DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL.

MR. COCHRAN: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN. COUNSEL, THERE IS ANYTHING WE NEED TO PUT ON THE RECORD BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURY INTO JOIN US? ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, WOULD YOU INVITE THE JURY TO JOIN US, PLEASE.

MS. CLARK: MAY THE WITNESS TAKE THE STAND, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE NOW BEEN JOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

THE COURT: DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND ON DIRECT EXAMINATION.

RONALD PHILLIPS, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

THE WITNESS: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: DETECTIVE, YOU ARE REMINDED THAT YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. AND MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE WITH YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

A: GOOD MORNING.

Q: YESTERDAY I BELIEVE WHEN WE LEFT OFF YOU HAD GONE TO THE GUEST UNIT THAT IS BEHIND THE MAIN HOUSE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM AND YOU SAID YOU WENT AND KNOCKED ON THE DOOR?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU KNOCKED ON THE DOOR FOR THE FIRST TIME, WHAT HAPPENED?

A: I KNOCKED ON THE DOOR. NOBODY ANSWERED THE DOOR ORIGINALLY, SO I BENT DOWN, BECAUSE THE LOUVERS ON THE BOTTOM PART OF THE DOOR WERE OPENED, AND I PEERED INTO THE LOUVERS AND I SAW WHAT APPEARED TO BE A HAND AND AN ARM AND IN A LYING POSITION, SO I INFORMED THE OTHER DETECTIVES THAT THERE WAS SOMEONE IN THE ROOM LYING DOWN, AND SHORTLY THEREAFTER SOMEONE ANSWERED THE DOOR.

Q: AND THAT SOMEONE THAT YOU LATER DETERMINED WAS KATO KAELIN, IS THAT WHAT YOU TESTIFIED TO?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU FIRST CONTACTED MR. KAELIN, YOU IDENTIFIED YOURSELF, SIR?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHAT DID YOU SAY TO HIM?

A: I TOLD HIM I WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AND I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO WHOEVER -- TO MR. SIMPSON IN THE HOUSE.

Q: AND WHAT WAS HIS RESPONSE?

MR. COCHRAN: HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: GOES TO EXPLAIN SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: HE JUST SAID THAT HE WASN'T THERE OR HE DIDN'T KNOW IF HE WAS THERE. I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE NOW EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND DID YOU ASK ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS OF HIM?

A: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS OF HIM, NO.

Q: DID YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHETHER THERE WAS SOMEONE AROUND WHO COULD GET YOU INTO THE HOUSE TO LOOK FOR MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU MAKE ANY INQUIRY OF HIM IN THAT REGARD?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT INQUIRY?

A: HE BROUGHT IT TO MY ATTENTION, THAT ARNELLE, MR. SIMPSON'S DAUGHTER, WAS IN THE ROOM DIRECTLY TO HIS RIGHT, AND HE POINTED DOWN THE WALKWAY TO ANOTHER ROOM.

Q: AND SO HE POINTED OUT ARNELLE'S ROOM IN RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHERE MR. SIMPSON WAS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, DID YOU TELL HIM WHY YOU WERE DOING THERE, WHY YOU WERE AT THAT LOCATION?

A: NO, NO.

Q: WHY NOT?

A: I DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS, TO BEGIN WITH. DIDN'T WANT TO CAUSE ANY HYSTERIA AROUND THE RESIDENCE BY TELLING THE WRONG PERSON THE WRONG THING. I WANTED TO TELL THIS TO MR. SIMPSON HIMSELF.

Q: DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME WHETHER HE WAS RELATED TO ANYONE ON THE PREMISES?

A: I HAD NO IDEA WHO HE WAS AT ALL.

Q: SO AFTER HE POINTED OUT ARNELLE'S UNIT TO YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I WALKED DOWN TO ARNELLE'S ROOM.

Q: AND WAS THAT RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO HIS?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: AND WAS EVERYBODY WITH YOU AT THAT POINT WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN TO ARNELLE'S ROOM?

A: ONLY VANNATTER AND LANGE WALKED WITH ME. I BELIEVE THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN STAYED BEHIND WITH MR. KAELIN.

Q: DID YOU ACTUALLY SEE HIM GO IN AND TALK TO MR. KAELIN?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: BUT YOU SAW -- BUT HE DID STAY BEHIND WITH HIM WHILE YOU WENT NEXT DOOR?

A: I DIDN'T SEE WHAT HE DID. HE JUST DIDN'T FOLLOW ME.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: KNOCKED ON THE ROOM THAT HAD BEEN POINTED OUT TO ME AS ARNELLE'S ROOM AND SOMEONE ASKED ME WHO IT WAS AND I SAID "THE POLICE" AND THEN A FEMALE ANSWERED THE DOOR.

Q: AND THAT FEMALE, DID SHE IDENTIFY HERSELF?

A: I ASKED HER WHO SHE WAS AND SHE TOLD ME HER NAME WAS ARNELLE SIMPSON.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SAY?

A: I TOLD HER I WAS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, THAT WE HAD AN EMERGENCY AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF HER FATHER WAS IN THE HOUSE, WE NEEDED TO TALK TO HIM.

Q: AND WHAT WAS HER RESPONSE?

A: SHE MADE A STATEMENT TO EITHER VANNATTER OR LANGE AND I DIDN'T RECALL EXACTLY WHAT THAT STATEMENT WAS. IT WAS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT "ISN'T HE THERE?" AND THEN THEY BEGAN TO TALK TO HER.

Q: WHEN SHE SAID "ISN'T HE THERE," DO YOU MEAN IN THE HOUSE?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THAT IS SPECULATION.

THE COURT: THIS IS HEARSAY. IT IS NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF EXPLAINING SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT AT THIS POINT.

MR. COCHRAN: MOVE TO STRIKE.

MS. CLARK: I'M JUST ASKING FOR HER --

THE COURT: SIDE BAR WITHOUT THE REPORTER.

MS. CLARK: YES.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU. COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE.

MS. CLARK: I WILL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT QUESTION.

Q: AND AFTER ARNELLE ASKED YOU THAT QUESTION, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THE -- MYSELF AND THE OTHER TWO DETECTIVES AND ARNELLE WALKED TOWARDS THE MAIN HOUSE.

Q: NOW, DURING THAT TIME COULD YOU HEAR CONVERSATION IN KATO -- GOING ON IN KATO KAELIN'S ROOM WHILE YOU WERE TALKING TO ARNELLE?

A: NO.

Q: WHEN YOU -- DID YOU WALK WITH ARNELLE SOMEWHERE AFTER YOU SPOKE TO HER?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU WALK?

A: WALKED TO THE REAR OF THE MAIN HOUSE -- NOT TO THE REAR OF THE MAIN HOUSE, BUT THE BACK PORTION OF THE MAIN HOUSE WHERE THERE WAS SOME FRENCH DOORS AND ANOTHER SMALLER DOOR RIGHT NEXT TO IT.

Q: WHEN YOU WALKED TOWARD THE MAIN HOUSE, DID YOU PASS BY MR. KAELIN'S ROOM?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU LOOK INSIDE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: WALKED UP TO ONE -- ONE DOOR THAT LED INTO THE HOUSE AND ARNELLE SIMPSON UNLOCKED THE DOOR FOR US AND OPENED THE DOOR.

Q: AND DID YOU ALL WALK INSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT WAS WHO AT THAT POINT?

A: THAT WAS ARNELLE SIMPSON, MYSELF, TOM LANGE AND PHIL VANNATTER.

Q: WENT IN THROUGH THE REAR?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: WE WALKED IN THROUGH THE LIVING ROOM AREA AND THEN INTO A KITCHEN AREA AND FROM THE KITCHEN AREA WE WALKED AROUND TO A MAID'S QUARTERS THAT WAS OFF THE KITCHEN.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING, SIR. BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY WENT INTO THE HOUSE WITH ARNELLE, YOU INDICATED THAT THERE WAS A CONVERSATION THAT TOOK PLACE WHILE ARNELLE WAS STILL IN HER ROOM BETWEEN DETECTIVES LANGE, VANNATTER AND ARNELLE SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND WERE YOU PRESENT DURING THAT CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU RECALL WHAT THEY SAID TO EACH OTHER?

A: I DON'T RECALL THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION.

MR. COCHRAN: HE HAS ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU ENTERED THE REAR OF THE HOUSE WITH MISS SIMPSON, WHAT HAPPENED FIRST? WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING YOU DID?

A: WE WALKED INTO THE KITCHEN AREA THROUGH THE LIVING ROOM AND WE WENT INTO THIS ROOM RIGHT OFF THE KITCHEN WHEN TURNED OUT TO BE A MAID'S ROOM.

Q: WHY DID YOU DO THAT?

A: WE WENT IN THERE TO SEE IF A MAID NAMED GIGI WAS IN THE RESIDENCE.

Q: WHY YOU WERE LOOKING FOR GIGI?

A: BECAUSE WE HAD BEEN TOLD OUTSIDE THE RESIDENCE BEFORE WE EVER ENTERED IT THAT THERE WAS A FULL-TIME MAID THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE LIVING ON THE PREMISES AND ARNELLE HAD MADE REFERENCE TO GIGI WHEN WE WENT OUTSIDE THE RESIDENCE BEFORE EVER ENTERING.

Q: WHAT WAS THAT COMMENT SHE MADE?

A: SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT, "ISN'T GIGI IN THE HOUSE?" OR SOMETHING TO THAT NATURE.

Q: SO YOU WERE LOOKING FOR GIGI?

A: YES.

Q: WHY WERE YOU LOOKING FOR GIGI?

A: WE HAD BEEN TOLD BY THE WESTEC PEOPLE THAT SHE WAS A FULL -- LIVE-IN MAID, FULL-TIME, AND ARNELLE HAD ALSO BROUGHT HER NAME UP, SO WE THOUGHT IF WE COULD FIND HER, SHE MAY KNOW WHERE MR. SIMPSON WAS AT IN THE HOUSE.

Q: AND YOU WENT INTO HER ROOM THEN?

A: WE JUST WENT INTO THE ROOM BRIEFLY, YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SEE IN THE ROOM?

A: THERE WAS NOBODY INSIDE THE ROOM AND THE BED WAS COMPLETELY MADE AND THE ROOM WAS WELL ORGANIZED AND IT DIDN'T APPEAR THAT ANYBODY HAD BEEN IN THERE RECENTLY.

Q: THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: WALKED BACK OUT INTO THE KITCHEN.

Q: NOW, WAS ARNELLE TALKING TO YOU DURING THAT PERIOD OF TIME?

A: SHE WAS RIGHT WITH US.

Q: AND WHAT WAS SHE SAYING?

A: WANTED TO KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

Q: DID YOU TELL HER?

A: I DID NOT.

Q: WHY NOT?

A: WANTED TO TALK TO -- WANTED TO FIND OUT WHERE HER FATHER WAS FIRST AND TALK TO HER FATHER FIRST AND TOM LANGE WAS TALKING TO ARNELLE AT THE SAME TIME.

Q: WHY DID YOU WANT TO TALK TO MR. SIMPSON BEFORE YOU TOLD ARNELLE SIMPSON WHAT WAS GOING ON?

A: BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW HOW UPSET SHE WAS GOING TO GET WITH THE INFORMATION. SHE MAY BECOME HYSTERICAL ABOUT IT. AND I WANTED TO KEEP EVERYTHING AS CALM AS COULD BE UNTIL I COULD GET AHOLD OF MR. SIMPSON HIMSELF.

Q: DID YOU WANT TO KEEP HER -- DID YOU WANT HER ASSISTANCE IN TRYING TO LOCATE MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: SO WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I ASKED HER IF SHE KNEW OF ANY WAY THAT I COULD GET AHOLD OF HER FATHER AND SHE SAID THAT A LADY NAMED CATHY, HIS SECRETARY, ALWAYS KNOWS WHERE HE IS, SO I THEN ASKED HER IF SHE COULD GET AHOLD OF CATHY AND SHE DID, SHE GOT AHOLD OF CATHY ON THE TELEPHONE.

Q: WAS THAT IN YOUR PRESENCE?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU PRESENT THEN WHEN SHE SPOKE TO SOMEONE NAMED CATHY?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER THAT WHAT HAPPENED?

A: SHE TOLD CATHY ON THE PHONE THAT THE POLICE WANTED TO TALK TO HER AND SHE HANDED ME THE PHONE.

Q: THEN DID YOU SPEAK TO SOMEONE ON THE OTHER END OF THE PHONE?

A: YES. I IDENTIFIED MYSELF AS DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AND I NEEDED TO KNOW IF SHE KNEW WHERE O.J. SIMPSON WAS AT.

Q: DID YOU TELL HER WHY?

A: NO, I DID NOT. I TOLD HER WE HAD AN EMERGENCY, BUT I DID NOT TELL HER WHAT THE EMERGENCY WAS.

Q: DID SHE ASK YOU?

A: SHE ASKED ME WHAT WAS WRONG AND I TOLD HER I COULDN'T TELL HER. I TOLD HER I WOULD CALL HER BACK AND TELL HER LATER.

Q: AGAIN, WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL HER?

MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS IRRELEVANT AND IMMATERIAL, YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER.

THE WITNESS: FOR THE SAME REASON. I WANTED HER COOPERATION IN FINDING OUT WHERE MR. SIMPSON WAS FIRST. I DIDN'T WANT HER TO BECOME ALARMED AND UPSET AND HANG UP ON ME AND THEN MAKE THE PHONE CALL HERSELF.

Q: WHY DIDN'T YOU WANT HER TO MAKE THE PHONE CALL HERSELF?

A: BECAUSE I HAD THE INFORMATION OF WHAT I NEEDED TO TELL MR. SIMPSON AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE GOT IT FIRSTHAND FROM ME AND NOT SECONDHAND FROM SOMEBODY ELSE AND NOT THE FACTS.

Q: SOMEONE WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHAT INFORMATION DID THIS PERSON GIVE YOU?

A: SHE TOLD ME THAT MR. SIMPSON HAD GONE ON A RED EYE FLIGHT THE NIGHT BEFORE AND HE TRAVELED TO CHICAGO AND THAT HE WAS STAYING AT THE CHICAGO O'HARE PLAZA HOTEL.

Q: DID SHE GIVE YOU THE PHONE NUMBER?

A: NO, SHE DID NOT, SHE DIDN'T HAVE IT, BUT I THANKED HER VERY MUCH FOR HER COOPERATION AND I CALLED INFORMATION AND GOT THE PHONE NUMBER.

Q: DID YOU DO THAT IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU HUNG UP WITH HER?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU GOT THE NUMBER?

A: CALLED THE HOTEL IN CHICAGO.

Q: AND DID YOU ASK FOR MR. SIMPSON?

A: I ASKED FOR O.J. SIMPSON'S ROOM. I ASKED IF MR. SIMPSON WAS REGISTERED AT THAT HOTEL AND THEY SAID, "JUST A MOMENT."

Q: AND THEN?

A: SHORTLY THEREAFTER A MALE VOICE WHICH I RECOGNIZED AS MR. SIMPSON'S VOICE ANSWERED THE PHONE AND I ASKED HIM, I SAID, "IS THIS O.J. SIMPSON?" AND HE STATED, "YES, WHO IS THIS?" AND I SAID, "THIS IS DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT. I HAVE SOME BAD NEWS FOR YOU."

Q: OKAY. CAN WE HOLD ON ONE SECOND HERE.

A: YES.

Q: WHAT PHONE DID YOU MAKE THAT CALL FROM?

A: THE TELEPHONE IN MR. SIMPSON'S KITCHEN.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A BOARD THAT I HAVE SHOWN TO COUNSEL.

MR. DARDEN: IT IS GOING TO BE 67.

MS. CLARK: 67, THANK YOU.

THE COURT: 67.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(PEO'S 67 FOR ID = POSTERBOARD)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: DO YOU SEE THE EXHIBIT THAT HAS JUST BEEN PLACED NEXT TO YOU, PEOPLE'S 67?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU SEE THE PORTION -- DO YOU SEE, FIRST OF ALL, WHAT THAT IS?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: WHAT IS THAT?

A: IT IS A GENERAL TELEPHONE BILL, TELEPHONE BILL FROM A RESIDENCE.

Q: DO YOU SEE THE PHONE NUMBER, WITHOUT READING IT --

A: YES.

Q: -- OUT LOUD?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PHONE NUMBER?

A: YES.

Q: FOR WHAT -- EXCUSE ME. WAS THAT THE PHONE NUMBER OF THE PHONE THAT YOU USED TO CALL CHICAGO FROM THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU SEE THE PORTION OF THAT BILL THAT IS HIGHLIGHTED?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND DOES THAT INDICATE THAT THERE WAS A CALL MADE FROM THE PHONE IN THE KITCHEN OF THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE TO CHICAGO AT 6:05?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. I DON'T THINK THAT BILL TELLS YOU THE PHONE. IT WAS MADE FROM THE KITCHEN.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

MS. CLARK: I WILL WITHDRAW THAT, YOUR HONOR.

Q: DOES THAT REFLECT THAT A PHONE CALL WAS MADE FROM THE DEFENDANT'S PHONE ON JUNE THE 13TH AT 6:05 TO CHICAGO?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE PHONE NUMBER TO CHICAGO THAT IS SHOWN AT 6:05, IS THAT THE PHONE NUMBER FOR THE O'HARE HOTEL, O'HARE PLAZA HOTEL THAT YOU CALLED?

A: I DON'T -- IT LOOKS LIKE THE SAME PHONE NUMBER, YES.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THAT -- THAT BOARD SHOWN TO THE JURORS IN THE CHEAP SEATS?

MS. CLARK: WHAT I THOUGHT I WOULD DO IS ACTUALLY SHOW ON THE ELMO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: LET ME ASK, IS THIS STILL MR. SIMPSON'S PHONE NUMBER, COUNSEL?

THE DEFENDANT: (SHAKES HEAD FROM SIDE TO SIDE.)

THE COURT: OKAY. I DIDN'T WANT TO SEND IT OUT IF IT WAS STILL HIS PHONE NUMBER.

MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THE NUMBER --

THE COURT: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: -- MAY I SAY A WORD TO MISS CLARK ON THAT?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, CAN WE TAKE IT OFF THE ELMO FOR JUST A MOMENT? MAY WE APPROACH ON THAT?

THE COURT: SURE.

MR. COCHRAN: I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT SOME OF THESE OTHER PEOPLE.

THE COURT: SURE.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, WHY DON'T YOU HAVE ONE OF YOUR ASSISTANTS TAKE THE BOARD DOWN AT THIS POINT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. IS THERE A STIPULATION THAT YOU CARE TO OFFER?

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. RATHER THAN AIR THE PHONE NUMBERS OF EVERYONE ELSE ON THE BILL, WE WILL STIPULATE THAT THE DEFENDANT CALLED -- EXCUSE ME. THAT THE DETECTIVE -- DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, CALLED THE DEFENDANT IN CHICAGO ON JUNE 13 AT 6:05 A.M. -- NO, NO, NO, TAKE IT DOWN -- AT 6:05 A.M. AND THE CALL LASTED FOR FIVE MINUTES.

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD STIPULATE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CALLED MR. SIMPSON AT 6:05 A.M.

MS. CLARK: IN CHICAGO ON JUNE 13?

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

THE COURT: AND THE CALL LASTED FIVE MINUTES AND THE CALL EMANATED SOMEWHERE FROM THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE.

MR. COCHRAN: SO STIPULATED, YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, AS I TOLD YOU, A STIPULATION IS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE ATTORNEYS AS TO THE FACTS OF THE CASE. YOU ARE TO ACCEPT THE STIPULATION AS EVIDENCE. THE REASON WE ARE DOING THIS IS THE PHONE BILL HAS OTHER PERSON'S PHONE NUMBERS ON IT THAT WE JUST DON'T WANT TO SUBJECT TO ANY UNDUE HARASSMENT BECAUSE OF THIS CASE, AND THERE IS NO DISPUTE AS TO THE PHONE NUMBER. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. I APPRECIATE THAT.

MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: AND THEN YOU SPOKE TO SOMEONE WHO ACKNOWLEDGED THAT HE WAS MR. SIMPSON?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I TOLD HIM WHO I WAS, I WAS DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS FROM THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THAT I HAD SOME BAD NEWS FOR HIM AND HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT, "WHAT'S THAT?" AND I SAYS, "WELL, I GOT SOME BAD NEWS. YOUR EX-WIFE, NICOLE SIMPSON, HAS BEEN KILLED."

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: HE -- I THINK THE FIRST WORDS OUT OF HIS MOUTH WERE SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT. "OH, MY GOD. NICOLE IS KILLED? AND OH, MY GOD, SHE IS DEAD?" AND THEN HE GOT VERY UPSET ON THE TELEPHONE.

Q: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: I KEPT TRYING TO CALM HIM DOWN AND HE CONTINUED TO BE UPSET, WHICH I EXPECTED, AND HE CONTINUED TO BE UPSET AND I FINALLY SAID, "MR. SIMPSON, PLEASE TRY TO GET AHOLD OF YOURSELF. I HAVE YOUR CHILDREN AT THE WEST LOS ANGELES POLICE STATION. I NEED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT." AND HE SAID -- AND HE SAID, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU HAVE MY CHILDREN AT THE POLICE STATION? WHY ARE MY KIDS AT THE POLICE STATION?" AND I SAID, "BECAUSE WE HAD NO PLACE ELSE TO TAKE THEM. THEY ARE THERE FOR SAFEKEEPING. I NEED TO KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH YOUR CHILDREN." AND AT THAT TIME HE SAID, "WELL, I'M GOING TO BE LEAVING OUT OF CHICAGO ON THE FIRST AVAILABLE FLIGHT. I WILL COME BACK TO LOS ANGELES. IS ARNELLE THERE?" AND I SAID, "YES, SHE IS." AND HE SAID, "LET ME TALK TO ARNELLE" WHICH I GAVE THE PHONE BACK TO ARNELLE.

Q: NOW, DURING -- DID HE ASK YOU WHEN THE MURDER OCCURRED?

A: I DIDN'T TELL HIM THAT SHE HAD BEEN MURDERED. I TOLD HIM SHE HAD BEEN KILLED.

Q: DID HE ASK YOU WHEN THAT HAD HAPPENED?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE ASK YOU HOW THAT HAPPENED?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THIS, YOUR HONOR. I OBJECT TO THIS FORM OF THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THIS IS A MAN WHO JUST --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WAIT.

MR. COCHRAN: YES. I OBJECT AND I WOULD LIKE TO OBJECT AT THE SIDE BAR.

THE COURT: YES, WITH THE REPORTER.

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

MS. CLARK: SIDE BAR NO. 4 ALREADY.

THE COURT: WHAT IS YOUR OBJECTION?

MR. COCHRAN: MY OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, THIS IS IMPROPER. THE -- COUNSEL IS NOW SEEKING TO ELICIT THAT HE DIDN'T ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW HIS WIFE HAD BEEN KILLED. HE JUST SAID THE MAN WAS UPSET AND JUST HEARD HIS WIFE WAS KILLED. AND IF THERE WAS AN OBJECTION FOR GROSS INSENSITIVITY, THAT WOULD BE IT, BUT I'M JUST OBJECTING TO THE FORM OF THESE QUESTION. THERE WAS A CONVERSATION WHEN SOMEBODY HAS JUST BEEN TOLD THAT HIS WIFE HAS BEEN KILLED AND THAT -- I THINK IT IS IMPROPER TO GO INTO, WELL, DID HE ASK YOU HOW SHE WAS KILLED? DID YOU ASK -- HE TOLD US WHAT THE CONVERSATION WAS. SO, YOU KNOW, HE CAN'T -- I THINK SHE IS TRYING TO CREATE A NEGATIVE INFERENCE BY ASKING THESE QUESTIONS. THE INVESTIGATOR GAVE US THE CONVERSATION ALREADY. SHE CAN SEE IF HE ASKED ANYTHING ELSE, BUT IT IS CLEAR THIS OFFICER IS GIVING HIS RECOLLECTION WHATEVER THE CONVERSATION WAS. MR. SIMPSON'S MAY NOT COMPORT WITH THAT TOTALLY, BUT I THINK IT IS UNFAIR TO ASK, WELL, DID HE ASK THIS, DID HE ASK HOW SHE DIED, DID HE ASK THAT, WHEN HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT HIS KIDS AND COMING BACK TO CALIFORNIA. I THINK SHE KNOWS WHEN THE CONVERSATION -- THAT IS NOT FAIR.

THE COURT: UH-HUH.

MR. COCHRAN: THE CIRCUMSTANCES --

MS. CLARK: THAT IS WHAT CROSS-EXAMINATION IS FOR. THERE IS NOTHING IMPERMISSIBLE IN THESE QUESTIONS. I'M ASKING HIM WHAT THE DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE WAS. THERE IS NOTHING IMPERMISSIBLE. IF COUNSEL WANTS TO CROSS-EXAMINE AND BRING OUT THE FACT THAT HE WAS UPSET, THAT IS WHAT IT IS FOR, AND COUNSEL KNOWS THAT VERY WELL. THIS IS AN EXPERIENCED TRIAL ATTORNEY HERE. THIS IS NOT SOME NOVICE. HE KNOWS THAT THESE QUESTIONS ARE PERMISSIBLE.

THE COURT: I DON'T NEED TO BE TOLD ABOUT THE LIFE EXPERIENCE OF THE LAWYERS HERE. I JUST WANT TO KNOW YOU FEEL THERE IS AN INSUFFICIENT LEGAL BASIS FOR THE OBJECTION, CORRECT?

MS. CLARK: THAT'S RIGHT.

THE COURT: THANK YOU. THE OBJECTION IS OVERRULED.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PROCEED.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: DID MR. SIMPSON ASK YOU HOW SHE WAS KILLED?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE ASK YOU WHEN SHE WAS KILLED?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE ASK YOU IF YOU HAD ANY IDEA WHO HAD DONE IT?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE ASK YOU WHERE IT HAD OCCURRED?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE ASK YOU ANYTHING ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCE OF HOW HIS EX-WIFE HAD BEEN KILLED?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE PROCEED TO SPEAK WITH ARNELLE AND GIVE HER INSTRUCTIONS ABOUT THE CHILDREN?

MR. COCHRAN: HOW WOULD HE KNOW, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SORRY. DID ARNELLE HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM AFTER YOU SPOKE TO HIM?

A: I HANDED THE PHONE BACK TO HER AND I ASSUME SHE TALKED TO HIM. I DIDN'T LISTEN TO IT.

Q: DURING THE TIME THAT YOU WERE SPEAKING TO THE DEFENDANT, DO YOU KNOW OR COULD YOU SEE WHERE ARNELLE WAS?

A: YES. SHE WAS STANDING DIRECTLY BEHIND ME AND LISTENING TO MY CONVERSATION. TOM LANGE WAS ALSO INFORMING HER OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED AND SHE BECAME VERY HYSTERICAL -- NOT HYSTERICAL, BUT VERY UPSET.

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU HANDED THE PHONE TO ARNELLE, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THEY KEPT TALKING TO ARNELLE AND I BELIEVE SHE WANTED TO MAKE A PHONE CALL TO A MAN THAT SHE ONLY DESCRIBED AS A.C., WHICH SHE DID, AND THEN I WALKED OUT OF THE KITCHEN.

Q: WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: I JUST WENT OVER TO A DOORWAY THAT LED OUT TO THE FRONT OF THE RESIDENCE. IT WAS KIND OF A -- I DON'T KNOW -- PATIO TYPE -- WELL, IT IS OFF THE KITCHEN, LEADS OUT TO THE ROCKINGHAM GATE, TOWARD THE ROCKINGHAM GATE.

Q: AND WHAT WERE YOU DOING OUT THERE?

A: JUST STANDING THERE. TOM LANGE WAS BASICALLY TALKING TO ARNELLE AND THERE WAS NOTHING LEFT FOR ME TO DO, NOTHING FOR ME TO DO AT THAT TIME.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I WAS APPROACHED BY MARK FUHRMAN, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHO WALKED UP TO ME AND SAID --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO WHAT HE SAID; HEARSAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN TELL YOU SOMETHING?

A: YES, HE DID.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THIS WOULD GO TO EXPLAIN SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT.

MR. COCHRAN: HEARSAY, YOUR HONOR. TELLS US WHAT HAPPENED.

THE COURT: I THINK YOU CAN HANDLE THIS WITHOUT DOING THAT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: AFTER HE TOLD YOU THAT, WHATEVER HE DID, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I FOLLOWED HIM.

Q: OKAY. AND BASED ON WHAT HE TOLD YOU, WHY DID YOU FOLLOW HIM?

A: HE WANTED TO SHOW ME SOMETHING.

Q: WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: HE TOOK ME AROUND TO THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE, TO A WALKWAY ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE THAT RAN EAST BEHIND THE RESIDENCE. WE WALKED BACK THERE FOR A CONSIDERABLE DISTANCE UNTIL WE GOT TO A CERTAIN POINT AND THEN HE STOPPED AND HE POINTED OUT AN OBJECT TO ME.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO PUT ON THE ELMO A DIAGRAM THAT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED AND I'M GOING TO ASK THAT THIS BE MARKED AS THE "A" VERSION OF THAT.

THE COURT: THIS WOULD BE -- HAVE YOU ALREADY USED THE DIAGRAM?

MS. CLARK: I HAVE, YOUR HONOR. THE DIAGRAM, 66.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 66-A. YOU WANT THE ELMO VERSION?

MS. CLARK: YES, THANK YOU.

THE COURT: MISS ROBERTSON, DO WE HAVE THAT?

THE CLERK: YES.

(PEO'S 66-A FOR ID = DIAGRAM)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT, SIR. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE DIAGRAM THAT WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 66?

A: YES.

Q: AND CAN YOU SEE THE AREA THAT YOU HAVE TOLD US YOU JUST WALKED DOWN TO FOLLOW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU USE THE POINTER TO POINT THAT OUT FOR US?

A: I CAME OUT OF THE RESIDENCE, WALKED AROUND THE GARAGE, DOWN THIS LONG WALKWAY AND WENT BACK TO HERE, (INDICATING), TO WHERE THERE WAS AN AIR CONDITIONING UNIT, AND THAT IS WHERE HE POINTED OUT AN OBJECT TO ME.

Q: OKAY. WOULD YOU PLEASE, IF YOU COULD, LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR, SIR, AND DIRECT THE POINTER TO SHOW US WHERE YOU EXITED THE RESIDENCE AND WHAT YOUR PATH WAS?

A: OKAY. YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK UP TO WHERE THE BREAKFAST AREA IS.

Q: BREAKFAST AREA?

A: THAT IS WHERE WE EXITED THAT RESIDENCE, (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. AND THEN YOU WENT OUT, YOU SAID, INTO THE DRIVEWAY?

A: YES.

Q: AND AROUND THE GARAGE?

A: YES.

Q: TELL US WHERE YOU WENT NEXT.

A: DOWN THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GARAGE EASTBOUND ALL THE WAY BACK. CONTINUE WALKING. CONTINUING TO FARTHER.

THE COURT: WELL, WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM HERE BECAUSE OUR --

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: IF I MAY RESIZE A LITTLE.

THE WITNESS: I WALKED STRAIGHTER THAN THAT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: WHY DON'T WE TRY THAT AGAIN. OKAY?

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: SURE.

THE COURT: HOW MANY TIMES DOES HE CRASH INTO THE WALL? RIGHT?

THE WITNESS: JUST THE ONE TIME IN THE GARAGE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND YOU TELL THE POINTER WHEN TO STOP.

A: RIGHT ABOUT THERE, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: IF THIS COULD BE 66-A, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: YES.

MS. CLARK: AND COULD WE HAVE THE INITIALS "R.P." ON THAT.

Q: COULD YOU SIR, DESCRIBE FOR US THE CONDITION OF THE WALKWAY, THAT SOUTH WALKWAY THAT YOUR PATH HAS BEEN TRACED ON?

A: WELL, IT IS A CONCRETE WALKWAY. IT IS QUITE NARROW. IT IS PROBABLY AT SOME POINT ONLY A COUPLE OF FEET WIDE, SOME PLACES SEVERAL MORE FEET WIDE, BUT IT HAS A LOT OF DEBRIS, LEAVES AND THINGS ON THE WALKWAY AS YOU WALK PAST. THERE IS A LOT OF OVERHANGING SHRUBBERY THAT HANGS FROM THE GATE OR THE FENCE THAT IS JUST TO YOUR RIGHT AS YOU ARE WALKING DOWN THAT HANGS DOWN AND SOME OF IT ALMOST TOUCHES THE HOUSE.

Q: AND THE WALKWAY ITSELF, SIR, WAS IT CLEAN AND SWEPT WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN THERE THAT MORNING ON JUNE 13TH?

A: NO, IT WAS NOT.

Q: WHAT WAS THE CONDITION?

A: AS I SAID, IT HAD LEAVES AND TWIGS AND DIRT AND OTHER THINGS THAT WERE BACK IN THERE.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE ANOTHER BOARD THAT HAS --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 69. 68.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 68, BOARD WITH FOUR PHOTOS, WITHOUT A, B AND C --

MS. CLARK: I DID ASK FOR IT, BUT THEY WILL ALL BE DONE, YOUR HONOR. I'M SORRY.

THE COURT: SORRY. JUST MAKES IT EASIER FOR ALL OF US.

MS. CLARK: IT DOES. IT DOES.

(PEO'S 68 FOR ID = POSTERBOARD W/4 PHOTOS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ARE YOU LOOKING AT THOSE, SIR?

A: YES, I AM.

MS. CLARK: THEY WILL BE LABELED FROM LEFT TO RIGHT AT THE TOP A AND B, LEFT TO RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM, C AND D.

Q: WHAT IS THE LOCATION SHOWN IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: THIS IS THE WALKWAY TO THE SOUTH OF THE ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS THAT I PREVIOUSLY STATED THAT I HAD WALKED DOWN.

Q: AND DOES THAT APPEAR TO ACCURATELY DEPICT THE CONDITION THAT YOU FOUND THE WALKWAY IN THAT MORNING?

A: YES, IT DOES.

Q: IN PHOTOGRAPH A, LET'S PUT IT UP ON THE SCREEN.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 2, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR. DO YOU SEE THAT BOX HANGING OUT OF THE WALL THERE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT IS THAT?

A: IT IS AN AIR CONDITIONING UNIT.

Q: OKAY. AND WAS THAT UNIT FOR KATO KAELIN'S ROOM?

A: I WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME THAT IS FOR KATO KAELIN'S ROOM, YES.

Q: DID YOU EVER GO INTO HIS ROOM?

A: NO.

MS. CLARK: NOW --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND PHOTOGRAPH B, DID YOU SEE THAT AREA OF THE GROUND, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT THE CONDITION IN WHICH YOU FOUND IT ON JUNE THE 13TH?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: C.

Q: AND PHOTOGRAPH C?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT THE POSITION AND THE CONDITION IN WHICH YOU FOUND THE GLOVE?

A: THAT IS THE ITEM THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD POINTED OUT TO ME, YES.

Q: WHEN WERE YOU -- AS YOU PROCEEDED DOWN THE WALKWAY, SIR, DO YOU RECALL WHETHER THERE WERE ANY GATES THAT YOU -- ANY GATES THAT YOU HAD TO WALK THROUGH?

A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS TWO GATES THAT WE HAD TO WALK THROUGH THAT I REMEMBER. THERE MAY BE MORE.

Q: WERE EITHER ONE OF THEM -- WAS THERE A LOCK ON EITHER ONE OF THEM OR WERE THEY OPENED?

A: THEY WERE OPENED.

Q: WHEN YOU WALKED THROUGH -- GO BACK TO THE DIAGRAM IF YOU DON'T MIND. WHEN YOU WALKED THROUGH THE FIRST GATE, SIR, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE GLOVE ON THE WALKWAY?

A: NO.

Q: WHEN YOU WALKED THROUGH THE SECOND GATE, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE GLOVE ON THE WALKWAY?

A: NO.

Q: HOW CLOSE TO THE GLOVE DID YOU GET BEFORE YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE IT?

A: QUITE A WAYS -- I MEAN, VERY CLOSE TO IT. IT WAS -- IT WAS LIGHT OUTSIDE, BUT IT WAS STILL DARK IN THAT AREA BECAUSE OF THE OVERHANGING SHRUBBERY. BASICALLY, I HAD NEVER SEEN THIS ITEM BEFORE, SO I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE TO LOOK.

Q: AND SO HOW CLOSE DID YOU HAVE TO GET TO IT BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY SAW IT?

A: I GOT TO IT WITHIN ABOUT POSSIBLY THREE OR FOUR FEET.

Q: DID YOU TOUCH IT?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHEN YOU GOT TO WITHIN THREE OR FOUR FEET OF IT, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I STOOD THERE AND SHINED A FLASHLIGHT ON IT AND OBSERVED WHAT IT APPEARED TO BE AND THEN TOLD MARK -- I SAYS, "LET'S GO BACK TO THE HOUSE AND INFORM VANNATTER AND LANGE OF THIS."

Q: DID YOU THINK THAT WAS SIGNIFICANT, THAT GLOVE?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THAT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: WELL, IT APPEARED TO BE SOME -- I'M SORRY.

MR. COCHRAN: NONRESPONSIVE.

THE COURT: YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION YES OR NO. DID IT APPEAR TO YOU TO BE SIGNIFICANT?

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WHY WAS IT SIGNIFICANT TO YOU?

A: IT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS ALSO THE SAME TYPE OF GLOVE THAT WE HAD SEEN AT THE BUNDY LOCATION.

Q: DID YOU EVER GO BACK FARTHER THAN THAT GLOVE TO SEE WHAT WAS BEHIND THE GUEST UNITS IN THAT HOUSE?

A: NO.

Q: AFTER YOU GOT WITHIN THREE TO FOUR FEET OF THE GLOVE, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: WALKED AROUND -- TURNED AROUND AND WENT BACK INTO THE HOUSE.

Q: AND HOW DID YOU ENTER THE HOUSE?

A: THROUGH THE SAME DOOR I HAD EXITED.

Q: THAT BREAKFAST AREA?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU GIVE SOME INSTRUCTION TO MARK FUHRMAN?

A: HE CAME WITH ME.

Q: RIGHT. AFTER SEEING THE GLOVE, DID YOU GIVE HIM SOME INSTRUCTION?

A: I GAVE HIM SOME INSTRUCTIONS THAT WE WERE TO NOTIFY VANNATTER AND LANGE OF WHAT HE HAD FOUND AND WHAT HE HAD SHOWED ME.

Q: AND SO THEN DID BOTH YOU AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GO BACK INTO THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN I BELIEVE WALKED UP TO DETECTIVE VANNATTER FIRST AND TOLD HIM WHAT HE HAD BASICALLY TOLD ME, AND THEN VANNATTER -- I MEAN, YEAH, VANNATTER AND FUHRMAN THEN LEFT AND WENT TO THE SAME -- LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE GOING TO GO TO THE SAME LOCATION THAT I HAD, BUT I DID NOT GO WITH THEM.

Q: WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: STAYED WHERE I WAS AT, RIGHT BY THE KITCHEN DOOR, KITCHEN BREAKFAST DOOR.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: I STAYED THERE. A SHORT TIME LATER VANNATTER AND FUHRMAN CAME BACK AND THEY HAD A CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE LANGE AND THEN LANGE AND FUHRMAN TOOK OFF THE SAME DIRECTION THAT WE HAD GONE BEFORE, BUT I DIDN'T GO WITH THEM AGAIN.

Q: DID YOU STAY IN FRONT WITH DETECTIVE VANNATTER?

A: I DON'T KNOW IF VANNATTER WAS WITH ME THE WHOLE TIME. I WAS JUST BASICALLY STANDING AROUND, YOU KNOW, TALKING TO PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT TIMES, BUT NOT DOING ANYTHING.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU -- WHERE WERE YOU STANDING AROUND IN? WHAT AREA?

A: IN THAT BREAKFAST AREA, THE FRONT PART OF THE HOUSE, FRONT PART OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q: OKAY.

A: THAT BREAKFAST AREA.

Q: NOW, THIS WAS NOT YOUR CASE ANY MORE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: NOT MY CASE AT ALL.

Q: SO WHY WERE YOU STILL THERE?

A: BECAUSE MY PARTNER, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WAS STILL SHOWING VANNATTER AND LANGE CERTAIN ITEMS THAT HE HAD FOUND AND WE HAD NOT LEFT THE LOCATION YET FROM WHEN WE ARRIVED.

Q: NOW, LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING, SIR. YOU HAD SAID EARLIER THAT THE WAY YOU NEED TO MAKE NOTIFICATION IS IN PERSON. THAT IS THE WAY THAT IS PREFERRED; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: IF IT IS PRACTICAL YOU DO IT IN PERSON, YES.

Q: BUT YOU DIDN'T WIND UP DOING IT THAT WAY, DID YOU?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHY NOT?

A: BECAUSE WE FOUND SOMEONE AT THE RESIDENCE THAT PUT US IN TOUCH WITH MR. SIMPSON. WE HAD ALREADY MADE CONTACT WITH MEMBERS OF HIS FAMILY, ARNELLE SIMPSON. IT WAS KIND OF A MUTE POINT TO SIT THERE AND SAY, NO, I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU ANYTHING AND LEAVE THE RESIDENCE. SO WE GOT AHOLD OF MR. SIMPSON AND INFORMED HIM OVER THE TELEPHONE, WHICH WASN'T THE EXACT WAY THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE DONE IT, BUT THAT IS THE WAY THE SITUATION PRESENTED ITSELF.

Q: WHAT DO YOU MEAN THAT IS THE WAY THE SITUATION PRESENTED ITSELF? WERE YOU CONCERNED THAT THE MEDIA WAS GOING TO FIND OUT BEFORE HIM?

MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. LET ME WITHDRAW THAT.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT? WHY DID YOU TELL HIM ON THE TELEPHONE?

A: AS I SAID, WHEN WE FIRST -- WHEN WE GOT THERE WE HAD ALREADY CONTACTED TWO PEOPLE AT THAT RESIDENCE. WE ALREADY TOLD THEM WE HAD AN EMERGENCY, WE WERE TRYING TO LOOK FOR HIM. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY INSENSITIVE TO JUST GO, I'M SORRY, HE IS NOT HERE, WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE. PEOPLE CAN FIND OUT LATER WHY WE WERE HERE. SHE SAID SHE COULD GET AHOLD OF HER FATHER, SO WE GOT AHOLD OF THE FATHER AND GAVE HIM THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD TO GIVE HIM. NOT THAT WE WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE GIVEN IT TO HIM IN PERSON HAD HE BEEN THERE, BUT HE WASN'T THERE IN PERSON, SO WE USED THE TELEPHONE.

Q: DURING YOUR PHONE CALL TO MR. SIMPSON CAN YOU TELL US WHERE DETECTIVE VANNATTER WAS, DID YOU KNOW?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: DID YOU EVER INFORM DETECTIVE VANNATTER OF WHAT CATHY RANDA TOLD YOU ABOUT THE WHEREABOUTS OF MR. SIMPSON?

A: I DON'T KNOW IF I TOLD VANNATTER. I TOLD LANGE BECAUSE LANGE WAS IN THE KITCHEN WITH ME WITH ARNELLE.

Q: HE WAS IN YOUR IMMEDIATE VICINITY?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AFTER DETECTIVE LANGE CAME BACK WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: THEY ASKED MARK FUHRMAN AND I TO GO BACK -- TOM LANGE DID, ASKED MARK FUHRMAN AND I TO GO BACK TO THE BUNDY LOCATION.

Q: AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE? WHAT WERE YOU GOING TO DO?

A: TOM HAD ASKED MARK TO GO BACK TO THE BUNDY LOCATION AND LOOK AT THE GLOVE AND THE BUNDY LOCATION AND GET ANOTHER LOOK AT IT AND SEE IF IT WAS IN FACT A MATCH TO THE ONE THAT WE HAD UP AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION.

Q: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: MARK FUHRMAN AND I LEFT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION AND DROVE BACK TO THE BUNDY LOCATION.

Q: SO YOU LEFT -- YOU WENT BACK IN YOUR CAR TOGETHER?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO THE BUNDY LOCATION, DID YOU SEE WHERE -- WHERE DID YOU GO? WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: WE PARKED OUR CAR. I SAW MARK FUHRMAN WALK OVER TO THE BUNDY LOCATION. HE WAS GOING TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE GLOVE. AND I SAW LIEUTENANT SPANGLER AND CAPTAIN DIAL AND SOME OTHER COMMAND STAFF STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE INTERSECTION AND THEY WERE LOOKING AT ME AND I WALKED OVER TO THEM TO GIVE THEM INFORMATION THAT I HAD RECEIVED OR WHAT HAD BEEN DONE IN THE LAST SO MANY -- IN THE LAST HOUR.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO THE BUNDY LOCATION WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: IT WAS ABOUT 6:30.

Q: YOU SAW HIM WALK OVER TOWARD THE LOCATION?

A: HE WALKED OVER TO THE CRIME SCENE LOCATION AND I WALKED OVER TO LIEUTENANT SPANGLER AND CAPTAIN DIAL TO INFORM THEM OF WHAT HAD BEEN TAKING PLACE, AND ALSO JOHN ROGERS.

Q: NOW, WAS THE CRIME SCENE STILL TAPED OFF?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE ANYONE WALKING ON THE FRONT WALKWAY THAT LEADS FROM THE SIDEWALK OF BUNDY TO THE FRONT STEPS OF THE CONDO?

A: NO, THERE WAS NO ONE WALKING AROUND.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, COULD WE CUT THE FEED, PLEASE?

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 55.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE PHOTOGRAPHERS ARE DIRECTED NOT TO ATTEMPT TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE SCREEN.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US WHO THAT IS POINTING TO THE EVIDENCE IN THAT PICTURE, SIR?

A: THAT IS DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN.

Q: IS THAT WHAT HE WAS WEARING ALL NIGHT THAT NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: THAT IS HOW HE WAS DRESSED?

A: YES.

Q: FROM THE TIME YOU ARRIVED AT BUNDY AT 2:10 A.M.?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, SAME QUESTIONS REGARDING MARK FUHRMAN ABOUT HIM NOT HAVING ANY JACKET ON.

THE COURT: OVERRULED, BECAUSE THERE WAS SOME OTHER TESTIMONY REGARDING CLOTHING IN THE INTERIM.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT WAS ANSWER THAT, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT HOW HE WAS DRESSED WHEN YOU ARRIVED AT 2:10 A.M.?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE LOCATION THAT HE IS POINTING TO, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT IS HE POINTING TO, SIR?

A: HE IS POINTING TO THE LOCATION WHERE THE GLOVE IS.

Q: AND IS THAT THE DIRECTION IN WHICH YOU SAW HIM LEAVING WHEN YOU TALKED TO LIEUTENANT SPANGLER?

A: YES. I DID NOT SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN.

THE COURT: THIS IS PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT?

MS. CLARK: 55.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 55.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AND AT SOME POINT WHILE YOU WERE THERE, AFTER YOU GOT TO BUNDY, DID ANOTHER DETECTIVE ARRIVE?

A: YES, TOM LANGE RETURNED.

Q: HOW LONG AFTER YOU GOT BACK TO BUNDY DID HE ARRIVE?

A: PROBABLY TEN OR FIFTEEN MINUTES.

Q: AND WHAT DID HE DO?

A: HE BEGAN TO DO HIS CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION OF THE BUNDY LOCATION.

Q: DID HE MAKE SOME REQUEST OF YOU, SIR?

A: YES, HE DID.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT REQUEST?

A: HE ASKED ME TO MAKE THE FIRST PHONE CALL TO THE CORONER'S OFFICE, TO GIVE THEM THE FIRST CALL.

Q: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, THE FIRST CALL?

A: IT IS A SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE WORKED WITH THE CORONER'S OFFICE WHERE THE FIRST CALL INFORMS THEM BASICALLY WHAT WE HAVE. IT IS NOT A CALL TO COME OUT TO THE LOCATION; IT IS JUST TO INFORM THEM OF WHAT WE HAVE SO THE CORONER'S OFFICE CAN MAKE PREPARATIONS THAT THEIR TRUCK OR ONE OF THEIR TECHNICIANS IS GOING TO BE NEEDED OVER IN THE WEST LOS ANGELES AREA SO THEY CAN HAVE MORE CONTROL OVER THEIR PERSONNEL TIMEWISE.

Q: I THINK YOU INDICATED EARLIER, SIR, THAT AROUND 3:00 A.M. YOU WANTED TO CALL THE CORONER BUT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER TOLD YOU NOT TO?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THIS HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE ALSO.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHY YOU WANTED TO MAKE THE FIRST CALL WHEN YOU ALREADY KNEW THE CASE WAS GOING OVER TO ANOTHER SET OF DETECTIVES AND NOT YOURSELF?

A: WELL, I WASN'T GOING TO REQUEST THE CORNER AT THE LOCATION. I WAS JUST GOING TO MAKE THE FIRST CALL NOTIFICATION OF THE CORONER INFORMING THEM WHAT WE HAD, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I DID AT 6:50. IT WAS STILL THE FIRST CALL.

Q: SO THEY WOULD BE READY WHEN THE FINAL DETECTIVE MADE THE CALL?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU MADE THE FIRST CALL NOTIFICATION FOR THEM TO PREPARE AT 6:50?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THERE A TRANSCRIPT PREPARED OF YOUR DISCUSSION WITH THE CORONER'S OFFICE THAT MORNING?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: AND HAVE YOU SEEN THAT?

A: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, COUNSEL ONLY.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS THE FIRST PAGE OF THE TRANSCRIPT, YOUR HONOR, PREPARED -- I BELIEVE A PORTION OF THIS WAS SHOWN TO THE JURY DURING MR. COCHRAN'S OPENING STATEMENT. I WOULD ASK THAT THIS PAGE BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 69.

THE COURT: 69.

(PEO'S 69 FOR ID = 1-PG TRANSCRIPT)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT YOU SEE THERE?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT -- DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE FIRST PAGE OF THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE CONVERSATION YOU HAD WITH THE CORONER'S OFFICE ON THE MORNING OF JUNE THE 13TH?

A: YES.

Q: IN THE VERY FIRST PASSAGE WHERE YOU ARE SPEAKING, SIR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PASSAGE WHERE YOU TELL THEM YOU HAVE A DOUBLE HOMICIDE?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN THAT FIRST PASSAGE WHAT -- DO YOU RECALL HAVING THAT CONVERSATION?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO CONVEY TO THEM IN THAT FIRST RESPONSE -- THAT FIRST --

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. THAT SPEAKS FOR HIMSELF. NOT WHAT HE IS TRYING TO CONVEY. WE HAVE THE WORDS UP THERE WITH A TAPE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MS. CLARK: MAY WE APPROACH? THIS IS FOUNDATIONAL, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. AREN'T WE SORT OF LEAPING AHEAD, THOUGH? AREN'T YOU GOING TO HAVE HIM GO THROUGH THE CONVERSATION AND SAY DID YOU SAY THIS? YES. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? WHAT IS FIRST ROLL? WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE PRESS? WHAT ARE ANTS? I MEAN, AREN'T WE SORT OF AHEAD OF OURSELVES HERE?

MS. CLARK: WHAT DO YOU MEAN "AHEAD OF OURSELVES"?

THE COURT: YOU HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH THE CONVERSATION WITH THE DETECTIVE YET, SO TO PUT UP A TRANSCRIPT AND SAY WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS, I MEAN, THAT IS A VERY VAGUE QUESTION. IT DOESN'T GO TO ANY SPECIFICS, WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THIS? I MEAN, THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE ASKED.

MS. CLARK: YEAH.

THE COURT: DON'T WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THE CONVERSATION? IF THERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS AMBIGUOUS OR SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION, THEN DON'T WE HAVE TO HAVE A QUESTION.

MS. CLARK: IT WOULD PROBABLY BE A VERY GOOD IDEA.

MR. COCHRAN: SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: I WANT THIS TO BE DONE WITH. AS I INDICATED TO THE COURT EARLIER, I AM TRYING TO SPEED IT UP. YOU ARE RIGHT.

THE COURT: THE PROBLEM IS, YOU KNOW, NOT GOING BY THE RULES HERE. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

MR. COCHRAN: SURE.

THE COURT: ISN'T THAT THE ISSUE?

MS. CLARK: YES, IT IS.

MR. COCHRAN: SHE WANTS THIS TO BE DONE WITH, YOUR HONOR, SHE CAN JUST SAY SIMPLY I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

MS. CLARK: EXCEPT THAT THE PEOPLE NEED TO PROVE THEIR CASE AND PUT ON EVIDENCE AS MUCH AS I KNOW COUNSEL DOESN'T WANT TO DO THAT.

THE COURT: OKAY.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, DO YOU WANT TO WITHDRAW THE QUESTION?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

THE COURT: WITHDRAW THE QUESTION?

MS. CLARK: I WITHDRAW THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PROCEED.

MS. CLARK: I AM GOING TO TRY TO ASK A BETTER ONE. COULD WE -- ALL RIGHT.

Q: LET'S LOOK AT THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH, SIR.

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAVE READ IT?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE WORDS IN THAT PARAGRAPH?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: "I GOT A DOUBLE HOMICIDE THAT WE WANT TO LET YOU KNOW ABOUT. IT IS GOING TO BE -- THE PRESS IS GOING TO BE CRAWLING ON US LIKE ANTS WHEN THEY FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON." WERE THEY YOUR WORDS?

A: YES. YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE IT VERY HARD FOR ME TO GO TO THE PRESS AGAIN, AREN'T YOU?

THE COURT: KIND BY CALLING THEM ANTS.

MS. CLARK: THEY HAVE BEEN CALLED WORSE. JACKALS, I THINK.

THE WITNESS: I WILL STAY WITH ANTS.

MS. CLARK: WE WILL STAY WITH ANTS.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU MEANT BY THAT, SIR?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I THINK THE WORDS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. WE ALL UNDERSTAND ENGLISH.

THE COURT: I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO INTERPRET THIS LINE.

MS. CLARK: BUT I DO -- LET'S GO TO THE NEXT ONE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT.

Q: DO YOU RECOGNIZE -- FIRST READ THAT PARAGRAPH TO YOURSELF, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECOGNIZE THOSE WORDS?

MR. COCHRAN: ONE PROBLEM. THE EXHIBIT SHOULD NOT HAVE UNDERLINING ON THEM WHICH COUNSEL HAS ON THIS ONE.

THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE AN UNMARKED COPY?

MS. CLARK: LET ME LOOK, YOUR HONOR.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: I THINK I HAVE ANOTHER ONE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S TAKE THAT ONE DOWN, MR. FAIRTLOUGH.

MS. CLARK: THESE ARE THE ONLY ONES WE HAVE, YOUR HONOR? THIS IS A VERY FAINT LINE.

MR. COCHRAN: THERE ARE LINES THROUGH IT, YOUR HONOR. FAINT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

MS. CLARK: THAT IS THE WAY IT CAME TO US, YOUR HONOR. THERE IS NOTHING IMPROPER BY A LINE.

THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. YOU DON'T HAVE A CLEAN COPY OF THAT DOCUMENT?

MS. CLARK: THIS IS THE WAY WE GOT THEM.

MR. COCHRAN: NO, YOUR HONOR. LET ME -- THAT IS NOT TRUE. WE HAVE A CLEAN COPY.

THE COURT: HOLD ON. HOLD ON.

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL BE GLAD TO GIVE HER A CLEAN COPY.

MS. CLARK: IT IS TRUE THAT THESE ARE THE ONLY ONES WE HAVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. COUNSEL, WHEN I SAY, "WAIT," WAIT MEANS STOP. ALL RIGHT. HOW MANY PAGES IS THAT?

MR. COCHRAN: ALTOGETHER, YOUR HONOR -- THE ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT, YOUR HONOR, IS SEVEN WITH A MESSAGE, EIGHT PAGES ALTOGETHER.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, HOW MUCH OF THIS TRANSCRIPT ARE YOU PREPARING TO PROCEED WITH?

MS. CLARK: I BELIEVE IT IS ONLY THE FIRST PAGE.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, DO YOU --

MS. CLARK: MAY I ASK A FAVOR, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: I WAS GOING TO ASK MY CLERK TO MAKE A CLEAN PHOTOCOPY FOR BOTH SIDES.

THE COURT: SHE CAN HAVE THAT.

MR. COCHRAN: SHE CAN HAVE THAT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WE DON'T NEED THE COMMENTS ON EITHER SIDE.

MS. CLARK: WHAT I ASK, YOUR HONOR, IS COULD WE PASS THESE OUT TO THE JURY, THIS PAGE?

THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE THE TAPE TO PLAY?

MS. CLARK: THE TAPE?

THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE THE TAPE OF THIS CONVERSATION?

MS. CLARK: I DON'T HAVE AN AUDIO TAPE, BUT IF WE COULD PASS THE PAGE OUT TO THE JURY.

THE COURT: I MEAN, THIS IS WHY WE HAVE THIS SYSTEM HERE.

MS. CLARK: YOU DON'T WANT --

THE COURT: LET'S USE THE ELMO. IF THE JURORS TELL ME THEY CAN'T READ IT --

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 1, PLEASE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 1492, CAN YOU READ THAT? JUROR 1492: YES.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IN THIS SECOND PARAGRAPH YOU INDICATED: "THIS IS THE FIRST CALL AND WE GOT A LOT OF WORK TO DO YET, BUT WE NEED TO GET YOU GUYS ROLLING OUT HERE SO WE CAN GET THESE BODIES, WHICH ARE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET, OUT HERE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE."

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU RECALL SAYING THAT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, FIRST OF ALL, TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN -- WHEN YOU SAY "THIS IS THE FIRST CALL," WHAT DOES THAT?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE ALREADY COVERED THIS. SHE HAS BEEN OVER THIS ALREADY, WHAT THE FIRST CALL IS, AND THIS DOCUMENTS SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. IS THIS FIRST CALL YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU INDICATE YOU HAVE GOT A LOT OF WORK TO DO YET?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

A: WELL, TOM LANGE HAD JUST RETURNED TO THAT CRIME SCENE AND AS OF THAT TIME VERY, VERY LITTLE CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION HAD BEEN DONE. HE HADN'T EVEN BEGUN TO REALLY EVALUATE THE CRIME SCENE THAT HE HAD, SO HE DID HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO YET.

Q: WHAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING BEFORE, EARLIER IN YOUR TESTIMONY, WHEN YOU SAID YOU HAVE TO GET WORK DONE BEFORE YOU GET THE CORONER OUT?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. THIS IS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECALL REFERRING TO THAT SITUATION EARLIER IN YOUR TESTIMONY?

A: YES.

Q: AND IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO HERE?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN YOU SAID, "THESE BODIES WHICH ARE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET," WERE YOU MAKING A COMMENT ABOUT THE VISIBILITY AT THAT TIME OF DAY, SIR?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THIS.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO CONVEY WITH RESPECT TO THAT?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR -- I THINK THAT IS IMPROPER, YOUR HONOR, WHAT HE IS TRYING TO CONVEY. THE WORDS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

THE COURT: HOLD ON. WHAT PROBLEM IS CREATED BY BODIES BEING VISIBLE TO THE STREET?

THE WITNESS: THEY ARE VIEWED TO THE PUBLIC, THE PUBLIC CAN SEE THEM, WE WOULD JUST AS SOON GET THEM, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, OUT OF THE STREET.

THE COURT: COMMON DECENCY?

THE WITNESS: COMMON DECENSY TO THE FAMILIES, TO THE VICTIM.

THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND THEY WERE -- THEY WERE VISIBLE AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, SIR?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: TO YOU?

A: YES.

Q: WAS IT LIGHT OUT BY THEN?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAY "WE," WHO ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

A: I WAS MAKING THIS PHONE CALL FOR TOM LANGE, SO I WAS REFERRING TO "WE" AS IN TOM AND I.

Q: AND YOU INDICATED "AS SOON AS POSSIBLE"?

A: WELL, THAT IS WHY WE WERE MAKING THE FIRST CALL, TO GET THEM READY TO GO. WE WOULD MAKE OUR SECOND CALL WHEN WE WANTED THEM AND THEY WOULD BE READY TO DO IT AND WE COULD GET IT TAKEN CARE OF AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

MS. CLARK: NEXT PARAGRAPH.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IN THIS PARAGRAPH, IF YOU CAN READ IT, YOU STATED, "WE ARE KIND -- WE KIND OF" --

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, DOES SHE HAVE TO READ THIS? WE CAN ALL READ THIS. YOUR HONOR, IT IS IMPROPER. IT IS NOT A QUESTION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED, COUNSEL.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: "KIND OF NOT FOLLOWING PROCEDURE BUT WE ARE KIND OF ASKING A FAVOR AND YOU KNOW KIND OF WORK A LITTLE BIT ON THIS ONE."

A: YES.

Q: WHAT PROCEDURE ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

A: WELL, I'M REFERRING TO A PROCEDURE OR POLICY OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT WHERE IF I'M THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER OR THE SENIOR OFFICER AT A SCENE OF A MAJOR UNUSUAL OCCURRENCE OR A MAJOR NEWS MEDIA EVENT, IT IS MY OBLIGATION TO NOTIFY THE PRESS RELATIONS OFFICER OR THE MEDIA ABOUT THE SITUATION THAT IS GOING ON, AND I CHOSE NOT TO DO THAT.

Q: AND IS THERE SOMETHING IN YOUR MANUAL ACTUALLY THAT SAYS YOU ARE REQUIRED OR THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER IS REQUIRED TO NOTIFY THE MEDIA WHEN A HIGH-PROFILE CASE OCCURS?

A: IT TALKS ABOUT I BELIEVE THE SENIOR OFFICER AT THE SCENE AND AT THE TIME I WAS MAKING THE PHONE CALL I WAS THE SENIOR OFFICER AT THE SCENE FROM WEST L.A.

Q: DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THAT MANUAL? DID YOU BRING THAT WITH YOU, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU COULD LOCATE IT IN THIS MANUAL?

A: YES.

Q: WILL YOU PLEASE DO THAT.

THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT MISS CLARK IS HANDING --

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT I AM HANDING HIM A BOOK THAT STATES ON THE FRONT OF IT "1994/1995, MANUAL OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT."

Q: IS THIS THE MANUAL YOU WERE REFERRING TO, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: GO AHEAD AND LOCATE THAT FOR US, IF YOU WOULD.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

THE COURT: AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, WHAT SECTION ARE YOU MAKING REFERENCE TO?

THE WITNESS: I'M LOOKING IN VOLUME 1, 420.40.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THAT?

MR. COCHRAN: NO. MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE CLERK MAKE A PHOTOCOPY OF THAT, COUNSEL?

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, WHY DON'T YOU JUST HAND THAT TO ME, PLEASE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: THE PART THAT IS FLAGGED, YOUR HONOR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MADAM COURT REPORTER, WOULD THIS BE A GOOD MOMENT TO SWITCH? REPORTER OLSON: SURE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MISS MOXHAM, ARE YOU READY?

THE COURT REPORTER: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: COUNSEL, YOU HAVE TO GIVE A COPY TO THE PEOPLE.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. YOUR HONOR, IF I MIGHT, I WOULD LIKE TO PUT THIS ON THE SCREEN.

THE COURT: ON THE ELMO?

MS. CLARK: ON THE ELMO.

THE COURT: FINE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. YOU INDICATED THAT IN YOUR CONVERSATION WITH THE CORONER, THERE WAS --

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THIS. SHE'S ABOUT TO ASK AN IMPROPER QUESTION.

MS. CLARK: IT'S A FOUNDATIONAL.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: THAT YOU WERE KIND OF NOT FOLLOWING THE PROCEDURE. NOW, YOU WANT TO EXPLAIN TO US THE PROCEDURE YOU WERE REFERRING TO?

A: YOU WANT ME TO READ IT?

Q: SURE.

A: "RESPONSIBILITY FOR RELEASE OF INFORMATION. "WHEN AN EVENT BEING INVESTIGATED IS SUCH A SPECTACULAR OR UNUSUAL NATURE AS TO STIMULATE GENERAL COMMUNITY INTEREST, THE NEWS MEDIA WILL BE NOTIFIED. NORMALLY IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF AN AREA OR DIVISION COMMANDING OFFICER OR THE SENIOR OFFICER AT THE SCENE TO MAKE SUCH NOTIFICATIONS. HOWEVER, WHEN THERE IS AN EVENT OF MAJOR PROPORTIONS, THE PRESS RELATIONS OFFICER WILL ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RELEASE OF INFORMATION."

Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS THE PROCEDURE YOU WERE REFERRING TO IN YOUR CONVERSATION WITH THE CORONER THAT MORNING?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. I OBJECT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: YES.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU WANT TO MARK THAT PORTION AS A PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT, PEOPLE'S 70?

MS. CLARK: I SHOULD. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. (PEO'S 70 FOR ID = REL. OF INFO. PROC.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. THEN WHAT DID YOU MEAN YOU WERE KIND OF ASKING A FAVOR AND KIND OF WORK A LITTLE BIT ON THIS ONE?

A: WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP THIS FROM BECOMING A NEWS MEDIA EVENT FOR AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. SO WE WERE ASKING THE CORONER'S OFFICE TO GO ALONG WITH US AND NOT MAKE ANY NOTIFICATIONS THEMSELVES TO THE NEWS MEDIA.

Q: WAS IT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE NOTIFICATION TO THE NEWS MEDIA?

A: I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEIR POLICY IS OR WHAT THEIR PROCEDURES ARE I WAS JUST ASKING FOR THEIR COOPERATION.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. HE HAS NO IDEA.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WILL STAND.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. I COULDN'T HEAR THE LAST PART OF THE ANSWER. YOU WERE WHAT?

A: I WAS JUST ASKING THEM TO COOPERATE WITH OUR -- WITH MY REQUEST. I DID NOT KNOW WHAT THEIR PROCEDURES WERE, IF THEY HAD TO MAKE A NOTIFICATION THEMSELVES. I WAS ASKING THEM TO COOPERATE WAS WHAT I WAS ASKING THEM TO DO.

Q: UNDER ORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES, WHAT SHOULD YOU HAVE DONE AS -- IN THIS SITUATION, YOU INDICATED TO US THAT YOU CALLED THE CORONER, YOU SAID, "LOOK, I DON'T WANT TO CALL THE MEDIA, THEY'RE GOING TO BE ALL OVER US," AND SO YOU DIDN'T, YOU DIDN'T NOTIFY THE MEDIA. UNDER ORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE IF YOU WERE TO FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE THAT YOU WERE TRYING NOT TO FOLLOW HERE?

A: YOU'RE TRYING TO GET ME IN TROUBLE, AREN'T YOU? WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE --

MR. COCHRAN: MOVE TO STRIKE THAT LAST PART.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE WAS, I SHOULD HAVE MADE A NOTIFICATION TO DETECTIVE HEADQUARTERS, WHICH IS OPEN 24 HOURS A DAY, INFORM THEM OF THE EVENT THAT WE HAD, THE POSSIBLE NEWS MEDIA EVENT THIS WOULD CREATE AND THEY IN TURN WOULD HAVE CALLED PRESS RELATIONS PEOPLE AT HOME. PRESS RELATIONS PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED, THEY WOULD HAVE COME OUT TO THE SCENE AND THEY WOULD HAVE HANDLED THE PRESS. THAT'S WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THE PRESS RELATIONS OFFICER, THAT WAS DEPUTY CHIEF DAVE GASCON?

A: AT THAT TIME, YES.

Q: HE'S DEPUTY CHIEF NOW. HE WASN'T THEN.

A: HE WAS COMMANDER THEN.

Q: AND WOULD IT HAVE BEEN HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO NOTIFY THE PRESS OF THE -- OF THIS CASE?

A: I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HIS RESPONSIBILITIES AS PRESS RELATIONS WOULD HAVE BEEN AND WHO HE WOULD HAVE NOTIFIED AND WHEN.

Q: WHAT WAS YOUR CONCERN THEN? WHY DIDN'T YOU WANT TO CALL HIM?

A: WELL, I DIDN'T WANT TO NOT CALL HIM ONLY. I JUST DID NOT WANT THE PRESS NOTIFIED. IT WAS A -- SEVERAL ITEMS THAT HAD COME INTO PLAY AT THAT TIME. AS THE WEST L.A. COORDINATOR OF THE HOMICIDE UNIT, I DON'T ACTUALLY WORK THE HOMICIDES. I'M A PERIPHERAL PERSON OUT THERE. I HAVE SERGEANTS WALKING UP TO ME AND LIEUTENANTS WALKING UP TO ME GOING, "HOW LONG ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP MY PEOPLE HERE? WE HAVE OTHER CALLS FOR SERVICE. THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE THAT NEED THE POLICE OUT HERE." THE LONGER I KEPT THAT UNIT THERE, THE LESS TIME THEY WOULD BE OUT ON DOING PATROL FUNCTIONS. THE CHANGE OF WATCH WAS COMING DOWN AT 7:00 O'CLOCK, WHICH MEANT MORNING WATCH WAS JUST GETTING RELIEVED OF DUTY AND DAY WATCH WAS COMING TO WORK. ALL THE CARS THAT WERE AT WEST L.A. OUT IN THE FIELD AT THE CRIME SCENE NEEDED TO GO BACK TO WEST LOS ANGELES TO BE GIVEN TO THE DAY WATCH UNIT SO THE DAY WATCH UNITS COULD COME TO WORK. SO I HAD A CHANGE OF WATCH GOING ON.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION TO THIS NARRATIVE. I OBJECT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SO -- SO WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM THEN; A MANPOWER PROBLEM?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM THAT YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT?

A: I WAS CONCERNED OF A RESOURCE PROBLEM AT TWO DIFFERENT CRIME SCENES IN THE SAME DIVISION WITH MANPOWER TO ADEQUATELY PROTECT BOTH CRIME SCENES AND ALSO DO WHATEVER OTHER FUNCTIONS WEST LOS ANGELES COMMUNITY NEEDED.

Q: AND HOW WOULD THE PRESS PRESENCE HAVE COMPLICATED THAT?

A: WE WOULD HAVE NEEDED MORE PRESS OR MORE POLICE OFFICERS TO CORNER OFF THE AREAS ONCE THE PRESS GOT THERE AS WE ALL FOUND OUT LATER ON.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED LATER ON?

A: WE HAD SEVERAL MEDIA PERSONNEL SHOW UP AND CRAWLING AROUND US.

Q: AND WHEN WAS THAT IN TERMS OF TIME? CAN YOU RECALL?

A: UH, THE PRESS STARTED SHOWING UP I BELIEVE 7:30, 8:00 O'CLOCK IS WHEN THEY STARTED SHOWING UP AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT WAS JUST MASSIVE AFTER THAT.

Q: UH-HUH. AND IT JUST CONTINUED TO BUILD AFTER ABOUT 8:00 O'CLOCK?

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AFTER 8:00 O'CLOCK -- THE FIRST PRESS YOU THOUGHT CAME ABOUT WHAT TIME?

A: WELL, I WASN'T PAYING EXACTLY ATTENTION TO IT. I WOULD SAY 7:30, 8:00 O'CLOCK, MAYBE A LITTLE LATER.

Q: AFTER THE FIRST PRESS ARRIVED, DID ANY MORE PRESS ARRIVE?

A: YES.

Q: DID THEY CONTINUE TO ARRIVE THROUGHOUT THE MORNING?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE AFTERNOON?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT TIME DID YOU LEAVE THE BUNDY SCENE?

A: I LEFT THE BUNDY SCENE SEVERAL TIMES. I LEFT, WENT TO OTHER LOCATIONS AND CAME BACK.

Q: AND EVERY TIME YOU CAME BACK TO BUNDY, HAD THE PRESS DECREASED?

A: NO. IT HAD INCREASED.

Q: AND DID IT CONTINUE TO DO SO DURING THE DAY?

A: CONTINUED TO INCREASE AT BOTH LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT THE DAY.

Q: SO YOU MADE YOUR FIRST NOTIFICATION AT 6:50?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU SUBSEQUENTLY MAKE A SECOND CALL TO GET THE CORONER OUT TO THE SCENE?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THAT WAS?

A: I DON'T RECALL THE SECOND TIME THAT I MADE THE SECOND NOTIFICATION. IT SLIPPED MY MEMORY FOR THE MOMENT.

Q: OKAY. WHO WAS IT THAT ASKED YOU TO MAKE THE SECOND NOTIFICATION?

A: TOM LANGE.

Q: AND DID YOU DO SO IMMEDIATELY?

A: YES, I DID. MIGHT -- 8:10 RINGS A BELL WITH ME RIGHT NOW. I'M NOT SURE, BUT I THINK IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN 8:10.

Q: 10 MINUTES AFTER 8:00 IN THE MORNING THAT YOU CALLED?

A: I'M ONLY GUESSING NOW. SO I SHOULDN'T DO THAT.

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, PLEASE?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ON THE SAME TRANSCRIPT, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED TO PAGE 6.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PAGE 6 OF PEOPLE'S 69.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S BEING SHOWN THERE ON THE MONITOR, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU RECOGNIZE -- IS THAT THE -- FURTHER DOWN IN THE TRANSCRIPT THAT WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN TALKING ABOUT OF YOUR CONVERSATION WITH THE CORONER --

A: YES.

Q: -- ON THE MORNING OF JUNE THE 13TH?

A: YES.

Q: AND DOES IT SHOW ANOTHER CONVERSATION BETWEEN YOU AND SOMEONE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE?

A: YES.

Q: AND DOES IT SHOW A TIME FOR THAT CALL?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT TIME, SIR?

A: EIGHT MINUTES AFTER 8:00 IN THE MORNING.

Q: DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AS TO THE TIME AT WHICH YOU ACTUALLY MADE THE CALL?

A: MORE PRECISE, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IN THIS CALL, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE TRANSCRIPT, IT SHOWS THAT YOU STATED, "WE ALREADY GAVE YOU GUYS THE FIRST CALL SEVERAL HOURS AGO ON BUNDY"?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THE -- YOU INDICATED THAT YOUR FIRST CALL ACTUALLY WAS AT 6:50 --

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: -- TO THE CORONER. WAS THAT AN ACCURATE TIME, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU MEAN THEN WHEN YOU SAY YOU GAVE THE CALL SEVERAL HOURS AGO ON BUNDY?

A: JUST A FORM OF SPEECH.

Q: IS THAT WHAT IT FELT LIKE?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, JUST A MOMENT. DOES SHE HAVE TO INTERPRET EVERY WORD, YOUR HONOR? THAT'S IMPROPER.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: IT MAY HAVE SEEMED LIKE THAT AT THE TIME, BUT --

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND FARTHER DOWN, YOU ASKED, "OKAY. CAN YOU GIVE ME AN ETA IF YOU STARTED ROLLING NOW?"

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?

A: ESTIMATED TIME OF ARRIVAL.

Q: AND IF WE COULD GO FARTHER DOWN. THE PERSON YOU'RE SPEAKING TO, HEATH.

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT IS?

A: YEAH. HE'S ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT ANSWERS THE PHONE AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE.

Q: OKAY. DOES HE DO ANYTHING WITH RESPECT TO DISPATCHING OR GIVING NOTIFICATION TO THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO GO TO THE SCENE AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE?

A: THAT'S HIS FUNCTION I BELIEVE THAT MORNING.

Q: SO HE GAVE YOU SOME INFORMATION IN THIS TRANSCRIPT AS IT'S SHOWN DURING YOUR CONVERSATION THAT YOU -- THE DRIVING TIME AND THE ESTIMATE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN YOU STATED, "OKAY. SO YOU'RE TALKING, TALKING A GOOD 45 MINUTES THEN."

A: RIGHT.

Q: RIGHT. FARTHER DOWN. NOW, WHY ARE YOU ASKING FOR AN ETA? WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT?

A: TO FIND OUT AT WHAT TIME -- WHAT TIME THEY COULD DISPATCH THEIR PERSONNEL TO OUR LOCATION SO I COULD COINCIDE THAT WITH TOM LANGE'S -- WHEN HE WOULD PROBABLY BE READY FOR THEM AND PUT THE TWO TOGETHER.

Q: OKAY. NOW, FARTHER ALONG IN THE TRANSCRIPT, DO YOU DISCUSS THE TIME FURTHER WITH HIM IN YOUR CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU GIVE THEM A DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THEY SHOULD EXPECT THERE?

A: YES. I AM SORRY. IS THAT A QUESTION?

Q: I THINK YOU JUST ANSWERED IT.

A: OH, OKAY.

Q: DO YOU SEE THE FURTHER INFORMATION HERE? DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS -- THESE STATEMENTS ABOUT, "DO YOU GOT THE CORONER'S NUMBER YET"?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT YOU?

A: I'M ASKING DO YOU HAVE THE CORONER NUMBER YET.

Q: UH-HUH. AND THEN YOU'RE GETTING THAT FROM THIS PERSON MR. HEATH?

A: YES.

Q: AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE ARE YOU ASKING FOR THE CORONER'S NUMBERS?

A: WE ALWAYS PUT THE CORONER'S NUMBER DOWN. THAT'S HOW WE REFER TO THEM IN THE CORONER'S OFFICE FROM THAT POINT ON.

Q: OKAY. AND THEN YOU SEE THE END OF YOUR CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: I THINK THAT'S ALL. MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, PLEASE?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE.

A: GOOD MORNING, MR. COCHRAN. HOW ARE YOU?

Q: I'M JUST FINE. HOW ARE YOU THIS MORNING?

A: FINE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. GREAT.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MIGHT WE START WITH -- I HAVE SOME TRANSCRIPTS OF THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION INVOLVING DETECTIVE PHILLIPS FOR THE JURY. I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THEM, ONE OF THEM, AND HAVE THEM PASSED OUT TO THE JURY. I WOULD LIKE TO PLAY IT, HAVE IT CUED UP --

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, DIDN'T YOU JUST REFUSE TO ALLOW ME TO DO THAT?

MR. COCHRAN: YOU DIDN'T REFUSE TO ALLOW HER TO DO ANYTHING.

THE COURT: ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY -- I ASKED YOU DO YOU HAVE THE TAPE?

MR. COCHRAN: SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE TAPE.

THE COURT: OVER HERE AT SIDEBAR, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE THE TAPE?

MR. COCHRAN: YES, I HAVE THE TAPE. IT'S ALREADY CUED UP.

THE COURT: BOTH CONVERSATIONS?

MR. COCHRAN: BOTH CONVERSATIONS. YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, WHAT'S YOUR OBJECTION?

MS. CLARK: I THINK THIS IS VERY UNFAIR, YOUR HONOR. I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO HAVE THE TAPE TO HAVE THE JURY FOLLOW ALONG THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE CONVERSATION THAT THIS WITNESS IS A PARTY TO. I COULD HAVE HAD HIM GO THROUGH THE WHOLE THING, LET THE JURY READ ALONG WITH HIM. AND THERE IS A COMPLETE CONVERSATION IN THERE. HE CAN TESTIFY TO ALL OF IT. THE COURT REFUSED TO ALLOW ME TO DO THAT.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S NOT TRUE. THE COURT DID NOT REFUSE --

THE COURT: THAT'S NOT CORRECT. WHAT I REFUSED TO ALLOW YOU TO DO WAS SHOW THE TRANSCRIPTS TO THE JURY. I ASKED YOU IF YOU WANT TO USE TRANSCRIPTS WITH THE JURORS, WHY DON'T WE PLAY TAPES SO THEY GO ALONG WITH THE CONVERSATION. THAT'S WHAT WE DO THAT FOR. I ASKED YOU SPECIFICALLY ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY THE TAPE. YOU SAID NO, YOU DON'T HAVE THE TAPE.

MS. CLARK: WAIT. I WOULD LIKE TO -- IS THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION BEING DEEMED ADMISSIBLE BY THE COURT?

MR. COCHRAN: NOT THE CONVERSATION. THE TAPE.

MS. CLARK: THAT IS, THE COURT REFUSED THE TRANSCRIPT.

THE COURT: NO, I HAVEN'T.

MS. CLARK: WELL, I THINK I HAVE OPENED UP --

THE COURT: WHAT'S OBJECTIONABLE ABOUT IT?

MS. CLARK: CERTAIN AREAS --

MR. COCHRAN: WHAT IS THE OBJECTION?

MS. CLARK: CERTAIN AREAS ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE POINT OF INQUIRY AND CERTAIN AREAS ARE NOT.

THE COURT: LET ME SEE THE TRANSCRIPT.

MR. COCHRAN: THE ENTIRE THING IS ALL ADMISSIBLE, YOUR HONOR.

MR. DARDEN: NOT WHAT IS ON THE BACK OF THE TRANSCRIPT HOWEVER. WHAT IS THE LAST PAGE OF THIS DOCUMENT?

MR. COCHRAN: WE JUST TAKE WHATEVER THEY GIVE US. IT'S FROM L.A. COUNTY.

MR. SHAPIRO: IT'S YOUR STUFF.

MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, LOOK AT THE LAST PAGE. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS.

MR. COCHRAN: YOU GUYS, WHY DON'T YOU GUYS GROW UP.

MR. DARDEN: THE COURT WILL NOTE THERE IS A NOTATION ON THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. IT IS NOT PART OF THE TRANSCRIPT AT ALL.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL THAT IS, YOUR HONOR, IS THE ONE-MINUTE GAP THAT EXPLAINS WHAT THE TWO OF THEM ARE. THIS IS THE WAY IT CAME. I DIDN'T WANT TO MARK IT AT ALL.

THE COURT: I HAVE REVIEWED THE TRANSCRIPT OF BOTH CONVERSATIONS, THE TOTAL OF WHICH IS SEVEN PAGES. WHAT'S THE OBJECTION?

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, YOU KNOW WHAT -- LET ME ASK LEAVE OF THE COURT FOR THIS. COUNSEL HAS NOT EVEN BEGUN CROSS. I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE -- SINCE THE COURT IS GOING TO ALLOW THE TRANSCRIPT, THE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WITHDRAW THEIR OBJECTION. I WOULD LIKE TO FINISH TAKING DETECTIVE PHILLIPS THEN THROUGH THE TRANSCRIPT. I WOULD HAVE DONE IT ON DIRECT IF WE COULD HAVE PERMITTED THE JURY TO HAVE THE ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT. SINCE I KNOW THEY WILL NOW, I WOULD LIKE TO GO THROUGH MORE PORTIONS OF IT BEFORE I COMPLETE MY DIRECT EXAMINATION. COUNSEL IS NOT EVEN INTO CROSS YET. AND THEN SINCE COUNSEL HAS THE TAPE, I'M NOT OBJECTING TO IT BEING PLAYED, BUT I WOULD LIKE LEAVE OF THE COURT TO COMPLETE SOME MORE EXAMINATION SINCE THE JURY IS NOW GOING TO BE PERMITTED TO SEE THE ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, YOUR HONOR, THAT IS WHAT REDIRECT EXAMINATION IS FOR. I'M NOW PROCEEDING WITH MY CROSS-EXAMINATION. I SHOULD BE PERMITTED TO DO THAT, YOUR HONOR, AND THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS. WE HAVE PREPARED THIS. I AM PREPARED TO GO FORWARD AND THERE'S NO OBJECTION TO THIS, YOUR HONOR. SHE'S USED THIS. I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED IF I MIGHT, YOUR HONOR. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT LAST PAGE. THAT CAME WITH IT. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT LAST PAGE.

MR. SHAPIRO: ALSO, JUDGE, A LOT OF STRATEGY IS INVOLVED, TRYING --

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME, MR. SHAPIRO. ONLY ONE VOICE PER SIDE. LET'S TAKE THE --

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. BUT, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD HAVE GONE MORE DEEPLY INTO THE TRANSCRIPT HAD I KNOWN THAT COUNSEL WAS GOING TO OFFER THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT. WAIT. WAIT. LET ME FINISH, PLEASE. I WOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH IT PAGE BY PAGE HAD I BEEN ABLE TO ALLOW THE JURY TO FOLLOW ALONG AND GIVE THEM THE ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT AS PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED. BUT ALL I WOULD LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO NOW IS TO TAKE THEM FURTHER THROUGH THE DOCUMENT. AND I'M GOING TO WITHDRAW MY OBJECTION, SO COUNSEL CAN PLAY THE ENTIRE TAPE FOR THE JURY. IF I HAD IT HERE, I WOULD HAVE PLAYED IT. WE DIDN'T HAVE IT. BUT I WOULD ASK LEAVE OF THE COURT TO SIMPLY COMPLETE MY EXAMINATION WITH THE BALANCE OF THE PASSAGES PERTAINING TO THE DIRECT EXAMINATION I PREVIOUSLY HAD NOW THAT I KNOW THERE'S NO OBJECTION FROM HIM. THE REASON I WENT INTO THE AREAS THAT I DID WAS BECAUSE I WANTED TO EXPLAIN THE PORTIONS HIGHLIGHTED BY COUNSEL IN HIS OPENING STATEMENT BECAUSE IT WAS CLEAR TO ME COUNSEL WOULD NOT OBJECT TO THAT. SINCE NOW I KNOW THAT COUNSEL WILL NOT OBJECT TO THE BALANCE OF THE DOCUMENT, I ONLY WANT TO COMPLETE MY EXAMINATION WITH THE BALANCE OF THE CONVERSATION NOW THAT I KNOW THAT THERE'S NO FURTHER OBJECTION TO IT.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I BE HEARD, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: BRIEFLY.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, IN THIS CONNECTION, COUNSEL, AS EVERYBODY DOES, HAS TO TRY THEIR CASE. WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO TELL THEM WE HAVE ANY TRANSCRIPTS FOR THE JURORS. WE HAVE THE SAME DISCOVERY, YOUR HONOR. WE GOT THIS READY. WE ARE READY TO PROCEED. IT'S MY TIME FOR CROSS-EXAMINATION. I WANT TO PLAY THE ENTIRE TAPE. SHE HAD EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO DO WHATEVER SHE WANTED TO DO. SHE CAN'T GO BACK AND DO IT NOW. THIS IS HIGHLY UNUSUAL. SHE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY ON REDIRECT TO DO WHATEVER SHE WANTS TO DO. I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED WITH MY EXAMINATION. SHE'S BEEN UP THERE FOR PART OF TWO DAYS WITH THIS WITNESS AND I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED IF I MAY. THIS IS HIGHLY UNUSUAL AND UNFAIR, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: I DON'T SEE WHAT IS UNFAIR --

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO PROCEED, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S WHAT I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO PROCEED WITH MY QUESTIONING. IF SHE HAS SOMETHING SHE WANTS TO CLARIFY, SHE CAN DO IT ON REDIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: I'LL TELL YOU, WHAT'S UNFAIR IS THE UNFAIR IMPRESSION CREATED WITH THE JURY THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO PRESENT SOMETHING THAT THE DEFENSE IS BEING ALLOWED TO PRESENT.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, WAIT A MINUTE.

MS. CLARK: IT IS TRUE.

THE COURT: WAIT A MINUTE.

MR. COCHRAN: SHE'S THINKING OF ANOTHER CASE NOW.

THE COURT: HERE'S THE PROBLEM. YOU HAD THIS TRANSCRIPT, AND THE USE OF TRANSCRIPTS WITH REGARD TO TAPE-RECORDED CONVERSATIONS, WHEN YOU PRESENT A TAPE-RECORDING, YOU ARE SUPPOSES TO HAVE THE TRANSCRIPT TO PRESENT TO THE JURY. YOU ASKED ME FOR PERMISSION TO PASS OUT THAT ONE PAGE. I TOLD YOU NO BECAUSE WE HAD THE ELMO WITH THE PORTION THAT YOU WERE USING.

MR. COCHRAN: UNDERLINED.

THE COURT: THAT WE DIDN'T NEED TO TAKE THE TIME TO PASS IT OUT. WE ARE NOW GOING TO USE IT WITH A TAPE-RECORDING. THIS IS A MUCH DIFFERENT SITUATION, ONE. SO THERE IS A VAST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO SITUATIONS. SECONDLY, FOR ME TO ALLOW YOU TO REOPEN YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION AT THIS POINT AFTER DEFENSE COUNSEL HAS ALREADY TOLD YOU WHAT THEY'RE ABOUT TO DO -- I MEAN THERE'S STRATEGY INVOLVED HERE AS TO HOW THEY WANT TO PRESENT THEIR CASE, THAT I WOULD THEN ALLOW YOU TO CUT THEM OFF AT THE PASS ON SOME OF THESE THINGS.

MS. CLARK: WHAT IS THE STRATEGY INVOLVED THAT I'M INTERFERING WITH BY POINTING OUT OTHER PORTIONS OF THE TRANSCRIPT? I DON'T UNDERSTAND. EXCUSE ME.

MR. COCHRAN: YOU'VE ALREADY RULED.

THE COURT: WELL, THE OBJECTION IS OVERRULED.

MR. DARDEN: JUDGE, BEFORE WE GO --

MR. COCHRAN: ONE PERSON.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS SOMETHING ELSE.

MR. DARDEN: ON THE RECORD WHILE MR. BAILEY WAS DOING CROSS, WE ASKED THE COURT TO INSTRUCT COUNSEL TO SHOW EXHIBITS TO OPPOSING COUNSEL BEFORE THEY PRESENT THEM BEFORE THE JURY. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN HERE. IF WE HAD NOT COME HERE ON THE OBJECTION, WE WOULD NOT KNOW --

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S NOT TRUE AT ALL.

MR. DARDEN: WE DID NOT KNOW THAT THE JURY WAS ABOUT TO RECEIVE THIS DOCUMENT WHICH IS ATTACHED TO THE END OF THE TRANSCRIPT.

THE COURT: MR. DARDEN, HE JUST HANDED YOU --

MR. COCHRAN: I HANDED YOU A COPY OF THAT BEFORE I GAVE IT TO YOU.

MS. CLARK: IT'S NOT THE SAME ONE.

MR. COCHRAN: IT'S THE SAME ONE. GO GET IT. IT'S THE SAME ONE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. STOP IT.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE DISTRIBUTE THEM TO THE JURORS, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES. DEPUTY JACKSON, WOULD YOU DISTRIBUTE THOSE TO THE JURY, PLEASE.

(THE BAILIFF COMPLIES.)

MR. DARDEN: BEFORE WE PLAY THE TAPE, MAY WE INSPECT THE TAPE PHYSICALLY BEFORE IT'S PLAYED?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: FOLKS, IF YOU JUST HOLD ON TO THOSE TRANSCRIPTS. DON'T READ THEM UNTIL WE ACTUALLY START PLAYING THE TAPE THAT IT PERTAINS TO.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE GET ANOTHER COPY? DEFENSE JUST TOOK THE COPY WE WERE USING.

THE COURT: I'M SORRY, MISS CLARK. I DIDN'T HEAR THAT.

MS. CLARK: CAN WE GET ANOTHER CLEAN COPY OF THE TRANSCRIPT? THE COURT -- THE DEFENSE JUST TOOK THE ONE WE WERE USING.

THE COURT: I THINK IT'S THE SAME ONE THAT YOU HAVE WITHOUT THE ENVELOPE, ISN'T IT?

MS. CLARK: I REALIZE THAT, YOUR HONOR. BUT WE WANTED TO MARK IT AND DEFENSE OBJECTED TO THE COPY --

THE COURT: WAIT.

MR. COCHRAN: I GAVE YOU ONE I THOUGHT, COUNSEL.

MR. HARRIS: I HAVE ONE HERE.

THE COURT: WAIT. WAIT. WAIT. COUNSEL, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. WHEN I SAY WAIT, EVERYBODY STOPS TALKING AND SITS DOWN. ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, HAVE YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THE TAPE? MR. DARDEN?

MR. DARDEN: I HAVE, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN HAS TOLD ME THAT THE TAPE HAS NOT BEEN ENHANCED OR OTHERWISE EDITED, AND I ACCEPT THAT REPRESENTATION. THANK YOU, SIR.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, SIR.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, YOU MAY PROCEED.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS. GOOD MORNING AGAIN, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. SORRY FOR THE DELAY. I'M GOING TO PLAY THE TAPE NOW AND I WANT YOU TO ASSIST US IN IDENTIFYING THE VOICES. WOULD YOU LIKE A COPY OF THE TRANSCRIPT ALSO --

A: YES.

Q: -- TO GO ALONG WITH IT? YOU PERHAPS NEED ONE.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YOU MAY.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.

THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.

MR. COCHRAN: SURE. NOW -- I'LL ASK MR. HARRIS, YOUR HONOR, TO PLACE THE TAPE IN NOW. I'LL ASK HIM TO STOP IT AT CERTAIN POINTS.

(FROM 11:26 TO 11:26, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO BACK -- LET'S GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING.

MR. COCHRAN: BEFORE HE PLAYS THAT, LET ME ASK A QUESTION IF I MIGHT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, THIS PURPORTS TO BE A TELEPHONIC COMMUNICATION BETWEEN A DEPUTY CORONER BY THE NAME OF PAUL WILLIS AND YOURSELF, AND I'LL ASK YOU IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE VOICES AT SOME POINT, OKAY?

A: I'LL RECOGNIZE MINE.

Q: OKAY. AND YOU'LL HOPEFULLY RECOGNIZE THE OTHER VOICE. ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T WE START THE TAPE.

(AT 11:27 TO 11:27, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WHOSE VOICE WAS THAT?

A: BEFORE IT SAID, "OKAY, WHAT"?

Q: YES. WHERE I GOT --

A: IT WAS MY VOICE.

Q: THAT'S YOUR VOICE? ALL RIGHT.

A: SOUNDS LIKE IT.

Q: AND THAT WAS YOUR VOICE ON JUNE 13TH, 1994 AT ABOUT 6:49?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: IS THIS YOUR FIRST CALL?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. LET'S PROCEED.

(AT 11:28 TO 11:28, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, AT THAT POINT, WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT NOT FOLLOWING PROCEDURE, ONE OF THE PROCEDURES OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AND PART OF YOUR MANUAL IS THAT YOU ARE TO NOTIFY THE CORONER AS SOON AS PRACTICAL, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND IF YOU LOOK IN YOUR BOOK THERE BEFORE YOU, YOUR MANUAL, ISN'T THERE A SECTION 238.46, NOTIFICATION OF THE CORONER?

A: YES.

Q: AND IT SAYS ESSENTIALLY, DOESN'T IT, SIR, THAT: "IT SHALL BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS TO NOTIFY THE CORONER OF ALL DEATHS OCCURRING," AND IT LISTS A SERIES OF TIMES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND AS AN EXPERIENCED HOMICIDE INVESTIGATOR, YOU KNOW THAT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE CORONER TO BE NOTIFIED BECAUSE THE SOONER THE CORONER GETS THERE, THE SOONER THE CORONER CAN DO WHAT THE CORONER DOES AND TRY TO ASCERTAIN WHEN THE TIME OF DEATH WAS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S IMPORTANT.

Q: ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT IN EVERY CASE, THE TIME OF DEATH?

A: IT'S IMPORTANT. IT COULD BE.

Q: AND IN YOUR OWN DEPARTMENT, THERE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINTS FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE ABOUT THE LAPD NOT GIVING THEM NOTICE ON TIME; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: I'VE NEVER HEARD OF ANY OF THOSE COMPLAINTS.

Q: YOU NEVER HEARD OF THOSE COMPLAINTS?

A: NO, SIR.

Q: HAVE YOU HEARD THAT YOUR OWN CHIEF WILLIE WILLIAMS HAS INSTITUTED AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE DETECTIVES NOT GIVING PROPER NOTICE AND APPROPRIATE NOTICE TO THE CORONER'S OFFICE?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. VAGUE, WHAT'S PROPER AND APPROPRIATE AND HEARSAY. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY INVESTIGATION BEING DONE BY CHIEF WILLIE WILLIAMS.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY INVESTIGATION SINCE JUNE OF 1994 WHERE THE CHIEF HAS HAD AN INVESTIGATION DONE BECAUSE THE LAPD DOES NOT GIVE TIMELY NOTICE TO THE CORONER'S OFFICE?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE.

MR. COCHRAN: I AM ASKING.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MS. CLARK: HE'S TESTIFYING, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I TOLD YOU THAT I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THAT INVESTIGATION, SIR.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND YOU DO NOT -- YOU'VE NEVER HEARD OF THE L.A. COUNTY CORONER'S OFFICE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LAPD NOT GIVING NOTICE?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, ARGUMENTATIVE, ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY FRESH, NEW COMPLAINT OR INVESTIGATION GOING ON. I'M AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THAT'S WHAT BROUGHT ABOUT THE FIRST CALL AND THE SECOND CALL, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING OTHER THAN FRESH THEN. LET'S TALK ABOUT -- I'VE ASKED YOU GENERALLY. NOW LET'S ASK, WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE CORONER'S OFFICE BEING CONCERNED ABOUT NOT GETTING NOTIFICATION OF THESE DEATHS?

A: WELL, I KNOW THAT THE CORONER'S OFFICE REQUEST THAT WE MAKE A FIRST CALL TELLING THEM WHAT WE HAVE SO THEY CAN MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO HAVE THEIR PERSONNEL READY FOR WHEN WE MAKE THE SECOND CALL TO COME OUT TO A CRIME SCENE SO IT WOULD -- THEY WOULD NOT WASTE AS MUCH TIME GETTING THEIR MANPOWER SITUATED ALONG WITH OUR MANPOWER.

Q: AND WHEN WAS THAT? WHEN WAS THAT DISCUSSION -- WHEN DID YOU INSTITUTE THIS FIRST CALL PROCEDURE?

A: WELL, THAT'S BEEN INSTITUTED FOR YEARS.

Q: IS THAT IN YOUR MANUAL ANYWHERE?

A: I KNOW IT'S IN THE SPECIAL ORDER.

Q: IS IT IN YOUR MANUAL?

A: SPECIAL ORDER NUMBER 21 I BELIEVE.

Q: DO YOU HAVE THAT UP THERE?

A: I DON'T HAVE IT HERE.

Q: SO IT'S NOT IN THE MANUAL.

A: I DON'T KNOW -- I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S -- IT'S PROBABLY IN THE MANUAL. IF IT'S A SPECIAL ORDER, IT'S NOW -- SPECIAL ORDERS GO IN THE MANUAL.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, OVER THE LUNCH HOUR, CAN YOU -- WOULD YOU LOOK AND SEE IF YOU CAN FIND IT FOR US? I SUSPECT WE WILL BE BACK THIS AFTERNOON.

A: I HAVE A COPY OF IT.

Q: OKAY. CAN YOU SEE IF YOU CAN FIND IT IN THE MANUAL FOR US OVER THE LUNCH HOUR?

A: OKAY.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW -- BUT BASICALLY, YOU ARE AWARE AND IN THE MANUAL IS 238.46, NOTIFICATION TO CORONER; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IT INDICATES THAT --

MR. COCHRAN: IN FACT, MAYBE IF YOUR HONOR WILL ALLOW -- I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS HAS BEEN MARKED. I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THIS TO COUNSEL AND I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THIS AND PUT IT ON THE ELMO AT THIS POINT BEFORE WE GO BACK TO THE TAPE.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS FROM THE 1991 MANUAL. IF THE PEOPLE COULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHECK IT AGAINST THE '94, '95, MAKE SURE IT'S THE SAME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE WITNESS.)

THE COURT: PERHAPS YOU SHOULD PASS ON TO SOMETHING ELSE.

MR. COCHRAN: COULD WE JUST HAVE A SECOND, YOUR HONOR?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE WITNESS.)

MR. COCHRAN: JUST A SECOND MORE, YOUR HONOR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE WITNESS.)

THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN OF THE JURY, WHILE THE LAWYERS ARE CONFERRING, IF YOU WANT TO STAND UP AND STRETCH OR STRETCH YOUR LEGS A LITTLE, FEEL FREE TO DO SO.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE WITNESS.)

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, WOULD YOU GIVE THOSE ITEMS TO BE PHOTOCOPIED TO MISS MIRAN, PLEASE. TOO LATE.

MR. COCHRAN: WE'LL HAVE THE COPIES IN JUST A SECOND, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. AND MR. TYLER, WOULD YOU TELL MISS MIRAN I NEED ABOUT HALF A DOZEN OF EACH?

MR. TYLER: HALF DOZEN?

THE COURT: HALF DOZEN. THANK YOU.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. I BELIEVE WE ARE NOW -- I BELIEVE COUNSEL NOW HAS A COPY AND I HAVE A COPY AND WE'RE NOW I BELIEVE READY TO PROCEED. I THINK WHATEVER I ASKED LAST, I MOVE TO STRIKE THAT, YOUR HONOR, AND GO FOR THIS QUESTION.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, YOU'VE NOW PROVIDED US WITH A 1994 VERSION OF THE NOTIFICATION TO CORONER, AND IT'S 238.46 OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT MANUAL; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THAT STILL?

A: NO. YOU TOOK MINE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO BRING IT BACK.

MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO ASK THE COURT TO MARK THAT AS DEFENSE NEXT IN ORDER AND PUT IT ON THE ELMO, YOUR HONOR, AND I'M GOING TO RETURN THESE TWO TO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THAT'S DEFENSE --

THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, SIR.

THE COURT: 1016.

MR. COCHRAN: 1016?

THE COURT: YES.

(DEFT'S 1016 FOR ID = 1994 VERSION 238.46)

MR. COCHRAN: NOW, CAN YOU BRING THAT A LITTLE CLEARER, PLEASE? AND NOW IT'S 238.46. 46.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, THAT SECTION INDICATES, DOES IT NOT, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, THAT: "IT SHALL BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS TO NOTIFY THE CORONER OF ALL DEATHS OCCURRING," AND LISTS A SERIES OF TIMES, AND UNDER THEM ARE WHEN THE DECEASED DIED UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES WHILE UNDER ARREST; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN THE DECEASED HAS NOT BEEN ATTENDED BY A PHYSICIAN WITHIN 20 DAYS PRECEDING DEATH?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN THE DECEASED COMMITTED SUICIDE?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN THE ATTENDING PHYSICIAN IS UNABLE TO STATE THE CAUSE OF DEATH?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN THE DECEASED DIED AS A RESULT OF AN ACCIDENT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN THERE'S ANY SUSPICION THAT THE DEATH RESULTED FROM THE USE OF NARCOTICS?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN -- AND I HOPE WE COPIED THAT -- OVER AT THE NEXT PAGE AT THE TOP, GOES ON TO SAY: "UNDER SUCH CIRCUMSTANCES AS TO AFFORD A REASONABLE GROUND TO SUSPECT THAT DEATH WAS CAUSED BY THE CRIMINAL ACT OF ANOTHER." AND THIS OF COURSE WAS THE SECTION UNDER WHICH YOU WERE OPERATING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO THAT WAS PART OF YOUR MANUAL, PART OF YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AS AN INVESTIGATING OFFICER; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: IT WAS NOT --

Q: ON THAT DATE, JUNE 12TH.

A: IT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY AS INVESTIGATING OFFICER AND HAD I BEEN THE INVESTIGATION OFFICER AT THE TIME.

Q: RIGHT. AND -- BUT -- AND SINCE YOU HAD BEEN RELIEVED OF DUTY, IT FELL TO LANGE AND VANNATTER AND AS SUCH, AS WE'RE HEARING FROM THIS TAPE, YOU WERE CARRYING OUT THE REQUEST OF TOM LANGE TO DO THIS; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: NOW, IN ADDITION TO THAT, RIGHT UNDER THIS PARTICULAR SECTION, IT CITES HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE SECTION 10250. AND AS AN EXPERIENCED DETECTIVE, YOU KNOW WHAT THAT SECTION IS ABOUT, DON'T YOU?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: AND SO THAT WE'RE ALL CLEAR, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO MARK AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT IN ORDER -- I'M GIVING COUNSEL A COPY OF THE HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE. I WOULD LIKE TO MARK AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT TO ORDER D-1017 TO PUT ON THE ELMO THE PARTICULAR SECTION, 1017.

(DEFT'S 1017 FOR ID = H&S CODE SECTION 10250)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING ABOUT RESPONSIBILITY OF THE CORONER AND THIS PARTICULAR HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE SECTION 10250 IF THE CORONER IS NOT NOTIFIED PROMPTLY AND APPROPRIATELY? WHAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THAT?

A: WELL, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE I READ THE HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE, BUT I UNDERSTAND IF YOU WERE TO HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE A DEAD BODY AND YOU MADE NO NOTIFICATION AT ALL TO THE CORONER'S OFFICE AND I IMAGINE JUST LEFT AND WALKED AWAY FROM IT, YOU WOULD BE GUILTY OF A MISDEMEANOR OR SOME TYPE OF CRIME.

Q: ALL RIGHT. LET'S LOOK AT THIS SECTION. THIS SECTION DOES PROVIDE UNDER 10250 THAT IF YOU LOOK RIGHT AT THIS SECTION --

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. IS THAT THE '94 VERSION?

MR. COCHRAN: I HOPE IT IS. WE GOT IT FROM YOUR HONOR'S CLERKS I THINK.

THE COURT: THAT'S -- NO. THERE IS A 1994 AMENDMENT TO --

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, WE GOT THE ONE FROM THEM. SO MAY I SEE THAT?

MR. DARDEN: CAN WE TAKE THIS ONE OFF THE SCREEN?

THE COURT: YES.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

THE COURT: CAN WE HAVE ONE OF THE LAW CLERKS COPY THAT?

MS. CLARK: TO AVOID DELAY, I DON'T MIND IF COUNSEL USES THE ONE WE GOT. THAT'S FINE.

THE COURT: IF WE ARE GOING TO USE THE STATUTE, LET'S USE THE STATUTE, THE CORRECT ONE. YES.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO REPLACE THIS AND MARK THIS 1017, YOUR HONOR. MISS CLARK AND I HAVE BOTH SEEN IT.

(DEFT'S 1017 FOR ID = REPLACED COPY OF STATUTE)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS 1994 AMENDMENT OF SECTION 10250, THE NOTIFICATION OF CORONER AND VIOLATIONS, DO YOU SEE THE PART UP THERE WHERE IT INDICATES THAT --

MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU MAKE THAT A LITTLE CLEARER, PLEASE, MR. HARRIS, IF POSSIBLE? RIGHT THERE.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU SEE THAT PART WHERE IT SAYS: "ANY PERSON WHO DOES NOT NOTIFY THE CORONER AS REQUIRED BY THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF A MISDEMEANOR"? SO IT MAKES IT A CRIME; DOES IT NOT?

A: IF YOU WERE TO DO THAT, YES.

Q: RIGHT. IF YOU DIDN'T GIVE NOTICE TO THE CORONER UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES SPELLED OUT IN 10250; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

A: IF YOU DIDN'T NOTIFY THE CORONER WHEN YOU HAD A DEAD BODY AND YOU WERE A POLICE OFFICER, I WOULD ASSUME YOU WERE VIOLATING THE LAW.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WITH REGARD TO THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF THE FIRST CALL, YOU WERE KIND ENOUGH TO GIVE US A SPECIAL ORDER NUMBER 21 DATED NOVEMBER 17TH, 1993, AND THE SUBJECT DEALS WITH NOTIFICATIONS TO THE CORONER.

A: YES.

Q: YOU HAVE THE ORIGINAL BACK, DO YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AND THIS WAS SIGNED BY OUR CHIEF OF POLICE WILLIE L. WILLIAMS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WITH REGARD TO THIS PARTICULAR DOCUMENT --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO MARK THIS --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THAT DEFENDANT'S --

THE COURT: 1018.

MR. COCHRAN: 1018, YOUR HONOR.

(DEF'S 1018 FOR ID = COPY OF SPEC. ORDER 21)

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. AND SINCE I ONLY HAVE -- YOUR STAFF WAS VERY FRUGAL, YOUR HONOR AND ONLY MADE TWO COPIES. SO I HAVE TO STAND OVER MISS CLARK'S SHOULDER IF I CAN.

MS. CLARK: THE PEOPLE DON'T OBJECT EVEN THOUGH THERE'S UNDERLYING ON IT.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, IT CAME FROM HER WITNESS, SO I GUESS IT'S ALL RIGHT. MAY I PROCEED, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES, YOU MAY.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, THIS DOCUMENT, SPECIAL ORDER NUMBER 21, NOVEMBER 17TH, 1993, THE PURPOSE OF THIS DOCUMENT WAS WHAT? DO YOU RECALL THE PURPOSE?

A: IT WAS JUST A -- PURPOSE FOR ME TO READ IT?

Q: WELL, AS YOU UNDERSTAND THE PURPOSE, YES, SIR, OR YOU KNEW.

A: IT HAS TO DO WITH IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION WHENEVER IT IS DETERMINED THAT A DEATH FALLS WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE CORONER'S OFFICE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. LET'S SAY WHEN YOU SAID IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION, THAT MEANS QUICKLY, RIGHT AWAY, IMMEDIATE?

A: AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

Q: UH-HUH. IS THAT WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU?

A: IN THESE TYPES OF CIRCUMSTANCES, THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS TO ME.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO WHEN IT SAYS IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION WHEN THE DEATH FALLS WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE CORONER'S OFFICE AND -- WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, SIR?

A: WELL, WHEN IT COMES UNDER ONE OF THE SECTIONS THAT WE JUST PREVIOUSLY READ ABOUT WHETHER IT'S AN ACCIDENTAL DEATH AND NOT WITHIN 20 DAYS AND IN CUSTODY OR AS A NARCOTICS OR HANDS OF ANOTHER.

Q: SO THESE DEATHS WOULD COME WITHIN THAT PURVIEW; WOULD THEY NOT?

A: I WOULD THINK SO.

Q: AND THIS WILL ALLOW THE CORONER TO BE MORE EFFECTIVELY DEPLOYED, THAT THE CORONER BE MORE EFFECTIVELY DEPLOYED RESOURCES THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND REDUCE POTENTIAL DELAYS AND RESPONSES TO DEATH SCENES; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: BY THE CORONER'S OFFICE, YES.

Q: AND THEN THE CHIEF GOES ON TO SAY: "THIS ORDER REVISES PROCEDURES FOR NOTIFICATIONS TO THE CORONER'S OFFICE," RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND PURSUANT TO THIS, BASED UPON WHEN YOU RECEIVED THIS ORDER -- YOU RECEIVED THIS ORDER, DID YOU OUT, IN WEST LOS ANGELES?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN ONCE YOU RECEIVED THIS ORDER, YOU PROCEEDED TO TRY AND IMPLEMENT IT, DID YOU NOT, ON CASES YOU WERE INVESTIGATING?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME, WOULD YOU NOT, THAT THE DETECTIVES AT ROBBERY-HOMICIDE, WHICH IS A DOWNTOWN UNIT IN PARKER CENTER, ALSO RECEIVED THIS ORDER; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA IF THEY RECEIVED IT.

Q: WOULDN'T YOU THINK THAT GENERAL DISTRIBUTION, AN ORDER FROM THE CHIEF OF POLICE WOULD GO TO ALL UNITS?

A: I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THEY GOT IT DOWN THERE, BUT I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF THEY GOT IT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND. BUT IT WAS IN GENERAL CIRCULATION. YOU GOT IT OUT IN WEST LOS ANGELES?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND IT GOES ON TO SAY, DOES IT NOT, THAT: "THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER AT THE SCENE OF A DEATH WHICH REQUIRES NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER SHALL MAKE THE NOTIFICATION IMMEDIATELY UPON DETERMINING THAT THE DEATH FALLS WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE CORONER'S OFFICE." IS THAT WHAT IT SAYS?

A: YES, IT DOES.

Q: "IF THE CORONER IS NOT IMMEDIATELY NEEDED AT THE SCENE, THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER SHALL ADVISE THE CORONER OF AN APPROXIMATE TIME WHEN THE CORONER'S DEPUTY CAN RESPOND"; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: "AND IF NO TIME CAN BE ESTIMATED, THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER SHALL ARRANGE TO MAKE A SECOND NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER WHEN RESPONSE IS APPROPRIATE"; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, I THINK YOU HAVE A COPY.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. THANK YOU. THANKS, MARCIA.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, BEFORE WE GET BACK TO THE TAPE, THIS PARTICULAR SECTION WE'RE JUST READING NOW, SPECIAL ORDER NUMBER 21, CHANGED THE POLICY AS IT EXISTED PRIOR TO NOVEMBER 17TH, 1993, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IT TALKED ABOUT IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION. DID YOU EVER ASK CHIEF WILLIAMS OR ANYBODY IN THE CHIEF'S OFFICE WHAT HE MEANT BY IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION?

A: NO, I'VE NEVER DISCUSSED IT WITH HIM.

Q: DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY TRAINING OR SEMINARS TO WHAT THEY MEANT ABOUT IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION?

A: WELL, I KNOW WHAT THEY'RE REFERRING TO, BUT THIS IS A BLACK AND WHITE THING YOU ARE REFERRING TO AND I DEAL IN THE GRAY AREA OUT HERE. WHEN YOU WALK OUT TO A CRIME SCENE, YOU JUST DON'T IMMEDIATELY TURN AROUND AND MAKE A PHONE CALL TO THE CORONER'S OFFICE. YOU HAVE TO SEE WHAT YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO INVESTIGATE WHAT YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE TO TALK TO SOME CERTAIN PEOPLE. AND SO AS SOON AS PRACTICABLE, YOU IMMEDIATELY MAKE THAT NOTIFICATION. IT'S NOT ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU DO WHEN YOU GET TO A CRIME SCENE. NEVER HAS BEEN, MR. COCHRAN.

Q: I UNDERSTAND. BUT I'M TALKING TO YOU NOW ABOUT THIS CHANGE IN THE CHIEF'S OFFICE NOVEMBER 17TH, 1993, WHICH I BELIEVE YOU TOLD US CAME ABOUT BECAUSE THE CORONER'S OFFICE HAD SOME KIND OF COMPLAINTS OR CONCERNS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: WELL, AS I TOLD YOU, I WASN'T AWARE OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT WERE BEING MADE AND I WASN'T AWARE OF THE INVESTIGATION, BUT I THINK THE COMPLAINT WAS BASICALLY BECAUSE WE WOULD CALL AND THEN WE WOULD WAIT HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS FOR A CORONER'S OFFICE TO SHOW UP. SO THIS WAS IMPLEMENTED SO IT WOULD CUT DOWN ON OUR DELAY TIME IN WAITING FOR A CORONER AND THEIR TIME WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO ARRIVE. SO WE WOULD BOTH WORK TOGETHER TO WHERE WE COULD GET THE CORONER'S OFFICE OUT THERE AT THE TIME WHEN WE WERE READY FOR THEM.

Q: WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME THAT WAITING FROM 12:15 TO 6:50 IN THE MORNING -- YOU THINK THAT'S IMMEDIATE FOR THE FIRST CALL?

A: WELL, NO, BUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES OUT THERE DICTATED THAT. AND AS IT SAYS, AS YOU READ FARTHER ON IN THIS SPECIAL ORDER, WHY WE WAITED FURTHER.

Q: I SEE. BUT YOU SAID THE CIRCUMSTANCES DICTATED. BUT IF IT IMPINGES UPON THE ABILITY OF THE CORONER TO DO THEIR JOB AND SOMEBODY'S FREEDOM MIGHT ALSO BE DETERMINED BY THE --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

MR. COCHRAN: I'M TRYING TO FINISH THE QUESTION.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS NOT --

THE COURT: IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, LET ME SEE IF I CAN RESTATE IT IN A LESS ARGUMENTATIVE FASHION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IF THE CORONER IS NOT BEING NOTIFIED, AFFECTED THE CORONER IN DETERMINING CAUSE OF THE TIME OF DEATH IN A PARTICULAR CASE, DO YOU THINK THAT'S A PRETTY IMPORTANT CIRCUMSTANCE?

A: IF THAT OCCURRED.

Q: AND DID YOU THINK THAT MIGHT BE CERTAINLY MORE IMPORTANT THAN NOTIFYING THE PRESS RELATIONS OFFICER DOWNTOWN ABOUT THE PRESS BEING -- CRAWLING ON THE SCENE LIKE ANTS, YOU COMPARED THE TWO, DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT?

A: WELL, THE CORONER'S OFFICE WAS NOTIFIED, MR. COCHRAN.

Q: NO. I'M ASKING, IF YOU COMPARED THE PRESS RELATIONS OFFICERS, IN YOUR CONCERNS WITH THAT, WITH THE NOTIFICATION OF THE CORONER WHO COULD THEN COME OUT AND START A PROCESS BY WHICH HE COULD PERHAPS WITH GREATER SPECIFICITY DETERMINE THE CAUSE OF DEATH, WOULDN'T YOU THINK THAT'S MORE IMPORTANT?

A: WELL, IT WOULD BE MORE IMPORTANT TO HAVE THE CORONER OUT THERE, SURE, THAN IT WOULD BE TO NOTIFY THE CORONER'S OFFICE -- THE PRESS RELATIONS OFFICER, BUT YOU GET THEM BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU'VE ANSWERED THE QUESTION. THANK YOU.

MR. COCHRAN: NOW, YOUR HONOR, IF WE MIGHT, MAY WE PROCEED WITH THE TAPE NOW?

THE COURT: YES.

(AT 11:51 TO 11:51 DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, AT THAT POINT, WHEN HE ASKED, "IF WE HAVE NAMES ON THOSE PEOPLE," YOU SAID, "NO, I DON'T," RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU DIDN'T -- AT THAT TIME, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TELL HIM ANYTHING ABOUT SIMPSON OR ANY OTHER NATURE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? THIS IS YOUR FIRST CALL, RIGHT?

A: I DIDN'T HAVE THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE.

Q: BUT I AM SAYING, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TELL HIM ANYTHING ABOUT IT EVEN BEING HIGH PROFILE AT THIS POINT. THIS WAS YOUR FIRST NOTIFICATION; WAS IT NOT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY ACTUAL NAMES, RIGHT?

A: DIDN'T HAVE BOTH NAMES.

Q: OKAY. YOU SUSPECTED ONE NAME, BUT YOU SAID, "DO WE HAVE" -- WHEN WILLIS ASKED YOU, "DO WE HAVE NAMES OF THESE PEOPLE," YOU SAID, "NO, I DON'T," RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. LET'S CONTINUE ON.

(AT 11:52 TO 11:53, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU THEN KIND OF VOLUNTEERED THAT IT WAS THE EX-WIFE OF A PROMINENT SPORTSCASTER OR WHATEVER, WAS A HIGH PROFILE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND HE HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING THAT AT THIS POINT. YOU WERE JUST TRYING TO GET A NUMBER TO GET THEM ALERTED, WEREN'T YOU? ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: WELL, HE ASKED ME A QUESTION AND I GAVE HIM AN ANSWER.

Q: WELL, WAIT A MINUTE. YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER AND PEOPLE ASK YOU QUESTIONS ALL THE TIME AND YOU DON'T WANT TO ANSWER; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES NOT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO IN THIS INSTANCE, IF YOU WERE CONCERNED ABOUT KEEPING THIS MATTER QUIET AND NOT GETTING ANY GREAT PUBLICITY, THERE WAS NO OBLIGATION ON YOU TO SAY TO MR. WILLIS THAT, "IT'S GOING TO BE A HIGH PROFILE TYPE DEAL, IT'S THE EX-WIFE OF A VERY PROMINENT SPORTSCAST STAR OR SPORT CELEBRITY." YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TELL THEM THAT, DID YOU?

A: I DIDN'T HAVE TO, NO.

Q: BUT YOU DID, DIDN'T YOU?

A: I DID.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, HE THEN GOES ON AND ASKS YOU, "CAN YOU GIVE ME THE NAME"; IS THAT CORRECT?

MR. COCHRAN: PICK IT UP THERE.

(AT 11:54 TO 11:54, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: SO NOW, YOU TOLD HIM YOU HAD TO TRUST HIM ON THIS. DID YOU KNOW THIS MAN BEFORE THIS, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A: OH, I'VE TALKED TO HIM BEFORE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT HAD YOU EVER MET HIM PERSONALLY?

A: I MAY HAVE.

Q: WELL --

A: WELL, I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN I MET A LOT OF GUYS DOWN AT THE CORONER'S OFFICE. I MAY HAVE MET THE MEAN, I MAY NEVER HAVE MET THE MAN. I RECOGNIZED THE NAME FROM CALLING IN SEVERAL TIMES.

Q: OH, I UNDERSTAND. BUT YOU CAN'T -- AS YOU SIT HERE NOW, CAN YOU PLACE THE FACE WITH THE PERSON?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, WOULD YOU -- WERE YOU SUCH GOOD FRIENDS THAT YOU COULD TRUST HIM ON THIS?

A: WELL, HE'S A CORONER'S OFFICE EXAMINER I AM CALLING TO AND TALKING TO. SO I DID TRUST HIM.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT IF YOU WANTED TO KEEP THIS LOW PROFILE AND KIND OF A SECRET AT THIS POINT, WHY WOULD YOU SHARE THIS WITH HIM? IT WASN'T NECESSARY AT THIS POINT, WAS IT?

A: IT WASN'T NECESSARY, BUT I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS UNNECESSARY EITHER. SO I JUST DID.

Q: SO YOU DID AT ANY RATE. ALL RIGHT.

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO ON, MR. HARRIS.

(AT 11:55 TO 11:55, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, AGAIN, YOU HAD -- BY THE TIME YOU MADE THIS CALL AT 6:50, YOU FELT THAT YOU SHOULD TELL THIS PERSON ON THE OTHER END OF THE PHONE THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS IN CHICAGO?

A: EVIDENTLY I DID. I DID.

Q: WELL, I MEAN YOU HEARD --

A: I SAID EVIDENTLY I DID. SO I MUST HAVE TOLD HIM.

Q: ALL RIGHT. LET'S CONTINUE ON.

(AT 11:55 TO 11:56, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

MR. COCHRAN: STOP THERE.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, HE WAS ASKING AT THIS POINT WHETHER OR NOT THE CORONER'S OFFICER COULD COME OUT RIGHT THEN; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU HADN'T MADE A CALL BEFORE THIS, HAD YOU?

A: NO.

Q: SO WITH REGARD TO THIS FIRST CALL POLICY, ON SOME TIMES, THE CORONER COULD COME IMMEDIATELY AT THE TIME OF THE FIRST CALL; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. NOW, AT THIS POINT, SINCE YOU WERE JUST DOING A FAVOR FOR DETECTIVE LANGE -- IS THAT CORRECT? YOU HAD TO TALK TO TOM LANGE ABOUT WHAT COMES NEXT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: TOM LANGE WAS REQUESTING I MAKE THIS PHONE CALL FOR HIM.

Q: OKAY. LET'S PROCEED ON THEN.

(AT 11:57 TO 11:57, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME, THE BEST WAY OF NOT GETTING SOMETHING OUT IS NOT TO TELL SOMEBODY?

A: IN HINDSIGHT, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. I JUST WANTED TO SEE IF WE AGREE ON THAT.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. CONTINUE ON.

(AT 11:58 TO 11:58, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER THAT THAT CALL WAS AT 6:49 IN THE MORNING, AND THAT WAS THE SO-CALLED FIRST CALL, AFTER THAT, YOU STILL REMAINED AT THE SCENE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: I JUST STOOD AROUND, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. AND YOU HAD OCCASION TO MAKE ANOTHER CALL WHICH WE NOW WAS ABOUT 8:08; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAVE THE TRANSCRIPT BEFORE YOU.

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL ASK MR. HARRIS BEFORE WE BREAK FOR LUNCH, YOUR HONOR, TO PLAY -- THIS IS THE SECOND PART OF THE TAPE, THE SECOND TAPE.

(AT 11:58 TO 12:02, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHO WERE YOU TALKING TO? TOM LANGE?

A: TOM LANGE.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

(AT 12:02 TO 12:02, DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT 1019, AN AUDIOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, JUST TO -- IN THIS PORTION, SIR, THAT CALL STARTED 8:08 AND APPARENTLY LASTED MAYBE 10 MINUTES OR SO. WERE YOU STILL AT THE SCENE BY 10:00 O'CLOCK?

A: I'M SORRY. WAS I --

Q: WERE YOU STILL AT BUNDY THERE UNTIL 10:00 O'CLOCK THAT MORNING, A.M.?

A: I BELIEVE SO.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHAT TIME THE CORONER FINALLY ARRIVED THAT MORNING?

A: NO. I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CRIME SCENE LOG TO KNOW THAT, SIR.

Q: AND WOULD THE CRIME SCENE LOG HELP YOU IN DETERMINING THAT?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, WE'LL FIND THAT OUT RIGHT AFTER LUNCH. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. PERHAPS THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE PLACE.

THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE NOON HOUR. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITIONS TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS, DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU REGARDING THE CASE, DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE CASE. AND WE WILL RECONVENE AT 1:30. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, YOU ARE EXCUSED UNTIL 1:30. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

(AT 12:05 P.M., THE NOON RECESS WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.)

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 1995 1:30 P.M.

DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT WITH HIS COUNSEL. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS IS PRESENT IN THE COURTROOM ON THE WITNESS STAND. MR. DOUGLAS, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO ADDRESS TO THE COURT BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO REJOIN US?

MR. DOUGLAS: DURING OUR CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MR. PHILLIPS WE WOULD INTEND --

MR. COCHRAN: WE MAY WANT TO HAVE HIM STEP OUT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, WHY DON'T YOU STEP OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM AND WAIT FOR US, PLEASE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS OKAY. THANK YOU. EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. ONE PERSON AT A TIME. I VIOLATED THE RULE.

THE COURT: AGAIN.

MR. DOUGLAS: DURING THE CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MR. PHILLIPS, YOUR HONOR, WE ARE -- WE WOULD LIKE TO SHOW PORTIONS OF A VIDEOTAPE THAT WE RECEIVED YESTERDAY. NBC APPARENTLY RENTED THE ROCKINGHAM -- THE BUNDY CONDOMINIUM ON TUESDAY AND TOOK A TOUR AND AMONG THE ITEMS THAT THEY SHOWED ON THE TOUR WAS THE TELEPHONE WITH THE SPEEDY DIALER AND CERTAIN NOTATIONS SUCH AS "DADDY" AND "DIITA" AND "CORA" AND "ROBIN" AND "PAM" AND WE WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THAT TO MR. PHILLIPS, BUT WE WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THE TAPE RIGHT NOW.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT BEFORE WE HAVE -- HAS THE PROSECUTION SEEN IT?

MS. CLARK: NO.

MR. DOUGLAS: WE JUST GOT IT YESTERDAY.

MR. COCHRAN: JUST SHOWN YESTERDAY.

MR. DOUGLAS: JUST ON T.V. YESTERDAY.

MR. BAILEY: IT WAS ON THE TODAY SHOW.

MR. DOUGLAS: CORRECT. WITHOUT THE SOUND.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. HARRIS, DO WE HAVE THIS AVAILABLE, PLEASE?

MR. HARRIS: YES, YOUR HONOR. IT IS COMING UP NOW.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. DOUGLAS: YOUR HONOR, WE WOULD INTEND SHOWING ONLY THE PORTION DEALING WITH THE TELEPHONE, BUT WE ARE JUST GIVING CONTEXT RIGHT NOW.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(AT 1:33 P.M., A VIDEOTAPE, WAS PLAYED.)

THE COURT: DO WE HAVE FREEZE FRAME CAPABILITY ON THIS VCR?

MR. DOUGLAS: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THERE IS OUR REALTOR AND SHE WAS VERY GRACIOUS DURING OUR TOUR OF THE CRIME SCENE.

MR. DOUGLAS: RIGHT THERE.

MR. COCHRAN: FREEZE TIME.

MR. DOUGLAS: IT SAYS, "DADDY, DIITA, OPA, CORA, ROBIN AND PAM" AND DIITA AND OPA IS GERMAN FOR GRANDMA, GRANDPA.

MS. CLARK: NO. DIITA IS NOT. DIITA IS THE NAME.

THE COURT: DIITA IS JUDITHA.

MR. DOUGLAS: YES, YOUR HONOR, I'M SORRY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. JUST THAT ONE LITTLE SPOT.

MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR.

MR. DOUGLAS: WE WANT TO GIVE HIM CONTEXT SO EVERYONE CAN SEE WHERE THAT COMES IN.

THE COURT: CAN YOU BACK THAT UP A LITTLE, MR. HARRIS.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I TAKE IT THIS IS IN THE NATURE OF A 402 HEARING THAT WE ARE CONDUCTING NOW?

MR. DOUGLAS: YES, YOUR HONOR, IT IS.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. YOU MAY PROCEED.

MR. DOUGLAS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE SOME QUESTIONS THAT YOU WANT TO ASK OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

MR. DOUGLAS: AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME THERE WILL BE.

MR. DARDEN: FREEZE FRAME JUST THE TELEPHONE, RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: JUST THE TELEPHONE.

MR. DARDEN: NO OBJECTION.

THE COURT: MR. HARRIS, CAN WE HAVE GET UP TO THAT SPOT SO WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE JUST FROZEN ON?

MR. HARRIS: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THERE IT IS RIGHT THERE. SEE IF YOU CAN GET A SHARPER FRAME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE PROCEED?

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE ONE MOMENT WITH COUNSEL, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, HAVE WE FINISHED OUR PREPARATIONS?

MR. COCHRAN: I THINK WE ARE READY. I WANT HIM TO GET THE AUDIOTAPE BACK IN AND THEN I THINK WE ARE READY TO PROCEED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: IT WILL JUST TAKE A SECOND.

THE COURT: DO YOU NEED TO CUE THAT TAPE UP, MR. COCHRAN?

MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE JUST ASKED HIM TO CUE IT UP TO A PARTICULAR POINT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. HOLD ON.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THIS WITNESS NEVER SAW THE SPEED DIALER. WHY ARE WE SHOWING THIS WITNESS?

THE COURT: WELL, THEY CAN ASK IF HE SAW IT. YOU SAID YOU HAD NO OBJECTION TO IT BEING SHOWN.

MS. CLARK: AND I DON'T. I DON'T MIND IT BEING SHOWN. THE THING IS THAT IT SHOULD BE SHOWN WITH THE WITNESS WHO SAW IT, WHICH IS WAITING -- WHO IS WAITING TO TESTIFY RIGHT AFTER THIS ONE.

THE COURT: HOLD ON. MISS CLARK, DO YOU HAVE AN OBJECTION TO SHOWING IT?

MS. CLARK: IN GENERAL, NO. WITH THIS WITNESS THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THERE IS NO FOUNDATION HERE. THERE IS NO REASON TO SHOW TO IT A WITNESS WHO NEVER SAW IT. THERE IS NOTHING TO BE GAINED BY IT. DETECTIVE LANGE, WHO WILL TESTIFY IMMEDIATELY AFTER DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, DID.

MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS CROSS-EXAMINATION AND IT WILL NOT PROLONG THE SITUATION.

THE COURT: WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE IF THIS WITNESS NEVER SAW IT?

MR. COCHRAN: IT MAY NOT BE RELEVANT IF HE NEVER SAW IT, YOUR HONOR, BUT WE KNOW THAT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT WE WENT UP AND HE JUST TOLD ME.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR --

MR. COCHRAN: WHO SAYS I WOULD EVEN ASK HIM?

MS. CLARK: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS JUST TOLD COUNSEL THAT HE DIDN'T SEE IT. MR. COCHRAN: I SAID THAT, COUNSEL. I SAID THAT, AND I'M NOT -- I'M NOT GOING TO BE WASTING TIME AND THERE WILL BE OTHER OFFICERS HERE, AS LONG AS SHE REPRESENTS SOMEBODY SAW THAT SPEED DIALER. IS THAT YOUR REPRESENTATION?

MS. CLARK: THAT IS. THAT IS.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOU KNOW, IT IS PART OF THE CROSS-EXAMINATION, YOUR HONOR. THEY MAY WANT TO KNOW IF HE DIDN'T SEE IT.

MS. CLARK: CROSS-EXAMINATION DOES HAVE TO BE RELEVANT, DOESN'T IT?

THE COURT: IT DOES.

MR. COCHRAN: I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE IT WITH THE WITNESS HERE, BUT THAT IS A POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE. WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT I WILL APPROACH THE BENCH.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT.

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO ASK FOR A SIDE BAR, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WELL, WE ARE HERE.

MR. COCHRAN: I SAID --

MS. CLARK: LET'S DO IT NOW.

THE COURT: LET'S TALK ABOUT IT.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY.

THE COURT: WE AGREE THAT IT IS PROBABLY THE SPEED DIALER THAT WAS THERE?

MR. COCHRAN: WE SURELY DO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHAT IS THE POINT -- THIS IS NOT THE DETECTIVE. THIS IS SOMEBODY WHO TOOK A CURSORY RUN-THROUGH.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, JUDGE, HE WAS IN CHARGE FOR TWO HOURS, FROM 2:10 TO 4:10. HE WAS INSIDE THAT HOUSE ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS. HE WANTED TO KNOW WHERE O.J. SIMPSON --

THE COURT: YOU ARE RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: IF THERE IS A SPEED DIALER IN THE KITCHEN THAT HAS "DADDY," YOUR HONOR --

THE COURT: I JUST SAID YOU ARE RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, HE WAS NOT INSIDE FROM 2:10 TO 4:10.

THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND.

MS. CLARK: THE TESTIMONY MAKES THAT VERY CLEAR.

THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT MR. COCHRAN IS MAKING THE POINT THAT THERE WAS THE ABILITY TO JUST WALK OVER TO THE PHONE, IF THEY KNEW -- SINCE THEY KNEW THAT SYDNEY -- SYDNEY AND JUSTIN WERE THE CHILDREN OF MR. SIMPSON AND IF THERE IS A DADDY ON THE SPEED DIALER, THERE WAS AN EASY WAY TO HAVE CONTACT AT THE RESIDENCE. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT IT IS WORTH AND THAT WILL TAKE ABOUT FORTY SECONDS WORTH OF TESTIMONY.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WERE YOU AWARE OF THE SPEED DIALER? NO. DID YOU SEE THIS PHONE? NO, I DIDN'T. SOMEBODY ELSE WILL COME UP AND SAY WHAT IT IS. IT IS INTERESTING WHOSE NAME IS NOT ON THERE.

MR. COCHRAN: WHO IS THAT?

THE COURT: SIDE BAR WITHOUT THE REPORTER.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THAT WAS OUR ONE LIGHT MOMENT FOR THE DAY. ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, LET'S HAVE THE JURY.

MR. COCHRAN: YES, WE ARE. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD AFTERNOON.

THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT DETECTIVE RONALD PHILLIPS IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND.

RONALD PHILLIPS, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE NOON RECESS, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: GOOD AFTERNOON, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

THE WITNESS: GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR.

THE COURT: YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. COCHRAN, YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR.

CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: GOOD AFTERNOON, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS.

A: GOOD AFTERNOON.

Q: WHEN WE BROKE AT LUNCHTIME WE WERE GOING TO SEE THROUGH YOUR NOTES OR THE LOG WHICH HAS BEEN MARKED NOW AS DEFENSE EXHIBIT 1006, WHAT TIME THE CORONER FINALLY ARRIVED IN THIS MATTER TO THE BUNDY LOCATION. DO YOU HAVE SOME NOTES WHICH WOULD HELP YOU IN THAT REGARD, SIR?

A: NO. I REVIEWED THE CRIME LOG AT THE D.A.'S OFFICE.

Q: IN THE D.A.'S OFFICE OVER THE LUNCH HOUR?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU TALKING WITH MISS CLARK DURING THAT TIME?

A: YES.

Q: AND WITH MR. DARDEN?

A: MISS CLARK.

Q: AND AT THAT TIME, IN REVIEWING THAT CRIME LOG, DID IT ASSIST YOU IN DETERMINING WHAT TIME THE CORONERS FINALLY ARRIVED AT THE BUNDY STREET LOCATION ON JUNE 13, 1994?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND WHAT TIME WAS THAT, SIR?

A: 9:10 IN THE MORNING.

Q: AND YOU WERE AWARE THAT OFFICER RISKE FIRST DISCOVERED THESE BODIES SOMETIME AROUND 12:10 WHEN HE ARRIVED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: THIS WAS SOME NINE HOURS AFTER THAT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO -- BEFORE WE FINALLY LEAVE THE TAPE, YOUR HONOR, I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT AS WE PASSED THE TRANSCRIPT OUT TO THE JURY, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE NUMBERED THAT. I WOULD ASK LEAVE NOW TO NUMBER THAT 1019, DEFENDANT'S 1019 AND THE TAPE -- THE TAPE WILL BE 1019 AND THE TRANSCRIPTS WHICH THE JURY HAD WILL BE 1019-A IF THE COURT PLEASES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: WE HAVE DONE THAT WITH THE CLERK OVER THE LUNCH HOUR, YOUR HONOR.

(DEFT'S 1019 FOR ID = AUDIOTAPE) (DEFT'S 1019-A FOR ID = TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIOTAPE)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD JUST LIKE TO GO BACK BRIEFLY, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, TO THAT TAPE THAT WE PLAYED THIS MORNING.

Q: WITH REGARD TO YOUR STATEMENT THAT WE'RE KIND -- "WE KIND OF NOT FOLLOWING PROCEDURE," WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT, WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE FACT YOU WEREN'T FOLLOWING PROCEDURE IN GIVING IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION TO THE CORONER?

A: NO.

Q: BUT YOU WEREN'T FOLLOWING THAT PROCEDURE EITHER, WERE YOU, AT THAT TIME?

A: OKAY.

Q: "BUT WE'RE KIND OF ASKING A FAVOR." NOW, IN SAYING THAT, YOU WERE ASKING THIS MAN WILLIS A FAVOR AT THAT POINT, THE CORONER'S OFFICE?

A: I WAS ASKING A FAVOR, YES.

Q: OKAY. LET ME GET TO IT. "WE'RE KIND OF ASKING A FAVOR AND, YOU KNOW, KIND OF WORK A LITTLE BIT ON THIS ONE." REMEMBER USING THOSE WORDS?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN -- AT THAT POINT, WHEN YOU TOLD HIM YOU WEREN'T FOLLOWING PROCEDURE, IT WAS ABOUT 6:50 A.M. ON THE 13TH, RIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND AT THAT POINT HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT THERE WAS A DOUBLE HOMICIDE OUT AT BUNDY; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: HE DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER THEY WERE MALES OR FEMALES OR WHATEVER; ISN'T THAT CORRECT, AT THAT POINT?

A: WELL, SOMETIME IN THE CONVERSATION I TOLD HIM THEY WERE MALE AND A FEMALE.

Q: I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE IT BEFORE YOU BUT THIS IS AT THE VERY FIRST POINT OF THE CONVERSATION, AND AT THAT POINT YOU JUST SAID YOU HAD A DOUBLE HOMICIDE, I BELIEVE.

A: OKAY.

Q: SO HE WOULD ONLY FIND OUT THAT WHICH YOU WOULD TELL HIM; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO IF YOU HAD WANTED, TO AS AN EXPERIENCED DETECTIVE, YOU COULD HAVE JUST TOLD HIM THAT WE HAVE A DOUBLE HOMICIDE OUT HERE ON BUNDY, WE ARE NOT READY FOR YOU YET, WE WILL CALL YOU BACK, GIVE US SOME NUMBERS AND LET US KNOW HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO GET OUT HERE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? YOU COULD HAVE DONE THAT, COULDN'T YOU?

A: COULD IT HAVE BEEN DONE THAT WAY, SURE.

Q: NOW, TOM LANGE DIDN'T INSTRUCT YOU, WHEN YOU WERE DOING HIM A FAVOR, TO GO AND TELL HIM THIS WAS THE EX-WIFE OF A VERY PROMINENT SPORTSCAST STAR OR SUPPOSED CELEBRITY? TOM LANGE DIDN'T TELL YOU TO DO THAT, DID HE?

A: NO, BUT I WAS INFORMING THE CORONER'S OFFICE OF THAT.

Q: THE QUESTION IS TOM LANGE DIDN'T ASK YOU TO TELL THE CORONER'S OFFICE, DID HE?

A: NO, HE DID NOT.

Q: YOU DID THAT ON YOUR OWN, DIDN'T YOU?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHEN HE ASKED YOU "CAN YOU GIVE ME THE NAME," THAT IS WHAT WILLIS ASKED YOU AND YOU SAID: "WELL, I -- YOU ARE NOT -- YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LET -- NOT GOING TO LET THIS" AND HE GOES AND SAYS, "NO, I'M AN INVESTIGATOR." YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO GIVE HIM THE NAME EITHER, DID YOU?

A: I DID NOT HAVE TO GIVE IT TO HIM.

Q: AND WHEN YOU STOPPED TO REFER TO A TOM DURING THE PROGRESS OF THIS TAPE, YOU WERE TALKING TO TOM LANGE WHO WAS THEN ONE OF THE INVESTIGATORS FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE?

A: HE WAS THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR ON THE CASE.

Q: WAS HE THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR OR WAS VANNATTER THE LEAD?

A: AT THE BUNDY LOCATION AT THAT TIME OF THE MORNING HE WAS THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR BECAUSE VANNATTER WAS SOME PLACE ELSE.

Q: VANNATTER WAS NOT THERE AT THAT POINT?

A: NO, HE WAS NOT.

Q: AS BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM, WHEN THEY WERE BOTH AT BUNDY, VANNATTER IS THE LEAD; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, MR. COCHRAN, I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE OF THOSE TWO IS THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR ON THIS CASE. I KNOW THEY ARE JOINT LEAD INVESTIGATORS. IF ONE OUTRANKS THE OTHER OR HAS MORE TIME, I DON'T KNOW.

Q: OKAY. I WANT YOU TO BE HONEST WITH US.

A: I AM. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. NOW, WHEN YOU TALKED TO MR. WILLIS ON THIS TAPE HE ASKED YOU -- STRIKE THAT. MR. WILLIS SAID: "OKAY. ARE THESE BOTH GUNSHOT WOUNDS?" AND YOUR RESPONSE WAS ESSENTIALLY: "THEY WERE EITHER SHOT OR BLUDGEONED TO DEATH"; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT IS WHAT I SAID.

Q: AND SO AT 6:49 TO SEVEN O'CLOCK, AT THAT TIME IN THE MORNING YOU DID NOT KNOW HOW THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS HAD LOST THEIR LIVES; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: I MADE A MISTAKE, MR. COCHRAN. I SHOULD NEVER HAVE SAID THAT STATEMENT WITHOUT KNOWING HOW THEY DIED.

Q: I KNOW. I UNDERSTAND -- I'M NOT CRITICIZING YOU MAKING A MISTAKE. THAT IS NOT ABOUT CRITICIZING YOU. I'M JUST ASKING YOU AT THAT TIME YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW THEY DIED?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: THAT IS THE POINT, THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW, SO THAT WHEN YOU TALKED TO MR. SIMPSON SOME TIME AROUND, WHAT TIME, SIX O'CLOCK --

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS 6:05.

Q: -- YOU DIDN'T KNOW HOW THESE PEOPLE HAD DIED, HAD YOU -- DID YOU?

A: I DID NOT KNOW HOW THEY DIED.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO WHEN YOU MAKE THE STATEMENT THEY WERE EITHER SHOT OR BLUDGEONED TO DEATH, THAT WAS SPECULATION ON YOUR PART, BUT YOU JUST DIDN'T KNOW HOW THEY DIED AT THAT POINT; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE CRIME SCENE LOG, SINCE YOU LOOKED AT IT OVER THE LUNCHTIME, UNDER "PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN," WHAT TIME DID YOU AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN LEAVE THE SCENE -- LEAVE THE BUNDY SCENE THAT MORNING, PER THE LOG?

A: I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS ON THE LOG, SIR.

Q: WELL, LET ME SEE -- I WILL