DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER.

MR. DARDEN: CAN WE APPROACH THE SIDE BAR WITHOUT THE REPORTER?

THE COURT: SURE.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL THE PARTIES ARE PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO DISCUSS BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US?

MR. COCHRAN: AT THE END OF THE DAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DEPUTY MAGNERA, LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. HAVE A SEAT. ALL RIGHT. GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

THE COURT: WE ARE ACTUALLY GETTING AN ALMOST TIMELY START THIS MORNING. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR. GOOD MORNING.

THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.

MS. CLARK: THE PEOPLE CALL OFFICER ROBERT RISKE.

THE COURT: WHERE IS MR. RISKE?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: ELEVATOR PROBLEMS, YOUR HONOR. ON HIS WAY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK. MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. I'M SORRY.

ROBERT RISKE, CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. YOU DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.

THE WITNESS: I DO.

THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.

THE WITNESS: IT IS ROBERT RISKE, R-O-B-E-R-T R-I-S-K-E.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. CLARK:

Q: GOOD MORNING, OFFICER.

A: GOOD MORNING.

Q: CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING?

A: I'M A POLICE OFFICER FOR THE RECORD THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES.

Q: WHERE ARE YOU ASSIGNED, SIR?

A: WEST L.A.

Q: AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN SO ASSIGNED?

A: I HAVE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER FOR FOUR YEARS AND TEN MONTHS. I HAVE BEEN AT WEST L.A. THREE YEARS AND SIX MONTHS.

Q: AND IN YOUR CAPACITY AS A POLICE OFFICER AT THE WEST L.A. DIVISION WHAT ARE YOUR DUTIES?

A: I'M ASSIGNED TO PATROL. WE RESPOND TO RADIO CALLS, TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT AND CRIME PREVENTION, BASICALLY.

Q: DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOU ARE IN A BLACK AND WHITE CAR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND YOU PATROL THE AREA OF WEST L.A.?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THAT AREA THAT YOU PATROL, DOES THAT ENCOMPASS 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES.

Q: PRIOR TO BECOMING A POLICE OFFICER WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I WAS IN THE NAVY FOR SIX AND A HALF YEARS.

Q: AND THEN DID YOU TRAIN TO BECOME A POLICE OFFICER?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR TRAINING?

A: SIX MONTHS IN THE LOS ANGELES POLICE ACADEMY, DID A YEAR OF PROBATION.

Q: IN THE COURSE OF YOUR TRAINING, SIR, AT THE ACADEMY, WERE YOU TRAINED IN CRIME SCENE PRESERVATION?

A: THEY KIND OF GLOSS OVER IT; THEY DON'T REALLY TRAIN YOU.

Q: DID YOU LEARN IT AT SOME POINT IN YOUR DUTIES?

A: ON-THE-JOB TRAINING.

Q: ON-THE-JOB TRAINING?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: MEANING WHAT?

A: MEANING WHEN YOU ARE ON PROBATION YOU ARE ASSIGNED TO A TRAINING OFFICER. WHEN YOU GO TO A CRIME SCENE THEY TELL YOU WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO AND YOU DO IT; IDENTIFICATION, PRESERVATION OF EVIDENCE, SETTING UP THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: IN THE COURSE OF YOUR DUTIES IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS AND TEN MONTHS, HOW MANY CRIME SCENES HAVE YOU HAD TO PROTECT OR PRESERVE?

A: I WOULD ONLY BE ESTIMATING; TWENTY.

Q: AND HOW MANY OF THOSE INVOLVED HOMICIDES?

A: PROBABLY MORE THAN HALF; FIFTEEN.

Q: NOW, AS OF JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994, YOU WERE ASSIGNED TO PATROL FOR THE WEST L.A. DIVISION?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AT APPROXIMATELY 12:09 A.M. DID YOU RECEIVE A CALL DIRECTING YOU TO THAT GENERAL LOCATION?

A: TO 874 SOUTH BUNDY, YES.

Q: WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF THE CALL THAT SENT YOU TO 874 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: IT CAME OUT AS A BURGLARY SUSPECT AND THE STATEMENTS OF THE CALL SAID IT WAS UNKNOWN PERSON KNOCKING ON THE VICTIM'S DOOR.

Q: AND RINGING THE DOORBELL?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND IN RESPONSE TO THAT PARTICULAR CALL DID YOU GO TO THE LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: TELL US WHAT HAPPENED.

A: AS WE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE WE WERE FLAGGED DOWN BY TWO WITNESSES AND A DOG. THEY DIRECTED US TO 875 AND THEY SAID THERE WAS A DEAD LADY ON THE WALKWAY.

Q: TWO WITNESSES? WERE THEY MEN, WOMEN?

A: IT WAS A MALE AND A FEMALE.

Q: AND THEY HAD A DOG WITH THEM?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: WHAT DID THAT DOG LOOK LIKE?

A: IT WAS WHITE AND PROBABLY TWO AND A HALF THREE FEET TALL.

Q: DID THEY HAVE IT ON A LEASH?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION ON THIS SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 40, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: THAT LOOKS LIKE THE DOG THAT THE WITNESSES HAD.

Q: AND THEY WERE STANDING WHERE IN RELATION TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY WHEN YOU SAW THEM?

A: WHEN WE APPROACHED THEY WERE COMING DOWN A DRIVEWAY OF 868 SOUTH BUNDY.

Q: WAS THAT ON THE SAME SIDE OR THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STREET?

A: IT WAS ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STREET AS 874.

Q: AS 874?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: IS THAT ACROSS THE STREET FROM 875?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU GOT THERE AND MADE CONTACT WITH THAT COUPLE WITH THE DOG?

A: 12:13 A.M.

Q: AND THEY TOLD YOU THEY HAD SEEN A DEAD WOMAN IN FRONT OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND AFTER THEY TOLD YOU THAT, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: MY PARTNER AND I CROSSED THE STREET AND WENT TO THE WALKWAY AND WHAT I OBSERVED A FEMALE WHITE IN A BLACK DRESS LAYING IN A PUDDLE OF BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY.

MS. CLARK: CAN I HAVE 38.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: CUT THE FEED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: I'M SORRY?

MS. CLARK: CUT THE FEED, PLEASE.

THE COURT: GOT IT.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR, SIR, AND TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES. THAT IS WHAT WE SAW WHEN WE APPROACHED.

Q: NOW, IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE DESCRIBE FOR ME, WHEN YOU APPROACHED THAT LOCATION, THAT PARTICULAR WALKWAY, COULD YOU TELL US WHAT WAS THE LIGHTING LIKE THERE?

A: IT WAS VERY DARK.

Q: SO IF YOU WERE NOT SPECIFICALLY LOOKING UP THAT WALKWAY WOULD YOU HAVE SEEN THE BLOOD, THE BODY OR ANYTHING ELSE?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US, SIR?

MR. COCHRAN: EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. I'M SORRY. MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR? I HAVE A QUESTION WITH REGARD TO THE MONITOR, WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE AND WHAT WE SEE UP HERE. MAY WHAT I APPROACH?

THE COURT: SURE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

MR. COCHRAN: SORRY. I MAY HAVE RESOLVED THIS. ON THE MONITOR IT LOOKS A LOT CLEARER AND MORE WELL-LIT AND IT MAY BE BECAUSE THAT IS A PARABOLIC SCENE.

THE COURT: GO STAND OVER BY THE JURY AND SEE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

MR. COCHRAN: WE CAN DO THAT. THAT MIGHT RESOLVE IT.

THE COURT: YES.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: WHILE WE ARE HERE, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK ANOTHER QUESTION. WITH RESPECT TO WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO SEE AND NOT TO SEE, WITHOUT IT GETTING INTO AREAS OF SPECULATION, YOUR HONOR, COULDN'T THE OFFICER TESTIFY THAT THE DARKNESS AND THE NATURE OF THE LIGHTING IN THE AREA PRECLUDED HIM FROM SEEING ANYTHING UNTIL HE DIRECTED HIS ATTENTION TO THAT SPECIFIC LOCATION? I DON'T THINK THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: YOU CAN ASK HIM QUESTIONS WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE IT WITHOUT THE AID OF YOUR FLASHLIGHT OR WHATEVER. YOU CAN ASK HIM OTHER QUESTIONS FROM WHICH INFERENCES CAN BE DRAWN, BUT TO ASK HIM CONCLUSIONS BASED ON SPECULATION, THAT IS SOMETHING ELSE.

MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WHILE WE ARE UP HERE, SO WE CAN SAVE SOME TIME AND CUT THESE DOWN, DO YOU WANT TO GET THAT CHART SO WE WON'T WASTE SOME TIME?

MS. CLARK: WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT THE SCREEN.

MR. COCHRAN: WHY DON'T YOU BRING IT AROUND THIS WAY.

THE COURT: LET'S ALL GO LOOK.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. LET'S ALL LOOK.

MS. CLARK: WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SEE?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT COUNSEL ARE GOING OVER TO EXAMINE THE VIEW FROM THE JURY BOX.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: YES. IT IS BECAUSE IT IS LIKE A PARABOLIC SCREEN. FROM THEIR ANGEL THEY CAN SEE IT MUCH BETTER. WHEN WE ARE LOOKING IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS INTENTIONALLY DARK. WE HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO TALK ABOUT ANYWAY, SO WE CAN SAVE SOME TIME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: OKAY. I BROUGHT AN ADDITIONAL BOARD SO I COULD COVER IT.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: SURE. BY THE WAY, YOU REMEMBER THE VICTIM BOARD. YOU ALREADY LOOKED AT THAT ONE. OKAY. THAT IS GOING TO BE USED FOR A DIFFERENT PURPOSE. REMEMBER?

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. WE SAW THIS.

MS. CLARK: I DIDN'T KNOW WE CHANGED IT.

MR. COCHRAN: YOU CHANGED SOMETHING.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT COUNSEL ARE OBSERVING TWO BOARDS.

MS. CLARK: SO THIS IS THE ONE YOU WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, RIGHT?

MR. COCHRAN: THIS WAS A NEW BOARD FROM YESTERDAY.

MS. CLARK: RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: AND I WAS -- I JUST SAW THIS AND I ASKED IF WE COULD SEE IT BEFORE --

MR. SHAPIRO: EXCUSE ME.

MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS A BRIGHT LIGHT DOWN HERE. EXCUSE ME.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: REFLECTION THERE.

THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO SHOW TO IT YOUR CLIENT?

MR. COCHRAN: JUDGE, I JUST HAD SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT. I MEAN, THERE IS -- THERE SEEMS TO BE TWO OF EVERYTHING AND WHEN I FIRST SAW THESE, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF THEY ARE GOING TO USE EITHER ONE OF THOSE TWO, IF THEY ARE PROBATIVE, YOU DON'T NEED BOTH OF THEM, AND THE SAME THING WITH MR. GOLDMAN. ONE IS A CLOSE UP SHOT THAN THE OTHER ONE. IT SEEMS TO BE -- HALF OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS SEEMS LIKE THEY OUGHT TO BE ENOUGH. YOU KNOW, THESE ARE PRETTY GRUESOME PICTURES.

THE COURT: WELL, HERE IS THE PROBLEM, THOUGH, MR. COCHRAN: EACH ONE OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS SHOWS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW AND ANGLE. FOR EXAMPLE, GOING FROM TOP TO -- TO THE TOP ROW GOING FROM LEFT TO RIGHT --

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

THE COURT: -- THE ONE ON THE FAR LEFT SHOWS THE -- WHAT APPEARS TO BE DOG PAW MARKS IN BLOOD AT THE SIDEWALK WHERE THE WALKWAY COME OUT TO THE SIDEWALK. THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH IN THE CENTER TOP ROW APPEARS TO DEPICT THE LONG PERSPECTIVE. THE THIRD PHOTOGRAPH ON THE TOP ROW APPEARS TO DEPICT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON IN RELATION TO THE STEPS AND THEN THE GATE AND THE FENCE. ON THE BOTTOM ROW ON THE FAR LEFT IT SHOWS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, BUT ALSO HER PROXIMITY TO THE ENVELOPE WHICH CONTAINS THE GLASSES. AND THEN THE MIDDLE PHOTOGRAPH BOTTOM ROW SHOWS THE ENVELOPE AND ITS PROXIMITY TO RONALD GOLDMAN. AND THEN THE SIXTH PHOTOGRAPH BOTTOM ROW ON THE FAR RIGHT SHOWS RONALD GOLDMAN IN A MORE CLOSE-UP NATURE, AND I THINK THAT THAT'S -- EACH ONE OF THESE TELLS US A DIFFERENT STORY, SO THEY ARE NOT CUMULATIVE.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. IN REGARD TO THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, YOUR HONOR, OBVIOUSLY WE WILL CUT THE FEED WHEN WE GET TO THIS POINT?

MS. CLARK: I THINK WE OUGHT TO HAVE THE FEED CUT PERIOD WITH THIS WITNESS BECAUSE THAT IS ALL WE ARE GOING TO BE DOING. HE'S THE FIRST OFFICER ON THE SCENE.

THE COURT: UH-HUH.

MS. CLARK: IF YOU WANT, YOUR HONOR, I WILL TELL THE COURT WHEN THERE IS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT, BUT THE FEED DOESN'T NEED TO BE CUT FOR IT, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW.

THE COURT: UH-HUH.

MR. COCHRAN: UNLESS CROSS-EXAMINATION --

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, CAN WE KILL THE PICTURE THAT HAS BEEN UP THERE? IT HAS BEEN UP THERE FOR A REALLY LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

THE COURT: OKAY.

MS. CLARK: SURE. (BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER COMMENT?

MR. COCHRAN: NO. I THINK THAT HE -- YEAH. IF WE ARE GOING TO CUT THE FEED DURING THIS PORTION, I WOULD ALSO LIKE YOU TO DO IT ON CROSS-EXAMINATION, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IF THEY ARE GOING TO GO INTO THIS, I'VE GOT TO CROSS-EXAMINE RISKE ON THE SAME THING.

THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND. ALL RIGHT.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, ARE YOU GOING TO MARK THAT NEXT BOARD?

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO. 43?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. SO THERE IS NO MISUNDERSTANDING, MR. CRAWFORD, MR. CRAWFORD, NO VIDEO OF THIS PARTICULAR BOARD DEPICTING THE VICTIM'S BODIES. STILL PHOTOGRAPHERS, NO PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE DISPLAYS OF THE VICTIM'S BODIES. THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: WHEN YOU APPROACHED THIS AREA, CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE LIGHTING FOR US, SIR?

A: THERE IS -- THERE IS REALLY NO STREET LIGHTING. THERE IS OVERHANGING TREES OVER THE WALKWAY. THERE WAS LIGHTS ON IN THE RESIDENCE, BUT THERE IS A FENCE THAT GOES IN FRONT OF THE WINDOWS, SO THE LIGHTING WAS POOR.

Q: SO -- I'M SORRY?

A: THE LIGHTING WAS VERY POOR.

Q: AND WAS THERE A LOT OF FOLIAGE, A LOT OF BUSHES AND TREES IN THAT AREA?

A: YES.

Q: SO WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED THE WALKWAY OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY, AS YOU APPROACHED IT, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY GOT THERE AND ACTUALLY LOOKED UP THE WALKWAY?

A: IT ACTUALLY TOOK US A COUPLE SECONDS TO FIND THE BODY, IT WAS SO DARK.

MR. COCHRAN: NONRESPONSIVE, YOUR HONOR. THE QUESTION WAS DID HE SEE ANY BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE ANSWER IS STRICKEN.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: FIRST OF ALL, AS YOU APPROACHED THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY STOPPED AND LOOKED UP THE WALKWAY ITSELF?

A: NO.

Q: WERE YOU -- HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT FOR YOU TO SEE THE BODY AS YOU APPROACHED THAT LOCATION?

A: WE -- ACTUALLY WHEN WE FIRST WENT, WE WENT TO THE -- WE WERE LOOKING ON THE GRASS AND THE WITNESSES DIRECTED US TO THE WALKWAY, SO WE DIDN'T SEE IT AT ALL UNTIL WE WERE DIRECTED BY THE WITNESSES.

Q: OKAY. SO UNTIL SOMEBODY ACTUALLY POINTED IT OUT TO YOU, YOU DIDN'T SEE A BODY?

A: RIGHT.

Q: OR BLOOD ON THE WALKWAY?

A: RIGHT.

Q: NOW, DID YOU HAVE A FLASHLIGHT WITH YOU?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU TURN THAT FLASHLIGHT ON?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU TURNED ON YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: STANDING ON THE SIDEWALK AT THE FOOT OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: SO BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY WENT UP THE WALKWAY OR WENT ANYWHERE NEAR THAT SCENE, YOU TURNED ON THE FLASHLIGHT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: AND CAN YOU SEE ON THE MONITOR, SIR? DO YOU SEE WHERE THAT ARROW IS?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU SEE WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS AS THE ARROW -- MOVE IT DOWN, JOHN. THANKS. IS THE ARROW NOW POINTING TO WHERE THE SIDEWALK IS BEFORE THE WALKWAY BEGINS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU STOP AND TURN ON YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: I WAS ACTUALLY TO THE LEFT OF THE ARROW.

Q: OKAY.

A: RIGHT WHERE THE FOLIAGE IS BY THE SIDEWALK.

MS. CLARK: CAN WE MOVE THE ARROW OVER TO THE LEFT?

THE WITNESS: RIGHT ABOUT THERE.

MS. CLARK: RIGHT THERE? THANK YOU.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO WHEN YOU STOOD THERE WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: JUST TURNED THE FLASHLIGHT ON AND SAW THE BODY AND WENT BACK AND WALKED TO THE -- REQUESTED A SUPERVISOR, ADDITIONAL UNITS AND AN AMBULANCE AND THEN WE WENT BACK AND TALKED TO THE WITNESSES.

Q: OKAY. SO AFTER YOU SAW THE BODY, YOU LEFT THE SCENE FOR A MOMENT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID WHAT?

A: WENT BACK AND TALKED TO THE WITNESSES TO FIND OUT HOW THEY FOUND THE BODY AND BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED.

Q: AND BY "THE WITNESSES" YOU MEAN THOSE TWO PEOPLE WITH THE DOG?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID THEY TELL YOU HOW THEY FOUND THE DOG?

A: THEY TOLD ME THAT --

MR. COCHRAN: ANSWER THAT YES OR NO.

THE COURT: CORRECT. DID THEY TELL YOU? YES OR NO?

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND DID THEY TELL YOU HOW THEY HAPPENED TO GET TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU LOOK AT THE DOG?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT IT?

A: THERE WAS BLOOD ON HIS LEGS AND ON HIS PAWS.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE HOW FAR UP THE LEGS THE BLOOD WENT ON THE DOG?

A: I BELIEVE ON THE REAR LEG IT WENT UP APPROXIMATELY TO HIS KNEES, JUST STREAKS.

Q: STREAKS OF IT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: WE WENT BACK TO THE SCENE, WE APPROACHED THE BODY OF THE FEMALE, AND AS WE GOT PROBABLY TWO FEET FROM HER BODY, WE DISCOVERED THE BODY OF A MALE WHITE LAYING AGAINST THE NORTH FENCE.

Q: OKAY. HOW DID YOU -- HOW DID YOU GET UP TO THE WOMAN'S BODY? WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: MY PARTNER APPROACHED ON THE GRASS AND I APPROACHED WALKING THROUGH THE PLANTS RIGHT THERE, STAYING TO --

Q: THESE BUSHES HERE ON THE LEFT, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT. STAYING TO THE LEFT OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: AND YOUR PARTNER, WHERE WAS HE?

A: HE WAS ON THE GRASS TO THE LEFT OF THE FOLIAGE. YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IN THIS PICTURE.

Q: SO YOU WERE IN THE BUSHES AND HE WAS TO THE LEFT OF YOU AS WE FACE THE PHOTOGRAPH?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU STEPPED ON THE WALKWAY?

A: NO.

Q: OFFICER, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO LOOK AT THE MONITOR NOW. IS THIS APPROXIMATELY WHERE YOU STARTED WALKING?

A: A LITTLE BIT TO THE RIGHT. RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: OVER THERE, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT ABOUT THERE, (INDICATING). RIGHT ABOUT THERE.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU WALK THROUGH THE BUSHES LIKE THIS, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT.

Q: TELL ME WHEN TO STOP.

A: IT IS REALLY A POOR ANGLE. I CAN'T SEE WHERE I STOPPED. IT WAS BEFORE THE BODY, BEFORE THE FENCE.

Q: OKAY. SO WE ARE GOING TO SAY APPROXIMATELY HERE, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE DRAWN A HORIZONTAL LINE PERPENDICULAR TO THE VERTICAL LINE DEPICTING HIS PATH THROUGH THE BUSHES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: YES. AND YOU ARE DRAWING ON PEOPLE'S 42.

MS. CLARK: YES. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

MR. COCHRAN: IS THIS 43, YOUR HONOR?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN YOU STOOD ON THAT LOCATION, YOU HAD YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: OH, YEAH.

Q: WHAT KIND OF FLASHLIGHT DO YOU HAVE?

A: I HAVE A STREAMLINE, LONG BLACK METAL.

Q: LONG BLACK METAL LIGHT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: IT IS VERY POWERFUL?

A: I THINK IT IS RATED AT 30,000 CANDLE POWER. IT IS POWERFUL.

Q: AT THAT POINT, WHEN YOU STOOPED UP AT THE CLOSER LOCATION, YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER VICTIM?

A: RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS, SIR. THIS WILL BE PEOPLE'S 43, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES, PEOPLE'S 43.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

(PEO'S 43 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPHS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IF YOU COULD, CAN YOU SEE FROM WHERE YOU ARE?

A: YES.

Q: IF YOU NEED TO STEP DOWN, GO AHEAD. ALL RIGHT. IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN, FIRST OF ALL, IN THE FIRST PHOTOGRAPH TO MY LEFT AS I FACE IT, UPPER LEFT-HAND PHOTOGRAPH, WHAT DOES THAT DEPICT?

A: THAT IS A SIDEWALK ON THE WEST SIDE OF BUNDY AND THE FOOT OF THE WALKWAY LEADING UP TO 875.

Q: AND DOES THAT DEPICT THE SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH TO THE RIGHT OF THAT?

A: THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH WOULD BE THE VICTIM, THE FEMALE WHITE IN THE BLACK DRESS, LAYING ON THE WALKWAY.

Q: AND YOU COULD SEE THAT -- AT THE FAR -- AT THE VERY REAR OF THE PHOTOGRAPH, UPPER PART OF THE PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THE THIRD ONE?

A: THE THIRD ONE IS THE SAME PICTURE, THE FEMALE WHITE IN THE BLACK DRESS, BUT IT IS JUST CLOSER.

Q: AND NOW THE LOWER LEFT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THE LOWER LEFT IS A PICTURE OF THE FEMALE WHITE IN THE DRESS AND THERE IS AN ENVELOPE ON THE DIRT RIGHT ON THE RIGHT OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: AND THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THE NEXT PHOTOGRAPH IS A -- THE MALE WHITE THAT WE FOUND, ANOTHER PICTURE OF THE ENVELOPE LAYING IN THE DIRT.

Q: THAT ENVELOPE, WAS THAT BETWEEN THE TWO VICTIMS?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THE LAST PHOTOGRAPH IS A CLOSER UP PICTURE OF THE MALE WHITE.

Q: NOW, DO THESE ALL DEPICT THE SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED AT 12:13 A.M.

A: YES.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THAT WALKWAY THAT YOU SEE IN BOTH 42 ON THE SCREEN -- OR IS THAT 38? EXCUSE ME. 38 ON THE SCREEN AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN PEOPLE'S 43, DID YOU ILLUMINATE THAT WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU SEE IN THAT WALKWAY?

A: THERE IS A POOL OF BLOOD UNDER THE VICTIM, THE FEMALE WHITE, AND IT FLOWS DOWN TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK.

Q: AND IN THE BLOOD DID YOU SEE ANY KIND OF PATTERNS?

A: UMM, THERE WAS PAW PRINTS TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK AND THERE WAS A HEEL MARK BY THE FENCE CLOSE TO WHERE THE ENVELOPE IS.

Q: OKAY. IF YOU COULD LOOK AT THE MONITOR, SIR, IT MIGHT BE EASIER FOR YOU ON YOUR MONITOR.

A: OKAY.

Q: DO YOU SEE -- CAN YOU TELL US -- DO YOU SEE THE PAW PRINTS YOU JUST DESCRIBED?

A: YES.

Q: AND AS YOU LOOKED UP THE WALKWAY WALKING THROUGH THE BUSHES, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS ON THAT WALKWAY?

A: NOT UNTIL WE GOT RIGHT BY THE BODY. THERE WAS A HEEL PRINT.

Q: BUT DOWN HERE ON THE WALKWAY THAT IS ACTUALLY OUTSIDE THE GATE, DID YOU SEE ANY SHOEPRINTS?

A: NO.

MS. CLARK: NEXT. NEXT.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, IF I CAN CORRECT YOU, WHICH PHOTOGRAPH WERE YOU REFERRING TO PREVIOUSLY?

MS. CLARK: DID WE MARK THAT?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHICH IS OF THE -- APPEARS TO BE OF THE WALKWAY AND THE SIDEWALK, HAS A WESTEC SIGN IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER, THIS IS ONE OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT IS HERE ON THE CHART.

MS. CLARK: YOU KNOW, YOUR HONOR, WHY DON'T WE MARK IT -- IS THAT 43 OR 42?

THE COURT: THIS IS 43. I WOULD SUGGEST WE -- IS THIS THE UPPER TOP LEFT?

MS. CLARK: (NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.)

THE COURT: HOW ABOUT 43-A THROUGH E.

(PEO'S 43-A THRU 43-E FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPHS)

MS. CLARK: E, THANK YOU. SO THIS IS 43-A. NEXT PHOTOGRAPH. NO, BACK UP. 43-B. AND THE NEXT 43-C.

Q: DOES THIS DEPICT -- DOES THIS DEPICT THE WOMAN AS YOU FOUND HER AND THE SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, CAN YOU SEE AN AREA IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHERE YOU WERE STANDING IN ORDER TO SEE THAT?

A: THE -- TO THE LEFT OF THE BODY YOU SEE A CALL BOX ON THE WALL RIGHT THERE.

Q: YES.

A: THERE WAS A GATE THAT WAS OPENED, AND ON THE LEFT BY THE CALL BOX IS ABOUT A ONE-FOOT LONG FENCE. I WAS STANDING RIGHT BY THE FENCE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THE CALL BOX YOU ARE REFERRING TO, IS THAT RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING)?

A: YES.

THE COURT: CAN YOU JUST PUT AN ARROW ON IT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: YOU WERE STANDING BY THAT CALL BOX?

A: RIGHT, AT THE BASE OF THE FENCE.

Q: AND IT IS HARD TO TELL FROM THIS PHOTOGRAPH, BUT FROM THAT LOCATION YOU WERE THEN ALSO ABLE TO SEE A MALE VICTIM?

A: RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. NEXT.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS 43-D, YOUR HONOR.

Q: NOW, IN THIS -- IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH YOU CAN SEE AN ENVELOPE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT IS ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SCREEN?

A: RIGHT.

Q: UH-HUH. AND THAT WAS LYING BETWEEN THEM?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. ONCE AGAIN, DO YOU SEE THE PAW PRINTS AS YOU SAW THEM THAT NIGHT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED THE SCENE IN THE BLOOD?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. NEXT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT THE ENVELOPE YOU HAVE DESCRIBED?

A: YES, MA'AM.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS WHAT PHOTOGRAPH?

MS. CLARK: THAT WILL BE 43-E. NO, D.

MR. COCHRAN: E.

MS. CLARK: E.

Q: AND THIS IS THE CONDITION IN WHICH YOU FOUND THE PLACEMENT OF EVERYTHING WHEN YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOU FIRST APPROACHED?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT, SIR. NOW, AS YOU MADE THAT APPROACH YOU WERE MAKING THESE OBSERVATIONS, YOU WERE STANDING IN THE BUSHES THAT WAS NEAR THE CALL BOX YOU SHOWED US?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, YOU SAID THAT YOU SAW A BLOODY SHOEPRINT UP NEAR THE BODY OF THE VICTIMS. CAN YOU SEE THAT IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: NOT REALLY. IT IS KIND OF A BAD PICTURE.

Q: UH-HUH. I THINK WE DO HAVE A BETTER ONE. THE SHOEPRINT THAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING, WAS IT NEAR THE ENVELOPE?

A: RIGHT, JUST -- JUST -- IT WOULD BE WEST OF THE ENVELOPE.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. LET'S GET THE OTHER ONE.

THE WITNESS: I CAN SEE IT IN AN ENLARGEMENT.

MS. CLARK: THERE WE GO.

Q: CAN YOU LOOK AT MONITOR? CAN YOU SEE IT NOW?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US, AS YOU FACE THE SCREEN, IS IT NEAR THE LEFT CORNER OF THE ENVELOPE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

THE COURT: WHICH PHOTOGRAPH IS THIS?

MS. CLARK: AND THIS PHOTOGRAPH IS STILL THE SAME ONE, YOUR HONOR. WE ARE JUST FOCUSING ON IT. IT IS A CLOSE-UP.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 43-E.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: TELL ME IF I AM POINTING TO THE RIGHT LOCATION, SIR.

A: YOU ARE TOO HIGH. RIGHT THERE (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER YOU MADE THESE OBSERVATIONS, SIR, AND YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE -- AT THAT TIME TELL US WHAT YOU SAW.

A: I SAW THE ENVELOPE THERE, THE HEEL PRINT. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURE CLOSELY, THERE IS A GLOVE AND WHAT APPEARS TO BE A KNIT CAP UNDER THE PLANT ON THE RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. LET ME GET YOU A BETTER PICTURE OF THAT.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, PERHAPS YOU SHOULD HAVE HIM PUT AN ARROW WHERE HE SAYS THERE IS A CAP.

MS. CLARK: WE ARE I THINK GOING TO USE A PHOTOGRAPH THAT SHOWS THAT AREA A LITTLE BETTER, YOUR HONOR, OR IF YOU THINK WE SHOULD, WE WILL DO IT ON THIS ONE.

THE COURT: WELL, IT IS NOT APPARENT TO ME.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: UNDER THIS PLANT, SIR?

A: RIGHT. THAT WOULD BE THE GLOVE RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).

Q: THAT WE ARE POINTING TO RIGHT NOW?

A: YES.

Q: YOU SAID THERE WAS A HAT SOMEWHERE?

A: THE VERY LOWER RIGHT CORNER YOU SEE PART OF THE HAT, WHAT APPEARS TO BE A KNIT CAP.

Q: DOWN HERE, (INDICATING)?

A: RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE GOING TO GET A CLOSER PHOTOGRAPH OF THAT LOCATION.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IS THAT THE HAT YOU TOLD US ABOUT, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: DO YOU SEE ANOTHER BLOODY SHOEPRINT THERE?

A: WHAT APPEARS TO BE A HEEL MARK, YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, WHAT PHOTOGRAPH IS THIS?

MS. CLARK: WE SHOULD MARK THIS, YOUR HONOR, AS PHOTOGRAPH 44.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 44.

(PEO'S 44 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: CAN WE CIRCLE THAT HEEL PRINT.

Q: A THAT IS THE KNIT CAP?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THAT IS THE GLOVE?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THESE THINGS FROM YOUR POSITION IN THE -- STANDING ON THE BUSHES NEAR THE CALL BOX WHEN YOU USED YOUR FLASHLIGHT TO LOOK AT THE LOCATION?

A: I WAS ACTUALLY KNEELING WHEN I SAW ALL THIS.

Q: KNEELING?

A: YES.

Q: THAT PLANT THAT SEEMS TO BE HANGING OVER THE GLOVE AND THE HAT, DID THAT KIND OF BLOCK THEM FROM VIEW, UNLESS YOU USED YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT ELSE DID YOU SEE AT THAT TIME, SIR?

A: UMM, THERE WAS SOMEWHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS GOING UP THE STEPS TOWARDS THE HOUSE.

Q: OKAY. YOU SAW THOSE AND WAS THAT FROM YOUR POSITION STILL IN THE BUSHES AT THE CALL BOX AREA?

A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES.

Q: AND YOU SAW BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

A: YES.

Q: HOW MANY SETS OF BLOODY SHOEPRINTS DID YOU SEE?

A: JUST ONE SET.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THIS IS A BOARD, YOUR HONOR, OF -- CONSISTING OF 15 PHOTOGRAPHS. ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 45.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 45, DISPLAY WITH FIFTEEN PHOTOGRAPHS OF ALLEGED SHOEPRINTS.

(PEO'S 45 FOR ID = BOARD W/15 PHOTOGRAPHS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU COULD STEP DOWN, SIR, IF YOU WOULD.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

Q: GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT THAT. ALL RIGHT. TELL US WHAT YOU SEE THERE.

A: THE FIRST PICTURE IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER OR THE UPPER LEFT-HAND CORNER WOULD BE THE AREA WHERE THE MALE VICTIM WAS LAYING.

Q: AND THAT -- THAT WOULD BE --

MS. CLARK: THAT WOULD BE, FOR THE RECORD, LET'S MAKE THAT 44-A.

THE COURT: 45.

MS. CLARK: 45-A.

(PEO'S 45-A FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

THE COURT: I'M GOING TO ASK YOU, MISS CLARK, AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE COURT TODAY IF YOU WOULD HAVE SOMEBODY -- ONE OF YOUR CLERKS LABEL EACH ONE OF THESE UNDERNEATH, A THROUGH WHATEVER.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: AS TO BOTH 43 AND 45.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: MAYBE YOU ALSO WANT 40 AS WELL.

THE COURT: THAT WOULD HELP FOR REFERENCE, YES. THANK YOU.

THE WITNESS: CONTINUE?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YES, PLEASE CONTINUE.

A: THE SECOND PICTURE --

Q: B.

(PEO'S 45-B FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: -- WOULD BE OF THE FEMALE VICTIM AND THE STAIRS LEADING TO THE WEST.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, THAT IS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE STANDING AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS LOOKING DOWN?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DO YOU SEE A SHOEPRINT IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU POINT IT?

A: RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: AND FOR -- AND 45-C.

(PEO'S 45-C FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: IT IS A PICTURE OF THE STAIRS AND THERE APPEARS TO BE TWO SHOEPRINTS.

Q: THOSE ARE THE SAME STAIRS SHOWN IN 45-B?

A: YES.

Q: YOU POINT OUT THE OTHER SHOEPRINTS, SIR.

A: THERE IS ONE HERE AND ONE HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: NOW, 45-C IT IS ON ITS SIDE, BUT CAN YOU TELL US, IS THAT THE LANDING AT THE TOP OF THE STAIRS?

A: THAT IS THE LANDING GOING TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR HEADING WEST.

Q: SO THAT IS THE LANDING AT THE TOP OF THOSE STEPS SHOWN IN B AND C?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU POINT TO ANY SHOEPRINTS THAT YOU SEE IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: AND THAT WOULD BE D.

(PEO'S 45-D FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, E CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LOCATION THAT IS?

(PEO'S 45-E FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: THAT IS THE LANDING. YOU CAN SEE THE FRONT DOOR IS RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING), AND THIS CONTINUES.

Q: DO YOU SEE ANY SHOEPRINTS IN THAT LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU POINT TO THEM, PLEASE. DO YOU WANT TO USE THE POINTER.

A: THERE IS ONE HERE, ONE HERE, ONE HERE AND ONE HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: AND STEPPING BACK TO F.

(PEO'S 45-F FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: THIS IS PAST THE LANDING AND IT IS GOING TOWARDS THE WEST AND THIS IS THE REAR GATE, (INDICATING).

Q: AND IS THAT ANOTHER KIND OF PERSPECTIVE SHOT OF THE -- A LONGER SHOT OF THE WALKWAY AREA THAT IS SHOWN IN E?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU SEE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS THERE?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU POINT TO THEM, PLEASE.

A: HERE, HERE, HERE. THERE IS A FAINT ONE HERE, AND I BELIEVE THERE IS ONE RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).

THE COURT: OFFICER RISKE, CAN YOU KEEP YOUR VOICE UP BECAUSE EVERYBODY IN THE JURY BOX NEEDS TO HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

THE WITNESS: I'M SORRY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: PHOTOGRAPH G, H, I AND J IN THAT ROW, CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS SHOWN THERE?

(PEO'S 45-G THRU 45-J FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: YES.

Q: WHAT IS THAT?

A: IT IS A PICTURES OF WHAT APPEARS TO BE A BLOODY FOOTPRINT.

Q: AND DO THOSE LOOK LIKE THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS YOU SAW THAT NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT -- THOSE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS WERE GOING IN WHAT DIRECTION?

A: TOWARD THE WEST.

Q: WOULD THAT BE TOWARD THE REAR ALLEY BEHIND THE CONDOMINIUM?

A: YES.

Q: AND ON THE BOTTOM ROW AS WELL, SIR, K AND L?

(PEO'S 45-K & 45-L FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: TWO MORE WHAT APPEAR TO BE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS.

Q: AND DO THEY APPEAR THE WAY YOU FOUND THEM WHEN YOU FIRST CAME TO THE SCENE?

A: YES.

Q: THE M, N AND O ON THIS CHART, WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN THERE?

(PEO'S 45-M THRU 45-O FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

A: THAT IS APPROXIMATELY THE MIDDLE OF THE WALKWAY NORTH OF THE HOUSE. THERE IS SOME STEPS.

Q: DOES THAT WALKWAY AREA HAVE STEPS GOING DOWN AND UP AND DOWN?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO THESE APPEAR TO BE THE STEPS -- ONE OF THE SET OF STEPS GOING DOWN?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU OBSERVE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS ON THOSE STEPS AS WELL?

A: YES.

Q: AND CAN YOU SEE THEM IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS HERE?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU SHOW US?

A: THERE IS ONE HERE, LOOKS LIKE A LITTLE BIT HERE, THERE IS ONE HERE, ONE HERE, ONE HERE AND THERE IS ONE HERE AND THERE IS ONE HERE AND THIS APPEARS TO BE A SHOEPRINT, (INDICATING).

Q: AS WELL? GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE WITNESS STAND.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, AT THIS POINT WOULD IT BE HELPFUL TO HAVE TWO OF YOUR ASSISTANTS MOVE THIS EXHIBIT, BECAUSE SOME OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS THE SHOEPRINTS ARE NOT VISIBLE. PERHAPS IF YOU COULD HAVE THAT EXHIBIT -- MOMENTARILY HAVE TWO OF YOUR ASSISTANTS TAKE IT DOWN TO THE END OF OUR JURY BOX. THEY ARE NODDING BACK THERE BECAUSE THEY WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: JUST TAKE A FEW -- JUST TAKE A PAUSE FOR A MINUTE OR TWO AND LET THEM LOOK AT IT, INCLUDING OUR ALTERNATE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: IT OCCURS TO ME THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT WITH THE OTHER SET AS WELL.

MS. CLARK: WHY DON'T WE --

THE COURT: 1492, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE OTHER --

JUROR 1492: MOST OF IT.

MS. CLARK: LET ME BRING IT DOWN.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, OFFICER THESE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE BEING --

THE COURT: COUNSEL, WHY DON'T YOU LET THEM -- BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THEIR DIVIDED ATTENTION. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU STOOD AT THE -- YOU STOOD AT THE CALL BOX AREA UP ON THE PLANTS AND YOU MADE THESE OBSERVATIONS, SIR? YOU SAW THE HAT, THE GLOVE, THE ENVELOPE, THE SHOEPRINTS.

DID YOU SEE ALL OF THE SHOEPRINTS THAT WE HAVE JUST DESCRIBED GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN THE WALKWAY AT THAT POINT?

A: NO.

Q: WHICH ONES WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE AT THAT POINT?

A: I COULD SEE THE ONES ON THE STEPS AND THE ONES ON THE LANDING LEADING TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR, WHICH WAS OPENED.

Q: THE FRONT DOOR WAS OPENED?

A: YES.

Q: HOW FAR OPENED WAS IT?

A: A LITTLE MORE THAN HALF, I BELIEVE.

Q: NOW, YOU SAW THE WOMAN YOU DESCRIBED IN THE BLACK DRESS LYING AT THE FOOT OF THE STAIRS?

A: RIGHT.

Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE HER POSITION FOR US?

A: SHE WAS LAYING ON HER LEFT SIDE, HER HANDS TO HER CHEST, HER FEET WERE TOGETHER AND UNDERNEATH THE FENCE.

Q: UNDERNEATH THE GATE?

A: UMM --

Q: THE FENCE I MEAN, I'M SORRY?

A: THE FENCE.

Q: DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION, SIR, TO PHOTOGRAPH -- I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO POINT IT OUT TO THE JURY SO THAT THEY CAN SEE IT HERE. 44-C.

THE COURT: I THINK THIS IS 43.

MS. CLARK: 43-C.

Q: IN THE PHOTOGRAPH COULD YOU SHOW US WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? HER LEGS WERE UNDER THE FENCE?

A: UNDER THE FENCE RIGHT HERE, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: WAS EVERYBODY ABLE TO SEE IT?

Q: AFTER YOU MADE THESE OBSERVATIONS, SIR, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: MY PARTNER AND I, SEEING THAT THE FRONT DOOR WAS OPENED AND THERE WAS A FOOTPRINT -- WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS GOING TOWARD THE FRONT DOOR, WE STEPPED OVER THE FEMALE VICTIM AND WENT TO THE FOOT DOOR AND SAW THE SHOEPRINTS CONTINUE ON DOWN THE WALKWAY. WE LOOKED IN THE HOUSE AND THERE WAS -- APPEARED TO BE NO EVIDENCE OF RANSACKING OR FORCED ENTRY AND I SAW A PHONE PROBABLY FIFTEEN FEET, TWENTY FEET FROM THE FRONT DOOR, AND I ENTERED AND I CALLED THE STATION AND TOLD MY WATCH COMMANDER WHAT WE HAD.

Q: SO WHEN YOU WERE STANDING AT THE -- AT THE CALL BOX IN THE BUSHES, YOU SAW THE SHOEPRINTS LEADING UP TO THE FRONT DOOR. COULD YOU SEE WHETHER THOSE SHOEPRINTS FROM THAT POSITION CONTINUED ON PAST THE FRONT DOOR OR NOT?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHY WAS IT THAT YOU DECIDED TO STEP OVER THE BODY OF THE WOMAN AND GO INSIDE THE CONDO?

A: TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY OTHER VICTIMS IN THE HOUSE OR ANY EVIDENCE IN THE HOUSE.

Q: WHAT ABOUT A POSSIBLE SUSPECT?

A: POSSIBLE SUSPECT.

Q: AT THAT POINT YOU DIDN'T KNOW?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, HOW WAS IT THAT -- WHEN YOU STIPULATED OVER THE BODY OF THE WOMAN, DID YOU STEP IN BLOOD?

A: NO.

Q: HOW DID YOU MANAGE NOT TO DO THAT?

A: BY STAYING TO THE FAR LEFT AGAINST THE FENCE AND UP THE STEPS.

Q: YEAH. IT IS HARD TO SHOW IN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, BUT YOU --

A: IT SHOWS ON THIS ONE, (INDICATING).

Q: ON THIS ONE? IF YOU WOULD, SIR, PLEASE SHOW US WHERE THERE IS A CLEAR AREA THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO STEP OVER SO THAT YOU AVOIDED STEPPING IN THE BLOOD. THANK YOU. THAT IS PEOPLE'S 43.

THE COURT: 43.

THE WITNESS: I STAYED IN THE PLANT RIGHT HERE, GOT NEXT TO THE FENCE, STEPPED OVER HER BODY, STAYED AGAINST THE WALL, UP TO THE STEPS TO THE FRONT DOOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WAS THERE ANY BLOOD IN THAT LOCATION AS WE FACE THE PHOTOGRAPH OF 43-C ON THAT LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THE STAIRS?

A: NO.

Q: AND SO WHEN YOU STEPPED OVER HERE ALSO IN 45-B, DOES THAT SHOW PART OF THE CLEAR AREA?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU -- AND WHEN YOU -- BEFORE YOU STEPPED UP THERE, YOU WERE ALREADY ABLE TO SEE THIS BLOODY SHOEPRINT SHOWN IN 45-B WAS THERE?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AFTER YOU WENT INTO THE LOCATION -- FIRST OF ALL, DID YOU LOOK AT THE DOOR?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE OF FORCED ENTRY?

A: I DID NOTICE AND THERE WASN'T.

Q: THERE APPEARED TO BE NO EVIDENCE OF FORCED ENTRY?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS ON THE CARPETING?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THERE HAD BEEN PROPERTY STREWN AROUND OR ANY EVIDENCE OF A STRUGGLE?

A: NO.

Q: DID ANYTHING APPEAR TO BE OUT OF PLACE?

A: NO.

Q: DID DRAWERS APPEAR TO BE OPENED?

A: NO.

Q: DID CUPBOARDS APPEAR TO BE OPENED?

A: NO.

Q: DID CLOTHES APPEAR TO BE STREWN ABOUT?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY BLOOD DROPS INSIDE THE HOUSE ON THE FLOOR ANYWHERE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AND YOU SAW A TELEPHONE THERE?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND WHAT DID DO YOU WITH THAT PHONE?

A: I CALLED MY WATCH COMMANDER AT THE STATION AND TOLD HIM WE HAD A DOUBLE HOMICIDE ON BUNDY AND I TOLD HIM THAT O.J. SIMPSON WAS SOMEHOW INVOLVED.

Q: AND WHY DID YOU THINK THAT?

A: BECAUSE WHEN WE APPROACHED RIGHT BY THE FRONT DOOR YOU COULD SEE A LITHOGRAPH ON THE NORTH WALL OF THE APARTMENT OR THE CONDOMINIUM, AND AS I GOT TO THE PHONE THERE WAS A LETTER, HAD O.J. SIMPSON AS A RETURN ADDRESS, SO I THOUGHT IT WAS HIS WIFE OR HIS GIRLFRIEND.

Q: OKAY. NOW, BY "INVOLVED" DID YOU MEAN AS A SUSPECT?

A: NO, JUST POTENTIAL VICTIM, MAYBE IT IS HIS WIFE, I DIDN'T KNOW.

Q: SO INVOLVED IN THE SENSE THAT ONE OF THE VICTIMS MAY BE RELATED TO HIM?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WELL, MY PARTNER AND I EXITED THE APARTMENT, TOOK THE SAME PATH DOWN THROUGH THE PLANTS. I WENT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NORTH FENCE BY MR. GOLDMAN.

Q: HOW DID YOU DO THAT? DID YOU STEP THROUGH THE BLOOD SOMEHOW WHEN YOU DID THAT?

A: NO, I WENT AROUND TO THE NEIGHBOR'S YARD.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT, SIR. DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE MONITOR, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD ASK THAT THIS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 46.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 46.

(PEO'S 46 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU -- CAN YOU SHOW US, SIR, THE AREA YOU ARE SPEAKING OF THAT YOU WENT TO IN ORDER TO SEE RON GOLDMAN, THAT IS THE NEIGHBOR'S SIDE OF THE FENCE?

A: THERE IS A BIG TREE WHERE THE ARROW IS AND THERE IS A PATH THAT LEADS BACK TO THE FENCE WHERE RON GOLDMAN WAS LAYING.

Q: IS THAT ARROW SHOWN IN THAT LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: WAS IT DARK IN THAT LOCATION AS WELL?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU USE YOUR FLASHLIGHT, SIR?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: NOW, THESE PHOTOGRAPHS APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN IN DAYLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT MUCH LIGHT?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT AROUND BEHIND RON GOLDMAN'S BODY, WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: THE FIRST THING I SAW WAS A PAGER LAYING TO THE NORTH OF THE FENCE IN THE DIRT.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE ANOTHER SET OF PHOTOGRAPHS.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: ASK THAT THIS SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS, YOUR HONOR, BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 47. IT IS A SERIES OF NINE PHOTOGRAPHS, AND I WILL HAVE THEM LABELED A THROUGH --

MR. DOUGLAS: I.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: THANK YOU, MR. DOUGLAS.

(PEO'S 47-A THRU 47-I FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPHS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE THESE, SIR? AND WOULD YOU LIKE TO STEP DOWN AND LOOK AT THEM MORE CLOSELY.

A: I WILL STEP DOWN.

MS. CLARK: GO AHEAD AND ORIENT YOURSELF FOR A MINUTE. YOUR HONOR, IF IT WOULD BE ALL RIGHT WITH THE COURT, WOULD YOU MIND IF WE HAD ONE OF THE LAWYERS HOLD THE BOARD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE JURY SO THEY COULD ALL SEE IT WHILE HE IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE FOUND?

THE COURT: SO LONG AS THE DEFENSE COUNSEL CAN SEE WHAT IS GOING ON.

MS. CLARK: MR. COCHRAN WILL BE AT MY SIDE, I'M SURE.

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL GO OVER THERE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: NEVER MIND, YOUR HONOR. WE HAVE THESE ON LASER. I WILL LET THE OFFICER LOOK AT THESE.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. GO AHEAD. HAVE A SEAT.

THE WITNESS: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: THE FEED IS CUT, ISN'T IT, YOUR HONOR? ALL RIGHT. THAT WILL BE 47-A.

THE COURT: 47-A.

MS. CLARK: NEXT. ALL RIGHT. 47-B -- CAN WE MOVE -- 47-C, 47-D, 47-E, F, G, H, I. THESE ARE PRETTY DARK. YOUR HONOR, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO USE THE PHOTOGRAPHS, I THINK.

Q: CAN YOU SEE WHERE THE PAGER IS DEPICTED IN THE PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. IF YOU DON'T MIND, IF YOU COULD STEP DOWN WITH THE POINTER AND SHOW THE JURY, BECAUSE IT IS AWFULLY DARK.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS? ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, WHY DON'T YOU WAIT FOR MR. COCHRAN.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT, SIR, IF YOU WOULD --

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.

Q: IF YOU WOULD, SIR, CAN YOU POINT WITH THE POINTER TO THE JURY -- I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GET YOU TO STAND BACK BY MR. COCHRAN SO THE REST OF THE JURORS CAN SEE. ALL RIGHT. POINT OUT WHERE THE PAGER WAS FOUND?

A: THIS WOULD BE THE PAGER RIGHT HERE.

MS. CLARK: HE IS POINTING TO 47-A.

THE COURT: THE COURT REPORTER CANNOT HEAR THE WITNESS TESTIFYING AT THIS POINT BECAUSE HE IS TURNED AWAY.

MS. CLARK: KEEP YOUR VOICE UP, SIR.

THE WITNESS: PARDON ME.

MS. CLARK: KEEP YOUR VOICE UP. ALL RIGHT. THE WITNESS HAS POINTED TO PHOTOGRAPH 47-A. CAN YOU POINT THAT OUT ONE MORE TIME, SIR?

A: THIS WOULD BE THE PAGER, (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU RECALL SEEING KEYS IN THAT AREA --

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: -- AT THAT TIME? DID YOU APPROACH FROM BEHIND THIS GATE HERE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WAS THAT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GATE? I'M SHOWING 47-A.

A: THAT WOULD BE IN THE HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: SO YOU WERE NOT INSIDE THE GATE NEAR MR. GOLDMAN?

A: NO.

Q: GO AHEAD AND TAKE YOUR SEAT, SIR.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO IN THAT LOCATION WHILE YOU WERE ON THE OUTSIDE OF THAT GATE?

A: I APPROACHED MR. GOLDMAN. WHEN I WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE, I NOTICED THAT ONE OF HIS EYES WAS OPENED, SO I APPROACHED HIM, I SHINED MY LIGHT TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY MOVEMENT IN HIS PUPIL, AND THERE WAS NONE AND IT REMAINED FIXED AND DILATED AND I TOUCHED HIS EYEBALL WITH MY FINGER TO GET ANY INVOLUNTARY REACTION SUCH AS TWITCHING THE EYELID, MOVEMENT OF THE HEAD, JUST BASICALLY TO VERIFY THAT HE WAS DEAD.

Q: AND YOU FOUND WHAT?

A: THAT HE WAS DEAD.

Q: NOW, THAT PHOTOGRAPH IN 47-A, IS THAT HOW YOU FOUND HIM IN THAT POSITION?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I WENT BACK OUT TO THE STREET AND THE BACK-UP UNIT HAD ARRIVED AND I MET WITH THEM.

Q: NOW, DURING THAT ENTIRE TIME, SIR, DID YOU STEP IN ANY BLOOD IN THE WALKWAY OR AROUND THE VICTIMS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: OR UP ON THE STAIRS OR THE PATHWAY LEADING TO THE FRONT DOOR?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU TOUCH ANY OF THE EVIDENCE?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHY IS THAT?

A: BECAUSE I WAS TRYING TO PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: IS THAT DOING WHAT YOU ARE TRAINED TO DO, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: STANDARD TRAINING?

A: YES.

Q: AT THAT POINT --

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE A COURT REPORTER RECESS.

MS. CLARK: SURE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A BRIEF 15-MINUTE RECESS. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU. PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE. DON'T LET ANYBODY TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE CASE. DON'T DISCUSS ANYTHING ABOUT THE CASE. WE WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE IN FIFTEEN MINUTES. SEE YOU BACK HERE. OFFICER RISKE, YOU CAN STEP DOWN. DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY BUT THE LAWYERS. WE WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE IN FIFTEEN MINUTES. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL BE IN RECESS FOR FIFTEEN.

(RECESS.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT. MR. BAILEY, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO COMMENT ON BEFORE WE GET TO THE JURY?

MR. COCHRAN: NO. I DO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS ONE CHART THAT I JUST WANTED TO CALL THE COURT'S ATTENTION TO THAT I HAVE ONE QUESTION REGARDING, THIS ONE, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THE USE OF THE WORD "TRAIL", I THINK THAT THAT'S CONCLUSIONARY. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH "DROPS," WHATEVER. BUT I THINK "TRAIL" -- I THINK THERE'S NO REAL ISSUE ABOUT THAT. I THINK THAT'S ARGUMENTATIVE AND I THINK IT'S CONCLUSIONARY IN FORM, AND I DON'T OBJECT TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS WHICH I'VE SEEN, BUT THE LABEL I THINK IT'S A LITTLE NECESSARY LICENSE. AND I'LL TELL YOUR HONOR THAT THERE WILL BE A LOT OF EVIDENCE WITH REGARD TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S A TRAIL, AND I OBJECT TO THAT.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. THIS WAS SHOWN TO MR. COCHRAN YESTERDAY AND THERE WAS NO OBJECTION LODGED. SECONDLY, IT IS A MATTER OF WHAT WAS OBSERVED AND WHAT WILL BE TESTIFIED TO BY THE WITNESSES, THAT THE BLOOD TRAILED AND IN FACT DID TRAIL. THERE WAS A TAILING EFFECT TO THE BLOOD THAT SHOWED THAT IT TRAILED IN A WESTERLY DIRECTION. AND SO IT'S SIMPLY DESCRIPTIVE OF WHAT THE TESTIMONY WILL BE. THAT'S WHAT THE BOARD IS. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS. COUNSEL CAN ARGUE IT'S NOT, BUT WE HAVE A SERIES OF BLOOD DROPS TO THE LEFT OF THE SERIES OF BLOODY SHOE PRINTS. IT'S A TRAIL OF BLOOD.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S HER CONCLUSION. I'M INDICATING TO THE COURT THERE WILL BE TESTIMONY THAT THAT IS NOT A TRAIL. IT'S -- ALL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS THE EVIDENCE.

MS. CLARK: WELL, WHAT IS IT?

MR. COCHRAN: I'M TALKING ABOUT THE LABEL OF THIS EVIDENCE, AND I JUST THINK IT'S INAPPROPRIATE TO CALL IT A BLOOD TRAIL. SO I AM ASKING THE COURT -- WHEN I SAW THIS LAST NIGHT, WE WEREN'T ON THE RECORD OR WHATEVER. SO NOW IS THE TIME. SHE HADN'T PUT IT OUT. NOW IS THE TIME. I'M JUST SAYING WE SHOULD -- IF SHE WANTS TO CALL IT BLOOD AT BUNDY, I HAVE NO OBJECTION. I OBJECT TO THE USE OF THE WORD "TRAIL."

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I THINK THAT'S A MATTER FOR COUNSEL TO ARGUE, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT -- BUT THIS IS -- THIS IS THE PEOPLE'S EVIDENCE. THIS IS THE WAY THE WITNESSES CHARACTERIZE WHAT THEY SAW, AND SO IT'S SIMPLY DESCRIPTIVE. THAT'S WHAT THE TESTIMONY IS GOING TO ELICIT. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THESE BOARDS.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT. IT'S A MATTER FOR BOTH COUNSEL TO ARGUE, BUT NOT ANY ARGUMENT ON THIS DOCUMENT.

MS. CLARK: WELL, COUNSEL CAN PUT UP HIS OWN BOARD AND SAY BLOOD DROPS, IT IS NOT A TRAIL. BUT OUR WITNESSES FOUND IT TO BE A TRAIL AND THAT'S WHAT THE TESTIMONY WILL SHOW AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE BOARD.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, YOUR HONOR. I THINK THE EVIDENCE WILL BE THAT THIS IS 160 FEET UP THAT WAY AND THEY FIND FOUR DROPS OF BLOOD.

MS. CLARK: FIVE.

MR. COCHRAN: FIVE DROPS OF BLOOD. THAT DOES NOT MAKE A TRAIL AMONG MOST REASONABLE EXPERTS. AND THE QUESTION IS, I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE THAT -- AT THIS POINT, I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE UNTIL AT THE END OF THE CASE. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. OBJECTION IS NOTED. IT'S OVERRULED. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURORS, PLEASE, DEPUTY MAGNERA.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL, THAT OFFICER ROBERT RISKE IS ON THE STAND. OFFICER RISKE, YOU ARE REMINDED YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I'M JUST GOING TO --

Q: BY MS. CLARK: I BELIEVE WHEN WE LEFT OFF, SIR, YOU INDICATED THAT YOU CONTACTED YOUR SUPERVISOR?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHO WAS THAT?

A: CALLED SERGEANT ROSSI ON THE PHONE.

Q: AND AFTER YOU CALLED SERGEANT ROSSI, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: WE EXITED THE RESIDENCE, WENT DOWN, I CHECKED MR. GOLDMAN AND THEN I WAS LEAVING FROM THERE AND ADDITIONAL UNITS SHOWED UP.

Q: SO AFTER YOU LOOKED -- YOU WENT AROUND THE NEIGHBOR'S SIDE OF THE FENCE, LOOKED IN AT MR. GOLDMAN, THEN YOU BACKED OUT AGAIN AND DID WHAT?

A: ADDITIONAL UNITS SHOWED UP AND I STARTED TELLING THEM WHAT WE HAD.

Q: ADDITIONAL UNIT, MEANING OTHER POLICE OFFICERS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IN A BLACK AND WHITE UNIT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS THAT BASED ON THE CALL YOU PUT OUT?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT YOU HAD FOUND?

A: I STARTED TO EXPLAIN TO THEM, AND THEN SERGEANT MARTY COON SHOWED UP AND I JUST TOLD EVERYBODY AT ONCE.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOUR SERGEANT CAME IN, CAME TO THE SCENE, WHERE WAS EVERYBODY DURING THIS TIME?

A: WE WERE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE STREET BY MY POLICE VEHICLE.

Q: YOU WERE OUT ON BUNDY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IN FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: YOU WERE NOT ON THE SIDEWALK OR ON THE WALKWAY?

A: NO. WE WERE ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE STREET BY 874.

Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE STANDING AT THAT LOCATION IN THE STREET, WHAT WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

A: I ADVISED HIM WE HAD A DOUBLE HOMICIDE AND WHAT EVIDENCE WE HAD THAT WAS VISIBLE FROM WHAT WE HAD SEEN AND MY PARTNER WAS SENT TO THE REAR TO SECURE THE REAR. ONE OF THE OFFICERS STARTED TO SET UP CRIME SCENE TAPE AND DETECTIVE WALLY OR OFFICER WALLY AND I WERE DIRECTED TO SEARCH THE HOUSE.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAY "CRIME SCENE TAPE," SHOWING YOU AGAIN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEEN MARKED TODAY AS PEOPLE'S 46, YOU SEE THAT YELLOW TAPE IN THE FOREGROUND?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT CRIME SCENE TAPE AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND WHO PUT THAT UP?

A: I BELIEVE OFFICER ED MC GOWAN.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THAT CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM WALKING THROUGH THE AREA, THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US WHERE IT EXTENDED TO?

A: THE TAPE IN THE FRONT WENT FROM THE NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH TO THE NEIGHBOR TO THE SOUTH, ENCOMPASSED THE WHOLE THREE HOUSES.

Q: AND TO THE REAR OF THE AREA, WAS THAT SECURED ALSO?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT -- HOW FAR WAS THAT CRIME TAPE EXTENDED IN THE REAR?

A: THE NEIGHBOR TO THE NORTH OF THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE TO THE FOOT OF THE ALLEY WHICH WOULD BE DOROTHY.

Q: SHOWING YOU NOW A PHOTOGRAPH THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 39, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S SHOWN THERE, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT IS THAT?

A: THAT'S THE REAR ALLEY OF THE BUNDY ADDRESS.

Q: AND YOU SEE THE TAPE YOU REFERRED TO EARLIER IDENTIFIED AS CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: IS THAT SHOWN IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH ALSO?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT'S SHOWN IN THE FOREGROUND THERE, IS THAT CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT THE END OF THE ALLEY?

A: THAT'S THE SOUTH END OF THE ALLEY ON DOROTHY.

Q: DO YOU SEE THE POLICE CAR IN THE BACK TOWARDS THE REAR OF THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND CAN YOU SEE WHERE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE IS IN RELATION TO THAT CAR?

A: YES.

Q: IS THE CAR INSIDE OR OUTSIDE THE TAPE?

A: IT'S OUTSIDE.

Q: OUTSIDE THE TAPE?

A: YES.

Q: AND AGAIN, THAT TAPE IN THE REAR IS TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM WALKING THROUGH?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHO SET UP THE REAR CRIME SCENE TAPE IF YOU KNOW?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: WAS ALL OF THAT TAPE, HOWEVER, SET UP RIGHT AFTER YOU CALLED YOUR SUPERVISOR?

A: IT WAS SET UP WHILE OFFICER WALLY AND I SEARCHED THE HOUSE.

MS. CLARK: AND THIS PHOTOGRAPH FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, THAT'S ON THE SCREEN NOW IS PEOPLE'S 38.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. THEN LET'S BACK UP FOR A SECOND, SIR. AFTER THE SERGEANT GOT TO THE SCENE, AT THAT POINT, EVERYBODY IS STANDING OUTSIDE IN THE STREET IN FRONT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: ON BUNDY?

A: RIGHT.

Q: NO ONE IS WALKING UP AROUND THE WALKWAY OR AROUND THE VICTIMS?

A: NO.

Q: AND WERE YOU GIVEN SOME ORDER AT THAT POINT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WAS THAT?

A: TO SEARCH THE HOUSE.

Q: FOR WHAT PURPOSE?

A: LOOK FOR ADDITIONAL VICTIMS, SUSPECT, ANY EVIDENCE THAT MIGHT BE IN THE HOUSE.

Q: AND THE OTHER OFFICERS, WHAT DID THEY DO?

A: OFFICER MC GOWAN PUT UP THE CRIME SCENE TAPE. SERGEANT COON MADE SURE NOBODY WALKED THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE AND MY PARTNER OFFICER TERRAZAS WENT TO THE BACK, SECURED TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION.

Q: THAT SERGEANT COON, IS HE ANY RELATION TO ANOTHER ONE?

A: NO. NOT THAT I KNOW OF.

Q: AND SO WHAT DID YOU DO AT THAT POINT?

A: OFFICER WALLY AND I APPROACHED THE RESIDENCE THROUGH THE GRASS, WENT UP THE PATH, UP THE STEPS AND INTO THE HOUSE.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU DID THAT, DID YOU WALK THROUGH THE BUSHES AGAIN?

A: YES.

Q: NOT ON THAT WALKWAY THAT HAD THE BLOOD ON IT?

A: NO. WE USED THE SAME ROUTE I USED BEFORE.

Q: AND YOU AVOIDED STEPPING IN THE BLOOD?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: DID THE OFFICERS THAT WENT WITH YOU DO THE SAME?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU WENT INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: ONCE AGAIN, SIR, WHEN YOU WENT INTO THE HOUSE, DID YOU NOTICE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: OR RANSACKING?

A: NO.

Q: OR EVIDENCE OF A STRUGGLE?

A: NO.

Q: OR FORCED ENTRY?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: WE FIRST SEARCHED THE GROUND LEVEL OF THE RESIDENCE FROM THE EXTREME EAST SIDE ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR, WHICH WOULD BE THE WEST, AND THERE'S SOME STAIRS THAT LEAD DOWN TO A GARAGE. WE WENT DOWN THE STAIRS. WE SAW A CUP OF ICE CREAM SITTING ON A BANISTER OF THE STAIRWAY.

Q: WAS THAT INSIDE THE HOUSE, SIR?

A: INSIDE THE HOUSE RIGHT BY THE GARAGE.

Q: IS THERE A DOOR THAT LEADS FROM THE HOUSE, INSIDE THE HOUSE TO THE GARAGE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WERE THERE -- ARE THERE STAIRS THAT LEAD TO THAT DOOR?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE ICE CREAM, WAS THAT AT THE TOP OR THE BOTTOM OF THOSE STAIRS?

A: TO THE BOTTOM OF THE STAIRS ON THE BANISTER.

Q: BUT INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SEE OTHER THAN THAT?

A: WE OPENED THE DOOR, SEARCHED THE GARAGE. THERE WAS NOTHING IN THERE. WHEN WE WENT BACK UPSTAIRS, WENT TO THE SECOND LEVEL OF THE HOUSE, WE OBSERVED TWO CHILDREN SLEEPING IN THEIR BEDS AND THERE WAS NO OTHER EVIDENCE IN THE HOUSE.

Q: DID YOU LOOK IN THE MASTER BEDROOM?

A: YES.

Q: WAS THE MASTER BEDROOM LIT?

A: I BELIEVE IT HAD A TABLE LAMP ON, YES.

Q: WAS THERE A TELEVISION IN THE ROOM?

A: YES, THERE WAS.

Q: WAS IT ON?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE BED, WHAT WAS THE CONDITION OF THE BED?

A: IT'S -- THE COVERS WERE JUST PILED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BED.

Q: THE COVERS WERE RUMPLED?

A: YES.

Q: WERE THERE ANY OTHER LIGHTS ON UPSTAIRS?

A: I BELIEVE THERE WAS A LIGHT IN THE MAIN HALLWAY AND THE WORKOUT ROOM I THINK WAS LIGHTED.

Q: OKAY. THERE'S A WORKOUT ROOM?

A: JUST EAST OF THE MASTER BEDROOM, THERE'S LIKE A BALCONY THAT OVERLOOKS THE LIVING ROOM AND THERE'S SOME WORKOUT EQUIPMENT IN THERE.

Q: AND WAS THAT LIT?

A: I BELIEVE THE LIGHT WAS ON IN THERE, YES.

Q: AND THE BATHROOM, IN WHAT CONDITION WAS THE BATHROOM NEAR THE MASTER BEDROOM?

A: THE LIGHTS WERE OFF, BUT THERE WERE CANDLES LIT. THE TUB WAS FULL OF WATER.

Q: LIKE SOMEONE WAS GETTING READY TO TAKE A BATH?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND THE CHILDREN, WERE THEY ASLEEP IN THEIR ROOMS?

A: YES.

Q: ONE CHILD IN EACH ROOM?

A: YES.

Q: SO WERE THEIR ROOMS DARK?

A: YES, THEY WERE.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANY EVIDENCE OF BLOOD DROPS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: ANYWHERE UPSTAIRS?

A: NO.

Q: ANY EVIDENCE OF A STRUGGLE?

A: NO.

Q: ANY EVIDENCE OF RANSACKING?

A: NO.

Q: DRAWERS PULLED OUT?

A: NO.

Q: CLOSETS OPEN?

A: NO.

Q: CLOTHING THROWN AROUND?

A: NO.

Q: JEWELRY THROWN AROUND?

A: NO.

Q: ANYTHING LOOK OUT OF PLACE UP THERE?

A: NOT THAT I COULD SEE, NO.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I WENT DOWN TO THE FRONT LANDING, ADVISED MY SUPERVISOR THAT WE HAD TWO CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE AND WE HAD TO TAKE THEM OUT THE BACK.

Q: SO YOU WENT BACK DOWNSTAIRS TO THE FRONT DOOR AREA?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: THE DOOR IS STILL STANDING OPEN AS YOU FOUND IT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WERE THERE ANY CANDLES LIT ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE HOUSE?

A: NOT THAT I RECALL.

Q: DID YOU WRITE A REPORT IN THIS MATTER, SIR?

A: A BRIEF STATEMENT.

Q: VERY BRIEF?

A: YEAH. VERY BRIEF STATEMENT.

Q: DO YOU HAPPEN TO RECALL AT THIS TIME THE CONDITION OF THE ICE CREAM THAT YOU SAW IN THE CUP IN -- JUST INSIDE THE DOOR IN THE HOUSE ON THE BANISTER? EXCUSE ME.

A: IT APPEARED TO BE MELTED.

Q: SO WHEN YOU WENT OUT ON THE LANDING, WHO WAS IT YOU MADE CONTACT WITH?

A: SERGEANT COON.

Q: AND YOU TOLD HIM ABOUT THE CHILDREN INSIDE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU TELL HIM TO DO ABOUT THAT?

A: I JUST TOLD HIM WE HAD TWO CHILDREN IN THE HOUSE AND WE WERE GOING TO TAKE THEM OUT THE BACK.

Q: AND THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I WALKED THE WALKWAY THAT LEADS TO THE REAR GATE, I MET WITH MY PARTNER, TOLD HIM WE HAD TWO KIDS, WE WERE GOING TO OPEN THE GARAGE DOOR AND BRING THEM OUT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WAS THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU TOOK THAT WALKWAY TOWARDS THE REAR AREA OF THE CONDOMINIUM BACK TO WHERE THE REAR DRIVEWAY IS?

A: YES, IT WAS.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE ANOTHER SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS I WOULD ASK BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 48. YES?

THE CLERK: YES. 48.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 48.

(PEO'S 48 FOR ID = SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS)

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO -- YOUR HONOR, IF I MIGHT HAVE MR. ESCOBAR HOLD THIS IN THE CENTER OF THE JURY.

THE COURT: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OFFICER, WOULD YOU LIKE TO STEP DOWN AND TAKE THE POINTER WITH YOU? ALL RIGHT. NOW, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME YOU WALKED THIS PATH THAT GOES TOWARDS, FROM THE FRONT DOOR TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ON THAT WALKWAY AS YOU PROCEEDED DOWN IT?

A: I CONTINUED TO SEE WHAT APPEARED TO BE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS AND DROPS OF BLOOD.

Q: NOW, WERE YOU USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: IS IT DARK IN THAT LOCATION?

A: YES.

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME MS. CLARK. COULD YOU HAVE MR. RISKE KEEP HIS VOICE UP?

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: TALK LOUDER.

A: ALL RIGHT.

Q: DO YOU -- DID YOU -- HOW DID YOU AVOID STEPPING ON THOSE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OR ON THOSE BLOOD DROPS?

A: I USED MY FLASHLIGHT, ILLUMINATED THE WALKWAY AND STAYED AGAINST THE WALL LEADING BACK TO THE BACK.

Q: SO BEFORE YOU STEPPED, YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE WHERE YOU WERE STEPPING WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU AVOIDED THOSE BLOODY --

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU AVOIDED THOSE BLOODY AREAS?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU -- IF YOU CAN -- ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE THESE, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: SHOWING YOU THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT WILL BE LABELED AS A, 48-A, DO YOU SEE THESE MARKERS HERE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: OKAY. AND DO YOU SEE THOSE MARKERS CLOSER UP IN B AND C?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHAT ARE THOSE?

A: THOSE ARE EVIDENCE TAGS.

Q: AND THE DROPS THAT APPEAR NEXT TO THEM?

A: THEY APPEAR TO BE DROPS OF BLOOD.

Q: AS YOU SAW THEM THAT NIGHT, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN C AND D?

A: THEY'RE ALSO EVIDENCE TAGS AND DROPS OF BLOOD.

Q: SO D IS A BLOWUP OF THE DROPS SHOWN IN PERSPECTIVE ON THE STAIRS IN D?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN F AND G?

A: THIS IS THE REAR WALKWAY GOING TO THE DRIVEWAY. THERE'S AN EVIDENCE TAG ON THAT ALSO.

Q: AND IN -- AND G, IS THAT A CLOSEUP OF THE EVIDENCE TAG SHOWN IN F?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: NOW, THAT GATE THAT'S SHOWN IN F, IS THAT THE REAR GATE THAT ACTUALLY OPENS ONTO THE REAR DRIVEWAY IN THE BACK ALLEY?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: AND H DOWN HERE, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN THERE?

A: THAT'S THE REAR DRIVEWAY.

MS. CLARK: CAN EVERYBODY SEE?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU SEE THE EVIDENCE TAGS SHOWN IN H?

A: YES, I CAN.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND CAN YOU SEE THE CLOSEUP OF THOSE TAGS IN I AND IN K?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU WENT OUT TOWARDS THE -- OUT THROUGH THE REAR GATE, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE ANY OTHER BLOOD DROPS?

A: I MET WITH MY PARTNER AT THE REAR GATE AND --

MR. COCHRAN: MOVE TO STRIKE AS NONRESPONSIVE.

THE WITNESS: YES, I DID.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND HOW DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE THOSE?

A: MY PARTNER DIRECTED MY ATTENTION TO THEM.

Q: AND HOW DID HE DO THAT?

A: HE JUST TOLD ME HE SAW BLOOD ON THE GATE AND ON THE DRIVEWAY AND HE SHOWED ME WHERE THEY WERE WITH HIS FLASHLIGHT.

Q: SHONE HIS LIGHT ON THEM?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WAS HE STAYING AWAY FROM THEM?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN HE TOLD YOU THAT, THAT WAS SO YOU WOULD STAY AWAY FROM THEM TOO?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THAT. CALLS FOR CONCLUSION, SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: "MY PARTNER TOLD ME."

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN HE TOLD YOU THAT, DID YOU STAY AWAY FROM THOSE BLOOD DROPS?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND ARE THESE -- CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER THE BLOOD DROPS SHOWN IN I ARE THE BLOOD DROPS IN THE REAR DRIVEWAY THAT WERE POINTED OUT TO YOU BY YOUR PARTNER WITH HIS FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES, THEY ARE.

Q: DID YOU ALSO -- DID YOUR PARTNER POINT OUT ANY OTHER ITEM OF EVIDENCE NEAR THAT BLOOD DROP IN THE REAR DRIVEWAY?

A: THERE WAS SOME CHANGE BY THE JEEP.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAY CHANGE, DO YOU SEE THAT DEPICTED IN ONE OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: IS THAT IN K AT THE VERY END?

A: YES.

Q: AND NOW, THE TWO EVIDENCE MARKERS THAT YOU SEE IN J OR BETTER ACTUALLY OVER HERE IN H, DO THOSE SHOW THE RELATIVE LOCATIONS OF THE BLOOD DROP AND THE CHANGE?

A: YES, THEY DO.

Q: AND IS THAT AS YOU FOUND IT ON THAT NIGHT, SIR?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: THANK YOU. NOW, THE BLOOD DROPS THAT YOU SAW GOING DOWN THE WALKWAY, WHERE IN RELATION TO THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED DID YOU SEE THEM?

A: I BELIEVE THEY WERE TO THE LEFT OF THE SHOEPRINTS.

Q: AND AT THE REAR GATE THAT YOU POINTED OUT TO US THAT'S NOW SHOWN IN PHOTOGRAPH F, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT -- ON THAT REAR GATE?

A: THERE'S BLOOD AT VARIOUS LOCATIONS ON THE GATE, THAT WOULD APPEAR TO BE BLOOD.

Q: AND DID YOUR PARTNER POINT OUT ANY OTHER BLOOD WITH RESPECT TO THAT REAR GATE?

A: HE POINTED OUT BLOOD ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE GATE ON THE BACK.

Q: AND WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE THAT?

A: YES, I WAS.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE, WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN THAT WALKWAY FOR THE FIRST TIME TOWARDS THE REAR IN A WESTERLY DIRECTION, WHEN YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE, WAS IT LOCKED?

A: NO, IT WASN'T.

Q: TELL US WHAT CONDITION IT WAS IN.

A: I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS BROKEN OR THE LATCH WAS STUCK OPEN. I JUST PUSHED ON THE GATE WITH MY FLASHLIGHT AND IT OPENED.

Q: YOU PUSHED IT WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND IT OPENED BY ITSELF?

A: YES.

Q: YOU DIDN'T TOUCH IT WITH YOUR HAND?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: NOW, YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT A JEEP?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU GOT OUT TO THE REAR OF THE LOCATION TO THE REAR DRIVEWAY, YOU SAW -- YOU MENTIONED YOU SAW THE DROPS OF BLOOD AND THE CHANGE. DID YOU ALSO -- YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT YOU SAW A JEEP?

A: RIGHT.

Q: CAN YOU SEE THAT JEEP IN THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS 37?

THE COURT: YOUR EXHIBIT, MISS CLARK.

MS. CLARK: I KNOW.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: 39.

MS. CLARK: 39.

THE WITNESS: YES, I CAN.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: IS THAT THE JEEP AS YOU FOUND IT THAT DAY, THAT NIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AT THE TIME THAT YOU FOUND THE JEEP, SIR, WAS THE GARAGE DOOR OPEN OR CLOSED?

A: IT WAS CLOSED.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT OUT THE REAR GATE FOR THE FIRST TIME, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT JEEP?

A: I DIDN'T REALLY EXAMINE THE JEEP THE FIRST TIME.

Q: DID YOU COME BACK TO IT AT SOME LATER POINT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHEN WAS THAT?

A: AFTER THE CHILDREN WERE OUT OF THE HOUSE.

Q: WHEN YOU -- AFTER YOU EXITED THE REAR GATE, YOU SAW -- YOUR PARTNER POINTED OUT THE BLOOD, YOU SAW THE BLOOD ON THE GATE, ET CETERA, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

MR. COCHRAN: SUMMARIZING THE TESTIMONY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I TOLD THEM WE WERE GOING TO OPEN THE REAR GARAGE DOOR AND I ASKED THEM IF THERE WAS ANYTHING -- IF WE OPENED THE DOOR, IF IT WOULD DISTURB ANY EVIDENCE, AND HE SAID NO.

Q: AND DID YOU THEN OPEN THE REAR GARAGE DOOR?

A: I WENT BACK IN THE HOUSE AND WOKE UP THE CHILDREN AND GOT THEM DRESSED AND THE GIRL OPENED THE GARAGE DOOR FOR US.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAY YOU WENT BACK INTO THE HOUSE, WHAT ROUTE DID YOU TAKE?

A: THE WALKWAY BACK TO THE FRONT DOOR AND THEN INTO THE FRONT DOOR.

Q: AND AGAIN, AS YOU WALKED DOWN THAT WALKWAY, WERE YOU USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: DID YOU STEP IN THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: OR THE BLOOD DROPS?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOU WENT BACK INTO THE HOUSE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: GOT THE CHILDREN DRESSED?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU TOOK THEM OUT, WHAT DIRECTION, WHAT ROUTE DID YOU TAKE?

A: WENT DOWN THE STAIRS, THROUGH THE GARAGE, WENT THROUGH THE INSIDE OF THE GARAGE, HAD THE GIRL OPEN THE GARAGE DOOR, THEN WE WENT PAST THE FERRARI AND OUT ON THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: SO THEY WENT OUT THROUGH THE BACK?

A: YES.

Q: AND WAS A POLICE UNIT THERE?

A: THERE WAS A UNIT JUST THE END OF THE ALLEY ON DOROTHY.

Q: AND YOU TOOK THEM OUT TO THAT UNIT?

A: YES.

Q: THEY WERE THEN TAKEN WHAT, TO THE WEST L.A. STATION?

A: TO WEST L.A.

Q: AT THAT POINT, DID ANYONE KNOW WHO THEIR PARENTS WERE OR WHERE THEY COULD BE FOUND?

A: WE KNEW THEIR FATHER WAS O.J. SIMPSON, BUT I DIDN'T ASK HER WHERE HE WAS.

Q: HAD THAT BEEN VERIFIED FOR A FACT AT THAT POINT, THAT THEIR FATHER WAS MR. SIMPSON?

A: NO. NOT UNTIL I ASKED HER.

Q: YOU ASKED THE LITTLE GIRL?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: SIDNEY?

A: YES.

Q: AND SHE TOLD YOU?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER THE CHILDREN WERE TAKEN FROM THE SCENE, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: I WENT BACK TO THE DRIVEWAY AND I TALKED TO MY PARTNER AND I SAW THE JEEP AGAIN. HE SHOWED ME THE JEEP.

Q: AND WHAT ABOUT THAT JEEP WAS UNUSUAL?

A: THE FRONT PASSENGER DOOR WAS SLIGHTLY AJAR.

Q: AND IS THAT THE JEEP THAT'S SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 39?

A: YES.

Q: THE PASSENGER DOOR IN FRONT -- IS IT A FOUR-DOOR VEHICLE OR TWO-DOOR IF YOU KNOW?

A: I THINK IT'S A FOUR, BUT I'M NOT SURE. I DON'T RECALL.

Q: BUT IT WAS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WAS IT STANDING OPEN?

A: NO. IT WAS CLOSED, BUT IT WASN'T CLOSED ALL THE WAY.

Q: WAS THE INTERIOR LIGHT ON?

A: I REALLY DON'T RECALL.

Q: AFTER YOU NOTICED THAT THE PASSENGER DOOR WAS CRACKED ON THE JEEP, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WE JUST MADE SURE THAT -- MY PARTNER AND SERGEANT ROSSI WHEN HE SHOWED UP, WE SHOWED IT TO HIM, MADE SURE EVERYBODY STAYED AWAY FROM IT.

Q: STAYED AWAY FROM THE JEEP?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WHY?

A: BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT ANYBODY TO TOUCH THE CAR, GET FINGERPRINTS ON IT, DISTURB ANY EVIDENCE.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?

A: I WENT UP TO THE FRONT AND I VERIFIED THAT THE CRIME SCENE WAS SET UP. I TALKED TO SERGEANT COON, TOLD HIM WE HAD THE CHILDREN OUT OF THE HOUSE AND I CAME BACK TO THE REAR AND I WALKED THE ALLEY FROM DOROTHY TO GORHAM LOOKING AT TRASH CANS, LOOKING FOR ANY EVIDENCE.

Q: NOW, WAS THERE SOMEONE GUARDING THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION AND THE REAR OF THE LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHO WAS THAT?

A: SERGEANT COON WAS IN THE FRONT AND I BELIEVE HE HAD AN OFFICER SANCHEZ WITH HIM, ANOTHER UNIT HAD ARRIVED, AND IN THE REAR WAS MY PARTNER, OFFICER TERRAZAS.

Q: AND WHEN I SAY GUARDING THE LOCATION IN THE FRONT AND THE REAR, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THAT?

A: YOU POST SOMEBODY AT THE CRIME SCENE TO MAKE SURE NOBODY CROSSES THE TAPE, DISTURBS ANY EVIDENCE.

Q: KEEP PEOPLE OUT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID THEY DO THAT?

A: YES, THEY DID.

Q: SO YOU SEARCHED THE ALLEY THEN FROM DOROTHY AND BUNDY UP TO GORHAM?

A: DOROTHY, THE REAR ALLEY OF DOROTHY UP TO GORHAM.

Q: SO FOR ONE BLOCK BEHIND THE HOUSE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU FIND?

A: NOTHING.

Q: WAS THERE -- DID ANYBODY TAKE ANY STEPS TO BLOCK -- TO BLOCK OFF TRAFFIC?

A: WELL, WE HAD BUNDY FROM DOROTHY TO GORHAM CLOSED TO VEHICLES.

Q: SO THE ENTIRE -- SO TRAFFIC WAS BLOCKED OFF IN FRONT OF THE LOCATION ON BUNDY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OR BLOOD DROPS IN THE ALLEY?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WERE YOU LOOKING FOR THEM?

A: YES.

Q: WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, AT SOME POINT, SIR, DID YOU GO TO THE LOCATION OF 874 SOUTH BUNDY WHERE YOUR INITIAL CALL CAME FROM?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WAS THAT AFTER YOU LOOKED THROUGH THE ALLEY FOR EVIDENCE?

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS BEFORE. I WENT BACK TO THE FRONT, MADE SURE THE CRIME SCENE WAS SECURE AND I BELIEVE ANOTHER OFFICER AND I WENT TO 874.

Q: SO BEFORE GOING BACK TO THE ALLEY OR -- AND WAS IT AFTER THE CHILDREN WERE TAKEN OUT?

A: IT WAS AFTER THE CHILDREN.

Q: AFTER YOU TOOK THE CHILDREN OUT, DID YOU GO OVER TO 874 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHY WAS THAT?

A: I SPOKE WITH A FEMALE WHITE, THE ORIGINAL P/R THAT CALLED, THE ONE THAT CALLED IN THE BURGLAR.

Q: THE ORIGINAL CALL THAT YOU RESPONDED TO OF A BURGLARY AT 874?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE WOMAN YOU SPOKE TO?

A: IT WAS AN ELDERLY FEMALE WHITE. I BELIEVE SHE HAD WHITE HAIR.

Q: AND DID YOU TALK TO HER ABOUT HER CALL --

A: YES, I DID.

Q: -- TO YOU? DID YOU -- DID SHE DISCUSS WITH YOU HEARING THE DOORBELL RINGING AND SOMEBODY KNOCKING ON HER DOOR?

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. HEARSAY.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. I BELIEVE IT JUST EXPLAINS SUBSEQUENT ACTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AS A RESULT OF WHAT SHE TOLD YOU, WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: MY PARTNER AND I OR THE OFFICERS WITH ME AND I GOT A KEY FROM HER FOR THE REAR GATE AND WE SEARCHED HER YARD FOR -- JUST TO MAKE SURE NOTHING WAS WRONG.

Q: DID SHE HAVE A DOG IN THE BACKYARD THERE?

A: YES, SHE DID.

Q: DID YOU ASK HER TO TAKE THAT DOG IN?

A: YES.

Q: AND SHE DID THAT?

A: YES.

Q: THEN YOU SEARCHED AROUND HER HOUSE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: FIND ANY PROBLEMS?

A: NO.

Q: ANY EVIDENCE OF RECENTLY TRAMPLED SHRUBBERY OR --

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. COCHRAN: FORM OF THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SEE ANY SCREENS REMOVED FROM THE WINDOWS?

A: NO, WE DIDN'T.

Q: ANY EVIDENCE OF SOME RECENT JIMMYING OF ANY LOCKS OR ANYTHING?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU REPORT BACK TO HER?

A: YES. WE TOOK HER THE KEY TO THE GATE AND WE TOLD HER IT LOOKED CLEAR AND DIDN'T LOOK LIKE ANYBODY HAD BEEN BACK THERE.

Q: AND DID YOU TELL HER NOT TO GO OUTSIDE?

A: YES.

Q: WHY IS THAT?

A: I TOLD HER WE HAD A CRIME ACROSS THE STREET AND JUST TO STAY IN THE HOUSE.

Q: NOW, AFTER YOU MADE CONTACT WITH HER, WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: THEN I WENT TO THE REAR AND SEARCHED THE ALLEY, THE REAR OF 875 BUNDY AND SEARCHED THE ALLEY.

Q: THAT'S WHEN YOU SEARCHED THE ALLEY?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?

A: I CAME BACK TO THE FRONT AND I NOTICED THAT SERGEANT ROSSI, WEST L.A. WATCH COMMANDER WAS THERE AND SERGEANT COON WAS TALKING TO HIM. I APPROACHED THEM, DISCUSSED WHAT WE HAD AND SERGEANT ROSSI, SERGEANT COON AND I CROSSED THE TAPE, WENT UP ON THE GRASS AND LOOKED AT THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: NOW, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF DOING THAT?

A: HE'S MY SUPERVISOR. I HAVE TO TELL HIM WHAT WE HAVE.

Q: AND SO WHEN YOU ESCORTED HIM UP TO WHERE -- CLOSER TO WHERE THE VICTIMS WERE, AGAIN, YOU WALKED ON THE BUSHES AND ON THE GRASS?

A: WALKED ON THE GRASS, NOT IN THE BUSHES THIS TIME.

Q: OKAY. NOT ON THAT PATHWAY.

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID YOU POINT OUT THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU HAD FOUND WITH YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHO WAS IT THAT WAS WITH YOU AT THAT TIME?

A: SERGEANT DAVE ROSSI AND SERGEANT MARTY COON.

Q: NOW, DID YOU TAKE THEM STEPPING UP OVER THE BODY OF NICOLE AND DOWN THE PATHWAY?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: WE WENT -- AFTER I SHOWED THEM THE INITIAL CRIME SCENE, WE WENT DOWN TO DOROTHY, WENT AROUND TO THE REAR. I SHOWED THEM THE JEEP, THE CHANGE ON THE GROUND, THE BLOOD ON THE DRIVEWAY. I TOOK SERGEANT ROSSI TO THE GATE, SHOWED HIM THE BLOOD ON THE GATE AND WE WENT APPROXIMATELY HALFWAY DOWN THE WALKWAY. I SHOWED THE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS.

MS. CLARK: ONE MOMENT, OFFICER.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY, ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 49.

THE COURT: 49, PHOTOGRAPH.

(PEO'S 49 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: NO. BACK IT UP, JOHN. PULL IT BACK.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OFFICER, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE'RE SHOWING YOU HERE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: IT'S PRETTY DARK.

A: THERE'S NO STREET SIGN.

Q: YOU SEE THE POLICE CARS THERE?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: AND YOU SEE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LOCATION, WHAT CORNER THAT IS, WHAT THAT INTERSECTION IS?

A: NOT WITHOUT A STREET SIGN, NO.

MS. CLARK: GO AHEAD. MARK THIS AS PEOPLE'S 50.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 50. (PEO'S 50 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MS. CLARK: YES. CAN YOU ZOOM IN ON THE STREET SIGN, JOHN?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: HOW GOOD IS YOUR EYESIGHT?

A: WELL, I CAN SEE IT SAYS BUNDY DRIVE.

Q: YEAH.

MS. CLARK: CAN YOU MAKE THE SIGN A LITTLE CLEARER? I CAN'T LOOK.

THE WITNESS: BEFORE. NOT NOW.

MS. CLARK: THERE WE GO.

THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 50, BUNDY DRIVE.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. OKAY. WE GET IT. OKAY. COULD WE BACK UP NOW, SHOW THE INTERSECTION? THANK YOU.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU TELL US NOW WHERE THAT -- WHERE THOSE TWO CARS ARE AND THE CRIME SCENE TAPE, SIR?

A: THAT WOULD BE BUNDY AND DOROTHY.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK, EXCUSE ME. I AM GOING TO RELEASE THE VIDEO ON SOME OF THESE. LET ME KNOW IF ANYTHING SENSITIVE COMES UP.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THE VIEW THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, IS IT LOOKING IN A WESTERLY DIRECTION IF YOU WERE STANDING ON DOROTHY?

A: YES, IT IS.

Q: THE VIEW THAT WE HAD BEFORE, PEOPLE'S -- THAT WAS MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 49, CAN YOU TELL US IF THAT WAS A VIEW LOOKING FROM SOUTH TO NORTH FROM THE -- ON BUNDY?

A: IT WAS LOOKING NORTH.

MS. CLARK: CAN WE GO BACK TO THAT NOW? THANKS.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DOES THAT DEPICT ALSO THE -- IT WOULD BE THE WEST SIDE OF BUNDY?

A: YES. I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE PICTURE WHEN BUNDY WAS CLOSED DOWN. THIS IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE AFTER WE MADE THE CRIME SCENE SMALLER, JUST OF THREE HOUSES. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE -- THIS IS BUNDY DRIVE, BUT IT'S NOT BUNDY AND DOROTHY.

Q: THE CORNER OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY, IS THAT THE CORNER THAT YOU ALL WALKED AROUND?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AND THAT WAS WITH SERGEANT ROSSI AND SERGEANT COON?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHEN YOU WALKED DOWN THAT SIDEWALK, SIR, DOWN BUNDY AROUND THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND ONTO DOROTHY, DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING UNUSUAL ON THE SIDEWALK?

A: JUST BLOODY PAW PRINTS.

Q: AT SOME POINT, DID THEY FADE OUT?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO THEN WHAT PATH DID YOU TAKE WITH SERGEANT ROSSI AND SERGEANT COON?

A: WE WENT BUNDY TO DOROTHY, DOROTHY TO THE MOUTH OF THE ALLEY AND THEN JUST WALKED THROUGH UP TO THE CRIME -- UP TO 875.

Q: LET ME SHOW YOU ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, PEOPLE'S 51.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: ASK THAT THIS BE MARKED 51.

(PEO'S 51 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SIR, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT LOCATION IS DEPICTED HERE AGAIN?

A: THAT IS BUNDY AND DOROTHY.

Q: THAT IS BUNDY AND DOROTHY?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT'S THE -- IN THE LEFT-HAND CORNER WHERE YOU SEE THE POLICE CAR, WOULD THAT BE THE CORNER THAT YOU WALKED AROUND?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU TOOK THEM UP THE ALLEY AND INTO THE REAR AREA THROUGH THE REAR DRIVEWAY AREA?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID YOU POINT OUT THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED TO US EARLIER, THE BLOOD DROPS AND THE CHANGE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WERE THERE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS OUT ON THAT REAR DRIVEWAY?

A: NO.

Q: AND DID YOU TAKE THEM UP, TAKE SERGEANT ROSSI AND SERGEANT COON THROUGH THE REAR GATE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: THAT REAR GATE THAT WE SEE IN --

A: I BELIEVE IT'S JUST SERGEANT ROSSI AND MYSELF.

Q: IT WAS JUST SERGEANT ROSSI AND YOURSELF AT THAT POINT?

A: I BELIEVE. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: ON PEOPLE'S 48, THE BLOOD TRAIL, IN F, YOU SEE THE REAR GATE?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT'S THE GATE THAT LEADS OUT TO THE DRIVEWAY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT IN THROUGH THAT REAR GATE WITH SERGEANT ROSSI, WERE THERE ANY BLOODY SHOEPRINTS AT THAT -- AT THE END OF THE WALKWAY JUST BY THAT REAR GATE?

A: NO.

Q: HOW FAR DID YOU WALK WITH SERGEANT ROSSI?

A: I'D SAY ABOUT HALFWAY. WE --

Q: HALFWAY DOWN THE WALKWAY?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU DID NOT TAKE HIM ALL THE WAY UP TO THE FRONT DOOR?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AS YOU WALKED HIM HALFWAY UP THE WALKWAY, WERE YOU USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WERE YOU POINTING OUT WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU POINT OUT ANY BLOOD DROPS TO HIM?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU POINT THEM OUT?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, HASN'T THIS BEEN COVERED? ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. COCHRAN: THIS HAS BEEN COVERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: JUST FROM THE REAR GATE UP TO WHERE THE -- THE -- WHAT APPEARED TO BE FOOTPRINTS STARTED AGAIN, AND THEN WE STOPPED THERE.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SO THE FOOTPRINTS LED FROM THE BODIES OF THE VICTIMS IN THE DIRECTION UP TOWARDS THE REAR GATE?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. MAY WE APPROACH? OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. MAY WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: YES, WITH THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: WE ARE OVER AT THE SIDEBAR.

MS. CLARK: IT'S FOUNDATIONAL.

THE COURT: NO. YOU'RE COVERING -- YOU ARE COVERING DIFFERENT AREAS SHOWING WHAT SERGEANT ROSSI DID AND ALL OF THAT. BUT IT IS REDUNDANT TO KEEP ASKING HIM, NOW, YOU JUST TOLD US X, Y AND Z, IS THAT CORRECT AFTER HE'S JUST TOLD US --

MR. COCHRAN: OFFICER ROSSI IS THE NEXT WITNESS. JUDGE, I DON'T -- ALL I CAN SAY, IF WE HAVE TO GO OVER THIS TEN TIMES, EVEN THE JURORS ARE GOING TO GET SICK OF THIS. AND ROSSI IS THE NEXT WITNESS. SO HE GOES THROUGH THE HALLWAY, THEN HE TELLS US WHAT HE AND ROSSI DID. NOW, SHE'S TAKING HIM BACK STEP BY STEP. IT'S REDUNDANT AND CUMULATIVE.

THE COURT: ONE OF THE ISSUES THOUGH IS HOW DO THEY CONTAIN THE CRIME SCENE. SO SHE IS ENTITLED TO GO INTO THIS STUFF. BUT YOU'RE RIGHT. THE WAY, YOU KEEP SAYING -- REPEATING THE ANSWER TO CONFIRM THE ANSWER, YOU KNOW, UNLESS MERELY DONE TO UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION, WHICH HAPPENS OCCASIONALLY, BUT --

MS. CLARK: WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS BRING HIM BACK FOUNDATIONALLY TO GO INTO SOMETHING DIFFERENT, AND AT THAT POINT -- BUT I'LL TRY AND DO THAT IN A MORE ARTFUL FASHION.

MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL WAS INARTFUL, I'LL STIPULATE TO THAT. WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT? ANYWAY, YOUR HONOR, AT ANY RATE, THE POINT IS, I MEAN, IT DOESN'T HELP FOR HER TO GO OVER AND OVER AND OVER THIS STUFF. THAT'S ALL I AM TRYING TO SAY AND --

THE COURT: NO. BUT SHE IS ENTITLED TO GO INTO THIS STUFF BECAUSE YOU MADE AN ISSUE OF THE INTEGRITY OF THE CRIME SCENE. SO SHE GETS TO GO INTO HOW THEY DID THIS.

MR. COCHRAN: I'M GLAD SHE IS DOING IT. I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT I WILL STILL BE ABLE TO SHOW AT THE CRIME SCENE, HE WAS WALKING THROUGH IT LIKE THE OTHER PEOPLE WERE.

THE COURT: THE ISSUE IS HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE DID THIS GUY SHOW AROUND THE CRIME SCENE. LOTS. I MEAN --

MS. CLARK: TELL YOU WHAT. IT'S GOING TO --

MR. COCHRAN: THERE'S TWO THINGS COUNSEL CARES ABOUT. BUT I WON'T KNOW UNTIL I GET UP AND START CROSS-EXAMINING, ALL RIGHT, AND THEN --

MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO PUT ON SERGEANT ROSSI, BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO THROUGH EVERYTHING THAT OFFICER RISKE DID BECAUSE HE DIDN'T SEE IT ALL.

MR. COCHRAN: NO. THAT'S NOT THE POINT.

MS. CLARK: I AM CERTAIN, COUNSEL, YOU ARE GOING TO GO INTO AT GREAT LENGTH THE MANNER IN WHICH THE CRIME SCENE WAS NOT PRESERVED, AND WHAT I NEED TO DO WITH THESE OFFICERS, THE FIRST ONES ON THE SCENE, IS INDICATE -- IS LET THEM INDICATE THAT THE SCENE AS DEPICTED IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS IS WHAT THEY FOUND AND PEOPLE WERE CAREFUL, BECAUSE THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH TRAMPLING THROUGH, THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH THROWING EVIDENCE AROUND. WE ALL KNOW THAT'S TRUE.

MR. COCHRAN: YOU DON'T HAVE TO ARGUE WITH ME. I HAVE A VIDEO. SO WE'LL BE ABLE TO SEE.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN MADE HIS OBJECTION. I'M GOING TO OVERRULE THE OBJECTION, BUT AT SOME POINT IN TIME, IT BECOMES REDUNDANT.

MR. COCHRAN: AT SOME POINT. ARE WE CLOSE?

THE COURT: NO. MR. COCHRAN, THIS IS JUST THE FIRST CRIME SCENE WITNESS IN A VERY LARGE AND VERY COMPLEX CRIME SCENE.

MR. COCHRAN: I HOPE THE COURT ALLOWS US THE SAME KIND OF LATITUDE ON OUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

THE COURT: NO. I EXPECT YOU JUST TO SHOW THE VIDEO AND SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND SIT DOWN.

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT. VERY GOOD. I WILL BE DOING THAT.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CONTINUE.

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. WITH REFERENCE TO THOSE FOOTPRINTS, THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS THAT YOU SAW LEADING AWAY FROM THE BODY OF THE VICTIMS TOWARDS THE REAR GATE, WHEN YOU FIRST WALKED DOWN THAT WALKWAY FROM THE -- AFTER YOU EXITED THE FRONT DOOR OF THE CONDOMINIUM GOING TOWARDS THE REAR GATE, DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER THE SHOEPRINTS CONTINUED ALL THE WAY TO THE REAR GATE OR NOT?

A: NO, THEY DIDN'T. THEY FADED OUT.

Q: THEY FADED OUT?

A: YES.

Q: AT WHAT POINT?

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS AFTER THE SECOND LANDING GOING DOWN THE STAIRS, FROM THE SECOND LANDING THEY FADED.

Q: WAS THAT ABOUT HALFWAY?

A: YES.

Q: HALFWAY DOWN BEFORE YOU GOT TO THE REAR GATE?

A: YES.

Q: SO WHEN YOU TOOK SERGEANT ROSSI IN THROUGH THE REAR GATE, YOU TOOK HIM UP AS FAR AS THE LAST BLOODY SHOEPRINT?

MR. COCHRAN: IT'S BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED?

A: WE JUST -- WE TURNED AROUND, WENT BACK OUT AND WE RETURNED TO THE FRONT ON BUNDY.

Q: NOW, AGAIN, WHEN YOU TURNED AROUND, WENT BACK OUT, WERE YOU USING YOUR FLASHLIGHT TO SEE WHAT WAS ON THE WALKWAY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU AVOID THE BLOOD DROPS?

A: YES.

Q: AT THAT POINT THAT YOU WERE WALKING BACK WITH HIM, THERE WERE NO MORE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS?

A: NO, THERE WEREN'T.

Q: AND DID THOSE SHOEPRINTS APPEAR TO GET LIGHTER AND LIGHTER AS YOU WENT FARTHER DOWN THE WALKWAY TOWARD THE REAR GATE?

A: FROM THE FRONT?

Q: YES.

A: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. BUT HE'S ALREADY TESTIFIED THAT IT FADED OUT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. AFTER YOU EXITED THE REAR GATE WITH SERGEANT ROSSI, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WE RETURNED TO THE FRONT ON BUNDY.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU STAY?

A: IN THE STREET.

Q: NOT ON THE SIDEWALK?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN ARRIVED.

Q: DETECTIVE RON PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE MARK FUHRMAN THAT ARRIVED?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN THEY ARRIVED?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I WOULD ONLY BE GUESSING. I DON'T --

Q: WAS IT LIKE A COUPLE HOURS AFTER YOU FIRST GOT THERE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHERE DID THEY PULL UP TO? WHERE DID YOU FIRST SEE THEM?

A: THEY PARKED ON -- BE THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY AND THEY PARKED ON DOROTHY.

Q: NOW, AT THIS POINT, WHO WAS ALREADY AT THE LOCATION, WHICH PEOPLE THAT YOU SAW?

A: MYSELF AND MY PARTNER.

Q: OFFICER TERRAZAS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT. OFFICER MC GOWAN, OFFICER WALLY, BUT THEY HAD GONE UP TO GORHAM AND DOROTHY AND BLOCKED TRAFFIC. SERGEANT COON WAS THERE, SERGEANT ROSSI, OFFICER CHAVEZ AND CUMMINGS, OFFICER GLORIOSO, ZEIGLER AND OFFICER ASTON. I DON'T KNOW WHO HIS PARTNER WAS.

Q: GONZALEZ?

A: YES. OFFICER GONZALEZ.

Q: AND WERE THESE PEOPLE ALL GUARDING THE PERIMETER?

MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. REPHRASE THE QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: WHAT WERE THESE PEOPLE DOING?

A: OFFICER CUMMINGS WAS MAINTAINING CONTROL OF THE CRIME SCENE LOG, WHO ARRIVED AND WHO LEFT. OFFICER GONZALEZ AND ASTON WERE KNOCKING ON THE NEIGHBORS' DOORS, SEE IF THEY HEARD OR SAW ANYTHING. OFFICER TERRAZAS WAS IN THE BACK GUARDING THE BACK.

Q: GUARDING THE BACK?

A: THAT'S CORRECT. OFFICER SANCHEZ WAS GUARDING THE FRONT WITH SERGEANT COON AND I BELIEVE GLORIOSO AND ZEIGLER WERE ALSO KNOCKING ON DOORS.

Q: AND AT THAT POINT -- AND SERGEANT ROSSI WAS THERE AS WELL?

A: SERGEANT ROSSI WITH ME, YES.

Q: AND AFTER ALL THOSE PEOPLE WERE THERE ABOUT TWO HOURS AFTER YOU GOT TO THE SCENE, DETECTIVES RON PHILLIPS AND MARK FUHRMAN ARRIVED?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY ARRIVED?

A: THEY MET WITH SERGEANT ROSSI, SERGEANT COON AND MYSELF. WE WENT OVER WHAT WE HAD. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, PHILLIPS, SERGEANT COON AND I APPROACHED THE FRONT ON THE GRASS. I SHOWED THEM THE CRIME SCENE WE HAD IN THE FRONT. UMM, DETECTIVE --

Q: EXCUSE ME. LET ME STOP YOU THERE, SIR. WHEN YOU SAY YOU APPROACHED THE CRIME SCENE ON THE GRASS, WAS THAT THE SAME ROUTE THAT YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR US BEFORE TO THE LEFT OF THE WALKWAY AS YOU FACE IT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT. IT WAS TO THE LEFT OF THE PLANTS ON THE WALKWAY.

MS. CLARK: CAN WE CUT THE FEED, YOUR HONOR?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, SHOWN IN -- THIS IS PEOPLE'S 43, 43-B. ONCE AGAIN, IS THAT TO THE LEFT OF THE WALKWAY SHOWN THERE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU TOOK THAT SAME PATH AS YOU DID BEFORE?

A: NO. THERE'S GRASS TO THE LEFT OF THIS AND WE WALKED IN THE GRASS (INDICATING).

Q: YOU'RE GESTURING OVER TO THE LEFT-HAND SIDE OF THE PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, WE MIGHT NEED TO KILL THE FEED FOR THIS.

MS. CLARK: YES. I ALREADY TOLD HIM.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU TAKE THEM ALL THE WAY UP TO THE CALL BOX THAT YOU DESCRIBED EARLIER?

A: NO. WE STAYED IN THE GRASS TO THE LEFT OF THE FOLIAGE.

Q: AND AT THIS POINT, WHO WAS STANDING ON THE GRASS WITH YOU?

A: IT'S DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS, I BELIEVE SERGEANT COON AND MYSELF.

Q: AND DID YOU HAVE YOUR FLASHLIGHT?

A: YES.

Q: SO IT WAS ABOUT 2:30 IN THE MORNING AT THIS POINT?

A: I BELIEVE. I'M NOT SURE WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU SHOW THEM?

A: I SHOWED THEM THE TWO BODIES, THE EVIDENCE I HAD SEEN, THE ENVELOPE, THE HAT, THE GLOVE.

Q: AND THEY ALL OBSERVED IT FROM THAT POSITION ON THE GRASS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?

A: WE THEN -- I TOOK THEM AROUND TO THE NEIGHBOR'S YARD, I SHOWED THEM WHERE THE PAGER WAS LAYING, THE BODY OF MR. GOLDMAN.

Q: SO YOU TOOK THEM AROUND TO THE SIDE THAT'S SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S -- EXCUSE ME -- 43-A OUTSIDE THIS GATED AREA?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU LET THEM SEE --

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, REPEATING WHAT HE SAID.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: THAT'S 47 --

MR. COCHRAN: I MOVE TO STRIKE THAT, EVERYTHING SHE SAID.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 47 --

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 47-A AROUND THE OUTSIDE OF THAT GATE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?

A: THEN THE TWO DETECTIVES, I BELIEVE BOTH SERGEANTS AND MYSELF WALKED AROUND DOWN BUNDY TO DOROTHY, DOROTHY TO THE REAR ALLEY AND WENT TO THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q: OKAY. THE SAME PATH THAT YOU TOOK BEFORE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, MAY I ASK THAT THE PHOTOGRAPHS WE'RE GOING TO PUT UP NOW ON THE ELMO BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 52?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 52.

(PEO'S 52 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 52, SIR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S BEING SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHAT'S THAT?

A: THAT'S THE REAR OF 875 AND THE JEEP THAT WAS IN THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU FIRST GOT TO THE LOCATION SHORTLY AFTER MIDNIGHT, THE FIRST TIME YOU WENT BACK TO THE REAR AREA THAT'S SHOWN IN PEOPLE'S 52, WAS THE JEEP IN THAT POSITION?

A: YES.

Q: OUTSIDE THE GARAGE?

A: YES.

Q: BUT THE GARAGE DOOR WAS CLOSED?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO YOU CAME AROUND THE CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND UP THE ALLEY --

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: -- WITH DETECTIVES PHILLIPS, FUHRMAN AND SERGEANT COON?

A: AND SERGEANT ROSSI.

Q: AND SERGEANT ROSSI. SO IT WAS FIVE OF YOU.

A: RIGHT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHERE DID YOU GO?

A: WE WENT TO THE DRIVEWAY, SHOWED THEM THE DOOR THAT WAS AJAR AND THE JEEP, THE CHANGE AND THE BLOOD ON THE DRIVEWAY. I WAS SHOWING DETECTIVE FUHRMAN THE BLOOD THAT WAS ON THE GATE.

Q: THE REAR GATE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT. AND SERGEANT ROSSI AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WALKED DOWN THE WALKWAY PROBABLY HALFWAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A SERIES OF PHOTOGRAPHS I WOULD ASK BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 53.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 53, CHART WITH PHOTOS.

MS. CLARK: AND THEY WILL BE LABELED.

THE COURT: THANK YOU. (PEO'S 53 FOR ID = CHART WITH PHOTOS)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU -- LET ME LET YOU LOOK AT THAT FOR A MINUTE TO ORIENT YOURSELF.

MS. CLARK: CAN EVERYBODY SEE THAT?

THE WITNESS: OKAY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU SEE WHAT'S -- FIRST OF ALL, IN GENERAL, WHAT LOCATION IS SHOWN ON PEOPLE'S 53?

A: THAT'S THE REAR GATE OF 875 BUNDY.

Q: NOW, WHAT WILL BE LABELED AS PHOTOGRAPH 53-A, IS THIS TAKEN FROM INSIDE OR OUTSIDE THE GATE?

A: THAT'S INSIDE THE GATE.

Q: SO THAT WOULD BE -- SO THAT'S FROM INSIDE THE GATE AND YOU ARE FACING OUT TOWARD THE ALLEY?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: I'LL LET YOU USE THIS. CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU SEE WHERE YOU SAW BLOOD DROPS ON THE REAR GATE ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH?

A: THERE WAS BLOOD AT THE BOTTOM, THERE WAS BLOOD ON THIS LATCH, THERE WAS BLOOD AT THE TOP AND MY PARTNER DIRECTED MY ATTENTION TO BLOOD ON THE OUTSIDE ON THE GRATING.

Q: AND DO YOU SEE THAT BLOOD DESIGNATED BY SOME KIND OF MARKER IN WHAT WILL BE LABELED AS 53-E?

A: WHICH ONE IS THAT?

Q: LET'S SEE. THIS ONE IS A, SECOND PHOTOGRAPH HERE SHOWING THE BLOOD DROPS YOU'VE INDICATED AT THE BOTTOM RUNG IS B, CLOSER UP IS C AND CLOSER UP IN D. IN E AND F, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT'S SHOWN THERE?

A: THIS IS THE OUTSIDE OF THE REAR GATE AND THAT WILL BE WHERE THE BLOOD WAS.

Q: AND A CLOSER-UP VIEW OF THAT IN F?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, IF I MAY, I'M GOING TO ASK TO SHOW THIS TO THE REST OF THE JURY.

THE COURT: YES.

THE WITNESS: WANT ME TO COME WITH --

Q: BY MS. CLARK: YOU WANT TO GO AND POINT IT OUT AGAIN, SIR? KEEP YOUR VOICE UP.

A: THIS WOULD BE THE INTERIOR OF THE REAR GATE. THIS WOULD BE BLOOD ON THE BOTTOM RUNG ON THE INSIDE OF THE GATE. THIS IS A CLOSER-UP PICTURE OF BLOOD ON THE BOTTOM. THIS IS EVEN CLOSER. THIS IS THE OUTSIDE OF THE REAR GATE. THE BLOOD WOULD BE ON THE GRATING, AND THIS IS A CLOSER-UP PICTURE OF THE BLOOD ON THE GRATING.

Q: THANK YOU, SIR. ALL RIGHT. SO AFTER YOU ALL WENT INSIDE THE REAR GATE, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: WELL, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND I WENT TO THE REAR GATE. WE DIDN'T GO INSIDE, AND SERGEANT ROSSI AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WENT ABOUT HALFWAY DOWN THE WALK.

Q: SO YOU STAYED OUTSIDE THE REAR GATE WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO THERE?

A: I SHOWED HIM THE BLOOD ON THE REAR GATE AND, LIKE I SAID, THE BLOOD IN THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND SERGEANT ROSSI CAME OUT OF THE WALKWAY THROUGH THE REAR GATE AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, PHILLIPS AND I ENTERED THE HOUSE THROUGH THE GARAGE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BY THAT TIME, THE GARAGE WAS ALREADY OPENED?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: OKAY. AND SO HOW MANY OF YOU WALKED IN THROUGH THE GARAGE?

A: THREE OF US.

Q: AND THAT WAS YOU AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS --

A: FUHRMAN.

Q: -- AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: PHILLIPS.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: AS SOON AS WE ENTERED THE HOUSE FROM THE GARAGE, I SHOWED THEM THE ICE CREAM AND THE SPOON WAS ON THE GROUND. WE DID A QUICK WALK THROUGH THE HOUSE AND THEN WE WENT OUT TO THE FRONT LANDING.

Q: HAD YOU NOTICED WHEN YOU FIRST WERE INSIDE THE HOUSE THAT THE SPOON THAT WAS IN THAT ICE CREAM CUP WAS ON THE GROUND?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU?

A: IT LOOKED LIKE THE ICE CREAM HAD MELTED AND THE SPOON HAD FELL ON THE FLOOR. IT WAS DIRECTLY UNDERNEATH THE ICE CREAM.

Q: UH-HUH. WHERE DID YOU WALK THEM THROUGH INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: WE LOOKED AT THE MAIN LEVEL AND WENT UP, I SHOWED THEM THE KIDS'S BEDROOMS AND THE MASTER BEDROOM. WE WENT OUT ON THE, LIKE I SAID, THE WORKOUT AREA, LOOKED DOWN INTO THE LIVING AREA. THEN WE CAME BACK DOWN AND WENT OUT TO THE FRONT LANDING.

Q: AND WHEN YOU CAME OUT ONTO THE FRONT LANDING, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE BOTH OF THE VICTIMS THERE?

A: YES.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A BOARD THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL, ASK THIS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 54?

THE COURT: 54.

(PEO'S 54 FOR ID = BOARD)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE PEOPLE'S 54, SIR?

A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: IF YOU CAN SEE THE DIAGRAM WITH THE OUTLINES OF THE BODIES IN YELLOW, CAN YOU TELL US IF THAT IS THE RELATIVE POSITION OF THE BODIES TO EACH OTHER AT THE CRIME SCENE AS YOU FOUND IT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, IF YOU WOULD, SIR --

A: I THINK HER HEAD WAS ACTUALLY CLOSER TO THE STAIRS THOUGH.

Q: CLOSER BACK TO THE STAIRS?

A: RIGHT.

Q: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE --

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU DESCRIBE FOR US, SIR, THE AREA WHERE THE BODIES WERE FOUND IN TERMS OF SPACE, IN TERMS OF HOW LARGE THAT SPACE IS?

A: I WOULD ESTIMATE FROM THE NORTH FENCE TO THE FOILAGE ON THE LEFT OF THE WALKWAY, PROBABLY 10 FEET AND MAYBE SIX FEET LONG.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, WAS THAT A FAIRLY SMALL ENCLOSED AREA?

A: YES.

Q: SO WHEN YOU STOOD AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING, DID YOU POINT OUT -- DID YOU USE YOUR FLASHLIGHT AT THAT POINT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: I POINTED OUT THE EVIDENCE THAT I HAD SEEN. I SHOWED HIM THE BLOODY FOOTPRINTS AND THE WALKWAY.

Q: OKAY.

A: THE TWO VICTIMS.

Q: AND DID YOU SHOW THEM, AGAIN, THE ENVELOPE, THE CAP, THE GLOVE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND YOU WERE ABLE TO SEE THAT FROM STANDING UP ON THE LANDING?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DID YOU DO AFTER THAT?

A: THEY LOOKED AROUND -- JUST STANDING THERE, THEY LOOKED AND THEY LOOKED AT THE STEPS LEADING TOWARDS THE REAR -- I MEAN THE BLOODY SHOEPRINTS LEADING TOWARDS THE REAR, THEN WE WENT BACK INTO THE HOUSE AND I BELIEVE SERGEANT COON GOT A HOLD OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND TOLD HIM THAT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER HAD ARRIVED. DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND I STAYED IN THE HOUSE AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WENT OUT TO MEET WITH THE LIEUTENANT.

MS. CLARK: EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR. COULD WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: SURE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: WE ARE OVER AT SIDEBAR.

MS. CLARK: I WAS JUST WONDERING WHY COUNSEL FEELS THE NEED TO STAND WITHIN 10 INCHES OF ME WHILE I'M DOING THIS QUESTIONING.

THE COURT: BECAUSE HE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO SEE THE CHART.

MR. COCHRAN: I CAN'T SEE THE CHART.

MS. CLARK: HOW ABOUT IF I TURN IT, HAVE IT --

MR. COCHRAN: I STILL CAN'T SEE IT OVER THERE.

MS. CLARK: IT'S A VERY SIMPLE CHART, YOUR HONOR, AND I KNOW THAT COUNSEL HAS SEEN QUITE A LOT OF IT IN GREAT DETAIL.

THE COURT: NO. BUT HE NEEDS TO SEE WHAT THE WITNESS IS POINTING TO.

MS. CLARK: HE'S NOT POINTING TO ANYTHING.

THE COURT: WELL, WE DON'T --

MR. COCHRAN: HOW DO I KNOW THAT?

THE COURT: SEE, MARCIA, IT'S A BAD ANGLE. IT'S JUST A BAD ANGLE.

MS. CLARK: IF I TURNED IT --

MR. COCHRAN: I HAVEN'T SEEN HALF OF THESE THINGS. I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HALF THE TIME. OF COURSE, I'M NOT THE ONE THAT HAS TO BE ABLE TO SEE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

MS. CLARK: I AGREE IF I TILT IT SO THAT COUNSEL CAN SEE IT FROM COUNSEL TABLE, PERHAPS HE CAN GET --

THE COURT: THEN THE JURY IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT.

MS. CLARK: ACTUALLY --

MR. COCHRAN: I'M NOT BOTHERING HER. I'M STANDING BEHIND HER.

THE COURT: I KNOW. HE'S NOT SAYING ANYTHING. HE'S NOT PUTTING RABBIT EARS BEHIND YOUR HEAD OR ANYTHING.

MS. CLARK: I NEVER KNOW WHEN HE WILL, YOUR HONOR.

MR. COCHRAN: I DIDN'T DO THAT. I'M STANDING THERE NOT TALKING.

THE COURT: HE'S ENTITLED TO SEE WHAT IT IS YOU ARE DOING.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

THE COURT: LET ME MAKE ONE OTHER COMMENT TO YOU OFF THE RECORD.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. COCHRAN, IF YOU'D LIKE, YOU CAN JUST SIT THERE.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: YOU ARE WELCOME.

MR. COCHRAN: APPRECIATE THAT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, YOU'RE JUST USING THE DIAGRAMS, CORRECT?

MS. CLARK: THAT'S RIGHT.

THE COURT: THERE'S NOTHING ELSE WE'RE GOING TO SEE ON THIS?

MS. CLARK: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, FROM YOUR POSITION AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING, WERE YOU ABLE TO POINT OUT ALL OF THE EVIDENCE YOU'VE DESCRIBED TO US?

A: YES.

Q: AND IS THAT WHERE THE DETECTIVES STAYED BY, AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING AT THAT POINT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THEN YOU INDICATED THAT THEY WENT WHERE?

A: THEY JUST -- THEY STAYED ON THE LANDING AND LOOKED AT THE SHOEPRINTS THAT CONTINUED WESTBOUND TOWARDS THE REAR.

Q: AND THEY LOOKED AT THAT FROM THEIR VANTAGE POINT AT THE TOP OF THE LANDING?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHERE DID THEY GO AFTER THAT?

A: I BELIEVE LIEUTENANT SPANGLER ARRIVED. I DON'T REMEMBER IF SERGEANT COON YELLED TO PHILLIPS OR GOT HIM ON THE RADIO TO TELL HIM HE WAS HERE. BUT FUHRMAN AND I WENT IN THE HOUSE, STAYED IN THE KITCHEN AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS WENT OUT TO MEET THE LIEUTENANT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW WHAT ROUTE DETECTIVE PHILLIPS TOOK TO EXIT THE CONDOMINIUM?

A: HE WENT THROUGH THE HOUSE DOWN THE STAIRS AND THROUGH THE GARAGE.

Q: OKAY. SO HE WENT OUT THE BACK?

A: THAT IS CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU STAYED INSIDE THE HOUSE WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU DOING INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: JUST STANDING IN THE KITCHEN, KIND OF LOOKING AROUND. I BELIEVE THERE WAS A JACKET IN THERE, A BLUE JEAN JACKET. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IF IT WAS ONE OF THE VICTIMS.

Q: AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND I BELIEVE HE WAS ACCOMPANIED BY THE LIEUTENANT, CAME IN THE HOUSE AND I EXITED THE REAR AND JUST STAYED BY MY PARTNER.

Q: SO DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CAME BACK INSIDE. AND WHEN YOU SAY INSIDE, INTO THE CONDOMINIUM?

A: INTO THE KITCHEN AND MET WITH FUHRMAN.

Q: AND WHEN HE CAME IN AND MET WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, YOU LEFT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHAT ROUTE DID YOU TAKE TO LEAVE?

A: I WENT THROUGH THE HOUSE DOWN THE STAIRS AND OUT THE GARAGE.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU GO AT THAT POINT?

A: I WENT OUT TO THE PATROL CAR THAT WAS PARKED IN THE ALLEY AND JUST SAT WITH MY PARTNER.

Q: WHAT WERE YOU DOING?

A: JUST MAINTAINING SECURITY. WE HAD BEEN RELIEVED BY THE DETECTIVES. THEY ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY.

Q: SO AT THAT POINT, YOU WERE JUST MAINTAINING THE SECURITY OF THE LOCATION IN THE REAR OF THE CONDOMINIUM?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THAT WAS -- YOU STOOD IN OR OUTSIDE THE CRIME SCENE TAPE?

A: OUTSIDE.

Q: DID ANYONE ENTER THROUGH THE CRIME SCENE TAPE THAT WAS NOT AUTHORIZED TO DO SO WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

A: NO.

Q: IN EITHER THE FRONT OR THE BACK?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU EVER GO BACK -- AFTER YOU WENT OUT AND STOOD IN THE REAR ALLEY AREA, DID YOU EVER GO BACK INTO THE CRIME SCENE AGAIN?

A: WITH A PHOTOGRAPHER.

Q: PARDON?

A: WITH A PHOTOGRAPHER.

Q: AND WHEN WAS THAT, SIR?

A: UMM, IN THE BACK, IT WAS PROBABLY 10 OR 15 MINUTES AFTER I HAD BEEN RELIEVED BY THE DETECTIVES. AND IN THE FRONT, IT WAS WHEN IT WAS STARTING TO GET DAYLIGHT.

Q: NOW, IN THE BACK, WAS THAT -- HOW LONG AFTER YOUR EXITING THE CONDOMINIUM DID THE PHOTOGRAPHER COME AND START TAKING PICTURES OF THE BACK?

A: I BELIEVE THE PHOTOGRAPHER BEAT THE DETECTIVES THERE AND I WAS IN THE BACK PROBABLY 20 MINUTES WHEN HE CAME BACK AND STARTED TAKING PICTURES.

Q: OKAY. AND TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, HAD HE TAKEN PICTURES IN THE FRONT YET, IF YOU KNOW?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: AFTER HE TOOK -- DID YOU SHOW HIM WHERE TO TAKE PICTURES IN THE BACK?

A: I SHOWED HIM SOME BLOOD, TOLD HIM ABOUT THE ICE CREAM ON THE BANISTER AND THAT'S ABOUT IT.

Q: DID YOU SHOW HIM THE CHANGE AND THE BLOOD DROPS ON THE REAR DRIVEWAY?

A: YES, SO HE WOULDN'T STEP IN IT.

Q: AND DID YOU -- HOW LONG DID YOU STAY OUT THERE IN THE REAR AREA, REAR ALLEY?

A: I WOULD ESTIMATE TILL 5:30, AROUND 5:30, AND THEN WE WENT TO THE FRONT.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO IN THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

A: WE OPENED BUNDY UP TO VEHICULAR TRAFFIC. SO WE JUST -- ALL WE HAD WAS A CRIME SCENE FROM THE HOUSE NORTH, NICOLE'S HOUSE, AND THE HOUSE SOUTH, AND WE JUST MAINTAINED -- WE SAT IN FRONT OF THAT CRIME SCENE.

Q: OKAY. SO WAS ANYONE ALLOWED TO WALK ON THE SIDEWALK IN FRONT OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: NO.

Q: WAS ANYONE ALLOWED TO WALK ON THE WALKWAY AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: NO.

Q: SO WHERE DID YOU STAND IN FRONT OF THE LOCATION, SIR?

A: WE ACTUALLY MOVED OUR VEHICLE AND PARKED IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE -- IN FRONT OF 875 SO THE WALKWAY WASN'T VISIBLE FROM THE STREET.

Q: SO YOU BLOCKED THE VIEW?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WERE YOU SEATED IN YOUR CAR OR STANDING OUTSIDE OF IT?

A: SEATED, STANDING. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Q: WAS THAT DONE INTENTIONALLY, BLOCKING THE VIEW OF THE WALKWAY, SIR?

A: YES.

Q: WHY?

A: SO WE DIDN'T WANT PASSERSBY TO LOOK DOWN THERE AND SEE WHAT IT WAS, TRYING TO KEEP THE MEDIA OUT.

Q: AND BY THE TIME YOU CAME AROUND TO THE FRONT, WAS IT STARTING TO GET LIGHT?

A: NO. IT WAS --

Q: STILL DARK?

A: STILL DARK.

Q: WHAT DID YOU DO OUT FRONT?

A: LIKE I SAID, MAINTAINED SECURITY OF THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: AT SOME POINT, A PHOTOGRAPHER ARRIVED?

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED. HE SAID THE PHOTOGRAPHER WAS ALREADY THERE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DID YOU HAVE CONTACT WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHER IN THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WAS IT DAYLIGHT BY THEN?

A: I HAD TALKED TO HIM EARLIER, BUT HE HADN'T TAKEN ANY PICTURES OF THE FRONT WHILE I WAS THERE. THEN HE CAME -- IT WAS JUST STARTING TO GET DAYLIGHT, AND HE CAME AND HE TOOK A COUPLE PICTURES.

Q: NOW, WAS THIS THE SAME PHOTOGRAPHER YOU HAD CONTACTED EARLIER AT THE REAR OF THE LOCATION, THE REAR ALLEY?

A: YES, IT WAS.

Q: WHEN HE CAME TO THE FRONT OF THE LOCATION AND IT WAS LIGHTER, DID YOU POINT ANYTHING OUT TO HIM?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU SEE HIM TAKING PICTURES IN THAT FRONT AREA?

A: I SAW DETECTIVE FUHRMAN. HE WAS SHOWING HIM THE GLOVE AND HE TOOK A PICTURE OF THE GLOVE.

Q: OKAY. HE WAS POINTING TO IT?

A: I BELIEVE HE LIFTED UP THE LEAVES AND THE PLANTS SO HE COULD SEE IT BETTER AND HE TOOK A PICTURE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MS. CLARK AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)

MS. CLARK: THE FEED IS CUT, YOUR HONOR? I AM SORRY. I FORGOT THE FEED WAS EVER ON AGAIN.

THE COURT: WELL, I ASSUME SOMEBODY UPSTAIRS CAUGHT THAT.

MS. CLARK: THIS HAS NOT BEEN PREVIOUSLY MARKED I THINK. SO WE SHOULD MARK IT AS PEOPLE'S 54? 5? THANK YOU.

(PEO'S 55 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PERSON IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH, SIR?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: WHO IS THAT?

A: IT'S DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND THE VICTIM.

Q: AND WHAT'S HE POINTING TO?

A: HE'S POINTING TO THE GLOVE.

Q: THE GLOVE AND THE CAP?

A: THE CAP.

Q: THE ONES THAT YOU SAW WHEN YOU ARRIVED SHORTLY AFTER MIDNIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO -- LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING. WHAT'S HE WEARING THERE, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: LOOKS LIKE WHITE SUIT SHIRT, PAIR OF SLACKS.

Q: NO JACKET?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, IN THAT PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH, YOU HAD SAID THAT THE LEAVES OF THE PLANT KIND OF HUNG OVER THAT ONE GLOVE AND THE SKI CAP?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THAT ACTUALLY YOU HAD TO LEFT IT UP TO SEE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: NOW, AT THIS POINT, THE LEAVES ARE NOT LIFTED UP; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: I BELIEVE THAT'S HIS LEFT HAND HOLDING THE LEAVES BACK AND HIS RIGHT HAND POINTING TO THE --

MS. CLARK: PULL BACK A LITTLE BIT, JONATHAN.

THE WITNESS: OH, NEVER MIND. THAT'S THE SHOE OF THE VICTIM?

Q: BY MS. CLARK: THE SHOE OF THE VICTIM. SO HE'S JUST POINTING TO IT WITH HIS RIGHT HAND?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU WERE RELIEVED FROM THIS CRIME SCENE?

A: 7:15.

Q: AT 7:15?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND HOW -- IN RELATIONSHIP TO THAT TIME THAT YOU LEFT THE CRIME SCENE, WHEN DID DETECTIVE FUHRMAN APPEAR AND POINT THINGS OUT TO THE PHOTOGRAPHER?

A: I WOULD SAY WITHIN 40 MINUTES. I'M NOT REALLY SURE. WITHIN AN HOUR.

Q: SO IT WAS SHORTLY BEFORE YOU LEFT --

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: -- THE CRIME SCENE COMPLETELY?

A: RIGHT.

THE COURT: DO YOU NEED THIS PHOTO ANYMORE?

MS. CLARK: NO, THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. NOW, BETWEEN THE -- WERE YOU EVER AWARE THAT DETECTIVES LEFT THE BUNDY LOCATION?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU INDICATED THAT I BELIEVE THAT YOU SAW DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN INSIDE THE CONDOMINIUM AND THEN YOU WENT OUTSIDE AND STAYED IN BACK.

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU -- WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THE DETECTIVES LEFT FOR ANOTHER LOCATION?

A: IN THE FRONT.

Q: AND AT THAT POINT, SIR, YOU HAD ALREADY COME AROUND TO THE FRONT, YOU WERE STANDING GUARD THERE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. REFOUNDATIONAL I ASSUME.

MS. CLARK: YES.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, HOW LONG DID YOU STAY IN THE REAR AREA?

A: MAYBE -- MAYBE AN HOUR, AN HOUR AND A HALF.

Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE DOING THAT, WERE OTHER PEOPLE GUARDING THE FRONT AREA?

A: AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES, THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Q: WHEN YOU LEFT THE REAR AREA TO GO TO THE FRONT, DID SOMEONE RELIEVE YOU AND MAINTAIN THE GUARD IN THE BACK?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE STANDING IN FRONT, IS THAT WHEN THE DETECTIVES LEFT FOR ANOTHER LOCATION?

A: YES. DETECTIVE PHILLIPS ACTUALLY APPROACHED ME, GAVE ME A CELLULAR PHONE AND SAID THEY WERE GOING TO THE -- ROCKINGHAM. THEY ASKED ME DIRECTIONS TO GET THERE.

Q: AND DID YOU ASSIST THEM BY GIVING DIRECTIONS?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT LOCATION?

A: YES. THAT AREA, NOT THAT LOCATION.

Q: YOU MEAN THE BRENTWOOD AREA UP NORTH OF SUNSET?

A: YEAH.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER AT THIS TIME.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY.

THE COURT: YOU WANT TO START NOW?

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I THINK WE MIGHT AS WELL USE EVERY MINUTE.

THE COURT: EVERY PRECIOUS MINUTE.

MR. COCHRAN: EVERY PRECIOUS MINUTE WE USE, YOUR HONOR.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: I'LL STILL SAY GOOD MORNING, MR. RISKE.

A: GOOD MORNING, SIR.

Q: YOU HAD BEEN A POLICE OFFICER FOR HOW LONG ON JUNE 12TH, 1994 WHEN YOU RESPONDED TO THIS LOCATION?

A: UMM, FOUR YEARS, ALMOST TWO MONTHS.

Q: FOUR YEARS, TWO MONTHS AT THAT TIME?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND YOUR PARTNER OFFICER WAS OFFICER TERRAZAS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND AS BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU, WHO WAS THE SENIOR OFFICER?

A: I WAS.

Q: AND HE HAD BEEN THERE LESS THAN YOU HAD, LESS TIME THAN YOU HAD, LAPD?

A: YES. I BELIEVE HE HAD SEVEN MONTHS IN THE STREET, SIX MONTHS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAD WORKED THE ENTIRE FOUR-YEAR PERIOD OF TIME IN THE WEST LOS ANGELES AREA; IS THAT CORRECT, SIR?

A: NO, SIR.

Q: WHERE HAD YOU STARTED WORKING WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED?

A: CENTRAL.

Q: DOWNTOWN?

A: DOWNTOWN.

Q: AND HOW LONG PRIOR TO JUNE 12TH, 1994 HAD YOU BEEN AT -- IN WEST LOS ANGELES?

A: TWO YEARS, EIGHT MONTHS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND SO THAT WE GET THE CHRONOLOGY OF HIERARCHY THERE, YOU WERE A PATROL PERSON; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHO WAS YOUR IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR?

A: THAT NIGHT?

Q: ON THAT NIGHT.

A: SERGEANT COON WAS THE FIELD SUPERVISOR.

Q: SERGEANT COON?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND HE'S NO RELATION TO THE OTHER SERGEANT COON.

A: NOT AS FAR AS I KNOW.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AS FAR AS YOU KNOW; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND ABOVE SERGEANT COON, WHO CAME NEXT?

A: WATCH COMMANDER WAS SERGEANT ROSSI.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND HE AT SOME POINT RESPONDED TO THE LOCATION?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND ABOVE SERGEANT ROSSI WAS WHOM?

A: JUST -- THAT WAS IT. AREA COMMANDER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND WHAT ABOUT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER? HOW DID HE FIT IN THE HIERARCHY?

A: LIEUTENANT SPANGLER IS A LIEUTENANT OF DETECTIVES OF WEST L.A.

Q: SO HE WOULD BE ABOVE ROSSI?

A: HE'S ACTUALLY ABOVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO AS I UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS, YOU AS THE RESPONDING PATROL OFFICER WORKED AT THAT SCENE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE DETECTIVES RESPONDED?

A: RIGHT. UNTIL THEY TAKE IT OVER.

Q: AND THE DETECTIVES, WHEN THEY RESPONDED, THAT WAS MARK FUHRMAN AND DETECTIVE PHILLIPS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND IT'S YOUR RECOLLECTION THEY GOT THERE AROUND 2:30 IN THE MORNING; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME THEY GOT THERE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK MENTIONED TO YOU IT WAS ABOUT TWO HOURS OR SO AFTER YOU ARRIVED.

A: RIGHT.

Q: YOU DON'T QUARREL WITH THAT THOUGH, DO YOU?

A: I WOULD ONLY BE GUESSING, SIR. I DON'T KNOW. I DIDN'T HAVE THE CRIME SCENE LOG.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND IF YOU WERE TO SEE A LOG OF WHEN THE OFFICERS GOT THERE, THAT WOULD REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION, WOULD IT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: NOW, LET'S START WITH YOU. YOU ARRIVED THERE AT ABOUT 12:13 A.M.; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU ARRIVED THERE WITHIN FOUR MINUTES OF THE TIME THAT YOU RECEIVED THIS 459 PROWLER CALL AT MISS ELSIE TISTAERT'S RESIDENCE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND WHEN YOU ARRIVED THERE, YOU AND YOUR PARTNER, OFFICER TERRAZAS, WERE THE FIRST OFFICERS THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: NOW, YOU DESCRIBED FOR MISS CLARK THAT WHEN YOU WERE AT THE LOS ANGELES POLICE ACADEMY, THAT THEY KIND OF GLOSSED OVER THIS CRIME SCENE MAINTENANCE AND TRAINING; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND MUCH OF WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED, YOU LEARNED ACTUALLY ON THE JOB ONCE YOU ACTUALLY GOT IN THE FIELD; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: HAVE YOU HAD ANY TRAINING IN THE SENSITIVITY OF DNA?

A: NO.

Q: HAD ANY TRAINING WITH REGARD TO POLYMERASE CHAIN REACTION OR SO CALLED PCR?

A: NO.

Q: HAD NONE OF THAT AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW -- BY THE WAY, WITH REGARD TO THIS CRIME SCENE, FROM THE TIME THAT YOU ARRIVED THERE AT 12:13 TO THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT AT WHAT, 7:15?

A: THAT IS CORRECT.

Q: SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, YOU THEN STAYED THERE APPROXIMATELY SEVEN HOURS; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU SEE ANY OFFICERS OUT THERE WITH A VIDEOTAPE MACHINE OR A VIDEOTAPE CAMERA VIDEOTAPING THIS ENTIRE SCENE?

A: NO.

Q: YOU NEVER SAW ANYBODY WITH A VIDEOTAPE AT THAT TIME?

A: NOT THAT I RECALL.

Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

A: NOT THAT I RECALL.

Q: YOU DID IN FACT, HOWEVER, SEE A PHOTOGRAPHER AT SOME POINT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THE PHOTOGRAPHER THAT YOU SAW, WHAT WAS HIS NAME?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: ROKAHR? IF I USED THE NAME ROKAHR, WOULD THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?

A: IT WOULDN'T BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW HIS NAME?

A: I NEVER --

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT TIME DID YOU FIRST SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPHER, SIR?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW. I WENT TO THE FRONT AFTER SEARCHING THE ALLEY AND I THINK HE WAS THERE. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: LET'S BACK UP FOR A MOMENT. YOU RECALL SEEING HIM AT THE REAR --

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: -- OF THE ALLEY TAKING SOME PICTURES; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THIS WAS AFTER THE DETECTIVES HAD ARRIVED AT ABOUT 2:00, 2:30; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: CORRECT.

Q: SO WHATEVER PICTURES AND WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS ON THE DIRECTION OF THE DETECTIVES WHO HAD NOW TAKEN OVER THE SCENE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: YOU DID NOT GIVE HIM ANY DIRECTIONS AS TO WHAT TO TAKE. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY THE DETECTIVES; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: NO. I JUST POINTED OUT BLOOD SO HE DIDN'T STEP IN IT OR DISTURB ANY EVIDENCE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, DID YOU EVER AT ANY TIME SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPHER TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THE INTERIOR OF THE RESIDENCE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM TAKE PICTURES OF THESE CANDLES THAT YOU DESCRIBED?

A: NO.

Q: DID HE TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THIS ICE CREAM, THIS MELTING ICE CREAM THAT YOU DESCRIBED IN YOUR REPORT?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

MR. COCHRAN: I'M ASKING IF HE EVER SAW IT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU EVER SEE HIM TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THIS MELTING ICE CREAM THAT YOU DESCRIBED?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AND BY THE WAY, BEFORE WE BREAK FOR LUNCH --

MR. COCHRAN: IT'S A GOOD TIME TO BREAK FOR LUNCH WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ICE CREAM, YOUR HONOR, BUT LET ME JUST ASK HIM.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THIS ICE CREAM, WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THIS ICE CREAM, YOU DESCRIBED THE ICE CREAM AS A BOWL OF MELTING ICE CREAM; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IT WASN'T MELTED AT THAT POINT, WAS IT?

A: IN MY OPINION, NO. IT WAS MELTING.

Q: IT WAS MELTING?

A: IT WAS ABOUT HALF AND HALF.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO IT WAS STILL MELTING, RIGHT?

A: THAT IS CORRECT.

Q: OKAY. WHAT KIND OF ICE CREAM WAS THAT? DO YOU RECALL?

A: WHAT KIND OF ICE CREAM?

Q: YEAH. WAS IT VANILLA, STRAWBERRY CHOCOLATE? WHAT WAS IT?

A: I DON'T KNOW.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PICTURES TO THIS DATE TO TELL US, DO YOU?

A: NO.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME, THE BEST EVIDENCE OF THE CONDITION OF THAT ICE CREAM WHEN YOU FIRST SAW IT ON THAT NIGHT WOULD BE A PICTURE OF HOW IT LOOKED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: PICTURE OF WHEN I ACTUALLY SAW IT, YES.

Q: YEAH. WHEN YOU SAW IT, YES. WE DON'T HAVE THAT, DO WE?

A: NOT THAT I KNOW OF.

Q: WHAT KIND OF CONTAINER OF ICE CREAM WAS THIS?

A: IT WAS LIKE A CARDBOARD BEN AND JERRY'S CONTAINER.

Q: BEN AND JERRY'S?

A: BEN AND JERRY'S.

Q: CONTAINER.

A: RIGHT.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT? AND THIS ICE CREAM THAT YOU SAW WAS INSIDE THE RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND WHERE WAS IT IN RELATION TO THAT RESIDENCE? WAS IT NEAR THE REAR?

A: IT WAS ON A BANISTER RIGHT BEFORE THE ENTRANCE TO THE GARAGE FROM THE HOUSE.

Q: AND IT WAS NEAR THE BACK. AND WHEN YOU CAME AND YOU TOOK THE CHILDREN OUT THAT WAY, YOU PASSED RIGHT BY THAT BANISTER; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THIS ICE CREAM, WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU FIRST SAW THAT ICE CREAM, THE MELTING ICE CREAM?

A: I WOULD ESTIMATE 12:35, 12:40.

Q: SO AT THAT TIME, AT 12:40, THIS MELTING ICE CREAM IN THE BEN AND JERRY'S CONTAINER HAD NOT FULLY MELTED, RIGHT?

A: NOT IN MY OPINION, NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS A GOOD POINT NOW, YOUR HONOR, THE ICE CREAM, AND WE'LL PICK UP THERE AFTER LUNCH.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE LUNCH HOUR. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, ALLOW ANYBODY TO CONTACT YOU REGARDING THE CASE. LET'S HAVE IT QUIET IN THE COURTROOM, PLEASE. DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU. AND WE WILL SEE YOU BACK HERE AT 1:30. OFFICER RISKY, YOU ARE ORDERED NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE LAWYERS IN THE CASE. YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN HERE AT 1:30 SHARP.

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE'LL STAND IN RECESS UNTIL 1:30. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

(AT 12:00 P.M., THE NOON RECESS WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF THE SAME DAY.)

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1995 1:31 P.M.

DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

APPEARANCES: (APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)

(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT WITH HIS COUNSEL. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED. MISS CLARK, YOU HAVE AN EXPECTANT LOOK ON YOUR FACE.

MS. CLARK: I HAVE A HOPEFUL LOOK ON MY FACE, YOUR HONOR. I WANTED TO, NO. 1, ASK THE COURT -- WE SENT DOWN THE PEOPLE'S ITINERARY TUESDAY --

THE COURT: YES.

MS. CLARK: -- I THINK IT WAS, AND I HAVE SINCE RECEIVED A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER WE WERE GOING TO SEND ONE DOWN AND WE ALREADY DID.

THE COURT: NO, I HAVE THE ITINERARY. WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN IS YOUR LIST OF PARTICIPANTS. WHO ALL IS GOING TO GO?

MS. CLARK: OH, OKAY. CAN I GIVE THAT TO THE COURT AT THE BREAK.

THE COURT: OKAY.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. ALSO, A POLICE REPORT CONCERNING THE WITNESS BENJAMIN JONES, A POLICE OFFICER AT THE PACIFIC AREA STATION, WAS COMPLETED AND TURNED OVER TO COUNSEL ON THE SAME DAY, WHICH WAS YESTERDAY, AND IT WAS FAXED TO COUNSEL YESTERDAY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MS. CLARK: THERE WAS A REPORT OF AN INTERVIEW CONDUCTED ON FEBRUARY 8TH, TURNED OVER TO COUNSEL ON FEBRUARY 8TH. I'M SHOWING A COPY OF THAT TO COUNSEL NOW CONCERNING THE TESTIMONY -- PROPOSED TESTIMONY OF OFFICER BENJAMIN JONES. HE WAS THE OFFICER WHO WAS ON PATROL THE NIGHT THAT STEVE SCHWAB GOT THE DOG, FOUND NICOLE'S DOG AND CALLED ANIMAL SHELTER FOR HIM. WE HAD NOT PREVIOUSLY BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY HIM. HE CAME FORWARD WHEN HE HEARD ABOUT THE INCIDENT TESTIFIED TO BY STEVEN SCHWAB, REALIZING THAT IT WAS HIM. WE HAVE THE POLICE REPORT AND IT HAS BEEN FORWARDED TO COUNSEL AND WE WOULD LIKE TO CALL HIM AS A WITNESS AT THE CONCLUSION OF OFFICER RISKE'S TESTIMONY.

THE COURT: WE WILL ALLOW DEFENSE COUNSEL THE OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW THE REPORT AND THEN WE WILL TAKE IT UP AT THAT TIME.

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

MS. CLARK: WELL, IT WAS FAXED TO COUNSEL YESTERDAY, SO THEY SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN COPY.

MR. COCHRAN: WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT, BUT YOUR HONOR, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY -- I AM CONFUSED. THIS WAS AN OFFICER WHO DID THIS ON JUNE 12, 1994, AND WE ARE GETTING A REPORT YESTERDAY. WE WILL TAKE IT UP AFTERWARDS. LET'S RESUME WITH CROSS-EXAMINATION.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: OKAY. CAN I HAVE MY COPY BACK?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO REJOIN US?

MS. CLARK: THAT IS IT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: I HAVE LOST ALL MY STAFF. LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD AFTERNOON.

ROBERT RISKE, THE WITNESS ON THE STAND AT THE TIME OF THE NOON RECESS, RESUMED THE STAND AND TESTIFIED FURTHER AS FOLLOWS:

THE COURT: OFFICER ROBERT RISKE IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND UNDER CROSS-EXAMINATION. OFFICER RISKE, YOU ARE REMINDED THAT YOU ARE STILL UNDER OATH. AND MR. COCHRAN, YOU MAY CONTINUE YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. DOUGLAS: YOUR HONOR, COULD WE HAVE THE BOARDS MOVED SO THAT WE CAN SEE THE JURY?

MS. CLARK: SURE. YES.

THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO JUST PILE THEM UP HERE, HOWEVER.

MS. CLARK: OVER HERE?

THE COURT: IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH, MR. DOUGLAS?

MR. DOUGLAS: YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.

THE JURY: GOOD AFTERNOON.

CROSS-EXAMINATION (RESUMED)

BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: GOOD AFTERNOON, OFFICER RISKE.

A: SIR.

Q: WHEN WE BROKE AT LUNCH WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ICE CREAM AND THAT INCIDENT THAT YOU WERE OUT THERE ON JUNE 13, 1994. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE ICE CREAM OR THE SPOON ON THE FLOOR RIGHT BELOW THE ICE CREAM?

A: NO, I HAVEN'T.

Q: HAVE YOU EVER HAD OCCASION TO SEE THE CUP, THE BEN AND JERRY'S CUP THAT THE ICE CREAM WAS IN?

A: NO, SIR, I DIDN'T.

Q: AND WHEN YOU SAW THE MELTING ICE CREAM AND THE SPOON ON THE FLOOR, WHERE WAS IT?

A: WHERE WAS -- WHERE WAS THE CUP?

Q: WHERE WAS THE CUP?

A: STILL ON THE BANISTER.

Q: SO WHEN YOU LEFT THAT MORNING AT ABOUT 7:15 IN THE MORNING, IT WAS STILL IN THAT SAME POSITION, AS FAR AS YOU KNOW; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES.

Q: NO OFFICER HAD RETRIEVED IT AT THAT TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NO. THE LAST TIME I SAW IT IT WAS STILL ON THE BANISTER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHILE YOU WERE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE, YOU NEVER AT ANY TIME SAW THE PHOTOGRAPHER TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THESE CANDLES THAT WERE LIT INSIDE EITHER; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WILL YOU DESCRIBE AND GIVE US A WORD PICTURE FOR THE COURT AND JURY OF THESE CANDLES. WHERE WERE THESE CANDLES AND HOW WERE THEY LIT?

A: THE BATHTUB IN THE MASTER BEDROOM OR IN THE MASTER BATH IS A SUNKEN TUB AND THERE IS A SPACE TO THE -- THAT WOULD BE TOWARD THE WEST TOWARDS THE ALLEY, THAT IS JUST FLAT AND THERE WAS THREE CANDLES IN CANDLE HOLDERS ON THAT SPACE AND THEY WERE LIT.

Q: AND THEY WERE LIT AND THEY WERE STILL BURNING WHEN YOU GOT THERE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU -- DID YOU OR ANYONE ELSE PRESERVE THOSE CANDLES SO THAT WE HAVE THOSE NOW?

A: I DIDN'T, NO.

Q: AGAIN, WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT YOU NEVER SAW THE PHOTOGRAPHER WHO WAS THERE TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THE CANDLES?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THAT -- THAT IS MISLEADING AND CONFUSING. WHETHER HE SAW IT OR NOT DOESN'T MEAN IT HAPPENED OR NOT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU NEVER SAW THE PHOTOGRAPHER TAKE ANY PICTURES OF THOSE CANDLES, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SINCE THIS TIME YOU HAVE NOT SEEN ANY PICTURES OF THOSE CANDLES, HAVE YOU?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, ASSUMES A FACT NOT IN EVIDENCE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DID YOU SEE ANY CANDLES ANY PLACE ELSE IN THE RESIDENCE THAT WERE BURNING?

A: I REALLY DON'T RECALL SEEING ANY.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU HAVE DESCRIBED ON A COUPLE OF OCCASIONS THAT THE PLACE DID NOT APPEAR TO YOU TO BE RANSACKED, AND WOULD I BE CORRECT IN ASSUMING THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU HAVE BEEN INSIDE THAT LOCATION?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS ANY VERY EXPENSIVE VASES OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE THAT WERE IN THERE BEFORE?

A: I HAVE NO IDEA.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW THAT, DO YOU?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: SO SINCE THAT IS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU HAD BEEN THERE YOU JUST DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT APPEARED TO BE OUT OF ORDER?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, WHEN YOU FINALLY GAINED ENTRANCE, YOU WALKED UP THE SIDE, THE SIDE OF THE BODY, SO IT WOULD BE TO THE SOUTH OF WHERE THE BODIES WOULD BE, THE FRONT DOOR OF THIS RESIDENCE WAS OPENED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND AT SOME POINT YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT YOU WENT INSIDE THE HOUSE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: NOW, DID YOU HAVE ONE OF THESE KIND OF ROVING COMMUNICATORS SO THAT YOU COULD CALL FROM -- I FORGET WHAT THEY CALL THEM -- THE ROVERS?

A: A ROVER.

Q: -- TO MAKE A CALL BACK TO WEST LOS ANGELES STATION?

A: YES.

Q: SO YOU COULD HAVE CALLED YOUR SERGEANT ON YOUR ROVER IF YOU WANTED TO, RIGHT?

A: WELL, I COULD HAVE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AS I RECALL YOUR TESTIMONY, AT SOME POINT YOU WENT INSIDE THE RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WERE YOU BY YOURSELF AT THAT POINT?

A: MY PARTNER WAS ON THE LANDING WITH ME.

Q: ALL RIGHT. OFFICER TERRAZAS?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME WHETHER OR NOT THE -- THIS PARTICULAR PHONE WAS EQUIPPED WITH THIS STAR 69 FEATURE SO YOU COULD PUNCH DOWN AND GET THE LAST NUMBER CALLED OR THE LAST NUMBER?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: YOU DIDN'T KNOW?

A: NO.

Q: AND PRIOR TO YOU -- YOU PICKED UP THAT PHONE AT SOME POINT, DID YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: PRIOR TO PICKING UP THAT PHONE DID ANYBODY DUST IT FOR PRINTS AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU HAVE ANY GLOVES ON WHEN YOU PICKED UP THE PHONE?

A: NO.

Q: SO YOU JUST PICKED IT UP AND USED IT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU HAVE YOUR ROVER WITH YOU WHEN YOU PICKED UP THE PHONE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHEN YOU USED THIS PHONE, THAT IS WHEN YOU CALLED WEST LOS ANGELES STATION?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: YOU SPOKE TO SERGEANT ROSSI?

A: SERGEANT ROSSI.

Q: WHAT TIME OF EVENING OR EARLY MORNING WAS THAT, SIR, THAT YOU MADE THAT CALL?

A: I WOULD SAY 12:20, 12:25.

Q: SO IT WAS WITHIN A RELATIVELY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME OF YOUR ARRIVAL THERE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND IF THIS PHONE HAD A PARTICULAR DIAL COMPONENT, YOUR PHONE -- YOUR CALLING OUT WOULD HAVE DISTURBED THAT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: DID ANY OTHER POLICE OFFICERS AT THAT TIME MAKE ANY CALLS ON THAT PHONE, THAT YOU KNOW OF?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, AT THAT TIME YOU ONLY WENT -- THE PHONE WAS WHERE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE?

A: IT WAS BETWEEN THE KITCHEN AND THE DINING ROOM. IT WAS RIGHT ON THE COUNTER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. OKAY. THE LIGHT -- AS YOU WENT INSIDE THIS RESIDENCE THERE WAS LIGHT COMING OUT OF THE RESIDENCE DOWN TOWARD WHERE THESE STAIRS WERE? IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DO YOU HAVE A -- HAVE YOU SEEN A PHOTOGRAPH TODAY OF THAT, OF THE FRONT DOOR BEING OPENED WITH THE LIGHT CASCADING DOWN?

A: NO.

Q: YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THAT TODAY?

A: NOT WITH THE FRONT DOOR OPENED. I HAVEN'T SEEN A PICTURE OF THE FRONT DOOR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DESCRIBE THEN FOR THE JURY HOW WIDE THIS FRONT DOOR WAS OPENED.

A: HALF, MAYBE A LITTLE MORE THAN HALF.

Q: ABOUT HALFWAY OPENED?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE -- THE FRONT GATE, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US HOW THE -- MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S LEGS WERE UNDER THAT GATE AND WE SAW A PICTURE OF THAT?

A: NOT UNDER THE GATE.

Q: CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE GATE?

A: THE GATE IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALKWAY.

Q: UNDER THE FENCE PROPERLY PUT. AND THIS GATE WAS OPENED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S RIGHT.

Q: AND DESCRIBE AGAIN HOW FAR OPENED WAS IT?

A: IT WAS COMPLETELY OPENED WHEN WE GOT THERE.

Q: LIKE WIDE OPEN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: ON ONE SIDE OF THE GATE DESCRIBE FOR US HOW THE GATE MECHANISM WORKED, IF YOU RECALL. WAS THERE A BUZZER ON ONE SIDE AND A HANDLE ON THE OTHER SIDE?

A: THERE WAS A CALL BOX, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS ELECTRONIC OR MANUAL. I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE THAT NIGHT YOU DESCRIBED FOR US HOW IN GOING THROUGH THE SHRUBBERY YOU CAME UP TO A CALL BOX?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU TEST THAT CALL BOX WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE, UP UNTIL ABOUT 7:15 IN THE MORNING, DID YOU SEE ANY POLICE OFFICERS DUST THAT CALL BOX FOR ANY PRINTS?

A: I REALLY DON'T RECALL, NO.

Q: DID YOU FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT THE CALL BOX WAS OPERABLE, THAT IS, BY THAT DID YOU -- DID ANYBODY GO INSIDE AND HAVE THE CALL BOX PRESSED AND CHECK IT INSIDE TO SEE IF IT WORKED?

A: NOT IN MY PRESENCE, NO.

Q: NOT IN YOUR PRESENCE?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DIDN'T DO IT PERSONALLY?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE DID YOU SEE, AND I THINK WE SAW SOME PICTURES THIS MORNING, THAT THERE WAS SOME KIND OF A HANDLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT PARTICULAR GATE THAT WAS OPENED, RIGHT?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: DO YOU REMEMBER A DOOR HANDLE?

A: OF THE REAR GATE. I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING ANY PICTURES OF THE FRONT GATE.

Q: THINK BACK IN YOUR MIND'S EYE OF THE FRONT GATE. DO YOU REMEMBER HAVING HANDLE ON THE FRONT GATE?

A: I DON'T RECALL IF IT DID OR NOT.

Q: YOU DON'T RECALL?

A: NO.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. COCHRAN AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE HAVE JUST A MOMENT? THERE IS A PICTURE OF THE FRONT GATE AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE.

THE COURT: CERTAINLY. CERTAINLY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, CAN WE CUT THE FEED?

THE COURT: YES.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: SAVE SOME TIME, WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE NUMBER, YOUR HONOR, BEFORE WE START. WE WOULD LIKE TO CUT THE FEED AND PUT THIS UP ON THE ELMO IF WE CAN. I UNDERSTAND THIS IS PLAINTIFF'S 42 FOR IDENTIFICATION.

Q: NOW, CAN YOU LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR THERE AND DO YOU SEE THERE, THERE APPEARS TO BE A HANDLE WHERE I'M POINTING WITH THE LASER. IS THAT THE INSIDE?

A: THAT IS THE CALL BOX, SIR.

Q: NO, NO.

THE COURT: I THINK HE IS LOOKING AT THE ARROW, NOT THE --

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THE CALL BOX IS TO THE LEFT WHERE THERE IS AN ARROW; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: I WANT YOU TO LOOK TO THE RIGHT OF THAT PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH. DO YOU SEE A DOORKNOB?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: OKAY. WHERE THE ARROW IS NOW LOCATED?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU NOTICE THAT THAT NIGHT?

A: I DID, BUT I JUST DIDN'T MAKE ANY MENTION OF IT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THERE WAS A DOOR -- THERE WERE DOOR KNOBS ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE DID YOU EVER SEE ANY POLICE OR ANY POLICE TECHNICIANS DUST THOSE TWO DOORKNOBS FOR FINGERPRINTS?

A: NO, SIR.

Q: AND YOU NEVER DID ANYTHING WITH REGARD TO DETERMINING HOW YOU GOT THAT GATE OPENED, DID YOU?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: NOW, AFTER YOU MADE THE INITIAL PHONE CALL TO SERGEANT ROSSI, YOU CAME BACK OUTSIDE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AT THAT POINT YOU HAD NOT DISCOVERED THE CHILDREN; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU HAD NOT DISCOVERED THE ICE CREAM?

A: RIGHT.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, DO YOU NEED THIS PHOTOGRAPH ANY LONGER?

MR. COCHRAN: NO, NO. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. YOU MAY TAKE IT DOWN, THANK YOU.

THE COURT: THANK YOU, MR. HARRIS.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND YOU CAME BACK OUTSIDE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND HOW LONG BEFORE YOU WENT BACK IN THE HOUSE AGAIN?

A: I WOULD SAY LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES.

Q: SO IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME YOU WENT BACK IN THE HOUSE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WITH ANYONE ELSE OR BY YOURSELF?

A: WITH OFFICER WALLEY.

Q: YOU AND OFFICER WALLEY WENT INSIDE THE HOUSE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WHEN YOU WENT IN THIS SECOND TIME, WHAT TIME WAS IT, SIR?

A: I COULD ONLY GUESS.

Q: BEST ESTIMATE?

A: 12:35, 12:40.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO WITHIN A HALF HOUR OF THE TIME YOU ARRIVED THERE, AT ANY RATE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: OKAY. YOUR PURPOSE WAS TO LOOK TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY OTHER VICTIMS, ANY OTHER PEOPLE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WAS THAT WHEN YOU BECAME AWARE AND FORMED THE OPINION, AS YOU STATED, THAT MR. O.J. SIMPSON WAS SOMEHOW INVOLVED IN THIS?

A: YES.

Q: AND --

A: ACTUALLY WHEN I MADE THE INITIAL PHONE CALL.

Q: NOTICED IT WHEN YOU MADE THE FIRST PHONE CALL AND YOU SAW SOME CORRESPONDENCE WITH MR. SIMPSON'S NAME ON IT?

A: IT WAS A RETURN ADDRESS, YES.

Q: AND THERE WAS A LETTER OF SOME KIND?

A: JUST AN ENVELOPE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, BEFORE -- YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO THAT LOCATION BEFORE, HAVE YOU?

A: NEVER.

Q: WAS THERE A NAME ON THE MAILBOX AT ALL THAT NIGHT?

A: I DIDN'T LOOK AT THE MAILBOX, NO.

Q: THIS WAS THE FIRST THING YOU SAW WITH A NAME ON IT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: A LETTER WITH A RETURN ADDRESS AND MR. O.J. SIMPSON?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IN YOUR MIND YOU THOUGHT THAT THAT MEANT HE WAS SOMEHOW INVOLVED WITH THIS?

A: WITH THE PICTURES ON THE WALL AND THE FAMILY PICTURES AND THE LETTER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. WHAT PICTURES ON THE WALL DID YOU SEE?

A: THERE WAS A LITHOGRAPH ON THE NORTH WALL OF THE RESIDENCE.

Q: AND WHAT -- THIS LITHOGRAPH WAS OF WHOM?

A: OF O.J. SIMPSON, I BELIEVE.

Q: AND IN WHAT POSITION? WHAT WAS HE DOING?

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS HIM PLAYING FOOTBALL.

Q: HE WAS WEARING A FOOTBALL UNIFORM?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WEARING NO. 32?

A: I REALLY DON'T RECALL.

Q: BUT YOU RECOGNIZED HIM?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT ELSE DID YOU SEE WITH REGARD TO MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THERE WERE SOME FAMILY PHOTOS AS YOU ENTER THE FRONT DOOR. THERE IS LIKE A WALL BEFORE YOU GET TO THE DINING ROOM THAT HAD PHOTOS IN IT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT PHOTOGRAPHS DID YOU SEE THERE, SIR?

A: THERE IS JUST A BUNCH OF PHOTOS. I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: AND DID YOU SEE CHILDREN IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: DID YOU SEE MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU SEE MR. O.J. SIMPSON IN THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: I SEEM TO RECALL. I CAN'T BE POSITIVE IF HE WAS IN THOSE PHOTOS.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THAT IS YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION NOW, YOU THINK YOU SAW HIM; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES, SIR. YES, SIR.

Q: THIS IS NOW -- DID YOU OBSERVE THIS DURING THE FIRST TIME YOU WENT IN THERE AND YOU CALLED SERGEANT ROSSI?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU OBSERVE ANYTHING ELSE AT THAT POINT DURING THIS FIRST TIME THAT YOU WENT INSIDE?

A: NO, JUST THE ENVELOPE WITH HIS NAME ON IT BY THE PHONE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, THEN WHEN YOU CAME BACK IN FIVE MINUTES OR SO LATER WITH OFFICER WALLEY, DID YOU THEN GO INSIDE AND UPSTAIRS IN THE UNIT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: DESCRIBE THIS UNIT FOR US. CAN YOU TELL US HOW MANY BEDROOMS THIS UNIT HAD?

A: I BELIEVE IT HAS THREE.

Q: AND ABOUT -- ARE YOU PRETTY GOOD AT ESTIMATING SQUARE FOOTAGE?

A: NO.

Q: I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU HOW LARGE WAS THIS UNIT?

A: IT WAS PROBABLY MAYBE TWENTY BY A HUNDRED, I'M NOT -- I DON'T KNOW.

Q: JUST YOUR BEST ESTIMATE?

A: YEAH.

Q: YOU WERE ONLY IN THERE A COUPLE OF TIMES?

A: TWICE. ACTUALLY, THREE TIMES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU THEN ON THE SECOND OCCASION, THAT IS WHEN YOU WENT UPSTAIRS?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHEN YOU WENT UPSTAIRS YOU FOUND THE TWO JUVENILES ASLEEP; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AT SOME POINT THEY WERE AWAKENED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: THERE WAS A YOUNG LADY AND A YOUNG MAN, RIGHT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: A MALE AND A FEMALE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU AND OFFICER WALLEY BRING THEM DOWN AT THAT POINT DURING THE TIME OF YOUR SECOND ENCOUNTER INTO THE RESIDENCE?

A: YES.

Q: AND OF COURSE YOU TOOK THEM OUT THE BACK WAY; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: OUT THE BACK.

Q: AND IN GOING OUT THE BACK WAY, THE FEMALE YOUNG LADY SHOWED YOU HOW TO OPEN THE GARAGE DOOR?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU WERE ABLE TO GET THEM OUT THAT WAY AND LEAVE IN THE ALLEYWAY; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, THAT JEEP THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, THAT IS A BLACK JEEP, ISN'T IT? ISN'T THAT BLACK?

A: I BELIEVE IT IS DARK GREEN.

Q: ARE YOU COLORED BLIND? LET ME REPHRASE IT THIS WAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH COLORS?

A: NO.

Q: YOUR RECOLLECTION IS IT IS A DARK GREEN JEEP?

A: DARK GREEN. JUST A DARK COLOR. I THINK IT IS DARK GREEN.

Q: YOU THINK IT IS DARK GREEN?

A: AS FAR AS I RECALL.

Q: OKAY. IF YOU WERE TO SEE A PICTURE OF IT, WOULD THAT HELP YOU?

A: YES, SIR.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL PLACE A PHOTO OF THE JEEP ON THE ELMO, YOUR HONOR, AND WE WILL GET THE NUMBER.

Q: IN LOOKING AT THAT ARE YOU ABLE TO DISCERN FROM YOUR MONITOR THE COLOR OF THAT?

A: NO, I'M NOT.

Q: JUST DARK?

A: JUST DARK.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY KINDLY.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS PEOPLE'S 52.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. SO WHEN YOU CAME OUTSIDE WERE YOU WITH OFFICER -- HE IS BRINGING IT UP CLOSER. DOES THAT HELP YOU AT ALL WITH REGARD TO COLOR?

A: NOT REALLY, NO. IT IS NOT REALLY WELL-LIT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU CAN'T TELL; JUST DARK?

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU CAME OUTSIDE WITH OFFICER WALLEY AND THE TWO MINOR CHILDREN, THEY WERE TAKEN TO THE STATION BY SOME OTHER POLICE OFFICERS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND DID YOU HAVE ANY FURTHER CONVERSATION WITH EITHER OF THE MINORS WHEN YOU TOOK THEM DOWNSTAIRS?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: THEY THEN LEFT THE SCENE AT SOME POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, BEFORE I FORGET, WITH REGARD TO THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT WE SHOWED SHOWING THE TWO DOORKNOBS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FRONT GATE, I THINK WE PRINTED THAT OUT. I THINK THE NEXT EXHIBIT IS DEFENDANT'S 1005. MAY I MARK THAT D-1005, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS AN ARROW ON THAT AND ALSO AN ARROW AT THE CALL BOX AND I WILL HAVE THAT MARKED BY YOUR HONOR'S CLERK.

THE COURT: THANK YOU.

(DEFT'S 1005 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, INSIDE THAT LOCATION YOU ALSO DESCRIBED FOR US THAT YOU SAW A TUB OF WATER IN THE BATHTUB; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU EVER TOUCH THAT WATER TO SEE WHETHER IT WAS HOT OR COLD?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WERE THERE ANY PICTURES TAKEN OF THAT WATER?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW? YOU NEVER SAW ANY, DID YOU?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU EVER --

MS. CLARK: AGAIN, OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE, THAT THIS WITNESS HAS SEEN THE PHOTOGRAPHS, ALL THE PHOTOGRAPHS IN THIS CASE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: COULD YOU TELL WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE HAD TAKEN A BATH ALREADY FROM THAT WATER?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE MY CHILDREN'S TOYS IN AND AROUND THE BATHTUB?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU RECALL LOOKING FOR THAT?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU JUST LOOKED AND SAW SOME WATER IN THERE AND THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT?

A: I WAS MORE WORRIED ABOUT HAVING A PERSON IN THERE THAN TOYS. I DIDN'T SEE ANY, NO.

Q: YOUR ANSWER IS YOU DIDN'T REALLY LOOK AND SEE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: I UNDERSTAND. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE MASTER BEDROOM THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED FOR US, THERE IS A MASTER BEDROOM AND A MASTER BATHROOM; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: THE BATHTUB THAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IS IN THE MASTER BEDROOM OR OFF FROM IT?

A: THE MASTER BATH.

Q: OKAY. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS BED, DID THE BED LOOK AS THOUGH SOMEBODY HAD BEEN IN THAT BED THAT NIGHT?

A: IT JUST -- THE COVERS WERE PILED IN THE MIDDLE. I COULDN'T TELL.

Q: IT WAS AN UNMADE BED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHEN YOU SAY THE COVERS WERE PILED IN THE MIDDLE, IT WASN'T AS THOUGH THE BED WAS MADE UP, IN OTHER WORDS, RIGHT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DID YOU MAKE ANY OTHER PHONE CALLS FROM INSIDE THE RESIDENCE AT THAT TIME?

A: NO, SIR.

Q: THEN DID YOU HAVE A THIRD TIME IN WHICH YOU WENT BACK INSIDE THE RESIDENCE?

A: YES.

Q: IS THAT WHEN YOU WENT UP ON THE LANDING? THE THIRD TIME WHEN YOU WENT BACK, WHEN WAS THAT?

A: THE THIRD TIME I WENT IN WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS.

Q: IS THAT WHEN YOU WENT UP ON THE LANDING?

A: I WENT UP ON THE LANDING THE SECOND TIME I WAS IN THERE, TOO.

Q: OKAY. SO TWO TIMES YOU WENT ON THE LANDING?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS WHEN YOU MADE THE OBSERVATIONS. NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE TIME THAT EVERYONE ARRIVED THERE, I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU WHAT PURPORTS TO BE AN LAPD CRIME SCENE LOG WHICH PURPORTS TO HAVE THE TIME THAT VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS LOGGED INTO THE SCENE, AND I WANT TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THIS WILL REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION REGARDING CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS. I WILL MARK THIS, IF THE COURT PLEASES, D-1006, YOUR HONOR, AND I WILL SHOW IT TO COUNSEL.

THE COURT: NOTED. 1006.

(DEFT'S 1006 FOR ID = 2-PAGE CRIME SCENE LOG)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YOU MAY.

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL PLACE THIS BEFORE YOU. IT IS A TWO-PAGE DOCUMENT, YOUR HONOR, D-1006.

Q: NOW, OFFICER RISKE, LET'S FIRST OF ALL TAKE -- YOU AND YOUR PARTNER WERE THE FIRST TWO TO ARRIVE, RISKE AND TERRAZAS?

A: TERRAZAS.

Q: HAS YOU ARRIVING AT ABOUT 12:20 AND LEAVING ABOUT 7:15. IS THAT GENERALLY ACCURATE?

A: THAT IS ACCURATE WHAT IT SAYS. THAT IS NOT ACCURATE WHAT HAPPENED.

Q: OKAY. DID YOU -- THAT IS WHAT IT SAYS IN THIS LOG, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: OKAY. BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY ARRIVED AT 12:13, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHO WAS KEEPING THIS LOG THAT NIGHT?

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS OFFICER CUMMINGS.

Q: OKAY. AND DID YOU -- DID YOU YOURSELF SIGN INTO THIS LOG THAT NIGHT?

A: NO. I DIDN'T SIGN. I DIDN'T SIGN IN.

Q: YOU NEVER SIGNED IN? ALL RIGHT. I WANT YOU TO LOOK DOWN. LET'S SEE IF WE CAN FIND -- PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN WERE PARTNERS THAT NIGHT; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WHAT TIME DOES IT INDICATE THAT PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION?

A: 2:10.

Q: THAT WILL BE 2:10 IN THE MORNING?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: DOES THAT COMPORT WITH YOUR MEMORY THAT THEY WERE THERE SOMEWHERE AFTER TWO O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING HOURS?

A: YES, SIR. I DON'T KNOW HOW ACCURATE IT IS AGAIN. I DIDN'T FILL IT OUT.

Q: BUT THE LOG DOES SAY 2:10, RIGHT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: THAT WAS OFFICER CUMMINGS' JOB; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: I BELIEVE SO, YES.

Q: HE ARRIVED AT THE SCENE WITHIN ABOUT TEN MINUTES OF THE TIME YOU ARRIVED; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO ONCE THEY ARRIVED AT 2:10, FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS WERE THEN THE OFFICERS IN CHARGE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: AFTER WE SHOWED THEM WHAT WE HAD, SHOWED THEM THE CRIME SCENE, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BECAUSE THEY WERE THE HOMICIDE DETECTIVES; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN IT IS TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT DETECTIVES VANNATTER AND LANGE COME BEFORE YOU LEFT AT 7:15 OR 7:20 IN THE MORNING?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHEN VANNATTER AND LANGE CAME, THEY WERE THE ONES IN CHARGE BECAUSE THEY CAME FROM ROBBERY HOMICIDE DOWNTOWN; ISN'T THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT TIME THEY ARRIVED?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: DON'T KNOW?

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: AGAIN, I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH AGAIN, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: YES.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WILL ASK YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE LOG AND SEE IF THIS MAY TEND TO REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION FOR VANNATTER.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT. THERE IS NO FOUNDATION HERE. THERE IS NO DEMONSTRATION THAT THIS WITNESS --

THE COURT: OVERRULED. NO FOUNDATION? THAT IS THE OBJECTION, CORRECT? YOU CAN USE ANYTHING TO REFRESH RECOLLECTION.

MS. CLARK: I'M -- THAT IS NOT THE BASIS OF MY OBJECTION.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET ME SEE YOU AT THE SIDE BAR.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE OVER AT SIDE BAR. WHAT IS YOUR OBJECTION?

MS. CLARK: THE OBJECTION IS THAT THIS WITNESS -- THERE ARE SO MANY FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. THAT WITNESS NEVER HAD KNOWLEDGE OF WHEN THEY GOT THERE, SAW THEM WHEN THEY GOT THERE. THAT IS FINE TO REFRESH RECOLLECTION IF YOU CAN SHOW THAT THERE WAS A MEMORY TO BE REFRESHED, BECAUSE THIS WITNESS DOESN'T HAVE A MEMORY BECAUSE HE DOESN'T KNOW, SO WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS READING HEARSAY.

MR. COCHRAN: SHE IS JUST SPECULATING. HE KNOWS WHEN THEY CAME.

MS. CLARK: HOW ABOUT ASKING A FEW FOUNDATIONAL QUESTIONS AND LET'S SEE.

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL DO THAT. I'M GOING TO DO THAT.

MS. CLARK: MR. COCHRAN IS ATTEMPTING TO PUT THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE. YOU DON'T REFRESH THE RECOLLECTION BEFORE YOU SHOW THEM THAT THERE IS --

THE COURT: YOU CAN SHOW THEM ANYTHING IN THE WORLD TO REFRESH RECOLLECTION, MISS CLARK. HE CAN LOOK AT IT AND SAY -- HE HAS ALREADY SAID I DIDN'T FILL THIS OUT, SO I DON'T KNOW AT THIS TIME IF IT IS ACCURATE, SO WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HE IS GOING TO SAY.

MS. CLARK: HE DIDN'T -- HE SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW, THOUGH, YOUR HONOR. IT IS DIFFERENT. IF A WITNESS SAYS I DON'T REMEMBER, I CAN'T RECALL, THAT IS ONE THING. THEN YOU CAN ASK TO REFRESH THEIR RECOLLECTION. IF THEY SAY I DON'T KNOW, I WASN'T THERE WHEN THEY GOT THERE, I WAS NOT IN A POSITION TO SEE, THEN WHAT ARE YOU REFRESHING? THERE IS NOTHING TO REFRESH.

THE COURT: THE OBJECTION IS OVERRULED.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. COCHRAN, PROCEED.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR.

Q: I WANT YOU TO -- BY THE WAY, LET ME ASK YOU ONE OTHER QUESTION. YOU WERE PRESENT WHEN OFFICERS VANNATTER AND LANGE CAME; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU KNEW THEY WERE FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE, DID YOU NOT?

A: I WAS TOLD THEY WERE FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE.

Q: OKAY. WHO TOLD YOU THAT?

A: I BELIEVE BEFORE THEY GOT THERE FUHRMAN TOLD ME THEY WERE COMING TO TAKE OVER THE CASE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU KNEW FUHRMAN BEFORE THAT PARTICULAR EVENING? YOU WORKED IN THE SAME DIVISION WITH HIM, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: OKAY. SO WHAT I WANT YOU TO DO NOW IS TO TAKE A LOOK AT DEFENDANT'S 1006 FOR IDENTIFICATION AND I WANT TO ASK YOU WHETHER OR NOT A REVIEW OF THE TIMES LOGGED BY OFFICER CUMMINGS REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION OF THE APPROXIMATE TIMES THAT VANNATTER AND LANGE ARRIVED IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS ON JUNE 13, 1994.

A: I COULD TELL WHAT YOU TIME IT SAYS, BUT I WAS IN THE BACK WHEN THEY GOT THERE. I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY WERE UP FRONT.

Q: OKAY. WOULD I BE CORRECT IN -- WITHOUT TELLING US WHAT IT SAYS, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THEY ARRIVED SOMETIME AFTER FOUR O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND AT THAT TIME, FROM THE TIME THEY ARRIVED AFTER FOUR O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, THEY WERE THEN THE ONES IN CHARGE OF THIS INVESTIGATION; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES, SIR.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HAD HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH DETECTIVE FUHRMAN AND YOU KNEW HIM BEFORE THAT NIGHT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: I HAD SEEN HIM. I DIDN'T KNOW HIM PERSONALLY.

Q: YOU HAD NEVER BEEN ON A PARTICULAR HOMICIDE SCENE WHERE HE HAD BEEN THE INVESTIGATOR?

A: NO.

Q: HAD YOU EVER SPOKEN TO HIM BEFORE?

A: JUST IN PASSING.

Q: WHEN YOU WERE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE AT SOME POINT, YOU AND FUHRMAN WERE INSIDE THE RESIDENCE, WEREN'T YOU, TALKING?

A: YES.

Q: IN FACT, YOU WERE IN THE BACK TALKING, WHERE THE ICE CREAM WAS?

A: NO, WE WERE IN THE KITCHEN.

Q: THE KITCHEN IS NOT TOO FAR FROM WHERE THE ICE CREAM WAS ON THE LANDING?

A: FIFTY FEET MAYBE.

Q: ABOUT FIFTY FEET, BUT AT SOME POINT THE TWO OF YOU WERE BACK BY THE ICE CREAM?

A: JUST WHEN WE ENTERED THE RESIDENCE TOGETHER.

Q: WHEN YOU CAME BACK IN THE BACK WAY?

A: RIGHT.

Q: WHEN YOU WERE IN THERE TALKING DID THE SUBJECT MATTER OF O.J. SIMPSON COME UP IN THE CONVERSATION?

A: NO.

Q: THE TWO OF YOU NEVER DISCUSSED THAT?

A: NO, WE DIDN'T.

Q: AT THAT TIME? NOW, AT ANY TIME, WHILE YOU WERE INSIDE, IN ANY OF THE THREE TIMES THAT YOU WERE INSIDE THIS LOCATION, DID YOU EVER AT ANY TIME SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPHER INSIDE THE LOCATION?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: NEVER SAW HIM TAKE ANY PICTURES, DID YOU?

A: NOT INSIDE, NO.

Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS CRIME SCENE, WITHOUT PUTTING THE PHOTOGRAPHS BACK UP, FROM THE SIDEWALK TO WHERE MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S BODY WAS LOCATED, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THAT WAS APPROXIMATELY TEN TO TWELVE FEET, IN THAT GENERAL AREA?

A: IT SEEMS LIKE IT WOULD BE A LITTLE FARTHER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, GIVE US YOUR BEST ESTIMATE.

A: FIFTEEN, TWENTY FEET.

Q: YOU PLACE IT SOMEWHERE FIFTEEN TO TWENTY FEET?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: FROM THE SIDEWALK TO WHERE SHE WAS LOCATED; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND FROM THE FRONT OF THAT PROPERTY, SIR, TO THE BACK, ALL THE WAY TO THAT BACK GATE, CAN YOU GIVE US AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MANY FEET THAT WOULD BE?

A: I WOULD ONLY BE GUESSING. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: NOW, YOU HAD WALKED -- YOU TOLD US HOW MANY TIMES YOU WALKED THERE AND WE WANT TO GET YOUR BEST ESTIMATE, NOT A GUESS, YOUR BEST ESTIMATE, SIR.

A: 130 FEET, 140 FEET.

Q: ALL RIGHT. IF I WERE TO TELL YOU THAT IT WAS MORE LIKE ABOUT 160 FEET, WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

A: I DON'T KNOW. I DIDN'T PACE IT OFF. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO LET'S ASSUME IT IS 150 TO 160 FEET.

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THERE IS NO -- ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE. NO FOUNDATION.

MR. COCHRAN: I ASKED HIM TO ASSUME THAT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED. IT IS A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION.

MS. CLARK: BUT YOU HAVE TO BE --

THE COURT: HOLD ON. I THINK WE NEED A LITTLE FROM WHERE TO WHERE? THE SIDEWALK TO THE MID-ALLEY? WHERE IS THE PROPERTY LINE? WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

MR. COCHRAN: CERTAINLY, YOUR HONOR.

Q: ASSUME FROM THAT FRONT GATE NEAR WHERE THE BODY WAS FOUND, THE FEMALE BODY WAS FOUND, TO THE REAR GATE, THAT IS THE DISTANCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU WOULD PUT THAT IN THE AREA OF YOU SAID 130, 140 FEET, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

A: THAT SEEMS A LITTLE LONG, BUT IF YOU SAY SO.

Q: I WANT YOUR BEST ESTIMATE.

A: FROM THE GATE TO GATE I WOULD ESTIMATE 120 MAYBE.

Q: 120 FEET? ALL RIGHT. AS I UNDERSTAND -- I UNDERSTAND THAT IS JUST AN ESTIMATE. IN THAT AREA, AT LEAST IN THE FRONT PART OF THE GATE, THERE WAS A LOT OF BLOOD FLOWING DOWN TOWARD BUNDY; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: THERE WAS A LOT OF BLOOD THERE, WOULD YOU AGREE?

A: YES.

Q: OKAY. AS WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PICTURES. AND GOING BACK TOWARD THE BACK GATE AND WHAT YOU CALL 120 FEET, DO I UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT YOU FOUND WAS FOUR BLOOD DROPS IN THIS 120 FEET; IS THAT CORRECT WITH ONE BLOOD DROP OUT IN THE ALLEYWAY?

A: I DIDN'T COUNT THEM. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: TODAY YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THERE WERE ALTOGETHER?

A: I DIDN'T COUNT THEM. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY THERE WERE?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHATEVER NUMBER YOU HAD, THERE WAS A CERTAIN NUMBER INSIDE THE GATE AND A CERTAIN NUMBER OUTSIDE THE GATE, CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU SAW THIS PHOTOGRAPHER IN THE BACKYARD, IN THE BACK AREA THERE IN THE ALLEYWAY, TAKING PICTURES, IT WAS STILL DARK OUTSIDE AT THAT POINT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME THE PHOTOGRAPHER ARRIVED THERE?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: YOU HAVE NO IDEA?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW HIS NAME EITHER?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: WHEN YOU SAW HIM IN THE BACK ALLEYWAY, WHAT WAS HE TAKING PICTURES OF?

A: WHEN I FIRST SAW HIM HE WAS TAKING A PICTURE NORTH FROM DOROTHY, NORTH THROUGH THE ALLEY. I SAW HIM TAKE A COUPLE PICTURES OF THE REAR OF THE RESIDENCE. HE TOOK A COUPLE PICTURES OF THE VEHICLES, I BELIEVE.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. IF I COULD APPROACH AGAIN.

THE COURT: YES.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: LET'S SEE IF WE CAN LOOK AT THIS TOGETHER AND FIGURE OUT WHICH ONE IS THE PHOTOGRAPHER. OVER HERE WHERE IT SAYS "SID PHOTOS," WOULD THAT BE A SITUATION THAT IS PROBABLY THE PHOTOGRAPHER?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WHAT DOES IT SHOW HIS NAME AS?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: THAT IS HEARSAY. HE CAN READ IT TO HIM TO SEE IF IT REFRESHES --

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. READ THIS TO YOURSELF AND TELL ME WHETHER OR NOT THIS REFRESHES YOUR RECOLLECTION OF THE NAME OF THE PHOTOGRAPHER FROM SID?

A: I NEVER KNEW HIS NAME. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: THIS DOESN'T REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU REMEMBER THAT HE HAD ARRIVED THERE -- ABOUT WHAT TIME HE ARRIVED THERE?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU SAW HIM IN THE REAR OF THE LOCATION, SIR?

A: IT WAS AFTER I HAD SHOWN FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS THE HOUSE AND CAME BACK OUT.

Q: AND WHAT TIME WOULD THAT BE?

A: SOMETIME AROUND 3:00.

Q: AROUND THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING?

A: I BELIEVE. I'M NOT POSITIVE.

Q: AGAIN, THAT IS YOUR BEST ESTIMATE, AROUND THREE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING, AND THAT IS WHEN YOU SAW HIM TAKING THESE PICTURES IN THE REAR; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, YOU POINTED OUT IN THE COURSE OF YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT NOT TO TRAIPSE THROUGH AND TRACK THROUGH THIS PARTICULAR CRIME SCENE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND YOU DESCRIBED FOR US ON MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY OCCASIONS DURING MISS CLARK'S DIRECT EXAMINATION THE GREAT PAINS YOU TOOK NOT TO WALK THROUGH THIS BLOOD OR ANY SO-CALLED FOOTPRINTS, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND BECAUSE YOU KNEW IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO TRY AND PRESERVE THE INTEGRITY OF THE EVIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: YOU KNEW THAT EITHER THE DETECTIVES OR SOMEONE UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE DETECTIVE, A CRIMINALIST, WOULD COME OUT AND TRY TO MARK THESE VARIOUS EXHIBITS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: IN FACT YOU ALSO DESCRIBED FOR US THAT AT SOME POINT YOU SAW SOME BLOOD ON THE REAR GATE OF THE LOCATION THERE?

A: CORRECT.

Q: YOU DESCRIBED FOR US -- REMEMBER THAT?

A: YES.

Q: BY THE WAY, YOU NEVER AT ANY TIME EVER SAW THE PHOTOGRAPHER TAKING ANY PICTURES OF THE BLOOD WHICH YOU CLAIM YOU SAW ON THAT REAR GATE, DID YOU?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE FIRST PICTURES TAKEN OF THAT BLOOD ON JUNE --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED, SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: LET ME PHRASE IT THIS WAY, YOUR HONOR:

Q: WERE YOU AWARE OF WHETHER OR NOT ANY PHOTOGRAPHS WERE EVER TAKEN ON JUNE 13, 1994, OF THIS BLOOD THAT WAS SUPPOSEDLY ON THAT REAR GATE ON THAT DATE?

A: NO, SIR.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT DATE THEY GOT BACK OUT THERE TO TAKE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: IF EVER?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT ASSUMPTION FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. COCHRAN: I ASKED IF HE KNEW.

THE COURT: HE SAID NO. THE ANSWER WILL STAND.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: WERE YOU PRESENT AT ANY TIME ANY PICTURES WERE TAKEN OF THE SUPPOSED BLOOD ON THE REAR GATE?

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I PUT THIS EXHIBIT UP HERE FOR A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: WHICH EXHIBIT?

MR. COCHRAN: IT IS THE ONE OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE REAR GATE. THIS, FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, IS 53-A.

Q: SO THAT WE ARE CLEAR, OFFICER RISKE, THESE PHOTOGRAPHS DEPICTED ON 53-A, YOU NEVER SAW THOSE TAKEN ON JUNE 13, DID YOU?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: IN FACT, WHILE YOU WERE STILL OUT THERE ON JUNE 13, BEFORE YOU LEFT, HAD THEY STARTED HOSING DOWN THAT AREA YET?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DIDN'T COME BACK ON ANY DATE AFTER THAT, DID YOU?

A: JUST IN PASSING TO CHASE AWAY LOOKIE-LOOS AND STUFF.

Q: THAT WAS DURING JUST THE COURSE OF YOUR PATROL DUTIES?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND AT SOME POINT IN THE COURSE OF YOUR PATROL DUTIES, AFTER JUNE 13, YOU BECAME AWARE THAT SOMEBODY HOSED DOWN THIS ENTIRE AREA, DID YOU NOT?

A: I ASSUME THEY HOSED IT DOWN AFTER THEY WERE DONE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU SAW THE BLOOD WAS UP AT SOME POINT, DID YOU NOT, WHEN YOU DROVE PAST?

A: CORRECT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHEN THAT WAS, SIR?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: YOU DON'T?

A: NO.

Q: THE PHOTOGRAPHS MISS CLARK SHOWED YOU TO YOUR LEFT WITH REGARD TO THE EXHIBITS AND THE SUPPOSED BLOOD ON THE REAR GATE AT BUNDY, THOSE WERE NOT TAKEN WHEN YOU WERE THERE ON JUNE 13, WERE THEY?

A: OF THE GATE?

Q: YES, OF THE GATE?

A: NO, SIR.

MR. COCHRAN: I SEE SOME DARK POWDERY SUBSTANCE ON THE REAR GATE. YOUR HONOR, THIS IS ON 53-A.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT DARK COLORING IS ON THAT GATE?

A: THAT WOULD BE AN ASSUMPTION.

Q: YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER.

A: I WOULD ASSUME IT IS PRINT DUST.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WAS THAT PRINT DUST ON THERE WHEN YOU WERE THERE THAT NIGHT?

A: NO.

Q: THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WAS PUT ON AFTERWARDS; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO WHEN YOU LEFT AT 7:15 ON JUNE 13, THAT PRINT DUST WASN'T THERE, WAS IT?

A: NO.

Q: WHEN YOU WERE OUT THERE ON JUNE 13, UP TO THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT AT 7:15, YOU DIDN'T SEE ANYBODY OUT WITH ONE OF THESE LITTLE RULERS SAYING "LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION DIVISION PHOTOGRAPHIC SECTION" AS DEPICTED ON 53-D? YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: AND AS BEST YOU CAN TELL, IN LOOKING AT 53-A FROM YOUR VANTAGE POINT THERE, THOSE PURPORT TO BE PHOTOGRAPHS NUMBERED OF THE REAR GATE AT BUNDY; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: HAVE YOU EVER SEEN ANY PHOTOGRAPHS IN CONNECTION WITH THIS CASE OF PICTURES TAKEN OF THE FRONT GATE AT BUNDY?

A: NOT SPECIFICALLY OF THE FRONT GATE, NO.

Q: NOW, AS A POLICE OFFICER OF SOME FOUR YEARS EXPERIENCE, YOU AWARE OF HOW PHOTOGRAPHS ARE TAKEN SEQUENTIALLY SO THAT THE NUMBERS -- YOU TRY NOT TO MIX UP THE NUMBERS WHEN YOU ARE TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS. IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT? YOU ARE TRAINED NOT TO DO THAT?

A: I DON'T TAKE PICTURES WITH NUMBERS BY THEM. I'M SORRY, I DON'T KNOW.

Q: YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THAT?

A: I HAVE SEEN THEM TAKE PICTURES. I HAVE SEEN THEM NUMBER EVIDENCE, BUT I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF HOW TO DO IT.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO, YOUR HONOR, MARK ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH, IF I CAN. I WILL MARK THIS DEFENDANT'S 1007.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: D-1007.

(DEFT'S 1007 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH. SHOW IT TO COUNSEL.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO PLACE DEFENDANT'S 1007 BEFORE YOU.

Q: AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT MAN DEPICTED IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME, BUT I RECOGNIZE HIM.

Q: OKAY. WHO IS HE?

A: I BELIEVE HE WORKS FOR SID.

Q: AS A CRIMINALIST?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WOULD THE NAME FUNG, F-U-N-G, RING A BELL TO YOU?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: DID YOU EVER SEE THIS MAN, MR. DENNIS FUNG, AT THE CRIME SCENE WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: HE WASN'T THERE WHILE YOU WERE THERE, WAS HE?

A: NO.

Q: HE APPEARS TO BE IN D-1007 POINTING TO AN AREA NEAR THE TOP OF THE FENCE AND THIS IS THE FENCE THAT IS DEPICTED HERE ON 53-A; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: TOP OF THE GATE, YES.

Q: TOP OF THE GATE. AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT DATE THIS PICTURE -- THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN, DO YOU?

A: NO, I DON'T.

MR. COCHRAN: I NEXT WANT TO MARK, YOUR HONOR, D-1008 AND I WILL SHOW IT TO COUNSEL AND IT IS A PHOTOGRAPH ALSO OF THE FENCE ON THE PROPERTY.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

(DEFT'S 1008 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THIS PHOTOGRAPH, D-1008. THERE IS A NO. 116, A CARD WITH "116" THEREON, AND I WANT YOU TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PARTICULAR PHOTOGRAPH?

A: LOOKS LIKE A PICTURE OF A GATE BUT --

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU KNOW WHICH GATE THAT IS ON THE PROPERTY?

A: I CAN MAKE AN ASSUMPTION.

Q: WELL, TO, NOT AN ASSUMPTION. DO YOU KNOW WHICH ONE IT IS?

A: BOTH THE GATES LOOK THE SAME. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: ALL RIGHT. HOW MANY GATES ARE THERE ALTOGETHER, SIR?

A: TWO.

Q: THERE IS THE REAR GATE, RIGHT, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT?

A: THAT IS CORRECT.

Q: WHERE IS THIS OTHER GATE?

A: IN THE FRONT.

Q: THERE IS ONE NEAR THE FRONT?

A: YES.

Q: SO CAN YOU LOOK AT THIS AND TELL WHETHER THIS IS IN THE FRONT OR IN THE REAR?

A: I WOULD SAY THAT WAS IN THE FRONT.

Q: YOU THINK THIS WAS IN THE FRONT. ALL RIGHT. NOW, IF THIS WAS IN THE FRONT -- IF D-1000 -- IF D-1008 IS IN THE FRONT, DO YOU THINK IT HAS A NO. 116 ON IT WHEN YOU HAVE TURNED AND LOOK TO YOUR RIGHT AT 53-B?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THE WITNESS HAS INDICATED HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE NUMBERS.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH ON THIS?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR -- GOOD AFTERNOON, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: GOOD AFTERNOON. YOU ASKED ME FOR A SIDE BAR AND YOU STAND ME UP.

MR. COCHRAN: WE WERE TRYING TO BRING A LARGE EXHIBIT AND WE COULDN'T -- MARCIA AND I WERE FUMBLING AROUND AND WE COULDN'T FIND IT. WE WILL BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THIS IN AN OFFER OF PROOF. THESE GUYS MISLABELED EVERYTHING. FIRST OF ALL, LET ME TELL YOU THE OFFER OF PROOF.

THE COURT: BUT FOR THIS GUY TO TELL YOU THIS? IS A BRAND NEW POLICE OFFICER WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW THEY DO THIS STUFF. TO ASK HIM HOW -- IF IT MAKES ANY SENSE, IT IS A MEANINGLESS ANSWER.

MR. COCHRAN: HE IS THE FIRST GUY AT THE SCENE AND HE IS THE GUY WHO IS IN CHARGE UNTIL THE OTHER GUYS GET THERE. HE MAY BE A NEW OFFICER, BUT THESE JURORS DON'T KNOW THAT, AND MARCIA HAS HIM AS THE GREATEST SLEUTH SINCE SHERLOCK HOLMES. SHE BUILDS THIS GUY UP. AND YOU TELL ME HE IS A NEW GUY. THAT WAS ABOUT A HUNDRED QUESTIONS AGO.

THE COURT: HE IS GOING TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION BY SAYING I HAVE NO IDEA.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, THEN IF HE SAYS THAT, THEN I WILL MOVE ON, BUT ALL I WANT --

MS. CLARK: HE ALREADY SAID. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. THAT IS WHY YOU SHOULD ALREADY MOVE ON.

MR. COCHRAN: LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I AM TRYING TO ESTABLISH.

MS. CLARK: WE ALL KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO ESTABLISH, JOHNNIE. THE THING IS YOU ARE GOING TO --

THE COURT: HOLD ON.

MS. CLARK: -- BUT THIS IS ROTTEN.

THE COURT: MARCIA, DO ME A HUGE FAVOR. WHEN I SAY "HOLD ON," THAT MEANS STOP.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. I'M TRYING TO ESTABLISH WHAT DID HE MEAN BY SAYING -- THIS IS RIGHT, THIS IS THE FRONT GATE, THAT -- AND YOU MAY BE RIGHT, YOU USUALLY ARE. NOT ALWAYS, BUT YOU USUALLY ARE.

THE COURT: THERE ARE SEVERAL WITNESSES WHO CAN ESTABLISH -- WHO ARE COMING WHO CAN ESTABLISH THAT. IT DOESN'T MAKE LOGICAL SENSE TO ME, BUT THIS IS NOT THE RIGHT GUY.

MR. COCHRAN: YOU KNOW WHAT --

MR. DARDEN: WHY DO YOU WANT TO BEAT UP ON A KID? ON 85-YEAR OLD WOMEN AND A KID.

MR. COCHRAN: I WAS SO NICE TO THAT LADY YESTERDAY AND SHE WAS TUNING ME OUT.

MS. CLARK: WE ALL WANTED TO.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY, JUDGE, I WILL MOVE ON ON THIS. I THINK THE POINT IS WELL TAKEN.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: IN FACT, I WILL WITHDRAW THAT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT --

MS. CLARK: ALL THAT EFFORT.

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: WITH REGARD TO D-1008, WHICH YOU HAVE INDICATED YOU BELIEVE TO BE NO. 116 ON THE FRONT GATE, YOU -- WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU DESCRIBED THAT AT SOME POINT WHEN DETECTIVE PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN WERE STILL IN CHARGE, I PRESUME, OR AT SOME POINT THAT MORNING -- STRIKE THE LATTER PART -- THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS CAME TO YOU AND ASKED YOU FOR DIRECTIONS TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE?

A: IT WAS EITHER PHILLIPS OR FUHRMAN. I KNOW PHILLIPS GAVE ME A PHONE AND ONE OF THEM ASKED ME DIRECTIONS.

Q: WELL, LET'S THINK BACK IN YOUR MIND'S EYE. DID FUHRMAN EVER SAY TO YOU THAT HE HAD BEEN TO THAT LOCATION BEFORE THAT MORNING?

A: TO --

Q: TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE, MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S HOME?

A: NO.

Q: HE NEVER SAID THAT?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. THIS WAS PREPARATORY TO THE OFFICERS GOING OVER TO THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO BY THAT TIME VANNATTER AND LANGE WERE ALSO PRESENT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: WERE YOU AWARE THAT DETECTIVE VANNATTER KNEW HOW TO GET OVER TO THAT LOCATION, HAVING WORKED WEST LOS ANGELES?

A: NO.

Q: BY THAT TIME VANNATTER AND LANGE WOULD THEN BE THE ONES IN CHARGE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: I ASSUME SO, YES.

Q: ONCE THEY ARRIVED AT THE SCENE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: SO WAS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING ALL FOUR OF THESE DETECTIVES, VANNATTER, LANGE, FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS, WERE GOING TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND CAN YOU -- DID YOU SEE THEM LEAVE AT SOME POINT TO GO TO THAT LOCATION?

A: NO. PHILLIPS GAVE ME A PHONE. THAT IS THE LAST TIME I SAW HIM.

Q: NOW, WHEN PHILLIPS GAVE YOU A PHONE, WHAT KIND OF PHONE WAS THIS? A CELLULAR PHONE?

A: IT WAS A CELLULAR PHONE.

Q: ONE OF THOSE LITTLE HAND-HELD CELLULAR PHONES?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WAS THAT PHONE OWNED BY THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES?

A: I DON'T KNOW. HE JUST GAVE ME A PHONE AND SAID, "IF YOU NEED ANYTHING, CALL ME."

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT PHONE COME FROM?

A: NO.

Q: YOU HAD NEVER SEEN HIM BEFORE?

A: NO.

Q: HE JUST HANDED IT TO YOU?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT TIME OF THE EVENING OR EARLY MORNING WAS THAT THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS HANDED YOU THE CELL PHONE?

A: IT WAS BEFORE THEY LEFT.

Q: WAS IT LIGHT, SIR, AT THAT POINT?

A: NO, IT WASN'T.

Q: STILL DARK?

A: YES.

Q: IT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT ALL FOUR OF THESE DETECTIVES WERE GOING TO LEAVE TO GO OVER TO MR. O.J. SIMPSON'S HOUSE?

A: THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING, YES.

Q: HAD YOU SHARED WITH THEM THE FACT THAT YOU SAW AN ENVELOPE WITH A RETURN ADDRESS OF MR. SIMPSON INSIDE THE HOUSE? HAD YOU TOLD ANYBODY THAT?

A: I DON'T THINK SO, NO.

Q: HAD ANY OF THESE OFFICERS, OTHER THAN FUHRMAN THAT YOU KNOW OF, BEEN INSIDE TO SEE THE PHOTOS ON THE WALL?

A: JUST PHILLIPS, PHILLIPS AND MYSELF.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DO YOU RECALL HAVING ANY CONVERSATION AT ALL WITH VANNATTER OR LANGE ABOUT WHERE O.J. SIMPSON LIVED?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN PHILLIPS HANDED YOU THIS CELLULAR PHONE, YOU KEPT IT IN YOUR POSSESSION?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU EVER GIVE IT BACK TO HIM THAT MORNING?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: WHAT TIME WAS THAT YOU GAVE IT BACK TO HIM, SIR, IF YOU RECALL?

A: IT WAS WHEN HE AND FUHRMAN RETURNED TO THE SCENE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME IT WAS.

Q: DO YOU KNOW -- YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME THAT WAS?

A: NO.

Q: WHILE YOU HAVE THAT PHONE, DID YOU MAKE ANY PHONE CALLS ON THAT CELLULAR PHONE?

A: NO.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT PHILLIPS HAD ANOTHER PHONE OR A SECOND PHONE?

A: I DON'T KNOW. HE JUST GAVE ME A PHONE.

Q: WHEN HE GAVE YOU THE PHONE HE SAID, "CALL ME IF YOU NEED ME"?

A: NO, HE SAID, "WE'LL CALL IF WE NEED ANYTHING."

Q: HE SAID "WE'LL CALL"?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: MEANING ONE OF THE FOUR DETECTIVES WOULD CALL YOU BACK?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A LOG OF DETECTIVE PHILLIPS' PHONE CALL MADE THAT PARTICULAR MORNING?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHILE YOU HAD THE PHONE -- PHONE IN YOUR POSSESSION, YOU NEVER MADE ANY CALLS, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT TIME DO YOU THINK THAT DETECTIVE PHILLIPS RETURNED FROM THE ROCKINGHAM RESIDENCE, AT THE TIME YOU GAVE HIM THE PHONE BACK?

A: I WOULD ESTIMATE SOMETIME AROUND 6:30 IN THE MORNING.

Q: ABOUT 6:30?

A: MAYBE A LITTLE LATER. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: ABOUT HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY THEY WERE GONE?

A: I WOULD SAY A LITTLE OVER AN HOUR.

Q: WOULD YOU -- AS YOU SEARCH YOUR MEMORY, DO YOU THINK THAT THEY LEFT SOMEWHERE AROUND 5:30 AND CAME BACK AT ABOUT 6:30 OR 6:40?

A: I'M NOT POSITIVE WHAT TIME THEY LEFT, NO, SIR.

Q: DID YOU KEEP THE PHONE ON YOUR PERSON AT ALL TIMES DURING THAT HOUR?

A: IT WAS ON THE DASH OF MY PATROL CAR, YES.

Q: WAS ANYBODY ELSE IN THE PATROL CAR WITH YOU?

A: UMM --

Q: AT THAT TIME?

A: MY PARTNER WAS NEAR IT, BUT NOT IN IT, NO.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT HE USED IT?

A: NOBODY COULD HAVE USED IT. IT DIDN'T WORK.

Q: IT DIDN'T WORK?

A: THE BATTERY WAS DEAD.

Q: BATTERY HAD GONE DOWN AT THAT POINT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO WHEN YOU GAVE THIS CELLULAR PHONE BACK TO PHILLIPS THE BATTERY HAD GONE DOWN; IS THAT RIGHT, OR WAS DOWN?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS DOWN? YOU TRIED TO USE IT?

A: BECAUSE I BELIEVE THEY CALLED -- THEY EITHER HAD A BLACK AND WHITE WITH THEM AND THEY USED THE RADIO TO CONTACT US, OR THEY HAD ANOTHER PHONE, BECAUSE I TRIED TO SEE IF THE PHONE WAS BROKEN AND IT WASN'T WORKING AT ALL.

Q: SO YOU TRIED TO USE IT AND IT DIDN'T WORK DURING THAT TIME?

A: I TURNED IT ON TO SEE IF THEY WERE TRYING TO CALL US AND IT WAS DEAD.

Q: YOU COULDN'T TURN IT ON?

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO MARK THIS AT THIS POINT AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT IN ORDER, D-1009.

THE COURT: 1009.

MR. COCHRAN: AND 9.

(DEFT'S 1009 FOR ID = 2-PG PHONE LOG)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW THE NUMBER OF THAT PARTICULAR PHONE?

A: NO, I DON'T.

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, MAY I SEE WHAT IT IS COUNSEL MARKED?

MR. COCHRAN: SURE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: AND I PRESUME YOU DON'T KNOW THE NUMBER OF THE PHONE THAT YOU HAD AT THAT PARTICULAR EVENING?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, WHEN YOU WROTE -- YOU WROTE OUT A REPORT REGARDING YOUR OBSERVATIONS THAT PARTICULAR MORNING; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: I WOULDN'T CALL IT A REPORT; I MADE A STATEMENT.

Q: OKAY. WELL, YOU WROTE OUT A STATEMENT ABOUT YOUR INVOLVEMENT ON THAT PARTICULAR MORNING?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN WRITING THAT STATEMENT OUT YOU TRIED TO BE, OF COURSE, AS ACCURATE AS YOU COULD?

A: I WROTE WHAT ACTIONS WE TOOK. I DIDN'T WRITE OUT EVERYTHING, NO.

Q: THE QUESTION IS DID YOU TRY TO BE ACCURATE IN WHAT YOU WROTE?

A: YES.

Q: WHEN YOU WERE IN THE ACADEMY YOU LEARNED HOW TO WRITE REPORT, DID YOU NOT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WHAT TIME, OFFICER RISKE, DID YOU WRITE THIS REPORT, DO YOU RECALL?

A: I WOULD SAY AROUND 4:30.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET ME APPROACH AND I WOULD LIKE TO MARK THIS D-1010, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. D-1010.

MR. COCHRAN: D-1010 AND I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH.

(DEFT'S 1010 FOR ID = 2-PG DOC/R. RISKE)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU THIS REPORT, FIRST OF ALL, AND ASK YOU IF THIS PRINTING IS YOURS, FIRST OF ALL, OFFICER RISKE? WOULD YOU LOOK AT D-1010. IS THAT YOURS?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: IS THIS PRINTING YOUR PRINTING?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: I WANT TO TURN IT OVER. THIS PURPORTS TO BE A SIGNATURE HERE.

A: THAT IS MINE.

Q: IS THAT YOUR SIGNATURE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND IT HAS -- IS THAT YOUR NUMBER AS AN LAPD OFFICER?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WEST L.A. PATROL AND 6/13/94. WHAT TIME WAS THAT?

A: 5:15.

Q: AND SO YOU WROTE THIS REPORT WHILE YOU WERE STILL AT THE SCENE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND WHERE DID YOU WRITE THIS REPORT? WHERE WERE YOU WHEN YOU WROTE IT?

A: I WAS IN THE REAR ALLEY SITTING IN MY CAR.

Q: WERE YOU ACCOMPANIED BY ANYBODY AT THAT POINT?

A: MY PARTNER, OFFICER TERRAZAS.

Q: OKAY. HE WROTE A REPORT ALSO?

A: YES.

Q: DID YOU BOTH WRITE THEM AT THE SAME TIME?

A: NO.

Q: WHO WROTE THEIR REPORT FIRST, IF YOU RECALL?

A: I BELIEVE HE DID.

Q: YOU THINK HE PROCEEDED FIRST?

A: YES.

Q: DOES IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT YOU WROTE YOUR REPORT AT ABOUT 5:15 IN THE MORNING?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, IN THIS REPORT -- YOU DON'T AT ANY PLACE IN THIS REPORT INDICATE THAT YOU WENT INSIDE THE RESIDENCE, USED THE PHONE, CALLED SERGEANT ROSSI, SAW AN ENVELOPE WITH O.J. SIMPSON'S NAME -- RETURN ADDRESS THEREON AND FELT HE WAS IN ANY WAY INVOLVED? YOU DON'T MENTION THAT, DO YOU?

A: I DON'T BELIEVE SO, NO.

Q: DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AND SEE?

A: I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS IN THERE.

Q: WHY DON'T YOU READ IT TO YOURSELF, FIRST OF ALL, AND THEN WE WILL ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.) OKAY.

Q: HAVE YOU READ THAT TO YOURSELF?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND YOU DON'T SEE ANYWHERE IN THAT REPORT WHERE YOU MENTIONED GOING IN AND USING MISS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S PHONE, DO YOU?

A: NO.

Q: IN FACT, WHAT YOU INDICATE SPECIFICALLY IS THAT, AND I WILL QUOTE:

"I THEN OBSERVED BLOODY FOOTPRINTS ON THE STEPS AND LANDING BEHIND VICTIM 1. FOOTPRINTS WERE HEADED WESTBOUND ON THE SIDEWALK BETWEEN 873 AND 875 SOUTH BUNDY." YOU WROTE THAT, DID YOU NOT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: "I THEN OBSERVED THE FRONT DOOR OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY TO BE STANDING OPEN." YOU WROTE THAT, DIDN'T YOU?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: "MY PARTNER AND I THEN BACKED OUT AND REQUESTED A SUPERVISOR, ADDITIONAL UNITS, R/A." WHAT DOES "R/A" MEAN?

A: RESCUE AMBULANCE.

Q: SO NOW WHEN YOU SAID YOU BACKED OUT AND REQUESTED A SUPERVISOR, WAS THAT SERGEANT ROSSI?

A: SERGEANT COON.

Q: SERGEANT COON. AND YOU DIDN'T WRITE THAT ON THERE, THAT YOU WENT INSIDE AND MADE A CALL TO YOUR IMMEDIATE SUPERVISOR, DID YOU?

A: NO, I DIDN'T, NO.

Q: NOW, YOU WERE ASKED A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW YOU PUT UP THESE -- THIS YELLOW TAPE TO SECURE THE SCENE. DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND AGAIN THAT WAS AN EFFORT TO TRY AND KEEP INTRUDERS OUT; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: POLICE OFFICERS, HOWEVER, WERE FREE TO COME AND GO INSIDE THAT SCENE; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: NO.

Q: THEY WEREN'T FREE TO COME AND GO?

A: NO.

Q: THERE WEREN'T A NUMBER OF POLICE OFFICERS WHO WALKED INSIDE THAT SCENE?

A: NO, THERE WEREN'T.

Q: AND IS THAT DURING THE TIME YOU WERE THERE?

A: DURING THE TIME I WAS THERE, RIGHT.

Q: YOU CAN'T SPEAK WHAT HAPPENED LATER, CAN YOU?

A: NO.

Q: BUT WHILE YOU WERE THERE --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, VAGUE, "THERE" AS OPPOSED TO WHEN HE LEFT THE SCENE.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: WHILE YOU WERE THERE, WHEN THE YELLOW TAPE WAS UP, GIVE US THE NAMES OF THE OFFICERS WHO WALKED INSIDE THE RESIDENCE THERE OR INSIDE THIS CRIME SCENE INSIDE THE YELLOW TAPE AREA? WOULD YOU GIVE US THOSE NAMES?

A: JUST INSIDE THE CRIME SCENE?

Q: YES, AND WHO WERE IN AND AROUND THE AREA THERE AT THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION AGAIN. THAT IS VAGUE. WHERE?

THE COURT: INSIDE THE TAPE?

MR. COCHRAN: INSIDE THE TAPE.

THE COURT: YOUR QUESTION WAS COMPOUND.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: AND COMPLEX.

MR. COCHRAN: LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR, IF I MIGHT. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO -- WITH REGARD TO THE CRIME SCENE, I WANT YOU TO TELL THE COURT AND JURY THE OFFICERS WHO WERE GIVEN ANY ACCESS INSIDE EITHER THE FRONT GATE OR THE BACK GATE OR THE RESIDENCE THERE AT BUNDY WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT IS COMPOUND.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT.

Q: CAN YOU TELL US THE NAME OF ANY OFFICERS WHO WERE GIVEN ACCESS TO THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

A: WELL, THE BUNDY CRIME SCENE ENCOMPASSES A LARGE AREA.

Q: I UNDERSTAND THAT. TELL ME THE NAMES OF THE OFFICERS.

A: I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT A LOG OR SOMETHING.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. MAY I APPROACH AGAIN, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YOU MAY.

MR. COCHRAN: WITH 1006?

THE COURT: YES.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WILL PLACE BEFORE YOU D-1006 AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THIS AND REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION AND TELL THE COURT AND JURY WHICH OFFICERS, IF ANY, WERE GIVEN SUCH AN ACCESS.

A: THERE WAS MYSELF AND OFFICER TERRAZAS, SERGEANT COON, OFFICER WALLEY, OFFICER GLORIOSO WAS IN THE BACK, PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN SERGEANT ROSSI AND THE DETECTIVES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. ANYBODY ELSE THAT YOU CAN RECALL AT THIS POINT?

A: NO.

Q: WHAT ABOUT LIEUTENANT SPANGLER, DID HE COME AT SOME POINT?

A: YES, SIR, HE CAME. HE WAS IN THE REAR.

Q: HE WAS A LIEUTENANT. HE COULD GET INSIDE, COULDN'T HE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: LET'S SEE IF WE CAN COUNT THEM. IT WOULD BE RISKE AND TERRAZAS, TWO. CUMMINGS AND SANCHEZ, FOUR?

A: CUMMINGS AND SANCHEZ WEREN'T IN THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: THEY WERE NOT? SERGEANT COON WAS?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT ABOUT CAPTAIN ZIEMAN, HE WASN'T THERE?

A: HE WAS -- I BELIEVE HE WAS AT THE TAPE. THAT WAS IT. HE DIDN'T GO ACROSS THE TAPE. I SAW HIM AT THE TAPE.

Q: OKAY. MC ALLEN AND WALLEY?

A: IT IS ACTUALLY MC GOWAN.

Q: MC GOWAN?

A: HE DIDN'T GO IN THE CRIME SCENE; WALLEY DID.

Q: WALLEY, TWO. FIVE?

A: THEY WEREN'T THERE.

Q: OKAY. FOUR. WHAT ABOUT HYDER AND VASQUEZ?

A: THEY WENT TO THE FOOT OF THE ALLEY AND TOOK THE TWO CHILDREN TO THE STATION.

Q: WHAT ABOUT GLORIOSO?

A: GLORIOSO WAS IN THE REAR.

Q: AND THEN THE TWO DETECTIVES?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THEN OF COURSE THE OTHER TWO DETECTIVES FROM ROBBERY/HOMICIDE?

A: SERGEANT ROSSI. I DON'T SEE HIS NAME.

Q: ROSSI, OKAY, AND POSSIBLY THE PHOTOGRAPHER?

A: NOT -- HE WENT ON THE GRASS, IF YOU CONSIDER THAT IN THE CRIME SCENE.

Q: HE WAS IN THE BACK TAKING PICTURES, WASN'T HE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN VANNATTER AND LANGE; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: CAN YOU RECALL ANY OTHERS AT THIS POINT, SIR?

A: NO.

Q: WAS THERE A CAPTAIN GARTLAND FROM HOMICIDE DETECTIVES WHO ARRIVED AT OR ABOUT 7:20? DID YOU SEE HIM THAT MORNING?

A: I WAS GONE. I LEFT AT 7:15.

Q: OKAY. SO YOU DIDN'T SEE CAPTAIN GARTLAND?

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: NOW, I WANT TO SHOW YOU NOW A PICTURE OR THREE PICTURES. I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW COUNSEL. AND ASK YOU WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN RECOGNIZE THIS PARTICULAR OFFICER. I WILL SHOW THESE THREE PICTURES TO COUNSEL.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MS. CLARK: LIKE TO APPROACH, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WITH THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)

THE COURT: MAY I? THANK YOU.

MS. CLARK: YES.

MR. DARDEN: HE IS SLIPPERY.

MS. CLARK: LIKE AN EEL.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, WE SPEND ALL THIS TIME AND THIS IS THE EXACT SAME CRIME SCENE, ABSOLUTELY AND --

MS. CLARK: THE ONLY PROBLEM WE HAVE WITH THIS, THE SAME ONE AS BEFORE, THAT IT IS ABOUT TWELVE HOURS LATER, AND TO SHOW THIS TO THIS JURY WITH THIS WITNESS AFTER THE CRIME SCENE IS NO LONGER SECURED IS NOTHING SHORT OF A LIE.

MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS NOT -- ABSOLUTELY NOT. THIS IS NOT MISLEADING.

MS. CLARK: IF COUNSEL CAN ESTABLISH A TIME FOUNDATION, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT, BUT RIGHT NOW THERE IS NO FOUNDATION. THEY ARE MISLEADING.

MR. COCHRAN: CAN I BE HEARD?

THE COURT: SURE.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. WE SPEND OURS THIS MORNING WITH HER TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS CRIME SCENE IS INVIOLATE, THAT PEOPLE DON'T GET IN THERE, THERE IS TAPE UP AND EVERYTHING.

WE HAVE EVIDENCE, WE HAVE VIDEOTAPES. SHE KNOWS PEOPLE ARE WALKING THROUGH THERE AND WE CAN IDENTIFY THESE GUYS. WE CAN IDENTIFY -- WE CAN IDENTIFY VANNATTER, LANGE, TWO OR THREE OTHERS THAT I DON'T RECALL RIGHT NOW WE WILL BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY WHO WERE WALKING AT THAT SCENE. NOW, THIS IS A UNIFORMED OFFICER. THIS -- THIS AREA WAS HOSED DOWN WHEN THEY FINISHED USING IT. IT WAS HOSED DOWN AT THAT POINT.

MS. CLARK: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: THIS IS WHAT I WAS ASKING BEFORE. THEY CAME BACK ON JULY 3RD AND TOOK THOSE OTHER PICTURES, THE SUPPOSEDLY IMPORTANT STUFF BY THE GATE. THEY CAN TRY ALL THEY WANT, JUDGE, BUT ULTIMATELY THE LAPD HAS TO RISE AND FALL ON ITS OWN. WE ALL LOVE THE LAPD, BUT THEY ARE AREN'T PERFECT AND I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT. AT ANY RATE, YOUR HONOR, THIS PHOTOGRAPH, I HAVE A RIGHT, IT SEEMS, AFTER ALL SHE HAS DONE ASKING THIS PARTICULAR OFFICER IF HE SAW AN OFFICER LIKE THIS WALKING THROUGH THE SCENE. WE HAVE THIS ON VIDEO AND WE HAVE NOW PRINTED IT UP. THIS IS THE EXACT SAME SCENE THEY HAVE WITH SHOWING WALKING RIGHT UP. SHE IS TALKING ABOUT WALKING OVER HERE. THIS IS WHAT CROSS-EXAMINATION IS FOR.

MS. CLARK: CROSS-EXAMINATION IS NOT TO MISLEAD.

THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. WHAT I HAVE HERE ARE THREE PHOTOGRAPHS WHICH HAVE NOT YET BEEN MARKED. THEY BEAR NUMBERS 57, 58 AND 59 IN THE UPPER RIGHT-HAND CORNER. 57 APPEARS TO BE AT THE SIDEWALK LEADING INTO THE WALKWAY. THERE -- YOU CAN SEE FROM BELOW THE KNEES DOWN, APPEARS TO BE DARK PANTS AND DARK SHOES. NO. 58 IS -- APPEARS TO BE VIRTUALLY THE SAME LOCATION, HOWEVER, IT SHOWS FROM ABOUT MID-BUTTOCKS DOWN AND THE NEXT STEP ON TO THE WALKWAY; HOWEVER, IT IS DIFFICULT TO TELL IF THIS IS SOMEBODY IN UNIFORM OR SOMEBODY WEARING A SUIT JACKET BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TELL HERE. IT APPEARS TO BE A SUIT JACKET.

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL REPRESENT TO THE COURT THESE PICTURES ARE TAKEN IN SEQUENCE FROM THE VIDEO. THIS IS THE SAME OFFICER AND I CAN SHOW YOU. I WILL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO SHOW YOU.

MS. CLARK: IF COUNSEL KNOWS ALL THAT, PERHAPS COUNSEL CAN SUPPLY US WITH THE TIME AND THE DATE THAT THIS OCCURRED.

MR. DARDEN: OR EVEN THE VIDEO.

MR. COCHRAN: WE HAVE THE VIDEO.

THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, BOTH SIDES. ALL RIGHT. 59 APPEARS TO SHOW THE REAR FROM FEET TO JUST BELOW THE ARMPITS OF A -- APPEARS TO BE A POLICE OFFICER FROM THE STYLE OF UNIFORM, THE T-SHIRT THAT ISN'T QUITE BIG ENOUGH OR TOO BIG.

MR. COCHRAN: TOO BIG.

THE COURT: AND A SAM BROWNE WITH APPROPRIATE GUN, RADIO, WHAT APPEARS TO BE A TEAR GAS CANNISTER AND HANDCUFFS, BUT IT ALSO APPEARS TO BE DAYLIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: DAYLIGHT, BUT, JUDGE, I HAVE -- THIS CRIME SCENE, THE CORONER DOESN'T COME FOR TEN HOURS.

THE COURT: THE QUESTION IS -- THERE IS ONLY ONE THAT IS APPROPRIATE. FROM THESE THREE PHOTOGRAPHS CAN YOU IDENTIFY THIS OFFICER?

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

MS. CLARK: OBVIOUSLY NO ONE CAN. THIS IS SO DISINGENUOUS. THIS IS SO DISINGENUOUS. LOOK AT THIS.

MR. COCHRAN: I SHOWED IT TO THEM FIRST. THAT IS NOT DISINGENUOUS.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS EXTREMELY HIGHLY AND COMPLETELY DISINGENUOUS. THERE IS NO WAY THAT ANYONE COULD IDENTIFY WHO THIS IS. IF IT WERE MY HUSBAND I COULDN'T IDENTIFY HIM.

THE COURT: IS THERE AN OFFER OF PROOF THAT YOU CAN SHOW ME DATE AND TIME WHEN THIS WAS TAKEN?

MR. COCHRAN: YES. IT WAS TAKEN -- AS NEAR AS WE CAN TELL IT WAS TAKEN ON JUNE 13. WE WILL BE ABLE TO LINK IT UP.

MS. CLARK: BELIEF IS NOT AN OFFER OF PROOF. LET'S HEAR IT.

MR. COCHRAN: HERE IS THE OFFER OF PROOF. WE ALSO HAVE A VIDEO. YOU HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE. THIS WAS TAKEN FROM THE VIDEO. I WILL BE JUST AS GLAD TO SHOW YOU THE VIDEO OF THIS GUY WALKING THROUGH THERE. WE PRINTED THESE UP DURING THE LUNCH HOUR AND TOOK THESE OFF THE VIDEO SO I COULD SHOW COUNSEL BEFORE I WHIPPED OUT THE VIDEO, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS PART OF HAVE VIDEO. THEY GO THROUGH ALL THE TROUBLE TRYING TO SHOW IT. JUDGE, THEY THINK THEY ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO TRY THIS CASE ON THEIR THEORY WHEN THEY KNOW THESE GUYS WERE WALKING THROUGH. THIS IS ON THE 13TH. AFTER THAT THEY WASHED DOWN THE SCENE. TEN HOURS TO CALL THE CORONER. AND JUDGE, IT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE FOR HER TO GET UP THERE AND GO TEN TIMES. TALKING ABOUT DISINGENUOUS. THAT THERE IS NOBODY WALKING THROUGH THIS AREA. TIPPY-TOEING AROUND AND THERE IS A PICTURE OF THIS GUY WALKING RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THE SCENE.

THE COURT: UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW ME, GIVE ME A GOOD FAITH OFFER OF PROOF THAT YOU CAN SHOW ME DATE AND TIME WHEN THAT WAS DONE --

MR. COCHRAN: PICTURE WAS TAKEN?

THE COURT: YEAH.

MR. COCHRAN: IF YOU GIVE ME A FEW MINUTES, I WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT. YEAH. I WILL RUN BACK THROUGH THE VIDEO, BECAUSE THIS WAS TAKEN FROM THE VIDEO. OR I WILL JUST ASK YOU TO LET ME SHOW THE VIDEO AND I WILL SHOW THE VIDEO AT THIS POINT.

MS. CLARK: DOES IT SHOW WHAT TIME IT WAS TAKEN?

MR. COCHRAN: NO, IT DOESN'T SHOW WHAT TIME IT WAS TAKEN.

MS. CLARK: THAT IS THE WHOLE ISSUE. THE TIME MAKES IT IRRELEVANT.

MR. COCHRAN: ARE WE GOING TO FOOL SOMEBODY HERE THAT IT WAS NOT TAKEN FROM THEIR SCENE? I HAVE FOUND IN THE SAME VIDEO -- IF YOU SAW THE VIDEO IT WOULD HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND. THEY ARE JUST BEGINNING TO MARK THINGS ON THE 13TH. THIS IS THE CRIME SCENE.

MS. CLARK: AND THE PROBLEM WITH THAT VIDEO, IT WAS CUT THIRTEEN OR FOURTEEN TIMES, AS THE COURT COULD SEE, AND THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE FRAUD WE ARE GOING TO PERPETRATE ON THE JURY. WE ARE GOING TO SHOW THEM PICTURES FROM A TIME WE DON'T EVEN KNOW AFTER EVERYTHING HAS BEEN PRESERVED AND COLLECTED AND TRY TO SHOWN THE SCENE WAS CONTAMINATED WHEN IN FACT THIS WAS PRESERVED AND COLLECTED BEFORE THE --

THE COURT: I TAKE IT THIS IS A 352 OBJECTION?

MS. CLARK: THAT'S RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: I WANT TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THE ENTIRE VIDEO TO THE JURY AT THIS POINT. THIS IS CROSS-EXAMINATION.

MS. CLARK: SOME FOUNDATION, THOUGH, AND COUNSEL HAS NONE AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE A COPY OF THAT VIDEO.

THE COURT: OKAY. LET'S --

MR. COCHRAN: WE PROVIDED THAT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO ASK THE JURORS TO STEP IN SO THAT WE CAN SEE THIS VIDEO.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS THE SAME VIDEO, YOUR HONOR, THE ONE WE DIDN'T HAVE FOUNDATION FOR BEFORE.

THE COURT: MAYBE WE DO.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THERE IS AN EVIDENTIARY ISSUE I NEED TO RESOLVE AND I'M GOING TO NEED TO WATCH A VIDEOTAPE OUT OF YOUR PRESENCE. OBVIOUSLY ALL OF THE GIZMOS ARE HERE. SO WHY DON'T YOU STEP BACK INTO THE JURY ROOM AND HOPEFULLY THIS WILL JUST TAKE A FEW MOMENTS.

(AT 2:45 P.M. THE JURY WAS EXCUSED AND THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THEIR PRESENCE:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED.

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY AT THIS POINT -- THE VIDEO IS ON A LASER DISK, YOUR HONOR. WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY DEALT WITH THIS BEFORE. COUNSEL HAVE SEEN IT. I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW IT TO THE COURT AGAIN AT THIS POINT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. AT THIS POINT YOUR PURPOSE OF SHOWING THE VIDEOTAPE IS TO ASK OFFICER RISKE IF HE RECOGNIZES THE OFFICERS?

MR. COCHRAN: ANY OF THE OFFICERS THEREON, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: I THINK PERHAPS HE SHOULD STEP OUT WHILE WE ARE DOING THIS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OFFICER RISKE, WHY DON'T YOU STEP OUTSIDE AND DON'T TALK TO ANYBODY WHILE YOU ARE OUT THERE.

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALSO, IF THERE IS A T.V. MONITOR OUT THERE, DON'T WATCH THE MONITOR.

(OFFICER RISKE EXITS THE COURTROOM.)

MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, THERE IS THE ADDITIONAL ISSUE OF THE DISCOVERY OF THIS VIDEO. WE HAVE NEVER BEEN PROVIDED A COPY OF THIS VIDEO.

THE COURT: LET'S SEE IT FIRST. YOU MAY NOT HAVE AN OBJECTION TO IT ONCE YOU HAVE SEEN IT.

MR. COCHRAN: THEY HAVE SEEN IT BEFORE.

THE COURT: HOW LONG IS THIS EXCERPT?

MR. COCHRAN: NOT VERY LONG. WE ALL SAT HERE BEFORE AND WATCHED THIS.

THE COURT: NOT VERY LONG DOESN'T TELL ME VERY MUCH.

MR. COCHRAN: SIX, SEVEN MINUTES.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS THE SAME VIDEOTAPE THEY TRIED TO DO BEFORE WITH THE SAME PROBLEM.

THE COURT: I DON'T KNOW THAT YET.

MS. CLARK: OKAY.

(AT 2:53 P.M. A VIDEOTAPE WAS PLAYED.)

MR. COCHRAN: THAT WAS DETECTIVE LANGE, YOUR HONOR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: CORONER, VANNATTER, YOUR HONOR, PHILLIPS, ROGERS.

MR. COCHRAN: THOSE LAST THREE ARE IN SEQUENCE, YOUR HONOR. WILL YOU DO THOSE AGAIN.

(THE VIDEOTAPE WAS REPLAYED.)

MS. CLARK: CAN I ASK DEFENSE TO RUN THOSE LAST THREE AGAIN.

(THE VIDEOTAPE WAS REPLAYED.)

MS. CLARK: BACK UP TO THE LAST ONE.

(THE VIDEOTAPE WAS REPLAYED.)

MS. CLARK: NEXT FRAME AGAIN, PLEASE.

(THE VIDEOTAPE WAS REPLAYED.)

MS. CLARK: THAT IS NOT EVEN THE SAME PERSON.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I BE HEARD, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DOES THAT COMPLETE THE --

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, IN THIS SUPPOSEDLY SEARCH FOR TRUTH COUNSEL MAKES A GREAT -- GOES TO PAINS OVER AND OVER AGAIN TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS CRIME SCENE IS PROTECTED. WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE, YOUR HONOR, IN ONE OF THESE PHOTOGRAPHS THERE ARE NINE OR TEN PEOPLE IN THIS LITTLE TINY AREA, YOUR HONOR, THAT THEY GOT IN THERE. WE CAN IDENTIFY A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE FROM THE CORONER'S OFFICE. WE KNOW WHAT TIME THEY GOT THERE, SHORTLY AFTER EIGHT O'CLOCK OR EIGHT O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING ON THE 13TH. WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO SHOW HERE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD LIKE TO HAVE EVERYTHING THEIR WAY WHERE THEY COULD SHOW THAT EVERYBODY WALKED AROUND AND DID ALL THESE THINGS, BUT THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH. AND WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO MISLEAD THE JURY? AND THE FACTS ARE WE WILL BE ABLE TO ESTABLISH IT. AND I SHOULD BE ABLE TO ASK THIS OFFICER WHETHER OR NOT HE REPRESENTS -- WHETHER OR NOT HE RECOGNIZES LANGE, WHETHER OR NOT HE RECOGNIZES VANNATTER, WHETHER OR NOT HE RECOGNIZES ROGERS AND ANY NUMBER OF OTHER OFFICERS THAT HE MAY RECOGNIZE WHO WERE WALKING THROUGH THAT SCENE IN THIS PARTICULAR AREA. AND WE KNOW THAT THE BODIES ARE NOT MOVED UNTIL THE CORONER GETS THERE AND THEY ARE THERE AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, SO I THINK THE VIDEO IS VERY HELPFUL. WITH REGARD TO THE OFFICER, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THESE SEEM TO BE SEQUENTIAL OF A PERSON WALKING RIGHT IN THE CRIME SCENE, AND I THINK WE WILL BE ABLE TO ESTABLISH THAT AT SOME POINT THEY HOSE THIS AREA DOWN WHEN THEY DIDN'T NEED IT ANY MORE AND THIS OFFICER IS WALKING RIGHT THROUGH THERE AND IT IS JUST AS THOUGH THE DETECTIVES ARE WALKING THROUGH THERE. THERE MAY BE A SHEET OR WHATEVER DOWN, BUT YOU CAN SEE ON SOME OF THESE VIDEOS, JUDGE, SOME PEOPLE ARE WEARING GLOVES, SOME PEOPLE AREN'T. SOME PEOPLE HAVE BOOTIES ON THEIR SHOES, SOME PEOPLE DON'T. BUT THERE ARE EIGHT OR NINE PEOPLE CROWDED IN THIS LITTLE AREA AND THAT IS QUITE CONTRARY TO WHAT MISS CLARK HAS TRIED TO TELL THIS JURY AND THAT IS NOT THE TRUTH.

THE COURT: MISS CLARK.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: NO, THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS THAT THIS CRIME SCENE WAS HANDLED APPROPRIATELY. MR. COCHRAN WOULD LIKE TO SHOW PHOTOGRAPHS OUT OF CONTEXT, OUT OF TIME AND OUT OF SEQUENCE, AND IN ONE CASE EVEN TRYING TO MISREPRESENT THAT THREE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE OF ONE PERSON. AND THE MORE CLOSELY WE LOOKED, THE MORE WE REALIZE IT IS NOT EVEN THE SAME PERSON IN THOSE THREE PHOTOGRAPHS. TRYING TO MISLEAD AND CONFUSE THIS JURY. AND ALL WE ARE ASKING FOR IS FAIRNESS HERE. WE WANT THE JURY TO GET THE TRUTH AND WE WANT IT TO BE UNTWISTED AND UNDISTORTED BY COUNSEL IN AN EFFORT TO TWIST THEIR MINDS. WE WANT THEM TO GET THE TRUTH. IF THE JURY CONCLUDES THAT THE CRIME SCENE WAS NOT PROPERLY HANDLED, SO BE IT, BUT AT LEAST I WANT THEM TO MAKE THAT CONCLUSION BASED ON WHAT THE TRUTH IS, WHAT THE EVIDENCE REALLY IS, NOT JUST SOME DISTORTED TWISTED VERSION OF IT THAT COUNSEL WANT TO GIVE THEM. TAKING THESE PHOTOGRAPHS OUT OF TIME CONTEXT IS A REAL PROBLEM. AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO RELEASE EVERY CRIME SCENE AND NOT JUST THIS ONE. IT DOESN'T GET PRESERVED FOR ALL ETERNITY. WHAT HAPPENS, AS THE COURT IS VERY FAMILIAR WITH, IS THAT THEY GO IN, THEY TAKE THE PHOTOGRAPHS, THEY COLLECT THE EVIDENCE AND AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO CLEAN UP THE PLACE AND MOVE ON. NOW, THIS CRIME SCENE WAS WASHED DOWN, BUT NOT UNTIL A FEW DAYS AFTERWARDS, AS FAR AS I RECALL, AND IT WAS WASHED DOWN BY THE FAMILY. PRIOR TO THAT TIME, THOUGH, ON THE 13TH, EVERYTHING WAS COLLECTED AND PRESERVED AT SOME POINT, AFTER WHICH PEOPLE DID -- PEOPLE WERE, I'M SURE, WALKING ON IT, BUT AT THAT POINT IT NO LONGER MATTERED. THE EVIDENCE WAS COLLECTED AND IT WAS PHOTOGRAPHED AND IT WAS DIAGRAMED. EVERYTHING WAS DONE. AND WHEN THAT IS ALL DONE, THEN YES, PEOPLE WILL WALK THROUGH A CRIME SCENE. EVENTUALLY THEY HAVE TO, OTHERWISE WE ARE GOING TO HAVE SECTIONS OF THIS ENTIRE CITY WHERE NO ONE CAN WALK FOR ALL ETERNITY BECAUSE IT WAS A CRIME SCENE. MY GOD, MOST DOWNTOWN OF L.A. WOULD BE UNTOUCHABLE. SO THERE IS JUST NO WAY THAT WE COULD POSSIBLY USE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS FOR ANY PROBATIVE VALUE UNLESS WE ESTABLISH WHAT THE TIME WAS. IF THE TIME IS DEMONSTRATED TO BE AT A POINT IN TIME WHEN THIS OFFICER INDICATES IT WAS CAREFULLY CORDONED OFF AND UNIFORMS WERE ALLOWED IN, WHEN ORDINARILY VERY, VERY FEW ARE, THEN THAT IS ONE THING, OR AT A TIME WHEN HE IS SAYING WE ARE ALL WALKING UP THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PATHWAY IN THE SHRUBBERY TO AVOID THE BLOOD IN THE WALKWAY AND THE TIME SHOWS THAT THIS OCCURRED WHEN HE CLAIMS IT COULDN'T HAVE, THAT IS IMPEACHING. BUT AT THIS POINT IT IS NOT IMPEACHING; IT IS DISTORTING, CONFUSING AND MISLEADING AND THAT IS ALL IT IS. AND UNDER 352 THE COURT HAS AN OBLIGATION TO MAKE SURE THE JURY IS NOT SO MISLED. I SHOULD ALSO NOTE THAT THE COUNTER THAT THE COURT SEES ON THE TAPE THAT THEY PLAYED FOR YOU IS NOT EVEN THE COUNTER FROM THE VIDEO. IT IS A COUNTER FROM THE LASER DISK THAT COUNSEL HAS WHICH IS IRRELEVANT TO EVERYTHING IN THIS CASE. COUNSEL KNOWS THE REAL TIME. HE KNOWS IT, YOUR HONOR, AND HE IS DELIBERATELY HIDING IT FROM THIS COURT AND HE WANTS TO HIDE IT FROM THIS JURY AS WELL SO THAT THEY WILL BE MISLEAD AND CONFUSED, AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM. I DON'T CARE IF THE JURY SEES THIS VIDEOTAPE. IF IT IS PUT IN THE CORRECT TIME FRAME, THEN THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO SEE IT. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS IS A CUT UP, CHOPPED UP VERSION OF SOMETHING COUNSEL HAS CONVENIENTLY DELETED THAT DOESN'T SUPPORT HIS ARGUMENT AND HAS DELETED THE TIME THAT WOULD GIVE ANY PROBATIVE VALUE OR EVEN ANY IMPEACHING VALUE. SO AT THIS POINT WE HAVE NO INSIGHT. THERE IS NO PROBATIVE VALUE. WE HAVE ONLY THE PREJUDICIAL VALUE OF MISLEADING AND CONFUSING THIS JURY. AND UNLESS COUNSEL CAN ESTABLISH THE ACCURATE TIME WHEN THESE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN, WHEN THE VIDEO CLIPS WERE TAKEN, IT SHOULD NEVER BE SHOWN TO THE JURY THIS WAY.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAY I --

MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: SURE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEYS.)

MS. CLARK: TWO MORE ISSUES, YOUR HONOR. WE HAVE NEVER BEEN GIVEN A COPY OF THIS TAPE, ALTHOUGH COUNSEL PROMISED IT TO US, WHAT, A MONTH AGO. WE SHOULD HAVE HAD IT AND WE SHOULD HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW IT. AND THIS IS ANOTHER DISCOVERY ISSUE. THEY HAVE HAD IT OBVIOUSLY FOR QUITE SOMETIME. THE COURT ORDERED THEM TO GIVE IT TO US AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE IT. WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF EDITING MACHINE THEY USED.

THE COURT: OH, WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW THAT.

MS. CLARK: WE NEED TO KNOW IT. THE COURT MAY NOT BE INTERESTED, BUT THE PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW.

THE COURT: NO, WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW THAT.

MS. CLARK: BUT IN ANY CASE, YOUR HONOR, IT IS ALSO THIS OFFICER'S TESTIMONY THAT HE LEFT AT 7:15, AND FROM THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, THE NATURE OF THE SUNLIGHT SHOWN WE CAN SEE IT IS MUCH LATER THAN THAT, SO WE NEED THE REAL TIME. WE NEED THE REAL TIME OR ELSE IT IS NOT EVEN IMPEACHING, IT IS ONLY CONFUSING AND MISLEADING AND VERY PREJUDICIAL. THERE IS NO PROBATIVE VALUE.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I RESPOND, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: BRIEFLY.

MR. COCHRAN: COUNSEL TALKS ALL THIS STUFF ABOUT WANTING THE TRUTH AND THEY ARE ALWAYS WANTING TO HIDE THE TRUTH.

THE COURT: KNOWING THE COURT REPORTER HAS NOW FOUR MINUTES LEFT OF PAPER.

MR. COCHRAN: THEY ALWAYS WANT TO HIDE THE TRUTH, YOUR HONOR. WE HAVE MR. JOHN WHITNEY WHO HELPED TO PUT THIS ON THE LASER DISK AND THAT IS A LASER DISK AND COUNSEL IS MORE THAN AWARE OF IT. WE WILL GIVE THEM A COPY OF OUR LASER DISK, YOUR HONOR, IF THEY WANT TO. THIS IS PREPOSTEROUS FOR HER TO STAND UP AND MAKE THIS ARGUMENT TODAY. RIGHT THINKING PEOPLE IN THIS COURTROOM AND OUTSIDE -- YOU CAN SEE THESE PEOPLE STEPPING OVER THE BODY, YOUR HONOR. LANGE IS STEPPING OVER THE BODIES. THE BODIES HAVE NOT BEEN MOVED. AND SHE HAS THE TEMERITY, THE UNMITIGATED GALL TO TALK ABOUT TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS CRIME SCENE. THE PEOPLE ARE GATHERED AROUND THERE AND THEY WANT TO GIVE YOU A PICTURE TODAY THEY TIPTOED AROUND AND NEVER TOUCHED ANYTHING. THAT IS PREPOSTEROUS, YOUR HONOR. ULTIMATELY THEY CAN HAVE ALL THE THEORIES THEY WANT, BUT AS I SAID BEFORE, THEY ARE GOING TO BE KILLED BY THE FACTS. AND I WOULD LIKE, YOUR HONOR, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, TO ADDRESS MR. WHITNEY ABOUT THIS. THIS ISN'T ANYTHING WE MADE UP. THESE ARE THE SAME VIDEOS THEY HAVE SEEN NOW FOR THE LAST TWO OR THREE WEEKS. THEY ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO OUR VIDEO, YOUR HONOR. WE CAN LAY A FOUNDATION FOR THIS. WE CAN IDENTIFY THESE PEOPLE IN THAT VIDEO AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO SHOW THAT TO THIS JURY. I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT CROSS-EXAMINATION IS. WE WILL BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY DID NOT HANDLE THIS SCENE APPROPRIATELY, YOUR HONOR. WE CAN CLOCK IN THE VIDEO -- WORRY ABOUT CLOCKING IN THE NUMBER. MR. WHITNEY, WOULD YOU ADDRESS THE COURT. HE HAS KNOWLEDGE, IF THE COURT WOULD ALLOW ME TO ASK HIM ABOUT THE TIMING ON THE VIDEO ALSO.

THE COURT: THE COUNTER THAT IS GOING ON ON THE LASER, THAT REALLY DOESN'T CONCERN ME.

MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. I KNOW WHAT COUNTERS ARE ON LASER DISCS. I MEAN, THAT IS NOT A MYSTERY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: MR. DOUGLAS ADVISED WE HAVE GIVEN THEM THE TAPES ALSO, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WE HAVE GIVEN THEM THE TAPES?

MR. DOUGLAS: YES, YOUR HONOR. WE GAVE THEM THE FIRST TAPE ON THE MONDAY IT WAS DISCUSSED. WE GAVE THEM THE SECOND TAPE LAST WEEK. I PUT IT ON THE RECORD.

MR. COCHRAN: HE DID.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. AT THIS TIME, AND I WANT TO EMPHASIZE AT THIS TIME, I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN THE OBJECTION UNDER 352 AND UNDER FOUNDATIONAL BASES FOR THESE REASONS, AND LISTEN CAREFULLY, COUNSEL: ONE, YOUR OFFER WAS THAT YOU WANTED THIS OFFICER TO LOOK AT SOME OF THESE ITEMS AND IDENTIFY WHO THESE POLICE OFFICERS WERE. THERE IS NO DISPUTE AS TO WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE. WE ALL KNOW WHO THEY ARE. IT IS NOT A DISPUTED ISSUE. SO TO WASTE THE COURT'S TIME TO LOOK AT A VIDEOTAPE AND SAY THIS IS DETECTIVE VANNATTER, THIS IS DETECTIVE LANGE, THAT IS A WASTE OF THE COURT'S TIME BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A FACT IN DISPUTE. THE ISSUE IS WHO HAD ACCESS TO THE CRIME SCENE AND WHEN. WITHOUT ESTABLISHING WHEN THOSE VIDEOTAPES WERE TAKEN, IT IS MISLEADING TO THE JURY, UNLESS YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY WHO CAN SAY IN RELATIVELY ABSOLUTE TERMS WHEN THOSE VIDEOTAPES WERE TAKEN.

THIS WITNESS CANNOT TESTIFY TO THOSE THINGS BECAUSE HE TESTIFIED HE WAS IN A CAR IN THE BACK ALLEY UNTIL HE LEFT THE CRIME SCENE. THAT WAS HIS ASSIGNMENT. THERE ARE CERTAINLY OTHER WITNESSES WHO WERE AT THE FRONT WHO CAN TESTIFY TO THESE THINGS. THIS IS THE WRONG WITNESS AND THIS IS THE WRONG TIME TO BRING UP THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

MR. COCHRAN: WE STARTED OUT, YOUR HONOR, WITH US TALKING ABOUT THE UNIFORMED OFFICER, AND MAY I JUST ADDRESS THAT FOR A MOMENT? TALK ABOUT MISLEADING. WHERE WE HAVE THEM GOING TO ALL THIS TROUBLE TO SHOW ALL THESE THINGS, I THINK I SHOULD BE PERMITTED TO ASK HIM IF YOU RECOGNIZE THAT OFFICER WALKING RIGHT THROUGH THE SCENE.

THE COURT: THAT ONE PHOTOGRAPH? THAT ONE PHOTOGRAPH?

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

THE COURT: THAT WE HAVE OF THE BACK OF THE OFFICER?

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

THE COURT: THAT ONE PHOTOGRAPH I'M GOING TO ALLOW YOU TO ASK HIM IF HE RECOGNIZES THE PERSON.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE OTHER STUFF -- THAT IS A FACTUAL DISPUTE AS TO WHO THIS IS. WE MAY NEVER RESOLVE IT.

MR. COCHRAN: I WANT TO ASK HIM AND THERE WILL BE LANGE AND VANNATTER.

THE COURT: DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE POINT I'M MAKING?

MR. COCHRAN: I HEARD YOU LOUDLY AND CLEARLY AND I AM READY TO PROCEED.

THE COURT: BUT THAT VIDEOTAPE IS NOT COMING IN UNLESS AND UNTIL SOMEBODY COMES IN AND SAYS I SHOT THAT VIDEOTAPE AND THIS IS THE DATE AND TIME WHEN I TOOK IT, BECAUSE THE TIMING IS CRITICAL HERE, BUT THIS IS NOT THE GUY TO ARGUE WITH IT ABOUT --

MR. COCHRAN: I AGREE.

THE COURT: -- OVER IT.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. MAY WE PROCEED, YOUR HONOR?

MS. CLARK: MAY I ASK, WITH RESPECT TO THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT COUNSEL IS GOING TO SHOW TO THE WITNESS, UNTIL WE ESTABLISH A TIME FRAME FOR THAT PICTURE, MAY I ASK THAT IT NOT BE SHOWN TO THE JURY?

MR. COCHRAN: YOU JUST RULED ON THAT.

THE COURT: NO. I'M GOING TO LET HIM SHOW THAT, BUT YOU CAN ON CROSS-EXAMINATION ASK HIM IS THERE ANY IDEA AND WE WILL TELL THE JURY, I'M SURE THROUGH YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION, THAT WE HAVE NO IDEA WHEN THAT IT WAS TAKEN. IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE NEXT DAY, IT COULD HAVE BEEN THREE DAYS LATER.

MS. CLARK: BUT EVEN IF HE CAN IDENTIFY THE OFFICER, HOW DOES THAT HELP TO TIME THE PICTURE?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, YOU HAVE RULED ON THIS. MAY WE PROCEED?

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: CAN WE HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE. CAN WE HAVE YOUR WITNESS BROUGHT BACK INTO THE COURTROOM SO WE CAN GET STARTED.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: OFFICER RISKE, WOULD YOU RESUME THE WITNESS STAND, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. BE SEATED. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THAT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. MR. COCHRAN, YOU MAY PROCEED.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW OFFICER RISKE A PHOTOGRAPH WHICH WE WERE GOING TO MARK I GUESS AS DEFENDANT'S NEXT IN ORDER, YOUR HONOR. IS THIS D-1 --

THE COURT: 1011.

MR. COCHRAN: D-1011.

(DEFT'S 1011 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, OFFICER RISKE, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT AS THE CRIME SCENE THERE AT BUNDY?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE UNIFORM ON THAT MAN WHO IS WALKING IN THE CRIME SCENE AREA?

A: IT LOOKS LIKE AN LAPD UNIFORM.

Q: AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE OR FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT ARE YOU ABLE TO RECOGNIZE WHO THAT PARTICULAR POLICE OFFICER IS?

A: NO.

Q: OF THE NAMES THAT YOU GAVE ME EARLIER, WERE THEY ALL MALE OFFICERS?

A: YES.

Q: AND OF THAT NUMBER ARE THERE ANY WHO ARE PARTICULARLY BUFF OR WHO WORK OUT REGULARLY?

MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH?

THE COURT: OVERRULED. NO, NOT AT THIS POINT.

THE WITNESS: YES.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: TELL US WHICH ONES WHO WERE IN UNIFORM OUT THERE THAT DAY WHO WORK OUT OR WHO WERE PARTICULARLY BUFF, THE MALES?

A: OFFICER MC GOWAN, BUT HE IS BLACK.

Q: IT IS PROBABLY NOT HIM.

THE COURT: ARE WE ACCOUNTING FOR BODILY ARMOR IN THIS ONE AS WELL?

MR. COCHRAN: I CAN ASK THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR?

THE WITNESS: OFFICER GLORIOSO, HE WORKS OUT.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: GLORIOSO?

A: YES, SIR. AS FAR AS I CAN RECALL, THAT IS ABOUT IT.

Q: WOULD IT BE HELPFUL TO SEE THE LIST?

A: I KNOW WHO WAS THERE. I JUST --

Q: YOU CAN'T TELL US THE NAME OF THIS PARTICULAR OFFICER?

A: NO, SIR.

Q: FROM THAT VANTAGE POINT?

A: NO.

Q: NOW --

THE COURT: THANK YOU, MR. HARRIS.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: THE DETECTIVES WERE DRESSED IN PLAIN CLOTHES, WERE THEY?

A: YES.

Q: IN FACT, ON ONE OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT YOU WERE ASKED TO LOOK AT THIS MORNING, WE HAVE A PHOTOGRAPH OF DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, AND DID YOU SEE HIM AND HOW HE WAS ABLE TO ACCESS THE AREA WHERE HE WAS LOOKING FOR THE KNIT CAP, WHERE HE WAS POINTING DOWN TOWARDS IT? DID YOU SEE HIM ACCESS THAT AREA?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: DID HE HAVE ANY BOOTIES OR ANYTHING ON HIS SHOES AT THE TIME HE WAS WALKING IN THAT AREA?

A: NO, HE DIDN'T.

Q: WERE ANY OF THE OFFICERS WEARING ANY BOOTIES ON THEIR SHOES AT ALL THAT MORNING?

A: NO.

Q: WERE ANY OF THE OFFICERS AT ALL USING GLOVES THAT MORNING WHEN THEY WERE OUT THERE?

A: NOT THAT I RECALL, NO.

Q: WHILE I AM LOOKING FOR A PHOTOGRAPH HERE, DESCRIBE FOR THE COURT AND JURY, IF YOU WOULD, SIR -- THE AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND IS A RATHER SMALL AREA, IS IT NOT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND IN THAT AREA THERE IS SOME SHRUBBERY?

A: YES.

Q: AND IT IS KIND OF AN AREA THAT IS TOTALLY ENCLOSED, IS IT NOT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: CAN YOU GIVE US THE DIMENSIONS OF THAT AREA WHERE HIS BODY WAS FOUND?

A: I WOULD ESTIMATE 6-BY-6, 10-BY-6. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: 10-BY-6?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: I AM ADVISED THAT THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT I AM LOOKING FOR, YOUR HONOR, IS NO. 55, WHICH PROBABLY THE SWITCH SHOULD BE CUT ON.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: BEFORE WE DO THAT, HOWEVER, LET ME GET BACK TO THIS AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND. WHAT WERE THE DIMENSIONS OF THAT AREA?

A: I WOULD GUESS BETWEEN 6-BY-6 AND 10-BY-6. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: AND IF TWO MEN IN THE APPROXIMATE AREA OF 5-10, 175, WERE IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA, THEY WOULD PRETTY MUCH COVER THAT AREA? IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT, IF THEY WERE STANDING UPRIGHT IN THAT AREA?

A: COVER IT?

Q: YES, OR THEY WOULD BE -- IT WOULD BE PRETTY CROWDED IN THERE, WOULD IT NOT?

A: POSSIBLY, YES.

Q: DID YOU STEP IN THAT AREA AT ALL?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: YOU WERE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE FENCE.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. MAY WE SEE --

THE COURT: 55.

MR. COCHRAN: -- PEOPLE'S 55 FOR IDENTIFICATION. CUT THE FEED, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, IF WE MAY HAVE A MOMENT, WE HAVE SOME SLIGHT CONFUSION AS TO WHICH.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)

MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE HAVE JUST A SECOND, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I WANT TO CUT THE FEED. I WANT TO PLACE THIS EXHIBIT -- I WILL HAVE TO GET THE NUMBER -- ON THE BOARD. MADAM CLERK, WHAT NUMBER IS THIS, DO YOU REMEMBER, 875 SOUTH BUNDY?

THE CLERK: 54.

THE COURT: P-54.

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL PLACE IT UP HERE.

Q: SO WITH REGARD TO P-54 FOR IDENTIFICATION, THE AREA THAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED AS 10-BY-6 OR SMALLER, WAS THE AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO IT IS BOUNDED BY A FENCE ON AT LEAST TWO SIDES; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND IS THERE A TREE OR SOMETHING TO THE LEFT OF WHERE THE BODY IS FOUND THERE?

A: I BELIEVE HE IS LEANING AGAINST A TREE, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. DO YOU REMEMBER HOW BIG THAT TREE WAS OR IS?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS PARTICULAR EXHIBIT HERE, WAS ANY OF THIS EVIDENCE MOVED WHILE YOU WERE THERE?

A: NO.

Q: THIS ENVELOPE OR ANY OF THESE ITEMS MOVED?

A: NO.

Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE IT WAS NOT MOVED, AS FAR AS YOU KNOW?

A: IT WAS NOT MOVED.

Q: IT WAS NOT MOVED AT ALL? ALL RIGHT. LET'S SEE P-55. KEEP THE FEED CUT, YOUR HONOR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YOUR HONOR, YOU SHOULD CUT THE FEED FOR THIS PHOTO.

MR. COCHRAN: YES.

Q: NOW, CAN YOU SEE THAT ON YOUR MONITOR?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: IS THAT DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND THE ITEMS THAT HE IS POINTING TOWARD, WERE THEY OBSCURED FROM VIEW UNDER THE -- UNDER THE PLANT MATERIAL, PLANT FOLIAGE AREA THAT WE SEE?

A: PARTIALLY, YES.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU FOR MAKING IT CLEARER.

Q: AND HE IS IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH STANDING OVER IN THE DIRT AREA TO HIS LEFT IS WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: WERE YOU STILL AT THE SCENE WHEN THIS PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN?

A: YES, I WAS.

Q: WAS THIS AFTER YOU HAD BEEN UP ON THE LANDING AND YOU SHOWED THE DETECTIVES THE VARIOUS ITEMS THAT YOU HAD SEEN EARLIER?

A: THIS IS AFTER THEY RETURNED FROM ROCKINGHAM.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU WERE STILL THERE?

A: YES.

Q: AND SO THIS WOULD BE WHAT TIME OF THE MORNING?

A: WHATEVER TIME THEY GOT BACK. I DON'T KNOW.

Q: ALL RIGHT.

A: 6 -- 6:45, I DON'T KNOW.

Q: 6:45?

A: I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AFTER THEY RETURNED FROM ROCKINGHAM; AT ANY RATE?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND THAT IS DETECTIVE FUHRMAN'S SHOE IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID YOU SEE THE PHOTOGRAPHER TAKE THIS PICTURE?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: AND WHERE WAS HE STANDING WHEN HE TOOK THE PICTURE, THE PHOTOGRAPHER?

A: I BELIEVE HE WAS STANDING ON THE STEPS UP TO THE LANDING, EITHER THAT OR ON THE LANDING ITSELF. I'M NOT QUITE SURE.

Q: ABOVE WHERE THE BODY WAS?

A: RIGHT.

Q: HE WAS SOMEWHERE BEHIND THIS PARTICULAR DETECTIVE AT THE TIME HE TOOK THIS PHOTOGRAPH?

A: RIGHT.

Q: IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE, THIS IS PEOPLE'S -- 875 SOUTH BUNDY -- PEOPLE'S 54, AND I GUESS THIS IS THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, ON THE LEFT IN THE MIDDLE, THERE IS A SHOE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH ALSO, SOME OFFICER'S SHOE THAT HAVE BEEN COVERED IN AND ABOUT THE SCENE THERE. WHOSE SHOE IS THAT, DO YOU RECOLLECT?

A: I HAVE NO IDEA.

Q: DID YOU SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH BEING TAKEN?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: THAT IS NOT YOUR SHOE, IS IT?

A: NO, IT ISN'T.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I HAVE JUST A SECOND MORE, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: CERTAINLY.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL FIND ONE ON THE BOARD.

THE COURT: I'M SORRY?

MR. COCHRAN: I WILL FIND ONE ON THE BOARD, THANK YOU.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: MADAM CLERK --

THE COURT: I THINK WE ARE ABOUT TO LOSE THE EASEL.

MR. COCHRAN: IT SEEMS THAT WAY, YOUR HONOR. I WILL HOLD IT. MADAM CLERK, THE EVIDENCE FOUND AT BUNDY?

MS. CLARK: NO, THAT HASN'T BEEN MARKED YET, I DON'T THINK.

MR. COCHRAN: WHAT WILL BE YOUR NEXT ONE?

THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO MARK THAT AS PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER?

MR. COCHRAN: YES. I THINK IT IS AN PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 56.

(PEO'S 56 FOR ID = POSTERBOARD W/PHOTOS)

MR. COCHRAN: PEOPLE'S 56. THIS IS PEOPLE'S 56, THE EVIDENCE FOUND AT BUNDY.

Q: I WANT YOU TO TAKE A LOOK, IF YOU WILL, AT THE ENVELOPE IN THESE TWO DIFFERENT PHOTOGRAPHS, PEOPLE'S 54 AND PEOPLE'S 56. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED 104 IN PEOPLE'S 556. DO YOU SEE THE ENVELOPE HERE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: DO YOU SEE WHERE THE GROUTING ON THE ENVELOPE -- THE ENVELOPE IS ACROSS THE GROUTING? DO YOU SEE THAT?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: LOOK AT PEOPLE'S 54, I BELIEVE. DO YOU SEE THE GROUTING HERE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: THE ENVELOPE IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE GROUTING?

A: YES.

Q: CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THAT ENVELOPE GOT MOVED?

A: NO.

Q: YOU CAN'T?

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: ALSO -- THERE IS ONE OTHER PHOTOGRAPH I NEED, YOUR HONOR, IF I MIGHT.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LET'S TAKE OUR RECESS THEN AT THIS POINT. ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A RECESS AT THIS POINT. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU. DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONG YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH THE PARTIES IN THE CASE, ALLOW ANYBODY TO TALK TO YOU. DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS OR HAVE ANY DELIBERATIONS ABOUT THE MATTER UNTIL IT IS GIVEN TO YOU. ALL RIGHT. WE ARE GOING TO RECONVENE AT A QUARTER OF 4:00. AND LET ME TELL YOU ONE OTHER THING BEFORE I LET YOU GO. AS I MENTIONED TO YOU, WE WERE CONTEMPLATING TAKING A FIELD TRIP OUT TO THE SCENE BOTH AT BUNDY AND ROCKINGHAM WITH A FEW SIDE STOPS IN BETWEEN. I PLAN ON DOING THAT, AS I MENTIONED TO YOU, IN THE NEXT WEEK OR TWO WEEKS. AND WHEN WE DO THAT, I'M GOING TO ENCOURAGE YOU TO DRESS COMFORTABLY SINCE IT WILL BE A RATHER LONG DAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU ARE THE BEST DRESSED JURY I HAVE SEEN IN A LONG TIME, SO LET'S SEE WHAT KIND OF CASUAL CLOTHES YOU HAVE. ALL RIGHT. LET'S TAKE -- RECONVENE AT A QUARTER TO 4:00. ALL RIGHT. AND OFFICER, YOU CAN STEP DOWN. YOU ARE ORDERED BACK IN A HALF HOUR.

THE WITNESS: YES, SIR.

(RECESS.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. THE DEFENDANT IS AGAIN PRESENT WITH HIS COUNSEL, PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED. THE WITNESS, MR. RISKE, IS ON THE STAND RIGHT NOW. THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT. MR. COCHRAN, YOU INDICATED YOU WANTED TO --

MR. COCHRAN: YES. WE CAN HANDLE IT AT THE END OF THE DAY. I'LL HAVE ENOUGH QUESTIONS TO GO FORWARD. I WON'T FINISH TODAY. LET'S USE THE REST OF OUR TIME, JUDGE.

THE COURT: OKAY. OFFICER RISKE, ARE YOU A P-2?

THE WITNESS: P-2.

THE COURT: P-2. PROBABLY THE LONGEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED. ALL RIGHT. WE'VE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL OF THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. OFFICER ROBERT RISKE IS STILL ON THE WITNESS STAND STILL UNDER OATH. AND, MR. COCHRAN, YOU MAY CONTINUE WITH YOUR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY, YOUR HONOR. MAY I APPROACH AGAIN?

THE COURT: YOU MAY.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: JUST WHEN WE BROKE, OFFICER RISKE, I ASKED YOU ABOUT THE CURRENT MOVEMENT OF THE ENVELOPE AND I NOW WANTED TO ASK YOU IF I COULD TO LOOK AT EXHIBIT 56, AND I WANT TO SHOW YOU ON EXHIBIT 56 TWO PHOTOGRAPHS SIDE BY SIDE.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THESE AREN'T OTHERWISE NUMBERED, BUT IF THEY WERE -- SHOULD I MAKE THEM A THROUGH WHATEVER?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: G AND H --

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: -- EXHIBIT 56.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I WANT YOU TO STEP DOWN IF YOU CAN AND I WANT YOU TO LOOK AT THE GLOVE UNDER THIS FOLIAGE HERE, THIS PLANT. CAN YOU SEE IT FROM THERE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: BY THE LASER POINTER?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: IF YOU'LL NOTICE, THE FINGERS OF THE GLOVE ARE POINTED TOWARD A TENNIS SHOE. DO YOU SEE THAT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND DO YOU NOTICE THAT THE "V" PART OF THE GLOVE IS ALMOST UP AGAINST THE WALKWAY THERE? DO YOU SEE THAT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: I'M INDICATING THAT.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, MAKE SURE EVERYBODY CAN SEE THAT.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: DO YOU SEE?

A: YES, SIR, I DO.

Q: OKAY. NOW, I WANT YOU NOW TO SHIFT YOUR ATTENTION OVER TO THIS NEXT EXHIBIT WHERE THERE'S A 102 MARKED HEREIN. CAN YOU SEE WHERE THE "V" PART OF THE GLOVE IS NOW POINTING IN ANOTHER DIRECTION?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND THAT THE FINGERS OF THE GLOVE ARE NOW POINTED IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION ALSO?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: THE GLOVE HAS BEEN MOVED? DO YOU SEE THAT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WERE YOU THERE WHEN THIS HAPPENED?

A: NO, I WASN'T.

Q: NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU TRIED TO DO AT THIS SCENE WAS TO PRESERVE IT SO THAT EVIDENCE WAS NOT MOVED; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: YES.

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN?

MR. COCHRAN: I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW IT TO THE OTHER JURORS.

THE COURT: I WAS ABOUT TO SUGGEST THAT.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. I HAVE SOME HELP. I HAVE SOME HELP FROM THESE TWO LAWYERS. APPRECIATE IT.

THE COURT: I THINK WE'RE JUST WORKING WITH ONE OF THESE RIGHT NOW. WELL, LET'S HAVE THE JURY DOWN AT THE SHORT END DOWN HERE TAKE A LOOK.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I HAVE OFFICER RISKE COME DOWN ALSO?

THE COURT: YOU MAY.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, OFFICER RISKE, FIRST OF ALL, WITH REGARD TO THE ENVELOPE WHICH WE TALKED ABOUT FIRST, REFERRING TO THE ENVELOPE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH HERE ON -- IS THAT 56 -- PEOPLE'S 56 FOR IDENTIFICATION, DO YOU SEE -- OFFICER RISKE, AS I POINTED OUT, DO YOU SEE THE GROUTING THERE AND THE ENVELOPE LOCATION?

A: YES, I DO.

Q: THE ENVELOPE IS BEYOND THE GROUTING?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: SEE THAT?

MR. COCHRAN: NOW, MR. DOUGLAS, CAN YOU PUT THAT DOWN JUST A SECOND? I WANT TO SHOW HIM THE OTHER ENVELOPE, THE OTHER PHOTOGRAPH.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WE NOW HAVE EXHIBITS 56 AND 54. WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DEMONSTRATE, DO YOU SEE THE GROUTING, OFFICER RISKE, ON THIS, WHERE THE GROUTING IS THERE AND THE ENVELOPE? DO YOU SEE THAT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: AND UP HERE, YOU SEE WHERE THE GROUTING IS AND THE ENVELOPE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: YOU SEE IT'S BEEN MOVED IN THOSE TWO PICTURES, RIGHT?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: OKAY. AND FROM 56 TO 54.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. LET'S MOVE NOW, GENTLEMEN, TO 56 WITH REGARD TO THE GLOVE, REFERRING TO THE GLOVE. FOR THE RECORD, MADAM REPORTER, WE'RE REFERRING NOW TO PEOPLE'S 56 FOR IDENTIFICATION.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, OFFICER RISKE, WITH REGARD TO THE GLOVE HERE IN WHAT IS NOW 56-G, 56-G, DO YOU SEE THE "V" PART OF THE GLOVE THERE --

A: YES, SIR, I DO.

Q: -- UP AGAINST THE WALKWAY THERE?

A: YES.

Q: SEE THE FINGERS OF THE GLOVE POINTED TOWARDS THE SHOES THERE, TENNIS SHOES?

A: YES.

Q: AND IF YOU LOOK TO THE RIGHT AT 56-H, SEE THE "V" PART OF THE GLOVE IS POINTING IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION, THE FINGERS ARE POINTING IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION?

A: YES.

Q: AND IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, 56-G -- 56-H, IS THERE ALSO A CAP SOMEWHERE IN THIS FOLIAGE?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: IT'S HIDDEN PRETTY MUCH BY THE FOILAGE HERE?

A: WOULD BE RIGHT HERE (INDICATING).

Q: NOW, SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR --

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, GENTLEMEN. YOU MAY RESUME YOUR SEAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: I BELIEVE THAT YOU TOLD US EARLIER THAT YOU WERE PRESENT WHEN DETECTIVE FUHRMAN RETURNED FROM ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: ALTHOUGH YOU COULDN'T TELL US THE EXACT TIME THAT HE GOT BACK, IT WAS YOUR BELIEF THAT HE HAD BEEN AWAY, HAD GONE TO ROCKINGHAM FOR ABOUT AN HOUR AND THAT HE RETURNED SOMEWHERE PERHAPS AFTER 6:30; IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THAT THE PHOTOGRAPH OF FUHRMAN WITH NOTHING ON HIS SHOES, WITH HIS SHOES IN THE AREA WHERE MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY WAS FOUND WAS TAKEN AFTER HE RETURNED BACK FROM ROCKINGHAM; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: RIGHT.

Q: AND IT'S CLEAR, IS IT NOT -- AND YOU RECALL, DO YOU NOT, THAT THE CORONER, THE L.A. COUNTY CORONER'S OFFICE HAD NOT ARRIVED AT THAT SCENE BY THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT AT 7:15; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: SO WHEN YOU LEFT THAT MORNING, BOTH OF THE BODIES WERE STILL IN THEIR SAME RELATIVE POSITIONS; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: IF YOU KNOW, SIR, HAD THE CORONER'S OFFICE BEEN CALLED AT ALL BY THE TIME THAT YOU LEFT?

A: I HAVE NO IDEA.

Q: YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE AT ALL OF THAT? BUT YOU KNOW THE BODIES WERE STILL THERE?

A: YES.

Q: SO THAT THE PICTURES WHICH I'VE JUST SHOWN YOU WHERE THE EVIDENCE APPARENTLY HAS BEEN MOVED, WHILE YOU WERE THERE AT LEAST, DID YOU SEE THE PHOTOGRAPHER TAKING ANY OF THESE PICTURES?

A: NO, I DIDN'T. I SAW HIM TAKE A PICTURE OF FUHRMAN. THAT'S IT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, THE PICTURE OF FUHRMAN WAS IN THIS SAME GENERAL AREA; WAS IT NOT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND SO AT THIS POINT, THE PHOTOGRAPHER WAS NO LONGER IN THE BACK; HE WAS NOW UP IN THE FRONT PART OF THE LOCATION, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DID HE CONTINUE TO SHOOT PICTURES AFTER THAT?

A: I SAW HIM TAKE A PICTURE OF MARK FUHRMAN. THAT'S THE ONLY ONE I SAW BESIDES THE REAR.

Q: DID YOU CONTINUE TO WATCH THE PHOTOGRAPHER AFTER THAT?

A: YES.

Q: AND DID YOU WATCH HIM UNTIL YOU LEFT OR DID YOU GO AND DO SOMETHING ELSE?

A: I STAYED IN THE FRONT, FRONT OF THE CRIME SCENE THE WHOLE TIME UNTIL I LEFT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, WHEN YOU WERE OUTSIDE THE CRIME SCENE AND OUTSIDE IN YOUR CAR WRITING YOUR REPORT, YOU WEREN'T WATCHING THE PHOTOGRAPHER AT THAT POINT, WERE YOU?

A: I WROTE MY REPORT IN THE REAR.

Q: IN THE REAR OF WHAT?

A: OF THE REAR OF -- IN THE ALLEY.

Q: THAT WAS THE REPORT THAT I READ TO YOU EARLIER?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: YOU WROTE THAT IN THE REAR AT 5:15?

A: I WROTE THAT IN THE REAR, YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU WERE BACK IN THE FRONT, YOU WEREN'T AT ALL TIMES WATCHING THE PHOTOGRAPHER, WERE YOU, AS HE TOOK THESE PICTURES?

A: NO.

Q: IN OTHER WORDS, HE WAS DOING HIS JOB, YOU WERE DOING YOUR JOB?

A: NO. HE WASN'T TAKING PHOTOS. HE DIDN'T TAKE THESE PICTURES WHEN I WAS THERE.

Q: OKAY. HE TOOK THESE PICTURES LATER?

A: I WOULD ASSUME. HE DIDN'T TAKE THEM WHEN I WAS THERE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, YOU SEE THE PICTURES NOW, RIGHT?

A: YEAH.

Q: YOU DIDN'T SEE THEM TAKEN WHEN YOU WERE THERE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: OKAY. NOW, YOU DESCRIBED FOR US THAT AT ONE POINT, SIR, AS PART OF YOUR DUTIES THERE, YOU SEARCHED IN AND AROUND THE ALLEYWAY FROM DOROTHY I THINK TO BUNDY TO GORHAM. RECALL THAT?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT WERE YOU SEARCHING FOR?

A: ANYTHING, ANY OTHER EVIDENCE WE MIGHT FIND.

Q: WERE YOU SEARCHING FOR BLOODY CLOTHES?

A: BLOODY CLOTHES, A BLOODY HANDPRINT ON A TRASH CAN, MAYBE EVIDENCE FROM A TRASH CAN, ADDITIONAL BLOOD DROPS.

Q: SEARCHING FOR KNIVES?

A: ANYTHING.

Q: WHEN YOU WERE SEARCHING, WERE YOU SEARCHING BY YOURSELF OR IN COMPANY WITH SOME OTHER OFFICER?

A: I WAS ALONE.

Q: AND WHO HAD DIRECTED YOU TO DO THIS SEARCH?

A: NOBODY.

Q: AND AS YOU SEARCHED, HOW LONG DID YOU SEARCH, SIR?

A: 10 MINUTES MAYBE.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DURING THE TIME THAT YOU SEARCHED, DID YOU EVER FIND ANY BLOODY CLOTHES OR KNIFE OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE AT ALL?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: WERE ANY OF THE OTHER OFFICERS WHO YOU PREVIOUSLY TOLD US WHO WERE AT THE SCENE THAT MORNING, WERE ANY OF THEM SEARCHING DO YOU RECALL?

A: I KNOW THEY WERE KNOCKING ON DOORS TALKING TO NEIGHBORS, BUT IF THEY WERE SEARCHING, I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW IF THEY WERE SEARCHING OR NOT?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU SAW A NUMBER OF OFFICERS FANNING OUT IN THE AREA. IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, WHEN THE FOUR DETECTIVES WENT TO -- LEFT BUNDY AND WENT TO ROCKINGHAM, DID THEY ALL GO TOGETHER?

A: I DIDN'T SEE THEM LEAVE. I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY WENT.

Q: ALL RIGHT. YOU KNEW AT SOME POINT THEY HAD LEFT, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW THEY LEFT, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHY ALL FOUR OF THEM WENT OVER THERE?

A: PARDON ME?

Q: DO YOU KNOW WHY ALL FOUR OF THEM WENT OVER THERE?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT ONCE VANNATTER AND LANGE WERE ASSIGNED TO THIS CASE, FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS WERE OFF THE CASE, RIGHT?

A: MEANING --

Q: THE DETECTIVES ON THE CASE.

A: THEY COULD BE ASSISTING DETECTIVES. THEY JUST WEREN'T IN CHARGE.

Q: LET ME ASK YOU THIS. DO YOU KNOW THAT FOR A FACT?

A: NO.

Q: ALL RIGHT. SO AS AN OFFICER OF SOME FOUR YEARS EXPERIENCE, HAD YOU EVER BEEN AT A SCENE WHERE ROBBERY-HOMICIDE DETECTIVES CAME AND TOOK OVER?

A: THAT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN. I'VE HANDLED CASES WHERE THE K CAR WAS WORKING FOR ROBBERY-HOMICIDE COMES OUT AND TAKES A REPORT.

Q: I'M TALKING ABOUT A CASE WHERE BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE CASE, ROBBERY-HOMICIDE DETECTIVES ARE ASSIGNED TO THE CASE AND DETECTIVES WHO ARE ON THE CASE ARE THEN TAKEN OFF. HAVE YOU HAD THAT SITUATION BEFORE?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHEN YOU TALKED TO DETECTIVE FUHRMAN, WHEN THE TWO OF YOU WERE TALKING AND YOU WERE ADVISED THAT ROBBERY-HOMICIDE WAS TAKING OVER THE CASE FROM PHILLIPS AND FUHRMAN -- REMEMBER THAT CONVERSATION?

A: YES.

Q: WAS FUHRMAN DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE HE WAS BEING RELIEVED BY VANNATTER AND LANGE?

A: HE DIDN'T TELL ME HE WAS DISAPPOINTED, NO.

Q: WHAT DID HE TELL YOU ABOUT THAT? DID HE TELL YOU THAT THEY WERE RELIEVING HIM?

A: YEAH. HE JUST SAID THAT ROBBERY-HOMICIDE WAS ON THE WAY TO TAKE OVER.

Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, IF ROBBERY-HOMICIDE ARRIVED THEN SOMETIME AFTER 4:00 O'CLOCK TO TAKE OVER, DO YOU KNOW WHY IT WAS THEN THAT ALL FOUR OF THE DETECTIVES THEN WENT OVER TO ROCKINGHAM?

A: NO.

Q: OKAY. AND IF ROBBERY-HOMICIDE HAD TAKEN OVER AT 4:00, DO YOU KNOW WHY IT WAS THAT FUHRMAN RETURNED BACK TO THE ADDRESS THERE AT BUNDY AFTER 6:30 AND WAS PARTICIPATING IN TAKING PICTURES? DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT WAS?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: WHEN FUHRMAN CAME BACK TO BUNDY, WAS HE ACCOMPANIED BY HIS PARTNER ALSO, DETECTIVE PHILLIPS?

A: YES.

Q: WAS HE THERE ALSO WHEN HE CAME BACK?

A: HE WAS IN THE STREET.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DID YOU GIVE HIM THE PHONE BACK AT THAT POINT?

A: YES, I DID.

Q: BY THE WAY, WITH REGARD TO YOUR TESTIMONY HERE, HAVE YOU WATCHED TELEVISION AT ALL IN CONNECTION WITH THIS CASE BEFORE TODAY?

A: WELL, YOU CAN'T REALLY HELP IT. IT'S ALWAYS ON.

Q: IT'S ALWAYS ON, ISN'T IT? WERE YOU TOLD THAT YOU WERE NOT SUPPOSED TO WATCH TELEVISION?

A: NO.

Q: THE D.A.'S DIDN'T TELL YOU THE JUDGE HAD ORDERED ALL WITNESSES NOT TO WATCH TELEVISION? THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU THAT?

A: NOT THAT I RECALL, NO.

Q: SO YOU'VE BEEN WATCHING THIS AND THEY HAVE NOT BEEN TELLING YOU THAT; AND DID YOU HEAR THE TESTIMONY OF PABLO FENJVES WITH REGARD TO THE COLOR OF THAT JEEP?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU SEE HIS TESTIMONY?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT JEEP IS DARK GREEN?

A: I BELIEVE IT WAS DARK GREEN.

Q: YOU NEVER HEARD ANYBODY WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING TELEVISION SAY THAT, HAVE YOU?

A: NO.

Q: WELL, WHAT PART OF THIS PROCEEDING HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING ON TELEVISION?

A: OF THIS TRIAL?

Q: YES, OF THIS TRIAL.

A: NONE OF THIS TRIAL. I SAW THE PRELIM.

Q: YOU HAVE NOT BEEN WATCHING SINCE THAT TIME?

A: NO.

Q: YOU JUST SAID IT'S ALWAYS ON TELEVISION. WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN?

A: JUST YOU TURN ON THE CHANNEL, IT'S ON. YOU CHANGE THE CHANNEL.

Q: WELL, IF YOU TURN -- WELL, IF YOU CHANGE THE CHANNEL, YOU TURN TO ANOTHER CHANNEL THAT HAS IT ON, DON'T YOU?

A: YEAH, BUT YOU JUST KEEP CHANGING THE CHANNEL.

Q: KEEP DOING WHAT?

A: YOU JUST KEEP CHANGING THE CHANNEL. THERE'S MORE THAN ONE CHANNEL, SIR.

Q: NO. I HOPE SO. BUT IF -- WHEN YOU TURN FROM ONE CHANNEL TO THE OTHER, WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN IN CONNECTION WITH THIS CASE AND THIS TRIAL BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T AWARE OF THE COURT'S ORDER? THAT'S THE QUESTION.

A: I DON'T RECALL SEEING ANYTHING ON THIS CASE, ON THE TRIAL. I SAW THE PRELIM.

Q: NONE OF THE TESTIMONY?

A: NO.

Q: NOW, WHEN THE FOUR DETECTIVES WENT OVER TO ROCKINGHAM, DO YOU KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE PHOTOGRAPHER WENT WITH THEM?

A: I DON'T KNOW.

Q: DID YOU SEE HIM DURING THE TIME WHEN YOU DIDN'T SEE THE FOUR DETECTIVES?

A: I BELIEVE HE WAS STILL AT BUNDY.

Q: YOU THINK HE WAS STILL AT BUNDY?

A: YES, SIR.

Q: WOULD IT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION TO LOOK AT THE LOG AT ALL?

A: I DIDN'T WRITE THE LOG AGAIN. SO --

Q: SO WOULD THAT REFRESH YOUR RECOLLECTION?

A: I DIDN'T WRITE THE LOG. I DON'T KNOW --

Q: ALL RIGHT. WELL, WHAT DID YOU SEE HIM DOING IF YOU BELIEVE HE WAS THERE DURING THE TIME THEY WERE AWAY?

A: STANDING BY A CAR TALKING TO SOMEBODY ELSE.

Q: AND IT'S YOUR BELIEF HE DID NOT GO TO ROCKINGHAM, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US?

A: I BELIEVE HE STAYED. I'M NOT SURE.

Q: YOU'RE NOT SURE?

A: WELL, I BELIEVE HE STAYED AT BUNDY.

Q: NOW, THIS BLOOD THAT YOU DESCRIBED TOWARD THE REAR GATE, THE REAR GATE OF THAT PROPERTY, COULD YOU SEE THAT WITH THE NAKED EYE OR DID YOU SEE THAT WITH THE USE OF A FLASHLIGHT?

A: FLASHLIGHT.

Q: AND DID YOU AND YOUR PARTNER BOTH SEE IT OR DID YOU SEE IT FIRST?

A: I SAW THE BLOOD ON THE INTERIOR. HE SAW THE BLOOD ON THE EXTERIOR.

Q: AND DID YOU TELL THE DETECTIVES LANGE AND VANNATTER ABOUT THIS?

A: I SHOWED IT TO FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY TOLD THEM OR NOT.

Q: YOU SHOWED IT TO FUHRMAN AND PHILLIPS?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: YOU DID NOT SHOW IT TO LANGE AND VANNATTER?

A: NO.

Q: AND YOU FELT THAT WAS IMPORTANT EVIDENCE; DID YOU NOT?

A: YES.

Q: WITH REGARD TO ANY OR EITHER OF THESE FENCES, DID YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CLOSE EITHER THE FRONT GATE WE'VE PREVIOUSLY SEEN OR THIS REAR GATE?

A: NO, I DIDN'T.

Q: SO YOU DON'T KNOW THE SOUND THAT THOSE GATES MIGHT MAKE WHEN THEY'RE CLOSED?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DIDN'T TEST THOSE AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: I MAY HAVE ASKED YOU THIS. WITH REGARD TO HOW THAT FRONT GATE IS OPENED, WHILE YOU WERE THERE, DID YOU OR ANY OF THE OFFICERS CONDUCT ANY KIND OF AN EXPERIMENT TO SEE HOW THAT WORKS?

A: NO.

Q: HOW YOU GET IN THE FRONT GATE?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DIDN'T DO THAT?

A: UH-UH.

Q: WHILE YOU WERE THERE, DID THE FINGERPRINT DUSTERS OR THE TECHNICIANS WHO DO THAT, DID THEY COME TO THE SCENE AT ALL?

A: NO.

Q: AND WHILE YOU WERE THERE, YOU CONTINUED AS BEST YOU COULD TO TRY AND PRESERVE THAT CRIME SCENE WITHOUT MOVING EVIDENCE, RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: OR STEPPING IN BLOOD; IS THAT RIGHT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: YOU DID NOT RETURN TO THAT SCENE AGAIN IN ANY OFFICIAL CAPACITY AFTER YOU LEFT AT 7:15 OR 7:20 ON THE MORNING OF JUNE 13, 1994; IS THAT CORRECT?

A: NOT WHILE I WAS STILL AT THE CRIME SCENE, NO.

Q: WERE YOU AWARE THAT AT SOME POINT, THAT CRIME SCENE WAS HOSED DOWN? DO YOU KNOW WHAT TIME AND WHAT DAY THAT WAS DONE?

A: NO.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW?

A: NO, I DON'T.

Q: YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT DATE IT WAS NO LONGER DESIGNATED A CRIME SCENE, DO YOU?

A: NO.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT, YOUR HONOR. PERHAPS THIS MIGHT BE AN APPROPRIATE PLACE. I'M NOT FINISHED.

THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO APPROACH, PLEASE?

MR. COCHRAN: SURE.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THERE'S ONE OTHER MATTER I NEED TO VIEW BEFORE I DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT IT'S GOING TO BE SHOWN IN COURT. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO STEP BACK INTO THE JURY ROOM. THIS SHOULD ONLY TAKE ABOUT FIVE OR 10 MINUTES. AND, OFFICER RISKE, LET ME ASK YOU TO STEP DOWN AND WAIT IN THE HALLWAY, PLEASE.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT ALL THE JURORS HAVE WITHDRAWN FROM THE COURTROOM. MR. COCHRAN, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SHOW US?

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I ASKED MR. HARRIS TO PUNCH THIS IN. DOING IT MANUALLY, IT'S DIFFICULT TO BRING OUT, BUT THERE'S SOME EXHIBITS I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THIS PARTICULAR OFFICER. SO CAN WE DEMONSTRATE THAT? MR. HARRIS.

(MR. HARRIS COMPLIES.)

MR. COCHRAN: 14, YOUR HONOR. THAT'S THE ENVELOPE. ALL THAT DEMONSTRATES IS THE MOVEMENT OF THE ENVELOPE. SHOW THE FIRST ONE AGAIN, MR. HARRIS.

(MR. HARRIS COMPLIES.)

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S NOT THE ONE.

(MR. HARRIS COMPLIES.)

MS. CLARK: THAT'S FINE. NO OBJECTION.

MR. COCHRAN: JUST KEEP ON LAUGHING.

MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. I WILL.

THE COURT: MR. HARRIS, WHAT'S THE NEXT FRAME AFTER THIS? IS IT POSSIBLE TO TAKE OUT THE STILL AND SEARCH WRITING ON THAT?

MR. HARRIS: THAT'S WHAT IT COMES UP, AND YOU HAVE TO DO IT MANUALLY UNFORTUNATELY. I CAN DO IT WHILE YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT.

MR. COCHRAN: CAN WE BACK UP, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: WHEN YOU PRINT THIS, DOES IT COME UP WITH THE -- I'M SORRY?

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE DEFENSE IS RUNNING OFF THEIR LASER DISC. THEIR LASER DISC IS NOT HOOKED UP TO THIS PARTICULAR PRINTER. SO I CAN NOT MAKE A PRINT COPY OF THIS PARTICULAR PHOTO.

MR. HARRIS: IT'S THE SAME SYSTEM.

MR. COCHRAN: CAN WE USE THEIR DISK, YOUR HONOR?

MS. CLARK: IT'S OUR DISK.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THE PROBLEM, IS I THINK -- THE ONLY WAY TO FIND OUT IS TO TRY.

MR. COCHRAN: BACK UP ONE BEFORE YOU DO THAT. I WANT TO SEE THE CAP AGAIN.

MR. HARRIS: THE CAP?

MR. COCHRAN: YEAH.

THE COURT: IS THERE A FOCUS ON THIS?

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THAT'S A PRINT FROM THE ELMO. 2, PLEASE. LET'S SEE IF I CAN GET A PHOTO PRINT OF THIS. YOUR HONOR, I'LL ATTEMPT TO PRINT, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT IT WILL SHOW THAT, THESE SEARCH CODES ON THEM BECAUSE IT'S A DIRECT VIDEO CAPTION.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. IS THIS A LASER DISK, DEFENSE LASER DISK, MR. HARRIS?

MR. HARRIS: YES, SIR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS COMPARED TO WHAT?

THE COURT: MR. FAIRTLOUGH, WHAT DOES IT SHOW?

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THIS PARTICULAR COPY SHOWS THE SEARCH, BUT WE THINK WE MIGHT HAVE FOUND A WAY TO PRINT IT WITHOUT THE SEARCH CODE IF POSSIBLE, WHICH WE WILL SEE IN A MOMENT.

MR. DARDEN: DO WE HAVE TO HAVE IT ON THE BIG SCREEN?

THE COURT: WELL, I'LL -- WE'RE TRYING TO VIEW THIS.

MS. CLARK: DO YOU NEED IT ON THE BIG SCREEN?

MR. DARDEN: IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT --

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THIS PRINT WAS PRINTED WITHOUT THE SEARCH CODE ACROSS IT. SO IT IS A CLEAR PRINT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THIS?

THE COURT: NO. I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT. ALL RIGHT. LET'S PROCEED THEN. I TAKE IT, MR. COCHRAN, YOU'RE GOING TO SHOW TWO DIFFERENT FRAMES, HOPEFULLY PRINT OUT, BUT WITHOUT THE SEARCH CODE SHOWING APPARENT MOVING OF THE ENVELOPE AND THE GLOVE, CORRECT?

MR. COCHRAN: YES. THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO. DO WE HAVE THOSE?

THE COURT: THOSE FOUR FRAMES.

MR. COCHRAN: I THINK WE GOT THE GLOVE.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: YES, WE DO HAVE THE GLOVE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. COCHRAN AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN, THAT'S HOW YOU PROPOSE TO PROCEED?

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, YOUR HONOR, I ONLY HAVE ONE. THERE IS -- I NEED A SECOND ONE OF THE GLOVE. LET ME TALK TO JOHN. MAY I?

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. COCHRAN AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, ARE YOU WAITING TO PRINT OUT FOUR OF THESE?

MR. COCHRAN: YES, I'M TRYING TO PRINT OUT FOUR. I HAVE ONE.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

MR. COCHRAN: CAN WE PRINT THIS OUT? CAN THIS ONE BE PRINTED OUT?

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: I BELIEVE THAT ONE HAS BEEN PRINTED.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. COCHRAN AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)

MR. COCHRAN: ALMOST DONE, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. COCHRAN, ARE WE READY TO PROCEED?

MR. COCHRAN: THERE ARE THREE, YOUR HONOR, THAT I HAVE THAT I WANT TO SHOW TO COUNSEL AND THEN SHOW THEM TO MY CLIENT. THEN I WILL BE IN A POSITION TO PROCEED. ONE OF THEM IS THE GLOVE. CAN I HAVE A SECOND WHILE HE'S TRYING TO GET THE LAST ONE, THE OTHER ONE WITH THE GLOVE?

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: COUNSEL, YOU'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AND SEE WHAT THE DEFENSE INTENDS ON PRODUCING. ANY COMMENT?

MS. CLARK: WE STILL HAVEN'T SEEN THE ONE THEY TEND TO PRODUCE ON THE GLOVE.

THE COURT: I THOUGHT WE --

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: THERE'S THREE. THERE'S APPARENTLY FOUR.

MR. COCHRAN: THERE'S ONE WITH THE GLOVE THAT'S BEEN MOVED. I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND THAT ONE. I THINK THAT ONE I HAVE.

(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD BETWEEN MR. COCHRAN AND MR. FAIRTLOUGH.)

MS. CLARK: MAY I BE HEARD NOW?

THE COURT: YES.

MS. CLARK: THIS IS THE SAME THING THAT MR. COCHRAN'S BEEN DOING THROUGHOUT THIS TRIAL. THIS IS ANOTHER DISTORTION. THIS IS ANOTHER DECEPTION BECAUSE WHAT HE IS TRYING TO SHOW THIS JURY IS THAT THERE WAS SOME NEFARIOUS, SINISTER AGENCY AT WORK HERE IN MOVING THE EVIDENCE. IN FACT, THAT IS TOTALLY FALSE. WHAT YOU CAN TELL IF YOU LOOK IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS WHERE HE CLAIMS EVIDENCE WAS MOVED IS THAT THERE WERE PHOTO NUMBER TAGS AND THE BODIES HAD BEEN REMOVED. AS MR. COCHRAN HAS ELICITED IN CROSS-EXAMINATION HIMSELF, IT IS A VERY TIGHT SPACE. AND WHEN MR. GOLDMAN'S BODY HAD TO BE MOVED, IT IS NATURAL THAT SOME OF THE EVIDENCE AROUND THE BODY WHICH WAS CLOSELY LOCATED TO THE BODY LIKE THE GLOVE, WHICH WE CAN TELL IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS WHERE -- MATTER OF FACT, CAN YOU PULL THAT UP, PLEASE? THE PHOTOGRAPH IN WHICH BEFORE MR. GOLDMAN HAS BEEN MOVED, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE TOE OF HIS BOOT IS RIGHT NEAR THE GLOVE. AS YOU CAN SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, WHERE THE NUMBER TAG APPEARS, THE BOOT IS NO LONGER THERE AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE BODIES HAVE BEEN REMOVED. IN THE MOVEMENT OF THE BODIES, OBVIOUSLY SOME EVIDENCE WAS DISTURBED AND THAT'S WHY THEY TAKE THE PHOTOGRAPHS BEFORE AND AFTER. AND MR. COCHRAN IS DELIBERATELY TRYING TO MISLEAD AND CONFUSE THIS JURY AND CAUSE PREJUDICE IN THE MINDS OF THIS JURY BY NOT LETTING THEM KNOW THAT WHAT HAS ACTUALLY TRANSPIRED HERE IS THAT THE BODIES WERE REMOVED IN BETWEEN THE TIME THE FIRST AND THE SECOND PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN.

MR. COCHRAN: MAY I BE HEARD, YOUR HONOR?

THE COURT: YES.

MR. COCHRAN: AS USUAL, COUNSEL HAS IT ALL WRONG. I ASKED THIS OFFICER, HER OFFICER WHETHER OR NOT YOU TAKE PAINS NOT TO HAVE EVIDENCE MOVED, AND THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED HIM. NOW, I ASKED HIM -- AND THEY CAN MAYBE EXPLAIN THAT ALL THEY WANT. THE EVIDENCE -- HE TOLD ME NO EVIDENCE WAS TO BE MOVED OR EVER MOVED. I'M NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS CRIME SCENE. THEY ARE, YOUR HONOR. IF WE HAVE EVIDENCE IN WHICH IN ONE PHOTOGRAPH, YOUR HONOR, THE GLOVE IS POINTING WITH THE "V" UP AGAINST THE WALKWAY AND THE OTHER'S BEEN TURNED AND MOVED, THE CAP HAS ALSO BEEN MOVED, THEY HAVEN'T SEEN ANYTHING YET. AND SHE'S GOING TO TRY TO EXPLAIN -- SHE THINKS SHE CAN EXPLAIN EVERYTHING AWAY. BY THE END OF THIS CASE, SHE WILL HAVE OFFERED SO MANY EXPLANATIONS, I THINK SHE WILL FINALLY EVEN BE TIRED. SO THAT THIS DOESN'T WORK, YOUR HONOR. SHE CANNOT EXPLAIN EVERYTHING, AND EVERYTHING IS A MISREPRESENTATION. ALL I'VE DONE IS SHOWN A PICTURE, YOUR HONOR, OF THEIR CRIME SCENE, AND THAT'S -- IF THEY CAN'T -- FIRST OF ALL, THEY WAIT -- THEY BREAK THE STATE LAW IN CALLING THE CORONER OUT 10 HOURS LATER.

THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. MR. COCHRAN, THAT'S KIND OF APPLES AND ORANGES. IT'S KIND OF A WASTE OF MY TIME, ESPECIALLY THIS LATE IN THE DAY.

MR. COCHRAN: LET ME JUST SAY THIS.

THE COURT: BUT LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. THIS PARTICULAR WITNESS IS A P-2 PATROL OFFICER WHO GETS CALLED TO THE SCENE. HE'S NOT THE DETECTIVE WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE CRIME SCENE. ALL THIS GUY DOES IS TAKE A LOOK SEE, DECIDES HE'S IN OVER HIS HEAD AND CALLS HIS SUPERVISOR, SECURES THE CRIME SCENE, HERE HE IS. THIS IS NOT THE GUY TO EXPLAIN HOW THE PHOTOGRAPHS WERE TAKEN OR WHAT'S WHERE, AND HE HAS ALREADY TESTIFIED WITH REGARDS TO THE PEOPLE'S EXHIBITS THAT IT APPEARS TO HIM THESE TWO ITEMS HAVE ALREADY BEEN MOVED.

MR. COCHRAN: THAT'S CORRECT.

THE COURT: SO WHY DO WE NEED TO GO INTO THIS WITH THIS OFFICER? YOU'VE ESTABLISHED THAT FACT.

MR. COCHRAN: I DID.

THE COURT: BUT FOR A P-2 TO TESTIFY TO ALL OF THIS STUFF --

MR. COCHRAN: FIRST OF ALL, YOUR HONOR, YOUR HONOR KNOWS HE'S A P-2. THIS LAWYER OVER HERE TRIED TO MAKE HIM SEEM LIKE HE WAS THE MOST CAREFUL OFFICER IN THE HISTORY OF THE LAPD, HOW HE TIPPED AROUND THIS SCENE. SHE WENT THROUGH IT 15 TIMES. SO --

THE COURT: NO. ONLY 10 TIMES.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, 10 TIMES, YOUR HONOR. WELL, I WAS OFF BY FIVE. 10 TIMES SHE WENT THROUGH IT, MAKING LIKE THE GREATEST P-2 EVER. THIS JURY DOESN'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A P-2 OR WHATEVER, YOUR HONOR. SHE CREATED THIS AURA AS SHE ALWAYS TRIES TO DO THAT, AND NOW I AM GOING TO SHOW THAT THE EVIDENCE WAS MOVED.

THE COURT: HERE'S THE PROBLEM. THIS GUY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TAKING THESE PHOTOGRAPHS, NOTHING TO DO WITH COLLECTING THE EVIDENCE AND NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CALLING THE CORONER, NOTHING TO DO WITH SETTING UP THE PHOTOGRAPHS. HE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING.

MR. COCHRAN: WELL, HE DID SEE THE ONE PHOTOGRAPH TAKEN WHERE FUHRMAN IS IN THERE. HE SAID HE WAS PRESENT.

THE COURT: HE WAS PRESENT FOR THAT, RIGHT.

MR. COCHRAN: HE WAS PRESENT FOR THAT AND HE SAID THAT THE OTHER THINGS HAD BEEN MOVED. AND THAT'S THE POINT THAT WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE. I DIDN'T MAKE THIS EVIDENCE. THIS EVIDENCE WAS MOVED. NOW, SHE MAY TRY TO JUSTIFY IT ALL WEEKEND, BUT --

THE COURT: WELL, MR. COCHRAN, YOU'VE ESTABLISHED THAT ALREADY WITH THIS WITNESS USING OTHER EXHIBITS. I THINK IT'S AN UNDUE USE OF THE COURT'S TIME WITH THIS WITNESS.

MR. COCHRAN: ALL RIGHT. FINE. I'LL MOVE ON. I HAVE SOME OTHER THINGS, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, WE HAVE TAKEN THE ENTIRE BALANCE OF THE COURT -- IT'S AMAZING HOW THESE THINGS SORT OF WRAP UP RIGHT ABOUT 4:30. ALL RIGHT. I AM GOING TO INVITE THE JURORS TO REJOIN US. I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN A 352 OBJECTION TO THOSE FOUR PHOTOGRAPHS AS TO THIS WITNESS. ALL RIGHT. LET'S HAVE THE JURORS. AND LET ME SEE COUNSEL WITHOUT THE REPORTER, PLEASE.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT WE'VE BEEN REJOINED BY ALL MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE HAD A MINOR TECHNICAL SNAFU, IF YOU KNOW WHAT A SNAFU IS. IT MEANS SITUATION NORMAL ALL FOULED UP. AT LEAST THAT'S THE COURTROOM VERSION OF THAT ACUMEN. AND WE WERE UNABLE TO PRODUCE CERTAIN DOCUMENTS FROM OUR MAGIC MACHINES HERE. IT TOOK US A LITTLE MORE TIME THAN I THOUGHT IT WOULD. SO WE HAVE GOTTEN TO THE END OF THE COURT DAY AND I'M GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS AT THIS TIME. PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T LET ANYBODY TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT, DON'T CONDUCT ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN FINALLY SUBMITTED TO YOU. ONE OTHER SCHEDULING NOTE. TOMORROW MORNING, I'M GOING TO BE IN SESSION WITH THE LAWYERS ONLY FOR SOME SCHEDULING MATTERS. I'M GOING TO BE IN SESSION ON ANOTHER CASE TOMORROW AFTERNOON. SO I WILL NOT SEE YOU TOMORROW. AND I'LL BE GIVING YOU NOTIFICATION AS TO OUR FIELD TRIP SHORTLY. SO YOU'LL HAVE THOSE DETAILS TO MAKE YOUR CLOTHING PLANS FOR THAT DAY. I'LL GIVE YOU PLENTY OF NOTICE. ALL RIGHT. HAVE A PLEASANT EVENING AND I'LL SEE YOU WHEN I SEE YOU, AND YOU'LL KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS LATER. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE IN RECESS. I AM SORRY. COUNSEL, WOULD YOU REMAIN, PLEASE, BECAUSE WE NEED TO PUT A FEW THINGS ON THE RECORD. AND, MR. RISKE, YOU ARE EXCUSED. YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN ON TUESDAY, VALENTINE'S DAY, 9:00 O'CLOCK. THANK YOU, SIR, AND DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY ELSE EXCEPT THE ATTORNEYS.

THE WITNESS: YES.

THE COURT: DON'T WATCH T.V.

(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)

THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. BE SEATED. MR. COCHRAN, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANTED TO SAY?

MR. COCHRAN: YES. I RISE FIRST OF ALL TO ASK THE COURT TO INSTRUCT THE PEOPLE TO TELL THEIR WITNESSES TO STOP WATCHING TELEVISION. I HAD UNDERSTOOD -- IN FACT, I HEARD YOU SPECIFICALLY ISSUE AN ORDER -- WE TALKED ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY -- FOR THE PEOPLE THAT I THOUGHT RESPONDED, THEY WERE GOING TO ATTACH TO THEIR SUBPOENAS YOUR ORDER. THE FIRST WITNESS COMES IN HERE -- AND I WASN'T SUSPICIOUS BECAUSE HE TALKED ABOUT ONLY TWO THINGS. HE SAID HE THINKS THAT JEEP IS DARK GREEN. THAT'S PABLO FENJVES AND THIS MAN. AND SO I ASK HIM HAD HE BEEN WATCHING TELEVISION. HE SAID YES. AND I KIND OF BACKED OFF. BUT HE OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE ORDER. THEY HAD NOT DONE THEIR JOB. I THINK THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE. YOU MADE IT VERY CLEAR TO US, AND WE PLAN TO DO IT WHEN WE SUBPOENA OUR WITNESSES. AND I THINK AGAIN, IT'S YOUR ORDER, AND I WOULD ASK YOUR HONOR TO ENFORCE THAT. THE OTHER THING HAS TO DO -- AND I RISE FOR MR. SHAPIRO IN THIS CONNECTION. YESTERDAY, MISS CLARK, AS SHE IS WANT TO DO, MADE SOME MORE SPECIOUS CHARGES. SHE ACCUSED MR. SHAPIRO OF HAVING -- QUOTE:

"I'VE BEEN INFORMED BY OUR MEDIA RELATIONS DIRECTOR THAT MR. SHAPIRO HAS BEEN TELLING REPORTERS THAT OUR FUTURE WITNESSES HAVE BEEN WATCHING TELEVISION." HOW PROPHETIC. NOW -- IT'S VERY PROPHETIC THE WAY IT TURNED OUT, WASN'T IT? HOWEVER, MR. SHAPIRO NEVER DID THAT. BUT HERE'S WHAT MARCIA CLARK HAD TO SAY ABOUT THAT:

"THAT IS FALSE AND IT IS UNFAIR AND IT IS THE KIND OF SMEAR CAMPAIGN TACTICS THAT WE OBJECT TO STRENUOUSLY." THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID YESTERDAY UNTIL HER WITNESS GETS ON THE STAND AND TELLS US HE'S WATCHING TELEVISION.

"WE HAVE REFRAINED FROM THAT SORT OF THING. WE WOULD ASK THE COURT TO ORDER MR. SHAPIRO NOT TO MAKE THESE FALSE REPRESENTATIONS TO THE PRESS FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENGAGING IN FURTHER SMEAR CAMPAIGN TACTICS.

"THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO, DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT?

"MR. SHAPIRO:" HE RESPONDED QUITE SUCCINCTLY, YOUR HONOR.

"YES. TOTAL LIE." AND HE GOES ON TO SAY:

"IT'S AN ABSOLUTE TOTAL LIE." HE THEN INVITED MISS CLARK AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MAKE ALL THESE CHARGES, TO BRING SOME VIDEOTAPE WHERE HE WAS SAYING THAT. SO FAR, THEY'VE NOT DONE IT. MR. SHAPIRO HAS ASKED ME TO ASK YOU TO HAVE THEM BRING THE VIDEOTAPE IF THEY HAVE THAT WHEN THEY MAKE THESE KINDS OF CHARGES. THERE'S THAT, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: MR. DARDEN.

MR. DARDEN: I CAN'T IMAGINE WHY MR. COCHRAN IS WASTING THE COURT'S TIME AND MY TIME BRINGING THIS ISSUE BEFORE THE COURT. WHATEVER WAS SAID ON THE RECORD AT SIDEBAR YESTERDAY, YOUR HONOR, IS BETWEEN THE -- YOU KNOW, THAT WAS MISS CLARK'S UNDERSTANDING. MR. SHAPIRO SAYS IT'S NOT TRUE. LET ME REFEREE THIS ONE FOR YOU, OKAY. WE APOLOGIZE, BOB.

MR. SHAPIRO: WE APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU.

MR. DARDEN: WE APOLOGIZE. AND AS FOR MR. COCHRAN, WE DON'T NEED YOU TO TELL US HOW TO DO OUR JOB. WE ATTACH TO EVERY SUBPOENA THE COURT'S DIRECTIONS, OKAY. SO IF THE FELT HAPPENED TO FALL OFF THIS OFFICER SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY, WE APOLOGIZE TO THE COURT FOR THAT. BUT THE COURT WILL RECALL THAT THE OFFICER SAID THAT HE SAW THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, AND THAT WAS WHAT, SIX MONTHS AGO? I DON'T THINK THE ORDER APPLIED TO OR WAS IN EFFECT SIX MONTHS AGO. BUT WE WILL BE CAREFUL TO MAKE SURE THE WITNESSES ARE AWARE OF THE COURT'S ORDER.

THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: WE'LL STAND IN RECESS.

MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, CAN WE APPROACH SO I CAN ASK ONE QUESTION?

THE COURT: SURE.

(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)

(AT 4:45 P.M., AN ADJOURNMENT WAS TAKEN UNTIL, TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 1995, 9:00 A.M.)

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, )
)
PLAINTIFF, )
)
) VS. ) NO. BA097211
)
ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, )
)
)
DEFENDANT. )

REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 9, 1995

VOLUME 85

PAGES 13996 THROUGH 14273, INCLUSIVE

APPEARANCES: (SEE PAGE 2)

JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR #4588
CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR #2378 OFFICIAL REPORTERS

APPEARANCES:

FOR THE PEOPLE: GIL GARCETTI, DISTRICT ATTORNEY
BY: MARCIA R. CLARK, WILLIAM W.
HODGMAN, CHRISTOPHER A. DARDEN,
CHERI A. LEWIS, ROCKNE P. HARMON,
GEORGE W. CLARKE, SCOTT M. GORDON
LYDIA C. BODIN, HANK M. GOLDBERG,
AND DARRELL S. MAVIS, DEPUTIES
18-000 CRIMINAL COURTS BUILDING
210 WEST TEMPLE STREET
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90012

FOR THE DEFENDANT: ROBERT L. SHAPIRO, ESQUIRE
SARA L. CAPLAN, ESQUIRE
2121 AVENUE OF THE STARS
19TH FLOOR
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90067

JOHNNIE L. COCHRAN, JR., ESQUIRE
BY: CARL E. DOUGLAS, ESQUIRE
SHAWN SNIDER CHAPMAN, ESQUIRE
4929 WILSHIRE BOULEVARD
SUITE 1010
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90010

GERALD F. UELMEN, ESQUIRE
ROBERT KARDASHIAN, ESQUIRE
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, ESQUIRE
F. LEE BAILEY, ESQUIRE
BARRY SCHECK, ESQUIRE
ROBERT D. BLASIER, ESQUIRE

I N D E X

INDEX FOR VOLUME 85 PAGES 13996 - 14273

-----------------------------------------------------

DAY DATE SESSION PAGE VOL.

THURSDAY FEBRUARY 9, 1995 A.M. 13755 85
P.M. 14133 85

LEGEND:

MS. CLARK - MC
MR. HODGMAN - H
MR. DARDEN D
MR. KAHN - K
MR. GOLDBERG - GB
MR. GORDON - G
MR. SHAPIRO - S
MR. COCHRAN - C
MR. DOUGLAS - CD
MR. BAILEY - B
MR. UELMEN - U
MR. SCHECK - BS
MR. NEUFELD - N

-----------------------------------------------------

CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES

PEOPLE'S
WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL.

RISKE, ROBERT 13999MC 14122C 85 (RESUMED) 14138C

-----------------------------------------------------

ALPHABETICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES

PEOPLE'S
WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS VOL.

RISKE, ROBERT 13999MC 14122C 85 (RESUMED) 14138C

EXHIBITS

PEOPLE'S FOR IN
EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE

PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.

43 - POSTERBOARD WITH 14019 85
PHOTOGRAPHS ENTITLED "VICTIMS FOUND AT BUNDY"

43-A - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14022 85
WALKWAY AT CRIME SCENE

43-B - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14022 85
WALKWAY AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE BODY OF VICTIM
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON

43-C - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14022 85
WALKWAY AT CRIME SCENE AND CLOSE-UP VIEW OF
THE BODY OF VICTIM NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON

43-D - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14022 85
WALKWAY AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE BODY OF VICTIM
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON

43-E - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14022 85
WALKWAY AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE BODY OF VICTIM
RONALD GOLDMAN

43-F - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14022 85
WALKWAY AT CRIME SCENE AND CLOSE-UP VIEW OF
VICTIM RONALD GOLDMAN

44 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14027 85
SHOE, BLOVE, KNIT CAP AND THE BODY OF RONALD
GOLDMAN

45 - POSTERBOARD WITH 14029 85
15 PHOTOGRAPHS OF ALLEGED SHOEPRINTS

45-A - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14029 85
ALLEGED SHOEPRINT

45-B - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14030 85
ALLEGED SHOEPRINT

45-C - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14031 85
ALLEGED SHOEPRINT

45-D - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14031 85
ALLEGED SHOEPRINT

EXHIBITS
(CONTINUED)

PEOPLE'S FOR IN
EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE

PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.

45-E - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14032 85
ALLEGED SHOEPRINT

45-F - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14032 85
ALLEGED SHOEPRINT

46 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14041 85
CRIME SCENE WITH YELLOW TAPE

47 - POSTERBOARD WITH 14044 85
NINE PHOTOGRAPHS

47-A - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
RONALD GOLDMAN

47-B - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
GATE AT CRIME SCENE

47-C - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
GATE AT CRIME SCENE

47-D - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
GATE AT CRIME SCENE WITH RED SUBSTANCE AND
THE NO. 108

47-E - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
GATE AT CRIME SCENE

47-F - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
LOWER PORTION OF GATE AT CRIME SCENE WITH RED
SUBSTANCE

47-G - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
LOWER PORTION OF GATE AT CRIME SCENE WITH RED
SUBSTANCE AND THE NO. 109

47-H - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
THE GROUNDS AT THE CRIME SCENE

47-I - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14044 85
GROUND AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE NO. 106

48 - POSTERBOARD WITH 14065 85
10 PHOTOGRAPHS ENTITLED "BLOOD TRAIL AT BUNDY"

EXHIBITS
(CONTINUED)

PEOPLE'S FOR IN
EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE

PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.

48-A - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
WALKWAY AT THE CRIME SCENE

48-B - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
RED SPOT WITH THE NO. 112

48-C - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
RED SPOT WITH THE NO. 113

48-D - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
STAIRWELL AT THE CRIME SCENE

48-E - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
RED SPOT WITH THE NO. 114

48-F - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
STAIRWELL AT THE CRIME SCENE WITH OPEN WROUGHT
IRON GATE

48-G - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
RED SPOT WITH THE NO. 115

48-H - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
WALKWAY AT THE CRIME SCENE WITH A MAN

48-I - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
RED SPOT WITH THE NO. 117

48-J - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
TRASH CANS WITH THE FRONT OF A VEHICLE

48-K - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14065 85
A DIME AND A NICKEL AND THE NO. 118

49 - PHOTOGRAPH OF THE 14082 85
CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY

50 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14083 85
BUNDY DRIVE

51 - PHOTOGRAPH OF THE 14085 85
CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY WITH TWO PEOPLE

52 - PHOTOGRAPH OF A 14099 85
HOUSE WITH A DARK VEHICLE IN THE DRIVEWAY

EXHIBITS
(CONTINUED)

PEOPLE'S FOR IN
EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE

PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.

53 - POSTERBOARD WITH 14101 85
SIX PHOTOGRAPHS ENTITLED "REAR TRAIL"

53-A - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14101 85
GATE AT CRIME SCENE

53-B - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14101 85
LOWER PORTION OF GATE AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE NOS. 115 AND 116

53-C - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14101 85
LOWER PORTION OF GATE AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE
NOS. 115 AND 116 AND WITH AN LAPD RULER

53-D - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14101 85
LOWER PORTION OF GATE AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE
NO. 116 AND AN LAPD RULER

53-E - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14101 85
GATE AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE NO. 117

53-F - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14101 85
GATE AT CRIME SCENE WITH THE NO. 117 AND AN
LAPD RULER

54 - POSTERBOARD 14105 85
ENTITLED "875 SOUTH BUNDY"

55 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14117 85
CRIME SCENE AND DETECTIVE FUHRMAN POINTING TO
GLOVE WITH THE BACK OF VICTIM NICOLE BROWN
SIMPSON

56 - POSTERBOARD 14235 85
ENTITLED "EVIDENCE FOUND AT BUNDY WITH 21
PHOTOGRAPHS

56-A - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
KEYS WITH THE LEG OF VICTIM RONALD GOLDMAN

56-B - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
KEYS WITH THE SHOE OF VICTIME RONALD GOLDMAN
56-C - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
KEYS WITH THE NO. 100

EXHIBITS
(CONTINUED)

PEOPLE'S FOR IN
EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE

PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.

56-D - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
PAGER WITH THE BODY OF VICTIM RONALD GOLDMAN

56-E - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
PAGER WITH THE NO. 101

56-F - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
PAGER SHOWING FLAGSTONES AND GATE

56-G - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
GLOVE AND SHOE OF VICTIM RONALD GOLDMAN

56-H - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
GLOVE WITH THE NO. 102

56-I - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
CAP WITH THE NO. 103

56-J - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
ENVELOPE WITH THE NO. 104

56-K - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14235 85
RING WITH THE NO. 105

EXHIBITS
(CONTINUED)

DEFENSE FOR IN
EXHIBIT IDENTIFICATION EVIDENCE

PAGE VOL. PAGE VOL.

1005 - PHOTOGRAPH WITH 14156 85
TWO RED ARROWS AND BODY OF VICTIME NICOLE
BROWN SIMPSON

1006 - 2-PAGE DOCUMENT 14159 85
ENTITLED "CRIME SCENE LOG"

1007 - PHOTOGRAPH 14178 85

1008 - PHOTOGRAPH 14179 85

1009 - 2-PAGE PHONE 14191 85
LOG FROM L.A. CELLULAR

1010 - 2-PAGE DOCUMENT 14193 85
REPORT OF OFFICER ROBERT RISKE

1011 - PHOTOGRAPH OF 14225 85
CRIME SCENE WITH POLICE OFFICER

??

14066