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LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1995 8:30 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.) (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL. MR. COCHRAN: GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S GET STARTED ON THIS MATTER. FIRST OF ALL, COUNSEL, I'M GOING TO ASK BOTH SIDES FOR A STIPULATION PURSUANT TO CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE SECTION 134 INDICATING THAT THE COURT MAY, UPON STIPULATION OF THE PARTIES, CONDUCT A SESSION ON A SUNDAY. TECHNICALLY, ACCORDING TO THE CODE, SUNDAYS ARE COURT HOLIDAYS. THE COURT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN SESSION. OBVIOUSLY WE ARE IN SESSION. STIPULATION FROM THE PEOPLE? MR. DARDEN: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: STIPULATION FROM THE DEFENDANT? MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS AN OBJECTION FROM THE BROWN FAMILY REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF MR. SIMPSON ON THE PROPERTY. MR. COCHRAN, YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE? MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR. MR. DARDEN: CAN WE APPROACH ON THAT MATTER? MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, AT NO TIME HAS MR. SIMPSON EVER DESIRED TO GO TO OR BE AT THE BUNDY SCENE. IT'S AS PAINFUL FOR HIM AS IT IS FOR THE BROWN FAMILY. ACCORDINGLY, HE PLANS TO STAY IN THE VEHICLE AT THAT LOCATION. THE COURT: SO HE IS NOT EXERCISING HIS RIGHT OR DEMAND TO ASSERT HIS RIGHT TO SEE THE SAME VIEW AS THE JURY SEES DURING THE COURSE OF THAT WALK THROUGH? MR. COCHRAN: NO, YOUR HONOR. HE'S NOT EXERCISING HIS RIGHT IN THAT REGARD. HIS COUNSEL WILL DO THAT, HOWEVER. MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, WOULD THE COURT TAKE A PERSONAL CONFIRMATION FROM MR. SIMPSON? THE COURT: YES, I WILL. MR. SIMPSON, THIS IS A COURT PROCEEDING THAT WILL BE CONDUCTED IN THE FIELD. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE PRESENT AT ANY TIME WHEN THE JURY IS RECEIVING EVIDENCE. ACTUALLY, VIEWING THE CRIME SCENE OBVIOUSLY IS RECEIPT OF EVIDENCE SINCE THEY WILL BE SEEING LOCATIONS THAT ARE RELEVANT TO THIS CASE. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO WAIVE AND GIVE UP YOUR RIGHT TO BE PRESENT AT THE BUNDY ADDRESS WHILE THE JURY IS CONDUCTING A VIEW OF THE SCENE. THE DEFENDANT: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR. ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, I HAD GIVEN YOU THE ITINERARY PREVIOUSLY OF OUR SCHEDULED VISIT. WE AGREED TO POST SIGNS AT THE RELEVANT LOCATIONS SO THAT THE BAILIFF HIMSELF WILL NOT BE UNDER AN OBLIGATION TO CONDUCT TOURS SO TO SPEAK, SPEAKING TOURS, AND THAT THE BAILIFF'S FUNCTION WILL BE TO MERELY MAKE SURE THAT THE SECURITY IS MAINTAINED OF EACH SCENE. ANY COMMENT AS TO THAT? AND THERE WILL BE A SIGN BOTH FRONT AND BACK, AND MY LAW CLERK, PAUL TYLER, WILL GO THROUGH WITH COUNSEL TO POST THE SIGNS WHEN WE GET THERE. ALL RIGHT. MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, THERE IS ONE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION. THE GREEN CHAIN LINK FENCING THAT IS AROUND ROCKINGHAM, THE JURORS NEED TO BE TOLD AT SOME POINT THAT THAT WAS NOT PRESENT ON JUNE 12TH. AND IF YOU WILL RECALL, IT EXTENDS TO AROUND THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. THE COURT: WE CAN DEAL WITH THAT LATER. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE CAN HANDLE DURING THE COURSE OF THEIR CASE IN CHIEF BECAUSE THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ROCKINGHAM SCENE THE DAY OF THE INCIDENT DO NOT HAVE THAT. THEIR VIEW DOES. YOU CAN ASK THE DETECTIVES WAS THAT THERE AT THE TIME. MS. LEWIS: THE COURT -- THE COURT: I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THE COURT TO INSTRUCT. THAT IS THE POINT I'M MAKING. MS. LEWIS: I WASN'T GOING TO ASK THE COURT TO DO THAT. I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE FOR THE BAILIFF TO BREAK THE CODE OF SILENCE FOR THAT ONE PURPOSE. THE COURT: NO, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE. AND IN ANY EVENT, THAT OUTSIDE AROUND THE ROCKINGHAM PROPERTY IS REALLY INCONSEQUENTIAL BECAUSE NOBODY TALKS ABOUT ANYTHING GOING ON THE LAWN THERE. MS. LEWIS: THE ACCESS TO THE SIDE OF THE WALKWAY OF MR. SIMPSON'S PROPERTY HOWEVER IS GOING TO BE VIEWED AND WHICH DOES HAVE THAT RESTRICTED ACCESS SOMEWHAT. THE COURT: IT'S A NON-ISSUE AT THIS POINT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE TALK WITH THE JURORS? MS. LEWIS: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT? (BRIEF PAUSE.) MS. LEWIS: THERE ARE A FEW THINGS TO RESOLVE I BELIEVE, YOUR HONOR, BASED ON MY MEETING WITH MR. DOUGLAS YESTERDAY OUT AT BOTH SCENES. IT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING WITH REGARD TO THE DEFENDANT'S TROPHY ROOM THAT THE COURT'S ORDER WAS THAT THE JURORS BE TAKEN THROUGH IN A STRAIGHT LINE FROM THE ENTRANCE TO THE FAMILY ROOM, THEY BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN THERE, DO A 360 SO TO SPEAK AND CONTINUE ON, AND THAT WAS THE ONE PERHAPS EXCEPTION TO THE NOTION OR TO THE IDEA THAT THE JURORS ARE ALLOWED TO REMAIN IN ANY ONE LOCATION AS LONG AS THEY WANT BASICALLY. I BELIEVE MR. DOUGLAS' POSITION YESTERDAY WAS THAT HE FELT THEY COULD REMAIN AS LONG AS THEY WANTED. THAT SEEMED TO BE A COMPROMISE RULING ON THE COURT'S PART, AND I WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW STRENUOUSLY WE HAVE OBJECTED AND DID OBJECT IN CHAMBERS I BELIEVE ON FRIDAY TO HAVING THEM VIEW THE DEFENDANT'S TROPHY ROOM AT ALL BECAUSE IT'S A SHRINE TO THE DEFENDANT, IT DOES HAVE OBVIOUS POTENTIAL OF APPEALING TO SYMPATHY AND PITY FOR THE DEFENDANT, WHICH CALIFORNIA LAW SAYS THE JURORS MUST NOT DO IN EVALUATING THE EVIDENCE IN A CASE. SO IT IS OUR POSITION THAT TROPHY ROOM IS HIGHLY PREJUDICIAL TO THE PEOPLE. AND I RESPECT THE COURT'S RULING AND I'M NOT ASKING THE COURT TO RECONSIDER THAT RULING. I JUST NEED A CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE COURT'S RULING, THAT THEY ARE NOT TO LINGER IN THAT AREA. THE COURT: MR. DOUGLAS, YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE? MR. DOUGLAS: YOUR HONOR, THE COURT HAD MADE IT CLEAR THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE TOUR, THE JURORS WILL BE ALLOWED TO WALK AND TO VIEW FOR AS LONG AS THEY FEEL APPROPRIATE. I DID NOT DISCERN -- THE COURT: WITHIN REASON. MR. DOUGLAS: CORRECT. I DID NOT DISCERN ANY DISTINCTION WITH EITHER LOCATION. AND MISS LEWIS SEEMS TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS IN FACT AN UNSPOKEN UNDERSTANDING THAT JURORS SHOULD BE PUSHED THROUGH THE TROPHY ROOM, WHICH I DID NOT GATHER FROM OUR CONVERSATION IN CHAMBERS ON FRIDAY. CERTAINLY, THEY CANNOT LINGER INORDINATELY, BUT I DID NOT THINK THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE ANY SPECIFIC DIRECTION THAT THEY BE HURRIED THROUGH THAT PORTION OF THE TOUR. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. IT WAS THE COURT'S INTENTION IN MAKING THAT RULING THAT THE JURORS WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO DIRECTLY INTO THE TROPHY ROOM. IT WAS MY INTENTION THAT THEY WALK FROM THE KITCHEN DOOR IN A STRAIGHT LINE TO THE FRENCH DOOR WHICH LEADS OUT TO THE POOL AREA SO THAT THEY COULD THEN GO TO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM AND SEE ITS RELATIONSHIP TO ARNELLE SIMPSON'S ROOM. I AM NOT GOING TO PLACE A TIME LIMIT OR REQUIRE THEM TO BE HURRIED ALONG. HOWEVER, THERE'S ONLY THREE RELEVANT THINGS IN THAT ROOM, THE FAMILY ROOM; THE T.V. SETUP, THE BAR SETUP AND THE PROXIMITY TO THE TROPHY ROOM. THEY ARE ENTITLED TO SEE THE TROPHY ROOM SINCE MR. SHIPP DID TESTIFY AS TO THE MAGNETISM OF THAT PARTICULAR ROOM. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO GO DOWN INTO IT. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO TAKE A TOUR OF IT. THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT WILL ALLOW THEM TO STAY THERE A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME. THEY WILL NOT BE FORCED TO MARCH THROUGH. THEY WILL BE ALLOWED TO STOP, DO A 360, LOOK AND SEE WHAT'S THERE. BUT THE BAILIFFS WILL BE UNDER DIRECTIONS FROM THE COURT TO MOVE THEM ALONG AT A REASONABLE PACE AT ALL LOCATIONS, NOT JUST THIS LOCATION. MR. DOUGLAS: YOUR HONOR, IF I MAY. MR. SIMPSON HAS JUST REMINDED ME THAT THERE WAS SOME SUGGESTION IN PERHAPS SOME OF THE COMMENTS OF COUNSEL, PROSECUTION COUNSEL, THAT THE ONLY WAY INTO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM WOULD HAVE BEEN FROM THE OUTSIDE. THE COURT: WE CAN HANDLE THAT BY A DIAGRAM. MR. DOUGLAS: VERY WELL. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, I'M SORRY. I KNOW YOU REALLY WANT TO GET STARTED. THERE ARE A FEW OTHER ISSUES TO RESOLVE, SOME OF THEM RATHER MINOR. EXCUSE ME. AT THE BUNDY LOCATION, THE FIRST BEDROOM UPSTAIRS OF THE CHILDREN'S ROOMS IS JUSTIN'S, AND WE HAD THOUGHT IT WAS REVERSE. THAT LAST ONE IS SIDNEY'S. IN ADDITION, YOUR HONOR, THERE ARE, AS THE COURT I'M SURE NOTED, THROUGHOUT ROCKINGHAM PHOTOGRAPHS NOW, WHICH NOW APPEAR THERE OF SIDNEY AND JUSTIN THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE INCLUDING IN THE MASTER BEDROOM. THERE'S ALSO A LARGE PHOTOGRAPH OF THE DEFENDANT AND PAULA BARBIERI IN ONE OF THE FORAYS. WE HAVE NOT PREVIOUSLY OBJECTED TO THAT, AND I'M GOING TO JUST SUBMIT THAT TO THE COURT'S DISCRETION. I BELIEVE IT'S HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE TO HAVE THESE ITEMS, WHICH AGAIN, WOULD ATTRACT SYMPATHY FOR THE DEFENDANT AND IMPLIEDLY GIVE IMPLIED TESTIMONY IN REGARD TO THAT. OF EVEN GREATER CONCERN TO ME, HOWEVER, IS THAT WITHIN THE GARAGE OF THAT LOCATION IS ALMOST A LIFE-SIZE STATUTE OF MR. SIMPSON IN APPARENT FOOTBALL ATTIRE, WHICH AS OF YESTERDAY WAS PLACED RIGHT IN THE LINE OF THE JURORS TO THE GARAGE DOOR. THE COURT: WE CAN TOSS A SHEET OVER THAT. THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. THAT'S NOT RELEVANT TO WHY WE'RE GOING IN THE GARAGE. MS. LEWIS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. ON THE COURT'S ITINERARY, I THOUGHT THE END OF OUR DISCUSSION IN CHAMBERS ON FRIDAY, WE DISCUSSED THAT THERE WOULD BE A SIGN SAYING ICE CREAM CUP. THE COURT: THAT'S CORRECT. SAYS BANISTER. MS. LEWIS: OKAY. THANK YOU. AND FINALLY, YOUR HONOR, THERE ARE -- MR. COCHRAN: BANISTER WHERE THE ACTUAL CUP WAS FOUND? THE COURT: NO. IT SAYS BANISTER. MS. LEWIS: I BELIEVE MISS DOMINIQUE DUNN IS PRESENT IN COURT. THE COURT: NO. MISS DOMINIQUE BROWN. MS. LEWIS: BROWN. I'M SORRY. MR. DUNN I THINK IS ALSO HERE. THE COURT: HE IS, SEATED NEXT TO HER. MS. LEWIS: PERHAPS MY CONFUSION. MISS BROWN WOULD LIKE TO ACCOMPANY THE D.A. TEAM OUT TO THE SCENE. AND I KNOW THE COURT HAD BEEN CIRCUMSPECT IN THE PEOPLE THAT IT ALLOWED TO GO IN THE MOTORCADE ITSELF. BEFORE THE COURT RULES ON THAT, THERE'S AN ISSUE CERTAINLY OF GREATER INTEREST TO THE PRESS, AND THAT IS THAT THE BROWN FAMILY DOES NOT WANT THE PRESS TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE BUNDY PROPERTY. THE COURT: NO. I'VE INDICATED TO THE PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, HAVING RECEIVED OBJECTIONS FROM BOTH MR. SIMPSON AND FROM THE BROWN FAMILY TO HAVING THE PRESS IN THEIR RESIDENCE THAT THEY WOULD BE KEPT FROM THE PROPERTY. MS. LEWIS: THANK YOU. IS THE COURT WILLING TO LEAVE IT TO THE D.A.'S DISCRETION OR DOES THE COURT WANT TO MAKE AN ORDER WITH REGARD TO DOMINIQUE BROWN ACCOMPANYING THE PROSECUTION TO THE SCENE? THE COURT: LET'S SEE IF THERE'S ANY COMMENT BY THE DEFENSE. I'LL GET TO YOU, MISS FORD. MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: I THINK OUR POSITION IS, THIS IS A MATTER -- THIS IS A COURT SESSION AND I THINK THAT -- AGAIN, WE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANYONE -- ANY FAMILY MEMBER TO ACCOMPANY US ON OUR SIDE. I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE. I THINK MR. SIMPSON HAS NO DESIRE TO GO INTO THE BUNDY LOCATION. I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP THE FAMILIES KEPT OUT OF IT AND THAT WE SHOULD JUST PROCEED. I THINK WE WANT TO BE SENSITIVE ABOUT THAT, BUT I DON'T SEE ANY REASON FOR THAT. I DON'T THINK IT'S APPROPRIATE. THE COURT: I THINK THE BROWN FAMILY THOUGH IS ENTITLED TO HAVE A FAMILY REPRESENTATIVE AT THE BUNDY ADDRESS, PERHAPS NOT THE ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS. SINCE IT IS THEIR PROPERTY, THEY ARE GIVING US THE RIGHT TO ENTER AND VIEW WITH THE JURY, I THINK THEY'RE ENTITLED TO HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE PRESENT. AND IF THAT PERSON IS DOMINIQUE BROWN, I THINK SHE'S ENTITLED TO BE THERE. MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. I THINK MISS LEWIS SAID SOMETHING ABOUT ACCOMPANYING THE A TEAM OR WHATEVER, AND I THINK -- WHATEVER THAT MEANS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE A TEAM IS. MS. LEWIS: I DIDN'T SAY THAT. D.A. TEAM. MR. COCHRAN: I AM SORRY. D.A. TEAM. I THOUGHT SHE SAID A TEAM. THE COURT: WE HAVE A PROBLEM OF LOGISTICS HOWEVER IN THAT IT WILL BE VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR HER, DOMINIQUE BROWN, TO GET INTO AND GET OUT OF OUR CONTAINMENT BECAUSE THE OFFICERS WILL NOT KNOW WHO SHE IS AND WILL NOT KNOW SHE'S AUTHORIZED TO COME INTO THE -- WITHIN THE CONTAINMENT AREA. SO I'M GOING TO DIRECT THAT SHE BE ALLOWED TO ACCOMPANY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS TO THE BUNDY SCENE IN THEIR SEPARATE VAN. HOWEVER, SHE IS TO STAY ON THE VAN WHEN WE GET TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION. MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S FINE. THE COURT: OKAY. ANYTHING ELSE? MR. COCHRAN: NO, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: I HAVE A MOTION HERE FROM -- MS. LEWIS: SORRY, YOUR HONOR. CAN WE HAVE JUST A MOMENT? (BRIEF PAUSE.) MS. LEWIS: YOUR HONOR, I AM SORRY. ONE MORE THING, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THE PEOPLE. THE PEOPLE SENT A LETTER TO THE COURT I THINK IT WAS ON FRIDAY AUTHORED BY MR. HANK GOLDBERG WITH REGARD TO ALLOWING THE PROSECUTION TO PLACE PHOTOGRAPHS AT THE CRIME SCENE, PARTICULARLY THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE TO ENABLE THE JURY TO MAKE A COMPARISON THEN AND THERE OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW THINGS APPEARED IN THE PHOTOS AND HOW THEY APPEARED AT THE CRIME SCENE. THAT'S PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE, AS I'M SURE WAS EVIDENT TO THE COURT WHEN WE WERE OUT THERE, THAT CRIME SCENE, ESPECIALLY THE LITTLE SMALL LOCATION WHERE THE MURDERS THEMSELVES TOOK PLACE, IS MUCH SMALLER THAN IT APPEARS IN THE PHOTOGRAPH; AND FOR THE JURORS TO BE ABLE TO ADEQUATELY MAKE THAT DETERMINATION, IT REALLY IS IMPERATIVE THEY HAVE SOME GUIDANCE WITH REGARD TO THAT AREA. NOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LONG AND VIGOROUSLY IN CHAMBERS AND I WANT TO SUPPLY THE COURT WITH AN ALTERNATIVE PROPOSAL AT THIS TIME. AND THAT IS THAT WE AT LEAST HAVE SIGNS PLACED WHERE THE VICTIMS' BODIES WERE, IF THE COURT IS INCLINED TO DISALLOW PHOTOGRAPHS THEMSELVES, WHICH WE FEEL ARE CRITICAL. BUT AT LEAST TO ALLOW THE JURORS TO HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT INDEED IS WHERE THE MURDERS TOOK PLACE. OTHERWISE, FRANKLY, YOUR HONOR, THEY DON'T HAVE INFORMATION BESIDES THE PHOTOGRAPHS. BUT TO PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE CRIME SCENE IS NOT ALL THAT EASY AND ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE LOCATION WHERE RON GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS DISCOVERED, IT'S NOT ALL THAT CLEAR WHERE THAT IS. AND IN FACT, IF I MAY TAKE THE LIBERTY, WHEN THE COURT FIRST ARRIVED AT THE SCENE, THE COURT ASKED FOR CONFIRMATION, IF THAT WAS INDEED WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND. SO THAT'S A NATURAL -- THE NATURAL FIRST QUESTION OF ANY OF THESE JURORS TO ASK. AND THERE CAN BE NO PREJUDICIAL EFFECT WHATSOEVER TO HAVE SIMPLY THE NAME OF THE PERSON ON A PIECE OF PAPER TO INDICATE WHERE IT WAS THAT THEY WERE FOUND AND IT CAN ONLY HELP IN THE ASCERTAINMENT OF TRUTH AS TO THE EXACT CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE CASE. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN. MR. COCHRAN: ONCE AGAIN, YOUR HONOR, YOU'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT, YOU'VE SPENT TIME, BEEN UP TO THE SCENE. THE PEOPLE NEVER STOP. YOU LET THIS BE ARGUED AND HERE THEY'RE STILL WHINING AND MOANING ASKING AGAIN. THE IDEA AS I UNDERSTOOD IT WAS TO MAKE THE SCENE AS PRISTINE AS POSSIBLE. THESE JURORS ARE VERY INTELLIGENT AS YOU MENTIONED WITH THE DIAGRAM ABOUT THERE'S TWO WAYS TO GET TO KATO KAELIN'S ROOM. THERE WILL BE A LOT OF EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE THAT WILL COME ALONG. WE WILL HAVE DIAGRAMS LATER. WE WILL HAVE ANOTHER JURY VIEW AT SOME POINT. THE COURT: MAYBE. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I KNOW IT'S A LOT OF TROUBLE AND YOU MAY BE HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS. THE COURT: THIRD, FOURTH AND FIFTH THOUGHTS. MR. COCHRAN: WELL, PERHAPS SO, YOUR HONOR. BUT AT ANY RATE, AS YOU MADE THE SCENE, YOU'VE BEEN FAIR TO BOTH SIDES THROUGHOUT THIS ITEM. THE RULES ARE ALREADY SET. CARL DOUGLAS HAS EXPLAINED THE RULES TO US. WE ALL UNDERSTOOD AND ACCEPTED THEM. AT THIS POINT, WE ARE READY TO GO ON THIS LONG SAGA. THEY ALWAYS WANT TO DELAY EVERYTHING. I THINK I WOULD JUST ASK YOU TO KEEP THE RULING THE WAY IT IS AND MOVE ON. WE ARE READY TO PROCEED. THERE'S NO REASON TO CHANGE -- MS. LEWIS: MAY I MAKE ONE FURTHER OBSERVATION SINCE IT WAS OUR MOTION SO TO SPEAK? THE COURT: YOUR OBSERVATION? SURE. MS. LEWIS: THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE IS NOT ONLY PRISTINE, IT'S STERILE. BECAUSE BEING A VACANT HOUSE, THE INTERIOR HAVING BEEN APPARENTLY REPAINTED AND SO FORTH BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS ON THE MARKET, IT IS ABSOLUTELY STERILE. AND WE HAVE THAT STERILE LOCATION IN CONTRAST TO THE DEFENDANT'S HOME AT ROCKINGHAM WHICH HAS THESE VARIOUS SYMPATHY-INDUCING PHOTOGRAPHS THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE AS WELL AS OF COURSE THE TROPHY ROOM WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT. SO THIS ALREADY STERILE AND PRISTINE CRIME SCENE CERTAINLY WOULD NOT BE MADE ANY LESS SO BY HAVING SIMPLY THE NAMES OF THE VICTIMS AND LOCATIONS WHERE THEY WERE FOUND. THE COURT: ISN'T IT EQUALLY AS STUNNING FOR THE JURY TO SEE A COMPLETELY VACANT HOME KNOWING THAT THAT HAD ONCE BEEN THE HOME OF A VIBRANT PERSON AND CHILDREN? I MEAN ISN'T THAT STUNNING AS WELL? MS. LEWIS: WELL, NOT UNLESS YOUR HONOR PUTS NICOLE'S NAME SOMEWHERE IN THE HOUSE AND CHILDREN. THAT HAS A MUCH MORE SUBTLE EFFECT ON A PERSON THAN TO SEE A FULLY, YOU KNOW, EMBELLISHED HOUSE WITH ALL THE PHOTOGRAPHS. THAT'S MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE FOR THAT PURPOSE, FOR GENERATING SYMPATHY THAN THE VACANT BUNDY HOUSE IS. THE COURT: THE COURT'S PURPOSE IN GOING HERE IS TO ALLOW THE JURORS TO SEE THE SCENE AS CLOSE TO REALITY AS IS POSSIBLE WITHOUT ANY INTERPRETATION PUT ON IT BY EITHER PARTY, AND I WILL TRUST THE EXPERTISE AND EXPERIENCE OF TRIAL COUNSEL ON BOTH SIDES TO EXPLAIN TO THE JURY DURING THEIR PRESENTATION OF THE CASE TO MAKE WHATEVER IT IS THEY FEEL NEEDS TO BE MADE CLEAR CLEARER. HOWEVER, I WOULD ASK THAT, MR. GOLDBERG, IF YOU WOULD -- DO YOU HAVE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, DISCUSSED IN CHAMBERS? MR. GOLDBERG: I HAVE SOME OF THEM DONE RIGHT NOW. THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU BRING THEM WITH US TO THE SCENE IN CASE THERE'S AN INTERPRETATION ISSUE THAT ARISES WHILE WE ARE AT THE SCENE. ALL RIGHT. I HAVE A MOTION FROM FRANCIS PIZZULLI REPRESENTING ONE OF THE NEWS HELICOPTER ORGANIZATIONS. ALL RIGHT. NO APPEARANCE. THE MATTER IS OFF CALENDAR. MISS FORD, YOU HAD SOME COMMENT? MS. FORD: YES, YOUR HONOR. I'M FORCED INTO A POSITION OF ACTING AS SOME SORT OF SURROGATE MESSENGER ON YOUR RULING ON WHETHER OR NOT THE MEDIA WILL BE ALLOWED INTO THE BUNDY LOCATION. I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE COURT'S RULING AND I NEED TO UNDERSTAND IN ORDER TO CONVEY OR DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT I NEED TO CONVEY SOME INFORMATION TO OUR COUNSEL. THE COURT: THE BROWN FAMILY, IT IS MY UNDERSTANDING, MISS ALLRED, OBJECTS TO THE NEWS MEDIA BEING ON THE PROPERTY OR IN THE PROPERTY? MS. ALLRED: YES, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: ON OR IN? MS. ALLRED: BOTH. THE COURT: BOTH. MISS FORD, IT IS THE PROPERTY OWNER'S RIGHT. WE ARE GOING TO THE SCENE WITH THE PERMISSION OF BOTH PROPERTY OWNERS, BOTH THE BROWN FAMILY AND THE SIMPSON FAMILY, AND WE CAN ONLY IN EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES CIRCUMVENT THEIR OBJECTION. AND SINCE THEY HAVE OBJECTED, I'M GOING TO HONOR THAT OBJECTION ON BOTH SIDES. MS. FORD: OKAY. IN THE EVENT -- I'M GOING TO SIMPLY CONVEY THAT INFORMATION TO OUR LAWYERS. IN THE EVENT THAT THEY WANT TO ADDRESS THE COURT AND MAKE SOME ASSERTION, WILL WE HAVE SOME TIME TO DO THAT? MAY I BE ALLOWED TO CALL OUR COUNSEL? THE COURT: BE MY GUEST. CALL ANYBODY YOU LIKE. WE WILL BE -- WE ARE IN A COURT SESSION THE ENTIRE TIME WE WILL BE IN THIS PROCEEDING. MS. FORD: SO AT ANY TIME, THEY MIGHT INTERVENE? THE COURT: THEY MIGHT. MS. FORD: I MEAN WILL THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO INTERVENE? THE COURT: IF IT COMES TO MY ATTENTION AND IT'S A LOGICAL PLACE, YES. MS. FORD: OKAY. YES. THE COURT: THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT WE'VE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THE JURY: GOOD MORNING. THE COURT: GLAD TO SEE THAT YOU ALL DRESSED COMFORTABLY. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LET ME TELL YOU THE PURPOSE OF OUR COURT SESSION HERE TODAY. WE ARE GOING TO GO OUT TO FOUR LOCATIONS THAT ARE RELEVANT TO THE FACTS AND ISSUES OF THIS CASE. THE REASON WE ARE DOING THIS ON A SUNDAY IS BECAUSE OF THE DISRUPTION OF TRAFFIC IN THE AREA THAT IS NECESSARY FOR US TO CONDUCT A COURT SESSION OUT IN THE FIELD. WE WILL HAVE TO ACTUALLY BLOCK STREETS TO ALLOW US AND YOU TO HAVE A VIEW OF THESE LOCATIONS WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE, WITH ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCES, AND IT'S EASIEST TO DO THIS ON A SUNDAY BECAUSE OF THE LESSER AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT'S INVOLVED AND THE FEWEST NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT WE WILL HAVE TO INCONVENIENCE. AND PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE INCONVENIENCING A NUMBER OF PEOPLE. SO WE NEED TO GET THROUGH OUR VIEW OF THE SCENES AS EXPEDITIOUSLY AS POSSIBLE. WE ARE GOING TO FOUR LOCATIONS. OUR FIRST STOP WILL BE AT 11663 GORHAM AVENUE. AND THE TESTIMONY SO FAR HAS BEEN THAT THAT IS THE APARTMENT THAT WAS OCCUPIED BY RONALD GOLDMAN IN JUNE OF 1994. OUR PURPOSE IS TO ALLOW YOU TO SEE WHERE IT IS PHYSICALLY, THAT THAT APARTMENT HOUSE IS LOCATED. WE WILL THEN GO TO THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT AT 11750 SAN VICENTE BOULEVARD. AND THE PURPOSE IS SO YOU WILL BE ABLE TO JUDGE THE PROXIMITY OF MR. GOLDMAN'S APARTMENT TO THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT. AT BOTH THE GORHAM ADDRESS, MR. GOLDMAN'S APARTMENT, AND AT THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT, WE WILL STOP THE BUS FOR APPROXIMATELY ONE MINUTE. THAT WILL GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE SITTING ON OPPOSITE BESIDES OF THE BUS TO WALK OVER TO VIEW THE LOCATION. HOWEVER, WE WILL NOT GET OUT OF THE BUS TO LOOK AT THOSE LOCATIONS SINCE THE ISSUE IS WHERE IT'S LOCATED IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE OTHER LOCATIONS IN THE CASE. MERELY TO SHOW YOU THE LOCATION. WE WILL THEN GO FROM THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY. WHEN WE GET TO SOUTH BUNDY, OBVIOUSLY WE WILL HAVE YOU LOOK AT THE EXTERIOR, WHERE THE BODIES WERE FOUND, WHERE SOME OF THE BLOOD EVIDENCE WAS FOUND. WE WILL ALLOW YOU TO GO INTO THE ALLEYWAY THERE UP AND BACK, AND YOU WILL BE ESCORTED BY THE BAILIFFS AND THEY WILL TAKE YOU ALONG THE ITINERARY WE PLANNED ON THE OUTSIDE. WE WILL ALSO HAVE A VIEWING OF THE INTERIOR, THE BASEMENT, MAIN FLOOR, TOP FLOOR OF WHERE THE BEDROOMS ARE SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE FLOOR PLAN THAT'S THERE. FROM THE BUNDY SCENE, WE WILL GO TO THE DEFENDANT'S RESIDENCE ON ROCKINGHAM IN BRENTWOOD. THIS IS TO ALLOW YOU TO VIEW THE RELEVANT AREAS, THE BEDROOM, THE OUTSIDE WALKWAY, ALONG THE FENCE, OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN OR WILL BE TESTIFIED TO DURING THE COURSE OF THIS TRIAL. PLEASE NOTE THAT WE WILL BE IN A FORMAL COURT SESSION THE ENTIRE TIME THAT WE ARE ON THIS TRIP. AND THAT MEANS THAT THERE WILL BE NO TALKING DURING THE COURSE OF THIS TRIP UNLESS I DECIDE TO ADDRESS YOU OR GIVE YOU FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS WHILE WE'RE OUT IN THE FIELD. THERE WILL BE NO QUESTIONS ASKED. NO WITNESSES WILL TESTIFY. YOU WILL BE ASKED NOT TO TOUCH ANYTHING THAT YOU SEE ALONG THE WAY. YOU MAY TAKE YOUR NOTEBOOKS WITH YOU. HOWEVER, YOU WILL RETURN THEM TO THE BAILIFF AT THE CONCLUSION OF OUR COURT SESSION IN THE FIELD. THIS IS GOING TO BE A RATHER LONG DAY. WE WILL BE TAKING PROBABLY MOST OF THE DAY. YOU SHOULD EXPECT SOME DELAY WHEN WE GET TO EACH OF THE LOCATIONS, AND LET ME TELL YOU WHY. WHEN WE GET TO THE BUNDY ADDRESS AND ROCKINGHAM ADDRESS, I NEED TO ACCOMPANY THE ATTORNEYS TO TAKE ONE LAST WALK THROUGH OUR PLANNED TOUR TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALL AGREE AS TO WHAT IT IS WE WILL BE SHOWING TO YOU. SO THAT WILL PROBABLY TAKE US ABOUT 10 OR 15 MINUTES TO DO BEFORE WE ACTUALLY GET STARTED WITH BRINGING YOU OFF THE BUS. WE WILL ALSO, BECAUSE OF THE SMALL AREAS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THIS TOUR, BREAK YOU UP INTO GROUPS OF FOUR AND FIVE THAT I RANDOMLY SELECTED TO TAKE YOU THROUGH. KEEP IN MIND WHEN YOU VIEW EACH OF THESE LOCATIONS THAT WE ARE NOW EIGHT MONTHS TO THE DAY FROM JUNE THE 12TH, 1994 AND OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THAT HAVE OCCURRED GIVING THE PASSAGE OF TIME, AND YOU SHOULD KEEP THAT IN MIND. NOW, I WANT TO WARN YOU OF ONE PARTICULAR THING. I HAVE BEEN ADVISED BY PERSONS ALREADY OUT AT THE SCENES THAT THERE MAY BE SOME ATTEMPT BY PERSONS IN THE PUBLIC TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, TO EXPRESS THEIR OPINIONS TO YOU, TO SOMEHOW TRY TO INFLUENCE YOU ON THIS CASE. WE ARE -- THE COURT IS IN A VERY DIFFICULT POSITION. WE WILL BE IN A FORMAL COURT SESSION. AND OBVIOUSLY IF WE WERE IN THE COURTROOM AND SOMEBODY TRIED TO COMMUNICATE TO YOU EITHER VERBALLY OR BY SIGNS OR BY GESTURES, THAT PERSON WOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE COURTROOM AND I WOULD ADMONISH YOU TO IGNORE WHATEVER IT IS THEY SAID OR DONE. THE PROBLEM IS, WE WILL BE OUT -- LITERALLY OUT IN BRENTWOOD. WE CANNOT INTERFERE WITH INDIVIDUAL PERSONS' RIGHT TO WRITE WHATEVER THEY WANT ON PLACARDS OR BANNERS. IF THEY'RE ON THEIR OWN PROPERTY, OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE ENTITLED TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. A MAN OR WOMAN'S HOUSE IS THEIR CASTLE AND THE COURT CANNOT INTERFERE WITH THAT UNLESS THAT PERSON DELIBERATELY TRIES TO DISRUPT OUR COURT PROCEEDING. I AM ORDERING YOU NOW TO IGNORE ANY ATTEMPT TO COMMUNICATE ANYTHING TO YOU WHILE WE ARE OUT IN THE FIELD. AND I'M SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFICULTY WE HAVE IN DOING THIS. BUT IF YOU SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE BAILIFF AND SO THAT I CAN TAKE WHATEVER REMEDIAL MEASURES ARE APPROPRIATE. AND THEN PLEASE REMEMBER THAT I AM ORDERING YOU AS PART OF OUR STANDARD ADMONITION NOT TO ALLOW ANYBODY TO ATTEMPT TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU AS TO ANY OF THE FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES OF THIS CASE. ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE WILL NOW ADJOURN TO THE TRANSPORTATION BUSES AND WE WILL NEXT SEE YOU AT THE BUNDY LOCATION. ALL RIGHT. MADAM CLERK, WOULD YOU PLEASE SWEAR THE BAILIFF. THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT YOU WILL TAKE CHARGE OF THE JURY AND KEEP THEM TOGETHER, THAT YOU WILL NOT SPEAK TO THEM UPON ANY SUBJECT CONNECTED WITH THIS CASE EXCEPT BY ORDER OF THE COURT, AND YOU WILL RETURN THEM INTO THIS COURT WITHOUT UNNECESSARY DELAY AFTER VIEWING THE PLACE OR PROPERTY, SO HELP YOU GOD? DEPUTY MAGNERA: YES, I WILL. THE COURT: DEPUTY MAGNERA. DEPUTY MAGNERA: JURORS, PLEASE GO BACK IN THE JURY ROOM. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. WE'LL ADJOURN TO OUR ASSIGNED VEHICLES. THANK YOU. LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1995 P.M. SESSION DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.) (JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS TOOK PLACE AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM AVENUE, CITY OF LOS ANGELES:) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: WE'RE AT THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE, 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM AVENUE, CITY OF LOS ANGELES, TO CONDUCT A SCENE VIEW. WE HAVE JUST FINISHED WITH THE ATTORNEYS DOING A WALK THROUGH AND PLACING THE SIGNS ON THE VARIOUS ROOMS POINTING OUT FOR THE JURY THE VARIOUS LOCATIONS. AND, MISS CLARK, YOU HAD SOME OBJECTIONS YOU WANTED TO MAKE? MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. IF THE POINT IS TO HAVE THE JURY SEE THE HOUSE AS IT WAS AT THE RELEVANT TIME, THEN WE ARE NOT GOING TO SEE THAT. ALL OF THE PHOTOS ON THE WALLS HAVE CHANGED. THE PHOTOGRAPH IN THE FOYER OF THE DEFENDANT AND PAULA BARBIERI WAS NOT THERE AT ALL. THE MASTER BATHROOM HAS A LITTLE POSTER FROM THE CHILDREN THAT WAS NOT THERE AT THE TIME. THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE ON HIS BEDROOM NIGHTSTAND WERE NOT THERE AT THE TIME. THERE'S A LARGE FRAMED PICTURE THAT IS NOT A PHOTOGRAPH, A PICTURE THAT WAS NOT THERE AT THE TIME AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRCASE. AND ADDITIONALLY, FIREPLACES BEING LIT -- FIRES BEING LIT IN THE FIREPLACES, WHICH I THOUGHT THE COURT HAD EXPRESSLY INSTRUCTED THE DEFENSE NOT TO DO, I WOULD ASK THOSE BE EXTINGUISHED. THEY'RE NOT REPRESENTATIVE. I WOULD ASK THAT THE PHOTOGRAPHS -- THE CORRECT ONES ARE NOT PRESENT -- THAT THE PHOTOGRAPHS BE REMOVED AND THAT THE POSTER ON THE MASTER BATHROOM DOOR BE REMOVED. MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? (DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.) MS. CLARK: I WOULD LIKE TO ALSO RENEW OUR OBJECTION TO THE TOUR OF THE HOUSE. THERE IS NO RELEVANCE TO IT. THE ONLY RELEVANT INTERIOR PORTION THAT WE WILL HAVE IN TESTIMONY IS KATO'S ROOM, AND THE INTERIOR OF THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE IS IRRELEVANT TO ANY ISSUE IN THIS CASE. THERE WAS NO ISSUE -- THE COURT: SO YOU ARE GOING -- ARE THE PEOPLE BY THAT ARGUMENT NOT GOING TO OFFER THE SOCKS, ARE NOT GOING TO OFFER THE BLOOD DROPS INSIDE THE RESIDENCE? IF YOU ARE WITHDRAWING THAT EVIDENCE, THEN I'LL STRIKE THE SCENE VIEW. MS. CLARK: I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE SOCKS FOUND AT THE FOOT OF THE BED IN THE MASTER BEDROOM NEED TO BE SUPPORTED BY AN ON-SCENE VIEWING BY THE JURY, WHY PHOTOGRAPHS CANNOT ADEQUATELY DEPICT WHAT YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO SHOW. THERE'S ONLY ONE SMALL ASPECT OF TESTIMONY THAT EVEN GOES TO IT. WE HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ACCURATELY DOCUMENT IT. THERE'S NO DISTORTION OF THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS. THERE'S NOTHING THAT THE JURY CAN GAIN IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING THAT TESTIMONY BETTER BY SEEING THAT BEDROOM. THE BEDROOM ITSELF TOTALLY -- THE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE TOTALLY REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT WAS SEEN THERE AND THE POSITION IN WHICH THE SOCKS WERE FOUND IS FULLY REPRESENTED BY PHOTOGRAPHS. THEY GAIN NOTHING BY WALKING INTO THE BEDROOM. THE SAME THING WITH THE DROPS IN THE FOYER. WE HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ACCURATELY DEPICT IT. THE REASON WE NEEDED THE VIEW AT BUNDY, AS THE COURT CAN SEE VERY WELL, IS THE WHOLE AREA IN WHICH RON GOLDMAN WAS FOUND WAS VERY SMALL THAT YOU COULDN'T APPRECIATE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS. THE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE THEREFORE NOT SUFFICIENTLY REPRESENTATIVE OF THE SCENE, UNLIKE HERE. PHOTOGRAPHS THAT THE COURT HAS REFERRED TO ACCURATELY DEPICT EVERYTHING. THERE'S NOTHING TO BE GAINED BY THE JURY GOING INSIDE EXCEPT FOR WHAT THE DEFENSE WANTS TO DO, WHICH IS TWIST THEM TO SEE HOW WONDERFUL THIS DEFENDANT LIVED. THIS IS A SYMPATHY PLAY ON THEIR PART. THAT'S ALL IT IS. THERE'S NO EVIDENTIARY VALUE TO IT, NOTHING THAT THE PHOTOGRAPHS DON'T DEPICT. THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN. I AM CONCERNED WITH SOME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS. MR. COCHRAN: FIRST, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ONE THING. AS TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS, MR. DOUGLAS IS IN CHARGE OF THAT. THE COURT: YOU HAVE TO KEEP YOUR VOICE UP. MR. COCHRAN: I DON'T WANT TO RESPOND TO HER ARGUMENT. I JUST WANT TO SAY, WE JUST CAME FROM BUNDY. WE HAD NO OBJECTIONS. THIS IS PREPOSTEROUS. AS TO THE COURT'S SPECIFIC CONCERN, MR. DOUGLAS WILL RESPOND, AS TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS. THE COURT: MR. DOUGLAS. MR. DOUGLAS: YOUR HONOR, MR. SIMPSON TELLS ME THAT THE POSTER ON THE BATHROOM DOOR HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE. I WAS NOT HERE ON JUNE THE 13TH. SO I AM UNABLE TO ADEQUATELY RESPOND SPECIFICALLY TO WHAT PICTURES WERE UP AND WHERE THEY WERE. I DON'T KNOW FOR A FACT. I THINK THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE JURY BE ABLE TO SEE THE FAMILY ROOM AREA FOR ISSUES THAT WE DEALT WITH ON FRIDAY. CERTAINLY THERE WERE ARGUMENTS AND OBJECTIONS SIMILAR TO THOSE THAT ARE BEING RAISED NOW LODGED AT THAT POINT. THE COURT CONSIDERED BOTH ARGUMENTS OF COUNSEL AND THE COURT RULED THAT THE JURY VIEW WAS APPROPRIATE. I STILL THINK THE JURY VIEW IS APPROPRIATE. IF IN FACT THERE ARE SPECIFIC PICTURES TO WHICH THERE MAY BE SOME OBJECTION, I WILL LEAVE IT TO THE COURT'S DISCRETION. YOU WILL HAVE TO ASK FOR SPECIFIC -- MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I WAS HERE ON THE 13TH AND I KNOW -- MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD NOT ASK MISS CLARK TO TELL YOU ANYTHING. GIGI, THE HOUSEKEEPER, SHE WOULD BE THE ONE TO TELL YOU. I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO YOUR HONOR TALKING TO HER. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I AM ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE FIRE IN THE FIREPLACE. HEY, NICE HOMEY TOUCH, BUT NOT NECESSARY TODAY. MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE NO PROBLEM, YOUR HONOR. THEY CAN BE EXTINGUISHED. MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I REALLY WANT TO RENEW THIS OBJECTION. THE FACT THAT THE JURORS WOULD LIKE TO SEE KATO KAELIN'S ROOM, THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. THERE'S TESTIMONY AS TO THAT. THERE'S AN ISSUE AS TO THAT. THE SOUTH WALKWAY, I THINK THERE ARE ISSUES TO WHAT CAN BE SEEN FROM THERE. THAT CAN BE ADEQUATELY DEPICTED IN PHOTOGRAPHS. BUT TO GO INTO THE DEFENDANT'S HOUSE IS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY. IT HAS NO EVIDENTIARY VALUE TO ANY TESTIMONY THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE TAKING IN THE CASE. THERE IS NOTHING IN CONTENTION. THE DEFENSE IS NOT GOING TO BE TELLING THE JURY WE DIDN'T FIND THE SOCKS IN THE BEDROOM. THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE AN ISSUE. AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS DEPICTED COMPLETELY INSIDE THE HOUSE HAVE NO EVIDENTIARY VALUE IN THIS CASE, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: LET ME ASK THE HOUSEKEEPER. CAN YOU TELL ME WITH SOME ACCURACY WHAT PHOTOGRAPHS HAVE BEEN PLACED IN THE RESIDENCE SINCE MR. SIMPSON'S ARREST? THE HOUSEKEEPER: WHAT PHOTOGRAPH? THE COURT: WHICH PHOTOGRAPHS HAVE BEEN -- WERE PLACED IN THE RESIDENCE AFTER MR. SIMPSON'S ARREST; FOR EXAMPLE, THE ONES BY HIS BED? THE HOUSEKEEPER: THERE'S SOME PICTURE ALREADY ON HIS BED BEFORE, YOU KNOW. THERE IS PICTURE THERE ON HIS BED. THE COURT: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE PICTURES WERE? THE HOUSEKEEPER: JUST ADD HIS MOTHER PICTURE THERE. THE COURT: THAT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT'S BEEN ADDED? THE HOUSEKEEPER: YES. AND HIS MOTHER PICTURE, THE ONE IN THE BACK. THE COURT: OKAY. NO OTHER PICTURES HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THE BEDROOM? THE HOUSEKEEPER: NO. MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, WHY DON'T WE HAVE THE DETECTIVE WHO IS HERE -- MR. COCHRAN: THE HOUSEKEEPER WOULD KNOW. GIGI IS NOT GOING TO MISREPRESENT ANYTHING. MS. CLARK: YOU ARE ASKING HER FOR SPECIFIC MEMORY OF SPECIFIC THINGS SHE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY PAY ATTENTION TO. SHE'S NOT A DETECTIVE. SHE'S A HOUSEKEEPER. THE COURT: OKAY. THANK YOU. MS. CLARK: I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WALLS AS WELL. THE COURT: THANK YOU. I UNDERSTAND THAT. I'M GOING TO DIRECT THAT THE PICTURE OF THE DEFENDANT AND HIS MOTHER BE REMOVED DURING THE COURSE OF THE JURY VIEW. I AM GOING TO DIRECT THAT THE FIRES BE EXTINGUISHED. I'M GOING TO INSTRUCT THE JURORS TO IGNORE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS THAT THEY SEE. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE GET STARTED? MS. CLARK: THE PEOPLE'S OBJECTION STANDS. THE COURT: NOTED. MR. DARDEN: WHAT ABOUT THE STATUTE? THE COURT: THE STATUE IS NOW WHERE IT WAS. IT'S OUT OF THE GARAGE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD ON THE BUS, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: WE'RE ON THE RECORD IN THE BUS WITH THE JURORS AND THE ALTERNATE JURORS. CAN EVERYONE HEAR ME? ALL RIGHT. WHEN WE GO INTO THE RESIDENCE, THERE ARE CERTAIN PHOTOGRAPHS ON WALLS AND PLACES BY THE BEDS AND THINGS. YOU ARE TO DISREGARD, IGNORE ANYTHING YOU SEE IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE. THE REASON FOR THAT IS, WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE THERE. WE DON'T KNOW IF IT ACCURATELY DEPICTS WHAT WAS THERE ON JUNE THE 12TH, AND IT MAY HAVE CONTENT THAT'S COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO THE FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES OF THIS CASE. YOU ARE TO IGNORE ANY OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT YOU SEE IN THE RESIDENCE. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. WE HAVE A FEW LOGISTICAL THINGS WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF. SO UNFORTUNATELY, YOU WILL BE HERE A LITTLE BIT MORE. BUT I HOPE THE LUNCH IS OKAY, THE BUS IS OKAY. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT 360 NORTH ROCKINGHAM AVENUE, LOS ANGELES, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD AT THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE. MISS CLARK, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO MENTION FOR THE RECORD? MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. I WAS INFORMED BY MR. GORDON THAT HE -- DIRECTLY AFTER THE COURT ISSUED ITS ADMONITION NOT TO LOOK AT THE PHOTOGRAPHS AND NOT TO CONSIDER THEM, MR. GORDON ACCOMPANIED A GROUP OF JURORS ON TOUR THROUGH THE HOUSE AND JUROR NUMBER I BELIEVE IT WAS 620 HE INDICATED TO ME STUDIED EACH AND EVERY PHOTOGRAPH VERY CAREFULLY IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE COURT'S ORDERS. I WOULD ASK FOR PERMISSION FROM THE COURT TO HAVE MR. GORDON ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF HIS OBSERVATIONS DIRECTLY IF HE MAY. THE COURT: MR. GORDON. MR. GORDON: JUDGE, I WAS NOTICING BOTH DOWN IN THE FOYER BEFORE GOING UP THE HALLWAY, THE JUROR WAS STUDYING THE PHOTOGRAPHS ON THE WALL AS WE WENT UP AND THEN WITHIN THE MASTER BEDROOM ITSELF. MR. COCHRAN: MAY I INDICATE SOMETHING? I WAS IN THAT GROUP AND I SAW NO. 602 LOOK AT SOME PHOTOGRAPHS TOO. BUT I THOUGHT THE ADMONITION WAS NOT TO PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THEM, TREAT THEM AS THOUGH THEY WEREN'T THERE. I DON'T THINK -- I THOUGHT BY THE COURT'S CURATIVE ADMONITION -- I'M SURE EVERY LAWYER THAT WENT WITH ONE OF THE GROUPS SAW SOME JURORS LOOKING AT THE WALLS. THE QUESTION IS -- THE COURT HAD ALREADY TOLD THEM TO DISREGARD THEM, THAT THEY'RE NOT PART OF THE EVIDENCE. SO THAT'S MY RESPONSE. I SAW 602 SEEMED VERY QUIZZITIVE LOOKING AT PICTURES DOWNSTAIRS AND ON THE WAY UP ON THE WALL. I DIDN'T MAKE A BIG THING OF IT BECAUSE YOU TOLD THEM TO DISREGARD THAT STAFF. MS. CLARK: I THINK THAT WHEN A JUROR MAKES A DELIBERATE EFFORT TO PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION TO AN ITEM THAT THE COURT HAS TOLD THEM TO DISREGARD, IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE A DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE COURT'S ADMONITION. MR. GORDON INFORMED ME HE SEEMED TO STUDY EACH AND EVERY PHOTOGRAPH VERY CAREFULLY. I MEAN RIGHT AFTER HE GOT THE ADMONITION, HE WALKED IN THE FOYER AND IMMEDIATELY STARTED STARING AT THE PICTURES IN THE FOYER, WALKED UPSTAIRS AND STARED AT EACH AND EVERY PICTURE UP THE STAIRS AND IN THE BEDROOM. IT'S ONE THING TO GLANCE BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO MISS. BUT IT'S ANOTHER TO STARE AS MR. GORDON INDICATED HE SAW THIS JUROR, CORRECT? IS THAT CORRECT? MR. GORDON: THAT'S CORRECT. AND THAT'S THE REASON I BROUGHT IT TO MISS CLARK'S ATTENTION. IT WASN'T JUST SOMEONE LOOKING IN PASSING. IT WAS SOMEONE TAKING THE EFFORT TO, BEFORE HE WENT UP THE STAIRS, TO LOOK AT EACH ONE, AND THEN AS WE WENT UP, LOOK AT EACH ONE, AND WITHIN THE BEDROOM, GO AROUND EACH SIDE, EACH END TABLE, STUDY THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WERE ON THE END TABLES. MR. COCHRAN: AS I SAID, I WAS NOT IN THAT GROUP. MR. SHAPIRO WAS. I WENT ON THE FIRST TWO GROUPS, AND I SAW JURORS LOOKING AT THE WALLS BUT DIDN'T -- WAS OF NO MOMENT BECAUSE I WAS ON THE BUS WHEN YOU TOLD THEM TO DISREGARD IT, WHATEVER. LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, WHEN YOU STRIKE SOMETHING, WE ASSUME THEY WILL IN GOOD FAITH. I SEE THIS AS NO MOMENT. THE COURT MADE IT VERY CLEAR. THE COURT: DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY OBSERVATIONS THEY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE? MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING FROM OUR STANDPOINT. I WOULD LIKE TO COMPLIMENT THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT AND THE LAPD AND THE COURT STAFF FOR PUTTING THIS TOGETHER IN RECORD TIME. AND FROM MY STANDPOINT, EVERYTHING WENT VERY SMOOTHLY AND SOMEONE DESERVES A LOT OF CREDIT FOR THAT. I THOUGHT I WOULD SAY THAT FOR THE RECORD. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE? THEN, COUNSEL, IF THERE ARE NO OBJECTIONS, I AM GOING TO TAKE ONE COUNSEL FROM EACH PARTY TO COME ON THE BUS WITH THE COURT REPORTER. I'M GOING TO EXCUSE THE JURORS AND ADMONISH THEM AND ORDER THEM TO RECONVENE ON TUESDAY MORNING. ALL RIGHT. THEN AFTER I ACCOMPLISH THAT, COUNSEL WILL BE EXCUSED AND THE COURT STAFF WILL RETURN TO THE COURTHOUSE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN THE BUS, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:) THE COURT: WE'RE BACK ON THE RECORD WITH THE JURY IN THE BUS. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO EXCUSE THE JURY FOR THE DAY. WE ARE NOT GOING TO GO BACK IN SESSION AT THE COURTHOUSE. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS, CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS ON THE CASE, DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE CASE. SO FAR, THINGS HAVE GONE PRETTY SMOOTHLY ACCORDING TO PUBLIC OPINION. SO FAR, WE'VE BEEN LUCKY, ALTHOUGH WE'RE NOT HOME. SO PLEASE, IF YOU SEE ANYTHING, AGAIN, BRING IT TO THE ATTENTION OF THE BAILIFF. ALSO, YOU WILL HAVE A VISITATION TONIGHT. AS YOU KNOW, MONDAY IS A COURT HOLIDAY. SEE YOU BACK IN SESSION ON TUESDAY. ALL RIGHT. HAVE A NICE WEEKEND. (AT 3:20 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN UNTIL, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1995, 9:00 A.M.) SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, ) REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 1995 VOLUME 86 PAGES 14274 THROUGH 14312, INCLUSIVE APPEARANCES: (SEE PAGE 2)
JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR #4588 APPEARANCES:
FOR THE PEOPLE: GIL GARCETTI, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT L. SHAPIRO, ESQUIRE
JOHNNIE L. COCHRAN, JR., ESQUIRE
GERALD F. UELMEN, ESQUIRE I N D E X INDEX FOR VOLUME 86 PAGES 14274 - 14312 ----------------------------------------------------- DAY DATE SESSION PAGE VOL.
SUNDAY FEBRUARY 12, 1995 A.M. 14274 86 PROCEEDINGS STIPULATION RE CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE 14274 86 SECTION 134 RE SUNDAY SESSION
AT SCENE VIEW OF GORHAM, MEZZALUNA, 14299 86 14274
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