG.
9 D-E-N-N-I-S K-I-R-K F-U-N-G.
10 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
11 YOU MAY PROCEED.
12
13 DENNIS KIRK FUNG,
14 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
15 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
16
17 E X A M I N A T I O N
18 BY MS. CLARK:
19 Q. MR. FUNG, CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU DO.
20 A. I AM A CRIMINALIST EMPLOYED BY THE LOS ANGELES
21 POLICE DEPARTMENT.
22 I WORK IN THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION DIVISION
23 AND I'M ASSIGNED TO THE FIREARMS ANALYSIS UNIT.
24 PART OF MY DUTIES INCLUDE PROCESSING CRIME
25 SCENES; THAT IS, COLLECTING EVIDENCE AND DOCUMENTING
26 PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AT A CRIME SCENE.
27 Q. AND DID YOU RECEIVE SOME TRAINING IN ORDER TO
28 PERFORM THOSE DUTIES?
374
1 A. YES, I HAVE.
2 I HAVE A BACHELOR OF SCIENCE DEGREE IN
3 CRIMINALISTICS FROM THE CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY AT LONG
4 BEACH.
5 I ALSO HAVE A BACHELOR OF ARTS IN CHEMISTRY
6 FROM LONG BEACH STATE.
7 I HAVE CONDUCTED OVER 500 CRIME SCENE
8 SEARCHES.
9 I HAVE ATTENDED SEMINARS GIVEN BY THE
10 CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF CRIMINALISTS AND THE AMERICAN
11 ACADEMY OF FORENSIC SCIENCES REGARDING CRIME SCENE SEARCHES
12 AND RECONSTRUCTIONS.
13 Q. WERE YOU ALSO THE CRIMINALIST, THEN, ASSIGNED
14 TO COLLECT AND RETRIEVE THE EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE, SIR?
15 A. YES, I WAS.
16 Q. NOW, DOES EVERY CASE HAVE A D.R. NUMBER?
17 A. YES, IT DOES.
18 Q. THIS ONE ALSO DOES?
19 A. YES, IT DOES.
20 Q. WHEN YOU COLLECT EVIDENCE AT ANY CRIME SCENE,
21 AND THIS ONE INCLUDED, DO YOU PACKAGE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE
22 IN A PARTICULAR MANNER?
23 A. YES, I DO.
24 Q. WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU
25 PACKAGE THE EVIDENCE?
26 A. I WILL WRITE THE D.R. NUMBER AND ITEM NUMBER ON
27 EACH PACKAGE OR ITEM OF EVIDENCE AND I WILL THEN STORE THEM
28 IN A MANNER APPROPRIATE FOR THE PRESERVATION OF THAT
375
1 EVIDENCE.
2 Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT, SIR?
3 A. ITEMS SUCH AS BLOOD STAINS THAT NEED TO BE IN A
4 COLD LOCATION WILL BE STORED IN THE FROZEN SECTION OF THE
5 PROPERTY DIVISION, AND SHELF STORAGE ITEMS WILL BE SO
6 LABELED ALSO.
7 Q. SO THE GOAL, THEN, IS TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF
8 THE EVIDENCE YOU COLLECT IS PRESERVED AND NOT CONTAMINATED
9 IN ANY WAY?
10 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
11 Q. EVERY PACKAGE YOU PLACE ITEMS INTO, DOES THAT
12 BEAR A D.R. NUMBER?
13 A. YES.
14 Q. THAT IS SO EVERYONE KEEPS THE EVIDENCE THAT
15 GOES TO EACH CASE SEPARATE.
16 IS THAT RIGHT?
17 A. YES.
18 Q. DID YOU ALSO CAUSE THE EVIDENCE COLLECTED IN
19 THIS CASE TO BE PLACED INTO PACKAGES APPROPRIATE FOR ITS
20 PRESERVATION AND MARKED WITH A D.R. NUMBER FOR THE CASE?
21 A. YES, I DID.
22 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS THE D.R. NUMBER FOR THIS
23 CASE?
24 A. IF I MAY REFER TO MY NOTES.
25 Q. YES.
26 DO YOU NEED YOUR NOTES TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY?
27 A. YES, I DO.
28 Q. DO YOU WRITE THE D.R. NUMBER ON ALL YOUR NOTES?
376
1 A. YES, I DO.
2 THE D.R. NUMBER FOR THIS CASE IS 94-0817431.
3 Q. THANK YOU.
4 NOW, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE DATE OF
5 JUNE 13, 1994.
6 ON THAT DATE, DID YOU RESPOND TO A LOCATION,
7 THE LOCATION AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE IN LOS ANGELES
8 COUNTY?
9 A. YES, I DID.
10 Q. DID YOU DO SO IN THE SCOPE AND COURSE OF YOUR
11 DUTIES AS A CRIMINALIST?
12 A. YES, I DID.
13 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION SIR TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS
14 THAT HAVE BEEN COLLECTIVELY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 1, 27, AND
15 26 THAT YOU NOW SEE BEFORE YOU.
16 A. YES.
17 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE CRIME SCENE AS SHOWN IN
18 THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
19 A. YES, I DO.
20 Q. AND WHERE WAS THAT CRIME SCENE?
21 A. THAT CRIME SCENE WAS AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
22 Q. IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. IS THAT THE CRIME SCENE YOU RESPONDED TO ON
25 JUNE 13, 1994?
26 A. YES, IT IS.
27 Q. NOW, I'M JUST GOING TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO
28 CERTAIN ITEMS OF EVIDENCE.
377
1 CAN YOU TELL US HOW MANY TOTAL ITEMS OF
2 EVIDENCE YOU RECOVERED FROM THAT CRIME SCENE.
3 A. THAT PARTICULAR CRIME LOCATION?
4 Q. YES.
5 A. I'M REFERRING TO MY NOTES NOW.
6 TWENTY-THREE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE WERE COLLECTED
7 AT THAT LOCATION.
8 Q. WAS ONE OF THOSE ITEMS A BROWN MAN'S LEATHER
9 GLOVE?
10 A. YES, IT WAS.
11 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SET OF
12 PHOTOGRAPHS, PEOPLE'S 26.
13 CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU SEE THE GLOVE YOU HAVE
14 JUST REFERRED TO.
15 A. IF I MAY TAKE A CLOSER LOOK?
16 Q. YES.
17 A. YES. THE GLOVE I AM REFERRING TO IS SHOWN IN
18 PHOTOGRAPH -A, THE PERSON IS POINTING TO IT THERE.
19 IT IS ALSO IN PHOTOGRAPH -B, IN THE BOTTOM
20 LEFT-HAND CORNER.
21 IT IS IN PHOTOGRAPH -C, NEXT TO THE PHOTO I.D.,
22 NO. 102.
23 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B AND -C, DO THEY ACTUALLY
24 DEPICT THE GLOVE IN THE LOCATION AND CONDITION YOU FOUND
25 IT?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH RESPECT TO THAT GLOVE?
28 A. INITIALLY, I MEASURED TO SEE -- TO LOCATE WHERE
378
1 IT WAS FOUND, DOCUMENTED THAT LOCATION AND THEN PLACED IT
2 IN A PAPER BAG FOR LATER PROCESSING.
3 Q. AND THE BAG YOU PLACED IT IN, DID IT BEAR THE
4 D.R. NUMBER YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY GIVEN US?
5 A. I DID PUT THAT D.R. NUMBER ON THAT BAG AT A
6 LATER DATE, YES.
7 Q. DID YOU ALSO OBSERVE BLOOD DROPS LEADING AWAY
8 FROM THE BODIES TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE LOCATION OF 875
9 SOUTH BUNDY?
10 A. THERE WAS A BLOOD TRAIL. I COULDN'T DETERMINE
11 IF IT WAS COMING FROM OR TO.
12 HOWEVER, THERE WAS ONE LEADING TO THE -- OR TO
13 OR FROM THE CRIME SCENE IN THE REAR, OR NORTH OF THE
14 BUILDING.
15 Q. LEADING FROM THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION TO THE
16 BACK OF THE LOCATION?
17 A. YES.
18 Q. THE PHOTOGRAPHS HAVE BEEN MARKED AS
19 PEOPLE'S 28, -A THROUGH -G.
20 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT LOCATION?
21 A. YES, I DO.
22 Q. WHAT DOES THAT SHOW?
23 A. THAT DEPICTS THE TRAIL OF BLOOD STAINS THAT
24 LEADS FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.
25 AND THAT'S ALSO ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE,
26 ALSO.
27 Q. DOES THAT APPEAR TO DEPICT SOME OF THE BLOOD
28 DROPS WE ARE REFERRING TO NOW AS THE BLOOD TRAIL?
379
1 A. YES, IT DOES.
2 Q. NOW, DID YOU ALSO OBSERVE BLOODY SHOE PRINTS
3 LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODIES?
4 A. YES, I DID.
5 Q. WERE THERE BLOOD DROPS NEXT TO THOSE SHOE
6 PRINTS?
7 A. YES, THERE WERE.
8 Q. DID YOU ATTEMPT TO RETRIEVE AND PRESERVE THE
9 BLOOD FOUND IN THOSE BLOOD DROPS?
10 A. YES, I DID.
11 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO?
12 A. I TRANSFERRED THE BLOOD DROPS ONTO -- ONTO
13 CLOTH SQUARES OR CLOTH SWATCHES.
14 WHAT I DID WAS WET THE CLOTH SWATCHES WITH
15 DISTILLED WATER AND THEN APPLIED THEM TO THE STAIN, THE RED
16 STAINS WHICH ARE LATER DETERMINED TO BE BLOOD, AND THEY
17 WERE TRANSFERRED ON IN THAT METHOD.
18 Q. IS THAT AN APPROVED -- SCIENTIFICALLY APPROVED
19 METHOD FOR THE PRESERVATION AND PREVENTION OF CONTAMINATION
20 OF BLOOD STAINS AND BLOOD DRIPPINGS?
21 A. THAT'S THE WAY I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT ALL THE WAY
22 THROUGH SCHOOL, THROUGH SEMINARS AND THAT'S THE WAY WE DO
23 IT IN THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT.
24 Q. TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IS THAT A SCIENTIFICALLY
25 APPROVED MANNER?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. AND AFTER YOU COLLECTED THOSE BLOOD DROPS AND
28 YOU PRESERVED THEM, DID YOU MARK THEM WITH A D.R. NUMBER
380
1 FOR THIS CASE?
2 A. YES, I DID.
3 Q. AND WHO DID YOU SUBMIT THEM TO?
4 A. I GAVE THEM TO CRIMINALIST YAMAUCHI AT THE LAB.
5 Q. WAS THAT ON THE DATE OF JUNE 14?
6 A. YES, IT WAS.
7 Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT IS KNOWN AS A STRIDE
8 ANALYSIS?
9 A. YES, I AM.
10 Q. WHAT IS IT?
11 A. IF YOU HAVE SHOE PRINTS OR FOOTPRINTS ON THE
12 GROUND, YOU CAN MEASURE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE SHOE
13 PRINTS AND DETERMINE HOW FAR OR HOW LARGE -- NOT LARGE --
14 THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THEM, AND SOMETIMES YOU CAN DETERMINE
15 IF A PERSON IS WALKING OR RUNNING, DEPENDING ON DIFFERENT
16 FACTORS, SUCH AS HEIGHT AND WEIGHT.
17 Q. DID YOU ATTEMPT TO PERFORM THAT ANALYSIS IN
18 THIS CASE?
19 A. YES, I DID.
20 Q. HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DOING THAT?
21 A. I MEASURED THE FOOTPRINTS, AND ALSO I WALKED
22 ALONG THE BLOODY SHOE PRINT PATH AND DETERMINED THAT THE
23 PERSON WHO MADE THE SHOE PRINTS WAS NOT RUNNING BUT WAS
24 WALKING.
25 Q. COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THEY WERE WALKING
26 QUICKLY OR AT A NORMAL PACE?
27 A. NOT REALLY.
28 Q. THE DISTINCTION CAN BE MADE BETWEEN RUNNING AND
381
1 WALKING?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. AND THAT'S BASED ON THE BLOOD DRIPPINGS AS WELL
4 AS THE SHOE PRINT?
5 A. IT'S BASED MOSTLY ON THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE
6 SHOE PRINTS, BETWEEN EACH SHOE PRINT.
7 Q. WHAT, IF ANY, CONCLUSION CAN WE DRAW ABOUT THE
8 HEIGHT OR SIZE OF THE PERSON WHO MADE THOSE SHOE PRINTS,
9 FROM WHAT YOU SAW?
10 A. ON A SHOE PRINT ON CONCRETE LIKE THAT, NOT VERY
11 MUCH CAN BE SAID.
12 Q. WHY IS THAT?
13 A. FOR WEIGHT DETERMINATION, SOIL IS A BETTER
14 MEDIUM, BECAUSE THEN YOU CAN SAY THAT A VERY HEAVY PERSON
15 WILL MAKE A DEEPER SHOE PRINT AND A LIGHTER PERSON WILL
16 MAKE A MORE SHALLOW SHOE PRINT.
17 AND IN THIS MEDIUM, YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THAT.
18 Q. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE AN IMPRESSION ON
19 CONCRETE --
20 A. RIGHT.
21 Q. -- BUT THE SIZE OF THE SHOE PRINT?
22 A. THE SIZE OF THE SHOE PRINT WOULD INDICATE THE
23 PERSON'S FOOT SIZE, IF HE'S WEARING THE PROPER SHOES.
24 Q. AS OPPOSED TO EITHER SHOES THAT ARE TOO BIG OR
25 TOO SMALL?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. WHAT OBSERVATION DID YOU MAKE WITH RESPECT TO
28 THE SIZE OF THESE SHOES?
382
1 A. I DIDN'T DO A SHOE SIZE DETERMINATION, BUT IT
2 APPEARED TO BE AN ADULT-SIZED SHOE PRINT.
3 Q. CAN YOU TELL WHETHER IT APPEARED TO BE THE SIZE
4 OF FOOT YOU WOULD SEE ON A MAN VERSUS A WOMAN?
5 A. NOT REALLY, NO.
6 Q. WHY NOT?
7 A. THE SHOE PRINTS OF -- THE SIZE OF SHOES WILL --
8 ARE VERY DIVERSE.
9 AND I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE SHOE ANALYSIS ASSIST
10 UNIT FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS, SO I'M KIND OF RUSTY ON THAT ASPECT
11 OF SHOE PRINT ANALYSIS.
12 Q. SO YOU ARE DISQUALIFYING YOURSELF ON THAT ONE.
13 BASICALLY, ARE YOU TELLING US YOU ARE NOT
14 QUALIFIED TO RENDER AN OPINION AS TO THAT BECAUSE OF A LACK
15 OF EXPERIENCE AND TRAINING?
16 A. YES, AT THIS POINT.
17 MS. CLARK: I WILL ASK THE JURY TO DISREGARD ANY
18 STATEMENTS CONCERNING THE CONCLUSIONS THAT HE MAY HAVE
19 DRAWN ABOUT THE WEARER OF THE SHOE BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE
20 IMPRESSION THAT HE SAW.
21 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE STRIDE ANALYSIS, WHAT IS
22 THE BASIS FOR THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU DRAW CONCERNING THE
23 PACE OF THE PERSON MOVING WHO DRIPPED THAT BLOOD?
24 A. AS I WALKED ALONG THE BLOODY SHOE PRINT PATH, I
25 WAS WALKING AND I WOULD EXPECT THE SHOE PRINTS -- THE
26 DISTANCE BETWEEN EACH SHOE PRINTS TO BE A MUCH GREATER
27 DISTANCE FOR SOMEBODY WHO WAS RUNNING. AND IT WAS
28 PRETTY -- THE STRIDE WAS NOT MUCH DIFFERENT FROM MY OWN
383
1 WHEN I WAS WALKING, SO THAT IS HOW I BASED MY CONCLUSION.
2 Q. YOU BASED YOUR CONCLUSION ON THE DISTANCE
3 BETWEEN THE SHOE PRINTS?
4 A. YES, BETWEEN CONSECUTIVE SHOE PRINTS.
5 Q. WAS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE
6 BLOOD DRIPPING THAT SUPPORTED THAT CONCLUSION AS WELL?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. WHEN I SAY THAT, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE BLOOD
9 DROPS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S -- I BELIEVE IT'S 28.
10 THAT'S RIGHT, PEOPLE'S 28.
11 A. YES.
12 ASSUMING THAT THOSE BLOOD STAINS ARE FROM --
13 WERE MADE BY THE PERSON WHO ALSO MADE THE SHOE PRINTS, I
14 WOULD EXPECT THOSE BLOOD DROPS TO HAVE LITTLE TRAILING
15 EDGES TO THEM THAT WOULD INDICATE A DIRECTION.
16 BUT THEY PRETTY MUCH DO NOT HAVE DIRECTION
17 ASSOCIATED WITH THEM.
18 Q. THEN WHAT ARE YOU TELLING US ABOUT THOSE BLOOD
19 DROPS?
20 A. THOSE BLOOD DROPS WERE MADE BY SOMEBODY GOING
21 IN A RELATIVELY SLOW -- SLOW VELOCITY, SLOW SPEED.
22 Q. ARE YOU BASING THAT ON THE APPEARANCE OF THE
23 BLOOD DROPS?
24 A. YES, I AM.
25 Q. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE APPEARANCE OF THOSE BLOOD
26 DROPS THAT CAUSES YOU TO COME TO THAT CONCLUSION?
27 A. THEY ARE ROUND BLOOD DROPS WITH NO APPARENT
28 TRAILING EDGES.
384
1 Q. THE TRAILING EDGES ARE WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO
2 FIND IF HE WAS MOVING OR SHE WAS MOVING MORE QUICKLY?
3 A. YES.
4 MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT?
5 THE FOREPERSON: YOU MAY DO SO.
6
7 (SHORT PAUSE.)
8
9 Q. BY MS. CLARK: BASED ON WHAT YOU SAW IN THE
10 BLOOD DROPS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 28 AND THE SHOE PRINTS THAT
11 YOU HAVE DESCRIBED THAT WERE ADJACENT TO THOSE BLOOD DROPS,
12 DID YOU -- WHERE THE BLOOD DROPS ARE, DO THE BLOOD DROPS
13 APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN DRIPPED BY THE PERSON WHO MADE THE SHOE
14 PRINTS?
15 A. IT'S CONSISTENT.
16 THERE IS NOTHING THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT THEY
17 WERE NOT.
18 Q. IF YOU COULD, SIR, STEP DOWN AND LOOK AT
19 PEOPLE'S 28.
20 CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER IN PHOTOGRAPH -C YOU
21 SEE A PARTIAL SHOE PRINT OF THE TYPE YOU WERE DISCUSSING
22 THAT YOU SAW AT THE CRIME SCENE LEADING AWAY FROM THE
23 BODIES.
24 A. THERE APPEARS THAT THIS MAY BE A SHOE PRINT OR
25 PARTIAL SHOE PRINT IN PHOTOGRAPH -C ON PEOPLE'S 28.
26 Q. WHEN YOU SAID, "THERE APPEARS," YOU POINTED TO
27 AN AREA THAT IS JUST DIAGONALLY AND TO THE LEFT AS YOU FACE
28 IT BELOW THE NO. 239.
385
1 A. YES.
2 Q. DOES IT APPEAR TO BE A HEAL AREA?
3 A. I CAN'T REALLY SAY FROM THAT PHOTOGRAPH.
4 IT MAY BE.
5 Q. SHOWING YOU THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN PEOPLE'S 26,
6 PHOTOGRAPH -B.
7 CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU SEE ANY EXAMPLES OF SHOE
8 PRINTS THAT YOU SAW LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODIES IN THESE
9 PHOTOGRAPHS.
10 A. WITHOUT HAVING THE BENEFIT OF THE ACTUAL SHOE
11 PRINTS TO COMPARE AGAINST, THESE DO -- THE HEAL PRINTS IN
12 -A, -B AND -C ARE SIMILAR TO THOSE THAT I SAW ON THE BLOODY
13 SHOE PRINTS, BUT I'M NOT 100 PERCENT CERTAIN.
14 BUT THEY DO REPRESENT THEM -- BUT THEY DO
15 REPRESENT THE TRAIL.
16 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "THEY REPRESENT THE TRAIL" --
17 A. OR THEY REPRESENT THE SAME SHOE PRINTS AS THOSE
18 THAT WERE ALONG THE TRAIL.
19 Q. YOU MEAN THE HEAL PRINTS SHOWN IN -A, -B AND -C
20 OF THAT EXHIBIT APPEAR THE SAME AS THE PRINTS THAT YOU SAW
21 LEADING ALONG THE BLOOD TRAIL ON THE LANDING LEADING AWAY
22 FROM THE BODY?
23 A. FROM MY MEMORY, YES.
24 Q. WERE CLOSER PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN OF THE SHOE
25 PRINTS YOU SAW LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODY ALONG THE LANDING
26 THAT WENT TO THE BACK OF THE RESIDENCE?
27 A. YES, THERE WERE.
28 HOWEVER, I HAVE NOT RECEIVED THEM YET.
386
1 Q. THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PROCESSED YET, THOSE
2 PHOTOGRAPHS?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. I SEE.
5 SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AT THIS TIME, SIR, BASED
6 ON YOUR MEMORY OF THE CRIME SCENE AS YOU SAW IT ON JUNE 13,
7 THOSE APPEAR TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE SAME PATTERN THAT
8 YOU SAW LEADING AWAY FROM THE CRIME SCENE?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. BUT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN
11 FRONT OF YOU HAVE TO BE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN?
12 A. YES; THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
13 Q. AND THIS INVESTIGATION IS STILL VERY MUCH IN
14 PROGRESS.
15 IS THAT CORRECT?
16 A. YES, IT IS.
17 Q. AND NOT ALL OF THE EVIDENCE HAS BEEN COMPLETED
18 IN TERMS OF ANALYSIS, HAS IT?
19 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
20 Q. NOW, DID YOU ALSO RESPOND TO THE LOCATION OF
21 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE IN BRENTWOOD, LOS ANGELES COUNTY?
22 A. YES, I DID.
23 Q. DID YOU RECOVER EVIDENCE FROM THAT LOCATION AS
24 WELL?
25 A. YES, I DID.
26 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO PEOPLE'S 5.
27 CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE AUTOMOBILE
28 SHOWN IN -A, PHOTOGRAPH -A.
387
1 A. YES, I DO.
2 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE GENTLEMAN IN PHOTOGRAPH -A
3 ALSO?
4 A. THAT APPEARS TO BE ME.
5 Q. WHAT ARE YOU POINTING TO?
6 A. I AM POINTING TO A RED STAIN THAT WAS OBSERVED
7 BY THE DRIVER DOOR EXTERIOR HANDLE.
8 Q. IS THAT A CLOSE-UP SHOWN OF THAT RED STAIN ON
9 PHOTOGRAPH -B?
10 A. YES, IT IS.
11 Q. NOW, IN PHOTOGRAPHS -D AND -E, CAN YOU TELL US
12 WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS.
13 A. THOSE ARE RED STAINS THAT WERE TESTED AND GAVE
14 A PRELIMINARY -- A PRESUMPTIVE POSITIVE FOR THE PRESENCE OF
15 BLOOD.
16 Q. AND SO -D WAS A BLOOD DRIPPING THAT WAS BEHIND
17 THE VEHICLE, AS SHOWN IN -C?
18 A. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHERE THAT WAS LOCATED.
19 Q. WHEN YOU SAID THAT, YOU MEANT PHOTOGRAPH -D?
20 A. YES.
21 BECAUSE THERE IS NO IDENTIFYING MARKER ON THAT
22 PHOTOGRAPH.
23 Q. HOWEVER, IN PHOTOGRAPH -C, THERE IS A MARKER
24 THAT IS ON THE STREET JUST BEHIND THE FORD BRONCO IN FRONT
25 OF THE NO. 360.
26 IS THAT RIGHT?
27 A. YES, THERE IS.
28 Q. AND WHAT IS THAT MARKER THERE FOR?
388
1 A. THAT IS THERE TO LOCATE AN ITEM OF EVIDENCE
2 WHICH HAPPENED TO BE A RED STAIN, ALSO.
3 Q. THAT YOU TESTED FOR -- THAT YOU PERFORMED A
4 PRESUMPTIVE TEST FOR BLOOD ON?
5 A. YES.
6 Q. AND ALSO TESTED POSITIVE?
7 A. YES, IT DID.
8 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPH -E?
9 A. IN PHOTOGRAPH -E IS ANOTHER RED STAIN THAT IS
10 BEING POINTED TO BY A DETECTIVE.
11 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO EXHIBIT
12 PEOPLE'S 2.
13 I'M JUST GOING TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION IN THIS
14 EXHIBIT TO PHOTOGRAPHS -E AND -F.
15 A. YES.
16 Q. DO YOU SEE THE MARKERS HERE ALONG THE WALK WITH
17 THESE LITTLE GREEN TAGS?
18 A. YES, I DO.
19 Q. ALL THE WAY UP TO THE TAG HERE THAT SEEMS TO BE
20 MARKED WITH AN 8?
21 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THOSE TAGS ARE THERE FOR.
22 A. THOSE MARKERS WERE THERE TO LOCATE THE
23 LOCATIONS WHERE WE FOUND RED STAINS WHICH LATER TURNED OUT
24 TO BE BLOOD.
25 Q. HUMAN BLOOD?
26 A. I CAN'T SAY WHETHER THEY WERE HUMAN AT THAT
27 TIME.
28 I HAVE NOT DONE A HUMAN TEST ON THEM MYSELF.
389
1 Q. SO WHEN YOU SAY YOU DID A PRESUMPTIVE SCREENING
2 TEST FOR BLOOD, YOU JUST DID THAT TO DETERMINE IF IT IS
3 BLOOD, NOT WHETHER IT'S HUMAN OR ANIMAL?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. AND THE PHOTOGRAPH -F THAT HAS A NO. 8 AND WHAT
6 APPEARS TO BE A RED STAIN --
7 A. YES.
8 Q. -- IS THAT THE BLOOD DRIPPING SHOWN IN
9 PEOPLE'S 2, PHOTOGRAPH -D?
10 A. YES, IT IS.
11 Q. AND THEN IN PHOTOGRAPHS -G AND -H OF THIS
12 SERIES, OTHER THAN PEOPLE'S 5, -G AND -H IS SHOWING WHAT?
13 A. -G AND -H DEPICTS THREE ADDITIONAL BLOOD STAINS
14 OR BLOOD DROPS THAT WERE FOUND IN THE FOYER OF THE HOUSE.
15 Q. SO THREE BLOOD DROPS IN THE FOYER OF THE HOUSE
16 MARKED WITH THE NO. 12?
17 A. YES.
18 Q. DID YOU PERFORM A PRESUMPTIVE TEST FOR BLOOD ON
19 THOSE AS WELL?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. AND YOUR CONCLUSION WAS?
22 A. THEY APPEARED TO BE BLOOD.
23 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE BLOOD ON THE CAR SHOWN IN
24 PHOTOGRAPH -A OF PEOPLE'S 5, AS WELL AS -B, AND THE BLOOD
25 BEHIND THE FORD BRONCO SHOWN WITH THE NO. 4 IN PHOTOGRAPH
26 -C AND THE BLOOD SHOWN IN PHOTOGRAPH -F OF THIS EXHIBIT AND
27 IN PHOTOGRAPH -- THAT SAME DROP OF BLOOD SHOWN IN
28 PHOTOGRAPH -D OF PEOPLE'S 2, IN FACT, ALL OF THE BLOOD
390
1 RECOVERED AS SHOWN ON THE MARKERS IN PEOPLE'S 2 IN -G AND
2 -F AS WELL AS 5 IN PHOTOGRAPHS -G AND -H, DID YOU RECOVER
3 ALL OF THOSE FROM THE SCENE FOR FURTHER ANALYSIS?
4 A. THE ONES LABELED WITH NUMBERS, YES, I DID.
5 Q. HOW DID YOU RECOVER THEM?
6 A. I RECOVERED THEM IN THE MANNER DESCRIBED
7 BEFORE, WHERE I WOULD WET A CLOTH SWATCH OR SEVERAL CLOTH
8 SWATCHES, IF NEEDED, APPLY IT TO THE RED STAIN AND THEN LET
9 THE STAIN TRANSFER ONTO THE CLOTH SWATCH.
10 Q. IS THAT A SCIENTIFICALLY APPROVED METHOD FOR
11 THE COLLECTION OF STAINS PRESUMPTIVELY TESTED POSITIVE FOR
12 BLOOD?
13 A. YES, IT IS.
14 Q. DID YOU PACKAGE THEM IN SOME MANNER TO PRESERVE
15 THEM AND PREVENT CONTAMINATION OR LOSS?
16 A. YES, I DID.
17 Q. WHAT WAS THAT METHOD?
18 A. EACH STAIN WAS PACKAGED INDIVIDUALLY IN PLASTIC
19 AT THE SCENE, AND LATER AT THE LAB THEY WERE TRANSFERRED TO
20 TEST TUBES TO DRY.
21 AND AFTER THEY WERE DRIED, THEN THEY WERE
22 INDIVIDUALLY PACKAGED AGAIN TO PAPER BINDLES AND THEN PUT
23 BACK IN THEIR ENVELOPES INDIVIDUALLY AND STORED IN FREEZER
24 STORAGE.
25 Q. IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THOUGH, THE BLOOD
26 DRIPPINGS FROM THE HOUSE, FROM THE INSIDE OF THE HOUSE --
27 A. YES.
28 Q. -- AFTER YOU PACKAGED THEM, DID YOU PLACE
391
1 THEM -- AFTER YOU PUT THEM INTO THE APPROPRIATE CONTAINERS
2 TO PRESERVE THEM, DID YOU PUT THEM IN A PACKAGE BEARING
3 THIS D.R. NUMBER, THE ONE YOU READ TO US EARLIER?
4 A. YES, I DID.
5 Q. DID YOU SUBMITTED THAT TO SOMEONE FOR FURTHER
6 ANALYSIS?
7 A. THE SELECTED BLOOD STAINS WERE GIVEN TO
8 CRIMINALIST YAMAUCHI.
9 Q. WERE THOSE BLOOD STAINS RECOVERED FROM INSIDE
10 THE HOUSE AT 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE?
11 A. SOME OF THEM WERE, YES.
12 Q. AND OTHERS?
13 A. OTHERS WERE RECOVERED FROM THE SOUTH BUNDY
14 ADDRESS.
15 Q. WE ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE SCENE AT 360
16 ROCKINGHAM.
17 FROM 360 ROCKINGHAM, WERE THE STAINS THAT YOU
18 DETERMINED PRESUMPTIVELY TO BE BLOOD TURNED OVER -- THE
19 STAINS, THOSE THAT WERE RECOVERED FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE,
20 WERE THOSE TURNED OVER TO MR. YAMAUCHI FOR ANALYSIS?
21 A. YES.
22 Q. AND WERE THEY MARKED WITH THE D.R. NUMBER FOR
23 THIS CASE THAT YOU HAVE READ EARLIER?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. WAS THAT DONE ON JUNE 15?
26 A. I BELIEVE IT MAY -- I BELIEVE IT WAS ON JUNE 14
27 THAT THAT OCCURRED, THAT I GAVE BLOOD STAINS TO
28 MR. YAMAUCHI.
392
1 IT WAS TUESDAY, I BELIEVE.
2 Q. YOU THINK YOU GAVE THE BLOOD FROM THE FOYER OF
3 THE SUSPECT'S RESIDENCE AT 360 ROCKINGHAM ON WHAT DATE?
4 A. ON THE 14TH OF JUNE.
5 Q. IS THAT WHAT YOUR NOTES SHOW, OR ARE YOU
6 GUESSING?
7 A. MY NOTES SHOW JUNE 14.
8 Q. OKAY.
9 NOW, YOU ALSO WERE INDICATING IN PHOTOGRAPH -A
10 OF THE BRONCO IN PEOPLE'S --
11 A. 5.
12 Q. -- 5, THANK YOU, THAT YOU DETECTED BLOOD IN
13 YOUR PRESUMPTIVE TEST AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE ITEMS YOU
14 PACKAGED AND PLACED A D.R. NUMBER ON.
15 A. YES.
16 Q. DID YOU TURN THAT OVER TO MR. YAMAUCHI ALSO?
17 A. NO, I DID NOT.
18 THAT ONE HAS YET TO BE ANALYZED.
19 Q. ON THE HANDLE, ON THE DOOR HANDLE --
20 A. ITEM NO. 1. --
21 Q. -- THE BLOOD ON THE DOOR HANDLE, IS THAT THE
22 ONLY BLOOD THAT YOU RECOVERED FROM THAT CAR?
23 A. ON THAT DATE, YES.
24 Q. DID YOU SUBSEQUENTLY RECOVER OTHER BLOOD
25 SAMPLES FROM THAT CAR?
26 A. YES, I DID.
27 Q. WHERE IN THE CAR?
28 A. THERE WERE OTHER BLOOD STAINS RECOVERED FROM
393
1 INSIDE THE CAR.
2 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE THEM?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. WHERE DID YOU FIND BLOOD STAINS INSIDE THE CAR?
5 A. THERE WERE BLOOD STAINS ON THE INTERIOR DRIVER
6 DOOR, ON THE DRIVER'S SEAT, ON THE INSTRUMENT PANEL, ON THE
7 DRIVER FLOOR AND ON THE CENTER CONSOLE.
8 Q. ON THE DRIVER'S FLOOR?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. WAS IT AN IMPRESSION LIKE FROM A SHOE?
11 A. THERE APPEARED TO BE A PARTIAL SHOE PRINT ON
12 THE DRIVER FLOOR.
13 Q. AND DID IT TEST POSITIVE FOR BLOOD?
14 A. A PRESUMPTIVE TEST WAS DONE AND IT INDICATED
15 THE PRESENCE OF BLOOD.
16 Q. HAS FURTHER TESTING BEEN COMPLETED ON THAT
17 STAIN YET?
18 A. NO, NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
19 Q. DID YOU TURN OVER SOME BLOOD THAT YOU RECOVERED
20 FROM THE FORD BRONCO TO MR. YAMAUCHI ON JUNE 15, 1994?
21 A. YES, I DID.
22 Q. AND WHERE WAS THAT?
23 WHERE IN THE CAR WAS THAT BLOOD TAKEN FROM?
24 A. LET'S SEE. LET ME SHUFFLE THROUGH MY NOTES.
25 YOU WILL HAVE TO EXCUSE ME.
26 MS. CLARK: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT THE
27 WITNESS HAS BROUGHT ALL HIS REPORTS WITH HIM.
28 AND I WILL IDENTIFY WHAT THOSE REPORTS ARE FOR
394
1 THE RECORD AS SOON AS HE FINDS HIS PLACE.
2 THE WITNESS: OKAY.
3 ON JUNE 15, ITEMS NO. 23, 34, 25, 31, A PORTION
4 OF 33 WERE GIVEN TO CRIMINALIST YAMAUCHI FOR TESTING.
5 Q. BY MS. CLARK: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE ITEM
6 NUMBERS ARE, SO TELL ME WHICH OF THOSE ITEM NUMBERS
7 REFLECTED BLOOD RETRIEVED FROM THE FORD BRONCO THAT YOU
8 FOUND PARKED AT 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE.
9 A. ITEM NO. 23 WAS A RED STAIN THAT WAS RECOVERED
10 FROM THE DRIVER DOOR.
11 ITEM --
12 Q. WAIT.
13 AND THAT ITEM WAS TURNED OVER TO MR. YAMAUCHI
14 FOR FURTHER ANALYSIS ON JUNE 15, 1994?
15 A. YES, IT WAS.
16 Q. NOW, DID YOU ALSO COLLECT A GLOVE FROM THE
17 HOUSE AT 360 ROCKINGHAM FOR FURTHER ANALYSIS?
18 A. YES, I DID.
19 Q. SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 4 FOR IDENTIFICATION.
20 IF YOU CAN TELL ME, DO YOU SEE THE ITEM THAT
21 YOU COLLECTED FROM THAT LOCATION IN THIS EXHIBIT?
22 A. YES, I DO.
23 I CAN'T REALLY MAKE IT OUT IN -A.
24 HOWEVER, IN PHOTOGRAPH -B, YOU CAN SEE A DARK
25 SPOT HERE.
26 THEN, GOING ON TO PHOTOGRAPH -C, YOU CAN SEE A
27 BETTER VIEW OF THAT DARK SPOT.
28 AND IN PHOTOGRAPH -D, YOU CAN SEE THAT IT IS A
395
1 GLOVE.
2 AND THEN IN PHOTOGRAPH -E, YOU CAN SEE A
3 PICTURE THAT WE TOOK BACK AT THE LABORATORY.
4 Q. NOW, THAT PICTURE HAS AN ITEM NUMBER, RIGHT,
5 ITEM NO. 9?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. ITEM NO. 9 IS THE NUMBER ASSOCIATED WITH THE
8 GLOVE THAT YOU FOUND AT MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE ON ROCKINGHAM?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. THE GLOVE THAT YOU FOUND AT THE CRIME SCENE,
11 DID THAT HAVE A NUMBER AS WELL?
12 A. THE SOUTH BUNDY PREMISES.
13 Q. 875 SOUTH BUNDY ADDRESS?
14 A. YES.
15 THAT ALSO HAS AN ITEM NUMBER.
16 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT ITEM NUMBER IS.
17 A. REFERRING TO MY NOTES, THAT ITEM IS ITEM
18 NO. 37, WHICH HAS PHOTO I.D. NO. 102.
19 SORRY.
20 Q. SO WE HAVE TWO NUMBERS THAT MAY BE SHOWN IN
21 THESE PHOTOGRAPHS.
22 ONE IS FOR THE PHOTO IDENTIFICATION AND ONE IS
23 THE NUMBER YOU ASSIGN.
24 IS THAT RIGHT?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. SHOWING YOU THE EXHIBITS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY
27 MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 30 AND 31, SIR.
28 CAN YOU TELL US IF THESE ITEMS ARE SHOWN --
396
1 THAT ARE SHOWN HERE REFLECT THE GLOVE THAT YOU COLLECTED
2 FROM THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND FROM THE HOME
3 OF MR. SIMPSON AT 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE, BOTH IN
4 LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
5 A. YES, THEY DO.
6 Q. AND ITEM 37 WAS THE ONE FROM THE CRIME SCENE AT
7 BUNDY DRIVE?
8 A. YES, IT WAS.
9 Q. NOW, DID YOU PERFORM SOME ANALYSIS ON THESE
10 GLOVES BEFORE YOU TOOK THEM IN?
11 A. I PERFORMED A PRESUMPTIVE TEST FOR BLOOD ON THE
12 GLOVE AT ROCKINGHAM AND DETERMINED THAT THE STAIN ON THE
13 GLOVE INDICATED THE PRESENCE OF BLOOD.
14 Q. THE ONE FROM ROCKINGHAM CONTAINED BLOOD?
15 A. ACCORDING TO THE PRESUMPTIVE TEST, YES.
16 Q. HAVE YOU DONE ANY TESTING YET ON THE GLOVE
17 RECOVERED FROM 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
18 A. I ALSO DID A PRESUMPTIVE TEST FOR BLOOD ON
19 THAT, AND IT CAME BACK INDICATING THE PRESENCE OF BLOOD ON
20 THAT GLOVE ALSO.
21 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE BLOOD -- EXCUSE ME -- THE
22 GLOVE RECOVERED FROM MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE, YOUR ITEM
23 NO. 9 --
24 A. YES.
25 Q. -- THAT YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED IN ALL OF THE
26 PHOTOGRAPHS PREVIOUSLY, DID YOU COLLECT THAT AND PRESERVE
27 IT IN A MANNER THAT WOULD PREVENT IT FROM BEING
28 CONTAMINATED?
397
1 A. YES, I DID.
2 Q. HOW WAS THAT?
3 A. I PLACED THE GLOVE IN A PAPER BAG AND LATER PUT
4 IT INTO THE FROZEN STORAGE AREA OF THE LAB, BOOKED IT INTO
5 FROZEN STORAGE.
6 Q. THE GLOVE RECOVERED FROM MR. SIMPSON'S
7 RESIDENCE, DO YOU RECALL GIVING THAT TO MR. YAMAUCHI FOR
8 FURTHER ANALYSIS?
9 A. YES, I DID.
10 Q. DID YOU DO THAT BEFORE YOU PUT IT INTO FROZEN
11 STORAGE?
12 A. YES, I DID.
13 Q. HOW DID YOU PACKAGE THAT GLOVE?
14 A. AT THE TIME THAT I GAVE IT TO MR. YAMAUCHI?
15 Q. WHEN YOU RECOVERED IT FROM THE CRIME SCENE.
16 A. I PLACED IT IN A PAPER BAG.
17 Q. DID YOU PLACE THE D.R. NUMBER ON THAT PAPER
18 BAG?
19 A. WHEN I GOT THE D.R., YES.
20 Q. WAS THAT THE D.R. NUMBER THAT YOU PLACED ON
21 THAT BAG -- IS THAT THE ONE THAT HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO THIS
22 CASE THAT YOU HAVE READ TO US PREVIOUSLY?
23 A. YES, IT IS.
24 Q. ON WHAT DATE DID YOU GIVE THAT GLOVE RECOVERED
25 FROM THE ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS TO MR. YAMAUCHI?
26 A. THAT WAS GIVEN TO MR. YAMAUCHI ON JUNE 14,
27 1994.
28 Q. DID YOU ALSO RECEIVE A BLOOD SAMPLE THAT WAS
398
1 REMOVED FROM THE DEFENDANT, THE POSSIBLE DEFENDANT
2 MR. SIMPSON, FROM DETECTIVE PHILLIP VANNATTER?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. AND WHAT DATE WAS IT THAT YOU RECEIVED IT FROM
5 HIM?
6 A. I RECEIVED THAT BLOOD SAMPLE ON JUNE 13, 1994.
7 Q. DID YOU PACKAGE IT IN SOME MANNER WHEN YOU
8 RECEIVED IT FROM HIM?
9 A. YES, I DID.
10 Q. HOW?
11 A. I PLACED IT IN A GRAY WHOLE BLOOD ENVELOPE.
12 Q. DID YOU CAUSE THE D.R. NUMBER FOR THIS CASE TO
13 BE PLACED ON THAT ENVELOPE?
14 A. YES, I DID.
15 Q. AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH IT AFTER THAT?
16 A. I GAVE THE SAMPLE TO MR. YAMAUCHI FOR TESTING.
17 Q. ON WHAT DATE?
18 A. ON, I BELIEVE, JUNE 14, 1994.
19 Q. DO YOU RECALL EXAMINING THE UPSTAIRS LOCATION
20 AT -- THE UPSTAIRS OF THE RESIDENCE AT THE LOCATION OF 360
21 ROCKINGHAM?
22 A. YES, I DID.
23 MS. CLARK: I THINK THIS IS THE LAST EXHIBIT WE WILL
24 BE MARKING.
25 MARK IT PEOPLE'S 33.
26 THE FOREPERSON: SO ORDERED.
27 (MARKED FOR I.D.: = EXHIBIT 33.)
28 Q. BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 33, SIR,
399
1 PHOTOGRAPHS -A THROUGH -F.
2 A. YES.
3 Q. IS THAT YOU IN PHOTOGRAPH -C?
4 A. YES, IT IS.
5 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IS BEING SHOWN IN EACH OF
6 THESE PHOTOGRAPHS.
7 A. IN PHOTOGRAPH -A, WE ARE SHOWING THAT THERE IS
8 A PRESUMPTIVE POSITIVE TEST NEXT TO THE CARD LABELED 14.
9 WE COLLECTED THAT STAIN IN THE MASTER
10 BATHROOM. I DID A PRESUMPTIVE TEST FOR BLOOD IN THE SINK
11 DRAIN AND IT CAME BACK INDICATING THE PRESENCE OF BLOOD IN
12 THE SINK DRAIN.
13 I ALSO DID A PRESUMPTIVE TEST IN THE SHOWER
14 DRAIN, AND THERE WAS ALSO A POSITIVE TEST INDICATING THE
15 PRESENCE OF BLOOD IN THE SHOWER DRAIN.
16 Q. WAS THERE ENOUGH BLOOD IN ANY OF THOSE
17 LOCATIONS FOR BLOOD TYPING?
18 A. THE STAIN THAT IS LABELED 14 IN PHOTOGRAPHS -B
19 AND -A WAS COLLECTED AND IT WAS SUBMITTED FOR ANALYSIS. I
20 DON'T KNOW THE RESULTS.
21 HOWEVER, THE OTHER TWO TESTS THAT WERE DONE IN
22 THE SINK AND IN THE DRAIN, THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH BLOOD THERE
23 TO COLLECT.
24 Q. SO THE BLOOD SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 32, PHOTOGRAPHS
25 -A AND -B, WAS SUFFICIENT FOR FURTHER TESTING; BUT THAT
26 SHOWN IN -C, -D, -E AND -F OF THAT EXHIBIT WAS NOT?
27 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
28 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "PRESUMPTIVE TESTING," CAN YOU
400
1 TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.
2 A. A PRESUMPTIVE TEST MEANS WE HAVE A TEST THAT IS
3 NOT CONCLUSIVE. THERE ARE OTHER COMPOUNDS OR SUBSTANCES
4 THAT MAY GIVE A FALSE POSITIVE.
5 HOWEVER, THEY ARE USUALLY FAIRLY RELIABLE. BUT
6 YOU CAN'T DEFINITELY SAY THAT SOMETHING IS BLOOD FROM THIS
7 TEST ALONE.
8 Q. SO IT'S A SCREENING TEST, BUT NOT A FINAL
9 CONCLUSION.
10 IS THAT RIGHT?
11 A. YES.
12 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
13 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
14 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
15 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
16 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
17
18 (SHORT PAUSE.)
19
20 MS. CLARK: MAY I ASK ONE FURTHER QUESTION?
21 Q. CAN YOU PLEASE IDENTIFY FOR US BY ITEM NUMBER
22 THE GLOVE RECOVERED FROM MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE.
23 A. YES.
24 THE GLOVE RECOVERED FROM MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE IS
25 ITEM NO. 9.
26 Q. AND THE BLOOD TAKEN FROM THE BLOOD TRAIL
27 LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODIES OF THE VICTIMS AT 875 SOUTH
28 BUNDY?
401
1 A. THOSE ARE ITEMS NO. 47 WITH PHOTO I.D. 112;
2 ITEM 48, WHICH IS PHOTO I.D. 113; ITEM NO. 49, WHICH IS
3 PHOTO I.D. 114; ITEM NO. 50, PHOTO I.D. 115; AND, ITEM
4 NO. 52, WHICH IS PHOTO I.D. NO. 117.
5 Q. AND THE BLOOD FROM THE FOYER OF THE SUSPECT'S
6 RESIDENCE AT 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE?
7 A. THE ITEM NUMBER OF THE RED STAIN IN THE FOYER
8 WAS ITEM NO. 12.
9 Q. THE BLOOD FROM THE DOOR HANDLE OF THE FORD
10 BRONCO?
11 A. ARE WE REFERRING TO THE BLOOD INTERIOR?
12 Q. THE BLOOD FROM THE DOOR HANDLE OF THE FORD
13 BRONCO.
14 A. INTERIOR OR EXTERIOR?
15 Q. OH, THERE WAS BOTH?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. WHICH ONE DID YOU SUBMIT TO MR. YAMAUCHI ON
18 JUNE 15?
19 A. THAT WAS THE INTERIOR DOOR HANDLE ONE.
20 Q. OKAY.
21 WHAT IS THAT ITEM NUMBER?
22 A. I HAVE AS TO MAKE A CORRECTION.
23 THAT WAS RECOVERED FROM THE INTERIOR DOOR, NOT
24 NECESSARILY THE HANDLE. IT WAS ON THE DRIVER WALL.
25 AND THAT WAS SUBMITTED TO YAMAUCHI ON JUNE 15.
26 Q. WHAT IS THE ITEM NUMBER?
27 A. THAT IS ITEM NO. 23.
28 Q. WERE THERE ITEM NUMBERS GIVEN FOR BLOOD TAKEN
402
1 FROM THE VICTIMS AT THE AUTOPSY?
2 A. YES, THEY WERE.
3 Q. WHAT WERE THOSE ITEM NUMBERS?
4 A. ITEM NUMBERS FROM THE BLOOD TAKEN AT THE
5 AUTOPSY WERE ITEM NO. 59, AND THAT WAS THE BLOOD LABELED
6 "NICOLE SIMPSON BROWN"; AND ITEM NO. 60 WAS A BLOOD VIAL
7 LABELED "RONALD GOLDMAN."
8 Q. DID YOU CAUSE AT ANY POINT THE D.R. NUMBER THAT
9 YOU PREVIOUSLY READ TO US THAT WAS ASSIGNED TO THIS CASE TO
10 BE MADE ON THE ENVELOPE CONTAINING THOSE BLOOD SAMPLES FROM
11 NICOLE SIMPSON AND RON GOLDMAN?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. THE BLOOD TAKEN FROM THE SUSPECT, MR. SIMPSON,
14 WAS A D.R. NUMBER AND ITEM NUMBER PLACED ON THAT?
15 A. YES, IT WAS.
16 THAT IS ITEM NUMBER -- IT WAS ASSIGNED ITEM
17 NO. 17.
18 Q. DID YOU CAUSE THE D.R. NUMBER THAT YOU HAVE
19 PREVIOUSLY READ TO US IN THIS CASE TO BE PLACED ON THAT AS
20 WELL?
21 A. YES.
22 Q. THEN THE ITEMS THAT YOU COLLECTED, ITEMS
23 NO. 23, 12, WERE THOSE BOTH TURNED OVER BY YOURSELF TO
24 MR. YAMAUCHI BEARING THE D.R. NUMBER FROM THIS CASE ON
25 JUNE 15?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. AND ITEMS NUMBERS 9, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52 AND
28 17 WERE TURNED OVER BY YOURSELF TO MR. YAMAUCHI ON JUNE 14?
403
1 A. YES.
2 Q. AND, AGAIN, ALL OF THOSE ITEMS WERE BEARING THE
3 D.R. NUMBER ASSIGNED TO THIS CASE YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY
4 READ?
5 A. YES.
6 MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
7 WE HAVE QUESTIONS FROM THE GRAND JURORS.
8 DO YOU WANT ME TO DO THEY OR DO THEY TOMORROW?
9 WE COULD COMPLETE THIS WITNESS TODAY OR --
10 THE FOREPERSON: I BELIEVE THE GRAND JURY IS IN
11 SUPPORT OF COMPLETING THE QUESTIONS.
12
13 (SHORT PAUSE.)
14
15 Q. BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU TEST ANY OF THE OTHER
16 DRAINS IN THE ROCKINGHAM HOUSE OTHER THAN THE ONES YOU HAVE
17 DESCRIBED TO US THUS FAR IN THE SHOWER AND THE BATHROOM?
18 A. NO, I DID NOT.
19 Q. WHY NOT?
20 A. THEY DID NOT APPEAR TO BE USED.
21 Q. THEY DID NOT APPEAR TO BE WET?
22 A. NOT NECESSARILY WET, BUT THEY DIDN'T APPEAR TO
23 BE DISTURBED.
24 Q. SO THEY DID NOT APPEAR TO YOU TO HAVE BEEN
25 RECENTLY USED?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. SO YOU CONFINED YOUR EXAMINATION TO THE AREA
28 THAT SEEMED TO BE RECENTLY IN USE?
404
1 A. YES.
2 Q. THAT WAS THE AREA OF THE MASTER BEDROOM?
3 A. YES. OR MASTER BATHROOM, YES.
4 Q. BATHROOM.
5 DID IT APPEAR TO YOU, SIR, THAT THE BLOOD DROPS
6 WERE TO THE LEFT OF THE FOOTPRINTS LEADING AWAY FROM THE
7 BODIES AT THE CRIME SCENE LOCATED AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
8 A. THEY DID APPEAR THAT WAY, YES.
9 Q. CAN YOU DETERMINE THE AGE OF BLOOD DROPS, SIR?
10 HOW RECENTLY THEY WERE LEFT?
11 A. IN A GENERAL SENSE, YES.
12 Q. AND TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.
13 A. I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY HOURS A BLOOD DROP IS
14 OLD; HOWEVER, I CAN TELL YOU ON THIS DAY, WHEN WE WERE AT
15 THE CRIME SCENE OF MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE IN THE MORNING,
16 THE BLOOD DROPS APPEARED TO BE FAIRLY FRESH. THEY HAD A
17 REDDISH TINGE TO THEM.
18 HOWEVER, BY THE END OF THE DAY WHEN WE RETURNED
19 AROUND 4:00 O'CLOCK OR 5:00 O'CLOCK, AROUND THERE, THE SAME
20 BLOOD DROPS WERE A DARK BROWN.
21 Q. DID YOU FORM ANY -- WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU
22 WERE COLLECTING THOSE BLOOD DROPS?
23 A. THE BLOOD DROPS AT MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE WERE
24 RECOVERED IN THE EARLY MORNING, AROUND 8:00 O'CLOCK.
25 Q. AND WHAT ABOUT THE BLOOD DROPS AT THE CRIME
26 SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE?
27 A. THOSE WERE COLLECTED BETWEEN THE HOURS OF
28 11:00 O'CLOCK AND 4:00 O'CLOCK.
405
1 Q. SO THOSE WERE COLLECTED AFTERWARDS, AFTER THE
2 BLOOD DROPS WERE COLLECTED AT MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE?
3 A. YES.
4 EXCEPT FOR THE BLOOD STAINS THAT WERE COLLECTED
5 INSIDE OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE. THOSE WERE COLLECTED IN THE
6 LATE AFTERNOON.
7 Q. WERE THOSE THE LAST TO BE COLLECTED?
8 A. ON THAT DAY, YES.
9 Q. DID YOU RESPOND TO THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH
10 BUNDY FIRST BEFORE GOING TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE?
11 A. NO.
12 Q. YOU WENT TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE FIRST?
13 A. YES.
14 Q. SO THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THE BLOOD DROPS AT
15 ALONG WHAT WE HAVE TERMED THE ESCAPE ROUTE AT 875 SOUTH
16 BUNDY, WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THOSE?
17 A. WE ARRIVED AT THAT SCENE, OR I ARRIVED AT THAT
18 SCENE AT 10:15, AND I ESTIMATE THE TIME THAT I FIRST SAW
19 THE ESCAPE ROUTE BLOOD STAINS WAS AT APPROXIMATELY 11,
20 11:00 O'CLOCK.
21 Q. WHICH WERE THE BLOOD DROPS THAT YOU SAID LOOKED
22 MORE BROWN OR DARK RED THAN WHEN YOU SAW THEM THE FIRST
23 TIME WHEN THEY APPEARED MORE LIGHT RED?
24 A. THOSE ARE THE STAINS AT MR. SIMPSON'S
25 RESIDENCE, WHICH WERE ITEM -- TO BE EXACT, THAT ITEM WAS
26 ITEM NO. 8.
27 Q. ITEM NO. 8.
28 THAT WAS IN THE OUTSIDE WALK WHERE YOU HAVE
406
1 IDENTIFIED IT EARLIER?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. DID YOU RECORD THE SHOE PRINT PATTERN THAT YOU
4 OBSERVED ALONG THE ESCAPE ROUTE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY IN SOME
5 MANNER?
6 A. YES.
7 THOSE SHOE PRINTS WERE PHOTOGRAPHED BY THE
8 PHOTOGRAPHER IN -- WITH A TRIPOD AT A PERPENDICULAR ANGLE
9 TO THE SHOE PRINTS.
10 Q. THAT IS FOR THE PURPOSE OF ATTEMPTING TO
11 IDENTIFY THE SHOES, IF THEY ARE EVER FOUND?
12 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
13 Q. DO YOU RECALL RETRIEVING A HAT OR OTHER OBJECT
14 ON THE DRIVER'S FLOOR MAT AREA IN THE FORD BRONCO?
15 A. YES, I DO.
16 Q. WHAT KIND OF HAT WAS THAT?
17 A. THAT WAS ONE OF THOSE -- I DON'T KNOW HOW TO
18 REALLY DESCRIBE IT.
19 IT'S ONE OF THOSE ENGLISH DRIVING STYLE TYPE
20 HATS. IT'S A PLAID TYPE HAT.
21 Q. WOOL?
22 A. YES, IT RESEMBLED WOOL TO ME.
23 Q. DID IT HAVE LIKE A LITTLE BRIM THAT WOULD SNAP
24 TO THE CAP ITSELF?
25 A. I BELIEVE SO, YES.
26 Q. SO IT WOULD FIT KIND OF LIKE A LITTLE BERET?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. IF THE POLICE FOUND THAT FORD BRONCO WITH THE
407
1 HAT IN THE DRIVER'S FEET AREA WHERE THE DRIVE WOULD PUT HIS
2 FEET, WOULD THEY LEAVE IT THERE FOR YOU TO FIND IN THE SAME
3 MANNER IN WHICH THEY SAW IT?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. SO WHEN THE POLICE OBSERVE ITEMS AT A CRIME
6 SCENE, THEY OBSERVE THEM, BUT THEY DO NOT TOUCH OR REMOVE
7 THEM UNTIL YOU HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO SEE THEM AND THEN YOU
8 REMOVE THEM?
9 A. THAT WAS WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE.
10 Q. IS THAT WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN?
11 A. YES.
12 Q. SO IT'S STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE IN THE WAY
13 THEY SHOULD PROCEED, AND DID IN THIS CASE, IS TO OBSERVE
14 AND ALLOW YOU TO RECOVER?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. DID YOU EXAMINE THE GLOVES RECOVERED FROM THE
17 CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THE HOME BY MR. SIMPSON
18 AT 360 ROCKINGHAM FOR CUTS OR NICKS?
19 A. YES, I DID.
20 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE GLOVE RECOVERED FROM THE
21 ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS, DID YOU SEE ANY NICKS OR CUTS ON THAT
22 GLOVE, THAT'S ITEM NO. 37 -- NO. EXCUSE ME.
23 DID I SAY, "ROCKINGHAM"?
24 ITEM NO. 9.
25 A. I'M GOING STRICTLY FROM MEMORY HERE.
26 Q. YOU DON'T RECALL -- YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PERSONAL
27 KNOWLEDGE AT THIS TIME?
28 A. NO.
408
1 I DON'T HAVE ANY NOTES REGARDING WHICH GLOVE
2 HAS WHICH NICKS.
3 I DO KNOW ONE GLOVE DOES AND ONE GLOVE DOESN'T,
4 BUT I DON'T WANT TO GIVE THE WRONG INFORMATION HERE.
5 Q. THEN DON'T.
6 BUT DO YOU RECALL SEEING NICKS IN ONE OF THE
7 GLOVES?
8 A. YES.
9 Q. WAS THE BLOOD BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS ANALYZED,
10 EITHER THE BLOOD ON THE FLOOR, ON THE GROUND BETWEEN THE
11 TWO VICTIMS ANALYZED OR COLLECTED FOR ANALYSIS?
12 A. WE DID COLLECT OR TRY TO COLLECT BLOOD, THAT
13 BLOOD, AND IT WAS ANALYZED, YES.
14 Q. NOW, THE BLOOD BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS, CAN YOU
15 DESCRIBE IT FOR US.
16 WAS IT A POOL OF BLOOD? WAS IT A TRICKLE? WAS
17 THERE A TRAIL OF IT LEADING FROM ONE TO THE ANOTHER?
18 A. THERE APPEARED TO BE ONE -- ONE AREA THAT HAD A
19 GREAT DEAL OF BLOOD THAT HAD BEEN DRAINED FROM THE FEMALE
20 VICTIM. AND BY THE TIME I GOT TO THE CRIME SCENE, THEY HAD
21 SPREAD A BLANKET OUT AND THE BLANKET WAS BLOOD SOAKED
22 ALSO.
23 THE AREA WHERE THE MALE VICTIM WAS HAD POOLS OF
24 BLOOD IN THE DIRT. THAT'S AS BEST AS I CAN DESCRIBE IT.
25 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE A TRAIL OF BLOOD BETWEEN THEM,
26 TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, AT THIS TIME?
27 A. NOT REALLY, NO.
28 Q. WAS THERE ANY BLOOD ON THE STEERING WHEEL OF
409
1 THE BRONCO?
2 A. YES, THERE WAS.
3 Q. WAS THAT COLLECTED, SIR?
4 A. YES, IT WAS.
5 Q. DID YOU PERFORM A PRESUMPTIVE TEST FOR BLOOD ON
6 THAT?
7 A. YES, I DID.
8 Q. WHAT WAS THE RESULT?
9 A. IT CAME BACK POSITIVE FOR THE PRESENCE OF
10 BLOOD.
11 Q. THAT PRESUMPTIVE TEST YOU DESCRIBED TO US, IS
12 THAT ACCEPTED AS RELIABLE IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY, SIR?
13 A. IT'S ACCEPTED AS A PRESUMPTIVE TEST AND IT IS
14 FAIRLY RELIABLE, YES.
15 Q. AS A PRESUMPTIVE TEST, IS IT ACCEPTED IN THE
16 SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AS A RELIABLE PRESUMPTIVE TEST?
17 A. YES IT IS.
18 MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
19 THE FOREPERSON: THERE BEING NO ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS,
20 MR. FUNG BEFORE YOU LEAVE, PLEASE LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY TO
21 WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU NOW.
22 YOU ARE ADMONISHED NOT TO REVEAL TO ANY OTHER
23 PERSON, EXCEPT AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, WHAT QUESTIONS WERE
24 ASKED OF YOU AND WHAT RESPONSES WERE GIVEN.
25 IN ADDITION, YOU ARE NOT TO REVEAL ANY OTHER
26 MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATURE OR SUBJECT OF THE
27 INVESTIGATION WHICH YOU LEARNED DURING YOUR APPEARANCE
28 HERE, UNLESS AND UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A TRANSCRIPT OF THESE
410
1 PROCEEDINGS IS MADE PUBLIC.
2 I WISH TO ADVISE YOU ALSO THAT A VIOLATION OF
3 THIS ORDER CAN BE THE BASIS OF A CONTEMPT CHARGE AGAINST
4 YOU.
5 DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
6 THE WITNESS: YES, I DO.
7 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
8 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
9 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
10
11 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
12 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
13
14 THE FOREPERSON: WE ARE IN RECESS IN THIS MATTER
15 UNTIL TOMORROW.
16 THE GRAND JURORS NEED TO REPORT TO THE HEARING
17 ROOM AT 9:00 O'CLOCK.
18 THE GRAND JURORS HAVE BEEN ADMONISHED REGARDING
19 DISCUSSION OF THE CASE.
20 PLEASE REMEMBER AND FOLLOW THE ADMONISHMENT.
21
22 (EVENING ADJOURNMENT TAKEN.)
23 -O0O-
24
25
26
27
28
411
1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, JUNE 23, 1994
2 11:10 A.M.
3 -O0O-
4
5 (AT THE BEGINNING OF THESE PROCEEDINGS,
6 20 GRAND JURORS WERE PRESENT.)
7
8 THE FOREPERSON: THIS HEARING IS NOW IN SESSION.
9 WE ARE CONTINUING THIS MORNING WITH:
10 "NAME OF POSSIBLE DEFENDANT:
11 "ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON."
12 THE DEPUTIES DISTRICT ATTORNEY ARE MARCIA CLARK
13 AND DAVID CONN.
14 MADAME SECRETARY?
15
16 (ROLL CALLED.)
17
18 THE SECRETARY: LET THE RECORD REFLECT THERE ARE
19 TWENTY GRAND JURORS PRESENT.
20 THE FOREPERSON: GOOD MORNING, DEPUTIES DISTRICT
21 ATTORNEY MARCIA CLARK AND DAVID CONN.
22 MS. CLARK: GOOD MORNING, MADAME FOREMAN.
23 THE FOREPERSON: YOU MAY PROCEED.
24 MS. CLARK: MAY I BEGIN BY THANKING YOU VERY MUCH,
25 THE MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY THAT PERMITTED ME TO GO
26 OVERTIME LAST NIGHT. I APPRECIATE THEIR GRACIOUSNESS IN
27 ALLOWING ME TO IMPINGE ON THEIR SCHEDULES TO COMPLETE THAT
28 WITNESS.
412
1 THEY HAVE BEEN VERY GRACIOUS AND FORGIVING TO
2 US THROUGHOUT THESE PROCEEDINGS, AND I WISH TO EXTEND MY
3 DEEPEST APPRECIATION FOR THAT.
4 THE PEOPLE RECALL JILL SHIVELY.
5 THE FOREPERSON: GOOD MORNING, MISS SHIVELY.
6 MISS SHIVELY, YOU WILL RECALL THAT YOU HAVE
7 BEEN SWORN AND ARE -- ARE PREVIOUSLY SWORN AND ARE STILL
8 UNDER OATH.
9 THE WITNESS: YES. YES, I DO.
10 THE FOREPERSON: IF YOU WOULD PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
11 FOR THE RECORD.
12 THE WITNESS: JILL SHIVELY.
13 S-H-I-V-E-L-Y.
14 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
15 YOU MAY PROCEED.
16
17 JILL SHIVELY,
18 RECALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND
19 JURY, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY DULY SWORN, RESUMED THE STAND
20 AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:
21
22 E X A M I N A T I O N (RESUMED)
23 BY MS. CLARK:
24 Q. MISS SHIVELY, YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY APPEARED AND
25 TESTIFIED BEFORE THIS GRAND JURY ON JUNE 21, WHICH WAS
26 TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK.
27 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
28 Q. NOW, CONCERNING THE MATTER BEFORE -- THE MATTER
413
1 TO WHICH YOU TESTIFIED ON JUNE 21, DID YOU FIRST CONTACT
2 THE POLICE CONCERNING YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THESE EVENTS ON
3 JUNE 14?
4 A. YES, I DID.
5 Q. AND YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY THE POLICE ON THE
6 FOLLOWING DAY, JUNE THE 15TH?
7 A. I THINK, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, I WAS
8 INTERVIEWED RIGHT AWAY.
9 I THINK IT WAS THE NEXT DAY.
10 Q. AND THEN YOU WERE SUBPOENAED TO APPEAR BEFORE
11 THIS GRAND JURY ON SATURDAY, JUNE 18?
12 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
13 Q. AND THEN YOU HAD AN INTERVIEW -- YOU WERE
14 INTERVIEWED BY A TELEVISION NEWS PROGRAM CALLED "HARD COPY"
15 CONCERNING THIS SUBJECT MATTER TO WHICH YOU LATER TESTIFIED
16 BEFORE THIS GRAND JURY AND DURING WHICH YOU SHOWED YOUR
17 SUBPOENA ON CAMERA?
18 A. THAT'S CORRECT; I DID.
19 Q. AND THAT INTERVIEW WAS CONDUCTED ON MONDAY,
20 JUNE THE 20TH, ON THE AFTERNOON OF THAT DAY?
21 A. YES, IT WAS.
22 Q. AND YOU WERE PROMISED PAYMENT BY "HARD COPY"
23 FOR THAT INTERVIEW OF $5,000.
24 IS THAT RIGHT?
25 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
26 Q. ON THE NIGHT AFTER YOUR INTERVIEW -- THAT IS,
27 YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY "HARD COPY" ON MONDAY AFTERNOON,
28 JUNE 20.
414
1 FOLLOWING THAT INTERVIEW, YOU CONTACTED A
2 DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY WITH WHOM YOU WERE ACQUAINTED --
3 NOT MYSELF OR MR. CONN -- AND YOU INDICATED TO HIM THAT YOU
4 WERE CONCERNED AND NERVOUS ABOUT ALL THE MEDIA CONTACTS
5 MADE TO YOU.
6 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
7 Q. ON TUESDAY MORNING, JUNE 21, THE MORNING OF
8 YOUR TESTIMONY WHEN YOU APPEARED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THIS
9 GRAND JURY, YOU MET WITH MYSELF AND MR. CONN FOR THE VERY
10 FIRST TIME.
11 IS THAT CORRECT?
12 A. THAT'S TRUE.
13 Q. PRIOR TO THAT MORNING, WE HAD HAD NEITHER PHONE
14 CONTACT OR ANY CONTACT AT ALL.
15 IS THAT CORRECT?
16 A. THAT'S TRUE.
17 Q. AND JUST BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE THIS GRAND
18 JURY ON JUNE 21, MR. CONN AND MYSELF INTERVIEWED YOU IN THE
19 CONFERENCE ROOM NEAR TO THIS JURY ROOM.
20 IS THAT CORRECT?
21 A. THAT'S TRUE.
22 Q. DURING THE COURSE OF THAT INTERVIEW, YOU WERE
23 ASKED BY MR. CONN WHETHER YOU HAD DISCUSSED THE SUBJECT
24 MATTER OF YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS CASE OR THE STATEMENT
25 THAT YOU HAD GIVEN TO THE POLICE WITH ANYONE ELSE.
26 A. THAT'S TRUE.
27 Q. AND YOU TOLD HIM AT THAT TIME, YOU TOLD MYSELF,
28 ALSO, THAT YOU HAD ONLY SPOKEN TO YOUR MOTHER?
415
1 A. THAT'S TRUE.
2 Q. ON JUNE 22, WHICH WAS THE DAY AFTER YOUR
3 INTERVIEW WITH "HARD COPY" -- EXCUSE ME -- ON JUNE 22, THE
4 DAY AFTER YOUR INTERVIEW WITH "HARD COPY" WAS HEARD ON
5 T.V., WE HAD YOU BROUGHT BACK TO THE OFFICE OF THE DISTRICT
6 ATTORNEY FOR AN INTERVIEW WITH US.
7 IS THAT CORRECT?
8 A. THAT'S TRUE.
9 Q. IT WAS ON THE EVENING OF YOUR TESTIMONY BEFORE
10 THIS GRAND JURY TUESDAY, THAT WAS JUNE 21, THAT THE "HARD
11 COPY" INTERVIEW WITH YOU CONCERNING YOUR TESTIMONY BEFORE
12 THIS JURY WAS AIRED.
13 IS THAT CORRECT?
14 A. THAT'S TRUE.
15 Q. THE VERY NEXT DAY, JUNE 22, YOU WERE BROUGHT
16 INTO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND YOU SPOKE WITH
17 MYSELF AND MR. CONN.
18 IS THAT CORRECT?
19 A. THAT'S TRUE.
20 Q. AND WHEN MR. CONN ASKED YOU WHY YOU HAD TOLD US
21 THAT YOU HAD ONLY SPOKEN TO YOUR MOTHER ABOUT THE SUBJECT
22 MATTER OF YOUR TESTIMONY WHEN, IN FACT, YOU HAD ALSO SPOKEN
23 TO AT LEAST "HARD COPY," YOU REPLIED THAT YOU DIDN'T
24 REALIZE THAT HE MEANT ANYONE OTHER THAN FAMILY AND FRIENDS.
25 IS THAT CORRECT?
26 A. I -- THAT'S CORRECT; THAT'S WHAT I SAID.
27 AND I AM -- I WAS NERVOUS AND HADN'T SLEPT ALL
28 WEEK AND WASN'T REALLY THINKING.
416
1 I WASN'T TRYING TO HIDE ANYTHING BECAUSE I KNEW
2 IT WAS BEING AIRED THE NEXT DAY AND I ASSUMED I WOULD BE
3 INVOLVED IN THE TRIAL, SO I WASN'T DOING ANYTHING TO BREAK
4 THE TRUST.
5 I REALLY DIDN'T THINK IT WAS WRONG. I'M SORRY
6 NOW. BUT I WASN'T TRYING TO HIDE ANYTHING. I HADN'T SLEPT
7 ALL WEEK AND I WAS NERVOUS.
8 I DON'T KNOW. I -- I DID TALK TO THEM AND, YOU
9 KNOW, I KNEW IT WOULD BE AIRED THE NEXT DAY SO I COULDN'T
10 HIDE IT FROM YOU.
11 Q. BUT IT IS A FACT WHEN YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY
12 MYSELF AND MR. CONN ON THE MORNING OF YOUR TESTIMONY THAT
13 YOU INDICATED YOU HAD ONLY SPOKEN TO YOUR MOTHER ABOUT THE
14 EVENTS OF THE NIGHT OF JUNE 12, 1994.
15 IS THAT CORRECT?
16 A. THAT IS TRUE.
17 AND I MISINTERPRETED THE QUESTION, BECAUSE ALL
18 THE TIME PEOPLE WOULD ASK YOU, "WHO DID YOU SPEAK TO
19 FIRST?" AND THAT'S WHO I HAD SPOKEN TO FIRST.
20 I DON'T REMEMBER MUCH. I WAS NERVOUS ABOUT
21 GOING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY AND THAT'S ALL I REMEMBER.
22 Q. IN ANY CASE, MS. SHIVELY, WHEN MR. CONN ASKED
23 YOU WHO YOU HAD SPOKEN TO ABOUT THIS CASE, ABOUT YOUR
24 INVOLVEMENT IN IT, YOU DID NOT TELL US THAT YOU HAD GIVEN
25 AN INTERVIEWED ALREADY AT THAT POINT TO "HARD COPY."
26 IS THAT CORRECT?
27 A. THAT'S TRUE; I DID NOT.
28 Q. AND IN THE COURSE OF OUR DISCUSSION, OUR
417
1 INTERVIEW WITH YOU WOULD FOLLOWING THE AIRING OF THE "HARD
2 COPY" BROADCAST, THAT IS THE FOLLOWING MORNING AFTER THAT
3 BROADCAST WAS AIRED --
4 A. RIGHT.
5 Q. -- YOU FURTHER INDICATED TO US THAT YOU HAD
6 ALSO SPOKEN TO A COUPLE OF YOUR FRIENDS AND CO-WORKERS
7 ABOUT THE SUBJECT MATTER OF YOUR TESTIMONY BEFORE WE SPOKE
8 TO YOU FOR THE FIRST TIME ON TUESDAY, JUNE THE 21ST.
9 ISN'T THAT TRUE?
10 A. RIGHT.
11 Q. AND YOU ALSO INDICATED TO US THAT AFTER YOU
12 RECEIVED YOUR GRAND JURY SUBPOENA ON MONDAY WHEN YOU WENT
13 TO WORK, YOU PUT IT ON YOUR BOSS' DESK, WHERE IT WAS IN
14 FULL VIEW OF YOUR FELLOW CO-WORKERS.
15 ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
16 A. THAT'S TRUE.
17 Q. AND YOU HAD SPOKEN TO THOSE FRIENDS AND
18 CO-WORKERS AND DISPLAYED YOUR GRAND JURY SUBPOENA AND GIVEN
19 AN INTERVIEW TO "HARD COPY" BEFORE YOU EVER SAW MYSELF OR
20 MR. CONN ON JUNE THE 21ST, 1994?
21 A. RIGHT; THAT'S TRUE.
22 I TALKED TO HIM ON MONDAY, ON THE MONDAY, THE
23 20TH.
24 Q. AND YOU SPOKE TO US FOR THE FIRST TIME ON
25 JUNE 21?
26 A. THAT'S CORRECT; RIGHT.
27 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
28 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
418
1 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
2 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
3 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
4
5 (SHORT PAUSE.)
6
7 MR. WHITE: THERE WILL BE NO QUESTIONS.
8 THE FOREPERSON: THERE WILL BE NO QUESTIONS.
9 THANK YOU.
10 MISS SHIVELY, YOU WILL RECALL THAT YOU HAVE
11 PREVIOUSLY BEEN ADMONISHED REGARDING THE SECRECY OF THESE
12 PROCEEDINGS AND MUST HEED THAT ADMONISHMENT.
13 THE WITNESS: OKAY.
14 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
15 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
16 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
17
18 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
19 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
20
21 MS. CLARK: MADAME FOREMAN, IF I MAY ADDRESS THE
22 GRAND JURY BRIEFLY AT THIS TIME.
23 THE COURT: YOU MAY DO SO.
24 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
25 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THIS JURY, BECAUSE IT
26 IS OUR DUTY AS PROSECUTORS TO PRESENT ONLY THAT EVIDENCE IN
27 WHICH WE ARE 110 PERCENT CONFIDENT AS TO ITS TRUTHFULNESS
28 AND RELIABILITY, I I MUST NOW ASK YOU TO COMPLETELY
419
1 DISREGARD THE STATEMENTS GIVEN AND THE TESTIMONY GIVEN BY
2 JILL SHIVELY IN THIS CASE.
3 ALTHOUGH HER FAILURE TO TRUTHFULLY ANSWER A
4 QUESTION POSED TO HER DURING AN INTERVIEW CANNOT SUBJECT
5 HER TO PERJURY CHARGES GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE SUSPECT DOES
6 NOT HAVE AN ATTORNEY PRESENT TO CROSS-EXAMINE HER AT THIS
7 PROCEEDING AND THAT AT THIS POINT IN TIME WE HAVE NO WAY TO
8 INDEPENDENTLY CORROBORATE HER TESTIMONY, I CANNOT ALLOW HER
9 TO BE PART OF THIS CASE AT THIS TIME NOW THAT SHE HAS
10 PROVEN TO BE UNTRUTHFUL AS TO ANY ASPECT OF HER STATEMENT.
11 PLEASE COMPLETELY DISREGARD THE TESTIMONY OF
12 JILL SHIVELY. YOU MUST NOT ALLOW IT TO BE ANY PART OF YOUR
13 CONSIDERATIONS OR DELIBERATIONS IN THIS MATTER.
14 IF ANY OF YOU FEEL THAT YOU CANNOT DO SO, I
15 ASK YOU NOW, PLEASE, IN FAIRNESS AND IN JUSTICE, EXCUSE
16 YOURSELF FROM ANY FURTHER INVOLVEMENT IN THIS CASE.
17 MADAME FOREMAN, I NOTICE THAT NO ONE HAS
18 EXCUSED THEMSELVES.
19 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
20 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
21 THE FOREPERSON: YOU MAY PROCEED.
22 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
23 THE PEOPLE CALL COLLIN YAMAUCHI.
24 THE FOREPERSON: COLON YAMAUCHI, PLEASE RAISE YOUR
25 RIGHT HAND.
26 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
27 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
28 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
420
1 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
2 THE WITNESS: YES.
3 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
4 MR. YAMAUCHI, PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR FULL
5 NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE.
6 THE WITNESS: COLLIN YAMAUCHI.
7 FIRST NAME C-O-L-L-I-N, LAST NAME
8 Y-A-M-A-U-C-H-I.
9 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
10 YOU MAY PROCEED.
11 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
12
13 COLLIN YAMAUCHI,
14 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
15 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
16
17 E X A M I N A T I O N
18 BY MS. CLARK:
19 Q. MR. YAMAUCHI, WILL YOU PLEASE TELL THIS JURY
20 WHAT IT IS YOU DO FOR A LIVING.
21 A. I'M A CRIMINALIST FOR THE SCIENTIFIC
22 INVESTIGATION DIVISION OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE
23 DEPARTMENT.
24 BASICALLY A CRIMINALIST'S DUTIES ARE INVOLVED
25 WITH THE COLLECTION AND PRESERVATION AND PROCESSING OF
26 PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AND EVENTUAL ANALYSIS.
27 Q. AND CAN YOU TELL US WHAT EXACTLY IT IS YOU DO.
28 A. MY SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT, AS FAR AS ANALYSIS IS
421
1 CONCERNED, I'M ASSIGNED TO THE SEROLOGY UNIT.
2 Q. NOW, WHAT KIND OF TRAINING AND BACKGROUND DO
3 YOU HAVE THAT QUALIFIES YOU TO DO THAT JOB?
4 A. WELL, I HAVE A BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN BIOLOGY
5 FROM CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY LONG BEACH.
6 UPON GRADUATION, I WORKED FOR 3-1/2 YEARS AS A
7 A QUALITY CONTROL CHEMIST FOR I.C.N. RADIO CHEMICALS,
8 INVOLVED WITH SOME MOLECULAR BIOLOGY AND OTHER VARIOUS
9 LABORATORY PROCEDURES.
10 SINCE WORKING FOR L.A.P.D., I HAVE SPENT THE
11 FIRST 4 MONTHS FAMILIARIZING MYSELF WITH THEIR PROTOCOLS
12 AND PROCEDURES.
13 AND THROUGHOUT MY CAREER AT L.A.P.D., I HAVE
14 BEEN TRAINED IN VARIOUS COURSES FROM THE CALIFORNIA
15 CRIMINALISTICS INSTITUTE IN SACRAMENTO, WHICH IS A PART OF
16 THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, IN VARIOUS CLASSES THAT ARE
17 DIRECTLY RELATED TO SEROLOGY.
18 I HAVE TAKEN A ROCHE, R-O-C-H-E, MOLECULAR
19 CLASS ON P.C.R. UP IN ALAMEDA, CALIFORNIA.
20 Q. CAN YOU PLEASE PAUSE FOR A MOMENT AND EXPLAIN
21 TO THE MEMBERS FOR THIS JURY WHAT YOU MEAN BY "P.C.R."
22 A. P.C.R. STANDS FOR POLYMERASE CHAIN REACTION.
23 IT'S A TECHNIQUE WHICH ALLOWS SMALLER
24 QUANTITIES OF D.N.A. TO BE AMPLIFIED INTO QUANTITIES THAT
25 ARE LARGE ENOUGH TO ANALYZE.
26 Q. SO WITH THE P.C.R. TEST, IF YOU HAVE A SMALL
27 AMOUNT OF BLOOD, THAT ORDINARILY WOULD NOT BE SUFFICIENT TO
28 ALLOW YOU TO TEST FOR D.N.A.
422
1 THIS METHOD ALLOWS YOU BECAUSE IT AMPLIFIES
2 WHAT YOU HAVE TO TEST THE D.N.A.
3 A. YES, IT'S POSSIBLE.
4 Q. SO IT IS A KIND OF D.N.A. TEST?
5 A. YES, IT IS.
6 Q. I'M SORRY.
7 CONTINUE, PLEASE.
8 YOU WERE TRAINED IN P.C.R.
9 A. TRAINED IN P.C.R., AND I ALSO HAD A MOLECULAR
10 BIOLOGY CLASS THAT I WENT TO AT B.R.L., BETHESDA RESEARCH
11 LABORATORIES, AND THAT WAS PART OF MY TRAINING WHEN I WAS
12 AT I.C.N. RADIO CHEMICALS.
13 THAT WOULD BE IT.
14 Q. HAVE YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFIED AS AN EXPERT IN
15 THE FIELD OF SEROLOGY AND SEROLOGICAL ANALYSIS --
16 A. YES.
17 Q. -- IN SUPERIOR AND MUNICIPAL COURT?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. AND FOUND TO BE QUALIFIED BY THE COURT TO
20 TESTIFY?
21 A. YES.
22 Q. AND WERE YOU ASSIGNED AS THE ANALYST, THE
23 SEROLOGIST, TO DO THE BLOOD WORK OR THE BLOOD ANALYSIS IN
24 THIS PARTICULAR CASE?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. NOW, EACH CASE THAT YOU WORK ON FOR THE
27 LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS WHAT IS KNOWN AS A D.R.
28 NUMBER.
423
1 A. YES.
2 Q. AND DO YOUR REPORTS BEAR -- WHEN YOU CONDUCT
3 ANALYSIS OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, DOES EACH REPORT THAT YOU
4 PREPARE CONCERNING YOUR CONCLUSIONS BEAR THAT D.R. NUMBER?
5 A. YES.
6 Q. DO THOSE REPORTS THAT YOU PREPARED IN THIS CASE
7 ALSO BEAR THAT D.R. NUMBER?
8 A. YES.
9 Q. CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US IF YOU RECALL FROM
10 MEMORY THE D.R. NUMBER THAT WAS ASSIGNED TO THIS CASE THAT
11 WAS SHOWN ON THE EVIDENCE YOU ANALYZED IN CONNECTION WITH
12 YOUR WORK IN THIS CASE.
13 A. 94-08-17431, I BELIEVE, FROM MEMORY.
14 Q. NOW, CONCERNING ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU
15 ANALYZED UNDER THAT D.R. NUMBER, I'M GOING TO BE DIRECTING
16 YOUR ATTENTION TO SPECIFIC ITEM NUMBERS.
17 DOES EACH ITEM THAT YOU ANALYZE OR EXAMINE HAVE
18 AN ITEM NUMBER ASSIGNED TO IT?
19 A. YES, IT DOES.
20 Q. AND IS THAT ITEM NUMBER ALREADY ASSIGNED AT THE
21 TIME IT'S GIVEN TO YOU FOR ANALYSIS?
22 A. GENERALLY SPEAKING, YES.
23 IN SOME INSTANCES WHERE EXPEDIENCY IS IN
24 ISSUE, THEN THAT PART MIGHT BE CIRCUMVENTED AND THE CHAIN
25 WOULD GO DIRECTLY BETWEEN MYSELF AND THE CRIMINALIST OR
26 OFFICER THAT COLLECTED THE EVIDENCE.
27 Q. LET ME DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE ITEM
28 NO. 59, DESCRIBED AS THE BLOOD OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.
424
1 A. YES.
2 Q. AND ITEM NO. 60 DESCRIBED AS THE BLOOD OF
3 RONALD GOLDMAN.
4 A. YES.
5 Q. DID YOU RECEIVE THOSE ITEMS FROM DETECTIVE
6 PHILLIP VANNATTER ON JUNE 15, 1994.
7 A. YES.
8 Q. DO THOSE ITEMS ALSO BEAR A CORONER'S CASE
9 NUMBER?
10 A. YES, THEY DO.
11 Q. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT CORNERS CASE NUMBER FROM
12 MEMORY?
13 A. NO.
14 Q. IS IT REFLECTED IN YOUR NOTES?
15 A. IT'S ON MY REPORT.
16 Q. WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AS TO THE
17 CORONER'S CASE NUMBER ASSIGNED TO EACH OF THOSE ITEMS, IF
18 YOU WERE TO LOOK AT YOUR REPORT?
19 A. YES.
20 Q. PLEASE DO SO.
21 A. FOR BROWN SIMPSON, NICOLE, CORONER'S CASE
22 NO. 94-05136.
23 Q. THAT WAS ITEM NO. 59?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. AS TO ITEM NO. 60, THE BLOOD OF RONALD
26 GOLDMAN --
27 A. UH-HUH.
28 Q. -- WAS THERE ANOTHER CORONER'S NUMBER FOR THAT
425
1 ONE, AS WELL?
2 A. YES.
3 GOLDMAN, RONALD, 94-05135.
4 Q. NOW, WHAT SORT OF TEST DID YOU PERFORM ON THESE
5 BLOOD SAMPLES?
6 A. P.C.R., H.L.A., D.Q. ALPHA.
7 Q. CAN YOU TELL THE MEMBERS OF THIS JURY WHAT THAT
8 IS.
9 A. OKAY.
10 WE WENT OVER THE P.C.R. SECTION, AND THAT STILL
11 STANDS AND REMAINS THE SAME, AS FAR AS AMPLIFYING D.N.A.
12 AS FAR AS THE H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA, IN ORDER TO
13 GIVE A GOOD EXPLANATION, I'M GOING TO START FROM SOMETHING
14 WE ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH.
15 WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT EYE COLORS. SOME PEOPLE
16 ARE BORN WITH BROWN EYES, BLUE EYES, AND EVEN SOME HAVE
17 GREEN EYES.
18 NOW, THESE ARE ALL DUE TO GENETIC TRAITS.
19 BASICALLY, THEY ARE OBVIOUS TO US ALL AND WE CAN SEE THEM.
20 BUT THERE ARE OTHER CASES IN SUBSTANCES SUCH AS
21 BLOOD WHERE IT IS NOT OBVIOUS VISUALLY.
22 BUT ONE THING WE ARE FAMILIAR WITH WOULD BE
23 SOMETHING LIKE THE A.B.O. SYSTEM. EVERY ONE OF US IS
24 PRETTY MUCH FAMILIAR WITH BLOOD TYPE.
25 IN THAT SYSTEM, THERE ARE FOUR TYPES:
26 TYPE "A," TYPE "B," TYPE "O" AND TYPE "A.B."
27 NOW, ANOTHER BLOOD TYPING SYSTEM WOULD BE
28 H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA. AND, LIKE THE A.B.O. SYSTEM, IT HAS
426
1 VARIOUS TYPES.
2 IN THE PARTICULAR TESTS THAT I DO, H.L.A. D.Q.
3 ALPHA HAS TWENTY-ONE DIFFERENT TYPES.
4 THE DIFFERENCE THERE, AS FAR AS FORENSICS IS
5 CONCERNED, HAVING TWENTY-ONE DIFFERENT TYPES ALLOWS FOR A
6 BETTER DISCRIMINATION FACTOR AS FAR AS CATEGORIZING
7 DIFFERENT PEOPLE'S BLOODS AND, IN THIS CASE, STAINS.
8 Q. WOULD YOU SAY, THEN, THE DISCRIMINATION OF
9 P.C.R., H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA TESTING IS ABOUT FIVE TIMES MORE
10 DISCRIMINATING THAN THE A.B.O. TYPING?
11 A. THE WAY THESE THINGS ARE FIGURED OUT, IT'S VERY
12 HARD TO PUT THAT INTO TYPES.
13 Q. LET ME DO IT A DIFFERENT WAY.
14 H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA TESTING RENDERS TWENTY-ONE
15 TYPES; RIGHT?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. A.B.O. TESTING YIELDS ONLY FOUR?
18 A. THEY ARE BROKEN DOWN INTO FOUR TYPES; THAT'S
19 CORRECT.
20 Q. SO A.B.O. TESTING ARE MUCH BROADER CATEGORIES,
21 IS THAT CORRECT, MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO FIT WITHIN EACH
22 CATEGORY?
23 IS THAT RIGHT?
24 A. YOU COULD SAY THAT.
25 Q. IN THE P.C.R. H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA TESTING, YOU
26 HAVE NARROWER CATAGORIES.
27 IS THAT RIGHT?
28 A. BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE IN THIS INSTANCE, AND
427
1 ALSO THE PERCENTAGES TEND TO BREAK DOWN WHERE THEY ARE
2 RELATIVELY EQUALLY PROPORTIONED.
3 IN OTHER WORDS, SOMETIMES YOU MIGHT HAVE TWO
4 TYPES AND ONE WOULD BE EXTREMELY RARE AND THE OTHER ONE
5 WOULD BE COMMON.
6 BUT, IN THE CASE OF H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA, AS WELL
7 AS A.B.O., THE BRACKETS ARE RELATIVELY IN THE SAME
8 BALLPARK.
9 Q. THEN MY QUESTION IS:
10 YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE -- BECAUSE YOU HAVE
11 TWENTY-ONE CATEGORIES INSTEAD OF ONLY FOUR, YOU ARE GOING
12 TO HAVE FEWER PEOPLE IN EACH CATEGORY FOR THE D.Q. ALPHA
13 THAN YOU WOULD FOR A.B.O. TYPING?
14 A. YES.
15 THE BOTTOM LINE IS DISCRIMINATION IS BETTER
16 WITH D.Q. ALPHA.
17 Q. NOW, YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCEDURES FOR
18 BLOOD ANALYSIS INCLUDING THAT OF P.C.R., D.Q. ALPHA, THAT
19 IS -- THAT ARE ACCEPTED IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AS
20 RELIABLE?
21 A. YES.
22 Q. YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE ACCEPTABILITY OF P.C.R.
23 D.Q. ALPHA TESTING IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY AS A
24 RELIABLE METHOD IS WHAT?
25 A. OKAY. WAIT.
26 I'M SORRY.
27 Q. TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, SIR, IS P.C.R.
28 D.Q. ALPHA TESTING AN ACCEPTED METHOD OF ANALYSIS, BLOOD
428
1 ANALYSIS IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY?
2 A. YES, IT IS.
3 Q. ACCEPTED AS A RELIABLE FORM OF TESTING?
4 A. YES, IT IS.
5 Q. WITH RESPECT TO YOUR ANALYSIS OF ITEM NO. 59,
6 THE BLOOD OF NICOLE SIMPSON, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT TYPE WAS
7 DERIVED IN YOUR P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA TESTING OF THAT SAMPLE.
8 A. TYPE 1.1, 1.1.
9 MS. CLARK: MADAME FOREMAN, I HAVE HERE A BLANK
10 CHART. I'M JUST GOING TO ASK THAT THE WITNESS FILL IT IN.
11 I'M GOING TO FIRST PUT DOWN ITEM NO. 59, NICOLE
12 SIMPSON; ITEM NO. 60, RON GOLDMAN; AND ITEM NO. 17 --
13 Q. DO YOU HAVE AN ITEM NO. 17 ON YOUR REPORT, SIR?
14 A. NO, I DO NOT.
15 Q. WHAT DO YOU HAVE FOR -- DO YOU HAVE AN ITEM
16 DESCRIBED AS "BLOOD TAKEN FROM SUSPECT ORENTHAL SIMPSON"?
17 A. PERP CAP VIAL WITH WHOLE BLOOD LABELED ON IT
18 "O.J. SIMPSON."
19 Q. AND THAT ITEM WAS GIVEN TO YOU WHEN?
20 A. IT WAS GIVEN TO ME ON THE 14TH OF JUNE.
21 Q. THE 14TH OF JUNE.
22 BY WHOM?
23 A. DENNIS FUNG.
24 Q. WHAT ITEM DID YOU GIVE IT?
25 A. ITEM NO. 18.
26 Q. IS THAT AN INCORRECT NUMBER?
27 A. YES, IT IS.
28 Q. WHAT ITEM NUMBER SHOULD IT BE?
429
1 A. IT SHOULD BE ITEM NO. 17.
2 Q. SO I WILL PUT DOWN ITEM NO. 17, WHICH
3 CORRESPONDS TO YOUR REPORT WHICH BEARS THE INCORRECT NUMBER
4 OF 18, BUT THAT'S THE BLOOD OF ORENTHAL SIMPSON, THE
5 SUSPECT; RIGHT?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. YOU SAID YOU DERIVED A P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA TYPE
8 FOR THE BLOOD OF NICOLE SIMPSON OF 1.1, 1.1?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. DID YOU CONDUCT THE SAME TEST ON ITEM NO. 60,
11 RONALD GOLDMAN?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. WHAT RESULTS DID YOU OBTAIN?
14 A. 1.3, 4.
15 Q. DID YOU TEST THE BLOOD OF ORENTHAL SIMPSON --
16 A. YES.
17 Q. -- USING THE SAME P.C.R. H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA
18 TEST?
19 A. YES.
20 Q. WHAT RESULT DID YOU OBTAIN?
21 A. 1.1, 1.2.
22 Q. SO ALL THREE OF THESE PEOPLE'S BLOOD, THAT
23 IS, NICOLE SIMPSON, RON GOLDMAN AND ORENTHAL SIMPSON, ARE
24 DIFFERENT.
25 IS THAT CORRECT?
26 A. THEIR H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA TYPES ARE DIFFERENT.
27 Q. DID YOU TEST ITEM NO. 23, DESCRIBED AS BLOOD
28 FROM THE INTERIOR DOOR OF THE FORD BRONCO?
430
1 A. YES.
2 Q. AND FROM WHOM DID YOU RECEIVE THAT ITEM?
3 A. CRIMINALIST FUNG.
4 Q. ON WHAT DATE?
5 A. THAT WAS RECEIVED ON THE 15TH OF JUNE.
6 Q. AND WHAT KIND OF TEST DID YOU SUBJECT IT TO?
7 A. THE P.C.R. H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA.
8 Q. WHAT RESULT DID YOU OBTAIN?
9 A. 1.1, 1.2.
10 Q. AND THAT RESULT, DID THAT RESULT INDICATE THAT
11 THE BLOOD RECOVERED FROM THE INTERIOR DOOR OF THE FORD
12 BRONCO WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE SUSPECT ORENTHAL SIMPSON --
13 A. YES.
14 Q. -- AND NOT CONSISTENT WITH EITHER VICTIM,
15 NICOLE SIMPSON OR RON GOLDMAN?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO ITEM NO. 12,
18 DESCRIBING THE BLOOD AT THE FOYER FROM SUSPECT ORENTHAL
19 SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE.
20 A. YES.
21 Q. WAS THAT -- WHO DID YOU RECEIVE THAT FROM?
22 A. CRIMINALIST FUNG.
23 Q. ON WHAT DATE?
24 A. THE 15TH OF JUNE.
25 Q. ALL OF THIS IS 1994; CORRECT?
26 A. YES, IT IS.
27 Q. AND DID YOU SUBJECT IT TO THE SAME P.C.R. D.Q.
28 ALPHA TEST?
431
1 A. YES.
2 Q. WHAT RESULT DID YOU OBTAIN?
3 A. ITEM NO. 12, 1.1, 1.2.
4 Q. AND, AGAIN, THAT RESULT ON THE BLOOD RECOVERED
5 FROM THE FOYER OF THE SUSPECT'S RESIDENCE WAS CONSISTENT
6 WITH THE BLOOD OF THE SUSPECT ORENTHAL SIMPSON?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. WITH RESPECT TO ITEM NO. 9, DESCRIBED AS BLOOD
9 FROM A GLOVE FOUND AT THE SIGHT OF THE SUSPECT'S RESIDENCE,
10 WHO GAVE YOU THAT ITEM TO ANALYZE?
11 A. CRIMINALIST FUNG.
12 Q. ON WHAT DATE?
13 A. THE 14TH OF JUNE, 1994.
14 Q. WHAT RESULT DID YOU OBTAIN FROM THE ANALYSIS OF
15 THAT BLOOD?
16 Q. LET ME BACK UP.
17 WHAT TEST DID YOU PERFORM ON THAT BLOOD?
18 A. P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA.
19 Q. DID YOU OBTAIN A RESULT?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. WHAT RESULT?
22 A. 1.1, 1.3, 4, AND A POTENTIAL 1.2.
23 Q. WHY DO YOU SAY, "POTENTIAL 1.2," IF YOU CAN
24 EXPLAIN IT TO US.
25 IT'S A COMPLICATION INHERENT IN THE TESTING
26 PROCEDURE.
27 ONE OF THE DOTS IS IDENTIFIED THROUGH KIND OF A
28 CONTROL SYSTEM, AND IN THE CASE OF MIXTURES, WHICH THIS
432
1 DOES REPRESENT, IT HAS TO BE LABELED AS A POTENTIAL,
2 BECAUSE I CANNOT CONFIRM THAT IT IS OR IS NOT ACTUALLY
3 THERE.
4 Q. LET ME ASK YOU THIS AGAIN:
5 THEN WHY -- IF YOU CANNOT CONFIRM IT, WHY SAY
6 IT?
7 A. BECAUSE IN THIS SITUATION, TO MAKE IT SIMPLE,
8 THE DOTS LIGHT UP FOR EACH OF THE VARIOUS TYPES, 1.1; THERE
9 IS A 1.3 DOT ON THE SYSTEM; THERE IS NO 1.2 DOT.
10 AND THE WAY THAT IT'S DETERMINED WHETHER OR NOT
11 A 1.2 IS PRESENT IN A SAMPLE THAT HAS NO MIXTURES IS
12 BECAUSE YOU HAVE HAD A DOT THAT LIGHTS UP WITH 1.2, 3 AND
13 4 AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER DOT THAT HAS AN -- ALL BUT 1.3 --
14 IT'S VERY COMPLICATED.
15 Q. LET ME ASK YOU THIS:
16 YOU SAY THERE IS NO 1.2 ON THE CHART?
17 A. THERE IS NO 1.2 ON THE CHART.
18 Q. WHAT IS THERE ON THE CHART THAT WOULD EVER
19 ALLOW YOU TO CONCLUDE THAT YOU HAVE A 1.2 TYPE?
20 A. IF I HAVE THIS DOT THAT LIGHTS UP WITH THREE OF
21 THE TYPES, THEN I KNOW THAT THERE IS POTENTIALLY A 1.2.
22 NOW, IF I HAVE ANOTHER DOT WHICH LIGHTS UP ONLY
23 ALL THREE OF THE "1" TYPES -- BECAUSE, AS YOU CAN SEE,
24 THERE ARE 1.1, A 1.2 AND A 1.3 -- THEN I KNOW THAT THERE
25 HAS TO BE A 1.
26 AND IF THE SPECIFIC 1.1 AND 1.3 DOTS DON'T
27 LIGHT UP, THEN I KNOW BY ELIMINATION THAT THE 1.2 MUST BE
28 PRESENT.
433
1 I'M SORRY. IT'S VERY HARD TO EXPLAIN. IT'S
2 COMPLICATED.
3 Q. I THINK I GET IT.
4 SO YOU DETERMINE THAT YOU HAVE A 1.2 BY
5 ELIMINATION, BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T SHOW UP?
6 A. BECAUSE THERE IS NO SPECIFIC DOT FOR THE 1.2.
7 Q. AND WHEN YOU TESTED THE BLOOD OF ORENTHAL
8 SIMPSON, HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT YOU HAD A 1.1,
9 1.2?
10 A. BECAUSE ON THAT STRIP, THE COMBINATION DOT FOR
11 THE 1.2 LIT UP AS WELL AS THE 1.1 DOT AS WELL AS THE 1
12 DOT.
13 SO, THEREFORE, I WOULD CONCLUDE THAT THERE IS A
14 1.1 AS WELL AS A 1.2 THERE.
15 Q. SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU JUST SAID THERE WASN'T
16 A -- JUST SAID THERE WAS A 1.2 DOT, AND BEFORE YOU SAID
17 THERE WASN'T.
18 A. IN THAT CASE, THERE WAS NO MIXTURE, BECAUSE
19 ONLY TWO DOTS SHOWED UP.
20 LET ME RETRACT THAT AND MAKE IT DOTS.
21 Q. LET'S SEE IF WE CAN MAKE IT SIMPLE:
22 BY PROCESS OF ELIMINATION, THAT'S HOW YOU
23 DETERMINE THAT YOU HAVE 1.2.
24 IS THAT CORRECT?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. AND WHEN -- AND ON THAT GLOVE FOUND AT THE
27 RESIDENCE OF ORENTHAL SIMPSON, YOU FOUND A MIXTURE OF
28 BLOODS.
434
1 IS THAT CORRECT?
2 A. THERE WAS A MIXTURE OF DOTS INDICATING TO ME
3 THAT THIS WAS A MIXED SAMPLE.
4 Q. INDICATING THAT IT WAS A BLOOD OF MORE THAN ONE
5 PERSON FOUND ON THAT GLOVE?
6 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
7 Q. ALL RIGHT.
8 YOU FOUND A BLOOD TYPE CONSISTENT OF THAT WITH
9 NICOLE SIMPSON?
10 A. THE DOTS THAT LIT UP ARE CONSISTENT WITH NICOLE
11 SIMPSON'S TYPE.
12 THAT COULD BE A PART OF THAT MIXTURE, A
13 POTENTIAL PART, YES.
14 Q. AND THE BLOOD OF RON GOLDMAN?
15 A. ALSO COULD BE A POTENTIAL PART OF THE MIXTURE.
16 Q. WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS:
17 YOU INDICATED THAT YOU GOT -- WHEN YOU TESTED
18 THE BLOOD, YOU FOUND 1.1, 1.2 --
19 A. YES.
20 Q. -- OR POTENTIAL 1.2, 1.1?
21 A. YES.
22 Q. 1.1 --
23 A. RIGHT.
24 Q. 1.3, AND 4?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. AREN'T THOSE ALL THE TYPES THAT ARE KNOWN FOR
27 NICOLE SIMPSON, RON GOLDMAN AND ORENTHAL SIMPSON?
28 A. YES.
435
1 Q. SO YOU FOUND THE BLOOD TYPES OF ALL THREE OF
2 THE PARTIES SHOWN ON THE CHART THAT I WOULD NOW MARK AS
3 PEOPLE'S 33.
4 THE SECRETARY: 34.
5 (MARKED FOR I.D.: = EXHIBIT 34.)
6 Q. BY MS. CLARK: SO THAT MEANS ALL THREE OF THOSE
7 PEOPLE, NICOLE SIMPSON, RON GOLDMAN AND ORENTHAL SIMPSON
8 ARE FOUND ON THE GLOVE THAT WAS RETRIEVED FROM THE
9 SUSPECT'S RESIDENCE CALLED ITEM NO. 9?
10 A. IT COULD BE A POTENTIAL MIXTURE; THAT'S
11 CORRECT.
12 Q. THE BLOOD MIXTURE THAT YOU FOUND ON THAT GLOVE,
13 COULD THAT HAVE COME FROM JUST ONE PERSON?
14 A. NO, IT COULD NOT.
15 Q. COULD THAT HAVE COME FROM JUST TWO PEOPLE, JUST
16 TWO PEOPLE?
17 A. WITH THIS TEST, I COULD SAY IT IS A MIXTURE,
18 BUT I COULDN'T SAY WHETHER IT CAME FROM A MIXTURE OF ONE --
19 I MEAN OF TWO OR MORE.
20 I CAN'T MAKE THAT DETERMINATION.
21 Q. BUT IT DEFINITELY CAME FROM TWO OR MORE PEOPLE?
22 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
23 Q. AND THE BLOOD TYPES THAT YOU FOUND REVEALED THE
24 PRESENCE OF ALL THREE OF THE PEOPLE SHOWN ON THE CHART THAT
25 IS MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 33?
26 A. YES.
27 LIKE I SAID, IT COULD BE A POTENTIAL MIXTURE.
28 Q. WELL, IT IS A MIXTURE; IT'S NOT A POTENTIAL
436
1 MIXTURE, ISN'T IT?
2 IT IS A MIXTURE OF BLOODS; RIGHT?
3 A. RIGHT.
4 BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND WHEN YOU ARE
5 DEALING WITH COMBINATIONS, POSSIBLE COMBINATIONS, THESE
6 PEOPLE COULD ALSO -- IF WE TOOK ALL THOSE PARTICULAR SPOTS
7 THAT WOULD ACCOUNT FOR LIKE A 1.1, A 1.3, 1.2, SO ON AND SO
8 FORTH, DIFFERENT COMBINATIONS COULD ARISE THAT COULD ALSO
9 PUT THOSE DOTS THERE, SUCH AS A 1.1, 4, A 1.3, A 1.2.
10 Q. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, SIR.
11 ALL I'M SAYING, ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THE BLOOD
12 THAT YOU FOUND ON THE GLOVE MARKED AS ITEM NO. 9, THE
13 MIXTURE YOU FOUND IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT YOU WOULD FIND IN
14 THE MIXTURE OF THE BLOOD SHOWN ON NICOLE SIMPSON, RON
15 GOLDMAN AND ORENTHAL SIMPSON?
16 THE SECRETARY: EXCUSE ME, MISS CLARK.
17 THAT NEEDS TO BE EXHIBIT 34.
18 Q. BY MS. CLARK: NOW, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION
19 TO ITEMS NO. 47, 48, 49, 50, 51 AND 52. THEY ARE DESCRIBED
20 AS THE BLOOD TAKEN FROM THE BLOOD TRAIL ALONG THE ESCAPE
21 ROUTE AT THE CRIME SCENE, 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
22 DID YOU RECEIVE THOSE ITEM NUMBERS FROM DENNIS
23 FUNG, ALSO?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. ON WHAT DATE?
26 A. ON THE 14TH OF JUNE 1994.
27 Q. DID YOU ATTEMPT TO TEST THOSE ITEMS FOR --
28 WITH THE TEST KNOWN AS P.C.R. H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA?
437
1 A. YES.
2 Q. WERE ALL OF THOSE STAINS SUFFICIENT IN QUANTITY
3 OR QUALITY TO YIELD A RESULT OF THAT TESTING?
4 A. CONCLUSIVE RESULTS WERE OBTAINED ON THREE OF
5 THE SAMPLES.
6 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHICH ONES.
7 A. YES.
8 ITEM NO. 48, THE TYPE DETECTED WAS 1.1, 1.2.
9 ITEM NO. 50, 1.1, 1.2.
10 ITEM NO. 52, 1.1, 1.2.
11 Q. AND, AGAIN, THAT IS THE TYPE CONSISTENT WITH
12 THE BLOOD OF ORENTHAL SIMPSON?
13 A. YES.
14 Q. NOW, THEN, THERE WERE THREE ITEMS THAT YOU DID
15 NOT OBTAIN A RESULT FROM?
16 A. EXCUSE ME.
17 OUT OF THAT GROUP, THERE WERE TWO ITEMS THAT
18 DID NOT YIELD CONCLUSIVE RESULTS.
19 Q. ONLY TWO?
20 I READ TO YOU ITEMS 47, 48, 49, 50, 51 AND 52.
21 A. I'M SORRY.
22 51 WAS NOT ANALYZED.
23 Q. WHY NOT?
24 A. I BELIEVE DENNIS FUNG, BEING THE CRIMINALIST AT
25 THE SCENE, PICKED A SPECIFIC SELECTION THAT SHOULD
26 REPRESENT WHAT HE FELT WAS A BLOOD TRAIL.
27 AND IN ORDER TO CONSERVE ON VARIOUS SAMPLES
28 THAT ARE TAKEN INTO EVIDENCE, WE DO NOT ALWAYS ANALYZE
438
1 EVERYTHING AT THE SAME TIME.
2 IN THIS INSTANCE, HE CHOSE TO OMIT THAT
3 ITEM NUMBER AND SUGGESTED THAT I ANALYZE THE ITEMS THAT I
4 DID.
5 Q. SO ITEM NO. 51 IS HELD IN ORDER TO PRESERVE IT.
6 IS THAT CORRECT?
7 A. FOR FUTURE AND FURTHER TESTING.
8 Q. AND SO THE BALANCE OF THE ITEMS THAT WERE
9 SUBMITTED TO YOU WERE SUBMITTED AS REPRESENTATIVE SAMPLES
10 OF THAT BLOOD TRAIL?
11 A. YES.
12 Q. AND OF THOSE REMAINING FIVE ITEMS, TWO GAVE YOU
13 NO CONCLUSIVE RESULT?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. AND THAT WAS ITEM NO. 47 AND ITEM NO. 49?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN BY "NO CONCLUSIVE
18 RESULT"?
19 A. AT THIS STAGE, THE TEST WAS JUST RECENTLY
20 PERFORMED.
21 SOMETIMES I CAN GO BACK AND TRY TO REEXAMINE
22 THE ITEM AND SEE IF A TYPING RESULT CAN BE OBTAINED. I
23 HAVE NOT YET HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.
24 IN THIS INSTANCE, ITEM NO. 49 SIMPLY DID
25 NOT TYPE. I DID NOT SEE ANYTHING COME UP ON ANY OF MY
26 STRIPS.
27 ITEM NO. 47 YIELDED SOMETHING, BUT IT WASN'T
28 ACROSS THAT WE CALL A CONTROLLED LINE.
439
1 WE HAVE A DOT THAT REPRESENTS A CONTROL, AND
2 THAT HAS TO TURN UP IN ORDER FOR US TO CALL THAT PARTICULAR
3 STRIP.
4 IT'S A CONTROL FOR THAT PARTICULAR TEST.
5 Q. BEFORE YOU CAN SAY THAT YOU HAVE A RESULT OR
6 DRAW A CONCLUSION FROM THE ANALYSIS OF A BLOOD, YOU HAVE TO
7 BE ABLE TO SHOW ENOUGH OF A RESULT ON IT THAT YOU FEEL
8 CONFIDENT IN WHAT IT IS SHOWING YOU.
9 IS THAT CORRECT?
10 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
11 Q. IN THE CASE OF ITEM NO. 47, THE RESULT OR THE
12 REACTION WHEN YOU PERFORMED THE TEST WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH
13 TO GIVE YOU THE BASIS FOR A CONCLUSION THAT YOU COULD
14 TESTIFY TO?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. CAN YOU TELL US -- AND WITH ITEM NO. 49, THERE
17 WAS NO REACTION AT ALL TO THE TESTING.
18 IS THAT CORRECT?
19 A. YES.
20 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHY THAT OCCURRED WITH RESPECT
21 TO ITEMS NO. 47 AND 49, WHY YOUR TESTING BROUGHT NO
22 CONCLUSIVE RESULT?
23 A. BECAUSE AT THIS POINT THE POSSIBILITIES ARE
24 ENDLESS, AND RETESTING AND SUBSEQUENT CHECKING INTO VARIOUS
25 QUANTITIES IS AN ISSUE.
26 I REALLY COULDN'T SAY, GIVE YOU A DEFINITE
27 ANSWER.
28 I CAN GIVE YOU POTENTIAL REASONS WHY --
440
1 Q. PLEASE.
2 A. -- WHY THESE BLOOD STAINS SOMETIMES DO NOT GIVE
3 RESULTS.
4 THE MOST COMMON IS INSUFFICIENT QUANTITIES OF
5 D.N.A. THAT IS OF THE INTEGRITY THAT WE ARE ABLE TO TEST.
6 Q. IN OTHER WORDS, INSUFFICIENT QUANTITY OF
7 INTACT D.N.A.; RIGHT?
8 A. WELL, INTACT TO THE EXTENT THAT IT'S TESTABLE.
9 BECAUSE I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THE D.N.A., AS SOON
10 AS IT DRIES UP, IT'S GOING TO BREAK DOWN TO A CERTAIN
11 EXTENT.
12 BUT AS LONG AS MOST OF IT IS OF A REASONABLE
13 QUALITY, THEN IT CAN BE TESTED.
14 Q. BUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THE SAMPLE ITSELF
15 MAY JUST NOT BE SUFFICIENT TO ALLOW FOR ANY RESULT WHEN
16 TESTED?
17 A. YES.
18 Q. AND IS THAT A PRETTY COMMON PROBLEM WHEN YOU
19 TALK ABOUT RECOVERING BLOOD STAINS FROM CRIME SCENES THAT
20 ARE PARTICULARLY OUTDOORS, SUBJECT TO THE ELEMENTS?
21 A. YES.
22 NOT ALL BLOOD STAINS ARE TYPEABLE.
23 Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
24 A. FOR THE EXACT SAME REASON THAT I JUST GAVE, WE
25 DON'T ALWAYS OBTAIN RESULTS ON BLOOD STAINS.
26 Q. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH IN QUALITY?
27 A. BASICALLY, YES.
28 Q. NOW, ALL OF THE BLOOD WORK THAT YOU HAVE JUST
441
1 TESTIFIED TO, SIR, WAS DONE UNDER THE D.R. NUMBER THAT YOU
2 PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. AND THEN JUST TO RECAP, THE BLOOD FROM THE
5 INTERIOR OF THE FORD BRONCO TESTED OUT TO BE CONSISTENT
6 WITH THE BLOOD TYPE OF THE SUSPECT, ORENTHAL SIMPSON, AND
7 INCONSISTENT WITH THAT OF THE VICTIMS; CORRECT?
8 A. YES.
9 Q. THE BLOOD TAKEN FROM THE FOYER OF THE SUSPECT'S
10 RESIDENCE WAS ALSO TESTED. THE RESULT WAS CONSISTENT WITH
11 THE BLOOD OF THE SUSPECT.
12 IS THAT CORRECT?
13 A. YES.
14 Q. THE BLOOD TAKEN FROM THE BLOOD TRAIL ALONG THE
15 ESCAPE ROUTE AT THE CRIME SCENE OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY ALSO, TO
16 THE EXTENT YOU GOT A CONCLUSIVE RESULT, TESTED CONSISTENT
17 WITH THE BLOOD OF ORENTHAL SIMPSON.
18 IS THAT CORRECT.
19 A. YES.
20 Q. THE BLOOD THAT YOU FOUND ON THE GLOVE AND
21 TESTED THAT WAS RECOVERED FROM THE SIDE OF THE SUSPECT'S
22 RESIDENCE CONTAINED A MIX THAT WAS CONSISTENT WITH THE
23 BLOOD TYPES OF NICOLE SIMPSON, RON GOLDMAN AND ORENTHAL
24 SIMPSON.
25 IS THAT CORRECT?
26 A. YES, POSSIBLE MIXTURE.
27 THE FOREPERSON: IF THE GRAND JURORS WOULD ALLOW, THE
28 DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS HAVE REQUESTED CONTINUING WITH
442
1 THIS WITNESS, AND THIS WILL THEN CONCLUDE OUR ACTIVITY FOR
2 THE DAY.
3 IF THERE IS NO OBJECTION, WE WILL PROCEED.
4 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
5 I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
6 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
7 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
8 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
9 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
10
11 (SHORT PAUSE.)
12
13 Q. BY MS. CLARK: HAVE YOU TESTED ANY OF THESE
14 BLOOD SAMPLES FOR A.B.O. BLOOD TYPING?
15 A. NO.
16 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE BLOOD SAMPLES RECOVERED
17 FROM THE FORD BRONCO, THE CRIME SCENE AND THE SUSPECT'S
18 RESIDENCE AND THE GLOVE, WERE THE SAMPLES SUFFICIENT TO
19 CONDUCT A.B.O. TYPING?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. HAS THAT BEEN DONE AT THIS TIME?
22 A. NOT YET.
23 Q. WHY NOT?
24 A. GENERALLY SPEAKING, THIS TEST HAS HIGHER
25 DISCRIMINATION THAN A P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA TEST; AND, UNDER
26 THE CIRCUMSTANCES, THE RUSH, EXPEDIENCY AND ALL, THEY
27 WANTED TO PICK THE MOST DISCRIMINATING TEST THAT COULD BE
28 DONE IN A TIMELY MANNER.
443
1 AND THAT'S WHY THE P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA WAS
2 CHOSEN.
3 Q. IN OTHER WORDS, BECAUSE P.C.R. GIVES YOU -- I'M
4 TRYING TO KIND OF REFINE THE WORD "DISCRIMINATING."
5 WHEN YOU DID A.B.O. TYPING, FOR EXAMPLE, TYPE
6 "A" CAN HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 30 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION;
7 RIGHT?
8 30 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION HAS TYPE "A"?
9 A. APPROXIMATELY, YES.
10 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THESE P.C.R., D.Q. ALPHA TYPES,
11 THESE TYPES HAVE SMALLER NUMBERS AS TO EACH TYPE, IS THAT
12 CORRECT, OF THE POPULATION?
13 A. YES, IN THE APPROXIMATELY GENERAL POPULATION
14 FREQUENCIES, THEY ARE ALL BELOW 20 PERCENT.
15 Q. SO SINCE THE P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA TYPE GIVES YOU
16 TYPES FOR WHICH THE POPULATION POSSIBILITIES ARE ALL BELOW
17 20 PERCENT, IT'S GOING TO GIVE YOU SMALLER NUMBER OF THE
18 POPULATION THAT COULD POSSIBLY HAVE DONATED ANY BLOOD THAN
19 AN A.B.O. TEST WOULD?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. NOW, DOES EVERYONE HAVE ONE OF THESE P.C.R.
22 D.Q. ALPHA TYPES?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. AND, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH RESPECT TO THE TYPE 1.3,
25 4, RON GOLDMAN, ARE THERE STATISTICAL TABLES THAT TELL YOU
26 WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION HAS THAT TYPE?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. AND WHAT STATISTICAL TABLE ARE YOU USING?
444
1 A. WE HAVE -- AT L.A.P.D., WHAT WE UTILIZE IS A
2 TABLE THAT IS BASED UPON THE CENSUS FOR THE L.A. COUNTY
3 AREA, KEEPING IN MIND THE BREAKDOWN OF THE ETHNIC
4 BACKGROUND.
5 AND THAT IS INCORPORATED WITH STUDIES THAT
6 HAVE BEEN DONE BY THE F.B.I. AND ROCHE MOLECULAR SYSTEMS,
7 WHICH HAVE ETHNIC BREAKDOWNS FOR EACH OF THE VARIOUS H.L.A.
8 D.Q. ALPHA TYPES.
9 THIS PUT TOGETHER GIVES US A GENERAL NUMBER.
10 Q. IS THAT TABLE THAT YOU USE, THAT STATISTICAL
11 TABLE OF POPULATION FREQUENCIES, IS THAT ACCEPTED AS A
12 RELIABLE TABLE IN A SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY FOR THE
13 MEASUREMENT OF POPULATION FREQUENCIES IN P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA
14 TYPES IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY?
15 A. YES. IT'S BASED UPON RELIABLE TABLES.
16 KEEP IN MIND, THESE ARE APPROXIMATE VALUES
17 ALSO.
18 Q. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, RON GOLDMAN HAS BEEN TYPED AS
19 HAVING THE D.Q. ALPHA TYPE OF 1.3, 4.
20 WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION HAS THAT
21 TYPE?
22 A. I'M GOING TO HAVE TO REFER TO MY NOTES.
23 1.3, 4, APPROXIMATELY 5 PERCENT.
24 Q. 5 PERCENT?
25 A. YES.
26 Q. THANK YOU.
27 WITH RESPECT TO THE TYPE OF ORENTHAL SIMPSON,
28 1.1, 1.2, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION SHARES THAT
445
1 BLOOD TYPE?
2 A. APPROXIMATELY ONE IN FIFTEEN PEOPLE WOULD HAVE
3 THAT TYPE.
4 Q. WHAT PERCENTAGE?
5 A. PERCENTAGEWISE, ABOUT 7 PERCENT.
6 Q. 7 PERCENT?
7 A. YEAH.
8 Q. AND NICOLE SIMPSON, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE
9 POPULATION HAS 1.1, 1.1?
10 A. PROBABLY 3 PERCENT.
11 Q. 3 PERCENT?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. HAVE YOU CONDUCTED TESTING ON THE BLOOD OF THE
14 GLOVE RECOVERED FROM THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY
15 YET?
16 A. NO.
17 Q. IS THAT IN PROGRESS?
18 A. THAT -- THERE IS A REQUEST THAT HAS BEEN
19 FORMALLY MADE FOR THAT, BUT AS YET WORK HAS NOT BEEN DONE
20 ON THAT.
21 Q. HAVE YOU TESTED ANY BLOOD SAMPLES TAKEN FROM
22 THE DRAINS INSIDE THE SUSPECT'S HOUSE?
23 A. NO.
24 Q. HOW RELIABLE IS THE P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA TEST ON
25 BLOOD WHEN YOU HAVE SPECIMENS THAT ARE OF SUFFICIENT
26 QUALITY FOR THAT TESTING?
27 A. HOW RELIABLE IS IT?
28 Q. YES.
446
1 A. IF WE GET A RESULT, WE GET A RESULT.
2 Q. IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE SPECIMEN IS GOOD ENOUGH
3 FOR P.C.R. TESTING AND YOU WOULD OBTAIN A RESULT, THE
4 RESULT IS RELIABLE?
5 A. RIGHT.
6 Q. SO LIKE IN A.B.O. TESTING, THE P.C.R. D.Q.
7 ALPHA TESTING WILL NOT TELL YOU THAT A PARTICULAR PERSON,
8 TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHERS ON THE PLANET, LEFT A
9 PARTICULAR BLOOD SAMPLE AT A CRIME SCENE.
10 IS THAT CORRECT?
11 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
12 Q. WHAT IT DOES IS TELL YOU THAT THE PERSON WHO
13 LEFT THE BLOOD AT THE CRIME SCENE, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD ONLY
14 HAVE COME FROM A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION THAT
15 SHARES THAT BLOOD TYPE.
16 IS THAT RIGHT?
17 A. YEAH, IT COULD PUT THEM INTO A GROUP OF
18 POSSIBLE DONORS.
19 Q. AND UNLIKE -- A.B.O. TESTING WILL DO THAT ALSO;
20 CORRECT?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
22 Q. IT PUTS THESE INTO A GROUP OF POSSIBLE DONORS?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. IN THE CASE OF A.B.O. TESTING, IF YOU FIND
25 BLOOD AT A CRIME SCENE THAT'S TYPED OUT AS TYPE "A" AND
26 YOUR SUSPECT HAS TYPE "A" BLOOD, YOU WOULD SAY THAT THAT
27 SUSPECT OR ANYONE ELSE WITH TYPE "A" BLOOD COULD HAVE LEFT
28 THAT BLOOD AT THE CRIME SCENE.
447
1 IS THAT RIGHT?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. AND WITH TYPE "A" BLOOD, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT,
4 WHAT, 30 SOME-ODD PERCENT OF THE POPULATION?
5 A. APPROXIMATELY.
6 Q. WITH RESPECT TO P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA TESTING, FOR
7 EXAMPLE, ORENTHAL SIMPSON HAS THE TYPE 1.1, 1.2 THAT'S
8 INCLUDED WITHIN 7 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION.
9 IS THAT RIGHT?
10 A. APPROXIMATELY, YES.
11 Q. AND YOU FIND 1.1, 1.2 BLOOD AT THE CRIME SCENE,
12 THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT ORENTHAL SIMPSON IS ONE OF THE 7
13 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION THAT COULD HAVE LEFT THAT BLOOD
14 AT THE CRIME SCENE?
15 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
16 Q. DID YOU RECEIVE THE BLOOD FOR TESTING ON
17 MONDAY, THE 13TH OR TUESDAY, THE 14TH?
18 AND I TAKE IT THIS QUESTION GOES TO THE BLOOD
19 OF THE SUSPECT MR. ORENTHAL SIMPSON.
20 A. THE 14TH.
21 Q. WHERE YOU GIVEN A CAP OF ANY SORT TO TEST FOR
22 BLOOD?
23 A. NO.
24 Q. WAS A BLUE KNIT CAP SUBMITTED TO YOU FOR
25 TESTING FOR BLOOD YET?
26 A. OH, NO. NO CAP.
27 Q. DO YOU EXPECT YOU WILL RECEIVE OTHER ITEMS OF
28 EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE FOR FURTHER -- FOR BLOOD TESTING AT
448
1 SOME POINT?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. NOW, DO YOU EXAMINE -- DO YOU PERFORM HAIR
4 ANALYSIS -- SORRY. LET ME FURTHER REFINE THAT.
5 IF HAIRS ARE FOUND AT A CRIME SCENE IN SOME
6 AREA, THEY CAN BE ANALYZED TO SEE IF THEY ARE CONSISTENT
7 WITH THE HAIR OF A SUSPECT OR A VICTIM OR A WITNESS;
8 CORRECT?
9 A. THERE ARE TWO WAYS THAT CAN BE DONE.
10 NOW, P.C.R., D.Q. ALPHA HAS THE ABILITY TO
11 ANALYZE HAIRS IF THEY HAVE THE ROOT SECTION AVAILABLE.
12 THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR THAT.
13 OTHERWISE, THERE IS A COMPARATIVE MICROSCOPIC
14 LINE THAT CAN DO THIS SORT OF THING. THAT WOULD BE A TRACE
15 ANALYSIS.
16 Q. IF IT'S MICROSCOPIC AND NOT A P.C.R. ANALYSIS
17 OF HAIR, FOR EXAMPLE, TAKEN FROM A CAP, WOULD THAT BE
18 SOMETHING YOU WOULD DO?
19 A. NO.
20 Q. IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CHEMIST AND A
21 CRIMINALIST?
22 A. A CHEMIST MIGHT BE -- A CHEMIST APPLYING
23 CHEMISTRY IS A PART OF CRIMINALISTICS.
24 Q. SO A CRIMINALIST IS A BROAD CATEGORY; A CHEMIST
25 IS A SUBSPECIALTY WITHIN THAT CATEGORY?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. WAS ANY OF THE BLOOD RECOVERED FROM BETWEEN THE
28 TWO VICTIMS?
449
1 AND YOU CAN REFER TO THIS REPORT TO SEE IF SUCH
2 AN ITEM WAS EVEN RECOVERED, TESTED BY YOU.
3 A. NO.
4 Q. YOU DIDN'T LOOK AT YOUR NOTES.
5 DO YOU KNOW THAT?
6 A. I KNOW THAT.
7 Q. DO YOU PLAN TO DO THAT IN THE FUTURE?
8 A. I'M NOT AWARE OF EVERY -- I HAVEN'T GONE OVER
9 THE PROPERTY REPORT, SO I DON'T KNOW OF ANY BLOOD STAINS
10 BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS.
11 IF THAT IS REQUESTED OF ME, I WILL ANALYZE IT,
12 BUT -- EXCUSE ME. I'M NOT THE ONE THAT MAKES THAT
13 DECISION.
14 Q. YOU DO NOT DETERMINE WHAT YOU ANALYZE?
15 A. THE PROCESS IS REQUESTED, THEN I DO THE
16 ANALYSIS.
17 Q. SO DID YOU RECEIVE A LIST OF REQUESTS FOR
18 ANALYSIS IN THIS CASE?
19 A. SOME VERBAL AND -- IN SOME CASES, YES, I DO
20 HAVE INPUT IF THEY ASK MY ADVICE.
21 BUT, FOR THE MOST PART, THE INVESTIGATION IS
22 LED BY THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS, AND THROUGH THEM
23 REQUESTS ARE MADE FOR OUR ANALYSIS.
24 Q. HAVE YOU COMPLETED ALL OF THE REQUESTS FOR
25 ANALYSIS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE IN THIS CASE?
26 A. NO.
27 Q. HAVE YOU COMPLETED THE TESTING OF THE BLOOD
28 STAINS RECOVERED FROM THE INTERIOR OF THE FORD BRONCO?
450
1 A. I WORKED ON A FEW STAINS FROM THE INTERIOR OF
2 THE BRONCO.
3 Q. HAVE YOU COMPLETED YOUR ANALYSIS OF ALL OF THE
4 BLOOD STAINS RECOVERED FROM THE INTERIOR OF THE FORD
5 BRONCO?
6 A. NO.
7 Q. AT THIS POINT IN TIME, HAVE YOU ANALYZED ANY
8 BLOOD STAINS FROM THE FORD BRONCO THAT REVEALED THE
9 PRESENCE OF THE BLOOD OF THE VICTIMS NICOLE SIMPSON AND
10 RONALD GOLDMAN?
11 A. NO.
12 Q. BUT YOU HAVE NOT COMPLETED YOUR WORK ON THE
13 BLOOD FROM THE INTERIOR OF THAT FORD BRONCO YET?
14 A. NOT YET.
15 THE FOREPERSON: IF THERE ARE ANY ADDITIONAL
16 QUESTIONS TO BE SUBMITTED, IF THE GRAND JURORS WOULD PLEASE
17 PREPARE THEM AT THIS TIME.
18 MS. CLARK: I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION.
19 Q. I BELIEVE YOU INDICATED WITH RESPECT TO THE
20 GLOVE THAT YOU HAVE TESTIFIED TO THAT WAS RECOVERED FROM
21 THE RESIDENCE OF MR. SIMPSON, THAT YOU DETECTED 1.1, 1.3,
22 AND 4.
23 IS THAT CORRECT?
24 A. YES, AND A POTENTIAL 1.2.
25 Q. YOU ALSO HAD A POTENTIAL 1.2 THERE?
26 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
27 Q. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THERE IS NO 1.2 ON THAT
28 GLOVE?
451
1 A. THAT IS A POSSIBILITY.
2 Q. WHAT IS THE GREATER LIKELIHOOD?
3 A. I CAN'T SPECULATE ON THAT.
4 Q. THE POSSIBILITY EXISTS THAT THERE IS NO 1.2.
5 IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
6 A. THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.
7 Q. BUT BASED ON WHAT YOU SAW AND THE RESULTS OF
8 YOUR TESTING, YOU FIND THAT THERE IS AN INDICATION OF A
9 1.2?
10 A. IT COULD BE THERE; THEN AGAIN, IT MAY NOT.
11 THERE IS POTENTIAL FOR IT TO BE THERE.
12 Q. ALL RIGHT.
13 THEN ARE YOU INDICATING THAT A 1.2 WAS NOT
14 DETECTED?
15 A. NO.
16 Q. WHAT ARE YOU INDICATING?
17 A. I'M GOING TO HAVE TO RESTATE THAT.
18 THERE IS A POTENTIAL OF 1.2 PRESENT THERE
19 BECAUSE IT'S NOT POSSIBLE WITH THIS PARTICULAR TEST TO SAY
20 FOR SURE WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS A 1.2 THERE.
21 Q. SO IT DOESN'T MEAN IT IS NOT THERE; YOU ARE
22 JUST SAYING YOU CAN'T SAY FOR SURE AT THIS TIME, BASED ON
23 THE NATURE OF THE TESTS, THE LIMITATIONS OF D.Q. ALPHA?
24 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
25 THE FOREPERSON: FINAL QUESTIONS NEED TO BE SUBMITTED
26 AT THIS TIME IF THERE ARE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
27 Q. BY MS. CLARK: DO REPEATED TESTS FOR -- USING
28 P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA ON THE SAME BLOOD SAMPLE GIVE THE SAME
452
1 RESULT?
2 A. I'M SORRY?
3 ONE MORE TIME, PLEASE.
4 Q. SURE.
5 DO REPEATED TESTS USING THE P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA
6 METHOD ON THE SAME BLOOD SAMPLE GIVE THE SAME RESULT?
7 A. IT'S A HIGH PRECISION IN P.C.R. D.Q. ALPHA.
8 Q. IN OTHER WORDS --
9 A. YES.
10 Q. THANK YOU.
11 UNDER ANY CONDITIONS, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT
12 BLOOD -- OKAY.
13 ARE THERE ANY CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH -- WELL,
14 ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
15 LET ME THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT.
16 IF THE BLOOD OF NICOLE SIMPSON'S TESTED OUT
17 TODAY AT 1.1, 1.1, WILL IT ALWAYS TEST THAT WAY, SAME
18 RESULT?
19 A. YES.
20 Q. THAT'S FOR EXAMPLE -- FOR AN EXAMPLE.
21 WHATEVER TYPE SOMEONE HAS, YOU TEST IT TODAY,
22 FOR EXAMPLE, RON GOLDMAN EVEN, 1.3, 4, YOU TEST IT AGAIN
23 NEXT YEAR, IT'S STILL GOING TO BE 1.3, 4?
24 A. THERE IS A GENEALOGY IF YOU ARE BORN WITH BLUE
25 EYES, THAT'S THE WAY YOU DIE.
26 Q. THANK YOU, SIR.
27 HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO DO THIS TEST, P.C.R.
28 D.Q. ALPHA?
453
1 A. FOR BLOOD STAINS, THEY CAN BE COMPLETED, FROM
2 BEGINNING TO END, WITH A RESULT IN ONE DAY.
3 BUT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A REGULAR WORKDAY.
4 Q. ALL RIGHT.
5 THE TYPES THAT YOU HAVE SHOWN HERE ON THE CHART
6 MARKED PEOPLE'S 34, 1.1, 1.1 FOR NICOLE AND 1.3, 4 FOR RON
7 GOLDMAN, THE -- WHAT IS D.Q. ALPHA?
8 A. H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA, WELL, THAT STANDS FOR HUMAN
9 LEUKOCYTE ANTIGEN.
10 AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS, IN THE BLOOD, EVERYBODY
11 KNOWS THERE IS SOMETHING RED IN THERE. THOSE ARE THE RED
12 BLOOD CELLS.
13 WELL, THERE ARE WHITE BLOOD CELLS, ALSO. HUMAN
14 LEUKOCYTE ANTIGEN IS SOMETHING THAT'S A PART OF THE WHITE
15 BLOOD CELLS.
16 NOW, THERE ARE ACTUAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE
17 H.L.A., THESE HUMAN LEUKOCYTE ANTIGENS.
18 ON THESE WHITE BLOOD CELLS, LIKE EVERYBODY HAS
19 DIFFERENT COLOR EYES.
20 AGAIN, I WILL USE THAT ANALOGY.
21 THE D.Q. ALPHA REGION THAT GENETICALLY ENCODES
22 FOR THIS PARTICULAR ANTIGEN IS WHAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR,
23 SPECIFICALLY.
24 Q. SO THEN WHEN YOU TEST FOR THAT MATERIAL KNOWN
25 AS H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA, THAT MATERIAL IS MEASURED IN
26 NUMERICAL RESULTS SUCH AS THE TYPES YOU HAVE SHOWN US HERE?
27 A. THEY ARE ARBITARILY CALLED THAT.
28 Q. SO THEY JUST ARBITARILY ASSIGNED NUMBERS TO
454
1 IDENTIFY DIFFERENT TYPES.
2 IS THAT RIGHT?
3 A. RIGHT.
4 Q. WHY DO YOU HAVE TWO NUMBERS FOR A TYPE? WHY
5 NOT JUST ONE NUMBER?
6 A. THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
7 THE REASON FOR THAT IS, EVERYBODY IS BUILT UP
8 ON TWO SETS OF CHROMOSOMES.
9 WITHOUT GETTING REAL COMPLICATED, ONE-HALF IS
10 INHERITED FROM YOUR MOTHER AND ONE-HALF FROM YOUR FATHER.
11 AND, THEREFORE, THERE ARE DIFFERENCES OF TWO DIFFERENT
12 TYPES.
13 ON OCCASION, YOUR MOTHER'S TYPE MIGHT BE THE
14 SAME AS YOU'RE INHERITING FROM YOUR FATHER'S TYPE, WHICH
15 WOULD BE, FOR INSTANCE, NICOLE SIMPSON. SHE'S A 1.1, 1.1.
16 BUT, FOR THE MOST PART, PEOPLE HAVE TWO
17 DIFFERENT TYPES.
18 Q. AS SHOWN IN THE BLOOD OF RON GOLDMAN AND
19 ORENTHAL SIMPSON?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. CAN YOU LIST FOR US THE VARIOUS TYPES.
22 WHAT ARE ALL THE NUMERICAL TYPES THAT YOU
23 CAN -- THE RANGE? FROM WHAT TO WHAT?
24 A. OKAY.
25 THE DIFFERENT POSSIBILITIES ARE GOING TO
26 INCLUDE THE SPOTS THAT WOULD BE THE 1.1, 1.2 AND 1.3. AND
27 THERE IS ALSO A 2 AND A 3 ALONG WITH A 4.
28 SO IF YOU TAKE THOSE SIX POSSIBILITIES AND YOU
455
1 TAKE EVERY SUPPOSABLE COMBINATION THAT YOU CAN GET, YOU
2 WIND UP WITH TWENTY-ONE.
3 Q. IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A 2.6 OR A 3.7?
4 A. NO.
5 Q. IS IT ONLY THE NUMERAL 1 THAT HAS THE DECIMAL
6 AND THE OTHER NUMBER AFTER IT AND THE OTHERS ARE JUST 2, 3
7 AND 4?
8 A. OKAY.
9 THE WAY THAT WORKS IS THE NUMERAL 1, OR THAT
10 ONE WAS SUBTYPED INTO THE 1.1, 1.2 AND 1.3.
11 IN ACTUALITY, THE 4 DOES HAVE SOME SUBTYPES,
12 BUT WE DON'T CONSIDER BREAKING DOWN THE 4 INTO ITS
13 SUBGROUPS BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THEY DESIGNED THE TEST.
14 THE REASON WHY THE MANUFACTURER DID THAT, TO MY
15 UNDERSTANDING, IS THE SUBTYPES THAT THEY FOUND ON THAT 4
16 WERE SO RARE THAT IT WAS INSIGNIFICANT STATISTICALLY.
17 Q. SO YOU HAVE A TYPE 1, AND THEN WITHIN THAT TYPE
18 1 YOU HAVE THE SUBTYPES OF 1.1, 1.2 AND 1.3.
19 IS THAT RIGHT?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. THEN AS TO 2, 3 AND 4, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY
22 SUBTYPES SHOWN ON THIS TEST?
23 A. FOR THIS TEST, NO.
24 Q. I'M SHOWING YOU, SIR, THE EXHIBIT PREVIOUSLY
25 MARKED AS PEOPLE'S NO. 28. THAT'S PHOTOGRAPHS -A THROUGH
26 -F.
27 DO THOSE PHOTOGRAPHIC NUMBERS CORRESPOND TO THE
28 ITEM NUMBERS OF 47, 48, 49 AND 50?
456
1 A. YES.
2 Q. THOSE ARE THE ITEM NUMBERS OF THOSE ITEMS
3 NO. 47 THROUGH 50 YOU TESTED, 48 AND 50, AND OBTAINED
4 CONCLUSIVE RESULTS.
5 IS THAT RIGHT?
6 A. YES.
7 Q. THOSE TWO ITEMS ARE SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 28 AS 113
8 AND 115. THAT WOULD BE PHOTOGRAPHS -C, -F AND -G.
9 IF YOU NEED TO STEP DOWN TO SEE MORE CLEARLY,
10 YOU CAN.
11 I'M SORRY. AND -A. YOU SHOW THE PHOTOGRAPH IN
12 113.
13 A. OKAY.
14 Q. THAT CORRESPONDS TO YOUR ITEM NO. 48?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. SO ITEM NO. 48 IS SHOWN IN -A; A CLOSE-UP OF
17 THAT IS SHOWN IN -C ON THIS EXHIBIT.
18 IS THAT RIGHT?
19 A. YES.
20 Q. ITEM NO. 50 IS SHOWN IN A PROSPECTIVE SHOT IN
21 PHOTOGRAPH -F AND A CLOSE-UP OF THAT IS SHOWN IN PHOTOGRAPH
22 -G.
23 IS THAT CORRECT?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. AND YOU OBTAINED CONCLUSIVE RESULTS ON THOSE
26 TWO ITEMS?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. WITH RESPECT TO PEOPLE'S 29, I'M JUST GOING TO
457
1 HOLD THIS AND SHOW IT TO YOU.
2 THE PHOTOGRAPH, NO. 117, WHICH IS SHOWN IN
3 PHOTOGRAPHS -B AND -C, CORRESPONDS TO YOUR ITEM NO. 52?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. YOU OBTAINED A CONCLUSIVE RESULT ON THAT AS
6 WELL?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. WITH RESPECT TO ITEMS NO. 48, 50 AND 52, FOR
9 WHICH YOU OBTAINED CONCLUSIVE RESULTS, WHAT WAS THAT
10 RESULT?
11 A. 1.1, 1.2.
12 Q. CONSISTENT WITH THE BLOOD OF ORENTHAL SIMPSON?
13 A. FOR THE H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA SYSTEM, YES.
14 MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
15 THE FOREPERSON: MR. YAMAUCHI, BEFORE YOU LEAVE,
16 PLEASE LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY TO WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO
17 YOU NOW:
18 YOU ARE ADMONISHED NOT TO REVEAL TO ANY OTHER
19 PERSON, EXCEPT AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, WHAT QUESTIONS WERE
20 ASKED OF YOU AND WHAT RESPONSES WERE GIVEN.
21 IN ADDITION, YOU ARE NOT TO REVEAL ANY OTHER
22 MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATURE OR SUBJECT OF THE
23 INVESTIGATION WHICH YOU LEARNED DURING YOUR APPEARANCE
24 HERE, UNLESS AND UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A TRANSCRIPT OF THESE
25 PROCEEDINGS IS MADE PUBLIC.
26 I WISH TO ADVISE YOU ALSO THAT A VIOLATION OF
27 THIS ORDER CAN BE THE BASIS OF A CONTEMPT CHARGE AGAINST
28 YOU.
458
1 DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
2 THE WITNESS: YES.
3 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
4 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
5
6 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
7 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
8
9 MS. CLARK: EXCUSE ME, SIR. I'M SORRY.
10 MAY I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION?
11 THE FOREPERSON: YOU MAY DO SO.
12 Q. BY MS. CLARK: THIS IS A GENERAL QUESTION,
13 SIR.
14 WERE YOU CERTIFIED IN ANY MANNER WITH RESPECT
15 TO THE TESTING THAT YOU HAVE DONE IN THIS CASE, THE METHOD
16 YOU USED, P.C.R. H.L.A. D.Q. ALPHA?
17 A. WELL, I PASSED THE CLASS BY THE MANUFACTURER OF
18 THE POLYMERASE CHAIN REACTION ANALYZATION INSTRUMENT.
19 Q. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU PERFORMED THIS TEST
20 PRIOR TO THIS CASE?
21 A. I HAVE COMPLETED THIRTY-SIX CASES.
22 Q. THIRTY-SIX CASES?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. AND HOW MANY OF THOSE CASES -- HOW LONG HAVE
25 YOU BEEN WITH THE L.A.P.D. AS AN EXPERT SEROLOGIST, SIR?
26 A. I HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR L.A.P.D. SEROLOGY FOR
27 OVER 4 YEARS NOW.
28 Q. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THE P.C.R. TESTING
459
1 FOR L.A.P.D.?
2 A. OVER 6 MONTHS.
3 Q. WAS THERE SOME FORM OF CERTIFICATION OR
4 LICENSE, I THINK, THAT YOU HAD TO HAVE TO PASS AT L.A.P.D.
5 IN ORDER TO BE QUALIFIED TO CONDUCT THE P.C.R. TESTING FOR
6 L.A.P.D. AND COME INTO COURT AND TESTIFY TO THOSE RESULTS?
7 A. WE ARE TESTED BY OUTSIDE AGENCIES, SUCH AS
8 COLLABORATIVE TESTING SERVICES AND THE COLLEGE OF AMERICAN
9 PATHOLOGISTS. WE RUN THESE TESTS AND ARE CHECKED ON THAT.
10 BEFORE I STARTED CASE WORK, OF COURSE, I HAD TO
11 RUN OVER A BATTERY OF VARIOUS TYPES OF SAMPLES AS WELL AS
12 MOCK CASES, AND ONE MOCK CASE THAT WAS SET UP BY MY
13 SUPERVISOR SPECIFICALLY, SUFFICE TO SAY, AS A LAST TEST.
14 MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
15 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
16 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
17
18 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
19 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
20
21 THE FOREPERSON: THE GRAND JURORS WILL PLEASE SECURE
22 THEIR NOTES.
23 WE ARE IN RECESS IN THIS CASE UNTIL IT COMES
24 BEFORE US AGAIN TOMORROW.
25 THE GRAND JURORS HAVE BEEN ADMONISHED REGARDING
26 DISCUSSION OF THE CASE.
27 EXCUSE ME. I THINK WE HAVE A CHANGE HERE.
28 MS. CLARK: MADAME FOREMAN, I WOULD ASK IF I COULD
460
1 ADMIT ALL OF THE EXHIBITS THAT HAVE BEEN MARKED IN THIS
2 CASE.
3 THE FOREPERSON: SO RECEIVED.
4 (RECEIVED IN EVID.: = EXHIBITS.)
5 MS. CLARK: THE PEOPLE REST.
6 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
7 THE GRAND JURORS HAVE BEEN ADMONISHED REGARDING
8 DISCUSSION OF THE CASE.
9 PLEASE REMEMBER AND FOLLOW THE ADMONISHMENT.
10 OUR SCHEDULE WILL THEN BE THAT WE ARE NOW IN
11 RECESS FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE DAY.
12 THE GRAND JURORS ARE ASKED TO RETURN TO THE
13 HEARING ROOM TOMORROW MORNING AT 9:00 O'CLOCK REGARDING
14 CLOSING ARGUMENTS AND FOLLOWED BY DELIBERATIONS WITH REGARD
15 TO THE CASE BEFORE US.
16
17 (EVENING ADJOURNMENT TAKEN.)
18 -O0O-
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