Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge

APPEARANCES: (Appearances as heretofore noted.)

(Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)

(Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)

(The following proceedings were held in open Court, out of the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: Good morning, counsel. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. Mr. Simpson is again present before the Court with his counsel, Mr. Shapiro, Mr. Cochran, Mr. Bailey, Mr. Blasier, Mr. Neufeld. The People are represented by Mr. Goldman--Goldberg, excuse me, and Mr. Darden. The jury is not present. Counsel, anything we need to take up before we invite the jury to join us? All right. Let's have the jury, please.

(Brief pause.)

(The following proceedings were held in open Court, in the presence of the jury:)

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, can we just approach for a moment off the record?

(A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)

(The following proceedings were held in open Court:)

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

THE COURT: All right. The People may call their next witness.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. The People call Andrea Mazzola to the stand.

Andrea Mazzola, called as a witness by the People, was sworn and testified as follows:

THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand. You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this Court, shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

MS. MAZZOLA: I do.

THE CLERK: Please have a seat on the witness stand and state and spell your first and last names for the record.

MS. MAZZOLA: Andrea Mazzola, A-N-D-R-E-A M-A-Z-Z-O-L-A.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberg.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. GOLDBERG

MR. GOLDBERG: Good morning, Miss Mazzola.

MS. MAZZOLA: Good morning.

MR. GOLDBERG: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good morning.

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola directing your attention to the date of June 13, 1994, did you participate in some evidence collection at the location of 360 north Rockingham and 875 Bundy in Los Angeles?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And on the 14th did you also participate in some collection at the Bronco in the print shed?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, before getting into those matters, I would like to ask you a little bit about your training and your experience. First of all, what is your job title?

MS. MAZZOLA: Criminalist 1.

MR. GOLDBERG: And a criminalist is?

MS. MAZZOLA: We work in the crime lab; collection, preservation of evidence and analyzing the evidence, testifying as an expert witness in Court.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is part of your job description as a criminalist, that you actually have to analyze evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: As part of analyzing evidence do you generate analyzed evidence reports?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, we do.

MR. GOLDBERG: And then as part of your job description are you also required to testify in Court as an expert witness?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, we are.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that true when you were first hired with the Los Angeles Police Department as a criminalist 1?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, before you became a criminalist 1 at the Los Angeles Police Department, did you have some formal training in school?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what degree do you hold?

MS. MAZZOLA: I hold a bachelor of science in forensic science.

MR. GOLDBERG: And where is that from?

MS. MAZZOLA: California State University Sacramento.

MR. GOLDBERG: Before you were allowed to take courses that were specific to forensic science, did you have to take general background science courses?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what kind of courses did you take that were general background science courses before you got into the specifics of forensic science?

MS. MAZZOLA: We had to take general chemistry, organic chemistry, qualitative analysis, quantity--quantitative analysis, chemistry, biochemistry. We had to take some biology courses, such as anatomy, genetics, basic biology.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you take microbiology?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Organic chemistry?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And after you were finished with taking these various general science courses, did you then take some courses that were specific to the area of criminalistics?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Approximately how many courses did you take in school that were specific to the area of criminalistics?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was approximately five.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was one of those courses a trace analysis course?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what did that involve?

MS. MAZZOLA: It involved the analyzing of trace evidence, such as hair, fiber, minute glass particles, extremely small pieces of evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you do any serology in that course?

MS. MAZZOLA: We did a basic ABO blood typing experiment.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And what is serology, if you could just give us a general definition?

MS. MAZZOLA: Serology deals with the analyzation of bodily fluids.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, did this professor that taught you in the trace analysis course use any particular technique to impress on you the importance of maintaining control of your evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. Umm, if he thought that we were not maintaining control over our evidence, if he thought we were leaving it out on the bench top, he would confiscate the evidence. And since the evidence was your unknown, you had to buy it back with points, and each report was only with 50 points to begin with, so if you lost 20 points buying your evidence, you more or less couldn't pass that one section.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you lose any points during this course as a result of not maintaining control of your evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And did this technique that the professor used seem to work in impressing on you the--

MS. MAZZOLA: It worked extremely well.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, as a student when you were there at the California State University did you start--did you participate with other students in starting any organizations in the area of criminalistics?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. Umm, since forensic science was such a small major, we wanted to try to bring more people into the area, at least let them become familiar with it, so we started an organization which became recognized by the university to promote forensic science, to give people an idea of what it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Did you also begin attending meetings as a student of the California Association of Criminalists?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what is that association?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is an organization of criminalists, people in the fields. They attend meetings, seminars, classes, to gain more information in the field, to share ideas, new techniques.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And when you graduated from the California State University, did you begin working at a law enforcement agency--

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: --as a criminalist? What agency was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was the Kern County District Attorney's office crime lab in Bakersfield.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what was your job title there when you began with the Kern County District Attorney's office in their crime lab?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was a criminalist.

MR. GOLDBERG: What were you doing in the crime lab?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was assigned to the toxicology unit.

MR. GOLDBERG: And toxicology is what?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is the analysis of blood and urine for drugs of abuse.

MR. GOLDBERG: So you are dealing with biological specimens in toxicology?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, how long were you at the Kern County District Attorney's office crime lab?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was approximately 18 months.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you were there working in toxicology, umm, was there anything that you learned in terms of handling biological specimens and avoiding cross-contamination that would be relevant towards processing a crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, anytime you are working with biologicals or any evidence, you have to be careful of cross-contamination. You only work on one item or one sample at a time. You never have two items open at the same time. You are very careful about the utensils you use, whether it is pipettes, which are usually disposable, or tweezers or scissors, anything.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And when you were there at the Kern County District Attorney's office crime lab, did you have the opportunity to see what other criminalists were doing in areas that were not involved with toxicology?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So did you sort of get an overview of different areas of criminalistics while you were there?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you ever have the opportunity of seeing people at the Kern County crime lab, the criminalists, processing bloody clothing or clothing from rape cases that might contain biological evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: While you were there did you join any other organizations that are involved in the area of criminalistics?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, I joined the American Academy of Forensic Science.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what is the American Academy of Forensic Sciences as opposed to the California Association of Criminalists?

MS. MAZZOLA: They are similar in that they are both organizations dealing with the area of criminalistics, forensic science, the law. The American academy takes a wider view. We have people who are in the law, we have dentists. There are different sections dealing with the different professions.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Did you also join the California Association of Criminalists?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I joined as a member.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that in this same time frame?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: And you were there for you said 18 months?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, after you left the Kern County District Attorney's office crime lab, where did you go?

MS. MAZZOLA: I started looking for another job.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you find employment as a criminalist?

MS. MAZZOLA: I found employment as a toxicologist in a private lab.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was that lab?

MS. MAZZOLA: Valley toxicology.

MR. GOLDBERG: So as a toxicologist were you doing the same thing that you were doing when you were working in the Kern County toxicology section?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And you were doing the actual--is it a chemical analysis or a physical analysis of the biological specimens?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is more of a chemical analysis.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are you testing for anything other than drugs?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, just drugs.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. When were you--at this toxicology, valley toxicology, what were the dates that you were there?

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, let's see. Let me check my--it was approximately May of `93 to about the middle of December of `93.

MR. GOLDBERG: And after you left valley toxicology where did you go?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was offered a position with LAPD.

MR. GOLDBERG: When did you start with LAPD?

MS. MAZZOLA: January 24, 1994.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And when you were hired were you hired alone or were there other people that were hired in the same group?

MS. MAZZOLA: There were three other people who were hired approximately the same time as I was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in approximately April of 1994 did you go through a mini academy?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what did that involve?

MS. MAZZOLA: It involved showing us the way that the LAPD crime lab collects their evidence, the different sections, what they had to offer us, what they had available to help us at a crime scene or analyzing evidence once we got back to the lab.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did they teach you how to physically pick up evidence and collect evidence at a crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did they teach you how to collect bodily fluids?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, they did.

MR. GOLDBERG: How was that done? Was that a theoretical instruction or a practical or a combination?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was a combination. They first told us why they do it this way, why you need to pick up, be it blood or whatever. Then we had practical hands-on where we would actually pick up the blood from different substrates; concrete, carpet, stone.

MR. GOLDBERG: So were these mock crime scenes or what were they when you were picking up this blood in the mini academy?

MS. MAZZOLA: It really wasn't like a mock crime scene. They just had the blood on the different substrates that we would tend to run into out in the real world, so we would have hands-on experience on how to manipulate the stain, how to collect it, preserve it, to learn, you know, to be careful about contamination.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did they also teach you other techniques such as tool marks, dust prints, shoeprints and the like?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, how difficult was it for you to learn how to pick up blood, biological evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is not hard at all.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And as a criminalist, when you start as a criminalist 1, are you expected to go out to crime scenes and pick up evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: We are expected to accompany the more experienced criminalists when we can. We watch them, the way they process scenes. We are allowed to pick up evidence under their supervision. It gives us more training under supervision.

MR. GOLDBERG: How long are you a criminalist 1 before you can become a criminalist 2?

MS. MAZZOLA: We are a criminalist 1 for a year and a half.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, is there some aspect in which even though you are a criminalist 1 and you've been taught how to do these physical--how to physically collect the evidence, is there some aspect in which you are still being trained in crime scene investigation during that 18 months?

MS. MAZZOLA: In that period it is more like we are being trained in the discretionary area to go to a crime scene, to look at it, to decide what is evidence, what we can pick up that would be of value, what can be analyzed back at the lab. That is the part that we are being trained in as criminalist 1's.

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, are you still being trained in the physical part of how you actually physically pick up a shoeprint or how you physically pick up a piece of biological evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: To a certain extent. For the most part we are trained in the technical area. It is the discretionary area, making the decisions, that we are in the process of learning.

MR. GOLDBERG: What all does this discretionary area involve in terms of being a criminalist? Is it just what to pick up and what not to pick up?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, also it involves dealing with the people you will find at the scene; the detectives, the Coroner's people, determining what is viable evidence versus what is really not part of the scene.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are at a scene do you simply just pick up anything and everything that happens to be in the area or within a certain diameter of the bodies, in the case of a murder? How do you go about making that kind of a decision?

MS. MAZZOLA: That again is the discretionary area. You have to look at the whole scene, try to get an idea of what could have happened and start looking for items that could be connected. It is better to pick up a little more than not enough.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is there any problem with just indiscriminately collecting everything that you see?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, because you will spend all your time picking up every single little bit of paper or whatever and you are not adding towards figuring out what happened. You are adding a lot of garbage is what it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is it this area in which during the 18 months you are still being trained then in terms of how to evaluate a crime scene, how to make this kind of decision?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, that's the area.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, prior to the work that you did on June the 13th, had you actually gone out on crime scenes and seen other people collect evidence and collect some evidence yourself?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you listed the number of crime scenes, do you distinguish between a crime scene and a car search?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did. Some people don't, but at that point I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So some people put the two of them together?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. With respect to your first crime scene, did you actually pick up any evidence at that crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, under supervision.

MR. GOLDBERG: And was there any biological evidence that was involved in that first crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: There was a lot of biological evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you give us just a guesstimate as to how many stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: (no audible response.)

MR. GOLDBERG: I mean, are we talking about less than a dozen or more than a dozen?

MS. MAZZOLA: More than a dozen.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you pick up some of those stains yourself?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you processed that first crime scene, did you get any feedbacks in terms of how you had done?

MS. MAZZOLA: We--the people that were processing the scene were given a commendation for the scene.

MR. GOLDBERG: So this was your first crime scene and you received a commendation for it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And was that presented in some awards ceremony?

MS. MAZZOLA: They mentioned it at our annual luncheon, they read the commendation.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Did you also process another crime scene after this and before June the 13th that had biological evidence in it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did that have multiple stains as well?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you pick up those stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were there any other crime scenes that you participated in before June the 13th that had biological evidence that you physically participated in collecting?

MS. MAZZOLA: There was one that had biological evidence, but the collection procedure was not the procedures used on the other scenes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, was that a car search or--

MS. MAZZOLA: Right. This was a car search.

MR. GOLDBERG: And you said that you do make a distinction between those?

MS. MAZZOLA: I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: But there was one car search that you were involved in that also had biological evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, after June the 13th and before today's date did you participate in any more crime scenes that had biological evidence that needed to be collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And can you give us an approximate number?

MS. MAZZOLA: Of scenes?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yeah.

MS. MAZZOLA: (no audible response.)

MR. GOLDBERG: And include car searches.

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, okay. Biological, there were two actual scenes.

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry?

THE COURT: Scenes.

MR. NEUFELD: Scenes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, at the crime lab, the Los Angeles Police Department crime lab, do they have a position that is known as criminalist trainee?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that any kind of an official word that is used?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: A trainee?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. But as you said, there is--to some extent you are being trained in crime scene processing and investigation--

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: --as a criminalist 1? At the crime scenes that--the crime scenes that you participated in on June the 13th and also on the 14th in the Bronco, if we divide the work of a criminalist up the way that you have suggested into the mental and discretionary type components and the physical collection components--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection. I don't believe she ever used the word "Mental."

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. GOLDBERG: Which--who was responsible for the mental or the discretionary type components?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is the criminalist 3's area.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, going back a second to this mini academy, when you were going through the mini academy, do they actually teach you specifically what the people in serology are going to do with the evidence after you've collected it, in the case of biological evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not specifically, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And do they train you actually how to do DNA tests?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: So are they training you the physical collection procedures?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, I would like to direct your attention back to the date of June the 13th, 1994. At some point in the early morning did you receive a telephone call that awakened you?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was already awake.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

MS. MAZZOLA: But I did get the call.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what time was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was approximately 5:25 in the morning.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And did that call notify you that you were to respond to a crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, are all criminalists at the laboratory expected to respond to crime scenes?

MS. MAZZOLA: We are all put on a rotation.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how often are you on this rotation, approximately?

MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately three months, every three months we come up.

MR. GOLDBERG: And for what length of a period of time are you on call every three months?

MS. MAZZOLA: Sometimes we are on call for a week. We take the evening calls at night. Sometimes we are assigned to the weekend and it is 24 hours a day.

MR. GOLDBERG: So on this particular occasion on June 13th did this simply happen to be the occasion that you were on call?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: What did you have to do after you got this call notifying you that you needed to respond to a crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: I called my criminalist 3, Mr. Fung, and informed him that we had a scene and we were to meet at the laboratory.

MR. GOLDBERG: And was he also on call?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: For what purpose did you need to meet at the laboratory?

MS. MAZZOLA: We needed to meet there to pick up the crime scene truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you do so?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did the--did you then drive in the truck to the location--to the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, while you were going to the Rockingham location in the truck, was there any conversation with respect to filling out the crime scene identification checklist, the Officer in Charge portion?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, at this time I would like to take a look at People's 161 identification.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, is the resolution on your screen good enough so that you can--

MS. MAZZOLA: Not really.

MR. GOLDBERG: Maybe we can just focus in on the area that says "OIC name." Okay. You need to pull the paper a little bit over to the right.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, can you recognize this?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you--is this your handwriting?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And your name is where it says "Officer in Charge"?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was the conversation that you had with respect to filling out that portion of this form?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to the hearsay remarks of anyone else in the trial.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. GOLDBERG: As to what?

THE COURT: Sustained.

THE COURT: Hearsay as to what the discussion was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Well, it is not coming in for the truth of the matter, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled. Excuse me. Sustained. Still sustained.

MR. GOLDBERG: But at any rate, your name was put in that location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Without telling us what the conversation was, there was some conversation about it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, after you actually got to the location, did you continue to be the--or were you the Officer in Charge after you got to the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Once we found out what was all involved, I was not the Officer in Charge.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who became the Officer in Charge?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: What are the functions of the Officer in Charge, as opposed to the person assisting him or her?

MS. MAZZOLA: The Officer in Charge, no. 1, talked to the detectives to try to get an idea of what is going on, they make the discretionary calls as to what to pick up as evidence, they interact with the people at the scene, whether it is the detectives, police officers, Coroner's officials.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who directs the other SID people, like print people and photography people?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is the Officer in Charge.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, did you perform those functions at the Rockingham or Bundy locations?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would next like to take a look at People's 189--

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: --for identification.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to People's 189 for identification, when was this document filled out?

MS. MAZZOLA: Part of it--

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry. Objection, your Honor. Foundation. We don't even know who filled it out first.

THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is this your handwriting?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: When was this filled out?

MS. MAZZOLA: Part of it was filled out the morning of the 13th.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that shortly after you arrived at Rockingham?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, leading.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: When was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Shortly after we arrived at the Rockingham location.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And you placed--and did you have any conversation with respect to how this form was going to be filled out that you can remember?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, not really.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Was this a matter of consequence in your mind?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

THE COURT: All right. For the record, People's 189 is the vehicle search checklist.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now--thank you. That is fine. By the way, did you do any searching of the interior of the Bronco at any time on the 13th or was that done at some later time?

MS. MAZZOLA: That was done at a later time.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, shortly after you arrived at the Rockingham location did you have any conversations with any detectives who gave you a walk-through of the location?

MS. MAZZOLA: I personally did not talk to any of the detectives.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were you present when that happened?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And without telling us what was said, what happened?

MS. MAZZOLA: They showed us some things that they were interested in, they wanted us to take a look at.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that a general walk-through?

MS. MAZZOLA: At first it was the Bronco and after there were some other items they wanted us to take a look at.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall who the detective was that did that, or detectives?

MS. MAZZOLA: I personally don't.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, did you physically collect some of the stains that were located at the Rockingham location that morning, the morning of the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did Mr. Fung participate physically in the collection of some of those stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, he did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, at this time I would like to take a look at the demonstration board. It is People's 162 for identification.

THE COURT: Yes.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: I don't know whether you can see this, Miss Mazzola.

MS. MAZZOLA: I have an idea what is on it.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

MR. GOLDBERG: Using this demonstration board, can you describe for us, starting with the first cell on People's 162, the steps that are involved in collecting a stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: May I--

MR. GOLDBERG: Maybe we can see that--can we see that cell?

THE COURT: All right. Miss Mazzola, can you see it on your monitor here?

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, okay.

THE COURT: Sorry?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. That shows two spots, blood spots, that are numbered.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And is the first phase in this collection stated on the board the numbering and measuring phase?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is there a documentation aspect to that phase as well?

MS. MAZZOLA: The location, measurements, the photo i.d. Numbers and a brief description are noted on the evidence collection sheet.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And are the items also photographed before they are collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, they are.

MR. GOLDBERG: So all of that occurs prior to the physical collection?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 2 that says "Dampened swatch," what is involved in this stage of the collection procedure?

MS. MAZZOLA: A small cloth swatch of the approximate size you need is selected with a pair of clean tweezers. A drop of distilled water is put on the swatch. It is then shaken so any excess water is shaken off.

MR. GOLDBERG: And directing your attention now to cell no. 3 that says "Collect substrate control," what is done in this phase of the correction procedure?

MS. MAZZOLA: The cloth swatch is placed on the substrate, the concrete or whatever, as close to the stain as possible, but without getting it in the stain, to get a background control of what the sample is on.

MR. GOLDBERG: What does the term "Substrate" mean?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is just the substance that the item of interest is on.

MR. GOLDBERG: So if the item of interest, for example, instead of being on a walkway, were on a wall, what would be the substrate?

MS. MAZZOLA: The wall would be the substrate.

MR. GOLDBERG: Or if it were on clothing, what would be the substrate?

MS. MAZZOLA: The clothing.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is the purpose of taking this control that is near the stain but not on the stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, it could be used for two factors: One is to provide a background, what the sample was on, so when they go to run tests on the sample, they can see if the background itself would interfere with the tests. The control can also be checked for DNA or other items of interest to see if any contamination took place.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, so this control is basically just a blank swatch that has water on it that is put on the concrete in this example?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: So do you handle this piece of evidence exactly--or this piece of swatch exactly the same way that you would handle a swatch that was actually put on the stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is handled the same way.

MR. GOLDBERG: Why is it that you use the identical handling procedures for the substrate control that you would use for a swatch that was actually put on the stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because you want them to be as identical as possible. The only difference being one will contain the item of interest; the other won't.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 4 on People's 1--excuse me--162 for identification, what phase of the collection procedure is shown here?

MS. MAZZOLA: It looks like the cloth swatch is being placed into a small plastic envelope, small plastic bag. The control is placed in one bag.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And now directing your attention to cell no. 5 that says "Clean tweezers"--excuse me. I'm sorry. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 5, that says "Clean tweezers" in our demonstration?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. After the control is taken, the tweezers are cleaned with distilled water and a chem wipe, which is like a laboratory Kleenex.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 6, which says on our board "Take new swatch, then dampen it," what does this phase of the collection procedure involve?

MS. MAZZOLA: Our swatches are stored in plastic tubes so you have to take a small selection of them out of the tube without handling them and then you can select the correct size that you need, so that is what is being shown.

MR. GOLDBERG: How do you decide which size to take?

MS. MAZZOLA: It depends on the size of the stain. You want to select a size swatch that is small enough that--so when you apply it to the stain you would get it as concentrated as possible.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in this particular photograph it is kind of hard for me to see that there are actually swatches in that little bottle, but is that what you are saying?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: The swatches come from that bottle?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, let's take a look at cell no. 7 that says "Collect stain" and "Number card removed" is in parentheses. What are you doing here?

MS. MAZZOLA: That would be the actual collection of the stain.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you have to dampen the swatch before you--

MS. MAZZOLA: Right, the same as with the control. You dampen the swatch, shake off the excess water, then you apply the swatch to the stain.

MR. GOLDBERG: And finally taking a look at cell no. 8 that says, "Package stain in same envelope with substrate control," what is involved in this procedure?

MS. MAZZOLA: The swatch with the stain is placed in a separate plastic envelope. Both the control and the swatch with the item you are interested in are placed in the same coin envelope with the item number written on the outside.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now when you are--thank you.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you are collecting one of these stains, do you collect one stain at a time?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And I want to ask you some questions about different things that could happen when you are collecting a stain. Do you--do you ever drop the tweezers while you are doing that?

MS. MAZZOLA: That can happen.

MR. GOLDBERG: What happens if you do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: You clean them all over again.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are taking a swatch that actually has blood on it, do you ever drop that bloody swatch?

MS. MAZZOLA: That has never happened to me.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are pouring the--maybe pouring is not the right word, but you are taking some of those little swatches out of the container, the little pill bottle--

MS. MAZZOLA: Uh-huh.

MR. GOLDBERG: --do those swatches ever fall?

MS. MAZZOLA: They do occasionally, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What do you do with those swatches?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't use them.

MR. GOLDBERG: Could you use them as substrate controls?

MS. MAZZOLA: You could.

MR. GOLDBERG: But you do not do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: But I personally don't do that.

MR. GOLDBERG: So you just throw them away?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are picking up a swatch, do any of the swatches ever stick together?

MS. MAZZOLA: That happens sometimes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. What do you do in that kind of instance?

MS. MAZZOLA: If you are taking either the control or the actual item, you can use both swatches.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. But what if you have two swatches stuck together? Do you try to separate them or is it possible that you could apply both of them to the stain at the same time, without knowing it?

MS. MAZZOLA: You can tell if two of them are stuck together. Umm, you separate them and you--you use one swatch at a time, either to pick up the control or to pick up the stain itself.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And what about the labeling of the coin envelopes? Have you ever mislabeled one of those by writing the wrong item number?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. When are they--when are the envelopes labeled in relationship to when the collection takes place? Before--

MS. MAZZOLA: The envelopes were labeled before.

MR. GOLDBERG: So do you put the--if you are collecting stain no. 5, for example--

MS. MAZZOLA: Uh-huh.

MR. GOLDBERG: --in our demonstration, you are going to put that in an envelope that is labeled what?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. 5.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that would be done before you moved on to no. 6?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you were at the Rockingham location did you place your initials on all the coin envelopes as you were collecting them?

MS. MAZZOLA: At the time I thought I did. Looking back I apparently didn't.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do you recall testifying at what we've been referring to or sometimes referred to as a griffin hearing on August 23, I believe, of 1994?

MS. MAZZOLA: I remember testifying at the griffin hearing.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And in that--when you were testifying at that hearing at that time, did you believe that you had put all of your initials or your initials on all of the items that you had collected on the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: At that time I believe I had.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you since learn that you did not?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: Objection. What she assumes is hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Did you since look at photographs of some of the items collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And have you learned that you did not?

MS. MAZZOLA: I learned I had not.

MR. GOLDBERG: On the other scenes that you had processed--

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, I'm sorry. Move to strike the last answer. It is conclusionary as opposed to testimony.

THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, on the other stains--excuse me--other scenes that you had collected stains on prior to the 13th, had you initialed on those occasions?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why wasn't that done here at the scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was told that there were only two of us that--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to what she was told.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Without telling us what was said, was there a conversation about this?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And after the conversation did--was there some conclusion that was arrived at?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what was the conclusion?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: What is the basis?

MR. NEUFELD: Hearsay again.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: There were only going to be two of us at the scenes collecting evidence. We were working as a team, so it really didn't matter if our initials were on the envelopes since we were working as a team.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, as to the crime scene identification checklist that we talked a little bit about, when you testified at the griffin hearing, what was your understanding of how that checklist was supposed to be used?

MS. MAZZOLA: At the time I thought that everything had to be filled out. The other scenes that I had gone on they had filled out the checklist.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Maybe we can see a portion. I think it is 1107.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Let's just take a look at the last page of the exhibit. It is 1107 for identification.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Fairtlough, what page number is that? They are numbered at the top.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: Page 2 of 2.

MR. GOLDBERG: I don't think it has a number. It is the one that has 17, 18 and 19.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Or 18, 17 and 19.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Is this the form that you use out in the field when you are collecting evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: It is a little blurry there.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, prior to testifying at the griffin hearing did you believe that every single box in every single column needed to be filled out?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And as a result of your training and experience after the griffin hearing, did you learn something different?

MS. MAZZOLA: I learned that this is a general guideline for us. Some of the boxes really don't apply to us at the scene.

MR. GOLDBERG: When did you start--when did you learn that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right after I testified at the griffin hearing.

MR. GOLDBERG: And got back to the laboratory?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. With respect to the time column, have you noticed now, based upon the experience that you have to date, that different criminalists in the Los Angeles Police Department have different practices with respect to how they fill out that column?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how is that used?

MS. MAZZOLA: Some fill out every single individual time that something is collected. Others put a starting time that they start collecting evidence and an ending time when they stop. Everything that is collected is collected while you are at the scene, so it happens between those two times.

MR. GOLDBERG: And then are there some people that use what I guess you might call an intermediate type usage of that time column and put in some times, as you did on the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, leading.

THE COURT: Sustained. The answer is stricken. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are there some people that use an intermediate technique?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, getting back to the collection of the evidence at Rockingham, perhaps we can take a look at People's 120 for identification. It is the board of Rockingham, the outside stains.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to People's 120 for identification, do you recognize what is depicted here?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is not showing up.

MR. GOLDBERG: It is not going to be on the monitor. Maybe you can just step down for a moment and take a look at this.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. Yes, I recognize it.

MR. GOLDBERG: And are these photographs that depict various items that you participated in collecting on the 13th at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Yes.

THE COURT: Overruled. May we have a side bar, your Honor?

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you were doing the physical collection on these, do you recall what order they were done in? Were they done in numerical order?

MS. MAZZOLA: For the most part, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And would that mean that you started with the stains that are down towards the gate?

MS. MAZZOLA: The first stain that was collected was on--excuse me--on the door of the Bronco.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know who physically collected that?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know who physically collected that.

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear.

MS. MAZZOLA: Excuse me. I was the one who collected the one on the Bronco.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to the stains that are leading from the Bronco into the driveway area, did you and Dennis Fung physically collect those--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to her and Dennis Fung.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, can you tell us, when you first started the collection, can you be more specific as to who was doing what in terms of the physical collection?

MS. MAZZOLA: As I said, I was the one that collected the stain offer the Bronco, and Mr. Fung collected the stain on the street. When we got to the driveway, he did, I believe it was like the first two stains, and I took over from there and was the one who physically collected the rest.

MR. GOLDBERG: With respect to the other stains, do you have a recollection of whether he physically participated in collecting any of those?

MS. MAZZOLA: He was present for some.

MR. GOLDBERG: So at the beginning of the stains he was doing more of the physical collection and then towards the end less?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And with respect to the first phase of the collection procedure, the documentation, the numbering and the measuring phase, how did the two of you work together to accomplish that?

MS. MAZZOLA: We worked as a team.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, with respect to the stains at the end of the outdoor area, stain no. 7 and stain no. 8, do you recall where Dennis Fung was around the time that those were collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: At first he was not present, but as I kept working, he came up.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall whether anyone else was present at the time those stains were collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: In the immediate area?

MS. MAZZOLA: There was someone in the immediate area.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Steve Johnson.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who is he?

MS. MAZZOLA: He is the assistant lab director.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know where Dennis Fung was at the time that he was not present?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't.

MR. GOLDBERG: Where he went?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: But he went somewhere and at some point came back?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to the stains at the Rockingham location, were--was every single last stain collected or were there some that were not collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: There were some that were not collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what is your training with respect to the need to collect every stain as opposed to less than all the stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, on a trail you want to get a representative sample, you want to get the first few stains, you want to pick up the last few stains. The ones in between, as long as they appear to be going in the general direction, there is nothing out of the ordinary with them, not every single stain has to be collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is that the technique that you and Mr. Fung used with respect to collecting these stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right--you can--I want to ask you some questions that you may have to refer to your crime scene identification checklist for, so you may want to return to the stand.

MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.)

THE COURT: Mr. Goldberg, are you going to refer back to this exhibit, People's 120, for a minute.

MR. GOLDBERG: I want to talk about stains, unless logistically we can't do that.

THE COURT: Well, if you are going to be referring to it, proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. With respect to the stains numbered 4 through 6 on our diagram, with the photo i.d. Numbers, 4 through 6, down towards the beginning portion of the driveway, can you tell us the time frame that those stains were collected?

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry, your Honor. The record should reflect that the witness is refreshing her recollection from some notes. May I approach the witness and see?

THE COURT: You may.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

THE COURT: Miss Mazzola, what are you referring to?

MS. MAZZOLA: I'm referring to the crime scene notes.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Proceed.

MS. MAZZOLA: They were collected around nine o'clock, all within a few minutes of each other.

MR. GOLDBERG: And with respect to the stains that are up towards the--close to the entrance area, stain no. 7, stain no. 8, what was the time frame of those stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: Those were approximately ten to fifteen minutes later.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you have some time frames in your crime scene identification checklist to give us?

MS. MAZZOLA: Item 7 was collected approximately 9:10. Item 8, approximately fifteen minutes later.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, when you were at the location, from what you saw of all of the stains, did any of them appear to have been stepped in?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, before--I can take this down now, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: Mr. Fairtlough, why don't you swing that around.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Before you left the Rockingham location, did you and Mr. Fung do any--go through any process in terms of double-checking the evidence that you had?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: We knew what item numbers we collected. We look at each individual item to make sure that we had everything.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And is that a routine thing that you have done on the other crime scenes that you were on before this?

MS. MAZZOLA: At the other crime scenes we make sure that we have everything that we collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: What did you do with the various coin envelopes that you had with the biological evidence of them--in them?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were put in a small paper bag.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall whether they were lying down or standing up?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were standing up.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what was done with the paper bag?

MS. MAZZOLA: The paper bag was put into the back of the crime scene truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was the crime scene truck locked?

MS. MAZZOLA: All the time.

MR. GOLDBERG: Approximately what time was it that you left the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was approximately ten o'clock, somewhere around there.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were you wearing gloves during the collection procedure of the biological evidence at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do you know whether you were wearing the same pair of gloves the whole time?

MS. MAZZOLA: I probably changed gloves. I don't remember how many times, but--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor, speculative. She said "I probably," and move to strike the answer.

THE COURT: Strained. Rephrase the question. Excuse me. The jury is to disregard the last answer and question.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have a practice at a crime scene to wear the same pair of gloves throughout the entire crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is your practice?

MS. MAZZOLA: I change the gloves when they start getting uncomfortable. If I am done possessing an area and I am moving on to a completely separate area, I will change gloves.

MR. GOLDBERG: By the way, just going back for a second to the blood collection procedure, can you--do you ever touch the blood with your gloved hands?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are collecting it?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: What about the swatches?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that something that has happened to you by accident where you have touched a bloody swatch with your gloved hands?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, what do you do with the gloves that you are wearing at the time that you leave the Rockingham location? Do you keep them on?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. We take a paper bag which we label "Trash" and any trash that we generate, whether it is used gloves, swabs, chem wipes, anything, goes into this bag and we take it with us.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, after you left the Rockingham location where did you go?

MS. MAZZOLA: We went to Bundy.

MR. GOLDBERG: Approximately what time did you arrive at the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: 10:15, somewhere around there.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you arrived at the Bundy location, from your own independent recollection, what was going on at that location when you arrived?

MS. MAZZOLA: There were a lot of people there. The Coroners were there. It appeared that there were detectives at the scene.

MR. GOLDBERG: From your independent recollection do you recall whether you saw the body of either Nicole Brown or Ronald Goldman?

MS. MAZZOLA: I remember seeing a brief glimpse of Mr. Goldman.

MR. GOLDBERG: Where do you recall him being?

MS. MAZZOLA: He was up on the walkway.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were you playing--paying close attention to what was going on during this period of time?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was trying to look at everything. There was a lot going on at that time.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Do you recall an incident where Mr. Fung took a bag over to Mr. Lange, Detective Lange?

MS. MAZZOLA: I remember Mr. Fung taking a bag up to the area.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Did you know what was going on at that time?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you see what he did with it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Umm, no, I don't.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you ever, from your own independent recollection, recall seeing Nicole Brown at the location with any blanket over here?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall seeing Nicole Brown.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you remember anything about a blanket?

MS. MAZZOLA: I remember seeing a white blanket there.

MR. GOLDBERG: And where do you remember seeing it the first time that you can recall seeing it?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was up on the walkway near the steps.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you see how it got there?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, I would like to direct your attention to People's 165 for identification, the board showing the Bundy biological evidence.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, maybe you can step down for a moment just to take a look at this.

MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Does this diagram appear to depict the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it does.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do the photographs appear to depict various items of biological evidence that you and Mr. Fung collected on the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to this diagram, I don't think it is on here, but do you recall the first item of evidence that--biological evidence, rather, that you collected, the first stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe it was on a tree stump. I don't see it on the board.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. It is--the photograph isn't there?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And for what purpose was that collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: That was collected as a reference sample for Mr. Goldman.

MR. GOLDBERG: With respect to the biological evidence in the caged-off area, can you describe for us, in the physical collection procedure, how you and Mr. Fung worked together in collecting that evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: He was supervising. He was watching me. After we had marked the numbers, they had been photographed, measured, sketched, he watched as I collected the biological.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And do you recall whether he did any of the physical collection with respect to those items in the caged-off area?

MS. MAZZOLA: There--I believe there were a couple of items that he personally collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: From your independent recollection today, do you know which ones those are?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And did you then begin--which did you do first, the caged-off area or what we referred to as the trail, in terms of collecting biological evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: The caged-off area.

MR. GOLDBERG: At some later point you began working on the trail?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall who did most of the physical swatching on the items on the trail?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did the swatching.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now--

MS. MAZZOLA: The majority.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall any stains now, from your independent recollection, that Mr. Fung physically participated in swatching on the trail?

MS. MAZZOLA: Item 112, he picked up a little more blood off of that item than I had picked up, and there was one other item farther down the trail that he picked up. I can't remember which one now.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you said item no. 112, were you looking at the photograph--

MS. MAZZOLA: The photograph, right.

MR. GOLDBERG: That has item no. 47?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And does the call-out line depict the general area where that was located?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, can you specifically tell us, in terms of item or photo number, where this other item was, or is it just a general recollection?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was just a general recollection.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us anything that stands out in your mind about that other stain or the circumstances surrounding the collection of that stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, I remember that Mr. Fung knelt down and became a little upset because there were several purple berries in the area and he had knelt down on one and had stained his pants, so he was a little upset about that.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that how you remember that item?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is how I remember that he had picked up one farther down the trail.

THE COURT: Excuse me, counsel. Miss Mazzola, if you would, over the last several questions and answers, you have talked over each other. Miss Mazzola, let Mr. Goldberg finish asking the question. Mr. Goldberg, let her finish answering the question before you start with the next one.

MR. GOLDBERG: Sorry, your Honor. Thank you.

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you were collecting these items along the trail area, I direct your attention to stain no. 50, that is item no. 115, and then stain no. 51, it is down here in the lower right-hand corner.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay.

MR. GOLDBERG: That is item no. 116. Do you recall specifically why they--why they were numbered in that order?

MS. MAZZOLA: I do not recall why they were numbered in that order.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Do you--when you were at a scene--when you were at this scene did you make it a practice to number them in some sort of sequence based on the geography of the location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to stain no. 52, that is item no. 117, do you recall collecting that stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is there anything about that stain or the substrate control on that stain that stands out in your memory?

MS. MAZZOLA: What stands out in my memory, because when I went to take the control, a red color, pigment came up on the swatch, and that is the first time that has happened to me, so--it was about the same color as the driveway. That is why it stands out.

MR. GOLDBERG: Other than that, do you recall anything particularly coming up on the control swatches on the other items on the trail?

MS. MAZZOLA: Other than maybe a little dirt, nothing spectacular.

MR. GOLDBERG: But nothing that stood out in your mind?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall one way or the other?

MS. MAZZOLA: (no audible response.)

MR. GOLDBERG: I mean, was it something you took a note of?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: So the only one that stood out in your mind, in terms of coming up with something on the control, was no. 52?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. You can resume your seat.

MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.)

(Brief pause.)

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberg, I would like to take our recess at this point.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take our first recess for the morning. Please remember all of my admonitions to you. Do not discuss the case amongst yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't discuss the matter with anybody else, do not conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you. We will stand in recess until 10:30. Miss Mazzola, you may step down. You are ordered to return at 10:30. All right. Thank you.

(Recess.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. All parties are again present. Let's have the jury, please.

(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we've now been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Miss Andrea Mazzola is on the witness stand undergoing direct examination by Mr. Goldberg. Good morning again, Miss Mazzola.

MS. MAZZOLA: Good morning.

THE COURT: Miss Mazzola, you are reminded that you are still under oath. Mr. Goldberg, you may continue.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you, your Honor.

MR. GOLDBERG: We were talking about the substrate controls I believe before we left. Is it necessary--do you always have to collect the substrate control in every situation when you collect a stain using LAPD procedures?

MS. MAZZOLA: If it is possible to collect one, we collect one.

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, when would it not be possible? Can you give us an example?

MS. MAZZOLA: If say the blood covers the entire area, a small piece of stone or wood or whatever, then there would be no surface area to collect a control off of.

MR. GOLDBERG: You mean if there was no uncontaminated area?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: I want to ask you a couple questions more about the Griffen hearing before we continue with the Bundy collection, this hearing in August of 1994. When did you first become aware that you were going to testify in that hearing?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was that morning.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how was it you became aware of it?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was already at work in the toxicology section, and I got a phone call from Michelle Kestler, the lab director.

MR. GOLDBERG: Had you ever testified before that as an expert witness in court?

MS. MAZZOLA: In toxicology cases, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you give us an approximation of how many times?

MS. MAZZOLA: Five to seven.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when she told you that you were going to be needed in court, how much time went by between then and when you actually showed up in court?

MS. MAZZOLA: Probably not more than 10 minutes or so.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did she tell you what case it was going to be on?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. She said the case. So--

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So you figured it was this?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And you didn't have any advanced warning before she called that you were going to be testifying?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you got to court, what happened?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was led up--well, I should say led down to the ninth floor, and Mr. Matheson was coming out.

MR. GOLDBERG: Hold on for a second. And who is Mr. Matheson?

MS. MAZZOLA: He was the serology supervisor at the time.

MR. GOLDBERG: So he was coming out of where?

MS. MAZZOLA: Out of the courtroom.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what happened?

MS. MAZZOLA: And he asked me if I had my notes, a binder, and I said, "What notes?" So he gave me his binder of notes and I was brought in.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you have any opportunity to review Mr. Matheson's notes before you went into the courtroom?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you know how his binder was organized?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you were brought in, were you brought in for the purposes of testifying?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you--were you called by the Defense or Prosecution?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was called by the Defense.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you have an opportunity to discuss with the Defense beforehand what questions they were going to be asking you?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Or discuss any aspect of the case with the Prosecution in advance?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: So you were a criminalist I and you're testifying on the Simpson case. You didn't have a chance to speak with the questioner in advance or review your notes. How did you feel?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor. Leading.

THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: How did you feel at that moment in time? Were you nervous?

MS. MAZZOLA: Nervous and thoroughly alone.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And had you had occasion even to think about the case mentally in trying to go through and remember what had happened prior to getting up on the witness stand?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor. Assuming she had an opportunity to.

THE COURT: Overruled. Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were you regularly thinking about the case prior to then?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I wasn't.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, at the Griffen hearing, were you asked some questions regarding who collected what at the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to ask you some questions on page 735 of the transcript, lines 12 through lines 26.

MR. NEUFELD: Just one moment, your Honor. May I have one moment, your Honor?

THE COURT: Certainly.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, may we approach the bench for a moment, please?

THE COURT: Excuse me. Yes. With the court reporter.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do I need to bring the transcript?

THE COURT: Yes.

(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)

THE COURT: All right. We're over at the sidebar. Mr. Neufeld.

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, my concern is, I understand--

THE COURT: Keep your voice down.

MR. NEUFELD: Sorry. I understand it's perfectly proper to try to diminish the sting of Defense argument when presenting these up on direct examination, but I would object to his use of--actually impeaching the witness with prior testimony which is inconsistent with the testimony she just gave on direct examination at this time. I don't believe that's an appropriate thing to be done on direct examination.

THE COURT: Well--

MR. GOLDBERG: In California it is.

THE COURT: Do you have any case authority for that, counsel?

MR. NEUFELD: To be quite honest, that's the law in both the two jurisdictions in which I practice. I'm not familiar with what the law is in California on that particular point.

THE COURT: California would follow the modern and federal law. Any party can impeach any witness including their own.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have your transcript?

MR. NEUFELD: Can I have an offer of proof what he intends to read?

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you want me to read the--

THE COURT: No. Just tell me the general area.

MR. GOLDBERG: The offer of proof is, she said that she selected all the stains at Bundy, and it's a little bit ambiguous in relationship to what she said here.

MR. NEUFELD: It's not ambiguous. It contradicts it.

THE COURT: Okay. All right. At this point, the objection is overruled.

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Actually, I'll start on 734, line 27 through 735, line 26.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are you ready counsel? Do you have that?

MR. NEUFELD: What line? I am sorry.

MR. GOLDBERG: 27.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: "Question: And which--I am sorry. At Bundy again, were there certain stains that you collected and other stains that were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: Yes. "Question: And which bloodstains were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: I believe he collected the red stains that were near the shoeprints that were made on the walkway. "Question: Would you please look at your notes and tell me which numbers those are? "Question: And when you say that, you say he collected the actual foot shoeprints where he collected alleged drops that were near the shoeprints? "Answer: He, if I remember correctly, took swatchings of the red stains that were constituting the footprint itself. "Question: Can you tell us which ones those were, please? "Answer: Property items 55 and 56. "Question: And that is it? "Answer: Yes. "Question: All other bloodstains at the Bundy crime scene were collected by you, ma'am? "Answer: Yes." Do you recall that testimony?

MS. MAZZOLA: Somewhat.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And since testifying at this hearing, was there an occasion when you and Dennis Fung went over the crime scene identification checklist again to try to make notations as to who physically collected which items?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to hearsay.

THE COURT: Excuse me. Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And have you since had an occasion to think about yourself what happened at the scene and who did what?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you in fact do, other than on stain 55 and 56, the shoeprints, most of the physical swatching on the other stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: Most of the physical swatching, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And since then, have you come up with the two recollections that you testified to on stain 47 and the item with the berry?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, at the time that you testified at this Griffen hearing, did you believe that all of the photographs taken of the bloodstains had rulers in them or scales in them?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe that they had, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What made you think that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because I had seen the photographer lay down a scale on one of the drops. So I assumed that he was going to do it for all of them.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you since look at the crime--have you since had an opportunity to review the crime scene photographs?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Have you had an opportunity to review the crime scene photographs before testifying at the Griffen hearing?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: And in reviewing the crime scene photographs, did you see a scale in every single one of the photographs?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I did not.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. I'd like to direct your attention to an exhibit that we've previously marked as Defense 1081.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: And it's page 2. This is the crime scene identification checklist, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. NEUFELD: What's this of?

MR. GOLDBERG: Bundy.

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, do you recognize this to be part of the crime scene identification checklist for Bundy?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And whose handwriting is on that list?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mine.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, do you see the notation that says was this scene--excuse me--"Has this scene been altered. If so, by whom and how"?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you write that question mark in there or did someone else do it?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why did you do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because at the time, I did not know if the scene had been altered. It was an assumption that it had because the Coroners were there.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, is it your understanding as a criminalist that you have a responsibility or that the criminalist has a responsibility to make inquiries of anyone in terms of whether the scene was altered?

MS. MAZZOLA: The criminalist really does not do any investigative work.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. But does the criminalist talk to the investigating officer?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So would the criminalist perhaps ask questions about what happened prior to their arrival on the scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: But when you say "Investigative work," what are you talking about when you use that term?

MS. MAZZOLA: Actually talk to the individual people to find out if they personally had moved anything, where they had been.

MR. GOLDBERG: You mean, in terms of a more formal witness interview?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do the criminalists do that at Los Angeles Police Department?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. Now, I would like to talk about some of the items that were collected in and around the caged-off area at the Bundy location and first the glove. I think it's People's 164.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Excuse me. It's 77-a for identification. Your Honor, maybe I can just put a piece of butcher paper down on the little table over there so we can take this out.

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, I would like you to, after putting the gloves on, remove People's 77 and describe what you're doing for the record.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. Do you have a knife or--

THE COURT: Do you have a preference?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. Thank you. I'm opening the sealed envelope. I am removing a paper bag and I'm opening the bag and removing the glove.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, do you recognize any of the writing on that paper bag?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Whose writing is that?

MS. MAZZOLA: It looks like most of it is my writing.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And is that the paper bag into which the glove was placed at the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, have you had an opportunity to look at some videotapes showing yourself collecting a glove and also cap at the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Prior to seeing those videotapes, did you have an independent recollection of who collected those items?

MS. MAZZOLA: I knew that I collected most of the items in that area.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you recall specifically who collected the glove prior to viewing the videotape?

MS. MAZZOLA: Specifically, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Did the viewing of the videotape refresh your recollection?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, prior to this crime scene--well, let me back up for a second. When did you actually start taking the criminalistics courses at school, the criminalistics portions of your formal education?

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, let's see. 1987, 1988, somewhere in there.

MR. GOLDBERG: So had you been involved in the forensics science community then for approximately six years or so prior to collecting this glove?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection. Leading.

THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: How long have you been involved in the scientific community prior to collecting this glove?

MS. MAZZOLA: I had contact with them since beginning my forensics courses at school.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that was how many years?

MS. MAZZOLA: Six, seven, somewhere around there.

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, object and move to strike. It's totally irrelevant whether she had contact.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. GOLDBERG: And can you show us now the technique that is used to collect a piece of evidence such as this glove by placing it back in the bag? I know it's sort of wrinkled, but maybe you can do it for us.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. After the photo id number is written on the bag corresponding to the number given the glove, the bag is opened and you want to pick up the glove in a secured grip, but touching as small an area as possible. I'll just put it in and fold the bag closed securely and that's it (Indicating).

MR. GOLDBERG: That's all there is to it?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's all there is to it.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you feel qualified to do that after being involved in the forensics science community for about six years?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor. Irrelevant whether she felt qualified.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, I would like to show you People's next exhibit, I think it's 78. It's the cap.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yeah.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and the witness.)

THE COURT: All right. You want to place that back in the envelope?

(The witness complies.)

THE COURT: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you now retrieve People's 78 for identification and show us what you're doing?

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. Removing the paper bag from the envelope, opening the bag and retrieving the hat.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: And what is that item?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is a knit watch cap.

MR. GOLDBERG: And who recovered that from the location?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recognize the writing that's on the packaging?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Whose is that?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's my writing.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. You can replace that, describe what you're doing for the record.

MS. MAZZOLA: Thank you (Witness complies.)

THE COURT: People's 78's been replaced. Mr. Goldberg.

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, does there appear to be any trace evidence or anything that was left on that butcher paper?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't see anything.

MR. GOLDBERG: Perhaps we can just dispose of it then.

THE COURT: There's a trash can right beside you.

MS. MAZZOLA: Thank you.

THE COURT: Mr. Goldberg.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to now show you a videotape we previously marked as Defense 1083 for identification and then I'll ask you some questions about it.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Could we have the lights dimmed a little bit? I think we can get better resolution that way.

(At 11:02 A.M., Defendant's exhibit 1083, a videotape was played.)

(At 11:04 A.M., the playing of the videotape was concluded.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now--

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, did Defense 1083 depict you at the crime scene collecting some evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it does.

MR. GOLDBERG: What were you collecting in that tape?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was collecting the hat and glove at Bundy.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you change gloves in-between collecting the hat and the glove?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Why not?

MS. MAZZOLA: The hat and the glove at Bundy were touching each other. They were not in two completely separate areas. They were in physical contact with each other.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And when you were at a crime scene and collecting evidence, is it your habit to, if you see something on your gloves or see some blood or trace on your gloves, to change them?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So the glove and the hat were in close proximity?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, I'd like to show you another exhibit that's been marked as People's 192 for identification and then I would like to ask you some questions about that.

(Brief pause.)

(At 11:05 A.M., People's exhibit 192, a videotape, was played.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. If you can stop for just a second.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to direct your attention to the dark area that is in approximately the middle of the screen.

MR. GOLDBERG: And for the record, this is just shortly after Mr. Fung put down an item and then disappeared up the steps. He's no longer depicted in this frame.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Let's continue. Maybe we can stop for just a second.

MR. GOLDBERG: We've stopped on a card that I think says 103 and it appears to depict part of the glove on the left side of the screen and part of the knit cap on the right side of the screen; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is this what you were referring to when you were saying they were in close proximity?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why is that significant?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, any trace that I think would be moved from one to the other if you hadn't changed gloves and they were not in such close proximity, that would be more of a concern than if they were side by bide like that (Indicating).

MR. GOLDBERG: And is this where they were at the time that you first saw them?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you collected them?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Let's continue. Let's stop for a second.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now we have a photograph that has three evidence cards in it. Did you place those evidence cards down or did someone else do it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Someone else.

MR. GOLDBERG: And who was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: And does this photograph depict the envelope and the glove and the watch cap--excuse me--the cap after the three evidence cards were placed down?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Let's continue. Now if we can stop for just a second.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you see that dark area that I directed your attention to on the first frame that we stopped on?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And now for the record, we're on a frame at the end of this collage that has a crime scene tape across the upper portion of the screen, your Honor.

THE COURT: Yes. It appears to be the step area, appears to be Mr. Fung wearing booties on the second and third steps.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.

(At 11:08 A.M., the playing of the videotape was concluded.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to the area, the dark area that I directed your attention to, do you know what that was?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was it the glove?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you ever see the glove in any location while you were at the scene other than as depicted in the still photography you saw?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, I'd like to direct your attention to an item that we've marked as People's 32 for identification and also 191 for identification.

MR. GOLDBERG: May I approach the witness?

THE COURT: You may.

MR. GOLDBERG: I'm showing you People's 32 for identification. Do you recognize what is in this envelope or this plastic baggie rather?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is that?

MS. MAZZOLA: That appears to be the envelope that was found at Bundy.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recognize any of the writing on the packaging?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Whose is that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Some of it is mine.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who wrote item no. 39 on there? Is that your writing?

MS. MAZZOLA: That appears to be my writing.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what about 104?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's mine.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is 104 the photo?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And directing your attention to People's 191 for identification, is this the same type of bag that is used in the Scientific Investigation Division?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, did you package at the scene the eyeglass envelope, the bloody envelope into the packaging material, the paper bag that has the photo id and item number id on it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: How did you do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: I picked up the envelope wearing gloves in a small relatively clean area and placed it in the bag and folded down the top.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And is the bag that it's placed in appear to be the same type that I've just given you, the fresh one?

MS. MAZZOLA: Just--yeah. Brown paper bag.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, perhaps we can see the clip of the tape that's previously been marked as Defense 1082.

(At 11:12 A.M., Defendant's exhibit 1082, a videotape, was played.)

MR. GOLDBERG: I want you to look--have we already--maybe we can back it up again--very closely at the item that's being passed between yourself and Mr. Fung. Maybe we can just see that again. Do you see that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. We're stopping at frame 13:24:24.

MR. GOLDBERG: It's a little blurry. Okay. Fine. That's fine. Is that the entire tape?

(The playing of the videotape continued.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you get a chance to take another look at that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. I caught a glimpse of it.

MR. GOLDBERG: What?

MS. MAZZOLA: I caught a glimpse of it.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Have you seen this before?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: This footage? And is that item the bloody eyeglass envelope?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Would you hand a bloody eyeglass--a bloody piece of evidence to Mr. Fung?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection. Speculation.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: If he wasn't wearing gloves?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. Absolutely not.

MR. GOLDBERG: Why not?

MS. MAZZOLA: He wasn't wearing gloves, plus I was the one that was packaging the evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Do you know in what way Mr. Fung and you were working together at this time in terms of the evidence collection in this area? I'm referring to Defense 1082.

MS. MAZZOLA: I was the one that was in the caged-in area picking up the larger items of evidence. Mr. Fung was handing me the bags, taking the bags from me as I was handing them out.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know--why was it that the two of you didn't work in the cage simultaneously?

MS. MAZZOLA: At that point, there were other pieces of evidence inside that had to be picked up and there was not enough room for both of us to be in there without running the risk of hurting some of the evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So only one of you was in there?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that was you?

MS. MAZZOLA: That was me.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why is it that you would not hand an un-gloved criminalist a bloody piece of evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: I wouldn't hand anybody anything bloody if they were not wearing gloves.

MR. GOLDBERG: But is it for health reasons or--

MS. MAZZOLA: Personal protection, right.

MR. GOLDBERG: What kinds of problems are you now concerned of, about as a criminalist in terms of dealing with biological evidence at a crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: Today, we have various types of hepatitis, we have HIV, we have aids, we have all kinds of things that are showing up in biologicals.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are criminalists in general pretty sensitive about the health issues that are involved in collecting biological evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Very, very mindful of it.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.

(At 11:15 A.M., the playing of the videotape was concluded.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, do you recall at the Bundy location seeing any stains on a rear gate on the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: I honestly don't even remember a rear gate.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Do you remember having a walk-through with a detective at the beginning of your collection procedure?

MS. MAZZOLA: I remember starting on a walk-through, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know whether you went all the way back as--well, do you know where the rear gate is now?

MS. MAZZOLA: Now I do, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: How?

MS. MAZZOLA: From photographs, video.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. When you went through the walk-through, did you go back as far as the rear gate?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did Mr. Fung continue on with the walk-through?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, he did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Without you? Okay. And at the Bundy location, did any of the blood drops on the area that we've referred to as the trail appear to have been stepped in?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Approximately what time did you leave the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, it was approximately 3:15 or so, 3 o'clock, 3:15.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And where did you go after you left?

MS. MAZZOLA: We went back to Rockingham.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you take the crime scene truck?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what would you have done with the gloves that you had been wearing at the Bundy location when you left?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were taken off and put in the trash bag.

MR. GOLDBERG: Before you left, did you do the same evidence inventory procedure that you've described?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do you have--are you--do you have an independent recollection of exactly where that took place?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not an exact recollection. I have an idea where it took place, but I can't be absolutely positive.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was it outdoors?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was outdoors, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us in terms of being towards the front of the Bundy location? By that, I mean the Bundy side or to the rear towards the alley side?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was up front.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. What time did you return to the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Probably around 3:30 or so.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have any notes with you that you can use to give us the time that you collected the first item of evidence once you returned to Rockingham in the afternoon?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us? Do you have it memorized or do you need something?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't have it memorized.

MR. GOLDBERG: Please tell us what you are referring to to give us that information.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. I'm referring to the evidence collection sheet.

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, I am sorry. I'll object. I would say there has to be a proper foundation laid before she refreshes her recollection. She hasn't done that.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. This says 1540.

MR. GOLDBERG: So that's 3:40?

MS. MAZZOLA: 3:40.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was the notation as to the time in your handwriting or Mr. Fung's?

MS. MAZZOLA: My handwriting.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you made that notation, how did you do it? Did you ask someone or look at your watch or what?

MS. MAZZOLA: I think I just glanced at my watch.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And this first item was stain no. 11?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Which was on which side of the house?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was on the side of the house near the garage, on that end of the house.

MR. GOLDBERG: That little narrow walkway area?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that's outdoors?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's outdoors.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, I would like to direct your attention back to some testimony at the Griffen hearing on page 758. Well, actually 757, line 25 through 758, line 4.

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry? What lines?

MR. GOLDBERG: Line 25 and 758 to line 4.

THE COURT: Do you have that, Mr. Neufeld?

MR. NEUFELD: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: At the Griffen hearing, did you give the following answers to the following questions? "Question: And what time did you get back to Rockingham was it? "Answer: Right around 4 o'clock, somewhere in there. "Question: How do you know it was about 4 o'clock? "Answer: Because of the time that is noted that we collected the sample in the foyer." Do you remember giving that testimony?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So was this testimony that you got back there at 4 o'clock correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why did you testify that way?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because I was--just had a chance to glance at the notes as I was testifying.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, I would like to read you another passage that occurred just previously to that on page 757.

MR. GOLDBERG: Counsel, it's lines 12 through 15. 757, 12 through 15.

THE COURT: Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Just previously to that, did you give the following answer to this question? "Question: So as soon as you got back to Rockingham, the first thing that you did was walk inside and lift item no. 12? "Answer: After it was photographed." Do you recall that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So was item no. 12 in fact the first item that you collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: So why did you think that item no. 12 was the first thing that you collected and that it was at 4 o'clock?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because as I said, I was just going off of the notes. I didn't have time to go through them and refresh my memory and I looked at the wrong line.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you--didn't you see no. 11 at that time when you were testifying at the Griffen hearing and looking over the crime scene identification checklist?

MS. MAZZOLA: I honestly don't remember.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. But based upon the crime scene identification checklist, was item no. 11 in fact the first stain that you collected in the afternoon?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And who did the physical collection on that?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, did you in fact collect a stain no. 12 in the foyer area of Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Perhaps we can see People's 169, which is the interior Rockingham map.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you see this, Miss Mazzola? Directing your attention to the photographs on this exhibit that are labeled with photograph numbers--photograph no. 12 and the call out line, do those depict where this item was collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it does.

MR. GOLDBERG: And this was the first interior item?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And who did the physical collection in terms of the swatching of this item?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was Mr. Fung watching you on this item?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, he was.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, after collecting this item from the foyer area, where did you go in the location?

MS. MAZZOLA: We started making our way upstairs looking as we were going for any items of evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: So you collected downstairs first before going upstairs?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you got upstairs, did you go to the master bedroom area of the house?

MS. MAZZOLA: We did go there.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you see the item that's contained in photographs 13?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And where were they?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were at the foot of the master bedroom bed.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And did you also see the item that's depicted in the photographs that are labeled 14?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what are you doing in this photograph?

MS. MAZZOLA: That--

MR. GOLDBERG: Photograph that shows you holding a q-tip.

MS. MAZZOLA: That is a simple presumptive test for blood.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that the phenolphtalein test?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, if you look closely at that photograph, in the upper right-hand corner, you can see that there is some clothing on the ground. Can you see that? It's right behind the shower door. No. The one that has you doing the presumptive test.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: The one that has photograph no. 14.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall how that clothing got there?

MS. MAZZOLA: One of the detectives was looking through the clothing.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that while you and criminalist Fung were in this master bathroom, master bedroom area?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: And prior to this detective looking at this item, where was the clothing?

MS. MAZZOLA: The clothing was in a clothes hamper. You can't really see that.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. That's fine. You can resume the witness stand.

MS. MAZZOLA: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: So when the detective took the items out of the hamper, did he ever put them back in the hamper that you saw or did he just leave them on the floor?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if he put them back or not.

MR. GOLDBERG: But he did--but he did take them out and put them on the floor?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. You can take that down.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know how the towels got on the floor?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, after collecting item no. 12, what was the next item number that you collected, that was collected in your presence?

MS. MAZZOLA: May I check my notes?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.

(Brief pause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: After item 12, item 13 was picked up.

MR. GOLDBERG: And after item no. 13, what was picked up?

MS. MAZZOLA: Item 14.

MR. GOLDBERG: And who physically collected item no. 13?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: What time was item no. 14 collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately 1640.

THE COURT: And the record should reflect that Miss Mazzola is referring to her notes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And were you referring to the crime scene identification checklist?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, is there a time for 13 on that list or is it just 12 and 14?

MS. MAZZOLA: Just 12 and 14.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I would just like to clarify something before I ask my next question.

THE COURT: Yes. At the sidebar with the court reporter, please.

(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberg, what do you need to clarify?

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I know on 15 and 16, the airline ticket and the baggage claim--

THE COURT: Oh, no, not this again.

MR. GOLDBERG: That's why I wanted to approach, so I can make sure I'm not going to go--we've had testimony there was a 15 and 16 collected at 5 o'clock, but that's it, which from my view, it sort of went beyond the Court's--

MR. SCHECK: What do you want to do? Maybe we won't have any objection. Just tell us what you want to do.

MR. GOLDBERG: I was just going to ask her when 15 and 16 were collected, not ask what they were.

MR. NEUFELD: We have no objection.

THE COURT: Just that one question.

MR. GOLDBERG: I should have brought the transcript up with me, but there's some inconsistent statements she makes regarding when she left the location. She thought it was shortly after 5:00, and it's based on the time of the collection of 15 and 16. There's reference in that transcript to collectively 15 and 16, the airline ticket. My proposal would be simply not to read that, redact that out.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: Does the transcript--Hank, does the transcript refer to where it was collected from though?

MR. GOLDBERG: Uh-uh. I don't think it does.

MR. NEUFELD: I mean--

MR. GOLDBERG: If it does, if it refers to anything else--

MR. NEUFELD: No. I'm saying it's fine to bring out the location. In fact, just to take care of it now, if you don't bring it out, we will bring it out later on. Just items were collected in the bathroom and items were collected on the bench outside the front door.

THE COURT: Okay. If they have no objection.

MR. GOLDBERG: I don't know. I mean if it wasn't suppressed, it wasn't suppressed. But if it were suppressed, it's suppressed.

THE COURT: No. What happened was, there was an agreement the People were not going to offer it rather than it being suppressed. But the objection has to be made by the Defense to suppress it or otherwise keep it out. If they have no objection, then I assume we can talk about it.

MR. NEUFELD: It's basically our decision--frankly, the way it was brought out on two separate occasions by the People as part of their direct case created an impression upon the jurors now there's something we're trying to hide rather. So it's only under that kind of pressure that we feel compelled to, you know, simply say where those items were.

THE COURT: Keep your voice down. But it's a tactical decision on your part. So if that's your decision, that's fine with me.

MR. SCHECK: In terms of the location and the item numbers.

THE COURT: Right. Location and item numbers. That's correct. And then you intend on going into time and we're agreed you will just read the part that says item 15 and 16, not what they are, correct?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes. May I just have one moment?

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

THE COURT: Okay. Done.

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: These are the most educational sidebars so far. All right. Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Thank you. All right. And was there an item no. 15 and an item no. 16 that were collected? And just answer that yes or no.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what time were those items collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: I thought at approximately 5 o'clock.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And that was according to your crime scene identification checklist?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: May I just have one moment, your Honor?

THE COURT: Certainly.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

MR. GOLDBERG: And can you tell us the location of where, using your crime scene identification checklist, these two items were located, just the location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: First of 15 and then of 16.

MS. MAZZOLA: 15 was collected in a downstairs bathroom trash can, 16 was collected from a bench outside the front door.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, I'd like to show you another tape that we've marked as People's 186 and then I'm going to ask you some questions about it. If you'd take a look at it.

THE COURT: Is this from Rockingham?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yeah. It's the beta tape from Rockingham.

(At 11:37 A.M., People's exhibit 186, a videotape, was played.)

MR. GOLDBERG: If we could just stop for one second. We're at frame 17:11.

MR. GOLDBERG: So if we assume that this is correct, this would be 5:11?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And in this scene, what are you and criminalist Fung doing?

MS. MAZZOLA: We are putting items of evidence in the back of the crime scene truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: And would these be the items of evidence that you had collected in the afternoon at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, are you placing anything in addition to the evidence itself in the truck at this time?

MS. MAZZOLA: Our kits.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what are your kits?

MS. MAZZOLA: They are two cases that contain things we need to pick up evidence, package it at the scene.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do those contain all of your packaging materials?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, they do.

MR. GOLDBERG: And in addition to the bags, the brown paper bags that we've seen, what other kinds of packaging materials do you have?

MS. MAZZOLA: Plastics, bags, coin envelopes of varying sizes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So at this point in time, those items are being placed in the rear of the crime scene truck?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And would this have been after you did the inventory for the afternoon items?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know where physically that inventory took place?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know for sure, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Let's continue.

THE COURT: All right. Just for the record, that's 17:11 actually and 50 seconds because there's a lot in between.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Thank you, your Honor. If you could just stop for another second. So this is 17:11:57:02 that we're looking at.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you just lock the crime scene truck?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So at this time, where is all of the evidence that was collected from the morning at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: In the back of the truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: And all of the evidence that was collected at Bundy?

MS. MAZZOLA: In the back of the truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what about the evidence that was collected in the afternoon?

MS. MAZZOLA: In the back of the truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Let's continue. If we could stop for just a second. I have another--I have a question.

MR. GOLDBERG: And the crime scene identification checklist that we've been referring to, where is that at this time as you and Mr. Fung are walking away from the--

MS. MAZZOLA: That is also on the back of the truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: Let's continue. Let's stop for a second. We've just stopped at 17:17:10:24.

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, have you had an opportunity to look at this tape before?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I have.

MR. GOLDBERG: And have you had an opportunity to take a look, a close look at the item that Detective Vannatter is holding in his hands?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What does that appear to be?

MS. MAZZOLA: It appears to be the gray envelope that--at least in toxicology, that our samples arrive at the lab in, be it urine or blood.

MR. GOLDBERG: You say in toxicology you see these envelopes?

MS. MAZZOLA: Every day.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would just like to show you what we've marked previously as People's 163-h for identification.

MR. GOLDBERG: If I may approach.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you show us the--hold up the envelope of the type that you work with every day in serology--excuse me--in toxicology?

MS. MAZZOLA: It's this one (Indicating).

MR. GOLDBERG: She's referring to the darker of the gray envelopes.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. Let's continue. Let's just stop for a moment.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you're working with these envelopes in toxicology every day, are these the kinds of envelopes that are used to contain suspects' blood?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Or urine?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Let's continue. Okay. Let's stop for a second. We've just stopped at 17:20:57:02.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, before we stopped, did you see two shots or two segments showing some activity in the foyer area of the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know where you were when that was occurring?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was in the living room sitting down.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And did--what was it that appeared to be in Mr. Fung's hands in this videotape?

MS. MAZZOLA: It appeared to be--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor, as to what her opinion of what appears in the videotape when she's not even present and her opinion is no better than the jurors.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: It appears to be an envelope similar to the gray envelope.

MR. GOLDBERG: And at this time, did either you or Mr. Fung have any of the packaging materials that you--from your crime scene truck from the kits?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor. She wasn't present. She can't say what Mr. Fung had.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

THE COURT: Let me see counsel without the reporter at sidebar, please.

(A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: Thank you. Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was there any other item of evidence that you collected or saw being collected after 5:11?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: That was consistent with those shots?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Can we continue now? Let's just stop for a second.

MR. GOLDBERG: Have you had the opportunity to see this portion of the tape where you and Mr. Fung are leaving the location prior to today?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And for the record, we've stopped on 17:42:54:13.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, did you have the opportunity when you looked at this tape to look at the amount of heft or size of whatever is in the plastic bag?

MS. MAZZOLA: After viewing the tapes, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And was there anything that you collected or was collected in your presence after 5:11 that was consistent with that other than the analyzed evidence envelope?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Foundation?

MR. NEUFELD: First of all, it's a leading question.

THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question. The jury is to disregard the answer.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you collect anything or was anything collected in your presence after 5:11 that was consistent with the size of what was in that envelope--excuse me--bag?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you were carrying the bag out--well, strike that.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Let's continue.

(At 11:50 A.M., the playing of the videotape was concluded.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, you said after the Griffen hearing, you had a conversation with Mr. Fung where you went over to collect--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to that he went over and had a conversation.

THE COURT: Overruled. That's already been testified to.

MR. GOLDBERG: --where you went over, what had been collected and who did it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you remember any conversation about item no. 17, the vial of blood?

MS. MAZZOLA: I honestly can't remember if we had a conversation or not.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did that in your mind appear to be a significant incident, the circumstances surrounding the collection of or the receipt of that item?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Why didn't it seem to be significant?

MS. MAZZOLA: The laboratory receives samples of suspect's blood or urine all the time. It was nothing unusual.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you make it a point when you were getting ready to leave the Rockingham location after 5 o'clock to make a mental note of everything that was happening and the sequence in which it was happening?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not really, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: Or make a mental note of the time that things were happening after 5 o'clock?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not really, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you have any idea that those circumstances were going to be raised as issues later on in a case?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I'd like to read from the Griffen hearing transcript. It's at page 762.

THE COURT: At what line, counsel?

MR. GOLDBERG: It's line 1 on 762 through line 7 on 763.

THE COURT: Mr. Neufeld?

MR. GOLDBERG: I didn't hear what he said.

MR. NEUFELD: I said I'm reading.

THE COURT: He's reading.

MR. GOLDBERG: I want to ask you whether at the Griffen hearing you gave the following answers to the following questions. "Question:" Oh, excuse me. At 761, line 25, where it starts: "Question: And what happened? What time did you finally leave Rockingham for the second time? "Answer: Let me check my notes. Approximately 1700 hours. "Question: That's the time that you left Rockingham approximately? "Answer: Approximately. "Question: Can you just tell me what the source of that approximation is, ma'am? "Answer: From one of the last items that was picked up on our way out. "Question: And which item was that that was the last item picked out? "Answer: It was sample item 16. "Question: And what time was it picked up? "Answer: Approximately 1700 hours.

"Question: And is it your recollection, ma'am, that as soon as you picked up that item, that you and Mr. Fung left the premises? "Answer: It was a little bit after that. "Question: When you say a little bit after, do you mean five minutes or are we talking about as much as half an hour? "Answer: Not as much as half an hour. "Question: So it'd just be a few minutes? "Answer: Yes. "Question: Were you with Mr. Fung the entire time after you picked up that last item at 1700 hours until you departed for your next destination? "Answer: I believe I was. Yes. "Question: And was anything else, was any other evidence collected after that last item before you actually left Rockingham? "Answer: No. "No other item? "Answer: No. "No other items were logged in? "No." Do you remember that testimony?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, why did you testify that you left at approximately 1700 hours at the Griffen hearing?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because that's what I thought the time was after we picked up the last two items that I personally saw.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you were referring to something at the Griffen hearing, when you testified to that, what were you referring to?

MS. MAZZOLA: As to where I got the time or--

MR. GOLDBERG: Yeah.

MS. MAZZOLA: The crime scene checklist.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And did you look on the crime scene checklist--

MR. GOLDBERG: Perhaps we could have that item. I believe it's 1007. 1107 rather.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Taking a look at the crime scene identification checklist, it's 1107, do you recognize this document?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when was this created? Was this created on the 13th or after the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: After the 13th.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. When you were answering the questions at the Griffen hearing as to when you left, did you look at this page?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: And this page indicates that item no. 17 was recovered at 1720?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's what it says, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that your handwriting, the 1720?

MS. MAZZOLA: The 1720 is, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that's 5:20?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: So had you looked at this page when you were testifying at the Griffen hearing, would you have testified differently?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what would you have testified to?

MS. MAZZOLA: That we--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to what she would have testified to.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. GOLDBERG: Objection as to what?

THE COURT: Speculation. Sustained.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now--now, as to the question that you were asked at the Griffen hearing about your recollection, that as soon as you picked up that item, that you and Mr. Fung left the premises, when you say you think it was a little bit after that, what was that recollection based on?

MS. MAZZOLA: Which item are you--

MR. GOLDBERG: You were asked whether you left after you collected 15 and 16, and you said it was a little bit after that.

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was that recollection based on?

MS. MAZZOLA: The fact that Mr. Fung spent some time talking to the detectives. So it would have been after that.

MR. GOLDBERG: What were you doing in that interval between the time that you got back to the location after locking everything in your crime scene truck and when you came out with the plastic bag?

MS. MAZZOLA: For a short time, I was with Mr. Fung and the detectives and the photographer. After a while, the photographer and I went into the living room and sat down.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what was your mental state at that time?

MS. MAZZOLA: Exhaustion.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you have a clear sense of how much time was going by when you were sitting down on the couch?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you testified that you believed--when you were asked whether you were with Mr. Fung the entire time between 1700 hours until you departed and you said that you believed that you were, what was the basis of that belief?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was--felt like a few minutes. Didn't feel like a long time at all.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, were any other items logged in on the 13th after 15 and 16?

MS. MAZZOLA: As to having been received on the 13th?

MR. GOLDBERG: In other words, on the 13th, did you or Mr. Fung in your presence make any paperwork on the crime scene identification checklist, logging in any item after 16?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that was done on the 14th?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And why was it that that was done on the 14th?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because our checklist was locked in the back of the truck. After we were done and ready to leave Rockingham, we had to get back to the lab to prepare the other evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: At some point after leaving the location for the last time on the 13th, did Mr. Fung say anything to you regarding a vial of blood from the Defendant?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that hearsay?

THE COURT: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: Fine.

THE COURT: Why don't we take our noon recess at this time. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take our recess for the lunch hour. Please remember my admonitions to you; don't discuss the case amongst yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, don't conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you, do not allow anybody to communicate with you with regard to the case. We'll stand in recess until 1:30. Miss Mazzola, you may step down. You are ordered to return at 1:30. All right. Thank you.

(At 12:00 P.M., the noon recess was taken until 1:30 P.M. Of the same day.)

Los Angeles, California; Thursday, April 20, 1995 1:37 P.M.

Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge

APPEARANCES: (Appearances as heretofore noted.)

(Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)

(Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: Good afternoon, counsel. Anything we need to discuss before we invite the jurors to rejoin us?

MR. COCHRAN: I just have a question, your Honor, regarding tomorrow.

THE COURT: Yes, sir.

MR. COCHRAN: Are we going to be in session at all tomorrow afternoon under your current plan?

THE COURT: Not in session.

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. I understand. Thank you.

THE COURT: All right. All right. Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please.

(Brief pause.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. All right. Ms. Mazzola, will you retake the witness stand.

Andrea Mazzola, the witness on the stand at the time of the noon recess, resumed the stand and testified further as follows:

THE COURT: The record should reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good afternoon.

THE COURT: Miss Andrea Mazzola is again on the witness stand on direct examination by Mr. Goldberg. Good afternoon, Miss Mazzola.

MS. MAZZOLA: Good afternoon.

THE COURT: You are reminded you are still under oath.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good afternoon.

DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. GOLDBERG

MR. GOLDBERG: We were talking about when you left the Rockingham location and you were explaining why it was that when you went into the vehicle you didn't continue filling out the crime scene identification checklist and I was unclear on that. What was the reason?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because the identification checklist was in the back of the truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, when you got back to the laboratory approximately what time did you arrive?

MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately 6:30 or so, somewhere in there, quarter after 6:00.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And did you fill out the--continue filling out the crime scene identification checklist then?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was your priority when you were back at the laboratory?

MS. MAZZOLA: The main priority was to get the swatches which were collected at the scenes to be drying.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, I will get into that in just a second, but I wanted to ask a few clarifying questions. When you were sitting on the couch at the Rockingham location, before you left, I guess this would have been after 5:11?

MS. MAZZOLA: Uh-huh.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were your eyes opened or closed?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe they were closed.

MR. GOLDBERG: At what point did you close your eyes?

MS. MAZZOLA: Probably the second I sat down.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you--did you fall asleep?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I wasn't asleep.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you lose track of time when you were sitting on the couch?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were you tired at that point in time?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Why was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because we had been up on our feet working constantly for twelve solid hours.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, you said on direct examination, when I was asking you about collecting the glove and the watch cap--the cap, that they were in close proximity or touching.

MS. MAZZOLA: Uh-huh.

MR. GOLDBERG: Which was it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Reviewing photographs, they were in very close proximity to each other.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. What was the significance again of them being in close proximity?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, since they were so close, chances are that any trace evidence would have been on one, the on other. They were not separated by any great distance to preserve trace evidence, just located on one and not the other.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were they close enough so that you could not foreclose the possibility that at some point they had come into contact?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were that close.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when two items come into contact, is that typically how transfers of trace evidence occur?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you got back to the laboratory and you began the drying process, what role, if any, did you play in the drying process?

MS. MAZZOLA: At first I started helping Mr. Fung by preparing a few of the items for drying, taking them out and putting them in the labeled test-tubes, but he was much faster than I was, so he suggested I just label the tubes for him.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are you familiar with the technique that Mr. Fung uses to remove the swatches from the plastic baggies and put them into the test-tubes?

MS. MAZZOLA: I know which method he uses.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that is that?

MS. MAZZOLA: He places the test-tube near the opening of the mouth of the bag and uses the bag to push the swatches into the test-tube.

MR. GOLDBERG: By manipulating from the outside of the bag?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, do you use the same technique?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. I was not that good. I would use disposable pipettes, glass pipettes and I would put the pipette into the bag and bring the swatches into the test-tube and throw the way the pipette.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you throw away the pipette for each sample?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know whether you did more than one this way?

MS. MAZZOLA: I think I did more than one, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And if you uses the glass pipette on the sample and you then go to the control, do you use the same glass pipette?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: So you use a different glass pipette for the sample and then a different glass pipette for the control?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall exactly how many you did before you stopped doing them?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't.

MR. GOLDBERG: But you think it may have been more than one?

MS. MAZZOLA: More than one, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what did you do after you stopped actually helping out in the drying process by putting the items into the test-tubes?

MS. MAZZOLA: I started labeling the test-tubes for Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: And was he then doing the physical manipulations and getting the swatches from the plastic baggies into the test-tubes?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, he was.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you and Mr. Fung were working together in this process, did you do it in an assembly line fashion with all of the items laid out or was it one at a time?

MS. MAZZOLA: One item was worked on at a time.

MR. GOLDBERG: And after the items were placed in their test-tubes, were they placed in the coin envelope?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. The test-tubes were placed back in the coin envelope.

MR. GOLDBERG: And then where did they go? I mean after this whole process is over where did they go?

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. They were placed in a cardboard box lid lying down single layer. The box lids were then placed in a cabinet which we use just for drying the cloth swatches.

MR. GOLDBERG: And approximately what time would you say you left that evening, if you know?

MS. MAZZOLA: Offhand, I don't know.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. When you left that evening, did you have to take Mr. Fung anywhere?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Where was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: I had to take him back to the firearms section to get his car.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to the next day, June the 14th of 1994, did you enter the evidence processing room that morning?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And for what purpose did you enter the evidence processing room?

MS. MAZZOLA: To go to work. We had to process--finish processing the swatches.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were you present at a time when Mr. Fung removed some evidence from item no. 9, the glove that was found at the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was in the same room, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And were you present later in the morning when Mr. Yamauchi from the crime lab came in and took some samples?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you see how he took the sample?

MR. NEUFELD: Sorry, your Honor, objection. Sample of what? Vague.

THE COURT: Vague. Sustained.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did he take some samples of some of the items that came from the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe he did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did he take them out of the room or work with them in the room?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were worked on in the room.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, that morning did you continue filling out the documentation, specifically the crime scene identification checklist?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: I would like to take another look back at 1107 for identification.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: This is the rear of the field notes that list items 17, 18 and 19 on it.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you find them?

MR. NEUFELD: Yes, thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, directing your attention to this page of the exhibit that has been marked 1107 for identification, do you recognize that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is it?

MS. MAZZOLA: They are notes in my handwriting regarding items 17, 18 and 19.

MR. GOLDBERG: And was this created on the morning of the 14th?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how did it come into being?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung had received item 17--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor. Hearsay. She is not testifying from what she personally observed.

THE COURT: Overruled. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Were you directed to make this document or did you do it on your own?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was directed to make this document.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what were you directed to do?

MS. MAZZOLA: To write down the item numbers and a brief description of what each item number was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that Mr. Fung that told you to do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did he give you any specifics in terms of what form he wanted you to put it on?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not--

MR. GOLDBERG: At this time?

MS. MAZZOLA: At this time, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. So what is it that you wrote it down on?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was the back of the page of the field notes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And are these the items, that you wrote at that time in the morning, down on this page?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: At some point did you show this document to Mr. Fung or did he see it?

MS. MAZZOLA: He saw it.

MR. GOLDBERG: And as a result of that, did you then generate another document?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why did you do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because he wanted it placed on one of the forms that we use, the front face of the field notes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Is the form that we are looking at now an official Los Angeles Police Department form that is used for these purposes or is it just a blank piece of paper on the reverse of--

MS. MAZZOLA: It is just the reverse of a piece of paper.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So he wanted it on what form?

MS. MAZZOLA: On one of the evidence collection sheets.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: I would now like to take a look at will 1107 and it has sample item 18, 17 and 19.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, is this exhibit part of the official crime scene identification checklist type form that you use when you are out in the field generally?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And did you create parts of this exhibit?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you distinguish between the different kind of handwriting on there and tell us which is yours and which isn't?

MS. MAZZOLA: The sample item no. 18, 17, 19, are mine. The "Received--received in serology" under 18 is mine. 17, the location of item "Received from Vannatter" is Mr. Fung's writing. My writing is the writing under the "Item collected" for that item number, and Mr. Fung's writing is "Removed from." Mine is "Item 9" and his is the "Hairs and fibers."

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, did you do this document on your own initially or did Mr. Fung do it together with you?

MS. MAZZOLA: Initially it was mine.

MR. GOLDBERG: And then did you call Mr. Fung's attention to it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you put in the time for item no. 17, 17:20--that is what it says, 17:20, where did you get that from?

MS. MAZZOLA: From Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that 5:20?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: It came from him and not an analyzed--and not an analyzed envelope or another piece of paper?

MS. MAZZOLA: He told me. I don't--that is all I know.

MR. GOLDBERG: And where did you get the time nine o'clock for the "Removed item 9, 19"?

MS. MAZZOLA: That I glanced at the clock while he was working on it.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what about the 8:30 time for the "Received" for item no. 18?

MS. MAZZOLA: That was from Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Were you present when any pair of sneakers was handed over?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: So after you created this document and then brought it to Mr. Fung's attention, what happened?

MS. MAZZOLA: He wanted the numbers--sample item numbers changed.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: He wanted to keep the items in chronological order as they had been received.

MR. GOLDBERG: And based upon your own experience as a criminalist, is there any advantage to doing that in terms of other reports that need to be done, such as property reports?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, when they are kept in chronological order as to the day they were received, on the property reports you can put all of the items received on the same day on the property report. If they were out of order, you would have to generate a new property report for each item.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So was this done in order to cut down on the number of property reports that would be necessary?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, may I approach the witness, so that she can look at the document itself?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: Either counsel, when they are examining or during cross-examination, may approach without asking permission.

MR. GOLDBERG: Directing your attention back to item no. 19, there appear to be some erasures under there. Do you know what was originally said?

MS. MAZZOLA: Let's see. Looks like it is "Hairs and fibers" and then "Found on item no. 9."

MR. GOLDBERG: And now it says, "Removed from item no. 9"?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And the printing that says "Removed from item no. 9"--well, excuse me. The "Removed from," whose printing is that?

MS. MAZZOLA: The removed from is Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: And "Item no. 9"?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is nine.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, what about where it says on item no. 17 "Received from Vannatter," that is Mr. Fung's printing?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did it appear that there were some erasures there and that there was something else there at one time underneath that item?

MS. MAZZOLA: Looks like "Serology SID."

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Do you have any recollection of why that was erased and the other--and "Received from Vannatter" put in there?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe I was trying to put them in the order that Mr. Fung wanted, 17, 18 and 19, and had started to write "Received in serology," meaning the tennis shoes, and Mr. Fung wanted it kept 18 first, then 17 and then 19.

MR. GOLDBERG: And he just changed those item numbers?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right, yeah.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, did Mr. Fung ever tell you anything to the effect of--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to what Mr. Fung--

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, it is not coming in for a hearsay purpose, your Honor.

MR. NEUFELD: May we approach?

THE COURT: Please.

(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)

THE COURT: We are over at the side bar. What is the non-hearsay purpose?

MR. GOLDBERG: Corroborate Mr. Fung's testimony that he never tried to generate a new form which he has already testified to.

MR. NEUFELD: That is--

MR. GOLDBERG: So what she is saying is that Mr. Fung never told me to generate a new form, so there is no declarative statement that it is coming in for the truth of the matter asserted. There is no declarative statement period. What is the statement that it is coming in for the truth? It is the absence of a statement that is coming in.

MR. NEUFELD: First of all, what question was he going to state? Because he started to say something. What was the question you were going to ask?

MR. GOLDBERG: Is did Mr. Fung ever tell you to generate--to throw this document away and generate a new form or to clean up this document up.

MR. NEUFELD: I would object again on hearsay.

THE COURT: All right. Overruled. It is not a statement.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay.

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, did Mr. Fung ever tell you simply to start over again with a new form?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, later in the morning did you and Mr. Fung go to another location to collect additional evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Where was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was at the LAPD print shed.

MR. GOLDBERG: And can you tell us the time that you got there, approximately?

MS. MAZZOLA: May I look at my notes?

MR. GOLDBERG: Sure.

MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.)

MR. NEUFELD: The record should reflect that the witness is refreshing her recollection by looking at her notes right now.

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

THE COURT: Miss Mazzola, which form are you looking at?

MS. MAZZOLA: I am looking at the vehicle search checklist.

THE COURT: All right.

MS. MAZZOLA: It was approximately 10:30.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you arrived at the print shed did you see the Bronco that had been earlier parked in front of the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you see how the Bronco was opened?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: How was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: The Bronco had to be opened by two detectives.

MR. GOLDBERG: Where did they come from?

MS. MAZZOLA: From the burglary auto detail.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how did they do it?

MS. MAZZOLA: They had to use I believe they are called a slimjim to pop the lock.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And after that was done, did you and Mr. Fung then begin collecting evidence from the Bronco?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What role did you play in the evidence collection procedure in terms of the Bronco?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was holding the flashlight, making the sketch, passing him the supplies that he needed.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you say "Supplies," what are you talking about?

MS. MAZZOLA: Coin envelopes, plastic bags, labels, dealing with the item numbers.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Perhaps at this point I could bring up People's 172 for identification.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, I don't know whether you can see this. I would like to draw your attention to one of the call-out lines that does not have a number on it, it is just a red dot, but it hooks up to a photograph that has an item no. 33 and depicts the brake pedals in the Bronco. Do you recognize that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you were at the location did you do any testing on the brake pedals and the gas pedal as depicted in that photograph?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did a phenolphthalein test.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you do that personally or did Mr. Fung do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did that personally.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us what is involved in a phenolphthalein test?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is simply taking a cotton swab, cotton-tipped swab, dampening it with a little distilled water, shaking out the excess, applying the swab to the area, adding a drop of the reagent. If there is no color change, we add a drop of hydrogen peroxide. If it is negative, nothing happens. If it is positive, it turns like a magenta hot pink.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you do that phenolphthalein test for each one of the three pedals that are depicted in the photograph that has the call-out line with no number on it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was the result?

MS. MAZZOLA: May I check my notes?

MR. GOLDBERG: Sure.

THE COURT: All right. Miss Mazzola, could you try to keep your voice up.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you.

(Brief pause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: The phenolphthalein tests were positive.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you collect any stains from that location?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Those three pedals?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did Mr. Fung collect any stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, with respect to the stains that are on this Bronco board, were there additional stains on the Bronco that are not depicted here? If you want to, you can look back on your notes.

MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.) Yes, there were other stains.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. For example, was there a stain no. 21 or 20, rather?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, there was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Where was that located?

MS. MAZZOLA: That was located in the passenger door, near the top edge of the passenger door.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to the stains that we see here that are depicted on this exhibit, let's start with the stain no. 30 and 31, do you recall specifically seeing those or just generally that you know that there were a lot of stains on the Bronco?

MS. MAZZOLA: I--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor, as to the term "A lot."

THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall specifically seeing--let me ask it this way: Do you recall specifically seeing all of the stains that are depicted here, with the exceptions of 304 and 305, rather, or do you--or do you just have a general recollection that you saw stains in there?

MS. MAZZOLA: I have a general recollection I saw stains, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Thank you. You can retake the witness stand.

MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, I would like to show you the vehicle search checklist that has previously been marked as People's 189 for identification. Do you recognize that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is that the documentation that you were filling out while you and Mr. Fung were collecting the stains from the Bronco?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And does that list all of the various stains that were obtained from the Bronco on that date?

MS. MAZZOLA: (no audible response.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Collected, I should say?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you are collecting stains from a vehicle such as this, do you collect every single drop of every single stain in the vehicle?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: What do you do?

MS. MAZZOLA: You--as a normal crime scene, you take your representative sample.

MR. GOLDBERG: And by that do you mean--what do you mean when you say "Representative sample"?

MS. MAZZOLA: You collect samples from the various items in the different locations. You would not collect every single spot. If there were five spots near each other, you would not collect all five spots.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. But let's say that you have--you have a situation where there are ten spots and you decide that you are going to collect six of them. Do you collect as much of those six spots that you decide to collect, as you can?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. But in terms of the--the number of spots, you don't necessarily collect every single spot?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you were watching Mr. Fung doing the collection, did you form any opinion as to whether he was collecting enough of the stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did not form any opinion, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. How well could you see specifically what was going on in terms of the collection that was happening on the console?

MS. MAZZOLA: I could not see very well because it was dark and he was looking for the stains with the flashlight.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you collected these stains in the Bronco with Mr. Fung and they were packaged, did you follow the same procedure that you have described before in terms of the inventory before you are finished?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what did you do with these after you had done the inventory?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were put in paper bags to take with us.

MR. GOLDBERG: Where did you take them?

MS. MAZZOLA: We took them to the lab.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you got back to the lab, did you go through the drying process with these stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, at this drying process was your role different than in the drying process that occurred on the evening of the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: How did it differ?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was more involved with putting the swatches into the individual test-tubes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what technique were you using to do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was using the glass pipettes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what technique was Mr. Fung using?

MS. MAZZOLA: He was manipulating the swatches from the outside.

MR. GOLDBERG: In the way that you have previously described?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And were the two of you working on one item simultaneously or how did that work?

MS. MAZZOLA: We were working on different items, but we were working at separate tables.

MR. GOLDBERG: And again, when you were working on your items, did you do it in an assembly line fashion or one at a time?

MS. MAZZOLA: One at a time.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, after these items were put out to dry, did you participate in the packaging process?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what was the--what did the packaging process involve?

MS. MAZZOLA: You take the dry swatches, you put them in a small paper bindle, which is just a piece of paper, clean paper folded up, put the swatches in, seal it, write the DR number on it, the item number. These go back in the original coin envelopes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you do that in assembly line fashion or one at a time?

MS. MAZZOLA: One at a time.

MR. GOLDBERG: And after the drying process was done on the various items that had been collected on the 13th and 14th, did you participate with Mr. Fung in writing the property reports?

MS. MAZZOLA: He wrote the property reports.

MR. GOLDBERG: He did that?

MS. MAZZOLA: He did that.

MR. GOLDBERG: And on June 16th of 1994 did you see the evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: That morning, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what condition was it in when you saw it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Sealed boxes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So at that time everything that had been collected was sealed up?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you see it actually being brought to the evidence control unit?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that the last time that you had seen it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: May I just have one moment to look at my notes, your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

(Brief pause.)

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. I have no further questions, your Honor.

THE COURT: Mr. Neufeld.

MR. NEUFELD: May we have a ten-minute break to look over some notes?

THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take a brief recess here for about ten minutes. If you will just step back into the jury room. As soon as we reorganize, we will get started again. All right. Let's take ten minutes.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

(Recess.)

(Pages 23816 through 23830, volume 130a, transcribed and sealed under separate cover.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: All right. Good afternoon again, counsel. Anything we need to discuss before we resume? All right. Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please. Mr. Goldberg, I take it you've completed?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes, your Honor.

(The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that we have been rejoined by all the members of our jury panel. Good afternoon again, ladies and gentlemen.

THE JURY: Good afternoon.

THE COURT: Miss Andrea Mazzola is again on the witness stand now on cross-examination by Mr. Neufeld. Good afternoon again, Miss Mazzola.

MS. MAZZOLA: Good afternoon.

THE COURT: You are reminded you are still under oath. Mr. Neufeld.

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, with the Court's permission, it's been a month since Mr. Shapiro introduced me here in the courtroom.

THE COURT: Certainly.

MR. NEUFELD: Ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. My name is Peter Neufeld and it is my pleasure to be one of the lawyers assisting in the representation of Mr. Simpson.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. NEUFELD

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, did you watch any of Dennis Fung's testimony at this trial or hear any of it on the radio?

MS. MAZZOLA: Just bits and pieces.

MR. NEUFELD: And was that at work or at home?

MS. MAZZOLA: At work. I don't watch it at home.

MR. NEUFELD: Do you listen to any of it at home?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: So it's on the television at work though?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And it's on People's radios at work?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And that's at the SID laboratories here?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And other than Dennis Fung's testimony, did you watch or listen to portions of any of the other witnesses' testimony during this trial?

MS. MAZZOLA: Maybe just bits and pieces. I don't make it a practice to listen.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, Dennis Fung had mentioned that the radio and--that the radio was on in different places in the laboratory. Is there a radio in toxicology?

MR. GOLDBERG: That's an improper question.

THE COURT: The question about is there a radio in toxicology is an appropriate question. You can answer that.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, there is.

MR. NEUFELD: And are people in toxicology listening to the trial?

MS. MAZZOLA: Our radio in Tox does not get very good reception. We're lucky if we hear anything at all.

MR. NEUFELD: I understand that. But given the limited reception that you do have, ma'am, are people have--do people in toxicology have it turned to the trial?

MS. MAZZOLA: They try, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And not only in toxicology, but are there other radios in serology for instance?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know what goes on in serology.

MR. NEUFELD: How about in the evidence processing unit? Is there a radio there?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe there is.

MR. NEUFELD: And you said there's also televisions at work?

MS. MAZZOLA: One.

MR. NEUFELD: And is that in the cafeteria?

MS. MAZZOLA: In the lunch room, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And at--in--the televisions in the lunch room, does that also broadcast the trial?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And so employees at SID can come in and watch the trial when they have free time?

MS. MAZZOLA: They can.

MR. NEUFELD: And you've seen bits and pieces of the trial on that television?

MS. MAZZOLA: When I'm in and out of there, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Well, do you ever have your lunch there?

MS. MAZZOLA: I tend to take my lunch when the Court was recessed for lunch.

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry. What?

MS. MAZZOLA: I took my lunch when the Court was taking theirs. I don't like to watch the trial.

MR. NEUFELD: No, no, no. I don't mean--you mean you take your lunch every day at SID at the same time the Court recesses?

MS. MAZZOLA: After the Court is out of session is when I go and eat my lunch or we go out to lunch.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. But there been sometimes when you have seen bits and pieces on the television--

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: --of the trial testimony?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, going back to August, Mr. Goldberg had referred to your testifying at a hearing I believe it's on August 23rd; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: I'm not sure of the exact date.

MR. NEUFELD: All right. Well, the day before you testified, Dennis Fung testified, didn't he?

MS. MAZZOLA: I guess.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, ma'am--

MR. GOLDBERG: Wait a minute. I make a motion to strike the witness' answer.

THE COURT: Overruled. It will stand.

MR. NEUFELD: By Neufeld: Well, ma'am, just calling your attention again to the hearings that took place during that third week in August of 1994, did you hear on the radio or watch some of those hearings on television?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if I did or not.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, this was a case I think you referred to on direct examination when you were called to come over here in early August or in late August as "The case"; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was referred to me as "The case." I don't refer to it as that.

MR. NEUFELD: Fine. But it was a--it was a very high-profile case at the Scientific Investigation Division of the L.A. Police Department; was it not?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.

MR. NEUFELD: And everyone talked about it quite frequently; did they not?

MS. MAZZOLA: They did--really did not talk about it frequently because we were told not to talk amongst ourselves.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, ma'am, let me ask you this. You were one of the only two criminalists who collected the evidence at the two crime scenes at Rockingham and Bundy on those days, right?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: And you were certainly interested in--in the way the--that collection was being depicted or portrayed on television, weren't you?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mildly interested.

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry?

MS. MAZZOLA: A little interested, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And during that time--

MR. NEUFELD: Would you stipulate that Dennis Fung testified on August 22nd?

MR. GOLDBERG: Let me check it for sure. I would. Let me just double-check.

MR. NEUFELD: All right. Well, ma'am, assuming, if you would, Dennis Fung testified on August 22nd, the day before you did, as best you can recall, were you mildly interested in what Dennis Fung had to say about yours and his collection of evidence before a national television audience?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall if I was listening to it or not. I honestly don't recall.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, were you listening--were you listening on August 22nd--I am sorry. Withdrawn. You said earlier that you--the first time you heard that you were needed in court was the morning of August 23rd or the morning that you testified; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

MR. NEUFELD: Were you listening on the television and radio when it was said in open court on the afternoon of the 22nd that your attendance would probably be necessary the next day?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes facts not in evidence.

THE COURT: Overruled. Answer will stand.

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, did anyone call you the afternoon of August 22nd or the evening of August 22nd and say that Defense counsel has requested your presence and you may have to be on the witness stand the following day?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

THE COURT: All right. That does assumes facts that are not in evidence. We don't know what date it was. Sometime in August.

MR. NEUFELD: As an offer for the Court, your Honor, I'm representing when Mr. Fung's testimony was--

THE COURT: Counsel, I know that.

MR. NEUFELD: --and when hers was.

THE COURT: You can ask the question, same answer, "The day before you were called to testify."

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, in preparation for your testimony today, have you reviewed any notes?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And what notes would those be, ma'am?

MS. MAZZOLA: Crime scene notes, I was able to watch some videos, look at some still photography.

MR. NEUFELD: Did you review any transcripts?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And which transcripts did you review?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe it's called a Griffen hearing.

MR. NEUFELD: Whose testimony?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mine.

MR. NEUFELD: Did you review the testimony of any other witnesses from that hearing?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Did you review the testimony of any other witnesses during the course of any other proceedings of this trial or this case?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: And you mentioned that you've also viewed some videotapes?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Approximately how many videotapes have you reviewed?

MS. MAZZOLA: I lost count. I don't know.

MR. NEUFELD: Perhaps dozens?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't think it was dozens, no, not that--

MR. NEUFELD: Perhaps a dozen?

MS. MAZZOLA: Maybe a dozen or less.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And are all those videotapes shown to you by the District Attorney in this case?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Were any of them shown to you by police officers?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, the only time other than at trial where you testified in this case was during that hearing in late August, August 23rd of 1994; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, before you testified in that proceeding, had you met with any District Attorneys concerning your involvement in this case?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: And prior to August 23rd when you testified, had you discussed your involvement in this case with any superiors at LAPD?

MS. MAZZOLA: I do not believe so, no.

MR. NEUFELD: And prior to your testifying and taking the witness stand here on August 23rd, 1994, did you speak to any Defense Attorney?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Did any Defense Attorney suggest to you any answers before you were on the witness stand?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Did any Prosecutor suggest any answers to you before you were on the witness stand on August 23rd?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, since August 23rd, Miss Mazzola, have you had a number of discussions with employees of the Los Angeles Police Department, including the people at SID?

MS. MAZZOLA: I've talked to people at work, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, have you had discussions with them about your involvement in this case?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And let's see. Have you talked to Michelle Kestler?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And who was Michelle Kestler?

MS. MAZZOLA: She is now the laboratory director.

MR. NEUFELD: And on how many different occasions have you talked to the laboratory director Michelle Kestler about your involvement in this case since August 23rd?

MS. MAZZOLA: A few.

MR. NEUFELD: And would those different sessions be in her office?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not necessarily. Out in the hall, passing by, informal.

MR. NEUFELD: Were they all informal?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. Maybe one or two were in her office, which that's about it.

MR. NEUFELD: Those would be more formal?

MS. MAZZOLA: If you want to call it formal.

MR. NEUFELD: And during the one and two--well, just--unless you do.

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, I--

MR. NEUFELD: Okay.

MS. MAZZOLA: --I'm not very formal there, so--

MR. NEUFELD: All right. During the one or two sessions that you had with your boss Miss Kestler in her office, were any other people present?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And who were those people who were present? Well, I'm sorry. Let's start with the first time that you met with Miss Kestler since August 23rd and discussed your involvement in this case.

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, I don't know who was present the first time.

MR. NEUFELD: Were there other people present though?

MS. MAZZOLA: I can't remember. I honestly can't remember.

MR. NEUFELD: Do you know approximately what month it was?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Was it in the fall?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, how about the second time you met with Miss Kestler to discuss your involvement in this case since August 23rd? Who else was with her then?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe Greg Matheson and Collin Yamauchi.

MR. NEUFELD: And do you remember what month that was in?

MS. MAZZOLA: That was just this month. It was very recent.

MR. NEUFELD: And you said there may have been a third time. Was there a third time that you met with Miss Kestler?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know.

MR. NEUFELD: So to your best recollection, it was just two occasions?

MS. MAZZOLA: Two that I can recollect, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: In her office. And the other instances where you discussed this case with her were all more casually in the hallway. Is that your testimony?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was more or less passing, how I'm doing, "Are you ready," that sort of thing.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, aside from Miss Kestler and Mr. Matheson on that one occasion in Miss Kestler's office, have you also discussed your involvement in this case with Mr. Matheson?

MS. MAZZOLA: Separately? Not really, no.

MR. NEUFELD: Have you discussed your involvement in this case since August 23rd with Dennis Fung?

MS. MAZZOLA: We've talked, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, in fact, after you testified on August 23rd, you and Dennis Fung had a long discussion about who did what with respect to collection in this case, didn't you?

MR. GOLDBERG: Vague as to long.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And in fact, during that discussion, it was your testimony of August 23rd which precipitated that meeting between you and Mr. Fung; isn't that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know if it was the testimony that's--

MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, isn't it true that when you had the meeting with Dennis Fung after you testified on August 23rd, he told you that he disagreed with your recollection of what you testified to on August 23rd? Isn't that correct?

MR. GOLDBERG: Calls for hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. NEUFELD: How long after the August 2--I'm sorry. How long after you testified on August 23rd was it that you had this meeting with Dennis Fung?

MS. MAZZOLA: I have no idea.

MR. NEUFELD: And during that meeting with Dennis Fung, didn't he state to you that he had a different recollection than you had--

THE COURT: Sustained. Sustained. "State to you."

MR. NEUFELD: It's not being offered for the truth of the matter asserted, your Honor. It's being offered to show that he stated it. I'm--

THE COURT: Sidebar.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)

THE COURT: We're over at the sidebar. Mr. Neufeld.

MR. NEUFELD: On the contrary, your Honor. I'm certainly not offering the statement to suggest that it happened. I'm offering it as impeachment to suggest that it didn't happen. If I wanted to--as you know, the Defense position is, we're not trying to suggest Dennis Fung's recollection of who did what is correct. I'm suggesting that Miss Mazzola's recollection as she testified to on August 23rd is correct. So to the extent that I am saying that Dennis Fung told her something different than what she testified to and told her he totally disagreed with it, I'm not offering it to prove the truth of what Dennis Fung told her. I'm simply offering it to prove, number one, that he said it, number two, equal importance, to show what effect that had on Miss Mazzola's state of mind.

THE COURT: So what's the exception?

MR. NEUFELD: State of mind of Miss Mazzola. That's why it's being introduced. And secondly, not even--

THE COURT: Keep your voice down.

MR. NEUFELD: Secondly, all right, it's not even hearsay because it's not being offered for the truth of the matter asserted therein.

THE COURT: Mr. Goldberg.

MR. GOLDBERG: How is it going to have any impact on this witness' state of mind--I don't see how--what Dennis Fung's recollections were of the evidence collection procedure. Also, it seems to me counsel shouldn't be allowed to ask leading questions like that unless he has a good faith belief that something like that was actually said. And he doesn't. Otherwise, it should be based on some sort of offer of proof.

MR. NEUFELD: My good faith basis is, Dennis Fung testified that after August 23rd, he had this discussion with her and he made up a list of who collected what, and his recollection was obviously different from her recollection because, as you know, what she just testified to on direct examination as to who collected what is contradicted by her testimony on August 23rd. In fact, he brought it out to try to take--

THE COURT: Phrasing the question as you just stated right now, I'll overrule the objection, which has to do with the fact that Dennis Fung after her testimony went back and went over with her who collected what.

MR. NEUFELD: Right.

THE COURT: You can ask that question.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay.

THE COURT: Did that happen.

MR. NEUFELD: Fine.

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel. You may rephrase the question.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

MR. NEUFELD: After you testified under oath on August 23rd, 1994, Miss Mazzola, when you met with Dennis Fung, didn't he review with you his recollection as to who collected which items at Bundy and Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree, ma'am, that his recollection of who collected which items at Rockingham and Bundy in that meeting were different and contradicted your testimony of August 23rd?

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, still calls for conclusion and hearsay.

MR. NEUFELD: It's her state of mind.

THE COURT: Overruled. You can answer the question.

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know. We talked about who collected what because it seemed like it was going to be a big deal. Rather than us working as a team, they want--

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, this morning, you testified that Dennis Fung collected the drops nos. 4, 5 and 6 at Rockingham; is that correct?

MR. GOLDBERG: I think that misstates the testimony.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: May I check my notes to see which drops are 4, 5 and 6?

MR. NEUFELD: Please do.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And isn't it a fact, Miss Mazzola, that when you testified on August 23rd under oath, you testified that you personally collected every drop at Rockingham?

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, your Honor, I think--

THE COURT: Seize the phone, Deputy Magnera.

MR. GOLDBERG: Could I have a page and line citation?

MR. NEUFELD: One moment.

(Brief pause.)

MR. NEUFELD: Page 698 beginning at line 22.

(Brief pause.)

MR. NEUFELD: May I?

THE COURT: Do you have it, Mr. Goldberg?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. Proceed.

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, you said a moment ago that you testified this morning on direct examination that it is now your recollection that Mr. Fung and not you collected the drops, item nos. 4, 5 and 6; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And just so we can be very clear as to what items 4, 5 and 6 are, may I pull out one of the exhibits?

THE COURT: Certainly.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

THE COURT: Mr. Scheck, you want to assist Mr. Neufeld there?

(Brief pause.)

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, could you please step down from the witness stand with the Court's permission?

THE COURT: Yes. And, Miss Mazzola, would you try to keep your voice up, please. Thank you.

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, would you please point out for the jury so I don't block them where drops 4, 5 and 6 are on the diagram which is People's exhibit 120?

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. 4 is right here.

THE COURT REPORTER: I can't hear you.

MS. MAZZOLA: All right. 4 is right here in the street (Indicating).

MR. NEUFELD: Indicating in photograph a almost directly in front of the number 360 on the curb.

MS. MAZZOLA: 5 is right here in the driveway just outside of the gate (Indicating).

MR. NEUFELD: And by the way, Miss Mazzola, is no. 5 also reflected in photograph a on the driveway?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Could you now tell us where no. 6 is, please?

MS. MAZZOLA: And 6 is right here (Indicating).

MR. NEUFELD: Indicating on photograph c on the same exhibit a card that is toward the rear of item no. 5 and toward the left of another card; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, ma'am, this morning when you testified, you said that it was now your current recollection that items 4, 5 and 6 were collected by Dennis Fung and not by you; is that correct?

MR. GOLDBERG: I think that misstates the testimony, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. NEUFELD: Is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: And isn't it true, Miss Mazzola, that--you can stay there for one minute because I'm going to come back to the board. Now, when you testified on August 23rd--by the way, when you testified on August 23rd, like this trial, it was a proceeding where you testified under oath; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And in fact, when you testified on August 23rd of 1994, it was nearly two months after the incident, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Whereas today, you're testifying almost 10 months after the incident; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And when you testified on August 23rd under oath, were you asked these questions and did you give these answers? "Question: And what items of evidence did you collect, you personally collect at Rockingham during that first visit? "Answer: A red stain on the door of the Bronco and the red stains leading up the driveway to the front of the house." Were you asked that question, did you give that answer?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: You can sit down now.

(The witness complies.)

MR. NEUFELD: And in fact, Miss Mazzola, was it during the meeting you had with Dennis Fung after you testified on August 23rd where he suggested to you that he had collected some of those stains at Rockingham? Did it happen at that meeting?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall if it did or not.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, at that meeting that you had with Dennis Fung, didn't you and he then begin to put notations down on a pre-existing field report?

MS. MAZZOLA: We were making notes, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Well--

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defendant counsel.)

MR. GOLDBERG: It's 1107.

MR. NEUFELD: 1107.

THE COURT: Miss Robertson, do you have 1107?

THE CLERK: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: Would you hand it to Mr. Cochran, please.

(Brief pause.)

MR. NEUFELD: All right. That's fine.

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, do you recognize that document?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: What is it?

MS. MAZZOLA: A collection report.

MR. NEUFELD: Is it the collection report for the items of evidence collected at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And are the items which I just referred to as the drops, the Rockingham drops if you will, are they included on that list?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And are they noted on that list in the left-hand column by either a photo number or an id number?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: All right. And if you now go over to the one, two, three, four, five, six columns, there's a column that says "By"; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And what would go in that column ordinarily would be the initials of the person who actually personally collected the item; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: If at the time it was necessary, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Right. But that's what that column is for, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: If the person collecting the evidence deems it's necessary to put the initials, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: When you filled out this report on that day, that entire column for every single item at Rockingham was left blank; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, when you had the meeting with Dennis Fung, you had a photocopy of this document with you; did you not?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And during the meeting with Dennis Fung, he expressed to you his recollection of which items he collected, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: We were discussing it.

MR. NEUFELD: Did he discuss with you and explain to you his recollection of which items he collected, Miss Mazzola?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And when he did that, he said to you that it's his recollection that he collected items 4, 5 and 6, correct, during that discussion?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, have you had any other discussions with Dennis Fung about which items he collected other than this one meeting that occurred after you testified under oath on August 23rd?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall.

MR. NEUFELD: And when you had this meeting with Dennis Fung, you took notes, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And you made entries in that column where it says "By"; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And for items no. 4, 5 and 6, you put in that column "By Fung"; did you not?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And it's those notes that you made when Dennis Fung spoke to you after August 23rd that you are in partly relying on today when you testify as to who collected what; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: For that column? No.

MR. NEUFELD: You're not--you're not at all relying on those notes to refresh your recollection as to who collected what?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: All right. Are there any documents at all in this case which identify which of you collected which items?

MS. MAZZOLA: On some of the videotapes, it shows who was collecting which items.

MR. NEUFELD: All right. And it shows you collecting a hat and it shows you collecting a glove, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Is there any videotape that you've seen that shows which bloodstains you're collecting as opposed to Mr. Fung?

MS. MAZZOLA: There are a few instances, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And in which videotapes are you referring to? Why don't you tell us what's--which item it shows Mr. Fung collecting.

MR. GOLDBERG: This is really irrelevant, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: The Bundy scene shows me collecting some of the blood, but I know that Mr. Fung also collected some of the blood at Bundy.

MR. NEUFELD: Is there any videotape that shows Mr. Fung collecting any blood at Bundy?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe there's any videotape of him personally collecting any blood.

MR. NEUFELD: Is there any videotape showing Mr. Fung collecting any blood at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: All right. So if there's no videotape showing Mr. Fung collecting the blood at Rockingham, are there any reports that were filled out contemporaneous to this incident where it identifies Mr. Fung as the person who collected blood drops at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Would you please rephrase the question? I--

MR. NEUFELD: Were there any documents filled out contemporaneous to June 13th and June 14th identifying Mr. Fung as the person who was collecting any of the drops at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: So when you testified today, ma'am, in the absence of--I'm sorry. One last question. There's no videotapes, there's no documents. Are there any still photographs showing Mr. Fung collecting any of the blood drops at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: So in the absence of any videotapes, photographs or documents, you're testifying today based on your independent recollection of what transpired back on June 13th; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: The videotapes help me to remember what happened on that morning.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, are there any videotapes at all which show Mr. Fung collecting a single blood drop?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe there is one at Bundy.

MR. NEUFELD: Where Mr. Fung is collecting the blood drop?

MS. MAZZOLA: Uh-huh.

MR. NEUFELD: A moment ago, you--

THE COURT: Excuse me. Excuse me. Is that yes or no?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. NEUFELD: A moment ago, you said that there was no videotape of Mr. Fung collecting any blood drops; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: It shows--

MR. GOLDBERG: That misstates the testimony.

THE COURT: Overruled. Proceed.

MS. MAZZOLA: It shows both of us at one area where blood was collected. It shows me collecting some and it shows Mr. Fung collecting some.

MR. NEUFELD: It shows Mr. Fung actually swatching some at Bundy?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And which drop is that he is collecting at Bundy?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was--let me refer to--

MR. NEUFELD: On the videotape.

MS. MAZZOLA: Right. I need to refer to my notes to--

MR. NEUFELD: Go ahead.

THE COURT: Wait, wait. Miss Mazzola, let Mr. Neufeld finish asking you the question before you start answering. Mr. Neufeld, let her finish answering before you ask the next question.

MR. NEUFELD: Certainly.

THE COURT: Thank you.

(Brief pause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: It's photo id no. 110.

THE COURT: And what are you referring to?

MS. MAZZOLA: I'm referring to the evidence collection sheet.

THE COURT: Mr. Neufeld.

MR. NEUFELD: And do you know what property item that is?

MS. MAZZOLA: 45.

MR. NEUFELD: And that's not one of the Bundy blood drops, is it?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is a blood sample taken from Bundy.

MR. NEUFELD: And where is it taken from at Bundy?

MS. MAZZOLA: On a rail.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, are there any videotapes at all showing Dennis Fung collecting any of the--what has been referred to over and over in this trial as the Bundy blood drops?

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, that's overbroad.

THE COURT: Sustained. Why don't you--

MR. NEUFELD: Is there any videotape at all showing Dennis Fung collecting any of the blood drops that are on the walkway leading to the rear alley at Bundy?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so, none that I've seen.

MR. NEUFELD: And are there any videotapes at all showing Dennis Fung swatching any of the blood drops at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: No videos that I have seen.

MR. NEUFELD: So now focusing on Rockingham, ma'am, there's no videotapes showing Dennis Fung collecting any blood drops there, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: There's no still photographs showing him collecting any blood drops there, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And there's no documents that were made contemporaneous to this whole matter on June 13th or June 14th which suggest that--which shows him swatching any blood drops at Rockingham; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And so when you testified today, this morning that it's your recollection that Dennis Fung collected items 4, 5 and 6, you're testifying based on memory; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Not based on any document, photograph or videotape that you have seen showing him actually doing that; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And that recollection that you now have, ma'am, is in part influenced by the meeting that you had with Dennis Fung after you testified on August 23rd; isn't that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: At the meeting when you testified--I'm sorry. At the meeting you had with Dennis Fung, Miss Mazzola, you said that Dennis Fung told you that it was his recollection that he collected items 4, 5 and 6, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: During the meeting that you had with Dennis Fung after August 23rd, didn't he tell you what his recollection was as to which items he collected at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: We were discussing the scene in general.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, during that discussion, did Dennis Fung tell you what his recollection was as to which blood drops he collected at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe he said--recalled his recollection.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, ma'am, the last time, did anything happen--did you--I'm sorry. Since you testified August 23rd until you had this meeting with Dennis Fung, did you speak with anyone else about who collected which items at Rockingham other than Dennis Fung?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: And did you review any photographs reflecting who collected which items at Rockingham between your testimony on August 23rd and the time you met with Dennis Fung?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was able to review some of the still photographs.

MR. NEUFELD: But the still photographs don't depict, as you said a moment ago, Dennis Fung collecting anything, correct, at Rockingham?

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, this is argumentative.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And the last time you were asked to articulate who collected what at Rockingham then was in sworn testimony that you gave in this courtroom on August 23rd, 1994; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And when you testified in this courtroom on August 23rd, 1994, you said that you personally collected every single one of those blood drops including the Bronco door and the drops going all the way up the driveway at Rockingham; isn't that correct?

MR. GOLDBERG: I think that misstates the testimony, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. NEUFELD: Isn't that correct, ma'am?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know what the testimony was exactly.

MR. NEUFELD: Did you hear me read the testimony to you just five minutes ago, ma'am?

MR. GOLDBERG: Argumentative.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, when you testified on August 23rd, were you asked this question, did you give this answer?

MR. NEUFELD: 698, line 22.

MR. NEUFELD: "Question: Okay."

MR. GOLDBERG: May I have a second?

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: This has been asked and answered, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled. Proceed.

MR. NEUFELD: "Question: And what items of evidence did you collect, you personally collect at Rockingham during that first visit? "Answer: A red stain on the door of the Bronco and the red stains leading up the driveway to the front of the house." Were you asked that question, did you give that answer?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And you knew, ma'am, when I asked you at that time, when I asked you what you personally collected, you took that to mean those stains that you personally with your own hands swatched, is that right, as opposed to someone else doing it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: In fact, ma'am, at that meeting with Dennis Fung--by the way, do you remember when that meeting with Dennis Fung was had?

MS. MAZZOLA: I have no idea.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, was it a week after you testified? Was it a day after?

MS. MAZZOLA: I do not recall.

MR. NEUFELD: Was it the same month?

MS. MAZZOLA: I do not--excuse me. I do not recall.

MR. NEUFELD: Was it September?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know.

MR. NEUFELD: Was it October?

THE COURT: All right. We're cumulative at this point.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, you made entries on that--that--that blank sheet during that meeting with Dennis Fung, didn't you?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And the place where you made entries, ma'am, was in the column that said which item was collected by whom, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And have you looked at those notes with those entries that you made at your meeting with Dennis Fung any time before you took the witness stand today to help you refresh your recollection?

MS. MAZZOLA: By looking at that column, no.

MR. NEUFELD: Did you ever look at that column at any time prior to your testifying today to help you refresh your recollection? Didn't look at it at all?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, other than your meeting with Dennis Fung and your meetings with Michele Kestler, your supervisor, to discuss your involvement in this case, since August 23rd, have you had any meetings with representatives of the District Attorney's office?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And when was the first?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall when the first one was.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, would it be fair to say there have been many since August 23rd?

MS. MAZZOLA: There have been a few, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: A few? How many have there been, ma'am?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know the exact number. It's not been every day.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, how many times have you met with the District Attorney's office during the last two weeks?

MS. MAZZOLA: Maybe five or six.

MR. NEUFELD: And during the month of April in total, how many times have you met with the District Attorney's office?

MS. MAZZOLA: I have no idea.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, would it be perhaps another five or six times?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, I just want you to approximate, ma'am, as best you can. Might it be an additional three or four?

MS. MAZZOLA: Could be an additional two to four. I honestly don't know.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, during the month of March, did you have any meetings with any of the District Attorneys?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember.

MR. NEUFELD: You don't remember whether you met with them or not during the entire month?

MS. MAZZOLA: I had other work to do. I don't remember when I met with them exactly.

MR. NEUFELD: Did you meet with them at all during the month of February?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall.

MR. NEUFELD: When you say you don't recall, are you saying that you may have met with them; you just have no recollection of the encounter?

MS. MAZZOLA: I may have met with them. I don't recall.

MR. NEUFELD: What about in January?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall.

MR. NEUFELD: Does the same hold true for December?

MS. MAZZOLA: (no audible response.)

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry. You have to answer verbally.

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, yes. Yes, it does.

MR. NEUFELD: And November?

THE COURT: All right. We're getting cumulative at this point again.

MR. NEUFELD: So would it be fair to say that you may have met with the District Attorney's office during the months of November, December, January and February; but at this point in time, you just can't recall if you did and if you did, how often?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: However, you know for sure that you met with them many times during the month of April; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: I met with them some times in April, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, you said, ma'am, just a moment ago that you met with them about five or six times during the last couple of weeks, right?

MS. MAZZOLA: Some of that was on the phone, some of it was all for five minutes.

MR. NEUFELD: And you said that you met with them anywheres from two to four times during the first part of April as well; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: It's possible, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: So that could be as many as 10 times just in the month of April alone; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. Possible.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, you mentioned that some of the sessions may have been on the telephone. How long was the longest session at the District Attorney's office?

MS. MAZZOLA: I have no idea.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, did you ever spend an entire day here looking at videotapes and talking to the District Attorneys about your involvement in this case?

MS. MAZZOLA: The major part of a day.

MR. NEUFELD: Which would be perhaps eight to 10 hours?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. Not that long. Probably five to six.

MR. NEUFELD: Five to six hours. And how many sessions did you have of that nature?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall. Not many.

MR. NEUFELD: Perhaps three or four?

MS. MAZZOLA: Probably just closer to three. Two or three.

MR. NEUFELD: Two or three sessions which lasted about five hours?

MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately--

MR. NEUFELD: And if those sessions, ma'am, which lasted five hours--

THE COURT: Wait, wait. Mr. Neufeld, let her finish the answer.

MR. NEUFELD: Sorry, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Go ahead.

MS. MAZZOLA: Go ahead. I can't remember what you asked.

MR. NEUFELD: And at those sessions which lasted approximately five hours, those two or three sessions, how many different Prosecutors were with you?

MS. MAZZOLA: It wasn't a solid four or five hours. It was on and off while sometimes watching videos. I don't recall who was with me or how many.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Well, I take it if you don't recall how many people were with you, it was at least more than one Prosecutor there with you?

MS. MAZZOLA: Sometimes one, sometimes more than one.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, when there was sometimes more than one, was there as many as three or four?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: So you're saying the most that you ever had at any of these five-hour sessions was two Prosecutors?

MS. MAZZOLA: On and off.

MR. NEUFELD: Was Mr. Goldberg one of those two Prosecutors?

MS. MAZZOLA: Sometimes, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And sometimes were other Prosecutors there instead of Mr. Goldberg?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And who were the other Prosecutors who you met with?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know their names.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, were they people who are in this room?

MS. MAZZOLA: I recognize one.

MR. NEUFELD: And who was that, ma'am?

MS. MAZZOLA: The young lady sitting behind the audio visual table.

THE COURT: Indicating Diane Martinez.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Were any of the other District Attorneys who you see in this room present during any of those sessions?

MS. MAZZOLA: They might have walked in and then stayed a minute or so and walked out.

MR. NEUFELD: But you don't have any recollection of any of those assistant Deputy District Attorneys prepping you for your testimony?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Did they at any time--did any of these District Attorneys at any time take you into a courtroom?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, ma'am, other than the notes that you described before that were made on June 13th and June 14th that you've reviewed in connection with this case, have you made entries onto any other notes at all or those notes to help you testify today?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. No.

MR. NEUFELD: Are there any notes that you've made that are not your original notes?

MS. MAZZOLA: Other than try to condense some of the information so it would be easier to find, no.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, you said you did make notes during your meeting with Dennis Fung, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That was just what we had discussed on the collection by.

MR. NEUFELD: And those notes were made both on the Rockingham evidence collection sheets and the Bundy evidence collection sheets?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, I would like permission to make a photocopy of those, if I may.

THE COURT: Certainly. Do you have those with you?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: All right. Miss Mazzola, why don't you hand those to me. There are two groups?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

(Brief pause.)

MR. NEUFELD: I'll come back to it.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, during any of these sessions--by the way, when was the most recent session that you had with the District Attorneys?

MS. MAZZOLA: This morning.

MR. NEUFELD: And did you meet with them yesterday as well?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. Actually, I didn't.

MR. NEUFELD: This morning?

MS. MAZZOLA: This morning.

MR. NEUFELD: And before this morning, when was the last session?

MS. MAZZOLA: Monday.

MR. NEUFELD: And during any of the sessions--

MS. MAZZOLA: Excuse me. Tuesday.

MR. NEUFELD: And during any of the sessions that you had with the District Attorneys, did they review with you any of the issues that came up during Mr. Fung's testimony?

MR. GOLDBERG: It's overbroad, your Honor. Calls for speculation.

THE COURT: Sustained. It's vague.

MR. NEUFELD: During those meetings with the District Attorney's office, did either Mr. Goldberg or anybody else in that office tell you that there were certain problems with Mr. Fung's testimony?

MR. GOLDBERG: It's vague as to problems.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: Never mentioned that at all to you?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, ma'am, would you agree that crime scene processing is a specialized discipline requiring classroom and on-the-job training in order to be proficient?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree, ma'am, that one of the things you must learn is to recognize and identify potential evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And it's also necessary to properly document each item?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: To be able to photograph it accurately and to measure it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And it's essential to properly collect and properly package the evidence; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And would you also agree, ma'am, that it's imperative that you establish and maintain the chain of custody on each item?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And that's critically important, is it not, in order to demonstrate that any particular item of evidence all along as it passes from person to person or from laboratory to laboratory remains the same item?

MR. GOLDBERG: Vague as to critically important.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And it's also critical, ma'am, is it not to insure that the integrity of each particular item has not been compromised?

MR. GOLDBERG: Vague as to critically comprised.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, would you agree--

THE COURT: It's combination of terms "Critical" and "Integrity." Why don't you define--have her define those terms.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, would you agree, ma'am, that part of maintaining that chain of custody and getting it right is to insure that the item hasn't been tampered with?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree, ma'am, that another aspect of that maintaining the chain of custody is to insure that the item hasn't been contaminated?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is--

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, irrelevant--

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. GOLDBERG: --what her understanding is.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, on direct examination, you were giving us some background as to your previous employment; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: I think you mentioned that your first job out of college was with the Kern County D.A.'s office?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: You said you worked as a criminalist there, right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: But that was only a temp job, wasn't it?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was a temporary position as a criminalist, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Right. And in fact, you were laid off in that position, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And your next job after that temp position with the Kern County D.A.'s office was in the private sector. You were working with a private laboratory, right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

MR. NEUFELD: You weren't working as a criminalist then, were you?

MS. MAZZOLA: Toxicologist.

MR. NEUFELD: But you weren't working for a law enforcement agency--

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: --processing crime scenes or doing criminalist work?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not processing crime scenes, no.

MR. NEUFELD: And you weren't working for any law enforcement agency, correct, in that job?

MS. MAZZOLA: The laboratory I worked with contracted work from various law enforcement agencies in the area.

MR. NEUFELD: But you were not going out and actually involved in the collection of any evidence when you had that job?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I wasn't.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, you said you joined the LAPD in January of 1994?

THE COURT: Excuse me. Mr. Neufeld, let me--forgive me for interrupting you. Let me see counsel without the reporter. Let me see Mr. Cochran, Mr. Darden, Miss Clark and Mr. Douglas.

(A conference was held at the bench, not reported.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel. Mr. Neufeld, you were about to get into LAPD employment.

MR. NEUFELD: Oh, resume?

THE COURT: Please. Thank you. My apologies for interrupting. Mr. Neufeld.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

MR. NEUFELD: Notwithstanding the fact, ma'am, that when you joined the LAPD in January of 1994 as a criminalist I, as of June 13th, 1994, you were still a trainee, weren't you?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was a criminalist i.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, but weren't you also still a trainee at that point?

MR. GOLDBERG: Vague as to the term trainee.

THE COURT: Overruled. You can answer the question.

MS. MAZZOLA: I was employed as a criminalist i.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, let me--what date did you--was your first day of work, ma'am?

MS. MAZZOLA: January 24th.

MR. NEUFELD: January 24th? On January 23rd, you were not a criminalist I; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And on January 23rd, you had no prior experience doing crime scene collection; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: On January 24th, you become a criminalist I; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

MR. NEUFELD: As of January 24th though, you still had no experience doing any crime scene collection; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: So with respect to crime scene collection, even though you are a criminalist I as of January 24th, 1994, weren't you in training in crime scene collection as late as June 13th, 1994?

MS. MAZZOLA: It depends on what--how you use the word "Training."

MR. NEUFELD: Well, would you consider yourself a trainee as of June 13th, 1994?

MR. GOLDBERG: Vague as to training in what.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: In--a trainee in the technical aspects, no. A trainee in the discretionary viewing of the crime scene, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Page 689.

MR. GOLDBERG: I'll object to this, your Honor. It's not inconsistent. I would ask to approach.

THE COURT: All right. Let me see the transcript, please. Miss Robertson, I need the transcript.

(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)

THE COURT: Why don't you show it to me.

MR. NEUFELD: Page 689 beginning with line--I am sorry. Beginning with line 7. "Question by Mr. Neufeld: And when did you commence your training in crime scene collection? "Answer: Exact day, I'm not sure. "Question: Approximate date. "Answer: Approximately a month after I began working in the lab. "Question: Maybe some time around the beginning of March 1994? "Answer: Sometime, February I believe. "And what did that training entail? "Answer: I went out to crime scenes with more experienced criminalists and assisted them and also learned the different techniques that they employ. "And I take it currently as of right now today, you are still a trainee in crime scene collection; is that correct? "I would go out as a Criminalist III to a crime scene. So yes, I guess you could classify me as a crime scene trainee."

MR. GOLDBERG: It's not inconsistent. She's saying that she as a trainee in the mental process.

THE COURT: I agree with you that is not directly inconsistent. Ask her another question, set that up. But you're sort of delaying the inevitable. The question was not appropriately phrased.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay.

THE COURT: But we'll get to that.

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: Thank you, counsel. Proceed. Mr. Neufeld.

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, does the LAPD SID Bureau have a probationary period for their employees?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, they do.

MR. NEUFELD: Excuse me?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, they do.

MR. NEUFELD: How long does it last?

MS. MAZZOLA: Probation is six months.

MR. NEUFELD: And on June 13th, were you still on probation?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: So you were a probationary employee as of the time that you did the collection in this case; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: It wouldn't be fair to say, ma'am, that as of June 13th, 1994, that one would classify you as a crime scene trainee?

MS. MAZZOLA: In crime scene techniques, no. In discretionary area, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, at the hearing on August 23rd, were you asked these questions and did you give these answers?

MR. GOLDBERG: Same objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. NEUFELD: "Question: And when did you commence your training in crime scene collection? "Answer: Exact date, I'm not sure. "Question: Well, the approximate date. "Answer: Approximately a month after I began working at the lab. "Question: That would be sometime around the beginning of March 1994? "Answer: Sometime February I believe. "Question: And what did that training entail? "Answer: I went out to the crime scenes with more experienced criminalists and assisted them and also learned the different techniques that they employ. "Question: And I take it currently, as of right now, today, you are still a trainee in crime scene collection; is that correct? "Answer: I would go out with the Criminalist III to a crime scene. So, yes, I guess you would classify me as a crime scene trainee. "Question: And how long will that status continue before you are no longer a trainee? "Answer: I believe it is for one year." Were you asked those questions and did you give those answers on August 23rd at that hearing?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And when you gave that testimony on August 23rd, you were testifying truthfully; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: You were testifying accurately; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: To my best recollection.

MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree that prior to your joining the LAPD, you had absolutely no prior experience with crime scene processing? Is that right?

MR. GOLDBERG: Well, vague as to direct or--

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Hmm?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And when you joined the LAPD in January of 1994, you were given a full-time assignment to a particular unit; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And it is the purpose of LAPD to assign you to a particular unit so you can develop your skills in that area; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: So we can learn their methods, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And would it be fair to say that the SID criminalists have many different units and many different disciplines?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And one of these disciplines would be--I think you referred to yours as toxicology; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

MR. NEUFELD: And another subspecialty would be serology; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

MR. NEUFELD: Questioned documents might be a third?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is not staffed by criminalists.

MR. NEUFELD: How about trace evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. Trace evidence.

MR. NEUFELD: All right. And there's another unit which is called crime scene processing; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, you weren't assigned to crime scene processing when you joined the LAPD in January of 1994; isn't that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe--was that the field unit you're talking about?

MR. NEUFELD: That's what I'm talking about.

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I was not assigned to the field unit.

MR. NEUFELD: You were assigned to toxicology?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: But there are other people at SID who were assigned full-time to processing crime scenes; isn't that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: They take their turns on rotation.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, other than the people who take their turns on rotation, isn't it true that there are at least two people who are full-time processing crime scenes as part of the field unit?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall that. I'm not positive that's true or not.

MR. NEUFELD: You don't know one way or the other?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, you also mentioned, ma'am, that you took--that you're a member of the California Association of Criminalists?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And have you ever taken any courses from the California criminalistics institute?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: But the courses you took were not in crime scene processing, were they?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: You haven't taken any courses in crime scene processing outside the LAPD, have you?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not yet, no.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, you mentioned also on direct examination that you attended this thing called the mini academy; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And that's offered by Los Angeles Police Department?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right. Sid.

MR. NEUFELD: When you joined.

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: In January 1994. Now, it's not really an academy in the formal sense of the word, is it, ma'am?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is training, lectures and hands-on training.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, you're familiar with the Los Angeles Police Department Police Academy?

MS. MAZZOLA: A little bit familiar with it, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, they have their own building, don't they?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. You don't have any separate building for your instruction, do you?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. No.

MR. NEUFELD: In fact, what you are talking about, this mini academy, is really employees of the SID getting together once a week to hear lectures, isn't that right, on various topics?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, doesn't it meet every Thursday or something like that?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is more of a classroom type situation.

MR. NEUFELD: And how often does it meet?

MS. MAZZOLA: Once a week.

MR. NEUFELD: And there's no textbook assigned to read; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And there are no books that are actually distributed to the people who attend this mini academy; isn't that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: In fact, this mini academy is given in the same room that houses your kitchen, your cafeteria; isn't that right?

MR. GOLDBERG: It's irrelevant.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. NEUFELD: Isn't that it?

MS. MAZZOLA: Sometimes it is.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, have you heard of the California Association of Criminalists, certificate of professional competency?

MS. MAZZOLA: I have not heard that, no.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, have you heard of the American board of criminalists, certificate of professional competency?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so, no.

MR. NEUFELD: Have you been awarded certificate of professional competency as a criminalist by any entity in America?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, you said that on the morning of June 13th, you received a phone call because you were the next in rotation; is that right, Miss Mazzola?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was on call, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And whenever there was a major crime scene such as this one, is it SID's goal to have two criminalists work the scene? Is that their goal?

MS. MAZZOLA: I am not sure what their goal is. All I know is, I was on call and I was assigned with a Crim III.

MR. NEUFELD: And you said that the rotation picks a different criminalist each week?

MS. MAZZOLA: You're on call for either a week or the weekend.

MR. NEUFELD: And you said that other than yourself, you're not sure whether there are two full-time criminalists who are assigned to the field unit to handle crime scene processing?

MS. MAZZOLA: During the day is when the field units takes the calls. The criminalists on rotation are assigned to cover the nights and the weekends.

MR. NEUFELD: All right. But during the day, even back on June--in June of 1994, there was a special unit and it was staffed by two full-time criminalists, correct, to handle crime scene processing?

MR. GOLDBERG: This has been asked and answered.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, ma'am, are you aware that the members of the crime scene unit, full-time members of the crime scene unit who handle the calls on weekdays are all people who have a lot more experience than you have?

MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes a fact not in evidence.

MR. NEUFELD: Subject to connection, your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled. Do you know that?

MS. MAZZOLA: They do have more experience, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And are you aware that SID often sends out two experienced criminalists to major homicide crime scenes?

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, it is irrelevant, calls for speculation.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. NEUFELD: The morning of June 13th, 1994, who telephoned you at home?

MS. MAZZOLA: Detective--Detective Headquarters Division.

MR. NEUFELD: And who was the person who actually called you?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember his name exactly. He was from DHD.

MR. NEUFELD: And what did that person tell you?

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, it's irrelevant, calls for hearsay.

THE COURT: It's to explain subsequent conduct I take it?

MR. NEUFELD: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. What were you told?

MS. MAZZOLA: He said that we had a scene, it was a 187 and he gave me the address.

MR. NEUFELD: What does 187 stand for?

MS. MAZZOLA: Homicide.

MR. NEUFELD: And did he tell you it was a double homicide?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And on that phone call, did he mention that Mr. Simpson was a possible suspect?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. No names were given.

MR. NEUFELD: No names at all?

MS. MAZZOLA: No names.

MR. NEUFELD: Did he say anything at all other than it was a crime scene involving a double homicide?

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, at this point, it's irrelevant.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, it has to do with the next action she's going to take.

THE COURT: Sustained. Proceed.

MR. NEUFELD: Was any form filled out in the truck on the way to the--to Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: By the way, before you got to Rockingham, in fact, when you got to SID, did you learn any more information about this crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: All you knew at that point was, it was a crime scene involving a double homicide, nothing more?

MS. MAZZOLA: Nothing more.

MR. NEUFELD: And what document did you fill out in the truck on the way to Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Start filling out the front of the field notes.

MR. NEUFELD: Show you what's been previously marked as Defense exhibit number 1107 and ask you--well, actually it's easier on the screen. Is that the document you filled out?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And on that document, that's where you said that under Officer in Charge, you put in your name; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And of course, you did this before you arrived at Rockingham, right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. NEUFELD: But you did it after you had conversations with Mr. Fung; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: So just so I understand it, before you arrived at Rockingham, it was your understanding that you were going to be the Officer in Charge at a double homicide; is that correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: My name is under Officer in Charge because I was the criminalist on call at the time.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, didn't you say that a decision was made after you got to Rockingham that you would no longer be the Officer in Charge? Is that correct? Didn't you testify to that on direct examination?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, if a decision was made after you got to Rockingham that you would no longer be the Officer in Charge, then isn't it correct that before you got to Rockingham, you were considered the Officer in Charge? Isn't that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not really, no.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, "OIC" stands for Officer in Charge, right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Doesn't say next on rotation, does it?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Doesn't say next on call, does it?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: Says who is the Officer in Charge, and then there's another line that says the name of the assistant.

MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And that is who is going to assist the Officer in Charge?

MS. MAZZOLA: Uh-huh. Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: You didn't like cross out "OIC" when you were in the van and write in "Not really" or something like that before you put in your name?

MR. GOLDBERG: This is argumentative.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, when you wrote in your name next to "OIC", you knew that it meant Officer in Charge, correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And you were identifying yourself as the Officer in Charge on a double homicide; is that correct?

MR. GOLDBERG: This is argumentative.

THE COURT: Sustained. Counsel let's move on.

MR. NEUFELD: When you arrived at Rockingham, the first thing that happened is that the detectives briefed you on this situation?

MS. MAZZOLA: They briefed Mr. Fung.

MR. NEUFELD: Were you present for that briefing?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was present, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, you arrived in your truck, you got out, and where was the first place that you went to?

MS. MAZZOLA: Into the front courtyard area.

MR. NEUFELD: With Mr. Fung, right?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: And that's where you encountered the detectives?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: When you say the front courtyard area, you mean immediately in front of Mr. Simpson's front door?

MS. MAZZOLA: It's the driveway area, in that vicinity.

MR. NEUFELD: And approximately--well, the driveway area in front of his front door though?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: In the vicinity of where you collected item no. 7?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. NEUFELD: And that's where the discussion was held with the detectives?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And approximately how long did that discussion last?

MS. MAZZOLA: I have no idea.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, at this point in time, you had only filled out one form, correct, the cover sheet of the crime scene investigation; isn't that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And now, during these several minutes, you've having a discussion or you're listening to a discussion between Dennis Fung and the detectives at the scene; is that right?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

MR. NEUFELD: And how many detectives are there approximately?

MS. MAZZOLA: I honestly can't recall how many.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, was it just one detective or were there more than one?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was more than one.

MR. NEUFELD: Was it more than two?

MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.

MR. NEUFELD: And at that point, those detectives gave you an idea of what items they wanted you to collect in that discussion during those five minutes?

MS. MAZZOLA: They told Mr. Fung what they were interested in and he came back and told me.

MR. NEUFELD: You said they told Mr. Fung and then he came back and told you. You didn't actually get into this little discussion that Fung was having with the detectives?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. NEUFELD: You didn't hear it?

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I make a motion to strike that part of the witness' testimony. No personal knowledge.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: Excuse me. Would you please repeat the question?

MR. NEUFELD: Is the reason that you did not participate in that initial discussion with detectives is because you and he already made a decision that he would in fact be the Officer in Charge now instead of you?

MS. MAZZOLA: That and he seemed to be able to communicate more with the detectives. I was standing off in the background sort of listening, but he was the one that was doing the talking with the detectives.

MR. NEUFELD: He was more assertive with the detectives than you were?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: And you said in addition to that, at the beginning of this discussion, he informed you of his decision that he would now be the Officer in Charge instead of you?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: That happened right at the very beginning of that discussion?

MS. MAZZOLA: More or less, yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And how long did you say that discussion lasted with the other detectives?

MS. MAZZOLA: I have no idea.

MR. NEUFELD: Well, would it be more than a half hour or less than a half hour?

MS. MAZZOLA: Less than a half hour, but beyond that, I have no idea.

MR. NEUFELD: Now, after this discussion and after Dennis Fung told you that he was going to be the Officer in Charge, you then went over and looked at certain items of evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And which was the first item that you then looked at?

MS. MAZZOLA: The Bronco.

MR. NEUFELD: And is that the first time you were told about the Bronco?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And is it at that moment that you then filled out the crime scene investigation sheet for the Bronco?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

(Brief pause.)

MR. COCHRAN: It's 4:30.

MR. NEUFELD: I thought it was item 430. They were telling me it's 4:30 P.M.

THE COURT: That's why I have clocks all over the courtroom. All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take our recess for the afternoon. Please remember all of my admonitions to you; do not discuss this case amongst yourselves, don't form any opinions about the case, do not conduct any deliberations until the matter has been submitted to you, do not allow anybody to communicate with you with regard to the case. However, I'm going to ask you to step back in the jury room briefly before we recess as far as the jury is concerned. And, Miss Mazzola, you may step down. You are ordered to return tomorrow morning 9 o'clock. Don't discuss your testimony with anybody except for the lawyers. Thank you very much.

(At 4:30 P.M., an adjournment was taken until, Friday, April 21, 1995, 9:00 A.M.)

Superior Court of the State of California for the County of Los Angeles

Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge

The People of the State of California, )

Plaintiff, )

) Vs. ) No. Ba097211 )

Orenthal James Simpson, )

Defendant. )

Reporter's transcript of proceedings Thursday, April 20, 1995

Volume 130 pages 23666 through 23904, inclusive

(Pages 23816 through 23830, inclusive, sealed)

(Pages 23905 through 23907, inclusive, sealed)

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Janet M. Moxham, CSR #4588 Christine M. Olson, CSR #2378 official reporters

APPEARANCES:

FOR THE PEOPLE: Gil Garcetti, District Attorney by: Marcia R. Clark, William W. Hodgman, Christopher A. Darden, Cheri A. Lewis, Rockne P. Harmon, George W. Clarke, Scott M. Gordon Lydia C. Bodin, Hank M. Goldberg, Alan Yochelson and Darrell S. Mavis, Brian R. Kelberg, and Kenneth E. Lynch, Deputies 18-000 Criminal Courts Building 210 West Temple Street Los Angeles, California 90012

FOR THE DEFENDANT: Robert L. Shapiro, Esquire Sara L. Caplan, Esquire 2121 Avenue of the Stars 19th floor Los Angeles, California 90067 Johnnie L. Cochran, Jr., Esquire by: Carl E. Douglas, Esquire Shawn Snider Chapman, Esquire 4929 Wilshire Boulevard Suite 1010 Los Angeles, California 90010 Gerald F. Uelmen, Esquire Robert Kardashian, Esquire Alan Dershowitz, Esquire F. Lee Bailey, Esquire Barry Scheck, Esquire Peter Neufeld, Esquire Robert D. Blasier, Esquire William C. Thompson, Esquire also present: Jana Winograde, Esquire Steven M. Perry, Esquire

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I N D E X

Index for volume 130 pages 23666 - 23904

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Day date session page vol.

Thursday April 20, 1995 A.M. 23666 130 P.M. 23816 130

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LEGEND: Ms. Clark-mc Mr. Hodgman-h Mr. Darden d Mr. Kahn-k Mr. Goldberg-gb Mr. Gordon-g Mr. Shapiro-s Mr. Cochran-c Mr. Douglas-cd Mr. Bailey-b Mr. Uelmen-u Mr. Scheck-bs Mr. Neufeld-n

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Chronological Index of witnesses

People's witnesses direct cross redirect recross vol.

Mazzola, Andrea 130 23669gb (Resumed) 23789gb 23833n

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Alphabetical Index of witnesses

Witnesses direct cross redirect recross vol.

Mazzola, Andrea 130 23669gb (Resumed) 23789gb 23833n

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EXHIBITS

For in exhibit identification evidence page vol. Page vol.

(None this volume)