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LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1995 9:22 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.) (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (PAGES 14313 THROUGH 14322, VOLUME 86A, TRANSCRIBED AND SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL. MS. CLARK: GOOD MORNING. THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN. IS MR. DARDEN WITH US TODAY? MS. CLARK: HE HAD TO BE EXCUSED BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. IS HE IS GOING TO BE BACK SHORTLY? MS. CLARK: VERY SHORTLY, YOUR HONOR, BUT WE CAN PROCEED. MR. COCHRAN: WE CAN PROCEED. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BEFORE WE RESUME WITH THE JURY AND THE WITNESS, ROBERT RISKE, I JUST WANT TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO THANK BOTH THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT FOR THEIR EFFORTS IN COORDINATING OUR CRIME SCENE VIEW ON SUNDAY. I THINK IT WENT AMAZINGLY WELL. IT WAS A VERY, VERY SMOOTH OPERATION. I THOUGHT THAT THE INTRUSION UPON THE COMMUNITIES WAS AS MINIMAL, AS WAS REQUIRED UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. I APPRECIATE THE COOPERATION OF THE NEWS MEDIA HELICOPTERS STAYING OUT OF EARSHOT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I APPRECIATE THE COOPERATION OF THE PRESS AND NOT BEING OVERLY AGGRESSIVE. AND I APPRECIATE THE PATIENCE AND COOPERATION OF COUNSEL IN ACCOMPLISHING THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT WENT LIKE CLOCKWORK, LITERALLY, AND I THINK IT WAS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW CRIME SCENE VIEWS OUGHT TO BE HANDLED AND THERE WERE NO GLITCHES. MR. COCHRAN: I THINK THE COURT IS AWARE FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE DEFENSE, AT THE SCENE ON SUNDAY WE EXPRESSED THAT WE FELT IT WAS THE ESSENCE OF PROFESSIONALISM THE WAY THIS WAS CONDUCTED AND WE APPLAUDED ALL THE VARIOUS AGENCIES THAT CAME TOGETHER TO WORK AND SHOW HOW THINGS CAN REALLY WORK WELL. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING ELSE WE NEED TO PUT ON THE RECORD BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO REJOIN US? ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE. THE COURT: OFFICER RISKE, WOULD YOU COME FORWARD, PLEASE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THE JURY: GOOD MORNING. THE COURT: YOU LOOK WELL-RESTED AND WELL SHOPPED, I UNDERSTAND. ALL RIGHT. I SEE SMILES THERE. THANK YOU. LET ME THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND COOPERATION DURING OUR VISIT TO THE SCENE ON SUNDAY. I REALIZE THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF WAITING INVOLVED FOR YOU; HOWEVER, I FELT THAT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT THAT ALL OF US GO OUT THERE AND LOOK AT THESE LOCATIONS PERSONALLY TO UNDERSTAND THE PERSPECTIVES AND THE DISTANCES OF THE PARTICULAR LOCATIONS, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE AND COOPERATION DURING OUR VISIT. ROBERT RISKE, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE EVENING ADJOURNMENT, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS: THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT ROBERT RISKE IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND. MR. RISKE, YOU ARE ADVISED THAT YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MR. COCHRAN, YOU MAY RESUME YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THE JURY: GOOD MORNING. CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: GOOD MORNING, OFFICER RISKE? A: GOOD MORNING, SIR. Q: WITH REGARD TO THE DOG, YOU SAW THIS AKITA DOG WHILE YOU WERE OUT THERE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DO YOU KNOW AND CAN YOU TELL US WHAT WAS DONE WITH THE DOG THAT PARTICULAR MORNING? A: IT WAS TAKEN TO ANIMAL REGULATIONS. Q: WAS THAT WHILE YOU WERE THERE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND DO YOU KNOW WHO SPECIFICALLY THAT DOG WAS TURNED OVER TO AT ANIMAL REGULATIONS? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: THAT IS A CITY AGENCY, IS IT NOT? A: YES, SIR. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT ANYONE AT ANY TIME EXAMINED THAT ANIMAL TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE THAT HE HAD BIT ANYONE THAT NIGHT? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT ANYTHING WAS DONE TO PRESERVE THIS BLOOD THAT WE HAVE HEARD WAS ON THE DOG'S PAWS AND HIND LEGS? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: WERE YOU AT THE SCENE WHEN THIS ANIMAL WAS TURNED OVER TO SOMEONE AT ANIMAL REGULATIONS? A: NO, I WASN'T. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THAT WAS DONE? A: OFFICER GLORIOSO AND HIS PARTNER TOOK THE DOG. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME THEY LEFT. Q: SO THEY TOOK THE DOG AT THE SCENE? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: THEY THEN TOOK HIM TO SOME OTHER LOCATION? A: RIGHT. Q: IN THEIR POLICE CAR? A: YES. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN ANY REPORTS OF WHAT THEY DID WITH THE DOG AND WHO THEY TURNED THE DOG OVER TO? A: NO, I HAVEN'T. Q: WHAT WAS GLORIOSO'S PARTNER'S NAME, SIR, IF YOU RECALL? A: I BELIEVE HIS PARTNER WAS OFFICER ZEIGLER. Q: ZEIGLER? A: I BELIEVE. I'M NOT POSITIVE. Q: OKAY. NOW, TURNING OUR ATTENTION BACK TO THE INTERIOR OF 875 BUNDY, AT ANY TIME -- BEFORE WE GET TO THE INTERIOR, AT ANY TIME THAT MORNING DID YOU EVER GO TO 873, THE UNIT JUST TO THE -- THE SIDE OF 875? DID YOU GO TOWARD DOROTHY STREET? DID YOU EVER GO OVER THERE AND KNOCK ON THAT DOOR AND TRY TO ROUSE ANYBODY THERE? A: TOWARD DOROTHY WOULD BE 877. Q: 877. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 877 AS OPPOSED TO 873 WHICH WOULD BE -- A: NO. I KNOW THERE WAS A DOOR KNOCK BUT I DIDN'T DO IT PERSONALLY, NO. Q: SOMEBODY DID GO KNOCK ON THAT DOOR? A: I DON'T KNOW. Q: DID YOU EVER GO TO THE HOUSE THAT IS ON THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: YOU DID NOT DO THAT YOURSELF? A: NO. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE INTERIOR OF BUNDY, WAS ANYONE IN CHARGE OF LOOKING AT THE ITEMS OR EXAMINING ANY ITEMS INSIDE THE INTERIOR OF BUNDY? A: I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THAT. Q: WE KNOW THAT YOU WERE THE FIRST OFFICER WHO WENT INSIDE THERE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND IN THE COURSE OF YOUR SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE DID YOU EVER LOOK AT THE -- LOOK IN THE TRASH CANS INSIDE THE BUNDY LOCATION? A: MY PURPOSE FOR BEING IN THE HOUSE WASN'T TO SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE. MY PURPOSE FOR BEING IN THE HOUSE WASN'T TO SEARCH FOR EVIDENCE, SIR. Q: I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU TOLD US AT SOME POINT YOU SEARCHED IN THE TRASH CANS OUTSIDE AND AROUND. REMEMBER THAT? AND I WAS JUST ASKING DID YOU EVER SEARCH ANY OF THE TRASH CANS INSIDE OF BUNDY? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OTHER OFFICER DID AT ALL? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE INTERIOR LOCATION, SO THAT I'M CLEAR, WE HAD A JURY VIEW ON SUNDAY SO THAT THINGS MAY BE A LITTLE CLEARER, IF YOU CAN HELP US WITH THIS, WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU SAW THIS ICE CREAM CUP ON THIS BANISTER ON JUNE 13 IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS? A: BETWEEN 12:30, 12:40 IN THE MORNING. Q: 12:30 TO 12:40? AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, THIS ICE CREAM CUP WAS ON THE BANISTER AS YOU GO DOWN THE STEPS AND GOING OUT TO THE GARAGE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: DID YOU EVER LIFT THAT ICE CREAM CUP UP? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: COULD YOU TELL FROM THE CONDITION OF THAT MELTING ICE CREAM, AS YOU HAVE DESCRIBED IT, WHAT WAS THE FLAVOR OF THE ICE CREAM? A: I HAVE NO IDEA. Q: CAN YOU TELL WHETHER IT WAS ONE SCOOP OR TWO SCOOPS OR WHATEVER? A: NO, I HAVE NO IDEA. Q: DID YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO LIFT THE CONTAINER UP? A: NO. Q: SO YOU NEVER SAW UNDER IT AS TO WHETHER IT LEFT A RING OR ANYTHING? A: NO. Q: YOU NEVER DID THAT? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: HOW MANY OFFICERS, IN ADDITION TO YOU THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF, SAW THE MELTING ICE CREAM CUP THERE ON THAT BANISTER AS YOU ARE GOING OUT THE BACK THERE? A: INCLUDING THE EXECUTIVES? Q: YES, EVERYBODY THAT YOU KNOW WHO SAW IT THAT YOU POINTED IT OUT TO. A: FIVE. I DON'T KNOW. Q: ALL RIGHT. TELL US WHO THOSE FIVE WOULD BE, SIR. A: OFFICER WALLEY, DETECTIVES FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS AND VANNATTER AND LANGE. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO ALL FOUR OF THE DETECTIVES, WALLEY AND YOURSELF? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: SO THAT WOULD BE SIX ALTOGETHER? A: ALTOGETHER, YES. Q: AND WHEN YOU LAST SAW THIS MELTING ICE CREAM, IT WAS STILL ON THIS BANISTER; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: WITH THE SPOON HAVING FALLEN DOWN ON THE GROUND RIGHT BELOW IT; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO -- WHILE WE ARE IN THAT BACK PART OF THE HOUSE, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THE OTHER DAY THAT THE JEEP WAS OUTSIDE THE RESIDENCE WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THAT THE RIGHT PASSENGER DOOR -- THAT IS THE RIGHT FRONT PASSENGER DOOR OF THAT JEEP WAS OPENED? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND IN AN OPENED CONDITION OF THAT RIGHT FRONT PASSENGER DOOR, WOULD THERE BE AN INTERIOR LIGHT ON? A: THE DOOR WAS AJAR. I DON'T REMEMBER IF THE LIGHT WAS ON OR NOT. Q: SO YOU CAN'T TELL US ONE WAY OR THE OTHER? A: NO. Q: BUT THE DOOR WAS AJAR? A: RIGHT. Q: SO IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU WALK OVER TO THAT DOOR, COULD YOU JUST OPEN IT? A: NO. Q: WAS IT LOCKED AND AJAR OR WAS IT -- DID YOU TRY TO OPEN IT? A: IT WAS -- I DIDN'T TRY TO OPEN IT, BUT IT WAS -- IT WAS CLOSED, BUT NOT ALL THE WAY. IT WAS LOCKED, BUT YOU COULDN'T OPEN IT, BUT IT WASN'T CLOSED ALL THE WAY. Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW THAT IT WAS LOCKED? A: NO. IT WAS CLOSED. I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS LOCKED. Q: IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DIDN'T TRY TO GET INSIDE THERE? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: LOOK TO SEE IF ANYTHING WAS INSIDE THERE? A: NO. Q: DO YOU KNOW IF ANY OF THE OFFICERS THERE LOOKED INSIDE THE JEEP THAT MORNING? A: NO. Q: YOU CAN TELL US THE DOOR WAS AJAR? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND NOBODY EVER TRIED IT, RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, OBJECTION. THAT IS NOT HIS TESTIMONY, THAT NOBODY EVER TRIED IT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOBODY THAT YOU KNOW OF TRIED IT; IS THAT RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING. ALL RIGHT. NOW, SIR, WITH REGARD TO THIS, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THE OTHER DAY, I BELIEVE, THAT YOU SAID THAT THERE WAS A DIME AND A PENNY IN THIS DRIVEWAY NORTH OF THE JEEP? A: I DIDN'T SAY THAT, SIR. I SAID THERE WAS CHANGE. Q: CHANGE? OKAY. DO YOU RECALL WHAT THE DENOMINATION OF THE CHANGE WAS? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: DO YOU RECALL THERE WAS TWO DIMES AND TWO PENNIES OUT THERE? A: I HAVE NO CLUE. Q: YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE. DO YOU RECALL IF THERE WAS MORE THAN TWO PIECES OF CHANGE THERE? A: NO. I DON'T KNOW. Q: YOU DON'T RECALL? A: NO. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS -- A: NO, I HAVEN'T. Q: -- OF THIS SINCE THAT HAPPENED? A: WELL, PHOTOGRAPHS UP HERE. Q: YOU SAW THE PHOTOGRAPHS HERE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THE OTHER DAY WE HAD A PHOTOGRAPH OF A DIME AND A PENNY, I THINK. A: I BELIEVE SO, YES. Q: AND DO YOU RECALL IF THERE WAS MORE CHANGE THAN THAT THERE? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: HAVE YOU SEEN THE POLICE REPORTS IN THAT MATTER THAT HAVE INDICATED THERE WERE TWO DIMES AND TWO PENNIES? A: NO, I HAVEN'T. Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING A SMALL BLUE GLASS HEART OR SOMETHING ON THAT -- ON THE DRIVEWAY IN FRONT OF THE RIGHT TIRE OF THAT JEEP? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: YOU DON'T RECALL SEEING THAT? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: ALSO, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT THIS PHOTOGRAPHER WAS TAKING PICTURES OF THE BACK AREA. WAS THAT PART OF THE AREA THEY WERE TAKING PICTURES OF WHERE THE CHANGE WAS AND WHERE THIS HEART MIGHT BE? A: HE WAS TAKING PICTURES OF THE ALLEY AND THE RESIDENCE WHEN I WAS THERE. I DON'T REMEMBER HIM TAKING ANY PICTURES OF ANY EVIDENCE. Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE DID YOU EVER SEE ANY POLICE OFFICERS DUST THIS JEEP AT ALL FOR ANY PRINTS OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE? A: NO. Q: DID YOU SEE ANY CRIMINALIST, WHILE YOU WERE THERE, LOOK IN THE ALLEYWAY FOR ANY TRACK MARKS OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE? A: NO. Q: YOU NEVER SAW THAT DONE WHILE YOU WERE THERE? A: NO. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE OTHER PART OF THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US LAST WEEK HOW YOU WALKED KIND OF IN THE PLANT AREA SO YOU WOULDN'T WALK THROUGH THE BLOOD. AND DID YOU GET YOUR SHOES MUDDY, DIRTY DOING THAT? A: I DON'T THINK SO, NO. Q: WHEN YOU WENT INSIDE THE HOUSE, DID YOU TRACK ANY MUD OR DIRT INSIDE? A: NO. Q: ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT? A: POSITIVE. Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU WENT INSIDE TO USE THIS PHONE TO CALL YOUR SUPERIOR, DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU TOLD US THAT YOU SAW THIS ENVELOPE WITH MR. SIMPSON'S NAME ON IT, RETURN ADDRESS? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: DID YOU KEEP THAT ENVELOPE? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: AND WHEN YOU DESCRIBED THAT MR. SIMPSON TO YOUR MIND AT THAT POINT WAS SOMEHOW INVOLVED FROM THAT POINT FORWARD, BASED UPON THAT ENVELOPE IS WHAT YOU SAW; IS THAT RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: NOW, WHEN YOU WENT UPSTAIRS YOU DESCRIBED FOR US SOME CANDLES. I THINK YOU DESCRIBED THREE CANDLES THAT YOU RECALL THAT WERE LIT; IS THAT RIGHT? A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS THREE, YES. Q: DO YOU RECALL ANY MORE BEING LIT? A: NO. Q: ONLY THE THREE? A: YES. Q: AND WHERE WERE THOSE THREE? A: THEY WOULD BE TO THE WEST THE BATHTUB ON THE COUNTER. Q: WEST OF THE BATHTUB AND THAT IS THE BATHTUB IN THE MASTER BEDROOM? A: RIGHT. Q: AND IS THAT THE BATHTUB THAT HAD THIS WATER IN IT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND I MAY HAVE ASKED YOU THIS, BUT WOULD ALLOW ME IF I ASK YOU AGAIN. DID YOU EVER TOUCH THAT WATER? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: YOU DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS HOT OR COLD? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: DID IT SEEM AS THOUGH SOMEBODY HAD ALREADY TAKEN A BATH? A: I COULDN'T TELL. Q: DIDN'T PAY THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO IT? A: NO. Q: THE CANDLES WERE AROUND THE TUB? A: TO THE REAR. Q: TO THE REAR OF THE TUB? A: TO THE WEST. Q: WERE THERE OTHER LIGHTS ON UPSTAIRS ALSO WHEN YOU GOT UP THERE? A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS A TABLE LAMP IN THE MASTER BATH -- I MEAN IN THE MASTER BEDROOM, I'M SORRY, AND THE HALL LIGHT WAS ON. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU -- AS YOU ARE WALKING THROUGH THE HOUSE, DID YOU SEE ANY -- ANY ICE BUCKETS WITH ANY ICE THEREIN OR ANY CHILLED WINE AS THOUGH SOMEBODY MIGHT BE EXPECTING A GUEST? A: NOT THAT I RECALL, NO. Q: YOU DON'T RECALL? IN THE TWO ROOMS WHERE YOU FOUND THE SLEEPING CHILDREN, I ASSUME THOSE LIGHTS WERE OFF IN THOSE PARTICULAR ROOMS? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: DID YOU SEE -- DID YOU LOOK THROUGH ANY OF THE CLOSETS WHILE YOU WERE THERE, THE CLOTHES CLOSETS? A: JUST FOR SUSPECTS. NOT A THOROUGH SEARCH, NO. Q: YOU DIDN'T LOOK FOR ANY PARTICULAR CLOTHES OR TAKE ANY CLOTHES OR ANYTHING? A: NO, NO. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE BEDROOM, IN THAT MASTER BEDROOM, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT THE CLOTHING OR THE BED CLOTHING WAS KIND OF PILED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BED AS THOUGH SOMEBODY HAD BEEN IN BED OR IT HADN'T BEEN MADE UP; IS THAT RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: DID IT APPEAR TO YOU THAT THE OCCUPANT OF THAT HOUSE HAD BEEN EXPECTING SOMEONE TO COME IN, TO COME THERE? A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I COULDN'T TELL. Q: YOU COULDN'T TELL? WAS THERE ANY MUSIC ON INSIDE THE HOUSE WHEN YOU CAME IN OR T.V. ON AT ALL? A: THERE WAS MUSIC. Q: THERE WAS MUSIC ON. AND CAN YOU TELL US WHERE THIS MUSIC WAS COMING FROM, SIR? A: FROM THE LIVING ROOM JUST AS YOU ENTER THE FRONT DOOR. Q: COULD YOU TELL WHAT IT WAS? DID YOU TURN IT OFF AT SOME POINT? A: NO. I DIDN'T TOUCH THE STEREO, NO. Q: IT WAS COMING FROM A STEREO? A: YES. Q: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER IT WAS A CD OR A TAPE OR WHATEVER? A: NO. Q: WHAT KIND OF MUSIC WAS IT? A: JUST LIGHT. I DON'T KNOW. Q: LIGHT MUSIC? A: IT WASN'T ROCK, IT WASN'T COUNTRY; JUST LIGHT, LIKE MAYBE CLASSICAL OR JAZZ. Q: OKAY. SOMETHING LIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: IT WAS PLAYING WHEN YOU FIRST WENT IN THE HOUSE? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: THE SHOES THAT YOU WERE WEARING THIS NIGHT, DO YOU ALWAYS WEAR THOSE SAME SHOES OR DO YOU OWN MORE THAN ONE PAIR OF SHOES? A: I HAVE MORE THAN ONE PAIR. Q: HOW MANY PAIR DID YOU HAVE BACK IN JUNE? A: TWO. Q: IS THAT FAIRLY NORMAL AMONG PATROLMEN? A: YES. Q: LAPD? TWO PAIR OF SHOES? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q: HOW DO YOU DETERMINE? YOU WEAR ONE -- DOES IT DEPEND WHETHER THEY ARE SHINED OR DO YOU JUST WEAR THEM UNTIL THEY WEAR OUT? A: I USUALLY WEAR THE SAME PAIR UNTIL IT RAINS AND THEY GET SOAKED AND THEN I CHANGE UNTIL THEY DRY OUT. Q: SO THEN YOU HAVE A SECOND PAIR? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: NOW, YOU TOLD US THERE WAS MUSIC ON. DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU -- THERE WAS A TELEVISION ON AT ALL, THAT YOU RECALL? A: THERE WAS A TELEVISION ON IN THE MASTER BEDROOM. Q: OKAY. AND IT WAS ON? A: IT WAS ON, YES. Q: AND AGAIN, DID YOU -- YOU JUST LEFT THAT ON? A: JUST LEFT IT ON. Q: YOU LEFT EVERYTHING ON? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: LEFT EVERYTHING ON THAT WAS ON? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: THE STEREO AND THE T.V.? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU LEFT THE BATH WATER IN THE TUB? A: YES, SIR. Q: YOU LEFT THE ICE CREAM MELTING? YOU DIDN'T TAKE ANYTHING? A: I DIDN'T TOUCH ANYTHING. Q: SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, WHILE YOU WERE THERE THE PHOTOGRAPHER NEVER CAME INSIDE AND TOOK THINK PICTURES OF ANYTHING INSIDE THAT PLACE, RIGHT? A: NOT THAT I WAS AWARE OF, NO. Q: YOU NEVER INSTRUCTED HIM TO DO THAT? A: NO. Q: AND IN YOUR PRESENCE YOU NEVER HEARD EITHER PHILLIPS OR FUHRMAN OR LANGE OR VANNATTER INSTRUCT THE PHOTOGRAPHER TO TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THE INTERIOR? A: NO. Q: DID THE -- ANY MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA ARRIVE AT THAT SCENE AT SOME TIME THAT MORNING? A: NOT WHILE I WAS THERE, NO. Q: EVEN WHEN YOU WERE OUT IN THE BACK OR THE FRONT, YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF THE PRESENCE OF ANYONE FROM THE MEDIA AT THE TIME YOU LEFT AT ABOUT 7:15? A: THERE WAS NO MEDIA. Q: OKAY. WE TALKED LAST WEEK ABOUT THE TIME THAT THE DETECTIVES LEFT TO GO OVER TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: I REMEMBER SPEAKING OF IT. Q: WHAT TIME DID THEY LEAVE? A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW. Q: YOU TOLD US THEY WERE GONE ABOUT AN HOUR? A: HOUR, HOUR AND A HALF. Q: YOU THOUGHT THEY GOT BACK ABOUT WHAT TIME? A: BETWEEN 6:30, 6:45. Q: 6:30, 6:45. SO THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT-- IF THEY WERE GONE ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF, THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT ABOUT 5:00, WOULD THAT BE FAIR? A: 5:15, 5:30. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THE SUN CAME UP THAT MORNING IN JUNE? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: SO SOMEWHERE AN HOUR, HOUR AND A HALF AFTER THEY WERE GONE OUT OF YOUR PRESENCE? A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.) Q: WHEN THEY LEFT, WHEN ALL FOUR DETECTIVES LEFT, THE THREE WHO WERE NOW IN CHANGE OF THAT SCENE, WHO WAS IN CHARGE AT THE SCENE AT ROCKINGHAM? A: MY SUPERVISOR. Q: WHO WAS THAT? A: EITHER SERGEANT ROSSI OR SERGEANT COON. Q: THEY WERE BOTH SERGEANTS, SO DID YOU HEAR SOME CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE DETECTIVES WHO WERE NOW LEAVING THE SCENE WHERE THE BODIES WERE TO GO TO SOMEPLACE ELSE? A: NO. Q: AND IT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THESE -- ALL FOUR OF THESE DETECTIVES WERE LEAVING TO GO TO ROCKINGHAM TO NOTIFY MR. SIMPSON? A: I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY WERE GOING. Q: THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU? A: NO. Q: ARE YOU AWARE OF THE LAPD POLICY WITH REGARD TO THE NOTIFICATION OF THE NEXT OF KIN, WHAT THE MANUAL SAYS ABOUT THAT? A: NO. Q: YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF THAT? A: NO. Q: YOU WEREN'T AWARE THEN AND YOU ARE NOT AWARE NOW? A: NO. Q: OKAY. DID YOU EVER HEAR ANYBODY DISCUSS NOTIFYING EITHER THE BROWN FAMILY OR THE GOLDMAN FAMILIES REGARDING THESE TRAGIC DEATHS? A: NO. Q: DID YOU NOTICE AS YOU HAD OCCASION TO WALK THIS LONG WALKWAY THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THE OTHER DAY THAT YOU DESCRIBED MAYBE AS BEING 120, 130 FEET, YOU KNOW, FROM THE FRONT ALL THE WAY TO THE BACK ALLEYWAY, DID YOU NOTICE THAT THERE WERE SOME TREES THAT TENDED TO DROP SOME KIND OF BERRIES OR WHATEVER THAT TENDED TO STAIN THAT SIDEWALK? DID YOU NOTICE THAT? A: I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT, NO. Q: YOU DIDN'T -- DID YOU EVER WALK BACK THERE WHEN IT WAS LIGHT? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: SO WHEN YOU WERE BACK THERE YOU ONLY HAD THE AID OF A FLASHLIGHT AND YOU DIDN'T SEE IT WHEN IT WAS LIGHT, RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: ALL RIGHT. A: ACTUALLY TWO QUESTIONS, BUT YES. Q: THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING BOTH. YES, YES. OKAY? YOU NEVER SAW ANY BERRIES DEPOSITED ON THAT WALKWAY DURING THE LIGHT HOURS; IS THAT RIGHT? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: YOU NEVER WENT OVER TO ROCKINGHAM? A: I WENT LATER IN THE EVENING. Q: LATER ON THAT DAY? A: THAT'S CORRECT, JUST FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL. Q: OKAY. DID YOU EVER GO INSIDE THE PROPERTY? A: NO. I WENT AFTER IT WAS DONE BEING A CRIME SCENE. Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT TIME DID YOU GET OVER TO ROCKINGHAM? A: 11:15, 11:30 P.M. Q: LATE AT NIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: ON JUNE 13? A: IT WAS EITHER THE 13TH OR THE 14TH. Q: ONE OF THOSE TWO? A: RIGHT. Q: BUT YOU NEVER WENT INSIDE THE PROPERTY? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS AREA WHERE YOU SAW THESE BODIES THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED FOR US, YOU HAD OCCASION, DID YOU NOT, TO OBSERVE THE BODY OF THE FEMALE VICTIM? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING BLOOD SPOTS ON THE BACK OF THE FEMALE VICTIM, MRS. SIMPSON? A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW, NO. Q: IF YOU WERE TO SEE A PICTURE OF THAT, WOULD THAT -- PERHAPS THAT WOULD REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION? A: MAYBE, BUT I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING THEM. MR. COCHRAN: MAY I HAVE JUST A SECOND, YOUR HONOR? YOUR HONOR, CAN WE CUT THE FEED? I WANT TO ASK HIM WITH REGARD -- THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE PHOTOGRAPHERS ARE DIRECTED NOT TO ATTEMPT TO TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE SCENE ON THE SCREEN. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS 1012. (DEFT'S 1012 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU SEE THOSE BLOOD SPOTS THAT APPEAR ON THE BACK THERE? A: YES, SIR. Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING THOSE -- THE BODY IN THAT CONDITION THAT NIGHT, THOSE SPOTS? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: DID YOU EVER TELL THE PHOTOGRAPHER OR DIRECT HIM TO TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THAT -- OF THE BACK AS IT APPEARED THERE? A: NO. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. YOU CAN TAKE IT DOWN. THANK YOU. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS AREA, A VERY SMALL AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND, HE WAS LYING SOMEWHERE AGAINST THE TREE RIGHT IN THAT FRONT AREA; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND YOU DESCRIBED THAT AREA AS BEING ABOUT HOW WIDE? GIVEN THE TREE AS THE BACKSTOP, HOW FAR WOULD YOU SAY IT WAS FROM THAT TREE TO THAT FRONT GATE AND FROM THE GATE TO THE WAY YOU WOULD ENTER THAT PLACE? A: I WOULD ESTIMATE 10-BY-6 OR SMALLER. Q: 10-BY-6 OR SMALLER? A: YEAH. Q: YEAH. WITH REGARD TO THAT AREA, WHILE YOU WERE THERE, NOW YOU SAW IN ONE OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU SAW HIS SHOES AND FOOTPRINT IN THERE WHEN HE WAS POINTING AT SOMETHING UNDER SOME OF THE FOLIAGE. YOU RECALL THAT, RIGHT, THAT ONE PICTURE? THE COURT: I THINK THAT -- I DON'T THINK THERE WAS ANY TESTIMONY THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S FOOTPRINTS WERE AT THE SCENE. MR. COCHRAN: LET ME REPHRASE IT, YOUR HONOR. Q: YOU SAW A PHOTOGRAPH, DID YOU NOT, OF A DETECTIVE OR SOME INDIVIDUAL IN A SHIRT AND SOME PANTS POINTING DOWN AT -- TOWARD THE FOLIAGE. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: THAT'S TRUE. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO THAT PERSON WAS? A: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. Q: AND DID YOU SEE THAT PERSON'S SHOE ALSO? A: YES, I DID. Q: AND THE SHOE WAS UNCOVERED? IT HAD NO BOOTIES OR ANYTHING ON THAT SHOE, DID IT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: HE HAD NOTHING ON HIS HAND EITHER, DID HE? A: RIGHT. Q: AND THAT WAS -- THAT PICTURE WAS TAKEN IN THAT AREA, THIS SMALL AREA THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND; IS THAT RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE THERE DID YOU EVER SEE ANYONE TAKE OR SEEK TO PRESERVE ANY SHOEPRINTS THAT WERE IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA, IF ANY? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, VAGUE. HOW DO YOU DO THAT? WHAT, BREAK UP THE CONCRETE? MR. COCHRAN: IF HE UNDERSTANDS THE QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU DID NOT SEE ANYBODY DO THAT? A: NO. Q: DO YOU EVER DIRECT ANYONE, WHEN YOU WERE THERE, TO TAKE ANY PICTURES IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: I'M TALKING NOT ONLY ABOUT THE CONCRETE, I'M TALKING ABOUT THE DIRT AREA? A: I DIDN'T DIRECT ANYBODY TO TAKE ANY PICTURES ANYWHERE. Q: DID YOU EVER IN YOUR PRESENCE EVER HEAR ANY OF THE DETECTIVES WHO WERE SUPPOSEDLY IN CHARGE OF THIS SCENE TO DO THAT? A: NO. Q: NOW, WE I THINK WE COVERED LAST WEEK THAT WHEN YOU LEFT THE SCENE, THE CORONER HAD NOT ARRIVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE CORONER HAD BEEN CALLED AT THAT POINT? A: I DON'T KNOW. Q: YOU DIDN'T PARTICIPATE IN THAT? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: ALL RIGHT. WE ESTABLISHED YOU LEFT ABOUT 7:15? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND WITH REGARD TO THE MOVEMENT OF EVIDENCE, WE TALKED BRIEFLY ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK, THAT ONE OF THE THINGS YOU TRY TO DO AT A CRIME SCENE IS PRESERVE THE EVIDENCE AND NOT MOVE IT; IS THAT RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: WITH REGARD TO SOME OF THE EVIDENCE I SHOWED YOU LAST WEEK, YOU COULD SEE THAT IT HAD BEEN MOVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THAT EVIDENCE HAD BEEN MOVED BY VIRTUE OF THE CORONER MOVING THE BODY OR DO YOU KNOW? A: I WASN'T THERE. I DON'T KNOW. Q: SO YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING? A: NO. Q: EVEN IF THE CORNER WERE TO MOVE THE BODY, THE BEST PROCEDURE WOULD BE NOT TO MOVE THE EVIDENCE, WOULD YOU AGREE? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: WELL -- THE COURT: IT IS ARGUMENTATIVE WITH THIS WITNESS. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q: YOU KNOW YOURSELF THAT YOU DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN NOT TO MOVE EVIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: IF EVER YOU MOVED EVIDENCE OR EVIDENCE WAS MOVED FROM ONE LOCATION TO THE OTHER, YOU WOULD WRITE A REPORT EXPLAINING WHY THAT WAS DONE, RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: THAT WOULD BE STANDARD PROCEDURE, WOULDN'T IT? A: FOR ME, YES. Q: AND YOU ARE A WELL-TRAINED OFFICER? A: I WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE SO. Q: IN ADDITION TO YOU SEARCHING THE AREA FOR ANY WEAPONS OR BLOODY CLOTHES OR WHATEVER, AS YOU DESCRIBED FOR US LAST WEEK, WERE THERE OTHER OFFICERS WHO ALSO SEARCHED UP AND DOWN THAT ALLEYWAY AND THAT SORT OF THING, THAT YOU ARE AWARE OF? A: I KNOW THERE WERE DOOR KNOCKING THE RESIDENCE. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE SEARCHING. I CAN'T TESTIFY FOR ANYBODY ELSE. Q: YOU KNOW YOU SEARCHED AND YOU KNOW OTHER OFFICERS WERE OUT THERE, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY SEARCHED? A: RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: VERY WELL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, OFFICER RISKE. THE WITNESS: THANK YOU, SIR. THE COURT: REDIRECT, MISS CLARK. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK: Q: GOOD MORNING, OFFICER RISKE. A: GOOD MORNING. Q: OFFICER RISKE, YOU GOT ASKED A WHOLE LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE IN THIS INVESTIGATION JUST NOW BY COUNSEL, DIDN'T YOU? A: YES, SIR. Q: WHAT IS YOUR JOB, SIR? A: RESPOND TO THE CALL, SECURE THE SCENE, TO MAKE NOTIFICATIONS. Q: YOU ARE A PATROL OFFICER, RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE TITLE OF INVESTIGATING OFFICER? A: YES. Q: CAN YOU TELL US, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE IN THE DUTIES BETWEEN AN INVESTIGATING OFFICER AND A PATROL OFFICER? A: YES, THERE IS. Q: TELL US, WHAT IS AN INVESTIGATING OFFICER SUPPOSED TO DO. A: JUST INVESTIGATE THE CRIME, TAKE COPIOUS NOTES AND LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE AND WRITE IT DOWN. Q: AND DOES HE DIRECT THE CRIMINALIST AND TELL THEM WHAT EVIDENCE TO COLLECT? A: YES. Q: AND DOES HE DIRECT THE PHOTOGRAPHER AND TELL HIM WHAT PICTURES TO TAKE? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. IT IS ALSO HE OR SHE. MS. CLARK: HE OR SHE. MR. COCHRAN: THE PERSON. MS. CLARK: A PERSON. SORRY. Q: WHAT -- WHO TELLS THE PHOTOGRAPHER WHAT PHOTOGRAPHS TO TAKE? A: THE DETECTIVE. Q: THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER? A: YES. Q: AND WHO TELLS THE CRIMINALIST WHAT EVIDENCE TO COLLECT? A: THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER. Q: AND WHO TELLS THE PRINT PEOPLE WHERE TO TAKE FINGERPRINTS AND DUST FOR PRINTS? A: THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER. Q: AND WHO IS SUPPOSED TO OVERSEE THE COORDINATION WITH THE REMOVAL OF THE BODY BY THE CORONER? A: THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER. Q: DO YOU -- ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY OF THAT STUFF? A: NOT IN THIS INSTANCE, NO. Q: AT THIS CRIME SCENE YOU WERE THE PATROL OFFICER WHO HAPPENED TO BE THE FIRST ONE THERE? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: SO NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE BY YOU? A: NO. Q: AND THAT IS PROPER PROCEDURE, NOT FOR IT TO BE DONE BY YOU? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND IS IT PART OF YOUR DUTIES TO OBSERVE AND MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF THESE THINGS WE HAVE JUST MENTIONED ARE DONE? A: NO. Q: IS IT YOUR DUTY TO WATCH AND SEE WHAT IS BEING DONE BY THE PRINT PEOPLE OR THE CRIMINALIST OR A PHOTOGRAPHER OR CORONER? A: NO. MR. COCHRAN: COMPOUND QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THE FACT THAT YOU DID NOT SEE PHOTOGRAPHS BEING TAKEN INSIDE THE HOUSE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY WEREN'T TAKEN? A: NO, IT DOESN'T. Q: DID YOU STAND GUARD INSIDE THE HOUSE TO WATCH WHERE THE PHOTOGRAPHER WENT? A: NO. Q: DID YOU STAND GUARD BEHIND THE HOUSE TO WATCH AND SEE WHAT THE PHOTOGRAPHER TOOK PICTURES OF? A: NO. Q: DID YOU STAND GUARD IN FRONT OF THE HOUSE TO SEE WHAT THE PHOTOGRAPHER TOOK PICTURES OF? A: NO. Q: OTHER THAN TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS OF BLOODY SHOEPRINTS, CAN YOU THINK OF ANY OTHER WAY TO PRESERVE THEM? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. ARGUMENTATIVE, LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO. Q: BY MS. CLARK: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANYBODY GO AND BREAK UP THE CONCRETE TO TAKE THE PIECES OF CONCRETE SO YOU CAN PRESERVE SHOE PRINTS? A: NO. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SLOW DOWN, MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: SORRY. Q: NOW, YOUR OBSERVATIONS AT THE CRIME SCENE, SIR, ARE YOU THERE TO CLOSELY EXAMINE THE BODIES? A: NO. Q: WHAT ARE YOU THERE TO DO WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR OBSERVATIONS AS FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE? A: NOTIFY THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER OF MY OBSERVATIONS AND SECURE THE SCENE AND MAKE SURE NOTHING GETS MOVED. Q: SO WHEN YOU FOUND THAT THE DOOR -- PASSENGER DOOR OF THE JEEP WAS NOT FULLY LOCKED, WOULD IT HAVE BEEN PROPER FOR YOU -- MR. COCHRAN: MISSTATES THE EVIDENCE, YOUR HONOR. NOT FULLY CLOSED, NOT FULLY LOCKED. THE COURT: WE DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS LOCKED. THAT IS A CONCLUSION. IT WAS AJAR WAS HIS TESTIMONY. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I'M SORRY. I DON'T -- Q: YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER IT WAS LOCKED OR NOT? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: HOW WAS IT THEN THAT YOU MADE THE OBSERVATION -- TELL US WHAT YOU SAW ABOUT THAT DOOR THAT MADE YOU THINK IT WASN'T FULLY CLOSED. A: THERE WAS A GAP PROBABLY AN INCH AND A HALF, TWO INCHES, BETWEEN THE DOOR AND THE BODY OF THE VEHICLE. Q: OKAY. THEN IF IT WAS -- IF THERE WAS A GAP SO THAT THE DOOR IS PARTIALLY OPENED, CAN YOU TELL US HOW IT COULD BE LOCKED? A: I DON'T MEAN IT WAS PARTIAL -- I MEAN IT WAS CLOSED, BUT NOT CLOSED ALL THE WAY. Q: OKAY. IF IT WAS CLOSED ALL THE WAY, CAN YOU THINK OF A WAY IT COULD BE LOCKED? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE COURT: DO YOU KNOW? THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS LOCKED OR NOT, NO. Q: BY MS. CLARK: HAVE YOU EVER BEEN SENT TO -- YOU HAVE HAD EXPERIENCE WITH CARS? YOU HAVE DRIVEN A FEW, RIGHT? A: A FEW. Q: STILL DRIVING A CAR? A: YES. Q: OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ABLE TO LOCK THE DOOR WHEN IT HASN'T BEEN FULLY CLOSED? A: YES. MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. IT IS ALSO A MATTER OF COMMON EXPERIENCE. EVERYBODY HERE DRIVES A CAR. WE ARE IN L.A. MS. CLARK: THAT'S TRUE. Q: WOULD IT HAVE BEEN PROPER FOR YOU TO GO AND TRY TO OPEN THAT DOOR? A: NO. Q: WHY NOT? A: BECAUSE I WOULD GET MY FINGERPRINTS ON THE DOOR AND IT WOULD DISRUPT THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE AGAIN. Q: AND YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON'T DO THAT UNTIL PRINT PEOPLE COME AND TRY AND LIFT PRINTS? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND YOU DIDN'T SEE THE PRINT PEOPLE TRY AND GET PRINTS OFF THE CAR, DID YOU? A: NO. Q: THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN? A: NO. Q: YOU JUST DIDN'T SEE IT? A: I DIDN'T SEE IT. Q: AND WITH REGARD TO THE ICE CREAM, YOU DIDN'T LIFT THAT CUP? A: NO. Q: YOU DIDN'T TRY AND TASTE THE ICE CREAM? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: WOULD IT HAVE BEEN PROPER FOR YOU TO DO THAT? A: NO. Q: WHY NOT? A: BECAUSE AGAIN IT COULD DISRUPT THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE. I JUST MAKE NOTE OF IT AND LEAVE IT ALONE. Q: LEAVE IT THERE FOR THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER OR HANDLING DETECTIVES TO OBSERVE? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: NOW, ABOUT THAT ICE CREAM? DID YOU HAVE ANY WAY OF KNOWING HOW FROZEN IT WAS WHEN IT WAS PURCHASED? A: NO. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER IT WAS YOGURT OR ICE CREAM? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: COULD YOU TELL BY LOOKING AT IT? A: NO. Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER NICOLE BROWN PUT IT INTO THE FREEZER WHEN SHE GOT HOME AND TOOK IT OUT JUST BEFORE SHE WENT OUTSIDE AND WAS ATTACKED? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THIS, YOUR HONOR. TOTAL SPECULATION ON COUNSEL'S PART. MS. CLARK: AS COUNSEL'S QUESTIONS. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR THAT PARTICULAR BRAND TO MELT? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: DO YOU KNOW HOW -- DO YOU KNOW WHETHER IT WAS FROZEN IN THE MIDDLE AND MAYBE MELTED AROUND THE SIDES? A: THERE APPEARED TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF MASS IN THE MIDDLE WITH FLUID SURROUNDING IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW. LIKE I SAID, I DIDN'T TOUCH IT. Q: SO YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE CORE WAS STILL FROZEN? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: DO YOU KNOW ANY WAY TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE OF ICE CREAM THAT HAS BEEN MELTED FOR TWO VERSUS TWO AND A HALF HOURS? A: NO. Q: OR TWO AND A HALF HOURS AND TWO HOURS AND FIFTEEN MINUTES? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: DO YOU KNOW HOW ANYBODY COULD TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO HOW ANYBODY COULD. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE WITNESS: NO. THE COURT: SUSTAINED, SUSTAINED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU HAVE A DUTY TO -- WHAT IS YOUR DUTY WITH RESPECT TO -- WHAT IS YOUR DUTY WITH RESPECT TO WRITING THE NOTES ON WHAT YOU OBSERVED AT THE CRIME SCENE? A: JUST GENERAL INFORMATION, BASIC NOTES. Q: AND SO IT IS A GENERAL OBSERVATION OF WHAT YOU SAW? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: WHOSE DUTY IS IT TO WRITE THE MORE DETAILED CRIME SCENE NOTES? A: THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER. Q: OKAY. NEVERTHELESS, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING WITH RESPECT TO THE SPOON THAT WAS IN THAT ICE CREAM? A: THAT IT WAS ON THE FLOOR. Q: AS THOUGH IT HAD -- THE ICE CREAM HAD MELTED AND IT FELL OUT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT, YOUR HONOR. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: WAS THE SPOON NEAR WHERE THE ICE CREAM WAS ON THE BANISTER? A: IT WAS ON THE FLOOR DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH THE ICE CREAM. Q: OKAY. WITH RESPECT TO ANY RING THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN UNDERNEATH THE CUP, DO YOU HAVE ANY WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER SHE USED TO REST CUPS ON THAT BANISTER A LOT? MR. COCHRAN: CALLS FOR SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. NOW, YOU DIDN'T SEE ALL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE TAKEN, DID YOU? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: AND THE SPOON THAT WAS NEAR THE -- THAT WAS ON THE GROUND, WHAT DID THAT APPEAR TO BE TO YOU? A: IT WAS A PINK PLASTIC SPOON. Q: OKAY. DID YOU ASSOCIATE THAT SPOON WITH THE ICE CREAM CUP? A: YES. Q: WHY? A: GENERALLY WHEN YOU GO GET ICE CREAM THAT IS THE COLOR OF SPOON YOU GET, PINK PLASTIC SPOON. Q: UH-HUH. AND DID YOU -- DID YOU DETERMINE WHY THAT SPOON WAS ON THE GROUND NEXT TO THE CUP? A: NO. Q: DID YOU HAVE -- DID YOU PASS ON ANY OBSERVATION WITH RESPECT TO THAT? A: I TOLD THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER IT LOOKED LIKE IT JUST FELL OUT WHEN THE ICE CREAM MELTED. Q: NOW, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT EFFORTS HAD BEEN MADE TO NOTIFY THE FAMILY OF RON GOLDMAN OR THE FAMILY OF NICOLE BROWN? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE AT THE CRIME SCENE, SIR, DID YOU OR ANYONE THAT YOU KNEW OF KNOW NICOLE'S MAIDEN NAME? A: I ALSO BELIEVE I RAN THE LICENSE PLATE ON THE FERRARI THAT SAID NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON. Q: AND FROM THAT WERE YOU ABLE TO DETERMINE WHERE HER FAMILY WAS? A: NO. Q: AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE AT THE CRIME SCENE, SIR, DID ANYONE KNOW THE IDENTITY OF RON GOLDMAN? A: NOT THAT I AM AWARE OF, NO. Q: SO AT THE TIME THAT YOU WERE THERE, DID ANYONE KNOW HOW TO MAKE CONTACT WITH HIS FAMILY? A: NO. Q: AND YOU INDICATED THAT WHEN YOU FIRST ENTERED THE CONDOMINIUM YOU THOUGHT THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS INVOLVED AND BY THAT YOU MEANT -- A: I MEANT MAYBE A RELATIVE OR A FRIEND OR MAYBE A POTENTIAL VICTIM. Q: SO YOU THOUGHT HE WAS A RELATIVE OR A FRIEND OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS? A: RIGHT. Q: BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU SAW INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU DID NOT SEE ALL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE TAKEN IN THIS CASE; IS THAT RIGHT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND YOU WEREN'T PRESENT WHEN -- SO YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHEN SOME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS HAVE BEEN TAKEN THAT WERE SHOWN TO YOU? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED SEVERAL TIMES ON REDIRECT. THE COURT: TWICE. MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, YOUR HONOR. I WON'T DO IT. IT IS FOUNDATIONAL. I'M GOING INTO ANOTHER AREA. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PROCEED. THANK YOU. Q: BY MS. CLARK: IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, SIR, ARE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER THE CORONER ARRIVES? A: YES. Q: AND HAS IT EVER OCCURRED IN YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT REMOVAL OF BODIES FROM A SCENE WILL CAUSE SOME EVIDENCE CLOSE TO THE BODIES TO BE DISTURBED? A: IN MY EXPERIENCE THEY HAVE ACTUALLY PICKED UP THE EVIDENCE AND TAGGED WHERE IT WAS AT, REMOVED THE BODY AND PUT THE EVIDENCE BACK AND TOOK PHOTOGRAPHS. Q: BUT IN YOUR EXPERIENCE HAVE THEY TAKEN PHOTOGRAPHS BEFORE THE BODIES WERE REMOVED? A: YES. Q: AND IN ORDER TO PRESERVE IT EXACTLY AS IT WAS FOUND? A: RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, WHY? THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, YOUR ANSWER WAS YES? A: YES. Q: THEN PHOTOGRAPHS ARE TAKEN AFTER THE BODIES ARE REMOVED? A: THAT'S CORRECT. MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: BY THE WAY, SIR, WHAT WAS IT AGAIN ON -- I APOLOGIZE IF I HAVE ASKED THIS, I DON'T REMEMBER, BECAUSE THIS IS NOT FROM TODAY. WHAT WAS IT YOU SAW IN THE CONDOMINIUM THAT MADE YOU BELIEVE THAT MR. SIMPSON WAS RELATED TO ONE OF THE VICTIMS? A: THERE WAS A LITHOGRAPH OF MR. SIMPSON ON THE NORTH WALL. THERE WAS SOME FAMILY PHOTOS AND THEN THE LETTER WITH THE RETURN ADDRESS. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, SIR. Q: NOW, YOU WERE NOT WEARING GLOVES, WERE YOU, SIR? A: NO, I WASN'T. Q: AND DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN, HE WAS NOT WEARING GLOVES, WAS HE? A: NOT WHILE I WAS THERE, NO. Q: OKAY. AND SERGEANT ROSSI WAS NOT WEARING GLOVES? A: NO. Q: AND THE DETECTIVES WERE NOT WEARING GLOVES WHILE YOU WERE THERE? A: NO. Q: WERE THEY HANDLING THE EVIDENCE? A: NOT WHILE I WAS THERE, NO. Q: WERE THEY COLLECTING THE EVIDENCE? A: NO. Q: WERE THEY DUSTING FOR PRINTS? A: NO, THEY WEREN'T. Q: WERE THEY LIFTING BLOOD SPOTS? A: NO. Q: SIR, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU DID NOT TOUCH THE JEEP AND YOU DID NOT TOUCH THE CUP, IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS PRESERVED? A: RIGHT. Q: SO THAT YOU WOULDN'T GET YOUR PRINTS ON IT? A: RIGHT. Q: HOW MUCH TRAINING DID IT TAKE FOR YOU TO FIGURE OUT THAT YOU SHOULDN'T TOUCH EVIDENCE BEFORE THE CRIMINALIST EXAMINES IT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT IS HER OWN WITNESS. THAT IS A SARCASTIC, ARGUMENTATIVE QUESTION. THE COURT: IT IS AN ARGUMENTATIVE QUESTION FOR YOUR OWN WITNESS. Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID IT TAKE A LOT OF TRAINING FOR YOU TO FIGURE THAT OUT? A: NO. Q: TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE DO ALL OF THESE DETECTIVES KNOW THAT AS WELL? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION, WHAT THEY KNOW. THE COURT: SUSTAINED, SUSTAINED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: THE PURPOSE OF YOUR SEARCH INSIDE THE RESIDENCE, SIR, WAS THAT TO EXAMINE IT FOR EVIDENCE? A: NO, IT WASN'T. Q: WHAT WERE YOU DOING IN THERE? A: LOOKING FOR ANY OTHER VICTIMS OR A SUSPECT. Q: SO YOU WERE JUST TRYING TO CLEAR IT IN CASE THERE WAS SOMEBODY IN PERIL OR THERE WAS A SUSPECT INSIDE? A: RIGHT. Q: YOU WERE ASKED BY COUNSEL ABOUT THE STAR 69 FEATURE ON THE TELEPHONE? A: RIGHT. Q: THAT IS THE FEATURE THAT REGISTERS INCOMING CALLS AND IT WILL IMMEDIATELY CONNECT THE CALLER TO THE LAST PERSON WHO CALLED? A: I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THAT IS. Q: OKAY. THEN ARE YOU AWARE THAT NO MATTER HOW MANY OUTGOING CALLS ARE MADE THAT IT WOULD NOT DISRUPT THAT FEATURE BECAUSE IT REGISTERS INCOMING CALLS? MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL IS TESTIFYING. THAT IS IMPROPER AND SHE KNOWS IT. THE COURT: SUSTAINED, SUSTAINED. HE JUST TESTIFIED HE HAD NO IDEA WHAT IT IS. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND THE DEFENDANT.) MS. CLARK: CAN WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: SURE, WITHOUT THE REPORTER. (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:) THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WHAT WE HAVE HERE, YOU WILL NOTICE THAT WE ALL HAVE COMPUTER SCREENS ON OUR DESKS. THE ATTORNEYS HAVE THEM, I HAVE THEM. THIS IS SO THAT WHEN THE TESTIMONY IS TAKEN DOWN BY THE COURT REPORTER, WE HAVE AN IMMEDIATE READOUT AS TO WHAT THE TESTIMONY IS SO THAT I CAN GO BACK AND CHECK THE LAST QUESTION OR CLARIFY THINGS AND THE ATTORNEYS HAVE THE SAME THING. AND UNFORTUNATELY THE PROSECUTOR'S CONNECTOR CAME APART. REPORTER OLSON: WOULD YOU LIKE TO ME FIX IT? THE COURT: YES, PLEASE. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: MISS CLARK, ARE YOU ON LINE? MS. CLARK: YES. I THINK SO. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q: YOU INDICATED, SIR, THAT YOU USED THE TELEPHONE INSIDE MISS BROWN'S CONDOMINIUM WHEN YOU FIRST WENT INSIDE? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: BUT YOU HAD A ROVER WITH YOU? A: RIGHT. Q: WHY DID YOU USE THE PHONE? A: BECAUSE OUR ROVERS DON'T HAVE TELEPHONE CAPABILITY AND WE DON'T HAVE PHONES IN OUR CARS AND I DIDN'T WANT TO BROADCAST OVER MY ROVER THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBLE DOUBLE HOMICIDE INVOLVING A CELEBRITY. Q: WHY NOT? WHY DIDN'T YOU WANT TO USE YOUR ROVER TO DO THAT? A: BECAUSE THE MEDIA WOULD BEAT MY BACK-UP THERE. Q: I'M SORRY? A: THE MEDIA WOULD HAVE BEAT ALL THE ADDITIONAL OFFICERS THERE. Q: THEY WOULD HAVE GOTTEN THERE BEFORE THE ADDITIONAL OFFICERS? A: RIGHT. Q: HOW COME? A: BECAUSE EVERYBODY KNOWS THEY DRIVE AROUND WITH SCANNERS AND THEY RESPOND TO CALLS, AND I DIDN'T WANT THEM TO GET THERE BEFORE WE HAD A CRIME SCENE SET UP. Q: SO THE MEDIA HAS THE FREQUENCY OF YOUR ROVER? A: RIGHT. Q: HAS THAT HAPPENED TO YOU BEFORE, THAT THEY HAVE PICKED UP ON YOUR ROVER? A: ALL THE TIME. Q: THE SHOES THAT YOU WORE AT THE CRIME SCENE, SIR, DID SOMEONE LATER PHOTOGRAPH THE SOLES OF THOSE SHOES SO THEY COULD BE COMPARED TO THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS FOUND AT THE SCENE? A: YES. Q: AND WHO WAS IT THAT DID THAT? A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS. Q: AND WHEN DID HE DO THAT? A: IT WAS EITHER LATER THAT EVENING OR THE NEXT DAY. Q: SIR, DO YOU RECALL, YOU WERE SHOWN A PHOTOGRAPH OF AN OFFICER WALKING UP THE WALKWAY BY DEFENSE COUNSEL LAST WEEK? A: YES. Q: AND DO YOU RECALL SEEING THE LOGO OF AMERICAN JOURNAL AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PHOTOGRAPH? A: I DON'T BELIEVE WHEN I SAW IT THERE, NO. Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE IT ON THE PHOTOGRAPH? A: I SAW IT ON THE PHOTOGRAPH UPSTAIRS, BUT NOT -- I DON'T RECALL SEEING IT ON THE ONE HERE. Q: OKAY. THE PHOTOGRAPH YOU SAW UPSTAIRS, DID THAT SEEM TO BE THE SAME ONE THAT MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU? A: YES. MR. COCHRAN: I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AMERICAN JOURNAL. THE COURT: OVERRULED. MS. CLARK: DID THE DEFENSE MARK A PRINT OF THAT? THE COURT: YES. IT HAS THE BROADCAST I.D. ON THE LOWER RIGHT-HAND CORNER BLOCKED OUT. MS. CLARK: OF AMERICAN JOURNAL? MR. COCHRAN: NO. MS. CLARK: YOU DON'T KNOW? LET ME SEE. THE COURT: NO IDEA. (BRIEF PAUSE.) (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES. Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS DEFENSE 1011, DO YOU SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR? A: YES, I DO. Q: IS THAT THE ONE YOU RECOGNIZE THAT MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU BEFORE? A: YES, I DO. Q: YOU SEE THIS LITTLE BOX DOWN HERE IN THE RIGHT-HAND CORNER? A: YES. Q: IT IS BLANKED OUT IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, ISN'T IT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH THAT I WOULD LIKE TO BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER. THE COURT: 57. MS. CLARK: 57. THANK YOU. (PEO'S 57 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) MS. CLARK: SHOW IT TO COUNSEL. (BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: MAY I SHOW YOU, SIR, PEOPLE'S 57. A: YES, MA'AM. Q: DO YOU RECALL SEEING THAT UPSTAIRS? A: YES, I DO. Q: AND DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE A COPY OF THE SAME PHOTOGRAPH YOU WERE SHOWN IN DEFENDANT'S 1011? A: YES. Q: NOW, INSTEAD OF HAVING THAT BLANKED OUT GRAY BOX THAT YOU HAVE IN THE DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT, YOU HAVE "AMERICAN JOURNAL" SHOWN IN THAT SAME AREA WHERE THAT BOX IS BLANK? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND IN THE PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT THEN IT SHOWS YOU THAT IT IS AN AMERICAN JOURNAL PHOTOGRAPH? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND YOU SAID THAT THERE WERE NO MEDIA THERE WHEN YOU WERE PRESENT; IS THAT RIGHT? A: THAT'S RIGHT. Q: ARE YOU AWARE OF WHAT AMERICAN JOURNAL IS, SIR? A: IT IS A NEWS MAGAZINE OR A NEWS SHOW. Q: ON TELEVISION? A: RIGHT. Q: NOW, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHEN THAT PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN, DO YOU? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T PRESENT WHEN ANY MEDIA WAS PRESENT, WERE YOU? A: NO. Q: NOW, AT SOME POINT IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, SIR, AFTER EVIDENCE IS COLLECTED AND THE CRIMINALIST AND THE PHOTOGRAPHER FINISH THEIR WORK AT THE CRIME SCENE, WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT CRIME SCENE? A: TEAR IT DOWN, RELEASE IT. Q: YOU RELEASE THE CRIME SCENE? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND IF YOU DIDN'T DO THAT I GUESS ALL OF L.A. WOULD BE TAPED OFF, WOULDN'T IT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: SO AT SOME POINT THE CRIME SCENE IS BROKEN DOWN? MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: RIGHT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND AT THE POINT THAT YOU LEFT AT 7:15 -- WAS THAT 7:15, SIR? A: 7:15. Q: -- WERE THERE ANY OFFICERS WALKING ON THAT WALKWAY? A: NO. Q: AND IT WAS STILL TAPED OFF? A: THAT'S RIGHT. Q: AND WHEN YOU WERE THERE THE CRIME SCENE WAS MAINTAINED WITH THAT TAPE? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: DID YOU SEE ANYONE, ANYONE WALK ON THAT WALKWAY WHERE THE BLOOD WAS AS SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: NOW, WHILE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE IS STILL UP, BEFORE THE CRIMINALIST OR THE PHOTOGRAPHER OR THE PRINT PEOPLE COME IN AND THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS COME IN TO DO THEIR WORK, DO YOU JUST LET ANY CURIOUS COP WALK IN THERE AND CHECK OUT THE CRIME SCENE? A: NO. Q: WHAT DO YOU DO? A: MAKE SURE PEOPLE STAY OUT OF IT. Q: WHO IS ALLOWED IN, INTO THE TAPE? A: THE INVESTIGATING OFFICERS. Q: SO WHOEVER IS JUST NECESSARY TO MAINTAIN SECURITY AND DO THE INVESTIGATION WHO IS ASSIGNED THE CASE? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: SIR, MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU SOME PHOTOGRAPHS LAST WEEK. I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THEM TO YOU NOW, IF YOU DON'T MIND. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: DO YOU WANT TO CUT THE FEED, YOUR HONOR? I'M SORRY. THIS IS PEOPLE'S -- (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) THE COURT: MISS CLARK, DO WE KNOW WHAT PHOTOGRAPH THIS IS? MS. CLARK: I THINK IT IS PEOPLE'S 44, YOUR HONOR. I'M ATTEMPTING TO VERIFY THAT NOW. MR. FAIRTLOUGH: IT IS P- -- I BELIEVE, YOUR HONOR, THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS LOCATED ON -- THE COURT: 44. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: MRS. ROBERTSON CONFIRMS THIS IS PEOPLE'S 44. MS. CLARK: IT IS PEOPLE'S 44. THANK YOU, JONATHAN. THAT IS OKAY. Q: YOU RECALL SEEING THAT PHOTOGRAPH THAT MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU LAST WEEK? A: YES. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND THEN MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH. DO YOU RECALL? A: YES, I DO. Q: AND HE -- YOU MADE NOTE OF THE FACT IN YOUR TESTIMONY, THAT THIS GLOVE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH APPEARS TO BE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION THAN IN THE EARLIER ONE? A: RIGHT. Q: NOW, IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, YOU SEE A NUMBER TAG? A: YES, I DO. MS. CLARK: GO BACK TO THE OTHER ONE, P-44, JOHN. MR. FAIRTLOUGH: SURE. MS. CLARK: THANKS. Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH YOU DON'T SEE A NUMBER TAG, DO YOU? A: NO. Q: DO YOU SEE A SHOE? A: YES. Q: RIGHT NEXT TO THAT GLOVE? A: YES, I DO. Q: AND DO YOU RECALL WHOSE SHOE THAT WAS? A: MR. GOLDMAN. Q: SO IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH IT WOULD APPEAR MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS STILL IN PLACE? A: RIGHT. MS. CLARK: BACK TO THE OTHER ONE. Q: AND IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH DO YOU SEE MR. GOLDMAN'S SHOE? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: IT WOULD APPEAR THEN -- DO YOU SEE BLOODY DRAG MARKS ABOVE THE NUMBER "102" IN THE UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. BLOODY DRAG MARKS. THE COURT: SUSTAINED, LEADING. Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DO YOU SEE IN THE UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER ABOVE THE NUMBER "102"? A: DARK STRIATIONS. THE COURT: MISS CLARK, WHICH PHOTO IS THIS? MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, WE HAVE NOT INTRODUCED THIS PARTICULAR PHOTO. THIS I BELIEVE WAS MARKED AS DEFENSE EXHIBIT 1005; IS THAT CORRECT? THE COURT: MRS. ROBERTSON? MR. DOUGLAS: NO, NO. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE COURT AND THE CLERK.) THE COURT: NOT 1005. MS. CLARK: THAT IS FINE. I WILL MARK IT AS PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER AT THIS TIME UNTIL WE CAN LOCATE THE DEFENSE NUMBER. THE COURT: WE ARE COMPARING THIS PHOTOGRAPH TO THIS? MS. CLARK: THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S PHOTOGRAPH. THE COURT: I'M SORRY, MRS. ROBERTSON. MS. CLARK: I HAVE IT ON ONE OF THE BOARDS. THE COURT: HOLD ON, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE DUPLICATE PHOTOGRAPHS. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE COURT AND THE CLERK.) THE COURT: PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER WILL BE 58. MS. CLARK: 58, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: 58. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MS. CLARK: IT HAS BEEN MARKED, YOUR HONOR. IT WAS PEOPLE'S 56-H. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 56-H. MS. CLARK: IT IS ON THE BOARD. THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. Q: DO YOU SEE RON GOLDMAN'S BOOT IN THAT PICTURE? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: IT WOULD APPEAR THAT HIS BODY HAS BEEN MOVED; IS THAT CORRECT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: DOES HIS BODY APPEAR TO BE THERE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE HIS BODY IN THIS PICTURE? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: YOU DON'T SEE HIS BOOT? A: NO, I DON'T. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, MR. COCHRAN HAS THIS PHOTOGRAPH BUT HE DIDN'T SHOW YOU THIS ONE, DID HE? A: NO, HE DIDN'T. MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR. I DON'T HAVE THIS PHOTOGRAPH. I DON'T HAVE TO SHOW ANY PHOTOGRAPHS. I OBJECT TO THE FORM. IT IS ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED, SUSTAINED. EXCUSE ME. COUNSEL ON BOTH SIDES, WE DON'T NEED THIS KIND OF QUESTIONING OR THIS KIND OF RESPONSE. Q: BY MS. CLARK: OFFICER, CAN YOU TELL US DO YOU SEE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: AND CAN YOU -- THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, DO YOU WANT TO MARK THIS? THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THIS WILL BE PEOPLE'S 58. (PEO'S 58 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) MS. CLARK: IF I MAY CHECK, YOUR HONOR, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVEN'T ALREADY MARKED IT. THE COURT: CERTAINLY. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 58. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO ZOOM IN ON THE AREA THAT WAS SHOWN TO YOU IN THE OTHER -- THAT WAS SHOWN TO YOU BY MR. COCHRAN, PEOPLE'S 56-H, AND SEE IF YOU CAN LOCATE THE CLOSE-UP VIEW -- THIS IS A PERSPECTIVE SHOT OF THAT PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH. AND WHILE YOU ARE LOOKING AT THIS ONE, SIR, DO YOU SEE THE SAME DARK STRIATIONS ABOVE THAT NUMBER TAG NEAR THE BUSH? A: YES, I DO. THE COURT: MISS CLARK, LET ME JUST ASK YOU A QUICK QUESTION. AS TO THIS PHOTOGRAPH, I DON'T THINK THIS IS A RESTRICTED PHOTO. WHAT IS COMING UP AFTER THIS? THIS IS GOING TO BE A CLOSE-UP OF THIS? MS. CLARK: RIGHT, NOTHING -- THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. SIR, DO YOU SEE THE GLOVE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: YES, I DO. Q: OKAY. IT IS HARD WITH THIS ZOOM AFFECT TO SEE THE NUMBER, BUT LET ME SHOW YOU THE BOARD THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 56 AND IN 56-H. DO YOU SEE THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT CORRESPONDS TO THE VIEW THAT YOU HAVE THERE ON THE SCREEN? A: YES, I DO. Q: AND DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE 56-H? A: YES, IT IS. Q: AND SO THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT WAS SHOWN TO YOU BY MR. COCHRAN IS A CLOSE-UP VIEW OF THE -- (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: -- IS A CLOSE-UP SHOT AND THIS ONE THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS 58 IS THE PERSPECTIVE VIEW? A: RIGHT. Q: AND YOU CAN TELL NOW IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH THAT MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY HAS BEEN REMOVED? A: RIGHT. THE COURT: MISS CLARK, DO YOU WANT TO PRINT THAT CLOSE-UP? MS. CLARK: PRINT THE CLOSE-UP WE JUST DID. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, YOU WERE PRESENT AT THE SCENE, WERE YOU NOT, SIR, AND YOU TESTIFIED THAT THE AREA IN WHICH MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND WAS 10-BY-6? A: I BELIEVE SO, YES. Q: WAS THAT A VERY SMALL AREA, SIR? A: YES. Q: KIND OF LOOKED LIKE A CAGE? A: RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THE GLOVE AND THE CAP THE ENVELOPE WERE RIGHT AT HIS FEET; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THE GLOVE AND THE CAP. THE ENVELOPE WAS A LITTLE FARTHER AWAY. MS. CLARK: UH-HUH. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, DO WE NEED THIS PHOTOGRAPH ANY MORE? MS. CLARK: NO, I AM JUST WAITING. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE WILL MARK THE PRINTOUT OF THE CLOSE-UP AS 58-A. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. (PEO'S 58-A FOR ID = CLOSE-UP OF 58) (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: I THINK THIS ONE IS -- THIS IS THE ENVELOPE, YOUR HONOR. I THINK IT IS OKAY. Q: OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER -- AND THIS ONE WAS MARKED -- THIS ONE WAS PEOPLE'S -- ON THE BOARD. THE COURT: THIS IS ONE FROM OF THE CHARTS, I BELIEVE. MS. CLARK: UH-HUH. THE COURT: DID WE ACCOMPLISH LETTERING THOSE? MS. CLARK: IT IS A LETTERED ONE. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. FAIRTLOUGH: IT IS ON PEOPLE'S 56 AND I BELIEVE IT IS 56 -- MS. CLARK: NO, NOT 56. MR. FAIRTLOUGH: I'M SORRY, IT IS ON PEOPLE'S -- (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: THIS HAS BEEN MARKED ALREADY, YOUR HONOR, AS PEOPLE'S 54, BUT IT HAS NOT BEEN INDIVIDUALLY LABELED. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. CHART 54. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 54. PERHAPS THE COURT WOULD PREFER IF I LABEL IT AS WELL, AS I HAVE THE OTHERS. I WILL LABEL THE ENVELOPE SHOWN IN THE UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER AS A, THE PHOTOGRAPH CLOSE-UP OF THE HAT AND GLOVE AS B, THE PHOTOGRAPH OF MISS BROWN, C. THE COURT: MISS CLARK, I'M SORRY. YOU HAVE THEM NUMBERED THERE, NO. 1, 2, 3. WHY DON'T WE JUST PUT NO. 54, PAREN, 1, 54, PAREN, 2, IN KEEPING WITH WHAT THE EXHIBIT ACTUALLY SAYS, RATHER THAN CONFUSE IT EVEN MORE. MS. CLARK: WELL, IF THE -- BECAUSE, YOUR HONOR, WE DON'T HAVE THE ENVELOPE NUMBERED HERE. THE COURT: IT SAYS "GLASSES" THREE. MS. CLARK: IT SAYS "GLASSES," YEAH. OKAY. THEN WE WILL HAVE IT WITH THE CORRESPONDING NUMBER? THE COURT: YES. 54, PAREN, 3. MS. CLARK: OKAY. THAT WOULD BE 54(3) MARKED AS GLASSES ON THIS. THE COURT: CORRECT. MS. CLARK: OURS? THE COURT: SO WE DON'T CONFUSE IT EVEN MORE. MS. CLARK: OKAY. (PEO'S 54(1) FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) (PEO'S 54(2) FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) (PEO'S 54(3) FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) (PEO'S 54(4) FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) MS. CLARK: NOW, RATHER THAN SHOW THIS BOARD, BECAUSE THEN WE WILL HAVE TO CUT THE FEED AND EVERYTHING, I'M JUST GOING TO USE 54(3). THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, DO YOU HAVE MUCH MORE? MS. CLARK: YES. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THEN WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A 15-MINUTE COURT REPORTER RECESS. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE. DON'T LET ANYBODY CONTACT OR COMMUNICATE WITH YOU. AND WE WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE IN FIFTEEN MINUTES. LET ME ASK YOU TO STEP BACK INTO THE JURY ROOM, PLEASE. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL STAND -- AND DEPUTY -- OFFICER RISKE, YOU CAN STEP DOWN. FIFTEEN MINUTES. (RECESS.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE PRESENT. LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE. MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: SOME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS WE INTEND TO USE YOU'LL WANT TO CUT THE FEED ON. THE COURT: I'VE GOT THE FEED CUT NOW. MS. CLARK: GREAT. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. OFFICER ROBERT RISKE IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND ON REDIRECT EXAMINATION. OFFICER RISKE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR REDIRECT. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR. THIS IS P-54(3), YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: P-54(3). Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU REMEMBER MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: YES, I DO. Q: DO YOU SEE THE POSITION OF THE GLOVE? A: YES. Q: IT'S JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOVE THAT GROUTING THAT'S IN THE LOWER LEFT-HAND OF THE PHOTOGRAPH? A: YES. MS. CLARK: CAN WE GET THE PERSPECTIVE SHOT? IF WE COULD CUT THE FEED FOR THE NEXT ONE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: YES. MS. CLARK: I WOULD ASK THIS BE MARKED P-59. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. P-59. (PEO'S 59 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH) Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH MR. GOLDMAN IS PRESENT? A: YES. Q: DO YOU SEE THE ENVELOPE IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH? A: YES, I DO. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: WE ARE LOSING IT. THERE WE GO. PUSH IT UP SLOW, JONATHAN. THANK YOU. Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE THE POSITION OF THE ENVELOPE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR? A: YES, I DO. Q: DOES IT APPEAR TO BE THE SAME AS THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH YOU SAW, IN THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH THAT WE SHOWED YOU? A: YES. Q: WITH RESPECT TO THE GROUTING AND EVERYTHING? A: RIGHT. Q: SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE BODY IS IN PLACE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND IN THE PREVIOUS ONE AS WELL? A: YES. WELL, YOU COULDN'T SEE THE BODY IN THE PREVIOUS ONE. Q: YES. BUT YOU CAN SEE THE POSITION OF THE ENVELOPE IS THE SAME? A: RIGHT. Q: AND DO YOU SEE THE NUMBER TAG IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: NO. Q: DID YOU SEE THE NUMBER TAG IN THE PREVIOUS PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN? A: NO. Q: OKAY. MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, MAY THIS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 59-A? THE COURT: PRINT, 59-A. (PEO'S 59-A FOR ID = PRINT) Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. NOW, YOU RECALL THAT MR. COCHRAN SHOWED YOU THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: YEAH. Q: WITH A NUMBER TAG IN IT? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: OKAY. YOU SAW THAT THE ENVELOPE WAS SLIGHTLY MOVED? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, SLIGHTLY MOVED. THE COURT: MOVED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. WAS MOVED. OKAY? A: YES. Q: MOVED. MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS 56-F. Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. LET ME SHOW YOU THE PERSPECTIVE, PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU WERE NOT SHOWN BY MR. COCHRAN. DO YOU SEE THE ENVELOPE HERE? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THAT HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN THUS FAR. MS. CLARK: THAT HAS NOT BEEN SHOWN THUS FAR. THE COURT: BY EITHER PARTY. MS. CLARK: CORRECT. THE COURT: THANK YOU. MS. CLARK: ACTUALLY, I THINK I DO HAVE THIS PHOTOGRAPH ALREADY MARKED. THE COURT: I THINK THIS MAY BE ON ONE OF YOUR BOARDS. Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR? A: YES, MA'AM. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS WHAT PHOTOGRAPH? MR. FAIRTLOUGH: P-56(H). MS. CLARK: THIS IS P-56(H). YES. IT HAS BEEN MARKED, YOUR HONOR, AND SHOWN. Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE THE POSITION OF THE ENVELOPE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR? A: YES, I DO. MS. CLARK: AND IF WE COULD ZOOM IN. Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND YOU SEE THE BODY -- THE BODY HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: RIGHT. Q: OKAY. DO YOU SEE THE POSITION OF THE ENVELOPE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH? A: YES. Q: NOW, IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH IN WHICH THE BODY HAS BEEN REMOVED, DOES THE ENVELOPE APPEAR TO BE IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE CLOSE-UP SHOWN TO YOU JUST BEFORE THIS ONE? A: YES. MS. CLARK: OKAY. LET'S GO BACK TO THAT ONE AND LOOK AT THAT, COMPARE. MR. FAIRTLOUGH: I'M SORRY. WHICH PHOTO? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE IN THE SAME POSITION AS THE PERSPECTIVE SHOT THAT I JUST SHOWED YOU IN WHICH YOU CAN SEE THAT THE BODY HAS BEEN REMOVED? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: CAN YOU ALSO SEE THE EDGE OF A BLANKET IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR? A: YES. Q: WAS THERE A BLANKET THERE WHEN YOU SAW THE BODIES IN PLACE? A: NO. Q: ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT DOES IT APPEAR TO BE? WHAT DO YOU SEE HERE, SIR, IN THE DIFFERENCE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE SHOWN TO YOU? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: RIGHT. WHICH PHOTOGRAPHS? Q: BY MS. CLARK: FIRST OF ALL, WITH RESPECT TO THE ENVELOPE, WOULD IT APPEAR THAT THERE WERE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN BEFORE THE BODIES WERE REMOVED? A: YES. Q: AND WOULD IT APPEAR THEN THAT AFTER THE BODIES WERE REMOVED, PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN AGAIN? A: YES, MA'AM. MR. COCHRAN: THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION. HE WASN'T THERE. HE WAS TOLD THAT. COUNSEL IS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE. MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR -- THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MS. CLARK: AS TO WHAT? THE COURT: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE. MS. CLARK: OKAY. Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU SAW THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE'VE JUST SHOWN YOU WHERE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN OF THE ENVELOPE BEFORE THE BODY WAS MOVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND THEN WE SHOWED YOU A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE ENVELOPE THAT WAS TAKEN AFTER THE BODY WAS REMOVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN OF THE ENVELOPE AFTER THE BODY WAS REMOVED, YOU SEE A NUMBER TAG? A: YES. Q: AND WAS THERE ALSO A PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN OF THE GLOVE BEFORE THE BODY WAS REMOVED? A: YES. Q: AND YOU SAW THAT? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND THEN THERE WAS A PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN OF THE GLOVE AFTER THE BODY WAS REMOVED? A: YES. Q: AND YOU SAW THAT? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND YOU SAW THAT THERE WAS A NUMBER TAG ON THE GLOVE AFTER THE BODY WAS REMOVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: AND IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE TAKEN AFTER THE BODIES WERE REMOVED, THE ENVELOPE AND THE GLOVE APPEARED TO YOU TO BE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION THAN THEY WERE BEFORE THE BODY WAS REMOVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: CORRECT. Q: YOU SEE THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 56-K? IT'S NO. 105. A: YES, I DO. Q: APPEARS TO MARK THE EVIDENCE ITEM OF A RING. THE COURT: I'M SORRY, MS. CLARK. THIS IS 56 -- MS. CLARK: K, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: K. MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO PUT IT UP ON THE LASER SO EVERYONE CAN SEE IT. Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU SEE THAT, SIR? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: DID YOU SEE THAT RING WHEN YOU WERE THERE? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: OF COURSE, IF IT WAS UNDER THE BODY OF RON GOLDMAN, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO, RIGHT? A: RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. THIS CALLS FOR SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: CAN WE CUT THE FEED FOR THE NEXT ONE, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES. MS. FAIRTLOUGH: THIS IS P-55, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WHO IS THAT PERSON POINTING TO THE GLOVE AND THE CAP UNDERNEATH THE BUSH? A: DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. Q: NOW, YOU I THINK TESTIFIED BEFORE THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN RETURNED FROM ROCKINGHAM TOGETHER; IS THAT RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: AND IT WAS AT THAT POINT THAT YOU SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GO AND POINT TO THE EVIDENCE FOR THE PHOTOGRAPHER? A: RIGHT. Q: AND THAT'S HIM WEARING THAT WHITE SHIRT AND THOSE BEIGE PANTS? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND WAS THAT SHORTLY -- MR. COCHRAN: WHAT NUMBER IS THIS, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: 55. MR. FAIRTLOUGH: P-55. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU. Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND WAS THAT SHORTLY BEFORE YOU LEFT AND GOT OFF DUTY? A: YES. Q: AND YOU GOT OFF DUTY ABOUT 7:15? A: RIGHT. Q: OKAY. AND WAS IT -- DID YOU TESTIFY BEFORE THAT MARK -- THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS ARRIVED AT THE SCENE AT ABOUT 2:10 WAS IT IN THE MORNING? A: I BELIEVE SO. I DON'T RECALL WHAT TIME IT WAS. Q: WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION, SIR, IF I SHOWED YOU THE CRIME SCENE LOG? A: I DIDN'T FILL OUT THE LOG. I DIDN'T PUT THE TIME IN, BUT YES. Q: PARDON? A: I DIDN'T FILL OUT THE LOG OR PUT THE TIME IN, BUT, YES. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, YOU'RE SHOWING THE OFFICER THE CRIME SCENE LOG, PERSONNEL LOG? MS. CLARK: YES, SIR. Q: BY MS. CLARK: I'M SHOWING YOU WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE CRIME SCENE LOG FOR 875 SOUTH BUNDY. DO YOU RECOGNIZE YOUR NAME AT THE VERY TOP? A: YES, I DO. Q: BECAUSE YOU WERE THE FIRST OFFICER THERE? A: YES. MY PARTNER AND I. Q: UH-HUH. AND DO YOU SEE THE ENTRY FOR DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS? A: YES. Q: DO YOU SEE THE TIME OF THEIR ARRIVAL STATED? A: YES, I DO. Q: AND IS THAT 2:10 IN THE MORNING? A: YES. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. THE DOCUMENT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. Q: BY MS. CLARK: DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR -- THE COURT: EXCUSE ME. COUNSEL, THIS IS NOT THE APPROPRIATE WAY TO REFRESH SOMEBODY'S RECOLLECTION, IS IT? MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. THE COURT: THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO READ IT TO THEMSELVES RATHER THAN TELL US WHAT'S THERE AND ASKED IF THAT REFRESHES THEIR RECOLLECTION. Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU READ THAT? A: YES, I CAN. Q: DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION? A: GENERALLY, YES. I DON'T RECALL EXACTLY WHAT TIME THEY GOT THERE. Q: DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE -- WHAT DO YOU THINK WAS THE TIME OF THEIR ARRIVAL, SIR? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, HE'S ANSWERED THAT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I BELIEVE IT WAS RIGHT AROUND 2:00, 2:15. Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. NOW, BY THAT TIME, THE CRIME SCENE, HAD IT BEEN SECURED? A: YES. Q: FOR ALMOST TWO HOURS? A: ACTUALLY ABOUT MAYBE AN HOUR AND HOUR AND 30 MINUTES, HOUR AND 20 MINUTES. Q: YOU GOT THERE AT? A: 12:13. Q: 12:13? AND HOW LONG AFTER GETTING THERE DID YOU SECURE THE CRIME SCENE? A: IT WAS SECURED WHEN WE STARTED TO SEARCH, WHICH WAS 12:30, 12:40. Q: OKAY. SO BETWEEN 12:30 AND 12:40? A: RIGHT. Q: SO BY THE TIME DETECTIVES PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN GOT THERE, THE CRIME SCENE HAD BEEN SECURED FOR HOUR AND 30, HOUR AND 40 MINUTES? A: RIGHT. Q: AND BY THAT TIME, HAD YOU AND OFFICER TERRAZAS SEEN THE CRIME SCENE? A: YES. Q: AND SERGEANT ROSSI, HAD HE SEEN THE CRIME SCENE AS WELL? A: RIGHT. Q: AND SERGEANT COON AND OFFICER WALLY, HAD THEY BEEN AT THE CRIME SCENE ALSO? A: YES. Q: AND THAT ALL HAPPENED BEFORE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN GOT THERE? A: YES, IT DID. Q: AND BY THE WAY, SERGEANT COON, IS HE RELATED IN ANY WAY TO THE OFFICER THAT TESTIFIED IN THE RODNEY KING CASE? A: NO. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: SUSTAINED THREE TIMES. MR. COCHRAN: THREE TIMES. THE COURT: THREE TIMES YOU'VE ASKED THAT QUESTION. MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T REMEMBER, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MS. CLARK: OFFICER RISKE, YOU WERE THE FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE, RIGHT? A: MY PARTNER AND I, YES. MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW MANY GLOVES DID YOU SEE AT BUNDY? A: ONE. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, ANY RECROSS? MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: OFFICER RISKE, A FEW QUESTIONS IF WE MIGHT. MR. COCHRAN: IF I MIGHT APPROACH, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: CERTAINLY. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THE -- THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE ON EXHIBIT NUMBER -- THIS IS 56-J. DO YOU SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE WHERE THE -- THIS IS MR. GOLDMAN'S FOOT, SHOE? A: YES. Q: DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE RED? A: IT'S ORANGE OR RED. Q: ORANGE OR RED. AND IT'S ALMOST TOUCHING THE GLOVE, ISN'T IT, ON THAT PHOTOGRAPH? A: RIGHT. Q: AND THIS WAS OBVIOUSLY BEFORE THE BODY WAS MOVED, RIGHT? A: YES. MR. COCHRAN: AND THIS IS 56-J, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: G. MS. CLARK: G. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: G. I AM SORRY. 56-G. AND WHILE WE'RE UP HERE, 56-G, THE GLOVE THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SEE AND THIS WATCH CAP WERE UNDER THIS KIND OF -- THIS PLANT BASICALLY; IS THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: THE WATCH CAP BEING MORE UNDER THE PLANT THAN THE GLOVE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO WE SEE THAT. MR. COCHRAN: NOW, I WANT TO BORROW ONE OF THE PEOPLE'S EXHIBITS, YOUR HONOR. MAY WE SEE NUMBER 55, JONATHAN? THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 55? MR. COCHRAN: ACTUALLY IT'S 55 OR -- 55? MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YES. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) THE COURT: 55 IS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN POINTING AT THE HAT AND GLOVE. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. WE'LL START WITH 55, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE -- CAN YOU SEE THAT? A: YES, I CAN. Q: AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHO WE'VE NOW IDENTIFIED, IS POINTING UNDER THAT SAME PLANT THAT WAS ON 56 -- THE COURT: G? MR. COCHRAN: 56-G, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, HE'S POINTING WHERE THE WATCH CAP IS AND WHERE THE GLOVE SUPPOSEDLY IS; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES. Q: OKAY. LET'S GO NOW TO 55. 59 RATHER, PEOPLE'S 59. NOW -- MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT 59? MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YES. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IN 59, DOES IT LOOK TO YOU LIKE THE TENNIS SHOE IS IN A DIFFERENT POSITION THAN IT WAS IN THE ONE WE JUST FINISHED LOOKING AT, 55? A: IT'S HARD TO TELL FROM THAT ANGLE. Q: YOU CAN'T TELL? A: NO. Q: WELL, LET'S LOOK AT 59-A. MR. COCHRAN: I DON'T THINK THAT WAS 59. THIS IS -- WHAT IS THIS? MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THIS IS PEOPLE'S 59. MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS 59? Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LOOK AT THOSE TENNIS SHOES ON 59. NOW, I WANT YOU TO LOOK CLOSELY AT 59. DO YOU SEE THOSE WHITE TENNIS SHOES THERE? A: I SEE ONE TENNIS SHOE AND THE TOP OF ANOTHER ONE. Q: ALL RIGHT. DOES IT APPEAR TO BE WHITE TO YOU? A: FROM THIS DISTANCE, YES. Q: WELL, YOU SAW IT THAT NIGHT. APPEARED TO BE WHITE TO YOU, THE TENNIS SHOE? A: WELL, WITH THE ORANGE ON IT, I MEAN THE RED OR ORANGE COLOR. Q: I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THIS ONE HERE. DO YOU SEE -- DOES THIS APPEAR TO BE WHITE TO YOU? A: YES. Q: OKAY. AND DOES THAT -- THAT'S THE RIGHT TENNIS SHOE YOU'RE SEEING THERE? A: I BELIEVE SO. Q: AND THAT APPEARS TO BE WHITE, DOESN'T IT? A: YES. Q: OKAY. MR. COCHRAN: NOW, IS THERE A 59-A, JONATHAN? MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YES. WE PRINTED THAT. MR. COCHRAN: WANT TO PUT THAT BACK UP THERE? Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WANT YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT 59-A. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. COCHRAN: NOW, THIS, YOUR HONOR, IS 59-A. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU SEE 59-A? A: YES. Q: DO YOU SEE THAT WHITE TENNIS SHOE ON THAT? A: YES, SIR. Q: SEE THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THAT TENNIS SHOE AND THAT ENVELOPE? A: YES. Q: IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, 59-A, DO YOU SEE ANY -- ANY ONE OF THE TENNIS SHOES BY A GLOVE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. IT'S A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING IN THIS. MR. COCHRAN: I'M ASKING HIM, YOUR HONOR, NOT HER. THE WITNESS: I SEE ONE OF THE TENNIS SHOES UNDERNEATH THE PLANT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WHERE IS THAT? A: IT'S TO THE LEFT OF THE PHOTOGRAPH OR TO THE RIGHT OF THE PHOTOGRAPH IN THE MIDDLE. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU SEE -- AND DOES IT APPEAR TO BE WHITE, THE PART YOU CAN SEE? A: YES. Q: IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE ORANGE AT THAT POINT, DOES IT? A: NO. Q: AND AGAIN, IF WE WERE TO COMPARE THAT PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT THERE NOW ON THE MONITOR WITH 56-J? THE COURT: IS IT G OR J? MR. COCHRAN: 56-G. I KEEP CALLING IT J. IT'S 56-G. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IN 56-G, THE TENNIS SHOE APPEARS TO BE ALMOST TOUCHING THE GLOVE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: NOW, BASED UPON MISS CLARK'S QUESTIONING, SIR, YOU -- WHEN YOU LEFT THE SCENE, YOU'VE ALREADY DESCRIBED FOR US THAT THE BODY -- THE BODIES HAD NOT BEEN MOVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: IN FACT, YOU CAN'T EVEN TELL US WHETHER OR NOT THE CORONER HAD BEEN CALLED, COULD YOU? A: NO. MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT'S IRRELEVANT, WHETHER HE KNEW WHETHER THE CORONER'S BEEN CALLED. MR. COCHRAN: IT BECOMES VERY RELEVANT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WILL STAND. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. YOU KNOW FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE THAT THERE'S AN OBLIGATION TO CALL THE CORONER AS SOON AS YOU ARRIVE AT THE SCENE WHEN THEY HAVE DEAD BODIES. YOU KNOW THAT, DON'T YOU? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT WITNESS FOR THAT QUESTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. IT'S NOT RELEVANT TO THIS WITNESS. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. VERY WELL, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AT ANY RATE, THE BODIES WERE STILL THERE WHEN YOU LEFT; IS THAT RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND WITH REGARD TO YOUR PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE, YOU TOLD US THAT IN OTHER CRIME SCENES WHERE EVIDENCE -- WHERE A BODY IS GOING TO BE MOVED, YOU'VE HAD SITUATIONS WHERE THE EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PICKED UP, THE BODIES REMOVED, THE EVIDENCE WAS PUT RIGHT BACK OR MARKED WHERE IT WAS BEFORE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: YOU KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT, IS IT NOT, TO GET THE EVIDENCE RIGHT WHERE IT WAS AND NOT BE MOVED ALL AROUND THE SCENE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: AS CLOSE -- MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: AS CLOSE AS WHERE IT WAS AS YOU CAN. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S RIGHT. YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO MOVE THE EVIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: AND IN LOOKING AT THESE SO-CALLED STRIATION MARKS, DOES IT APPEAR TO YOU THAT MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS DRAGGED ACROSS THAT ENVELOPE? DID YOU NOTICE ON SOME OF THOSE PICTURES THERE'S MORE DIRT ON THE ENVELOPE THAN THERE WERE BEFORE THE BODY WAS MOVED? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. COUNSEL IS TESTIFYING. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. MR. COCHRAN: I'M ASKING HIM. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION. THE COURT: REPHRASE THE QUESTION. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU LOOK AT THE ENVELOPES THAT -- THE ENVELOPE THAT WAS ON THAT -- ON THE PICTURE -- LET'S JUST GO UP AND JUST PICK A SPECIFIC ONE. THIS IS 56-J. NOW, YOU SEE 56-J HERE? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH WHERE THE ENVELOPE HAS OBVIOUSLY BEEN MOVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO 56-J -- MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, LET ME GET ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH IF I CAN. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, YOU LOOKED AT 56-J, RIGHT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND I WANT YOU TO LOOK NOW AT THE MONITOR AGAIN. DOES IT APPEAR TO YOU THERE'S MORE DIRT AND DEBRIS ON THAT ENVELOPE AT THE TIME YOU WERE THERE AND PRIOR TO IT BEING MOVED, MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY BEING MOVED? A: IT'S NOT REALLY A CLEAR PICTURE OF THE ENVELOPE. Q: WELL, LOOK AT THE ENVELOPE, SEE IF YOU CAN TELL. MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS HAS SAID IT'S NOT A CLEAR ENOUGH PICTURE. THE COURT: HE'S ASKED THE WITNESS TO LOOK AT IT MORE CAREFULLY. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: LOOK AT IT MORE CAREFULLY AND SEE IF YOU SEE THE SAME DIRT THAT YOU SEE ON 56-J THAT YOU SEE ON -- MR. COCHRAN: WHAT'S THE ONE UP THERE NOW, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: THIS IS I THINK -- MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 59-A. THE COURT: 59. MR. COCHRAN: 59-A. THE COURT: MR. HARRIS, CAN WE FOCUS THAT A LITTLE BETTER? MR. HARRIS: IT'S THE COPY OF THE PICTURE. IT'S THE PRINT. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.) MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS 59? MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YES. THE COURT: I'M SORRY. CAN WE GET A COVER OVER THAT BECAUSE I'M GETTING LIGHT REFLECTION. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: CAN YOU TELL FROM LOOKING AT 59 AND COMPARE THAT TO 56-H, THAT 59 SEEMS TO HAVE LESS DEBRIS ON IT THAN 56-J? A: IT REALLY LOOKS ABOUT THE SAME TO ME, SIR. Q: IT LOOKS ABOUT THE SAME TO YOU. DOES IT LOOK TO YOU FROM THOSE STRIATIONS THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS DRAGGED ACROSS THESE PARTICULAR EXHIBITS AND THE EXHIBITS WERE NOT MOVED BEFORE HIS BODY WAS DRAGGED ACROSS THE -- MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: I CAN'T TELL FROM THOSE STRIATIONS. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, ARE YOU -- STRIKE THAT. IN MISS CLARK'S QUESTIONING, WAS SHE SEEKING TO INFER THROUGH YOUR TESTIMONY THESE ITEMS HAVE BEEN MOVED BY THE CORONER? A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS TRYING TO INFER. Q: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS INFERRING? ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO BACK TO BASICS. THE COURT: PLEASE. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THE EVIDENCE AS I DESCRIBED FOR YOU LAST WEEK AND TODAY WAS IN FACT MOVED FROM WHERE YOU HAD SEEN IT; IS THAT CORRECT? A: YES, SIR. Q: AND BASED UPON YOUR TRAINING, EVIDENCE SHOULD NOT BE MOVED BY ANYONE AT THE CRIME SCENE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: UNLESS IT'S NECESSARY, RIGHT. Q: UNLESS IT'S NECESSARY? A: RIGHT. Q: CAN YOU THINK OF ANY REASONS WHY IT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO MOVE SOMEBODY'S EVIDENCE? A: WELL, IF YOU TAKE PHOTOS BEFORE AND YOU HAVE TO GET THE BODIES OUT AND THEN PUT IT BACK AND TAKE THE PHOTOS AGAIN. Q: SO YOU DESCRIBED FOR US UNDER THE PROCEDURE YOU UNDERSTOOD, YOU WOULD THEN PUT IT RIGHT BACK WHERE IT WAS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: WELL, AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN. MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WOULDN'T YOU TRY TO PUT THE EVIDENCE -- WOULD YOU INTENTIONALLY PUT EVIDENCE IN A DIFFERENT LOCATION THAN IT HAD BEEN, OFFICER? A: NO. Q: YOU WOULDN'T DO THAT, WOULD YOU? A: NO. Q: ISN'T IT IMPORTANT FOR A JURY OR A TRIER OF FACT TO HAVE THE EVIDENCE EXACTLY THE WAY IT WAS? MS. CLARK: ASKED AND ANSWERED. ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ONE OF THE REASONS THAT YOU PUT UP THE TAPE IS SO THE EVIDENCE WILL NOT BE INTERFERED WITH AND THE INTEGRITY OF THE EVIDENCE IS PRESERVED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: THAT'S THE WHOLE REASON FOR TRYING TO PRESERVE THE SCENE, ISN'T IT, SIR? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: OKAY. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE SCENE, YOU WERE SHOWN THESE PICTURES. YOU WERE SHOWN D-1000 AND 11. MR. COCHRAN: ASK YOU TO PUT THAT UP. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND WE'VE ASKED YOU EARLIER, YOU COULD NOT RECOGNIZE THIS PARTICULAR OFFICER; IS THAT CORRECT? A: NO. Q: BUT YOU HAVE NO DOUBT THIS IS AN LAPD OFFICER? A: I WOULD ASSUME FROM HIS UNIFORM HE IS. Q: SIMILAR TO YOUR UNIFORM, RIGHT? RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: ALL RIGHT. AND IN THIS PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH, WE DON'T HAVE THE BENEFIT OF SEEING WHETHER THE YELLOW MARKS ARE STILL UP, DO WE? A: NO. Q: THE YELLOW TAPE. BUT THIS OFFICER IS WALKING RIGHT UP THAT WALKWAY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND WHETHER THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN BY AMERICAN JOURNAL, HARD COPY OR 60 MINUTES, IT'S STILL A PHOTOGRAPH OF THAT SCENE, THE CRIME SCENE AT BUNDY WALKING UP THAT WALKWAY WHERE YOU FOUND THESE BODIES, RIGHT? A: IT'S A PICTURE OF THE SCENE. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A PICTURE OF THE CRIME SCENE. Q: WELL, IS THAT BUNDY? A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT PART OF THE CRIME SCENE? A: IF THE CRIME SCENE WAS STILL IN EFFECT AT THAT TIME. Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, THERE'S STILL A POLICE OFFICER THERE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: AND POLICE STAYED AROUND THERE FOR A WHILE THAT DAY; IS THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: YOU HAD LEFT AT 7:15 AND YOU NEVER CAME BACK, DID YOU, ON THAT DAY? A: NOT WHEN IT WAS STILL A CRIME SCENE, NO. Q: RIGHT. AND BY THE TIME -- AND AT SOME POINT WHEN YOU CAME BACK, THAT SCENE HAD BEEN WASHED DOWN, ALL THE BLOOD HAD BEEN WASHED AWAY; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: YOU CAN TELL FROM THIS PICTURE, D-1001, THAT THE BLOOD HAD NOT BEEN WASHED AWAY YET; ISN'T THAT CORRECT? A: RIGHT. Q: NOW, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US HOW IT WOULD BE GOOD TO TRY AND PRESERVE THE EVIDENCE AND VARIOUS THINGS BECAUSE AS THE FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE, YOU JUST WANT TO KIND OF PRESERVE THINGS UNTIL THE DETECTIVES WHO WERE BASICALLY MORE EXPERIENCED ARRIVED; IS THAT CORRECT? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND WOULDN'T IT BE HELPFUL THOUGH IF WITH REGARD TO THIS MELTING ICE CREAM IF YOU HAD A PICTURE OF THAT ICE CREAM, THE CONDITION IT WAS IN WHEN YOU WERE THERE? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION. MR. COCHRAN: NO. SHE ASKED -- THE COURT: WE'VE GONE OVER THIS. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, SHE ASKED IT - I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE -- ASK LEAVE -- I KNOW, BUT NOT THIS QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. I WOULD ASK LEAVE TO ASK THIS QUESTION. MS. CLARK: WELL, OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. MR. COCHRAN: ASK LEAVE, YOUR HONOR. SHE ASKED A QUESTION WITH REGARD TO THIS AND I THINK I SHOULD BE PERMITTED TO -- MS. CLARK: CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE COURT: YEAH. BUT I THINK I STOPPED BOTH OF YOU BECAUSE WE'VE GONE THROUGH -- WE KNOW THERE ARE NO PHOTOGRAPHS, CORRECT? THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW. THE COURT: YOU DIDN'T SEE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN. NEXT QUESTION. MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU WERE ASKED THE CONDITION OF THE ICE CREAM BY MISS CLARK, ABOUT THE MASS AND WAS MELTING ON THE SIDES. REMEMBER THOSE QUESTIONS? A: RIGHT. Q: WOULDN'T THE BEST EVIDENCE OF THE CONDITION OF THAT ICE CREAM BE A PHOTOGRAPH OF HOW IT APPEARED WHEN YOU SAW IT AT 12:35 A.M. ON JUNE 13TH, 1994? MS. CLARK: WELL, OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WITH REGARD TO YOUR GOING INSIDE THE PREMISES, SIR, AND USING THE PHONE, YOU -- SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, YOU COULD HAVE IN FACT CALLED YOUR SUPERIOR SERGEANT ROSSI ON YOUR ROVER, RIGHT? A: SURE. Q: SOME OF THE OFFICERS AT THE SCENE ALSO HAD CELLULAR TELEPHONES; DID THEY NOT? A: NOT TILL LATER, NO. Q: AT SOME POINT, THEY DID, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THEY HAD THEM AT THAT POINT? A: I FOUND OUT LATER DETECTIVE OR SERGEANT COON HAD ONE AND THEN DETECTIVES, WHEN THEY SHOWED UP, HAD ONE. Q: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HAD ONE ALSO, RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: SO THAT YOU WOULDN'T ALERT THE PRESS, YOU WENT INSIDE AND YOU USED MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S PHONE; IS THAT CORRECT? A: NOT JUST FOR THAT REASON, NO. Q: I MEAN BUT YOU USED THAT PHONE? A: RIGHT. Q: AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY GLOVES ON WHEN YOU USED THE PHONE, DID YOU? A: NO. Q: AND WITH REGARD TO PRINTS ON THAT PHONE, YOU USED YOUR OWN -- YOU USED YOUR PRINTS ON THAT PHONE, RIGHT? WERE YOU SEEKING TO PRESERVE PRINTS WHEN YOU DIALED THE PHONE? A: I REALLY WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT PRINTS WHEN I PICKED UP THE PHONE. Q: YOU WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT IT AT THE TIME, RIGHT? OKAY. AND WITH REGARD TO THE REDIAL BUTTON IF ANY ON THAT PHONE -- MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THIS WITNESS ALREADY TESTIFIED HE DOESN'T KNOW -- THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THE STAR 69 FEATURE ON THAT PHONE IF ANY -- MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU SEE ON THAT PHONE AN AUTOMATIC DIALER TO THE LEFT OF THE PHONE THAT HAD DAD AND OTHER NUMBERS RIGHT TO THE LEFT OF THAT PHONE AS YOU SAT THERE AND STARTED TO DIAL? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. IRRELEVANT. THE WITNESS: I DON'T THINK SO. MR. COCHRAN: IT'S VERY RELEVANT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I DON'T RECALL. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU DON'T RECALL SEEING AN AUTOMATIC DIALER? A: NO. I REALLY DON'T RECALL. Q: YOU DON'T RECALL? DID YOU EVER SEE ANY PICTURES TAKEN OF THE PHONE? A: NO. Q: NEVER? A: NO. Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE MEDIA AND THEIR ABILITY TO PLUG INTO THE FREQUENCY, DON'T YOU HAVE DIFFERENT FREQUENCIES WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT YOU COULD USE A DIFFERENT FREQUENCY WHERE THEY COULDN'T MONITOR IT? A: WE HAVE TAC CHANNELS, BUT -- Q: COULDN'T YOU HAVE USED THAT TO CONTACT THE -- A: I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WOULD BE MONITORED OR NOT. I DON'T KNOW IF A TAC CHANNEL WOULD BE MONITORED OR NOT. Q: WELL, THE TAC CHANNEL -- A: RIGHT. Q: IS THAT WHAT YOU CALL IT, THE TAC CHANNEL? A: RIGHT. Q: AND YOU DIDN'T USE THE TAC CHANNEL THOUGH? A: NO, I DIDN'T. Q: MISS CLARK SHOWED YOU A LOG INVOLVING DETECTIVES FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS. DO YOU RECALL THAT? A: YES. Q: AND IN LOOKING AT THAT LOG, WERE YOU EVER ABLE TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THEY LOGGED OUT TO GO OVER TO ROCKINGHAM? A: I DIDN'T LOOK AT THE ENTIRE LOG. I DON'T KNOW. Q: LET ME ASK -- MR. COCHRAN: MAY I GET THIS, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, WHY DON'T WE SAVE THAT FOR THE OFFICER WHO WAS MAINTAINING THE LOG. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY, YOUR HONOR. I'LL DO THAT, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. MAY I JUST HAVE A SECOND? THE COURT: SURE. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THIS OFFICER ONE OTHER QUESTION REGARDING THAT. THE COURT: CERTAINLY. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THE LOG AT THE SCENE, WHEN YOU LEAVE THE SCENE, IS IT INCUMBENT UPON THE OFFICER TO GO TO THE PERSON KEEPING THE LOG AND SAY, "I'M LEAVING. CHECK ME OUT, WHEN I COME BACK, LOG ME BACK IN"? A: YES. Q: THAT'S THE OFFICER'S RESPONSIBILITY, RIGHT? RIGHT? A: YES. Q: ALL RIGHT. IN SPEAKING ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE EVIDENCE, OFFICER RISKE, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT IF A BODY WAS DRAGGED OVER KEY ITEMS OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE, THERE WOULD BE A GREATER CHANCE FOR CONTAMINATION OF THAT EVIDENCE THAN IF THE EVIDENCE HAD BEEN LIFTED UP OR MOVED? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. WITH THIS WITNESS, COUNSEL. YOU CAN ASK THAT QUESTION OF THE INVESTIGATING OFFICER, THE DETECTIVE AT THE SCENE. MR. COCHRAN: OKAY, YOUR HONOR. I'LL WAIT AND I'LL DO THAT. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: BY THE WAY, OFFICER RISKE, YOU WERE ASKED SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT FOOTPRINTS IN THE AREA WHERE THAT PICTURE -- WHERE DETECTIVE FUHRMAN HAD HIS FOOT AND WAS POINTING TOWARD THE SO-CALLED EVIDENCE. A: RIGHT. Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A SITUATION WHERE PLASTER OF PARIS CASTS ARE USED TO DETERMINE FOOTPRINTS? HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THAT? A: NO, I HAVEN'T. Q: IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, YOUR FOUR YEARS, YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THAT YET? A: NO. Q: AND SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, AS THE FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE, OFFICER RISKE, YOU WERE THERE TO MAKE OBSERVATIONS AND BASICALLY TRY TO PRESERVE THE SCENE UNTIL THE DETECTIVES -- MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, CAN WE GET THE PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN DOWN? MR. COCHRAN: YES. THE COURT: YES. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: -- PRESERVE THE SCENE UNTIL THE INVESTIGATORS ARRIVED; IS THAT RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: HAVE YOU IN YOUR EXPERIENCE SEEN OR BEEN TRAINED THAT THE BEST EVIDENCE OF PRESERVING EVIDENCE AT THE SCENE IS THE USE OF A VIDEOTAPE THAT WOULD COVER, SHOW US EVERYTHING IN PERSPECTIVE? HAVE YOU BEEN SO INSTRUCTED? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE QUESTION IS HAS HE BEEN SO INSTRUCTED. Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: BEEN SO INSTRUCTED? A: NO. Q: THE CRIME SCENES WHICH YOU HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS, HAVE YOU SEEN THE LAPD USE THE VIDEOTAPE OR VIDEO CAMERA? A: NO, I HAVEN'T. Q: AT NO TIME? A: NO. Q: YOU NEVER WENT TO THE ROCKINGHAM SCENE ON THIS DATE, DID YOU, UNTIL LATE -- A: NO, I DIDN'T. MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. NOTHING FURTHER. THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: VERY BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: AND I ASSUME WE HAVE OUR NEXT WITNESS ON HIS OR HER WAY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 57. THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 57. FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK: Q: OKAY. THIS PHOTOGRAPH, PEOPLE'S 57, YOU SEE THE LOGO, AMERICAN JOURNAL THE LOWER RIGHT-HAND CORNER? A: YES. Q: DO YOU SEE THE OFFICER AT THE SCENE AT THIS -- WALKING ON THIS WALKWAY, SIR? A: YES, I DO. Q: DOES IT APPEAR TO BE BROAD DAYLIGHT? A: YES, IT DOES. Q: AND THE FACT THAT AN OFFICER IS STILL AT THE SCENE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE CRIME SCENE IS STILL INTACT? A: NO. Q: HAVE OFFICERS -- IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HAS IT OCCURRED THAT OFFICERS HAVE BEEN AT A SCENE WHERE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE IS TAKEN DOWN AND THE CRIME SCENE IS RELEASED? A: YES. Q: AND ESPECIALLY AT THAT PARTICULAR SCENE, I THINK YOU INDICATED EARLIER ON CROSS-EXAMINATION, SIR, THAT YOU WENT TO ROCKINGHAM TO ASSIST IN THE TRAFFIC CONTROL AT ROCKINGHAM? A: BUT THAT WAS AROUND MIDNIGHT. Q: AT ROCKINGHAM? A: RIGHT. Q: AT MIDNIGHT ON JUNE 13TH? A: RIGHT. Q: WHY WERE YOU STILL WORKING TRAFFIC CONTROL THERE AT MIDNIGHT? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THIS IS IRRELEVANT AND IMMATERIAL. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: BECAUSE THE NEWS MEDIA SET UP AROUND MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE AND THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAINED ABOUT NOISE AND TRAFFIC CONGESTION. Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND SO -- WHAT ABOUT AT BUNDY? WAS THERE TRAFFIC CONTROL BEING COORDINATED AT BUNDY AS WELL? A: I BELIEVE BUNDY SHUT DOWN FOR A TIME. Q: THE WHOLE STREET SHUT DOWN? A: FROM DOROTHY TO GORHAM. Q: AND WAS THAT WHILE YOU WERE THERE? A: YES. Q: AND TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, WAS TRAFFIC CONTROL MAINTAINED THERE FOR SOME TIME AFTER THAT? MR. COCHRAN: CALLS FOR SPECULATION. HE LEFT AT 7:15, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SHE ASKED TO HIS KNOWLEDGE. IF HE KNOWS. THE WITNESS: WE OPENED IT UP BEFORE I LEFT. Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. AND THEN WHAT ABOUT MEDIA CONTROL THOUGH AND CROWD CONTROL? WAS THAT STILL SOMETHING BEING DONE AT BUNDY? A: THERE WAS NO MEDIA OR CROWD WHEN I LEFT. I DON'T KNOW. Q: AT 7:15? A: RIGHT. Q: WERE YOU THERE LATER IN THE DAY? A: AGAIN, IT WOULD BE BETWEEN 11:15 AND MIDNIGHT. Q: AT BUNDY? A: RIGHT. Q: OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU SEE AT BUNDY AT 11:15 OR MIDNIGHT ON JUNE 13TH? A: PEOPLE STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK TAKING PICTURES AND, YOU KNOW, FREE O.J. OR -- Q: SIGNS -- A: -- ONLOOKERS. Q: UH-HUH. SO THERE WAS STILL PEOPLE CROWDING AROUND BUNDY AT MIDNIGHT ON JUNE THE 13TH? A: THAT'S CORRECT. MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR. HE ANSWERED THAT. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU WERE SHOWN THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF DETECTIVE FUHRMAN POINTING TO EVIDENCE AND THEN OTHER PHOTOGRAPHS -- THEN YOU WERE SHOWN PHOTOGRAPH 56-G? A: CORRECT. Q: DID THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS, SIR, APPEAR TO BE TAKEN FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES? A: YES, THEY DID. MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, MR. GOLDMAN IS SHOWN, PART OF HIM, IN PEOPLE 56-D. DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE BLOOD ON HIS JEANS? A: YES, IT DOES. Q: DID HE APPEAR TO BE FAIRLY BLOODY, SIR? A: YES. Q: AND WHAT ABOUT THE BOOT SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 56-G? DO YOU SEE A PART OF THE BOOT IN THAT THAT IS STILL WHITE? A: YES, I DO. Q: AND THE RED PART, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE BLOOD, SIR? A: APPEARS TO BE BLOOD AND DIRT. Q: DO YOU RECALL THE POSITION IN WHICH MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS WEDGED AROUND THE STUMP AND UP AGAINST THE GATE? MR. COCHRAN: I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION. MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. CAN WE CUT THE FEED, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES. MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 59, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU SEE THE POSITION THAT MR. GOLDMAN IS SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 59, SIR? A: YES, I DO. Q: IS THAT THE WAY YOU FOUND HIM, SIR? A: YES, IT IS. Q: HOW BIG DID HE APPEAR TO BE TO YOU? A: 5/10, 5/11. Q: UH-HUH. ABOUT 180 POUNDS? A: POSSIBLY 190. I DON'T KNOW. Q: UH-HUH. HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO LIFT -- AND YOU TESTIFIED THIS WAS A SMALL AREA WHERE YOU FOUND HIM, RIGHT? A: RIGHT. Q: HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO LIFT A 180-POUND, 5/11 -- MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. Q: BY MS. CLARK: -- DEAD PERSON FROM A SMALL AREA LIKE THAT? THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NOT FROM A SMALL AREA LIKE THAT, BUT I HAVE LIFTED A 5/11 DEAD PERSON. Q: BY MS. CLARK: ABOUT 180, 190 POUNDS? A: I REALLY DON'T REMEMBER THE WEIGHT. Q: PRETTY HARD TO DO? A: YES. Q: ESPECIALLY IN A SMALL AREA LIKE THAT. A: RIGHT. Q: DO YOU KNOW THAT -- DID YOU KNOW THAT ONE OF THE CORONER'S INVESTIGATORS THAT REMOVED THE BODY WAS A WOMAN? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: HE WASN'T EVEN THERE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. DANGEROUS TERRITORY. MS. CLARK: OKAY. (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIR, ARE YOU ACQUAINTED WITH A MAN BY THE NAME OF LIEUTENANT SPANGLER? A: YES. Q: DID YOU SEE HIM AT THE BUNDY SCENE THAT NIGHT? A: YES, I DID. Q: AND WHEN THE DETECTIVE -- BEFORE DETECTIVES LEFT TO GO TO ROCKINGHAM TO NOTIFY THE DEFENDANT, WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER AT THE SCENE? MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: WAS HE AT THE SCENE BEFORE THEY LEFT OR -- Q: BY MS. CLARK: AT THE TIME THAT THEY LEFT, WAS LIEUTENANT SPANGLER AT THE SCENE IF YOU KNOW? A: I DIDN'T SEE HIM LEAVE. I DON'T KNOW. I SAW HIM BEFORE. THEY HAD TALKED ABOUT LEAVING. I DIDN'T SEE HIM LEAVE. I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS STILL THERE OR NOT. Q: YOU DON'T KNOW IF LIEUTENANT SPANGLER WAS STILL THERE WHEN THE DETECTIVES LEFT OR NOT? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: BUT YOU DID SEE HIM AT THE SCENE BEFORE THEY LEFT? A: YES, I DID. MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: JUST THREE QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR. FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN: Q: DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CARS WENT TO ROCKINGHAM? A: NO, I DON'T. Q: AND WITH REGARD TO THAT PHOTOGRAPH OF MR. GOLDMAN WHERE YOU SAW THAT HE WAS COVERED WITH BLOOD, YOU WOULD EXPECT ALSO THAT HIS ASSAILANT WOULD ALSO BE COVERED WITH BLOOD; WOULD YOU NOT? MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION. MR. COCHRAN: HE CAN ANSWER THAT. IF HE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT, HE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. ALL RIGHT. OFFICER RISKE, YOU ARE NOW EXCUSED. PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE LAWYERS FROM THE CASE. AND WE'LL -- I'M GOING TO EXCUSE YOU FOR TODAY. YOU MAY BE RECALLED, HOWEVER. THE WITNESS: THANK YOU. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S NEXT WITNESS. MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: CERTAINLY. HOW ABOUT IF WE GET THE WITNESS ON HIS OR HER WAY THOUGH? MS. CLARK: HE'S DOWN. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, PEOPLE CALL DETECTIVE ROSSI. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHAT'S SERGEANT ROSSI'S FIRST NAME? MS. CLARK: DAVE. THE COURT: DAVID. (BRIEF PAUSE.) MR. DARDEN: I DON'T SEE HIM DIRECTLY OUTSIDE THE COURT, YOUR HONOR. MS. CLARK: MAY I CALL UPSTAIRS, PLEASE? THE COURT: PLEASE. MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH OFF THE RECORD? THE COURT: SURE. (A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.) THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I'M SURE YOU WILL RECALL THE ELEVATORS IN THIS BUILDING. (BRIEF PAUSE.) THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I AM SORRY. THE COURT: IT'S ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. SERGEANT ROSSI, WOULD YOU COME OVER HERE, STAND BY THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE. MRS. ROBERTSON. DAVID ROSSI, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD? THE WITNESS: YES, I DO. THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD. THE WITNESS: D-A-V-I-D R-O-S-S-I. THE CLERK: THANK YOU. THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK: Q: SERGEANT ROSSI, CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING? A: I'M A SERGEANT WITH THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT PRESENTLY ASSIGNED TO WEST LOS ANGELES DIVISION. Q: AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN AT THAT ASSIGNMENT? A: I HAVE WORKED WEST LOS ANGELES FOR JUST ABOUT FIVE YEARS. Q: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A POLICE OFFICER? A: UMM, IT WILL BE 26 YEARS IN MAY, THIS COMING MAY. Q: 26? HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A SERGEANT, SIR? A: I MADE SERGEANT IN NOVEMBER OF 1979. SO I THINK THAT MAKES IT PRETTY CLOSE TO 15 YEARS. Q: WHAT ARE YOUR -- YOU SAID YOU ARE CURRENTLY ASSIGNED AS A WATCH COMMANDER? A: I'M CURRENTLY ASSIGNED AS THE MORNING ASSISTANT WATCH COMMANDER. WE REFER TO THAT AS AN AWC. MY DUTIES ARE THE SAME AS A LIEUTENANT WATCH COMMANDER WHEN THE LIEUTENANT IS OFF; AND WHEN HE'S ON, IF WE'RE BOTH WORKING, IF HE'S NOT OFF, THEN I ASSIST HIM OR HER. Q: WHAT DO YOU DO? WHAT DOES A WATCH COMMANDER DO? A: A WATCH COMMANDER OVERSEES THE ACTIVITIES OF ALL OF THE POLICE OFFICERS AND FIELD SERGEANTS ON THE WATCH OR SHIFT. THE WATCH COMMANDER APPROVES ALL BOOKINGS OF THE POLICE OFFICERS. OCCASIONALLY, I'LL APPROVE BOOKINGS FOR CALIFORNIA HIGHWAY PATROL OFFICERS THAT USE OUR FACILITY. I REVIEW AND APPROVE ALL ARREST REPORTS AND CRIME REPORTS. AND IN ADDITION TO HANDLING USUALLY A MOUNTAIN OF UNRELATED ADMINISTRATIVE PAPERWORK, I RESPOND TO THE FIELD FOR VARIOUS REASONS. Q: NOW, UNDER WHAT CONDITIONS WOULD YOU RESPOND TO THE FIELD? A: I'LL GO OUT IN THE FIELD IF AN OFFICER OR SERGEANT REQUESTS MY PRESENCE ON A PARTICULAR SITUATION, AND THEN THERE ARE SOME INCIDENTS THAT OCCUR THAT THE DEPARTMENT MANDATES THAT I RESPOND TO, AND GENERALLY VIOLENT CRIMES AND OF COURSE ANY KIND OF HOMICIDE I HAVE TO RESPOND TO. Q: IN ANY KIND OF HOMICIDE? A: YES, MA'AM. Q: AND WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO -- WHAT ARE YOUR DUTIES WITH RESPECT TO, FOR EXAMPLE, A HOMICIDE SCENE THAT YOU RESPOND TO? A: MY JOB IS TO GO OUT TO THE SCENE AND TO ENSURE THAT THE SCENE IS PROPERLY SECURED AND ANY OBVIOUS EVIDENCE IS PROTECTED UNTIL THE INVESTIGATORS GET THERE. PRIOR TO LEAVING TO GO OUT IN THE FIELD, THERE ARE CERTAIN NOTIFICATIONS THAT I HAVE TO MAKE TO THE DETECTIVES AND TO MY COMMAND STAFF. Q: AND WHY IS THAT? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO MAKE THOSE NOTIFICATIONS BEFORE YOU LEAVE THE STATION TO YOUR COMMAND STAFF AND OFFICERS? A: AND TO DETECTIVES? Q: AND TO DETECTIVES? A: WELL, I GENERALLY MAKE THE NOTIFICATIONS TO DETECTIVES FIRST BECAUSE I NEED TO GET THEM ROLLING. THEY ARE THE OFFICERS THAT WILL ULTIMATELY HANDLE THE INVESTIGATION. AND THEN I WILL GO AHEAD AND MAKE THE VARIOUS COMMAND STAFF NOTIFICATIONS BECAUSE OUR COMMAND STAFF NEEDS TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, ESPECIALLY IN HOMICIDE CASES. Q: AND BY COMMAND STAFF, YOU MEAN THE PEOPLE ABOVE YOU? A: YES. YES, MA'AM. Q: NOW, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION, SIR, TO THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, AS OF THAT DATE, WERE YOU ASSIGNED AS THE ASSISTANT WATCH COMMANDER AT THE WEST L.A. STATION? A: YES, I WAS, ON MORNING WATCH. Q: DO YOU RECALL GETTING A CALL FROM OFFICER ROBERT RISKE? A: YES. ACTUALLY I WAS ASSIGNED AS THE WATCH COMMANDER THAT NIGHT BECAUSE THE LIEUTENANT WAS OFF. SO I WAS SITTING IN AS THE WATCH COMMANDER. YES, I DID RECEIVE A CALL FROM OFFICER RISKE. Q: REMEMBER WHAT TIME IT WAS THAT YOU GOT THAT CALL FROM HIM? A: I BELIEVE IT WAS SOMEWHERE AROUND 12:30, 12:35 IN THE MORNING. Q: SIR, IS YOUR MEMORY FRESH WITH REGARD TO WHAT TIME YOU GOT THE CALL FROM OFFICER RISKE? A: IT'S NOT REAL FRESH, NO. I HAVEN'T LOOKED AT ANYTHING SINCE THEN. HOWEVER, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WAS SOMETHING AFTER MIDNIGHT. Q: SHORTLY AFTER MIDNIGHT? A: YES. MS. CLARK: EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. (BRIEF PAUSE.) Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIR, WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION IF I SHOWED YOU A COPY OF THE CRIME SCENE LOG AS TO WHAT TIME YOU WERE CALLED? MR. BAILEY: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. HE HASN'T SAID HIS RECOLLECTION NEEDS REFRESHING. MS. CLARK: I THINK THAT'S WHAT HIS LAST ANSWER EXACTLY WAS. THE COURT: NO. HIS LAST ANSWER, HE SAYS SHORTLY AFTER MIDNIGHT, YES, FIRST CALL. CRIME SCENE LOG IS WHEN THEY GOT THERE. MS. CLARK: HE ALSO TESTIFIED, YOUR HONOR, THAT HE THOUGHT IT WAS AROUND 12:30 AND THAT HE -- SHALL I HAVE HIS ANSWERS READ BACK, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: NO. I'VE JUST READ THEM MYSELF. MS. CLARK: AND I ASKED HIM IF HIS MEMORY WAS FRESH WITH RESPECT TO WHEN HE GOT THE CALL AND HE SAID IT'S NOT REAL FRESH, NO. OBVIOUSLY HE HASN'T LOOKED AT ANYTHING SINCE THEN. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PROCEED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION IF I WERE TO SHOW YOU THE CRIME SCENE LOG? A: YES, IT WOULD. Q: THANK YOU YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH HOW THESE ARE PREPARED; ARE YOU NOT, SIR? A: YES, I AM. Q: SHOWING YOU THE LOG WITH THE ENTRY OF OFFICER RISKE FOR HIS TIME OF ARRIVAL -- A: IT SHOWS OFFICER RISKE ARRIVING -- THE COURT: EXCUSE ME. HOLD ON. SERGEANT, WOULD YOU JUST READ THAT TO YOURSELF AND SEE IF THAT REFRESHES YOUR RECOLLECTION. THE WITNESS: (WITNESS COMPLIES.) YES. SOMEWHAT, YES. Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND HAVING SEEN THAT CRIME SCENE LOG, SIR, YOUR MEMORY IS SOMEWHAT REFRESHED AS TO WHEN YOU GOT THE CALL FROM OFFICER RISKE? A: YES. Q: AND WHAT IS YOUR ESTIMATE OF THE TIME YOU GOT THAT CALL, SIR? A: AROUND 12 -- 0025, 25 MINUTES AFTER 12:00. MR. BAILEY: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT. IT APPEARS THAT HE'S READING FROM A PIECE OF PAPER. THE COURT: WOULD YOU TAKE THAT AWAY, PLEASE, MISS CLARK? MS. CLARK: HE DOESN'T APPEAR THAT HE'S DOING THAT AS A MATTER OF FACT WHEN HE TESTIFIED. Q: BY MS. CLARK: LET ME POINT SOMETHING OUT TO YOU, SIR. DO YOU SEE THE TIME OF ARRIVAL -- A: YES. Q: -- FOR OFFICER RISKE THERE? A: YES. 20 MINUTES AFTER 12:00. Q: UH-HUH. AND THEN -- AND THAT HELPS YOU, SIR, TO ASSIST, TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AS TO WHEN YOU GOT THE CALL? MR. BAILEY: OBJECTION. LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MS. CLARK: IT'S FOUNDATIONAL. HE'S ALREADY SAID THAT. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. YOU CAN ASK HIM A NON-LEADING WAY. Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION WITH RESPECT TO WHEN YOU GOT THE CALL FROM HIM? A: WELL, I'M JUST -- I'M FIGURING IF OFFICER RISKE ARRIVED AT 20 MINUTES AFTER 12:00, HE PHONED ME SHORTLY THEREAFTER. Q: THANK YOU. AND WHAT DID -- DID OFFICER RISKE GIVE YOU SOME INFORMATION WITH RESPECT TO WHAT HE WAS THERE -- WHAT HE WAS AT THE SCENE FOR? A: OFFICER RISKE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS ON THE SCENE OF A DOUBLE HOMICIDE. Q: AND DID HE GIVE YOU A LOCATION? A: YES. HE GAVE ME THE ADDRESS. Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT? A: 875 SOUTH BUNDY. Q: AND DID HE TELL YOU -- AND DID HE GIVE YOU ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THE SCENE AS HE FOUND IT AT THAT TIME? A: HE TOLD ME THAT THERE WAS A FEMALE AND A MALE VICTIM OUTSIDE OF THE LOCATION. HE TOLD ME IT WAS A CONDOMINIUM AND HE TOLD ME THAT THE DOOR WAS OPEN TO THE CONDOMINIUM, THE FRONT DOOR, AND HE SAID HE HAD NOT -- HE HAD NOT CLEARED THE HOUSE YET AND HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE HAD IN THE HOUSE. Q: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, HAD NOT CLEARED THE HOUSE YET? A: THAT MEANS THAT IT'S UNKNOWN WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE IF ANYTHING INSIDE THE HOUSE, THAT THERE MAY BE OTHER VICTIMS IN THE HOUSE, BECAUSE THIS WAS SUCH A VIOLENT CRIME, OR SUSPECTS, AND SO IT WAS IMPERATIVE THAT HE GO THROUGH THE HOUSE AND MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING WAS OKAY IN THAT RESPECT. Q: AND DID YOU GIVE HIM SOME INSTRUCTION, SIR? A: YES, I DID. I TOLD HIM TO -- FIRST, I ASKED HIM IF HE HAD REQUESTED A SUPERVISOR, AND HE SAID THAT HE HAD. AND THEN I TOLD HIM, OKAY, GO AHEAD AND CHECK THE HOUSE AND MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE NO MORE VICTIMS AND TELL THE RESPONDING SUPERVISOR TO CALL ME BACK AS SOON AS HE COULD. Q: DID YOU GET ANOTHER CALL THEN FROM THE -- FROM SOMEONE AT THE SCENE? A: YES. SHORTLY THEREAFTER, I RECEIVED A TELEPHONE CALL FROM SERGEANT MARTY COON. Q: AND DID HE GIVE YOU SOME INFORMATION AS WELL? A: HE TOLD ME THAT -- THAT HE HAD RECEIVED INFORMATION FROM OFFICER RISKE, THAT THEY HAD CLEARED THE HOUSE, THAT THEY HAD FOUND TWO YOUNG CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE AND THAT HE HAD A UNIT EN ROUTE TO THE LOCATION TO TRANSPORT, TO TAKE THE CHILDREN INTO PROTECTIVE CUSTODY AND TRANSPORT THEM TO WEST LOS ANGELES DIVISION. MS. CLARK: WOULD THIS BE A GOOD TIME? THE COURT: MISS CLARK? MS. CLARK: YES. I'M ASSUMING THE COURT WANTS TO TAKE A NOON BREAK. I'M GOING TO MOVE INTO A DIFFERENT AREA AT THIS POINT. WANT ME TO -- THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE NOON HOUR AT THIS TIME. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T LET ANYBODY CONTACT, COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, DO NOT CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS ON THE MATTER UNTIL IT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE AT 1:30. SERGEANT ROSSI, YOU MAY STEP DOWN. YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN HERE AT 1:30. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS, 1:30. (AT 12:00 P.M., THE NOON RECESS WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.) LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1995 1:30 P.M. DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.) (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT. ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE MEDIA TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US. ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. SERGEANT ROSSI, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE. DAVID ROSSI, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE NOON RECESS, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS: THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THE JURY: GOOD AFTERNOON. THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE BEEN JOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION. MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MS. CLARK: Q: I THINK WHERE WE LEFT OFF, SIR, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU GOT A CALL FROM SERGEANT MARTY COON WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT A DOUBLE HOMICIDE? A: YES, I DID. Q: AND DID HE INDICATE ANYTHING ELSE TO YOU ABOUT THE NATURE OF THAT CASE? A: HE CONFIRMED WHAT OFFICER RISKE HAD SAID ABOUT A MALE AND A FEMALE VICTIM AND HE HAD TOLD ME -- HE TOLD ME AT THAT POINT THAT THE HOUSE HAD BEEN CLEARED AND THAT THERE WERE NO MORE VICTIMS IN THE HOUSE. Q: DID HE INDICATE ANYTHING TO YOU WITH RESPECT TO WHAT THE POSSIBLE IDENTITY OF ONE OF THE VICTIMS MIGHT BE? A: HE TOLD ME THAT HE WAS PRETTY SURE THAT THE FEMALE VICTIM WAS NICOLE SMITH -- EXCUSE ME -- NICOLE SIMPSON. Q: BUT DID HE KNOW FOR SURE AT THAT POINT? A: HE DIDN'T KNOW FOR SURE. HE THOUGHT THERE WAS A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE THAT IS WHO IT WAS. HE WAS TOLD BY ONE OF THE OFFICERS, I DON'T KNOW WHO IT WAS, THAT NICOLE SIMPSON DID LIVE AT THAT LOCATION. Q: WAS THERE ANY INDICATION AS TO THE POSSIBLE IDENTITY OF THE MALE VICTIM? A: NO. Q: DID YOU GIVE HIM SOME INSTRUCTION AT THAT POINT? A: I ASKED HIM IF THE CRIME SCENE HAD BEEN SECURED AND HE INDICATED THAT IT HAD AND I TOLD HIM THAT I WOULD RESPOND FROM THE POLICE STATION AS SOON AS I COULD, THAT I HAD NOTIFICATIONS TO MAKE, TELEPHONIC NOTIFICATIONS. Q: AND DID YOU MAKE THOSE NOTIFICATIONS? A: YES, I DID. Q: WHO DID YOU NOTIFY? A: I MADE SIX TELEPHONIC NOTIFICATIONS TO DETECTIVES AND MY COMMAND STAFF. THE FIRST TELEPHONE CALL I MADE WAS TO DETECTIVE FRANK SPANGLER, WHO IS THE COMMANDING OFFICER OF WEST LOS ANGELES DETECTIVES. Q: IS HE A LIEUTENANT? A: LIEUTENANT, YES, MA'AM. THERE WAS NO ONE HOME THERE; HOWEVER, I DID GET AN ANSWERING MACHINE AND I LEFT A MESSAGE ON THE MACHINE. Q: NOW, IS HE OF HIGHER RANK THAN THE DETECTIVES? A: YES, HE IS. Q: AND WHO ELSE DID YOU CALL? A: I THEN CALLED DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS. HE WAS HOME. AND I TOLD HIM WHAT WE HAD AND THE LOCATION AND HE INDICATED TO ME THAT HE WOULD BE RESPONDING VERY SHORTLY THEREAFTER AND THAT HE WOULD PICK UP OR AT LEAST MEET DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN, THAT I DID NOT HAVE TO CALL HIM. Q: OKAY. AND WHO ELSE DID YOU CALL? A: I THEN CALLED WEST L.A. AREA COMMANDING OFFICER, BOB KURTH. Q: WHAT IS HIS RANK? A: CAPTAIN. Q: IS THAT ABOVE A LIEUTENANT? A: YES, IT IS. Q: WHO ELSE DID YOU CALL? A: I THEN NOTIFIED DEPUTY CHIEF RON FRANKLE WHO IS THE COMMANDING OFFICER OF OPERATIONS WEST BUREAU. Q: AND IS HE ABOVE OR BELOW CAPTAIN KURTH IN TERMS OF RANK? A: HE IS ABOVE CAPTAIN KURTH. Q: AND WHO ELSE DID YOU CALL? A: AND THEN I PHONED THE ASSISTANT COMMANDING OFFICER OF OPERATIONS WEST BUREAU WHO IS COMMANDER BUSHY WHO IS JUST UNDER DEPUTY CHIEF FRANKLE. Q: NOW, DEPUTY CHIEF RON FRANKEL AND COMMANDER BUSHEY THEN BOTH OUTRANK LIEUTENANT SPANGLER? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: AND THEN OBVIOUSLY THEY OUTRANK ALL THE DETECTIVES AS WELL? A: YES, THEY DO. Q: AND WHO ELSE DID YOU CALL? A: THE LAST PHONE CALL I MADE WAS TO THE WEST L.A. PATROL CAPTAIN, CONSTANCE DIAL. Q: CONNIE? A: CONNIE DIAL, YES. Q: IS IT COMMON TO MAKE ALL THOSE NOTIFICATIONS WHENEVER YOU GET A HOMICIDE? A: IT IS COMMON TO MAKE THE NOTIFICATIONS TO THE DETECTIVES AND TO THE COMMAND STAFF OF THE -- OF WEST L.A. -- OF YOUR AREA AND DIVISION. AS FAR AS THE OPERATIONS WEST BUREAU COMMAND STAFF, DEPUTY CHIEF FRANKLE AND BUSHEY, I WAS TOLD TO MAKE THOSE NOTIFICATIONS BY CAPTAIN KURTH. Q: WHY? A: BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBLE NOTORIETY OF THIS PARTICULAR INCIDENT. Q: AND AFTER YOU MADE THOSE NOTIFICATIONS, WHAT DID YOU DO? A: I THEN WAS INFORMED BY MY DESK OFFICER THAT THERE HAD BEEN SOME WITNESSES FROM THE LOCATION TRANSPORTED TO THE WEST LOS ANGELES POLICE STATION AND THAT THE TWO CHILDREN HAD ARRIVED. I WAS TOLD THAT THE TWO -- THE WITNESSES, OTHER THAN THE CHILDREN, WERE UPSTAIRS IN DETECTIVES AND THAT THERE WAS AN OFFICER WITH THEM, AND I WAS INFORMED THAT THE TWO CHILDREN WERE IN OUR CONFERENCE ROOM, SO I WENT OVER AND I LOOKED IN THE CONFERENCE ROOM AND I SAW THE TWO CHILDREN IN THERE WITH -- WITH ONE OF MY OFFICERS AND I MADE SURE THAT THEY WERE OKAY. I DIDN'T SPEAK WITH THEM AT THAT TIME, BUT THEY SEEMED TO BE OKAY. Q: AND THEN YOU LEFT? A: YES. THEN I INFORMED THE DESK THAT I WAS GOING TO BE EN ROUTE TO THE LOCATION ON BUNDY AND WE CHECKED OUT A POLICE CAR AND I WAS DRIVEN TO THE LOCATION BY A SERGEANT THAT HAD BEEN IN THE STATION WITH ME BY THE NAME OF SERGEANT KURT HUSSEY. THE COURT: HOW DO YOU SPELL HUSSEY? THE WITNESS: H-U-S-S-E-Y. THE COURT: THANK YOU. Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU GOT TO THE SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY, SIR? A: I BELIEVE I ARRIVED AT THE SCENE VERY CLOSE TO 0130 HOURS, 1:30 IN THE MORNING, BETWEEN -- I THINK IT WAS RIGHT ABOUT 1:30, YES. Q: OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU -- WHERE DID YOU PARK? A: THE POLICE VEHICLE THAT I WAS IN WAS PARKED AT THE INTERSECTION OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY. I EXITED THE VEHICLE AND I WAS APPROACHED BY DETECTIVE -- EXCUSE ME -- BY SERGEANT MARTY COON AND OFFICER RISKE. Q: AND THEY APPROACHED YOU ON FOOT? A: YES, THEY DID. Q: WHERE? A: BEG YOUR PARDON? Q: WHERE WAS THAT THAT THEY APPROACHED YOU? A: THAT WAS RIGHT THERE AT THE INTERSECTION, CLOSE TO THE INTERSECTION OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY. Q: WHAT WAS THE FIRST THING YOU DID WHEN YOU GOT THERE? A: THE FIRST THING I DID WAS TAKE A LOOK AT THE FRONT OF THE CRIME SCENE AREA TO MAKE SURE THAT IT WAS SECURED, AND I SAW THAT A POLICE VEHICLE WAS PARKED AT DOROTHY AND BUNDY. I SAW A POLICE VEHICLE WAS PARKED AT GORHAM AND BUNDY SO AS TO NOT ALLOW ANY TYPE OF VEHICULAR OR PEDESTRIAN TRAFFIC TO COME THROUGH THOSE AREAS. I ASKED SERGEANT MARTY COON IF THE BACK HAD BEEN SECURED AND HE SAID, YES, IT WAS SECURED THE SAME WAY THE FRONT WAS AT THE ALLEYWAY AGAIN AT DOROTHY AND NORTH TO GORHAM. I SAW THAT THE FRONT HAD BEEN ALSO SECURED BY YELLOW POLICE BANNER TAPE AND THAT APPEARED TO BE PROPER TO ME. I ASKED THEM IF THERE WAS ANY IN THE REAR AND HE INDICATED THAT THERE WAS, BLOCKING -- AGAIN, BLOCKING OFF THE THOROUGHFARE OF THE ALLEYWAY. AT THAT POINT I MADE A DETERMINATION THAT THE CRIME SCENE WAS PROPERLY SECURED AND I ASKED SERGEANT COON AND OFFICER RISKE TO ESCORT ME UP TO WHERE THEY HAD INDICATED THAT THE VICTIMS WERE. Q: NOW, IS THAT PART OF YOUR DUTIES, SIR, WHEN YOU RESPOND TO A HOMICIDE SCENE, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CRIME SCENE IS POSSIBLY SECURED, THE TAPE WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE? A: YES, THAT IS MY PRIMARY DUTY. Q: AND IN THAT CONNECTION, SIR, IS IT YOUR DUTY ALSO TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PERIMETER, THAT IS, WHERE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE IS PUT UP, IS IN THE PROPER LOCATION? A: THAT'S CORRECT. Q: WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THAT? A: THE FACT THAT WE ARE ABLE TO KEEP THAT CRIME SCENE AS SECURE AS POSSIBLE UNTIL DETECTIVES GET THERE. Q: IS IT IMPORTANT THAT YOU MAKE SURE THAT ENOUGH -- THAT A CERTAIN AREA AROUND THE CRIME |