SHARON RUFO, Case No.
Plaintiff, SC 031947;
-against- C/W Case No.
ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, et al., SC 036340
Defendants. C/W Case No.
FREDRIC GOLDMAN, an individual, and as
personal representative of the Estate
of Ronald Lyle Goldman, Deceased, et al.,
Plaintiffs,
-against-
ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, et al.,
Defendants.
LOUIS H. BROWN, as Executor and
personal representative of the
Estate of NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON,
Plaintiff,
-against-
ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON
Defendant.
Continued videotaped deposition of FAYE RESNICK, taken by Plaintiff, pursuant to adjournment, at the offices of John Quinlan Kelly, Esq., 330 Madison Avenue, New York, New York, on February 11, 1996 at 10:33 a.m., before Cary N. Bigelow, a Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State of New York.
APPEARANCES:
MITCHELL, SILBERBERG & KNUPP
Attorneys for Plaintiffs Fredric Goldman, et al.
11377 West Olympic Boulevard, Sixth Floor
Los Angeles, California 90064-1683
BY: DANIEL M. PETROCELLI, ESQ., of Counsel
JOHN QUINLAN KELLY, ESQ.
Attorney for Plaintiff Estate of Brown
330 Madison Avenue
New York, New York 10017-5090
-and-
MARK KRONE, ESQ., of Counsel
HORNBERGER & CRISWELL
Attorneys for Plaintiff Sharon Rufo
444 South Flower Street, 31st Floor
Los Angeles, California 90071
BY: MICHAEL A. BREWER, ESQ., of Counsel
BAILEY, FISHMAN & LEONARD
Attorneys for Defendant Orenthal James Simpson
66 Long Wharf
Boston, Massachusetts 02110
BY: DANIEL LEONARD, ESQ.
GOLD, FARRELL & MARKS
Attorneys for the Witness Faye Resnick
41 Madison Avenue
New York, New York 10010
BY: LEONARD M. MARKS, ESQ.
-and-
MARK S. LAFAYETTE, ESQ., of Counsel
ALSO PRESENT:
PAUL CYNAMON, Videographer
FAYE RESNICK, having been previously sworn, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. Today is February 11th, 1996. The time is 10:33 a.m. This is tape number 3 of the continued videotape of Faye Resnick.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. PETROCELLI:
Q. Good morning, Ms. Resnick.
A. Good morning.
Q. If at any time you want to take a break, let us know. Feel free to stop at any time if you need to, okay? I would like to go back to sort of where we were yesterday at the end of the day. You were telling us about your conversation with Nicole before dinner at the Palmilla restaurant in Cabo San Lucas. Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. In that conversation, did Nicole say, one way or the other, whether she thought that O.J. Simpson might kill her?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
Q. Did she discuss the subject of whether -
A. Yes, she did.
Q. - of whether O.J. Simpson might or might not kill her?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, she did.
Q. What did she say on that subject?
A. She said that O.J. had always threatened to kill her in the past and that she believes now that that could be a possibility. That's it.
Q . Did she indicate why she thought that that might now be a possibility?
A. She said that once reliving all of the beatings that she had just relived in the past day, that she was able to see it clearly for what it was.
Q. Did Nicole express any concern to you about O.J. -
MR. PETROCELLI: Withdrawn.
Q. Did Nicole say anything to you about how O.J. Simpson might react when Nicole told him about her plan to end the relationship?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, she did.
Q. What did she say about that?
A. That was her biggest fear. She felt and she said to me that one of the reasons she had waited so long to end their relationship before asking for a divorce was that she was afraid he would follow through on the threats that he had made to her of killing her, if she left him, or if - she also said that she was very afraid of losing her children to him because he was, he had threatened to take her kids away. That's what she said.
Q. Did she say these things -
MR. PETROCELLI: Withdrawn.
Q. Did she say she feared these things now or in the past?
A. She said she had feared them in the past, that's why she didn't leave earlier, and she also said that she felt that they would come to fruition if she left him again.
Q. During this Cabo trip, did you ever hear O.J. Simpson discuss or talk about the subject of the agreements or ground rules that Nicole and he had set up for their reconciliation a year before?
A. Not during this particular trip to Cabo San Lucas, that was not discussed.
Q. And did you ever talk to O.J. Simpson about that at any time?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. When?
A. It was on a trip to Cabo San Lucas that Nicole and I had planned for Mother's Day. We took our children to Cabo by ourselves.
Q. I assume that's Mother's Day 1993?
A. 1993.
Q. Okay.
A. She had just initiated the reconciliation and O.J. - she told O.J. that she was going on a trip, we were taking our children, he asked her where, she said to Cabo San Lucas, and he asked if he could join us in Cabo. She asked me because it was my ex-husband's villa that we were staying in, and, of course, I said, if that's what you want, Nicole. O.J. stayed in my villa for - at that time it was my ex-husband's villa, since I had now divorced him - for five days, he stayed with us. And during that time the reconciliation almost fell apart and I had a conversation with O.J. after Nicole and he had a very large dispute, I asked him the -
Q. One moment, Ms. Resnick. Where were you with Mr. Simpson when you had this conversation?
A. We were outside the pool area, under the palapa.
Q. Just the two of you alone?
A. Just the two of us alone. Nicole was with the children in the pool upstairs in our villa.
Q. Tell me what Mr. Simpson said to you.
A. He said that Nicole would not talk to him, that she had called off the reconciliation, that - and I asked him why. I was downstairs already, so he came storming out of the villa after they had had this fight. So that's when I said, let's sit down, let's talk about what happened, and he said that he had told her what the boundaries were for their new relationship, their reestablished relationship and that she wasn't willing to meet his demands, and I asked him what -
Q. And he was not willing to -
A. She was not willing to meet his demands.
Q. Okay.
A. And I asked him at that time what they were and he had said that she did not want him interfering with her friendships, she did not want him controlling her, she did not want him to do drugs and she did not want him to beat her and she did not want him to have extramarital affairs. He disagreed with that and I had said to him that these are the same ground rules that you went into the relationship.
Q. When you say that O.J. Simpson disagreed with that, are you saying that he told you he disagreed with that?
A. Yes.
Q. What did he say to you after he told you that he disagreed with those ground rules?
A. That they were ridiculous. He said that she wants to - if she wants to have a relationship, she has to abide by the rules, and I said to him that those were not the ground rules - that those were the rules Nicole had set up originally when you two first started talking about the reconciliation. And he said he started telling her his ground rules and she also disagreed with those.
Q. What were his ground rules that he told you?
A. He told me that he didn't want her being, spending too much time with her friends, he didn't want her having male friendships, any males coming to their home. He wanted her to understand that she was now going to be in a relationship with him and that she would put him first, that he wanted to have her tell him about all of the different affairs that she had while they were separated, while she was a single woman.
Q. Did he tell you anything in this conversation about whether he was willing to be monogamous?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Yes, he did.
Q. What did he say on that subject?
A. He said that he was willing to do whatever it took to keep their marriage - to keep their marriage on the right track.
Q. Did O.J. Simpson say anything to you about this conversation with Nicole that you just mentioned wherein Nicole and he discussed their former or other romantic relationships?
A. Excuse me, did - the question is had I spoken to him about this before or after?
Q. Well, what I am trying to find out, Ms. Resnick, is whether you and Mr. Simpson had any conversations about Nicole and O.J. talking about their other relationships.
A. Yes, we did.
MR. LEONARD: May I interject for a minute? Because I think I am confused. These were all discussions that were had at the same time at Cabo, is that -
MR. PETROCELLI: Well, I don't know when this -
MR. LEONARD: Can we find out?
MR. PETROCELLI: Well, that's what I'm going to find out, if such discussions even occurred, and if they did, then I will find out when.
MR. LEONARD: But the discussions we have just been talking about did occur at Cabo?
MR. PETROCELLI: Everything so far she has been describing is the one at Cabo in Mother's Day of '93, okay?
Q. Now, my next question of you is whether you and O.J. Simpson ever have a conversation about O.J. and Nicole discussing their other relationships.
A. Yes, we did.
Q. When did you have that conversation with O.J. Simpson?
A. About a month later.
Q. A month later than Mother's Day of '93 ?
A . Yes.
Q. Where were you and he?
A. To my best recollection, it was over the telephone.
Q. Relate that conversation, please.
A. O.J. had invited Nicole for dinner at Georgio's restaurant and they were to work out their details, work out all of the problems. O.J. asked Nicole to tell him about every single man that she had ever been with while she was single, during the separation. And Nicole - O.J. told me she did not want to go into that, but O.J. insisted and he said he did. He said it was very important for them to air all of their dirty laundry, to work all of the details out, to know everything; if they were going to have a relationship, they must have everything on the table. Nicole felt that that was - Nicole had told him in Cabo San Lucas that that was a bad idea, she did not want to do that. But he had insisted and at the Georgio dinner she had told him everybody she had been with. She left out one name and, until he badgered her over it, and that was the name of Marcus Allen, because she was afraid to tell him.
Q. You are now - you are continuing to relate everything that O.J. Simpson said to you?
A. I am relating everything that O.J. Simpson said to me.
Q. In this telephone conversation?
A. In this telephone conversation, yes.
Q. Please continue.
A. I am only supposed to relate what he said to me; is that correct?
Q. You can also indicate what you said to him, in the same conversation.
MR. LEONARD: But the witness is representing that everything she said was things that O.J. represented to her, up until this point, is that right?
MR. PETROCELLI: Not represented to her, said to her.
MR. LEONARD: Said to her, okay.
A. Said to me. I asked him why he wanted to know those things. I told him that that was not part of the reconciliation, that was harmful, that they had agreed in Cabo San Lucas that they would not do that. That's one of the reasons why they continued to try to reconcile because they had come to an agreement in Cabo that they needed to compromise on their boundaries and that was against the agreement, and I also said to him that I didn't appreciate being put in that position, and he told me that she had told him that she was with Marcus Allen, against her will and that he just lost it. He felt - he said that he told Nicole that that was the one thing she should have never done, that if he ever saw her with Marcus again, he didn't know what he would do.
Q. That's what O.J. Simpson told you?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any knowledge of what the relationship between O.J. Simpson and Marcus Allen was?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Please tell us.
A. They were - they had been friends for many, many years. They - besides A.C. Cowlings, probably his second best friend.
Q. And how do you know that?
A. O.J. had said that when he said to me that, how could she be with one of my best friends. And I was familiar with their relationship because I was around.
MR. LEONARD: Did we get a date on that one?
MR. PETROCELLI: Yes.
MR. LEONARD: What date?
MR. PETROCELLI: One month after Mother's Day 1993.
MR. LEONARD: We don't have a location, or a telephone call -
MR. PETROCELLI: A telephone call.
MR. LEONARD: Okay.
Q . Did - yesterday, you said that there was an incident in which you saw O.J. Simpson act rageful that occurred at the Harley Davidson Cafe?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you describe that incident, please?
A. Nicole and I had flown to meet O.J. in New York in October the 16th, 1993, for the opening of his friend Mark Packer's restaurant in New York. We were told to pick up The Enquirer before we came, by O.J., Nicole was, so we did. And on the plane we were reading the article about Nicole and O.J.'s reconciliation.
Q. What's the time frame here?
A. October 16th.
Q. 19-what?
A. 1993.
Q. Please continue.
A. So we had read this article and it was about their reconciliation and then it went into the battering of 1989, and we landed in New York. Nicole was nervous because the article had restated the battering and she was nervous that O.J. would be upset. At first he wasn't; he was in a grand mood, he was very gracious and seemed to be very happy that we were there. We all got ready to - pardon me. We must have flown in on the 15th, because Christian Reichardt joined us on the 16th, joined us in New York. We had flown in a little earlier. And we all went to the Harley Davidson opening, which was fine. Then the next day we were still staying at their - with O.J. Christian had left that morning, so it was the three of us. We went out to dinner, once again at the Harley Davidson Cafe with Mark Packer and that was the day O.J. Simpson pulled out a vial of cocaine at the table. He became-
Q. What did he do with that cocaine?
A. He snorted it. He -
Q. Did you see him snort the cocaine?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. He did it in your presence?
A. He did it in everybody's presence.
Q. But you saw him do it?
A. Yes.
Q. This is October 1993?
A. Yes, it is.
Q. O.J. Simpson denied using cocaine at all in 1993. Would that be a lie?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. That would be a lie.
MR. MARKS: Would you care to ask the witness whether there was ever any other occasion on which you had seen O.J. do it?
MR. PETROCELLI: I plan to.
Q. O.J. Simpson has testified in his deposition, under oath, that he never used cocaine or any other illegal drug during the year 1993 and 1994, and I was not permitted to inquire in earlier years. Did you ever see O.J. Simpson take drugs, illegal drugs, other than on this occasion?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. How many other occasions?
A. One other occasion.
Q. When was that?
A. It was on the 23rd of December, 1993, at a Christmas party that Nicole and O.J. had had, a very intimate, just close friends. I arrived early and A.C. Cowlings was there, Nicole was there.
Q. Where was this?
A. At O.J.'s house on Rockingham.
Q. Please continue.
A. And O.J. was using cocaine that night.
Q. You saw him?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Do you remember where he was when he was using the cocaine?
A. He was sitting on the - we were in the living room and the cocaine he had taken from the bar area, where A.C. was standing, and Nicole and he were - Nicole was sitting at O.J.'s feet wrapping presents, and I saw him toot cocaine.
Q. Can you describe the visible effect that cocaine had on O.J. Simpson?
A. Yes, I can.
Q. Please do so.
A. O.J.'s face became very distorted. His jaw locked up. I can only say that he could hardly talk. He - it was weird, it was really weird. There was a physical change in him.
Q. At the Harley Davidson Cafe, did - where was he when you saw him take the cocaine, or use the cocaine?
A. I was situated - the table was a booth. Cocaine - oh, cocaine. O.J., pardon me, was sitting in the middle of the booth, I was sitting on this side, Nicole was sitting next to me, O.J. was here, Mark Packer was here.
Q. There in the restaurant?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever have any conversations with O.J. Simpson on the subject of his use of drugs?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. How many conversations?
A. I can't recall.
Q. A number of them?
A. I would say so.
Q. In these conversations, Ms. Resnick, did O.J. Simpson admit or deny the use of drugs?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. O.J. admitted to using drugs. It's no secret.
Q. Tell us what O.J. Simpson said to you in these conversations on the subject of drugs.
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Vague. Which conversation?
Q. On the number of conversations that you have witnessed -
MR. PETROCELLI: She just said she had with O.J. Simpson on the subject of drugs.
MR. LEONARD: Objection. You are asking the witness did O.J. say the same thing in each conversation? Is that what you are asking her?
MR. PETROCELLI: I am asking her to relate to us her recollection of her conversations with O.J. Simpson on the subject of drugs.
MR. LEONARD: Just in general, is that what you are asking?
MR. PETROCELLI: As generally or as specifically as she can recall.
MR. LEONARD: You don't care?
MR. PETROCELLI: I don't care about what?
MR. LEONARD: Whether it is general or specific?
MR. PETROCELLI: I just want her to give me best recollection.
MR. LEONARD: I object.
MR. PETROCELLI: You object to her giving her best recollection?
MR. LEONARD: Without specifying date, time and place, yes.
Q. If you can do so, specify date, time and place. If you can't, just give your best recollection. That's all we are entitled to have at a deposition or in court.
A. Okay. I had two conversations that stick out in my mind.
Q. Can you tell us when they occurred?
A. The first conversation occurred when I had had surgery in March of '93.
Q. A telephone conversation or -
A. A conversation with four people involved.
Q. Including O.J. Simpson?
A. Including O.J. Simpson.
Q. And the second conversation that sticks out in your mind occurred when?
A. The second conversation is when O.J. offered to provide me with however many drugs I wanted.
Q. When did that conversation occur?
A. The very end of Nicole's life.
Q. May or June?
A. The - I would say the middle of May or the mid - end of May.
Q. Of 1994?
A. 1994.
Q. Okay. Let's go back to the first conversation that sticks out in your mind, in March of 1993. Who were the persons involved in this conversation?
A. Christian Reichardt, O.J. Simpson, Nicole Simpson - Nicole Brown and myself.
Q. Where did this conversation occur?
A. It occurred at Toscana restaurant.
Q. What did O.J. Simpson say on the subject of drugs?
A. I had just one week before or six days before had an operation and my doctor had prescribed medication, pain medication for this operation, and we were at the dinner table and I went to take my pain medication with my meal, because that's when you take it, and O.J. said to me at that time, be careful, you know, I used to be addicted to co - to pills, and I said, I have been taking a pill to relieve some pain after a medication - I mean, after an operation, is a little bit different than an addiction to taking pills on a daily basis, and he - and that was that conversation.
Q. Did he say what pills he used to be addicted to taking?
A. He never told me the pills that he was addicted to.
Q. Now tell us about the conversation in mid-May 1994. Was that a telephone conversation or an in-person conversation?
A. In - pardon me?
Q. The second conversation that sticks out in your mind, you said occurred in mid-May 1994.
A. It was in person.
Q. Was there anyone else present besides O.J. Simpson and you?
A. Not to my recollection.
Q. Where did it take place?
MR. LEONARD: I don't think - I missed something, I was writing. Was this with O.J. alone? Is that what she testified to?
MR. MARKS: That's what she just said.
MR. LEONARD: Okay. I am sorry, I was just writing.
A. And it was - it is vague for me. I don't have much recall of this. I know he said to me if I ever needed any coke, he always had it.
Q. That's your best recollection?
A. That's my best recollection.
Q. Did you ever have any conversations with Nicole about drug use by O.J. Simpson?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did Nicole, in those conversations, say whether or not O.J. had used drugs?
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading. Vague
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Tell us what Nicole would say to you in those conversations about the subject of O.J. Simpson's use of drugs?
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Vague.
A. Nicole had said that O.J. was addicted to, from the time he was, when he was a football star, that he became addicted to every pill there was, to uppers to downers, she said he had a Christmas tree jar full of every kind of pill, and they called it their - he called it his Christmas tree because it was every color of the lights that we would see on a Christmas tree. She said that they were - that he needed to have pills to go to sleep, he needed to have pills to wake up, he needed to have pills for pain, he needed to have a lot of speed during the time that he was playing pro ball. She had essentially said that he was addicted to his - to every kind of pill there was.
Q. Did Nicole Simpson ever discuss with you whether or not O.J. Simpson used drugs, let's say, from 1990 to 1994, in that time frame?
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading. Vague.
Q. You may answer.
A. Nicole said that there were times when O.J. would use drugs heavily.
Q. During that time frame?
A. During all the time frame that she knew him. And there were times that he wouldn't. You know, he was a periodic user and it was very well known to everybody. It was certainly well known to Nicole. And O.J. never denied that at all. It seemed to be common knowledge and it wasn't something he was embarrassed of. In fact, you know, as long as he just didn't - it was just common knowledge, also.
Q. Do you know whether O.J. Simpson ever took XENIX?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. No, I do not.
Q. Are you aware of an incident in which O.J. Simpson took from Nicole's condo a XENIX pill bottle?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. No, I am not.
Q. Are you aware of whether or not Nicole had XENIX pills, around May or June of 1994?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. No, I am not.
Q. Are you aware of whether [Name Deleted] ever prescribed pills for Nicole?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. [Name Deleted] prescribed pills for anyone and everyone.
Q. You mean, in his capacity as a physician?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know whether he prescribed pills for people he was not treating?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, he did.
Q. To whom?
A. He was not treating me. He prescribed pills, XENIX, to me. Valium. Pardon me. He prescribed. Everybody knew that [Name Deleted], you could get anything you wanted from [Name Deleted], and he always had XENIX.
Q. Who is [Name Deleted], do you know?
A. I believe that's [Name Deleted] mother.
Q. [Name Deleted] mother?
A. [Name Deleted] mother, sorry.
Q. [Name Deleted]'s mother is [Name Deleted]?
A. I believe so.
Q. Did the pill bottles that [Name Deleted] dispense to you have, or prescribe for you, have your name on them or some other name?
A. Mine had my name.
Q. Okay. Do you know whether [Name Deleted] ever gave O.J. Simpson pills?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. I don't have knowledge of that.
Q. Do you know whether he ever gave Nicole pills?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. I don't have knowledge of that.
Q. Did Nicole ever tell you that she was missing some pills from her house, in May or June of 1994?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. What did she say about that?
A. She said she was missing her Star Caps.
Q. What are Star Caps?
A. They are a - they are a papaya extract. Just Star Caps.
Q. Did she say what happened to them?
A. No, she did not.
Q. Do you know whether Nicole was abusing drugs in the period January through June of 1994? MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, I do know. She was not.
Q. And what is the answer?
A. She was not.
Q. Do you know whether she was taking illegal drugs during that period of time, January to June of '94?
A. January to June of 1994?
Q. Yes.
A. Nicole was - took drugs once in a blue moon. I don't - I think I have only seen her, at the most, twice, in the entire two years I have known her.
Q. At page 262 of his deposition, O.J. said that in January 1994 that Nicole Simpson was in trouble, and that Nicole thought she was going to get in some trouble and that Nicole needed his help. That is at page 263, excuse me.
MR. MARKS: Please wait until he finishes his question.
Q . Do you know anything about whether Nicole was in trouble in January of 1994?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the form of the question.
Q. Do you have any knowledge or information about that?
A. Absolutely not.
Q. Do you know whether Nicole was abusing drugs in January 1994 to the point that she would be in trouble?
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading.
A. Absolutely not. January 1994, we had just - no, no. Not at all.
Q. Do you know whether Nicole was abusing alcohol in the period January through June of 1994?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. She was not. She was a social drinker. I know of no time that I had ever seen Nicole abuse drugs or alcohol.
Q. In reference to Mr. Simpson's testimony that Nicole was in trouble in January of 1994, do you have any information at all on whether or not she was in trouble? A. Absolutely not. She was not. She was in a fine mood. She was moving into her condominium. She was happy.
Q. What was her physical condition in January 1994?
A. The same physical condition that I have seen her since I have known her. In great physical shape.
Q. What was her mental and emotional condition in January 1994 ?
A. She was as happy as could be. She had just bought her condominium.
Q. At page 1,204 or thereabouts in Mr. Simpson's deposition, O.J. Simpson testifies that, or testified, that Nicole was having a breakdown after the trip, after Mr. Simpson's trip to Puerto Rico. Let me see if I can find that for you. At page 1,204 of Mr. Simpson's deposition:
"Question: What happened after Puerto Rico to set you back with Nicole?
"Answer: Well, while I was in Puerto Rico, something was going on with Nicole. She was, like, she even said to me on two occasions she felt like she was having a nervous breakdown, but she couldn't explain why or what it was, it was just - I would talk to her one minute, she was the Nicole I knew. And then if I talked to her the next day, she was somebody I didn't know.
"I expressed my concern to her mother while I was in Puerto Rico. I tried to get a hold of Cora, but she was going through her problems. I talked to Faye, who blamed it on Cora, and when I came home, I just - it was just something I did not want to have to deal with in my life. I just didn't want to deal with it anymore."
End of quotes.
MR. LEONARD: Is there a question?
MR. PETROCELLI: Well, if you would permit me time to ask it, I will do so now, Mr. Leonard.
Q. Having now read that testimony to you, do you know whether or not Nicole was manifesting signs of a nervous breakdown in or around April or May of 1994?
MR. LEONARD: I object to the form of the question, to the preamble. It's leading. Go ahead, answer.
Q. You may answer the question.
A. I have no knowledge of Nicole ever having anywhere close to a nervous breakdown. I - she was very stressed at the end of her life, due to the fact that her life was threatened.
Q By whom?
A. By O.J. Simpson. But at that particular time that you are talking about, Nicole just didn't want to talk to O.J. He would call her constantly and she would tell him, stop calling me.
Q. Now, the particular time is when O.J. Simpson went to Puerto Rico after Cabo.
A. Right.
Q. And this is April 1994?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, O.J. Simpson testified, as you just heard me read from his transcript, that he talked to you about his concern over Nicole and that you blamed it on Cora. Did you and O.J. Simpson have a conversation, while O.J. Simpson was in Puerto Rico?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. How many such conversations did you have?
MR. PETROCELLI: Withdrawn.
Q. Did you have more than one conversation?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Now, Mr. Simpson was in Puerto Rico and you were where, during these conversations?
A. In my - at my home during one of the conversations, and the other one was in my office.
Q. Did you ever have a conversation with Mr. Simpson when he was in Puerto Rico and you were still in Cabo?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Okay. So after Cabo, you went back to Los Angeles?
A. Yes.
Q. And while you were in Los Angeles, you received calls from Mr. Simpson, who was then in Puerto Rico filming Frogman?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. How many calls do you remember having, two?
A. To my best recollection, two.
Q. In those calls did O.J. Simpson express to you his concern about Nicole having a nervous breakdown?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. No, he did not.
Q. Did he discuss with you the subject of Nicole having a nervous breakdown?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. No, he did not.
Q. Did he talk to you at all about the physical or emotional or mental condition of Nicole in those conversations?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And what did he say?
A. He said that Nicole had not called him, she was not returning his faxes, that he was afraid she was leaving him but she would not tell him that for sure, that Nicole was not acting as the dutiful wife, that - because she wasn't having her children call him either. He just - he couldn't understand why Nicole didn't want to talk to him.
Q. Was that the thrust of what he was saying to you in those conversations?
MR. LEONARD: I object. Vague.
Q. In other words, was he - was this the main topic that he discussed with you or did he discuss other topics?
A. We discussed other topics but that was the main topic, that he wanted to know from me why she was not responding to him.
Q. Did he say anything, though, about whether Nicole was having any problems mentally or physically?
A. He never mentioned that once.
Q. Did he express any concern in that regard?
A. For her health?
Q. Yes.
A. Never.
Q. Okay. And did he say anything to you to which you blamed on Cora?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Absolutely not.
Q. Did Cora come up in these conversations, Cora being Cora Fishman?
A. She could have come up in these conversations. I - I am not sure which conversation over the phone it was. We did discuss Cora over the phone, yes, we did, but I cannot say that it was during this particular, one of these conversations.
Q. Now, in these conversations with Mr. Simpson, did you blame anything on Cora?
A. No.
Q. You said Mr. Simpson was talking to you about why Nicole wasn't returning calls and faxes'?
A. Yes.
Q. What did you tell Mr. Simpson?
A. That she needed some time, that she felt overwhelmed by him and that she just needed some time by herself from him.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Simpson that Nicole had related to you her history of abuse and threats at the hands of O.J. Simpson?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Not at that time, I did not.
Q. By that - by the time of these two conversations, you had already had your conversations with Nicole that you related yesterday concerning abuse and threats by O.J. Simpson.
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Simpson, in these two telephone conversations, about that?
A. No, I did not, intentionally.
Q. Did you tell Mr. Simpson that you would try to mediate between Nicole and him?
A. I told O.J. that I would - that I would - I just tried to get him to calm down, that's all I wanted him to do. I didn't want to give him any information. I was afraid to tell him that Nicole was going to leave him. I just wanted him to calm down.
Q. You knew in those conversations, from Nicole, that she had made the decision to leave Mr. Simpson?
A. Absolutely.
Q. And you did not tell that to him?
A. No, I did not.
Q. What was your reason for not telling him?
A. I was afraid.
Q. Did you think it was -
MR. PETROCELLI: Withdrawn.
Q. Could you tell from your conversations with Mr. Simpson, these two conversations, that Nicole had not yet told him?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Absolutely. He said she had not communicated with him at all except to answer the phone. She just didn't want to talk to him, she told him.
Q. And Mr. Simpson wanted to know what was going on?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And you didn't tell him?
A. Absolutely not.
Q. Now, you said you tried to calm him down. Did - what could you make of his mental or emotional state from the telephone conversation?
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Vague.
A. Why don't I just -
Q. In other words, did he appear calm, did he appear agitated? How did he appear to you, over the telephone?
A. Very agitated, very nervous.
Q. Did he say anything about his plans in terms of Nicole?
A. He wanted me to tell him whether Nicole was planning on leaving him or not because he said that he needed to know because if she was going to leave him, he didn't want to come back because he didn't know what he would do. He would just go to Florida, and he begged me to tell him. If she was -
Q. Did he -
A. Sorry. I needed to finish this.
Q. Please.
A. He felt she must be seeing another man at the time because she was not responding.
Q. That's what he said to you?
A. Yes.
Q. He said that if he found out she was not going to continue the relationship with him that he would go to where?
A. Florida.
Q. Did he tell you what he would do in Florida?
A. I can't remember that.
Q. Do you know what Florida had to do with anything?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, I do.
Q. What?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Paula Barbieri lived in Florida.
Q. So you understood, when he said, I'll go to Florida, that he would go to see Ms. Barbieri?
MR. LEONARD: Objection to the leading.
A. Yes. That's why I didn't even ask the question. I knew exactly what he was saying.
Q. Did you report these two conversations to Nicole?
A. I certainly did.
Q . What did Nicole say to you after you told her about these conversations?
A. She said that he had been calling and she was not wanting to deal with it. She felt - one of the conversations that I had with Nicole was when we were sitting on the sofa at my home watching Entertainment Tonight, and O.J. was in Puerto Rico filming The Frogman, and he was on the screen in front of us and I said, I asked her, how did she feel seeing him, knowing that she wanted to end their relationship, and she said, those arms - he had his arms exposed in this frogman outfit. She said, I'm afraid those arms will kill me one day. And she said that she did not want to - she needed some time before telling him that she was not going to see him because she was in fear, that if she told him, he would do something harmful to her.
Q. Did she tell you when she planned to tell Mr. Simpson that she had decided to end the relationship?
A. Well, yes, she did. She was going to tell him immediately - she was going to tell him before he came back but she just wasn't able to that day and I asked her not to tell him until after Christian's party because, to be quite honest with you, I was afraid what would happen. I was - and I didn't know what he would do. I knew what mood he was in, I knew that he was absolutely hostile in the conversations. I was nervous and I asked her not to say anything until two days after he got back because I had planned and catered a party for my ex-fiance at the time, for his birthday, and O.J. insisted that he be there and that I, in fact, rearrange the schedule of the birthday until he was there on the 30th, which I had it arranged for the 28th.
Q. April?
A. Yes, April 28th.
Q. So you were back in Los Angeles before the 30th of April, I take it?
A. Yes, we were.
Q. In your conversations with Mr. Simpson on the telephone, was there any discussion of the subject of womanizing?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. On which - the last conversations - you mean, at all?
Q. No. When Mr. Simpson phoned you one or more occasions from Puerto Rico, did you and he ever discuss the subject of womanizing?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. I - not to my best recollection. I can't recall that right now.
Q. Did you ever discuss - did you discuss that subject with Nicole during this time? The answer is -
A. Yes.
Q. Relate that discussion.
A. My discussions with Nicole over womanizing were so many, it is hard to keep them -
Q. What about the subject of womanizing by O.J. Simpson in Puerto Rico? Did you ever have a discussion with Nicole about that?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Tell us about that.
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Nicole and I had heard reports that O.J. was radar tracking in Puerto Rico and that was that he was seeing - you know, he was openly flirtatious. Anyway, this is what we had heard.
Q. Did O.J. Simpson ever say anything to you on whether he could have other women besides Nicole?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Many times.
Q. What did he say to you about that?
A. He said that Nicole should be lucky that he was in love with her because he had 50 million women who would love to be with him, that he had his pick and that he has picked her and that she should just feel very fortunate.
Q. Who said that to you?
A. O.J. Simpson.
Q. More than once?
A. Many times.
Q. During this time when Mr. Simpson was in Puerto Rico and you and Nicole were in Los Angeles, did you ever have a discussion with Nicole about seeing a therapist or an attorney?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. What did you say to Nicole in that regard?
A. I said she needed to talk to an attorney, she needed to call the police, she needed to see a therapist, she needed to go into - she needed as much protection as possible.
MR. LEONARD: Are we talking about a single conversation?
THE WITNESS: There was quite a few conversations.
Q. We are talking about the time period after Cabo, late April, early May 1994?
A. I did not have that conversation with her until after O.J. Simpson had threatened her life, to me, and then to her.
Q. So the chronology -
A. So that would be after May 3rd.
Q. So the chronology is that at some point you had a conversation with O.J. Simpson in which he threatened Nicole's life?
A. Yes. It alarmed me and I wanted to protect her as much as I could.
Q. After you had that alarming conversation with O.J. Simpson, what did you say to Nicole?
A. I told her the exact nature of the conversation. I told her that I felt it was serious. I told her that I had told Christian Reichardt about it, I asked her if I could call 911. I asked her what I should do. And she asked me not to do anything. She asked me not to talk to anyone about it, that she was afraid that if she exposed it or if we exposed it, that he would do it for sure, that he had threatened her life many times in the past. I asked her - I pleaded with her to call her attorney, call her therapist, call his therapist, and let the police know. I wanted her to document it, I wanted her to - I wanted her to save her life.
Q. When you had that conversation with O.J. Simpson that you just mentioned, where he threatened to kill Nicole and you were very alarmed, where were you?
A. I was on my sofa in my home.
Q. Where was O.J. Simpson?
A. O.J. Simpson had just come back from Puerto Rico. He was in Los Angeles. I believe he was in his home. I don't -
Q. This was on the telephone?
A. It was a telephone call.
Q. All right. So you don't know exactly where he was.
A. I don't know exactly where he was.
Q. Did he call you?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. Now, at the time of this call, do you know whether Nicole had told O.J. that the relationship was over?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Do you know how long before this call - excuse me, do you know how long before this telephone call that you had Nicole had told O.J. the relationship was over?
A. Within minutes.
Q. Your understanding is that Nicole told O.J. it was over and then O.J. called you?
A. Yes.
Q. Let me back up. How did you find out how and when Nicole had told O.J. the relationship was over?
A. Nicole had told me over the phone that she was planning on telling him. I asked her if she had followed through on everything that I asked her to do. She said she had taken care of things. She said she had asked him to go and see his therapist, that she had found out the therapist - she asked O.J. if he talked about abuse and the threats to the therapist, and O.J. said no, he did not. And Nicole at that point could not hold back and she said, you're not trying to get help, you're not being honest, you're not telling the therapist about how you beat me, you're not telling the therapist the truth, so how can we continue this? I cannot be with you anymore And O.J. had called me and told me the same conversation.
Q. Okay. Let me back up a minute to see if I get the sequence of events correct. Had the -
A. Excuse me, may I take a break, please?
Q. Yes.
A. Thank you.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 11:33 and we are going off the record.
(Recess taken.)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 11:55 and we are back on the record.
BY MR. PETROCELLI:
Q. Just to get our bearings back, Ms. Resnick, right before we broke you were relating the conversation that you had with Nicole in which she told you that she had just told O.J. Simpson about the breakup of their relationship, and that conversation was then followed by one that you had with O.J. Simpson about the same subject. Is that right?
A. She had said that she was alluding to the fact that she was breaking up with O.J., in the conversation that I had with her.
Q. The telephone conversation?
A. No. I was - I had talked to her that day, we had coffee.
Q. Okay, well, let me back up, then, let me see if I can get this clear in my mind. I am going to ask you a couple of other questions first. Just bear with me. Did Nicole accede to your request to not tell Mr. Simpson about the breakup until Christian's party?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Did the party go forward as planned?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. Did Nicole attend?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Did O.J. Simpson attend?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And do you know whether -
MR. PETROCELLI: Withdrawn.
Q. O.J. had just come back from Puerto Rico?
A. That day she had picked him up from the airport, yes.
Q. And your understanding, based on your conversations with Nicole, was that she would not tell Mr. Simpson about the breakup before the Christian party, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And based on your observations of O.J. and Nicole at the party, did that seem to be true?
A. Oh, yes, it was.
Q. They both attended the party, right?
A. Yes, they did.
Q. How did they behave?
A. Very loving.
Q. And soon after the party, like the next day or so, did you have a conversation with Nicole about what her plans were?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And relate - well, when did the conversation occur?
A. The next day, after the party, I said to her-
Q. On the telephone?
A. - on the telephone, that you two had looked very happy, and I asked if she was going to follow through on breaking up with him, and she said that indeed she was.
Q. When did you next talk to her about that?
A. The next day.
Q. In person?
A. In person.
Q. Over coffee? Is that -
A. This is the conversation that we had over coffee.
Q. Where?
A. Starbucks.
Q. In Brentwood?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, relate that conversation, please.
MR. LEONARD: This is two days after the party?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q. I guess it is about May 2, 1994, at Starbucks, in Brentwood, California.
A. On San Vincente Boulevard.
Q. Please relate that conversation.
A. I wanted to - she had told me that she and O.J. went to the House of Blues because she had called me - O.J. had actually called me, pardon me, to ask if I could get him a good table because a friend of mine was the owner of the R&B Live, and he was, that night they were having their different jazz musicians, rhythm and blues musicians performing, and he asked me if I could get him a good table. Of course, I said that I would call my friend, and I did. I was confused, so I asked Nicole, are you planning on attending with O.J. the rhythm and blues tonight, and she said that they were, and I asked her once again if she was going to break up with him, and she said yes, she was. She said that O.J. was seeing a shrink that day and that she had hoped that the shrink could calm him down and that it would be easier. And that's what the conversation consisted of. Then I received a phone call from O.J. telling me that he had seen his psychologist and that -
Q. One second, Ms. Resnick. This conversation that you had with O.J. occurred after the Starbucks Coffee with Nicole?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. On the same day?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. Tell me what O.J. Simpson said - was this a telephone conversation?
A. Mm-hmm, yes.
Q. Tell me what O.J. Simpson said to you in this telephone conversation.
A. That he had seen his psychiatrist or psychologist - I am not sure which one it was, I believe it was psychologist - and that he assured him, that O.J. - O.J. had said that his psychologist said that he was overwhelming Nicole and this was the reason why she had backed off in the last few weeks and why she wasn't returning his phone calls, that he had felt that he should calm down and take it slow and not be so obsessive about the relationship, that Nicole would - the gist of it was that he was overwhelming Nicole and that he needed to calm down and give her time. He seemed very pleased. And now there was quite a few conversations the same day, on this particular day. It was back and forth.
Q. Between whom?
A. Between myself, O.J. and Nicole. There was many of them.
Q. They were both calling you?
A. They were both calling me. So then O.J. had called back and he said that Nicole had called him and told him that she never wanted to see him again and that the relationship was over, that he was too much of a man for her and that she was afraid of him. And he went on ranting and raving that it was my fault, why -
Q. Whose fault?
A. My fault.
Q. Faye Resnick's fault?
A. Yes. Why hadn't I told him that she was planning on leaving him, when he was in Puerto Rico, why did I let him go this long without telling him. He said he knew that I knew exactly what Nicole was planning on doing and he was blaming me for not telling him and he was becoming very aggressive with me on the phone in this conversation. And I said to him that - I tried to calm him down because at this point I was now afraid that he was going to harm me also, and since he was blaming me and since he was screaming at me over this telephone conversation, I just asked him if he went to see his psych - what else happened in his session. He said that he didn't understand why Nicole had wanted to leave him, and I said at that time, I couldn't keep it back any longer, I said, because you have beaten her in the past, you have threatened her. She's afraid of you. And that's when he said, You lied to me, I know she is seeing another man, and if I catch her with another man before August, I will kill her; that she was supposed to play the dutiful wife, because she had humiliated him in the past, that he would not let her humiliate him again in the public by leaving him, especially because she begged him to come back; that he couldn't take it and that he would have to kill her.
Q. O.J. Simpson said all of that to you?
A. Yes.
Q. And this was a telephone conversation that occurred on or about May 2?
A. Yes.
Q. 1994?
A. Yes.
MR. LEONARD: Excuse me, I am just going to object to that. I think it misstates her testimony. I thought she said it did happen on May 2nd. Isn't that what she said?
THE WITNESS: I said initially that it happened May 2nd or May 3rd.
Q. Okay, that's fine.
MR. LEONARD: Okay.
Q. That's fine, Ms. Resnick.
MR. PETROCELLI: You will get your chance, Mr. Leonard.
A. To my best recollection, it was on May 2nd.
Q. Now, in this telephone conversation that you just described, Ms. Resnick, was this the first time you had ever disclosed to O.J. Simpson your knowledge of his prior abuse?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Did he say anything to you about the abuse when you brought it up in the conversation?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. What did he say?
A. He said that he doesn't beat her anymore.
Q. He used the words "anymore"?
A. Mm-hmm. Yes, he did.
Q. Did he say anything else?
A. He said that - when I asked him why he didn't talk to his therapist about it, that's when he said it's, there's nothing to discuss, I don't beat her anymore. And he said that he just - he didn't like talking about it. He wanted to - I told him that he was skirting the issues, that they were deep and they were serious, and I reminded him that he had just told me that he would kill Nicole, and he reiterated that he had no option, essentially, that she was bringing it on herself.
Q. At any time did he deny ever hitting Nicole?
MR. LEONARD: Objection to the leading.
A. He never denied hitting Nicole. He admitted to hitting Nicole when I said to him, You have beaten her before, and he said, I have not beaten her. I don't beat her anymore.
Q. Did you take the threats seriously?
A. I took them very seriously.
Q. Did you think he was kidding?
A. Under the circumstances, absolutely not.
Q. When he was saying these things to you about how he was going to kill Nicole and how he was being humiliated and shamed by her and all of those things you described, was he laughing?
A. He was aggressive, he was out of control, he was spewing with anger. It was frightening for me to be on the other end of the phone, having even the distance of our homes. I was afraid.
Q. When you got off the phone, what did you do?
A. I had talked - Nicole had broken in and told me the same thing, that she had talked to him, and I said to her, I'll be right over, and I went over to Nicole's house.
Q. Before you get into that, Ms. Resnick, did you tell anyone in your home what had just happened?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Who did you tell?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. I told Christian Reichardt, my then fiance.
Q. What did you tell Christian?
A. I told Christian that O.J. had told me that he would kill Nicole and that I was nervous for Nicole and Christian - and I told him that he was very angry and I was afraid he would do it.
Q. How did the call with O.J. Simpson end, before you told Nicole that you would be right over to her house?
A. Nicole, I believe, broke through the line and she had called me at the end of that, and I said, I have to go to take this call, and that's when I talked to Nicole, told her I would be right over.
Q. Were you afraid for Nicole at that time?
A. Extremely afraid for Nicole.
Q. By the way, was there any kind of friendship or relationship between Christian Reichardt and O.J. Simpson?
A. Yes, there was.
Q. Was there any business association?
A. Indeed there was.
Q. Could you just describe for us what their relationship, friendship, businesswise or any other wise, was between Christian and O.J. Simpson?
A. Christian - I had introduced Christian to O.J. when Nicole and O.J. reconciled, and that was, they - due to the fact we were always going out, having dinners together, they became acquainted. During, I would say, from the time in Laguna Beach, which was July, they had become fairly well acquainted and Christian was now, had now considered O.J. his friend. He was very protective of O.J. and he admired O.J.
Q. What was their business connection?
A. Their business connection was O.J. had called Christian during the time that Nicole and O.J. were having troubles, in the very end, right after our trip to - it was right - pardon me, it was right before or right after our trip to Cabo San Lucas - and asked Christian if he wanted to go into business with him. Christian agreed, happily.
Q. What was Christian's occupation?
A. Christian was a chiropractor.
Q. What was Christian's reaction when you told him what O.J. Simpson had just said to you, after you got off the telephone with him?
A. Christian said that people don't tell you they are going to kill somebody and then kill somebody. They don't - that people, that men say that all the time. And I said I had never heard anyone say that before, especially under these circumstances. He didn't take it - he didn't seem to put much credence in it.
Q. Did he get on the phone at any time and listen in or participate in your call with Mr. Simpson?
A. He answered the phone many times when O.J. Simpson called and he was there many times when I had conversations with him. Due to the fact that O.J. Simpson used to call me at 1 or 2 o'clock in the morning, Christian typically used to answer the phone and hand it to me.
Q. Just staying with that for the moment, were there ever any occasions when O.J. Simpson might call you as many as 20 or 30 times in a day?
A. I cannot say that he called me 20 or 30 times in a day. I can recall feeling, knowing that and saying to him that I had been talking to him all day long on and off and all night long, that I needed to get some sleep, I was a mother, I had a business, I had my own life.
Q. Was this particularly true in this May 1994 time frame?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. Now, getting back to my question a moment ago, did Christian listen in or participate in on any part of this call with O.J. Simpson when he made the threats to kill Nicole?
A. No, he did not.
Q. Do you know whether he picked up the phone and then called O.J. Simpson after you got off the phone with him?
A. Not to my knowledge.
Q. And it was your observation that Mr. Reichardt was not taking this seriously?
A. Yes. He did not take it seriously.
Q. What did you then do? You went to Nicole's?
A. I went to Nicole's, I told her -
Q. Where, at Bundy?
A. At Bundy.
MR. LEONARD: Excuse me, this is right after the calls, we are talking about?
MR. PETROCELLI: Correct.
MR. LEONARD: Okay.
Q. Keep going.
A. I went to Nicole's house and tried to make a plan to save her life.
Q. Tried to what?
A. Make a plan to save her life.
Q. What plan did you try to make?
A. I wanted Nicole to leave, to get away. I wanted her, before that, to call the police. We argued over that. I felt it was essential she did. I wanted her to prove to me that she was taking, was taking the right steps to saving herself. I told her that O.J.'s biggest concern was that she was seeing another man and that he didn't want to be humiliated, and she promised me she wouldn't see anybody else. She promised that she would try and keep him calm because she wouldn't leave. She wouldn't - she said that Sydney had her communion coming up and that she wasn't -
Q. Communion?
A. Communion.
Q. Religious communion?
A. Yes. The holy communion. And that she wasn't willing to uproot her children and that she wasn't willing to let her children be affected by his behavior.
Q. When you went to Nicole's, did you tell Nicole what O.J. said on the phone to you?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. You repeated what O.J. said?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And what was Nicole's reaction?
A. She said he had said the same thing, he had told her the same thing that day and that he had said it many times before, that he had -
Q. Who?
A. - that O.J. had told her many times before he would kill her, and I asked her what August meant and she said that's when he leaves for New York to do his broadcasting.
Q. Did Nicole explain to you what, why Mr. Simpson had said she should not see anyone until August?
A. Nicole had said that, he wants me to play his wife and I can't live my life for O.J. Simpson. If he is going to kill me, let him get it over with. Because she was living in a nightmare.
Q. She wanted - excuse me, Nicole told you that O.J. wanted her to play the role of his wife while he was still in town? A. Yes.
Q. Now, based on your observations of Nicole in this conversation, did you believe that she was taking Mr. Simpson's threats to kill her seriously ?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, she was.
Q. How did you observe how Nicole was responding to the threats of Mr. Simpson?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. My observation of Nicole was that she was used to them. She was mad. She was angry at it. She didn't - she was furious at him.
Q. In this conversation with you?
A. Yes.
Q. She expressed that?
A. Yes, she did. She was used to it.
Q. Where were the two of you sitting when you had - where were the two of you?
A. In the living room of her home on Bundy.
Q. Were the two of you alone?
A. Yes, we were.
Q. Did you and she discuss whether she would talk to anyone about this?
A. She said that she had - that she would not call the police, that she would talk to her therapist. I asked her if she would talk to his therapist also. She assured me that she had taken, that she was going to take the right steps in order to protect herself.
Q. Did she tell you what those steps were?
A. She said that she had written them for her - that she was going to talk with her attorney and she was going to give him all the information.
Q. Did she tell you why she would not tell the police?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. What did she say?
A. She said that if she went to the - that the police had never helped her in the past, that she had told them over and over, they had even seen her when she was being beaten, why would they take her seriously now, she had no bruises on her. She said that she didn't feel that the police had ever protected her before, why should they protect her now. And then she also went on to say that she felt that it could only add to the situation by infuriating O.J. Simpson because the press would find out about it and his fans would find out about it and - she was afraid that it would really happen then.
Q. She was afraid -
A. And she was afraid that if she made it public, that there would be no, that she would definitely die.
Q. That's what she told you?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, did you - what was your reaction? Did you agree, did you argue with her about it? What was your reaction?
A. I argued with her about it. That's what our arguments were about. I felt that, as I still feel, that if there's a problem, you bring it out in the open. I feel - I felt at that time and I told her that I disagreed with her decision, that her safety would be that the public was aware of it, the police were aware of it, that if everyone knew of these threats that she was not - that he wouldn't be able to. Then she said, He will kill me and he will get away with it. And I said, What are you talking about? And she said, He has gotten away with everything in his life and he will make it my fault.
Q. Did you ever call the police on your own?
A. I wasn't allowed to, and I should have.
Q . Yet you did not?
A. I did not.
Q. Why didn't you?
A. I promised Nicole I wouldn't. I promised her I wouldn't.
Q. Let me step back for a minute. Did Nicole - was Nicole dating anyone during this period of time, early May 1994, to your knowledge?
MR. MARKS: Please repeat the question. And perhaps we should take a short break.
THE WITNESS: I'll be okay.
Q. In this time frame, early May 1994, and in particular during the time of this conversation when Nicole told you that she would not see anyone until August, do you know whether she was, in fact, seeing anyone at that time?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. You now know, right?
A. I knew then, too.
Q. You knew even then? You have to answer audibly. Yes?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And who was Nicole then seeing?
A. Nicole started seeing Marcus Allen in the end, right before she died, again.
Q. Right at the end. And how did you find that out?
A. I was told by Cynthia Shahian, by Cora Fishman, and one day I was driving past Nicole's house and I saw Marcus's car parked in front of her house.
Q. How did you know that was Marcus Allen's car?
A. I had seen his cars many times.
Q. Can you remember the make of the car that you saw, that you believe was Marcus Allen's car?
A. It was a black car.
Q. Did you ever discuss with Nicole that you believe that she was now seeing Marcus Allen?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. What did you say to her? First of all, did you talk to her in person or was that on the telephone, or both?
A. I called her on the telephone from my office and -
Q. And what did you say to her?
A. I saw the cars, I was on my way to the office, and I called her and I asked her if that was his car, and she said it was, reluctantly. And I told her that she had broken her deal and that I felt that she was setting herself up for murder.
Q. You told her that? You have to answer audibly.
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did she acknowledge seeing Marcus Allen?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Did she tell you why she was seeing him?
A. She said that she was no longer seeing O.J. and that she loved him.
Q. She loved whom?
A. Marcus.
Q. Was Marcus married at that time?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. Did you ever see Nicole and Marcus together during this time frame?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Do you know whether anyone else saw them together during this time frame?
A. I don't - I don't know.
Q. As best as you can recall, when was this conversation with Nicole in which you and she discussed her seeing Marcus Allen again?
A. It was right before Nicole was murdered, it was the last two weeks of her life.
Q. Now, at some point did you spend some days at Nicole's condo with her during this time frame?
A. Yes, l did.
Q. How many days did you spend there? Where you slept over, I mean.
MR. LEONARD: Which time frame are you talking about?
MR. PETROCELLI: This time frame, which is the last two weeks of Nicole's life.
MR. LEONARD: Okay.
A. In May, in the end of May I spent two days at her house, because Christian and I were having a fight. And right before Nicole died, on June 2nd or 3rd, I had, I was spending, I would say, three days, I had spent three days at Nicole's house.
Q. And then you, after those three days, went where?
A. I went and stayed at my girlfriend Kathy Harouche's house.
Q. And then, from there, you went -
A. I went back to Christian's house.
Q. And then, from there, you went -
A. To Exodus Recovery Center.
Q. Do you remember the date you entered Exodus?
A. June 9, 1994.
Q. When you slept over at Nicole's in early June and in late May, where did you sleep?
A. I slept on the sofa.
Q. In what room?
A. In the den.
Q. Is that on the downstairs floor, where the kitchen is?
A. Yes.
Q. During that time did Nicole give you a key to her condo so that you could get in and out, or a garage door opener or both ?
A. No, she did not because - no, she did not.
Q. Did she attempt to do so?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Tell me what happened.
A. When I first came - when I first arrived, she asked me if I needed a key, and I said I didn't need one because I was spending, wherever we would go places, we would go together, so it wasn't necessary.
Q. What time frame was this? Was this the two times, the two nights you spent over in late May when you had the fight with Christian -
A. No, the last time.
Q. The part in early June?
A. Yeah.
Q. And by the way, what was the reason you went to stay with Nicole during these three days in early June?
A. Christian and I had broken off our - I had broken my engagement off with Christian. He was becoming very aggressive and very volatile. He was upset that I had broken our engagement and I -
Q. That's the reason?
A. And we were fighting.
Q. Okay. So getting back to Nicole's going to give you a key and/or garage door opener, tell me about that.
A. Nicole - when I asked Nicole - I felt very - I had felt and Nicole had felt that we were being followed and I had said to Nicole that I was nervous that we were going to be killed by O.J. and that I would appreciate it if she, if we could go away until he calmed down and now Nicole had the excuse of Sydney's recital and she could not leave. I said to her that I felt like I was trapped in this hellish relationship with her and I was afraid for both of our lives at that point because I knew that O.J. was angry at me, too, for lying to him. I wanted to leave that house because I felt it was dangerous, and Nicole would not go with me so - she wanted to give me the key to her house in case I changed my mind. So we went downstairs and she went through the drawer in the kitchen to give me her running set of keys.
Q. What did that look like?
A. It was a very small - the key chain she used to run with, it was very small, had a couple of keys on it with some, a bear or something on it.
Q. A bear on it? A bear on the key chain?
A. A bear on the ring.
Q. There was a ring which she would wear, which had a key chain with two keys attached to it?
A. Yes.
Q. And on the ring there was a little bear?
A. Yes.
Q. And you say that she would wear this ring when she ran? You mean when she would jog and take runs?
A. When she would jog.
Q. What is the reason she would wear it instead of put it in her pockets?
A. She didn't have pockets. She was running. Nicole used to run nine miles. She was - she didn't have any pockets.
Q. I see. So Nicole would run nine miles a day in running clothing that did not have pockets?
A. Right.
Q. And as a result, she would wear her keys on this bear ring, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And had you seen this bear ring before?
A. Yes, I had.
Q. And this was the ring she was looking for?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. And what happened?
A. She - it wasn't there. The keys weren't there.
Q. Where she usually keeps it?
A. And the remote wasn't there. They were not in the drawer in the kitchen.
Q. What did she say to you when she could not find them there?
A. She said, Oh, my God. O.J. must have taken my keys last week when he was here. And I said, That's what I mean, Nicole. He has your keys. Please understand, he's been threatening you, he's threatening me. Please come with me. I am sure Kathy wouldn't mind if you stayed with her for, you know, a couple of days and then we could, you know, arrange to go someplace else. And she would not. So I left.
Q. When you left Nicole's condo at this time in early June and went to Kathy Harouche's and went back to Christian and so forth, did you ever talk to O.J. Simpson during that time frame, or did you see him at all?
A. No, I did not. When I was at Kathy Harouche's?
Q. Yes.
A. No, I did not. I wanted nothing to do with them.
Q. Before Nicole's death, do you remember the last time that you saw O.J. Simpson?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. And when was that?
A. It was one week prior to her death.
Q. Was this while you were staying at Nicole's?
A. It was while I was staying at Nicole's. It was on a Sunday.
Q. So the Sunday would be June 5?
A. June 5.
Q. And tell me about your encounter with O.J. Simpson on June 5, 1994.
A. O.J. called and said he was on his way to pick something up, he had Justin with him. He wanted something for Justin, I believe. And Nicole and he were in a fight so she wouldn't go downstairs to fix it, to give, you know - she didn't want to see O.J. because they had been fighting terribly that night and that morning, on the phone. So she asked me to go down and open the garage door and hand Justin, I think it was his running shoes or his ball and his running shoes. She asked me to do that. So I went down and I opened the garage door, pushed the button, and Kato, the dog, went bolting out of the garage door. So Justin - said hello to Justin, said hello to O.J., and I said I have to go get Nicole's dog, this is a very busy area, I didn't want him to get killed. So I started going after Kato and O.J. joined me running through, I would say, four or five blocks, chasing Kato. That's that time.
Q. Now, do you remember the car O.J. Simpson drove up in?
A.Yes, I do.
Q. Which was it?
A. The Bentley.
Q. And do you know where he pulled up?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Where was that?
A. In the back alley.
Q. He did not park in the front on Bundy?
A. Not at all.
Q. And do you know whether at any time during this visit, did O.J. Simpson enter the side alleyway to the condo?
A. No, he did not.
Q. Do you know what I am talking about, the alleyway?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. The front door of Nicole's house opens up into this alleyway, right?
A. Yes, it does.
Q. And you can either go back out towards the back gate or out towards the front gate, right?
A. Yes.
Q. It's kind of a long alleyway?
A. Yes.
Q. Now at any time during this visit did Mr. Simpson enter or go into that alleyway?
A. No, he did not.
Q. When he pulled up in the back, where did he park?
A. He maintained his position in the middle of the alley so he was in the middle of - his car was blocking, essentially, the alley.
Q. Was he parked perpendicular or parallel?
A. He was parked parallel to the alley.
Q. Now, Nicole had a garage there, right?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. What car did she park in that garage?
A. She parked the Ferrari in the garage.
Q. And Nicole had another car, right?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. What was that car?
A . That was a Jeep.
Q. Where did Nicole typically park the Jeep?
A. She left the Jeep parked directly behind the Ferrari outside of the garage door.
Q. On the driveway surface?
A. On the driveway surface.
Q. And when Mr. Simpson parked there on this occasion, did he park right next to -
A. No, he did not.
Q. Where did he park relative to the driveway and to the Jeep of Nicole Brown?
A. He pulled behind the Jeep.
Q. So parallel, again, to the garage?
A. Parallel to the garage.
Q. But close to the Jeep?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever have a conversation with O.J. Simpson about any tax problems involving Nicole?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. When - how many such conversations did you have?
A. One.
Q. When did it occur?
A. It occurred on the Friday, the Friday before, it was - right before he sent her the letter on Friday, he called me up and he said he had just finished drafting a letter, writing a letter to Nicole, his attorney was going to tell Nicole that he was going to inform the IRS that she had defrauded them.
Q. That Nicole had?
A. Yes.
Q. And this occurred generally around the same period of time you have been talking about, the last week in Nicole's life?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes.
Q . When is your best estimate of when you had this telephone conversation with O.J. Simpson about the IRS letter?
A. I would say it was right before the dog -
Q. Incident?
A. - incident. It was the Friday before the dog incident.
Q. Which might put it on June 3 or thereabouts?
A. Right.
Q. What did you say to Mr. Simpson when he told you that?
A. I said that she was not trying to defraud anyone. She had bought the condominium, thinking that she was going to move into Rockingham and she needed to - she needed to buy something so as not to pay capital gains. I tried to explain - I don't know why I did but I did. I tried to explain that what his - what he was doing was attacking his children now. I said that Nicole would not respond very well to that.
Q. Did O.J. Simpson say why he was doing this?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. In this telephone conversation with you?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. And tell us what O.J. Simpson said about why he was sending Nicole this letter about the IRS.
A. O.J. had said that he wanted to cause her as much pain as possible, that he wanted to make her live in reality so that she would see how lucky she had it, being with him, and that - that he wanted to teach her a lesson.
Q. Do you know whether O.J. Simpson ever sent that letter?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. How do you know that?
A. I was told by Nicole.
Q. In a telephone conversation or a personal conversation?
A. In a telephone conversation at first and then a personal conversation.
Q. What did Nicole say to you about the letter, and describe her state, whether she was calm, agitated, upset, angry, in so doing?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
Q. Let me make sure you understand. Let's talk about the telephone conversation. Did she tell you about the letter in the telephone conversation?
A. She briefly mentioned it.
Q. And then -
A. And then we talked in person.
Q. Now, when she told you about the letter in the telephone conversation, what was her state, so far as you could discern over the telephone?
A. She was angry, she was - she said that, if this is what he plans to do to get me back, he's wrong, that it - that she would - now he was attacking her children, that he had attacked her many times, but now he was putting her kids in jeopardy and she wanted nothing to do with him. She was devastated by the letter, devastated.
Q. And you talked with her in person about this as well?
A. Yes.
Q. And what, when you talked with her in person about the IRS letter, what was her state, so far as you could observe?
A. She was very angry and very - she was - that was it.
Q. And what did she say in this personal conversation when she was so angry?
A. I had just that.
Q. Basically the same thing as the telephone conversation?
A. This is the personal conversation that I had just recalled.
Q. I see. And it was in this personal conversation that Nicole was very angry, that she told you she was devastated?
A. Devastated.
Q. And that Mr. Simpson was attacking the children?
A. Yes.
Q. And did she explain what she meant by that?
A. She said that he was putting his children out on the streets.
Q. Because Nicole would have to sell the condominium?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. You have to -
A. She just - because Nicole would have to sell the condominium, because she had just moved the children again, that she just - she was - she just couldn't believe that he would do that to her children, to their children.
Q. And did Nicole describe to you in words or through her anger, how she felt about Mr. Simpson attacking the children?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Nicole - I don't think I had ever seen Nicole more angry. That was the one thing you did not do, was attack her children or do anything to her children. That was the last and final blow.
Q. Did - now, during this - well, let me back up. What was the last and final blow?
A. The fact that he was willing to put her children through another, to relocation, to maybe changing schools, and it all had an effect on Nicole, and her children.
Q. Did she indicate one way or the other what this letter would do in terms of her relationship with Mr. Simpson?
MR. LEONARD: Objection to the leading.
A. Nicole had made it quite clear that this letter had, was intended to get her back and that it only drove her away further, that she would never - she didn't even want to talk to him again after that.
Q. And do you know whether she did talk to him again after her receipt of that letter'?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, they did have conversations.
Q. Did you have any conversations with O.J. Simpson after Nicole's receipt of that letter?
A. No, I did not. Except when we chased the dog.
Q. Okay. After - did you have any conversations with Nicole after she received that letter where she described to you any conversations that she had with O.J. Simpson?
A. She just - yes.
Q. What things did she tell you about Mr. Simpson in those last conversations that you had with Nicole?
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Vague.
A. Nicole had said that she told O.J. that, the same thing she told me, that it was over, that he was now attacking her children, that he didn't care about her children, that he didn't care about her, that his plan would not work, that she was never coming back to him, that it was over. Leave her alone.
Q. Now, Nicole told you that, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And she told you that she told O.J. Simpson that, right?
A. Yes.
Q. When did Nicole tell you that?
A. Nicole had told me that a couple of times .
Q. During the time period from the receipt of the IRS letter until -
A. The end of her life.
Q. - the end of her life? Did you continue to have conversations with her while you were in Exodus?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Over the telephone?
A. And she came to visit me once at Exodus.
Q. She did?
A. Yes.
Q. When she visited you in Exodus, did she discuss Mr. Simpson at all?
A. Briefly.
Q. What did she say'?
A. She was looking for a house. She had put her house on the market to lease, that she was free of him, that she wasn't responding to him. As much as possible, she wouldn't talk to him. She was - we talked about our - we talked about going into - what kind of coffee house we were going to open. We talked about poetry readings, we talked about - we talked about positive things.
Q. Did you ever find out, prior to Nicole's death, whether O.J. Simpson found out that Nicole was seeing Marcus Allen again?
A. No, I do not know that.
Q. Did you ever discuss that with Nicole, whether O.J. knew about Marcus?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And what did Nicole tell you?
A. She - I asked Nicole if - I told her that she had been - we had been, she had been followed by O.J., and she knew. And that what if he had spotted them together. And she said she could not live her life for O.J. Simpson anymore and that she - you know, if he was going to kill her, to get it over with.
MR. PETROCELLI: We are going to break here.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:50, and this is the end of tape 3 of the deposition of Ms. Faye Resnick.
(Luncheon recess: 12:50 p.m.)
* * * * * * * * *
AFTERNOON SESSION (1:54 p.m.)
FAYE RESNICK, having been previously sworn, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good afternoon. The time is 1:54, and this is tape number 4 of the continued deposition of Faye Resnick.
CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. PETROCELLI:
Q. Ms. Resnick, earlier today we were talking about an incident in which O.J. Simpson acted in a rageful way at the Harley Davidson Cafe and I never did have you relate the entire incident. We got off on a different track. So why don't we go back to that, if that's okay. I think you said there was a time during the evening when Mr. Simpson was using cocaine at the table in the restaurant, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And when did you see Mr. Simpson go into a rage?
A. It wasn't until we got home to his condominium.
Q. In New York City?
A. In New York City. I think it was Bristol something. Nicole and he were not getting along in the car ride home from the hotel, due to the fact that O.J. had wanted to, had asked me if I would go and play backgammon with his friend Mark Packer after dinner that evening. I had said to him that I was not interested in going and playing backgammon with Mark, that I wanted to go home and go to sleep, and he kept bringing it up and it upset Nicole because she said that she didn't understand why he pretended to be Christian's friend one day and the very next day tried to set me up with one of his friends. So this was in the car on the way to the apartment. They started fighting. I really, I just said, look, you guys, it's over, it's done with, you know, let's just go to sleep. And they continued fighting. I went into my room. And Mark Packer called - as they were in the kitchen fighting, he called and interrupted them and O.J. answered the phone and he came knocking on my door - and you could hear everything. This condominium, the walls were really thin, I could hear everything that was being said.
I went out and I said to Mark that I wanted to go to sleep and that I had told him exactly that I did not have any intention of going and playing backgammon at his house. The - Nicole was really upset about it because O.J. had tried to - he said to me, why don't you go over there, you know, he's a nice guy, he's, you know, as wealthy as your ex-husband, and Christian doesn't make very much money, and dada, dada, da, da. And they got in a big fight over it, and they continued to fight and it got worse.
And Nicole was very upset with O.J. for doing that. She felt that he was just being O.J. and it just really made her mad and so the fight intensified and I saw O.J. with his animalistic ways and I said, look, I feel like I should - you know, this is getting out of hand, please calm down, you guys, and tried to calm the situation, and I knew that there was nothing I could do, and I said, I am going to go to sleep. I went into my room and until 4 o'clock in the morning I heard the two of them fighting. I heard - I was nervous that Nicole was going to be hurt and I didn't want to go to sleep because I wanted to be able to call the police, if necessary, and it was just one of those rageful, vindictive fights that O.J. turned on Nicole, said it was all her fault.
And they also fought that night about the Enquirer article that came out that weekend. O.J. said, you know, if it wasn't for Nicole, nobody would have found out about that, if she hadn't called 911 that the press wouldn't have got wind about it. And Nicole said, I'm sorry, it just appeared. I didn't give any interviews, it's not my fault the article was written. Well, they are bringing up all the beating and - and they were just - it was a night, it was one of those fright nights that I was too afraid for Nicole to even go to sleep until finally they calmed down.
Q. And you heard all of this?
A. I heard everything that was said.
Q. Was there an occasion when O.J. and Nicole had an argument about some man's number being in the speed dial and photographs of another man being in Nicole's home?
A. Yes.
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
Q. You may - is this something that you had a conversation with O.J. Simpson about?
A. Yes.
Q. When did that conversation occur?
A. It occurred on, in November sometime, I believe, in 1993.
Q. Who was present?
A. O.J. and I. He called me.
Q. Telephone call?
A. Telephone call. He called me at my office.
Q. Tell me about this November 1993 telephone call with O.J. Simpson.
A. O.J. called me to tell me that he had just been to Nicole's and that he saw - he was going through the photo albums, having a good time, and everything was going great and thumbing through one of the albums he saw a photograph of Keith Zlomsowich, and it really upset him that Nicole hadn't taken that picture out and it really upset him that one of his children was sitting on Keith's lap in the photograph, and that he went to use the phone and he saw Joseph Perrulli's name had not been taken off of the speed dial, and he saw the name Joseph. And he approached Nicole about it and he said, why didn't you take the photographs out of the book and she said, I just really haven't had time to, this was - I just hadn't thought about it.
Q. Are you telling us what O.J. had related to you?
A. Yes.
Q. Because I want to you stick with the conversation with O.J. Simpson.
A. I am.
Q. Thank you.
A. And he said that he had taken - I had asked him, actually, well, you know, have you taken all the photographs down of Paula, do you - you know, do you not have photographs of any of your ex-girlfriends? He said that was different, that, you know, his children were living at her house and that he would take them down or he told Nicole that he had or something like that. And I said, O.J., I think you are making a bigger deal out of this; all you have to do is just nicely and calmly ask Nicole to - tell her it hurts your feelings and see if she will, you know, take them out of the book and I am sure she will take Joseph's name off speed dial and I just - I am sure it's just an oversight. And that was the - so he seemed to think, you know, okay, all right. So we hung up and he called back and he said, she's upset, she says I'm controlling her life that I have to take all of her ex's photographs out of the book. And that was the last time I spoke with him about it that day. I talked with Nicole about it.
Q. Did you have further conversations with O.J. Simpson about this?
A. The next day, I did.
Q. Tell us about that conversation.
A. I had found out that that night he had broken the door down and -
Q. The door to what?
A. Nicole's house.
Q. At -
A. Gretna Green.
Q. Continue.
A. And I asked him why he had done that, and he just made it sound like it was all Nicole's fault, that she wasn't - that she was fighting with him about the fact that she had to - she couldn't have a life previous to being with him again. She didn't like the fact that she had to, you know, take all of the photographs. That was her big issue. She felt, you know, Keith was her friend, you know, most importantly, and to throw away his picture was unrealistic of him and unreasonable. And she wouldn't - he wouldn't get what he wanted and he just said, She wouldn't do what I wanted. And I said, So, that's the reason you beat in the door? And he said, No, that's not. She wouldn't talk to me and she wouldn't take my phone calls. And I said -
Q. Is that something that would infuriate O.J. Simpson, if Nicole didn't take his phone calls?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Oh -
Q. Do you know if that was something that would make him upset?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. That is something that -
MR. PETROCELLI: Excuse me, can I finish my question before -
MR. LEONARD: As long as the witness hesitates a little bit so I can get my objection in.
MR. PETROCELLI: Sure. I just want to get my question out, okay, before you interrupt me.
Q. Do you have any knowledge of whether, of O.J. Simpson's reaction if Nicole did not accept his phone calls?
MR. LEONARD Objection.
Q. You may answer.
A.Yes, I do.
Q. And is that based - what is that based on?
A. It's based on my experience with him on the telephone when he would say, when she would not accept his phone calls, that's when he would call me and go crazy with me because he didn't get the satisfaction that he wanted from her and he felt that she was tuning him out and he would just be - that's when he started the endless phone calls to me.
Q. And what emotional state do you believe O.J. Simpson would communicate to you when Nicole would not take his phone calls?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Well -
Q. What kinds of emotions would he communicate to you?
A. Hostility, anger - just aggressiveness.
Q. Going back to this early November or late October incident, I guess it was the day after the Gretna Green incident?
A. Yes.
Q. And O.J. Simpson and you are talking and he is telling you that Nicole would not, the night before, would not take his calls or would not talk to him, right?
A. Right.
Q. And you were explaining that that's what he was telling you as to why this incident occurred ?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Was there anything more that he said to you in that conversation?
A. Not that I recall, of importance.
Q. Did he mention to you that Nicole had called the police and the police came out to the house?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. No, he did not. I mentioned it to him.
Q. Do you know how many times that police had come out to the house -
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
Q. - involving -
MR. PETROCELLI: I am not finished with my question.
MR. LEONARD: I am sorry.
Q. Do you know how many times the police had come out to the Simpsons' residence, wherever that might be, to deal with a domestic dispute?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Nicole had told me she had called 911 around 30 times.
Q. That's what Nicole said to you?
MR. BREWER: How many times?
THE WITNESS: 30.
Q. Did she say how many times police had actually come out to the house?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. No, she did not.
Q. Did you see O.J. Simpson at the Jenners' Christmas party in December of 1993?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Can you explain the occasion when you saw him there?
A. We were entering my - [name deleted], my daughter, Christian Reichardt, my ex-fiance and - we were entering the Jenners' home, and as we were entering, I saw Kato Kaelin come out of the door and then I saw the children follow him and then Nicole and then O.J. in one of his moods, and I said, what's going on? And O.J. said - and Nicole was very - she wasn't talking, she was just - she wasn't. He said Joseph Perrulli had shown up at the Christmas party and ruined everything and that he felt he was set up and he felt that Nicole had known about it and he was upset at Kris Jenner for inviting him and he didn't want to do anything strange, so he was - he was just going to get out of there.
Q . That's what he said to you?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Can you recall anything else?
A. I asked Nicole if she was okay, and she said, I'll calm him down.
Q. Can you describe O.J. Simpson's emotional state when he was talking to you on that occasion?
A. He was more composed than he had been in the other times that I described, much more composed. He was - he was quite upset but he wasn't, you know, his face looked the same.
Q. He wasn't out of control?
A. He wasn't as out of control as I have seen him.
Q. Did you know Ron Goldman?
A. I had met Ron Goldman a couple of times.
Q. When did you first meet Mr. Goldman?
A. I met him with Nicole. It was - she was coming back from - I was meeting Nicole for lunch at Starbucks. I was just coming back from my office and she was sitting there with - we were going to go to Rosti's but we met at Toscana and she was sitting there with Ron Goldman and a couple of his friends. That was the first time I had met him.
Q. Did she introduce you to Ron?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. And did you stay there for the lunch?
A. No. We only stayed there to have - I was just going to pick her up there because she had been running or something and I was picking her up.
Q. So when you arrived there, you were introduced to Ron and then you and Nicole shortly left? Is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Is that the first time you had ever even heard of Ron Goldman is when Nicole introduced him to you?
A. Yes.
Q. And when is the next time that you saw or spoke to Ron Goldman?
A. We were sitting at Starbucks and Ron was - all of the tables were typically taken . We used to sit on the very low wall in front. And there wasn't a lot of seats and Ron was sitting - Nicole was on the wall, sitting on the wall, and I was sitting on the wall, and O.J. was - excuse me, Ron was sitting down with a couple of friends, his gym friends, and O.J. came and got out of the car.
Q. He pulled up in his car?
A. He pulled up in the Bentley.
Q. He parked the car?
A. Parked the car.
Q. And got out, and did what?
A. He just said to him, This is my wife, you know, I want to talk to you, Nicole. And she went over to the car and talked to him.
Q. No introductions, just came out and said what you just testified to?
A. To my best recollection, yeah.
Q. Was he upset?
A. He seemed upset. And I - you know, we just did - O.J. used to get upset whenever Nicole was around any guys, so it was normal to us.
Q. In your experience with O.J. Simpson, would you describe him as not a jealous person or a jealous person?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
Q. How would you describe him in terms of his attitude towards Nicole?
A. I would describe O.J. as an extremely jealous person. I would describe him as - I don't know what he is like with other women, but with Nicole, he was very obsessed and very jealous of her.
Q. Was he possessive?
A. Highly.
Q. Was he controlling?
A. Yes.
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, he was.
Q. On this occasion when O.J. Simpson came up to you, Nicole, and Ron and some of Ron's friends and he said, this is my wife, what did you say?
A. He addressed the people there, This is my wife and he said, I want to talk to her.
Q. And did Nicole go off and talk?
A. Nicole went off and talked.
Q. Did you hear what they were saying?
A. No.
Q. Did Nicole come back?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Did she say what had just happened with O.J.?
A. Yes, she did. She just said, he thinks I must be doing one of these guys. Just typical O.J., and she ignored it. It was not a big deal at all. She was used to it.
Q. Is that the last time you ever saw Ron Goldman?
A. No. There was one other time. Right before the weekend I was staying with Nic we all went dancing one night at Roxbury and Ron was there with his friend Mike and - no, that was his friend Doug, I think his name was. I had only met them once before, once or twice before, so I didn't really-
Q. And you were there?
A. Uh-huh.
Q. And Nicole was there? A. Yes, and they were there at the same time. It just - I guess they had asked -
Q. You were not there together?
A. No.
Q. Was Nicole with Ron, were they together that night?
A. No. To my knowledge, she was never with Ron physically.
Q. What you are saying is that to your knowledge, Nicole never had a romantic involvement with Ron Goldman?
A. To my knowledge, not at all.
Q. They were just friends?
A. Yes.
Q. What's the time frame when you saw Ron Goldman at Starbucks and when you saw him at this dance club? I think you just told me the dance club time frame. What about when you saw Ron at Starbucks?
A. This is after we came back from Mexico.
Q. So sometime in May 1994?
A. Mm-hmm, early May.
Q. Did you and Nicole ever have a conversation about whether Nicole would take a long yacht trip with O.J. Simpson?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Yes.
Q. Excuse me?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Did you ever discuss that subject with O.J. Simpson?
A. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Q. Tell me about your conversation with O.J. Simpson on that subject. First tell us when you think it occurred, to the best of your recollection.
A. In Cabo San Lucas, when he first arrived, O.J. had mentioned that he was thinking about surprising Nicole for her birthday and renting a yacht to take all, Nicole and myself and Ron and Cora and Cici and, you know, for a trip for Nicole's birthday.
Q. This is Cabo 1994, April, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And it would be the birthday of Nicole in May of 1994, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Please continue
A. And I thought it sounded great and I wanted, you know, to - this was when they were getting along real well and I thought they were going to get married again, and I asked Nicole about it and she said, yeah, it sounds great, interesting, and he had planned a trip on another yacht they had taken together. And when we discussed it later, she said, Absolutely no way am I going to go on a yacht with O.J. you know, I can't get away from him if he starts getting crazy, so she put the kabosh on the trip and told him that she wouldn't be going. Q. Did you and O.J. ever discuss Nicole's refusal to go on this yacht trip with him?
A. I don't recall having any great conversation over it that sticks out in my mind.
Q. During the Northridge earthquake in January 1994, you were living where?
A. I was living in Brentwood with Christian Reichardt.
Q. And Nicole was living where?
A. In Brentwood, on Bundy.
Q. And you felt the earthquake?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Very severely?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Do you know if Nicole did?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. Now, she was at the Bundy condo with the children, Justin and Sydney, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Was O.J. Simpson there?
A. No, he wasn't - no, pardon me. She was not with Justin and Sydney. Justin and Sydney had spent that weekend with Nicole's parents, so she was in the condo by herself.
Q. I see. This is January 17, 1994?
A. Yes.
Q. And was O.J. Simpson in town?
A. No. He was in Atlanta.
Q. Do you know whether he came back immediately after the earthquake?
MR. LEONARD: Objection. A. No. No, he did not. Nicole - he did not come back, he actually - no, he did not come back.
Q. Did you ever discuss with Nicole why O.J. did not come back after the earthquake?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Yes.
Q. What did Nicole say about O.J.'s not coming back after the earthquake?
A. She felt he was - she didn't feel protected by him. She felt that that was a very horrific time for all of us and that she was - she just felt that he should be back with his family.
Q. And to your knowledge, he did not come back?
A. No, he did not come back. She joined him in Atlanta, actually.
Q. How long afterwards?
A. A week or so after.
Q. That was for the Super Bowl ?
A. Yes, for the Super Bowl.
Q. So that would have been in late January?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know anything about an expensive bracelet that Nicole received from O.J. Simpson in the middle of May 1994?
A. Yes, I do.
MR. LEONARD: Object to the form.
Q. What do you know about that bracelet and Nicole's receipt of it?
A. That was Nicole's birthday present.
Q. From whom?
A. From O.J.
Q. Do you know, did Nicole tell you that?
A. Yes.
Q. Was this a time when Nicole had already told O.J. they had split up, right?
A. Yes.
Q. Had they reconciled again?
A. No, they hadn't. O.J. had been coming over. This was during the time where he had - Nicole had double pneumonia and she was bedridden for a while and he was - and Nicole had said that she was too weak to fight with him about the split-up, that she didn't have the energy and that he was, you know, sending her flowers, sending her soup and breakfast. He was being - he was really being the charming O.J. and taking care of her, and she had - she had said to me that she made it clear to him that she was just weak and I - and she said that she didn't believe that he - she thought he was coming back into her life. She thought he thought she was coming back into her life.
Q. Did you ever find out what Nicole did with that bracelet?
A. Yes.
Q. What did she do?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Nicole told O.J., not only the bracelet, but she also gave him the diamond earrings that he had given her for Christmas, to take them, she couldn't be bought, she didn't want him - to take them back, she didn't want them, that she wanted him to leave her alone, that - she gave the bracelet back to him and she gave the diamond earrings back to him shortly after he had given them to her because he was now coming on a daily basis and it was as if she - he felt she owed it to him to be with her.
Q. Did you ever talk to O.J. Simpson about his giving that bracelet or Nicole's returning of that bracelet to him?
A. No, he did not.
Q. Now, you had a number of telephone conversations with O.J. Simpson in May of 1994 about Nicole's decision to end the relationship?
A. Mm-hmm. Yes, I did.
Q. Did O.J. Simpson express to you at any time his willingness to accept that decision?
A. Accept -
Q. Nicole's decision to end the relationship.
A. No, he never did.
Q. Did he indicate to you an unwillingness to accept the decision?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. What did he say to you to indicate that unwillingness?
A. He said that she was obviously overwhelmed by him and that, you know, she - he just felt, he just said she was going to, you know, come back to him.
Q. He told you he wanted her to come back?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes.
Q. What did he tell you, Ms. Resnick, in these telephone conversations about whether or not -
MR. MARKS: May I just say, you already asked many questions about this whole area and you have many responses from the witness. I think repeating the same, you know, questions, I don't know that that's appropriate.
MR. PETROCELLI: I certainly don't intend to do that. I just have a question or two.
MR. LEONARD: Is there a question?
MR. PETROCELLI: I am going to ask a new question.
MR. LEONARD: Okay.
Q. In your telephone conversations with Mr. Simpson in May of 1994, did he tell you that he wanted to stay in a relationship with Nicole?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Yes, he did. Many times.
Q. Now, you spoke to Nicole on June 12th by telephone; is that right?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Before that conversation, had you had any conversations with Nicole about the recital for Sydney?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And in those conversations, was there any discussion about whether O.J. Simpson would be attending the recital?
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Vague and leading.
A. Yes, there was.
Q. When did these conversations occur?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. 9 o'clock the night - the night she was killed.
Q. Before the 9 o'clock conversation on June 12th, the night she was killed, did you speak to Nicole at all about whether O.J. Simpson would be going to the recital?
A. Not that day, I did not have a chance to talk to her.
Q. What about the day before or any days before?
A. No. She - I knew the recital was - you know, we talked about the recital. She said that he would probably be in town. It wasn't a big conversation.
Q. Okay. And who called whom on June 12 at around 9 o'clock p.m.?
A. I called Nicole. I returned her phone calls.
Q. Did you call Nicole because you thought that's when she might be home from the recital?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you know that she had also gone out to dinner after the recital?
A. Yes, I did.
MR. LEONARD: Objection. Leading.
Q. How did you know that?
A. Because she had told me that her family was in town, when she came to visit me, her family was coming into town and it was going to be a weekend of family and that they were going to dinner after the recital and we talked about what Sydney was going to wear at the recital and we talked about, you know, the fact that - she briefly mentioned that she didn't want to see O.J. there, but he probably would be. And, you know, we had talked about that when she - when I saw her.
Q. Now turning to the 9 o'clock phone call, tell me what you and Nicole discussed at the 9 o'clock phone call on the evening of June 12th.
A. I asked her how the recital went and she said it was great. She focused on the kids the most, and the recital, the conversation regarding the recital. I asked her if she - if O.J. showed up and she said she did - he did. I asked her how she, what did she say to him and she said she told him to leave her alone, that he was not welcome in her family any longer, that he was not welcome to join them for dinner. She said he was in a deep, dark mood and she said that he had been trying to get a hold of her and she wasn't returning his phone calls, or that she wasn't talking to him. And she was - the rest of the conversation was just brilliant. She was just the happiest girl I had ever talked to. She was free. She said she was free. And she was. She was free of him for a very short period of time.
Q. When did Nicole -
MR. PETROCELLI. Withdrawn.
Q. Nicole told you, as you have just said, that O.J. Simpson had been trying to call her but she would not take his calls or return his calls?
A. She said she didn't want to talk to him and she wasn't taking his calls. She wasn't having conversations with him.
Q. Did she tell you that O.J. Simpson was calling her that evening?
A. He had been trying to call. He had been calling.
Q. Did Nicole say how many times he had called on the evening of June 12th?
A. No, she did not.
Q. Was that the last time you spoke to Nicole?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you attend Nicole's funeral?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you see O.J. Simpson there?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did he say anything to you?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. What did he say?
A. I asked him what happened and he said that, out of everyone, that I should know that he loved her too much.
Q. And you had known Nicole Simpson or Nicole Brown Simpson since July 1992 in -
MR. MARKS: May we take a break at this point for about five minutes?
MR. PETROCELLI: Okay. I am almost finished.
MR. MARKS: I understand, for five minutes, we are going to take a break.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 2:33 and we are going off the record.
(Recess taken.)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 2:54 and we are on the record.
BY MR. PETROCELLI:
Q. Did you and Nicole Brown ever discuss opening up a coffee shop?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. In what time frame did you have these discussions?
A. We had started talking about that in the last two or three months of her life.
Q. Did the discussions get serious?
A. Yes, they did.
Q. Did you and Nicole prepare a business plan?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. Did anyone assist you with the plan?
A. No.
Q. Did you or Nicole consult anyone regarding the opening of the coffee shop?
A. Nicole had checked into Starbucks, we were thinking about opening a franchise. She found out that they didn't sell franchises. Then we were looking for locations sometimes to see different places to open, to just open our own coffee - we were going to have like a java-poetry bar with coffee and teas and such.
Q. Did you and Nicole discuss how much money it would cost to open up the coffee shop?
A. Yes. We thought that we could each put $40,000 into it.
Q. Do you know whether Nicole had that money?
A. She said she did.
Q. Did you have that money?
A. Yes, I did. And also my ex-husband was willing to finance any monies that I needed.
Q. Who was that?
A. Paul Resnick.
Q. You have told us that your relationship with Nicole began in July of 1992?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were extremely close friends with her until she died in June of 1994?
A. Yes.
Q. In July of 1992, did you have a problem with drug abuse?
A. No, I did not.
Q. Were you sober in July of 1992?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Were you sober from July of 1992 through the end of 1992?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Were you sober for the first six months of 1993?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Were you sober for the last six months of 1993?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Were you sober in January of 1994?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. In February of 1994?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. In March of 1994?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. In April of 1994?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Were you sober for the first two weeks of May of 1994?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Were you sober for the second two weeks of May 1994?
A. I had relapsed the latter part of May 1994.
Q. About the last week or so'?
A. Yes.
Q. And that relapse continued until June 9, when you went into the Exodus treatment center?
A. No. June 8th.
Q. June 8, 1994?
A. Yes.
Q. So it was only during the last couple of weeks of Nicole's life that you had a problem with this relapse?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, when you say you relapsed during the last couple of weeks of Nicole's life, what do you mean by that?
A. That means that I had - what do I mean by "relapsed"?
Q. Yes.
A. That means that I had gone into treatment in 1992 and due to a very stressful time in my life, at that time my father had died - excuse me, my sister had died, my father had gone into a coma for eight months, and I was going through a divorce, and I relapsed in 1992, went into treatment.
Q. When was that in 1992?
A. I believe the date was February 20th. And from 1992 until - from February 20th until 1990 - until the late part of May 1994, I was sober, off of cocaine.
Q. And sober from any other drug use, correct?
A. Yes. Although I had taken medication for my operation, for my operation. But that was prescribed. And I was socially drinking. But that was - that's not drugs.
Q. Were you abusing alcohol from July of 1992 until the time Nicole died?
A. I was never an alcohol abuser. I was a social drinker.
Q. What kind of - when you relapsed in the end of May, early June 1994, what drug did you start using?
A. I started using - I had taken some Valium to calm my nerves. Around May 3rd or 4th, I had taken two Valiums, I believe. And then the last week in May, I relapsed on cocaine.
Q. What quantity of cocaine were you taking when you relapsed in June of 1994?
A. I used to do $20 a day when I would do cocaine.
Q. What kind, what quantity of cocaine did $20 buy?
A. A quarter of a gram.
Q. What was the total dollar amount of cocaine that you used during this relapse in June 1994, until you went into the treatment center?
A. I think, at most, $200.
Q. Did you pay for the cocaine?
A. Yes, l did.
Q. Where did you obtain this $200 worth of cocaine over the period of a week or two?
A. From my friend.
Q. What is the name of that friend?
A. His name - the name I had given to Christopher Darden a long time ago, [Name Deleted].
MR. LEONARD: I didn't hear the last name.
Q. How do you spell that? What is his last name?
A. [Name Deleted]..
Q. [Name Deleted]., something like that?
A. I believe so.
Q. What was [Name Deleted].'s occupation, if you know, at the time you purchased these small quantities of cocaine from him?
A. He was a real estate investor and a real estate man, I guess. He had been a friend of mine for quite a while.
Q. Did - and you said you gave his name to Christopher Darden?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And that's in the course of your discussing the facts and circumstances of this case with the Los Angeles prosecutor's office?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know if [Name Deleted] is a Colombian drug dealer?
A. [Name Deleted]. is a friend of mine. He is a businessman. He is a normal person who - no, he is not Colombian. I don't even know if he is a drug dealer.
Q. Do you know if he has ties to Colombian drug dealers?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
Q. Do you know if he has any?
A. I - I know he has - no, I am sure he doesn't.
Q. Do you know if he has ties to organized crime?
A. I wouldn't think so. I - I didn't, I never discussed things like that with him. He's a businessman, a nice man, and a friend of mine. I never thought to ask a question like that. That would be - I don't think in those terms. I don't ask questions in those terms, of that nature.
Q. There was an intervention of your family and friends?
A. No. Not of my family. Only of my friends.
Q. Where was that intervention?
A. It was at my ex-fiance's home, in Brentwood.
Q. Christian Reichardt?
A. Yes.
Q. Who attended?
A. Christian Reichardt, Kathy Harouche, Bruce and Kris Jenner, my ex-husband Paul Resnick, and Nicole.
Q. Was there a leader at this intervention?
A. Nicole had called for the intervention.
Q. Do you know why Nicole had called for the intervention?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Why?
A. Because I had told Nicole that I had had a problem in the past, before I had met her, when I had went to Betty Ford and that when times get stressful for me, I am not really good at handling stressful situations, and that if she had ever seen me lapse back and start using cocaine, that she was to call my husband and make sure that that didn't go any further than necessary.
Q. Why was Nicole the leader of the session, this intervention session?
MR. LEONARD: Objection.
A. Nicole was the only one that knew that I was doing drugs. Nicole was the only one that - Nicole felt that - why was she the leader? Excuse me.
Q . Nicole was your best friend at the time, right?
MR. LEONARD: Objection, leading.
A. Yes, she was my best friend.
Q. Was she your best friend?
A. Yes, indeed, she was my best friend.
Q. At the time of the intervention?
A. Yes. At the time of the intervention.
Q. Did Nicole ever discuss with you whether Sydney or Justin ever said anything to her about abuse by O.J. Simpson?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
A. Yes, she did.
Q. What did Nicole say to you about that? Let me sharpen my question a little bit. In the months of May and June of 1994, obviously before Nicole's death, did Nicole ever discuss with you her children's reaction to the issue of abuse?
MR. LEONARD: Objection to the leading.
A. No, she did not.
Q. Did you discuss it at an earlier time frame?
A. Yes, she did.
Q. When?
A. Actually, I had the discussion with - I witnessed the discussion that Sydney had with her mother.
Q. Where was that discussion?
A. It was on Gretna Green and it was -
Q. When did it take place?
A. It was right before Nicole had - right before we had gone to - May, Nicole had told Sydney we were going to Mexico and her daddy would probably join us, and Sydney was unclear as to why O.J. was starting to come around again.
Q. So this would be in May of 1993?
A. Yes.
Q. When the reconciliation began?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were present during this conversation between Nicole and Sydney?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Can you continue to relate that conversation, please.
A. Sydney had said that Nicole - Sydney had said that she didn't - she actually begged her mommy not to do it. Her words were, mommy, please, I don't want all the fighting to start again. And that was the conversation that I had.
Q. Do you know whether either Justin or Sydney ever saw any physical abuse by O.J. Simpson against Nicole?
MR. LEONARD: Object. Leading. Vague.
Q. The question is do you know.
A. Do I know and -
Q. And then I will ask you how you know.
A. Not firsthand knowledge.
Q. Did you have secondhand knowledge of that?
A. That Sydney was very aware because that her room was next to theirs. She had heard a lot of the beatings and Nicole had once alluded to the fact that Sydney had witnessed -
Q. Witnessed what?
A. - something that she shouldn't have seen.
Q. Some act of abuse?
MR. LEONARD: Objection to the leading.
A. That's how I took it.
Q. Some what?
A. Something she shouldn't have witnessed.
Q. From the sense of the conversation, how did you take it?
A. I took it -
MR. LEONARD Objection.
A. I took it as to that Sydney had witnessed some of the abuse.
Q. And when did -
MR. MARKS: Can we just be clear on whether there was, that Ms. Resnick was told there had been physical abuse? I want to be clear on this.
MR. PETROCELLI: I was just going to ask that question, Mr. Marks.
Q. What you just related to us is what Nicole told you?
A. Let me make it very clear.
Q. Please.
A. When Nicole had told me about the abuse, she also said that Sydney had overheard a lot of the fightings, a lot of the beatings, and she had at that time mentioned to me that she was afraid that Sydney had seen some of the abuse and -
Q. And this was at the Palmilla restaurant in Cabo, in April of 1994?
A. Yes. And I did not question her further on that.
Q. But in an earlier time, in May of 1993, at Gretna Green, you were present with Sydney, Nicole -
A. When Sydney made the statement.
Q. That - when Sydney said, mommy, don't go back with daddy?
MR. LEONARD: Object to the leading.
Q. What did Sydney say? Tell us again.
A. Sydney said, Mommy, please, don't. I don't want daddy and you - I don't want all of the fighting to begin. She was opposed to the reconciliation, absolutely.
MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you very much.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
MR. MARKS: May Mr. Daniel Leonard take his examination?
MR. PETROCELLI: I don't know about Mr. Brewer.
MR. BREWER: I have some questions, I probably have a half hour or an hour. In light of your representation it's going to take you a day, let's get you started.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: May we go off the record to readjust the microphones, please? The time is 3:14 and we are going off the record.
(Recess taken.)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 3:20 and we are back on the record.
BY MR. PETROCELLI:
Q. Ms. Resnick, I have an additional question I neglected to ask you earlier. Why did you resume taking cocaine in late May or early June of l994?
A. At that time it was a horrific time in my life. I was nervous for Nicole's well-being, due to the threats that were made by O.J. I was nervous for myself because O.J. had told me that I had betrayed him by not telling him that Nicole was planning on leaving him. I was also, at that time, I had just broken my engagement with Christian Reichardt, due to some financial difficulties that he had put me in, amongst other reasons. I had been working for Christian for a year and he was to pay me $2,000 a month, which he did not. The entire year, he paid me $2,500. I had loaned him $20,000 in the month of March that he and his friend were to pay me back, that he said he could not and it was very stressful for me in every way at that time.
MR. PETROCELLI: Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY MR. LEONARD:
Q. Good afternoon, Ms. Resnick.
A. Good afternoon.
Q. If you have any problem understanding my questions, please let me know and if you need to break at any time, just let us know and we will accommodate you.
A. Thank you.
Q. You were having severe financial difficulties in May of 1994?
A. I wouldn't call them severe.
Q. How would you characterize them?
A. I was used to living a very wealthy life for most of my life, and I no longer had the capabilities of continuing that.
Q. Would you say you were broke at that time in, let's say, June of 1994?
A. I would say, in comparison to my life -
MR. MARKS: Well, I think, I would like your question to be whether she had any money at the time or something like that or - I don't like the term. You should ask her what her finances were or something like that.
MR. LEONARD: What is your objection?
MR. MARKS: Objection to the phrase, not to the -
Q. Would you say that you were broke in June of 1994?
A. I would say that, to my estimation of living, you could say that.
Q. You thought you were broke, right?
MR. MARKS: How about asking her what money she had at the time, instead of just asking for some kind of general description. You can ask her about whether she had any losses. I mean -
MR. LEONARD: Is that an objection?
MR. MARKS: I want the question to be clear about what her finances were. I have no problem with that.
Q. Did you have any difficulty understanding my question?
A. To answer your question, I had money in the - I had money. I was - certainly didn't have what I used to have.
Q. So you wouldn't have characterized yourself as being broke in 1994, is that correct, in June of 1994?
A. I believe I characterized myself as not having the monies that I used to have in the past and broke, to me, might be different than broke to someone else.
Q. Did you represent to anyone in 1994, in June, that you were broke?
A. I could have.
Q. Who would that have been?
A. I couldn't say. I don't know where the question's coming from.
Q. But it's possible that you could have told someone in June of 1994 that you were broke?
A. It's possible.
Q. Were you having, at that time, multiple financial setbacks?
MR. PETROCELLI: June '94?
Q. Let's say May and June of '94.
A. Multiple financial setbacks?
MR. MARKS: Can you talk about specifics?
MR. LEONARD: I think it would be helpful if you object -
MR. MARKS: My objection is only to the phrase that you are using, multiple financial setbacks. If you want to ask something specific about what was going on in her financial life, I have no objection.
Q. Can you answer the question?
A. I don't really know how to answer that question. I would also like for you to be a little more specific, if you could.
Q. Did you have anything that you would characterize as a financial setback in June or May of 1994?
A. I don't know what you are referring to.
Q. You mentioned earlier something about a $20,000 loan -
A. Yes.
Q. - to Christian?
A. Yes.
Q. That was actually a loan for a woman friend of Christian's; is that right?
A. That's what I was told.
Q. Did you know the woman?
A. Yes. It was a friend of Christian's.
Q. Did you speak to this woman about why she needed the money?
A. I spoke essentially with Christian about it since it was Christian's friend. Christian asked me to loan his friend and he this money, Christian guaranteeing the loan. But this was in March.
Q. And was that something that was bothering you in May of 1994, the fact that you had loaned this money?
A. It certainly did bother me.
Q. And why was that?
A. Because they didn't pay me back.
Q. You also mentioned that Christian was supposed to pay you $2,000 a month?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. And he never paid you that amount?
A. He paid me $2,500 altogether for the year.
Q. Anything else, let's say, in March, April, May or June of 1994, in the financial realm, that was causing you a problem?
A. Not - no.
Q. Okay. Just those two items that you have talked about?
A. That's all I can think of.
Q. What happened in the exact - tell me exactly what happened with regard to the $20,000. When did you learn that there was going to be a problem with that?
A. Christian had promised me that this woman would pay me back within one month. I had learned of that when she didn't pay me, one month later.
Q. And what kind of effect was this having on you on, let's say, your day-to-day life at this time, your ability to pay for things, the fact that you didn't get the $20,000 back? Was that affecting you?
A. My life continued. My credit rating was perfect. I had money in my savings. It's something that I certainly anticipated was, added stress to my life, but my life continued.
Q. Were you feeling insecure about your finances in June of 1994?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. I want to go back through briefly some of the areas you discussed with Mr. Petrocelli. You talked about a conversation that you overheard that Sydney had with Nicole, and you said that was in May of 1993?
A. It was before leaving to - yes, it was in May of '93.
Q. Where did that discussion take place?
A. In Gretna Green, in the den.
Q. Other than Nicole - well, was Nicole there? Obviously, she was there. She was talking to Sydney, right?
A. Yes, she was.
Q. Okay. Other than Nicole and Sydney, was anyone else present for that?
A. Not that I can remember.
Q. Do you remember what time of day it was?
A. No, I don't.
Q. Do you remember how long - it was before you went to Cabo?
A Yes, it was.
Q. How long before?
A. Oh, within a couple of weeks.
Q. Do you remember the dates that you went to Cabo that year?
A. We were there over Mother's Day.
Q. With regard to the intervention, was there any discussion at the intervention of the amount of drugs that you were doing? Did that come up at all?
A. No, it did not.
Q. It wasn't mentioned at all?
A. Not that I can remember.
Q. Was there any discussion at the intervention that you recall about whether you were free-basing cocaine?
A. Yes, there was.
Q. Tell me what you remember about that discussion.
A. They asked me if I had been.
Q. And what did you reply?
A. I denied it.
Q. Was that true?
A. It was not true.
Q. You had been free-basing?
A. I had free-based for - I had relapsed and I admitted it, eventually.
Q. You had free-based at the Bundy townhouse at some point?
A. Once or twice.
Q. And you free-based before, shortly before you went on a trip to Cabo? Is that right?
A. No. That is not true.
MR. PETROCELLI: What time frame, Mr. Leonard?
Q. When - how many trips to Cabo did you take in April and May of '94?
A. Two trips.
Q. You went the very early part of April, correct, and then you went again at the very early part of May?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you remember the dates of the second trip?
A. I believe it was the 20 - it was the last, it was the last part.
Q. It was the weekend before you went to stay with Nicole, correct?
A. Close to that time, yes, I believe so.
Q. You went to stay with Nicole, you said, on the 2nd or 3rd of June?
A. Yes.
Q. So it was that weekend before?
A. Yes. Around that time.
Q. Excuse me?
A. Around that time.
Q. Well, do you recall going on a weekend in May to Cabo?
A. I do believe I already said I did.
Q. And it was that weekend, that last weekend in May, before you went to Nicole's, that you went to Cabo?
A. I'm not quite sure if it was that weekend before, or the weekend before that. We didn't make reservations, we went on a private jet of my friends.
Q. Who were your friends?
A. The Harouches.
Q. Who else went on that trip?
A. Christian Reichardt. That's when I broke up with him.
Q. When did you start - when was the first time you free-based cocaine in May or June of 1994?
A. The very last weekend of May.
Q. Do you recall where you were when you did that?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Where were you?
A. I was in my home.
Q. Was anyone else present?
A. No, they were not.
Q. When was the next time you free-based cocaine in either May or June?
A. It was, I believe, the day after. Not the following day. The day after.
Q. Again, this is the last weekend in May, you said?
A. Yes.
Q. How are you so sure about the date on that?
MR. PETROCELLI: The question is argumentative.
Q . You know for sure that it was the last weekend in May?
A. I know exactly that I relapsed for two weeks.
Q. And you are sure that you free-based on that last weekend in May?
A. To my knowledge, to the best of my knowledge. That's my recall of it.
Q. And on both occasions, you were at your house?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. And by yourself?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Did you see Nicole that weekend?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. The weekend that you were free-basing.
A. I believe so.
Q. Do you recall where you saw her?
A. I am not quite sure as to - as exactly, that weekend, where Nicole was.
Q. You had savings, did you say, in 1994?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. How much did you have in your savings?
MR. PETROCELLI: Vague as to time.
Q. Let's say in June of 1994.
A. I had $20,000. And I also had money with my sister.
Q. And your sister's name?
A. Patricia Elizabeth Hutchison.
MR. PETROCELLI: What was the first name?
THE WITNESS: Patricia.
Q. The incident at the funeral where you say O.J. said to you, out of everyone, she should know that I loved her too much -
A. No, that is not -
MR. PETROCELLI: No, that is not what the witness said. Mischaracterizes her testimony.
Q. Okay. Just tell me what he said.
A. "Out of everyone, you know that l loved her too much."
Q. Okay. And that occurred at the funeral?
A. Yes. At the gravesite.
Q. Who was present when O.J. said that?
A. I was.
Q. You were alone?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was O.J.?
A. Sitting across from Nicole's coffin.
Q. And where you were in relation to him when he said this?
A. Sitting right next to him across from the closed coffin.
Q. What did you do immediately after O.J. said this to you?
A. I left.
Q. You left the area? Where did you go?
A. I went and I had a cigarette.
Q. You did nothing in between?
A. I could have.
Q. You don't - you don't recall doing anything in between?
A. I don't recall anything of importance.
Q. The telephone call at 9 o'clock on the 12th of June, where did you make that call from?
A. I made that call from a phone booth in Exodus Recovery Center.
Q. It was a phone booth?
A. Yes, it was. Q. Do you remember which one it was or where it was in relation to your room?
A. I believe it was the middle phone. There was three phones; I believe it was the middle one.
Q. How long did that telephone conversation last?
A. Approximately 30 minutes, I would think.
Q. With regard to O.J. Simpson, Nicole said - you asked Nicole if O.J. had shown up, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And she said yes and then she told him to leave, to leave her alone, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And that he was not welcome?
A. In her family any longer.
Q. In her family. Did she tell you that she said anything else to O.J.?
MR. MARKS: You mean, apart from what she's already testified about?
MR. LEONARD: Yes, apart from that.
MR. PETROCELLI: No, she testified -
MR. MARKS: She gave more, I think she made some more points on, she said a little bit more, when she was asked the same question by Mr. Petrocelli.
Q. Tell me again, what did he say?
A. What did he say?
Q. What did she say that he said?
A. She said that - she told me what she said, what she said to him.
Q. Okay. And what was that?
A. Which was that he was not welcome in the family, in her family any longer, and that she wanted him to leave her alone. He was not welcome at dinner.
Q. Did she tell you anything else about the conversation other than that?
A. She said he was in a dark, deep mood. I'm sure there could have been other things but that was the most important thing.
Q. Did she tell you where she was when she had this conversation with O.J. ?
A. No, she did not.
Q. She gave you no detail on that?
A. No.
Q. Did she tell you who else was around when she had this conversation?
A. I wasn't questioning her.
Q. Did she tell you that?
A. No.
Q. When was it exactly that you say that O.J. came into Starbucks, when Ron Goldman was there?
A. It was when he returned from Mexico. Pardon me, when he returned from Puerto Rico.
Q. And you say he was driving the Bentley?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Who else was there when this exchange took place, other than Ron Goldman?
A. I have already answered that question.
MR. PETROCELLI: She answered that.
MR. MARKS: It's already been asked. She set out the names of the people that she recalled.
Q. Can you give me the names, please?
A. I have done that, sir.
Q. Can you provide them to me again, please?
A. Is that necessary?
Q. Yes.
MR. MARKS: I am going to allow her to do this, but please, don't ask her the same questions again, with the same information. You can follow up and ask follow-up questions, no problem. Please answer the question.
A. It was Ron's friends.
Q. Do you know their names?
A. I think there was Doug and I am not sure if Mike was there or not.
Q. Do you know their last names?
A. No, I don't. I didn't really know them.
Q. What did you do to prepare to testify today and yesterday?
MR. MARKS: With respect to any conversations that Ms. Resnick had with me or Mark Lafayette, her attorneys, I am going to object and instruct the witness not to answer any conversations that she had with her attorneys. If there is some other question you have for her, please do so.
Q. Other than that, what did you do to prepare, other than speaking with your attorneys?
A. Yoga. A lot of yoga.
Q. Did you have any discussions with Mr. Petrocelli?
A. Brief, yes.
Q. Did you review any documents?
A. I went over my books.
Q. And you are referring to the two exhibits that have been put into evidence so far?
A. Yes.
Q. Anything else?
A. I had a conversation with John Kelly.
Q. Anything else?
A. This had nothing to do with it, I guess, but I was interviewed by John Kelly in Los Angeles.
Q. When did that interview take place?
A. Three weeks ago, I would think. I believe.
Q. Were you - you weren't a witness at the criminal trial; is that correct?
A. No, I was not.
Q. When was the first time that you spoke to the police about any information that you had about O.J. Simpson and Nicole Brown?
A. I spoke with the DA. I didn't speak with the police.
Q. When was that, the first time?
A. After I had gotten out of the recovery center.
Q. Did you tell the district attorney essentially what you've been testifying to here today?
MR. PETROCELLI: I object. The question is vague, ambiguous, overbroad, lacks foundation. We don't know what the district attorney asked her.
Q. Did you tell the district attorney anything about the relationship between Nicole Brown and O.J. Simpson?
MR. PETROCELLI: Objection. Vague, ambiguous, overbroad. You have the interviews; why don't you show them to her?
Q. When was the first interview? What was the date?
A. I don't know the date.
Q. Was it in July of 1994?
A. I am not sure, sir. If you have the date, I would like to see it.
Q. When did you leave for Vermont?
A. Sometime in August.
MR. PETROCELLI: You are skipping around.
A. That, I am a little unclear on also.
MR. PETROCELLI: I don't know how you are doing this, because it is very difficult for me to keep track of going from one topic to another in random order. I am having trouble.
THE WITNESS: It's difficult.
MR. PETROCELLI: Wait a second before answering so I can have a chance to think where he is going and can object accordingly.
Q. When did you first give a recorded statement to the police or to the district attorney?
MR. MARKS: I am sorry, when you mean recorded, you mean tape recorded?
MR. LEONARD: Yes.
MR. PETROCELLI: I guess we are back from Vermont.
A. I don't know if they tape recorded my first interview, so I can't quite answer that question. Recorded, meaning swearing under oath ?
Q. No, not swearing under oath, but where you knew there was a tape-recording being made.
A. I didn't ask him if they were making a tape-recording of the first interview, so I can't say that for sure.
Q. Was it before or after your first book was published?
MR . KELLY: Objection.
MR. PETROCELLI: The first -
MR. KELLY: What was before or after her first book?
MR. LEONARD: Her first interview.
MR. KELLY: With the tape-recorded aspect of that thrown in there too, or not?
Q. The first tape-recorded interview.
A. As I said, I don't know if they recorded the first interview, so -
MR. MARKS: Just to be clear, is your question was her first interview with the prosecution before or after her book?
MR. LEONARD: Yes.
MR MARKS: Okay.
A. It was before.
MR. KELLY: And will you just ask her once and for all whether she knows whether or not any of her interviews were tape-recorded or not?
Q. Do you know that?
A . No, I don't. That's what I am trying to say.
Q. You have never seen a transcript of any interview?
A. No. Tape-recorded, no.
Q. You decided to write a book when? When did you make that decision?
A. I made that decision in my - it's hard to say when the decision was made. It was brought up to me by my attorney when I went to him for protection. Right after I got out of Exodus, I went straight to my attorney's office.
Q. You decided you would write a book for protection? Is that your testimony?
MR. KELLY: Objection. That is mischaracterization.
MR. PETROCELLI: That is argumentative. That's not what she said.
A. I - I am sorry, I will let you -
Q. Let me just be sure I get the sequence here. You got out of rehab and then you went to see your attorney?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you make any recordings at your attorney's office?
A. Yes, I - I handed him a tape that I had made and, of what had happened, just in case I was killed by somebody from O.J.'s side.
Q. You said that you made the tape because you thought you were going to be killed by somebody from O.J.'s side?
MR. MARKS: She didn't say that. That wasn't her testimony.
Q. Do you have that tape-recording?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Does your attorney have that?
A. I'm not aware of that. I haven't asked him.
Q. What did the - how did you make that tape-recording? Did you utilize any documents in order to make that?
A. No. The documents that I had were stolen from my home.
Q. So you didn't use any diaries to make that tape-recording?
A. I didn't have diaries left. They were taken from my home.
Q. How many diaries did you have at your home?
MR. KELLY: Objection. Do you have a time frame?
Q. At the time that they were stolen, how many diaries did you have?
A. I have diaries from when I was pretty young, so, a lot.
Q. Were you someone that kept - were you keeping a diary in 1994?
A. Yes, I was.
Q. Would you keep that on a daily basis?
A. My diary was my calendar also, so, yes, I went through and when times were important, I would enter the important times. I am not saying it was daily. It was importance.
Q. When you say they were your calendar, can you describe that for me?
A. I use a calendar on a daily basis to tell me where I am going and I just always buy enough where there is a lot of room every day so that it's my form of therapy, and I write down things that I am supposed to do and I write down things that are, that have affected me.
Q. And the calendar was something that you would make notations in pretty much every day? Is that right?
A. Yes. Notations of what I was doing on a daily basis, notations of stressful situations at stressful times, or good situations at good times.
Q. Was this something that you were trying to keep a secret or was this well known to your friends and family, that you were keeping a diary?
MR. KELLY: Objection. Time frame.
MR. LEONARD: Let's get - yes.
Q. In 1994 -
A. Yes?
Q. - were you keeping this calendar diary openly?
A. Yes, I didn't - no, I didn't hide it. There was nothing secretive about, about my calendars, my diaries.
Q. When did you notice the diaries were missing?
A. After - between the time - well, after I left treatment, and I really didn't go to the calendars and notice it until shortly after, after I got out of treatment. I believe it was when Christian Reichardt had left for some motorcycle trip with his motorcycle gang.
Q. Christian Reichardt was in a motorcycle gang?
A. Yes.
Q. How long had he been in a motorcycle gang?
A. I think five or six years - I, for a long time.
Q. Was that something that bothered you, that he was in a motorcycle gang?
A. No, it didn't.
Q. Where did you keep the diaries?
A. In my desk.
Q. Did you utilize information from the diaries in making the tape-recording that you have talked about?
A. I just took a recording and made the information - put the information very briefly, it was very short: the major information, the death threats, the fear of Nicole. I briefly gave this information that I was in fear for my life, a very short recording, to my attorney so there wasn't -
Q. But you didn't use the diaries because they weren't - you didn't have them, right?
A. I at that point didn't even go to look for them. But eventually, when I went to find them, I didn't have them. They were gone.
Q. So you didn't use the diaries?
A. The diaries were from my calendar. I didn't need to use the diaries, you know, the memory was very short.
Q. My question is, you did not use the diaries to create the recording?
MR. PETROCELLI: She has answered that several times.
Q. Just yes or no.
MR. KELLY: I don't think she can answer that yes or no.
MR. LEONARD: Really?
A. I don't think I can.
MR. KELLY: She agrees. I think it is two different issues here. Is she using the subject matter she said was contained in the diary to make the tape-recording or did she physically use the diaries in making the recordings?
Q. You didn't physically use the diaries?
A. I physically used my diaries on a daily basis, and I can say that.
Q . How did you - where were you -
MR. LEONARD: I will strike the question.
Q. Where were you when you made the tape-recording?
A. I'm not sure if my attorney recorded our conversation the night that I went to his house, but part of my tape, the tape that I made, I was driving in my car, the initial brief tape with the death threats on it. I was driving in my car to my attorney's office.
Q. So on that tape you described these death threats that you claim O.J. made, right?
A. On the tape I described the death threats that O.J. made.
Q. Okay. Anything else on the tape that you recall?
A. That was the most important.
Q. Anything else that related to the events that transpired, let's say, from January 1st until Nicole's death between O.J. and Nicole? Anything else on the tape that you can remember?
MR. PETROCELLI: Are you talking about the initial tape in the car on the way to the attorney's office?
MR. LEONARD: Yeah.
A. That I was in fear for my life, that I had told my counselors that he had threatened, that I had told Christian I wanted the tape to be known that there were people that knew of this. That was the substance - that was the information that was, that my attorney needed to know.
Q. So one of the things you said on the tape-recording was that you had told your counselors in - and do you mean the counselors at the rehab center? Is that what you are talking about?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. You told them about the death threats?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. No question about that in your mind?
A. No question at all.
Q. Which counselor?
MR. KELLY: Well, objection. Can we put this, once again, in a time frame?
MR. MARKS: I think that's not an unreasonable question. Please answer the question. Fair question .
A. Can I answer the question?
Q. Yes, sure.
A. I had told the two counselors and one of the administrative staff at the time that they had told me that Nicole was murdered, I just - it just came out of my mouth that he had said that he would murder them, murder him - her. God. At the time that I was told that Nicole was killed, I had no control over what came out of my mouth. I had immediately uttered that he said he would kill her.
Q. And who was it that you uttered that to?
A. There was Lori, I am not quite sure of her name, she is one of the head counselors at Exodus; Albert Torres, who was the administrator of Exodus. The two of them were the people who told me that Nicole was murdered. And there was Leslie Mirsch, who was also -
MR. KELLY: I am sorry, what was the name?
THE WITNESS: Mirsch.
MR. KELLY: No, the first name.
THE WITNESS: Leslie.
A. - who was also in the room.
Q. Do you know how to spell her last name?
A. No, I am sorry, I do not.
Q. And this is something you said to these three individuals, they were all in the same room with you?
A. I said it to the two counselors who told me that Nicole died, but Leslie was also right there and I remember feeling nervous that somebody would tell somebody and I would be killed next.
Q. Now, was that the first time that you told anyone at the rehab of the situation, that you felt fearful of O.J.?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. You didn't tell them, when you were admitted, that that was one of the problems that you were having, one of the reasons that you relapsed?
A. I had promised Nicole I wouldn't tell anyone .
Q. So you didn't tell them?
A. No.
Q. In fact, what you told them was that you were broke, right?
A. I don't recall what I told them at the time.
Q. You have no memory of what you told them the reason was that you relapsed into cocaine? Is that your testimony?
A. My testimony is that when I checked in to Exodus, I wasn't in a very good mood and I certainly, you know, I told them that I had been to Betty Ford and that I don't deal with stress very well and - I am not sure. You tell me.
Q. Well, I am trying to get your best memory at this point.
A. I understand.
Q. You had been in a rehab center before?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. And one of the things they do is they - there is an initial interview when you first arrive, right?
A. Yes, there is.
Q. And they ask you at that initial interview, the counselor or somebody like that, they ask you why, why do you think that you relapsed, right?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Right? Isn't that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you tell them that one of the reasons you relapsed is that you were fearful for your life?
A. To tell them?
Q. Did you tell them that at that time?
A. I am sure I did not.
Q. You did not?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell them, even in general terms, that you were fearful of something happening to you?
A. I don't believe so. You need to ask the counselor.
Q. But you don't have any memory of that?
A. No, I do not.
Q. Did you, on the other hand, tell them that you were having financial difficulties?
A. I could have.
Q. Did you tell them that that was the reason that you went into relapse?
A. I think, if anything, I probably told them that I had broken up with my fiance and that I was having financial difficulties.
Q. And of course, you were having financial difficulties?
A. I believe we have already covered that.
Q. You had been receiving alimony up until, what, June of '93, from Paul Resnick?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were getting $12,000 a month?
A. I was getting - it depended on the time frame. It was sometimes less than that, yes. And also lump settlements.
Q. And that alimony stopped in June of '93?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. Other than the $2,500 that you say Christian paid you for, what, 1994, for all of 1994, what other source of income did you have in 1994?
A. I had a business with a friend and we used to sell accessories.
Q. Who was that friend?
A. Kathy Harouche.
Q. How much money did you make in 1994 from that business?
A. I am not exactly sure. I invested the monies in the inventory and I certainly made back my investment. I believe I invested $20,000 into it and I'm not exactly sure how much money there was made out of it.
Q. Do you think you -
A. I am not the best businesswoman.
Q. Do you think you got significantly more than your investment back, let's put it that way, or did you sort of break even?
A. I am not quite sure, to be honest with you. I would like to know that answer.
Q. Other than that, what other source of income - other than that and the $2,500, what other source of income did you have in 1994?
A. Child support from my ex-husband.
Q. In what amount?
A. With the private school, it totaled up to, I guess, $1,000 a month.
Q. You said earlier that you had some type of operation in, you said, March of '93 - or February of '93?
A. I said March, I believe.
Q. Of '93? Well, that's what you testified to. That actually occurred in March of '94, correct?
MR. PETROCELLI: Excuse me, excuse me, she said March of '94 in her testimony.
A. Of '94.
MR. LEONARD: She did?
MR. PETROCELLI: Yes.
MR. MARKS: Let's get it straight. When is the correct date?
THE WITNESS: The correct date is March of 1994.
MR. PETROCELLI: That's the way I remembered it.
A. There was a lot of dates yesterday.
Q. So if you did say 1993, that was a mistake and it was March of 1994?
A. I don't believe I said March of '93. If I did, it was a mistake.
Q. And that was a woman's operation, right?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. How did you pay for that?
A. I paid for it with monies that I had.
Q. Did you sell a fur coat to Kathy Harouche to pay for that?
A. I did not sell a fur coat to Kathy Harouche to pay for it.
Q. You did not. Did you own a black mink coat?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. You never sold that to Kathy Harouche?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And when was that?
A. It was a month prior. I didn't use it anymore.
Q. A month prior to the operation?
A. Yes.
Q. And how much did you get for it?
A. I don't know, $6,500, something like that.
Q. And so you paid for - you didn't have health insurance, right, at that time?
A. I am not sure if my COBRA, my insurance policy was still there. But it didn't cover this type of operation.
Q. So you used funds that you had available from some other source?
A. Yes.
Q. And you didn't finance it through the sale of the coat?
MR. KELLY: Well, objection. I don't think she can characterize the commingling of the funds there that paid for it.
MR. PETROCELLI: I think she's already testified that she did not sell the coat to pay for the operation. In any event, I must at this point object that this is entirely irrelevant. -
THE WITNESS: Irrelevant.
MR. PETROCELLI: - to the issues at hand, which are the murders are Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. I can't see how this conceivably relates and I think this is harassing. I would ask that you move on to a topic of relevance.
MR. MARKS: Again, as I said in the beginning of this deposition to counsel of both sides, questions have to be material, necessary, relate to the allegations of both sides in their pleadings and not be argumentative. Please follow those rules, because those are the rules that govern here. I don't know what they govern in California.
MR. BREWER: Something like that.
Q. Did you pay for your treatment at Exodus?
A. I paid for part of my treatment at Exodus, yes.
Q. And what part - first of all, do you know what was the entire amount, how much it cost?
A. I believe it was $5,700 in total, because I paid cash.
Q. And which portion - how much did you pay?
A. I paid, I believe, 2,500 of that.
Q. Who paid the rest?
A. Christian Reichardt paid from the money that he owed me.
MR. PETROCELLI: So you in effect paid for all of it, then.
THE WITNESS: I paid for all of it. Thank you.
Q. At what point did you decide to write a book about your experience with O.J. Simpson and Nicole Brown Simpson?
A. I - the point - at what point? When I was told that my testimony would be given to the defense team immediately after I gave it to the prosecution, I had decided - I had been told also that I would more than likely not be able to testify due to my drug treatment, and that's when I decided to get the book to the public, just in case I was not able to live long enough to talk about it.
Q. So your - are you saying that your only motivation in writing the book was to get the story out in time, something like that?
A. I'm saying that I wanted to save my life. I am a mother. And that I was afraid that the public would not get to the public due to that.
Q. So you weren't interested in the financial aspect of the book? You didn't -
MR. MARKS: She didn't say that.
MR. LEONARD: Okay.
Q. Did you think that you were going to make some money out of the book?
A. I think that whenever you write a book, there is money to be made, yes.
Q. And you were interested in making money?
A. I was -
MR. KELLY: I object. Can we put that in a time frame also?
A. I was interested in getting the information to the public and I was interested in saving my life.
Q. Did you think that, at least as a residual effect, if you will, that you would make some money in the process of writing the book?
A. I was -
MR. PETROCELLI: I think she has already answered that.
MR. LEONARD: I don't think she has.
MR. PETROCELLI: She said she understood she would make money.
Q. Did you have any idea of how much money you would make?
A. I didn't have any idea.
Q. Did you consult with any - other than attorneys, did you consult with anyone else about how to go about writing this book?
A. No, I did not. And I only consulted with my one attorney, my private - my PI attorney.
Q. Who was that?
A. Arthur Barens.
MR. MARKS: Obviously, no questions with respect to conversations she had with her attorney.
MR. LEONARD: Other than those that have been waived in the book here?
MR. MARKS: If it is specific questions with respect to aspects in the book, that would be different.
MR. KELLY: It would also be improper, if she consulted with her current attorneys, whether that constitutes as a waiver also.
Q. How did you find your way to Mr. Walker, who co-authored the book? How did that happen?
A. I didn't find my way to Mr. Walker. My publisher, once I was in Vermont, brought him to Vermont to co-write the book with me. Excuse me, can we take a break?
MR. MARKS: Let's take a break, because I gather we are going to go off, the video is about to go off in a few minutes, so let's take a short break.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 4:17, and this is the end of tape number 4 of the deposition.
(Recess taken.)
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 4:38 and this is tape number 5 of the deposition of Faye Resnick.
BY MR. LEONARD:
Q. Let me just ask you another question about the diaries. Did you file a police report when you discovered that they were missing?
A. No. I was too afraid to.
Q. Did you report that they were stolen, to anyone else?
A. Yes. I told my friends.
Q. Who did you tell?
A. I told Kris Jenner. She was who I was staying with at the time.
Q. Anyone else?
A. I told the prosecution.
Q. Who in particular on the prosecution?
A. Marcia Clark. Oh, pardon me, Patty Fairbanks.
MR. PETROCELLI: Instead of Marcia?
THE WITNESS: Every time I talked to Patty, I felt I was talking to Marcia, because she relayed everything.
Q. Other than Kris Jenner and Patty Fairbanks, did you report this to anyone else, the fact that the diaries were missing?
A. To my attorney.
Q. Was that Arthur Barens?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Anyone else that you can think of?
A. Not that I can recall.
Q. When you went about actually writing the book, tell me how you did that. First tell me in general terms how you wrote the book, and I am talking about the first book you wrote, the private diary.
A. Mike Walker and I sat down with transcribers and transcribed the information that I gave him and then we would sit down and write the chapters from that.
Q. So you would sit with Mike Walker while you were dictating? Is that what was going on?
A. While the transcribers and the - yeah.
Q. Was there ever a time when Mike Walker wasn't present when you were with the transcribers and actually dictating portions of the book? Was he always present?
A. Mike was always present - I would say he was always present.
Q. Then the transcribers would create some type of a manuscript or draft? Would you then review it?
A. No. We would refer back to it if there was any questions.
Q. Did you have questions?
A. I questioned - I wanted to make sure everything was as accurate as possible.
Q. You wanted to make sure that The Private Diary was basically a full and complete and accurate record of what you had experienced, right?
MR. MARKS: I don't think that's what her testimony was.
Q. You wanted it to be as accurate as possible?
A. I wanted The Private Diary to reflect what was happening during the last two years of Nicole's life.
Q. And you wanted it to be as accurate as possible?
A. I would say that, yes.
Q. And were you trying to describe as accurately as you could the important incidents that occurred in that period?
A. Under the stressful circumstance that it was, yes, I was.
Q. And do you feel that you succeeded in doing that?
A. I feel that The Private Diary -
MR. KELLY: Objection.
MR. MARKS: I -
MR. KELLY: I am going to ask -
MR. LEONARD: I will withdraw the question.
MR. KELLY: I would ask the witness to give yes or no answers to the questions that call for yes or no answers, rather than injecting feelings and thoughts and things.
Q. Did you ever have to get help with some details on, in writing the book? Did you ever have to consult with other people who had been involved in some of these events?
A. No.
Q. You did not? Did you ever call Christian Reichardt during, while you were writing the book, to find out any information about anything that happened, that you were writing about in the book?
A. Not to my recollection.
Q. Did you ever call Cora Fishman to ask her about any information that you were writing about in the book?
A. Absolutely not.
Q. You did not. Do you recall -
MR. BREWER: Can we get a verbal response? You were just shaking her head like this. It has to be yes or no.
MR. MARKS: I thought she said "absolutely not."
MR. BREWER: Well, I didn't hear it. Okay.
Q. So your testimony is you didn't consult with anyone else that was involved with any of these incidents while you were writing the book in order to check the accuracy of what you were writing?
MR. KELLY: Objection. I think that that is a mischaracterization. You asked her just about a couple of specific people. You didn't ask her if she consulted with anybody. You just asked her-
Q. Did you consult with anybody else?
A. The question "consulting," no.
MR. LEONARD: Okay, I will withdraw that.
Q. Did you - did you have any questions about any of the information that you were writing about; for instance, dates or events that occurred or how the events occurred, while you were writing? Did you have questions?
A. No, I did not have any questions about the, what I was writing. I talked to friends to authenticate the book after it was written .
Q. After it was written?
A. Yes.
Q. But not before, not during?
A. Not to my best recollection.
Q. And who were those friends?
A. Robin Greer, Cynthia Shahian, Kris Jenner and Candace Garvey.
Q. Do you recall specifically any of the areas that you had questions about or that you - excuse me, that you wanted to get authentication from, from any of these people? Do you recall any of the areas that you needed to get authenticated?
MR. PETROCELLI: Mischaracterizes the testimony.
Q. Did you call these people for, to authenticate certain information that you had already written about in the book? Is that what you said?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. Do you recall, for instance, what you were seeking to get authenticated by Robin Greer?
A. Not one particular event that I was - nothing in particular. Just wanted her to authenticate the book, anything she recalled.
MR. MARKS: Can you just define your reference to say authentication? Did she just get information about it, is that what you mean?
Q. What did you mean by that, when you used that term?
A. Authenticate meant to corroborate the information after it was already written .
Q. And again, this was after the book was already written?
A. Yes.
Q. At some point after the book was written, did you or did someone at your request create a correction sheet?
A. Edited changes.
Q. Edited changes?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there - were those changes ever actually made into any publication of the book?
A. Minor - the corrections of - some of them were, yes. There was some that were not able to.
Q. And were these - these edit - did you call them editing corrections? Is that what you called them?
A. Mm-hmm, yes.
Q. Did you make those as a result of discussions you had with other individuals, when you went to get the authentication?
A. No.
Q. You did not?
A. No.
Q. Do you recall one of the editing corrections was changing the name Marcello to Alessandro? Do you remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Was that a mistake that you made?
A. No, it was not.
Q. Why did you change the name?
A. I was told by the publisher that we should call him Marcello.
MR. PETROCELLI: You said change Marcello to Alessandro; is that what you said?
MR. LEONARD: Yes.
MR. PETROCELLI: She is talking about changing Alessandro to Marcello, so you have it reversed.
Q. There was an editing change from Marcello to Alessandro, wasn't there?
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And -
MR. PETROCELLI: But it - okay.
Q. But that never found its way into the book?
A. I don't know if that, if in the second printing it was changed, to be quite honest with you. I know that in Shattered, in the audio version I used Alessandro.
Q. Explain to me again, why did you use Marcello in the first edition?
A. Alessandro was going around telling people he was being deported or something like that and he wasn't supposed to be in this country or whatever, and I was just trying to protect the innocent, that's all, and the publisher felt that that was the best thing to do.
Q. Did you indicate in the book at any point that you were using names that were inaccurate?
MR. PETROCELLI: The book speaks for itself.
Q. Do you recall doing that in the book anywhere, having anyone do that in the book?
A. I'm not quite sure. I think we did say that Marcello wasn't his real name in the book.
Q. You did?
A. I believe so.
Q. When was the last time you spoke to Alessandro?
A. I saw - I was walking, like, two weeks ago, said hello on the street briefly. No conversation, really.
Q. Have you ever discussed with Alessandro the events that you described involving him in this book?
A. No, I have not.
Q. Let me go back to April of 1993. You testified that before April of 1993, you had a discussion with Nicole Brown Simpson where she described in some detail beatings or a beating that she had. Is that right?
MR PETROCELLI: May I hear the question back, please? Hold on. (Record read.)
A. I had a dis - yes.
Q. When was that discussion?
A. I believe we have already gone over that.
Q. Do you have a date that it occurred?
A. It was at Toscana restaurant and it was during the year of 1993.
Q. And other than Nicole, was anyone else present?
A. I believe it was just the two of us. It was definitely the two of us.
Q. And she described in detail the beating that you say that she told you about, right?
A. What I recall of my testimony was that she was very vague and it was over the pregnancies.
Q. So your testimony is that she didn't describe in any detail the 19 -
MR. LEONARD: Let me strike that.
Q. Did she describe in detail the 1989 911 alleged beating?
MR. PETROCELLI: You are saying in detail?
MR. LEONARD: Yeah.
MR. PETROCELLI: As opposed to generally?
MR. LEONARD: Yeah.
MR. PETROCELLI: Because the witness already testified about the 1989 and the pregnancy beatings in this conversation. I guess the question is in detail.
A. Are you asking me the question -
Q. You testified that she told you that Nicole was kicked, right, and punched, right? She told you -
MR. PETROCELLI: Excuse me - hold on, Mr. Leonard. She testified that before April of '93, Nicole told her about two beatings, one the '89 beating and the other the pregnancy beatings.
MR. LEONARD: Right.
MR. PETROCELLI: That's what her prior testimony is. Now which beating are you talking about?
MR. LEONARD: I am talking about the alleged beating in 1989.
MR. PETROCELLI: Okay.
A. The alleged beating in 1989, Nicole did not go into the detail at that time that she went into in the latter part.
Q. She -
A. She went into some detail but she did not go into the detail that she had in the latter conversation in May of '94.
Q. Did she - but she told you, she gave you some details about that she was kicked, punched and all that, right?
A. She gave me details, vague details of the nature of it, yes.
Q. You next had a discussion with her - and that wasn't until, in Cabo, right, in 1993 - or 1994, correct?
A. Yes.
MR. PETROCELLI: About beatings?
MR. LEONARD: Yes.
Q. You first met Nicole, though, in July of '92, right?
MR. MARKS: I think her testimony was, if I am correct, she may have met her earlier but it wasn't until July of '92 that they became friends and started spending more time together.
Q. You became close to her from July 4th, 1992, right?
A. Yes.
Q. And prior to that, you hadn't had any discussions with her about personal matters, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And you weren't privy to any of her private affairs, right?
A. That's not true.
Q. Did you - had you had any discussions with O.J. Simpson prior to July of 1992?
A. Only one.
Q. And when was that?
A. That was when I first met him and we were introduced by Susannah and it was brief. Strictly introduction.
Q. When did you - when did you first meet Keith Zlomsowich?
A. I first met Keith very early on in my friendship with Nicole, right around July or August.
Q. Did you - were you friendly with Nicole when the incidents allegedly occurred where O.J. was hiding in the bushes and peering in the window? Were you friendly with her then?
MR. PETROCELLI: Referring to when O.J. saw Nicole and Keith having sex?
MR. LEONARD: Yes.
Q. Were you friendly with Nicole then?
MR. PETROCELLI: I think that is asked and answered already.
MR. MARKS: Well, she can answer the question.
A. Yes, I was a friend of hers.
Q. Did you attempt to intercede at any point with O.J. about this incident ?
A. Much later on.
Q. When was that?
A. When we were having - when I had a conversation with him about his behavior the night of the - that he knocked down the door, that he mentioned to me he had seen Keith's picture.
Q. I want to go back to the incident that-
MR. LEONARD: Let me strike that.
Q. Let me ask you about the instances where you say O.J. was using cocaine.
A. Yes.
Q. He was - you described an incident on December 23rd, 1993?
A. Yes.
Q. And you said that he was - when he did the cocaine, he had some very obvious reaction?
A. Yes.
Q. Was Nicole there?
A. Yes, she was.
Q. How did she react?
A. She thought it was normal.
Q. She thought that was normal?
A. She had been married to him forever.
Q. Did she disapprove of his using cocaine?
A. She didn't like it.
Q. She didn't react to that?
A. She just - not really.
Q. Was she looking adoringly at him at that time?
MR. KELLY: Objection as to the form of the question. I don't think she can answer as to Nicole's state of mind or appearances. Nicole was looking at someone.
Q. Do you recall writing in your book that Nicole was looking at O.J. adoringly that night? Do you recall that?
A. I recall that she was very much in love with him that night.
Q. When you were at the Hermosa Beach sushi bar - was it the California Sushi Bar?
A. Yes, it was.
Q. O.J. was acting in what, I believe you said, was an animalistic rage; is that right?
A. Yes.
Q. Were there a lot of people around?
A. Many.
Q. And at the table - actually, you were at a sushi bar?
A. Yes.
Q. And Christian was there and Nicole was there?
A. Yes.
Q. How many other people were right in that area, can you tell me, approximately?
A. We were sitting at the very end of the bar and we had taken up the entire, this part of the bar, so we were somewhat secluded from the rest of the bar. The other bar went this way and the wall was this way. O.J. was exactly against the wall.
Q. Then he at some point - you went down to the ladies room?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And he went down and you say crashed the door in?
A. Yes, he did.
Q. How many people were outside when that happened? You said there were three women waiting in line?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there anyone else in that area?
A. It was a lower bar area that was essentially empty.
Q. And when he came back up, there was a - the manager was there, is that right?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. Do you remember the manager's name?
A. No, I do not. I didn't talk with him.
Q. The manager - could you see whether the manager observed what O.J. was doing?
A. Yes. The person that was standing at the maitre d' station, which I assume was the manager, observed O.J.'s behavior.
Q. Did you see the manager react in any way?
A. He just looked strange, he looked at O.J. and us very strangely.
Q. Did the manager say anything?
A. No, he did not.
MR. MARKS: Excuse me, it's 5 o'clock, so if it's acceptable -
MR. KELLY: Can we keep going for a little bit, maybe?
MR. MARKS: Maybe for a little bit -
MR. KELLY: As long as we could today.
MR. MARKS: Only for a few minutes. It is a long tiring day, obviously.
Q. At Toscana, you testified that O.J. was in an animal rage for 10 minutes; is that right?
A. I didn't say he was in an animal rage. I said that he was perspiring, I said that he was threatening Alessandro and I said that he was being aggressive.
Q. And he was - you said he was leaning over the table and he was hunched up; is that right?
A. Yes. He was like this.
Q. And Christian was there with you?
A. Yes, he was.
Q. Who else was present?
A. As I testified yesterday, Cynthia Shahian, Cora Fishman, Ron Fishman, Nicole and O.J.
Q. Did the others in the party discuss O.J.'s behavior?
MR. PETROCELLI: You mean, to her knowledge?
MR. LEONARD Yes.
MR. KELLY: And at what time, if at all?
A. I would assume while I was in -
MR. KELLY: Objection. I will ask the witness not to assume anything.
A. I'm not sure. I went to the restroom. I had a conversation with Nicole about it.
Q. Okay. Did you - are you aware of - so you are not aware of any discussion that occurred after that, amongst the parties there?
A. My discussion - no, I am not aware of any other discussion at the table about it. It was kind of natural at that point for us to see him do things like that.
MR. MARKS: Mr. Leonard, I don't want to interrupt you but if you would like to finish any more questions about that particular incident, I think that will close for today.
MR. LEONARD: No, I am finished with that area.
MR. MARKS: Thank you.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 5:05 p.m. This is the end of tape number 5 of the deposition of Faye Resnick. (Time noted: 5:05 p.m.)
FAYE RESNICK Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of ,1996.
(Notary Public) My Commission Expires:
CERTIFICATE STATE OF NEW YORK
ss.
COUNTY OF NEW YORK
I, CARY N. BIGELOW, a Shorthand Reporter and a Notary Public within and for the State of New York, do hereby certify that the foregoing continued deposition of FAYE RESNICK was taken before me on the 11th day of February, 1996; That the said witness was previously sworn and that the said testimony was taken stenographically by me and then transcribed.
I further certify that I am not related by blood or marriage to any of the parties to this action nor interested directly or indirectly in the matter in controversy; nor am I in the employ of any of the counsel in this action.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 13th day of February, 1996.
CARY BIGELOW February 11, 1996