DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER.

MR. DARDEN: CAN WE APPROACH THE SIDE BAR WITHOUT THE REPORTER?

THE COURT: SURE.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL THE PARTIES ARE PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO DISCUSS BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US?

MR. COCHRAN: AT THE END OF THE DAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. HAVE A SEAT. ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

THE COURT: WE ARE ACTUALLY GETTING AN ALMOST TIMELY START THIS MORNING. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR. GOOD MORNING.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

MS. CLARK: THE PEOPLE CALL OFFICER ROBERT RISKE.

THE COURT: WHERE IS MR. RISKE?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: ELEVATOR PROBLEMS, YOUR HONOR. ON HIS WAY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. I'M SORRY.

ROBERT RISKE, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.

THE WITNESS: I DO.

THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.

THE WITNESS: IT IS ROBERT RISKE, R-O-B-E-R-T R-I-S-K-E.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: GOOD MORNING, OFFICER.

A: GOOD MORNING.

Q: CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING?

A: I'M A POLICE OFFICER FOR THE RECORD THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES.

Q: WHERE ARE YOU ASSIGNED, SIR?

A: WEST L.A.

Q: AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO ASSIGNED?

A: I HAVE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER FOR FOUR YEARS AND TEN MONTHS. I HAVE BEEN AT WEST L.A. THREE YEARS AND SIX MONTHS.

Q: AND IN YOUR CAPACITY AS A POLICE OFFICER AT THE WEST L.A. DIVISION WHAT ARE YOUR DUTIES?

A: I'M ASSIGNED TO PATROL. WE RESPOND TO RADIO CALLS, TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT AND CRIME PREVENTION, BASICALLY.

Q: DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOU ARE IN A BLACK AND WHITE CAR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND YOU PATROL THE AREA OF WEST L.A.?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THAT AREA THAT YOU PATROL, DOES THAT ENCOMPASS 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES.

Q: PRIOR TO BECOMING A POLICE OFFICER WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I WAS IN THE NAVY FOR SIX AND A HALF YEARS.

Q: AND THEN DID YOU TRAIN TO BECOME A POLICE OFFICER?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR TRAINING?

A: SIX MONTHS IN THE LOS ANGELES POLICE ACADEMY, DID A YEAR OF PROBATION.

Q: IN THE COURSE OF YOUR TRAINING, SIR, AT THE ACADEMY, WERE YOU TRAINED IN CRIME SCENE PRESERVATION?

A: THEY KIND OF GLOSS OVER IT; THEY DON'T REALLY TRAIN YOU.

Q: DID YOU LEARN IT AT SOME POINT IN YOUR DUTIES?

A: ON-THE-JOB TRAINING.

Q: ON-THE-JOB TRAINING?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: MEANING WHAT?

A: MEANING WHEN YOU ARE ON PROBATION YOU ARE ASSIGNED TO A TRAINING OFFICER. WHEN YOU GO TO A CRIME SCENE THEY TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO AND YOU DO IT; IDENTIFICATION, PRESERVATION OF EVIDENCE, SETTING UP THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: IN THE COURSE OF YOUR DUTIES IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS AND TEN MONTHS, HOW MANY CRIME SCENES HAVE YOU HAD TO PROTECT OR PRESERVE?

A: I WOULD ONLY BE ESTIMATING; TWENTY.

Q: AND HOW MANY OF THOSE INVOLVED HOMICIDES?

A: PROBABLY MORE THAN HALF; FIFTEEN.

Q: NOW, AS OF JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994, YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO PATROL FOR THE WEST L.A. DIVISION?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AT APPROXIMATELY 12:09 A.M. DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL DIRECTING YOU TO THAT GENERAL LOCATION?

A: TO 874 SOUTH BUNDY, YES.

Q: WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF THE CALL THAT SENT YOU TO 874 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: IT CAME OUT AS A BURGLARY SUSPECT AND THE STATEMENTS OF THE CALL SAID IT WAS UNKNOWN PERSON KNOCKING ON THE VICTIM'S DOOR.

Q: AND RINGING THE DOORBELL?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND IN RESPONSE TO THAT PARTICULAR CALL DID YOU GO TO THE LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: TELL US WHAT HAPPENED.

A: AS WE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE WE WERE FLAGGED DOWN BY TWO WITNESSES AND A DOG. THEY DIRECTED US TO 875 AND THEY SAID THERE WAS A DEAD LADY ON THE WALKWAY.

Q: TWO WITNESSES? WERE THEY MEN, WOMEN?

A: IT WAS A MALE AND A FEMALE.

Q: AND THEY HAD A DOG WITH THEM?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: WHAT DID THAT DOG LOOK LIKE?

A: IT WAS WHITE AND PROBABLY TWO AND A HALF THREE FEET TALL.

Q: DID THEY HAVE IT ON A LEASH?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION ON THIS SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 40, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: THAT LOOKS LIKE THE DOG THAT THE WITNESSES HAD.

Q: AND THEY WERE STANDING WHERE IN RELATION TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY WHEN YOU SAW THEM?

A: WHEN WE APPROACHED THEY WERE COMING DOWN A DRIVEWAY OF 868 SOUTH BUNDY.

Q: WAS THAT ON THE SAME SIDE OR THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STREET?

A: IT WAS ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET AS 874.

Q: AS 874?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: IS THAT ACROSS THE STREET FROM 875?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU GOT THERE AND MADE CONTACT WITH THAT COUPLE WITH THE DOG?

A: 12:13 A.M.

Q: AND THEY TOLD YOU THEY HAD SEEN A DEAD WOMAN IN FRONT OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND AFTER THEY TOLD YOU THAT, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: MY PARTNER AND I CROSSED THE STREET AND WENT TO THE WALKWAY AND WHAT I OBSERVED A FEMALE WHITE IN A BLACK DRESS LAYING IN A PUDDLE OF BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY.

MS. CLARK: CAN I HAVE 38.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: CUT THE FEED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: I'M SORRY?

MS. CLARK: CUT THE FEED, PLEASE.

THE COURT: GOT IT.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR, SIR, AND TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES. THAT IS WHAT WE SAW WHEN WE APPROACHED.

Q: NOW, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE DESCRIBE FOR ME, WHEN YOU APPROACHED THAT LOCATION, THAT PARTICULAR WALKWAY, COULD YOU TELL US WHAT WAS THE LIGHTING LIKE THERE?

A: IT WAS VERY DARK.

Q: SO IF YOU WERE NOT SPECIFICALLY LOOKING UP THAT WALKWAY WOULD YOU HAVE SEEN THE BLOOD, THE BODY OR ANYTHING ELSE?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US, SIR?

MR. COCHRAN: EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. I'M SORRY. MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR? I HAVE A QUESTION WITH REGARD TO THE MONITOR, WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE AND WHAT WE SEE UP HERE. MAY WHAT I APPROACH?

THE COURT: SURE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

MR. COCHRAN: SORRY. I MAY HAVE RESOLVED THIS. ON THE MONITOR IT LOOKS A LOT CLEARER AND MORE WELL-LIT AND IT MAY BE BECAUSE THAT IS A PARABOLIC SCENE.

THE COURT: GO STAND OVER BY THE JURY AND SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

MR. COCHRAN: WE CAN DO THAT. THAT MIGHT RESOLVE IT.

THE COURT: YES.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: WHILE WE ARE HERE, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ANOTHER QUESTION. WITH RESPECT TO WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SEE AND NOT TO SEE, WITHOUT IT GETTING INTO AREAS OF SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR, COULDN'T THE OFFICER TESTIFY THAT THE DARKNESS AND THE NATURE OF THE LIGHTING IN THE AREA PRECLUDED HIM FROM SEEING ANYTHING UNTIL HE DIRECTED HIS ATTENTION TO THAT SPECIFIC LOCATION? I DON'T THINK THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: YOU CAN ASK HIM QUESTIONS WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE IT WITHOUT THE AID OF YOUR FLASHLIGHT OR WHATEVER. YOU CAN ASK HIM OTHER QUESTIONS FROM WHICH INFERENCES CAN BE DRAWN, BUT TO ASK HIM CONCLUSIONS BASED ON SPECULATION, THAT IS SOMETHING ELSE.

MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WHILE WE ARE UP HERE, SO WE CAN SAVE SOME TIME AND CUT THESE DOWN, DO YOU WANT TO GET THAT CHART SO WE WON'T WASTE SOME TIME?

MS. CLARK: WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT THE SCREEN.

MR. COCHRAN: WHY DON'T YOU BRING IT AROUND THIS WAY.

THE COURT: LET'S ALL GO LOOK.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. LET'S ALL LOOK.

MS. CLARK: WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SEE?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT COUNSEL ARE GOING OVER TO EXAMINE THE VIEW FROM THE JURY BOX.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: YES. IT IS BECAUSE IT IS LIKE A PARABOLIC SCREEN. FROM THEIR ANGEL THEY CAN SEE IT MUCH BETTER. WHEN WE ARE LOOKING IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS INTENTIONALLY DARK. WE HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT ANYWAY, SO WE CAN SAVE SOME TIME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: OKAY. I BROUGHT AN ADDITIONAL BOARD SO I COULD COVER IT.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: SURE. BY THE WAY, YOU REMEMBER THE VICTIM BOARD. YOU ALREADY LOOKED AT THAT ONE. OKAY. THAT IS GOING TO BE USED FOR A DIFFERENT PURPOSE. REMEMBER?

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. WE SAW THIS.

MS. CLARK: I DIDN'T KNOW WE CHANGED IT.

MR. COCHRAN: YOU CHANGED SOMETHING.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT COUNSEL ARE OBSERVING TWO BOARDS.

MS. CLARK: SO THIS IS THE ONE YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, RIGHT?

MR. COCHRAN: THIS WAS A NEW BOARD FROM YESTERDAY.

MS. CLARK: RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: AND I WAS -- I JUST SAW THIS AND I ASKED IF WE COULD SEE IT BEFORE --

MR. SHAPIRO: EXCUSE ME.

MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS A BRIGHT LIGHT DOWN HERE. EXCUSE ME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: REFLECTION THERE.

THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO SHOW TO IT YOUR CLIENT?

MR. COCHRAN: JUDGE, I JUST HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. I MEAN, THERE IS -- THERE SEEMS TO BE TWO OF EVERYTHING AND WHEN I FIRST SAW THESE, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF THEY ARE GOING TO USE EITHER ONE OF THOSE TWO, IF THEY ARE PROBATIVE, YOU DON'T NEED BOTH OF THEM, AND THE SAME THING WITH MR. GOLDMAN. ONE IS A CLOSE UP SHOT THAN THE OTHER ONE. IT SEEMS TO BE -- HALF OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS SEEMS LIKE THEY OUGHT TO BE ENOUGH. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE PRETTY GRUESOME PICTURES.

THE COURT: WELL, HERE IS THE PROBLEM, THOUGH, MR. COCHRAN: EACH ONE OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW AND ANGLE. FOR EXAMPLE, GOING FROM TOP TO -- TO THE TOP ROW GOING FROM LEFT TO RIGHT --

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

THE COURT: -- THE ONE ON THE FAR LEFT SHOWS THE -- WHAT APPEARS TO BE DOG PAW MARKS IN BLOOD AT THE SIDEWALK WHERE THE WALKWAY COME OUT TO THE SIDEWALK. THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH IN THE CENTER TOP ROW APPEARS TO DEPICT THE LONG PERSPECTIVE. THE THIRD PHOTOGRAPH ON THE TOP ROW APPEARS TO DEPICT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON IN RELATION TO THE STEPS AND THEN THE GATE AND THE FENCE. ON THE BOTTOM ROW ON THE FAR LEFT IT SHOWS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, BUT ALSO HER PROXIMITY TO THE ENVELOPE WHICH CONTAINS THE GLASSES. AND THEN THE MIDDLE PHOTOGRAPH BOTTOM ROW SHOWS THE ENVELOPE AND ITS PROXIMITY TO RONALD GOLDMAN. AND THEN THE SIXTH PHOTOGRAPH BOTTOM ROW ON THE FAR RIGHT SHOWS RONALD GOLDMAN IN A MORE CLOSE-UP NATURE, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S -- EACH ONE OF THESE TELLS US A DIFFERENT STORY, SO THEY ARE NOT CUMULATIVE.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. IN REGARD TO THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, YOUR HONOR, OBVIOUSLY WE WILL CUT THE FEED WHEN WE GET TO THIS POINT?

MS. CLARK: I THINK WE OUGHT TO HAVE THE FEED CUT PERIOD WITH THIS WITNESS BECAUSE THAT IS ALL WE ARE GOING TO BE DOING. HE'S THE FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE.

THE COURT: UH-HUH.

MS. CLARK: IF YOU WANT, YOUR HONOR, I WILL TELL THE COURT WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT, BUT THE FEED DOESN'T NEED TO BE CUT FOR IT, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW.

THE COURT: UH-HUH.

MR. COCHRAN: UNLESS CROSS-EXAMINATION --

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, CAN WE KILL THE PICTURE THAT HAS BEEN UP THERE? IT HAS BEEN UP THERE FOR A REALLY LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

THE COURT: OKAY.

MS. CLARK: SURE. (BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER COMMENT?

MR. COCHRAN: NO. I THINK THAT HE -- YEAH. IF WE ARE GOING TO CUT THE FEED DURING THIS PORTION, I WOULD ALSO LIKE YOU TO DO IT ON CROSS-EXAMINATION, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IF THEY ARE GOING TO GO INTO THIS, I'VE GOT TO CROSS-EXAMINE RISKE ON THE SAME THING.

THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND. ALL RIGHT.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, ARE YOU GOING TO MARK THAT NEXT BOARD?

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO. 43?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SO THERE IS NO MISUNDERSTANDING, MR. CRAWFORD, MR. CRAWFORD, NO VIDEO OF THIS PARTICULAR BOARD DEPICTING THE VICTIM'S BODIES. STILL PHOTOGRAPHERS, NO PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE DISPLAYS OF THE VICTIM'S BODIES. THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: WHEN YOU APPROACHED THIS AREA, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE LIGHTING FOR US, SIR?

A: THERE IS -- THERE IS REALLY NO STREET LIGHTING. THERE IS OVERHANGING TREES OVER THE WALKWAY. THERE WAS LIGHTS ON IN THE RESIDENCE, BUT THERE IS A FENCE THAT GOES IN FRONT OF THE WINDOWS, SO THE LIGHTING WAS POOR.

Q: SO -- I'M SORRY?

A: THE LIGHTING WAS VERY POOR.

Q: AND WAS THERE A LOT OF FOLIAGE, A LOT OF BUSHES AND TREES IN THAT AREA?

A: YES.

Q: SO WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED THE WALKWAY OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY, AS YOU APPROACHED IT, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY GOT THERE AND ACTUALLY LOOKED UP THE WALKWAY?

A: IT ACTUALLY TOOK US A COUPLE SECONDS TO FIND THE BODY, IT WAS SO DARK.

MR. COCHRAN: NONRESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR. THE QUESTION WAS DID HE SEE ANY BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE ANSWER IS STRICKEN.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: FIRST OF ALL, AS YOU APPROACHED THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY STOPPED AND LOOKED UP THE WALKWAY ITSELF?

A: NO.

Q: WERE YOU -- HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT FOR YOU TO SEE THE BODY AS YOU APPROACHED THAT LOCATION?

A: WE -- ACTUALLY WHEN WE FIRST WENT, WE WENT TO THE -- WE WERE LOOKING ON THE GRASS AND THE WITNESSES DIRECTED US TO THE WALKWAY, SO WE DIDN'T SEE IT AT ALL UNTIL WE WERE DIRECTED BY THE WITNESSES.

Q: OKAY. SO UNTIL SOMEBODY ACTUALLY POINTED IT OUT TO YOU, YOU DIDN'T SEE A BODY?

A: RIGHT.

Q: OR BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY?

A: RIGHT.

Q: NOW, DID YOU HAVE A FLASHLIGHT WITH YOU?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU TURN THAT FLASHLIGHT ON?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU TURNED ON YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK AT THE FOOT OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: SO BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY WENT UP THE WALKWAY OR WENT ANYWHERE NEAR THAT SCENE, YOU TURNED ON THE FLASHLIGHT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND CAN YOU SEE ON THE MONITOR, SIR? DO YOU SEE WHERE THAT ARROW IS?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU SEE WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS AS THE ARROW -- MOVE IT DOWN, JOHN. THANKS. IS THE ARROW NOW POINTING TO WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS BEFORE THE WALKWAY BEGINS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU STOP AND TURN ON YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: I WAS ACTUALLY TO THE LEFT OF THE ARROW.

Q: OKAY.

A: RIGHT WHERE THE FOLIAGE IS BY THE SIDEWALK.

MS. CLARK: CAN WE MOVE THE ARROW OVER TO THE LEFT?

THE WITNESS: RIGHT ABOUT THERE.

MS. CLARK: RIGHT THERE? THANK YOU.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU STOOD THERE WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: JUST TURNED THE FLASHLIGHT ON AND SAW THE BODY AND WENT BACK AND WALKED TO THE -- REQUESTED A SUPERVISOR, ADDITIONAL UNITS AND AN AMBULANCE AND THEN WE WENT BACK AND TALKED TO THE WITNESSES.

Q: OKAY. SO AFTER YOU SAW THE BODY, YOU LEFT THE SCENE FOR A MOMENT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID WHAT?

A: WENT BACK AND TALKED TO THE WITNESSES TO FIND OUT HOW THEY FOUND THE BODY AND BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED.

Q: AND BY "THE WITNESSES" YOU MEAN THOSE TWO PEOPLE WITH THE DOG?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID THEY TELL YOU HOW THEY FOUND THE DOG?

A: THEY TOLD ME THAT --

MR. COCHRAN: ANSWER THAT YES OR NO.

THE COURT: CORRECT. DID THEY TELL YOU? YES OR NO?

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND DID THEY TELL YOU HOW THEY HAPPENED TO GET TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU LOOK AT THE DOG?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT IT?

A: THERE WAS BLOOD ON HIS LEGS AND ON HIS PAWS.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE HOW FAR UP THE LEGS THE BLOOD WENT ON THE DOG?

A: I BELIEVE ON THE REAR LEG IT WENT UP APPROXIMATELY TO HIS KNEES, JUST STREAKS.

Q: STREAKS OF IT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: WE WENT BACK TO THE SCENE, WE APPROACHED THE BODY OF THE FEMALE, AND AS WE GOT PROBABLY TWO FEET FROM HER BODY, WE DISCOVERED THE BODY OF A MALE WHITE LAYING AGAINST THE NORTH FENCE.

Q: OKAY. HOW DID YOU -- HOW DID YOU GET UP TO THE WOMAN'S BODY? WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: MY PARTNER APPROACHED ON THE GRASS AND I APPROACHED WALKING THROUGH THE PLANTS RIGHT THERE, STAYING TO --

Q: THESE BUSHES HERE ON THE LEFT, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT. STAYING TO THE LEFT OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: AND YOUR PARTNER, WHERE WAS HE?

A: HE WAS ON THE GRASS TO THE LEFT OF THE FOLIAGE. YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IN THIS PICTURE.

Q: SO YOU WERE IN THE BUSHES AND HE WAS TO THE LEFT OF YOU AS WE FACE THE PHOTOGRAPH?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU STEPPED ON THE WALKWAY?

A: NO.

Q: OFFICER, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THE MONITOR NOW. IS THIS APPROXIMATELY WHERE YOU STARTED WALKING?

A: A LITTLE BIT TO THE RIGHT. RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: OVER THERE, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT ABOUT THERE, (INDICATING). RIGHT ABOUT THERE.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU WALK THROUGH THE BUSHES LIKE THIS, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT.

Q: TELL ME WHEN TO STOP.

A: IT IS REALLY A POOR ANGLE. I CAN'T SEE WHERE I STOPPED. IT WAS BEFORE THE BODY, BEFORE THE FENCE.

Q: OKAY. SO WE ARE GOING TO SAY APPROXIMATELY HERE, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE DRAWN A HORIZONTAL LINE PERPENDICULAR TO THE VERTICAL LINE DEPICTING HIS PATH THROUGH THE BUSHES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: YES. AND YOU ARE DRAWING ON PEOPLE'S 42.

MS. CLARK: YES. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

MR. COCHRAN: IS THIS 43, YOUR HONOR?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN YOU STOOD ON THAT LOCATION, YOU HAD YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: OH, YEAH.

Q: WHAT KIND OF FLASHLIGHT DO YOU HAVE?

A: I HAVE A STREAMLINE, LONG BLACK METAL.

Q: LONG BLACK METAL LIGHT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: IT IS VERY POWERFUL?

A: I THINK IT IS RATED AT 30,000 CANDLE POWER. IT IS POWERFUL.

Q: AT THAT POINT, WHEN YOU STOOPED UP AT THE CLOSER LOCATION, YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER VICTIM?

A: RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS, SIR. THIS WILL BE PEOPLE'S 43, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES, PEOPLE'S 43.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

(PEO'S 43 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPHS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IF YOU COULD, CAN YOU SEE FROM WHERE YOU ARE?

A: YES.

Q: IF YOU NEED TO STEP DOWN, GO AHEAD. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN, FIRST OF ALL, IN THE FIRST PHOTOGRAPH TO MY LEFT AS I FACE IT, UPPER LEFT-HAND PHOTOGRAPH, WHAT DOES THAT DEPICT?

A: THAT IS A SIDEWALK ON THE WEST SIDE OF BUNDY AND THE FOOT OF THE WALKWAY LEADING UP TO 875.

Q: AND DOES THAT DEPICT THE SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH TO THE RIGHT OF THAT?

A: THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH WOULD BE THE VICTIM, THE FEMALE WHITE IN THE BLACK DRESS, LAYING ON THE WALKWAY.

Q: AND YOU COULD SEE THAT -- AT THE FAR -- AT THE VERY REAR OF THE PHOTOGRAPH, UPPER PART OF THE PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THE THIRD ONE?

A: THE THIRD ONE IS THE SAME PICTURE, THE FEMALE WHITE IN THE BLACK DRESS, BUT IT IS JUST CLOSER.

Q: AND NOW THE LOWER LEFT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THE LOWER LEFT IS A PICTURE OF THE FEMALE WHITE IN THE DRESS AND THERE IS AN ENVELOPE ON THE DIRT RIGHT ON THE RIGHT OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: AND THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH IS A -- THE MALE WHITE THAT WE FOUND, ANOTHER PICTURE OF THE ENVELOPE LAYING IN THE DIRT.

Q: THAT ENVELOPE, WAS THAT BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH IS A CLOSER UP PICTURE OF THE MALE WHITE.

Q: NOW, DO THESE ALL DEPICT THE SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED AT 12:13 A.M.

A: YES.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THAT WALKWAY THAT YOU SEE IN BOTH 42 ON THE SCREEN -- OR IS THAT 38? EXCUSE ME. 38 ON THE SCREEN AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN PEOPLE'S 43, DID YOU ILLUMINATE THAT WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU SEE IN THAT WALKWAY?

A: THERE IS A POOL OF BLOOD UNDER THE VICTIM, THE FEMALE WHITE, AND IT FLOWS DOWN TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK.

Q: AND IN THE BLOOD DID YOU SEE ANY KIND OF PATTERNS?

A: UMM, THERE WAS PAW PRINTS TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK AND THERE WAS A HEEL MARK BY THE FENCE CLOSE TO WHERE THE ENVELOPE IS.

Q: OKAY. IF YOU COULD LOOK AT THE MONITOR, SIR, IT MIGHT BE EASIER FOR YOU ON YOUR MONITOR.

A: OKAY.

Q: DO YOU SEE -- CAN YOU TELL US -- DO YOU SEE THE PAW PRINTS YOU JUST DESCRIBED?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS YOU LOOKED UP THE WALKWAY WALKING THROUGH THE BUSHES, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS ON THAT WALKWAY?

A: NOT UNTIL WE GOT RIGHT BY THE BODY. THERE WAS A HEEL PRINT.

Q: BUT DOWN HERE ON THE WALKWAY THAT IS ACTUALLY OUTSIDE THE GATE, DID YOU SEE ANY SHOEPRINTS?

A: NO.

MS. CLARK: NEXT. NEXT.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, IF I CAN CORRECT YOU, WHICH PHOTOGRAPH WERE YOU REFERRING TO PREVIOUSLY?

MS. CLARK: DID WE MARK THAT?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHICH IS OF THE -- APPEARS TO BE OF THE WALKWAY AND THE SIDEWALK, HAS A WESTEC SIGN IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER, THIS IS ONE OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT IS HERE ON THE CHART.

MS. CLARK: YOU KNOW, YOUR HONOR, WHY DON'T WE MARK IT -- IS THAT 43 OR 42?

THE COURT: THIS IS 43. I WOULD SUGGEST WE -- IS THIS THE UPPER TOP LEFT?

MS. CLARK: (NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.)

THE COURT: HOW ABOUT 43-A THROUGH E.

(PEO'S 43-A THRU 43-E FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPHS)

MS. CLARK: E, THANK YOU. SO THIS IS 43-A. NEXT PHOTOGRAPH. NO, BACK UP. 43-B. AND THE NEXT 43-C.

Q: DOES THIS DEPICT -- DOES THIS DEPICT THE WOMAN AS YOU FOUND HER AND THE SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, CAN YOU SEE AN AREA IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHERE YOU WERE STANDING IN ORDER TO SEE THAT?

A: THE -- TO THE LEFT OF THE BODY YOU SEE A CALL BOX ON THE WALL RIGHT THERE.

Q: YES.

A: THERE WAS A GATE THAT WAS OPENED, AND ON THE LEFT BY THE CALL BOX IS ABOUT A ONE-FOOT LONG FENCE. I WAS STANDING RIGHT BY THE FENCE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THE CALL BOX YOU ARE REFERRING TO, IS THAT RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING)?

A: YES.

THE COURT: CAN YOU JUST PUT AN ARROW ON IT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: YOU WERE STANDING BY THAT CALL BOX?

A: RIGHT, AT THE BASE OF THE FENCE.

Q: AND IT IS HARD TO TELL FROM THIS PHOTOGRAPH, BUT FROM THAT LOCATION YOU WERE THEN ALSO ABLE TO SEE A MALE VICTIM?

A: RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. NEXT.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS 43-D, YOUR HONOR.

Q: NOW, IN THIS -- IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH YOU CAN SEE AN ENVELOPE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SCREEN?

A: RIGHT.

Q: UH-HUH. AND THAT WAS LYING BETWEEN THEM?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. ONCE AGAIN, DO YOU SEE THE PAW PRINTS AS YOU SAW THEM THAT NIGHT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED THE SCENE IN THE BLOOD?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. NEXT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT THE ENVELOPE YOU HAVE DESCRIBED?

A: YES, MA'AM.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS WHAT PHOTOGRAPH?

MS. CLARK: THAT WILL BE 43-E. NO, D.

MR. COCHRAN: E.

MS. CLARK: E.

Q: AND THIS IS THE CONDITION IN WHICH YOU FOUND THE PLACEMENT OF EVERYTHING WHEN YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT, SIR. NOW, AS YOU MADE THAT APPROACH YOU WERE MAKING THESE OBSERVATIONS, YOU WERE STANDING IN THE BUSHES THAT WAS NEAR THE CALL BOX YOU SHOWED US?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, YOU SAID THAT YOU SAW A BLOODY SHOEPRINT UP NEAR THE BODY OF THE VICTIMS. CAN YOU SEE THAT IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: NOT REALLY. IT IS KIND OF A BAD PICTURE.

Q: UH-HUH. I THINK WE DO HAVE A BETTER ONE. THE SHOEPRINT THAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING, WAS IT NEAR THE ENVELOPE?

A: RIGHT, JUST -- JUST -- IT WOULD BE WEST OF THE ENVELOPE.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. LET'S GET THE OTHER ONE.

THE WITNESS: I CAN SEE IT IN AN ENLARGEMENT.

MS. CLARK: THERE WE GO.

Q: CAN YOU LOOK AT MONITOR? CAN YOU SEE IT NOW?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US, AS YOU FACE THE SCREEN, IS IT NEAR THE LEFT CORNER OF THE ENVELOPE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

THE COURT: WHICH PHOTOGRAPH IS THIS?

MS. CLARK: AND THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS STILL THE SAME ONE, YOUR HONOR. WE ARE JUST FOCUSING ON IT. IT IS A CLOSE-UP.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 43-E.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: TELL ME IF I AM POINTING TO THE RIGHT LOCATION, SIR.

A: YOU ARE TOO HIGH. RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER YOU MADE THESE OBSERVATIONS, SIR, AND YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE -- AT THAT TIME TELL US WHAT YOU SAW.

A: I SAW THE ENVELOPE THERE, THE HEEL PRINT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE CLOSELY, THERE IS A GLOVE AND WHAT APPEARS TO BE A KNIT CAP UNDER THE PLANT ON THE RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. LET ME GET YOU A BETTER PICTURE OF THAT.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD HAVE HIM PUT AN ARROW WHERE HE SAYS THERE IS A CAP.

MS. CLARK: WE ARE I THINK GOING TO USE A PHOTOGRAPH THAT SHOWS THAT AREA A LITTLE BETTER, YOUR HONOR, OR IF YOU THINK WE SHOULD, WE WILL DO IT ON THIS ONE.

THE COURT: WELL, IT IS NOT APPARENT TO ME.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: UNDER THIS PLANT, SIR?

A: RIGHT. THAT WOULD BE THE GLOVE RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).

Q: THAT WE ARE POINTING TO RIGHT NOW?

A: YES.

Q: YOU SAID THERE WAS A HAT SOMEWHERE?

A: THE VERY LOWER RIGHT CORNER YOU SEE PART OF THE HAT, WHAT APPEARS TO BE A KNIT CAP.

Q: DOWN HERE, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE GOING TO GET A CLOSER PHOTOGRAPH OF THAT LOCATION.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IS THAT THE HAT YOU TOLD US ABOUT, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU SEE ANOTHER BLOODY SHOEPRINT THERE?

A: WHAT APPEARS TO BE A HEEL MARK, YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, WHAT PHOTOGRAPH IS THIS?

MS. CLARK: WE SHOULD MARK THIS, YOUR HONOR, AS PHOTOGRAPH 44.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 44.

(PEO'S 44 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: CAN WE CIRCLE THAT HEEL PRINT.

Q: A THAT IS THE KNIT CAP?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THAT IS THE GLOVE?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THESE THINGS FROM YOUR POSITION IN THE -- STANDING ON THE BUSHES NEAR THE CALL BOX WHEN YOU USED YOUR FLASHLIGHT TO LOOK AT THE LOCATION?

A: I WAS ACTUALLY KNEELING WHEN I SAW ALL THIS.

Q: KNEELING?

A: YES.

Q: THAT PLANT THAT SEEMS TO BE HANGING OVER THE GLOVE AND THE HAT, DID THAT KIND OF BLOCK THEM FROM VIEW, UNLESS YOU USED YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT ELSE DID YOU SEE AT THAT TIME, SIR?

A: UMM, THERE WAS SOMEWHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS GOING UP THE STEPS TOWARDS THE HOUSE.

Q: OKAY. YOU SAW THOSE AND WAS THAT FROM YOUR POSITION STILL IN THE BUSHES AT THE CALL BOX AREA?

A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

Q: AND YOU SAW BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

A: YES.

Q: HOW MANY SETS OF BLOODY SHOEPRINTS DID YOU SEE?

A: JUST ONE SET.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A BOARD, YOUR HONOR, OF -- CONSISTING OF 15 PHOTOGRAPHS. ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 45.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 45, DISPLAY WITH FIFTEEN PHOTOGRAPHS OF ALLEGED SHOEPRINTS.

(PEO'S 45 FOR ID = BOARD W/15 PHOTOGRAPHS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU COULD STEP DOWN, SIR, IF YOU WOULD.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

Q: GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT THAT. ALL RIGHT. TELL US WHAT YOU SEE THERE.

A: THE FIRST PICTURE IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER OR THE UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER WOULD BE THE AREA WHERE THE MALE VICTIM WAS LAYING.

Q: AND THAT -- THAT WOULD BE --

MS. CLARK: THAT WOULD BE, FOR THE RECORD, LET'S MAKE THAT 44-A.

THE COURT: 45.

MS. CLARK: 45-A.

(PEO'S 45-A FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

THE COURT: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU, MISS CLARK, AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE COURT TODAY IF YOU WOULD HAVE SOMEBODY -- ONE OF YOUR CLERKS LABEL EACH ONE OF THESE UNDERNEATH, A THROUGH WHATEVER.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: AS TO BOTH 43 AND 45.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: MAYBE YOU ALSO WANT 40 AS WELL.

THE COURT: THAT WOULD HELP FOR REFERENCE, YES. THANK YOU.

THE WITNESS: CONTINUE?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YES, PLEASE CONTINUE.

A: THE SECOND PICTURE --

Q: B.

(PEO'S 45-B FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: -- WOULD BE OF THE FEMALE VICTIM AND THE STAIRS LEADING TO THE WEST.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, THAT IS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE STANDING AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS LOOKING DOWN?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU SEE A SHOEPRINT IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU POINT IT?

A: RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: AND FOR -- AND 45-C.

(PEO'S 45-C FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: IT IS A PICTURE OF THE STAIRS AND THERE APPEARS TO BE TWO SHOEPRINTS.

Q: THOSE ARE THE SAME STAIRS SHOWN IN 45-B?

A: YES.

Q: YOU POINT OUT THE OTHER SHOEPRINTS, SIR.

A: THERE IS ONE HERE AND ONE HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: NOW, 45-C IT IS ON ITS SIDE, BUT CAN YOU TELL US, IS THAT THE LANDING AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS?

A: THAT IS THE LANDING GOING TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR HEADING WEST.

Q: SO THAT IS THE LANDING AT THE TOP OF THOSE STEPS SHOWN IN B AND C?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU POINT TO ANY SHOEPRINTS THAT YOU SEE IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: AND THAT WOULD BE D.

(PEO'S 45-D FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, E CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LOCATION THAT IS?

(PEO'S 45-E FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: THAT IS THE LANDING. YOU CAN SEE THE FRONT DOOR IS RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING), AND THIS CONTINUES.

Q: DO YOU SEE ANY SHOEPRINTS IN THAT LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU POINT TO THEM, PLEASE. DO YOU WANT TO USE THE POINTER.

A: THERE IS ONE HERE, ONE HERE, ONE HERE AND ONE HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: AND STEPPING BACK TO F.

(PEO'S 45-F FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: THIS IS PAST THE LANDING AND IT IS GOING TOWARDS THE WEST AND THIS IS THE REAR GATE, (INDICATING).

Q: AND IS THAT ANOTHER KIND OF PERSPECTIVE SHOT OF THE -- A LONGER SHOT OF THE WALKWAY AREA THAT IS SHOWN IN E?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU SEE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS THERE?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU POINT TO THEM, PLEASE.

A: HERE, HERE, HERE. THERE IS A FAINT ONE HERE, AND I BELIEVE THERE IS ONE RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).

THE COURT: OFFICER RISKE, CAN YOU KEEP YOUR VOICE UP BECAUSE EVERYBODY IN THE JURY BOX NEEDS TO HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

THE WITNESS: I'M SORRY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: PHOTOGRAPH G, H, I AND J IN THAT ROW, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN THERE?

(PEO'S 45-G THRU 45-J FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: YES.

Q: WHAT IS THAT?

A: IT IS A PICTURES OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE A BLOODY FOOTPRINT.

Q: AND DO THOSE LOOK LIKE THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS YOU SAW THAT NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT -- THOSE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS WERE GOING IN WHAT DIRECTION?

A: TOWARD THE WEST.

Q: WOULD THAT BE TOWARD THE REAR ALLEY BEHIND THE CONDOMINIUM?

A: YES.

Q: AND ON THE BOTTOM ROW AS WELL, SIR, K AND L?

(PEO'S 45-K & 45-L FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: TWO MORE WHAT APPEAR TO BE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS.

Q: AND DO THEY APPEAR THE WAY YOU FOUND THEM WHEN YOU FIRST CAME TO THE SCENE?

A: YES.

Q: THE M, N AND O ON THIS CHART, WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN THERE?

(PEO'S 45-M THRU 45-O FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: THAT IS APPROXIMATELY THE MIDDLE OF THE WALKWAY NORTH OF THE HOUSE. THERE IS SOME STEPS.

Q: DOES THAT WALKWAY AREA HAVE STEPS GOING DOWN AND UP AND DOWN?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO THESE APPEAR TO BE THE STEPS -- ONE OF THE SET OF STEPS GOING DOWN?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU OBSERVE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS ON THOSE STEPS AS WELL?

A: YES.

Q: AND CAN YOU SEE THEM IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS HERE?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU SHOW US?

A: THERE IS ONE HERE, LOOKS LIKE A LITTLE BIT HERE, THERE IS ONE HERE, ONE HERE, ONE HERE AND THERE IS ONE HERE AND THERE IS ONE HERE AND THIS APPEARS TO BE A SHOEPRINT, (INDICATING).

Q: AS WELL? GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE WITNESS STAND.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, AT THIS POINT WOULD IT BE HELPFUL TO HAVE TWO OF YOUR ASSISTANTS MOVE THIS EXHIBIT, BECAUSE SOME OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS THE SHOEPRINTS ARE NOT VISIBLE. PERHAPS IF YOU COULD HAVE THAT EXHIBIT -- MOMENTARILY HAVE TWO OF YOUR ASSISTANTS TAKE IT DOWN TO THE END OF OUR JURY BOX. THEY ARE NODDING BACK THERE BECAUSE THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: JUST TAKE A FEW -- JUST TAKE A PAUSE FOR A MINUTE OR TWO AND LET THEM LOOK AT IT, INCLUDING OUR ALTERNATE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: IT OCCURS TO ME THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT WITH THE OTHER SET AS WELL.

MS. CLARK: WHY DON'T WE --

THE COURT: 1492, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE OTHER --

JUROR 1492: MOST OF IT.

MS. CLARK: LET ME BRING IT DOWN.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, OFFICER THESE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE BEING --

THE COURT: COUNSEL, WHY DON'T YOU LET THEM -- BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THEIR DIVIDED ATTENTION. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU STOOD AT THE -- YOU STOOD AT THE CALL BOX AREA UP ON THE PLANTS AND YOU MADE THESE OBSERVATIONS, SIR? YOU SAW THE HAT, THE GLOVE, THE ENVELOPE, THE SHOEPRINTS.

DID YOU SEE ALL OF THE SHOEPRINTS THAT WE HAVE JUST DESCRIBED GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN THE WALKWAY AT THAT POINT?

A: NO.

Q: WHICH ONES WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE AT THAT POINT?

A: I COULD SEE THE ONES ON THE STEPS AND THE ONES ON THE LANDING LEADING TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR, WHICH WAS OPENED.

Q: THE FRONT DOOR WAS OPENED?

A: YES.

Q: HOW FAR OPENED WAS IT?

A: A LITTLE MORE THAN HALF, I BELIEVE.

Q: NOW, YOU SAW THE WOMAN YOU DESCRIBED IN THE BLACK DRESS LYING AT THE FOOT OF THE STAIRS?

A: RIGHT.

Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE HER POSITION FOR US?

A: SHE WAS LAYING ON HER LEFT SIDE, HER HANDS TO HER CHEST, HER FEET WERE TOGETHER AND UNDERNEATH THE FENCE.

Q: UNDERNEATH THE GATE?

A: UMM --

Q: THE FENCE I MEAN, I'M SORRY?

A: THE FENCE.

Q: DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION, SIR, TO PHOTOGRAPH -- I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO POINT IT OUT TO THE JURY SO THAT THEY CAN SEE IT HERE. 44-C.

THE COURT: I THINK THIS IS 43.

MS. CLARK: 43-C.

Q: IN THE PHOTOGRAPH COULD YOU SHOW US WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? HER LEGS WERE UNDER THE FENCE?

A: UNDER THE FENCE RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: WAS EVERYBODY ABLE TO SEE IT?

Q: AFTER YOU MADE THESE OBSERVATIONS, SIR, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: MY PARTNER AND I, SEEING THAT THE FRONT DOOR WAS OPENED AND THERE WAS A FOOTPRINT -- WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS GOING TOWARD THE FRONT DOOR, WE STEPPED OVER THE FEMALE VICTIM AND WENT TO THE FOOT DOOR AND SAW THE SHOEPRINTS CONTINUE ON DOWN THE WALKWAY. WE LOOKED IN THE HOUSE AND THERE WAS -- APPEARED TO BE NO EVIDENCE OF RANSACKING OR FORCED ENTRY AND I SAW A PHONE PROBABLY FIFTEEN FEET, TWENTY FEET FROM THE FRONT DOOR, AND I ENTERED AND I CALLED THE STATION AND TOLD MY WATCH COMMANDER WHAT WE HAD.

Q: SO WHEN YOU WERE STANDING AT THE -- AT THE CALL BOX IN THE BUSHES, YOU SAW THE SHOEPRINTS LEADING UP TO THE FRONT DOOR. COULD YOU SEE WHETHER THOSE SHOEPRINTS FROM THAT POSITION CONTINUED ON PAST THE FRONT DOOR OR NOT?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHY WAS IT THAT YOU DECIDED TO STEP OVER THE BODY OF THE WOMAN AND GO INSIDE THE CONDO?

A: TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY OTHER VICTIMS IN THE HOUSE OR ANY EVIDENCE IN THE HOUSE.

Q: WHAT ABOUT A POSSIBLE SUSPECT?

A: POSSIBLE SUSPECT.

Q: AT THAT POINT YOU DIDN'T KNOW?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, HOW WAS IT THAT -- WHEN YOU STIPULATED OVER THE BODY OF THE WOMAN, DID YOU STEP IN BLOOD?

A: NO.

Q: HOW DID YOU MANAGE NOT TO DO THAT?

A: BY STAYING TO THE FAR LEFT AGAINST THE FENCE AND UP THE STEPS.

Q: YEAH. IT IS HARD TO SHOW IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT YOU --

A: IT SHOWS ON THIS ONE, (INDICATING).

Q: ON THIS ONE? IF YOU WOULD, SIR, PLEASE SHOW US WHERE THERE IS A CLEAR AREA THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO STEP OVER SO THAT YOU AVOIDED STEPPING IN THE BLOOD. THANK YOU. THAT IS PEOPLE'S 43.

THE COURT: 43.

THE WITNESS: I STAYED IN THE PLANT RIGHT HERE, GOT NEXT TO THE FENCE, STEPPED OVER HER BODY, STAYED AGAINST THE WALL, UP TO THE STEPS TO THE FRONT DOOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WAS THERE ANY BLOOD IN THAT LOCATION AS WE FACE THE PHOTOGRAPH OF 43-C ON THAT LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THE STAIRS?

A: NO.

Q: AND SO WHEN YOU STEPPED OVER HERE ALSO IN 45-B, DOES THAT SHOW PART OF THE CLEAR AREA?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU -- AND WHEN YOU -- BEFORE YOU STEPPED UP THERE, YOU WERE ALREADY ABLE TO SEE THIS BLOODY SHOEPRINT SHOWN IN 45-B WAS THERE?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AFTER YOU WENT INTO THE LOCATION -- FIRST OF ALL, DID YOU LOOK AT THE DOOR?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE OF FORCED ENTRY?

A: I DID NOTICE AND THERE WASN'T.

Q: THERE APPEARED TO BE NO EVIDENCE OF FORCED ENTRY?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS ON THE CARPETING?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THERE HAD BEEN PROPERTY STREWN AROUND OR ANY EVIDENCE OF A STRUGGLE?

A: NO.

Q: DID ANYTHING APPEAR TO BE OUT OF PLACE?

A: NO.

Q: DID DRAWERS APPEAR TO BE OPENED?

A: NO.

Q: DID CUPBOARDS APPEAR TO BE OPENED?

A: NO.

Q: DID CLOTHES APPEAR TO BE STREWN ABOUT?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD DROPS INSIDE THE HOUSE ON THE FLOOR ANYWHERE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AND YOU SAW A TELEPHONE THERE?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND WHAT DID DO YOU WITH THAT PHONE?

A: I CALLED MY WATCH COMMANDER AT THE STATION AND TOLD HIM WE HAD A DOUBLE HOMICIDE ON BUNDY AND I TOLD HIM THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS SOMEHOW INVOLVED.

Q: AND WHY DID YOU THINK THAT?

A: BECAUSE WHEN WE APPROACHED RIGHT BY THE FRONT DOOR YOU COULD SEE A LITHOGRAPH ON THE NORTH WALL OF THE APARTMENT OR THE CONDOMINIUM, AND AS I GOT TO THE PHONE THERE WAS A LETTER, HAD O.J. SIMPSON AS A RETURN ADDRESS, SO I THOUGHT IT WAS HIS WIFE OR HIS GIRLFRIEND.

Q: OKAY. NOW, BY "INVOLVED" DID YOU MEAN AS A SUSPECT?

A: NO, JUST POTENTIAL VICTIM, MAYBE IT IS HIS WIFE, I DIDN'T KNOW.

Q: SO INVOLVED IN THE SENSE THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS MAY BE RELATED TO HIM?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WELL, MY PARTNER AND I EXITED THE APARTMENT, TOOK THE SAME PATH DOWN THROUGH THE PLANTS. I WENT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NORTH FENCE BY MR. GOLDMAN.

Q: HOW DID YOU DO THAT? DID YOU STEP THROUGH THE BLOOD SOMEHOW WHEN YOU DID THAT?

A: NO, I WENT AROUND TO THE NEIGHBOR'S YARD.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT, SIR. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE MONITOR, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD ASK THAT THIS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 46.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 46.

(PEO'S 46 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU -- CAN YOU SHOW US, SIR, THE AREA YOU ARE SPEAKING OF THAT YOU WENT TO IN ORDER TO SEE RON GOLDMAN, THAT IS THE NEIGHBOR'S SIDE OF THE FENCE?

A: THERE IS A BIG TREE WHERE THE ARROW IS AND THERE IS A PATH THAT LEADS BACK TO THE FENCE WHERE RON GOLDMAN WAS LAYING.

Q: IS THAT ARROW SHOWN IN THAT LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: WAS IT DARK IN THAT LOCATION AS WELL?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU USE YOUR FLASHLIGHT, SIR?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: NOW, THESE PHOTOGRAPHS APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN IN DAYLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT MUCH LIGHT?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT AROUND BEHIND RON GOLDMAN'S BODY, WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: THE FIRST THING I SAW WAS A PAGER LAYING TO THE NORTH OF THE FENCE IN THE DIRT.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE ANOTHER SET OF PHOTOGRAPHS.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ASK THAT THIS SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS, YOUR HONOR, BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 47. IT IS A SERIES OF NINE PHOTOGRAPHS, AND I WILL HAVE THEM LABELED A THROUGH --

MR. DOUGLAS: I.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: THANK YOU, MR. DOUGLAS.

(PEO'S 47-A THRU 47-I FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPHS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE THESE, SIR? AND WOULD YOU LIKE TO STEP DOWN AND LOOK AT THEM MORE CLOSELY.

A: I WILL STEP DOWN.

MS. CLARK: GO AHEAD AND ORIENT YOURSELF FOR A MINUTE. YOUR HONOR, IF IT WOULD BE ALL RIGHT WITH THE COURT, WOULD YOU MIND IF WE HAD ONE OF THE LAWYERS HOLD THE BOARD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE JURY SO THEY COULD ALL SEE IT WHILE HE IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE FOUND?

THE COURT: SO LONG AS THE DEFENSE COUNSEL CAN SEE WHAT IS GOING ON.

MS. CLARK: MR. COCHRAN WILL BE AT MY SIDE, I'M SURE.

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL GO OVER THERE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: NEVER MIND, YOUR HONOR. WE HAVE THESE ON LASER. I WILL LET THE OFFICER LOOK AT THESE.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD. HAVE A SEAT.

THE WITNESS: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: THE FEED IS CUT, ISN'T IT, YOUR HONOR? ALL RIGHT. THAT WILL BE 47-A.

THE COURT: 47-A.

MS. CLARK: NEXT. ALL RIGHT. 47-B -- CAN WE MOVE -- 47-C, 47-D, 47-E, F, G, H, I. THESE ARE PRETTY DARK. YOUR HONOR, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO USE THE PHOTOGRAPHS, I THINK.

Q: CAN YOU SEE WHERE THE PAGER IS DEPICTED IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. IF YOU DON'T MIND, IF YOU COULD STEP DOWN WITH THE POINTER AND SHOW THE JURY, BECAUSE IT IS AWFULLY DARK.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS? ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, WHY DON'T YOU WAIT FOR MR. COCHRAN.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT, SIR, IF YOU WOULD --

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: IF YOU WOULD, SIR, CAN YOU POINT WITH THE POINTER TO THE JURY -- I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GET YOU TO STAND BACK BY MR. COCHRAN SO THE REST OF THE JURORS CAN SEE. ALL RIGHT. POINT OUT WHERE THE PAGER WAS FOUND?

A: THIS WOULD BE THE PAGER RIGHT HERE.

MS. CLARK: HE IS POINTING TO 47-A.

THE COURT: THE COURT REPORTER CANNOT HEAR THE WITNESS TESTIFYING AT THIS POINT BECAUSE HE IS TURNED AWAY.

MS. CLARK: KEEP YOUR VOICE UP, SIR.

THE WITNESS: PARDON ME.

MS. CLARK: KEEP YOUR VOICE UP. ALL RIGHT. THE WITNESS HAS POINTED TO PHOTOGRAPH 47-A. CAN YOU POINT THAT OUT ONE MORE TIME, SIR?

A: THIS WOULD BE THE PAGER, (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECALL SEEING KEYS IN THAT AREA --

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: -- AT THAT TIME? DID YOU APPROACH FROM BEHIND THIS GATE HERE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WAS THAT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GATE? I'M SHOWING 47-A.

A: THAT WOULD BE IN THE HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: SO YOU WERE NOT INSIDE THE GATE NEAR MR. GOLDMAN?

A: NO.

Q: GO AHEAD AND TAKE YOUR SEAT, SIR.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO IN THAT LOCATION WHILE YOU WERE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THAT GATE?

A: I APPROACHED MR. GOLDMAN. WHEN I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE, I NOTICED THAT ONE OF HIS EYES WAS OPENED, SO I APPROACHED HIM, I SHINED MY LIGHT TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY MOVEMENT IN HIS PUPIL, AND THERE WAS NONE AND IT REMAINED FIXED AND DILATED AND I TOUCHED HIS EYEBALL WITH MY FINGER TO GET ANY INVOLUNTARY REACTION SUCH AS TWITCHING THE EYELID, MOVEMENT OF THE HEAD, JUST BASICALLY TO VERIFY THAT HE WAS DEAD.

Q: AND YOU FOUND WHAT?

A: THAT HE WAS DEAD.

Q: NOW, THAT PHOTOGRAPH IN 47-A, IS THAT HOW YOU FOUND HIM IN THAT POSITION?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I WENT BACK OUT TO THE STREET AND THE BACK-UP UNIT HAD ARRIVED AND I MET WITH THEM.

Q: NOW, DURING THAT ENTIRE TIME, SIR, DID YOU STEP IN ANY BLOOD IN THE WALKWAY OR AROUND THE VICTIMS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: OR UP ON THE STAIRS OR THE PATHWAY LEADING TO THE FRONT DOOR?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU TOUCH ANY OF THE EVIDENCE?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHY IS THAT?

A: BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: IS THAT DOING WHAT YOU ARE TRAINED TO DO, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: STANDARD TRAINING?

A: YES.

Q: AT THAT POINT --

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE A COURT REPORTER RECESS.

MS. CLARK: SURE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A BRIEF 15-MINUTE RECESS. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU. PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE. DON'T LET ANYBODY TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE CASE. DON'T DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT THE CASE. WE WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE IN FIFTEEN MINUTES. SEE YOU BACK HERE. OFFICER RISKE, YOU CAN STEP DOWN. DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY BUT THE LAWYERS. WE WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE IN FIFTEEN MINUTES. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL BE IN RECESS FOR FIFTEEN.

(RECESS.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT. MR. BAILEY, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO COMMENT ON BEFORE WE GET TO THE JURY?

MR. COCHRAN: NO. I DO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS ONE CHART THAT I JUST WANTED TO CALL THE COURT'S ATTENTION TO THAT I HAVE ONE QUESTION REGARDING, THIS ONE, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THE USE OF THE WORD "TRAIL", I THINK THAT THAT'S CONCLUSIONARY. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH "DROPS," WHATEVER. BUT I THINK "TRAIL" -- I THINK THERE'S NO REAL ISSUE ABOUT THAT. I THINK THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE AND I THINK IT'S CONCLUSIONARY IN FORM, AND I DON'T OBJECT TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS WHICH I'VE SEEN, BUT THE LABEL I THINK IT'S A LITTLE NECESSARY LICENSE. AND I'LL TELL YOUR HONOR THAT THERE WILL BE A LOT OF EVIDENCE WITH REGARD TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S A TRAIL, AND I OBJECT TO THAT.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. THIS WAS SHOWN TO MR. COCHRAN YESTERDAY AND THERE WAS NO OBJECTION LODGED. SECONDLY, IT IS A MATTER OF WHAT WAS OBSERVED AND WHAT WILL BE TESTIFIED TO BY THE WITNESSES, THAT THE BLOOD TRAILED AND IN FACT DID TRAIL. THERE WAS A TAILING EFFECT TO THE BLOOD THAT SHOWED THAT IT TRAILED IN A WESTERLY DIRECTION. AND SO IT'S SIMPLY DESCRIPTIVE OF WHAT THE TESTIMONY WILL BE. THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD IS. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS. COUNSEL CAN ARGUE IT'S NOT, BUT WE HAVE A SERIES OF BLOOD DROPS TO THE LEFT OF THE SERIES OF BLOODY SHOE PRINTS. IT'S A TRAIL OF BLOOD.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S HER CONCLUSION. I'M INDICATING TO THE COURT THERE WILL BE TESTIMONY THAT THAT IS NOT A TRAIL. IT'S -- ALL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THE EVIDENCE.

MS. CLARK: WELL, WHAT IS IT?

MR. COCHRAN: I'M TALKING ABOUT THE LABEL OF THIS EVIDENCE, AND I JUST THINK IT'S INAPPROPRIATE TO CALL IT A BLOOD TRAIL. SO I AM ASKING THE COURT -- WHEN I SAW THIS LAST NIGHT, WE WEREN'T ON THE RECORD OR WHATEVER. SO NOW IS THE TIME. SHE HADN'T PUT IT OUT. NOW IS THE TIME. I'M JUST SAYING WE SHOULD -- IF SHE WANTS TO CALL IT BLOOD AT BUNDY, I HAVE NO OBJECTION. I OBJECT TO THE USE OF THE WORD "TRAIL."

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT'S A MATTER FOR COUNSEL TO ARGUE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT -- BUT THIS IS -- THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S EVIDENCE. THIS IS THE WAY THE WITNESSES CHARACTERIZE WHAT THEY SAW, AND SO IT'S SIMPLY DESCRIPTIVE. THAT'S WHAT THE TESTIMONY IS GOING TO ELICIT. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THESE BOARDS.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT. IT'S A MATTER FOR BOTH COUNSEL TO ARGUE, BUT NOT ANY ARGUMENT ON THIS DOCUMENT.

MS. CLARK: WELL, COUNSEL CAN PUT UP HIS OWN BOARD AND SAY BLOOD DROPS, IT IS NOT A TRAIL. BUT OUR WITNESSES FOUND IT TO BE A TRAIL AND THAT'S WHAT THE TESTIMONY WILL SHOW AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE BOARD.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THE EVIDENCE WILL BE THAT THIS IS 160 FEET UP THAT WAY AND THEY FIND FOUR DROPS OF BLOOD.

MS. CLARK: FIVE.

MR. COCHRAN: FIVE DROPS OF BLOOD. THAT DOES NOT MAKE A TRAIL AMONG MOST REASONABLE EXPERTS. AND THE QUESTION IS, I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE THAT -- AT THIS POINT, I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE UNTIL AT THE END OF THE CASE. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OBJECTION IS NOTED. IT'S OVERRULED. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE, DEPUTY MAGNERA.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL, THAT OFFICER ROBERT RISKE IS ON THE STAND. OFFICER RISKE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I'M JUST GOING TO --

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I BELIEVE WHEN WE LEFT OFF, SIR, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU CONTACTED YOUR SUPERVISOR?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHO WAS THAT?

A: CALLED SERGEANT ROSSI ON THE PHONE.

Q: AND AFTER YOU CALLED SERGEANT ROSSI, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: WE EXITED THE RESIDENCE, WENT DOWN, I CHECKED MR. GOLDMAN AND THEN I WAS LEAVING FROM THERE AND ADDITIONAL UNITS SHOWED UP.

Q: SO AFTER YOU LOOKED -- YOU WENT AROUND THE NEIGHBOR'S SIDE OF THE FENCE, LOOKED IN AT MR. GOLDMAN, THEN YOU BACKED OUT AGAIN AND DID WHAT?

A: ADDITIONAL UNITS SHOWED UP AND I STARTED TELLING THEM WHAT WE HAD.

Q: ADDITIONAL UNIT, MEANING OTHER POLICE OFFICERS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IN A BLACK AND WHITE UNIT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS THAT BASED ON THE CALL YOU PUT OUT?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT YOU HAD FOUND?

A: I STARTED TO EXPLAIN TO THEM, AND THEN SERGEANT MARTY COON SHOWED UP AND I JUST TOLD EVERYBODY AT ONCE.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOUR SERGEANT CAME IN, CAME TO THE SCENE, WHERE WAS EVERYBODY DURING THIS TIME?

A: WE WERE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE STREET BY MY POLICE VEHICLE.

Q: YOU WERE OUT ON BUNDY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IN FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: YOU WERE NOT ON THE SIDEWALK OR ON THE WALKWAY?

A: NO. WE WERE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE STREET BY 874.

Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE STANDING AT THAT LOCATION IN THE STREET, WHAT WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

A: I ADVISED HIM WE HAD A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AND WHAT EVIDENCE WE HAD THAT WAS VISIBLE FROM WHAT WE HAD SEEN AND MY PARTNER WAS SENT TO THE REAR TO SECURE THE REAR. ONE OF THE OFFICERS STARTED TO SET UP CRIME SCENE TAPE AND DETECTIVE WALLY OR OFFICER WALLY AND I WERE DIRECTED TO SEARCH THE HOUSE.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAY "CRIME SCENE TAPE," SHOWING YOU AGAIN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEEN MARKED TODAY AS PEOPLE'S 46, YOU SEE THAT YELLOW TAPE IN THE FOREGROUND?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT CRIME SCENE TAPE AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND WHO PUT THAT UP?

A: I BELIEVE OFFICER ED MC GOWAN.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THAT CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM WALKING THROUGH THE AREA, THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHERE IT EXTENDED TO?

A: THE TAPE IN THE FRONT WENT FROM THE NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH TO THE NEIGHBOR TO THE SOUTH, ENCOMPASSED THE WHOLE THREE HOUSES.

Q: AND TO THE REAR OF THE AREA, WAS THAT SECURED ALSO?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT -- HOW FAR WAS THAT CRIME TAPE EXTENDED IN THE REAR?

A: THE NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH OF THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE TO THE FOOT OF THE ALLEY WHICH WOULD BE DOROTHY.

Q: SHOWING YOU NOW A PHOTOGRAPH THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 39, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN THERE, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT IS THAT?

A: THAT'S THE REAR ALLEY OF THE BUNDY ADDRESS.

Q: AND YOU SEE THE TAPE YOU REFERRED TO EARLIER IDENTIFIED AS CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: IS THAT SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH ALSO?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT'S SHOWN IN THE FOREGROUND THERE, IS THAT CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT THE END OF THE ALLEY?

A: THAT'S THE SOUTH END OF THE ALLEY ON DOROTHY.

Q: DO YOU SEE THE POLICE CAR IN THE BACK TOWARDS THE REAR OF THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND CAN YOU SEE WHERE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE IS IN RELATION TO THAT CAR?

A: YES.

Q: IS THE CAR INSIDE OR OUTSIDE THE TAPE?

A: IT'S OUTSIDE.

Q: OUTSIDE THE TAPE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AGAIN, THAT TAPE IN THE REAR IS TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM WALKING THROUGH?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHO SET UP THE REAR CRIME SCENE TAPE IF YOU KNOW?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: WAS ALL OF THAT TAPE, HOWEVER, SET UP RIGHT AFTER YOU CALLED YOUR SUPERVISOR?

A: IT WAS SET UP WHILE OFFICER WALLY AND I SEARCHED THE HOUSE.

MS. CLARK: AND THIS PHOTOGRAPH FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, THAT'S ON THE SCREEN NOW IS PEOPLE'S 38.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THEN LET'S BACK UP FOR A SECOND, SIR. AFTER THE SERGEANT GOT TO THE SCENE, AT THAT POINT, EVERYBODY IS STANDING OUTSIDE IN THE STREET IN FRONT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: ON BUNDY?

A: RIGHT.

Q: NO ONE IS WALKING UP AROUND THE WALKWAY OR AROUND THE VICTIMS?

A: NO.

Q: AND WERE YOU GIVEN SOME ORDER AT THAT POINT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: TO SEARCH THE HOUSE.

Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

A: LOOK FOR ADDITIONAL VICTIMS, SUSPECT, ANY EVIDENCE THAT MIGHT BE IN THE HOUSE.

Q: AND THE OTHER OFFICERS, WHAT DID THEY DO?

A: OFFICER MC GOWAN PUT UP THE CRIME SCENE TAPE. SERGEANT COON MADE SURE NOBODY WALKED THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE AND MY PARTNER OFFICER TERRAZAS WENT TO THE BACK, SECURED TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION.

Q: THAT SERGEANT COON, IS HE ANY RELATION TO ANOTHER ONE?

A: NO. NOT THAT I KNOW OF.

Q: AND SO WHAT DID YOU DO AT THAT POINT?

A: OFFICER WALLY AND I APPROACHED THE RESIDENCE THROUGH THE GRASS, WENT UP THE PATH, UP THE STEPS AND INTO THE HOUSE.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU DID THAT, DID YOU WALK THROUGH THE BUSHES AGAIN?

A: YES.

Q: NOT ON THAT WALKWAY THAT HAD THE BLOOD ON IT?

A: NO. WE USED THE SAME ROUTE I USED BEFORE.

Q: AND YOU AVOIDED STEPPING IN THE BLOOD?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: DID THE OFFICERS THAT WENT WITH YOU DO THE SAME?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WENT INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: ONCE AGAIN, SIR, WHEN YOU WENT INTO THE HOUSE, DID YOU NOTICE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: OR RANSACKING?

A: NO.

Q: OR EVIDENCE OF A STRUGGLE?

A: NO.

Q: OR FORCED ENTRY?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: WE FIRST SEARCHED THE GROUND LEVEL OF THE RESIDENCE FROM THE EXTREME EAST SIDE ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR, WHICH WOULD BE THE WEST, AND THERE'S SOME STAIRS THAT LEAD DOWN TO A GARAGE. WE WENT DOWN THE STAIRS. WE SAW A CUP OF ICE CREAM SITTING ON A BANISTER OF THE STAIRWAY.

Q: WAS THAT INSIDE THE HOUSE, SIR?

A: INSIDE THE HOUSE RIGHT BY THE GARAGE.

Q: IS THERE A DOOR THAT LEADS FROM THE HOUSE, INSIDE THE HOUSE TO THE GARAGE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WERE THERE -- ARE THERE STAIRS THAT LEAD TO THAT DOOR?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE ICE CREAM, WAS THAT AT THE TOP OR THE BOTTOM OF THOSE STAIRS?

A: TO THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS ON THE BANISTER.

Q: BUT INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SEE OTHER THAN THAT?

A: WE OPENED THE DOOR, SEARCHED THE GARAGE. THERE WAS NOTHING IN THERE. WHEN WE WENT BACK UPSTAIRS, WENT TO THE SECOND LEVEL OF THE HOUSE, WE OBSERVED TWO CHILDREN SLEEPING IN THEIR BEDS AND THERE WAS NO OTHER EVIDENCE IN THE HOUSE.

Q: DID YOU LOOK IN THE MASTER BEDROOM?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THE MASTER BEDROOM LIT?

A: I BELIEVE IT HAD A TABLE LAMP ON, YES.

Q: WAS THERE A TELEVISION IN THE ROOM?

A: YES, THERE WAS.

Q: WAS IT ON?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE BED, WHAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THE BED?

A: IT'S -- THE COVERS WERE JUST PILED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BED.

Q: THE COVERS WERE RUMPLED?

A: YES.

Q: WERE THERE ANY OTHER LIGHTS ON UPSTAIRS?

A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS A LIGHT IN THE MAIN HALLWAY AND THE WORKOUT ROOM I THINK WAS LIGHTED.

Q: OKAY. THERE'S A WORKOUT ROOM?

A: JUST EAST OF THE MASTER BEDROOM, THERE'S LIKE A BALCONY THAT OVERLOOKS THE LIVING ROOM AND THERE'S SOME WORKOUT EQUIPMENT IN THERE.

Q: AND WAS THAT LIT?

A: I BELIEVE THE LIGHT WAS ON IN THERE, YES.

Q: AND THE BATHROOM, IN WHAT CONDITION WAS THE BATHROOM NEAR THE MASTER BEDROOM?

A: THE LIGHTS WERE OFF, BUT THERE WERE CANDLES LIT. THE TUB WAS FULL OF WATER.

Q: LIKE SOMEONE WAS GETTING READY TO TAKE A BATH?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THE CHILDREN, WERE THEY ASLEEP IN THEIR ROOMS?

A: YES.

Q: ONE CHILD IN EACH ROOM?

A: YES.

Q: SO WERE THEIR ROOMS DARK?

A: YES, THEY WERE.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANY EVIDENCE OF BLOOD DROPS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: ANYWHERE UPSTAIRS?

A: NO.

Q: ANY EVIDENCE OF A STRUGGLE?

A: NO.

Q: ANY EVIDENCE OF RANSACKING?

A: NO.

Q: DRAWERS PULLED OUT?

A: NO.

Q: CLOSETS OPEN?

A: NO.

Q: CLOTHING THROWN AROUND?

A: NO.

Q: JEWELRY THROWN AROUND?

A: NO.

Q: ANYTHING LOOK OUT OF PLACE UP THERE?

A: NOT THAT I COULD SEE, NO.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I WENT DOWN TO THE FRONT LANDING, ADVISED MY SUPERVISOR THAT WE HAD TWO CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE AND WE HAD TO TAKE THEM OUT THE BACK.

Q: SO YOU WENT BACK DOWNSTAIRS TO THE FRONT DOOR AREA?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: THE DOOR IS STILL STANDING OPEN AS YOU FOUND IT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WERE THERE ANY CANDLES LIT ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE HOUSE?

A: NOT THAT I RECALL.

Q: DID YOU WRITE A REPORT IN THIS MATTER, SIR?

A: A BRIEF STATEMENT.

Q: VERY BRIEF?

A: YEAH. VERY BRIEF STATEMENT.

Q: DO YOU HAPPEN TO RECALL AT THIS TIME THE CONDITION OF THE ICE CREAM THAT YOU SAW IN THE CUP IN -- JUST INSIDE THE DOOR IN THE HOUSE ON THE BANISTER? EXCUSE ME.

A: IT APPEARED TO BE MELTED.

Q: SO WHEN YOU WENT OUT ON THE LANDING, WHO WAS IT YOU MADE CONTACT WITH?

A: SERGEANT COON.

Q: AND YOU TOLD HIM ABOUT THE CHILDREN INSIDE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM TO DO ABOUT THAT?

A: I JUST TOLD HIM WE HAD TWO CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE AND WE WERE GOING TO TAKE THEM OUT THE BACK.

Q: AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I WALKED THE WALKWAY THAT LEADS TO THE REAR GATE, I MET WITH MY PARTNER, TOLD HIM WE HAD TWO KIDS, WE WERE GOING TO OPEN THE GARAGE DOOR AND BRING THEM OUT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU TOOK THAT WALKWAY TOWARDS THE REAR AREA OF THE CONDOMINIUM BACK TO WHERE THE REAR DRIVEWAY IS?

A: YES, IT WAS.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE ANOTHER SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS I WOULD ASK BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 48. YES?

THE CLERK: YES. 48.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 48.

(PEO'S 48 FOR ID = SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS)

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO -- YOUR HONOR, IF I MIGHT HAVE MR. ESCOBAR HOLD THIS IN THE CENTER OF THE JURY.

THE COURT: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OFFICER, WOULD YOU LIKE TO STEP DOWN AND TAKE THE POINTER WITH YOU? ALL RIGHT. NOW, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU WALKED THIS PATH THAT GOES TOWARDS, FROM THE FRONT DOOR TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ON THAT WALKWAY AS YOU PROCEEDED DOWN IT?

A: I CONTINUED TO SEE WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS AND DROPS OF BLOOD.

Q: NOW, WERE YOU USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: IS IT DARK IN THAT LOCATION?

A: YES.

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME MS. CLARK. COULD YOU HAVE MR. RISKE KEEP HIS VOICE UP?

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: TALK LOUDER.

A: ALL RIGHT.

Q: DO YOU -- DID YOU -- HOW DID YOU AVOID STEPPING ON THOSE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OR ON THOSE BLOOD DROPS?

A: I USED MY FLASHLIGHT, ILLUMINATED THE WALKWAY AND STAYED AGAINST THE WALL LEADING BACK TO THE BACK.

Q: SO BEFORE YOU STEPPED, YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE WHERE YOU WERE STEPPING WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU AVOIDED THOSE BLOODY --

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU AVOIDED THOSE BLOODY AREAS?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU -- IF YOU CAN -- ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE THESE, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: SHOWING YOU THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT WILL BE LABELED AS A, 48-A, DO YOU SEE THESE MARKERS HERE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: OKAY. AND DO YOU SEE THOSE MARKERS CLOSER UP IN B AND C?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHAT ARE THOSE?

A: THOSE ARE EVIDENCE TAGS.

Q: AND THE DROPS THAT APPEAR NEXT TO THEM?

A: THEY APPEAR TO BE DROPS OF BLOOD.

Q: AS YOU SAW THEM THAT NIGHT, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN C AND D?

A: THEY'RE ALSO EVIDENCE TAGS AND DROPS OF BLOOD.

Q: SO D IS A BLOWUP OF THE DROPS SHOWN IN PERSPECTIVE ON THE STAIRS IN D?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN F AND G?

A: THIS IS THE REAR WALKWAY GOING TO THE DRIVEWAY. THERE'S AN EVIDENCE TAG ON THAT ALSO.

Q: AND IN -- AND G, IS THAT A CLOSEUP OF THE EVIDENCE TAG SHOWN IN F?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: NOW, THAT GATE THAT'S SHOWN IN F, IS THAT THE REAR GATE THAT ACTUALLY OPENS ONTO THE REAR DRIVEWAY IN THE BACK ALLEY?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AND H DOWN HERE, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN THERE?

A: THAT'S THE REAR DRIVEWAY.

MS. CLARK: CAN EVERYBODY SEE?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU SEE THE EVIDENCE TAGS SHOWN IN H?

A: YES, I CAN.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND CAN YOU SEE THE CLOSEUP OF THOSE TAGS IN I AND IN K?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU WENT OUT TOWARDS THE -- OUT THROUGH THE REAR GATE, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY OTHER BLOOD DROPS?

A: I MET WITH MY PARTNER AT THE REAR GATE AND --

MR. COCHRAN: MOVE TO STRIKE AS NONRESPONSIVE.

THE WITNESS: YES, I DID.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND HOW DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE THOSE?

A: MY PARTNER DIRECTED MY ATTENTION TO THEM.

Q: AND HOW DID HE DO THAT?

A: HE JUST TOLD ME HE SAW BLOOD ON THE GATE AND ON THE DRIVEWAY AND HE SHOWED ME WHERE THEY WERE WITH HIS FLASHLIGHT.

Q: SHONE HIS LIGHT ON THEM?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WAS HE STAYING AWAY FROM THEM?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN HE TOLD YOU THAT, THAT WAS SO YOU WOULD STAY AWAY FROM THEM TOO?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THAT. CALLS FOR CONCLUSION, SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: "MY PARTNER TOLD ME."

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN HE TOLD YOU THAT, DID YOU STAY AWAY FROM THOSE BLOOD DROPS?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND ARE THESE -- CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER THE BLOOD DROPS SHOWN IN I ARE THE BLOOD DROPS IN THE REAR DRIVEWAY THAT WERE POINTED OUT TO YOU BY YOUR PARTNER WITH HIS FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES, THEY ARE.

Q: DID YOU ALSO -- DID YOUR PARTNER POINT OUT ANY OTHER ITEM OF EVIDENCE NEAR THAT BLOOD DROP IN THE REAR DRIVEWAY?

A: THERE WAS SOME CHANGE BY THE JEEP.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAY CHANGE, DO YOU SEE THAT DEPICTED IN ONE OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: IS THAT IN K AT THE VERY END?

A: YES.

Q: AND NOW, THE TWO EVIDENCE MARKERS THAT YOU SEE IN J OR BETTER ACTUALLY OVER HERE IN H, DO THOSE SHOW THE RELATIVE LOCATIONS OF THE BLOOD DROP AND THE CHANGE?

A: YES, THEY DO.

Q: AND IS THAT AS YOU FOUND IT ON THAT NIGHT, SIR?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: THANK YOU. NOW, THE BLOOD DROPS THAT YOU SAW GOING DOWN THE WALKWAY, WHERE IN RELATION TO THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED DID YOU SEE THEM?

A: I BELIEVE THEY WERE TO THE LEFT OF THE SHOEPRINTS.

Q: AND AT THE REAR GATE THAT YOU POINTED OUT TO US THAT'S NOW SHOWN IN PHOTOGRAPH F, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT -- ON THAT REAR GATE?

A: THERE'S BLOOD AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS ON THE GATE, THAT WOULD APPEAR TO BE BLOOD.

Q: AND DID YOUR PARTNER POINT OUT ANY OTHER BLOOD WITH RESPECT TO THAT REAR GATE?

A: HE POINTED OUT BLOOD ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE GATE ON THE BACK.

Q: AND WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THAT?

A: YES, I WAS.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE, WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN THAT WALKWAY FOR THE FIRST TIME TOWARDS THE REAR IN A WESTERLY DIRECTION, WHEN YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE, WAS IT LOCKED?

A: NO, IT WASN'T.

Q: TELL US WHAT CONDITION IT WAS IN.

A: I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS BROKEN OR THE LATCH WAS STUCK OPEN. I JUST PUSHED ON THE GATE WITH MY FLASHLIGHT AND IT OPENED.

Q: YOU PUSHED IT WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND IT OPENED BY ITSELF?

A: YES.

Q: YOU DIDN'T TOUCH IT WITH YOUR HAND?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: NOW, YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT A JEEP?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU GOT OUT TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION TO THE REAR DRIVEWAY, YOU SAW -- YOU MENTIONED YOU SAW THE DROPS OF BLOOD AND THE CHANGE. DID YOU ALSO -- YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT YOU SAW A JEEP?

A: RIGHT.

Q: CAN YOU SEE THAT JEEP IN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS 37?

THE COURT: YOUR EXHIBIT, MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: I KNOW.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 39.

MS. CLARK: 39.

THE WITNESS: YES, I CAN.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IS THAT THE JEEP AS YOU FOUND IT THAT DAY, THAT NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AT THE TIME THAT YOU FOUND THE JEEP, SIR, WAS THE GARAGE DOOR OPEN OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS CLOSED.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT OUT THE REAR GATE FOR THE FIRST TIME, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT JEEP?

A: I DIDN'T REALLY EXAMINE THE JEEP THE FIRST TIME.

Q: DID YOU COME BACK TO IT AT SOME LATER POINT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHEN WAS THAT?

A: AFTER THE CHILDREN WERE OUT OF THE HOUSE.

Q: WHEN YOU -- AFTER YOU EXITED THE REAR GATE, YOU SAW -- YOUR PARTNER POINTED OUT THE BLOOD, YOU SAW THE BLOOD ON THE GATE, ET CETERA, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

MR. COCHRAN: SUMMARIZING THE TESTIMONY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I TOLD THEM WE WERE GOING TO OPEN THE REAR GARAGE DOOR AND I ASKED THEM IF THERE WAS ANYTHING -- IF WE OPENED THE DOOR, IF IT WOULD DISTURB ANY EVIDENCE, AND HE SAID NO.

Q: AND DID YOU THEN OPEN THE REAR GARAGE DOOR?

A: I WENT BACK IN THE HOUSE AND WOKE UP THE CHILDREN AND GOT THEM DRESSED AND THE GIRL OPENED THE GARAGE DOOR FOR US.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAY YOU WENT BACK INTO THE HOUSE, WHAT ROUTE DID YOU TAKE?

A: THE WALKWAY BACK TO THE FRONT DOOR AND THEN INTO THE FRONT DOOR.

Q: AND AGAIN, AS YOU WALKED DOWN THAT WALKWAY, WERE YOU USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: DID YOU STEP IN THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: OR THE BLOOD DROPS?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOU WENT BACK INTO THE HOUSE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: GOT THE CHILDREN DRESSED?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU TOOK THEM OUT, WHAT DIRECTION, WHAT ROUTE DID YOU TAKE?

A: WENT DOWN THE STAIRS, THROUGH THE GARAGE, WENT THROUGH THE INSIDE OF THE GARAGE, HAD THE GIRL OPEN THE GARAGE DOOR, THEN WE WENT PAST THE FERRARI AND OUT ON THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: SO THEY WENT OUT THROUGH THE BACK?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS A POLICE UNIT THERE?

A: THERE WAS A UNIT JUST THE END OF THE ALLEY ON DOROTHY.

Q: AND YOU TOOK THEM OUT TO THAT UNIT?

A: YES.

Q: THEY WERE THEN TAKEN WHAT, TO THE WEST L.A. STATION?

A: TO WEST L.A.

Q: AT THAT POINT, DID ANYONE KNOW WHO THEIR PARENTS WERE OR WHERE THEY COULD BE FOUND?

A: WE KNEW THEIR FATHER WAS O.J. SIMPSON, BUT I DIDN'T ASK HER WHERE HE WAS.

Q: HAD THAT BEEN VERIFIED FOR A FACT AT THAT POINT, THAT THEIR FATHER WAS MR. SIMPSON?

A: NO. NOT UNTIL I ASKED HER.

Q: YOU ASKED THE LITTLE GIRL?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: SIDNEY?

A: YES.

Q: AND SHE TOLD YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER THE CHILDREN WERE TAKEN FROM THE SCENE, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I WENT BACK TO THE DRIVEWAY AND I TALKED TO MY PARTNER AND I SAW THE JEEP AGAIN. HE SHOWED ME THE JEEP.

Q: AND WHAT ABOUT THAT JEEP WAS UNUSUAL?

A: THE FRONT PASSENGER DOOR WAS SLIGHTLY AJAR.

Q: AND IS THAT THE JEEP THAT'S SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 39?

A: YES.

Q: THE PASSENGER DOOR IN FRONT -- IS IT A FOUR-DOOR VEHICLE OR TWO-DOOR IF YOU KNOW?

A: I THINK IT'S A FOUR, BUT I'M NOT SURE. I DON'T RECALL.

Q: BUT IT WAS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WAS IT STANDING OPEN?

A: NO. IT WAS CLOSED, BUT IT WASN'T CLOSED ALL THE WAY.

Q: WAS THE INTERIOR LIGHT ON?

A: I REALLY DON'T RECALL.

Q: AFTER YOU NOTICED THAT THE PASSENGER DOOR WAS CRACKED ON THE JEEP, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WE JUST MADE SURE THAT -- MY PARTNER AND SERGEANT ROSSI WHEN HE SHOWED UP, WE SHOWED IT TO HIM, MADE SURE EVERYBODY STAYED AWAY FROM IT.

Q: STAYED AWAY FROM THE JEEP?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WHY?

A: BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT ANYBODY TO TOUCH THE CAR, GET FINGERPRINTS ON IT, DISTURB ANY EVIDENCE.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?

A: I WENT UP TO THE FRONT AND I VERIFIED THAT THE CRIME SCENE WAS SET UP. I TALKED TO SERGEANT COON, TOLD HIM WE HAD THE CHILDREN OUT OF THE HOUSE AND I CAME BACK TO THE REAR AND I WALKED THE ALLEY FROM DOROTHY TO GORHAM LOOKING AT TRASH CANS, LOOKING FOR ANY EVIDENCE.

Q: NOW, WAS THERE SOMEONE GUARDING THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION AND THE REAR OF THE LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHO WAS THAT?

A: SERGEANT COON WAS IN THE FRONT AND I BELIEVE HE HAD AN OFFICER SANCHEZ WITH HIM, ANOTHER UNIT HAD ARRIVED, AND IN THE REAR WAS MY PARTNER, OFFICER TERRAZAS.

Q: AND WHEN I SAY GUARDING THE LOCATION IN THE FRONT AND THE REAR, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THAT?

A: YOU POST SOMEBODY AT THE CRIME SCENE TO MAKE SURE NOBODY CROSSES THE TAPE, DISTURBS ANY EVIDENCE.

Q: KEEP PEOPLE OUT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID THEY DO THAT?

A: YES, THEY DID.

Q: SO YOU SEARCHED THE ALLEY THEN FROM DOROTHY AND BUNDY UP TO GORHAM?

A: DOROTHY, THE REAR ALLEY OF DOROTHY UP TO GORHAM.

Q: SO FOR ONE BLOCK BEHIND THE HOUSE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU FIND?

A: NOTHING.

Q: WAS THERE -- DID ANYBODY TAKE ANY STEPS TO BLOCK -- TO BLOCK OFF TRAFFIC?

A: WELL, WE HAD BUNDY FROM DOROTHY TO GORHAM CLOSED TO VEHICLES.

Q: SO THE ENTIRE -- SO TRAFFIC WAS BLOCKED OFF IN FRONT OF THE LOCATION ON BUNDY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OR BLOOD DROPS IN THE ALLEY?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WERE YOU LOOKING FOR THEM?

A: YES.

Q: WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AT SOME POINT, SIR, DID YOU GO TO THE LOCATION OF 874 SOUTH BUNDY WHERE YOUR INITIAL CALL CAME FROM?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WAS THAT AFTER YOU LOOKED THROUGH THE ALLEY FOR EVIDENCE?

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS BEFORE. I WENT BACK TO THE FRONT, MADE SURE THE CRIME SCENE WAS SECURE AND I BELIEVE ANOTHER OFFICER AND I WENT TO 874.

Q: SO BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE ALLEY OR -- AND WAS IT AFTER THE CHILDREN WERE TAKEN OUT?

A: IT WAS AFTER THE CHILDREN.

Q: AFTER YOU TOOK THE CHILDREN OUT, DID YOU GO OVER TO 874 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHY WAS THAT?

A: I SPOKE WITH A FEMALE WHITE, THE ORIGINAL P/R THAT CALLED, THE ONE THAT CALLED IN THE BURGLAR.

Q: THE ORIGINAL CALL THAT YOU RESPONDED TO OF A BURGLARY AT 874?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE WOMAN YOU SPOKE TO?

A: IT WAS AN ELDERLY FEMALE WHITE. I BELIEVE SHE HAD WHITE HAIR.

Q: AND DID YOU TALK TO HER ABOUT HER CALL --

A: YES, I DID.

Q: -- TO YOU? DID YOU -- DID SHE DISCUSS WITH YOU HEARING THE DOORBELL RINGING AND SOMEBODY KNOCKING ON HER DOOR?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. HEARSAY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. I BELIEVE IT JUST EXPLAINS SUBSEQUENT ACTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AS A RESULT OF WHAT SHE TOLD YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: MY PARTNER AND I OR THE OFFICERS WITH ME AND I GOT A KEY FROM HER FOR THE REAR GATE AND WE SEARCHED HER YARD FOR -- JUST TO MAKE SURE NOTHING WAS WRONG.

Q: DID SHE HAVE A DOG IN THE BACKYARD THERE?

A: YES, SHE DID.

Q: DID YOU ASK HER TO TAKE THAT DOG IN?

A: YES.

Q: AND SHE DID THAT?

A: YES.

Q: THEN YOU SEARCHED AROUND HER HOUSE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: FIND ANY PROBLEMS?

A: NO.

Q: ANY EVIDENCE OF RECENTLY TRAMPLED SHRUBBERY OR --

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. COCHRAN: FORM OF THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SEE ANY SCREENS REMOVED FROM THE WINDOWS?

A: NO, WE DIDN'T.

Q: ANY EVIDENCE OF SOME RECENT JIMMYING OF ANY LOCKS OR ANYTHING?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU REPORT BACK TO HER?

A: YES. WE TOOK HER THE KEY TO THE GATE AND WE TOLD HER IT LOOKED CLEAR AND DIDN'T LOOK LIKE ANYBODY HAD BEEN BACK THERE.

Q: AND DID YOU TELL HER NOT TO GO OUTSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: WHY IS THAT?

A: I TOLD HER WE HAD A CRIME ACROSS THE STREET AND JUST TO STAY IN THE HOUSE.

Q: NOW, AFTER YOU MADE CONTACT WITH HER, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: THEN I WENT TO THE REAR AND SEARCHED THE ALLEY, THE REAR OF 875 BUNDY AND SEARCHED THE ALLEY.

Q: THAT'S WHEN YOU SEARCHED THE ALLEY?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?

A: I CAME BACK TO THE FRONT AND I NOTICED THAT SERGEANT ROSSI, WEST L.A. WATCH COMMANDER WAS THERE AND SERGEANT COON WAS TALKING TO HIM. I APPROACHED THEM, DISCUSSED WHAT WE HAD AND SERGEANT ROSSI, SERGEANT COON AND I CROSSED THE TAPE, WENT UP ON THE GRASS AND LOOKED AT THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: NOW, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF DOING THAT?

A: HE'S MY SUPERVISOR. I HAVE TO TELL HIM WHAT WE HAVE.

Q: AND SO WHEN YOU ESCORTED HIM UP TO WHERE -- CLOSER TO WHERE THE VICTIMS WERE, AGAIN, YOU WALKED ON THE BUSHES AND ON THE GRASS?

A: WALKED ON THE GRASS, NOT IN THE BUSHES THIS TIME.

Q: OKAY. NOT ON THAT PATHWAY.

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID YOU POINT OUT THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU HAD FOUND WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHO WAS IT THAT WAS WITH YOU AT THAT TIME?

A: SERGEANT DAVE ROSSI AND SERGEANT MARTY COON.

Q: NOW, DID YOU TAKE THEM STEPPING UP OVER THE BODY OF NICOLE AND DOWN THE PATHWAY?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: WE WENT -- AFTER I SHOWED THEM THE INITIAL CRIME SCENE, WE WENT DOWN TO DOROTHY, WENT AROUND TO THE REAR. I SHOWED THEM THE JEEP, THE CHANGE ON THE GROUND, THE BLOOD ON THE DRIVEWAY. I TOOK SERGEANT ROSSI TO THE GATE, SHOWED HIM THE BLOOD ON THE GATE AND WE WENT APPROXIMATELY HALFWAY DOWN THE WALKWAY. I SHOWED THE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS.

MS. CLARK: ONE MOMENT, OFFICER.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 49.

THE COURT: 49, PHOTOGRAPH.

(PEO'S 49 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: NO. BACK IT UP, JOHN. PULL IT BACK.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OFFICER, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE'RE SHOWING YOU HERE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: IT'S PRETTY DARK.

A: THERE'S NO STREET SIGN.

Q: YOU SEE THE POLICE CARS THERE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND YOU SEE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LOCATION, WHAT CORNER THAT IS, WHAT THAT INTERSECTION IS?

A: NOT WITHOUT A STREET SIGN, NO.

MS. CLARK: GO AHEAD. MARK THIS AS PEOPLE'S 50.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 50. (PEO'S 50 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: YES. CAN YOU ZOOM IN ON THE STREET SIGN, JOHN?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW GOOD IS YOUR EYESIGHT?

A: WELL, I CAN SEE IT SAYS BUNDY DRIVE.

Q: YEAH.

MS. CLARK: CAN YOU MAKE THE SIGN A LITTLE CLEARER? I CAN'T LOOK.

THE WITNESS: BEFORE. NOT NOW.

MS. CLARK: THERE WE GO.

THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 50, BUNDY DRIVE.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. WE GET IT. OKAY. COULD WE BACK UP NOW, SHOW THE INTERSECTION? THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US NOW WHERE THAT -- WHERE THOSE TWO CARS ARE AND THE CRIME SCENE TAPE, SIR?

A: THAT WOULD BE BUNDY AND DOROTHY.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, EXCUSE ME. I AM GOING TO RELEASE THE VIDEO ON SOME OF THESE. LET ME KNOW IF ANYTHING SENSITIVE COMES UP.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THE VIEW THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, IS IT LOOKING IN A WESTERLY DIRECTION IF YOU WERE STANDING ON DOROTHY?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: THE VIEW THAT WE HAD BEFORE, PEOPLE'S -- THAT WAS MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 49, CAN YOU TELL US IF THAT WAS A VIEW LOOKING FROM SOUTH TO NORTH FROM THE -- ON BUNDY?

A: IT WAS LOOKING NORTH.

MS. CLARK: CAN WE GO BACK TO THAT NOW? THANKS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DOES THAT DEPICT ALSO THE -- IT WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE OF BUNDY?

A: YES. I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE PICTURE WHEN BUNDY WAS CLOSED DOWN. THIS IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE AFTER WE MADE THE CRIME SCENE SMALLER, JUST OF THREE HOUSES. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE -- THIS IS BUNDY DRIVE, BUT IT'S NOT BUNDY AND DOROTHY.

Q: THE CORNER OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY, IS THAT THE CORNER THAT YOU ALL WALKED AROUND?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS WITH SERGEANT ROSSI AND SERGEANT COON?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN THAT SIDEWALK, SIR, DOWN BUNDY AROUND THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND ONTO DOROTHY, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ON THE SIDEWALK?

A: JUST BLOODY PAW PRINTS.

Q: AT SOME POINT, DID THEY FADE OUT?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO THEN WHAT PATH DID YOU TAKE WITH SERGEANT ROSSI AND SERGEANT COON?

A: WE WENT BUNDY TO DOROTHY, DOROTHY TO THE MOUTH OF THE ALLEY AND THEN JUST WALKED THROUGH UP TO THE CRIME -- UP TO 875.

Q: LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, PEOPLE'S 51.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: ASK THAT THIS BE MARKED 51.

(PEO'S 51 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LOCATION IS DEPICTED HERE AGAIN?

A: THAT IS BUNDY AND DOROTHY.

Q: THAT IS BUNDY AND DOROTHY?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT'S THE -- IN THE LEFT-HAND CORNER WHERE YOU SEE THE POLICE CAR, WOULD THAT BE THE CORNER THAT YOU WALKED AROUND?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU TOOK THEM UP THE ALLEY AND INTO THE REAR AREA THROUGH THE REAR DRIVEWAY AREA?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID YOU POINT OUT THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED TO US EARLIER, THE BLOOD DROPS AND THE CHANGE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WERE THERE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OUT ON THAT REAR DRIVEWAY?

A: NO.

Q: AND DID YOU TAKE THEM UP, TAKE SERGEANT ROSSI AND SERGEANT COON THROUGH THE REAR GATE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: THAT REAR GATE THAT WE SEE IN --

A: I BELIEVE IT'S JUST SERGEANT ROSSI AND MYSELF.

Q: IT WAS JUST SERGEANT ROSSI AND YOURSELF AT THAT POINT?

A: I BELIEVE. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: ON PEOPLE'S 48, THE BLOOD TRAIL, IN F, YOU SEE THE REAR GATE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT'S THE GATE THAT LEADS OUT TO THE DRIVEWAY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT IN THROUGH THAT REAR GATE WITH SERGEANT ROSSI, WERE THERE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS AT THAT -- AT THE END OF THE WALKWAY JUST BY THAT REAR GATE?

A: NO.

Q: HOW FAR DID YOU WALK WITH SERGEANT ROSSI?

A: I'D SAY ABOUT HALFWAY. WE --

Q: HALFWAY DOWN THE WALKWAY?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU DID NOT TAKE HIM ALL THE WAY UP TO THE FRONT DOOR?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AS YOU WALKED HIM HALFWAY UP THE WALKWAY, WERE YOU USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WERE YOU POINTING OUT WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU POINT OUT ANY BLOOD DROPS TO HIM?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU POINT THEM OUT?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, HASN'T THIS BEEN COVERED? ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. COCHRAN: THIS HAS BEEN COVERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: JUST FROM THE REAR GATE UP TO WHERE THE -- THE -- WHAT APPEARED TO BE FOOTPRINTS STARTED AGAIN, AND THEN WE STOPPED THERE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SO THE FOOTPRINTS LED FROM THE BODIES OF THE VICTIMS IN THE DIRECTION UP TOWARDS THE REAR GATE?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. MAY WE APPROACH? OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. MAY WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: YES, WITH THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: WE ARE OVER AT THE SIDEBAR.

MS. CLARK: IT'S FOUNDATIONAL.

THE COURT: NO. YOU'RE COVERING -- YOU ARE COVERING DIFFERENT AREAS SHOWING WHAT SERGEANT ROSSI DID AND ALL OF THAT. BUT IT IS REDUNDANT TO KEEP ASKING HIM, NOW, YOU JUST TOLD US X, Y AND Z, IS THAT CORRECT AFTER HE'S JUST TOLD US --

MR. COCHRAN: OFFICER ROSSI IS THE NEXT WITNESS. JUDGE, I DON'T -- ALL I CAN SAY, IF WE HAVE TO GO OVER THIS TEN TIMES, EVEN THE JURORS ARE GOING TO GET SICK OF THIS. AND ROSSI IS THE NEXT WITNESS. SO HE GOES THROUGH THE HALLWAY, THEN HE TELLS US WHAT HE AND ROSSI DID. NOW, SHE'S TAKING HIM BACK STEP BY STEP. IT'S REDUNDANT AND CUMULATIVE.

THE COURT: ONE OF THE ISSUES THOUGH IS HOW DO THEY CONTAIN THE CRIME SCENE. SO SHE IS ENTITLED TO GO INTO THIS STUFF. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. THE WAY, YOU KEEP SAYING -- REPEATING THE ANSWER TO CONFIRM THE ANSWER, YOU KNOW, UNLESS MERELY DONE TO UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, WHICH HAPPENS OCCASIONALLY, BUT --

MS. CLARK: WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS BRING HIM BACK FOUNDATIONALLY TO GO INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, AND AT THAT POINT -- BUT I'LL TRY AND DO THAT IN A MORE ARTFUL FASHION.

MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL WAS INARTFUL, I'LL STIPULATE TO THAT. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? ANYWAY, YOUR HONOR, AT ANY RATE, THE POINT IS, I MEAN, IT DOESN'T HELP FOR HER TO GO OVER AND OVER AND OVER THIS STUFF. THAT'S ALL I AM TRYING TO SAY AND --

THE COURT: NO. BUT SHE IS ENTITLED TO GO INTO THIS STUFF BECAUSE YOU MADE AN ISSUE OF THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE. SO SHE GETS TO GO INTO HOW THEY DID THIS.

MR. COCHRAN: I'M GLAD SHE IS DOING IT. I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT I WILL STILL BE ABLE TO SHOW AT THE CRIME SCENE, HE WAS WALKING THROUGH IT LIKE THE OTHER PEOPLE WERE.

THE COURT: THE ISSUE IS HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE DID THIS GUY SHOW AROUND THE CRIME SCENE. LOTS. I MEAN --

MS. CLARK: TELL YOU WHAT. IT'S GOING TO --

MR. COCHRAN: THERE'S TWO THINGS COUNSEL CARES ABOUT. BUT I WON'T KNOW UNTIL I GET UP AND START CROSS-EXAMINING, ALL RIGHT, AND THEN --

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO PUT ON SERGEANT ROSSI, BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT OFFICER RISKE DID BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SEE IT ALL.

MR. COCHRAN: NO. THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

MS. CLARK: I AM CERTAIN, COUNSEL, YOU ARE GOING TO GO INTO AT GREAT LENGTH THE MANNER IN WHICH THE CRIME SCENE WAS NOT PRESERVED, AND WHAT I NEED TO DO WITH THESE OFFICERS, THE FIRST ONES ON THE SCENE, IS INDICATE -- IS LET THEM INDICATE THAT THE SCENE AS DEPICTED IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS IS WHAT THEY FOUND AND PEOPLE WERE CAREFUL, BECAUSE THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH TRAMPLING THROUGH, THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH THROWING EVIDENCE AROUND. WE ALL KNOW THAT'S TRUE.

MR. COCHRAN: YOU DON'T HAVE TO ARGUE WITH ME. I HAVE A VIDEO. SO WE'LL BE ABLE TO SEE.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN MADE HIS OBJECTION. I'M GOING TO OVERRULE THE OBJECTION, BUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME, IT BECOMES REDUNDANT.

MR. COCHRAN: AT SOME POINT. ARE WE CLOSE?

THE COURT: NO. MR. COCHRAN, THIS IS JUST THE FIRST CRIME SCENE WITNESS IN A VERY LARGE AND VERY COMPLEX CRIME SCENE.

MR. COCHRAN: I HOPE THE COURT ALLOWS US THE SAME KIND OF LATITUDE ON OUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

THE COURT: NO. I EXPECT YOU JUST TO SHOW THE VIDEO AND SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND SIT DOWN.

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT. VERY GOOD. I WILL BE DOING THAT.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. WITH REFERENCE TO THOSE FOOTPRINTS, THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS THAT YOU SAW LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODY OF THE VICTIMS TOWARDS THE REAR GATE, WHEN YOU FIRST WALKED DOWN THAT WALKWAY FROM THE -- AFTER YOU EXITED THE FRONT DOOR OF THE CONDOMINIUM GOING TOWARDS THE REAR GATE, DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER THE SHOEPRINTS CONTINUED ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR GATE OR NOT?

A: NO, THEY DIDN'T. THEY FADED OUT.

Q: THEY FADED OUT?

A: YES.

Q: AT WHAT POINT?

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS AFTER THE SECOND LANDING GOING DOWN THE STAIRS, FROM THE SECOND LANDING THEY FADED.

Q: WAS THAT ABOUT HALFWAY?

A: YES.

Q: HALFWAY DOWN BEFORE YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE?

A: YES.

Q: SO WHEN YOU TOOK SERGEANT ROSSI IN THROUGH THE REAR GATE, YOU TOOK HIM UP AS FAR AS THE LAST BLOODY SHOEPRINT?

MR. COCHRAN: IT'S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: WE JUST -- WE TURNED AROUND, WENT BACK OUT AND WE RETURNED TO THE FRONT ON BUNDY.

Q: NOW, AGAIN, WHEN YOU TURNED AROUND, WENT BACK OUT, WERE YOU USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT TO SEE WHAT WAS ON THE WALKWAY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU AVOID THE BLOOD DROPS?

A: YES.

Q: AT THAT POINT THAT YOU WERE WALKING BACK WITH HIM, THERE WERE NO MORE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

A: NO, THERE WEREN'T.

Q: AND DID THOSE SHOEPRINTS APPEAR TO GET LIGHTER AND LIGHTER AS YOU WENT FARTHER DOWN THE WALKWAY TOWARD THE REAR GATE?

A: FROM THE FRONT?

Q: YES.

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. BUT HE'S ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT IT FADED OUT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU EXITED THE REAR GATE WITH SERGEANT ROSSI, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WE RETURNED TO THE FRONT ON BUNDY.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU STAY?

A: IN THE STREET.

Q: NOT ON THE SIDEWALK?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN ARRIVED.

Q: DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN THAT ARRIVED?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN THEY ARRIVED?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I WOULD ONLY BE GUESSING. I DON'T --

Q: WAS IT LIKE A COUPLE HOURS AFTER YOU FIRST GOT THERE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE DID THEY PULL UP TO? WHERE DID YOU FIRST SEE THEM?

A: THEY PARKED ON -- BE THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY AND THEY PARKED ON DOROTHY.

Q: NOW, AT THIS POINT, WHO WAS ALREADY AT THE LOCATION, WHICH PEOPLE THAT YOU SAW?

A: MYSELF AND MY PARTNER.

Q: OFFICER TERRAZAS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT. OFFICER MC GOWAN, OFFICER WALLY, BUT THEY HAD GONE UP TO GORHAM AND DOROTHY AND BLOCKED TRAFFIC. SERGEANT COON WAS THERE, SERGEANT ROSSI, OFFICER CHAVEZ AND CUMMINGS, OFFICER GLORIOSO, ZEIGLER AND OFFICER ASTON. I DON'T KNOW WHO HIS PARTNER WAS.

Q: GONZALEZ?

A: YES. OFFICER GONZALEZ.

Q: AND WERE THESE PEOPLE ALL GUARDING THE PERIMETER?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT WERE THESE PEOPLE DOING?

A: OFFICER CUMMINGS WAS MAINTAINING CONTROL OF THE CRIME SCENE LOG, WHO ARRIVED AND WHO LEFT. OFFICER GONZALEZ AND ASTON WERE KNOCKING ON THE NEIGHBORS' DOORS, SEE IF THEY HEARD OR SAW ANYTHING. OFFICER TERRAZAS WAS IN THE BACK GUARDING THE BACK.

Q: GUARDING THE BACK?

A: THAT'S CORRECT. OFFICER SANCHEZ WAS GUARDING THE FRONT WITH SERGEANT COON AND I BELIEVE GLORIOSO AND ZEIGLER WERE ALSO KNOCKING ON DOORS.

Q: AND AT THAT POINT -- AND SERGEANT ROSSI WAS THERE AS WELL?

A: SERGEANT ROSSI WITH ME, YES.

Q: AND AFTER ALL THOSE PEOPLE WERE THERE ABOUT TWO HOURS AFTER YOU GOT TO THE SCENE, DETECTIVES RON PHILLIPS AND MARK FUHRMAN ARRIVED?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY ARRIVED?

A: THEY MET WITH SERGEANT ROSSI, SERGEANT COON AND MYSELF. WE WENT OVER WHAT WE HAD. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, PHILLIPS, SERGEANT COON AND I APPROACHED THE FRONT ON THE GRASS. I SHOWED THEM THE CRIME SCENE WE HAD IN THE FRONT. UMM, DETECTIVE --

Q: EXCUSE ME. LET ME STOP YOU THERE, SIR. WHEN YOU SAY YOU APPROACHED THE CRIME SCENE ON THE GRASS, WAS THAT THE SAME ROUTE THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US BEFORE TO THE LEFT OF THE WALKWAY AS YOU FACE IT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT. IT WAS TO THE LEFT OF THE PLANTS ON THE WALKWAY.

MS. CLARK: CAN WE CUT THE FEED, YOUR HONOR?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, SHOWN IN -- THIS IS PEOPLE'S 43, 43-B. ONCE AGAIN, IS THAT TO THE LEFT OF THE WALKWAY SHOWN THERE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU TOOK THAT SAME PATH AS YOU DID BEFORE?

A: NO. THERE'S GRASS TO THE LEFT OF THIS AND WE WALKED IN THE GRASS (INDICATING).

Q: YOU'RE GESTURING OVER TO THE LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THE PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, WE MIGHT NEED TO KILL THE FEED FOR THIS.

MS. CLARK: YES. I ALREADY TOLD HIM.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU TAKE THEM ALL THE WAY UP TO THE CALL BOX THAT YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER?

A: NO. WE STAYED IN THE GRASS TO THE LEFT OF THE FOLIAGE.

Q: AND AT THIS POINT, WHO WAS STANDING ON THE GRASS WITH YOU?

A: IT'S DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, I BELIEVE SERGEANT COON AND MYSELF.

Q: AND DID YOU HAVE YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: SO IT WAS ABOUT 2:30 IN THE MORNING AT THIS POINT?

A: I BELIEVE. I'M NOT SURE WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SHOW THEM?

A: I SHOWED THEM THE TWO BODIES, THE EVIDENCE I HAD SEEN, THE ENVELOPE, THE HAT, THE GLOVE.

Q: AND THEY ALL OBSERVED IT FROM THAT POSITION ON THE GRASS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: WE THEN -- I TOOK THEM AROUND TO THE NEIGHBOR'S YARD, I SHOWED THEM WHERE THE PAGER WAS LAYING, THE BODY OF MR. GOLDMAN.

Q: SO YOU TOOK THEM AROUND TO THE SIDE THAT'S SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S -- EXCUSE ME -- 43-A OUTSIDE THIS GATED AREA?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU LET THEM SEE --

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, REPEATING WHAT HE SAID.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: THAT'S 47 --

MR. COCHRAN: I MOVE TO STRIKE THAT, EVERYTHING SHE SAID.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 47 --

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 47-A AROUND THE OUTSIDE OF THAT GATE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?

A: THEN THE TWO DETECTIVES, I BELIEVE BOTH SERGEANTS AND MYSELF WALKED AROUND DOWN BUNDY TO DOROTHY, DOROTHY TO THE REAR ALLEY AND WENT TO THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q: OKAY. THE SAME PATH THAT YOU TOOK BEFORE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, MAY I ASK THAT THE PHOTOGRAPHS WE'RE GOING TO PUT UP NOW ON THE ELMO BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 52?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 52.

(PEO'S 52 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 52, SIR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S BEING SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHAT'S THAT?

A: THAT'S THE REAR OF 875 AND THE JEEP THAT WAS IN THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU FIRST GOT TO THE LOCATION SHORTLY AFTER MIDNIGHT, THE FIRST TIME YOU WENT BACK TO THE REAR AREA THAT'S SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 52, WAS THE JEEP IN THAT POSITION?

A: YES.

Q: OUTSIDE THE GARAGE?

A: YES.

Q: BUT THE GARAGE DOOR WAS CLOSED?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO YOU CAME AROUND THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND UP THE ALLEY --

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: -- WITH DETECTIVES PHILLIPS, FUHRMAN AND SERGEANT COON?

A: AND SERGEANT ROSSI.

Q: AND SERGEANT ROSSI. SO IT WAS FIVE OF YOU.

A: RIGHT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: WE WENT TO THE DRIVEWAY, SHOWED THEM THE DOOR THAT WAS AJAR AND THE JEEP, THE CHANGE AND THE BLOOD ON THE DRIVEWAY. I WAS SHOWING DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THE BLOOD THAT WAS ON THE GATE.

Q: THE REAR GATE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT. AND SERGEANT ROSSI AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WALKED DOWN THE WALKWAY PROBABLY HALFWAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS I WOULD ASK BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 53.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 53, CHART WITH PHOTOS.

MS. CLARK: AND THEY WILL BE LABELED.

THE COURT: THANK YOU. (PEO'S 53 FOR ID = CHART WITH PHOTOS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU -- LET ME LET YOU LOOK AT THAT FOR A MINUTE TO ORIENT YOURSELF.

MS. CLARK: CAN EVERYBODY SEE THAT?

THE WITNESS: OKAY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU SEE WHAT'S -- FIRST OF ALL, IN GENERAL, WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN ON PEOPLE'S 53?

A: THAT'S THE REAR GATE OF 875 BUNDY.

Q: NOW, WHAT WILL BE LABELED AS PHOTOGRAPH 53-A, IS THIS TAKEN FROM INSIDE OR OUTSIDE THE GATE?

A: THAT'S INSIDE THE GATE.

Q: SO THAT WOULD BE -- SO THAT'S FROM INSIDE THE GATE AND YOU ARE FACING OUT TOWARD THE ALLEY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: I'LL LET YOU USE THIS. CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU SEE WHERE YOU SAW BLOOD DROPS ON THE REAR GATE ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH?

A: THERE WAS BLOOD AT THE BOTTOM, THERE WAS BLOOD ON THIS LATCH, THERE WAS BLOOD AT THE TOP AND MY PARTNER DIRECTED MY ATTENTION TO BLOOD ON THE OUTSIDE ON THE GRATING.

Q: AND DO YOU SEE THAT BLOOD DESIGNATED BY SOME KIND OF MARKER IN WHAT WILL BE LABELED AS 53-E?

A: WHICH ONE IS THAT?

Q: LET'S SEE. THIS ONE IS A, SECOND PHOTOGRAPH HERE SHOWING THE BLOOD DROPS YOU'VE INDICATED AT THE BOTTOM RUNG IS B, CLOSER UP IS C AND CLOSER UP IN D. IN E AND F, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S SHOWN THERE?

A: THIS IS THE OUTSIDE OF THE REAR GATE AND THAT WILL BE WHERE THE BLOOD WAS.

Q: AND A CLOSER-UP VIEW OF THAT IN F?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, IF I MAY, I'M GOING TO ASK TO SHOW THIS TO THE REST OF THE JURY.

THE COURT: YES.

THE WITNESS: WANT ME TO COME WITH --

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU WANT TO GO AND POINT IT OUT AGAIN, SIR? KEEP YOUR VOICE UP.

A: THIS WOULD BE THE INTERIOR OF THE REAR GATE. THIS WOULD BE BLOOD ON THE BOTTOM RUNG ON THE INSIDE OF THE GATE. THIS IS A CLOSER-UP PICTURE OF BLOOD ON THE BOTTOM. THIS IS EVEN CLOSER. THIS IS THE OUTSIDE OF THE REAR GATE. THE BLOOD WOULD BE ON THE GRATING, AND THIS IS A CLOSER-UP PICTURE OF THE BLOOD ON THE GRATING.

Q: THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT. SO AFTER YOU ALL WENT INSIDE THE REAR GATE, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WELL, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND I WENT TO THE REAR GATE. WE DIDN'T GO INSIDE, AND SERGEANT ROSSI AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WENT ABOUT HALFWAY DOWN THE WALK.

Q: SO YOU STAYED OUTSIDE THE REAR GATE WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO THERE?

A: I SHOWED HIM THE BLOOD ON THE REAR GATE AND, LIKE I SAID, THE BLOOD IN THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND SERGEANT ROSSI CAME OUT OF THE WALKWAY THROUGH THE REAR GATE AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, PHILLIPS AND I ENTERED THE HOUSE THROUGH THE GARAGE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BY THAT TIME, THE GARAGE WAS ALREADY OPENED?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: OKAY. AND SO HOW MANY OF YOU WALKED IN THROUGH THE GARAGE?

A: THREE OF US.

Q: AND THAT WAS YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS --

A: FUHRMAN.

Q: -- AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: PHILLIPS.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: AS SOON AS WE ENTERED THE HOUSE FROM THE GARAGE, I SHOWED THEM THE ICE CREAM AND THE SPOON WAS ON THE GROUND. WE DID A QUICK WALK THROUGH THE HOUSE AND THEN WE WENT OUT TO THE FRONT LANDING.

Q: HAD YOU NOTICED WHEN YOU FIRST WERE INSIDE THE HOUSE THAT THE SPOON THAT WAS IN THAT ICE CREAM CUP WAS ON THE GROUND?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU?

A: IT LOOKED LIKE THE ICE CREAM HAD MELTED AND THE SPOON HAD FELL ON THE FLOOR. IT WAS DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH THE ICE CREAM.

Q: UH-HUH. WHERE DID YOU WALK THEM THROUGH INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: WE LOOKED AT THE MAIN LEVEL AND WENT UP, I SHOWED THEM THE KIDS'S BEDROOMS AND THE MASTER BEDROOM. WE WENT OUT ON THE, LIKE I SAID, THE WORKOUT AREA, LOOKED DOWN INTO THE LIVING AREA. THEN WE CAME BACK DOWN AND WENT OUT TO THE FRONT LANDING.

Q: AND WHEN YOU CAME OUT ONTO THE FRONT LANDING, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE BOTH OF THE VICTIMS THERE?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A BOARD THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL, ASK THIS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 54?

THE COURT: 54.

(PEO'S 54 FOR ID = BOARD)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE PEOPLE'S 54, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: IF YOU CAN SEE THE DIAGRAM WITH THE OUTLINES OF THE BODIES IN YELLOW, CAN YOU TELL US IF THAT IS THE RELATIVE POSITION OF THE BODIES TO EACH OTHER AT THE CRIME SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, IF YOU WOULD, SIR --

A: I THINK HER HEAD WAS ACTUALLY CLOSER TO THE STAIRS THOUGH.

Q: CLOSER BACK TO THE STAIRS?

A: RIGHT.

Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US, SIR, THE AREA WHERE THE BODIES WERE FOUND IN TERMS OF SPACE, IN TERMS OF HOW LARGE THAT SPACE IS?

A: I WOULD ESTIMATE FROM THE NORTH FENCE TO THE FOILAGE ON THE LEFT OF THE WALKWAY, PROBABLY 10 FEET AND MAYBE SIX FEET LONG.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, WAS THAT A FAIRLY SMALL ENCLOSED AREA?

A: YES.

Q: SO WHEN YOU STOOD AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING, DID YOU POINT OUT -- DID YOU USE YOUR FLASHLIGHT AT THAT POINT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I POINTED OUT THE EVIDENCE THAT I HAD SEEN. I SHOWED HIM THE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS AND THE WALKWAY.

Q: OKAY.

A: THE TWO VICTIMS.

Q: AND DID YOU SHOW THEM, AGAIN, THE ENVELOPE, THE CAP, THE GLOVE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT FROM STANDING UP ON THE LANDING?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?

A: THEY LOOKED AROUND -- JUST STANDING THERE, THEY LOOKED AND THEY LOOKED AT THE STEPS LEADING TOWARDS THE REAR -- I MEAN THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS LEADING TOWARDS THE REAR, THEN WE WENT BACK INTO THE HOUSE AND I BELIEVE SERGEANT COON GOT A HOLD OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND TOLD HIM THAT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER HAD ARRIVED. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND I STAYED IN THE HOUSE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WENT OUT TO MEET WITH THE LIEUTENANT.

MS. CLARK: EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. COULD WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: SURE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: WE ARE OVER AT SIDEBAR.

MS. CLARK: I WAS JUST WONDERING WHY COUNSEL FEELS THE NEED TO STAND WITHIN 10 INCHES OF ME WHILE I'M DOING THIS QUESTIONING.

THE COURT: BECAUSE HE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE CHART.

MR. COCHRAN: I CAN'T SEE THE CHART.

MS. CLARK: HOW ABOUT IF I TURN IT, HAVE IT --

MR. COCHRAN: I STILL CAN'T SEE IT OVER THERE.

MS. CLARK: IT'S A VERY SIMPLE CHART, YOUR HONOR, AND I KNOW THAT COUNSEL HAS SEEN QUITE A LOT OF IT IN GREAT DETAIL.

THE COURT: NO. BUT HE NEEDS TO SEE WHAT THE WITNESS IS POINTING TO.

MS. CLARK: HE'S NOT POINTING TO ANYTHING.

THE COURT: WELL, WE DON'T --

MR. COCHRAN: HOW DO I KNOW THAT?

THE COURT: SEE, MARCIA, IT'S A BAD ANGLE. IT'S JUST A BAD ANGLE.

MS. CLARK: IF I TURNED IT --

MR. COCHRAN: I HAVEN'T SEEN HALF OF THESE THINGS. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HALF THE TIME. OF COURSE, I'M NOT THE ONE THAT HAS TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

MS. CLARK: I AGREE IF I TILT IT SO THAT COUNSEL CAN SEE IT FROM COUNSEL TABLE, PERHAPS HE CAN GET --

THE COURT: THEN THE JURY IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT.

MS. CLARK: ACTUALLY --

MR. COCHRAN: I'M NOT BOTHERING HER. I'M STANDING BEHIND HER.

THE COURT: I KNOW. HE'S NOT SAYING ANYTHING. HE'S NOT PUTTING RABBIT EARS BEHIND YOUR HEAD OR ANYTHING.

MS. CLARK: I NEVER KNOW WHEN HE WILL, YOUR HONOR.

MR. COCHRAN: I DIDN'T DO THAT. I'M STANDING THERE NOT TALKING.

THE COURT: HE'S ENTITLED TO SEE WHAT IT IS YOU ARE DOING.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE COURT: LET ME MAKE ONE OTHER COMMENT TO YOU OFF THE RECORD.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. COCHRAN, IF YOU'D LIKE, YOU CAN JUST SIT THERE.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: YOU ARE WELCOME.

MR. COCHRAN: APPRECIATE THAT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, YOU'RE JUST USING THE DIAGRAMS, CORRECT?

MS. CLARK: THAT'S RIGHT.

THE COURT: THERE'S NOTHING ELSE WE'RE GOING TO SEE ON THIS?

MS. CLARK: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, FROM YOUR POSITION AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING, WERE YOU ABLE TO POINT OUT ALL OF THE EVIDENCE YOU'VE DESCRIBED TO US?

A: YES.

Q: AND IS THAT WHERE THE DETECTIVES STAYED BY, AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING AT THAT POINT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THEN YOU INDICATED THAT THEY WENT WHERE?

A: THEY JUST -- THEY STAYED ON THE LANDING AND LOOKED AT THE SHOEPRINTS THAT CONTINUED WESTBOUND TOWARDS THE REAR.

Q: AND THEY LOOKED AT THAT FROM THEIR VANTAGE POINT AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHERE DID THEY GO AFTER THAT?

A: I BELIEVE LIEUTENANT SPANGLER ARRIVED. I DON'T REMEMBER IF SERGEANT COON YELLED TO PHILLIPS OR GOT HIM ON THE RADIO TO TELL HIM HE WAS HERE. BUT FUHRMAN AND I WENT IN THE HOUSE, STAYED IN THE KITCHEN AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WENT OUT TO MEET THE LIEUTENANT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW WHAT ROUTE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOOK TO EXIT THE CONDOMINIUM?

A: HE WENT THROUGH THE HOUSE DOWN THE STAIRS AND THROUGH THE GARAGE.

Q: OKAY. SO HE WENT OUT THE BACK?

A: THAT IS CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU STAYED INSIDE THE HOUSE WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU DOING INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: JUST STANDING IN THE KITCHEN, KIND OF LOOKING AROUND. I BELIEVE THERE WAS A JACKET IN THERE, A BLUE JEAN JACKET. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IF IT WAS ONE OF THE VICTIMS.

Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND I BELIEVE HE WAS ACCOMPANIED BY THE LIEUTENANT, CAME IN THE HOUSE AND I EXITED THE REAR AND JUST STAYED BY MY PARTNER.

Q: SO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CAME BACK INSIDE. AND WHEN YOU SAY INSIDE, INTO THE CONDOMINIUM?

A: INTO THE KITCHEN AND MET WITH FUHRMAN.

Q: AND WHEN HE CAME IN AND MET WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU LEFT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHAT ROUTE DID YOU TAKE TO LEAVE?

A: I WENT THROUGH THE HOUSE DOWN THE STAIRS AND OUT THE GARAGE.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT?

A: I WENT OUT TO THE PATROL CAR THAT WAS PARKED IN THE ALLEY AND JUST SAT WITH MY PARTNER.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU DOING?

A: JUST MAINTAINING SECURITY. WE HAD BEEN RELIEVED BY THE DETECTIVES. THEY ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY.

Q: SO AT THAT POINT, YOU WERE JUST MAINTAINING THE SECURITY OF THE LOCATION IN THE REAR OF THE CONDOMINIUM?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THAT WAS -- YOU STOOD IN OR OUTSIDE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: OUTSIDE.

Q: DID ANYONE ENTER THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE TAPE THAT WAS NOT AUTHORIZED TO DO SO WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

A: NO.

Q: IN EITHER THE FRONT OR THE BACK?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU EVER GO BACK -- AFTER YOU WENT OUT AND STOOD IN THE REAR ALLEY AREA, DID YOU EVER GO BACK INTO THE CRIME SCENE AGAIN?

A: WITH A PHOTOGRAPHER.

Q: PARDON?

A: WITH A PHOTOGRAPHER.

Q: AND WHEN WAS THAT, SIR?

A: UMM, IN THE BACK, IT WAS PROBABLY 10 OR 15 MINUTES AFTER I HAD BEEN RELIEVED BY THE DETECTIVES. AND IN THE FRONT, IT WAS WHEN IT WAS STARTING TO GET DAYLIGHT.

Q: NOW, IN THE BACK, WAS THAT -- HOW LONG AFTER YOUR EXITING THE CONDOMINIUM DID THE PHOTOGRAPHER COME AND START TAKING PICTURES OF THE BACK?

A: I BELIEVE THE PHOTOGRAPHER BEAT THE DETECTIVES THERE AND I WAS IN THE BACK PROBABLY 20 MINUTES WHEN HE CAME BACK AND STARTED TAKING PICTURES.

Q: OKAY. AND TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAD HE TAKEN PICTURES IN THE FRONT YET, IF YOU KNOW?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: AFTER HE TOOK -- DID YOU SHOW HIM WHERE TO TAKE PICTURES IN THE BACK?

A: I SHOWED HIM SOME BLOOD, TOLD HIM ABOUT THE ICE CREAM ON THE BANISTER AND THAT'S ABOUT IT.

Q: DID YOU SHOW HIM THE CHANGE AND THE BLOOD DROPS ON THE REAR DRIVEWAY?

A: YES, SO HE WOULDN'T STEP IN IT.

Q: AND DID YOU -- HOW LONG DID YOU STAY OUT THERE IN THE REAR AREA, REAR ALLEY?

A: I WOULD ESTIMATE TILL 5:30, AROUND 5:30, AND THEN WE WENT TO THE FRONT.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO IN THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

A: WE OPENED BUNDY UP TO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. SO WE JUST -- ALL WE HAD WAS A CRIME SCENE FROM THE HOUSE NORTH, NICOLE'S HOUSE, AND THE HOUSE SOUTH, AND WE JUST MAINTAINED -- WE SAT IN FRONT OF THAT CRIME SCENE.

Q: OKAY. SO WAS ANYONE ALLOWED TO WALK ON THE SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: NO.

Q: WAS ANYONE ALLOWED TO WALK ON THE WALKWAY AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: NO.

Q: SO WHERE DID YOU STAND IN FRONT OF THE LOCATION, SIR?

A: WE ACTUALLY MOVED OUR VEHICLE AND PARKED IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE -- IN FRONT OF 875 SO THE WALKWAY WASN'T VISIBLE FROM THE STREET.

Q: SO YOU BLOCKED THE VIEW?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WERE YOU SEATED IN YOUR CAR OR STANDING OUTSIDE OF IT?

A: SEATED, STANDING. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Q: WAS THAT DONE INTENTIONALLY, BLOCKING THE VIEW OF THE WALKWAY, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WHY?

A: SO WE DIDN'T WANT PASSERSBY TO LOOK DOWN THERE AND SEE WHAT IT WAS, TRYING TO KEEP THE MEDIA OUT.

Q: AND BY THE TIME YOU CAME AROUND TO THE FRONT, WAS IT STARTING TO GET LIGHT?

A: NO. IT WAS --

Q: STILL DARK?

A: STILL DARK.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO OUT FRONT?

A: LIKE I SAID, MAINTAINED SECURITY OF THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: AT SOME POINT, A PHOTOGRAPHER ARRIVED?

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. HE SAID THE PHOTOGRAPHER WAS ALREADY THERE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU HAVE CONTACT WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHER IN THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WAS IT DAYLIGHT BY THEN?

A: I HAD TALKED TO HIM EARLIER, BUT HE HADN'T TAKEN ANY PICTURES OF THE FRONT WHILE I WAS THERE. THEN HE CAME -- IT WAS JUST STARTING TO GET DAYLIGHT, AND HE CAME AND HE TOOK A COUPLE PICTURES.

Q: NOW, WAS THIS THE SAME PHOTOGRAPHER YOU HAD CONTACTED EARLIER AT THE REAR OF THE LOCATION, THE REAR ALLEY?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: WHEN HE CAME TO THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION AND IT WAS LIGHTER, DID YOU POINT ANYTHING OUT TO HIM?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU SEE HIM TAKING PICTURES IN THAT FRONT AREA?

A: I SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. HE WAS SHOWING HIM THE GLOVE AND HE TOOK A PICTURE OF THE GLOVE.

Q: OKAY. HE WAS POINTING TO IT?

A: I BELIEVE HE LIFTED UP THE LEAVES AND THE PLANTS SO HE COULD SEE IT BETTER AND HE TOOK A PICTURE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MS. CLARK AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)

MS. CLARK: THE FEED IS CUT, YOUR HONOR? I AM SORRY. I FORGOT THE FEED WAS EVER ON AGAIN.

THE COURT: WELL, I ASSUME SOMEBODY UPSTAIRS CAUGHT THAT.

MS. CLARK: THIS HAS NOT BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED I THINK. SO WE SHOULD MARK IT AS PEOPLE'S 54? 5? THANK YOU.

(PEO'S 55 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PERSON IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHO IS THAT?

A: IT'S DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND THE VICTIM.

Q: AND WHAT'S HE POINTING TO?

A: HE'S POINTING TO THE GLOVE.

Q: THE GLOVE AND THE CAP?

A: THE CAP.

Q: THE ONES THAT YOU SAW WHEN YOU ARRIVED SHORTLY AFTER MIDNIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO -- LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING. WHAT'S HE WEARING THERE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: LOOKS LIKE WHITE SUIT SHIRT, PAIR OF SLACKS.

Q: NO JACKET?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, IN THAT PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH, YOU HAD SAID THAT THE LEAVES OF THE PLANT KIND OF HUNG OVER THAT ONE GLOVE AND THE SKI CAP?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THAT ACTUALLY YOU HAD TO LEFT IT UP TO SEE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: NOW, AT THIS POINT, THE LEAVES ARE NOT LIFTED UP; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: I BELIEVE THAT'S HIS LEFT HAND HOLDING THE LEAVES BACK AND HIS RIGHT HAND POINTING TO THE --

MS. CLARK: PULL BACK A LITTLE BIT, JONATHAN.

THE WITNESS: OH, NEVER MIND. THAT'S THE SHOE OF THE VICTIM?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: THE SHOE OF THE VICTIM. SO HE'S JUST POINTING TO IT WITH HIS RIGHT HAND?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU WERE RELIEVED FROM THIS CRIME SCENE?

A: 7:15.

Q: AT 7:15?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND HOW -- IN RELATIONSHIP TO THAT TIME THAT YOU LEFT THE CRIME SCENE, WHEN DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN APPEAR AND POINT THINGS OUT TO THE PHOTOGRAPHER?

A: I WOULD SAY WITHIN 40 MINUTES. I'M NOT REALLY SURE. WITHIN AN HOUR.

Q: SO IT WAS SHORTLY BEFORE YOU LEFT --

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: -- THE CRIME SCENE COMPLETELY?

A: RIGHT.

THE COURT: DO YOU NEED THIS PHOTO ANYMORE?

MS. CLARK: NO, THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, BETWEEN THE -- WERE YOU EVER AWARE THAT DETECTIVES LEFT THE BUNDY LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU INDICATED THAT I BELIEVE THAT YOU SAW DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM AND THEN YOU WENT OUTSIDE AND STAYED IN BACK.

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU -- WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE DETECTIVES LEFT FOR ANOTHER LOCATION?

A: IN THE FRONT.

Q: AND AT THAT POINT, SIR, YOU HAD ALREADY COME AROUND TO THE FRONT, YOU WERE STANDING GUARD THERE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. REFOUNDATIONAL I ASSUME.

MS. CLARK: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, HOW LONG DID YOU STAY IN THE REAR AREA?

A: MAYBE -- MAYBE AN HOUR, AN HOUR AND A HALF.

Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE DOING THAT, WERE OTHER PEOPLE GUARDING THE FRONT AREA?

A: AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Q: WHEN YOU LEFT THE REAR AREA TO GO TO THE FRONT, DID SOMEONE RELIEVE YOU AND MAINTAIN THE GUARD IN THE BACK?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE STANDING IN FRONT, IS THAT WHEN THE DETECTIVES LEFT FOR ANOTHER LOCATION?

A: YES. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ACTUALLY APPROACHED ME, GAVE ME A CELLULAR PHONE AND SAID THEY WERE GOING TO THE -- ROCKINGHAM. THEY ASKED ME DIRECTIONS TO GET THERE.

Q: AND DID YOU ASSIST THEM BY GIVING DIRECTIONS?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT LOCATION?

A: YES. THAT AREA, NOT THAT LOCATION.

Q: YOU MEAN THE BRENTWOOD AREA UP NORTH OF SUNSET?

A: YEAH.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER AT THIS TIME.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY.

THE COURT: YOU WANT TO START NOW?

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I THINK WE MIGHT AS WELL USE EVERY MINUTE.

THE COURT: EVERY PRECIOUS MINUTE.

MR. COCHRAN: EVERY PRECIOUS MINUTE WE USE, YOUR HONOR.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: I'LL STILL SAY GOOD MORNING, MR. RISKE.

A: GOOD MORNING, SIR.

Q: YOU HAD BEEN A POLICE OFFICER FOR HOW LONG ON JUNE 12TH, 1994 WHEN YOU RESPONDED TO THIS LOCATION?

A: UMM, FOUR YEARS, ALMOST TWO MONTHS.

Q: FOUR YEARS, TWO MONTHS AT THAT TIME?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND YOUR PARTNER OFFICER WAS OFFICER TERRAZAS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND AS BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU, WHO WAS THE SENIOR OFFICER?

A: I WAS.

Q: AND HE HAD BEEN THERE LESS THAN YOU HAD, LESS TIME THAN YOU HAD, LAPD?

A: YES. I BELIEVE HE HAD SEVEN MONTHS IN THE STREET, SIX MONTHS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAD WORKED THE ENTIRE FOUR-YEAR PERIOD OF TIME IN THE WEST LOS ANGELES AREA; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

A: NO, SIR.

Q: WHERE HAD YOU STARTED WORKING WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED?

A: CENTRAL.

Q: DOWNTOWN?

A: DOWNTOWN.

Q: AND HOW LONG PRIOR TO JUNE 12TH, 1994 HAD YOU BEEN AT -- IN WEST LOS ANGELES?

A: TWO YEARS, EIGHT MONTHS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO THAT WE GET THE CHRONOLOGY OF HIERARCHY THERE, YOU WERE A PATROL PERSON; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHO WAS YOUR IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR?

A: THAT NIGHT?

Q: ON THAT NIGHT.

A: SERGEANT COON WAS THE FIELD SUPERVISOR.

Q: SERGEANT COON?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND HE'S NO RELATION TO THE OTHER SERGEANT COON.

A: NOT AS FAR AS I KNOW.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AS FAR AS YOU KNOW; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND ABOVE SERGEANT COON, WHO CAME NEXT?

A: WATCH COMMANDER WAS SERGEANT ROSSI.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HE AT SOME POINT RESPONDED TO THE LOCATION?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND ABOVE SERGEANT ROSSI WAS WHOM?

A: JUST -- THAT WAS IT. AREA COMMANDER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT ABOUT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER? HOW DID HE FIT IN THE HIERARCHY?

A: LIEUTENANT SPANGLER IS A LIEUTENANT OF DETECTIVES OF WEST L.A.

Q: SO HE WOULD BE ABOVE ROSSI?

A: HE'S ACTUALLY ABOVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO AS I UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS, YOU AS THE RESPONDING PATROL OFFICER WORKED AT THAT SCENE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE DETECTIVES RESPONDED?

A: RIGHT. UNTIL THEY TAKE IT OVER.

Q: AND THE DETECTIVES, WHEN THEY RESPONDED, THAT WAS MARK FUHRMAN AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND IT'S YOUR RECOLLECTION THEY GOT THERE AROUND 2:30 IN THE MORNING; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME THEY GOT THERE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK MENTIONED TO YOU IT WAS ABOUT TWO HOURS OR SO AFTER YOU ARRIVED.

A: RIGHT.

Q: YOU DON'T QUARREL WITH THAT THOUGH, DO YOU?

A: I WOULD ONLY BE GUESSING, SIR. I DON'T KNOW. I DIDN'T HAVE THE CRIME SCENE LOG.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND IF YOU WERE TO SEE A LOG OF WHEN THE OFFICERS GOT THERE, THAT WOULD REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION, WOULD IT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: NOW, LET'S START WITH YOU. YOU ARRIVED THERE AT ABOUT 12:13 A.M.; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU ARRIVED THERE WITHIN FOUR MINUTES OF THE TIME THAT YOU RECEIVED THIS 459 PROWLER CALL AT MISS ELSIE TISTAERT'S RESIDENCE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE, YOU AND YOUR PARTNER, OFFICER TERRAZAS, WERE THE FIRST OFFICERS THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: NOW, YOU DESCRIBED FOR MISS CLARK THAT WHEN YOU WERE AT THE LOS ANGELES POLICE ACADEMY, THAT THEY KIND OF GLOSSED OVER THIS CRIME SCENE MAINTENANCE AND TRAINING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND MUCH OF WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED, YOU LEARNED ACTUALLY ON THE JOB ONCE YOU ACTUALLY GOT IN THE FIELD; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: HAVE YOU HAD ANY TRAINING IN THE SENSITIVITY OF DNA?

A: NO.

Q: HAD ANY TRAINING WITH REGARD TO POLYMERASE CHAIN REACTION OR SO CALLED PCR?

A: NO.

Q: HAD NONE OF THAT AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW -- BY THE WAY, WITH REGARD TO THIS CRIME SCENE, FROM THE TIME THAT YOU ARRIVED THERE AT 12:13 TO THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT AT WHAT, 7:15?

A: THAT IS CORRECT.

Q: SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, YOU THEN STAYED THERE APPROXIMATELY SEVEN HOURS; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY OFFICERS OUT THERE WITH A VIDEOTAPE MACHINE OR A VIDEOTAPE CAMERA VIDEOTAPING THIS ENTIRE SCENE?

A: NO.

Q: YOU NEVER SAW ANYBODY WITH A VIDEOTAPE AT THAT TIME?

A: NOT THAT I RECALL.

Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

A: NOT THAT I RECALL.

Q: YOU DID IN FACT, HOWEVER, SEE A PHOTOGRAPHER AT SOME POINT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THE PHOTOGRAPHER THAT YOU SAW, WHAT WAS HIS NAME?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: ROKAHR? IF I USED THE NAME ROKAHR, WOULD THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?

A: IT WOULDN'T BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW HIS NAME?

A: I NEVER --

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT TIME DID YOU FIRST SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPHER, SIR?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I WENT TO THE FRONT AFTER SEARCHING THE ALLEY AND I THINK HE WAS THERE. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: LET'S BACK UP FOR A MOMENT. YOU RECALL SEEING HIM AT THE REAR --

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: -- OF THE ALLEY TAKING SOME PICTURES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THIS WAS AFTER THE DETECTIVES HAD ARRIVED AT ABOUT 2:00, 2:30; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: SO WHATEVER PICTURES AND WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS ON THE DIRECTION OF THE DETECTIVES WHO HAD NOW TAKEN OVER THE SCENE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: YOU DID NOT GIVE HIM ANY DIRECTIONS AS TO WHAT TO TAKE. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY THE DETECTIVES; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: NO. I JUST POINTED OUT BLOOD SO HE DIDN'T STEP IN IT OR DISTURB ANY EVIDENCE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU EVER AT ANY TIME SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPHER TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THE INTERIOR OF THE RESIDENCE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM TAKE PICTURES OF THESE CANDLES THAT YOU DESCRIBED?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THIS ICE CREAM, THIS MELTING ICE CREAM THAT YOU DESCRIBED IN YOUR REPORT?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

MR. COCHRAN: I'M ASKING IF HE EVER SAW IT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THIS MELTIN