Grand Jury Testimony - June 22 & 23, 1994
311
1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, JUNE 22, 1994
2 10:25 A.M.
3 -O0O-
4
5 (AT THE BEGINNING OF THESE PROCEEDINGS,
6 20 GRAND JURORS WERE PRESENT.)
7
8 THE FOREPERSON: THIS HEARING IS NOW IN SESSION.
9 THE GRAND JURY IS CONTINUING THIS MORNING IN:
10 "NAME OF POSSIBLE DEFENDANT:
11 "ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON."
12 THE DEPUTIES DISTRICT ATTORNEY ARE MARSHA CLARK
13 AND DAVID CONN.
14 MADAME SECRETARY?
15
16 (ROLL CALLED.)
17
18 THE SECRETARY: LET THE RECORD REFLECT THERE ARE
19 TWENTY-ONE GRAND JURORS PRESENT -- EXCUSE ME -- THERE ARE
20 TWENTY GRAND JURORS PRESENT.
21 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
22 YOU MAY CONTINUE.
23 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
24 PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO CALL OFFICER RISKE.
25 THE FOREPERSON: OFFICER RISKE?
26 THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM.
27 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
28 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
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1 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
2 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
3 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
4 THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM, I DO.
5 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
6 OFFICER RISKE, PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR FULL
7 NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE.
8 THE WITNESS: ROBERT LANCE RISKE.
9 R-O-B-E-R-T L-A-N-C-E R-I-S-K-E.
10 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
11 YOU MAY PROCEED.
12 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
13
14 ROBERT LANCE RISKE,
15 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
16 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
17
18 E X A M I N A T I O N
19 BY MS. CLARK:
20 Q. OFFICER RISKE, WILL YOU PLEASE TELL THE LADIES
21 AND GENTLEMEN OF THIS JURY WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING.
22 A. I'M EMPLOYED BY LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT,
23 ASSIGNED TO PATROL, WEST L.A.
24 Q. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO ASSIGNED?
25 A. I HAVE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER 4 YEARS, BEEN
26 ASSIGNED TO WEST L.A. FOR 2-1/2.
27 Q. WHAT ARE YOUR DUTIES IN THAT CAPACITY?
28 A. JUST PATROL, ANSWERING RADIO CALLS.
313
1 Q. YOU DRIVE A PATROL CAR?
2 A. YES, MA'AM.
3 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE NIGHT OF
4 JUNE 12, 1994 OR THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF JUNE 13, 1994,
5 DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL DIRECTING YOU TO THE RESIDENCE
6 LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY IN LOS ANGELES?
7 A. NO; WE RECEIVED A CALL TO 874 SOUTH BUNDY.
8 Q. DID YOU RESPOND TO THAT LOCATION?
9 A. YES, MA'AM.
10 Q. IS THERE SUCH A NUMBER OR ADDRESS AT THAT
11 LOCATION?
12 A. YES, MA'AM.
13 Q. AND 874 WAS THE LOCATION OF WHAT KIND OF
14 RESIDENCE?
15 A. IT WAS A SINGLE-FAMILY RESIDENCE.
16 Q. AND WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE WHEN YOU ARRIVED
17 THERE?
18 A. WE OBSERVED A COUPLE WITH A DOG.
19 THEY WERE ONE HOUSE NORTH OF THE LOCATION.
20 THEY FLAGGED US DOWN.
21 Q. SORRY?
22 A. A COUPLE NORTH OF THE LOCATION, ONE HOUSE
23 NORTH OF THE LOCATION FLAGGED US DOWN AS WE ARRIVED AT 874.
24 Q. A COUPLE THAT WAS ONE DOOR NORTH OF THE CRIME
25 SCENE FLAGGED YOU DOWN?
26 A. RIGHT.
27 Q. AND THAT COUPLE THEN WAS STANDING IN FRONT OF
28 874 SOUTH BUNDY?
314
1 A. THEY WERE STANDING, I BELIEVE IT WAS, AT 870.
2 Q. AND WHERE DID THEY DIRECT YOU TO?
3 A. TO 875.
4 Q. AND DID YOU PROCEED TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
5 A. YES, MA'AM.
6 Q. THE COUPLE THAT WAS DIRECTING YOU, DID THEY
7 HAVE AN ANIMAL WITH THEM?
8 A. YES, MA'AM, A DOG.
9 Q. DID YOU EXAMINE THE DOG TO NOTE HIS APPEARANCE?
10 A. I HAD OBSERVED THE DOG TO HAVE BLOOD ON ALL
11 FOUR LEGS.
12 Q. I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAVE
13 BEEN TAKEN OF THE SCENE.
14 I WILL ASK YOU IF YOU RECOGNIZE THEM.
15 A. OKAY.
16 Q. FIRST OF ALL, SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 1.
17 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE SCENE DEPICTED THERE?
18 A. YES, MA'AM.
19 Q. WHERE WAS THAT?
20 WHAT WAS THE LOCATION?
21 A. THE LOCATION OF -A WOULD BE 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
22 Q. ALL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWN HERE, DO THEY
23 SHOW -- WITH THE EXCEPTION OF -F, WHERE ALL YOU CAN SEE IS
24 THE FACE OF THE VICTIM -- ARE ALL OF THOSE VICTIMS OF THE
25 CRIME SCENE YOU FOUND AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
26 A. YES, MA'AM.
27 Q. WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT THAT
28 SCENE?
315
1 A. IT WAS 13 AFTER MIDNIGHT.
2 Q. DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS WHEN YOU WERE
3 NOTIFIED TO PROCEED THERE?
4 A. IT WAS 9 MINUTES AFTER MIDNIGHT.
5 Q. IS THAT THE SCENE AS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 1?
6 IS THAT EXACTLY WHAT YOU FOUND WHEN YOU ARRIVED
7 THERE?
8 A. YES, MA'AM.
9 Q. SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 27, SIR.
10 DO YOU SEE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
11 A. YES, MA'AM.
12 Q. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PHOTOGRAPH -F THAT DOES
13 NOT DEPICT THE CRIME SCENE, DO YOU RECALL SEEING WHAT IS
14 DEPICTED IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B, -C, -D AND -E AT THAT SAME
15 LOCATION?
16 A. YES, MA'AM.
17 Q. AND AS SHOWN IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B, -C, -D AND
18 -E, IS THAT THE SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT?
19 A. YES, MA'AM.
20 Q. DID YOU TAKE ANY STEPS OR PRECAUTIONS TO MAKE
21 SURE THAT THE CRIME SCENE WAS PRESERVED AS YOU FOUND IT,
22 SIR?
23 A. WE TAPED OFF THE CRIME SCENE SO NOBODY CAN
24 ENTER IT.
25 Q. WHEN YOU SAY YOU "TAPED" IT, IN WHAT MANNER DID
26 YOU DO THAT?
27 A. WE USED CRIME SCENE TAPE.
28 WE ACTUALLY SECURED THE WHOLE BLOCK, THE INNER
316
1 BLOCK OF BUNDY, AND THEN WE CRIME SCENE TAPED FROM 873 TO
2 877.
3 Q. SO YOU ACTUALLY ROPED OFF FROM ONE HOUSE ABOVE
4 AND ONE HOUSE BELOW THE CRIME SCENE?
5 A. YES, MA'AM.
6 Q. DID THAT TAPE ALSO INCLUDE THE REAR AREA OF THE
7 BUILDING KNOWN AS 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
8 A. THE REAR WAS FROM THE SOUTH OF THE ALLEY OF THE
9 800 BLOCK AND JUST NORTH OF 875 BUNDY.
10 Q. DID YOU ALSO ROPE OFF THE AREA THAT -- LET ME
11 SHOW YOU A DIFFERENT PHOTOGRAPH, SIR.
12 YOU HAVE PEOPLE'S 28 NOW BEFORE YOU.
13 DO YOU SEE THAT, SIR?
14 A. YES, MA'AM.
15 Q. DO YOU RECALL THE LOCATION DEPICTED IN THOSE
16 PHOTOGRAPHS?
17 A. YES, MA'AM.
18 Q. WAS THAT ALSO TAPED OFF?
19 A. YES.
20 THAT WAS ENCOMPASSED IN THE TAPING I DESCRIBED
21 EARLIER.
22 Q. AND AFTER YOU TAPED IT OFF, DID YOU ENSURE THAT
23 NO ONE WAS PERMITTED TO WALK INTO ANY AREA THAT WAS
24 ENCLOSED BY THE TAPE?
25 A. YES, MA'AM.
26 Q. DID YOU PRESERVE IT IN THAT MANNER UNTIL THE
27 INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ARRIVED?
28 A. YES, MA'AM.
317
1 Q. THAT'S STANDARD PROCEDURE?
2 A. YES, MA'AM.
3 Q. AND NO ONE DID PASS ACROSS THE TAPE AT ANY OF
4 ITS PERIMETERS?
5 A. WELL, MYSELF AND ONE OTHER OFFICER, WE CROSSED
6 THE TAPE AND WE SEARCHED THE RESIDENCE OF THAT LOCATION.
7 Q. AND WHEN YOU DID SO, DID YOU TAKE CARE NOT TO
8 STEP IN THE BLOOD OR DISTURB ANY OF THE EVIDENCE?
9 A. YES, MA'AM.
10 Q. WHEN I SAY, "ANY OF THE EVIDENCE," I'M TALKING
11 ABOUT BLOOD DROPS OR BLOODY FOOTPRINTS.
12 A. YES, MA'AM.
13 Q. WAS ALL EVIDENCE THAT YOU FOUND AT THE SCENE
14 PRESERVED IN THE MANNER THAT YOU FOUND IT?
15 A. YES, MA'AM.
16 Q. THIS IS PEOPLE'S 26, SIR.
17 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE EVIDENCE THAT IS SHOWN IN
18 THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
19 A. YES, MA'AM, I DO.
20 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B, -C AND -E AND -F, DO
21 THOSE DEPICT THE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE AS YOU FOUND THEM AT THE
22 CRIME SCENE --
23 A. YES, MA'AM, THEY DO.
24 Q. -- IN THE LOCATION IN WHICH YOU FOUND THEM?
25 A. YES, MA'AM.
26 Q. SO THEY ARE UNDISTURBED FROM THE TIME YOU SAW
27 THEM?
28 A. YES, MA'AM; RIGHT.
318
1 Q. WHEN YOU WENT UP TO -- YOU WENT TO THE DOOR OF
2 THE RESIDENCE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
3 A. YES, MA'AM, I DID.
4 Q. FOR WHAT PURPOSE DID YOU DO THAT?
5 A. WHEN WE FIRST ARRIVED, THE DOOR WAS OPEN AND
6 MYSELF AND ANOTHER OFFICER WENT INTO THE RESIDENCE TO CHECK
7 FOR OTHER VICTIMS, POSSIBLE SUSPECTS.
8 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "OPEN," SIR, DO YOU MEAN UNLOCKED
9 OR AJAR?
10 A. IT WAS STANDING OPEN.
11 Q. HOW FAR?
12 A. THREE-QUARTERS OF THE WAY.
13 Q. DID YOU NOTICE ANY BLOODY FOOTPRINTS ON THE
14 CARPETING OR ANY EVIDENCE OF DISTURBANCE OR STRUGGLE INSIDE
15 THE HOUSE?
16 A. NO, I DIDN'T.
17 Q. DID YOU ALSO SECURE THE HOUSE AND MAKE SURE
18 THAT NO ONE WAS PERMITTED IN OR OUT AFTER YOU FOUND THAT
19 THERE WERE NO OTHER VICTIMS THERE?
20 A. YES, MA'AM.
21 Q. DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY
22 OTHER OCCUPANTS THAT WERE NOT VICTIMS IN THE SENSE OF BEING
23 ATTACKED THAT NIGHT IN THE HOUSE?
24 A. YES.
25 THERE WERE TWO JUVENILES UPSTAIRS.
26 Q. TWO CHILDREN?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. WHAT WERE THEY DOING?
319
1 A. THEY WERE SLEEPING.
2 Q. WERE THEY ASLEEP WHEN YOU FOUND THEM?
3 A. YES, MA'AM.
4 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THEM?
5 A. WE WOKE THEM UP AND ESCORTED THEM OUT OF THE
6 BACK OF THE RESIDENCE.
7 Q. AND AFTER THAT POINT?
8 A. THEY WERE TRANSPORTED TO WEST L.A. STATION.
9 Q. THE CHILDREN, WAS IT A GIRL AND BOY?
10 A. YES, MA'AM.
11 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
12 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
13 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
14 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
15 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
16
17 (SHORT PAUSE.)
18
19 Q. BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU WENT TO CHECK THE
20 RESIDENCE, 875 SOUTH BUNDY, THAT IS, THE INSIDE OF THE
21 HOUSE, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER ANY LIGHTS WERE ON?
22 A. I BELIEVE ALL THE LIGHTS WERE ON EXCEPT THE
23 LIGHTS IN THE CHILDREN'S ROOM, A COUPLE BATHROOMS AND THE
24 EXERCISE ROOM UPSTAIRS.
25 Q. SO THE HOUSE WAS FULLY LIT?
26 A. RIGHT.
27 Q. DID YOU HAPPEN TO GO -- WAS THERE A MASTER
28 BEDROOM THERE OR ONE THAT APPEARED TO YOU TO BE A MASTER
320
1 BEDROOM?
2 A. YES, MA'AM.
3 Q. WAS THAT ALSO FULLY LIT?
4 A. THE BEDROOM ITSELF WAS LIT.
5 THERE WAS -- THE BEDROOM CONNECTED TO THAT
6 BATHROOM WAS DARK, BUT THERE WERE CANDLES LIT IN THE
7 BATHROOM.
8 Q. IN THE BATHROOM?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. BUT THE BEDROOM LIGHTS WERE ON?
11 A. YES.
12 Q. WAS THE BED MADE?
13 A. NO.
14 Q. WAS IT UNMADE?
15 A. IT WAS UNMADE.
16 Q. DID IT LOOK AS THOUGH SOMEONE HAD BEEN SLEEPING
17 IN IT OR RESTING IN IT?
18 A. WELL, SOMEONE APPEARED TO HAVE BEEN IN IT.
19 Q. WERE THE COVERS TURNED DOWN?
20 A. NO. THEY WERE MORE PILED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
21 BED.
22 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
23 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
24 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
25 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
26 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
27
28 (SHORT PAUSE.)
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1
2 THE FOREPERSON: THERE BEING NO FURTHER QUESTIONS,
3 OFFICER RISKE, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, PLEASE LISTEN VERY
4 CAREFULLY TO WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU NOW:
5 YOU ARE ADMONISHED NOT TO REVEAL TO ANY OTHER
6 PERSON, EXCEPT AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, WHAT QUESTIONS WERE
7 ASKED OF YOU AND WHAT RESPONSES WERE GIVEN.
8 IN ADDITION, YOU ARE NOT TO REVEAL ANY OTHER
9 MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATURE OR SUBJECT OF THE
10 INVESTIGATION WHICH YOU LEARNED DURING YOUR APPEARANCE
11 HERE, UNLESS AND UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A TRANSCRIPT OF THESE
12 PROCEEDINGS IS MADE PUBLIC.
13 I WISH TO ADVISE YOU ALSO THAT A VIOLATION OF
14 THIS ORDER CAN BE THE BASIS OF A CONTEMPT CHARGE AGAINST
15 YOU.
16 DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
17 THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM, I DO.
18 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
19 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
20 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
21
22 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
23 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
24
25 MS. CLARK: PEOPLE WOULD CALL DETECTIVE VANNATTER.
26 THE FOREPERSON: DETECTIVE PHILLIP VANNATTER?
27 THE WITNESS: YES, MA'AM.
28 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
322
1 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
2 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
3 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
4 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
5 THE WITNESS: I DO.
6 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
7 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
8 THE FOREPERSON: DETECTIVE VANNATTER, PLEASE STATE
9 AND SPELL YOUR FULL NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE
10 MICROPHONE.
11 THE WITNESS: PHILLIP LEWIS VANNATTER.
12 P-H-I-L-I-P L-E-W-I-S V-A-N-N-A-T-T-E-R.
13 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
14 YOU MAY PROCEED.
15
16 PHILLIP LEWIS VANNATTER,
17 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
18 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
19
20 E X A M I N A T I O N
21 BY MS. CLARK:
22 Q. DETECTIVE VANNATTER, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU
23 DO FOR A LIVING, PLEASE.
24 A. YES.
25 I'M A POLICE DETECTIVE FOR THE CITY OF
26 LOS ANGELES.
27 Q. AND WHERE ARE YOU ASSIGNED, SIR?
28 A. ROBBERY/HOMICIDE DIVISION.
323
1 Q. ALL RIGHT.
2 A. HOMICIDE SPECIAL SECTION.
3 Q. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO ASSIGNED?
4 A. I HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED THERE FOR THE PAST
5 15 YEARS.
6 Q. CAN YOU TELL ME IN THE COURSE OF THAT
7 ASSIGNMENT, SIR, HOW MANY HOMICIDES HAVE YOU INVESTIGATED.
8 A. WELL, I EVEN WORKED HOMICIDE BEFORE I WORKED
9 THERE.
10 I WORKED HOMICIDE IN A COUPLE OF THE DIVISIONS
11 IN THE CITY, PROBABLY -- OH, OVER 200 THAT I WOULD HAVE TO
12 SAY I HAVE BEEN PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN.
13 Q. IS THAT OVERALL, IN TERMS OF THE ENTIRE TIME
14 THAT YOU HAVE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER?
15 A. OH, NO. I HAVE BEEN AT MANY, MANY SCENES.
16 I HAVE PERSONALLY BEEN INVOLVED IN OVER 200,
17 BUT I HAVE PROBABLY BEEN AT OVER 500 OR 600 HOMICIDE
18 SCENES.
19 Q. OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR CAREER?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. WHAT IS IT THAT YOUR SECTION DOES?
22 A. WE STRICTLY INVESTIGATE HOMICIDES.
23 WE ARE CALLED THE HOMICIDE SPECIAL SECTION. WE
24 HANDLE VERY INVOLVED CASES, HIGH-PROFILE CASES OR SERIAL
25 MURDER TYPE CASES.
26 Q. AND YOU ARE A WORKING PARTNER WITH DETECTIVE
27 TOM LANGE?
28 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
324
1 Q. AND WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO THIS CASE AS A PARTNER
2 WITH TOM LANGE, BOTH OF YOU, TO INVESTIGATE THIS CASE?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. AT WHAT POINT WERE YOU ASSIGNED THIS CASE,
5 SIR? AT WHAT TIME?
6 A. I RECEIVED THE INITIAL PHONE CALL AT
7 APPROXIMATELY 3:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING OF JUNE THE 13TH,
8 MONDAY MORNING.
9 Q. AFTER YOU RECEIVED THAT PHONE CALL, SIR, WHAT
10 DID YOU DO?
11 A. I PREPARED MYSELF AND RESPONDED TO THE SCENE.
12 Q. WHERE WAS THAT?
13 A. AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE IN WEST LOS ANGELES.
14 Q. TO YOUR RIGHT, SIR, ARE EXHIBITS PEOPLE'S 1, 28
15 AND ON THE -- JUST BELOW THE BULLETIN BOARD STANDING ON THE
16 FLOOR, PEOPLE'S 26.
17 A. YES.
18 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THESE
19 PHOTOGRAPHS?
20 A. YES, I DO.
21 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT IS.
22 A. YES.
23 THOSE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE TAKEN AT THE
24 SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE.
25 Q. THE SCENE DEPICTED THERE, IS THAT THE MANNER
26 WHICH YOU FOUND IT?
27 A. YES; THAT'S CORRECT.
28 Q. WHILE YOU WERE AT THAT SCENE, SIR, DID YOU
325
1 HAPPEN TO NOTICE THE EVIDENCE DEPICTED IN PHOTOGRAPH -A OF
2 PEOPLE'S 26?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. IF YOU CAN TELL US, SIR -- AND IT'S ALSO SHOWN
5 I BELIEVE IN PEOPLE'S 27, PHOTOGRAPH -E?
6 A. YES; THAT'S CORRECT.
7 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IT IS THAT IS BEING SHOWN
8 IN EACH OF THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I HAVE JUST DESCRIBED.
9 A. YES.
10 THAT'S A MAN'S LEATHER GLOVE, LEFT HAND.
11 Q. DID YOU REMAIN AT THAT CRIME SCENE FOR SOME
12 TIME?
13 A. I WAS AT THAT CRIME SCENE ORIGINALLY.
14 I ARRIVED AT THAT CRIME SCENE JUST SHORTLY
15 AFTER 4:00 O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING AND I LEFT THAT CRIME
16 SCENE SOME TIME SHORTLY AFTER 5:00 O'CLOCK.
17 Q. WHERE DID YOU GO?
18 A. I MET MY PARTNER AT THE CRIME SCENE.
19 WHEN I ARRIVED THERE, WEST LOS ANGELES
20 DETECTIVES HAD THE CRIME SCENE UNDER SECURITY.
21 WE DID A WALK-THROUGH OF THE CRIME SCENE,
22 LOOKED AT THE EVIDENCE AND CAME TO A DECISION THAT WE
23 NEEDED TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION, SINCE WE HAD IDENTIFIED THE
24 FEMALE VICTIM AT THAT SCENE.
25 WE HAD IDENTIFIED HER AS NICOLE SIMPSON BROWN
26 OR NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON.
27 I WAS ALSO TOLD BY WEST LOS ANGELES DETECTIVES
28 THAT THERE WERE TWO YOUNG CHILDREN THAT HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM
326
1 THE RESIDENCE, THE TWO CHILDREN OF THE SIMPSONS; THAT THEY
2 WERE PRESENTLY AT WEST LOS ANGELES POLICE STATION.
3 SO WE MADE A DETERMINATION AT THAT POINT TO
4 ATTEMPT TO LOCATE MR. SIMPSON TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION TO
5 HIM.
6 Q. WHERE DID YOU GO IN ORDER TO DO THAT?
7 A. WE DETERMINED HIS RESIDENCE LOCATION WAS AT
8 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM DRIVE IN WEST LOS ANGELES AND MYSELF,
9 MY PARTNER AND TWO WEST L.A. DETECTIVES RESPONDED TO THAT
10 LOCATION.
11 Q. THAT WAS IN BRENTWOOD?
12 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
13 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU GOT THERE?
14 A. WELL, WE WERE ATTEMPTING TO MAKE NOTIFICATION,
15 THE DEATH NOTIFICATION, AS WELL AS THE FACT THAT WE HAD THE
16 CHILDREN AND WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WE WERE GOING TO FIND
17 THERE.
18 AFTER ARRIVING THERE, WE WENT TO THE INTERCOM
19 SYSTEM THAT RINGS THE PHONE TO THE HOME, AND THAT WOULD
20 HAVE BEEN ON THE ASHFORD SIDE OF THE HOME, WHICH WOULD HAVE
21 BEEN THE NORTH GATE WHERE THE INTERCOM SYSTEM WAS LOCATED.
22 Q. EXCUSE ME, SIR.
23 I WILL PUT UP A PHOTOGRAPH SO YOU CAN POINT TO
24 IT FOR THE JURY WHILE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.
25 A. CERTAINLY.
26 Q. ALL RIGHT.
27 I HAVE PUT UP EXHIBITS PEOPLE'S 2 AND 3.
28 IF YOU WOULD, SIR -- PEOPLE'S 2 IS THE
327
1 PHOTOGRAPHS; PEOPLE'S 3 IS THE DIAGRAM.
2 IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO USE THOSE TO ILLUSTRATE TO
3 THE JURY WHAT YOU ARE TESTIFYING ABOUT, JUST IDENTIFY
4 WHETHER IT'S 2 OR 3 THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU DO
5 THAT.
6 A. CERTAINLY.
7 MAY I STAND IN FRONT OF IT WHEN I DO THAT?
8 Q. YES.
9 AND YOU HAVE A POINTER IN FRONT OF YOU.
10 A. WHEN WE FIRST RESPONDED TO THE LOCATION, WE
11 PARKED ON THE ASHFORD SIDE. WE PARKED OUR VEHICLES OVER IN
12 THIS AREA.
13 THERE IS AN INTERCOM SYSTEM THAT'S LOCATED AT
14 THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, WHICH WOULD BE THE ASHFORD
15 GATE.
16 WE ATTEMPTED TO USE THIS INTERCOM SYSTEM FOR A
17 PERIOD OF TIME AND GOT NO RESPONSE.
18 STANDING THERE AT THE GATE, WE COULD HEAR THE
19 PHONE RINGING INSIDE THE RESIDENCE WHEN WE WOULD PUNCH THE
20 BUTTON.
21 WE RECEIVED NO RESPONSE.
22 LOCATED RIGHT IN THIS AREA HERE BY THE GATE,
23 THERE IS A WESTEC SECURITY SIGN THAT INDICATES THAT THE
24 RESIDENCE IS PROTECTED BY WESTEC SECURITY, WHICH IS A
25 PRIVATE SECURITY COMPANY.
26 WE GOT IN TOUCH WITH THEM, WE MADE TELEPHONIC
27 CONTACT AND REQUESTED THEIR ASSISTANCE TO ATTEMPT TO
28 DETERMINE IF THERE WAS ANYONE IN THIS RESIDENCE.
328
1 DURING THIS POINT IN TIME WHILE WE ARE TRYING
2 TO MAKE NOTIFICATION HERE, WE OBSERVED PARKED -- OR I
3 OBSERVED PARKED OVER BY THE ROCKINGHAM GATE HEADED NORTH A
4 1994 WHITE FORD BRONCO. IT WAS HEADED NORTH AT WHAT WOULD
5 BE THE EAST CURB OF ROCKINGHAM JUST NORTH OF THE GATE.
6 THE VEHICLE WAS SLIGHTLY COCKED WITH THE FRONT
7 END CLOSER TO THE CURB THAN THE REAR END OF THE VEHICLE,
8 LIKE IT HAD BEEN HURRIEDLY PULLED UP AND PARKED AT THE CURB
9 AND NOT PARKED IN A STRAIGHT ANGLE.
10 AFTER THE ARRIVAL OF WESTEC SECURITY, WE
11 OBTAINED THE PHONE NUMBER TO THE RESIDENCE AND ATTEMPTED TO
12 MAKE SEVERAL PHONE CALLS BY CELLULAR PHONE TO AROUSE
13 SOMEONE IN THE RESIDENCE.
14 WE RECEIVED NO ANSWER. ALL WE GOT WAS AN
15 ANSWER PHONE INSIDE THE HOME.
16 DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME, WE DETERMINED --
17 Q. HOW DID YOU DETERMINE THAT THE ANSWER PHONE
18 THAT WAS ANSWERING WAS INSIDE THE HOME?
19 A. IT WAS A PHONE NUMBER THAT WAS SUPPLIED TO US
20 BY WESTEC SECURITY TO THE RESIDENCE.
21 Q. WHEN THE ANSWER PHONE PICKED UP THE CALL,
22 WHAT DID IT SAY?
23 A. THE VOICE ON THE PHONE INDICATED THAT IT WAS
24 O.J.
25 Q. O.J. SIMPSON?
26 A. O.J.
27 Q. JUST O.J.?
28 A. YES.
329
1 WE ALSO QUESTIONED WESTEC SECURITY AT THAT
2 POINT IF THEY HAD ANY NOTIFICATION THAT THE PEOPLE OF THIS
3 RESIDENCE WERE HOME OR WHETHER THEY WERE OUT OF TOWN OR
4 WHATEVER, AND WESTEC INFORMED US THAT THEY --
5 Q. EXCUSE ME. DON'T TELL US WHAT WESTEC TOLD
6 YOU.
7 BUT THEY DID TELL YOU SOMETHING?
8 A. YES.
9 Q. BASED ON WHAT THEY TOLD YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO?
10 A. AT THAT POINT, GOING BACK TO THE VEHICLE, WE
11 HAD OBSERVED BLOOD ON THE VEHICLE, ON THE DOOR HANDLE, THE
12 DRIVER'S DOOR HANDLE OF THE VEHICLE, OR WHAT APPEARED TO BE
13 BLOOD.
14 AT THAT POINT, WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF
15 SITUATION WE HAD.
16 ONE OF THE DETECTIVES WITH ME CLIMBED OVER THE
17 FENCE AT THIS POINT AND OPENED THE GATE.
18 Q. FOR THE RECORD, YOU ARE REFERRING TO
19 PEOPLE'S 3, THE ASHFORD SIDE GATE?
20 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
21 Q. AFTER WE OPENED THE GATE, PROCEEDED TO THE
22 FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE AND ATTEMPTED TO AROUSE SOMEONE
23 IN THE HOME AND WAS UNABLE TO DO SO.
24 WE THEN STARTED SECURING THE PROPERTY, NOT
25 KNOWING WHAT WE HAD.
26 WE WENT AROUND THE NORTH SIDE OF THE PROPERTY
27 TO THE REAR WHERE THERE ARE APPARENTLY GUEST QUARTERS.
28 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "NOT KNOWING WHAT WE HAD," SIR,
330
1 WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
2 WHAT WERE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT?
3 A. WELL, AT THAT POINT, OBSERVING BLOOD OUT HERE,
4 WE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER WE HAD ANOTHER MURDER SCENE OR NOT.
5 IT'S QUITE CONCEIVABLE THAT KNOWING THAT THE
6 EX-WIFE OF MR. SIMPSON HAD BEEN MURDERED WITHIN A VERY
7 CLOSE DISTANCE OF HIS RESIDENCE, SOMETHING COULD HAVE
8 OCCURRED THERE, TOO.
9 AND, RECEIVING NO RESPONSE FROM THE HOME, WE
10 HAD NO IDEA WHAT OCCURRED.
11 SO WE WENT TO THE REAR AREA OF THE HOUSE TO
12 WHAT APPEARED TO BE GUEST QUARTERS AND STARTED KNOCKING ON
13 THOSE DOORS IN AN ATTEMPT TO FIND OUT IF THERE WAS ANYBODY
14 AT THE LOCATION.
15 WHEN WE DID THAT, AT THE FIRST QUARTER, WE
16 AROUSED A PERSON WHO IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS "KATO," WHO
17 LATER TOLD US HIS NAME WAS BRIAN KAELIN.
18 HE TOLD US --
19 Q. IS THAT ONE OF THE WITNESSES YOU ASSISTED IN
20 ARRIVING TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE GRAND JURY?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
22 HE TOLD US THAT THE OTHER GUEST QUARTERS --
23 Q. EXCUSE ME.
24 WITHOUT TELLING US WHAT HE SAID, DID HE GIVE
25 YOU SOME INFORMATION, SIR?
26 A. YES, HE DID.
27 Q. AND, BASED ON WHAT HE TOLD YOU, WHAT DID YOU
28 DO?
331
1 A. WE KNOCKED AT THE OTHER GUEST QUARTER DOOR AND
2 AROUSED THE FEMALE WHO IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS ARNELL
3 SIMPSON, THE DAUGHTER OF O.J. SIMPSON.
4 Q. DID YOU THEN HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HER?
5 A. YES.
6 Q. AND AFTER YOU HAD THE CONVERSATION WITH HER,
7 WHAT DID YOU DO?
8 A. WE GAINED ADMITTANCE TO THE HOUSE AND, WITH HER
9 ASSISTANCE, CONTACTED MR. SIMPSON BY TELEPHONE.
10 Q. DID YOU SPEAK TO MR. SIMPSON OR WERE YOU
11 PRESENT WHEN SOMEONE ELSE DID SO?
12 A. I WAS PRESENT, YES.
13 Q. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
14 A. IT WAS BEGINNING TO LIGHTEN UP.
15 WE WALKED OUTSIDE TO MAKE SURE NOTHING WAS
16 WRONG WITH THE RESIDENCE AND EVERYTHING WAS OKAY, AND WE
17 WERE LOOKING AROUND THE HOUSE TO MAKE SURE NOTHING HAD
18 OCCURRED AT THE HOME.
19 AND ON THE -- WHICH WOULD BE THE SOUTH SIDE OF
20 THE RESIDENCE, IN THIS WALKWAY --
21 MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS IS POINTING
22 TO THE AREA JUST BELOW THE GARAGE BETWEEN THE SOUTHERNMOST
23 PORTION OF THE GARAGE WALL AND THE BOUNDARY LINE OF THE
24 PROPERTY, WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY MARKED BY ANOTHER WITNESS
25 WITH A CIRCLE AND A LINE.
26 THE WITNESS: IT'S A VERY NARROW WALKWAY BETWEEN THE
27 HOUSE AND THE FENCE THAT APPARENTLY SEPARATES THE TWO
28 PROPERTIES FROM THE OTHER PROPERTY THAT WOULD BE SOUTH OF
332
1 THAT LOCATION.
2 I WAS DIRECTED BY ANOTHER DETECTIVE WHO
3 PRECEDED ME IN THERE TO A MAN'S GLOVE THAT WAS LYING IN
4 THIS AREA.
5 Q. BY MS. CLARK: MAY I SHOW YOU ANOTHER
6 PHOTOGRAPH?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. SHOWING YOU NOW PEOPLE'S 4.
9 DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 4?
10 A. YES, I DO.
11 Q. TELL US WHAT YOU SEE.
12 A. -A AND -B DEPICT THE AREA ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF
13 THE HOUSE THAT I HAD PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED BETWEEN THE
14 ACTUAL EXTERIOR WALL AND THE FENCE OF THE ADJOINING
15 PROPERTY.
16 -C, -D AND -E DEPICT THE LEATHER GLOVE THAT I
17 OBSERVED LYING ON THE GROUND THERE IN THIS AREA, THE MAN'S
18 LEATHER GLOVE THAT IS A RIGHT-HANDED GLOVE.
19 Q. IS THAT THE GLOVE YOU WERE DESCRIBING THAT YOU
20 HAD BEEN DIRECTED TO SEE BY ANOTHER DETECTIVE?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
22 Q. IS IT DEPICTED IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS AS YOU
23 FOUND IT?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. NOW, YOU HAD BEEN TO THE ORIGINAL CRIME SCENE.
26 IS THAT CORRECT?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. AND YOU TOLD US EARLIER THAT YOU HAD SEEN A
333
1 GLOVE THERE.
2 IS THAT CORRECT?
3 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
4 Q. WHEN YOU SAW THE GLOVE DEPICTED IN THE
5 PHOTOGRAPHS YOU HAVE JUST POINTED TO IN PEOPLE'S 4, I
6 BELIEVE, DID SOMETHING SEIZE YOUR ATTENTION?
7 A. YES.
8 THE GLOVE I SAW AT THE SOUTH SIDE OF
9 MR. SIMPSON RESIDENCE APPEARED TO BE THE RIGHT GLOVE TO THE
10 LEFT GLOVE THAT I HAD OBSERVED AT THE ORIGINAL CRIME
11 SCENE.
12 THEY APPEARED TO BE THE MATCHING RIGHT AND LEFT
13 GLOVES.
14 Q. NOW, DID YOU ASK OR MAKE A REQUEST THAT THOSE
15 GLOVES BE PHOTOGRAPHED TOGETHER IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE
16 THE MATCHING PAIR?
17 A. YES, I DID.
18 MS. CLARK: MADAME FOREMAN, I WILL ASK TO BE MARKED
19 TWO MORE PHOTOGRAPHS. THESE ARE OF BROWN LEATHER GLOVES.
20 I WOULD LIKE THE FIRST PHOTOGRAPH SHOWING THE
21 BACK OF THE HAND OF THE GLOVES MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 30.
22 THE FOREPERSON: SO ORDERED.
23 (MARKED FOR I.D.: = EXHIBIT 30.)
24 MS. CLARK: THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH IS ALSO OF BROWN
25 LEATHER GLOVES, SHOWING THE PALM SIDE OF THE GLOVES.
26 I WOULD ASK THAT BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 31.
27 THE FOREPERSON: SO ORDERED.
28 (MARKED FOR I.D.: = EXHIBIT 31.)
334
1 Q. BY MS. CLARK: YOU HAVE NOW PEOPLE'S 30 AND 31
2 IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR.
3 A. YES.
4 Q. ARE THOSE THE GLOVES THAT YOU FOUND
5 RESPECTIVELY AT THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THE
6 HOME OF MR. SIMPSON AT 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE IN BRENTWOOD?
7 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
8 Q. NOW, I'M SHOWING YOU PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAVE
9 COLLECTIVELY BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 5.
10 YOU DESCRIBED A FORD BRONCO IN WHICH YOU SAW
11 BLOOD ON THE DRIVER'S HANDLE.
12 A. YES.
13 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B AND -C, ARE THOSE THE
14 PHOTOGRAPHS OF THAT FORD BRONCO, SIR?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. AND THE MAN POINTING TO A HANDLE IN
17 PHOTOGRAPH -A, DO YOU RECOGNIZE HIM?
18 A. YES, I DO.
19 Q. WHO IS THAT?
20 A. THAT'S A CRIMINALIST FOR THE LOS ANGELES POLICE
21 DEPARTMENT, DENNIS FUNG.
22 Q. DID YOU REQUEST THAT HE COME TO TEST THE BLOOD
23 ON THE HANDLE OF THAT DOOR?
24 A. I DID, YES.
25 Q. AFTER SEEING THE GLOVE THAT YOU BELIEVED TO BE
26 A MATE FOR THE ONE YOU SAW AT THE CRIME SCENE, WHAT DID YOU
27 DO NEXT?
28 A. WELL, AS I HAD STATED BEFORE, IT HAD BEGAN TO
335
1 LIGHTEN UP. IT WAS GETTING LIGHT TO WHERE YOU COULD SEE
2 REAL WELL.
3 AND AFTER COMING BACK TO THE FRONT OF THE
4 RESIDENCE, I OBSERVED BLOOD DROPS IN THE FRONT OF THE
5 DRIVEWAY THAT LED, APPARENTLY, FROM THE BRONCO TO THE FRONT
6 DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
7 I ALSO OBSERVED AT THAT POINT SOME BLOOD DROPS
8 INSIDE THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
9 I SECURED THE LOCATION, MOVED EVERYBODY OUT OF
10 THE HOUSE AND SECURED IT AND WROTE A SEARCH WARRANT FOR THE
11 PROPERTY AT THAT TIME.
12 Q. AGAIN, SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 5, SIR.
13 CAN YOU TELL ME WITH RESPECT TO PHOTOGRAPHS -C,
14 -D, -E, -F, -G AND -H -- FIRST OF ALL, LET ME BACK UP AND
15 ASK YOU:
16 DID YOU DIRECT THAT CERTAIN PHOTOGRAPHS BE
17 TAKEN AT THE PROPERTY OF 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE?
18 A. YES, I DID.
19 Q. AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I'M SHOWING YOU NOW IN
20 PEOPLE'S 5, WERE THOSE TAKEN AT YOUR DIRECTION AND YOUR
21 REQUEST?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO DEPICT IN PHOTOGRAPHS
24 -C THROUGH -H?
25 A. THE TRAIL OF BLOOD DROPS THAT LED FROM THE AREA
26 OF THE FORD BRONCO TO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE AND
27 THE BLOOD DROPS INSIDE THE RESIDENCE.
28 Q. AND THOSE WERE THE BLOOD DROPS THAT YOU HAVE
336
1 JUST DESCRIBED AS SEEING THERE?
2 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
3 Q. IN PEOPLE'S 2, SIR, CAN YOU TELL ME IN
4 PHOTOGRAPHS -D, -E AND -F WHAT YOU WERE ATTEMPTING TO HAVE
5 DEPICTED IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS.
6 A. YES.
7 THAT SHOWS -- STARTING HERE AT PHOTOGRAPH -F,
8 THAT WOULD SHOW EAST FROM THE ROCKINGHAM GATE LEADING TO
9 THE RESIDENCE, AND WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO SHOW THE TRAIL OF
10 BLOOD DROPS THAT LEAD FROM THE STREET AREA, WHICH WOULD BE
11 IN HERE WHERE THE VEHICLE WOULD HAVE BEEN PARKED UP THE
12 DRIVEWAY INTO THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESIDENCE.
13 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPH -C, SIR, OFF TO THE RIGHT OF THE
14 PHOTOGRAPH AS YOU FACE IT, THERE APPEARS TO BE A WHITE
15 VEHICLE.
16 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?
17 A. YES, I DO.
18 THAT'S THE FORD BRONCO THAT WAS PARKED AT THE
19 CURB THERE.
20 Q. IS THAT THE POSITION IN WHICH YOU FOUND IT WHEN
21 YOU ARRIVED AT THE RESIDENCE THAT NIGHT OR EARLY MORNING
22 HOURS?
23 A. YES, IT IS.
24 Q. I BELIEVE YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WENT TO SECURE
25 A SEARCH WARRANT FOR THE LOCATION OF 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE.
26 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
27 Q. AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
28 A. AFTER SECURING THE SEARCH WARRANT, I RETURNED
337
1 TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION.
2 WHEN I RETURNED THERE, I ENTERED THE ROCKINGHAM
3 GATE, WHICH WOULD BE ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE.
4 AS I'M WALKING THROUGH THE GATE, I OBSERVED A
5 MR. HOWARD WEITZMAN, A DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AND ANOTHER
6 ATTORNEY WHO IDENTIFIED HIMSELF AS LEROY TATE STANDING BY
7 THE GATE.
8 Q. LEROY TAFT?
9 A. TAFT, I'M SORRY, STANDING BY THE GATE.
10 I RECOGNIZED MR. WEITZMAN FROM PRIOR CONTACTS.
11 HE TOLD ME HE WAS THERE REPRESENTING --
12 Q. EXCUSE ME, SIR, PLEASE.
13 A. SORRY.
14 MS. CLARK: THE JURY IS REQUESTED TO DISREGARD ANY
15 STATEMENTS BY MR. WEITZMAN.
16 Q. YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH HIM?
17 A. YES, I DID.
18 Q. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE CONVERSATION?
19 A. I ENTERED THE LOCATION.
20 I HAD PREVIOUSLY INSTRUCTED UNIFORMED OFFICERS
21 THAT THIS WAS A SECURE RESIDENCE; THAT IF MR. SIMPSON
22 ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION, TO KEEP HIM FROM COMING INTO THE
23 LOCATION.
24 SHORTLY AFTER GETTING THERE, I WAS INSIDE, I
25 LOOKED OUT THE OPEN FRONT DOOR AND OBSERVED MR. SIMPSON AT
26 THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE OUT ON THE FRONT LAWN.
27 I RESPONDED TO HIS LOCATION AND SPOKE WITH HIM.
28 Q. DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ON EITHER OF
338
1 HIS HANDS?
2 A. YES, I DID.
3 Q. WHAT DID YOU SEE?
4 A. HE HAD A BANDAGE ON THE MIDDLE FINGER OF HIS
5 LEFT HAND IN THE MAJOR KNUCKLE AREA OF HIS HAND.
6 Q. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
7 A. I SPOKE WITH MR. SIMPSON.
8 HE REQUESTED TO SPEAK WITH HIS ATTORNEY,
9 MR. WEITZMAN.
10 MS. CLARK: THE JURY IS ASKED TO DISREGARD THAT
11 STATEMENT.
12 Q. MR. SIMPSON MADE A REQUEST, SIR?
13 A. YES, HE DID.
14 Q. AND WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
15 A. I ALLOWED MR. SIMPSON TO SPEAK WITH HIS
16 ATTORNEY.
17 Q. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
18 A. I LEFT WITH HIM AND PROCEDED TO PARKER CENTER
19 DOWNTOWN.
20 Q. WHEN YOU WENT TO PARKER CENTER, WAS MR. SIMPSON
21 RESTRAINED IN ANY MANNER?
22 A. NO.
23 Q. HE WENT WITH YOU VOLUNTARILY?
24 A. YES.
25 Q. WHEN YOU GOT TO PARKER CENTER, DID YOU HAVE AN
26 INTERVIEW WITH HIM?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. WAS MR. WEITZMAN PRESENT AT PARKER CENTER?
339
1 A. YES.
2 Q. WAS HE PRESENT IN THE ROOM WITH YOU WHEN YOU
3 INTERVIEWED MR. SIMPSON?
4 A. NO.
5 Q. NOW, BEFORE SPEAKING TO MR. SIMPSON, DID YOU
6 ADVISE HIM OF HIS RIGHTS?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. DID YOU DO SO FROM A CARD OR FROM MEMORY?
9 A. I DID IT FROM MEMORY.
10 Q. CAN YOU DO IT FOR US NOW AS YOU DID IT FOR
11 MR. SIMPSON AT THAT TIME.
12 A. CERTAINLY.
13 "YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.
14 "IF YOU GIVE UP THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT,
15 ANYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A
16 COURT OF LAW.
17 "YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK TO AN ATTORNEY AND
18 TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY PRESENT DURING QUESTIONING.
19 "IF YOU SO DESIRE AND CANNOT AFFORD ONE, AN
20 ATTORNEY WILL BE APPOINTED FOR YOU WITHOUT CHARGE BEFORE
21 QUESTIONING."
22 Q. AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?
23 A. I ASKED HIM IF HE UNDERSTOOD THOSE RIGHTS.
24 AND HE STATED, "YES," HE DID.
25 I ASKED HIM IF HE WISHED TO GIVE UP HIS RIGHT
26 TO REMAIN SILENT AND TALK WITH US, WITH HIS ATTORNEY'S
27 KNOWLEDGE.
28 AND HE SAID, "YES."
340
1 Q. AND THEN YOU SPOKE TO HIM?
2 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
3 Q. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO RELATE TO US WHAT HE
4 TOLD YOU ABOUT THE EVENTS ON THE DATE OF JUNE 12, 1994.
5 A. OKAY.
6 HE TOLD US DURING THE INTERVIEW THAT HE HAD
7 BEEN DIVORCED FROM NICOLE BROWN FOR 2 YEARS; THAT ACTUALLY
8 THEY HAD BEEN APART LONGER THAN THAT.
9 HE SAID THAT THEY HAD BEEN ATTEMPTING TO GET
10 BACK TOGETHER IN THE PAST YEAR, BUT ABOUT 3 WEEKS PRIOR TO
11 THIS DATE THAT THEY HAD DECIDED THAT IT WASN'T WORKING AND
12 THEY WERE JUST GOING TO GIVE IT UP. IT JUST WASN'T GOING
13 TO WORK ANYMORE.
14 I THEN TOOK HIM TO THE EVENING OF JUNE 12 AND
15 ASKED HIM ABOUT THAT EVENING.
16 HE SAID THAT HE HAD GONE TO HIS DAUGHTER'S
17 RECITAL THAT EVENING. HE SAID THAT NICOLE AND THE
18 CHILDREN WERE THERE AS WELL AS A NUMBER OF NICOLE'S FAMILY
19 MEMBERS.
20 HE SAID HE SAT APART FROM THEM AT THE RECITAL
21 AND DID NOT TALK TO NICOLE THERE.
22 HE SAID AFTER THE RECITAL, HE SPOKE WITH
23 NICOLE'S MOTHER AND THAT SHE TOLD HIM THAT THEY WERE GOING
24 TO DINNER AND INVITED HIM TO GO, WHICH HE DECLINED.
25 HE SAID HE LEFT THE RECITAL APPROXIMATELY 6:30
26 TO 7 THAT EVENING AND WENT BACK HOME.
27 AND HE SAID HE WAS DRIVING HIS ROLLS ROYCE.
28 Q. TO THE RECITAL?
341
1 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
2 Q. SO HE DROVE HOME FROM THE RECITAL IN HIS ROLLS
3 ROYCE?
4 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
5 Q. WHAT HAPPENED WHEN HE GOT HOME?
6 A. HE SAID AFTER GETTING HOME, HE CHANGED CARS, HE
7 GOT INTO HIS FORD BRONCO, BECAUSE HIS TELEPHONE WAS IN THE
8 BRONCO, AND HE SAID HE WENT OUT DRIVING, ATTEMPTING TO FIND
9 HIS GIRLFRIEND.
10 HE SAID HE TRIED TO CALL HER AND DROVE BY THE
11 LOCATION AND HE COULDN'T FIND HER.
12 HE SAID HE RETURNED HOME, ARRIVING -- HE SAYS
13 HE PARKED THE BRONCO SOME TIME AROUND 8 OR 9 THAT EVENING,
14 HE SAID.
15 AND HE SAID THE BRONCO WAS HIS CAR; THAT HE HAD
16 PARKED IT AT THE LOCATION WHERE WE FOUND IT.
17 HE SAID THAT AFTER HE ARRIVED HOME, THE ONLY
18 PERSON THAT WAS THERE WAS "KATO" AND THAT HE HAD SPENT SOME
19 TIME WITH "KATO"; THAT HE HAD GONE OUT A LITTLE LATER AND
20 GOT SOME HAMBURGERS.
21 HE SAID THAT THEY HAD DRIVEN THE ROLLS ROYCE
22 WHEN THEY WENT OUT TO GET THE HAMBURGERS AND HE SAID --
23 THEN HE SAID HE RETURNED TO THE HOUSE AND STARTED PREPARING
24 TO LEAVE FOR A TRIP TO CHICAGO TO PLAY IN A GOLF TOURNAMENT
25 FOR HERTZ.
26 Q. SO HE INDICATED HE HAD GONE TO THE RECITAL IN
27 THE ROLLS ROYCE AND GOT HOME AROUND 7:00 O'CLOCK?
28 A. HE SAID HE LEFT THE RECITAL AROUND 6:30 TO 7,
342
1 YES, AND WENT DIRECTLY HOME.
2 Q. AND THAT HE SWITCHED INTO THE FORD
3 BRONCO --
4 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
5 Q. -- AND DROVE AROUND IN THAT FOR AWHILE?
6 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
7 Q. THEN LATER ON THAT EVENING, HE WENT OUT WITH
8 "KATO" IN THE ROLLS AGAIN TO GET THE BURGERS?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. DID HE INDICATE WHETHER ANYONE ELSE WAS
11 PERMITTED TO DRIVE THE FORD BRONCO?
12 A. YES.
13 HE SAID HE WAS THE PRIMARY DRIVER, BUT HE
14 OCCASIONALLY LET HIS HOUSEKEEPER USE IT FOR ERRANDS.
15 BUT HE SAID THAT HE HAD PARKED IT WHERE WE
16 FOUND IT HIMSELF THAT EVENING ON THE STREET ON THE
17 ROCKINGHAM SIDE.
18 Q. HIS HOUSEKEEPER, DID HE NAME HER AS GIGI?
19 A. YES.
20 Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU HOW MANY TIMES IT WAS
21 THAT HE HAD GONE OUT OF THE HOUSE THAT NIGHT, THAT DAY?
22 A. YES.
23 I BELIEVE HE HAD STATED THAT HE HAD GONE OUT
24 TWICE, I BELIEVE IT WAS, ONCE TO BUY FLOWERS FOR HIS
25 DAUGHTER FOR THE RECITAL AND THEN TO THE RECITAL WAS THE
26 ONLY TWO TIMES HE HAD LEFT THE HOUSE THAT SUNDAY.
27 Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU HOW MANY TIMES HE DROVE
28 THE FORD BRONCO ON THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH?
343
1 A. YES; TWICE.
2 Q. DID HE TELL YOU WHEN THE LAST TIME WAS HE DROVE
3 IT THAT DAY?
4 A. YES.
5 AFTER ARRIVING HOME FROM THE RECITAL, HE SAID
6 HE HAD GONE OUT IN THE FORD BRONCO TO LOOK FOR HIS
7 GIRLFRIEND; THAT HE HAD DRIVEN AROUND AND TRIED TO CALL HER
8 AND HAD RETURNED TO THE RESIDENCE AT SOME TIME AROUND
9 8:00 O'CLOCK OR 9:00 O'CLOCK AND PARKED IT ON THE STREET.
10 HE SAID HE FIRST DROVE INTO THE DRIVEWAY, TOOK
11 SOME STUFF OUT OF IT AND THEN TOOK THAT INTO THE HOUSE AND
12 THEN CAME BACK AND MOVED IT BACK ONTO THE STREET WHERE IT
13 WAS PARKED.
14 Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU WHAT HE DID AFTER
15 GETTING THE BURGERS WITH "KATO"?
16 A. I BELIEVE HE SAID HE WAS IN THE JACUZZI FOR
17 AWHILE AND THEN STARTED PREPARING TO LEAVE FOR HIS 11:45
18 FLIGHT TO CHICAGO.
19 Q. DID HE INDICATE IT WAS HE OR KATO THAT DID THE
20 JACUZZI, IF YOU RECALL?
21 A. I DON'T REALLY RECALL AT THIS TIME.
22 Q. DID YOU ASK HIM ABOUT HOW HE GOT THE INJURY TO
23 HIS HAND?
24 A. YES.
25 WHEN I TALKED TO HIM ABOUT THE INJURY -- I HAD
26 PREVIOUSLY NOTICED THE BANDAGE ON HIS LEFT HAND AND I ASKED
27 HIM HOW HE HAD INJURED HIS HAND.
28 AND HE SAID THAT HE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW.
344
1 HE SAYS HE MUST HAVE INJURED IT SOMETIME THAT
2 EVENING WHILE HE WAS PREPARING TO LEAVE ON THE TRIP.
3 HIS EXPLANATION WAS HE WAS VERY BUSY AND HE WAS
4 RUSHING AROUND AND THAT HE MUST HAVE INJURED IT, BUT HE
5 DIDN'T REALLY KNOW HOW HE HAD DONE THAT.
6 THEN I TALKED TO HIM ABOUT -- OR WE TALKED TO
7 HIM ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF HIS BLOOD BEING AT 875 SOUTH
8 BUNDY.
9 WE ASKED HIM WHEN HE HAD BEEN THERE LAST, AND
10 HE SAID HE HAD LAST BEEN AT HER RESIDENCE, HE BELIEVED,
11 ABOUT A WEEK PRIOR AND HAD BEEN IN HER HOUSE MAYBE 5 TO 7
12 DAYS PRIOR.
13 AND WE ASKED HIM, "WERE YOU INJURED OR ANYTHING
14 WHILE YOU WERE OVER THERE? COULD YOU HAVE BEEN DROPPING
15 ANY BLOOD?"
16 AND HE SAID, "NO," HE WASN'T INJURED AND HE
17 COULDN'T HAVE BEEN DROPPING ANY BLOOD.
18 Q. DID HE INDICATE WHEN HE HAD GOTTEN THAT CUT?
19 A. YES; THE EVENING OF JUNE THE 12TH, SOMETIME
20 BETWEEN THE RECITAL AND THE TIME HE LEFT THE HOME.
21 Q. BUT DID HE TELL YOU HOW THAT HAPPENED?
22 A. NO.
23 HE SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW. HE SAID HE COULDN'T
24 REMEMBER HOW HE INJURED HIMSELF.
25 Q. DID HE INDICATE TO YOU THAT HE HAD DONE
26 ANYTHING TO MAKE THE BLEEDING STOP BEFORE HE LEFT FOR
27 CHICAGO WHILE HE WAS STILL IN HIS HOUSE?
28 A. WELL, YEAH.
345
1 HE INDICATED TO US WHEN I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE
2 BLOOD DROPS THAT THE BLOOD DROPS WERE HIS AND THAT HE HAD
3 NOTICED DURING THE EVENING THAT HE WAS BLEEDING AND THAT HE
4 HAD GRABBED SOMETHING AND WRAPPED IT ON HIS HAND AND THE
5 BLEEDING HAD STOPPED.
6 AND THEN I ASKED HIM, "WELL, DID YOU INJURE
7 YOURSELF ANY OTHER TIME OR WERE YOU HURT BACK IN CHICAGO?"
8 AND HE SAYS, "WELL, YEAH, I BROKE A GLASS BACK
9 THERE. I WAS UPSET WHEN I GOT A CALL FROM YOU AND I MUST
10 HAVE REINJURED MYSELF."
11 AND HE SAID HE PUT BAND-AIDS ON HIS CUT BACK IN
12 CHICAGO.
13 Q. SO HE PUT SOMETHING ON IT BOTH HERE AND IN
14 CHICAGO?
15 A. YES. BUT HE COULDN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY.
16 HE SAYS, "I MUST HAVE GRABBED A TOWEL OR NAPKIN
17 OR SOMETHING AND PUT IT ON MY HAND AND THE BLEEDING STOPPED
18 WHILE I WAS HERE."
19 Q. WERE YOU PRESENT DURING THE SERVICE OF THE
20 SEARCH WARRANT, SIR?
21 A. DURING A PORTION OF IT. NOT THE ENTIRE TIME.
22 Q. WERE YOU MADE AWARE OR DID YOU REVIEW THE
23 EVIDENCE THAT WAS SEIZED PURSUANT TO THAT SEARCH WARRANT?
24 A. YES, I DID.
25 Q. DID THE SEARCH WARRANT SPECIFICALLY DIRECT YOU
26 TO LOOK FOR ITEMS CONTAINING BLOOD?
27 A. YES.
28 Q. ANY MATERIAL OR SUBSTANCE OF ANY KIND THAT
346
1 MIGHT CONTAIN BLOOD?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE ANY NAPKINS OR TOWELS THAT
4 CONTAINED FRESH BLOOD STAINS?
5 A. NO.
6 Q. DID YOU INQUIRE OF MR. SIMPSON AS TO WHAT
7 CLOTHES HE WORE ON SUNDAY, JUNE THE 12TH?
8 A. YES, I DID.
9 Q. AND WHAT DID HE TELL YOU?
10 A. HE SAID THAT DURING THE DAY HE WORE CLOTHES
11 THAT WERE LIKE HE WEARS ON THE GOLF COURSE, A WHITE SHIRT,
12 DARK SLACKS.
13 AND I ALSO ASKED HIM WHAT HE HAD WORN TO THE
14 RECITAL THAT EVENING, AND HE SAID HE HAD WORN, HE BELIEVED,
15 A T-SHIRT, PAIR OF DARK SLACKS AND SOME REEBOK TENNIS
16 SHOES.
17 Q. AT THE TIME THAT YOU INTERVIEWED HIM, SIR, WHAT
18 WAS HE WEARING?
19 A. HE HAD ON A WHITE LIKE GOLF SHIRT, A PAIR OF
20 BLACK SLACKS, DARK COLORED SLACKS, AND A PAIR OF DARK
21 COLORED SLIP-ON SANDAL TYPE SHOES.
22 Q. AND SO WHEN YOU ASKED HIM IF THE BLOOD YOU
23 FOUND DRIPPED AROUND THE HOUSE WAS HIS, WHAT WAS HIS REPLY?
24 A. YES, IT WAS.
25 Q. AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE INTERVIEW, SIR, DID
26 YOU DO SOMETHING WITH RESPECT TO MEMORIALIZING THE
27 CONDITION OF HIS FINGER?
28 A. YES, I DID.
347
1 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO?
2 A. I ASKED HIM IF WE COULD TAKE HIM AND PHOTOGRAPH
3 THE FINGER.
4 AND HE STATED, "YES."
5 SO I WALKED HIM DIRECTLY TO THE PHOTOGRAPHY LAB
6 AND HAD THAT DONE.
7 Q. DID YOU ALSO ATTEMPT TO RETRIEVE A BLOOD SAMPLE
8 FROM HIM?
9 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
10 Q. WAS THAT DONE AT THE SAME TIME?
11 A. YES.
12 A VOLUNTARY BLOOD SAMPLE WAS TAKEN AT THE JAIL
13 DIVISION, DISPENSARY SECTION.
14 MS. CLARK: MADAME FOREMAN, I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THE
15 NEXT EXHIBIT, WHICH IS A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS -A THROUGH
16 -C, PEOPLE'S 32.
17 THE FOREPERSON: SO ORDERED.
18 (MARKED FOR I.D.: = EXHIBIT 32.)
19 Q. BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU NOW PEOPLE'S 32,
20 SIR.
21 CAN YOU TELL ME IN PHOTOGRAPH -A IF YOU KNOW
22 WHAT IS THAT A PICTURE OF?
23 A. YES.
24 THAT'S A PICTURE OF THE LEFT HAND, MIDDLE
25 FINGER OF MR. SIMPSON, THE INJURY ON HIS HAND.
26 Q. IS THAT A PICTURE TAKEN AT YOUR DIRECTION, SIR?
27 A. THAT IS CORRECT; YES.
28 Q. WHAT ABOUT -B AND -C?
348
1 A. THOSE ARE THE TWO GLOVES; ONE FOUND AT THE
2 CRIME SCENE, ONE FOUND AT THE HOME OF MR. SIMPSON.
3 Q. I'M SHOWING YOU PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAVE BEEN
4 MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 21. THESE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS -A THROUGH
5 -D.
6 CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS
7 DEPICTED IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS.
8 A. YES, I RECOGNIZE THAT.
9 Q. WHAT IS IT?
10 A. THOSE ARE PICTURES THAT WERE TAKEN OF A KNIFE
11 THAT I HAVE IN MY POSSESSION THAT I HAD PURCHASED FROM ROSS
12 CUTLERY IN LOS ANGELES.
13 Q. AT THE TIME THAT YOU PURCHASED THAT KNIFE, SIR,
14 DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE PERSONS THAT OWNED THE
15 STORE AND A SALESPERSON THERE?
16 A. I DID NOT PERSONALLY, NO.
17 Q. WAS IT SOMEONE WHO DID THAT AT YOUR DIRECTION?
18 A. I DISPATCHED DETECTIVES TO THAT LOCATION, YES.
19 Q. IS THAT KNIFE DEPICTED IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS,
20 THE ONE THAT YOU DIRECTED BE PURCHASED?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
22 Q. AND YOU HAD THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN.
23 IS THAT RIGHT?
24 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
25 Q. NOW, THE BLOOD SAMPLE THAT WAS REMOVED FROM
26 MR. SIMPSON, WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THAT?
27 A. I PERSONALLY HAND-CARRIED THAT TO THE
28 CRIMINALIST WHO WAS WORKING ON THE CASE, DENNIS FUNG, AND
349
1 GAVE IT TO HIM TO BE BOOKED WITH THE OTHER EVIDENCE.
2 Q. AND THE BLOOD THAT WAS EXTRACTED FROM THE
3 VICTIMS DURING THE AUTOPSY PERFORMED BY DR. GOLDEN, DID YOU
4 DO SOMETHING WITH RESPECT TO THOSE BLOOD SAMPLES?
5 A. YES, I DID.
6 I PICKED THOSE UP AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE AND
7 HAND-DELIVERED THOSE TO THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION LAB
8 AND TURNED THEM OVER TO COLIN YAMAUCHI, I BELIEVE IS THE
9 WAY IT IS PRONOUNCED, WHO IS THE ANALYST WHO IS WORKING ON
10 THE CASE.
11 Q. SIR, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM "D.R.
12 NUMBER"?
13 A. YES, I AM.
14 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT IS.
15 A. SURE.
16 THAT'S A NUMBER THAT'S ASSIGNED TO ANY CRIME
17 REPORT THAT IS GENERATED IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES AND
18 GIVES US A QUICK REFERENCE THAT ALWAYS IDENTIFIES THAT
19 SPECIFIC REPORT THAT IS DONE BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.
20 Q. WHEN EVIDENCE IS COLLECTED AND BOOKED INTO
21 PROPERTY, IS IT ASSIGNED A NUMBER?
22 A. IT IT'S BOOKED UNDER THE D.R. NUMBER THAT IS
23 BOUGHT BY THE OFFICERS THAT MAKE THE ACTUAL REPORT.
24 Q. SO ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS COLLECTED IN
25 THIS CASE, WAS IT BOOKED UNDER THE SAME D.R. NUMBER?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS, SIR?
28 A. ACTUALLY, THERE ARE TWO NUMBERS.
350
1 I NOTICED THE MAIN NUMBER, YES.
2 I CAN TELL YOU BOTH NUMBERS.
3 Q. WHAT IS THE MAIN NUMBER?
4 A. 94-0817431 IS THE MAIN NUMBER.
5 THE CORRESPONDING NUMBER IS 94-0817432.
6 Q. WHAT IS THE 32 NUMBER FOR?
7 A. EACH NUMBER, THE ORIGINAL NUMBER -- THE 31
8 NUMBER IS THE NUMBER ASSIGNED TO NICOLE BROWN, VICTIM; THE
9 32 NUMBER IS THE NUMBER ASSIGNED TO RONALD GOLDMAN, VICTIM.
10 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE EVIDENCE COLLECTED -- FIRST
11 OF ALL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, SIR:
12 AT THE TIME YOU WERE PRESENT AT THE ORIGINAL
13 CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY, DID YOU OBSERVE EVIDENCE
14 BEING COLLECTED AND GATHERED AT THAT LOCATION?
15 A. YES; THAT'S CORRECT.
16 Q. WHEN THAT EVIDENCE WAS RECOVERED, WAS IT BOOKED
17 UNDER A D.R. NUMBER?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHICH ONE?
20 A. IT SHOULD BE BOOKED UNDER THE MASTER, 31, WHICH
21 IS NICOLE BROWN'S D.R. NUMBER OR CRIME REPORT NUMBER.
22 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS RECOVERED
23 FROM MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE, WHAT WAS THAT EVIDENCE BOOKED
24 UNDER? WHAT D.R. NUMBER?
25 A. IT SHOULD BE BOOKED UNDER THE SAME MASTER D.R.
26 WE ONLY USE ONE MASTER FOR EACH OCCURRENCE,
27 WHETHER THERE ARE FIVE OR SIX LOCATIONS OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
28 Q. SO THE 31 NUMBER AGAIN?
351
1 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
2 Q. WHEN YOU TURNED OVER THE BLOOD SAMPLE TAKEN
3 FROM THE SUSPECT, MR. SIMPSON, AS WELL AS THE BLOOD
4 EXTRACTED FROM THE VICTIMS, DID YOU DO SO -- DID YOU THEN
5 PACKAGE IT UNDER THE SAME D.R. NUMBER?
6 A. THE PACKAGING WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY THE
7 CRIMINALIST OR THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ANALYZING THE EVIDENCE.
8 Q. AND THEN WOULD IT BE STANDARD OPERATING
9 PROCEDURE TO PUT THE D.R. NUMBER ON THAT PACKAGE?
10 A. YES.
11 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE BLOOD TAKEN FROM THE
12 VICTIMS BY DR. GOLDEN DURING THE AUTOPSY, WOULD THAT ALSO
13 HAVE THE SAME D.R. NUMBER ON IT?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. DID THE BLOOD SAMPLE TAKEN FROM THE SUSPECT
16 THAT YOU DELIVERED TO DENNIS FUNG, DID IT BEAR THE D.R.
17 NUMBER FOR THIS CASE?
18 WAS THAT DONE?
19 A. I WOULD HAVE TO MAKE AN ASSUMPTION, YES,
20 BECAUSE I DELIVERED IT DIRECTLY TO THE CRIMINALIST AT THE
21 CRIME SCENE BOOKING THE OTHER EVIDENCE AND TOLD HIM THAT
22 THIS WAS PART OF THE EVIDENCE THAT WENT.
23 SO I WOULD HAVE TO SAY, "YES."
24 Q. SO IT WAS HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO PACKAGE IT AND
25 AFFIX THE D.R. NUMBER TO IT?
26 A. EXACTLY.
27 HE WAS IN CHARGE OF THE EVIDENCE.
28 Q. AND WITH RESPECT TO THE BLOOD EXTRACTED FROM
352
1 THE VICTIMS DURING AUTOPSY, DID YOU PACKAGE THAT AND TURN
2 IT OVER TO MR. YAMAUCHI?
3 A. I DIDN'T PACKAGE IT.
4 I TURNED IT OVER TO HIM WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS
5 IT WAS TO BE ANALYZED AND TURNED OVER TO MR. FUNG, WHO IS
6 THE CRIMINALIST WHO WAS DOING ALL OF THE PACKAGING AND
7 BOOKING OF THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE.
8 Q. YOU ATTENDED THE AUTOPSY.
9 IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?
10 A. YES, THE AUTOPSY ON BOTH VICTIMS.
11 Q. WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN BLOOD WAS EXTRACTED FROM
12 THEM?
13 A. YES, I WAS.
14 Q. SO DID YOU PERSONALLY OBSERVED THE BLOOD
15 EXTRACTED FROM NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON DURING THE AUTOPSY?
16 A. YES, I DID.
17 Q. THAT BLOOD WAS THEN HANDED TO YOU?
18 A. NO.
19 THE BLOOD WAS TAKEN BY THE DOCTOR, DR. GOLDEN,
20 AND THE DOCTOR MAINTAINS CONTROL OF THAT BLOOD AND IT GOES
21 TO THE LABORATORY OR TO THEIR EVIDENCE SECTION.
22 I PERSONALLY PICKED UP THE BLOOD FROM THEIR
23 EVIDENCE SECTION.
24 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE THE MANNER IN WHICH DR. GOLDEN
25 PACKAGED IT BEFORE SENDING IT TO THE LAB?
26 A. YES, I DID.
27 Q. AND WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE THAT IT WAS THE
28 SAME PACKAGE THAT YOU PICKED UP FROM THE LAB?
353
1 A. YES.
2 Q. WHEN DR. GOLDEN TOOK IT TO THE LAB INITIALLY,
3 DID YOU FOLLOW HIM TO THE LAB OR DID YOU GO TO THE LAB
4 LATER?
5 A. NO, I WENT TO THE LAB LATER.
6 I DIDN'T FOLLOW THE DOCTOR TO THE LAB.
7 Q. DID YOU ALSO OBSERVE THE REMOVAL OF THE BLOOD
8 FROM MR. RONALD GOLDMAN?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. THAT WAS DONE BY DR. GOLDEN AS WELL AS THE
11 AUTOPSY.
12 IS THAT CORRECT?
13 A. YES; THAT'S CORRECT.
14 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE THE MANNER IN WHICH HE PACKAGED
15 THAT BLOOD AS WELL?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. WAS THAT BLOOD ALSO TAKEN BY HIM TO THE LAB?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. DID YOU THEN RESPOND TO THE LAB AND RETRIEVE
20 THAT SAME ITEM OF BLOOD PACKAGED IN THE MANNER YOU SAW
21 DR. GOLDEN PACKAGE IT DURING THE AUTOPSY?
22 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
23 Q. THEN YOU TURNED BOTH OF THOSE ITEMS OVER TO
24 MR. YAMAUCHI?
25 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
26 Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE MANNER IN WHICH THOSE
27 ITEMS WERE PACKAGED, SIR.
28 A. CERTAINLY.
354
1 IT WAS A SMALL GLASS VIAL WITH A PURPLE TOP AND
2 IT HAD A CORONER'S EVIDENCE TAG ON IT IN WHICH WAS AFFIXED
3 THE CORONER'S CASE NUMBER FOR EACH VICTIM.
4 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
5 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
6 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
7 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
8 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
9
10 (SHORT PAUSE.)
11
12 Q. BY MS. CLARK: SIR, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU
13 MADE CONTACT WITH A PERSON THAT IDENTIFIED HERSELF AS
14 ARNELL.
15 IS THAT CORRECT?
16 A. YES.
17 Q. ARNELL SIMPSON?
18 A. YES.
19 Q. YOU SAY SHE ALLOWED YOU INTO THE HOUSE?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. WAS THAT BY HER OWN CONSENT, WAS THAT
22 VOLUNTARY?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. YOU INDICATED AT ONE POINT DURING YOUR
25 TESTIMONY, SIR, THAT YOU LOOKED AROUND THE GROUNDS FOR
26 OTHER VICTIMS.
27 A. ABSOLUTELY, YES.
28 Q. WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER YOU SPOKE TO ARNELL
355
1 SIMPSON?
2 A. WELL, THAT WAS DURING THE PROCESS OF THE WHOLE
3 TIME.
4 WE HADN'T EVEN SEEN THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE
5 AT THAT POINT, SO WE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER SOMEONE HAD BEEN
6 MURDERED THERE BECAUSE OF THE BLOOD WE SAW OR WHAT HAVE
7 YOU.
8 SO WE WERE TRYING TO ENSURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS
9 OKAY AT THAT LOCATION.
10 Q. SO DID THAT -- I'M NOT CLEAR ON THE TIMING OF
11 THIS.
12 DID YOU LOOK AROUND THE GROUNDS BEFORE YOU
13 TALKED TO HER AND AFTER YOU TALKED TO HER?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. OKAY.
16 DID SHE EVER OBJECT TO YOUR PRESENCE OR YOUR
17 SEARCHING AROUND THE GROUNDS?
18 A. NEVER.
19 Q. SHE WAS PRESENT WHEN YOU DID SO?
20 A. YES.
21 Q. SHE INVITED YOU INTO THE HOUSE?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT
24 MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE?
25 A. I WOULD SAY SHORTLY AFTER 5:00 O'CLOCK.
26 I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT TIME, BUT SHORTLY AFTER
27 5 IN THE MORNING.
28 Q. AT WHAT POINT, IF YOU RECALL, DID YOU SEE THE
356
1 GLOVE?
2 A. WITHIN A VERY SHORT TIME OF GOING OVER THE WALL
3 TO GAIN ENTRANCE TO THE HOME.
4 Q. WAS IT BEFORE OR AFTER YOU SPOKE TO ARNELL
5 SIMPSON?
6 A. WELL, WHAT YOU ARE ASKING ME IS -- THERE WERE
7 FOUR DETECTIVES THERE.
8 A COUPLE OF US WERE ATTEMPTING TO FIND PEOPLE
9 IN THE HOME, AND TWO OF THE OTHER DETECTIVES WERE LOOKING
10 AROUND THE HOME TO ENSURE THAT THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG AND
11 THAT THERE WAS NO FORCED ENTRY ANYWHERE OR NOBODY LYING
12 DOWN IN THE DRIVEWAYS OR ANYBODY HURT OR ANYTHING.
13 AFTER SPEAKING WITH ARNELL SIMPSON, I WAS
14 DIRECTED BACK TO THIS LOCATION BY A WEST L.A. DETECTIVE WHO
15 HAD OBSERVED THIS GLOVE AT THE SIDE OF THE HOME.
16 Q. SO WHILE YOU WERE SPEAKING TO MISS SIMPSON,
17 ANOTHER DETECTIVE WAS LOOKING FOR VICTIMS?
18 A. THIS WAS ALL IN PROGRESS AT THE SAME TIME.
19 Q. THEN AFTER YOU COMPLETED YOUR DISCUSSION WITH
20 HER IS WHEN YOU WERE NOTIFIED OF THE GLOVE?
21 A. YES; EXACTLY.
22 Q. WAS IT IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT?
23 A. YES, WITHIN A MINUTE OR TWO.
24 Q. AT THAT POINT, DID YOU MAKE SOME DETERMINATION
25 ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE LOCATION OF 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE?
26 A. YES.
27 AFTER I WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT THE GLOVE AND
28 CAME BACK AROUND, I SAW SOME BLOOD IN THE DRIVEWAY. AND AT
357
1 THAT POINT IS WHEN I MADE A DETERMINATION THAT WE HAD A
2 POSSIBLE CRIME SCENE.
3 I SECURED THE RESIDENCE AND LEFT THAT LOCATION
4 TO EXECUTE A SEARCH WARRANT FOR IT.
5 Q. AND NO FURTHER SEARCH WAS CONDUCTED --
6 A. NO.
7 Q. -- UNTIL THE SEARCH WARRANT WAS SIGNED?
8 A. UNTIL IT WAS SIGNED AND RETURNED BACK TO THE
9 LOCATION.
10 Q. SO BY THE TIME YOU SAW THE BLOOD, WAS THE SKY,
11 THE STREET STARTING TO GET A LITTLE LIGHTER?
12 A. IT HAD BEGUN LIGHTENING UP.
13 IT WAS AFTER 5:00 O'CLOCK WHEN WE GOT THERE.
14 WE SPENT QUITE A BIT OF TIME BEFORE WE EVER GOT ONTO THE
15 GROUNDS ATTEMPTING TO AROUSE SOMEONE IN THE HOME BY THE
16 INTERCOM AND BY TELEPHONE.
17 SO WE WERE THERE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE WE
18 EVER MADE ENTRANCE ONTO THE GROUNDS, AND IT WAS BEGINNING
19 TO LIGHTEN UP AT THAT TIME.
20 YEAH, IT WAS LIGHT ENOUGH TO SEE, SURE.
21 Q. DID THE GLOVE THAT YOU SAW APPEAR TO BE BLOODY?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT SIZE THESE
24 GLOVES WERE?
25 A. NO; NO.
26 THEY WERE MEN'S GLOVES. THEY LOOKED LIKE
27 GLOVES THAT MAYBE WOULD FIT MY HANDS, AND I HAVE LARGE
28 HANDS.
358
1 THEY WERE MEN'S GLOVES. THAT'S ALL I CAN TELL.
2 Q. CAN YOU HOLD YOUR HAND UP, SIR.
3 A. SURE.
4 Q. CAN YOU ESTIMATE FOR US THE SPAN FROM THE TIP
5 OF YOUR SECOND FINGER TO THE EDGE OF YOUR PALM.
6 WE HAVE A RULER.
7 A. WE HAVE A RULER.
8 IT LOOKS LIKE TO THE BACK OF MY PALM IS 8
9 INCHES FROM THE TIP OF MY FINGER TO THE BACK OF MY PALM.
10 Q. THANK YOU, SIR.
11 WHEN YOU WERE AT THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH
12 BUNDY, HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO AVOID STEPPING IN THE BLOOD
13 AND MAKING FOOTPRINTS WHEN YOU WERE EXAMINING THE CRIME
14 SCENE?
15 A. I STAYED BACK FROM THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL BLOOD
16 AREA.
17 THERE WAS A WALKWAY, OR THERE WAS AN AREA WHERE
18 YOU COULD GET INTO THE FOLIAGE TO GET UP ADJACENT TO THE
19 TWO VICTIMS THAT WERE LYING IN THE WALKWAY AND OFF THE
20 WALKWAY.
21 AND I WENT UP IN THE FOLIAGE AREA AND HAD A
22 VERY GOOD FLASHLIGHT AND WAS LOOKING AT EVERYTHING AT THE
23 SCENE.
24 I NEVER PHYSICALLY WALKED INTO THE SCENE UNTIL
25 AFTER THE BODIES WERE REMOVED. BUT I WAS VERY, VERY CLOSE
26 ADJACENT TO THE SCENE.
27 Q. IN AN EFFORT TO AVOID THE CONTAMINATION OF THE
28 CRIME SCENE, ARE THE NUMBER OF PERSONS PERMITTED INSIDE THE
359
1 TAPE OR CLOSE TO THE BODIES OR THE EVIDENCE VERY LIMITED?
2 A. EXTREMELY LIMITED, YES.
3 Q. AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, PRIOR OR BEFORE
4 THE CRIMINALIST ARRIVED TO COLLECT THE EVIDENCE, CAN YOU
5 TELL ME WHO, IF ANYONE, WAS PERMITTED NEAR THE BODIES OR
6 THE EVIDENCE OR THE BLOOD OR THE FOOTPRINTS AT THE CRIME
7 SCENE?
8 A. AT THE TIME I WAS THERE, THERE WAS ONLY THREE
9 PEOPLE THAT EVEN APPROACHED CLOSE.
10 THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MYSELF, MY PARTNER,
11 DETECTIVE LANGE, AND THE SUPERVISING DETECTIVE FROM WEST
12 L.A. DETECTIVES, WHO WAS RON PHILLIPS.
13 NO ONE ELSE THAT I SAW WAS IN THAT CRIME SCENE.
14 Q. NOW, THE OTHER TWO PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE
15 REFERRING TO, THE OTHER TWO DETECTIVES, YOUR PARTNER AND
16 DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS, DID THEY WALK AROUND -- DID THEY
17 WALK INTO THE BLOODY AREA AND NEAR WHERE THE FOOTPRINTS AND
18 BLOOD DROPS WERE?
19 A. NO.
20 Q. DID THEY STAY BACK THE WAY YOU DID?
21 A. ABSOLUTELY.
22 Q. AT WHAT TIME ON JUNE 13 DID MR. SIMPSON ARRIVE
23 HOME?
24 A. IT WAS APPROXIMATELY NOON, OR JUST VERY, VERY
25 SHORTLY THEREAFTER.
26 Q. NOW, THE CUT ON MR. SIMPSON'S FINGER, IT WAS ON
27 THE LEFT FINGER.
28 IS THAT CORRECT?
360
1 A. THAT'S CORRECT; YES.
2 Q. AND THE GLOVE FOUND AT THE CRIME SCENE,
3 875 SOUTH BUNDY, WAS WHAT HAND?
4 A. THE LEFT HAND.
5 Q. DID YOU EXAMINE THAT LEFT GLOVE TO DETERMINE
6 WHETHER IT WAS CUT ON THE FINGER AS WELL?
7 A. NO.
8 I WOULDN'T DO ANY EXAMINATION OF IT. THAT
9 WOULD BE DONE BY THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION PEOPLE.
10 Q. DID YOU SEARCH FOR BLOOD DROPS ALONG THE SOUTH
11 SIDE OF THE GARAGE, THE AREA WHERE THE BLOOD WAS FOUND?
12 A. YES.
13 Q. AND DID YOU FIND ANY?
14 A. NO.
15 Q. WAS A TRAIL -- WAS THE TRAIL OF BLOOD DROPS
16 THAT YOU FOUND AT THE ROCKINGHAM AVENUE RESIDENCE
17 CONTINUOUS FROM THE BRONCO TO THE FRONT DOOR?
18 A. YEAH.
19 THERE WERE SEVERAL BLOOD DROPS THAT STARTED
20 AROUND THE SIDEWALK AREA AT THE BACK END OF THE VEHICLE
21 AND -- I CAN'T TELL YOU EXACTLY HOW MANY.
22 THERE WAS A NUMBER GOING UP THE DRIVEWAY AND
23 THEN, AS I RECALL, THERE WERE THREE INSIDE THE FRONT DOOR.
24 Q. WERE THEY WIDELY SPACED OR DO YOU RECALL?
25 A. THEY WERE NOT CLOSE TOGETHER. THEY WERE PRETTY
26 WIDELY SPACED.
27 Q. DID YOU SEARCH THE LUGGAGE MR. SIMPSON BROUGHT
28 BACK WITH HIM FROM CHICAGO?
361
1 A. YES.
2 Q. DID YOU SEE ALL OF IT, EVERYTHING THAT HE
3 BROUGHT BACK?
4 A. EVERYTHING THAT HE HAD IN HIS POSSESSION WHEN I
5 FIRST SAW HIM, YES.
6 Q. HOW MANY BAGS DID HE HAVE IN HIS POSSESSION
7 WHEN YOU SAW HIM WHEN HE RETURNED FROM CHICAGO?
8 A. ONE TRAVEL BAG.
9 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "TRAVEL BAG," IS THAT A GARMENT
10 BAG OR DUFFEL BAG?
11 A. LIKE A GUCCI DUFFEL BAG, LEATHER DUFFEL BAG
12 TYPE THING.
13 Q. WHEN YOU SEARCHED IT, DID YOU DO SO WITH HIS
14 PERMISSION?
15 A. YES.
16 Q. YOU ASKED HIS PERMISSION TO SEARCH IT?
17 A. YES.
18 Q. DO YOU HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE, SIR, OF HOW
19 MANY PIECES OF LUGGAGE MR. SIMPSON LEFT CHICAGO WITH?
20 A. PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE?
21 Q. RIGHT.
22 A. NO.
23 Q. AFTER YOU MADE CONTACT WITH MISS ARNELL SIMPSON
24 AND SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON ON THE PHONE, WHAT DID SHE DO,
25 MISS ARNELL SIMPSON?
26 A. SHE IMMEDIATELY CALLED ALAN COWLINGS TO RESPOND
27 TO THE LOCATION.
28 Q. DID SHE STAY IN THE GUEST HOUSE?
362
1 A. NO. SHE STAYED IN THE MAIN HOUSE.
2 Q. SHE STAYED IN THE LOWER PORTION?
3 A. YEAH, IN THE MAIN HOME THERE.
4 Q. WAS HER HOUSE SEARCHED, HER GUEST HOUSE
5 SEARCHED?
6 A. THE ENTIRE AREA WAS SEARCHED AFTER THE SEARCH
7 WARRANT WAS BROUGHT TO THE LOCATION.
8 Q. SO, YES, IT WAS?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. COULD YOU DESCRIBE THE CUTS ON MR. SIMPSON'S
11 FINGER.
12 A. YES.
13 AS I RECALL, THERE WAS ONE CUT THAT RAN
14 HORIZONTAL ON THE LARGER KNUCKLE OF THE FINGER. THE ACTUAL
15 KNUCKLE ITSELF APPEARED TO BE SWOLLEN FROM THE INJURY.
16 AND THEN BELOW THAT, THERE WAS A SMALLER CUT,
17 WHAT APPEARED TO BE A SMALLER INCISION-TYPE CUT, THAT RAN
18 ACROSS THE FINGER AND DOWN A LITTLE BIT.
19 IT WASN'T AS LARGE AS THE ONE UP ON THE
20 KNUCKLE.
21 Q. THE ONE ON THE KNUCKLE, THEN, WAS THE LARGER
22 ONE?
23 A. YES.
24 IT WAS DEEP ENOUGH THAT THE KNUCKLE WAS
25 SWOLLEN, APPEARED TO BE SWOLLEN FROM THE INJURY.
26 Q. DID YOU OBSERVE ANY NICKS TO THE GLOVES, ANY
27 NICKS OR TEARS TO THE GLOVES AT ALL?
28 A. NO. I NEVER REALLY GOT CLOSE ENOUGH TO THEM.
363
1 I SAW THE ONE AT THE SCENE AND SAW THE ONE AT
2 THE HOUSE. I MADE SURE THEY WERE SECURED. THEY APPEARED
3 TO BE THE SAME GLOVE, OPPOSITE HAND, TO ME.
4 AND I LEFT THEM AS THEY LAY FOR THE CRIMINALIST
5 TO PICK UP AND ANALYZATION TO BE DONE BY THE SCIENTIFIC
6 INVESTIGATION DIVISION.
7 Q. SO THAT WAS REALLY NOT YOUR --
8 A. THAT'S NOT PART OF MY FUNCTION TO ACTUALLY
9 ANALYZE THE EVIDENCE.
10 Q. WHEN YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON, DID HE MENTION
11 CALLING MR. KAELIN TO TURN ON THE BURGLAR ALARM AT THE
12 HOUSE?
13 A. I DON'T RECALL.
14 Q. YOU DON'T RECALL IF HE TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT?
15 A. NO, I DON'T RECALL IF HE TOLD ME THAT OR NOT.
16 Q. DO YOU RECALL IF HE TOLD YOU HOW KAELIN WAS
17 ABLE TO ENTER THE HOUSE TO TURN ON THE BURGLAR ALARM?
18 A. I DON'T THINK I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH HIM ABOUT
19 THAT.
20 I DON'T RECALL THAT AT ALL.
21 THE FOREPERSON: ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS
22 TO BE SUBMITTED FROM THE GRAND JURORS?
23 IF THEY WOULD SUBMIT THEM AT THIS TIME, PLEASE.
24
25 (SHORT PAUSE.)
26
27 Q. BY MS. CLARK: WERE THERE ANY OTHER BLOOD
28 DROPS IN THE HOUSE BESIDES THE ONE, TWO OR THREE THAT YOU
364
1 SAW IN THE DOORWAY, IF YOU KNOW?
2 A. I DON'T KNOW THAT.
3 Q. WHEN YOU ENCOUNTERED MR. SIMPSON UPON HIS
4 RETURN FROM CHICAGO, DID YOU SEE HIM IN POSSESSION OF ANY
5 GOLF CLUBS?
6 A. NO.
7 Q. DID YOU EVER SEE ANY GOLF CLUBS -- STRIKE
8 THAT.
9 DID YOU OBSERVE ANY BLOOD ON THE STEERING WHEEL
10 OF THE BRONCO WHEN YOU SAW THE BLOOD ON THE DOOR HANDLE?
11 A. I DON'T RECALL SEEING IT ON THE STEERING WHEEL,
12 BUT THERE WAS OTHER BLOOD INSIDE THE VEHICLE THAT I SAW,
13 YES.
14 Q. DO YOU RECALL SEEING SOME BLOOD ON THE CONSOLE
15 OF THE VEHICLE?
16 A. YES.
17 THERE WAS BLOOD ON THE CONSOLE AND BLOOD ON THE
18 INSIDE OF THE DRIVER'S DOOR OF THE VEHICLE THAT YOU COULD
19 SEE FROM THE OUTSIDE.
20 Q. WHAT ABOUT THE FLOOR OF THE VEHICLE WHERE THE
21 DRIVER WOULD SIT, PLACE HIS FEET?
22 WAS THERE ANY BLOOD THERE?
23 A. I COULD NOT SEE THAT.
24 THERE WAS A HAT LYING ON THE FLOORBOARD WHERE
25 THE DRIVER WOULD HAVE HIS FEET. I COULDN'T ACTUALLY SEE
26 THE FLOORBOARD.
27 AND I HAD THE VEHICLE IMPOUNDED FOR
28 SAFEKEEPING, AND THAT WAS DONE BY THE CRIMINALIST AGAIN.
365
1 Q. DID YOU SEE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS LEADING AWAY FROM
2 THE CRIME SCENE, 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
3 A. YES, I DID.
4 Q. IF YOU WERE ABLE TO LOCATE SHOES THAT MATCHED
5 THAT PATTERN, WOULD THAT BE OF ASSISTANCE TO YOU IN THE
6 INVESTIGATION?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. IS THERE ANY OTHER INFORMATION THAT YOU CAN
9 GAIN FROM EXAMINATION OF THOSE FOOTPRINTS, IF YOU KNOW?
10 A. YES, THERE IS OTHER INFORMATION THAT CAN BE
11 GAINED FROM IT.
12 Q. FOR EXAMPLE?
13 A. WELL, YOU CAN IDENTIFY THE TYPE OF SHOE IF THE
14 PATTERN IS GOOD ENOUGH, THE MAKE AND TYPE OF THE SHOE.
15 YOU CAN ALSO DO A STRIDE ANALYSIS OF THE SHOE
16 OR PATTERN TO GIVE YOU A PROPOSED FEELING WHETHER A PERSON
17 IS WALKING OR RUNNING OR WHATEVER, WHAT HAVE YOU.
18 BUT THAT'S OUT OF MY EXPERTISE AREA.
19 Q. THAT WOULD BE FOR A CRIMINALIST.
20 IS THAT RIGHT?
21 A. THAT'S CORRECT.
22 Q. HAVE YOU DETERMINED IN THE COURSE OF YOUR
23 INVESTIGATION AT THIS TIME WHETHER AT THE CRIME SCENE THE
24 GATES THAT WERE NEAR TO THE BODIES, WERE THEY SECURITY
25 GATES OPERABLE ONLY FROM THE INSIDE OR WHETHER THERE WAS A
26 KEY THAT WAS NEEDED TO OPERATE THEM FROM THE OUTSIDE?
27 A. I PERSONALLY HAVE NOT DETERMINED THAT.
28 Q. IS THIS INVESTIGATION CURRENTLY ONGOING, SIR?
366
1 A. YES, IT CERTAINLY IS.
2 Q. VERY ACTIVELY?
3 A. VERY ACTIVELY.
4 Q. CAN YOU RECALL WHAT WAS IMMEDIATELY TO THE
5 SOUTH OF THE CRIME SCENE AREA?
6 A. YES.
7 THE CRIME SCENE AREA IS A DUPLEX.
8 IMMEDIATELY SOUTH OF THE CRIME SCENE AREA, I
9 BELIEVE, IS 873 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE, WHICH SHARES A COMMON
10 WALL WITH 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
11 Q. AND DO YOU RECALL WHAT WAS IMMEDIATELY TO THE
12 SOUTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS?
13 A. THERE IS ANOTHER RESIDENCE, BUT I BELIEVE --
14 AND RIGHT NOW I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT THAT WOULD CONSIST OF.
15 MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
16 THE FOREPERSON: THERE BEING NO FURTHER QUESTIONS,
17 DETECTIVE VANNATTER, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, PLEASE LISTEN VERY
18 CAREFULLY TO WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU NOW:
19 YOU ARE ADMONISHED NOT TO REVEAL TO ANY OTHER
20 PERSON, EXCEPT AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, WHAT QUESTIONS WERE
21 ASKED OF YOU AND WHAT RESPONSES WERE GIVEN.
22 IN ADDITION, YOU ARE NOT TO REVEAL ANY OTHER
23 MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATURE OR SUBJECT OF THE
24 INVESTIGATION WHICH YOU LEARNED DURING YOUR APPEARANCE
25 HERE, UNLESS AND UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A TRANSCRIPT OF THESE
26 PROCEEDINGS IS MADE PUBLIC.
27 I WISH TO ADVISE YOU ALSO THAT A VIOLATION OF
28 THIS ORDER CAN BE THE BASIS OF A CONTEMPT CHARGE AGAINST
367
1 YOU.
2 DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
3 THE WITNESS: YES, I UNDERSTAND.
4 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
5 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
6 THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
7
8 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
9 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
10
11 THE FOREPERSON: THE GRAND JURY IS IN RECESS FOR ITS
12 LUNCH BREAK AT THIS TIME.
13 WE WILL RECONVENE IN THIS CASE AT 2:00 O'CLOCK.
14
15 (NOON RECESS TAKEN.)
16 -O0O-
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
368
1 LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; WEDNESDAY, JUNE 22, 1994
2 2:00 P.M.
3 -O0O-
4
5 (AT THE BEGINNING OF THESE PROCEEDINGS,
6 20 GRAND JURORS WERE PRESENT.)
7
8 THE FOREPERSON: THIS HEARING IS NOW IN SESSION.
9 MADAME SECRETARY?
10 THE SECRETARY: LET THE RECORD REFLECT THE SAME
11 TWENTY GRAND JURORS PRESENT AT THIS MORNING'S ROLL CALL ARE
12 NOW PRESENT.
13 THE FOREPERSON: WE ARE CONTINUING WITH THE MATTER
14 BEFORE US:
15 "NAME OF POSSIBLE DEFENDANT:
16 "ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON.
17 THE DEPUTIES DISTRICT ATTORNEY ARE MARSHA
18 CLARK AND DAVID CONN.
19 MS. CLARK: PEOPLE CALL THANO PERATIS.
20 WE HAVE TO ADD HIM TO THE LIST.
21 T-H-A-N-O P-E-R-A-T-I-S.
22 THE FOREPERSON: THANO PERATIS, PLEASE RAISE YOUR
23 RIGHT HAND.
24 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
25 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
26 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
27 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
28 THE WITNESS: I DO.
369
1 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
2 MR. PERATIS, PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR FULL
3 NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE.
4 THE WITNESS: THANO M. PERATIS.
5 T-H-A-N-O M. P-E-R-A-T-I-S.
6 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
7 YOU MAY PROCEED.
8 MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
9
10 THANO M. PERATIS,
11 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
12 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
13
14 E X A M I N A T I O N
15 BY MS. CLARK:
16 Q. TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING, MR. PERATIS.
17 A. I'M A REGISTERED NURSE.
18 Q. WHERE DO YOU WORK?
19 A. PARKER CENTER JAIL.
20 Q. AS A REGISTERED NURSE, DO YOU HAVE SOME
21 TRAINING?
22 A. SORRY?
23 Q. DO YOU HAVE A HARD TIME HEARING ME, SIR?
24 CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?
25 A. YEAH, THAT'S BETTER.
26 Q. WHAT IS YOUR TRAINING TO BECOME A NURSE?
27 A. I WENT TO NURSING SCHOOL.
28 Q. DID YOU RECEIVE A DEGREE AS A REGISTERED NURSE?
370
1 A. YES, MA'AM.
2 Q. AS SUCH, ARE YOU QUALIFIED TO REMOVE BLOOD FROM
3 PEOPLE IN A MEDICALLY APPROVED MANNER?
4 A. YES.
5 Q. IS THAT PART OF THE DUTIES YOU PERFORM AS THE
6 NURSE AT THE JAIL DISPENSERY AT PARKER CENTER HERE IN
7 LOS ANGELES COUNTY?
8 A. YES, IT IS.
9 Q. AND ON JUNE 13, 1994, WERE YOU WORKING THAT
10 DAY, SIR --
11 A. YES, MA'AM.
12 Q. -- AT PARKER CENTER IN YOUR USUAL CAPACITY AS A
13 REGISTERED NURSE?
14 A. YES.
15 Q. WERE YOU REQUESTED TO REMOVE BLOOD FROM THE ARM
16 OF A PERSON BY THE NAME OF MR. ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON?
17 A. NOT QUITE WITH THAT.
18 THE INITIALS WERE O.J. SIMPSON, YES.
19 Q. DID YOU REMOVE A BLOOD SAMPLE FROM THAT PERSON?
20 A. YES, I DID.
21 Q. ON JUNE 13?
22 A. YES.
23 Q. I WILL SHOW YOU PEOPLE'S 23 AND YOU TELL ME IF
24 THAT'S THE PERSON YOU REMOVED BLOOD FROM.
25 A. YES, IT IS.
26 Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US WHAT IS THE METHOD BY
27 WHICH YOU REMOVED BLOOD FROM MR. SIMPSON.
28 A. I PUT A TOURNIQUET ON HIS ARM, CLEANED THE SITE
371
1 WITH AQUEOUS ZEPHRIN AND PUT A 10 C.C. SYRINGE WITH ABOUT
2 A NO. 20 NEEDLE IN THE VEIN, IN HIS ARM AND I WITHDREW
3 ABOUT 8 C.C.'S OF BLOOD.
4 AND I THEN PUT THE BLOOD INTO A TEST TUBE THAT
5 HAD A PRESERVATIVE CALLED E.D.T.A. AND THEN HANDED IT TO
6 THE OFFICER, TO THE DETECTIVE, AND THEN PUT A DRESSING ON
7 HIM.
8 Q. ON THE ARM?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. APPROXIMATELY HOW MUCH BLOOD DID YOU REMOVE?
11 A. APPROXIMATELY 8 CC'S.
12 Q. AND THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU REMOVED THAT BLOOD,
13 DID IT AVOID ANY CONTAMINATION OF THE BLOOD?
14 A. OH, DEFINITELY.
15 Q. AND THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU PACKAGED IT, WAS IT
16 ALSO SEALED TO PREVENT ANY CONTAMINATION?
17 A. YES, MA'AM.
18 Q. DID YOU THEN PUT IT IN SOME KIND OF A PACKAGE?
19 A. I HANDED IT TO ONE OF THE DETECTIVES, WHO PUT
20 IT INTO A LARGE GRAY ENVELOPE.
21 Q. DID YOU HAND IT TO DETECTIVE PHILLIP VANNATTER?
22 A. VANNATTER, YES.
23 MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
24 THE FOREPERSON: IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE GRAND JURY
25 HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE WRITE THEM ON A PIECE OF PAPER.
26 THEY WILL BE PICKED UP BY THE
27 SERGEANT-AT-ARMS.
28
372
1 (SHORT PAUSE.)
2
3 THE FOREPERSON: THERE BEING NO FURTHER QUESTIONS,
4 MR. PERATIS, BEFORE YOU LEAVE, PLEASE LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY
5 TO WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY TO YOU NOW:
6 YOU ARE ADMONISHED NOT TO REVEAL TO ANY OTHER
7 PERSON, EXCEPT AS ORDERED BY THE COURT, WHAT QUESTIONS WERE
8 ASKED OF YOU AND WHAT RESPONSES WERE GIVEN.
9 IN ADDITION, YOU ARE NOT TO REVEAL ANY OTHER
10 MATTERS CONCERNING THE NATURE OR SUBJECT OF THE
11 INVESTIGATION WHICH YOU LEARNED DURING YOUR APPEARANCE
12 HERE, UNLESS AND UNTIL SUCH TIME AS A TRANSCRIPT OF THESE
13 PROCEEDINGS IS MADE PUBLIC.
14 I WISH TO ADVISE YOU ALSO THAT A VIOLATION OF
15 THIS ORDER CAN BE THE BASIS OF A CONTEMPT CHARGE AGAINST
16 YOU.
17 DO YOU UNDERSTAND?
18 THE WITNESS: YES.
19 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
20 YOU ARE EXCUSED.
21
22 (THE WITNESS EXITS THE GRAND
23 JURY HEARING ROOM.)
24
25 MS. CLARK: PEOPLE CALL MR. DENNIS FUNG.
26 THE FOREPERSON: DENNIS FUNG, PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT
27 HAND.
28 YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THE TESTIMONY YOU ARE ABOUT
373
1 TO GIVE IN THE MATTER NOW PENDING BEFORE THE GRAND JURY OF
2 THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE
3 TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
4 THE WITNESS: I DO.
5 THE FOREPERSON: PLEASE BE SEATED.
6 MR. FUNG, PLEASE STATE AND SPELL YOUR FULL
7 NAME, SPEAKING DIRECTLY INTO THE MICROPHONE.
8 THE WITNESS: MY NAME IS DENNIS KIRK FUNG.
9 D-E-N-N-I-S K-I-R-K F-U-N-G.
10 THE FOREPERSON: THANK YOU.
11 YOU MAY PROCEED.
12
13 DENNIS KIRK FUNG,
14 CALLED AS A WITNESS BEFORE THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY GRAND JURY,
15 WAS DULY SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
16
17 E X A M I N A T I O N
18 BY MS. CLARK:
19 Q. MR. FUNG, CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU DO.
20 A. I AM A CRIMINALIST EMPLOYED BY THE LOS ANGELES
21 POLICE DEPARTMENT.
22 I WORK IN THE SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION DIVISION
23 AND I'M ASSIGNED TO THE FIREARMS ANALYSIS UNIT.
24 PART OF MY DUTIES INCLUDE PROCESSING CRIME
25 SCENES; THAT IS, COLLECTING EVIDENCE AND DOCUMENTING
26 PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AT A CRIME SCENE.
27 Q. AND DID YOU RECEIVE SOME TRAINING IN ORDER TO
28 PERFORM THOSE DUTIES?
374
1 A. YES, I HAVE.
2 I HAVE A BACHELOR OF SCIENCE DEGREE IN
3 CRIMINALISTICS FROM THE CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY AT LONG
4 BEACH.
5 I ALSO HAVE A BACHELOR OF ARTS IN CHEMISTRY
6 FROM LONG BEACH STATE.
7 I HAVE CONDUCTED OVER 500 CRIME SCENE
8 SEARCHES.
9 I HAVE ATTENDED SEMINARS GIVEN BY THE
10 CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF CRIMINALISTS AND THE AMERICAN
11 ACADEMY OF FORENSIC SCIENCES REGARDING CRIME SCENE SEARCHES
12 AND RECONSTRUCTIONS.
13 Q. WERE YOU ALSO THE CRIMINALIST, THEN, ASSIGNED
14 TO COLLECT AND RETRIEVE THE EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE, SIR?
15 A. YES, I WAS.
16 Q. NOW, DOES EVERY CASE HAVE A D.R. NUMBER?
17 A. YES, IT DOES.
18 Q. THIS ONE ALSO DOES?
19 A. YES, IT DOES.
20 Q. WHEN YOU COLLECT EVIDENCE AT ANY CRIME SCENE,
21 AND THIS ONE INCLUDED, DO YOU PACKAGE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE
22 IN A PARTICULAR MANNER?
23 A. YES, I DO.
24 Q. WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU
25 PACKAGE THE EVIDENCE?
26 A. I WILL WRITE THE D.R. NUMBER AND ITEM NUMBER ON
27 EACH PACKAGE OR ITEM OF EVIDENCE AND I WILL THEN STORE THEM
28 IN A MANNER APPROPRIATE FOR THE PRESERVATION OF THAT
375
1 EVIDENCE.
2 Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT, SIR?
3 A. ITEMS SUCH AS BLOOD STAINS THAT NEED TO BE IN A
4 COLD LOCATION WILL BE STORED IN THE FROZEN SECTION OF THE
5 PROPERTY DIVISION, AND SHELF STORAGE ITEMS WILL BE SO
6 LABELED ALSO.
7 Q. SO THE GOAL, THEN, IS TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF
8 THE EVIDENCE YOU COLLECT IS PRESERVED AND NOT CONTAMINATED
9 IN ANY WAY?
10 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
11 Q. EVERY PACKAGE YOU PLACE ITEMS INTO, DOES THAT
12 BEAR A D.R. NUMBER?
13 A. YES.
14 Q. THAT IS SO EVERYONE KEEPS THE EVIDENCE THAT
15 GOES TO EACH CASE SEPARATE.
16 IS THAT RIGHT?
17 A. YES.
18 Q. DID YOU ALSO CAUSE THE EVIDENCE COLLECTED IN
19 THIS CASE TO BE PLACED INTO PACKAGES APPROPRIATE FOR ITS
20 PRESERVATION AND MARKED WITH A D.R. NUMBER FOR THE CASE?
21 A. YES, I DID.
22 Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS THE D.R. NUMBER FOR THIS
23 CASE?
24 A. IF I MAY REFER TO MY NOTES.
25 Q. YES.
26 DO YOU NEED YOUR NOTES TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY?
27 A. YES, I DO.
28 Q. DO YOU WRITE THE D.R. NUMBER ON ALL YOUR NOTES?
376
1 A. YES, I DO.
2 THE D.R. NUMBER FOR THIS CASE IS 94-0817431.
3 Q. THANK YOU.
4 NOW, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE DATE OF
5 JUNE 13, 1994.
6 ON THAT DATE, DID YOU RESPOND TO A LOCATION,
7 THE LOCATION AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE IN LOS ANGELES
8 COUNTY?
9 A. YES, I DID.
10 Q. DID YOU DO SO IN THE SCOPE AND COURSE OF YOUR
11 DUTIES AS A CRIMINALIST?
12 A. YES, I DID.
13 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION SIR TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS
14 THAT HAVE BEEN COLLECTIVELY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 1, 27, AND
15 26 THAT YOU NOW SEE BEFORE YOU.
16 A. YES.
17 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE CRIME SCENE AS SHOWN IN
18 THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?
19 A. YES, I DO.
20 Q. AND WHERE WAS THAT CRIME SCENE?
21 A. THAT CRIME SCENE WAS AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY.
22 Q. IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY?
23 A. YES.
24 Q. IS THAT THE CRIME SCENE YOU RESPONDED TO ON
25 JUNE 13, 1994?
26 A. YES, IT IS.
27 Q. NOW, I'M JUST GOING TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO
28 CERTAIN ITEMS OF EVIDENCE.
377
1 CAN YOU TELL US HOW MANY TOTAL ITEMS OF
2 EVIDENCE YOU RECOVERED FROM THAT CRIME SCENE.
3 A. THAT PARTICULAR CRIME LOCATION?
4 Q. YES.
5 A. I'M REFERRING TO MY NOTES NOW.
6 TWENTY-THREE ITEMS OF EVIDENCE WERE COLLECTED
7 AT THAT LOCATION.
8 Q. WAS ONE OF THOSE ITEMS A BROWN MAN'S LEATHER
9 GLOVE?
10 A. YES, IT WAS.
11 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE SET OF
12 PHOTOGRAPHS, PEOPLE'S 26.
13 CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU SEE THE GLOVE YOU HAVE
14 JUST REFERRED TO.
15 A. IF I MAY TAKE A CLOSER LOOK?
16 Q. YES.
17 A. YES. THE GLOVE I AM REFERRING TO IS SHOWN IN
18 PHOTOGRAPH -A, THE PERSON IS POINTING TO IT THERE.
19 IT IS ALSO IN PHOTOGRAPH -B, IN THE BOTTOM
20 LEFT-HAND CORNER.
21 IT IS IN PHOTOGRAPH -C, NEXT TO THE PHOTO I.D.,
22 NO. 102.
23 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPHS -A, -B AND -C, DO THEY ACTUALLY
24 DEPICT THE GLOVE IN THE LOCATION AND CONDITION YOU FOUND
25 IT?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO WITH RESPECT TO THAT GLOVE?
28 A. INITIALLY, I MEASURED TO SEE -- TO LOCATE WHERE
378
1 IT WAS FOUND, DOCUMENTED THAT LOCATION AND THEN PLACED IT
2 IN A PAPER BAG FOR LATER PROCESSING.
3 Q. AND THE BAG YOU PLACED IT IN, DID IT BEAR THE
4 D.R. NUMBER YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY GIVEN US?
5 A. I DID PUT THAT D.R. NUMBER ON THAT BAG AT A
6 LATER DATE, YES.
7 Q. DID YOU ALSO OBSERVE BLOOD DROPS LEADING AWAY
8 FROM THE BODIES TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE LOCATION OF 875
9 SOUTH BUNDY?
10 A. THERE WAS A BLOOD TRAIL. I COULDN'T DETERMINE
11 IF IT WAS COMING FROM OR TO.
12 HOWEVER, THERE WAS ONE LEADING TO THE -- OR TO
13 OR FROM THE CRIME SCENE IN THE REAR, OR NORTH OF THE
14 BUILDING.
15 Q. LEADING FROM THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION TO THE
16 BACK OF THE LOCATION?
17 A. YES.
18 Q. THE PHOTOGRAPHS HAVE BEEN MARKED AS
19 PEOPLE'S 28, -A THROUGH -G.
20 DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT LOCATION?
21 A. YES, I DO.
22 Q. WHAT DOES THAT SHOW?
23 A. THAT DEPICTS THE TRAIL OF BLOOD STAINS THAT
24 LEADS FROM THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE TO THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.
25 AND THAT'S ALSO ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE HOUSE,
26 ALSO.
27 Q. DOES THAT APPEAR TO DEPICT SOME OF THE BLOOD
28 DROPS WE ARE REFERRING TO NOW AS THE BLOOD TRAIL?
379
1 A. YES, IT DOES.
2 Q. NOW, DID YOU ALSO OBSERVE BLOODY SHOE PRINTS
3 LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODIES?
4 A. YES, I DID.
5 Q. WERE THERE BLOOD DROPS NEXT TO THOSE SHOE
6 PRINTS?
7 A. YES, THERE WERE.
8 Q. DID YOU ATTEMPT TO RETRIEVE AND PRESERVE THE
9 BLOOD FOUND IN THOSE BLOOD DROPS?
10 A. YES, I DID.
11 Q. WHAT DID YOU DO?
12 A. I TRANSFERRED THE BLOOD DROPS ONTO -- ONTO
13 CLOTH SQUARES OR CLOTH SWATCHES.
14 WHAT I DID WAS WET THE CLOTH SWATCHES WITH
15 DISTILLED WATER AND THEN APPLIED THEM TO THE STAIN, THE RED
16 STAINS WHICH ARE LATER DETERMINED TO BE BLOOD, AND THEY
17 WERE TRANSFERRED ON IN THAT METHOD.
18 Q. IS THAT AN APPROVED -- SCIENTIFICALLY APPROVED
19 METHOD FOR THE PRESERVATION AND PREVENTION OF CONTAMINATION
20 OF BLOOD STAINS AND BLOOD DRIPPINGS?
21 A. THAT'S THE WAY I HAVE BEEN TAUGHT ALL THE WAY
22 THROUGH SCHOOL, THROUGH SEMINARS AND THAT'S THE WAY WE DO
23 IT IN THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT.
24 Q. TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IS THAT A SCIENTIFICALLY
25 APPROVED MANNER?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. AND AFTER YOU COLLECTED THOSE BLOOD DROPS AND
28 YOU PRESERVED THEM, DID YOU MARK THEM WITH A D.R. NUMBER
380
1 FOR THIS CASE?
2 A. YES, I DID.
3 Q. AND WHO DID YOU SUBMIT THEM TO?
4 A. I GAVE THEM TO CRIMINALIST YAMAUCHI AT THE LAB.
5 Q. WAS THAT ON THE DATE OF JUNE 14?
6 A. YES, IT WAS.
7 Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHAT IS KNOWN AS A STRIDE
8 ANALYSIS?
9 A. YES, I AM.
10 Q. WHAT IS IT?
11 A. IF YOU HAVE SHOE PRINTS OR FOOTPRINTS ON THE
12 GROUND, YOU CAN MEASURE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE SHOE
13 PRINTS AND DETERMINE HOW FAR OR HOW LARGE -- NOT LARGE --
14 THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THEM, AND SOMETIMES YOU CAN DETERMINE
15 IF A PERSON IS WALKING OR RUNNING, DEPENDING ON DIFFERENT
16 FACTORS, SUCH AS HEIGHT AND WEIGHT.
17 Q. DID YOU ATTEMPT TO PERFORM THAT ANALYSIS IN
18 THIS CASE?
19 A. YES, I DID.
20 Q. HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT DOING THAT?
21 A. I MEASURED THE FOOTPRINTS, AND ALSO I WALKED
22 ALONG THE BLOODY SHOE PRINT PATH AND DETERMINED THAT THE
23 PERSON WHO MADE THE SHOE PRINTS WAS NOT RUNNING BUT WAS
24 WALKING.
25 Q. COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THEY WERE WALKING
26 QUICKLY OR AT A NORMAL PACE?
27 A. NOT REALLY.
28 Q. THE DISTINCTION CAN BE MADE BETWEEN RUNNING AND
381
1 WALKING?
2 A. YES.
3 Q. AND THAT'S BASED ON THE BLOOD DRIPPINGS AS WELL
4 AS THE SHOE PRINT?
5 A. IT'S BASED MOSTLY ON THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE
6 SHOE PRINTS, BETWEEN EACH SHOE PRINT.
7 Q. WHAT, IF ANY, CONCLUSION CAN WE DRAW ABOUT THE
8 HEIGHT OR SIZE OF THE PERSON WHO MADE THOSE SHOE PRINTS,
9 FROM WHAT YOU SAW?
10 A. ON A SHOE PRINT ON CONCRETE LIKE THAT, NOT VERY
11 MUCH CAN BE SAID.
12 Q. WHY IS THAT?
13 A. FOR WEIGHT DETERMINATION, SOIL IS A BETTER
14 MEDIUM, BECAUSE THEN YOU CAN SAY THAT A VERY HEAVY PERSON
15 WILL MAKE A DEEPER SHOE PRINT AND A LIGHTER PERSON WILL
16 MAKE A MORE SHALLOW SHOE PRINT.
17 AND IN THIS MEDIUM, YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THAT.
18 Q. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE AN IMPRESSION ON
19 CONCRETE --
20 A. RIGHT.
21 Q. -- BUT THE SIZE OF THE SHOE PRINT?
22 A. THE SIZE OF THE SHOE PRINT WOULD INDICATE THE
23 PERSON'S FOOT SIZE, IF HE'S WEARING THE PROPER SHOES.
24 Q. AS OPPOSED TO EITHER SHOES THAT ARE TOO BIG OR
25 TOO SMALL?
26 A. YES.
27 Q. WHAT OBSERVATION DID YOU MAKE WITH RESPECT TO
28 THE SIZE OF THESE SHOES?
382
1 A. I DIDN'T DO A SHOE SIZE DETERMINATION, BUT IT
2 APPEARED TO BE AN ADULT-SIZED SHOE PRINT.
3 Q. CAN YOU TELL WHETHER IT APPEARED TO BE THE SIZE
4 OF FOOT YOU WOULD SEE ON A MAN VERSUS A WOMAN?
5 A. NOT REALLY, NO.
6 Q. WHY NOT?
7 A. THE SHOE PRINTS OF -- THE SIZE OF SHOES WILL --
8 ARE VERY DIVERSE.
9 AND I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THE SHOE ANALYSIS ASSIST
10 UNIT FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS, SO I'M KIND OF RUSTY ON THAT ASPECT
11 OF SHOE PRINT ANALYSIS.
12 Q. SO YOU ARE DISQUALIFYING YOURSELF ON THAT ONE.
13 BASICALLY, ARE YOU TELLING US YOU ARE NOT
14 QUALIFIED TO RENDER AN OPINION AS TO THAT BECAUSE OF A LACK
15 OF EXPERIENCE AND TRAINING?
16 A. YES, AT THIS POINT.
17 MS. CLARK: I WILL ASK THE JURY TO DISREGARD ANY
18 STATEMENTS CONCERNING THE CONCLUSIONS THAT HE MAY HAVE
19 DRAWN ABOUT THE WEARER OF THE SHOE BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE
20 IMPRESSION THAT HE SAW.
21 Q. WITH RESPECT TO THE STRIDE ANALYSIS, WHAT IS
22 THE BASIS FOR THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU DRAW CONCERNING THE
23 PACE OF THE PERSON MOVING WHO DRIPPED THAT BLOOD?
24 A. AS I WALKED ALONG THE BLOODY SHOE PRINT PATH, I
25 WAS WALKING AND I WOULD EXPECT THE SHOE PRINTS -- THE
26 DISTANCE BETWEEN EACH SHOE PRINTS TO BE A MUCH GREATER
27 DISTANCE FOR SOMEBODY WHO WAS RUNNING. AND IT WAS
28 PRETTY -- THE STRIDE WAS NOT MUCH DIFFERENT FROM MY OWN
383
1 WHEN I WAS WALKING, SO THAT IS HOW I BASED MY CONCLUSION.
2 Q. YOU BASED YOUR CONCLUSION ON THE DISTANCE
3 BETWEEN THE SHOE PRINTS?
4 A. YES, BETWEEN CONSECUTIVE SHOE PRINTS.
5 Q. WAS THERE ANYTHING ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE
6 BLOOD DRIPPING THAT SUPPORTED THAT CONCLUSION AS WELL?
7 A. YES.
8 Q. WHEN I SAY THAT, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE BLOOD
9 DROPS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S -- I BELIEVE IT'S 28.
10 THAT'S RIGHT, PEOPLE'S 28.
11 A. YES.
12 ASSUMING THAT THOSE BLOOD STAINS ARE FROM --
13 WERE MADE BY THE PERSON WHO ALSO MADE THE SHOE PRINTS, I
14 WOULD EXPECT THOSE BLOOD DROPS TO HAVE LITTLE TRAILING
15 EDGES TO THEM THAT WOULD INDICATE A DIRECTION.
16 BUT THEY PRETTY MUCH DO NOT HAVE DIRECTION
17 ASSOCIATED WITH THEM.
18 Q. THEN WHAT ARE YOU TELLING US ABOUT THOSE BLOOD
19 DROPS?
20 A. THOSE BLOOD DROPS WERE MADE BY SOMEBODY GOING
21 IN A RELATIVELY SLOW -- SLOW VELOCITY, SLOW SPEED.
22 Q. ARE YOU BASING THAT ON THE APPEARANCE OF THE
23 BLOOD DROPS?
24 A. YES, I AM.
25 Q. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE APPEARANCE OF THOSE BLOOD
26 DROPS THAT CAUSES YOU TO COME TO THAT CONCLUSION?
27 A. THEY ARE ROUND BLOOD DROPS WITH NO APPARENT
28 TRAILING EDGES.
384
1 Q. THE TRAILING EDGES ARE WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT TO
2 FIND IF HE WAS MOVING OR SHE WAS MOVING MORE QUICKLY?
3 A. YES.
4 MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT?
5 THE FOREPERSON: YOU MAY DO SO.
6
7 (SHORT PAUSE.)
8
9 Q. BY MS. CLARK: BASED ON WHAT YOU SAW IN THE
10 BLOOD DROPS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 28 AND THE SHOE PRINTS THAT
11 YOU HAVE DESCRIBED THAT WERE ADJACENT TO THOSE BLOOD DROPS,
12 DID YOU -- WHERE THE BLOOD DROPS ARE, DO THE BLOOD DROPS
13 APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN DRIPPED BY THE PERSON WHO MADE THE SHOE
14 PRINTS?
15 A. IT'S CONSISTENT.
16 THERE IS NOTHING THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT THEY
17 WERE NOT.
18 Q. IF YOU COULD, SIR, STEP DOWN AND LOOK AT
19 PEOPLE'S 28.
20 CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER IN PHOTOGRAPH -C YOU
21 SEE A PARTIAL SHOE PRINT OF THE TYPE YOU WERE DISCUSSING
22 THAT YOU SAW AT THE CRIME SCENE LEADING AWAY FROM THE
23 BODIES.
24 A. THERE APPEARS THAT THIS MAY BE A SHOE PRINT OR
25 PARTIAL SHOE PRINT IN PHOTOGRAPH -C ON PEOPLE'S 28.
26 Q. WHEN YOU SAID, "THERE APPEARS," YOU POINTED TO
27 AN AREA THAT IS JUST DIAGONALLY AND TO THE LEFT AS YOU FACE
28 IT BELOW THE NO. 239.
385
1 A. YES.
2 Q. DOES IT APPEAR TO BE A HEAL AREA?
3 A. I CAN'T REALLY SAY FROM THAT PHOTOGRAPH.
4 IT MAY BE.
5 Q. SHOWING YOU THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN PEOPLE'S 26,
6 PHOTOGRAPH -B.
7 CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU SEE ANY EXAMPLES OF SHOE
8 PRINTS THAT YOU SAW LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODIES IN THESE
9 PHOTOGRAPHS.
10 A. WITHOUT HAVING THE BENEFIT OF THE ACTUAL SHOE
11 PRINTS TO COMPARE AGAINST, THESE DO -- THE HEAL PRINTS IN
12 -A, -B AND -C ARE SIMILAR TO THOSE THAT I SAW ON THE BLOODY
13 SHOE PRINTS, BUT I'M NOT 100 PERCENT CERTAIN.
14 BUT THEY DO REPRESENT THEM -- BUT THEY DO
15 REPRESENT THE TRAIL.
16 Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "THEY REPRESENT THE TRAIL" --
17 A. OR THEY REPRESENT THE SAME SHOE PRINTS AS THOSE
18 THAT WERE ALONG THE TRAIL.
19 Q. YOU MEAN THE HEAL PRINTS SHOWN IN -A, -B AND -C
20 OF THAT EXHIBIT APPEAR THE SAME AS THE PRINTS THAT YOU SAW
21 LEADING ALONG THE BLOOD TRAIL ON THE LANDING LEADING AWAY
22 FROM THE BODY?
23 A. FROM MY MEMORY, YES.
24 Q. WERE CLOSER PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN OF THE SHOE
25 PRINTS YOU SAW LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODY ALONG THE LANDING
26 THAT WENT TO THE BACK OF THE RESIDENCE?
27 A. YES, THERE WERE.
28 HOWEVER, I HAVE NOT RECEIVED THEM YET.
386
1 Q. THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PROCESSED YET, THOSE
2 PHOTOGRAPHS?
3 A. YES.
4 Q. I SEE.
5 SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AT THIS TIME, SIR, BASED
6 ON YOUR MEMORY OF THE CRIME SCENE AS YOU SAW IT ON JUNE 13,
7 THOSE APPEAR TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE SAME PATTERN THAT
8 YOU SAW LEADING AWAY FROM THE CRIME SCENE?
9 A. YES.
10 Q. BUT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN
11 FRONT OF YOU HAVE TO BE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN?
12 A. YES; THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
13 Q. AND THIS INVESTIGATION IS STILL VERY MUCH IN
14 PROGRESS.
15 IS THAT CORRECT?
16 A. YES, IT IS.
17 Q. AND NOT ALL OF THE EVIDENCE HAS BEEN COMPLETED
18 IN TERMS OF ANALYSIS, HAS IT?
19 A. THAT IS CORRECT.
20 Q. NOW, DID YOU ALSO RESPOND TO THE LOCATION OF
21 360 ROCKINGHAM AVENUE IN BRENTWOOD, LOS ANGELES COUNTY?
22 A. YES, I DID.
23 Q. DID YOU RECOVER EVIDENCE FROM THAT LOCATION AS
24 WELL?
25 A. YES, I DID.
26 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO PEOPLE'S 5.
27 CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE AUTOMOBILE
28 SHOWN IN -A, PHOTOGRAPH -A.
387
1 A. YES, I DO.
2 Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE GENTLEMAN IN PHOTOGRAPH -A
3 ALSO?
4 A. THAT APPEARS TO BE ME.
5 Q. WHAT ARE YOU POINTING TO?
6 A. I AM POINTING TO A RED STAIN THAT WAS OBSERVED
7 BY THE DRIVER DOOR EXTERIOR HANDLE.
8 Q. IS THAT A CLOSE-UP SHOWN OF THAT RED STAIN ON
9 PHOTOGRAPH -B?
10 A. YES, IT IS.
11 Q. NOW, IN PHOTOGRAPHS -D AND -E, CAN YOU TELL US
12 WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS.
13 A. THOSE ARE RED STAINS THAT WERE TESTED AND GAVE
14 A PRELIMINARY -- A PRESUMPTIVE POSITIVE FOR THE PRESENCE OF
15 BLOOD.
16 Q. AND SO -D WAS A BLOOD DRIPPING THAT WAS BEHIND
17 THE VEHICLE, AS SHOWN IN -C?
18 A. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE WHERE THAT WAS LOCATED.
19 Q. WHEN YOU SAID THAT, YOU MEANT PHOTOGRAPH -D?
20 A. YES.
21 BECAUSE THERE IS NO IDENTIFYING MARKER ON THAT
22 PHOTOGRAPH.
23 Q. HOWEVER, IN PHOTOGRAPH -C, THERE IS A MARKER
24 THAT IS ON THE STREET JUST BEHIND THE FORD BRONCO IN FRONT
25 OF THE NO. 360.
26 IS THAT RIGHT?
27 A. YES, THERE IS.
28 Q. AND WHAT IS THAT MARKER THERE FOR?
388
1 A. THAT IS THERE TO LOCATE AN ITEM OF EVIDENCE
2 WHICH HAPPENED TO BE A RED STAIN, ALSO.
3 Q. THAT YOU TESTED FOR -- THAT YOU PERFORMED A
4 PRESUMPTIVE TEST FOR BLOOD ON?
5 A. YES.
6 Q. AND ALSO TESTED POSITIVE?
7 A. YES, IT DID.
8 Q. IN PHOTOGRAPH -E?
9 A. IN PHOTOGRAPH -E IS ANOTHER RED STAIN THAT IS
10 BEING POINTED TO BY A DETECTIVE.
11 Q. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO EXHIBIT
12 PEOPLE'S 2.
13 I'M JUST GOING TO DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION IN THIS
14 EXHIBIT TO PHOTOGRAPHS -E AND -F.
15 A. YES.
16 Q. DO YOU SEE THE MARKERS HERE ALONG THE WALK WITH
17 THESE LITTLE GREEN TAGS?
18 A. YES, I DO.
19 Q. ALL THE WAY UP TO THE TAG HERE THAT SEEMS TO BE
20 MARKED WITH AN 8?
21 Q. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THOSE TAGS ARE THERE FOR.
22 A